Found Family with Dylan March + The Angry Therapist, John Kim

There's the family you're born into, and if you're lucky, the family you choose. This week, Alex Aiono is joined by a member of his found family, Dylan March. They're also joined by John Kim, AKA The Angry Therapist, to unpack all the things you learn from your first family and how your chosen family can help you become the person you were always meant to be.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Alex, and I have an incredible birth
family and also an incredible found family. Nor will be
alright forever. Nor will be alright alright. So I think

(00:27):
it goes without saying. I think I say it all
of the time. I brag about it. Really at this point,
I have the greatest family, like in the whole world.
I mean, they're gonna be on my podcast. We're gonna
talk about all of that, even in a deeper sense
than you know. But if you know me at all,
I am no pun intended a family guy. Like it
is who I am. I was raised with the coolest mom,

(00:48):
the best dad, and my absolute superhero and three sisters
who are like equal parts hype women and security guards.
Like it's a it's a nice balance, and they're incredible,
And up until I moved to New York at eighteen
years old, they were the only people I really kind
of considered family. Um. And when I turned eighteen and

(01:09):
I moved to New York, I think I went through
what every eighteen year old goes through, which is like,
who am I? What do I like? Now I'm an adult,
I get to do what I want, I get to
act how I want. Everything that I've been told I
can't do. I want to do, and I wanted to
try so many new things. I was working at All Saints,
and then afterwards I remember going to like a cantina
where they never carded people because I was eighteen years old,

(01:31):
and like all of those things that happened while I
was in New York, and there was a period of
time I didn't see my parents for like four or
five months, which I know doesn't sound like a lot.
Actually now I'm saying it like doesn't sound like a
lot of time at all, but for me, that's probably
equivalent to like a decade. Even now, living in a
completely different state, I see my parents at least once
a month, and then when they all when we all

(01:51):
lived in the same state, it would be insane if
I didn't see them four or five times a week.
So that all being said, being away from them for
that long time and being somebody who always needs, not
necessarily the presence of other people, but other energy. I
always feed off of other people's energy, and if I
don't have it, then I don't really feel quite like myself.

(02:12):
A lot of my friends that I had that lived
in New York, that I had known, you know, my
management and my business management and even just close friends
I had in New York became this new kind of
version of family that I would have you know, dinners with,
and I would if they had kids, I would get
close with their kids. If they lived with their parents,
I would get close with their parents. If they had grandparents,
I would go up there, like I remember going to

(02:34):
I want to shout out Robin Mann, who was probably
my first version of like found family. When I was eighteen,
I lived with her. She had two kids that were
about my age, two sons. I remember going to pass
over at her mom's house and like being treated like
just like another son and having that like found family.
Ron Starr, who has been on our show before, talking
about finances, I remember sleeping on his couch and when

(02:56):
I didn't have money, he would like give me extra
money to make or I could eat and I could
pay for recording equipment. And seeing that and having them
as such a close family, And I want to preface
this whole episode that neither of the two are better
or worse, or or more important or less important. I
would never trade anything in the world for my birth

(03:17):
family at all, Like I think I still have the
greatest family ever, but I think it's healthy as a
person to experience life as you know, on your own,
and so like I think about things like that where
it's like, I think it's important to branch out. And
I'm so excited about this episode because we have two
amazing guests, one of them being a piece of my

(03:37):
found family. So it really just got me thinking how
important is found family and where do you find family? No,
we are what is up? Everybody? Welcome back to Let's
get into it. This is my podcast where we talk
about really everything. I'm so excited about this episode. This

(03:57):
is um an episode that we actually was one of
the first episodes we ever thought about doing, because it's
something that's very important to me, like you heard in
my story earlier, which is found family or chosen family
versus your birth family or your assigned family. UM. So,
I have some awesome guests to talk about this exact topic. First,
I have a therapist also known as the Angry Therapist, author,

(04:19):
host of the podcast also called the Angry Therapist, and
a brand new dad which we'll talk about later. Side note.
He is the partner of one of our previous guests.
Vanessa Bennett, who joined us for the Mindfulness episode. Uh,
they are partners, they're both therapists. I have a lot
of questions about that. John Kim, how are you man?
I'm will thank you so much for having me. I'm
excited to be here. It's a it's a fun topic

(04:41):
and I'm not gonna lie. John, you have some you
have some real competition with this guest, because this next
guest is also my best friend in the whole world.
I have known him for now six years. Um. We
have traveled the world together. He's an amazing photographer. He's
one of my my closest friends and is now as
of like a month ago, my roommate Dylan March. What's up?

(05:02):
What's up, buddy? I didn't know. I didn't know that.
I didn't know the intro, the way that we're set up.
If you if you're not visually seeing this is me
and Dylan are sitting in the same room. We have
Catherine the producer in her house, and we have John
in his house. So it's gonna be very very interesting. First,
Dylan and I are gonna be talking about a topic
that Katherine named, and I think it's so funny. Because
it's the one time that it's true a brother from

(05:24):
another mother. Then we're gonna take a break, John and
I are going to talk about finding your family. And
then lastly we're gonna have a big round table talking
about your first family, your birth family, uh, and how
that compares and contrasts to your found family. But before
we get into those topics, I have a question that
I ask every single one of my guests, including myself,
and that question is what have you been doing this

(05:45):
week to improve your life? Um? I'll go first, uh
and Dylan knows this. I am back on the fitness
train in full. Like I think with the second shutdown
of California that came in like July, I got to
a point where I was like, what's the point of
being in really good shape when nobody sees it? And
I'm and I'm eating only healthy foods and something that

(06:05):
I enjoy a lot, which is all different types of foods.
So I kind of let myself slip a little bit.
But now I'm fully back on the fitness train. I
started working with a personal trainer um via Zoom and
it's a it's awesome. So that's what I've been doing
this week to improve myself? Dylan, what do you have
for us um? Doing the fitness thing as well, But

(06:26):
as of last Friday, I left my nine to five job,
and I think I'm gonna be doing a bit more
photography and trying to lean into that a bit. So
it's a bit of a bigger change. But this week
I'm putting some effort into that solid, solid John, what
do you have for us um? I've been trying to
get off the hedonic treadmill. And what I mean by
that is I spent most of my life trying to

(06:48):
chase shiny things, tying happiness to once I get that thing,
whether that is, you know, a range rover or an empire,
doesn't matter what it is, that thing right, or maybe
it's a better body um. And so I'm trying to
break the habit of tying my worth to something that
is outside of self. That's a that's a practice, that's

(07:09):
a lifelong practice, but just been really trying to focus
on it this week. That seems like a challenge for
me to be doing next week. For next week's what
have I been doing to improve myself? Because I think
I could definitely use a little bit of that work solid. Well,
look it looks like we're having all we're all having
a great week. We're all having a great time. Everybody
a lot of time. Great week. Um, well, that's just
crack straight into it. Then John will be with you

(07:30):
in just a second. Dylan, it's time for us to
go one on one. I'll start off with a quote
that that Catherine found and sent to me that I
really really liked. It's from Gloria Steinham and she says,
your birth family is crucial in nurturing and raising you,
but your chosen family, your friends are really who you
grow up with and who allow you to work and
be yourself and support you in times of bad and good,

(07:52):
which is exactly why I wanted to have one of
my closest friends and somebody that I consider chosen slash
found family. Dylan, here is actually we want to go
back and start from the beginning of how our friendship
turned into like what it is today. Like you're one
of he's one of my closest friends, and oddly enough,
also your mom is one of my closest friends, which
is solid as well. Um, but if you know you

(08:13):
already know, if you listen to this podcast, you probably
already know Dylan because I do reference him a lot.
He is one of my not only one of my
closest friends, but one of my only friends, um, which
is fun. So let's go back to the beginning. I
actually met Dylan through his brother Hunter, who is dope
and hopefully comes on this podcast UM soon as well.
And Hunter was working at Awesomeness TV. This is circa

(08:36):
two fourteen, and long story short, I met Hunter because
I met with Awesomeness TV. I told everybody I would
perform a song for them, and Hunter had actually requested
me to sing a Sam Smith song. That's like the
very first time I spoke with Hunter and uh. And
then through the next few months, Hunter and I had
worked together on a couple of projects with Awesomeness TV,
including we somehow both got invited to try out a

(09:00):
cruise ship, like literally be the first people to ride
this cruise ship and we both got a plus one.
So I had brought my little sister and Hunter brought
his little brother who is Dylan. So uh, Dylan and
I met on a cruise ship. Super romantic and long
story short, I think just the whole cruise we all
just like vibe together. We all had like a good

(09:22):
energy with each other, and we all just kind of
got along super well, to the point where even after
the cruise, we just like hung out all the time.
I would come over and like make a video with Hunter,
and then after Hunter and I would work, he would
keep working and I would hang out with Dylan. Dylan,
I have a fun question to ask you, because I
feel like I've been telling a story. Why do you
think we gravitated towards each other as friends? UM, I

(09:44):
don't know. I think my family and probably a Hunter
and me more than my mom and Mickey who you
had lived with. Um, We've always been very attracted to
people with passion, so it doesn't really matter what it was.
I mean, at the time when we met, you had
been so passionate about music, and you were obviously so talented,
So you know, we see that and it's something that

(10:08):
is driving for us. But it's also I just think
it's rare to find people that are so passionate about things.
So we saw that with you, and it was something
that obviously we're so envious of because I think Hunter
and I have been very lucky or gifted where we've
always kind of been good at stuff, like we've always
been able to pick something up, but we're so musically

(10:28):
not there. So that's definitely like something we've always been
so envious of. So I think that was probably the
biggest draw that I never never even heard you say that,
which was very meaningful. Um, but no, I think for
me too, it's literally like, you know, coming from where.
And I've talked many times on this podcast about my
upbringing and having a lot more of a not politically

(10:50):
but like conservative upbringing even outside of politics, and and
meeting you and Hunter and having this mindset that that
I kind of adopted from you guys, which was just
more open mindedness around everything. Like I think that's my
favorite thing about you and Hunter in your whole family
is that directly to this point, you guys really helped

(11:13):
open my mind and really helped me search for other
meanings of things that I was a little confused about
or I didn't know fully, and you guys kind of
not only inspired me to think like that, but also
provided like a place that made me feel like, oh,
I can be I can be this person, or I
can try this person, or I can swear more, or
I can you know, smoke weed or whatever it is.

(11:34):
You guys were always super like Dylan does not support weed. Um.
That being said, Uh, you guys were always super open
and and cool about that. Um. You actually traveled through
Australia and lived in Australia for what was it, un
totally two years years, So you spent some time in
Australia and I ended up hanging out more with Hunter
around that time and it but I always stayed you know,

(11:55):
close to your family. But when you came back, you
actually went on tour with me, and that's when we
started shooting photography and video for me, and we actually
ended up working together, which got us you know, traveling
all around the world and going on multiple tours together.
And UM, I think that really strengthened our friendship and
made us you know, even closer. Um up until the

(12:16):
point now we are here at twenty nineteen, UM, when
I was living in my old old house, uh, and
the lease was ending. We both knew that we were
going to be leaving on tour in like two months
after that, and you had mentioned like, since we're going
to be leaving in two months instead of signing a
new lease for like a year, why don't you just
move in to my mom's house because Dylan grew up

(12:38):
here in Los Angeles and uh, and long story short,
we kind of set it all up and I moved in,
which started now like this new phase, which was the
first time that we sort of lived together, like we
lived together obviously, and then we went on tour, which
was sort of also living together. Uh. And then when
we came back, I went and left for um for

(13:00):
Finding a Han at the movie that I filmed in
Thailand for like two months. When you were filming the movie,
we had always intended on moving into a new place together.
So when Alex came in, he came in for the
tour and then he booked the movie, so he was
gonna be another away for another three months. And in
that time I had moved in with my brother. So
Alex came back from his movie and just moved back

(13:22):
into my mom's house by himself. And that's kind of
how that whole stronger relationship with my family started, right
right right, because then you left, I came back, and
this was where it got like, this is where it
was really meaningful, but it was almost like funny because
I remember when Dylan called me and I was filming
the movie and he was like, yo, UM, I have
bad news for you. I'm moving out. And I was like,

(13:43):
all right, cool, Like I'll move out. I'll find a
spot when I get back, because in my mind I
was like, you're leaving your mom's house, like I should
also leave, like I shouldn't stay. And then I came
back and I talked to his mom Sandy shout out,
Sandy shoutow Mickey, and I talked to his mom and
I was like, hey, I'm gonna start looking for play says,
and Sandy was the one who's like, hey, you don't
have to if you don't want to, like we like
having you. And then it was from that was probably

(14:06):
November all the way up until about a month ago
in October. I lived there without Dylan, so I'd still
see Dylan pretty pretty often, UM, but I was more
so hanging out with Sandy and Mickey, who are Dylan's
mom and Dylan's stepdad. And that's when it really I
think switched from two really really close friends to found family.

(14:28):
Is where we are now, and so that's kind of
the story, and that's where I wanted to start with. UM.
But now I'm sitting here and I kind of want
to recollect with you. Del What do you think is
like the big differentiator between like just a friend or
a really good friend, like a best friend, versus somebody
who you're like, you're like my family. Um, I'm not
too sure because I have like best friends I've grown

(14:50):
up with my whole life. But outside of you and
now our other roommates, Sam, like, I don't consider anyone
family like you know my other friends and I love them,
and I've been friends with him for fifteen years. But like,
if I go, you know, years without talking to him,
I'm fine where I don't really have that with you guys.
But I don't know. It is that kind of feeling
that I know you'll always be there for me. I
know Sam will always be there for me. It's the

(15:12):
same for you. And I know my family will always
be there for you and years for me. So I
think that's a big factor. I think it is that trust,
that kind of vulnerability that we can have with each other,
where maybe we don't feel that way with our other
friends despite how close we feel with them. I think
it's also like just a week ago, I walked out
and I was wearing this outfit because I really wanted
to wear these shoes, and Dylan was like making breakfast

(15:34):
and he was just like, hey, I gotta be honest
with you. I don't like your outfit. And it made
me really like it's like I think things like that,
Like it's not only a vulnerability that you kind to
be fair. He was going to meet a modeling agency. Yeah, granted,
I was going to get sets of style Dylan. That's
the other thing Dylan I had, Like I absolutely bite
Dylan style. Every time he finds a new brand, I

(15:56):
go and I buy all of it. It's like it's
it's it's bad. But I think another thing that makes
that found family situation easy is I think it's also
natural that you can you can also get into that
more serious moment. Like you said, like the vulnerability, but
it's also a trust that if you say, like, hey,
I don't your outfits not the best. I think it's
just like it comes from a place to love. It

(16:17):
reminds me of my my family when my family would
be like, hey, don't do that, you shouldn't wear that outfit,
or it's super important and special to me. And that's
what made you guys like super closest family to me,
What was your I have a funny question to ask,
and I don't know if it's funny. I have an
interesting question to ask you as I got as you left,
What were your like initial thoughts on like, you know,
I think I called them now very close friends of mine.

(16:40):
I think it was always a good thing. I mean,
I know for you that you can always seem like
someone who needed a family around, and I think your
family all left at the time. And I know, saying
from my mom, she very much had this empty nest
syndrome living in the big house. And you know, Hunter
and I weren't that far away, but we probably weren't
the you know, first call come over initially. So I

(17:02):
think it was like this perfect thing that fell into
the place for both of you. I know my mom
is you know, you're more her tribe than I think
I even am. Like she likes to have those big,
deep conversations and she wants to talk about the universe,
and you know, Hunter and I are like, oh my god,
here she goes again, like enough, like we're done. And
you're on the opposite end of the spectrum where you're like, yeah,

(17:23):
what does it mean, you know, like what's it all about?
And I think you guys, you filled that gap that
she never got with us, um probably of wanting to,
you know, explore those deeper things which she very much
turned into and with spirituality, like Hunter and I never
picked up any of the spirituality, and I think in
her later years she's very much adopted it. And I

(17:44):
think she likes hearing the position of someone who grew
up in a more spiritual foundation, where Hunter and I
are like, give it a rest, like we're done. I
think that's the clost part about found family too, is that, like,
you come from such different walks of life, and if
you can get to that point of being found family,
then you can bring such a high level of quality
of just outside perspective on on everything that that came.

(18:08):
I think your mom also helped me, and you guys
helped me a lot in in a lot of things
that I was raised to believe that I was unsure about,
or that things that I didn't I wasn't raised with
the knowledge of that you guys might have had knowledge
or or experience in that helped kind of lead me
or guide me in like certain directions which I think
is super cool. We're gonna take a quick break, but
before that, I have one last question because, like you

(18:30):
had mentioned your you know, of of all of your friends,
the two people that you consider found family are actually
now your roommates. But there's a very common thing that
you say, like don't live with your roommates. Um, one,
what do you think of the don't live I mean
don't live with your best friends. Sorry, don't live with
your best friends, live with your roommates. What are your
thoughts on on that concept of like don't live with

(18:50):
your best friends? And were you nervous about all three
of us? I know you lived with Sam when you
guys were in college together, so you had a little
bit of experience in that, um, and then we had
been on tour together, which if you've never been on tour,
it's probably even closer than being roommates because you literally
share absolutely everything of the time. But um, but what
are your thoughts on that? Not really nervous? I mean

(19:12):
Sam and I have lived together. Sam's very independent, very introverted,
and I'm kind of the same. So I think like
for me at home has always been that place where
I like to be alone, and you know, have my
time to recharge. I'm very introverted in that sense where
recharge being alone. So Sam, I wasn't nervous about. They
know Sam, Sam and Dillon are both so closed off,

(19:34):
Like I'm the one I wake up in the morning,
I'm like, good morning, everybody. What are we doing for breakfast?
What are we doing? Walk in your room and just
stand there like, dude, what are you doing? Get out
of my room? But I think you know now, I
think maybe touring, like because we did have that little
rift initially when we spent so much time together that

(19:56):
I was like kind of like, all right, dude, like
I need you to back off a little bit. But
I think as we both got busy, I mean, you're
more busy now. Um you have your girlfriend when I
don't know if your viewers now, but you have your
girlfriend now, So I think it's less like of that
your need or my need to be together all the time.

(20:16):
So now it's no issue at all. But I mean,
you know, like I like my space, and yeah, I
know you need and I need your friend time. So
I try and accommodate that. You learn, you learn both,
you learn that exact stuff with both being roommates, but
also being found families. You figure out what works, what
doesn't work, what this person needs. And I think that
that when you get to that level of vulnerability, that

(20:37):
you're not worried about if they like you or if
you're going to be friends. I know I always make
the same joke to Dylan where I always say, Hey,
are we gonna be friends forever? But like, when you
have that confidence that, like you know that it's the
family level, it's not even just being friends level, then
it's you start really thinking about, Okay, what does this
person need? What can I do to help this person
either succeed in their task that they're on right now,

(20:58):
or even succeed in a bigger picture. Um, but Dylan,
I'm so happy you're my friend, so happy you're my
found family. We're gonna take a quick break. When we
come back, we'll be talking with a real, truly apparently
very angry therapist. We'll be right back. Welcome back to
Let's get into it. I'm alex Iono, and we are
here with John Kim a k A the angry therapist. John.

(21:22):
What's up? What's up? I want to say first, I've
been sitting here just staring at your glowing skin and
feeling really old man. And I'm sitting in front of
a window, so I got a natural sunlight coming in.
We're on zoom, there's no filters, and your skin is
just glowing. It's like I also have a big bright
window in front of me, so it's giving it. It's
really favoring me. And Dylan's also sitting back farther and

(21:43):
not getting the light, so it's even giving a better contrast.
It's truly, it's truly a wizard of our situation. You
gotta look. You probably beautiful skin too. I just can't
see you that far. Yn't going as well. Dylan is
better askin than I do. I break out. I have
like I have to go to the dermatologist all the time.
All In like throws spaghetti water on his face and
it's fine. It does a job. Yeah. Um, so, John,

(22:08):
We're gonna get into the whole found family thing because
I want to hear your experience if you have you know,
the same kind of situation. But before we get into that,
I want to know because you know my listeners. I'm
sure some of them have heard of heard your podcasts
and are familiar with you, but I want to know
what makes you the angry therapist? Um? Just being Korean man.
I was born angry, that's my default. No. I I

(22:30):
used to be a really angry person. And I was
angry because I was unhappy. I was in my twenties,
a struggling screenwriter in Hollywood, grew up in l A.
And I didn't allow myself to be happy until I
was successful. My definition of success was, you know, the
house on the hills, the fancy cars and a three
picture deal, all that stuff. Um. And I was talking
to my own therapist and he's like, if you can't

(22:52):
be a screenwriter, what do you want to do with
your life? And I was like, you know what, if
I can't move people by the masses, I want to
do what you're doing. I've always loved psychology. I want
to go be a therapist. And he's like, well, go
do it. And um, next thing you know, I'm thirty five,
just got divorced, and I'm in grad school. And what
I didn't know, what he didn't tell me was after
you graduate, you got to do three thousand hours. And

(23:14):
so it took me six years, which probably compounded my anger.
Um and and so that you know, I used to
be angry. I'm not angry anymore, but um, I used
to be unh angry. That came from being unhappy, angry
stemming from unhappiness. That's that's awesome. I think the coolest
thing is and and uh and again your partner Vanessa,
who has been on the show. If I'm not mistaken,

(23:35):
she also has a similar background in the sense, so
she was working production, right, wasn't she a producer? Yes,
incorporate so not in entertainment for vitening water for you know,
right right right and adds and adds. That's what it was.
And so that's that's that's super cool. I'm very very
interested in hearing more of your podcast, so we're definitely
going to be listening to it more and more. But

(23:57):
let's get back to uh, found family, what do you
have an experience with that with them, with kind of
adopting your own, you know, group of people that feel
so um what what a great topic. By the way,
And when I was listening to you guys and how
you are so integrated with your your roommate and his
family and vice versa, and I was like, and there
was a part of me that was kind of jealous.

(24:17):
I was like, wow, that's amazing to have that kind
of support. And I think with me, I remember having
a found family when I was younger. So I grew
up in the eighties. You guys were just an idea.
And my parents are always at work, right because they
are workaholics, and so I was left alone. There were
also not a lot of Asian people. Um, so I
was kind of like the Korean orphan that the families

(24:40):
took in for like Thanksgiving, you know, And so I
just hopped around and then and I remember the uh,
the warmth and the support of being around a family,
not only because I was friends with the you know,
their children, and also but the mom and dad and
the older sisters. And it was almost tribal. And I
can imagine back in the day, this is what it

(25:00):
felt like to do life with people. It had that
kind of like community, tribal, you know, win this together. Um.
And then as I grew up just been on my
own and being like a drifter. I haven't experienced that
since I was like twelve. Mm hm, that's that's uh.
I don't know if that's awesome or if it's I mean,

(25:20):
it made you where where you are now, which is
which is awesome. Um, but I can that's totally tough
because I think for me, like you said the word tribe,
and for me growing up in Los Angeles and you know,
living with my family and turning eighteen moving to New York,
having other found family like I've mentioned earlier in the stories,
I don't know where I would be without it, and

(25:41):
and so um, I I applaud you for not having
that kind of situation and and and still ending up
where you are, which is which is amazing. Yeah, I
mean I have my own family now, but maybe that's
also why I've been so angry that I've never had
a found family. Um, well, there you go. We're not
meant to do life alone. You know, we're tribal creatures,

(26:01):
and so uh having a support system, having having not
only friends, but other people that you can count on, Man,
that makes you feel less alone in the in the world.
And also when it's hard to believe in yourself, you
have other people that are gonna champion your story and
carry that And that's amazing absolutely. And I mean outside
of being the angry therapist on your podcast, you are
a real therapist in real life. UM, And I know,

(26:24):
I'm sure that you've experienced, you know, people clients who
come to you and experience things like this. I know,
in talks with my own therapist, he refers a lot
to like a support group or or you know, your
close friends, or my therapist even references that found family
or that chosen family to rely on. How often are
you seeing or utilizing people at like people's friends or

(26:47):
people's support groups that aren't necessarily their birth family, UM
to help them get through things that they're dealing with. Yeah.
So the thing for me now, and I think it's
been happening in the last I would say five to
ten years, the explosion of UM commun needy with fitness.
You know, you're talking about fitness and how that's your
thing this week. UM. The invention of things like cross

(27:07):
fit was the tightness of the community and before the pandemic,
when we were out and about, I found a lot
of support and power in going to those classes and
sweating with people, you know, building something, whether it's a
new body or friendship in communities. And uh, I think
because back in the day, we know, you know, we
just went to the gym and and we just picked

(27:28):
up weights and and you know, reading us weekly on
the treadmill and stuff. I was very kind of like
a lot of solitude. Um. Now it's like you do
it in communities, and I think that's that's the way
to do it these days as an adult. You know, yeah, absolutely, Um,
I think I think one of the biggest things in
terms of found family is, you know, some people use
their found family or or really rely on their found

(27:50):
family because they don't have or they they are pretty
distant from their birth family, um, like you mentioned earlier.
But then I also think that some people use their
found family, you express themselves in ways that they feel
like they might not be able to with their birth family. Immediately,
think of Mila jam who was on our Beyond the

(28:11):
Beyond the Binary episode, and she referenced in her upbringing
how she didn't even realize who she could be or
who she really truly was at heart until she moved
out to New York and started hanging out with other
gay or trans friends. And and so that's what comes
to my mind is the LGBTQ plus community specifically because

(28:32):
in my own experiences firsthand, I've had friends who have
come out to me and there are other found family
before they actually turn around and and and actually come
out to their their birth family or their assigned family.
Why has found family important or more important to some people,
um than their actual birth family. I think because it
gives you fresh perspective. It's kind of what you're talking

(28:52):
about now. Families are very sticky. The dynamic of a
family is very sticky. So when you grow up with
a certain kind of set of rules and values and
all that, and that's what you used to um, you're
very narrow and it feels like that, you know, there's
there's a very clear cut what's wrong, what's right. And
then when you get absorbed by another family, another container,
another space, another tribe. Now you're seeing, um, the world

(29:16):
through other other lenses. And then I think then it
opens it up and it's like, oh wait, you know
this family thinks these things and it's different from mine.
It's not not not wrong or right, but you know,
and now I have choices, and I think that's it
can stretch you mentally, you know it. It's the world
big mentally, emotionally, psychologically, UM, there's this like weird sense

(29:38):
that I feel of like of almost like belonging that
I feel when I'm connected to my found family or
when I'm connected to people who feel open enough to
be their truest selves, and and there's like there's this
inclusivity that you feel on both ends, that you feel
like you're including somebody enough that they feel comfortable. And
then also when you're on the receiving end, that you

(29:59):
just feel included and you feel like you belong. I
go back to like my friendship with Dylan and and
and Hunter and Sandy and all of them. When I
when I really got close and connected with Sandy and
Mickey and they would invite me to family breakfasts and
birthdays and stuff, like, you feel like you belong and
you feel like you're really you know in the moment um.

(30:20):
What happens to somebody though mentally when they do not
have a found family, especially if they if they really
do need one. I think it's like, um, a saltwater
fish living in a fish bowl, you know what I'm saying.
I think, Um, we're not designed to be to to
do life alone. And so when we don't have a

(30:43):
found family or friends, uh, and we're isolating ourselves. We
live in the scariest place on the planet, which is
in between our ears. You're right, So we're thinking a lot.
We're we have a lot of cognitive distortions, we have
a lot of self doubt, and there's no one that's
gonna help us, you know, process that there's no one
that's gonna pull us out of our mental quickstand. So
it's very easy to drown. It's very easy that our

(31:05):
scales turned gray and we're not swimming if we don't
have support as far as you know, a found family, friends, partner,
you know all of that stuff. Damn, you said the
scariest place in the world. I was thinking, like, O, hey,
where is this? And that's wild. I'm I'm I'm keeping that.
I'm gonna write a song about that. I'll give you.
I'll give you five for writing. So I have a

(31:27):
couple of final questions before we take one more break.
So if somebody is feeling alone, right, you said we
were not meant to do life alone, but they don't
necessarily have a found family. What what's your advice and
how somebody could go about finding their community, finding their family.
I know you mentioned like workout groups and all of
those things, but what's the advice that you would give

(31:48):
to to the listener right now, who is thinking, man,
I need that. I think this is where the internet
has is such a gift, right because the Internet can
be a double edged sword. Um, you can create and
joint communities online. You know, I've gotten any and I
think if you don't have a place as far as
going outside your house, or if you don't have you know,
a fitness community, if you don't have friends, then online

(32:12):
you can jump into communities that you know based on
your passion, based on what you like, and start engaging
with people, whether to via zoom or even if it's
on Facebook, it doesn't matter, right, It's still there's real
people been those profile picks. So um, I think that's
that's a good place to start, you know. Yeah, I
think that's really cool about that is that as public

(32:33):
as the Internet can be, you know, you can also
sign up with a private account. If it's something that
you're nervous about, you can make a whole side private
account and and be in a group that makes you feel,
you know, true to yourself and makes you feel heard
and seen. And you could be going by you could
go by you know, John Kim the Angry therapist, or
you could go by like you know, Josh Michael's the

(32:55):
X you know, college swimmer. No, but like nobody knows,
and so I think, um, that's something that that could
be really meaningful. And I think it's also very meaningful
right now during COVID and during this pandemic, especially as
we're unfortunately looking like we're prepping for the second wave
of it all and we're not going to be able
to hang out with each other and go out and
mingle and socialize with each other. Um, is there any
other advice that you would have, especially for right now

(33:17):
where we are, outside of being online, for somebody who
needs to go about trying to find some found family
right now. You know, it's something that you have to
make an effort to effort for. I mean, you know,
I think a lot of people, even with friends, as
we become adults. When we're in school, friends kind of
are in our structure. So whether it's you know, camp
or recess or detention, it's a lot of plug in play.

(33:38):
But when you become adults, you actually have to make
an effort to make friends, you know, and I think
a lot of us, um, we don't do that. I
know I didn't. I thought friends were a waste of
time growing up. You know, I just wanted to build
my empire, and now I'm realizing how important it is.
So whether you do it online or offline, it's like
building any relationship, you have to go find and put
effort into creating your found family, creating friendships. You gotta

(34:01):
put yourself out there, you know. Yep, that's and I
think that's a perfect place to end. You gotta go
out there. You do have to put in the work.
Found families and something that you find by just you know,
sitting at home and you know, wallowing in your own sadness.
So this is this is that outside voice saying you
got this, go for it, Go and put in that work,
and I know that you'll find people. That's the biggest

(34:22):
thing too, that is that as different as we all
are as people, I think everybody has some group or
some friend or some found family somewhere that will completely
you know, fit to them the way that I'm fortunate
to have, you know, the March family, um and and
Mickey and Sandy Lee, you know fit with me. Yeah yeah,

(34:43):
And you know, label it under self care. You know,
it's not something extra. It's just like your daily sweat
or what you put in your body. You got to
make an effort to surround yourself with people that are
going to champion your story. That is perfect, John, thank
you so much for coming on the podcast. We're gonna
take a quick break when we can back. We've talked
a lot about Found family. Now we're going to compare
and contrast it to our birth families and how those

(35:05):
work together. We'll be right back. All right, we are back.
This is let's get into it. I'm alex Ion No.
We have had some great conversations today with my guests
Dylan March, my best friend, and John Kim, the Angry Therapist,
And now we're talking about your first family, your birth
family versus your found family. And I don't really think

(35:25):
versus in the sense of like they ever are clashing,
because for me, like I mentioned earlier in my story,
I have, in my opinion, the best family on Earth.
I was assigned and given and birth to an incredibly
supportive and incredibly loving, no matter who I am, no
matter how I act, loving type of family, and I
just kind of added on to it. Um. We've talked

(35:46):
a lot about that kind of on this episode and
how important found family can be. I guess for me, obviously,
my my family super healthy. Dylan, your family, you guys
are all you guys are all very close and it's
a very good, tight knit family. Um, John, what's your
what is your thought on how healthy slash unhealthy relationship

(36:07):
from our first family can play into how much somebody
will need a found family. Oh, I think it's everything.
I worked in nonprofit for five years helping teenage addicts
with their addiction, and over five years treating you know,
thousands of kids. The one common denominator was a family.
And uh no one had dad's So either dad was

(36:28):
not there or he was emotionally not there. And so
I saw the byproduct of that. And uh, I think
we live in a father to listen nation, you know.
And even with with my family, my dad was great.
He came to America with no money, worked his ass off,
but he was also an alcoholic and I think a workaholic.
And uh, you know, he never taught me how to
hit a ball. He never sat down and told me

(36:50):
what a man looks like. Um, we never had any
kind of those kind of conversations. And so I found
my role models. Um, you know, in movies in locker rooms,
and they were all distorted versions of men right in
pornography and you know everything that that was outside of
the family. And so I wonder who I would have
become or if I wonder if I would have crossed

(37:12):
a great divide from boy demand in a faster if
I had a dad who was more present, you know. Yeah, absolutely,
and Dylan. Now, I guess on the contrast, how does
your I guess you might not necessarily have a need
for a found family, but like, we've spent a lot
of family time together. My family was just here about
a month ago, and we have all of that experience.

(37:34):
What's your experience with the found family, even though you
do have such an awesome dope family as it stands me. Yeah,
I mean, I'm very much on a contrast to you, John.
I grew up with, you know, my dad, who was
kind of my superhero and probably one of the most
affectionate men on the planet. And then when I was five,
my stepdad came into the picture and he was like
double that role. And they've always had such a healthy

(37:57):
relationship between my dad and stepdad, and without ever admitting it,
they're probably best friends as well. Wow, that's amazing. I'm
going to leave this podcast really angry and jealous. Justify um.
But so I think for me, I mean, it's like
you said, like I think, I think my family has

(38:17):
always been very quick to welcome people in between you
and even Sam, and so I think probably my idea
of found family isn't so strong because I've always felt
so supported by mind. But yeah, with your family, I've
never felt, you know, not included. And I think because
even initially, I know, I'm sure we were way Hunter
and I were not the friends you're probably parents expected

(38:42):
from you how to and I grow very liberally, and
we were, you know, I think, hyper sexualized, very young,
and I think when when we had met Alex, he
was very on the opposite the end of that spectrum.
Always think even going to bring that stuff off, But
that's hilarious, keep going. So I think we're just lucky,
because I do think your parents had some warming up
to do to us, but they have and I think
they see the value that we've brought to your life,

(39:04):
and I you know, I'm so happy that they can
accept people like us who are very not probably what
they're used to. Yeah, I think that that's the big
thing is like found family. There's it's like a it's
a two part thing, like you have to find the family,
but then you also have to be the family that
is welcoming and opening or and open, you know, like
you said, my parents were with you, and I think

(39:26):
your parents were with me. And in a smaller sense,
like I'm making the loudest noise I possibly can for
about twelve hours a day, and the fact that not
only your mom and Mickey were cool with it, they
were also like they wanted to hear it. They would
often ask what I'm doing, And it's I think it's
a dual effort thing for a found family that you

(39:46):
want to be good to this found family, but also
the found family is going to be open and uh
and loving and and and inclusive with you or or
either of your family is willing to adopt at this
point or no stopped. Yeah for seven year old Korean therapists,
you are so welcome to calm. We having Thanksgiving here
at the house. John, you Vanessa, You're more than welcome

(40:09):
to come. I think it would be amazing and I'm
sure that we could all use some more therapy, so
it'd be perfect it'll be a perfect exchange. Um. I
think something that I really really loved when I was
thinking about this whole episode is the concept of like
family values. Right, So, like I was raised and my
family as values, but then I blend my birth family

(40:30):
and my new family together and I have my own
set of family values. You know. I think for me
being raised and very religiously being raised in Arizona, which
fortunately is starting to turn but originally was an insanely
conservative state, especially politically too. Then moving to California, having
friends like Dylan and Hunter and having a team like

(40:50):
Billy and Liz and Ron who have helped me kind
of learn new things. And I really experienced so many
things in life, and now I have my own set
of family values. And I think a lot, especially right now,
a lot of people are spending a lot of time
away from their families, some of them for the first
time ever. Yeah, what's something that you both discovered that
you deeply valued yourself that didn't necessarily come from the

(41:12):
family that you were raised in, Something that you would
consider your own and your future family values. You know,
I get admit, I'm kind of on the beginning of
this journey. Um, I don't feel like I had a
lot of values. I mean, you know, I wanted to
be a good person. I've never killed anyone or you know,
done anything like that. But as far as values, I
didn't grow up with a certain set of blueprints that

(41:35):
we went by. Right. Um, My parents basically wanted to
give their kids designer genes so they wouldn't be beat up.
So um, they just worked a lot and we were
just surviving. So this idea of like, you know, here
are the values, Um, it was basically study hard and
and and try to be American. So now at forty
seven and having an eight month old daughter, now I'm

(41:56):
starting to have this conversation with myself, Um, what are
my values? You know, what do I want to pass
down what's important to me? And I think it's also
what's happening in the world globally with this whole pandemic
and shake up and also the political landscape. People are
going back to what are my values? What do I
believe in? What am I willing to fight for? So uh,
this is a very topical question, I think globally and individually. Yeah,

(42:21):
for sure, Dylan, do you have anything that you kind
of put together now? That may not necessarily be parallel
with the raising the way you're raised. Um, I think
like when I look at I guess the ends were
justified by the means from my family. I mean, you've
seen the wrath of my mom. I mean she could
be the angry mom and do her own podcast, but

(42:43):
you know, she found spirituality and in the last five
years or so over life, and that's changed a lot.
But I think everything that she's done, which you know,
we used to fear her growing up, which was but
her whole values was for us at least. What she
wanted from us was get good grades, don't do drugs,
and don't get a are pregnant, and like other than that,
our life was free to do what we want. So

(43:04):
you know, I could be thirteen and come home at
two in the morning if I was sober and had
good grades. And you know, initially she scared the hell
out of me. But now I think those values that
you put in me, I think I'm gonna probably adopt
with my children, but no, I don't in terms of
other families. I think I'm I still look at my
mom like as perfect. That's what she's done. Like where
my dad I very much of like you get older

(43:25):
and you realize he wasn't he was great at sports,
and he was good looking, and he was the bachelor,
and he had all that stuff going for him. But I, like,
I still very much idolize how my mom has raised us.
And um, so I think I'm gonna stay pretty true
to my first family in terms of values. That's good.
I mean, I think that I'm gonna stay true to
so many of the first and I think that that's

(43:46):
going to lead me into my next question that I
have for both of you are My next kind of
statement is that like when you do have a great
first family, like your found family will help you explore
things or you'll it'll help you, you know, answer some
questions for yourself. But at the end of the day,
if you have an amazing you know, first family of
an amazing birth family, I feel the exact same. Like
I think when I when I turned eighteen, it was

(44:07):
about the same time I met you, and I went
off and explored what life was like outside of my
small Mormon Arizona upbringing, and I, you know, a drank
alcohol for the first time, and I tried weed for
the first time, and like and wasn't afraid about like
waiting till marriage and all of those things that we've
talked about on this podcast before. Um, I think a

(44:28):
lot of those things were less of my family not
allowing me to do those things and more of me
being worried that they wouldn't do those things. I kind
of made the decision for them. Um. But I'm so
lucky that I went off and I did those things
and I found you know, I I expanded my brain
and I kind of put together my own family values
in such a safe place. UM with uh, you know,

(44:51):
with you and with Hunter. Like you had mentioned when
we first met, I remember this very specific conversation we
had on the cruise ship that made me go like,
holy cow, these guys are different. These guys are not
like me. Um. And and it's it is it is
like I'm not going to explain. It's an NSF dubs
right here. For that I want to I want to
kind of crack over into kind of closing this up. Um, John,

(45:15):
you're a new dad. Congratulations to thank you. Congratulations. Uh,
you're also a new dad and probably the worst time
possible to be a new dad. I mean, we're dealing
with every problem in the world right now, from COVID
to the madness of this election, to global warming and
climate how is that? I think it's the well I

(45:36):
I disagree. I think it's the best time to be
a dad. I think it's the worst time to to
have a baby. So the actual in going to hospital
all that, of course that's terrifying, But to be a dad,
it's the best time. I have zero pomo. No one's
doing anything, so it's like, oh, now the time to
be changing diapers. Man, I don't feel like I'm left out. Um.
I Also, we also recently moved to a home in Altadenah.

(45:58):
I got some chickens now and it's uh, you know,
it's and I don't want to say that it's a
distraction because there's a lot going out going on in
the world. Um, but I think what it does is
it grounds me. So instead of allowing myself to have
anxiety and think the sky is falling and all of
this with what's going on, UM, I could watch that,

(46:18):
witness that, but then I, um, I have a baby,
so UM to look into a baby's eyes to see
you know, um, your DNA looking back at you is
is pretty amazing. Mm hmm. And now having this whole conversation,
what are your what are your takeaways? Um, as a
father now from your own experience of of having an

(46:39):
upbringing with the birth family you did and and now
you know, being who you are. Yeah, just to simplify,
my biggest school with my daughter is to be there.
So whatever that looks like, whether it's emotionally physically, I
have to always remind myself to be there. Um. I
think that's the most important. I don't think any parents
is perfect. I think we all have our stuff that
we gotta work through. But as long as I'm there,

(47:03):
I think that will set her up for a better
life because again, I think we live in a farther
of this nation. I think a lot of dad's, um,
well moms too, but you know, just being a guy,
a lot of dad's they're just not there. You know,
they're they're they're they're emotionally not there or they're just
physically not there. And uh, that's something that's very important
to me to be there for her. Ah, that's that's amazing.

(47:25):
That's where we should really end the show here, guys.
I mean, the takeaways are easy, I think I think
for me this episode is awesome because we have three
people from three completely different walks of life, you know,
John being much much different than Dylan and I, but
even Dylan and I having different upbringings in the sense
of how we were raised, and then when we met,
you know, bringing different qualities to each other's lives, and

(47:46):
bringing different qualities to each other's families and picking up
qualities from each other's families as well, which is really awesome.
And then also understanding that while you know, while John
didn't necessarily have that same experience growing up or through
his you know, his teens are his early adulthood. Uh,
the importance of how important it is to not go

(48:07):
through life alone, especially right now in COVID and and
and massive amounts of division and and lots of hatred
going both ways. It is very important to know that, like,
life is not meant to be done by yourself, and
it's not meant to be done in the small bubble
that you were raised in, and it's not meant to
be done you know, any other way than inclusively and

(48:28):
with everybody together. So UM, thank you guys both for
being on my show. Um, this is now my favorite
part of the show is called not So Shameless promo. UM, basically,
I'm gonna give you guys the floor and you get
to tell us where we can find you. John, you
want to kick it off, yeah, I guess. Uh. Instagram
would be the most uh where I'm the most active
at the Angry Therapists and speaking of um families and

(48:51):
not doing life alone. During the pandemic, I created something
called the Lab and so we've got a twelve live
zoom groups were running every week and uh, tons of
people jumping in there to feel like they're part of something.
And so that's also out there too. If you want
to jump in, that sounds perfect. I might. I might
have to come and jump into those just because I
like I like. Dylan knows that I like having friends

(49:11):
around and talking to people, and he'll probably be happy
if I joined that instead of talking to him and
wondering that in my room, instead of standing in his room. Dylan,
that being said, give it to us for me. There's
really only Instagram. You can check it out. It's at
d l N m r c A so Dylan Marsh
without vowels some photography stuff on there. If you're into that. Yeah,
if you need a photographer. I can tell you firsthand,

(49:33):
best photographer in town, shoots film, shoots digital. I'm doing
the self promo for him. Hey, what's up, guys. This
is Dylan March. Here. Shoot, I shoot, I shoot, I
shoot film, I shoot digital, I shoot anything you want.
If you want your baby shot pictures, we got it.
We got it here for you. Come on down Dylan
March Enterprises. Thank you. The salesman, thank you. I'm a
salesman for you. Don't worry man. That's what friendships all.

(49:54):
That's what found family is. You gotta find somebody who
will sell your products for you. Love it, John, Thank
you so much, and thank you so much. Listeners. Thank
you so much for listening. Again. If you are loving
the podcast, please rate the podcast, please subscribe. That is
how we grow. You could leave a um, what's the
word I'm looking for? Why do I always not know
this word? Review? Review? Thank you? Please rate the podcast,

(50:16):
Please subscribe to the podcast, and if you've got some time,
make a nice sweet review. That is how we grow.
But we will see you guys next time. Thanks for listening. Peace.
We really want you to get the help you need,
so if you need help, please seek independent advice from
a competent healthcare or mental health professional. The views and

(50:39):
opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the
podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, and do
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This podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental
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not established dr patient relationship with hosts or guests of
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No guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of any statements

(51:00):
or opinions made on this podcast, Wolf That's a Doozy