Humor in Grief with Steve Basilone + Karen Erlichman

Whether it's a breakup or the death of a loved one, we all go through grief - and laughing through the tragedy may be the best way to begin the healing process. Terribly Funny podcast host Steve Basilone (Community, The Goldbergs) joins us to talk about how to process grief through humor, and therapist Karen Erlichman dives into the ways that laughter can often relieve physical and emotional pain.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Alex, and I love it when people
make me laugh when I'm sad. No right, no, alright, no,
we'll be alright forever. No right right, noll belright. We're

(00:25):
right now. And I'm dating a girl and we had
been dating for like two months. And I remember this
is just backstory so you can understand how painful it
was for me. I was in New York City and
she wanted me to fly home for this concert. I
flew home a day early from my New York City trip.
I go to this concert and she's there with another

(00:45):
guy and goes backstage with that other guy. This is
after almost two months of us talking like every day,
like full on, being all about each other. Long story short.
Her side of the story was that it was just
a friend and you was actually friends with the artist,
and so a little fishy to me. I'm not gonna
lie a little fishy still to this day. And what

(01:06):
happened was I left that show pretty angry and we
kind of got a little fight that night over texting, obviously,
and then the next day I went rock climbing for
the first time. Fast forward today, rock climbing is like
one of my favorite hobbies. I do it at least
once a week. But for the first time, I went
rock climbing, and I went rock climbing with my friend Hunter,
and uh, and I'm texting her like the fight spilled over,

(01:28):
like we fell asleep and then we woke up the
next day kept fighting. So the fight spills over, and
we're texting during rock climbing, like in between climbs. I'm
like texting back and forth and I'm just like, ah,
I just can't believe you would do this. And then
eventually she sends a text that you never want to
get and it says, I think we should I think
we should break up. And I immediately went from like

(01:50):
fighting fighting, fighting to like a dog turning over on
its back, like no, like don't leave because I'm just
an emotional sap. And I totally was sad. My my
whole mood changed. I was out in the middle of
like the mountains, like having fun climbing, and I immediately
was just like life sucks. Everything sucks. I hate it.
And Hunter, being a great friend of mine, said hey,

(02:13):
what's going on, Like, like, what's going on? And I
told him I was like, look, this person broke up
with me. Uh, and this this is a side note.
I've never exposed a single person on this podcast, and
I could. I could. I got, Hey, the it's there,
it's locked and loaded, but I'm not going to, by
the grace of God. Back to the story, So I

(02:36):
told him, Yeah, she broke up with me, And I
don't know why I thought he was going to be
the type of friend to be like, oh, man, like,
come on, give me a hug, let me let me
console you. Like she's not worth it. She says, she's
that I was so wrong for thinking that that was
going to be Hunter's response. By the way, if you
don't know Hunter Hunter March, he's the host of Sugar
Rush on Netflix. He's one of the hosts for Nightly

(02:56):
Pop on e He and I met at Awesomeness t V.
He's an incredibly funny guy and uh and one of
my oldest friends. That being known now, I'm sure you
can put two and two together that he just started
a whole stand up comedy set right then and there.
That it was directly just making fun of our relationship,
making fun of the fact that I was this heartbroken

(03:18):
over a two month little fling. It was just joke.
After joke after joke after joke, everything from like how
could you be this infatuated with somebody after two months,
which is like my was my specialty until until My
love versus last episode where where we broke down, Um,
that that's just lust. It was really like at first,
I was kind of like, dude, not right now, Like

(03:40):
now is not the time I'm sad. I'm like, email,
I want to listen to Adele. It's like it started
slowly turning into like it was pretty funny, and then
by the end of it, I'm like laughing out loud,
like I am crying. We end up going to lunch
afterwards with his dad and his He tells his dad,
his dad gets in on the jokes, starts making more jokes.

(04:01):
Everybody's joking about it, and it really like, at first
I thought to myself that I wasn't giving myself enough
time to be sad about it, But in reality, they
just took something that really wasn't, you know, in the
big picture, that big of a deal and made it
lose its weight, like they lost the weight of this
heartbreak that I was feeling, And in reality, it made

(04:22):
me laugh at myself for being like, yeah, why was
I so caught up on this on this girl? Why?
Like it was that it's nothing like it really means
nothing to me, and uh, and it was. It was
really cool. It was the first time that I ever
truly experienced laughing through the pain. You know, a lot
of people say humor is the best medicine and and
all of those things. So that got me thinking, how

(04:43):
much pain can you really laugh through? No, what's of friends?
It's Alex. This is let's get into it. It's my
podcast where I talk about life and the things that
I go through and my friends go through um on
an everyday basis. I am very fortunate to have two
great guests with me. One of them I know, and
one of them I'm about to know really really well.

(05:03):
All right. Our first guest is Steve Basilone. He is
a producer and writer for celebrated shows like Community, which
right now in Quarantine you can find on Netflix and
meet the Goldberg's. His film The Long Weekend is set
to come out later this year, and he's now my
new favorite human on Earth? Steve, how are you well
doing doing well? Now that I now know that I'm

(05:24):
someone's favorite human? I mean, that's a big honor. So
I feel like I'm not the only person who's who
places you as their favorite human right now. Family friends, Yeah,
I think my dad and I've got a new puppy,
so I'm probably on the shortage puppy. Oh my goodness.
The puppy is guaranteed has you as like his top
ten favorite people, like you are all ten in in
different different times of the day. I think so. But

(05:45):
I think also if she meets somebody else like I
drop immediately like it's just it just whoever is in
front of her that's her favorite humans. So it's like
it's doesn't it doesn't carry as much weight as you'd
wanted to, you know. Well, speaking of puppies, I have
some there's somebody here that I love like a puppy
loves its owner. Karen Earl Comn my wisdom Tree, one
of my very very dear friends. Karen, how are you.

(06:06):
I am doing pretty well today, Alex. Thanks so much
for asking. If you are not familiar with Karen from
our previous episodes, Karen is a therapist. She is one
of my very very good friends who just has always
given me good information on things, so I love having
her on my show. Steve, you don't know this yet,
but I have a question that I ask all of
my guests, and that question is what are you doing
to improve your life this week? I'll give you some time.

(06:28):
I'll go first. I do workout swhere Basically it's somebody
telling me what to do, So it's a video of
a workout or a pen I d X video or
a Peloton exercise. Um. And this week I wanted to
try and practice my discipline when it comes to somebody
not telling me what to do, to just try and
go and push myself as far as the coaches push
you on the videos. I don't know if that makes sense.

(06:49):
And that's what I got for this week, Karen, What
you got for us? Um? My self improvement this week
is not quite as exciting. But I have been wiping
down all of my groceries but before I bring them
in the house because we're recording this during pandemic and
I literally have just like had the little container of
wipes at the door, so before I just literally wipe

(07:11):
them off before I bring them in, and then I
feel not only safer but better about myself. All right, Steve,
you have something for us? Uh? Yeah, I think mine
is like the inverse of yours, because I was doing
workouts by myself and I was like, you know, you
do it and it's something that could take a half
an hour, it takes an hour and a half because
you're looking at your phone, you play with a dog, whatever.

(07:33):
So I'm doing now, like the virtual workouts that has
just beaten the hell out of me. And that and
like trying to get up before nine. I feel like
those are the two things that, like, you know, starting
your day with some oomph, get some momentum going. I
think that that's perfect. I think that that's I feel
like for me. The reason why I wanted to try
pushing myself was because I had kind of locked in

(07:54):
listening to somebody and knowing, Okay, this is the time
that you work, and I now know what it takes,
I know what it feels like, I guess, but I
definitely can find myself when I work out on my
own with nothing, just being on my phone or cat
like somebody calls and I'm like, I'll just take a
quick little break and then break and go okay, third set. Well,
thank you for sharing that. I'm very very glad. I

(08:14):
hope that that is uh that breeds a successful um
workout regime. But today I'm gonna start with this quote.
To truly laugh, you must be able to take your
pain and play with it. It's Charlie Chaplin right there.
I just found that out, um. But today we're gonna
be talking about dealing with trauma and healing from it
through humor. Steve, you and I are gonna go first,

(08:35):
we're gonna hang out, talk about life and what's going on. Karen,
we'll talk to you in a bit, and and then
lastly we're all gonna hang out and talk about laughing
the pain away. I guess. So let's get into it. Steve,
you actually have experience, um dealing with your personal life,
your job, and your friends, but also handling some pretty traumatic,

(08:56):
serious things in your life. How did you manage that?
And can you tell us a little bit about that? Uh? Yeah,
I mean I think Look, I think, um, everybody has
their ship, it just dressed up differently. And I think
the only thing that makes me what what I feel
like it was like it felt like an odd slot
of things that happened to me, and I think it's
the same kind of stuff that's coming for everybody. It

(09:17):
just happened to me very quick in quick succession, and
I was younger I was. I got diagnosed with a
thing called all sort of colitis when I was twenty two,
and then I spent the better part of the next
decade like just in and out of hospitals and sick
and uh quite quite literally shitty my brains out. And
it was, you know, it was one of those things

(09:38):
that it was just like a very frustrating because you see,
you're what you're you're a young man? What are something
like right on the head. Nailed it, nailed it. You
should you should go you should go be at the
carnival where they go there. If I guess your age
and it's not right, I will prize it feels that
feels like a good career, a good shift for me.
I got that in my back pocket at least. But yeah,

(09:59):
so I would diagnosed with this thing, and I spent
like eight years kind of sick and in thatt of hospitals,
and at the worst of it, I weighed like eighty
five pounds and was just just a bag of bones.
But then you know, finally after tried every treatment and
treatments didn't work, I finally made the decision to just
get my colon removed because it was like the only

(10:21):
technical cure for it, um, and it was it's it's
not I'm surprise, surprised. It's not a great time to
have your cold removed. It's not fun. So it was
like just one of those things that I think it
is UM. I remember having a conversation with a friend
of mine shortly after I got out of the hospital,

(10:42):
after I got it, I finished all of these things.
He had had cancer when he was very young, and
I felt like while the wildly different experiences, it was
still we had like the commonality, like the similar lexicon
of like young disease, which I feel like most people
don't have. It was particularly frustrated and like slowly died,
and I would see my friends treating their bodies like
trash cans, like eating like Jack in the box for breakfast,

(11:04):
and I was like, that's all I want all I
want to treat my body like a trash can. Um.
But remember him saying like that when he was in
the he remember he was in the hospital, and he
had this this revelation of being like I am never
going to complain about traffic ever, again, like something so
minute and so small, it's never gonna bother me again.
But like the truth is, that's bullshit. It's gonna bother

(11:26):
It's of course it's gonna bother you again, because that's
a luxury. That's like such a gift. The important thing
is to remember that like that, it can bother you
because it's it's important to you. It's messing up your day.
It's just important to remember the perspective to rise above
that and to remember that's trivial. So I had that,
and then I had a bunch of other things. I
had a couple of deaths in and a public divorce,

(11:47):
and it was just all compounded in the course of
like three years. For me. I feel like when you
go through that stuff, it is one of two. It
beats you up. It beats you up pretty good. And
I think you can have two reactions that can either
calcify you in harden you and turn you into like
a mollusk, or can or can tenderize you like the
piece of meat. Okay, it's perfect right there. I want

(12:08):
to ask about that because you hit that point obviously,
and I think a lot of us when we have
traumatic experiences, when we go God damn dude, like I can't.
I can't catch a break. What am I gonna do?
Like you know what, fuck it, I'm done or whatever.
And I've definitely felt that, and as you're mentioning, you
clearly felt that with the the onslaught of just roadblock, roadblock, roadblock, roadblock,

(12:31):
When you hit that point, like you've mentioned, where you
can either go left, you can go right. If you
go left, it's it is eternal, just callous, or you
go right and you can break through it and you
work through it and you laugh through it and you
become better and stronger through it. When did you hit that? Like,
is would there a defining point that you hit that? No?
I don't think so, because I think it's you know,

(12:51):
it's um It's it's like a story outside of like
you know, a book and a movie. Stories never end
really right, Like I can tell the story of a
romance I had and the romance ended, but like that
doesn't mean our relationship or how it affected me stops.
It continues to evolve, and I feel like that's what

(13:13):
it was for me. Like every like there'll be some
days we're like, you know, I feel pretty okay. It's
like it's a kid to what we're going through now,
like this weird quarantine ship. Like sometimes I'm fine and
other times I'm like, oh my god, existential dread, and
other times I feel like a teenage hornball, Like it's
just all these things confluence happening at once. So glad
that you just validated every feeling I felt over the

(13:34):
last month. And it's it's why. I mean, for me,
it feels like I feel like myself and then I
feel like I'm eight years old looking into the abyss,
and then I feel like I'm thirteen, and it's just
like just getting into the weird stuff. But I feel
like I feel like, so it wasn't it wasn't like
a specific moment, right. I think it was just like
over time, you just kind of have to acquiesce to

(13:57):
your reality. And I think that's like a big thing
that I kind have learned, is that recognizing that something
is going to be shitty immediately makes it less so
because I feel like if you just if you just
acknowledge that, like, okay, this period this next three months,
I remember going into the my operation being like this
is gonna suck, and instead of just being like trying

(14:19):
to fight against it, just like letting that wash over you.
Because so much of suffering is struggling against ship. So
it's like the suffering is like to fight against what
your reality is. And as much as that's it's much
easier said than done. But I think if you're just
able to be like, ah, this is gonna suck, and
as long as I know it's gonna suck, somehow, it
sucks less. Yeah, like I'm embracing. I feel like embracing

(14:42):
the suck is like, what is one of my my
favorite tips. It's like with working out, Like I know
a workout is gonna suck, Like nobody can go, hell,
this workout is gonna feel really nice on my quads,
Like it's not you're you're gonna want to die for
a moment, and that's that's part of it. So I've
been embracing the suck is super big. And I think
the way that you can tailor your mind to go, Okay,

(15:04):
this is gonna suck. This might even be the worst
thing in the world, and then it doesn't be the
worst thing in the world. It ends up being kind
of just a shitty thing, and then you're kind of like, Oh,
it wasn't as bad as I thought if that was
going to be the worst thing in the world. Um,
obviously you're a funny as human being. You right, for
one of the funniest shows to date. Um. But through

(15:26):
this process which you mentioned, was years and years and
years of dealing with your health and and the deaths
and and all of the traumatic experiences. You know, I
love UM. Pete Davidson. Uh. Pete Davidson talks a lot
about how his father died in nine eleven, and he
makes a lot of jokes about it that make a
lot of people feel uncomfortable. And I remember seeing an
interview of him talking about that's how I deal with it. Obviously,

(15:48):
sometimes it's a bit easier to laugh about something after
the fact. But how did you find humor when you
were in the midst of your pain? Well, I mean
I think a lot of it is, you know, I
think it kind of goes back to the way you're
hard wired from like a young age like I, you know,
was an only child and like probably hit puberty later.
So like I found like, oh, if I am funnier,

(16:10):
this is a way of gaining acceptance. So it's like
always it was always that that's kind of like wired
into me and I have like a funny family, so
like that was kind of there. And it's also like
early on it was a way of deflecting, right, it
was a way of like not acknowledging the reality because
you're marginalizing it. But then over time it also became
a way of to like the Pete Davidson thing, like

(16:30):
if you joke about it may make some people uncomfortable,
but it also it also it puts it out there
on the table. It mitigates it, and it shows like
if you're able to laugh about it, if you're able
to find funny about something that is like truly maybe horrific,
and that like to really sit in that feeling is
gonna be uncomfortable. But to just add any sort of

(16:51):
levity I think is like really uh great. And I
think to like the Charlie Chaplain quote that you brought, like,
I mean, I don't know anytime like I see like
any sort of uh I read like a very heavy
modeling book or see a movie or a TV show
that's like drama with a capital D. It just does
not work for me because like I feel like what reality,

(17:13):
like some of the hardest times I've left are like
at funerals or like in the hospital and ship like that,
because because that's when you're feeling it's like Icarus. You're
flying so close to the sun, you're sprinting, so like
all the colors are more vibrant, and you feel like
more alive, even if like you're closer to death. So
that's like when you're experiencing this Catharsis of all the emotions,

(17:34):
it's all just it's all just released, Like crying is
released in the same way that the laughter is released.
So I think they're like hand in hand, um. And
it's also it just it just makes it. It's just
a for me. It's just a better way of like living.
Like I know when I was when I was like
eighty five pounds or something and like looked rough, but
like my go to kind of joke would be like, yeah,

(17:54):
I look terrible, but my dicks never looked bigger because
the rest of me is so tight, Like very stupid joke.
But it's also like a way of like just being
like okay, it's okay, Like there's like a silver lining here.
And it also like you know, speaks to my very
adolescent sense of humor. But it's you know, I think
if you do that, it just shows other people that
like that it's okay. I mean, like, you know, after

(18:19):
my mother died shortly after all this stuff, and people
always be like just express sorrow and solitude and just
be like, I'm so sorry for your loss and just
be like I'm pretty sure it's not your fault. You're
not Mr Cancer, um, you know, and it just like
I just think it's just a way of just normalizing
allow people to talk about it, and if they can
have a release, then it it lets them in into
the room and lets them into the conversation without feeling

(18:41):
you have to tiptoe. Oh man, Yeah, I mean I've
heard that, Like, yeah, absolutely. One of the things that
I heard was like when you when you can laugh
about something, that's how you know the problem is behind you. Um.
But I don't know how I feel about that, because
I agree with you that sometimes my most traumatic experiences
that I've dealt with with family issues or money issues,

(19:01):
being broke, whatever, breakups and everything, the way that I
got through them was because I have friends who keep
it real with me all the time, and that just
makes so many jokes that were all too soon, but
at the same time there was like it was the
you know, the main thing that made me feel better
about it. And so when you when you can laugh
about something, the problem maybe still with you, not necessarily

(19:23):
behind you, but once it's behind you, I think it
definitely makes it easier to laugh about um. Yeah. And
I think the only danger in that is like if
you're just only laughing and you're not like actually acknowledging
what you're really feeling. So I think it is a
delicate line. We're gonna have to talk about that with
Karen too, because that's that's a very good point that
I didn't even think about. Yeah, I mean I always

(19:45):
thought of it like this is like a story that
I think I tell people like and they're like, why
would you do that? But like right after, right after
my mom it was like Christmas. It was right after
my mom had passed and I drove home. I'm from
Pittsburgh originally drow home and everybody my family was out
like doing Christmas things, and I just filled up like
a flask with a bunch of bourbon, and I went

(20:07):
to see that movie Wild, the Reese Witherspon movie like
Christmas Eve by myself in a theater it was totally empty,
and it's a movie that all about like loss and
and cancer and like going through like tough ship, and
like everybody's like why would you do that? Why would
you heap on? And for me, it's like there's the
adage of if you're from the East Coast and you
drive in like inclement weather, like especially like if you

(20:29):
were in snow, the instinct if you ever hit like
a patch of ice, your natural instinct is to turn
against it, but in fact you'll lose traction and then
your car will skid more So, what the what you're
told to do, you know it's against your instincts, is
to lean into this kid, And I feel like that's
something that I've learned a lot from, is like just
don't run away from those feelings. They may be like,

(20:49):
they may be tough to get through and you're goopy
and it's weird, but it's gonna invariably, I think, help
you in the long run, just to be like, oh,
I'm feeling feelings, let's have an excuse for Catharsis and
let all the ship out. Oh man, this reminds me
of my friend, like, I literally got dumped over text
and he immediately was like he was taught. He was
just making jokes like it was there was no time

(21:10):
in between as soon as I got dumped in him
making jokes. And to me, it really helped me laugh
my way through. I was crying, but I was laughing
and I was crying and then laughing, and it was
both and I felt it and I went through it.
It really helped me um as somebody who kind of
had a lot of time practicing that concept of healing

(21:31):
trauma with laughter. Have you ever done that for somebody else? Yeah?
I think, I mean I think so because I think
it's also um after you've been through I think a
lot of tumultuous things, you just have that perspective. I
remember when I was younger and I had a friend
of mine who whose mom died like this was in
in college, and I was just like, oh my god,
I don't know how to wrap my mind around that.

(21:52):
But then after going through it myself, I was like, oh, yeah,
it sucks, but it's just another It's just another thing,
and it kind of gives you carte watch to like
be a little bit more flippant about it because you've
been through it and you know what that's like. And
I know, I remember um years ago, I was I
was married, and this was the woman who like very
much like kept me alive while I was like very sick. Uh.

(22:13):
And then shortly after we got married, she came to
realize that, in fact, that she was gay. So you know,
it's hard to maintain a relationship under those circumstances. So
he invariably split up, and it was like this kind
of like public thing. But a buddy of mine who
was like one of my best friends, my shoutout was
this guy Dan. Everybody else didn't know how to deal

(22:33):
with that because it felt uncomfortable and it was a
difficult thing to talk about. But like the first time
he saw her after this happened, he was just kind
of like, so, it's fucking really weird you're gay now, right,
And like that was immediately like she was able to
laugh at that, because it was like everybody else was
tiptoeing around it, and instead he just like came out
of front, you know, face on, and just like recognized,
like this is weird, and that's the way she was feeling,

(22:54):
that's the way I was feeling and just like putting
that voice in the room was like, this is so
much more comfortable than just like, you know, doing the
thing at the way like oh, thank you, thank yeah.
You have to just tiptoe and do like all these
hushed whispers as opposed to just being like, yeah, life
is weird and messy, and sometimes it's okay to be
weird and messy, and it's funny that it's weird and messy.
How big of a difference do you think it made

(23:14):
to have Dan there to actually help you get through
it versus dealing with this runaway train of grief by yourself. Well,
I think it's I think there's a couple of things.
I think it's nice when somebody uh is able to
give voice to because it's a mirror for perhaps what
you are feeling, and it allows you to to express

(23:35):
the same thing. But I think the notion that like them,
I think in those circumstances when it is like around
laughing through pain, I think the thing that makes it
like um can be like really beautiful and such a release.
It is humor with kindness, you know. It is not
like it's not like the nineties kind of like sardonic, sarcastic,
like biting kind of humor, like the things that like

(23:57):
you know, are ubiquitous on Twitter. It's just like just
kind of like we're laughing, but it's like it's done
with an over arching umbrella of love behind this. And
I think I think that's what makes it UM successful.
I mean, I think it's any sort of mean spirited
ship just out the window. And I think that's like
a big thing, like getting back to like you turn
into a calcified mollusk, or you're more tender. I think

(24:19):
that's the biggest shift in me is like I think
I used to be a little bit more ecocentric and
a little bit more like sarcastic and a hell little
bit more bite to my jokes. And I think there's
just less of that now because it's like, yeah, man,
I got I got beat I got beat up, and
it could happen to any of us at any minute again,
So let's just lose. Let's just lose like some of
like the um the measuring sticks, and let go of

(24:43):
some of like the ego and the jealousy. And it's
still there, all that ship still there. You're still going
to complain about traffic. But it's like hopefully you remember
like a little bit that, like we're all in this
together in some capacity, But having gone through all of
those traumatic experiences, what would you say to the listener
who's still going through something about what it feels like
to find that healing and really get to the other side.

(25:05):
You know, I think I think that the notion of
like UH coming through it is a little bit of
a misnomer. Like I feel like I got through the illness,
and I got through the the the nascent days of
mourning of both the relationship and UH and UH death UM,

(25:27):
and I think there is like strengthen that, like I
remember there was a point in time where like when
I was ninety pounds or whatever. I still feel like
I am the strongest motherfucker alive because I'm getting through
all of this. But I feel like, uh, all of
those things are evolving, Like to what I was saying earlier,
like a story just doesn't have an end point, like yes,
I I am no longer knock on wood sick, and

(25:49):
I am through the pain of um a bunch of loss,
but it doesn't mean that it's not over, you know,
like my um you know, I lost a lot my
mom of six years ago, I guess, and I still
feel like that relationship is continually evolving because like now
like I will be thirty nine, Wolf, I'll be thirty

(26:11):
nine in like a month, and like that, just like
it now allows me to see like what I have
now the perspective, like what was she going through at
that same age? You carry all these things, these like
these scar tissues that I think that you develop over
the years that at one point, like I have literal
scars from all these operations, and at one point they
were like early on they were I was very self

(26:33):
conscious about them and felt like weird. And now it's
just like I don't even think about it and it's
like and if anything, it's a point of pride because
it's like a merit badge of like a boy scout,
Like look at all these things that I earned, And
these are the things that I think make me interesting
and make me, for lack of a better word, like
make me special. They are the things that uniquely make
me me am. I over them now because they're always

(26:54):
like it's always evolving and it's like I have I
have this this puppy I spoke earlier. I yeah, yeah,
I rescued her, like surely before all this ship went down. Like,
having like a puppy and quarantine is a little bit wild,
especially two weeks ago that puppy had a U T.
I Jesus Chris, a fucking puppy with a U T. I.
Like I had to pee like every thirty seconds. It

(27:16):
was a rough like four D eight hours. But she's
like wonderful, and she's teething, which drives me nuts. But
she has like a bum leg and it's like a
birth defect, and you know, I want to a bunch
of specialists, and they're just all kind of like across
the board, like you just get rid of the leg
because it's gonna mess up her spine in the long run.
And it's also should be more mobile because it just
kind of like it doesn't do much. She used it

(27:36):
for support sometimes. The point of this is that she
is going taking her tomorrow morning to get it amputated.
And it's even though like I know it'll be better
for her, it's still like it's my buddy. But more
than anything, it's like so I realized because I got
this news like this morning that it's like so triggering
for me to like think about how to go to

(27:59):
a hospital and move a major part of your body,
like that is like that is something that happened to
me eight years ago. But just like having to do
this for my little friend, like it just flattens time
and makes me feel like, yes, I'm through that, but
it's still like in me and just like getting emotional now,
just like talking about like the same thing. It's just
like that. It's it just you know, like in the

(28:19):
way that you hear a song and it takes you
back to like when you were in middle school and
you remember in some high school dance like into the
Road or whatever the funk. It just like flattens time.
But it did the same thing for me. As soon
as I like I realized I didn't have to do
this thing tomorrow morning, it reminded me of eight years
ago getting up at five in the morning driving to Glendale,
which nobody wants to do at five in the morning,
to like do my operation. So it's like these things

(28:40):
are like always in you and they're always existing. I
think the notion of like I'm over it, it's kind
of true, but it's just it's also like you're doing
anything it disservice to recognize, like, well, I dealt with
that and I moved on. I think that's I think
that's absolutely beautiful. I mean, I think, well, one, what's
your puppies name? Jenny's very sweet? Well, Jenny is is

(29:02):
And like you had just typed in, Karen, Jenny is
the luckiest little puppy that she has a dad like you.
And and I am currently praying hope when by the
time that everybody hears this podcast, she's going to be
the fastest three legged dog I've ever seen on but um,
but right now, I'm praying that she has a very successful,
quick and painless process. And honestly, dude, thank you so

(29:24):
much for coming on my show, meeting me for virtually
the first time, and uh and and being so open
and talking through this. For me especially, I see somebody
who's dealt with loads of stuff and not that any
but not that it's a ever a contest of who's
dealt with more ship, but seeing somebody who's dealt with

(29:44):
a lot of ship and made the life that they've
made and been a light for other people as you've
been through your friends and family all the way to
people who watched the shows that you write on UM
and seeing that process from A to Z that you
I've been through, how you come out of, how you've
you consistently still battle your your problems that every human

(30:08):
being has, as well as the problems that are completely
unique to yourself. I just I really do appreciate UM
that you came on and you are so open with me. Man.
Thank you, Oh for sure. Man. I mean I years
ago when I felt like a little bit a little
rudderless and feel like I needed an outlet like I
similar to this, like started a podcast where it was
just like talking to other funny people about terrible things

(30:28):
that have happened to them. And I just learned through that,
just like just being open and vulnerable and just everybody's
got like when I said earlier, like everybody's got, everybody's
has the same ship, just dressed up differently. Like everybody
has something. It's just a different set of circumstances and
they may all be like some of them may just
be like first world problems, but they still break your
heart and it's still a unifying thing. So I think

(30:48):
just being open and vulnerable about it makes us all
feel less alone. Oh Man, absolutely, And I'm gonna need
the name of this podcast because it sounds like something
that I'm absolutely wanting to listen to right now. So
we're gonna take a quick break. When we come back,
I'm gonna be speaking with Karen about humor as therapy.
Don't go anywhere, what's of friends? It's Alex. We are back.
I just had an amazing conversation with Steve basilone, but

(31:12):
now I'm here talking to one of my really really
good friends, Karen Erlickman. Um. She's also a therapist, and so,
Karen as a therapist, do you have a psychiatric explanation
for why we turn pain into humor? Absolutely. There's a
category of behaviors or coping strategies if you want to
call it, that called defense mechanisms. So that's kind of

(31:34):
the I'm making little air quotes here, like the official
term um for things we say and do that help. Um.
We defend ourselves, right, We protect ourselves by doing these things,
and sometimes they're healthy and sometimes they're unhealthy, depending on
like how old we are and what the situation is.
And humor is one of those defense mechanisms or coping strategies.

(31:58):
M hmm. Okay, So what what is it? I guess,
like you had said this, it is a defense mechanism.
But what actually happens when you're laughing, like in your brain? Like,
what is the process that actually makes it easier to
deal with problems? Well? I wish I were a neurologist
so I could tell you, like exactly what part of

(32:19):
the brain lights up when we laugh? But I do
know that we release certain hormones and u biochemical mechanisms
get activated when we have laughter. Like laughter and humor
are not just something that we say or think, but
like the physical feeling, like if you've ever had that

(32:40):
feeling where you're laughing so hard where you feel like
you're gonna have to go to the emergency room where
you're just like you know, like your stomachs hurting or
your you know, your you sound like a goat or
you know whatever it is. Um, it's a very physiological thing.
And there is something about that release and you know,
like animals laugh, right, babies, grown ups, like you can

(33:02):
see it in other people and in yourself right, And
and like you said, not only even mentally, but physically
it also helps us. Laughter stimulates your organs, It positively
affects our breathing our oxygen intake. It brings more oxygen
into our lungs. Our heart actually starts to pump a

(33:22):
little more strongly. We breathe all of that oxygen and
energy into our muscles. It's a stress reliever, but literally
like releasing the stress, like our body relaxes into that.
The stress response is a natural system in our body.
I sort of think of it like a washing machine.

(33:42):
It's like you turn the wash cycle on and then
you cycle through to completion. Right, there is something that
happens where you're like literally cleaning yourself out when you're
you know, crying is similar, but it's not as fun.
Where you have that sense of kind of being cleared
out and cleaned out and your circulate shan is increased,
and you know, your your spine relaxes and like all

(34:05):
of those things happen. Like how many people have googled
laughing baby videos? Yeah, babies are the best. Laughing babies
are top tier laughers. Yeah, how is that for you?
Uncle Alex, Uncle's man. Uncle Alex just loves it. There's
nothing better than making my niece laugh. Um, And you mentioned,
like you said, so many physical things that happened positively,
so many mental things that happened positively when you're laughing,

(34:27):
especially when dealing with trauma. But I also know that
there is a line that can be crossed over that
Steve actually mentioned a little bit where you can almost
uh laugh too much, or or you can try and
search for too much humor when dealing with trauma. Can
you can you speak on that on how humor can
become harmful? Right? Well? Sometimes so it's one thing to

(34:48):
laugh at yourself, right so where we have actually control
over it, like to use humor at to cope with
our own suffering. Right when someone makes an inappropriate joke
to us about our own suffering. Depending on who that
person is and what they say, it can either be
very comforting or it can actually be quite painful. So

(35:10):
some of it is depending on the context. Um and
or somebody can say like I'd I'd love to cheer
you up, you know, like to ask somebody like, you know,
how can I support you? And sometimes you do want
to be cheered up or comforted by having somebody tell
you jokes or you know, make light of things, or

(35:32):
you know, make funny faces or what have you. So
I think some of it has to do with whether
it's wanted or unwanted and who it's coming from. But
I think even more so, UM, I'll rephrase my question,
which is, if you're only searching for humor, you're not
actually allowing yourself. Um. That's something that Steve and I
had spoke about a little bit, because in my mind,

(35:53):
I go, yeah, yeah, just laugh laugh laugh, laugh, laugh,
and Steve was like, no, not necessarily, because you can
really you can make laughing a running away, um, defense mechanism,
not a healing mechanism, And so I wanted to see
how you felt about that. So if if humor is
used as a form of denial or avoidance in a

(36:17):
way where we're actually stuffing down painful feelings rather than
releasing painful feelings, then I think it can be detrimental.
And I don't think that there's like a formula like
you should have like seriousness and laughter, like, I think
it's different for everybody, but I think there are some

(36:40):
ways where you can imagine somebody being like, well what
are you gonna do? Where you can tell when somebody's
It kind of goes back to our earlier episode about
like when a friend is suffering, what should you do? Like,
it's not just about yourself, but if like someone you
care about is going through something hard and every time
you try to talk to them about it, they make
a joke about at it, there might be a certain

(37:01):
point where you say, dude, you know, I noticed that
you keep avoiding this painful topic by making jokes about it.
What's up with that? Like, sometimes you need to say
something like that or you need somebody to say it
to you. That's a that's a tough conversation to have.
That is a definitely not an easy one to have. Um.
But like you are mentioning now and you mentioned earlier

(37:22):
initiating the humor and the space in which humor is
invited to dealing with trauma as a therapist, what's your
advice for somebody who's really going through it and I
know that they could use a good laugh? How can
I get that right? Well, it's sort of like when
somebody says they need a good cry, you know, where
you have like this feeling of like this pressure that's

(37:44):
built up in you and you feel like I just
need to get this out. So I'm I'm gonna go
like watch beaches or you know what, I can't remember
what the movie was that ste you've mentioned earlier, but
you know, or I need a good laugh, especially when
you're going through something like a lass or a traumatic
event or an illness or whatever, when you think like
I actually don't remember the last time that I had

(38:06):
a good laugh, And so that's a little different than
the kind of defensive humor, but like actually seeking out
opportunities like I need to go see some stand up comedy,
or like right after nine eleven we went and saw
Steve Harvey do stand up, Like literally, it was like
four days later or something. We had bought the tickets,

(38:28):
and it was like exactly what I needed. It wasn't
only like have a little bit of escape, because he
actually did talk about the tragedy of nine eleven, but
also like I needed to laugh so badly and it
was such good medicine. Oh man, I can't tell you
how good like a good stand up happens when I

(38:48):
you know, when I watch a good stand up after
a long day of just being stressed, or like you said,
when something really really serious happens, and that first laugh
afterwards where you're like, oh and I needed that. I've
had that a couple of times, even during quarantine, where
I am just stressed out of my mind and I'm
like dude, and then you watch like a stand up
or you watch, you know, an episode of I Think

(39:10):
you should leave, or you watch an episode of an
old Saturday Night Live not a new one, um, and uh,
and you just you kind of remember like, Okay, life
isn't that bad. I just needed a good laugh, or
life is that bad, but this laughter is going to
help me get through it, or you know, like you said,
all of the mental and physical things that that are

(39:32):
positively working when you're laughing through that trauma. Sometimes you
just need to feel it and then you go, oh
my gosh, I need some more of that. I need
a little bit more of that. I want to actually
just talk to you now though, as as a friend,
even though many don't believe it, you are a human being.
You are not You're a pure ball of light and

(39:52):
energy who has gone through your own different traumatic experiences.
Do you want to talk maybe a little bit about that,
just so maybe there's a listener out it that can
really relate to it. Sure. Absolutely so. About three and
a half years ago, I lost my mom and it
was a huge loss. She was an amazing person, and

(40:12):
you met my mom. It was I've certainly have had
other people I've loved and cared about friends and relatives
who have died, but this was my mom. And I
remember thinking before, even before she got sick, like, I
wonder what it's going to be like when my parents die,
Like all of my training and all my experience with
grief and supporting other people, like I don't think there's

(40:35):
anything that can emotionally prepare me for this, Like I
had had that conscious, rational thought, and then when she
did actually die, I was so unprepared, Like I knew
I would be sad, but I was shocked, like my
body went into shock. To say I was sad would
be an understatement, like I kept thinking about like when

(40:58):
animals lose a family men, or like if you own
multiple pets and one dies and the one that's left
grieves like it felt it felt that primitive to me,
like what my grief was like. And so it was
also right after the two thousand sixteen election, most of
the people in my life were really traumatized, and so
people were kind of checked out, so there was not

(41:21):
a lot of support there I'm just going to leave
it at that. And this is interesting. It's like so
unusual for me to talk about my own story because
it's like it's the cardinal role that therapist. But you know,
there is a way in which, like you're what you
said is true, Like I'm a human being, and anybody
who's gone to a therapist where they couldn't feel that

(41:41):
that person was actually a human being, Like that's not
a really good feeling. Like you want your therapist, like
when you're the client, it is all about you. You
don't want your therapist to talk about your problems, but
you want to feel like the warmth of genuine empathy
and compassion that comes with a therapist who actually like
had their own lived experience. So it's kind of in

(42:02):
the spirit of that that I'll share this. So I
actually got very physically ill as part of my grief process.
I could go to work, but I had these weird
like I had this very weird like head and neck
pain where I I couldn't go hiking, and as you know,
I live near the beach and I love to go hiking.
I literally couldn't walk like more than two fet without

(42:23):
like falling over. I had all this weird pain. I
had to go get brain scans and go to all
these doctors, and they were worried I had a brain
tumor and like all this crazy ship. And so I
would go to the gym and sit on the stationary
bike and I would literally like have to keep my head,
my neck and my torso like completely still. And I
would be listening to comedy podcasts and peddling like a maniac,

(42:47):
and I'm like laughing and crying and all this stuff.
And um, Eventually I saw a doctor who diagnosed me
with a typical migraines, which basically means we have no
idea what the funk is wrong with your nervous system,
so we're just going to call it a typical migraines.
But I one of those uh comedy podcasts that I
listened to was coming to San Francisco to perform in June.

(43:11):
So I was in that state for like three months,
like where I was like that where I literally like
I couldn't walk, I had all this pain blah blah blah.
So a friend of mine bought me a ticket to
the comedy show, so, um, we went to the show.
I had to like go in the theater and the
dark an hour early and sit there quietly to kind
of quiet my nervous system. And the comedian came out,

(43:34):
and literally, for like two hours, I was laughing so hard.
I was tears were streaming down my face. I was
like the embarrassing, snorting, laughing person in the audience, you know,
Like I was just laughing so hard. And literally the
next day I woke up and I was like better physically.
And my my first reaction actually was like, oh man,

(43:57):
people are going to tell me now that this was
quote all in my head. Like I felt self conscious,
like as if what I had experienced wasn't real. But
so I went back to the doctor and told him
the story, and he said, oh, yeah, we have data
going back to the Marx Brothers about how laughter can
reset your nervous system and how good it is for

(44:19):
all your organs and it gets your circulation restarted. And
I said, well, why didn't you prescribe comedy for me?
This is literally the conversation I had. I said, why
didn't you prescribe comedy for me instead of that horrible
medicine you gave me? And he was like, oh, I
never thought of that, and I said, I hope you
remember this conversation for the rest of your career. Like
I literally was like I'm pointing my finger. I was literally,

(44:41):
So the end of this story and then I'm going
to take a pause is that I Internet stalked that
comedian until I could find an email address for her producer,
and I sent her an email told her the whole story,
like my mom died blah blah blah, and I went
to see your show and now I feel so much better.
And I just want you to know how how much
you your work means to me, and thank you. And

(45:03):
she actually emailed me back and sent me like the
nicest email. And then she came to San Francisco to
do a book reading because she has a book out,
and so I baked her cookies and I have pictures
which I can give you if you want to put
them up on the website. I have pictures of that.
It was Phoebe Robinson from Queens. What a beautiful ending
to that. I mean, you and Steve are both incredible,

(45:27):
incredible examples of how you dealt with something and humor
really became just a path to light, to being able
to see the sun. Like on a hot day when
the sun comes down and beats on your face. Karen,
thank you for stepping out of the therapists you know,
share and being my friend and talking to me about that.
We're gonna take a quick break when we come back.

(45:48):
We're going to talk a little bit about how both
Karen and Steve have mentioned the involvement of friends in
their traumatic experiences and how that really helped them get
through or or start working through the traumatic experiences in
their life. We'll be right back. Welcome back to let's
get into it. I'm Alex Ciono, and we are talking
with Karen Erlickman and Steve Basilone. Both of you have

(46:11):
given me an amazing insight into finding humor and finding
light while dealing with traumatic experiences. For all three of us,
in a traumatic experience, we have all had somebody that's
there for us to help make us laugh or or
lighten the load, or give us a path to looking
towards light. And I want to talk about that kind
of for a little bit. Um. Steve, you had mentioned

(46:33):
that in the middle of a very very elephant in
the room type of situation, you had a friend who
just laid it out on the table. Knew you guys
so well, knew knew everybody involved in the in the
experience that he could step out into maybe a little
bit of something that might not have felt super comfortable
for even him, but he did and it made it
a lot lighter. And Karen the same for you. Your

(46:54):
friend bought you a ticket to a comedy show, which
I'm sure you maybe at the time, we're like funk
that I don't want to do a condo to go
to the comedy show, like my mom my mom just passed. UM.
So I want to ask you both, knowing that that's happened,
how do you guys try to be better friends or
be the best friend you can be? Um, When you
see a friend who is dealing with a traumatic experience,
I think that I took away from all of those

(47:16):
kind of tumultuous times, and I think that is I
think hopefully made me a better friend. Is just trying
to be consistent because I feel like, you know, it's
very easy to show up for the big event when
when there is an operation, when there is like a
loss of a family member, when there is a breakup,

(47:36):
because that's like when it is for lack of better words,
like when it's when it's when it's juicy, when it's delicious,
you know, like that's when you're reminded of like, oh
I should, I should show up now, and that's and
that is worth its weight in gold. But I feel
like the times that are more difficult, and I think
that I was more appreciative are the people that continually
checked in, like that checked in two weeks later, a
month later, three months later, five months later. Because you know,

(47:58):
it's nobody's fault, but we all have our own lives
and we get back to those lives, so it's you know,
we tend to forget that like while oh right, it's
not in our direct line of vision, it's still all
encompassing for whoever is going through the tough time. So
while it may not be like in the zeitgeist anymore,

(48:18):
it's still a big facet of their life. That elephant,
to use your words, is still very much in that room.
Like I have a friend of mine who went through
is going to like a split up in a divorce,
like two months before she gave birth to a baby,
and she just gave birth to this baby a week ago,
and that's like a very difficult time, especially in quarantine.
She had to have a baby alone in a room,

(48:39):
without a partner, without any family. And you know, I've
just been trying to like check in continually. And it
might just be like a hey, how are you. It
might be like a dumb joke, it might be whatever,
But just to continually just be like, hello, I'm here.
I think that is the thing that I've I learned
that I think hopefully makes me a better friend is
is just to be constant. M hm. Well, one of

(49:03):
the things I learned because my experience, unfortunately was that
people really did not show up for me after my
mom died. Now partly as I said they were. I
think people were so freaked out by the election and
it was over the holidays, and like all the reasons
that people like didn't call and didn't bring chicken soup

(49:23):
and didn't do all of those things. Not because I
don't have people in my life who love me, because
I do, and I feel really grateful for that. But
I realized that in some ways I'm like that strong
friend that people don't feel like they have to check
up on and over time, not right away, but like
in the last couple of years. Kind of to your point, Steve,

(49:44):
about how we keep working through these things over time.
I thought, you know, I think that I, especially as
a therapist, have a public persona that's like, I'm fine,
I got this, I can handle it. I'm the person
who shows up for everybody else. And so I realized
I have to actually be a better communicator about saying like,

(50:05):
will you please check up on me? Will you text me?
Will you like bring soup over to my house? Will
you like, my mom's been dead almost four years, you
can still bring soup to my house. It's not too late.
And and that going through that experience also made me
the friend who will then like leave a message for
somebody that says, you don't have to call me back

(50:26):
if you don't feel like it. I just want you
to know that I'm thinking of you, because I don't
want you to have to feel obligated like, oh man,
now I have to actually go return this phone call
or send a text back, like, don't fucking text me
back if you don't feel like it. I just want
you to know I love you and I'm here for you.
That's that's actually perfect. I want to talk about that
because I think patients is something that really comes into
play when being a good friend. And like you had said, Karen,

(50:48):
we've we did a whole episode about being there for
your friends when they're having a hard time. It's not
about oh it's my time, here we go. I got
to go make sure they're okay. And the amount of
friends that I've had check in on me through this
quarantine has been insane, And it's really pushed me to
check in on all of my friends because I know
that everybody we're all in different walks of life. The

(51:10):
patients that it takes to really be there for your
friends and traumatic experiences, I think it is something big,
like you had mentioned, Karen, stepping in and saying, Hey,
you don't have to call me back. I just want
you to know I'm here with you. Um I I
care about you, I love you. If you need anything,
let me know. I love that. What do you guys think? Well,
I want to say that there's also like no expiration

(51:33):
date on kindness, you know, so like even if a
friend has gone through something that happened a long time ago,
you can always like just send them a text or
actually old school like mail them a card or send
them flowers or whatever and just say like, Hey, I
just want you to know I care about you, I'm

(51:54):
here for you. Whatever it is, like there is no
expiration date. Yeah, I think absolutely. And I think that's
the same the same as true of that, or or
forgiveness or anything that's there's no expert it's never too
late to to show up for somebody. Um. But the
other thing I kind of recognized while going through a
bunch of stuff is like to not take things personally.

(52:15):
I think the thing that you said, Karen is is wonderful,
just like it's okay if they're not in a space
to want to talk about or get back to you,
that is fine. Don't take that personally. And then the inverse,
I think to provide them a space to be like,
I'm just here if you ever need it. That's all
I want you to know. But I also learned like
the inverses, like, don't take it personally when people don't
have the tools to deal with what you're going through.

(52:38):
I think there was a couple of friends that I
initially felt like hurt by that they were not there
in the capacities that I needed them or I wanted them,
But then I just recognized, like, Okay, that's just a
facet of their personality and their friendship that that is
not going to be a thing that's not gonna be
fulfilled in this friendship. That doesn't mean it's a bad friendship.

(52:59):
It doesn't have out you, it doesn't mean that they're
like a bad person. It's just like I just don't
count on them for that specific thing. And I think
that is once you like kind of recognize that, you
can have a more successful friendship if you recognize, like,
these people are very satisfying and very warm when I
need emotional support. These people are great when I need
just like a good time and a Bonker's night. You know,

(53:22):
Like people different people satisfy different things in the same way.
They're like, you know, I want one Harry met Sally,
or I want beaches. You know. It's just like that
whatever you're in the mood for it. So like, there's
different facets to people's personality and to not take that
personally if people don't have the tools to always meet
every one of your needs, because somebody will invariably and
because you're not gonna have the tools to deal to
meet every one of your friends needs. So I think

(53:44):
if you just take any sort of umbradge out of
the equation, if you take taking it personally, have the equations,
it's just going to be more successful in general and
more healing process. I feel like by the end of
this episode, we're gonna have a sponsorship from the movie Beaches. Yeah,
so Steve, thanks for bringing that. Thanks for bringing those
those sponsorship dollars. Getting sky hot. They gotta have a
lot of money left in their marketing campaign, their marketing fund.

(54:08):
Their marketing fund is a super bringing up no, but
I definitely agree with you being able to compartmentalize the Okay,
when I'm dealing with this, I can count on a
friend through this, and when I'm dealing with this, I
can count on a friend for this. So I'm going
to direct this one to Steve as somebody who's going
through the thing. How does a friend know when it's
time to start bringing in the humor. I think it

(54:30):
just just follows someone's lead. I think um for me,
like I am always ready to laugh, as you know.
I I think it is a little bit of deflection,
but it's also processing because it's there's you know, to
Karen's point, there is like Catharsis in the laughter and
the tears, it's release, it's all fulfilling serotonin levels and

(54:51):
it's releasing dopamine and all these things that are healing
to your to you know, physiologically, but also just emotionally.
I don't know. I think it's just a long with
like being consistent, just like to your point, just showing
up and like being aware that I just occupying whatever
space that they need. I think I think it's helpful
if you can just kind of like normalize it, Like

(55:11):
the tiptoeing on eggshells. I think that will drive sometimes
people crazy. Um. I know, like a good friend of mine,
you know, lost her dad in a pretty traumatic way
and just the like the after a while, like the sympathy,
the very sad sympathy, like how are you Like after
a while, just got like she just want to pull
her hair out because it's just like can we just

(55:33):
not fun? Can we just like talk about it like
I'm not a child, Like it's like, oh you've got
a boo boo, And it's just like it feels like
there's infantilizing because people don't know how to occupy that space.
So I think just like oftentimes just not treating it differently,
Like giving it gravity, gravity and giving it the the
kind of um importance that it merits is very important.

(55:54):
But just to like also just like recognize, like this
is just a facet of life. Guess what, We're all
gonna fucking die, We're all going to have bad ship.
It's just like it's your time and you're going through
it and that sucks. But we'll just talk about it
normally and if that's you know, I think that that
that's helpful as opposed to wearing the kid gloves. Sometimes

(56:15):
it's a mixture of letting the dealer of the pain
take the lead and being like, okay, cool, he wants
to laugh about it. But at the same time, I
totally get it when somebody comes and they go, oh
my gosh, are you okay? Do you need anything? And
I'm like, I need you to stop fucking treating me
like I'm like a kid, Like I just want somebody
to make me feel normal, because I feel like in
traumatic experiences that's when I crave something just regular. Um.

(56:40):
I have one last question for both of you, a
quick question, quick answer. After everything that we've talked about today,
do you guys feel like it should be the end
goal for a human being to be able to laugh
at their pain. I think being able to look at
it without just a sense of heaviness and a sense
of just bringing you down. I think that's the goal.

(57:03):
Just to process it in whatever capacity, if it's if
it's laughter, and if you're able to laugh at it,
I think that's fantastic. That works for me, and I
would suggest that everybody. If you can get to that place,
that's great. But I think just in general, the goal
should be just to be able to process it and
learn from it. I would say the goal is to
be able to not necessarily laugh at your pain, but

(57:24):
to laugh through your pain, so that you can have
both laughter and pain coexist. Um, whether that's about death
or illness or global pandemic or whatever that suffering might be,
that we have the capacity to laugh even in the
midst of that suffering. M zing zing that's it, period,

(57:46):
exclamation point, print it, send it off. Thank you both
so much for for bringing your your stories, your energy,
your wisdom, your knowledge. I really do appreciate you both.
I'm excited for us all to laugh about um whatever
pain I go through next. But I want to take
some time. I know there's a lot going on for
you right now, so I want to take some time.
I call it shameless promo. Uh and and I want

(58:09):
you to just plug it all social media. What's coming next?
The film, the show's everything? Go? Uh what I'm I mean?
I mentioned a podcast, I'm not really I haven't done
it for a while because it's purely a hobby and
it got to a place where it started to feel
like work. So now I only do it when it
feels good. But it's called terribly Funny. I think right
now is maybe a good time to check it out
because it's all things we're talking about, because it's people

(58:31):
just like how they found the humor and the truly
terrible things that happened to them. Check that out if
you want. Eventually, I'm finishing up a movie Code Long
Weekend that that'll be out at some point. It's got
a stupid amazing cast with like Finn whit Rock and
Zoe Chow and Damon Wayne's Jr. And Casey Wilson, and
it's I think really it speaks to all the things

(58:52):
we're talking about. It's a lot of emo, you know,
naval gazing ship, but finding like a lot of optimism
in spite of optimism and romance in spite of you know,
life sometimes being really terrible. So that's that's what I got.
And also I'm working on a show indebt It on
NBC is my Buddy Dance show. If that comes back
for a second season, watch that ship. That's it. Shoutouts
to Dan Dan and where can where can do people

(59:15):
find you? On social media? Um? I I guess I'm
on Twitter or not much, but it's just s Basilon
on Twitter and my Instagram is also s Basilon. I
am moderately. If you want to keep up with Steve,
you gotta you gotta you gotta be, you gotta be
wildly involved with his moderately involved social media and wildly
involved with his wildly involved TV shows and movies. I

(59:35):
love it, Steve. Karen, You're used to this. Give me
the not so shameless promo. Okay. You can find me
on Instagram and Twitter at k e replenish or my
website is Karen Erlikman dot com. WHOA. Well, guys, thank
you so much for being on the show and listeners,
thank you so much for listening. You know you can

(59:56):
find me at alex Iono pretty much everywhere. It's the
Beauty of a weird last name and I love you all.
Let's get into it. This is another episode We'll see
you next time piece. Yo, what's up. It's Alex from
the future. We recorded this episode a little bit ago,
so I want to give you an update on Jenny
the Dog. For all you dog lovers out there, Jenny

(01:00:17):
surgery was super successful. Jenny is perfect now. She's just
the same perfect angel that you want her to be. Um.
If you want to stay updated with her, you can
go and check her out on Instagram at I'm Jenny
the Dog. Go and give her some big love and
tell her that we sent you here from Let's get
into it. I love you guys. We really want you

(01:00:40):
to get the help you need, so if you need help,
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Listening to the podcast does not establish doctor patient relationship

(01:01:02):
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if that's a doozy