Basketball royalty joins ALL THE SMOKE as Matt and Stak sit down with the incomparable Cheryl Miller for a conversation that our fans have been asking for for years. In this must-watch episode, Miller takes us through her extraordinary journey that changed women's basketball forever. She breaks down the current explosion of the women's game, offering perspective on superstars Caitlin Clark and JuJu Watkins from someone who revolutionized basketball decades before them. Miller shares what it was like coaching these rising stars at the 2024 WNBA All-Star Game and gives her unvarnished take on the league's newest competitor, Unrivaled.
The conversation goes deep into Miller family lore, with Cheryl revealing intimate stories about her relationship with brother Reggie Miller, including his reaction to her historic 105-point game. Beyond personal stories, Miller delivers a basketball education, reminiscing on the pioneers who built women's basketball and offering expert analysis on international talent revolutionizing both the NBA and WNBA. She even settles the eternal debate, ranking Jordan, Kobe, and LeBron with the authority only a true basketball savant can provide.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode is presented to you by DraftKings. The crown
is yours. Welcome back to all the Smoke. We got
a nice couple of days out here in La Jack.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Yes, happy to be back in La La Land.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
And man, what better way to start it been with
a legend. Legend. We were actually supposed to sit down
with you, and then the La fires broke out.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Yes, and everybody's safe.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
We had to reschedule, but thank you for making time.
Welcome to the show. Cheryl Miller.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Hey, she she is also someone When I first came
in and I did I did T and T once
or twice, she told me that I would be great
in doing media.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
She told me it's long, so she started lying to
you early.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
She told me long to know.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
You know what this is really, this is surreal for
me because watching you young men, you guys are just
my baby starting out in the league, and my microphone
was like kryptonite to summer of y'all. I mean, you
put that like in your face. But now you guys
your own show and interviewers, and it's a it's really
(01:08):
nice to see you guys come full circle.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Three time Player of the Year, two time National championship,
two time tournament MVP, first woman to dunk in an
organized game, go medalist, and that's just a few when
we sit back your Unfortunately, I don't think the game
of women's basketball was ready for you at the time
you came. I think a lot of people say you
were ahead of your time from a standpoint of there
(01:34):
was college and then it was it was kind of
up in the air after that. Talk to us just
about that, I mean, such a dominant We'll get into
the high school and actually the accolades. But what was
it like for you after college? Because now these ladies
have a path to whether they played in the w
or go over season and make a career. What was
(01:54):
it like for you back when you finished college?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
You know, guys, I'm asked question a lot, and it's
it's forced me to really pause and think about it.
I have no regrets, I truly don't. Before me, there
was Anne Myers, there was Nancy Lieberman, there was Lynette Woodard.
So we are basically all in the same boat. Anyways,
(02:18):
you know, somebody had to be the first, and as
far as I was concerned, I was just glad to
know eventually I wasn't the only girl playing basketball and balling.
You know, I'm playing at a high level, but it's
it's been a blessing just to watch the women grow
and watch the women find their voices, use their platforms,
(02:40):
and finally get paid. That's that's that's been. If anything,
the flowers for me is to see their chief growth.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
You recently coached the w BA All Star Game. You
sposed some time with Caitlyn Clark.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Best coaching job ever.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Best the job being around Kaitlin Clark. I was the
experience why she's such a big star. I mean, this
guy's limit for her to be around her. Just talk
about the type of person she is, how much she
loves the game.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I'm gonna be honest because it needs to be said.
I can relate to that young lady, and I felt
for her. I know what it's like to be hated.
I know what it's like to be a black woman
and hated because of my skinned color. I can't imagine
(03:31):
this young lady. I don't want to use hate, but
despised and people just having I mean, and look, I
mean she brought some on herself a little bit because
she's cocky for a good reason.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Confident, and I love that about her.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
But to watch the dynamics and the media, they had
their narrative, and I was pleased and proud to see
the narrative. Wasn't the truth?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Right?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
An angel and her got along so well, and watching
them practice and yeah, yeah, yeah, just get it out,
and Kayle's like, just fly, just fly, just fly, and
watching her pass and I didn't know how talented she
was and how well she sees the game in a
(04:20):
three D version, thinker defensively a lot better than I thought,
and gave her credit for so watching her and just
spending a little time. And one of the guys that
I've learned is to step back and let these kids
be themselves. Look, I speak what I'm spoken to. I'm
not sitting up there knocking on anybody's door offering my
(04:42):
advice because I don't know. I don't know what it's
like to be social media, Instagram this, I don't know
what it's like to be bombarded and have to be
the breadwinner in the family and be a brand and
be worried about what I do or say and everything else.
In twenty four to seven, being pulled in so many
different directions, not knowing I mean throwing the fact that
(05:03):
if I'm insecure, if I've got my own mental issues
going on, who do I talk to. I don't regret
being born when I when I was. I'm in the
right place at the right time. It's just been fascinating
to watch these young ladies come up and now take
the baton and take it to a different level.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
She handled it in in a graceful way as well.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Some of your peers, they like, they will recognize, you know,
her game, but they won't recognize her impact.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
How can you separate the two.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
It's kind of you know, and I used to and
you know, Jack, you're absolutely right. And I was like,
I was like, come on, you big dummies. Is she
getting hyped? Yes, but she was in the backyard. She
was putting in the same time, sometimes maybe more than
you were. I can't fault her for what she was given,
but you know, I mean, look, as much as she
(05:58):
was given, you can't tell me if that door would
have swung the other way where she didn't live up
to the height. Come on, folks are still waiting for
the fall.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Come on.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
So with that being said, you big dummies, you getting
paid now? Can every I mean everybody now has an
opportunity to pull up their chair and have a seat.
So that's that's the only thing. And thank god, I
don't listen, I don't follow social media, and I can
really care less because I've been delivered from being a
(06:29):
people pleaser and what you think about me, me too.
But I will tell you one thing. I'm just glad
that these young ladies who are at the upper upper top,
the upper tier players. I hope and pray that they
have a solid foundation and they know, they know guys
who they are, because you know how vicious it is
(06:52):
out there.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Do you see any correlation with Caitlin and Angel Reese
what they've done for them BBA as to what Magic
and Bird did when they came in at the same time.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Absolutely, right, absolutely, And you know, I'm sure that that
Larry and IRV used to laugh at you know, white
against Black.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, yeah. And they loved each other.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
East Coast WINSCA loved each other, loved each other and
respected one another and understood that this this this rivalry,
this tension, whatever it was, for the betterment of the game.
But they never got caught up into it.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
And those two are the foundation of the great stories
and narratives coming out of the n c a A
now flooding the Dove, which helps the dove. So that's,
you know, my main thing. I want to see how
we as women because again I know they're gonna get
(07:51):
mad at me for saying this. We can be petty,
we can be shortsighted.
Speaker 5 (07:56):
No, no, this is my first.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
We can.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
But I'm just hoping that we can embrace one another
where they're playing for the Dove or you're playing and unrivaled.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Which I love you wish you could got some of that.
I know you was going to watch.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
It that like, come on with the cross out of knees.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yet come.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I got nothing?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Mad love?
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:38):
What and and and that whole league, what they've done
and their mindset and the business aspect and the savviness
and to get there, you know, to build that infrastructure financially,
that was the first thought. And when I saw that,
oh they got this, they got this is about to
roll up. So and I just hope, again backtracking, that
(09:02):
we as women can understand and embrace. We all have
a seat at the table, and it's for the betterment
of the sport.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Support support support. I've seen you sidelines at several SC
games female SC games that I've pulled up to. Juju
has been blazing her trail at SC and slowly but
surely knocking on some doors that you put up. What
are your thoughts on her game and just the way
she's kind of been able to put SC basketball women's
basketball back to the forefront.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
First and foremost. A tremendous talent and for someone who's
been skyrocketed into the spotlight, it's not just the spotlight.
She's playing at USC and you've got the McGee twins,
Cynthia Cooper, myself, Lisa Leslie, Pina Thompson.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
They're Hall of famersamers.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yeah, and now you're expected to not just achieve and arrive,
but you've got to elevate it. You got to make
your next mark. And to watch this young lady come
in as a freshman and poised just even kill you know,
I wanted to see when things got tough, when she
got the wood laid on her, she was laying on
(10:17):
her back, and you know who was helping up or
was she getting herself up? Because I knew she was
going to catch people by surprise. You know, nobody knew,
but that middle and certainly the last latter part of
that season, double triple teams, game plan schemes, everything, How
was she going to make the adjustments? So I was
pleased to see that. And I'm always amazed at how
(10:41):
solid she is as a human being. Certainly a lot
of that is her foundation, family foundation, But there's something
very grounded and rooted in her. I'm not quite sure
where that comes from. If I was to give her
any advice, and I have shared this with there, just
make sure she maintainings and finds that that quiet place
(11:05):
here and here where her family, loved ones, boyfriend, girlfriend, cat, squirrel, dog, whatever,
she has her quiet place where she can just be
juju and no basketball, no nothing, and and find something
that she feels good about doing that's outside of the sport.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
It's important. What are your thoughts on women having to
wait four years to make that jump? Is that an
outdated rule? Do you think it suits the game because
she has to?
Speaker 3 (11:36):
It's a god bless that that rule is there. Yes,
it needs to stay there until you know the dove finally.
Financially can why if you are a top five.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
You're making more money.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
In college?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
No? I would. I would really love to, Like now
that's when you'd see me step out and slap somebody.
I'm like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
What do you think actually going backwards for them?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Big time?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Big time? You hurt your brand early to go. You know, wait, wait, wait,
make this This is your foundation. This is where your
money is, you know, for right now, right now, it's
it's kind of backwards. Where for you guys, the regular
season was where you made your money, but the playoffs
is where you made your fame. So right now, NCAA
(12:26):
where you make.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Your money exactly, the dove is.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Where you make your fame. That's your legacy.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Interesting, there's been a movement of late for you to
gain a later leadership position in the w NBA. People
have been talking and whispering. I don't know if you've
actually heard it, but you have since Do you have
any interest in being a part of any kind of
leadership structure in the w n B A.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
I thought about coaching, Okay, okay, I'll be honest. After
after beating Team U s A and all a sudden,
I was like, yeah, I was like, okay, I'm ready
to get back in there. But then reality said and.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I'm like, there's a lot of work.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
That's a lot of work. There's there's drafting, and then
there's actually communication, and there's getting your staff together, and
then you've got your president, you've got your GM. And yes,
that's too much work a lot.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
What about above that, though? What about it?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Now that you know what, I would love to be
consultant and a consultant in this respect. Bad decision, you stupid.
You need to be fired.
Speaker 6 (13:39):
Bye bye, I I'll do that.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
She could play she you know, trade her? What were
you thinking?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Okay, that's what the game needs.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
There's just now that's like honesty.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
And just you and your feelings. Get old, be quiet.
I'm gonna pray about you.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
But yeah, that's great. Probably that's how gregs to talk
to us.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Hey, I just I'm just about you know. Look, I
just turned sixty one in January.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Related amazing. By the way, Thank you, thank you smoking there,
You're lucky. I'm taking.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Welcome to all the smoke. Welcome to all the smoke.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
We touched on arrivals a little bit. Obviously a league
that has been put together very well. It allows women
to not have to go over the world. Yes, yes,
and make money. The ability to get that many stars
in any sport is incredible. They got the best of
the best from their league. How do you think the
w NBA feels about this and what is the future?
Speaker 3 (14:58):
I don't know for sure, but I can only imagine. Initially,
I'm sure the Dove was in their feelings. But again,
we've got we've got to learn from our successes and
our mistakes. I thought the first three years of the
Dove explosion excitement whatnot. I thought after that they rested
(15:23):
on their laurels and the laurels they didn't do the
leg work. They didn't pick up the phones and make
sure that the same people that are buying these season
tickets that they're still you know, how can we, you know,
make our product better? What do you need? You know,
we stop asking questions and we stop reaching out, and
you know, it was it was dark days for a while.
(15:45):
So I'm hoping that they can embrace it and understand
that that product is just an extension of our product.
How can we make you look even better because it
makes us look better the more leave weeks that come out,
because look, be honest, there's only a certain amount of
spots a certain amount of teams. Not everybody could play
(16:08):
so and there's still some really good quality women out
there that's still and can get tribute, you know. So
I'm I'm I'm saying there's a lot of leagues that
are will be sprouting up that I hope the dub
can sit up there and embrace.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Let's get to your upbringing.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
You say, well, I'm because I'm just thinking about it
from the question. I took a lot of als from
your brother. Uh, I don't even know if I gotta
win every day we shoot, you know before like women
up for games. He used to come like three hours
before us, but he used to come back on warm up.
(16:48):
I'm probably like maybe forty two and forty two. Brother,
How did it feel busting his ass and the driveway
growing up?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
How did that feel?
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Hey? You know what, he suffered a lot of l
He did suffer a lot of l And when I
tied shifted, Oh, it was, oh, it's like yesterday. It
was my freshman year in college, coming home, you know
for Christmas break and the last time I saw rich
(17:20):
she was like maybe you know six' one, you know,
so I still had an inch or something on him.
He was upstairs. I said, come on, man, let's you know,
wake up. Come on, let's go play some ball. He said, yeah, okay,
hold on, I said, come on, man, I got all day,
so I, you know, went on the court and he
came out the sliding last door and that mug was
like six seven okay, all right, all right, he can't
(17:46):
oh he got a little height. So we're just warming up.
He's shooting, but I'm noticing that, you know, the court's
here on the fences back here, and he's dang near
shoulder and shoulder with the fence. I was like, sorry,
he got a little range. He's always been. He's always
been a shooter. And I got the ball. I crossed
(18:09):
him over, got past them and got him the bike
and then hit my fade away. I was like, main nothing,
but oh this is the same. I'm running the shore.
I was like, give me the ball. Junior, Kim here, Junior.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
And your sister talking.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Kimmer Ran Kim and Rad Kim and Red you want
some of this? And I got past some guys. I
was like, and I was laughing to our come on baby,
and I hear pended, pended, and I don't know what happened,
because this is when the whole mental illness things and
(18:55):
things got blurry and went into slow motion. And I
remember like landing and then looking back and he's still
up there, looking down with the ball still pinned, pulled
it down. He goes, I'm gonna give you another trot.
And I was like, then I know something happened because
I heard so the pop and I was like, oh,
I got a hammy. I'm a hammy up hammy. You lucky,
(19:19):
you lucky, you got tight back here, pulled a hammy.
Walked in. Mom's like you okay, baby. I said, yeah,
I'll be all right.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
That's when you knew I was done.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I was done. Tried to come back the next day
and play in a stupid game called horse.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yeah. I know how that feels.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Can't blame in anything. But I got a question for you, then,
what kind of teammate was he?
Speaker 4 (19:49):
I think for me, I played with some you know,
Tim Duck and David Robinson. But I think he gave
me the one of the greatest compliments. He told Donnie Nelson,
I mean Donnie Walshing Larry Bird that he wanted to
come in to be a success because remember he retired
the second year. I got that, and they knew they
would bring somebody into Phillips shoes. I knew I couldn't
be Reggie will know where close, but the fact that
(20:11):
he spoke up for me to bring me in. He
was the best teammate of that team should have won
a championship. And we all regret that because we owed
that to Reggie. But the team wouldn't have been the
team it was, wouldn't have been together and able to
come back and make it to the playoffs. We made
to the playoffs still and want to be Boston in
the first round. That was all because of the teammate
and the leader your brother was.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
I remember you said. I mean, that was one thing
that Jack definitely said. He's like, that brawl, you know happened.
It is what it is. But he said, the thing
they regret the most is that let your brother down
because they felt like that team was capable of winning
a championship.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
I remember watching that that that whole thing happened, and
it was surreal watching Meta run at the time and
he's on the scorer's table and right, and he had
that injury. He was hurt and I remember he has
his hand on his chest and he just for a
(21:08):
split second and then run's up in the stands.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
The only person wrong listened to was Reggie.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I remember calling Reggie and I'm not afterwards because I
had the process that I know that Reggie had to
process that. And I go, I said, how you doing?
He goes. He goes, Cheryl, They're gonna they're gonna lower
the boom. We're going to get a death sentence. He goes, Cheryl.
(21:35):
He's like, Dean, we could have want this, we could
have want this whole thing. And to hear to hear
that in his voice and yeah, that that that was tough.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Any time you talked to him about it, you can
see it. You can see it like we had a
conversation before. You know, we we and we we get
emotional because we know.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
What does that look? Jackson goes look, yeah, yeah, And
I'm like, man, man, oh man.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Every time somebody asks Reggie about me and Ron, though
he speaks so highly of us like that, he gives
them the opposite of what every time.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
He gives everybody ample opportunity to like sive you guys,
but he loved you guys. He absolutely loved you guys,
because what was the word what was the phrase? He goes,
he goes those, he goes those guys. Cheryl never broke character.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, never broke characters.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
You gotta you have to receive goes. I respect guys
who they never broke character.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
What was he thinking when you scored one hundred and
five points in a single game?
Speaker 3 (22:43):
He was happy until he found about about that. But no,
he's he came home and we you know, because we
played when I was at home, he was on the
road with the you know, the boys team, and and
my dad was like, well, I can't wait till you.
I don't know how you read how Reggie's going to
handle it.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I know you guys are not interrupt You guys are
two grades apart, right to you, one one grade apart,
two years apart, one one year, yes, yes, yes, one grade.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
So he came home and he's like, dang, guess what
I was killing him today? I said, go ahead, what happened?
He said, Oh, I think he's had something like you know,
I scored thirty six. I was making the rain everywhere
everything I was just falling. It was falling, and my
Dad's just sitting at the count.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Oh yeah, matter, fuck your day up right.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Reggie goes so and he goes, how'd you go? I
had a good game? Reg He goes, oh, okay, well,
you know, because you guys got to understand. He goes, well,
he started with the number fifty. Well, I had scored
fifty four before, I had scored sixty one before, I
had scored seventy seven before. He had a few numbers
to play with.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
He had a few numbers to play with, so he said.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
What's so, yeah, fifty, I said no, and he looks
at my dad, and my dad's like, he goes, okay, sixty. No,
he goes, now, he looks like he said that sick
feeling like that sick look. He's like, start stuttering, yeah,
(24:32):
seventy and he goes no. He goes He's like, do
you know I'm divorcing? I said, because I gotta make it.
I gotta make it work for the number. And he goes,
what I said? Uh. He goes, he said, you did
you say? I said, I said one hundred and five
(24:53):
and he just lets out this. He's like, mom, I
can't win. Yeah, when that's not fair. My dad and
I were just cracking up.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
But yeah, you.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
Think anybody scored one hundred in the w A or NBA.
I think it happened in the men's game.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Yeah, right now, we don't know in the women's game.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
I wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I'm waiting for somebody to put up seventy.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
Did you have a play at U c l A
men's gym? Yes, you heard, we heard you was out
there busting me and ass in there. Yes, how was that?
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Matter of fact? I oh, that was Remember Mike dunne.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yvy coach do Yeah, Mike Dunley.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yeah, he would get out there and play a shack
when he first came in. We get out there, IRV
all the guys.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
He was out there styling. I was.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
I was holding my I didn't go home with my
head hanging.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah. Yeah, I would have loved to see that.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
But I'll tell you one thing. They didn't make it easy.
They didn't easy, I can you know, and because oh
my god, and they would serve it right back up
to me. And I love that, And you know what,
to be honest, that's a blessing in itself. And maybe
that's one of the main reasons why making that transition
(26:17):
into broadcasting into the NBA that you guys gave me
so much respect and stuff. You know, so I appreciate
you guys.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Because we know you spoke from experience. You really did it, Yeah,
you really did.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
I did some things.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Our instrumental was your pops, military guy, to raise two
competitive athletes great athletes.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I don't know how y'all wasn't twined. Y'all look so
much alike, But is he?
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Is he the reason for the competitive competitives and the
ship talking.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
No, Reggie did that. That was that was already. That
was that was already. Reggie did that out of necessity
in the in the household, because you got Reggie Reggie
growing up, he just physically he was thin. He had
some physical ailments about him. He was not need and
(27:11):
he had to have his knees reset and just just
pop belly bad hair conditioning up.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
You know, how would you explain Reggie's jump shot, the
genesis of his jump shot throughout the year, because.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
A lot of it was, you know, because I was
always in his face, so he would almost it would
almost click. And I don't know how many countless coaches
tried to change his shot. Then my Dad's like, don't
mess with the shot. Don't you touch his shot. You
could work on anything else, but leave his shot alone.
(27:53):
Because my dad was a firm believer. That's something that
you day in, day out practice, and that was part
of it. And there's certain adjustments you can make. But
the way he shot and it was almost looked like
he was pushing it, but he wasn't. It was it
was really really unique. But what my dad did and
(28:14):
instilled in all of us was if you start something,
you finish it. There was no quitting and you gave
your very best, whether it was in basketball, baseball, football,
ping pong, monopoly, spades, trouble, whatever it was, you just
(28:35):
you did your very best and there were no excuses,
no excuses. So we had two older brothers I was
smack Dad in the middle Reggie, and a younger sister,
so it was built in competition.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
You led sc to back to back national titles and
were named tournament.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
I was one. I was one of many on that team.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Yeah you helped, thank.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
You, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
I assisted. I love that I assisted.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
But you were also named MVP both times, so you
did a little bit more than that. What was the
environment like back then, I mean, obviously the press. I'm
a UCLA guy, but always had a lot of respect
for what SC has always meant in the sports world.
What was l A like back then?
Speaker 2 (29:15):
For you?
Speaker 3 (29:16):
This is the one thing that did bother me, you know,
forget you sl A. You know, just the rivalry. What
really used to mess with all the sisters, like the
female athletes at SC. Why did all the good looking
brothers go to U S l A.
Speaker 6 (29:35):
I don't know, real, I don't know, I don't know, Jack, Like,
that's not just you know, I mean.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
I need to hear this today.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
This is this is why our Liz was like, come on,
but yeah, yeah, but anyways, I'm just thinking about all
the guys that used okay, may get me go somewhere Russian.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Never sure saying huh what was that? I mean, I remember,
you know, us playing there. We never really looked at it.
I don't think maybe the school or that the students
looked at it.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Like.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
I didn't have an issue with nobody on s C.
I actually loved SC football because that's back when they
had Reggie Bush and all those guys. Like, did you
guys look at it as like f U C l A.
Or was it just more fun?
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Of it was. It was it was a rivalry.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
USC in the hood, though, ain't it. Yeah?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Oh back in the day, Oh, back in the day.
It was like, you know, you get your game on
like this and then you know, you cross the street.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I heard yeah, making sure you know.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
In the middle of it.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
It was no joke. You turned down that wrong alley
if you want to. And that was another thing. Yeah,
we we lived in real Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm more USC than Yah about that.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
But no, when it came to when it came to
to basketball and Reggie, yeah, I mean I I wouldn't
wear anything you sel a, but I made sure that
there was nobody up in the stands that had a
thought in their mouth.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah yeah, I love it, do it. This is the same.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
I mean, the same time you're you're winning championships, the
Showtime Lakers are winning championships as well.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
So what is.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Right?
Speaker 3 (31:35):
We were Showtime. Look, our our practices were brutal. I've
got Cynthia Cooper running her mouth. Tracy Longo, nobody remember
well she was my height, white girl that could jump
out the gym, and we battled each other throughout high school.
You had the McGee twins, and you know, we had
(31:56):
Ronda Windham, a point guard from the Bronx, so we
had little bit of everything. So our practices coached just
basically rolled out the ball was great in allowing us
to be who we are. Our personalities would step in
when we you know, got a little twisted. But the
games were the fun part, practices where we honed ourselves,
(32:19):
our skills and everything else. We had to check our
egos at the you know, and that was our captain,
Juleett Robinson. Check your ego at the door. And once
we stepped on the floor, it was about business.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
It was.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
And then you had the you know, we had Magic
and the Lakers and you know them coming in occasionally
watching us play. And we were playing at the time
at the Sports Arena. So yeah, we were showtime.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
I'm gonna give you some names.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
I want you to tell me what you think.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Debs just like a brother. She was a rebounder, Dennis
sister right the family.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Yeah, Pam McGee did her dirty in the in the
championship game because she got in her ear started talking
to her, say, I can't believe Kim Moulky just missed
that you were wide open. You had me pinned talking
to her throughout the gain. Man, I can't believe Kim
Moulkey just sat Janice Lawrence. Won't you even to pass
you Out's a high loan and you got me pinned
behind And then all of a sudden she starts talking,
(33:28):
why did you give any the ball? Kim? Now there's
a I mean, so she talented, but she yeah, she
she had some things going on like.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Her, like her brother.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Pam McGee one of my former teammates, Mom JaVale McGee's mom.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Pam hardest working block, the block, hustle, rebounder, will not
be denied on the boards. Physical funny. Would you know
she would pause to think sometimes I'm like, are you
hearing something? But I now know she was just pausing
the thing, you know. Yeah, great teammate, Great teammates Cynthia
(34:06):
Cooper who we could not see I to eye on anything.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Shacking Kobe.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Oh it was, And I will say she was. She
was Kobe and I had some shock in her because
I had I had some shock in me. Where Kobe,
you can be you, but you ain't gonna tell me
how to do?
Speaker 2 (34:36):
You know?
Speaker 3 (34:36):
And I would. I would sit there, I'm like, Cooper,
do you ever shut up? Let me just add, I
just do you ever shut up? And older?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Older?
Speaker 3 (34:47):
And and I was, look, coming out of high school,
you're hearing you the end all be all. I started
drinking my kool laid at a very young age. So
now I got this other mouth who wants to go
at me. I've got, you know, and I'm look. I
(35:07):
knew I was good, but I didn't believe I was good.
So I was I was insecure. So you're gonna challenge me.
I ain't gonna ain't no punk. I mean live at Riverside,
but I ain't no punk. So she would come out
from Wats and she would say that I'm from I'm.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Like an.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Taste the same, yeah, the same want you know, I mean,
And we were sitting I mean, you know, and you
know the twins are like, sure she's from Watson. That
with Papa. I don't care, no no, but on the court, simpotico, simpotico.
But I will say one thing, A couple of things
(35:46):
about Cynthia, a self made, driven superstar Hall of Famer,
so well deserved.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
But not least Kim Mulkey oh, coach.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
I used to call her dead of South. You're just
dead of South. So that South South, brilliant basketball mind,
tremendous IQ, great floor general, fierce competitor, is the one
one of the should have been the starter of the
(36:27):
Olympic team.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Hands down. Really who was the starter?
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Lee Henry m hmm?
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Interesting and.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
That was Pat's player, Pat Summitt, the late great Pat Summits.
But Kim Moulkey, hands down, should have been the starter
because I'm telling you when when she would come in,
she's like, Miller, I just need you to fly. You
just fly, I'll get the ball to her. She would
get that ball. She already knew where everybody was because
(37:00):
she could play the game with her eyes closed and
would know what passed when aheaded timing and everything else,
barking this, knew your position, your cut, where you should
have been. I can't believe you're still out here, I
mean everything. So to watch her and to play against her,
playing against her was a pain. Playing with her a joy.
(37:23):
No surprise at her success as a head coach.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Is she misunderstood. She kind of gets a bad rap.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Now just swagging. She's doing it her way.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Man, Kim is Kim Kim Kim wait Kim is never broke,
never broke character.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Huh. I love that, never broke character.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
What you see is what you get if you don't
like it.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Bucket Fresh too.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, she just you know, she's she's
the female.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Libaraci nineteen eighty two, the first woman ever to dunk.
I don't know if on record. We did a lot
of research in an organized game.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
So so you just we gotta stop you. Now you're
gonna take your flowers from us. You've been trying to
deny him and weave them and all that, and you're
gonna sit it and take your flowers from us today.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I'm take them.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Look, because you guys, they'll fat fat.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
We do a lot of research. We do a lot
of research, you know.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
But there's no there's a Georgiana Wells, Dylan see Georgiana
Wells I believe was the first recorded player.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Is that in the game or just in the game?
Oh really in the game?
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Okay, Georgiana Wells. Georgiana Wells, go.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Ahead, we'll google that. Well what did that mean to
you that day, in that moment to put a dunk
down in the game?
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Extra, that's kool Aid Baby extra extra sugar tips?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Was it analine like it was.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
A take flight? What was what? There were dunks, but
they weren't considered dunks where I would get a tip
dunk because she just pushed the ball in. And you know,
back then, it was like they, oh, she just pushed
the boat.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
It was dump dump.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
And now my dad said, you know, you do know
you dunk that. I said, but they said, I pushed
it in. He's like, here you go. But once I
it was a it was a breakaway still and it
was one of those you guys have been on those floors.
There's something about the floor.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Stanford used to yeah, Stamford, Oh, sacrament to me, no, Stanford, SA,
Sacramento was like that. Stanford used to have a springy floor.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Man, Stamford, you kid. Yeah. As soon as I got
that still and I hit the free throw line, I
crossed over and I took off where.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
I know him. I'm like, okay, I'm up here.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Y hit it and I landed and I started running
back and all my teammates are running over, were high
five and the stuff and the official I look back
in the she's just taking a ball in that and
He's just standing there like.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Did It's like, what the I was like, that's me.
That's me, baby, that's me.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Obviously heavily decorated college career, drafted by several leagues after college,
including the usb L, which is the men's league. Did
you ever consider possibly playing with men?
Speaker 2 (40:22):
She grew up. I mean, you know what you don't.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
You don't hang out in the summer at U c
l A and not get a big dose pointing with
the big boys of reality, you know. And I certainly
I didn't have the handles to be a point guard,
not even close of what that and that's the only
position I could have played. But physically, like physically no, no,
I mean it would have been nice to actually try it,
(40:49):
but by that time I had blown up my knee.
That was you know, that was the determining factor for
me in basketball. That's when we parted ways. And that's
all she wrote.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Do you feel like, and I mean you if if
anyone one could have it could have possibly been you.
Do you feel like, what is the difference outside of
strength and speed with women being able to possibly cross
over and play man. Have you feel like there has
been a woman that could have crossed over and played
with the men.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
No, no, it is. It is straight a physical barrier
that just in my lifetime right now, I don't believe
I'll ever see. I just don't. I don't see because
you guys continue to get bigger, stronger, and faster. I mean,
I would have never thought that you'd have a seven
(41:35):
to seven kid, no shooting threes. You know, shooting threes
and you know it's just we there. There's that evolution
gap that will never be closed between a man and
a woman.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Interesting. I don't want to butcher her name, but the
seventh foot sylviet.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Woman, Juleanna Simonova, woman nova?
Speaker 2 (41:53):
What was she like?
Speaker 1 (41:54):
I mean dominant? You got a chance to come up
in the same time, all.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Right, pitcher? Yeah, all mean okay, picture of this, y'all
mean two inches?
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Is that boy shorts?
Speaker 4 (42:08):
No?
Speaker 3 (42:09):
They those were like the like briefs.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
They're like yeah, no, no, no, that's that's a onesie.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
That's a onesie. No no, no, no, no, that was
a separate talk got nothing.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
Like the So she had the jersey top with the
granny panty bottom. Yes, crazy, yeah, no, no, what the top?
Speaker 2 (42:26):
That's crazy?
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Now, it's not the bell that's the trail on the
end of the jersey.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
No, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
What was her game like.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Back to the basket? I mean, what were you going
to do?
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Right?
Speaker 3 (42:37):
Didn't have you know, obviously it wasn't tremendous foot speed,
but at seven to two and could get up the floor.
But all she had to do was get down the
floor anywhere and on the block and it's a wrap.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah, it's a rap.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Trying to get past her in the middle, it's a rap.
What the Soviet team was so great at You had
eighty year old women who had played together since they
were in cribs coming out of the cribs. So you
had a professional team for Daming. They're close to fifty
years and it was a stranglehold on international basketball and
(43:13):
their players. The permimeter players were faster, stronger, better shooters.
They were a machine and then you put that in
the middle. They were unbeatable.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
When did you feel like you guys caught up on
the international side, the women?
Speaker 3 (43:28):
It started, matter of fact, in seventy nine. It was
I wanted to say a few of the members was
Nancy Lieberman, An Myers Drysdale, Carol Blas Jawski and Lynette Woodard.
They were in Soul, Korea. I don't know if it
was the World Championships or the Jones Cup, but they
(43:50):
finally beat them in nineteen seventy nine, and then we
got them in eighty six, and after that it was
a round. Yeah, it was the decline of the Soviet.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Why do you feel that there's so many European I
use that as a broad name men coming over and
having a ton of success, but we don't see as
many women coming over from there.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
That's a great question, that's a really good question. I'm
not sure if they're not experiencing the same obstacles we
did early on because there was such an investment and
not only the men's college game and AAU and all that,
but their club teams are far superior internationally, So I'm
(44:40):
not sure there's been that catch up between a lot
of great institution college institutions internationally as there is in
the United States. So I think that's been kind of
a step, a stepping stone unfortunately, set or barrier for
(45:02):
for international players. It's gotten better, but it's not the
influx that you see with the men. The men are
coming out and they're just tremendous And let me ask.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
You that, Yeah has been ahead of the current. Are
you gone? He's been getting girls overseas for a while.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
He's been He's been plucking him from the national he
knows teams. What do you think will there ever be
an international player that will be the face of the NBA?
Speaker 2 (45:32):
I think so.
Speaker 4 (45:33):
I think I think we're real closer than ever with
Lebron stepping down. Guys like Anthony l was coming out
saying they don't want to be the face, Like I
think it's going to be given to one of those
international guys.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
I think so. I think I think might be the guy.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
Is that? What's the stigma?
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Or we heard Kad talk about that the other day,
Like what does it mean?
Speaker 2 (45:52):
What does it mean?
Speaker 1 (45:53):
What does that come with? What is the face of
the game? Come with a lot of praise, a lot
of critique, a lot of ship talking, a lot of disrespect.
And this is a different generation, Like we said we
kind of in KG always us we had to look
at this new generation through a new lens and their
wants and needs and wise are a lot different than ours.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Work, So how didn't want.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
How different is the game? Since you guys played, honestly,
what's what's your take?
Speaker 2 (46:18):
I look at it like this. We love the game,
they love the game, can do form big difference, and.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
I just think too. I mean, obviously, the plan was
to grow this into a global game, and we came
in at the end of a really physical era, and
there was still some physicality in the late nineties early
two thousand we first came in, and that's kind of disappeared,
you know what I mean. I think scoring is at
the utmost, three point shootings at the utmost, and highlights
have what been able to me to grow the game,
(46:46):
you know what I mean. I have sixteen year old
twins that are good players, but they don't watch games
that I'll just watch the recap in the morning on
my phone, you know what I mean. So it's just
like it's driven around highlights, and I think, you know,
that's a huge deeper conversation, but I just don't think
the Maybe there's just so much other ship to do.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Now that's it.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
That's lock in and stay focused. I also say too,
I mean, it's just you know, I think that money
international players are talented enough to be the face, but
I don't know if they'll ever be an international player
could be probably deserving, but I don't know if they'll
ever be one as the face of an American game.
Speaker 4 (47:25):
And international players attitude still is like our attitude if
we don't show up and play, we're gonna lose our job.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
They don't.
Speaker 4 (47:32):
American players don't feel like that we're gonna get the job.
The jobs is here for us. But then now in
the national players that's coming over, it's not a lot
of them, so they feel like, I got to show
up and play every night to keep my job, and
that's that was our attitude.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Is then in trouble, yes, if they don't get back
to the competitives.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
From a marketing standpoint, I think so.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
I wouldn't say they are because you got to look
at the just look at the Luca move, Like, look
what that's going to do to the Luca coming to
the Lakers. The Lakers are already the biggest brand in
the world. How much bigger they're gonna get over the
water now because Luca is wearing that seventy seven jersey.
I don't know if they'll be in trouble. I think
they'll be puris to like, how are these you know,
international players running the game. They'll be frustrated, but I
(48:12):
still think those guys are coming over and playing real
good basketball.
Speaker 3 (48:15):
So the NBA survives because of the influx of talented
and international.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
Players, right, But see that can hurt the league too,
Like just say Luca become the face of the league.
You give the faces of the league as somebody who
doesn't play defense, who doesn't work, you know all the.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Things they saying about him. So this is the face
of the league.
Speaker 4 (48:30):
So that's the bad part about it, right, You want
somebody like, for me, Russell Westbrook should be the face
of the league. Where he approaches the game. He don't
get no trouble off the court. Every game he played
one hundred ten percent. Do we play to the standard
of defans, No, not every night, but the effort is
there and he's showing up. That's what you're playing for,
you know what I'm saying. And people don't understand that
(48:51):
side of it. We're not just paying to see somebody
that everybody knows show up in the uniform and really
not care.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
We know you really don't care. That's that's how I
look at it. As a player.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
I mean, they say, you know, ratings are down thirty
plus percent. But they also say that social media it's.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
Never been bigger really, because we're in social media area.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Social media and the engagement with NBA around the world
has never been bigger than it is.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
That's what they count.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
But the linear numbers are down, but that's older people
who sit and watch TV. That's not necessarily the demo anymore.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
I just can't wait for the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
There, you got it.
Speaker 4 (49:23):
The business is great business. All they care about, yes,
all they care about and it's showing. It's showing you
care more about the business than the actual game. But
I think that I mean, Adam Silver has some work
to do. He has some things to figure out, you know,
what to do with his all star situation, you know
what to do with that hot Is load management going
to be something that will always be here? Will guys
ever be allowed to get back to playing physical defense?
(49:45):
I mean, I think there are some questions that need
to be answered, because again, the product hasn't and I
wouldn't say it's bad again because it's just a different
type of game, but it's not the standard that the
NBA has kind of hung their hat on for a
long time. I feel like these kids now are more
skilled than ever, but I feel like their IQ is
a little lower because their training is always one on one,
head down, like.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
What do I do off the ball?
Speaker 1 (50:06):
And that's why I think your international players come in
and play well, because they play such a great team
concept and understand how to play off the ball.
Speaker 4 (50:14):
But I think Grigs probably need to come back and
explain what low management is because they took the They
didn't took for what he was using. Oh my god,
they took it and twisted it to a whole where
you can just sit out and get paid and don't play.
That why that ain't why Pop did it. That ain't
why Pop did it.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
He did it.
Speaker 4 (50:29):
He starts sitting guys in the season going into the
playoffs because guys played a lot of minutes doing those
eighty two games. They probably missed one or two games.
And it was only guys like Tim Duncan, David Robinson.
It wasn't none of the young guys. You're gonna play regardless,
you know what I'm saying. So now you got guys
who two years in the league low manager, Like, come on, now,
that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (50:48):
That is it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Pop get a chance to put his influence on the league.
It'll get back. It'll get back.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Quick hitters. First thing to come to mind. Let us know,
top five women hoopers.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
Of all time. I'm gonna put you on the spot.
You in there?
Speaker 1 (51:03):
What top five women hoopers of all time?
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Not gonna do it on top five you've played with?
Speaker 3 (51:09):
Really not gonna do.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
You're not putting in the trick bag.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
Now, you know what if you'd asked me that question
maybe a year or two ago, three years ago, when
I wasn't trying to be around women's basketball, I'd have
thrown so many people under the bus. Now now that
I'm trying, now that I'm trying.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
To everybody, one thing I respected this whole interview is
every time we asked a question, you kind of sit
back and take a deep breath first because I feel
like some ship want to come out. But then you
give us something like just what you said right now?
Speaker 2 (51:45):
You know what that is?
Speaker 3 (51:46):
That's the Holy spirit?
Speaker 2 (51:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (51:51):
Alright, Lord, I ain't gonna say nothing Lord like that.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
What's your guilty pleasure? Wow?
Speaker 4 (51:55):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (51:56):
There? There They're on a week day, a week after
weekday afternoon walking up to Universal Studios and watching a matinee.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
Really, that's dope.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
That's it, just walking up there watching depending on the movie.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
That's some of the best sleep have you in the
movie My God?
Speaker 3 (52:18):
And you know the ones and you know the seats
ever since?
Speaker 1 (52:20):
Yes, and it's dark and the set failure.
Speaker 3 (52:24):
That's it. That's it.
Speaker 1 (52:29):
I love it absolutely one album, unrepeat.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
Ohio State Players.
Speaker 5 (52:35):
Ohio Players, Love Train, Love Train, five, Dinner gainst Dead,
are Alive five plus five dead or alive?
Speaker 3 (52:46):
Doctor King, Michelle Obama, Will Chamberlain.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
You get a chance to meet him?
Speaker 3 (52:53):
Yes, the stories I can tell about that in this way,
Will was a player?
Speaker 1 (53:02):
Play off the course the word I ain't the word.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
Play, I hain't the word.
Speaker 3 (53:13):
We ain't talking about basketball.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
And off the court, off the course, indeed, what am I?
Speaker 3 (53:23):
What am I to?
Speaker 2 (53:24):
More?
Speaker 3 (53:25):
Maya, Angelou and Jesus.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
One message to young female hoopers.
Speaker 3 (53:31):
Don't drink your kool aid.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
Oh okay, I don't drink your own cool aid.
Speaker 3 (53:35):
Don't drink your own kool aid.
Speaker 4 (53:37):
Red orange, simple, purple, purple blue. Yeah, we didn't say
the flavor was yeah, the color. If you can see
one guest on our show, who would it be? But
you have to help us get your answer on the show. Yeah,
I mean we haven't had your god damn brother yet.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
God damn. I mean, I didn't want to say it. Bro.
I got down. I hit him for this, he said.
I didn't talk to him a million times.
Speaker 3 (53:57):
You can't get him on the show.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
We ain't turning us down.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
He just always busy. He's in Milwaukee, he said, this
weekend or this this run for us him on that
damn bike.
Speaker 3 (54:07):
Tell the ped.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
Well you you help us and with me and jackill
continue to work on. We love to sit down with
your brother.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
That's some story. Now you want some story.
Speaker 3 (54:18):
Oh no, you talking about your story about you? About
I want to hear about Larry Brown and how that
wasn't you know, what what was it like to really
be coached by Larry Bird.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
Brown Bird Bird, I wasn't coached by Larry I know.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
That's what I want to I want.
Speaker 4 (54:37):
He was a great he was a great president and
gentle amount of team. That's who called me and gave
me my biggest contract. Like I was in my neighborhood,
sitting in the corner with my friends, and I got
a phone call from Lar Bird and put I'm like, y'all,
Slarry Bird. Everybody got up, start rolling up instantly. I'm like,
and Larry Bird told me, welcome to the Indiana Paces.
(54:57):
We're giving you such such contract. And that's that's all
he had to do for me. I'm in death for life.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, So he calls
what were you expecting him to call? For? What reason?
Speaker 4 (55:09):
Or No?
Speaker 2 (55:09):
I wasn't expecting him to call.
Speaker 4 (55:10):
I was getting ready to sign with the Pacers, right,
and I thought, Donnie Washington, my agent, was gonna call me.
Speaker 2 (55:17):
So you got the call, Larry. They told Larry to
call in my neighborhood.
Speaker 4 (55:21):
You had to be hyped on that one went crazy,
you know that one of the calls, you get up
and everybody take off running.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
One of them, one of them phone calls.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
I'll never forget it. Larry Bird called me.
Speaker 3 (55:30):
All right, I had a quick question for you guys.
Toughest player you ever played against offensively?
Speaker 2 (55:37):
Kobe defensively run a test really by far? This is good.
He can win MVP at Defensive Player the Year multiple
years if this was right.
Speaker 3 (55:47):
Yes, best coach you ever played for.
Speaker 4 (55:49):
I'm gonna give you a best and favorite Okay, best
by fars, Greg Popovich favorite Don Nelson because he believed
in me, he believed it.
Speaker 1 (55:59):
I would say best, Damn. I played for some great coaches.
I would say best is probably Phil Jackson because Phil
and Phil, if you were able to get on that court,
it is only because he trusted you. So that's why
he just sat there and lets you let us play.
Phil didn't do too much screaming and barking and ship.
He sat on his extended super high chair. And if
(56:21):
you were able to get on the court for him,
that means he really trusted and believed in you.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
We both played for some great coaches, Love Brown, Mike Brown.
Speaker 1 (56:29):
Rick Adaman. For me, Stanvean, it was a good coach.
He just phoned out his mouth every time he talked,
but he was a good coach.
Speaker 2 (56:35):
Coach.
Speaker 3 (56:36):
All right, My last final question. You're probably not gonna
answer this, but I'm gonna put you guys on the spot.
Laziest teammate that could have been great?
Speaker 1 (56:43):
Oh oh oh for.
Speaker 4 (56:45):
Me, laziest teammate that could have been great? David Harrison,
Remember David, Yeah, he was with us in fight out.
Speaker 3 (56:54):
He was crazy, bro.
Speaker 4 (56:55):
But I'm telling you three hundred pounds with a forty
plust vertical M hmm, unbelievable. By can catch can run
all that?
Speaker 2 (57:03):
Just up here? Bro is up here.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
I wouldn't, I don't. I don't want to use the
word lazy. I would use maybe it was tracted and
could have been great? Was Baron Davis. I don't want
to say lazy because I don't really I wasn't around
at the business all the other ship.
Speaker 3 (57:19):
I think Baron could have been in damn firm or lazy.
Speaker 2 (57:23):
He was lazy, no, no, nois He was lazy.
Speaker 3 (57:33):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (57:34):
All his energy was at the clubs. He used to
show up to practice with no shoes on because he
left the shoes in the club. This type of person
we're talking.
Speaker 1 (57:41):
About, that's crazy. That's crazy. I want to ask you
one last question for we get you out of here,
all right. And you didn't give us the women's side,
so you got to give us this side. Rank these
three in order your order, m J. Kobe Lebron, you're
gonna do that one. Come on now, even running all day,
we let you slide on the other ones.
Speaker 3 (57:59):
Kobe Lebron, No one knows where I live.
Speaker 2 (58:09):
Oh your brother, do though?
Speaker 3 (58:11):
You guys can't get a hold of them.
Speaker 2 (58:13):
So I.
Speaker 3 (58:21):
Gotta go with m J. Lebron and then Kobe, and
not at all you can because when you look at Lebron, Lebron,
in my opinion too, it's the greatest phenomenal specimen of
a specimen of an athlete physically, a physical I don't
(58:49):
know if we'll ever see a physical marvel of someone
of his magnitude. And it's just not it's his. You
got to take that and the longevity everything, Okay, Lebron, MJ.
Speaker 1 (59:08):
Kobe, I ain't mad at that.
Speaker 2 (59:09):
I ain't at that.
Speaker 3 (59:11):
You can talk to me. I've got it. I just
got from longevity and he is still balling.
Speaker 1 (59:18):
And not to mention all that. I mean, I'll be
talking basketball all the great shit he does off the
court as well.
Speaker 3 (59:22):
You know what, This is why these guys are great interviewers.
Don't give me all these particulars afterwards. Oh, you can
include this, include that he's a social activist.
Speaker 2 (59:31):
And all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (59:32):
But you know what, if you put that, then it's
clearly Lebron of what he does off the court things
that yeah, I And then okay, now if you're gonna
add activism to it, then it's gonna be Lebron Kobe
and then MJ. If you're gonna throw that in there,
because Kobe has done so much not only for for
(59:55):
your game, but for women's game and.
Speaker 4 (59:57):
What his daughter g would have a lot of stuff.
All those guys do don't get highlighted, as I.
Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Agree, And that's what I love about about certain athletes.
You never know what their left hand is doing. Right.
You may see this, but you never know what their
left is. And I respect that.
Speaker 4 (01:00:16):
I respect players that so many old folks, homes that
in the hospitals that MJ and built in his mom's name.
A lot of people don't talk about that either, you
know what I mean. So they all do great things.
Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
So it's then one, two three better than.
Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Any order.
Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
You see.
Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
You can't go wrong first, and they're still there's still building,
building and contributing.
Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
What y man.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
We appreciate your time and and honor done for the
game and and and and continue to do.
Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
We got some thank you the books.
Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
There got a book and some shirts and.
Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
I appreciate that, guys, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
That's a wrap that's ours. We got a coffee table
book that's a wrap. Cheryl one of the greatest to
ever do it. A great player, but even better person.
You can catch this on all the Smoke Productions YouTube
and the DraftKings Network. We'll see y'all next week, speaks.
Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
To the Plannet.
Speaker 7 (01:01:30):
I go by the name of Charlamagne the God, and
guess what. I can't wait to see y'all at the
third annual Black Effect Podcast Festival. That's right with coming
back to Atlanta, Georgia, Saturday, April twenty six at Poeman
Yards and it's hosted by none other than Decisions, Decisions,
mand B and Weezy. Okay, we got the R and
B Money podcast with taking Jay Valentine.
Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
We got the Woman of All.
Speaker 7 (01:01:50):
Podcasts with Sarah Jake Roberts. We got Good Mom's Bad Choices.
Carrie Champion will be there with her next sports podcast,
and the Trap Nerds podcast with more to be announced.
And of course it's bigger than podcasts. We're bringing the
Black Effect marketplace with black owned businesses, plus the food
truck caught to keep you fed while you visit us.
All right, listen, you don't want to miss this. Tap
in and grab your tickets now at Black Effect dot
(01:02:13):
Com Flash Podcast Festival,
This episode is presented to you by DraftKings. The crown
is yours. Welcome back to all the Smoke. We got
a nice couple of days out here in La Jack.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Yes, happy to be back in La La Land.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
And man, what better way to start it been with
a legend. Legend. We were actually supposed to sit down
with you, and then the La fires broke out.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Yes, and everybody's safe.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
We had to reschedule, but thank you for making time.
Welcome to the show. Cheryl Miller.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Hey, she she is also someone When I first came
in and I did I did T and T once
or twice, she told me that I would be great
in doing media.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
She told me it's long, so she started lying to
you early.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
She told me long to know.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
You know what this is really, this is surreal for
me because watching you young men, you guys are just
my baby starting out in the league, and my microphone
was like kryptonite to summer of y'all. I mean, you
put that like in your face. But now you guys
your own show and interviewers, and it's a it's really
(01:08):
nice to see you guys come full circle.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Three time Player of the Year, two time National championship,
two time tournament MVP, first woman to dunk in an
organized game, go medalist, and that's just a few when
we sit back your Unfortunately, I don't think the game
of women's basketball was ready for you at the time
you came. I think a lot of people say you
were ahead of your time from a standpoint of there
(01:34):
was college and then it was it was kind of
up in the air after that. Talk to us just
about that, I mean, such a dominant We'll get into
the high school and actually the accolades. But what was
it like for you after college? Because now these ladies
have a path to whether they played in the w
or go over season and make a career. What was
(01:54):
it like for you back when you finished college?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
You know, guys, I'm asked question a lot, and it's
it's forced me to really pause and think about it.
I have no regrets, I truly don't. Before me, there
was Anne Myers, there was Nancy Lieberman, there was Lynette Woodard.
So we are basically all in the same boat. Anyways,
(02:18):
you know, somebody had to be the first, and as
far as I was concerned, I was just glad to
know eventually I wasn't the only girl playing basketball and balling.
You know, I'm playing at a high level, but it's
it's been a blessing just to watch the women grow
and watch the women find their voices, use their platforms,
(02:40):
and finally get paid. That's that's that's been. If anything,
the flowers for me is to see their chief growth.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
You recently coached the w BA All Star Game. You
sposed some time with Caitlyn Clark.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Best coaching job ever.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Best the job being around Kaitlin Clark. I was the
experience why she's such a big star. I mean, this
guy's limit for her to be around her. Just talk
about the type of person she is, how much she
loves the game.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I'm gonna be honest because it needs to be said.
I can relate to that young lady, and I felt
for her. I know what it's like to be hated.
I know what it's like to be a black woman
and hated because of my skinned color. I can't imagine
(03:31):
this young lady. I don't want to use hate, but
despised and people just having I mean, and look, I
mean she brought some on herself a little bit because
she's cocky for a good reason.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Confident, and I love that about her.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
But to watch the dynamics and the media, they had
their narrative, and I was pleased and proud to see
the narrative. Wasn't the truth?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Right?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
An angel and her got along so well, and watching
them practice and yeah, yeah, yeah, just get it out,
and Kayle's like, just fly, just fly, just fly, and
watching her pass and I didn't know how talented she
was and how well she sees the game in a
(04:20):
three D version, thinker defensively a lot better than I thought,
and gave her credit for so watching her and just
spending a little time. And one of the guys that
I've learned is to step back and let these kids
be themselves. Look, I speak what I'm spoken to. I'm
not sitting up there knocking on anybody's door offering my
(04:42):
advice because I don't know. I don't know what it's
like to be social media, Instagram this, I don't know
what it's like to be bombarded and have to be
the breadwinner in the family and be a brand and
be worried about what I do or say and everything else.
In twenty four to seven, being pulled in so many
different directions, not knowing I mean throwing the fact that
(05:03):
if I'm insecure, if I've got my own mental issues
going on, who do I talk to. I don't regret
being born when I when I was. I'm in the
right place at the right time. It's just been fascinating
to watch these young ladies come up and now take
the baton and take it to a different level.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
She handled it in in a graceful way as well.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Some of your peers, they like, they will recognize, you know,
her game, but they won't recognize her impact.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
How can you separate the two.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
It's kind of you know, and I used to and
you know, Jack, you're absolutely right. And I was like,
I was like, come on, you big dummies. Is she
getting hyped? Yes, but she was in the backyard. She
was putting in the same time, sometimes maybe more than
you were. I can't fault her for what she was given,
but you know, I mean, look, as much as she
(05:58):
was given, you can't tell me if that door would
have swung the other way where she didn't live up
to the height. Come on, folks are still waiting for
the fall.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Come on.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
So with that being said, you big dummies, you getting
paid now? Can every I mean everybody now has an
opportunity to pull up their chair and have a seat.
So that's that's the only thing. And thank god, I
don't listen, I don't follow social media, and I can
really care less because I've been delivered from being a
(06:29):
people pleaser and what you think about me, me too.
But I will tell you one thing. I'm just glad
that these young ladies who are at the upper upper top,
the upper tier players. I hope and pray that they
have a solid foundation and they know, they know guys
who they are, because you know how vicious it is
(06:52):
out there.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Do you see any correlation with Caitlin and Angel Reese
what they've done for them BBA as to what Magic
and Bird did when they came in at the same time.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Absolutely, right, absolutely, And you know, I'm sure that that
Larry and IRV used to laugh at you know, white
against Black.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, yeah. And they loved each other.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
East Coast WINSCA loved each other, loved each other and
respected one another and understood that this this this rivalry,
this tension, whatever it was, for the betterment of the game.
But they never got caught up into it.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
And those two are the foundation of the great stories
and narratives coming out of the n c a A
now flooding the Dove, which helps the dove. So that's,
you know, my main thing. I want to see how
we as women because again I know they're gonna get
(07:51):
mad at me for saying this. We can be petty,
we can be shortsighted.
Speaker 5 (07:56):
No, no, this is my first.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
We can.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
But I'm just hoping that we can embrace one another
where they're playing for the Dove or you're playing and unrivaled.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Which I love you wish you could got some of that.
I know you was going to watch.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
It that like, come on with the cross out of knees.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yet come.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I got nothing?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Mad love?
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:38):
What and and and that whole league, what they've done
and their mindset and the business aspect and the savviness
and to get there, you know, to build that infrastructure financially,
that was the first thought. And when I saw that,
oh they got this, they got this is about to
roll up. So and I just hope, again backtracking, that
(09:02):
we as women can understand and embrace. We all have
a seat at the table, and it's for the betterment
of the sport.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Support support support. I've seen you sidelines at several SC
games female SC games that I've pulled up to. Juju
has been blazing her trail at SC and slowly but
surely knocking on some doors that you put up. What
are your thoughts on her game and just the way
she's kind of been able to put SC basketball women's
basketball back to the forefront.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
First and foremost. A tremendous talent and for someone who's
been skyrocketed into the spotlight, it's not just the spotlight.
She's playing at USC and you've got the McGee twins,
Cynthia Cooper, myself, Lisa Leslie, Pina Thompson.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
They're Hall of famersamers.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yeah, and now you're expected to not just achieve and arrive,
but you've got to elevate it. You got to make
your next mark. And to watch this young lady come
in as a freshman and poised just even kill you know,
I wanted to see when things got tough, when she
got the wood laid on her, she was laying on
(10:17):
her back, and you know who was helping up or
was she getting herself up? Because I knew she was
going to catch people by surprise. You know, nobody knew,
but that middle and certainly the last latter part of
that season, double triple teams, game plan schemes, everything, How
was she going to make the adjustments? So I was
pleased to see that. And I'm always amazed at how
(10:41):
solid she is as a human being. Certainly a lot
of that is her foundation, family foundation, But there's something
very grounded and rooted in her. I'm not quite sure
where that comes from. If I was to give her
any advice, and I have shared this with there, just
make sure she maintainings and finds that that quiet place
(11:05):
here and here where her family, loved ones, boyfriend, girlfriend, cat, squirrel, dog, whatever,
she has her quiet place where she can just be
juju and no basketball, no nothing, and and find something
that she feels good about doing that's outside of the sport.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
It's important. What are your thoughts on women having to
wait four years to make that jump? Is that an
outdated rule? Do you think it suits the game because
she has to?
Speaker 3 (11:36):
It's a god bless that that rule is there. Yes,
it needs to stay there until you know the dove finally.
Financially can why if you are a top five.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
You're making more money.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
In college?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
No? I would. I would really love to, Like now
that's when you'd see me step out and slap somebody.
I'm like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
What do you think actually going backwards for them?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Big time?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Big time? You hurt your brand early to go. You know, wait, wait, wait,
make this This is your foundation. This is where your
money is, you know, for right now, right now, it's
it's kind of backwards. Where for you guys, the regular
season was where you made your money, but the playoffs
is where you made your fame. So right now, NCAA
(12:26):
where you make.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Your money exactly, the dove is.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Where you make your fame. That's your legacy.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Interesting, there's been a movement of late for you to
gain a later leadership position in the w NBA. People
have been talking and whispering. I don't know if you've
actually heard it, but you have since Do you have
any interest in being a part of any kind of
leadership structure in the w n B A.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
I thought about coaching, Okay, okay, I'll be honest. After
after beating Team U s A and all a sudden,
I was like, yeah, I was like, okay, I'm ready
to get back in there. But then reality said and.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I'm like, there's a lot of work.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
That's a lot of work. There's there's drafting, and then
there's actually communication, and there's getting your staff together, and
then you've got your president, you've got your GM. And yes,
that's too much work a lot.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
What about above that, though? What about it?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Now that you know what, I would love to be
consultant and a consultant in this respect. Bad decision, you stupid.
You need to be fired.
Speaker 6 (13:39):
Bye bye, I I'll do that.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
She could play she you know, trade her? What were
you thinking?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Okay, that's what the game needs.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
There's just now that's like honesty.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
And just you and your feelings. Get old, be quiet.
I'm gonna pray about you.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
But yeah, that's great. Probably that's how gregs to talk
to us.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Hey, I just I'm just about you know. Look, I
just turned sixty one in January.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Related amazing. By the way, Thank you, thank you smoking there,
You're lucky. I'm taking.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Welcome to all the smoke. Welcome to all the smoke.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
We touched on arrivals a little bit. Obviously a league
that has been put together very well. It allows women
to not have to go over the world. Yes, yes,
and make money. The ability to get that many stars
in any sport is incredible. They got the best of
the best from their league. How do you think the
w NBA feels about this and what is the future?
Speaker 3 (14:58):
I don't know for sure, but I can only imagine. Initially,
I'm sure the Dove was in their feelings. But again,
we've got we've got to learn from our successes and
our mistakes. I thought the first three years of the
Dove explosion excitement whatnot. I thought after that they rested
(15:23):
on their laurels and the laurels they didn't do the
leg work. They didn't pick up the phones and make
sure that the same people that are buying these season
tickets that they're still you know, how can we, you know,
make our product better? What do you need? You know,
we stop asking questions and we stop reaching out, and
you know, it was it was dark days for a while.
(15:45):
So I'm hoping that they can embrace it and understand
that that product is just an extension of our product.
How can we make you look even better because it
makes us look better the more leave weeks that come out,
because look, be honest, there's only a certain amount of
spots a certain amount of teams. Not everybody could play
(16:08):
so and there's still some really good quality women out
there that's still and can get tribute, you know. So
I'm I'm I'm saying there's a lot of leagues that
are will be sprouting up that I hope the dub
can sit up there and embrace.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Let's get to your upbringing.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
You say, well, I'm because I'm just thinking about it
from the question. I took a lot of als from
your brother. Uh, I don't even know if I gotta
win every day we shoot, you know before like women
up for games. He used to come like three hours
before us, but he used to come back on warm up.
(16:48):
I'm probably like maybe forty two and forty two. Brother,
How did it feel busting his ass and the driveway
growing up?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
How did that feel?
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Hey? You know what, he suffered a lot of l
He did suffer a lot of l And when I
tied shifted, Oh, it was, oh, it's like yesterday. It
was my freshman year in college, coming home, you know
for Christmas break and the last time I saw rich
(17:20):
she was like maybe you know six' one, you know,
so I still had an inch or something on him.
He was upstairs. I said, come on, man, let's you know,
wake up. Come on, let's go play some ball. He said, yeah, okay,
hold on, I said, come on, man, I got all day,
so I, you know, went on the court and he
came out the sliding last door and that mug was
like six seven okay, all right, all right, he can't
(17:46):
oh he got a little height. So we're just warming up.
He's shooting, but I'm noticing that, you know, the court's
here on the fences back here, and he's dang near
shoulder and shoulder with the fence. I was like, sorry,
he got a little range. He's always been. He's always
been a shooter. And I got the ball. I crossed
(18:09):
him over, got past them and got him the bike
and then hit my fade away. I was like, main nothing,
but oh this is the same. I'm running the shore.
I was like, give me the ball. Junior, Kim here, Junior.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
And your sister talking.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Kimmer Ran Kim and Rad Kim and Red you want
some of this? And I got past some guys. I
was like, and I was laughing to our come on baby,
and I hear pended, pended, and I don't know what happened,
because this is when the whole mental illness things and
(18:55):
things got blurry and went into slow motion. And I
remember like landing and then looking back and he's still
up there, looking down with the ball still pinned, pulled
it down. He goes, I'm gonna give you another trot.
And I was like, then I know something happened because
I heard so the pop and I was like, oh,
I got a hammy. I'm a hammy up hammy. You lucky,
(19:19):
you lucky, you got tight back here, pulled a hammy.
Walked in. Mom's like you okay, baby. I said, yeah,
I'll be all right.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
That's when you knew I was done.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I was done. Tried to come back the next day
and play in a stupid game called horse.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yeah. I know how that feels.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Can't blame in anything. But I got a question for you, then,
what kind of teammate was he?
Speaker 4 (19:49):
I think for me, I played with some you know,
Tim Duck and David Robinson. But I think he gave
me the one of the greatest compliments. He told Donnie Nelson,
I mean Donnie Walshing Larry Bird that he wanted to
come in to be a success because remember he retired
the second year. I got that, and they knew they
would bring somebody into Phillips shoes. I knew I couldn't
be Reggie will know where close, but the fact that
(20:11):
he spoke up for me to bring me in. He
was the best teammate of that team should have won
a championship. And we all regret that because we owed
that to Reggie. But the team wouldn't have been the
team it was, wouldn't have been together and able to
come back and make it to the playoffs. We made
to the playoffs still and want to be Boston in
the first round. That was all because of the teammate
and the leader your brother was.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
I remember you said. I mean, that was one thing
that Jack definitely said. He's like, that brawl, you know happened.
It is what it is. But he said, the thing
they regret the most is that let your brother down
because they felt like that team was capable of winning
a championship.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
I remember watching that that that whole thing happened, and
it was surreal watching Meta run at the time and
he's on the scorer's table and right, and he had
that injury. He was hurt and I remember he has
his hand on his chest and he just for a
(21:08):
split second and then run's up in the stands.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
The only person wrong listened to was Reggie.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I remember calling Reggie and I'm not afterwards because I
had the process that I know that Reggie had to
process that. And I go, I said, how you doing?
He goes. He goes, Cheryl, They're gonna they're gonna lower
the boom. We're going to get a death sentence. He goes, Cheryl.
(21:35):
He's like, Dean, we could have want this, we could
have want this whole thing. And to hear to hear
that in his voice and yeah, that that that was tough.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Any time you talked to him about it, you can
see it. You can see it like we had a
conversation before. You know, we we and we we get
emotional because we know.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
What does that look? Jackson goes look, yeah, yeah, And
I'm like, man, man, oh man.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Every time somebody asks Reggie about me and Ron, though
he speaks so highly of us like that, he gives
them the opposite of what every time.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
He gives everybody ample opportunity to like sive you guys,
but he loved you guys. He absolutely loved you guys,
because what was the word what was the phrase? He goes,
he goes those, he goes those guys. Cheryl never broke character.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, never broke characters.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
You gotta you have to receive goes. I respect guys
who they never broke character.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
What was he thinking when you scored one hundred and
five points in a single game?
Speaker 3 (22:43):
He was happy until he found about about that. But no,
he's he came home and we you know, because we
played when I was at home, he was on the
road with the you know, the boys team, and and
my dad was like, well, I can't wait till you.
I don't know how you read how Reggie's going to
handle it.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I know you guys are not interrupt You guys are
two grades apart, right to you, one one grade apart,
two years apart, one one year, yes, yes, yes, one grade.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
So he came home and he's like, dang, guess what
I was killing him today? I said, go ahead, what happened?
He said, Oh, I think he's had something like you know,
I scored thirty six. I was making the rain everywhere
everything I was just falling. It was falling, and my
Dad's just sitting at the count.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Oh yeah, matter, fuck your day up right.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Reggie goes so and he goes, how'd you go? I
had a good game? Reg He goes, oh, okay, well,
you know, because you guys got to understand. He goes, well,
he started with the number fifty. Well, I had scored
fifty four before, I had scored sixty one before, I
had scored seventy seven before. He had a few numbers
to play with.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
He had a few numbers to play with, so he said.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
What's so, yeah, fifty, I said no, and he looks
at my dad, and my dad's like, he goes, okay, sixty. No,
he goes, now, he looks like he said that sick
feeling like that sick look. He's like, start stuttering, yeah,
(24:32):
seventy and he goes no. He goes He's like, do
you know I'm divorcing? I said, because I gotta make it.
I gotta make it work for the number. And he goes,
what I said? Uh. He goes, he said, you did
you say? I said, I said one hundred and five
(24:53):
and he just lets out this. He's like, mom, I
can't win. Yeah, when that's not fair. My dad and
I were just cracking up.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
But yeah, you.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
Think anybody scored one hundred in the w A or NBA.
I think it happened in the men's game.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Yeah, right now, we don't know in the women's game.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
I wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I'm waiting for somebody to put up seventy.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
Did you have a play at U c l A
men's gym? Yes, you heard, we heard you was out
there busting me and ass in there. Yes, how was that?
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Matter of fact? I oh, that was Remember Mike dunne.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yvy coach do Yeah, Mike Dunley.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yeah, he would get out there and play a shack
when he first came in. We get out there, IRV
all the guys.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
He was out there styling. I was.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
I was holding my I didn't go home with my
head hanging.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah. Yeah, I would have loved to see that.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
But I'll tell you one thing. They didn't make it easy.
They didn't easy, I can you know, and because oh
my god, and they would serve it right back up
to me. And I love that, And you know what,
to be honest, that's a blessing in itself. And maybe
that's one of the main reasons why making that transition
(26:17):
into broadcasting into the NBA that you guys gave me
so much respect and stuff. You know, so I appreciate
you guys.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Because we know you spoke from experience. You really did it, Yeah,
you really did.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
I did some things.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Our instrumental was your pops, military guy, to raise two
competitive athletes great athletes.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I don't know how y'all wasn't twined. Y'all look so
much alike, But is he?
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Is he the reason for the competitive competitives and the
ship talking.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
No, Reggie did that. That was that was already. That
was that was already. Reggie did that out of necessity
in the in the household, because you got Reggie Reggie
growing up, he just physically he was thin. He had
some physical ailments about him. He was not need and
(27:11):
he had to have his knees reset and just just
pop belly bad hair conditioning up.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
You know, how would you explain Reggie's jump shot, the
genesis of his jump shot throughout the year, because.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
A lot of it was, you know, because I was
always in his face, so he would almost it would
almost click. And I don't know how many countless coaches
tried to change his shot. Then my Dad's like, don't
mess with the shot. Don't you touch his shot. You
could work on anything else, but leave his shot alone.
(27:53):
Because my dad was a firm believer. That's something that
you day in, day out practice, and that was part
of it. And there's certain adjustments you can make. But
the way he shot and it was almost looked like
he was pushing it, but he wasn't. It was it
was really really unique. But what my dad did and
(28:14):
instilled in all of us was if you start something,
you finish it. There was no quitting and you gave
your very best, whether it was in basketball, baseball, football,
ping pong, monopoly, spades, trouble, whatever it was, you just
(28:35):
you did your very best and there were no excuses,
no excuses. So we had two older brothers I was
smack Dad in the middle Reggie, and a younger sister,
so it was built in competition.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
You led sc to back to back national titles and
were named tournament.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
I was one. I was one of many on that team.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Yeah you helped, thank.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
You, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
I assisted. I love that I assisted.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
But you were also named MVP both times, so you
did a little bit more than that. What was the
environment like back then, I mean, obviously the press. I'm
a UCLA guy, but always had a lot of respect
for what SC has always meant in the sports world.
What was l A like back then?
Speaker 2 (29:15):
For you?
Speaker 3 (29:16):
This is the one thing that did bother me, you know,
forget you sl A. You know, just the rivalry. What
really used to mess with all the sisters, like the
female athletes at SC. Why did all the good looking
brothers go to U S l A.
Speaker 6 (29:35):
I don't know, real, I don't know, I don't know, Jack, Like,
that's not just you know, I mean.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
I need to hear this today.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
This is this is why our Liz was like, come on,
but yeah, yeah, but anyways, I'm just thinking about all
the guys that used okay, may get me go somewhere Russian.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Never sure saying huh what was that? I mean, I remember,
you know, us playing there. We never really looked at it.
I don't think maybe the school or that the students
looked at it.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Like.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
I didn't have an issue with nobody on s C.
I actually loved SC football because that's back when they
had Reggie Bush and all those guys. Like, did you
guys look at it as like f U C l A.
Or was it just more fun?
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Of it was. It was it was a rivalry.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
USC in the hood, though, ain't it. Yeah?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Oh back in the day, Oh, back in the day.
It was like, you know, you get your game on
like this and then you know, you cross the street.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I heard yeah, making sure you know.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
In the middle of it.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
It was no joke. You turned down that wrong alley
if you want to. And that was another thing. Yeah,
we we lived in real Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm more USC than Yah about that.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
But no, when it came to when it came to
to basketball and Reggie, yeah, I mean I I wouldn't
wear anything you sel a, but I made sure that
there was nobody up in the stands that had a
thought in their mouth.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah yeah, I love it, do it. This is the same.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
I mean, the same time you're you're winning championships, the
Showtime Lakers are winning championships as well.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
So what is.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Right?
Speaker 3 (31:35):
We were Showtime. Look, our our practices were brutal. I've
got Cynthia Cooper running her mouth. Tracy Longo, nobody remember
well she was my height, white girl that could jump
out the gym, and we battled each other throughout high school.
You had the McGee twins, and you know, we had
(31:56):
Ronda Windham, a point guard from the Bronx, so we
had little bit of everything. So our practices coached just
basically rolled out the ball was great in allowing us
to be who we are. Our personalities would step in
when we you know, got a little twisted. But the
games were the fun part, practices where we honed ourselves,
(32:19):
our skills and everything else. We had to check our
egos at the you know, and that was our captain,
Juleett Robinson. Check your ego at the door. And once
we stepped on the floor, it was about business.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
It was.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
And then you had the you know, we had Magic
and the Lakers and you know them coming in occasionally
watching us play. And we were playing at the time
at the Sports Arena. So yeah, we were showtime.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
I'm gonna give you some names.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
I want you to tell me what you think.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Debs just like a brother. She was a rebounder, Dennis
sister right the family.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Yeah, Pam McGee did her dirty in the in the
championship game because she got in her ear started talking
to her, say, I can't believe Kim Moulky just missed
that you were wide open. You had me pinned talking
to her throughout the gain. Man, I can't believe Kim
Moulkey just sat Janice Lawrence. Won't you even to pass
you Out's a high loan and you got me pinned
behind And then all of a sudden she starts talking,
(33:28):
why did you give any the ball? Kim? Now there's
a I mean, so she talented, but she yeah, she
she had some things going on like.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Her, like her brother.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Pam McGee one of my former teammates, Mom JaVale McGee's mom.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Pam hardest working block, the block, hustle, rebounder, will not
be denied on the boards. Physical funny. Would you know
she would pause to think sometimes I'm like, are you
hearing something? But I now know she was just pausing
the thing, you know. Yeah, great teammate, Great teammates Cynthia
(34:06):
Cooper who we could not see I to eye on anything.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Shacking Kobe.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Oh it was, And I will say she was. She
was Kobe and I had some shock in her because
I had I had some shock in me. Where Kobe,
you can be you, but you ain't gonna tell me
how to do?
Speaker 2 (34:36):
You know?
Speaker 3 (34:36):
And I would. I would sit there, I'm like, Cooper,
do you ever shut up? Let me just add, I
just do you ever shut up? And older?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Older?
Speaker 3 (34:47):
And and I was, look, coming out of high school,
you're hearing you the end all be all. I started
drinking my kool laid at a very young age. So
now I got this other mouth who wants to go
at me. I've got, you know, and I'm look. I
(35:07):
knew I was good, but I didn't believe I was good.
So I was I was insecure. So you're gonna challenge me.
I ain't gonna ain't no punk. I mean live at Riverside,
but I ain't no punk. So she would come out
from Wats and she would say that I'm from I'm.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Like an.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Taste the same, yeah, the same want you know, I mean,
And we were sitting I mean, you know, and you
know the twins are like, sure she's from Watson. That
with Papa. I don't care, no no, but on the court, simpotico, simpotico.
But I will say one thing, A couple of things
(35:46):
about Cynthia, a self made, driven superstar Hall of Famer,
so well deserved.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
But not least Kim Mulkey oh, coach.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
I used to call her dead of South. You're just
dead of South. So that South South, brilliant basketball mind,
tremendous IQ, great floor general, fierce competitor, is the one
one of the should have been the starter of the
(36:27):
Olympic team.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Hands down. Really who was the starter?
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Lee Henry m hmm?
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Interesting and.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
That was Pat's player, Pat Summitt, the late great Pat Summits.
But Kim Moulkey, hands down, should have been the starter
because I'm telling you when when she would come in,
she's like, Miller, I just need you to fly. You
just fly, I'll get the ball to her. She would
get that ball. She already knew where everybody was because
(37:00):
she could play the game with her eyes closed and
would know what passed when aheaded timing and everything else,
barking this, knew your position, your cut, where you should
have been. I can't believe you're still out here, I
mean everything. So to watch her and to play against her,
playing against her was a pain. Playing with her a joy.
(37:23):
No surprise at her success as a head coach.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Is she misunderstood. She kind of gets a bad rap.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Now just swagging. She's doing it her way.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Man, Kim is Kim Kim Kim wait Kim is never broke,
never broke character.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Huh. I love that, never broke character.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
What you see is what you get if you don't
like it.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Bucket Fresh too.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, she just you know, she's she's
the female.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Libaraci nineteen eighty two, the first woman ever to dunk.
I don't know if on record. We did a lot
of research in an organized game.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
So so you just we gotta stop you. Now you're
gonna take your flowers from us. You've been trying to
deny him and weave them and all that, and you're
gonna sit it and take your flowers from us today.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I'm take them.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Look, because you guys, they'll fat fat.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
We do a lot of research. We do a lot
of research, you know.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
But there's no there's a Georgiana Wells, Dylan see Georgiana
Wells I believe was the first recorded player.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Is that in the game or just in the game?
Oh really in the game?
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Okay, Georgiana Wells. Georgiana Wells, go.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Ahead, we'll google that. Well what did that mean to
you that day, in that moment to put a dunk
down in the game?
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Extra, that's kool Aid Baby extra extra sugar tips?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Was it analine like it was.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
A take flight? What was what? There were dunks, but
they weren't considered dunks where I would get a tip
dunk because she just pushed the ball in. And you know,
back then, it was like they, oh, she just pushed
the boat.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
It was dump dump.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
And now my dad said, you know, you do know
you dunk that. I said, but they said, I pushed
it in. He's like, here you go. But once I
it was a it was a breakaway still and it
was one of those you guys have been on those floors.
There's something about the floor.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Stanford used to yeah, Stamford, Oh, sacrament to me, no, Stanford, SA,
Sacramento was like that. Stanford used to have a springy floor.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Man, Stamford, you kid. Yeah. As soon as I got
that still and I hit the free throw line, I
crossed over and I took off where.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
I know him. I'm like, okay, I'm up here.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Y hit it and I landed and I started running
back and all my teammates are running over, were high
five and the stuff and the official I look back
in the she's just taking a ball in that and
He's just standing there like.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Did It's like, what the I was like, that's me.
That's me, baby, that's me.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Obviously heavily decorated college career, drafted by several leagues after college,
including the usb L, which is the men's league. Did
you ever consider possibly playing with men?
Speaker 2 (40:22):
She grew up. I mean, you know what you don't.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
You don't hang out in the summer at U c
l A and not get a big dose pointing with
the big boys of reality, you know. And I certainly
I didn't have the handles to be a point guard,
not even close of what that and that's the only
position I could have played. But physically, like physically no, no,
I mean it would have been nice to actually try it,
(40:49):
but by that time I had blown up my knee.
That was you know, that was the determining factor for
me in basketball. That's when we parted ways. And that's
all she wrote.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Do you feel like, and I mean you if if
anyone one could have it could have possibly been you.
Do you feel like, what is the difference outside of
strength and speed with women being able to possibly cross
over and play man. Have you feel like there has
been a woman that could have crossed over and played
with the men.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
No, no, it is. It is straight a physical barrier
that just in my lifetime right now, I don't believe
I'll ever see. I just don't. I don't see because
you guys continue to get bigger, stronger, and faster. I mean,
I would have never thought that you'd have a seven
(41:35):
to seven kid, no shooting threes. You know, shooting threes
and you know it's just we there. There's that evolution
gap that will never be closed between a man and
a woman.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Interesting. I don't want to butcher her name, but the
seventh foot sylviet.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Woman, Juleanna Simonova, woman nova?
Speaker 2 (41:53):
What was she like?
Speaker 1 (41:54):
I mean dominant? You got a chance to come up
in the same time, all.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Right, pitcher? Yeah, all mean okay, picture of this, y'all
mean two inches?
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Is that boy shorts?
Speaker 4 (42:08):
No?
Speaker 3 (42:09):
They those were like the like briefs.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
They're like yeah, no, no, no, that's that's a onesie.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
That's a onesie. No no, no, no, no, that was
a separate talk got nothing.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
Like the So she had the jersey top with the
granny panty bottom. Yes, crazy, yeah, no, no, what the top?
Speaker 2 (42:26):
That's crazy?
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Now, it's not the bell that's the trail on the
end of the jersey.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
No, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
What was her game like.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Back to the basket? I mean, what were you going
to do?
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Right?
Speaker 3 (42:37):
Didn't have you know, obviously it wasn't tremendous foot speed,
but at seven to two and could get up the floor.
But all she had to do was get down the
floor anywhere and on the block and it's a wrap.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah, it's a rap.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Trying to get past her in the middle, it's a rap.
What the Soviet team was so great at You had
eighty year old women who had played together since they
were in cribs coming out of the cribs. So you
had a professional team for Daming. They're close to fifty
years and it was a stranglehold on international basketball and
(43:13):
their players. The permimeter players were faster, stronger, better shooters.
They were a machine and then you put that in
the middle. They were unbeatable.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
When did you feel like you guys caught up on
the international side, the women?
Speaker 3 (43:28):
It started, matter of fact, in seventy nine. It was
I wanted to say a few of the members was
Nancy Lieberman, An Myers Drysdale, Carol Blas Jawski and Lynette Woodard.
They were in Soul, Korea. I don't know if it
was the World Championships or the Jones Cup, but they
(43:50):
finally beat them in nineteen seventy nine, and then we
got them in eighty six, and after that it was
a round. Yeah, it was the decline of the Soviet.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Why do you feel that there's so many European I
use that as a broad name men coming over and
having a ton of success, but we don't see as
many women coming over from there.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
That's a great question, that's a really good question. I'm
not sure if they're not experiencing the same obstacles we
did early on because there was such an investment and
not only the men's college game and AAU and all that,
but their club teams are far superior internationally, So I'm
(44:40):
not sure there's been that catch up between a lot
of great institution college institutions internationally as there is in
the United States. So I think that's been kind of
a step, a stepping stone unfortunately, set or barrier for
(45:02):
for international players. It's gotten better, but it's not the
influx that you see with the men. The men are
coming out and they're just tremendous And let me ask.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
You that, Yeah has been ahead of the current. Are
you gone? He's been getting girls overseas for a while.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
He's been He's been plucking him from the national he
knows teams. What do you think will there ever be
an international player that will be the face of the NBA?
Speaker 2 (45:32):
I think so.
Speaker 4 (45:33):
I think I think we're real closer than ever with
Lebron stepping down. Guys like Anthony l was coming out
saying they don't want to be the face, Like I
think it's going to be given to one of those
international guys.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
I think so. I think I think might be the guy.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
Is that? What's the stigma?
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Or we heard Kad talk about that the other day,
Like what does it mean?
Speaker 2 (45:52):
What does it mean?
Speaker 1 (45:53):
What does that come with? What is the face of
the game? Come with a lot of praise, a lot
of critique, a lot of ship talking, a lot of disrespect.
And this is a different generation, Like we said we
kind of in KG always us we had to look
at this new generation through a new lens and their
wants and needs and wise are a lot different than ours.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Work, So how didn't want.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
How different is the game? Since you guys played, honestly,
what's what's your take?
Speaker 2 (46:18):
I look at it like this. We love the game,
they love the game, can do form big difference, and.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
I just think too. I mean, obviously, the plan was
to grow this into a global game, and we came
in at the end of a really physical era, and
there was still some physicality in the late nineties early
two thousand we first came in, and that's kind of disappeared,
you know what I mean. I think scoring is at
the utmost, three point shootings at the utmost, and highlights
have what been able to me to grow the game,
(46:46):
you know what I mean. I have sixteen year old
twins that are good players, but they don't watch games
that I'll just watch the recap in the morning on
my phone, you know what I mean. So it's just
like it's driven around highlights, and I think, you know,
that's a huge deeper conversation, but I just don't think
the Maybe there's just so much other ship to do.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Now that's it.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
That's lock in and stay focused. I also say too,
I mean, it's just you know, I think that money
international players are talented enough to be the face, but
I don't know if they'll ever be an international player
could be probably deserving, but I don't know if they'll
ever be one as the face of an American game.
Speaker 4 (47:25):
And international players attitude still is like our attitude if
we don't show up and play, we're gonna lose our job.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
They don't.
Speaker 4 (47:32):
American players don't feel like that we're gonna get the job.
The jobs is here for us. But then now in
the national players that's coming over, it's not a lot
of them, so they feel like, I got to show
up and play every night to keep my job, and
that's that was our attitude.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Is then in trouble, yes, if they don't get back
to the competitives.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
From a marketing standpoint, I think so.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
I wouldn't say they are because you got to look
at the just look at the Luca move, Like, look
what that's going to do to the Luca coming to
the Lakers. The Lakers are already the biggest brand in
the world. How much bigger they're gonna get over the
water now because Luca is wearing that seventy seven jersey.
I don't know if they'll be in trouble. I think
they'll be puris to like, how are these you know,
international players running the game. They'll be frustrated, but I
(48:12):
still think those guys are coming over and playing real
good basketball.
Speaker 3 (48:15):
So the NBA survives because of the influx of talented
and international.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
Players, right, But see that can hurt the league too,
Like just say Luca become the face of the league.
You give the faces of the league as somebody who
doesn't play defense, who doesn't work, you know all the.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Things they saying about him. So this is the face
of the league.
Speaker 4 (48:30):
So that's the bad part about it, right, You want
somebody like, for me, Russell Westbrook should be the face
of the league. Where he approaches the game. He don't
get no trouble off the court. Every game he played
one hundred ten percent. Do we play to the standard
of defans, No, not every night, but the effort is
there and he's showing up. That's what you're playing for,
you know what I'm saying. And people don't understand that
(48:51):
side of it. We're not just paying to see somebody
that everybody knows show up in the uniform and really
not care.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
We know you really don't care. That's that's how I
look at it. As a player.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
I mean, they say, you know, ratings are down thirty
plus percent. But they also say that social media it's.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
Never been bigger really, because we're in social media area.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Social media and the engagement with NBA around the world
has never been bigger than it is.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
That's what they count.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
But the linear numbers are down, but that's older people
who sit and watch TV. That's not necessarily the demo anymore.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
I just can't wait for the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
There, you got it.
Speaker 4 (49:23):
The business is great business. All they care about, yes,
all they care about and it's showing. It's showing you
care more about the business than the actual game. But
I think that I mean, Adam Silver has some work
to do. He has some things to figure out, you know,
what to do with his all star situation, you know
what to do with that hot Is load management going
to be something that will always be here? Will guys
ever be allowed to get back to playing physical defense?
(49:45):
I mean, I think there are some questions that need
to be answered, because again, the product hasn't and I
wouldn't say it's bad again because it's just a different
type of game, but it's not the standard that the
NBA has kind of hung their hat on for a
long time. I feel like these kids now are more
skilled than ever, but I feel like their IQ is
a little lower because their training is always one on one,
head down, like.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
What do I do off the ball?
Speaker 1 (50:06):
And that's why I think your international players come in
and play well, because they play such a great team
concept and understand how to play off the ball.
Speaker 4 (50:14):
But I think Grigs probably need to come back and
explain what low management is because they took the They
didn't took for what he was using. Oh my god,
they took it and twisted it to a whole where
you can just sit out and get paid and don't play.
That why that ain't why Pop did it. That ain't
why Pop did it.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
He did it.
Speaker 4 (50:29):
He starts sitting guys in the season going into the
playoffs because guys played a lot of minutes doing those
eighty two games. They probably missed one or two games.
And it was only guys like Tim Duncan, David Robinson.
It wasn't none of the young guys. You're gonna play regardless,
you know what I'm saying. So now you got guys
who two years in the league low manager, Like, come on, now,
that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (50:48):
That is it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Pop get a chance to put his influence on the league.
It'll get back. It'll get back.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Quick hitters. First thing to come to mind. Let us know,
top five women hoopers.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
Of all time. I'm gonna put you on the spot.
You in there?
Speaker 1 (51:03):
What top five women hoopers of all time?
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Not gonna do it on top five you've played with?
Speaker 3 (51:09):
Really not gonna do.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
You're not putting in the trick bag.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
Now, you know what if you'd asked me that question
maybe a year or two ago, three years ago, when
I wasn't trying to be around women's basketball, I'd have
thrown so many people under the bus. Now now that
I'm trying, now that I'm trying.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
To everybody, one thing I respected this whole interview is
every time we asked a question, you kind of sit
back and take a deep breath first because I feel
like some ship want to come out. But then you
give us something like just what you said right now?
Speaker 2 (51:45):
You know what that is?
Speaker 3 (51:46):
That's the Holy spirit?
Speaker 2 (51:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (51:51):
Alright, Lord, I ain't gonna say nothing Lord like that.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
What's your guilty pleasure? Wow?
Speaker 4 (51:55):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (51:56):
There? There They're on a week day, a week after
weekday afternoon walking up to Universal Studios and watching a matinee.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
Really, that's dope.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
That's it, just walking up there watching depending on the movie.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
That's some of the best sleep have you in the
movie My God?
Speaker 3 (52:18):
And you know the ones and you know the seats
ever since?
Speaker 1 (52:20):
Yes, and it's dark and the set failure.
Speaker 3 (52:24):
That's it. That's it.
Speaker 1 (52:29):
I love it absolutely one album, unrepeat.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
Ohio State Players.
Speaker 5 (52:35):
Ohio Players, Love Train, Love Train, five, Dinner gainst Dead,
are Alive five plus five dead or alive?
Speaker 3 (52:46):
Doctor King, Michelle Obama, Will Chamberlain.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
You get a chance to meet him?
Speaker 3 (52:53):
Yes, the stories I can tell about that in this way,
Will was a player?
Speaker 1 (53:02):
Play off the course the word I ain't the word.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
Play, I hain't the word.
Speaker 3 (53:13):
We ain't talking about basketball.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
And off the court, off the course, indeed, what am I?
Speaker 3 (53:23):
What am I to?
Speaker 2 (53:24):
More?
Speaker 3 (53:25):
Maya, Angelou and Jesus.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
One message to young female hoopers.
Speaker 3 (53:31):
Don't drink your kool aid.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
Oh okay, I don't drink your own cool aid.
Speaker 3 (53:35):
Don't drink your own kool aid.
Speaker 4 (53:37):
Red orange, simple, purple, purple blue. Yeah, we didn't say
the flavor was yeah, the color. If you can see
one guest on our show, who would it be? But
you have to help us get your answer on the show. Yeah,
I mean we haven't had your god damn brother yet.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
God damn. I mean, I didn't want to say it. Bro.
I got down. I hit him for this, he said.
I didn't talk to him a million times.
Speaker 3 (53:57):
You can't get him on the show.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
We ain't turning us down.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
He just always busy. He's in Milwaukee, he said, this
weekend or this this run for us him on that
damn bike.
Speaker 3 (54:07):
Tell the ped.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
Well you you help us and with me and jackill
continue to work on. We love to sit down with
your brother.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
That's some story. Now you want some story.
Speaker 3 (54:18):
Oh no, you talking about your story about you? About
I want to hear about Larry Brown and how that
wasn't you know, what what was it like to really
be coached by Larry Bird.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
Brown Bird Bird, I wasn't coached by Larry I know.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
That's what I want to I want.
Speaker 4 (54:37):
He was a great he was a great president and
gentle amount of team. That's who called me and gave
me my biggest contract. Like I was in my neighborhood,
sitting in the corner with my friends, and I got
a phone call from Lar Bird and put I'm like, y'all,
Slarry Bird. Everybody got up, start rolling up instantly. I'm like,
and Larry Bird told me, welcome to the Indiana Paces.
(54:57):
We're giving you such such contract. And that's that's all
he had to do for me. I'm in death for life.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, So he calls
what were you expecting him to call? For? What reason?
Speaker 4 (55:09):
Or No?
Speaker 2 (55:09):
I wasn't expecting him to call.
Speaker 4 (55:10):
I was getting ready to sign with the Pacers, right,
and I thought, Donnie Washington, my agent, was gonna call me.
Speaker 2 (55:17):
So you got the call, Larry. They told Larry to
call in my neighborhood.
Speaker 4 (55:21):
You had to be hyped on that one went crazy,
you know that one of the calls, you get up
and everybody take off running.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
One of them, one of them phone calls.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
I'll never forget it. Larry Bird called me.
Speaker 3 (55:30):
All right, I had a quick question for you guys.
Toughest player you ever played against offensively?
Speaker 2 (55:37):
Kobe defensively run a test really by far? This is good.
He can win MVP at Defensive Player the Year multiple
years if this was right.
Speaker 3 (55:47):
Yes, best coach you ever played for.
Speaker 4 (55:49):
I'm gonna give you a best and favorite Okay, best
by fars, Greg Popovich favorite Don Nelson because he believed
in me, he believed it.
Speaker 1 (55:59):
I would say best, Damn. I played for some great coaches.
I would say best is probably Phil Jackson because Phil
and Phil, if you were able to get on that court,
it is only because he trusted you. So that's why
he just sat there and lets you let us play.
Phil didn't do too much screaming and barking and ship.
He sat on his extended super high chair. And if
(56:21):
you were able to get on the court for him,
that means he really trusted and believed in you.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
We both played for some great coaches, Love Brown, Mike Brown.
Speaker 1 (56:29):
Rick Adaman. For me, Stanvean, it was a good coach.
He just phoned out his mouth every time he talked,
but he was a good coach.
Speaker 2 (56:35):
Coach.
Speaker 3 (56:36):
All right, My last final question. You're probably not gonna
answer this, but I'm gonna put you guys on the spot.
Laziest teammate that could have been great?
Speaker 1 (56:43):
Oh oh oh for.
Speaker 4 (56:45):
Me, laziest teammate that could have been great? David Harrison,
Remember David, Yeah, he was with us in fight out.
Speaker 3 (56:54):
He was crazy, bro.
Speaker 4 (56:55):
But I'm telling you three hundred pounds with a forty
plust vertical M hmm, unbelievable. By can catch can run
all that?
Speaker 2 (57:03):
Just up here? Bro is up here.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
I wouldn't, I don't. I don't want to use the
word lazy. I would use maybe it was tracted and
could have been great? Was Baron Davis. I don't want
to say lazy because I don't really I wasn't around
at the business all the other ship.
Speaker 3 (57:19):
I think Baron could have been in damn firm or lazy.
Speaker 2 (57:23):
He was lazy, no, no, nois He was lazy.
Speaker 3 (57:33):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (57:34):
All his energy was at the clubs. He used to
show up to practice with no shoes on because he
left the shoes in the club. This type of person
we're talking.
Speaker 1 (57:41):
About, that's crazy. That's crazy. I want to ask you
one last question for we get you out of here,
all right. And you didn't give us the women's side,
so you got to give us this side. Rank these
three in order your order, m J. Kobe Lebron, you're
gonna do that one. Come on now, even running all day,
we let you slide on the other ones.
Speaker 3 (57:59):
Kobe Lebron, No one knows where I live.
Speaker 2 (58:09):
Oh your brother, do though?
Speaker 3 (58:11):
You guys can't get a hold of them.
Speaker 2 (58:13):
So I.
Speaker 3 (58:21):
Gotta go with m J. Lebron and then Kobe, and
not at all you can because when you look at Lebron, Lebron,
in my opinion too, it's the greatest phenomenal specimen of
a specimen of an athlete physically, a physical I don't
(58:49):
know if we'll ever see a physical marvel of someone
of his magnitude. And it's just not it's his. You
got to take that and the longevity everything, Okay, Lebron, MJ.
Speaker 1 (59:08):
Kobe, I ain't mad at that.
Speaker 2 (59:09):
I ain't at that.
Speaker 3 (59:11):
You can talk to me. I've got it. I just
got from longevity and he is still balling.
Speaker 1 (59:18):
And not to mention all that. I mean, I'll be
talking basketball all the great shit he does off the
court as well.
Speaker 3 (59:22):
You know what, This is why these guys are great interviewers.
Don't give me all these particulars afterwards. Oh, you can
include this, include that he's a social activist.
Speaker 2 (59:31):
And all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (59:32):
But you know what, if you put that, then it's
clearly Lebron of what he does off the court things
that yeah, I And then okay, now if you're gonna
add activism to it, then it's gonna be Lebron Kobe
and then MJ. If you're gonna throw that in there,
because Kobe has done so much not only for for
(59:55):
your game, but for women's game and.
Speaker 4 (59:57):
What his daughter g would have a lot of stuff.
All those guys do don't get highlighted, as I.
Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Agree, And that's what I love about about certain athletes.
You never know what their left hand is doing. Right.
You may see this, but you never know what their
left is. And I respect that.
Speaker 4 (01:00:16):
I respect players that so many old folks, homes that
in the hospitals that MJ and built in his mom's name.
A lot of people don't talk about that either, you
know what I mean. So they all do great things.
Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
So it's then one, two three better than.
Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Any order.
Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
You see.
Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
You can't go wrong first, and they're still there's still building,
building and contributing.
Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
What y man.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
We appreciate your time and and honor done for the
game and and and and continue to do.
Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
We got some thank you the books.
Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
There got a book and some shirts and.
Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
I appreciate that, guys, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
That's a wrap that's ours. We got a coffee table
book that's a wrap. Cheryl one of the greatest to
ever do it. A great player, but even better person.
You can catch this on all the Smoke Productions YouTube
and the DraftKings Network. We'll see y'all next week, speaks.
Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
To the Plannet.
Speaker 7 (01:01:30):
I go by the name of Charlamagne the God, and
guess what. I can't wait to see y'all at the
third annual Black Effect Podcast Festival. That's right with coming
back to Atlanta, Georgia, Saturday, April twenty six at Poeman
Yards and it's hosted by none other than Decisions, Decisions,
mand B and Weezy. Okay, we got the R and
B Money podcast with taking Jay Valentine.
Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
We got the Woman of All.
Speaker 7 (01:01:50):
Podcasts with Sarah Jake Roberts. We got Good Mom's Bad Choices.
Carrie Champion will be there with her next sports podcast,
and the Trap Nerds podcast with more to be announced.
And of course it's bigger than podcasts. We're bringing the
Black Effect marketplace with black owned businesses, plus the food
truck caught to keep you fed while you visit us.
All right, listen, you don't want to miss this. Tap
in and grab your tickets now at Black Effect dot
(01:02:13):
Com Flash Podcast Festival,
Hosts And Creators
Stephen Jackson
Matt Barnes
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com