Instagram Isn't Real with MAX + Elizabeth Su

In the double-episode season finale of Let's Get Into It, Alex Aiono digs into the cultural and personal impact of Instagram. Singer-Songwriter + pop hitmaker MAX (Blueberry Eyes feat. SUGA of BTS) and Self-Care Expert Elizabeth Su join Alex to talk about the good, bad and the ugly of social media. Has Instagram changed the very nature of friendship? How do you enjoy reality when reality online is totally altered - and maybe better? Can we get back to normal, and do we even want to? In this special double-episode finale, you'll get the answers to your burning social media questions (and maybe you won't have to stop scrolling after all).

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Alex, and sometimes I absolutely hate social media.
Nor no, al right, will be alright forever, No, be alright, alright,
we'll be alrights ever, what is up, y'all? You thought

(00:25):
we were done, We're not. We never die. We are
here right now. We had to do an extra episode
because the way that we do this podcast, um, is
that I get to talk to Catherine, who shout outs
to Catherine as we end this season, like just absolutely
fantastic and work so hard on this podcast, Like you're
you're just absolutely I know you can hear me right now,
and you're gonna have to edit this and you can't

(00:45):
cut this out. I'm not gonna let you. But you're
absolutely fantastic, um. And and it's just so much fun.
But we just talk about what we want to talk about.
So we're like, you know what, let's give him a
bonus episode. And this episode is going to be talking
about Instagram. And I want to preface this whole thing
because I'm very, very ucky that I that I've been
able to build an amazing group of people who support
this journey that I'm on, especially on Instagram. UM, So

(01:08):
I don't want this to be me kind of looking
this gift horse in the mouth and and just pretending
that it's not an awesome thing that can be used
in an amazing way. But I think it was very
important to me and to Catherine to talk about the
reality of the negative aspects of social media, especially Instagram.
I will be the first one on this podcast to

(01:30):
say I'm gonna I'm just gonna come out and say it.
I face tuned my photos sometimes I still do. I
still do to this day if I have like a
big pimple on my forehead, or if I feel a
little bit bloated or this or that, and I do it.
And it's the worst thing because I don't know what
makes me do it. But everybody that I talked to
also does it, and we all do it. And it

(01:51):
was just one of those things where I just remember
thinking about it and being like, Yo, that's not that's
not right, right, Like we're not all just faking what
we look like because one person did it or one
person actually looks like that, so we all have to
try and fake our way there. And that's just one
aspect of it, you know. I I see people who
I know flexing this this a brand new car or

(02:15):
a brand new watch, or you see people who I
know aren't necessarily in the happiest relationship posting about how
amazing their their relationship is. And I think it's not
about telling everybody exactly what's going on. But I think
that we've reached a certain level, especially in the last
few years, of just over over hyping what's going on

(02:36):
and not talking about the reality of things. I actually
one of the through lines of this last year, especially
with with everything going on in society, one of my
through lines that I saw was that it did get
real for a second, got very real for a second.
I think it kind of shed a light on the
idea that we can be real, that we can stand
up for what we believe in, and we can be
who we really are, and we can talk about all

(02:58):
of that. I have some amazing guests on today and
we're gonna get into them for a bit. But first
I just I couldn't stop but think, is anything on
Instagram real? What is up? This is? Let's get into it.
I'm alex I O no, this is my podcast. This
is the last. This is I promised the actual last, Like,
we're not doing another encore after this. This is the end.

(03:19):
The final and we're talking about Instagram and its effects
on reality, how Instagram changes reality. And I have to
absolutely fantastic guests on here today. One of them is
I I. We have the craziest story that we're gonna
get into of how we know each other or the
way that we actually ended up connecting with each other.
He is an absolutely phenomenal artist. The the idea of

(03:43):
a journeyman, a man that I know, is proof that
good people in the industry when that you can be happy,
You can have the American dream of a life with
a beautiful wife and a beautiful child. Just became a
dad this last year, so many amazing things, releases, brand
new single Blueberry Eyes, dropped a remix of it. Everything
you might know him. My favorite song of his is

(04:05):
still Lights Down Low. I know it's I know it's
corny to say, but he is one of my favorite artists.
And he also sent me a Rubik's Cube if you
know I love Rubik's Cubes. And he's got He's just
got the best march in the game. He is my friend,
and I'm so happy to say that he's my friend.
The one and only Max. What's up man? That's so
happy to be on the podcast. Thanks for dude. I'm

(04:25):
so happy that you're here and and you of all
people you know, like I mentioned, not only just in
the social media around, but you understand the journey, you know,
you understand what it takes to be an artist, all
of the good, all of the bad, all of the ugly.
So I'm excited that we get to jump into it.
Also with us, I have a writer, a perfectionism expert.

(04:45):
I had never heard of this term, and it's so cool.
A perfectionism expert. The founder of Monday Vibes, which is
a personal growth newsletter and a network for women UM.
She studied burnout and perfectionism at Columbia University. If you
don't know what that is, major school UM, and if
you don't know what that is, you probably won't get
there UM and is currently working on her first book

(05:07):
right now, The One and Only Elizabeth Sue. How are you?
I'm so good. Thank you for having me. Oh, thank
you for being here. I mean, I think it's what
I love about this setup. And again, Catherine, love you
to death, because you really set this up perfectly. As
we have somebody who's an expert on this exact topic
that we're talking about, and you have two people, including myself,
who are living it like still to this day, are

(05:28):
living it. So we're gonna be getting into some sick topics,
first one being that Instagram isn't real, uh. The sec
what topic is going to be that we're just consumed
by our screens. And last, but not least, we're gonna
be all talking together about taking the control back into
our own hands. But before we get into that, I
have a question that I ask every single one of
my guests. This is the last time that I get
to ask this question for the season, and I think

(05:50):
next season we'll have a new question because we've gotten
a ton of different answers. That question is what have
you been doing this week to improve yourself, your life?
You know anything? There's I one time I talked about
how I built a garden. Another time how I talked
about how I let myself eat a doughnut every day
for a week. So we've done there. No answer is
off as off limits. I would say for me, the

(06:10):
biggest thing that I've been doing is it's something that
I used to do all the time and then I
stopped doing it for a while. It's making my bed
in the morning. And I remember watching this like old
I don't know if it was a Ted talk or
it was like a speech about and this like this
military vet. It was talking about when you meet you know,
when you make your bed in the morning, you have
a calm, You start your day by accomplishing something, and
it sets you on the right path. It also reminds

(06:32):
me that I'm not allowed to get back in bed
until it's bedtime, because if I'm especially staying in a
hotel right now, I look at that bed and I'm like, damn,
that ship looks just phenomenal right now. So I've been
making my bed. That's something that I've been doing and
uh and and it's always good to get back on
track to stuff, especially for me. I'm very much so
a systems person and uh and so having my bed

(06:53):
made and clean reminds me that that's also how I am.
I am well made, I'm clean, and I'm ready for whatever.
That's what I've been doing. Max, you got something for me.
You'd get along with my wife really well. She she
I lost a bed to her and I had to
make the bed all week the way that she likes
to do it, which is very military style, touch the
front into the into the full house like full housekeeper.

(07:15):
Oh yeah, she's like two pillows on the top. That
wasn't right, she would she would got She got upset
with me because I put the two pillows behind the
blanket instead of over the blanket. So but I felt
I did feel accomplished. That's a good one. I tried
to do a no phone day with the family on
the weekends, like a Saturday, and I did it on Saturday,
and we took a trip. We brought our baby at
the beach for the first time, and she like felt

(07:36):
the way, Oh my god, cute. And I think I
realized how And it's funny with this episode, I realized
how attached I am. I always do when I do this,
because I just I actually give the phone to Emily
and she hides it somewhere in the house so I
have no idea where it is, and then we leave
and it was the drive back because we're listening to
music stuff. It was the drive back where her friend
was in the front and she was on her phone

(07:57):
and I and I felt it. I was like, oh,
I wish I had my phone right now. I would
be able to put when you don't have it, you
both realize you know how you use it. But also
I definitely feel more present. I was looking out at
the you know, driving on the pc H and I'm
looking at the waves when I probably would have been
on my phone, and it definitely puts things perspective. Absolutely.
There you go that we're we're we're already here. We're

(08:18):
talking about the topic. Elizabeth, what have you been doing
this week to improve yourself? I love that example. I
both of your examples. I've been reflecting a lot on
getting better at relaxing and both the physical sense of
not needing to be busy and productive all the time,
but also in the spiritual sense of just letting go

(08:38):
of control and trusting that things will work out the
way that they're supposed to. And both of those aspects
are very difficult for me. Yeah, I can get behind it. Well,
I'm glad that we're talking about it then today, because
we're literally gonna figure out how to fix it, or
at least take the right steps in the right direction.
So Max, you and I were going to go one
on one first. Elizabeth, you can take a break and

(09:00):
we'll be with you in Justice sec. So again, Max,
because we're about to get into and I want you
to be able to be free to talk about how
bad of a phone addict you are, because I'm going
to talk about it myself. I want to start by
talking about how really truly, like incredible of a person
Max is. Max met my dad I was I couldn't

(09:22):
have been more than twelve or thirteen years old. And
my dad, if you don't, you've heard him on the podcast.
If you haven't, go check out that episode. My dad
is talkative and we'll always talk to anybody, especially if
he sees especially if he sees a musical instrument of
any kind. But my dad sat next to Max on
an airplane and Max had had a kalle in like

(09:44):
he was traveling with one, and um, I don't remember
the converse. You probably remember the conversation better. But that's
what exactly what makes me just it reminds me all
the time of how just a good of a person
Max is. Uh. He had this conversation was when I
was I was probably like twelve, and I remember my
dad was like, I met this guy and he's on
a he's on a TV show and he's awesome and
you should be like him and Dada da da, And

(10:05):
I was just like, all right, cool. I met Max
then for the first time. I don't remember. I just
remember your meeting your dad. I don't remember where we
met for the first time. Though I was twenty, I
was like twenty years old. This was eight years later
and I met I met Max, and I was like,
I think my dad sat with you on an airplane
and no, Lie he goes was his name? Martin, like

(10:25):
full blown remembers my dad. And it was a conversation
on an airplane. I've had so many conversations on an airplane.
And I couldn't tell you. I couldn't even tell you.
I couldn't point him out in the crowd if it
was if that happened, Like no, you could not convince
me that I had met somebody on an airplane, and
I just it was. It's still to this day so
special to me that that that is um. Also, if

(10:46):
you talk to anybody in the industry who has been
able to work with Max or Meat Max or No
Max or even c Max in concert, you will never
hear a bad thing about him. You're just like, I'm
just so happy that we got you here because you're
the epitome of good people do win in the end
like good people. If you're a good person, you know,
the character matters, you know what I mean. So I again,

(11:09):
I'm going to absolutely just light you up like the
star that you are on this podcast. Just man, thank you.
I appreciate you, baby, thank you for that being said,
not being said. Pick your poison, what's your What's what's
the social app that you're just addicted to? I mean,
it's all of them, for sure, but but I'd say
the one that's most toxic to me is Twitter. I'd

(11:30):
say Instagram. I get the most addicted to. I get
lost in it the most. I'll scroll through the most.
And then I tried, man, I tried to. When I'm
I haven't taken the deep dive to TikTok, I feel
like I am in the TikTok game. But when I
take the deep dive, it's almost as bad as Instagram.
But for some reason, I don't let myself go there.

(11:50):
But with Instagram, it's so comfortable that you know, It's
like I go to get a midnight snack and I
happen to have my phone, and that's the one I'm
turning to to just screw and then you can last
that one. Twitter, to me is hard to I think
Twitter is actually the hardest on my mental health because
it's so um. The people who are good at it

(12:13):
are fantastic at it and get insane likes and and
it's like one of those things where I feel, like
with Instagram, I know, at the end of the day,
if I if I decided to do like some thirst
trappy like shirtless this, then like it's gonna be like
you kind of know how to get likes right like
on Instagram and on Twitter it's different, like you don't know.
Like you could tweet. I could tweet like peanut butter

(12:34):
sandwich and it could get forty thousand likes. And I
could tweet the funniest joke of all time and it
gets ten likes. And it's just like I think the
as a person, like I mentioned somebody of systems, like,
there's no system to Twitter. It's just as so random.
And that's why I love using it as a fan
of it, because you find the just the stupidest, craziest,
most absurd humor. But also you're like, how do you feel,

(12:59):
how do you crack the code? You know, it's raw
stand Twitter is the is the most and you are
and you're so heavily in the k pop and uh
and like the pop world and those fans those like
stands are full blown like military force of just power.

(13:19):
I love Twitter because of the freedom of information. I
would say it's but the downside to that is that
there isn't a lot of checks and balances that I
mean besides the obvious where they like kick Trump off
Twitter and all that, but as just a society of it,
things can spread so quickly, which is kind of beautiful
because a lot of these social media is the you know,
they really they go into the algorithm and then you

(13:41):
actually don't like to see what you actually signed up for.
You know. It's like someone like my wife asked me yesterday,
do my photos even come up on your feet anymore?
And it's so bizarre because she's my wife, But I
mean I see her all the time, so I'm not
constantly searching here, so it doesn't put her stuff on
my feet. But with Twitter, at least, I know it
really it's like what SoundCloud was for music in the beginning,
where people you really could just spread each other's stuff

(14:04):
in a really beautiful way, and it wasn't really algorithmic based,
but I feel like it also again, things can be
fake and it gets spread so quickly, and it's just
that's it really does have a double edged sort effect.
It all does. Though. Yeah, I think you already you've
already talked about it, um with the One of my
questions was like, do you have any things that set

(14:24):
like that help you set limits on using your phone
or being You already answered that with your with your
previous answer, But what got you there? What made you?
What was the moment that you go, you know, was
it having your daughter, was it you know, being with
did you have a moment where you're like, wow, I'm
really just locked into this or this isn't well, this
isn't good for me. It just affected me too much.
And then I was realizing that these are tools. They're

(14:46):
not our life, and I think there's a fine balance
and and it's our we for what we do. It's
really important to utilize these tools to put our work
out there, and oftentimes it it's you know, it makes
the work even bigger if it's used in the right way.
So it's hard not to be obsessed with it when
you know it has the power to spread what you've

(15:08):
been working months or years on and you can't just discount.
And Emily always says this to me too, It's like
it is a part of our job in a way now,
And I think that for me, I realized though that
I was spending too much time like looking at what
everybody said, too much time in the comments, too much
time really diving in and then you know, it's the classic.

(15:29):
I would see something bad and I'd keep looking for
more bad just because you see the good and you
you scroll through that, you don't put as much weight
into it. Once you get the bad. Oh, it just
deeper and deeper in your gun. And I think especially
and You're the same way. There's a there's an empathetic
feeling to it where you don't just see these as
fake accounts. You see these as people on the other

(15:50):
side of the screen saying this. And so when you
think of it that way, and you think they'd have
the you know, the audacity to say. But the thing
that really made me realize that recently, through a few
different journeys was I realized that we put ourselves in
this position. What we do is we say we have
you know, a movie or an album or songs, and
we put them out there and you just really it's

(16:11):
the acceptance of people are gonna hate it or they're
gonna love it. It really has to you have to
be okay with the polarization because if you just do
what you think people are gonna like, you're you're just
gonna stay in the middle. And it's it's hard because
you do take it personally because it's so deeply personal
and it always will be and you're totally And the
thing that's crazy too, is is it it's all about

(16:33):
self confidence right like when you start listening. I remember
when I was I think I was like eighteen, and
I had and I had just booked, I just uh
released the first season of Royal Crush or the second season,
and I wasn't fit, Like I wasn't as fit as
I am now. I wasn't like as like about fitness,
and I was like a little you know, like a
little frumpy dad body like asked. And I remember the

(16:55):
episode where I was shirtless. All of the comments and
and it's like you said, like good comments are are?
I wish that I cared about good comments as much
as I care about bad comments, like I'll scroll through
and I'm like, I don't care if you liked it.
I don't care if you like not not if you're
listening to this, I don't actually feel like that. But
when you're not in the right headspace, you're just searching, like, yeah,
but who's where's the where's the criticism? And I remember

(17:16):
screenshotting a comment that was like Alex would be the
biggest star in the world if he wasn't so fat.
And I remember that comment to this day, and I
screenshot at it and I made it my wallpaper. I
cared so much because, like you said, there's a person
when it's when you think about it, like, that's a
person and my job is to make people happy, and
that person is not happy that I'm this, and you

(17:37):
kind of you really turn yourself. And I think another
thing that it really does is it it turns an album,
right like for instance, your album Absolutely Beautiful. I still
listen to Acid like literally, it's my it's my first,
my warm up song for everything that when you're creating
a piece of art and you have that in your mind,

(17:58):
no matter what it is, it's an album. It's this
it's that you're already pre preparing for what comments are
gonna come. Well, okay, well it has to be this
because I don't want people to say that I'm not this,
and it has to be that. It really changes subconsciously,
it changes your full like self confidence. For me, it's
my weight, you know, it has always been my weight,

(18:19):
and I've done We've had episodes talking about binge eating.
It's always been my weight, and I'm so happy that
I finally found a place where I work out for me,
and I don't work out because I don't want people
to comment about it. For me, it's it's it's all
about my weight, and it was always about my skin
until I until I luckily ended up clearing it up.
Is there anything specific for you that you're like, I
that it's really social media is really messed up. It's

(18:42):
not you know what's interesting. It's not a specific physical
trade or anything like that. I think it's just, um, yeah,
it's just this striving for my best, I guess, and
I guess this is truly recently, the acceptance of people
just not liking even your best, your personal best, because
it's just they're just not to it, you know, and
that's hard when you know that you're striving for that,

(19:04):
when you're trying to put what you feel is the
best you can offer out, and then the realization that
it's just some people just don't like that thing, like
some people just hate raps, some people just hate countries something,
and even if it's the best damn country music you
will ever hear, Like Dolly Parton is my is my idol.
And if someone says, I remember I told a really
good friend of mine, I was like, oh yeah, man,

(19:25):
Dolly wrote me this letter. It was the craziest thing
in my life. I have to make a song with
her whatever. And she was like, Dolly, pardon what. And
the thought that I could worship this person and another
person could hate them is mind blowing. But then when
you're in our position, it just I think it makes
it less harsh because then you just realize, man, I mean,

(19:46):
but imagine if she tried to convince, if Dolly Parton
tried to convince that person who didn't like her, you
should like me. It's like that wouldn't be something she do.
She just brushes it off, baby, and you just the
more we can brush it off, whatever it may be,
but that septance and that self confidence, like you're saying,
finding that the more that you have that armor for
what we do, you just keep building that big gas

(20:07):
you know, coat and suit of arms exactly the better
it feels when it does it just it just starts
to just ping off of you. If you know that,
you know you couldn't have given it any better than
than what you gave. That's why I'm so glad that
you're on this episode, because I think you have such
a good grasp on what is real, Like you're kind
of not necessarily on the other side of it now,
but you're experiencing it in real time, and you're also

(20:30):
having you're experiencing it with the knowledge of hey, this
is this you're very it's a very grounded sense. Um.
And I think because it's such a grounded sense, you
are so good at it. Like it's like it's everything
you post feels like authentic, right, everything from the curated
whole page of yellow to you know, to the photo
shoots and everything thematically is just m It's just clean

(20:53):
and precise. I think a lot of people see that.
And and again as anybody with the following, they'll see
that and they'll think that it's the that it takes
the same amount of effort as somebody who's just posting
a picture, you know, they're at the beach and they
snap a quick flick. But because a lot of people
then try and compare how they post to how we
post or how somebody who's who puts in hours and

(21:15):
hours to edit pictures and and and set up photo
shoots and and drive, you know, at sunrise to the
certain locations so that they can get this amazing shot.
I think a lot of people compare how they post
and making sure that they look good and doing all
of this, I think it started spiraling downwards. And so
I think a big piece of of helping change that
narrative is getting real about how we get things done.

(21:38):
You know, Like I remember a Wonderland photo shoot last
year that I did and I look like I looked awesome,
my six pack and my hair was perfect afro, and
it was like amazing, and people are like, wow, like,
you look so effortless in this I remember that sortain effortless.
You look effortless in this picture, And I was just like,
are you do you know what it took to get
to that? Like I was eating is eating kale and

(22:01):
dreams for breakfast, and then I would have like egg
white like and I was just working out and I
worked out for that one photo shoot, and then after
that photoshop was done, I had a huge in and
out burger and I did this whole nine and all
of that. So can you help elaborate on how much
effort really goes into something, because you are, I really
feel like, just one of the top pages to follow
when it comes to having that cohesive thing. I mean,

(22:23):
we're talking glam squad. We're talking hair and makeup, and
we're talking a backdrop, and we're talking props and all
of this stuff. What what do you feel like people
don't really fully understand that goes on behind the scenes
to create something that people compare their everyday life to.
One of my newest favorite things is it's a both.
It's like for the album cover, for example, I think
people thought the Rubi's Cube was photoshopped, but we built

(22:45):
this giant, life sized Ruby's Cube, And you know, I've
took photos on and stuff, and I think it's the
combination of that for what we do that's fun. It's
like showing we actually built that. So it is a
little it's hard to do, but also it's physically you
can you know, it's not like we're aliens. We're humans
and somebody became a workshop person and they built that
because that's what they do. And I think, if anything,

(23:07):
it's just you know, be obsessive with with what you do,
what you love in your vision. And then on the
other side, I've realized I really like the whole disposable
thing now, like a lot of if it's not that
it's the opposite, it's like something I can't edit it all,
or just disposable shots from studio whatever, so that it
I have no way. For one, it's just there. It's
not like I could, you know, I could edit the

(23:28):
photo or anything else. And hopefully that rawness is something
that comes across. But also I feel like why I've
loved it recently is too because the rawness of those
photos always just feels like a moment in time, and
I feel like we lose that with Instagram and all
these things, like we're always we're using it, like you're saying,
there's people of the beach or whatever else, and and
we're like we're doing something for Instagram rather than doing

(23:50):
something and sharing it with the world. That's that I
feel like, that's and I'm I'm I'm I'm with it. Man,
I've did that. I've just recently and this is hugely
because of Emily, because I have a baby, and you
just realize that time is such a different construct when
this little human is going to change so quickly. Um,
it's not that you can't use these things. I know

(24:11):
this is kind of a tangent of what you were asking,
but I just I think it's one of those things where, yes,
it's like a gymnast goes in and you see them
do you know, triple spins and it looks effortless like
you were saying. But um, but in the end, it
takes so much time and work to do that. But
also that's their thing. And I feel like, you know,
when you're creating these visual worlds for music or you know,

(24:32):
for videos, like what we're doing, and it is very
clean to Christine, that's what we do though, that's the
time we're doing and you don't have to don't replicate that,
do you. I love there's this TikTok account and she's
just a beekeeper and she just shows that she's the best.
It's the and you know what, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed
because it is raw. And you know she I'm sure

(24:54):
she takes photos of the beach too, but sure clearly
her thing is she's obsessed with these bees. She goes places,
she makes these videos. So finding your thing that is,
so you're obsessed with that's uniquely you. That doesn't feel
like work because you're working so hard at it, but
you're not drained by it. That's that's what we should
be using these tools to spread and share because we

(25:15):
all have that thing, whatever it is to us. I
feel like at the end of the day, it just
comes down to being authentic. You know. It's authenticity, it's
being yourself and you again are I think it's like
you're such you're like I think because I'm lucky enough
to know you, I see and I'm like, dude, that's him.
Like people, if if you want to, you don't have
to ask, well, what's Max? Like like literally look at

(25:36):
his posts like that's who Max is, you know. And
that's something that I think we should all strive to do, Like,
we should all be authentic. And I think up on
social media, everybody was just their authentic selves. We can
still post you know, your your beach pick where you
worked really hard and you have an a six pack
and you're feeling great and you're confident, but authenticity is
like so huge. I have a lot of other friends

(25:57):
and not to call them out or and I'm not
gonna say any names, but I have friends who I'm like,
why are you posting that? Like you're not that's not you, Like,
that's not you're talking about you know, life is great,
life is this, And then you're calling me crying like
or or the opposite, like somebody just bought a new
Lamborghini and is like life is good, and I'm like,
life's not. The life's not good, Like we're in the

(26:17):
middle of a pandemic that probably wasn't a financially smart
idea to do. Like sometimes I get upset or I
have to, like I find myself having to like mute people,
like if you had to have you had to mute
anybody like because you're just like either there you don't
feel like they're being their most authentic self, or what
they're posting isn't relatable because it's not it's not off,

(26:37):
it's not a real thing that people go through. I've
had to do that, and honestly, I'm gonna I'm I'm
gonna admit it. I've had to do it to friends,
like I've had to do it to like really good
friends of mine, you know, because it that authenticity is huge,
you know what I mean? Yeah, No, totally, Man, I
feel like it's it's always tough when you know the
person so well and you feel like, if anything, sometimes
it just feels like it's they're they're just reaching out

(26:59):
for help. And I even see with haters, you know,
I've I've really tried to recently realize that hating anybody
who criticizes all the time or hates all the time,
they're just looking for someone else to connect with who
also feels that way. It's just another tool to utilize
to say, I just you know, did you hate the
weekend super Bowl performance? Like this is why I hate
it's like and which is, by the way, the most

(27:21):
polarizing performance you could do those my gosh, because I
thought he was fantastic and I thought he did a
great job. And I know what you invest in people
like how do what it takes and what it takes
you see those thousand people on the field who you
think is paying for that? Who did there? So's the
COVID test all this stuff. It's like people wonder, but
point being, I think, you know, but he also put

(27:41):
himself on that stage, and therefore that stage can be criticized.
And as long as he keeps doing his thing no
matter what people are saying, amen to him. And I
feel like exactly, but those kinds of people I try
to cut out more and more in my life. Like
you're saying, maybe muter when I just see that it's
constant criticism and hate. It's not even to make better,

(28:02):
it's it's almost like that's their identity is too criticize
or hate. And to the point where I just feel like,
where what do you love? Then like, okay, find goodly,
I see what you hate, but whereas you know, it's
like there's this dude, um Anthony Fantano. He's a music critic,
and personally I'm into because I just feel like he
really does give love word where he feels it's due,

(28:26):
and maybe he gives criticism where he feels it's due.
But I do appreciate that it is both. It isn't
just a guy who just like this album sucks. This
album sucks, he goes, this album is a masterpiece. And
here's why I feel it so at least with those
like if those are the kinds of people I don't
want in my life as much, who just feel like
they're draining you more than they're giving you energy, right,
and that that's not worth it. It's not about being

(28:48):
positive all the time, because that, I think is also
a huge, a huge problem. It's about being authentic. I think,
just authentic, you know, and and again I can't you're
not iterated enough. It's just awesome seeing your face. Man.
And by the way, forgot to say, great bowler, a
great bowlder. Um, when life is when life is back
to normal and bowling isn't the weirdest germyst thing in

(29:11):
the world, We'll we'll have to have I have to
come to a bowling night. Um. But you really are
You're you are the same, Max, whether we're in like,
whether I've seen you at a at a a large
group of people, whether I'm sitting in your dressing room,
whether we're in the d m s, whether you're posting
on social media, whatever, it is like, you are always
the same, and your fans I feel like, get to

(29:34):
see that and sleep peacefully knowing that you're not like
one of those. By the way, these people are real
secret like awesome, positive celebrities who like behind closed doors
is being a psychopath like and treating everybody like garbage. Right,
So the people that follow you online who love your posts,
who are super happy, um, but might be missing what

(29:56):
your biggest message that you want is. I would love
to hear what is what is the biggest message that
Max on social media and in life would love for
his followers to to feel and understand. Honestly, I just
want them to find what I was saying their obsession,
because I think we all have that thing that we
feel guilty that we enjoy doing so much whatever it is.

(30:19):
Like my wife, for example, she is so great at
shopping and that sounds funny, but as a style she
does the video Emily style is immaculate, so good she does.
She's dressing our baby like a little queen. And I
think for a long time, and I mean, she can't
spend all the money that we have left. You know,
baby's got to go to college. But I do there
was a second where you know, I was telling her

(30:39):
like I hate shopping, which sounds crazy too, but don't
put me in a store for hours, don't do any
of these things. And she really she loves it. She'll
spend hours looking for the best outfits and it doesn't
drain her. It's she's into that and I see the joy.
But I sometimes see the guilt in her face, thinking that, like,
you know, that's not that's not a job, or she's
not doing a great job doing it, but that is it.

(31:02):
And I only hope that because people are their happiest
when they do find that obsession that they're into and
they realize that they shouldn't feel guilty for it because
someone like me hate shopping, which sounds crazy, But if
you love it, you're meant to do it. If you
love being a trainer, if you love being a doctor.
I want the doctor who's obsessed with being a doctor
to my doctor, the person who live our baby. That

(31:23):
woman walked in her name she whatever else said, and
her name is Dr Bliss, best name, Oh my god.
And this woman, this woman shows up every day and
she loves bringing babies into the world. That's who you want.
So all I can hope is that those people out there,
hopefully see how obsessed I am with what I get
to do, to the point where I have to put
my phone away because I'm just looking up more music.
And I hope they find that because everybody deserves to

(31:45):
have that in their life. Well, my guy, I'm gonna
use the line that you you gave me and uh
and when I got my nice little merge pack, you
have the voice of an angel and the heart of
one to my friend. We're gonna take a quick break
when we come back. Elizabeth and I are going a deep,
deep dive into what's going on behind the screens. Don't
go anywhere, all right, We are back and I am
here with this is I still can't I still love

(32:07):
this title. A perfectionism expert, and we're going to figure
out what that means. Elizabeth. Sue is here with us. Elizabeth,
how are you today? I'm so good. I can't wait.
This is a topic near and dear to my heart,
so I can't get into it. I know you're an
expert in all of this, but we do have to
start the same way I started with Max. What's your poison?

(32:29):
What is it that gets you hooked? Oh? Go on,
you know, I think it's a toss up between the
constant checking, like it's I'm like making dinner, I'm like
in line, I'm waiting for a friend and I just
can't stop checking. Um, and that that feeling of like

(32:52):
what did I miss? I hate that feeling because it's
I literally didn't miss my husband's like what do you
think changed between the three seconds that you just checked?
And it makes me feel crazy. And then my other big,
big thing that just destroys my mental health is comparing

(33:13):
myself to others. It is it's running a business and
as a writer trying to get published, it's just constant.
She's doing it better. They have a bigger following, they
have better connections, Like I am a worthless piece of
crap like it it gets dark so quickly. So I'm
gonna just take an awesome segue because you describe yourself

(33:34):
as a self love evangelist. You just said that. That
being said, does social media teach us anything positive about
self love? Or is it all negative? That's a great question. Um.
I think in your conversation with Max, like, I really
loved it. That actually brought me me a lot of

(33:56):
joy because it did bring me back to the good
things about it. And I am also, you know, on
this journey of building a community and building an audience,
and for so long it did feel very frustrating and
it felt very toxic, like it was it was hard
for me to separate that business strategy from my self

(34:21):
love journey of trying not to tie my worth to
people's approvals of me and likes and comments and followers
is exactly people's approval of you. So it's really it's
been very confronting. But I think you're right in what
social media does do is it brings people together from

(34:43):
around the world in a very cool way. And I've
seen that happen, and I think for me, because I
can't ditch it, I don't think any of us can,
especially where we are right now in the pandemic, And
so it's trying to figure out how to make it
work for you and take take the good. And I
think for me, it's showing up as as you were,

(35:07):
saying as authentically as I can, and putting myself out
there and hoping that hoping that that is enough and
if it isn't, at least I can go to bed
feeling like I was an integrity and I was continuing
to put one foot forward on trying to feel good
about myself. Absolutely. I mean that's but that's why I

(35:28):
love your Your title is amazing self love evangelists. Like
an evangelist like you're. You're not claiming that you are,
that you have all the answers. You're not like a
professor of self love like you are an evangel like
you're you're also going through it. You're just trying to
help others get there too, you know. And so I
think it is important for us to to find the
things that social media can teach us about self love.

(35:49):
That's why I love like you'll have those I love
seeing my favorite things to see on on Instagram or
weight loss journeys, like people who are like I lost
a hundred pounds this year, and you go in those
comments and it's so like, yes, you got this, and
you see it. And I think a lot of people,
especially me, like I see those and it does inspire
me to go, you know what, I want to do
that because because I see how happy they look, and

(36:10):
I see all of these things and it gives you.
And I think a lot of times for me especially,
I feel like fitness is a way of me giving
myself self love because I'm giving my body what it
needs and I'm taking care of myself and you see
things like that, and there are definitely moments, you know,
it's those glimmers of light that are just so helpful,
you know, or I wish there was, like I don't
know if there's like a social media app that only

(36:31):
is that stuff, but I feel like we spend it's
and it actually studies show that we spend like three
times more energy and more free time on apps that
are draining, like social media can be. Then the ones
that actually enrich our lives, like a meditation app or
a or an app that that what's that app that
I use that? Like you you start a clock and

(36:52):
it grows a tree, and if you use your app,
then the tree, if you use your phone then the
tree dies. Things like that like we use we spend
three times more of our free time there, right, And
Max and I were just talking about how we search
for the bad comments. We're trying to like we're almost
like going for it. Why do you feel like we
can't stop using social media even when it makes us
feel bad. Sometimes even because it makes us feel bad. Absolutely,

(37:15):
it's it's very intentional the forest app. Thank you, Catherine,
the forest app. That's what it's called. I got myself
a little forest, right, and I love I love that. No,
I think I think that's where that's kind of where
we have to begin, and we have to give ourselves
and each other grace and compassion for the fact that
that is literally what social media is designed to do,

(37:39):
is to pick at your insecurities and scarcity and all
these things that get us hooked and get us addicted
and want because it psychologically that's what it was built around.
And the likes and the comments and that follows all
of that hits our pleasure centers in our brain, so
of course we would want more of that. And so

(38:01):
I think that's a really important thing to keep in
mind when you're feeling it's I always think about this,
it's like there's nothing worse and feeling bad about feeling bad.
So when you're like starting to like hate on yourself
for not being able to get your social media addiction
under control or disconnect, like we it's kind of at

(38:22):
this point we all know what we should do. We
all know, you know, we live happier or more peaceful
lives if we meditated, and we drink a lot of water,
and we exercised, and we didn't spend a lot of
time on our phones, but spend time in nature. Like
we all know that, and yet we are in this
digital age where for so many of us it is

(38:42):
a part of our business. It's how we make money.
And until you know, capitalism dies, it's kind of going
to have to be something that we think about. And
so I I think it is important to just keep
that in mind when you start to feel insecure about that,
to have compassion for just what is actually at play.

(39:03):
How do you think we discern between I'm being enriched
right now because I think criticism, you know, like Max said,
he has his favorite like critics who and I and
I we just dropped finding a Han and there's critics
and I love reading the critics like who actually have
things that I think are constructive. But how do we
tell how how can the listener at home, who's like, well,
sometimes I look at Instagram and I feel really good,

(39:25):
but sometimes I feel bad. But sometimes I feel bad
but it's good, And sometimes I feel good but it's bad.
How do we discern whether we're being enriched or drained
by Instagram or another platform that is the life. That's
what we're all trying to It's like, I mean, that's
what I'm trying to practice every day in relationship, you know,

(39:45):
all the business opportunities, everything is is that discernment. And
what I love about what you just shared about all
the different versions of emotions around social media is to
be aware that it can be different. And actually, I
think comes back to your own heart and your own

(40:05):
body and where you are at, because we tend to
think so much outside ourselves, like what is this thing
doing to us? And how do we then change our behavior?
But I think we can flip it and take stock
and how we are feeling in any given moment and

(40:25):
kind of take that lead. And so I know, for me,
if I'm feeling very raw and vulnerable and I go
on social media, it's almost like my egos going to
latch onto things that are going to fuel that fire
of worthlessness, of feeling unworthy. And so I try to

(40:46):
you know, I don't get it right every time because
I am indeed and perfect, um, I you know, try
to check in with myself how am I feeling today
and have that intention going into whatever it is that
I'm doing usually for for business, and and then kind
of step out, step out of that and to see

(41:09):
how that is making me feel. But I think when
you have that constant scroll, in, that constant checking, you
can go so quickly from like oh, like this is
a tool, or this is I just did this like
really fun. I g live right, um, listen to this
cool podcast and sharing that with your community too, like oops,
I just got triggered by this like person over here

(41:32):
doing this thing that upset me over here. So it
can fluctuates so quickly. Absolutely, I totally agree with you,
Like it's it's so easy to jump, like the switch over.
I could be watching one I could be looking at
one post and feel incredible, and it's like it's kind
of like um a slot machine, you know, like you
you might you swipe one time and you're like, oh
my gosh, like I love that sad video to that

(41:54):
sad song about like the Sun who pays off his
parents debt, and you're just like love awesome. And then
next post you're seeing like a riot and you're just like, oh, okay,
all right, like there's nothing there, right, And and so
outside of that um and getting more into the your
your personal experience, and I think a lot of people

(42:15):
are dealing with this. And you're obviously a perfectionalism expert,
and you've also talked about your drive for perfection and
how you had to overcome that, and I relate with
that so much. I remember, even to this day, like
I have a tiny gap in my two front teeth
because I didn't wear my retainers enough. And now I'm like,
it's the only thing I think about. Or I'll get
one pimple on my forehead and I think I look
like the dude from Goonies, the hey you guys. I

(42:40):
think Instagram, specifically, all social media's that include visual stimulation
trigger that need for a perfection and and it's really
a problem for me, and it's a problem for a
lot of people. So, as an expert, as we're closing
out this segment, what's your advice for the for the
watcher out there who, even if they're not I, strive

(43:01):
for a perfection outside of social media. So it even
doubles down on social media. But even if you don't
strive perfection, you watch social media and you feel bad
about yourself because you're not this or you're not that,
And then you you try and do the fat diets
because you didn't look like that model, and then you
get like, you get drained, So then you're feeling sad
and you're looking and it's just it can be such

(43:22):
a downward spiral. What is your advice? Because you obviously
this is this is your study. You know, people can
feel burnt out, they can feel completely useless, they can
feel purposeless, they can feel lost, and and it can
all be triggered from one post. It can all be
triggered from one thing. You know, what's your advice? Ah,

(43:44):
I know I have, I've been there, and even someone
who studies this all the time, I well, it's I
study it because I struggle with it. And I think
something to think about two is, you know, if if
you're on this self love journey and trying to embrace
your imperfections, like you're not going to be able to

(44:06):
do that perfectly. You know, I'm I'm in the self
help world a lot and the personal growth world, and
I think there is this idea that you're either you know,
someone who's really struggling or you know, putting all this
like negative and you're using social media um to kind

(44:26):
of drag down the world or you're over here, like
being overly positive and overly like here here are the
five steps to achieving like a peaceful life for happiness
or whatever. And even though those things are helpful and useful,

(44:49):
I think there's a middle ground that is reality and
that is more authentic and that does show okay here,
like this is a like cool piece that I just
wrote that I can't wait to share with y'all um
alongside you know, a picture of me crying where it
was like, today was a terrible day. I've I've had

(45:11):
posts like that where it's like I actually have no
advice for you right now other than like some days
suck and that's okay. And then there's another, you know,
a picture of me dancing that's like, you know, I
like I got some fun news and like I'm going
to celebrate, Like here's for celebration, and so it's it's

(45:32):
I think that being able, that that is part of
the vulnerability of social media is I think as long
as we're able to be okay with who we are,
and that that is what the studies show is the
number one way to combat perfectionism is to cultivate unconditional

(45:56):
self acceptance because kind of to backup, perfectionism really is
that feeling what psychologists call you have a contingent sense
of self worth. So this idea that I am only
worthy of love and acceptance and approval if I achieve something,
and it's killer because we live in a society that

(46:18):
keeps beating us those messages. And with what I found
astonishing in my research was in the last thirty years,
perfectionism has increased thirty three percent, and that is mostly
due to societal expectations. So there are actually three components
of perfectionism. One is self oriented perfectionism, which is kind

(46:42):
of being hard on ourselves. The other is other oriented perfectionism,
which is people being hard on other people. So if
you if I judge myself very harshly, I'm going to
judge other people harshly, even if, like in my heart,
I'm a good person, Like that just is what happens.
And then the third is socially prescribed, so it's you

(47:02):
can look at it in terms of um, academic institutions, workplaces, Hollywood,
you know, all these avenues that tell us we need
to be perfect in order to succeed. So we have
kind of this coming at all angles. And social media
really is that perfect storm where it's coming together. You're
putting content out, you're seeing other people's content, and then

(47:24):
you have this like how your standard to try to
meet which is impossible, absolutely absolutely, and you said it.
Social media literally is all of that and it's everywhere
and it's so easy, and I'm so glad that you would.
Thank you for giving all of this information. We're gonna
take a break and when we come back, we're gonna
figure out how we fix it, what we can do
to actually make a change about all of this madness. Uh,

(47:47):
do not go anywhere, Elizabeth, to thank you so much
for coming on. Alright, it is time we are here.
Everybody's where, we're all chilling, and we're talking about how
we fix all of this. Right, we're taught. We we've
been talking about the problems. We've talked, talked about what's
going on behind the scenes. How do we fix this stuff?
I feel like it's kind of easy, but not easy,
And it's just I think it's just about how much

(48:08):
time and energy we give into it. Right, So, um,
obviously it's easier said than done. We use our phones,
especially if you are working from home, or you are
out and about, You're using your phones more than anything,
and opening your social media apps is just as easy
as opening you know, your other apps. So what do
you guys think is something that we can do to minimize? Um,

(48:29):
If we can't minimize the amount that we use our
phone based off of our job or based off of
you know, the fact that that's just who we are
as humans right now, what can we do to minimize
the impact that social media has on our minds? How
that the impact that has on our emotions and the
impact that has on our self worth go for a queen?
I have so many thoughts. Um, one is is what

(48:50):
Max was saying before, and it seems so simple, But
taking breaks, that's like textbook. All the studies show that
that's the way to you distance ourselves from from internalizing
those messages and from perpetuating that problem. And I think
it's important. It's going to be different for everyone. Um,

(49:11):
it's going to be very individual. But I think you
need to take a hard look of at your own
patterns and what you know about yourself. So for me,
I know that I have a very addictive personality and
so things are very all or nothing for me. So
moderation is actually very difficult. I've had like thirty different
interventions with myself on how much when I use social media,

(49:34):
at what hours, for how long? And for me, I've
decided that because it's such an all or nothing game, Sundays,
I take off and my team knows that, my husband
knows that, like everyone knows that, and so I think
being upfront with your needs and I similarly, I hide

(49:55):
my phone, and my husband hasn't much more healthy or
relationship with his phone and social media, and so we
kind of joke that he's my personal assistant, Like if
you need to get in touch with me, you reach
out to him. And to me, it's like it's it
is a sick addiction that I absolutely will admit that

(50:16):
I struggle with. Mm hmmm, mm hmm. Yeah, I couldn't
agree more. I feel like the brakes are so necessary
with anything in our lives, truly. I mean, it gives
you perspective. It makes you feel like, oh, this is
who I am. When I'm obsessed with my phone all
the time, or I'm missing out on these moments because
I'm looking at Instagram even when my baby is right
next to me. Those kinds of moments are important for

(50:37):
us to internalize and then I feel like, yeah, it
just gives you more of your You're in the moment
of this time in your life. But it also really
just connect and that you know, as much as we
talk about the negatives of it, I think realize what
actually brings you the most joy from using it? Why
do we actually care about these things? Every time we
think about that, why do we care? And it's for

(50:58):
me It's like I can't believe that I connect with,
you know, somebody in Korea via Instagram and then we
create something together. That's something that is such an incredible
use of the tool of these social media So I
feel like when we pinpoint what brings us the most
joy and subtracts, I don't need to go through the comments.
What am I doing? Right? Why do I Why am
I spending hours going through these comments? How much joy

(51:19):
is that actually bringing me with any of these places?
I feel like the more we do that, the better
relationship will have with these apps that we are obsessed with. Well,
that's actually where I was going to go with this,
is like I don't think the answer is to delete
social media, Like I like, that's not because there are
so many amazing things. I got to feel like I

(51:39):
was a part of your birthing of your first child.
Because and I and I haven't seen you in over years,
like over a year. I got to feel like I
was a part of your process. And I feel like
we still get to have podcasts and we still get
to connect with each other. I met my girlfriend on
social media, Like, there is a lot that you get
to do. There's so many amazing things about social media.

(52:00):
What to you, uh, both of you guys, would be
something that I just kind of just spilled out everything
that I love about social media. But for you guys,
it could be something different. Is there anything specific about
social media you had mentioned Max about connecting with fans
on the other side of the world and building a
fan base. You used to have to tour everywhere to
build a fan if you want to if you want
fans in Korea, you'd have to go to Korea and

(52:22):
either open up for somebody or do a tour or
sing on the street or promote your record there. And
now it's a lot different. How do you feel, Oh, yeah,
it's that exactly though. It's and even more so in
my specific position there's so many artists that I'm connected
with around the world. Like a great example is this
really cool artist's name is Keshy. He's the bomb if
you don't know his music, amazing musician and uh literally

(52:43):
we dammed on Instagram and then we both got you know,
covid tested for a few days and then he came
over to my studio and we made some music together.
And that was solely because Instagram connected us and we
saw mutual people that we worked with and stuff. But
that was the means of how we not only it
from point A to point B. That was it was
like a text message or anything else, but something public

(53:06):
that we could utilize. So I feel like there really
are some magical moments brought to you by Instagram, were
brought to you by Twitter, and and we can't discount those.
Oh absolutely. I mean I think about the like our relationship,
you're my relationship has been strengthened more on social media
than it is everywhere else. I've met so many amazing
artists in Australia. Cody. I met Cody on social media

(53:28):
and yeah, I've connected with I've connected with Cody from that.
Cody plays saxophone, plays everything with Max. Literally that dude,
It's it's insane. Cody dot Deer on Instagram makes I
met him on Instagram to great examples, he did a
cover he did a cover of one of my other group,
this group called Party People, as he liked just ripped
sacks over something. And he posts these videos and he's

(53:48):
been playing. He's toured around the world with us for
the last two years because we saw a video of
him ripping saxophone over our cover of Miss Jackson. So
as artists, it's so it's been. There are so many
useful things. That's why I wanted to preface this whole
episode with I'm not antisocial media. There's just sometimes where
it's really bad for me. But I do think it's
important that we do point out there are amazing things,

(54:09):
because I think throughout this episode, if you don't appreciate it,
then you can kind of fall into a like, well whatever,
let's just delete it. Um. Outside of the artist world, Elizabeth,
is what for you specifically social media really done in
a positive way in your life? Yeah? You know what
surprising is it's actually helped my own creative expression and
my own trying to show up in the world is

(54:32):
my whole self. That's kind of one of my intentions
because I come from Silicon Valley, Like I had that
whole life for a while, and that was one version
of me. And then I showed up in my business
as this very like authentic but still very buttoned up.
It was like professional authentic. I still had that part

(54:54):
of me that was, you know, painting my nails like
light paint, you know. And then I went through this
whole phase of like everything was black and I was
like in this rebellious phase. And now it's kind of
coming into my own and I see that it reflected
in my feed. And I remember there was one day
at the end of last year and I was just like, oh,
this just feels too serious. Like yes, I talked about

(55:15):
a lot of serious topics and we go deep and
I love the heart to hearts and at the same time,
I was like that that also isn't all of me.
I Actually I love dancing. I love nineties boy band
so I started these uh Instagram live dance parties, which
was like so silly and weird, and but also that

(55:37):
is as much me as talking about my history with
an eating disorder or anxiety. That's probably one of the
things that I've most gotten from Instagram is the ability
to just like play with who I am and to
and to give myself permission to evolve as my writing

(56:00):
evolves and my content evolves, in my personal growth evolves. Yeah. Absolutely,
So I have one I have one last question for
each of you, um, and I'll start with you, Elizabeth.
I think a lot of responsibility obviously falls on ourselves
and how we view and how we how much time
we consume, and how much that we invest ourselves into
other things. But I think a lot of weight also

(56:20):
should be given to these social media platforms. And I
think some platforms have done a really really great job
at at you know, you have your TikTok um they
started implementing those like if you're scrolling for a certain
amount of time, like a TikTok will pop up and
it's that guy that everybody knows from Vine and he's like, hey,
you've been on TikTok for quite a while now, Like,
why don't we take a break. I've had that, So

(56:41):
if I've got to hit that every night this week honestly,
because I've been a TikTok feed this week. But there's
some things, or even Instagram when they wanted to start
implementing not showing how many likes you get and not
showing comments or um, you know, different ways. But I
also think that there's a lot of things, especially in
the visuals, is really kind of where I am. We
have all of these phil turns on tickto and And

(57:01):
this is not to call any social media out again.
We just talked about how much we love social media.
But like TikTok has a mode that's called beauty mode,
and I think that there shouldn't be Like, in my opinion,
I think they should remove it. I don't think that
you should have a button that a kid presses that
makes them now pretty because whatever was before was not beauty,
but now it's beauty mode. Or same with the face,

(57:24):
it's like you can change your face to look as
the way that you wanted to and all of these things. Elizabeth,
how do you feel, especially somebody who studies perfectionism, um,
how do you feel social media apps and those platforms
can can make even more change, especially in the visuals,
uh and and the and the societal standard that that

(57:45):
a lot of kids in today's world are are gonna
be dealing with if things don't change absolutely. And I
love the example of filter because I've been thinking about
that myself, because I also sometimes most of the time
use filters, and oh I use filters, by the way,
that is not me being like you shouldn't use filters.
I use filters. I'm gonna be I'm absolutely the kettle.

(58:07):
I'm the kettle and the pot at this point, like
I am both um and it's all about to me.
It's like, it's more so, how do we all stop?
Because I use beauty Mode and I look at beauty
Mode and I go, I just wish I looked like that,
you know, But but it's not fair to say that. Yeah,
And what's interesting is I noticed all the filters that
I use on Instagram are of like beautiful white women,

(58:28):
and I'm mixed. I'm half Chinese, and I have had
this whole, very dark reckoning of my racial identity. And
it has occurred to me, like just the other day,
I was like, gosh, you know, what is that message?
What am I sending to my subconscious every time I

(58:49):
use this filter to be this like blond, like blond,
blue eyed person um? And so I think we can
go kind of even deeper there in terms of not
just what the filters are telling us about beauty, but
also like, what are these filters telling us about race

(59:09):
and our our ability to love ourselves just the way
we are? And I think that's something that is very
important to me as someone who studies perfectionism, because the
number one combatant to perfectionism and learning to really love
yourself is that unconditional self acceptance and self compassion. And
so when you're constantly trying to morph yourself into what

(59:34):
you think is better or what the world truly does
perceive as more beautiful, because that that is the the
zeit geys, that's that is what we have told everyone,
then it just continues to perpetuate that problem. So I
think you're onto something with with the filters, um And

(59:55):
I mean, the other thing that just really gets me
is that kind infinite scroll of those visuals, and it's
it just it's this never never ending feeling of things
could be more, things could be better, or I could
look like this, or I could oh, she's achieving that,

(01:00:17):
and that it manifests in the endless scroll and it
seems like, gosh, that's just like a silly feature over here,
but I think inside of our minds, it kind of
it never allows that loop to close. And so even
after we put away our device, it's still going. It's
still like oh yeah, and this and that and that,

(01:00:38):
and it's then, of course we're never going to feel
enough because we are flooded with these images that are different. Yeah,
I mean I opened I opened up, I opened up
my fridge multiple times, and the same stuff is in
the fridge. I open on my fridge five times in
an hour, and it's going to be the same thing.
So imagine if my fridge had a new thing every

(01:00:59):
time I opened it up, I'd be a pening it
up every minute, you know. And that's to me what
social media is. As you guys can tell, I'm very hungry,
um Max, now for your question. You're kind of doing
double duty. You and m are doing double duty at
this point because not only are you living it and
you are, for lack of better term, feeding the machine
by being a part of this, especially in a in
a huge way, you're also having to be a parent.

(01:01:20):
I remember watching a Ted talk where um Steve Jobs
was interviewed about the new iPad and said, you know,
do your children like the new iPad and he's like, oh,
they don't use they don't use the like they're not
like And I feel like most of the most of
the tech monsters, especially in Silicon Valley, they don't let
their kids do it because they see the ugly in it.

(01:01:41):
They see what's going on and being a parent right now,
Like my sister has a has a almost two year old,
and in my mind, I'm like that, I don't know
what what do you do? You know? And how do
you even think about the next ten years as your daughter,
as as Eadie Selene just grows up and has to
deal with this? Are you planning? Do you have do
you have any idea of what you're gonna do? I

(01:02:03):
feel like it's just all I keep talking with Emily
about is it. It's if anything, it is more of
a self reflecting moment because I feel like it's just
leading by example. I don't I don't want to if
I got to use my phone and or I do
all these things, I don't want to. I don't want
to be a hypocrite to her. I feel like the
only way I'm gonna be able to do it is
tell her, you know, if if I'm on my phone

(01:02:23):
too much, then I feel like she's gonna soak that in.
So I hope that we can just be you really
want to be the best example. But by doing that,
it's a responsibility to say, well, then I really do
have to hide my phone or when I don't really
need to use it, or tell her I'm on my
phone because this this this manager texted me about this song.
I'm not ignoring you. It's like the communication is interesting

(01:02:45):
Emily as a really intense psychology of it, because she
was a nanny for seven years and she baby sat
and was the nanny for so many other people's kids,
and I think that made her feel like, oh man,
I don't want It's the same thing. She's like, I
don't want to ever have a nanny. I was a
nanny for seven years, just like how these you know,
silicon value people feel. But but I do. I feel
like anything that we tell I tell my my baby

(01:03:07):
she can't do, it's just gonna be the opposite effect exactly,
And why why why are you doing it? Exactly? Why
can you watch TV or all these things? So I
feel like I the only thing I'm gonna know how
to do is be able to say, you're right, I'm
gonna stop watching TV and go outside and play with
you because I don't. I don't want to limit your
experience with the world. And I think that's the other
thing for parents. You've already experienced it and you want

(01:03:30):
to be better for your kids. But you know, I'm
super new to this game. But all I can think
is like, but she hasn't experienced anything I've experienced. She doesn't.
She needs to, She needs to explore the world so
that she knows what she likes and she doesn't like
the Hopefully we can instill some values in her to
to make those choices for herself. I just want to
keep trying to do that, but it is tough. I

(01:03:51):
have a little baby cousin who's now nine, and she's
I had obsessed. Well, that's the thing. It's not only
how you treat your children. But then she's going to
go out into the war world where there's other kids
who aren't being regular, like, they're not being regulator, they're
not being led by example, and then she's going to
see pick up on that. Oh, she gets to bring
her iPad to school, so during lunch, instead of running
around and playing tags, she gets to play, you know,

(01:04:13):
Clash of Clans or I don't know whatever the kids
are playing these days. But it's like it's just it's everywhere,
you know, and and right now, the negativity is everywhere.
And I think that's the biggest thing is how do we,
as not only adults and not only as you know,
people who are are very fortunate to have a following
on social media, how do we change the conversation not

(01:04:36):
just for e Selen, not just for my Niemila, not
just for that, but for the future of This is
where reality is going to sit now. This is and
social media is very gapped from reality at the moment,
and I think how do we close that gap and
get it as close as we can. I think it's
always going to have a little bit of a filter
on it, and that's not bad to have a little
filter on it, because it's fun and and it is

(01:04:57):
sometimes a good way to get out of the world
that you're in at a moment and feel like you're
in another place and and kind of how concerts are
for some people, you know, sometimes social media can be
that for me where I'm like, I'm having a really
bad day, but if I look at a hundred memes.
I'm gonna be really, I'm gonna be in a lot
better of a mood. You know. So how do we
change that gap? Your title the titles you said. I
think that's a big thing. It's that is that is

(01:05:17):
messed up. There shouldn't be a beauty mode that you know,
we shouldn't. I think you can't. Like again, you can't
get rid of filters and all these things. But I
do think how we title them is important. I wouldn't
want Eaty to see a mode that tells her this
is what beautiful is, says yeah, beauty and then it
changes what ugly mode or whatever, you know, that kind
of stuff. That definitely that that feels like a choice

(01:05:37):
for these apps, which are tools to make to say
we shouldn't say this because to this especially tiny human,
they're reading that and there. That's that's what the learning fels.
You know. What one I like though, is the baby one.
That one That filter is great because there's no it's
not offensive to anybody. You're just example like, that's perfect.

(01:05:58):
Let's okay, I'm gonna start a petition right now. We're
gonna make baby mode the only filter allowed or old
people remember the old people one. Yeah, wrinkles and gray hair,
those two are totally fun. I think those ones are fun,
and it's and other than that, we I think I
could do without. But I think you're right. It's it's
just how do we change the narrative? You know what

(01:06:18):
is how what do we what do we change about it?
Do we fix that? Fix beauty modes so that it's
just set to like you know, lighting mode. The titles
are definitely toxic. I think my biggest takeaways are that
we allow social media so often to govern us when
in reality, like you said in my favorite I think

(01:06:39):
one of my favorite lines that you said today is
that we it's a tool. It's not it's not our life,
it's not our it's not our responsibility. It's not like
our If if we deleted our social media tomorrow, then
we're just going to continue going on about our lives.
So if we think about it in that way and
we take the weight out of it and understand this
is the other thing is like understand that everybody is

(01:07:01):
thinking what we're thinking, and everybody's we think everybody's going
to judge us, but everybody else is worried that they're
going to get judged as well, and it's just like
how do we how do we alter that? And so
if you're listening to this, I'm so glad that you
got to listen to two amazing guests on this episode
who have have an awesome grasp on things, and I'm
so grateful for both of you guys coming on. Um,

(01:07:21):
this is the wrap up segment. It's called Shameless Promo,
and I just want you to talk about everything that's
going on in your lives. Where people can find you
on social media, where they can find your authenticity on
on social media hosts and all of that. UM, go
after Elizabeth, let's here, where can we find you? Yeah,
so you can find me on Instagram at Hail Elizabeth Sue.

(01:07:42):
That's h e y Elizabeth Sue s U. You can
also sign up for Monday Fives my newsletter which is
super fun on my website Elizabeth Su dot com. And then,
as you mentioned, my biggest project right now is my
book and finding a good home for that. So if
anyone knows of a literary agent or someone in the

(01:08:04):
publishing world that would be interested, shoot me a message.
I'd be grateful to connect. That was Oh my gosh, Max,
you gotta follow that up. That was That might be
the best shameless promo that like just it was just
so clean, it was precise. Everybody knows where to find you.
Everybody's excited. I'm excited. Do you have a title for
the book yet? I have a tentative title flawed feeling

(01:08:26):
worthy in a society that demands perfection. I love those
books that have books that have a colon just are
are automatically big best sellers for me, Like, I'm going
after it, Max, Baby, talk to us. My shame was
from Yeah, my album coverage is out, have a deluxe
version with a bunch of goodies on it coming out,
and I think it's early March. I got pushed poopy,

(01:08:47):
but anyway, Yeah, you can check that out. And then
yeah at Max Music and at Max where I got
lucky like YouTube and stuff. Some some hockey player got
it on Instagram. So at Max Music, go for it.
Don't you hate it when your name just gets taken
by somebody else has your name? Yeah? Man, come on,
you're you're not. I'm going by this one. Very hard
to google name. You go, you use your last name.

(01:09:08):
I don't know my last literally as a hockey player.
You literally use your last You have dates on your shirt.
Your my name is on my shirt. Your last name
is on your shirt. This is my max. I don't
even know your last name. I forget it. But if
you're listening, if you're a big fan Alex podcast, give
me my damn name on Instagram. That's our second petition.
We got two petitions going on one to get mad
even name on Instagram. Give it to me, man, we

(01:09:31):
want it. Um, I'm so I'm so happy. Yeah makes
you guys listen to color visions. Color is great and
if you're lucky enough, you'll get color visions hoodie. That's
how you know you're a real one. Um. I still
rock my color vision hoodie to this day. You guys
know where you can find me at alex ion O
A I O n oh. Best part about having a
weird last name you don't have to compete with hockey players.

(01:09:52):
Thank you guys so much. This is the end of
let's get into it season one. If you want season two,
make sure you tweet my heart let them know that
this is what you want. This is how badly you
want it. I love you guys. Make sure you rate
our podcast makes you subscribe. That's how we continue to grow,
and that's how he gets season two. But until then,
I love you guys, peace. We really want you to

(01:10:16):
get the help you need, so if you need help,
please seek independent advice from a competent healthcare or mental
health professional. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast
are solely those of the podcast author or individuals participating
in the podcast, and do not represent the opinions of
I Heart Media or its employees. This podcast should not
be used as medical advice, mental health advice, counseling, or therapy.
Listening to the podcast does not established dr patient relationship

(01:10:37):
with hosts or guests of alex IONO, Let's Get Into
It or I Heart Media. No guarantee is given regarding
the accuracy of any statements or opinions made on this podcast. Well,
if that's a doozy