Craig Hodges: From Michael Jordan's Teammate to Blackballed From The NBA, 2x Champion Speaks out

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
M m M. What up.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Well, back in LA for another episode of All the Smoke,
my brother Matt in his state.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
You know, I'm kind of visiting hire, but you know
we've been.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Doing always welcome.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, we've been doing We've been doing business so long enough.
But it's kind of home now, you know what I'm saying.
But especially episode today, Man, somebody who I admire, somebody
who I look up to my life has grown to
really understand him and to really know how to put
myself in the shoes. A lot of stuff that he
went through as a youngster during his career, it was

(00:56):
hard for us to understand because we wasn't in it.
My own experience is life has has opened me up
to really admire him and understand him and to really
want to be somebody that I call a friend and
a brother. Honored to have you on the show today,
the one and only Craig Hodges.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
Yes, sir, please and blessings to everybody.

Speaker 5 (01:16):
And it's like I said, I appreciate the invite, man
as you watching y'all from far y'all doing a great
job and it's something that's definitely vital for the people, man,
you know, and it's not just about our community, it's
about people in general and people who care about.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
People appreciate you. So, how's life right now? What's going
on with you?

Speaker 5 (01:32):
A man keeping it simple, you know, making sure that
training as many young players as I can, you know,
and at the same time doing as much mentoring from
a research and development and as I can.

Speaker 4 (01:44):
You know, that's my passion. It was basketball and history.

Speaker 5 (01:49):
So I continue to do my research and try to
maintain that student athlete mentality.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
A lot of people throw the word blackballed around, white ball,
whatever you want to call it, and not really experience
it or not really understanding that. You are very familiar
with that. Can you talk about that? And when what?
And lot peo don't understand what being black ball from
the league means.

Speaker 4 (02:11):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 5 (02:12):
One of the beautiful part for me and the whole
experience of it, is that I was blessed to go
to Long Beach State.

Speaker 4 (02:19):
Text Wanner recruited me.

Speaker 5 (02:21):
He was recruiting to me from Northwestern when I was
in Chicago playing basketball, and when I got a chance
to come to Long Beach State, I got a chance
to study black studies. And my first professor was doctor
Malina Karinga, the founder of Kwanza, And the first lesson
that we learned was why is everything that is negative
has a black connotation to it? Yes to found doctor Kringa.

(02:45):
So for for me, it was one of those things
where once again I was blessed to have texts who
came in and bought me out here. I knew I
wanted to go out here after watching all the UCLA
when I was growing up and watching them and being
in Chicago and low weather and looking out here in
palm trees and T shirts, That's where I want to go.
And when Tech's got the job at Long Beach, it

(03:07):
was a no brainer for me. And then when I
got here, I found Black studies because I wanted to
be a political science major. And when I got to
Long Beach, I had a chance to get Black studies
at my very first class, and that took me back
to what I learned in as far as the civil
rights movement was in Chicago Heights, Illinois and growing up

(03:28):
under segregation and seeing you know, Jim Crow when I
was a baby man, I couldn't sit at the lunch
counter with young white children who were getting their ice creams.
I had to take my ice cream outside with a
Milton hold down my arm, you know. But it was
one of those things that you know, we grew up
under it, but at the same time we realized that,
you know, it's something special for you in your life

(03:48):
if you work hard, if you study hard, and you
conduct yourself in a manner in which where you came from.
So our generation, I think about it. You know, every
time we left house, somebody was telling you be a
good boy, you know, and that meant something. It meant
something to the point that you know, as you go
further in life, you always want to make sure you
conduct yourself in a way that's you know, conduced it

(04:10):
to the growth not only of view but also the
people around you. So when I look at, you know,
the background and studies that I had at Long Beach State,
it almost prepared me for what was to come from
the white balling or the black balling, and you know,
the historical relevance of it, not just to me, but
whenever I speak about it, I always want to make
sure that I include mag Mood in it, and that

(04:32):
you know, Macmood, I'll do a rope and the path
that he was on even more so, than myself. You know,
I feel like I could probably win another three or
four three point titles and maybe a couple more rings.
But the path that mcmove was on from a personal
development and a personal career level where he could have
went in as far as the amounts of points that

(04:53):
he could score and score against the best defenders in
the game and it not be an issue. It was
almost you look at him and then if you go
watch him do his drill work, he was doing drill
work when he was playing. So for me to understand
the reality of you know, when you stand up for
a position that is not conducive to the growth of

(05:13):
white supremacy, racism and understanding the boundaries of it, understanding
the economic impacts of it, understanding that within the realm
of where we are, that that's the civilization that we're under,
you know, and that in that, should I continue to
want to thrive in that? Or should I want my
children to have something better? And the only way it

(05:34):
can get better is if we build it. It's not,
you know, And that's the cool part of having the
historical perspective and knowing that when we study African history
and African origin of civilization. We know that every other
civilization sprang from that, So we have the right and
the responsibility to build something right now that's relevant for

(05:55):
not only our children. And that's the cool part about
where we are today in history is that it has
become such a melting pot with the Internet. Is that
we are the world now, you know what I'm saying,
And that righteous people of good thought and peace and
love can conduct themselves together now and it becomes a
conscious movement that it's almost unstoppable.

Speaker 6 (06:17):
To really kind of understand your story, I want to
take it back to where it started. Chicago, as you
mentioned earlier, you know, towards the end of the Gym
Crow era. What was it like for you growing up
in that area?

Speaker 5 (06:30):
Man, I tell people I had to have this child
of anybody that I could, you know, think about because
even though we were segregated at that time, when in
Chicago Heights you couldn't go past Houston Street and they
would always tell us, not knowing as a child growing up,
when your chance to tell you make sure you back
on the other side of the hostel before six, you know,
before it get dark. And we didn't know the reason why,

(06:51):
but that was a line of demarcation in Chicago Heights
for us, and that to realize that, okay, everything that
got over there got over here, and when it comes
time for us to keep peeped against one another, they
ain't even close. So it was a matter of us
realizing that, you know, my aunt who was you know,
Lord rest of Soul, my god mom as well.

Speaker 4 (07:12):
She was one of the top teachers.

Speaker 5 (07:15):
So her whole class that left Chicago Heights to go
to Illinois State to learn how to teach, they all
came back and taught us. So the community that I
grew up in, I would go to the corner store
and I would see my math teacher. So it was
truly a community where everybody knew everybody.

Speaker 4 (07:33):
And when you.

Speaker 5 (07:35):
Think about that period of time and you just talk
about it, even on a professional level, when you think
about the Celtics having to go south to go past
the Jim Crow line and they ain't letting them, you know,
you can't stand the same hotel and all of that.
So I was part of that, but as a baby
and seeing it growing up from the standpoint talking to
my granddad. He was the first black track captain at

(07:56):
bloom High School. In Chicago Heights, and he said he
couldn't play football or baseball because you had to touch
a white person. So the lines of segregation, the demarcation
was so tough that a lot of people don't realize
it as we move away from this thing and we
think that everything is in a vacuum and that you know,

(08:17):
people tied its shed blood. I remember nineteen sixty eight
waking up in the morning, turning on WGN News and
seeing Fred Hampton and Mark clark apartment as a you
know what I'm saying, So they tell us oftentimes the
memories that we have as children are ones that are

(08:38):
so hard on you.

Speaker 4 (08:40):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (08:41):
So I recall and the cool and not cool. But
the critical point to be made is how the media
portrayed that in such a way that made sure that
you saw it as a baby. They didn't try to say, okay,
like now they say, okay, what you're getting ready to see,

(09:01):
you can cover up your children's eyes and then it's
getting ready to come on.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
It wasn't none of that.

Speaker 5 (09:05):
It was like seeing the chief of police walking here
with all these police and you're seeing bloody mattresses, you
seeing all of this as a child, and you're saying, man,
why is it that this is happening to us, and
not realizing that it's a systematic condition.

Speaker 4 (09:21):
That is something that you don't have to you can
you don't have to partake in it. You have to
study it.

Speaker 5 (09:29):
But now when I have, when I become an adult
and become worthy of a paycheck, and once again that's
paid to be checked, but being worthy of an income,
should that income not be put in a maunder that
can help other people get out of that, because then

(09:50):
I think that's one of the things that we missed
when i'm you know, we're talking about that, Jim Correyra.
But even even the educational process, the u mental part
of it, like Malcolm said, we've been bamboozled, you know
what I'm saying, and that the brainwashing, the brainwashing and
the brain mechanisms. So for me, I always think about

(10:10):
when they say three fists of human being, what parts
did y'all leave away from me?

Speaker 4 (10:15):
What is that for me?

Speaker 5 (10:17):
When I study it? It's God in tongue. You know
that you gave me this man Shaquille type man. We
got all of that, But what are we thinking about?

Speaker 4 (10:29):
What tongue.

Speaker 5 (10:30):
Do we have to think from you know what I'm saying,
so in the manifestation of coming through what we came
through as a people. And that's one thing always, since
I was eighteen years old and even younger, I think
that I've always tried to make sure every single day
I think about those who are less fortunate than me.
And when I was eighteen nineteen twenty, I thought it

(10:52):
was a black thing. No, no, it's a people thing.
Nobody should suffer.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
You know.

Speaker 5 (10:57):
I was watching yesterday doing some research which for what
we're doing here today, Brothers, I saw Tupac and it
was a four minute, four minute and fifty five second
interview that he was doing with MTV and he was
talking about the billionaire class, and it was so cold.
What he was saying was if I got all of
his bread, why do I need all these houses?

Speaker 4 (11:19):
Why can't I help some people?

Speaker 5 (11:20):
And that's the beautiful part where for me, I think
about my grandmom, who to me is the most saintly
person that ever walked to earth, and I'm sure all
of my grandmamas. And that's the part I think that
we missed in the early part of our movement, that
we were so man man man black man black, as
opposed to seeing how much the sisters who birthed us all,

(11:45):
where are they adding this divinity thing?

Speaker 1 (11:48):
You feel me?

Speaker 4 (11:48):
Because that's where we are.

Speaker 5 (11:50):
We're in the age of Aquarius now, so a lot
of this information is coming through sisterhood and we have
to respect that for what it is, because we had
our chance, brothers, and we didn't do what we were
supposed to do with it, even though it's a divine
time and things. So I think a lot of even
even to the point of what we do with our wealth,
how we manifest ourselves.

Speaker 4 (12:12):
You know this what y'all doing, brothers all. Don't y'all
don't y'all.

Speaker 5 (12:15):
Realize it because y'all solid brothers, and y'all know what
y'all doing.

Speaker 4 (12:20):
But this is so important, this whole. And you know
how you.

Speaker 5 (12:25):
See stuff from the outside and you have a so
I see it from the outside, and I've been checking
y'a out and then when y'all give them my guy
sign and say let's do this thing, and then to
come and see the production factor in it. It's so
powerful and it's so powerful that this is something I
want my baby boy to come see this because he
loves music and all of this type of stuff, and

(12:46):
that this is what we need because this is what
we didn't have. And these were the type of programs
that when we won championships in Chicago, this is what
I feel we could do that as opposed to saying, Okay,
I'm gonna go to Rush Street or I'm gonna go
do this, and I'm gonna do this. Hey man, what
would happen if we organized ourselves as a championship unit

(13:10):
and stayed in the city we was in until we
go back to training camp. What type of programs like
this could we build for every city in America? And
likewise we all retired players. Now, that's one of the
things that I'm hollering at the retired players about is
how can we connect ourselves to the players that are
playing now and we be able to run programs through

(13:33):
the retired players who are in local places that can
do things over sustained period of time, as opposed to
it being me coming in doing the camp and then
I'm gone, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (13:43):
So I appreciate what y'all.

Speaker 5 (13:45):
Doing, man, and for me to share whatever information we
can share right now to this next generation. It's critical
because if we don't, they coming after whatever little bit
you got.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
I think it'll be more beneficial, Like you said, if
the tired players that want to give that education, that
want to give that game back, can set up some
ground roots foundation and where they live exactly because there'll
be more organic, they can spend more time and they
can get them with the kids to get more out
of it.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
That makes all the sense in the world.

Speaker 5 (14:13):
Yes, man, And that's that's the part where we have to,
you know, we have to. One of the things that
I like is that when we play sport, we know
how cooperative you have to be to win, you know.
So when I hear this whole conversation about the goat,
I say, there's only one goat, and that's Bill Russell
to me, because he won, he taught people to win.

(14:34):
And when we put on these shorts in these uniforms
and go through layups and all of.

Speaker 4 (14:38):
That, we're trying to win.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Man.

Speaker 5 (14:40):
So we can talk all of this about an individual's
stat or whatever. That's cool, but in the long run,
if you ain't a swimmer or running a sprint, you
and this as a group and the group, and that's
part of the civilization. I think about us when we were
winning championships in Chicago and we're talking about Pip and
how we became part of Michael and Michael and the Jordanaires,

(15:03):
and how we were cool with it because we understood
it as a in the locker room, so we could
we would We're gonna support you, brother, to make sure
that you can get what you get, you know what
I'm saying. But don't discount the fact that let's give
Pip fifteen oh trips, Let's give Horse another five trips,
Let's give Hodds another five or six jumpers, and let's

(15:25):
see how we can melt this thing out. And then
I think, so when we were speaking in terms of,
you know, watching my brother Pip and you know, watching
some of the stuff that's going on, you know, it's
sad to me that we having fostered that brotherhood like
y'all got you know what I'm saying. And that's the
part that I think. That's what I thought when we

(15:48):
came When I came in the league in nineteen eighty two,
one of the first people to hit knowledge on me
was Bill Walton, loving loving to debt to this day
and he told me, say, Hi, look here, you're a
hooper man. I don't care how much you go through
this thing and get to management. Always be on the

(16:09):
side of the players because they are the game. And
that's what I feel like. I feel like we are
the game. So we have so much to offer still
to the game, and likewise, I feel like we can
be more influential in the way that the game is going.
So when I look at Okay said, I delineate we

(16:29):
got basketball, then we have management basketball. So management basketball
in the NBA where I see it now is analytics
and that type of thing. Over here, we're saying, how
do we make the best team and what is the
compliments that I can make in chemistry to make this

(16:49):
thing work?

Speaker 4 (16:50):
I look at probably and Matt.

Speaker 5 (16:52):
You know, it's at least and the same thing with you.
You know when you down there with Pop, so much
of what Pop is doing this triangle, you know, So
when we look at hit that thing dropping in ten
dunk and go over there, that's you know what I'm saying.
But now the game is such I would love to
see Joel and be against James Edwards, Bill Carr, right,

(17:18):
somebody is running block to block. Will Chamberlain would have
loved to guard Joel and Bad at three point line
because now I only got to run it there, and
now you got to run down.

Speaker 4 (17:30):
Here, and you're gonna have to take this beating.

Speaker 5 (17:32):
And that's the thing that it's you know, I love
I love the conversation, no dis on and beating. And
I'm not using that as an example. I'm just using
it in the way the game is played. When I
think I was watching a conversation that Kobe was having
and he said that it's accidental basketball and that when
he said that, I was like, wow, that is so
profound because when I look at the way the game

(17:55):
is played and me playing off of Michael Jordan not
a triangle, as opposed to me playing out of playing
with Michael Jordan out of isolation basketball, it was a
total difference.

Speaker 4 (18:06):
When we as in isolation, I'll be over there off
the ball.

Speaker 5 (18:10):
When is it coming? Is it gonna come? Now we
know in triangle that when that thing coming, it's gonna
be there, and it's.

Speaker 6 (18:16):
Gonna They still might shortcut it. But if they don't
shortcut it, you're gonna get it.

Speaker 4 (18:19):
You're gonna get it. Wide open.

Speaker 5 (18:21):
And that's the beautiful part of the system itself, is
that it lent himself to everybody getting touch it. So
everybody gonna play D. Everybody gonna play D. So let's
go the other way. Somebody gonna get it touch with,
somebody gonna you know what I'm saying. So when we
was talking about Matt and I was having a conversation
about Pip and I told him, I said to me,
once Scotty became one of the.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
Fiftieth best, his level of confidence.

Speaker 5 (18:46):
Not necessarily the way he played, He's playing that top fifty.
Before then, he just didn't know it, you feel me.
He was under the influence of twenty three that this
is how you do it, this is how.

Speaker 4 (18:59):
You do it. That is how you do it.

Speaker 5 (19:00):
I'm gonna drop you something, just how you do it.
So he little brother man, when he became top fifty,
it became.

Speaker 4 (19:09):
What let's go.

Speaker 5 (19:10):
And I think to some degree that's still there in
that little rift. They haven't but you know, LRD willing
it'll come together because everybody got children and grand babies.

Speaker 4 (19:22):
Now, man, we're too old for that shit. You know
what I'm saying. We were too old, We too old.
We're too old for that. Now we're elders.

Speaker 5 (19:29):
Now we're older, just to the point where we got
to be able to give something back in the level
where hey, man, if I can't give it to you,
And see, I think you know the economics of America,
the economics of.

Speaker 4 (19:45):
What is success? Isn't me having a billion, isn't me
having one hundred thousand, isn't me having a hundred?

Speaker 5 (19:53):
What is so in this thing? They put that idol
in front of us, and we all chase it so much.
And when I when I leave money on.

Speaker 4 (20:01):
The table, it can be tough.

Speaker 5 (20:03):
And I think many times that when we leave money
on the table, money's left on the table, that those
little frackings come out, and then we have chaos because.

Speaker 4 (20:18):
Can't nobody teach it but me? And don't nobody want
to allow me to teach? And I'm cool with that.

Speaker 5 (20:24):
I can tell you right now, my son is teaching
that in Pasadena Polytechnical High School. My oldest boys teaching
triangle over there.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
Cope taught his daughter the triangle.

Speaker 4 (20:34):
It's the easiest game.

Speaker 5 (20:35):
This is the craziest part. It's the most fundamental system.
You're going to get soon as you walk in the door.
That's foot work. Then we go into our real footwork.
Then we pick up a ball. Now we're in the
ball handling.

Speaker 4 (20:49):
That's what you're gonna do naturally if you walk into
a gym and pick up a ball. So it's certain
things that text was able to figure out on a straight, straight, straight,
basic level. I wish everybody would had a chance to
be at Long Beach State for the four years that
I spent there.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
Was it was it triangle off the rip? What do
you mean with texts?

Speaker 4 (21:08):
Oh, yes, it was.

Speaker 5 (21:09):
It was, And it is the cold part about it,
Like I had it four years in college. So I
tell people to feel one how many championships, twelve or
whatever you want, with only a third of the system
because we didn't have to play against full court, you
know what I'm saying. So in college you're playing against
full court. We planned try and go right from out
of bounds. So it's it's cold. It's a cold system.

(21:30):
And for me, I'm like every team that I coach,
that's what I teach.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
But what I'm saying, you run the triangle otter out
of bounds. I'm putting it together. I'm visualizing, think about it.

Speaker 5 (21:40):
Okay, think about it. And the way we set up
against Press was we is four cross, two at the elbow,
two on the wings. So now that wing pop, I
hit and I go through.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
To the corner, half court flash middle.

Speaker 5 (21:57):
It's man and it's And that's the cool part about
I'm so glad I played the game. When I played
the game, you know, we all had handles, we had
taps or whatever you want to call it. We had that,
you know what I'm saying. But the game was played
where I got a cat at six', Nine i'm six.
Two were gonna look inside before we look, Outside So
i'm coming.

Speaker 4 (22:17):
Down i'm dropping that.

Speaker 5 (22:18):
In SO i, SAY i would love to See Steph
curry try to play with one of The biggs back
in the day with a grab.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
Rebound, no, no, no come.

Speaker 5 (22:24):
BACK a young, man come, in a young man, Here
hold that, down wait TILL i get down.

Speaker 4 (22:28):
There and that's what you got when you came into
the league as a. Rookie, yo, man what you're running
down there so?

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Fast fuck young, fella young, fella hold, Up.

Speaker 5 (22:39):
Hold that, up Because i'm getting. It i'm down there
doing this dirty, work you. Know hold up TIL i
get down, there you, know so it's a it's a different.
Game but once, again everything is in. Cycles and you,
Know I'm, matt how many teams in the league could
probably be competitive on a championship level with.

Speaker 4 (22:56):
Triangle but you, Know tex saw us is.

Speaker 5 (23:01):
One of the first things you taught. Us he, Say,
man you dribbling from here, Today i'm gonna pass it
to get that. Quicker so we dribbling, around dribbling. AROUND
i WATCHED i watched the game and somebody dribbled almost
a whole twenty four second clock and got like three
screening rolls at the.

Speaker 4 (23:16):
Top didn't chick come off of, it and now you
got a. Lunch And i'm, like that's not basketball to.

Speaker 5 (23:22):
ME i think we were talking to practical especially paying under,
pop and feel you weren't gonna play.

Speaker 4 (23:28):
If you weren't playing practical. Basketball you know What i'm.

Speaker 5 (23:31):
Saying if you shooting the thirty, foot this should be
at the end of a clock or at the end
of a.

Speaker 6 (23:35):
Quarter that's WHY i feel, LIKE i, mean this this
generation is very, skilled BUT i feel like they lack
the the thinking of the game because like you said, that.

Speaker 5 (23:45):
And you think about, it one of the great parts
about all of us had we had we had a
chance to play at the, park you know What i'm.
Saying so now instead of playing at the, park they're
with a dribbling coach there with the head and did
with a strength and conditioning.

Speaker 4 (24:01):
Coach so all of you only got so much time.

Speaker 5 (24:06):
To do whatever we're doing playing, Man and that was
the thing that we were, learning and we were learning
to play against bigger people playing with you you younger
playing against older, guys so you learn to play against
through through contact and. Everything where now it's like you
know you're gonna and then when when they set up
THESE aau programs and such where you're getting the top

(24:27):
five from over, here come with top seven over, here
and now we're gonna go and just dominate every. Place
but nobody's working on what their weaknesses. Are you, know
everybody's trying to. Win we're trying to win for. It
and that's WHY i tell people now WHENEVER i mentor
any young folks and their, parents is that you only
have so many games in your. Body and WHEN i say,
Games i'm saying when you put on a when a

(24:49):
referee is out, there when you walk into the, gym
and you smell, Popcorn you're adrenaline started. Rushing you put
on a, uniform the whistle blows and the clock. Starts
that's different than Scrim you only got so many of
them in your.

Speaker 4 (25:03):
Life, now if you're an up and.

Speaker 5 (25:05):
Coming player and you look like you're going, SOMEWHERE i
want them to be from twenty.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
Two save And i'm trying to tell you twenty.

Speaker 4 (25:11):
Two to thirty. TWO i don't want you to be.
There oh my son is the top eighth.

Speaker 6 (25:15):
Grader, okay, Hey i'm we got to edit this part
that that's been my whole thing with my, twins and
like the homies can, contest like there's no point in
being the best six fifth grade or sixth, gade or
seventh graderor eighth.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Grade like you want to.

Speaker 6 (25:28):
Start peaking at eleventh, grade twelfth grade through college, exactly
that's when and then you hit your physical. Peak, yes
and to late twenty so it's it's a, marathon not a.
Spread and so many people these days BECAUSE i coach
au and obviously you still, coaching it's about my son's ranked,
this and it's just, This AND i tell you know
how many People i've seen ranked, man never do, anything

(25:51):
never never heard of them. Exactly that's the part of
it's the, bill it's the constantly chop, wood carry.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
Water let's just get a little bit better each.

Speaker 5 (25:58):
Time and then that's the, thing, man is that and
to be able to give that.

Speaker 4 (26:02):
Guidance and that's the part Where i'm.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Like, yes and you got the answer to the test, already, yes.

Speaker 5 (26:08):
And if you Get and that's LIKE i tell young
folks When i'm working with, Them i'm, Like, Okay i'll
work with, you AND i tell their Parents i'll work with.
Y'all but if they're a, knucklehead we only got one, session,
Okay And i'm gonna know if your knucklehead or she's a,
knucklehead because they gonna think they already.

Speaker 4 (26:25):
Know and if that's the, case then you don't need,
me you know What i'm.

Speaker 5 (26:29):
Saying so let's just go on ahead and understand that
the fundamentals are the, fundamentals and let's grind on. Those
like you, say let's grind on those. Fundamentals let's see
how much work we can put in with older, people
see where you, know see where we can bring you.

Speaker 4 (26:47):
Along and then you go back and going to.

Speaker 5 (26:49):
WORKSHIT i tell PEOPLE i feel LIKE i became the
shooter THAT i am BECAUSE i shot so much by
myself and THAT i never got bored and still to this,
DAY i don't get bored with seeing the ball go
through the basket the same way BECAUSE i do it
the same. Way and that me and me and my

(27:09):
son would have battles because he would get caught in His,
kobe he'd get.

Speaker 4 (27:13):
Got in the.

Speaker 5 (27:14):
COLD i was, Like, bro you didn't hit twenty in
a row and now you want to.

Speaker 4 (27:17):
Fade why not make the twenty first?

Speaker 5 (27:20):
One because for, me it's not the twenty first or
one hundred, first it's just that.

Speaker 4 (27:25):
One and how DO i make sure that every single
jump is just?

Speaker 5 (27:30):
One and Now i'm putting all of this into this
single one and That and that's when WHEN i was
working With, KOBE i would have to remind him our
word was, extension Because cob shot so many, balls not
just shooting, him but thinking about shooting, him that he
was always on to the next. One And i'm, like, no,

(27:52):
bro stay there with that, one because when you did,
that stated until you see that shit go, in and
then we are and you go still then come back
and do it, again you know What i'm, saying and
again and again and that and that was the part
THAT i loved, with you, know working with, him was

(28:12):
that his his mental focus and his Preparation BEFORE i
go out, THERE i want to make sure THAT i
have all.

Speaker 4 (28:23):
The bases covered possible BEFORE i strap them.

Speaker 5 (28:26):
On and then WHEN i strap them, On i'm gonna
have that connected with, that it's gonna be.

Speaker 4 (28:30):
Ugly it's gonna be.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
UGLY i got to steal that When i'm talking to
my uh my daughter's, team just the one make all
them shots one.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
Shot, Yes and that's the and that's the hardest.

Speaker 6 (28:41):
Part we're gonna we're gonna touch on this a little.
Later but you told me something THAT i thought was,
crazy super. Fascinating what's the difference you play with him
and you coach With phil and work With. Kobe what's
the difference between those two in your?

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Opinion right?

Speaker 4 (28:56):
Hand?

Speaker 5 (28:57):
Why because What kobe would be going to the line
to shoot, too M j was going to shoot and
one so a lot of them knocks That kobe had
to shoot with two hands when that.

Speaker 4 (29:10):
Knock what? HAPPENED? Mj put that bad boy over?

Speaker 3 (29:12):
Here you?

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Know, oh that's the. Difference, okay, okay, OKAY i didn't hear.

Speaker 7 (29:22):
That that's that to me is the only difference is
that gripper that gripper because, Man i'm telling YOU i
haven't seen his.

Speaker 5 (29:32):
Brother make like hes going to do a crossover and you.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Come, on, man that's a myth right? Now?

Speaker 5 (29:42):
Bro come, on, Man i'm telling him And DOCTOR j
the them. Hands, Yeah, bro you know What i'm.

Speaker 4 (29:47):
Saying it's.

Speaker 5 (29:47):
Certain it's. Certain and that's the way you, say like
the creator knows who should have.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
Exactly you can't question, them.

Speaker 5 (29:55):
You know What i'm, saying what they? What this is
what you're gonna need to. Do what you got in
your mind you're gonna, do and there it, is go for.
It and then you Have KOBE mj that Engined. Westbrook
when you look at people Like John moran who had,
that when you'd be, like that's a different.

Speaker 4 (30:17):
Engine you know What i'm, SAYING i can. Work Like
i'm telling, YOU i was with Him jay four and
a half seasons or. Whatever never lost a, suicide, mm
never never.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Lost, Never it's. Crazy.

Speaker 4 (30:32):
Never, no.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
That's hard to. Believe some DAYS i don't feel.

Speaker 5 (30:40):
Like and we would Ask phil how many we got after,
practice and he would ask us how many we.

Speaker 4 (30:45):
Want because we knew he knew we was trying to get.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Him mm. Hmmm so it would be.

Speaker 4 (30:53):
It would be like, this all, right me and bj
we're gonna go out hard on.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
Him are?

Speaker 3 (30:58):
Y'allways team up on?

Speaker 4 (30:59):
It leave as soon as a whistle. Blow as soon
as a whistle, Blow he damned it coming back at.
Us if you feel me on the rail and this
ain't no this ain't this ain't no, job And i'm.
RUNNING i feel LIKE i could run all. Day you
feel me and quick and quick, hands some.

Speaker 5 (31:19):
Speed but, man it wasn't even it wasn't even fair
on the rail and honestly checked us. Out kobe rehabit
and we And anaheim getting ready to play a preseason,
game right so going through our workout before every other
team comes out and then the other team get ready
to come.

Speaker 4 (31:37):
Out he's like watch, this Hotch like what he's, like watch?

Speaker 5 (31:40):
This he get on the sideline and started running like
he us saying boat up and down the sideline where
the other team coming out to.

Speaker 4 (31:49):
Shoot they can't even look they're looking at him because
he running like he's eating the.

Speaker 5 (31:54):
Lines you know What i'm, saying and that's the temperament
that He Jan cass can talk.

Speaker 4 (32:01):
About talk about something different and you're.

Speaker 5 (32:04):
Crazy so when we when we got with The, lakers
we go to a wife for our first training. Camp
were on the, plane he tapped me on the. Shoulder,
man when we get, IN i want to have lunch with. You,
okay get, in go, downstairs we have. Lunch it was all, about,
man how did M j make people?

Speaker 4 (32:21):
Better what was he? Like and THEN i had never
seen any practice sign. Practice it was like Watching MICHAEL whoa.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
The first and everything.

Speaker 5 (32:36):
Gas, me gas me and, mannerisms Everything i'm, like and
then understanding of how much he watched him growing, up
but to be able to see to see, it put
it in practice and then go do. It he would
call me and, Say, hi do we need some work

(32:57):
in the. Morning, okay we get that six thirty and
he working on four spots that he's gonna get thirty
from that. Night and he ain't taking no shots the,
box box elbow. Wing feel me And i'm talking about,
precision And i'm pissed because it's thirty five forty minutes

(33:18):
or nothing but d for. Me you, know you know
What i'm, saying And i'm, like, Man i'm knowing. Him
he won a different look every single. Time, yea, yeah
And i'm gonna give him that just from a competitive.
End and LIKE i, said like you talk about how
much of a blessing it was to play with, him
play with, Him, JAY i got AN mj almost every day,

(33:41):
practice you, Know AND i loved it because for me
it was like WHEN i know he's gonna, Post i'm
just front, y'all better help.

Speaker 4 (33:48):
Me you feel?

Speaker 5 (33:49):
Me and then when he, Shoot i'm, Gone and now
he got to try to cross match to get back
And i'm shooting this, thing you, know to have to
play with, him and then to Watch kobe and to
See kobe say all, right, Man i'm gonna do these
two footworks from here And i'm gonna get. Fourteen i'm
gonna do these over, here And i'm gonna get at
least twenty into the line for four.

Speaker 4 (34:10):
More and we go back and it beat them, spots.

Speaker 5 (34:16):
Beat them spots because he didn't looked and, Said, okay
this team got this type of d they gonna throw at,
me this team got this big down, here SO i
ain't gonna be going down the town.

Speaker 4 (34:27):
And he too small with.

Speaker 6 (34:29):
Me did you go to keep your? Training did you
go with us To? Spain, no you weren't, There so
we was on the flight To. SPAIN i told this story,
before BUT i just want to add on to what
you're thinking when you talk about the way he looks at.
Defense so this is when everybody with sleeves on the
big huge plane with the families there and. Everything he
has his headphones on AND i think he's over there,
wrapping So i'm gonna go talk shit to. HIM i

(34:49):
get up and there's like thirty different courts and he's
drawing where the defense is gonna. Be he's, LIKE i
don't look at the guy guard. ME i don't look
at the. HELP i look at the third. Guy this
is where you guys are going to be open. At
so he had some ship where L o is gonna
be open Me Steve Blake fish run like this nigga.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Is sick because it's gonna take three times sick.

Speaker 6 (35:09):
Go but then you talk about his kill spots on
top of, that AND i know how the defensive plays
like when he's, like can be that's where you're gonna be.
Open this, One i'm not even worried about this guy
looking at And i'm just, like, oh this.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Text.

Speaker 4 (35:24):
WINNER i was too BEFORE i got on the.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Team it's.

Speaker 5 (35:30):
Crazy and that's what WHEN i got with The, lakers
text would tell. Me, MAN i would have to Tell
kobe to get out of my room because we're watching.
Film And kobe was like the first time he watched
film with, texts he thought he was just gonna watch film.
Him he's, like, no, man we watched the whole game Jump,
ball all the way to the, end and he said
how much that helped him make the game slow?

Speaker 1 (35:50):
Down you know What i'm.

Speaker 4 (35:53):
Saying and then you know, too, man when you got green.

Speaker 5 (35:56):
Green, green green, light lime, green, Different, man come, On
man gave me, that you, Know and that's the probably
like when We're Doug.

Speaker 4 (36:06):
Collins Doug collins was like.

Speaker 5 (36:07):
This people was, like, MAN mj shoot a. Lot, NO
mj just had to make one. Shot anybody you make one,
Shot doug coming back to the.

Speaker 4 (36:17):
Coming back to the same play, twice so you got
two times to score.

Speaker 5 (36:21):
Again SO mj would get on them, runs but you
could get on them runs. Too just you got to
make at least.

Speaker 4 (36:28):
Two to three in a row and just keep it moving.
Man but now not the way the game is.

Speaker 5 (36:33):
Played for, Me i'm so GLAD i played WHEN i
played man because to, me it was it was more,
cohesive it was more i'm gonna, say formalized basketball from
the standpoint that it was a position game to where
now it seems, like you, know it's positionless that if
you can, handle regardless to your, size you're gonna. Handle you,
know you look At yokige And, luca.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
You, know regardless of your.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
Size. Shoot, yeah, yeah let's.

Speaker 6 (37:02):
Back up a little. Bit drafted to The San Diego. Clippers,
yes the owner that ended up losing his job during
my run. Here knowing what you're about what you, study
was there any did you know anything about him before
you got to The?

Speaker 1 (37:17):
Clippers not at.

Speaker 5 (37:18):
All and the crazy part, was you, know for me
coming in as you, know black, studies you, KNOW i,
WAS i was, serious serious as far as my commitment
and still serious about, it BUT i was you know
how you can be too serious.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
And not not enjoy.

Speaker 5 (37:32):
Life so it was one of those things WHERE i
made sure THAT i was on my p's and q's
where the game was, concerned AND i was just, young
And i'm studying and, watching BUT i watched you know
where we would come in with the clippers and not
have a check.

Speaker 4 (37:46):
Signed you know What i'm.

Speaker 5 (37:47):
Saying and it's A friday. Afternoon you know What i'm.
Saying you, know you, know and that type of. Stuff
but also at that time When Bill walton would always
let me, know, yeah, man.

Speaker 4 (37:58):
The owner is a. Slumlord you know What i'm. Saying
that's coming From.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Bill bill was.

Speaker 4 (38:03):
Superman bill was solid.

Speaker 5 (38:05):
Man and that's you know certain. People you, KNOW i
look at my, life, man there's certain people That i've
been blessed to have looked. At WHEN i was a shorty.
MAN i Remember bill when he scored his last game
IN ucla one for twenty two man and ran off the.

Speaker 4 (38:21):
Court you know What i'm.

Speaker 5 (38:22):
Saying when he fired out the, game he was gone
running off AND i was like that white boy, cool
you know What i'm. Saying And, Bill, bill and you
know all type of People i've been able to meet
in my, life you, know whether it Was Jesse, jackson
whether It's mandela you. Know so WHEN i, did y'all notice,
this y'all might have seen, this did y'all y'all watch

(38:44):
The Super, bowl, Right did y'all see THE nfl players
commercial whether there's talking ABOUT i Am?

Speaker 4 (38:51):
Somebody did you see? That anybody see?

Speaker 3 (38:54):
That?

Speaker 5 (38:54):
Okay that was the mantra THAT i had WHEN i
was eight years old At Operation Bread basket In chicago
By Reverend Jesse Jackson.

Speaker 4 (39:03):
Jr, really AND i, said they didn't even get his
brother no credit on.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
THAT i remember that that was his whole. THING i
am somebody and.

Speaker 5 (39:10):
It started and it started WITH i am, black BUT
i am, somebody all.

Speaker 4 (39:15):
Right so WHEN i seen, THAT i was, like, oh,
man come, on but it's.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Cool, yeah it's.

Speaker 4 (39:20):
Cool but where we just like right now one of
the things that we have to do is. Players And
i'm glad this came. Up Spencer. Haywood.

Speaker 5 (39:27):
Yep we have got to make sure that we start
calling this To Spencer haywood rule and that it was
because Of spencer that people could come in early.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Out of high, school no, question you.

Speaker 5 (39:39):
Know and that's the, part and you, know just things
like that from a historical, level, Man and That spencer
is one of the other brothers THAT i had a.

Speaker 4 (39:47):
Chance you, know now we're, cool and he was one
of the brothers like Man Spencer.

Speaker 5 (39:50):
Wood you know What i'm, Saying, kareem you, Know, Doc
and to get a, chance like you, say WHEN i
came in the, league WHEN i played against The lakers
the first it was a trip getting to you, know
getting to get a greens To, kareem you know What i'm,
saying and to be able to, Say, man you, here
but you.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
Can't be enamored we're being. Here it's putting in. Work
it's putting in.

Speaker 5 (40:14):
Work but also knowing, That and that's one of the things,
too is WHEN i look at how right, now to some,
DEGREE i look back and, say, man IF i was
a one, dimensional just a basketball player and not thinking
about the, Liberation i'm glad You it'll been some numbers
put up y'all on the. Reil AND i ain't saying

(40:36):
that to be. Facetious i'm, saying you, know, summertime, summertime
summertime Run i'm getting thirty fives and forties in the,
city SO i know. That But i'm looking at HOW
i was taught to play the, game all. Right Steve
fisher was my high school coach that coached the five.
Five SO i had three and a half hours every

(40:59):
day of drill.

Speaker 4 (41:01):
Work you feel me in.

Speaker 5 (41:02):
Discipline, man in the early part of the, GAME i
come down in high school AND i drop a dame
behind my back and before he finished the layft the
horn was boring for me to come out the. Game,
Okay now fourth, quarter fourth, quarter same, game come, down
drop the same, Time no, problem because it's in the
heat of the.

Speaker 4 (41:21):
Battle make the. Play don't need that. Early just make a.

Speaker 5 (41:24):
Play and that taught, Me, OKAY i can make these,
plays but be cognizant because you're gonna come out of the.
Game and why come out the. Game you on the
road where you got almost thirty eight right, now don't
do nothing, stupid don't get your, forties you know What i'm.
Saying so it's a different it's a different. Mindset and for,
ME i, was LIKE i, SAID i was blessed to
be able to have great teaching all the way, through

(41:45):
go From Steve fisher to Text, winner from Text winner
To Paul silas To Jimmy lineham To Don, Nelson Cotton,
Fitzsimmons Doug, Collins Phil. Jackson you, know SO i Had
i've had great teaching all the way, through and probably
one of the greatest TEACHERS i had along that way
was Down nelson and you Know, Nellie. Nellie nelly was.

(42:07):
Cool AND i think one of the cold parts About
nelly that that when he got The Golden, state he
changed you feel? Me he became mellow Man. Milwaukee he
was a, psycho was?

Speaker 6 (42:21):
HE i want to hear about this side because he
was so cool with.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Us super mellow with, us letting the smoke tree in his,
creb his apartment all.

Speaker 4 (42:28):
That, no no dig. THIS i go To. Hawaii who was? That?

Speaker 1 (42:35):
YES i love, you get ready to love.

Speaker 4 (42:37):
YOU i go To.

Speaker 5 (42:39):
MAUI i go To mawi AND i visit field all
these trees and. Shit right, Now i'm playing with the
Bucks i'm.

Speaker 4 (42:46):
Burning he calls me in the office one, Day, Yeah,
craig we need to. Talk what's up smoking?

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Weed?

Speaker 3 (42:52):
Right i'm Like.

Speaker 4 (42:53):
He's, like, well give it a couple of, days take
it off a couple of, days, Right And i'm, like
y'all get out.

Speaker 5 (42:57):
There it's, like, man you was messing with me about
smoking weed WHEN i was playing what you tripping?

Speaker 1 (43:01):
On?

Speaker 4 (43:01):
Right but, Anyway nelly.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
Was like, This nelly cush.

Speaker 4 (43:04):
EXACTLY i was like, What but, anyway when we was In, Milwaukee,
man we would have thirty days of tour days old.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
School, YEAH i need to trade, me you feel?

Speaker 5 (43:15):
Me thirty days of two days And i'm talking About
nelly was like, THIS i got.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
Traded, YEAH i ain't able to do it.

Speaker 5 (43:20):
Me Terry cummings And Ricky, pierce we get traded To,
milwaukee all. Right they get there for the first day
of the first practice that.

Speaker 4 (43:28):
MORNING i come in that.

Speaker 5 (43:29):
Afternoon So i'm going up to the elevator to Meet
nelly and they're coming down after the first practice In
Ricky pierce country.

Speaker 4 (43:35):
Man hart that more, crazy, Man it can't be that bad.
Man so get up there With nelly's.

Speaker 5 (43:43):
Like, YEAH i could have got you in the trade
a year, ago but NOW i think you're gonna have
a longevity in the.

Speaker 4 (43:49):
Game you got a nice physeq and.

Speaker 5 (43:50):
Everything he's, like but the one thing IS i want
to know if you can handle a motherfucker cussing you.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
Out AND i started.

Speaker 5 (43:58):
Laughing, man go to practice that, night come, in we
take our three. Laps we go right to the, mirror
drill lead.

Speaker 4 (44:07):
Them that's. Me get up, front so, no make them.
Work how does that SHIT.

Speaker 5 (44:14):
I slide for two, minutes leading them, right and now
they take two laps before the next. One i'm getting
ready to take my.

Speaker 4 (44:21):
Lap, no, no, no keep. Sliding i'm, like and you,
know pros when we take, laps were getting the rest.

Speaker 5 (44:30):
Right So i'm looking at the. Brothers come, back give
them three, minutes So i'm ready to. Quit i'm ready
to get. Traded at this, POINT i Told terry comes
out LIKE tc, Man i'm ready to get.

Speaker 4 (44:41):
Traded. Man like, MAN i slow. Down now we go
through that whole thirty.

Speaker 5 (44:45):
Days, man as soon as that camp is, over he
became the coolest coach, ever a player's. Coach but you
know what he told me after it all these like
the way you get control of your team is make
them all hate. You and once you get them all,
hating and now what's? Him he put everybody through, that
and it was, like, man we hate this cat. Man

(45:06):
nelly be sitting there and you Know, milwaukee how cold it.
Is we used to practice in this place Called Cardinals Scritch,
college old.

Speaker 4 (45:13):
School no he.

Speaker 5 (45:16):
Dead, winner, Right nelly sitting in there in a parker
and smoking cigarettes while we running, Laps and it's, like,
man And nelly was always he was cool to the
point where you could joke with.

Speaker 4 (45:30):
Him but he was serious about.

Speaker 5 (45:31):
Winning he was serious about unless we played The, celtics
and then it was like he ain't gonna.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
Coach he ain't gonna.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
Coach, no, man why.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Not read our?

Speaker 4 (45:40):
Back he all read his.

Speaker 5 (45:41):
Career so we go In Boston, garden we waiting For
nelly to give us one of these bombed inventions on
the sideline and time.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
Out he's. Silent, man it's The Houston Conference. Finals, Man no
no rep no. Rip, okay all, right, okay talk through the.

Speaker 6 (46:00):
Motion that's like the culture and the water boy man
when he was intimidated by the other exactly basically.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
What he did after we Beat dallas shut it.

Speaker 5 (46:07):
DOWN i think you know one of the, things you,
know When steve was in the high, School, steve that
which happened would not not just And chris at. All
that would have never happened with my high school, team
never Because fish made sure you was on point and

(46:31):
and locked.

Speaker 4 (46:31):
In but it, happened you.

Speaker 5 (46:33):
Know but he was always understanding of the impact that
players could, have especially going into. College he understood that
he couldn't be as he was when he was around
us in high, school you, know so he became more more,
calm and he came into great. Situations, man you know
What i'm. Saying he came into you know when that

(46:55):
when that five to five thing went, down that was perfect.
Timing he had recruited them all and you were second in,
charge and then the coach steps.

Speaker 4 (47:02):
Down so you in good.

Speaker 3 (47:03):
Shape From milwaukee To, chicago.

Speaker 4 (47:08):
From milwaukee To, Phoenix, phoenix, YEAH i.

Speaker 5 (47:11):
WAS i went FROM i got traded To phoenix the
same day With Kevin, Johnson Mark, West Tyrone. CORBIN i
came From milwaukee For Jay. Humphreys jay went to The.
BUCKS i came to The. Sins i'm leading the league
in three point percentage at the TIME i get. Traded
WHEN i get traded in as soon AS i get
off the, Plane i'm on IR i don't know how

(47:33):
did this? Happen but, okay. Cool So i'm, like, Well
i'm gonna go home with some hardwork Because i'm gonna
be the three point. Title and you know that we
only had maybe fifteen games left after that because we
weren't go into the. Playoffs and THEN i went to
training camp the following season AND i got traded probably
like mid Almost. December and what's cool about that situation

(47:54):
is That Jerry, COLANGELO i went to high school.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
With all my.

Speaker 4 (47:58):
Family he's From.

Speaker 5 (47:59):
Chicago the gym At Bloom High school was named After Jerry.
Colangelo so when he called me in to trade me To,
chicago he's, like, Yeah Craig cotton would love to have.
You you, Know cotten Fits simmons would love to keep
you as an insurance. Policy BUT i got a trade
you might.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
LIKE i was, like what's. Up he's Like.

Speaker 4 (48:15):
CHICAGO i was, like oh.

Speaker 5 (48:17):
Man he's, like, yeah make sure you tell your family
HOW i was, like cooler, man it. Was it was
cool from that point on to be able to come
home and be the first homeborn, champion you know What i'm,
Saying and to be able to look at it from
a different perspective that HAD i came To chicago as a,
ROOKIE i wouldn't have been. Ready but to be able
to come in as a six year veteran with playoff,

(48:37):
experience probably more playoff. Experience the other person that might
have had more than me Was Bill. Cartwright so you
come in with a level of you, know seniority and
in a mindset that you ready to.

Speaker 4 (48:48):
Deliver. MAN i remember we played we played The bulls
WHEN i was In, milwaukee and you know how you're
going through layup line and you cross, paths AND i
remember crossing paths with M jay and we drapped it
up AND i told, HIM i, said, man if we
ever get, together we're gonna win.

Speaker 5 (49:02):
Championships and we kept going and we came. Back AND
i tell, people when you look at the, numbers he's twenty,
Three i'm, Fourteen my one and my four encompasses two
and three together the equal.

Speaker 4 (49:16):
Ten so ain't no way we could.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Lose in a way we could.

Speaker 3 (49:19):
Lose so your first year In, chicago you guys lose To.

Speaker 4 (49:24):
Detroit, yes and GET i asked with.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
What'd you guys learn from?

Speaker 5 (49:28):
That that the biggest thing was their physicality versus our.
Athleticism so when they were KNOCKING mj, down they're, Taped
scottie out a little, bit, okay we would react to them.
Taps the following, year it was make sure that when

(49:52):
anybody got, tapped two or three of us go over
there quick and get them right to the line and
get them up and let's go that it ain't gonna
beat us lingering over this hit or looking. Back, no, no,
no get your ass, up get you the, line make
your free.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
Throws they gonna file you because they can't stop.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
You you know What i'm.

Speaker 5 (50:08):
Saying because the athleticism that we had in our front,
line man was stupid at that at that period of.
Time and being able to play under the system that
we played under With, doug it was tough because everything
was run so much THROUGH mj that it was hard
for the younger Cats, pete you, KNOW Bj stacy for

(50:28):
them to be able to see how this is.

Speaker 4 (50:29):
Played you.

Speaker 5 (50:30):
Know so once it became a thing where everybody was
gonna get, touches it became a different, game. Man and
and once again it was, uh you, KNOW mj was
hot with the system when it was walked.

Speaker 4 (50:41):
On he didn't want to he didn't want to want
to run, triangle you.

Speaker 5 (50:44):
Know but it was like and and that's another, thing you,
know watching The Last dance and the the aura of
the mystique Of mike in the ora of The mystique
OF mj or twenty three or whatever you want to call,
it and the reality of what the locker room was
like that that wasn't a he wasn't a senior in the.

(51:06):
Class you know What i'm. Saying that Was bill Cut.
Right so it wasn't ever where he was gonna Speak
bill or he was gonna Speak, hodge because it was a.
Seniority you came in the. League we was in the
league when you came, Here so it's not gonna be different.
Level and so people from the outside would see it one,
way but we on the inside understood it to be
what it was and that you, know when things would go,
awry it was gonna be your. Teach and that's what

(51:27):
we Call bill cut, Right, yo, teach what's what's? Up
and you're gonna, Drop you're gonna let, it let it be.
Known and it wasn't nobody gonna challenge. That and that's
the part WHERE i, think you, know the the whole
media side of things can cause like cosset. Friction you,
know WHEN i look at the opportunity That Derrick rose
And Jimmy butler had together In, chicago but the media

(51:49):
wanted to make it which Team whose team is? It
as opposed to see these young brothers realize what we
could do as a camaraderie and make this thing go
for a. Championship and that's the part that you know
understanding that different, Systems and that's WHAT i tell people
all the.

Speaker 4 (52:04):
TIME i don't care what you're.

Speaker 5 (52:06):
In systems win, championships and every system that has a
defensive component on, it defense wins. Championship so we hang
our had on. Defense and the way that we do
that is going to give us an opportunity to bust
out of this thing and play offense the way we
want to play, it which is. Run people think that
triangle slow.

Speaker 4 (52:25):
Down you think about.

Speaker 5 (52:25):
It we wanted to run most of the time when
we're trying to do the, tryang we're trying to run to. Numbers,
now if the numbers ain't, there let's flow into our
system and get things popping, off you, know without the
ball getting.

Speaker 4 (52:37):
Stuck in one, place you, know pipping.

Speaker 6 (52:41):
Incredible, yeah you were telling. Me this is one THING
i asked. YOU i asked you two. Things we'll get into.
IT i was, like how good was he and should
he feel the way he should feel Towards mike at this,
POINT i think that was, Something but how good was?

Speaker 5 (52:54):
HE i think he was better THAN mj just from
a natural six seven with the same. Components but not
only is your right your left is that, big you
know What i'm, Saying and you finishing.

Speaker 4 (53:06):
Were both equally like.

Speaker 5 (53:07):
That the difference was was that the level of confidence
coming out of and so.

Speaker 4 (53:13):
Much when we look at, it think about.

Speaker 5 (53:15):
It if you think about how many guys you played,
with so much was given to them that they lent
to their, confidence you know What i'm.

Speaker 4 (53:22):
Saying so IF i know THAT i got all of.

Speaker 5 (53:24):
These people behind me and all these people supporting, me
Then i'm gonna go out And i'm gonna pay a
different way as opposed TO i got to prove to
these people That i'm. Capable scotty come in having to
prove itself From Central, arkansas as opposed to knowing that,
Dude i'm six, SEVEN i got, HANDLES i gotta, JUMP
i can. SHOOT i still got to prove. Myself where
m was already proven to a, degree it was just

(53:44):
a matter of how good.

Speaker 4 (53:45):
He was gonna.

Speaker 5 (53:46):
Become and that you, know WHEN i look at pichure,
Development scotty is silly. Man scotty And horse they used
to keep things so light hearted because they were silly young.
Folks but they played hard and they got every, day
AND i think that's the part That Pip pip became
better with every. Touch AND i think you, know when

(54:07):
they named in the top, fifty it took his confidence
to a different. Level BUT i think he felt THAT
mj could have done more from a business side of helping,
him you know What i'm, saying from the side of
saying all, right you think how many professional athletes today
and of yesteryear who gave a piece of themselves contractually

(54:29):
in order to keep my boy, here you know What i'm,
Saying and THAT i Think scotty wanted a little bit
of that to. Happen and you, know sometimes you, know
the friendship and like THEY i soaught a piece the
other day where they was Asking scotty if him And
michael ever had a dinner.

Speaker 4 (54:44):
Together you're, like, No AND i could see THAT i
can see.

Speaker 5 (54:48):
Them never sitting down. There you, know yes it. Is
but then when he said, NO i was, LIKE i,
thought y'all had you know What i'm, saying at some,
point you, know if nothing else but The olympics Or Dream,
team and sometime y'all had to sit. Down BUT i
could believe it after talking about, it him talking about

(55:08):
it the way he. DID i could believe, it you,
know but it's not you, know it's not taking anything
away from what we did on a basketball.

Speaker 4 (55:17):
Level what are we doing as? Men you know What i'm?
Saying what is where are we at right?

Speaker 5 (55:22):
Now?

Speaker 4 (55:22):
Man LIKE i, said we're too old for that.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
Dumb, shit, right you spoke.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
Old On where DO i want to go? There AND
i don't want to go?

Speaker 6 (55:32):
There talk to me about the one time you guys
are finishing up the season Against, miami right and you're
going to see him in the first round of the playoffs.

Speaker 5 (55:42):
Exactly we're playing In miami and we're rolling at this.
Time the system is system is really playing for. Itself
and that's the cool part about the. System once you
get into, it you just come to. Games, man you
done did it so much and its. Flows so we're
going to shoot around and we're leaving shoot around and
we're on the bus and THEM ja, like, man drop
me off here and drop him off at the bar and,

(56:02):
say you're gonna have some, beers, right, huh say you're
gonna have some. Beers, okay gonna have some. Beers so
he tells us to pick him up on the way
back to the.

Speaker 4 (56:11):
Game we pick him.

Speaker 5 (56:12):
Up he still got his sweats, on you know him
j come the game suited and boot it all, right
still got his sweats.

Speaker 4 (56:17):
On pick us. Up he get on the. Bath, yeah,
Man i'm feeling. Good, Right bubbly gets.

Speaker 5 (56:23):
Me at a beer on, him got thirty at half all,
right going through warm.

Speaker 4 (56:29):
Ups, Man i'm seeing three. Rams i'm gonna shoot that
to one in the.

Speaker 5 (56:32):
Middle, okay that's, hard, okay and then told us if
y'all can't beat, him we don't need to win a.
Championship y'all could beat him without. Me but came in
there and he got it done hurly and went set.

Speaker 4 (56:46):
Down, okay rush, fresh, win set.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Down that's.

Speaker 6 (56:53):
Why that's the kind of, Shit not that it bothers
me What dallas's management is trying to Portray luca ass
like we aren't grown man and can handle what we
need to do to their man because they think he
smokes hookah and drinks be it like if you knew
what motherfucker was really doing and still going out there
and being professionals Like and.

Speaker 5 (57:15):
That's the crazy part is they know. It ain't you,
know they can they can play it all, right they.
Don't you don't you paying the amount of money you're
investing to know what these cats are. Doing so you,
know as well as anybody's just a matter that now
you want to you want to.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
Use that as a means of the reason you got
rid of them or.

Speaker 5 (57:31):
Whatever but it's sickning, man it's you, know it's the
same Old you control the, media so you can control
the narrative.

Speaker 6 (57:36):
Degree let's talk about you talking To magic And michael
about sitting out.

Speaker 5 (57:46):
Right that was our nineteen ninety one championship and you
know The Rodney king stuff that went, down and we
man we had and it was TWENTY i think twenty.

Speaker 4 (57:57):
One or the twenty four athletes is Us.

Speaker 5 (57:59):
And you KNOW i harkened back TO i brought to
them that in nineteen sixty. Three that's how we got
a union is by us boycotting at.

Speaker 6 (58:09):
The playoffs on Keep your thought was this them together, separately. Separately,
Okay so you talk To mike and then you talk
To man.

Speaker 4 (58:15):
Exactly AND MJ i spoke to him before.

Speaker 5 (58:19):
PRACTICE i was, like, dude if we boycott this first,
game how much action they're gonna have to do for,
us whether it be in the front, office whether it
be in, ownership they're gonna have to make some. Concessions
and me knowing studying The All star weekend and how
the union came. About When Jerry west and Elgend bale

(58:41):
and the brother say we ain't gonna, play concessions were made.

Speaker 4 (58:44):
So that game could go. On same thing would.

Speaker 5 (58:47):
Happen y'all, know if twenty minutes on the, clock The
lakers and don't come out in the, Court bulls don't
come out in the. Court the media is, saying, oh they're,
playing they're playing mental.

Speaker 4 (58:58):
Games eighteen on the. Clock somebody from the organization is
coming down at what's going. On twenty one or twenty
four four athletes can, say we're not gonna plan until
we get some.

Speaker 5 (59:12):
Concessions concession's gonna be made right. Away magic said it
was too. SEVERE mj said he wasn't doing.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
It.

Speaker 5 (59:22):
Okay my thing was. Okay HAD i had the mindset,
NOW i wouldn't have.

Speaker 4 (59:28):
Played you feel, Me BUT i wasn't.

Speaker 5 (59:31):
Thinking once, again me thinking and the collective not me,
thinking that we're gonna step out.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
There.

Speaker 4 (59:38):
Now we went to The White, house it was a different.
Thing we hear and this is WHAT i gotta. Do
you know What i'm.

Speaker 5 (59:42):
SAYING i gotta be on because ain't nobody else gonna bring,
This SO i gotta make SURE i get delivered as
message that needs to be delivered and should have been
delivered a long time. AGO i gotta make SURE i
give it to you so you can say you got.
It and he put on a historical.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
Record talk to us about what that message was and what.

Speaker 5 (59:56):
You did well once we won a. Championship this is
the ninety one ship first. Championship, okay well we lost In,
Detroit douglas, coach we crowned like, babies, Man And i'm,
like you know. What it hit me sometime during the

(01:00:16):
season that we need ancestral help on this, thing that
we ain't got enough heart right. Now SO i, Said
i'm gonna Wear.

Speaker 4 (01:00:24):
DASHIKI'S i Wore dashiki for every playoff, game.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
You know What i'm.

Speaker 5 (01:00:28):
Saying and for, me it was a thing that this
is our cultural. Heritage and when we went to The
White house after, WINNING i warned them the whole time
to the, point you, know we are people in the front,
office how did you win A dashika?

Speaker 4 (01:00:40):
Tonight?

Speaker 5 (01:00:41):
MAN i got enough of these for the whole. Year Bro,
Okay so let's. Roll we gonna we got, this so
everybody looking for.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
It.

Speaker 5 (01:00:47):
Now when we go to The White house AND i
Wear dashiki to The White house and the national media is,
there it's a different, project all. Right, likewise WHEN i get,
THERE i wrote a letter the night, before and the
crazy part with, That i'm playing ping pong with my
boy and it hits, me, man you better write that.
Letter And i'm, thinking when it hit, ME i was

(01:01:09):
HARKing back to WHEN i was in sixth, grade, man
AND i was writing a letter to the. Mayor you hear,
Me WHEN i was in, College i'm writing a letter
to the congress, people And i'm, like you're.

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
Going to the most important time in your, life sit
you but down and.

Speaker 5 (01:01:20):
Write and the thing that for, me it was about
us getting a chance to go with Special.

Speaker 4 (01:01:36):
Yes, lord you got. IT i told. HIM i told.
HIM i told, him, yeah. Yeah, violation, violation.

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
Yes, yeah shot clock. Violation.

Speaker 6 (01:01:49):
Man, see you're, right you're writing this. Letter you headed
to The White house the next. Day what's this letter consist.

Speaker 5 (01:01:54):
Of it's mainly asking the president to consider the issue
as the poor, people you, Know i'm getting a chance
to come to this great, edifice you, know and just
to see the, power you, know and being a descendant
of a former, SLAVE i would like you to consider
the issues of poor people and people of color the
same way you consider foreign. Policy you feel me and

(01:02:15):
everybody took it as meaning, that, OH i.

Speaker 4 (01:02:17):
Wrote a letter a. Militant, LOOK i ain't never had no.
WEAPONS i don't own no. GUNS i ain't never had no.

Speaker 5 (01:02:25):
GUN i shot A bb gun WHEN i was in
sixth grade AND i shot a bird in the eye
AND i looked at that AND i shot that bird
and eye that bird failed on my, feet AND i started,
crying AND i took that gun apart and threw it
every PLACE i, could AND i, said that wouldn't happen.

Speaker 4 (01:02:38):
Again so for, me it ain't about being a.

Speaker 5 (01:02:40):
Militant it's about being able to stand on the principles
THAT i was taught about and knowing that my hero
Is Doctor king From, afar you, know and THEN i
got to learn About. Malcolm BUT i vibe On Doctor
king BECAUSE i don't like, violence.

Speaker 4 (01:02:58):
You, know AND i feel like there's no reason for.

Speaker 5 (01:03:00):
It the only reason for it is greed more than
anything that those who have the ability and power to
make weapons of. War it's about, greed it's not about.
People and we can we can talk all of this
we want. To but the reality for me was knowing
That i'm getting a chance to go to The White.
HOUSE i might not get a chance to come.

Speaker 4 (01:03:22):
Here we, know you win one, championship you don't know
if you're gonna win, again.

Speaker 5 (01:03:26):
And to get a chance to go to let the
president know, that you, know could you consider our?

Speaker 4 (01:03:31):
Issues and he was cool as a. Fan.

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
Man you handed him this.

Speaker 4 (01:03:34):
Note, NO i couldn't hand it to.

Speaker 5 (01:03:35):
Him WHEN i GOT i told Her Tim hallian moves
our press, PERSON i, SAID i wrote the president. Letter
and then when he got, there he told him that
one of our players has a letter you want to
give to the, president but you can't hand him anything,
direct you. Know SO i gave it to his press.
Secretary but it's part of the library down In.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Dallas so, man a lot of people don't.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Know they wasn't offended by are worried about you putting
people together and going shoot. People they was used to
that you were shooting with your, mind and that's that's
what offended There that's what they was worried.

Speaker 5 (01:04:11):
About and you know the crazy part that you say, that,
man is that When i'm, Playing i'm communicating with. People,
i'm LIKE i, Said i'm a talker AND i get
excited about. Info so IF i get some information, Today
i'm gonna try to share with.

Speaker 4 (01:04:25):
Y'all you feel me in.

Speaker 5 (01:04:26):
That and my, teammates The John paxton tell you trying
to be like, Man hodge wasn't being preachy or. Nothing
he was just wanting to share his info with, us
and we was cool with him sharing it with. Us
but when it comes to that information being being able
to affect the bottom line or, something, right then it
becomes a. Problem, right you know What i'm, Saying LIKE
i tell y'all, Something remember when when the brothers were

(01:04:50):
we IN i can't breathe, church all, Right we don't
realize how much power we had right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
Then we didn't me and you was in the. Field
we was in the, field.

Speaker 5 (01:05:01):
Yes sell you In, chicago and it was it was
wild to me to see how much how worried they
were when they saw when they saw brothers with shirts
talking ABOUT i can't breathe with them shirts on in their.
Uniforms but have we said we're not taking these shirts

(01:05:21):
off to show these uniforms until changes are.

Speaker 4 (01:05:25):
Made but the, bubble why did we? Go why did
we go to the?

Speaker 5 (01:05:32):
Bubble AND i told people, THIS i, said regardless of
what we want to look, at we have to realize
how important THE nba is to the bottom line of.

Speaker 4 (01:05:41):
Economics all, RIGHT.

Speaker 5 (01:05:46):
Covid didn't start until old boy From utah started talking
crazy with the.

Speaker 6 (01:05:51):
Mic THE nba shut the world down when it when,
It when it went, down everything else followed and suit now.

Speaker 5 (01:05:56):
The crazy part, this this is a, funny funny part from.

Speaker 4 (01:06:00):
Me was the funny part for me was when we
went into the. Bubble what did the bubble look like to?
You you know what the bubble look like to? Me
a video? Game it's a video.

Speaker 5 (01:06:11):
Game SO i, said, okay let's look at it like this.
One if we can't get fans in the, stands we
can get fans on our video. Games so we're gonna
make this look it's much like a video, game and
we're gonna get as many people on white two k's
we can because we got to continue to make this bread.

Speaker 4 (01:06:28):
Out we can make this, bread y'all and it's. Cool it's.

Speaker 5 (01:06:31):
Cool so like with, THIS i know a lot of
people that know me right now when y'all show, this
AND i don't know how much you're gonna, cut but
they gonna get worried about this, part this part right,
here because for, me they're gonna worry About hodges all.
RIGHT a lot of people worry About hodges because Of hodge.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
SPEAK i love.

Speaker 4 (01:06:48):
IT i can't help. IT i can help it IF
i Get muzzle to help.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
It you know What i'm.

Speaker 4 (01:06:53):
Saying that shut it?

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
Down.

Speaker 4 (01:06:54):
Boom ain't nothing happening.

Speaker 5 (01:06:56):
Then but other than, that if you're gonna sit and
talk to, me we got to talk about the reality
of where we are and the reality of why we are.

Speaker 4 (01:07:03):
Here see every psyche right, now.

Speaker 5 (01:07:07):
The thing that's affecting every single person on the planet.

Speaker 4 (01:07:11):
Is Elon musk right, now just by going THROUGH US
A I D.

Speaker 5 (01:07:20):
United states, Right international. Development that's critical of, us that's.
CRITICAL i love. THIS i love, that oh all, day all.
Day we love, that and.

Speaker 4 (01:07:39):
It would and we didn't have to worry about these.
Matters BUT i gotta worry about.

Speaker 5 (01:07:44):
Them the REASON i gotta worry about him because ninety
nine point nine percent of my people are not studying.
This they're not even conscious of what's getting ready to
come down the.

Speaker 4 (01:07:54):
Pipe. Okay and that's the part for, me is that.

Speaker 5 (01:08:00):
We who are making these billions of dollars and millions of, dollars,
y'all we're getting ready to have a most vital.

Speaker 4 (01:08:06):
Role we're gonna have.

Speaker 5 (01:08:08):
More so we gonna be able to put our money
where our mouths. Are, Now, okay it ain't gonna be
no thing where somebody gonna be able to, say you
know What i'm.

Speaker 4 (01:08:17):
Getting back to the.

Speaker 5 (01:08:18):
Community, Okay, okay we're gonna, see we gonna, see we
gonna see how much you're willing to give back when
this thing goes down on the level that nobody.

Speaker 4 (01:08:30):
Has ever seen. Before All.

Speaker 5 (01:08:32):
Right the reason we ain't never seen it before is
that we have never had the historical events that have
happened In america happened In. America for, one have we
ever been In america as black men and we set
home and got?

Speaker 4 (01:08:45):
Paid? No did it happen IN Covid did it? Happen
did we set at home and get? Paid? Never in?

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
History?

Speaker 5 (01:08:53):
Right, okay we got we got Put look at this.

Speaker 4 (01:09:03):
The only people that are more brainwashed than. Us and
maybe they're not because they're in their own. Land It's North.
Korea we're the dumbest people on the. Planet you know.
Why and it ain't, this ain't no This i'm talking about.
ME i love being.

Speaker 5 (01:09:20):
Here my father was In Korean, war my uncles was In,
vietnam my other uncles In.

Speaker 4 (01:09:27):
Germany SO i got tom you, know we got we
got patriotic shit going on. Too but the patriotism from
this end is one.

Speaker 5 (01:09:37):
THAT i gotta, work THAT i gotta do this, work
and me doing the work has got to be able
to tell to people who don't know and in these
this right, here this medium was given for this moment in,

(01:09:57):
time or we would not be sitting.

Speaker 4 (01:09:59):
There there ain't no, coincidences y'all. None so the.

Speaker 5 (01:10:04):
Fact that you've seeing my god, SON i was supposed
to be In, frisco you're seeing all of this happens
for a. Reason and the reason is more profound than
we could ever think. About because the creative wrote the
plan from the end till the, beginning and we're at this.
Point but we can see by the markers in the.
Sand we can see. It if you can't see. It
if we can't check this, out if we can't see,

(01:10:24):
it you don't want to see. It if you don't
understand what TikTok, is you don't want to see, It black.
Folks so WHEN i see my people battling on, TikTok
that bothers. Me that bothers me because why are we
battling for WHAT i thought we had? Grown so when
we use these, mediums they have to come across with

(01:10:46):
some positive things that are going to reconstruct our historical.
Legacy it's been. Buried we got to reconstruct. It we
gotta reinvigorate.

Speaker 4 (01:10:59):
It and we got to Recivilize, america Make america great. Again,
okay when was it? Great not?

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
Fuzz when was it?

Speaker 5 (01:11:15):
Great And i'm and let me say. Something and WHEN
i say, That i'm not saying. That i'm saying that
from give me that that mindset SO i will know
BECAUSE i understand great over. HERE i had a great.
CHILDHOOD i had a great poor. CHILDHOOD i had a
great segregated childhood because we were taught to love one.

Speaker 4 (01:11:32):
Another and it wasn't no it takes the village to raise.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
It, no, no none of.

Speaker 4 (01:11:41):
That we was in the, hood and we were, neighbors
so its.

Speaker 5 (01:11:45):
Neighborhood now they ain't don't nobody know their neighbor and
don't care.

Speaker 4 (01:11:51):
To and That's. America and that's the problem with.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
Me is.

Speaker 5 (01:11:56):
That, Okay, craig you were taught you were blessed by
your mom with a certain thing on her. Mind because
your mother saw while she was nine seven six months,
pregnant she saw dogs being sicked on her, people she
saw pictures of people being. Lynched that was going through
her to, Me, now what AM i supposed to do with?

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
That just?

Speaker 5 (01:12:17):
Hoop just hoop, hoop is what they Tell, lebron shut
up and.

Speaker 4 (01:12:24):
Dribble Whoa how cold was? That how cold was?

Speaker 5 (01:12:28):
That and the cold part of it is how many
people think about us like that was lot in so many,
circles in so many circles are saw we are seeing
as a tool of, oppression.

Speaker 4 (01:12:51):
A medium to keep.

Speaker 5 (01:12:54):
Us looking at goals that are. Unattainable in nineteen seventy,
eight WHEN i graduated from high, school they said one
in fifty two thousand children had a chance to be
a professional athlete on any. Level that's nineteen seventy. Eight
what is it now with the.

Speaker 4 (01:13:13):
Internet you feel. Me your, sons your, twins they got. It,
man how many they got to battle?

Speaker 5 (01:13:18):
Against you, Know so when we look at this and
you Know i'm to, ramble not to, ramble but once,
again LIKE i, said y'all invited. ME i thank y'all
and to be able to get this out off of my,
chest you feel.

Speaker 4 (01:13:32):
Me because of, consequences people, say, man what? Man that
jump shot at The White? House that cost me fifty?
Million fifty?

Speaker 5 (01:13:44):
Million at least we ain't even talk about investment capital
IF i can get IF i get a million AND
i buy a million in.

Speaker 4 (01:13:50):
Gold but it.

Speaker 5 (01:13:55):
Ain't John, carlos one of my, heroes had a chance
to talk to and to know what he went.

Speaker 4 (01:14:01):
Through wife so despondent.

Speaker 5 (01:14:09):
Commit suicide after nineteen sixty, eight and his brother ran
his best win for the, country but stood for his people.
Too and, see and then it becomes the, thing are We?
Americans are We? Americans SHOULD i get backlash for being
able to tell what y'all taught? Me y'all, say go to,
school read, learn, RIGHT i go to, school read interpret

(01:14:31):
WHAT i read in a certain, manner go out and
live my life in that manner THAT i read and
that y'all said was cool Because i'm. Free but then
it becomes a problem because now WHEN i say and
write a letter to the president at thirty two years of,
AGE i can't get an agent to represent me in
a union that is supposed to represent. Us Charlie, granther

(01:14:52):
who's the head of the union at the, time WHEN
i go to The White, house he tells, Me, craig
we have to find an agent that a team owes
a favor so they'll know that you're not a bad.
Guy AND i, Quote i'll never forget. That And i'm, Like,
charlie WHAT i do?

Speaker 4 (01:15:05):
WRONG i won Two world.

Speaker 5 (01:15:07):
CHAMPIONSHIPS i got three consecutive three titles right now in my,
pocket AND i can't get a.

Speaker 4 (01:15:13):
Job what DID i? Do i've never been fined Since
i've been in the.

Speaker 5 (01:15:16):
LEAGUE i never missed a. BUS i was playing a
rep as a. Rookie that's unheard. Of i've been playing
rep for every TEAM i played. For where is the
badness in? That once, again those who control the. Narrative
so the narrative of me going to The White house
in this, manner me having the audacity to write the

(01:15:38):
president of a, letter which until probably five or six years,
ago nobody asked.

Speaker 4 (01:15:44):
Me what was in the? Letter, no, yo, man what
did you?

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
Write?

Speaker 4 (01:15:50):
THEN i look at MY i look At Colin, kaepernick
the position that he. Took the union made concessions for
him to get a. Workout at least if that had
told me to come work, OUT, iu it wudn't worked out. Anywhere.
Stuff you feel me wrong? ANYWHERE i don't. Care bring y'all.
Do this is WHAT i want to. DO i ain't

(01:16:12):
gonna have no demands on Who i'm going to need
here to just work. Out, no let me go work,
out because this is What i'll.

Speaker 5 (01:16:17):
Do and y'all taking away from me the ability to
earn a living for my family and the generations. Thereof
and All i'm saying is to, commissioner should he see,
this to all those who were his underlings or in
this social justice or.

Speaker 4 (01:16:34):
WHATEVER i ain't got no.

Speaker 5 (01:16:35):
ANIMOSITY i got, love AND i got love and energy
for this knowledge base and what my ancestors went. Through
SO i vibe on. That so when y'all see, this
this is me. Hooping now you feel my hoop is my.
Research my research is being able to make sure that
if somebody has some questions about, This i'm able to

(01:16:56):
at least give a valid, answer and IF i, Can't
i'm going to research and find. It so next time
you see, Me i'm gonna have to answer for, you,
bro so that we can move forward from wherever you
stuck on trying to figure out whatever it. Is we
can find the answer for it if we sit down
and we unite.

Speaker 4 (01:17:12):
Ourselves there's already. Done sorry to round brothers.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
Enjoining. It that's the free GAME i. WANTED i don't
even KNOW i was about To where do we go from?
There DAMN i had a question for. You damn.

Speaker 6 (01:17:32):
It that's, LIKE i take you a step, back, OLD
i gotta remember this. QUESTION i got to give me
a come. Around, yeah give me a.

Speaker 2 (01:17:40):
Second during that time WHEN i seen you In, chicago
what were your thoughts OF i.

Speaker 4 (01:17:47):
Was so scared for. You you don't know SCARED i
was for, You.

Speaker 1 (01:17:50):
BRO i think he told me that you.

Speaker 4 (01:17:51):
Don't know SCARED i was for, you all?

Speaker 5 (01:17:55):
Right and it was some sisters standing, THERE i, say,
says look up. There have you ever seen anything like?
That where you standing in?

Speaker 4 (01:18:04):
Here we is on the west, side right, yeap, okay
west side west. Side, now no quasi west. Side that's.

Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
Regentrificating, no, okay somebody that just got killed a couple
of days.

Speaker 5 (01:18:15):
Before We, now, bro let me show you something. Sad
see one thing about. Me i've been talked by some
great brothers on just little, things. Okay and the first
THING i do, IS i, Look, Okay i'm looking where
you're getting ready to come.

Speaker 4 (01:18:28):
Into what do we see? Around?

Speaker 1 (01:18:34):
Yo?

Speaker 3 (01:18:34):
Home?

Speaker 4 (01:18:35):
Girl let me ask you. Something, says look over there
and look upstairs over? There what you?

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
See she?

Speaker 4 (01:18:41):
Said, hey that's? WEIRD i, say what's weird about?

Speaker 1 (01:18:44):
It she?

Speaker 4 (01:18:45):
Said why is? It two white men standing up there
in that?

Speaker 1 (01:18:49):
Window?

Speaker 4 (01:18:51):
Okay all? Right now five minutes later a suit show
up in the window that. Day, Okay NOW i know
this THOUGH.

Speaker 5 (01:19:05):
I know, THIS i KNOW i work for you feel.
ME i KNOW i work for and it ain't even
know it's.

Speaker 4 (01:19:12):
Cool so now WHEN i see, Him i'll let them
SEE i see.

Speaker 5 (01:19:17):
Him me and my boy we walk over there and
we look up at.

Speaker 4 (01:19:21):
Him, yeah we see y'all.

Speaker 5 (01:19:25):
Gone, back, okay and see all of this is, chaos,
Bro all of this is, chaos all, right Understand, chicago
take it for what it's worth and then watching take
it for what it's. Worth BUT i know at that
point in time the way y'all was, moving y'all was.

(01:19:46):
Moving y'all was, moving AND i was worried about our.

Speaker 4 (01:19:51):
Heart y'all was. Moving you follow, me not not worried.

Speaker 5 (01:19:54):
About the final, result but my people who are standing
on something that may be in harm's, way because, man
it's no other way but to do.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
It AND i had no. CLUE i was blind to
a lot of.

Speaker 4 (01:20:13):
Stuff but see once, again.

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:20:19):
That whole, move, bro you have heard Of George.

Speaker 5 (01:20:22):
Soros, Yes, okay, study we just had to study the
bottom line that they taught.

Speaker 4 (01:20:30):
Us you know what they taught. Us the lesson they
taught us best one lesson followed the. Money it's gonna tell.
You it's gonna tell.

Speaker 1 (01:20:38):
You.

Speaker 4 (01:20:38):
Okay everybody who is big has a original.

Speaker 5 (01:20:43):
Backer, okay THEN i go operate outside of. That, okay
you can find it out if you want to look at.

Speaker 4 (01:20:52):
It hid To OPRAH. Rv, Grifflin michael Brother. Night, okay
look at these m Hm now our Operational.

Speaker 5 (01:21:05):
DO i operate outside of that ONCE i get that,
big or DO i still HAVE i got To, okay
what you want to, do all? Right and that's where
we are right, now is, that, hey, Man and it's
a fear. Factor, Fear fear of speaking because your bread

(01:21:26):
might stop.

Speaker 3 (01:21:27):
Flowing fear then of you.

Speaker 4 (01:21:29):
Speaking you know WHAT i heard WHEN i wasn't. Playing
he can't play. Defense NBA's team. Defense ain't nobody stopping
no one. Person he.

Speaker 5 (01:21:44):
Can't, OKAY i can't play d all, right what's the next?
One what's what's the next? One what's the real?

Speaker 4 (01:21:49):
Reason i'm a locker room? Lawyer for? Real that's. That but,
Okay i'm a locker room. Lawyer but do anybody shoot like?

Speaker 5 (01:22:00):
Me and that's that's the funny part about it to,
me is that you, know we're talking about putting a
ball in the.

Speaker 4 (01:22:09):
Basket that's, simplicity that's simplicity thinking about ways to change
the condition of our. People. Mhm it ain't even it
ain't even. Close it ain't even. Close that's WHY i say, basketball, man,
please we can shoot all day and we know we

(01:22:32):
know we're good over.

Speaker 5 (01:22:32):
Here children take, care, generations taking care of peace in the.

Speaker 4 (01:22:37):
World, man let's go. Hoop but until, that, man we
gotta put in some. Study, time but in some study.

Speaker 1 (01:22:45):
Time that's WHY i.

Speaker 5 (01:22:45):
Felt like during THAT covid period he gave us the
greatest opportunity to study and research, still, Man and, that's
like you, say that's one of the hardest things for.
It and in, wisdom, man in wisdom is to be
able to sit still and know that anything that became
great or moving towards greatness is done in. Patience you

(01:23:09):
got to be, patient you, know be, patient be patient
with the.

Speaker 4 (01:23:13):
Process you. Know and it's a. Process this is a.
Process it's a process that y'all get this. Going it
was basketball, first you know What i'm. Saying and then once.

Speaker 5 (01:23:25):
Again it began with a thought y'all brother sitting down somewhere,
saying yea, man.

Speaker 4 (01:23:29):
We could do.

Speaker 5 (01:23:29):
That let's do that, shit and then pop off and
all of a, sudden you got, staff you, hire got,
people you're.

Speaker 4 (01:23:36):
Feeding people were able to, say, Man i'm with.

Speaker 5 (01:23:39):
Them that is Powerful and that's the part that it's
so needed and necessary for this next generation to see
that is more than me going to jack, somebody me
selling this or me selling. That we have become such
a transactional people THAT i got to get to next

(01:24:00):
hit as opposed to being a, transition that it's a
transitional mindset That i'm going from this point And i'm
gonna be at this point And i'm gonna be solid
at this point and being able to look back and, say,
Damn i'm a professional. Now AND i tell people it's
a bed when they put that pro whether you be
a lawyer or, doctor, whatever when they put that pro

(01:24:20):
in front of your, nation you didn't did some. Stuff
you didn't put in some, work and you've been patient
with the process to get.

Speaker 4 (01:24:26):
There and so many of us.

Speaker 5 (01:24:27):
Are and that's WHAT i tell like my baby, boy
AND i love it that he totally anti. TikTok all
that he about researching his music is GoF he's doing,
That And i'm, like, kudos, bro because as long as you,
continue you, KNOW i love messing. Words you, know knowledge two,

(01:24:49):
words no.

Speaker 4 (01:24:50):
Ledge as long As i'm Thinking i'm going, up ain't
gonna father. Off ain't no.

Speaker 5 (01:24:55):
Ledge so as long as we working and, STUDYING i
ain't gonna fall ain't no How because.

Speaker 4 (01:25:04):
The hard the thing that you, know when you, play you,
playing you're, playing somebody just bust you. Up and then
you do. This you feel me ain't not no thoughts down.

Speaker 3 (01:25:13):
There.

Speaker 4 (01:25:14):
Man once you look, up the whole world.

Speaker 6 (01:25:16):
Change so, basically that letter to the president changed your
life and your, career no.

Speaker 5 (01:25:22):
QUESTION i went from being the eighth player on the
team and minute score and minutes play and points scored
to the last player on the team and still won
another three point.

Speaker 6 (01:25:30):
Title but you also told me after the, fact a
lot of your brothers or former colleagues told you they
felt bad because they left, you no, doubt oh by. Yourself,
yes that explain. That and if you want to share
name school if, Not but what did that mean to
you after the.

Speaker 5 (01:25:49):
Fact, yeah it's one of those things where and once
again it's the realization that we were where we were
at that time nineteen ninety. ONE i was thirty one years,
old you know What i'm. Saying and some the young
brothers THAT i was talking today is in their, twenties,
man and not having done the research or. Whatever SO, i,
MAN i appreciate the. APOLOGY i appreciate all of. That i'm,

(01:26:10):
not you, know not That i'm looking forward to, anything
but knowing that now in your, wisdom you're seeing, it
and you're seeing it for what it was that a
brother was trying to share information with, you and the
same information THAT i was sharing to you back.

Speaker 4 (01:26:21):
Then now you on it, now and you on. It
you know What i'm, saying to the point where you.

Speaker 5 (01:26:24):
Call me and, man excited about, stuff And i'm, like, yeah,
brother right, Ho i'm. Glad i'm glad you moving because
that's what it, is, man is to be able to
get information and keep moving in it and not get.
Stuck but at the same time knowing that how much
how much could we have done with that, time during
that period of time had we got on board.

Speaker 4 (01:26:46):
With the info that we was talking. About and for,
me it's, like, Okay i'm not not once, Again i'm
a child of the most.

Speaker 5 (01:26:54):
Time, MAN i ain't trying to be no none of.
No i'll try me as me and that's ALL i
can is.

Speaker 4 (01:27:00):
Me So i'm. NOT i love researching AND i love
to be able.

Speaker 5 (01:27:04):
To shed that information BECAUSE i know it's gonna be
needed and necessary in the next couple of. Days so
that when our people look and, say how the hell
did we get where we're, at somebody gonna be able
to tell. Them, yo let me show y'all. This, okay
it started back. Here, okay we're going on the gold
standard just so y'all. Know, okay so that nineteen seventy
one When nixon took us off the gold standard is coming,

(01:27:26):
back all. Right so all this stuff you see With
trump And Elon musk and, man it's the wild. Part
everybody he picked on his staff is. Billionaires all. Right
one THING i had to give them credit.

Speaker 4 (01:27:41):
For they know how to move these, things all. Right
now this other THING i gotta tell you on the
flip side of, that.

Speaker 5 (01:27:48):
If you're a billionaire In america, today you just stepped
on a bunch of.

Speaker 4 (01:27:51):
People, okay you didn't do it the right.

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
Way yeah you didn't.

Speaker 5 (01:27:55):
That now you can be feeling. Flopping, Now i'm a,
humanitary and it's. Money how billionaires get? Billionaires humanitarian?

Speaker 4 (01:28:02):
Awards come on in, here, Oh. Joey, yeah he did
a great.

Speaker 5 (01:28:06):
Job he gave a million, dollars but he just made
four billion off of poor people In asia Or.

Speaker 4 (01:28:10):
Africa you. Know so things are. Flipping things are, flipping
and it's flipping for the better because people who have
heretofore had minerals, underfoot they have not been able to
get him from under their.

Speaker 5 (01:28:21):
Feet and now it's a different. World it's a different
day In. America regardless to how bright we may make this,
thing we've been very bad to the, neighbors whether it
be here or broad and now not Like malcolm, said
chicken someon on the, roofs but we better get ready

(01:28:42):
for some rough times as far as, economics because the
dollar compared to other currencies is.

Speaker 4 (01:28:49):
Going to go to the opposite direction and we got
to be ready for.

Speaker 2 (01:28:52):
It the revolution to televised, now, WOW i. THINK i,
mean we talk about Our, tom But, kendrick that was
bigger Than. Drake if you paid attention to it was
way bigger Than.

Speaker 5 (01:29:00):
Drake and that's the part where you, know that's WHERE
i feel like the beefing part comes in so that
you won't see.

Speaker 1 (01:29:07):
That that's Exactly that's WHY i said that it was it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:10):
Was drake was a small part of if you look at,
it if you knew what he, was all the stuff
that he was talking about in that, Performance drake was
a very small part of.

Speaker 6 (01:29:17):
It you were able to get one more championship in ninety,
two and then you were way released and then you
sue THE nba in ninety.

Speaker 3 (01:29:25):
Six can you share what that was.

Speaker 1 (01:29:27):
About, yeah it.

Speaker 4 (01:29:28):
Was SO i get a.

Speaker 5 (01:29:29):
Call i've been Calling commissioner's office and at that, time
the the head security guy Was Horace. Bomber And horace
calls me back, LIKE i ain't did shit?

Speaker 4 (01:29:42):
Wrong what you calling?

Speaker 5 (01:29:42):
Me i'm calling to see what's going. ON i was
calling it as the. Commissioner why AM i being stole all?
That every TIME i can't get an, AGENT i can't
get a team to talk to. Me Text, winner who
had and worked in the league For damnar forty. Years
every team he, called don't, darting nobody call him. Back
and he, said this is the first Time craig and
my career THAT i didn't call teams on the player
behalf and they ain't even call me. Back so he

(01:30:05):
suggested to, Me, craig is time for you to start.
Coaching so at that point in, TIME i called the
league to ask, him, yo, man what's going? On And
horace calls me back And i'm, Like, yo what you
calling me? For, Well i'm trying to find out what's going.
On i'm, LIKE i just want to find out Why
i'm being, stonewalled and he was, like, well it ain't
nothing like.

Speaker 4 (01:30:22):
THAT i.

Speaker 5 (01:30:23):
WILL i, say, WELL i need to give me an,
attorney and he was, like, well you don't need to do,
that and then the phone clicked AND i was like.
Okay so at that point in, TIME i decided to
get an. Attorney, now the brother THAT i GETS i
get out Of, chicago name Was David. Odham didn't realize
at that time he was trying to do things with
the league and as far as represent.

Speaker 4 (01:30:43):
Players all, Right SO i never got A Dan court all.

Speaker 5 (01:30:47):
Right even THOUGH i was in under litigation FOR i
guess almost two years or, WHATEVER i never went to
court and it was finally dismissed because the statue of
limitations for racial discriminate racial discrimination claim is two years,
now in nineteen ninety, Two june nineteen ninety, two going

(01:31:09):
in the, championship, right we're in, Layups i'm an active.
Player soon as that season was, OVER i had to
file that suit that day or the clock started.

Speaker 4 (01:31:19):
Ticking you didn't, KNOW i didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:31:21):
Know you know What i'm.

Speaker 4 (01:31:22):
Saying so once, again and you know, what the response
to me on that one was just because you're ignorant to,
it don't make you immune to.

Speaker 1 (01:31:30):
It And i'm, like, Cool i'm.

Speaker 6 (01:31:32):
Good, nah, no, mm let's get back BEFORE i want
to obviously touch on you're giving so much gems on
the on the dark, side but you are a three times.
Champ talk to us about that three point contest and
why it was the fourth time three in a, row.

Speaker 5 (01:31:53):
Three in a, row and then the fourth TIME i didn't.
Win the fourth time the last TIME i got to,
GO i wasn't with a team and they let me.

Speaker 1 (01:31:59):
Participate he's a four time. Champ.

Speaker 6 (01:32:01):
Yeah so so with, that no one else has ever
done it IN nba, history and yet no one really
knows that, either.

Speaker 5 (01:32:10):
Right and that's you, KNOW i think part of it,
is you, know the ability to you, Know Jim brown
said to, me and love love him as.

Speaker 4 (01:32:18):
Well he told, me, say, man the.

Speaker 5 (01:32:21):
Professional sports teams control the. Media AND i was, like,
Okay then you finally see it when you get. Older
you see how certain certain teams have certain media people
that they aligned to to get their message out or
send out little debs or. Whatever and for, ME i
think that that's what it bore down to that THE
nba realized that WHAT i did at The White house or,

(01:32:41):
whatever it wasn't in conjunction with what they. Wanted but
at the same time it was one of the things
that you can't deny What i've done as far as
shooting of. Basketball you, know to this, DAY i don't
think anybody competed in more three point contest THAN i.
DID i lost probably the person, four you, know To,
larry and THEN i Think Dale ellis might have, won
and THEN i won my.

Speaker 4 (01:33:02):
Three but you, know it was one of those, things.

Speaker 5 (01:33:04):
Man for, me is just a competition of knowing that
this is something THAT i love to do shoot the,
ball but at the same time to be in a
competition of, it that's pretty. Cool and to be able
to put up some records and to be able to know,
that you, know at that point in, time at a
point in, HISTORY i could say THAT i was the
best shoot on the. Planet, well for, me it's three

(01:33:30):
parts of your. Shot, foundation form and follow. Through you
know What i'm, saying and to be able to know
how to rhythmically do, that to do it, off to,
dribble to do it, off to catch to what are you?
Looking one of the first THINGS i ask somebody is
what are you looking at when you?

Speaker 4 (01:33:46):
Shoot you know What i'm?

Speaker 5 (01:33:47):
Saying so for, ME i look at probably six inches
above the. Rim that's What i'm focused. On and if
it's off, glass it's six inches off the, glass six
inches above the rim off. Glass that every no ball
can go in that rim unless it's at least whether
you're duncan it or, not you got to have you
got to have at least that much. Clearance so my
thing is WHEN i hear people Say i'm looking at you,

(01:34:10):
know young folks Saying i'm looking at the back of the.
Rim you couldn't be looking at the back of the
rim because you're not twelve feet, tall so you're looking
under the. Rim so probably ninety percent of your shots
are gonna hit front rim because your eye is focused
and your ball is gonna go where your eye tells
it to. Go SO i don't care who you shooting.
With when you, look that's where your ball is gonna. Go,
now whether, enough you put enough energy or, whatever that's

(01:34:31):
what they all you're looking. At and that's the part
WHERE i tell people in as far as how you plan,
IS i was blessed to have. Text LIKE i, Said
text taught me to play with a three foot cushion around,
me and that at three FEET i don't care if
you should kill. O'Neil IF i go into my. Jay
by the time you react to, that it's gonna be
too fucking.

Speaker 4 (01:34:47):
Late excuse My. French you know What i'm. Saying it's
gonna be gone and you're gonna might.

Speaker 5 (01:34:50):
Might clap my hand or. Whatever but by that point
my ball is already. Gone so in teaching, IT i teach,
that you, know, foundation, form follow. THROUGH i can act
say that When i'm. Shooting so WHEN i go into
MY i like to shoot out of a two to
foot jump stop you feel, Me So i'm hopping into
my shot AS i go into.

Speaker 1 (01:35:08):
It that's.

Speaker 5 (01:35:08):
Foundation i'm gonna say. That AS i go, Up i'm into,
form and WHEN i, Finish i'm in to follow. Through
and WHEN i say follow, through the ball that's coming
through the net and it's. Nothing and when you teach
children that get gases them because they swearing up and
down that when they watch you, shoot that this is
some type of magic.

Speaker 1 (01:35:23):
Trick.

Speaker 4 (01:35:24):
No.

Speaker 5 (01:35:24):
No and the way THAT i found the way THAT
i teach that is that WHEN i was in a
three point, competition one ball THAT i shot with a,
moneyball it went through and WHEN i was watching the slow.
Motion it had the same amount of space all the
way around the. Rim so the ball was right in
the center of the target and it was the same
amount of space around. It SO i rewound that back

(01:35:46):
to see WHAT i did on that particular.

Speaker 4 (01:35:48):
Shot and WHAT i. DID i brought it out the,
RACK i went into my HOT i went into my,
farm AND i went into my follow through AND i
started saying it at that point and from you, know
LIKE i, said for, me it's being able to like
people will laugh when we will be watching Take WHEN
i was with the, Bulls oh look at how over
there He jones.

Speaker 5 (01:36:06):
And RIGHT mj would have a ball on the other
side of the, court And i'm in this corner over
here And i'm in my triple threat. Position go if,
waiting if you get, it, man, man you know What i'm, saying.
Man and so it's a picture with me and M.
J and it's looking like he's talking in my ear
and people, like, man what was he saying to? You,
no this is WHAT i was saying to. Him give

(01:36:28):
me the, ball, man you real.

Speaker 4 (01:36:30):
Me and that's because if you throw it over, here
if you throw it over, here it's gonna be good
eighty five to ninety percent of the time with our
question That i'm not And i'm not gonna miss open
that was that that ain't. Happened That, no now somebody
running at, me maybe me coming off my tap too

(01:36:51):
early and not getting got not getting this. Cocked and
that's one of the things THAT i want you to
tell your children, is, man this is so.

Speaker 3 (01:36:59):
CRITICAL i want you to teach.

Speaker 5 (01:37:00):
Them, yeah this is critical right, here that this happens so,
much all, Right AND i call that rolling into your.
Shot so we'll have people start here and you'll see
them and when they finally get to the, top this.
Happened AND i tell, them once you at the, top
bring that. Down bring that. Down and now you're into
your triple. Threat so if you watch, cold get that, THING,

(01:37:20):
mj get that thing they on you feel. Me and
now when you, turn it's already. There it's already. There
you're already, loaded you know What i'm. Saying so being
able to make sure that you work on that all the.
Time you work on that all the, time you, know
and that this here and once, again how DO i

(01:37:41):
make sure THAT i minimize the of the amount of
error that can.

Speaker 4 (01:37:46):
Occur all.

Speaker 5 (01:37:47):
Right ONCE i take this, out this can't. Happen so
that's not gonna. Be that's not gonna be in my. Shot,
LIKEWISE i want to make sure that when my ball,
starts my ball never drops.

Speaker 4 (01:37:58):
Below my core. Ever.

Speaker 5 (01:38:00):
Ever i'm never bringing my ball down and take it. Up, never, never,
never because when I'm i'm always gonna make sure that
my core is beneath my.

Speaker 4 (01:38:11):
Ball my core is holding my, ball not my ball
holding my.

Speaker 5 (01:38:14):
Core i'm underneath. It i'm underneath that thing every. Time
so now this is a. Platform my core sets the
platform for my, elbow and then we up and the
way we're up and the way so on. Catch I'm
i'm creating my rhythm off that, pass all. Right that
rhythm off the pass is just like me off my.

Speaker 4 (01:38:35):
Dribble SO i go off my drill into my hot
and by the time my feet come, down my wrist
is cocked And i'm gone where a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:38:44):
Of people come down or people going to a one count.
Stride stop you feel me If i'm playing against a
person that has a one count, stride stop going left
to right to. Shoot ONCE i can gauge That i'm
not letting you get that right for full all, right
we played Against Andrew, tony who's one of the greatest
scores for The philadelphia seventy six. Ers we're playing them

(01:39:07):
in the playoffs In, milwaukee and once, again you, Know
nellie's stickler for. Tape so we watching tape and we
watched him give The lakers thirty and it won't won't
too wo.

Speaker 4 (01:39:19):
Man we were, like, oh that's all we gotta. Do,
Man we ain't doing nothing but riding that right.

Speaker 5 (01:39:23):
Side every time he got ready to come to a,
stop no jump on that right, arm and he oh.
No because as, players we know what is our comfort.
Zone you feel, me and If i'm going into a
one count stride stop in the first quarter in the fourth,
quarter it's not going to be nearly as strong with
Us josslyn around and, Shit.

Speaker 6 (01:39:42):
So you're some one of the things the two foot
is for the jump shooter is.

Speaker 1 (01:39:45):
Better, yeah and.

Speaker 4 (01:39:46):
It's another reason for it that IF i catch this thing.

Speaker 3 (01:39:49):
Off teach one not to cut you.

Speaker 6 (01:39:50):
OFF a lot of people teach the one too is too.

Speaker 4 (01:39:54):
Slow checked this, Out James. Brown we on the one
with the hop you know you're on one. Two so
how is that.

Speaker 5 (01:40:03):
Faster so WHEN i got with The clippers as a,
rookie we're doing the turnout. Drill, Right i'm coming off
this thing and my ball going to the rack so
quick they can't figure it. Out everybody else is coming out.
There one, Two i'm coming around there as that ball is.
Coming i'm turning my end the. Shoulder let it. Go
so it ain't, no it ain't no me turning WHEN
i get the. Ball i'm already. Turning you feel. Me

(01:40:26):
and that's the difference That i'm. Saying, okay, now IF
i catch this ball and that camera is coming at
me And i'm catching a one kind of stride, Stop
i'm locked with my pivot foot. Man and the way
these kids got these, TAPS i can tap and act
Like i'm going into my, Hop i'm stilling in.

Speaker 4 (01:40:44):
IT i ain't stilling. Ready NOW i got my three
feet and let it.

Speaker 5 (01:40:47):
Ride AND i tell, people you look at Step steph's
not shooting that thing from forty feet off of one.

Speaker 4 (01:40:51):
Leg he's shooting that thing off a two foot.

Speaker 5 (01:40:54):
Jump stop is just happening so, quick and he's launching
knowing that my follow three from forty is going.

Speaker 4 (01:41:02):
To be down. Here not up.

Speaker 5 (01:41:05):
Here so when he's shooting that thing and he finished in,
time you're with. It And i'm telling, Kids i'm not
leaving my. Shot i'm staying with it TILL i see
the ball go through the. Net if my ball is
bouncing around the, Rim i'm bouncing with.

Speaker 4 (01:41:20):
It i'm bouncing with. It i'm bouncing with it till it,
fall and Then i'm done with.

Speaker 5 (01:41:24):
It never, never, never my eyes on that six inch.
Point so WHEN i catch that thing And i'm ninety
four feet away in full core, pressure my defense in
front of, Me i'm still looking at that six inch.

Speaker 4 (01:41:35):
POINT i can see. You you feel. Me, now when
you get up in, ME i gotta.

Speaker 5 (01:41:39):
TURN i might look at you for a, second But
i'm back at my six inch point because that's WHERE
i want this thing to finally.

Speaker 4 (01:41:43):
Go you feel. Me and the MORE i keep my
head and eyes, up the MORE i can see.

Speaker 1 (01:41:47):
It.

Speaker 5 (01:41:47):
Early it's like going into a gun shot into a gunfight.
Blindfolded so many kids come off of that jack do all,
this and now you're raising.

Speaker 4 (01:41:55):
Up now you're trying to find your. Target all, RIGHT
i find my.

Speaker 5 (01:41:58):
TARGET i find my, target and then like in the,
league we, think, create.

Speaker 4 (01:42:02):
Eliminade ONCE i create my, SPACE i eliminate. Defender you feel,
me create my three, feet eliminate, them create three, feet eliminated.
Them catch off Catch if they're, there it's too. Late
you know What i'm.

Speaker 5 (01:42:12):
Saying and that's that's the part where it's all about
putting in the practice and knowing, that trusting in the
process of what you're. Doing, so like you, said how my,
sons my oldest boy all time three point shooter At
Long Beach state.

Speaker 4 (01:42:28):
When he was in high. School they're trying to tell
him to shoot. Differently he. Came he's been doing this
since he came out the roomb, Dude so they do
you feel? Me don't try to change.

Speaker 5 (01:42:37):
It and the thing about it, IS i guarantee you
if get them to look at them sites that we're talking,
about all, right so, many so many children are still
looking at rim or they Looking i'm looking at the
hangar that, no no look at because ONCE i in the,
RAY i found out THAT i taught. Myself that was
WHEN i was growing up on the school. Ground the

(01:43:00):
light would go down from the sun AND i could
only shoot on this end where AND i was seeing
nothing but the line because it wasn't on. Net SO
i was just trying to put my ball over that,
line over that, line over that, line over that, line.

Speaker 4 (01:43:12):
And not come. Out that line is six inches above your.

Speaker 5 (01:43:14):
Target and now it's all about training your eye where
you're not looking at no. Rim i'm not looking at
the rim no. More i'm looking at that point in.
Space and if that ball goes on that, point that
it's going. In and we know that two balls can
fit in the basket at one, time so why SHOULD
i miss?

Speaker 1 (01:43:29):
One m.

Speaker 2 (01:43:30):
Hmm were you in that three point contest when Lad bird,
said h how y'all?

Speaker 1 (01:43:34):
Doing but who coming in? Second?

Speaker 4 (01:43:36):
This this that's the very first. One that's the, one
that's the first one they ever.

Speaker 1 (01:43:42):
Had, okay, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:43:44):
So you know how they do THE. Nba you come
to take the pictures and all. That you're getting ready
to take the, pictures, right so everybody, Waiting No larry to.

Speaker 1 (01:43:50):
Come in right.

Speaker 4 (01:43:52):
Sitting, there sitting, there bust the dophin walk.

Speaker 5 (01:43:57):
Around you might do a little. Something, yeah, naw you
ain't gonna. Know you shot yourself out of warm. Ups
talking about Leon, wood he, said you shot yourself. Out,
yeah who comes a, second let's take the picture.

Speaker 4 (01:44:18):
And then take off his sweat.

Speaker 1 (01:44:19):
Jacket, yeah he did not take his jacket.

Speaker 4 (01:44:22):
Off he takes jacket. Off BUT i tell, people where'd you?

Speaker 3 (01:44:25):
PLACE i came?

Speaker 4 (01:44:26):
In he beat? Me he beat me that, there he beat.
Me actually the first, year.

Speaker 5 (01:44:34):
The very first, ROUND i set a. RECORD i made
twenty five points in that very first. Round, ever then
we went to the second round and me And Dale ellis,
tie so we had to have a.

Speaker 4 (01:44:44):
Shootout that shootout got my. Legs and THEN i went
to the finals And bertie got.

Speaker 5 (01:44:48):
Me but, yeah he's bird, talking AND i love it
Because bertie talked and he backed, up you know What i'm.
Saying but at the same, time it was always a
thing where a jump shooter would never, win AND i was, like, nah,
Man i'm gona in.

Speaker 1 (01:45:00):
It at some.

Speaker 5 (01:45:00):
Point it's just LIKE i, said trust the process and
stay with. It so every YEAR i THINK i might've
been in the eight.

Speaker 4 (01:45:06):
Times you, know m.

Speaker 3 (01:45:09):
Favorite part about playing With mike.

Speaker 5 (01:45:13):
Knowing that every time you walk into arena it's gonna be,
packed you know What i'm, Saying and it ain't no.
Better y'all, know y'all, know and like and knowing that
it was like with being being with the beatles of.
Somebody man that every every place you, go we would
drop him j off around the corner before we get to. Hotels,
man he'd get in the white vand and come through
the different hotel and we come bus pull up in

(01:45:35):
front of the.

Speaker 4 (01:45:35):
Hotel three hundred people out there waiting for him to
get off the.

Speaker 3 (01:45:38):
Bus ain't man, here.

Speaker 4 (01:45:40):
Y'all standing there waiting in, here, man you.

Speaker 5 (01:45:42):
Know SO i would they would laugh BECAUSE i would
call him the, president you know What i'm. Saying BECAUSE
i was, like, dude we were be in snowstorms flying
we never we, never we never went around, ever.

Speaker 4 (01:45:57):
And it's like we ain't gonna fly.

Speaker 5 (01:45:59):
Around we got a national treasure on board the getting
us out.

Speaker 6 (01:46:03):
There you feel, me please? Please what was he? LIKE
i mean we saw a side on on the last.
Dance what was?

Speaker 1 (01:46:12):
It what was he? Like day to?

Speaker 4 (01:46:13):
Day he mj was, different different cat. Man you Know
and do you you've played? Around?

Speaker 1 (01:46:23):
Yeah, yeah he different.

Speaker 4 (01:46:24):
Dude some day some days he be m, Jake he
laugh and go. Lucky then there might be some business
shit on his. Head you know What i'm. Saying he
come in.

Speaker 5 (01:46:32):
Different but the one thing when he strapped him, up
he was coming to get, down you know What i'm.

Speaker 4 (01:46:37):
Saying AND i.

Speaker 5 (01:46:38):
Love that because that's the competition that we look, for
is every day making each other. Better SO i told, people,
yeah y'all see HIM j getting, Down that's Because i'm
mak him better every, day you know What i'm.

Speaker 4 (01:46:48):
Saying so it's one.

Speaker 5 (01:46:49):
Of those things that to and and to see how you,
know you coming to the league and you'd be, like you,
know getting your feet wet or, whatever and you see
how some people come into or with a certain and
they have the green light to do it. Too so you,
know you HEAR mj tail Phil, man you know What i'm,
saying where other people are, like oh.

Speaker 4 (01:47:08):
Man but it's one of.

Speaker 5 (01:47:10):
Them things where it's a certain level ground that he
has compared to other, players and you know What i'm,
saying and that it was a hierarchy to, it and
he understood, that he understood what he brought to the,
table what he brought to the, team what he brought
to the, organization and what could what he could do with.
That you know how much how many freebies he got from?

Speaker 4 (01:47:28):
That you know What i'm, saying driving free ferraris getting
houses built for, you all that type of, Stuff so
it's not you, know it was one of those things
that he could handle, it and he handled, IT i
guess as best as anybody, could because nobody ever been.
There you know What i'm, saying.

Speaker 3 (01:47:42):
A favorite part about coaching code.

Speaker 5 (01:47:46):
Just to see how like you were, saying how in your,
case how he saw how to help you get off
when you didn't have it in your hand.

Speaker 4 (01:47:56):
Right and he told, me, say, man HOW i checked this.

Speaker 5 (01:48:00):
Out IF i can get everybody to play at their,
greatest Not kobe, great but their, own ain't nobody gonna beat?
Us and to, me that was something THAT i never
would SEE. Mj do you feel me if you got
better with? THEM, j you got, Better it wasn't never
gonna be like man, brother Where cob would give you
kudos if you getting better THAT i. Didn't you, KNOW

(01:48:24):
i didn't see. THAT i didn't feel that with, HIM.
J i was around, them And i've seen how many
players went the other direction because of how you demoralized
them with this, bravado you know What i'm.

Speaker 4 (01:48:34):
Saying where it was not.

Speaker 5 (01:48:35):
Unnecessary you didn't have to do that to, that, brother
because it's a. Dirt and that's the thing is that
it's a dirt certain and different mentality and personality that
we deal with. Too that some players are hardcore and
can deal with, it but other players going to.

Speaker 4 (01:48:48):
Back up and you, know subside to.

Speaker 1 (01:48:51):
It quick.

Speaker 3 (01:48:52):
Hitters first team to come to.

Speaker 6 (01:48:54):
Mind let us, know rank your top Five chicago hoopers?

Speaker 4 (01:48:58):
Ever oh got top five hoopers In? Chicago?

Speaker 5 (01:49:04):
Ever Billy harris who you probably you. Know billy played
At Northern. Illinois he was a great. SHOOTER i had
to Put Ben wilson in.

Speaker 4 (01:49:17):
There And.

Speaker 5 (01:49:22):
Mitchell anderson played in the league For. Utah he averaged
forty four game in my senior year in high. School
isaiah and probably mm.

Speaker 4 (01:49:37):
Hmmm Quinn Buckner Wann. Buckner Quinn quinn might be number.
One you. Know he was the number one high school
football and basketball.

Speaker 3 (01:49:52):
Player he played both.

Speaker 4 (01:49:55):
Quarterback IN.

Speaker 1 (01:49:56):
Qb he was at WHEN i was playing for the.

Speaker 4 (01:49:58):
Place, yeah, man he Was indiana. Game he played football
and Basketball. Indiana Tobobbi knight told me you had to.

Speaker 1 (01:50:04):
Quit. Yep he was like, that telling you man that.

Speaker 5 (01:50:08):
Man they high school, team Thorn Ridge High. School They
quinn went to they lost one game in two. Years,
okay they were their average scoring margin.

Speaker 4 (01:50:16):
Thirty points a.

Speaker 3 (01:50:17):
Game n smacking.

Speaker 5 (01:50:19):
People And i'm talking About i'm talking about where the
high school, Team Bloom High. SCHOOL i sat there at
half court and watched them play against Thorn. Ridge they
got the ball across half court four times in one.
Half they're gonna press, you, Man and it wasn't even,
ball Wasn't eve getting across half.

Speaker 4 (01:50:34):
Court, man And quinn was in the middle PLAYING Qb.

Speaker 1 (01:50:39):
Crazy five dinner Against Dead.

Speaker 4 (01:50:41):
Alive ah uh, yeah sure the Christ. One uh Probably Muhammed.

Speaker 8 (01:50:56):
Mansimosa with Your Black man Ever Marcus, Garvey Marcus, garvey
my guy In.

Speaker 1 (01:51:16):
Noble.

Speaker 3 (01:51:19):
My one album you can play with no?

Speaker 4 (01:51:22):
Skips how does In July Stevie Steve.

Speaker 5 (01:51:28):
WONDER i used to play that in, college, Man AND
i wouldn't miss a jump of the whole, album with the.

Speaker 1 (01:51:34):
Whole the whole.

Speaker 9 (01:51:35):
ALBUM i wished the jumper the whole heard album one,
selection let the whole thing miss.

Speaker 4 (01:51:47):
ONE i ain't miss no. Jumpers i'm telling.

Speaker 5 (01:51:49):
YOU i would go in The Long Beach State gym
by myself at night SO i would see you like
with me the brothers always try to get me go to, parties,
Right SO i dip in the, party act LIKE i
got a, drink and soon as they turn it, Back i'm.

Speaker 4 (01:52:00):
Gone right they coming from the, Party i'm coming back. From,
Man why you ain't tell? US i didn't come here
with you to tell, You so it's that for you
to do, too you know What i'm.

Speaker 5 (01:52:15):
Saying so that would, MAN i was going there and
y'all remember the y'all probably too, young remember the eight
track players with the.

Speaker 4 (01:52:24):
Plunger that was me and my track. Player no, missus,
Man i'm telling, YOU i wish and that and that
would be My that would be my.

Speaker 5 (01:52:36):
Thing was how how many how long in the SONG
i could go without?

Speaker 4 (01:52:41):
Missing how many SONGS i could? Go you feel me
THAT i could.

Speaker 5 (01:52:45):
DO i could do three four songs that are three
four minutes long without.

Speaker 3 (01:52:49):
Missing absolutely the. Mindset you know What i'm, saying.

Speaker 4 (01:52:58):
Don't count you Know i'll go.

Speaker 5 (01:52:59):
BY i go about how wet my shirt, was THAT
i couldn't leave until a great shirt was wet all
the way.

Speaker 1 (01:53:04):
Down to the. Bottom you feel.

Speaker 5 (01:53:06):
Me my high school that's why my high school, GYM
i would my junior, YEAR i found out THAT i
could tape the door shut in the gym right and
it was a hollow point under the.

Speaker 4 (01:53:19):
DOOR i could bring a hanger and just pull the door.

Speaker 5 (01:53:21):
Open SO i did this for like a month and
a half and then the janitor came around about nine
thirty one, night see me in, there, like, boy how
you getting?

Speaker 4 (01:53:29):
Here i'm not telling. You he's, like, no you gotta tell.
Me if you tell, me then you could just come
to all, Right i'm gonna tell. You AND i showed.

Speaker 5 (01:53:36):
Him he's, like, boy just come to the boiler room
And i'll let you. In SO i would go every
night and, shoot you, know by. Myself and the thing
THAT i did was that you know and that you
know Boy Willie burton will ye he does the thing
on mental. Illness so we was At All star weekend
last year and he was, saying how for us to

(01:53:56):
pursue what we, do we have to be mentally ill.

Speaker 4 (01:54:00):
Because it ain't no. Outcome you know What i'm.

Speaker 5 (01:54:02):
Saying you doing this, training, training, training and it ain't
necessarily ain't nothing on the other end of. That so
you have to have some type Of so for, me,
MAN i would go in to gym WHEN i was
in high school AND i would throw the ball up
at half court AND i would play a whole game by.
Myself you feel me going up and. Down ONCE i laid,
UP i slide back on, defense slide back on, defense

(01:54:23):
sprint led, up go to the free throw, line shoot.

Speaker 4 (01:54:25):
Too IF i, MISSED i got a. Suicide you know
What i'm.

Speaker 5 (01:54:28):
Saying so just being able to make it WHERE i
could be in total concentration for two and a half
hours if need, be all, Right Steve fisher taught me
how to do it for three and a half. Hours
and that shit came in hand you WHEN i got
with Down. Nelson you show me that first training, camp
because it was it was that, thick, real dear guilty pleasure.

Speaker 4 (01:54:51):
Ganja and butter pecan ice.

Speaker 3 (01:54:53):
Cream you smoked through.

Speaker 6 (01:54:58):
COLLEGE i READ i heard youtarted high school when you
start smoking high, school, Okay and it was just something
that was always for.

Speaker 4 (01:55:03):
You and it was and it was, crazy you know high.
School How LIKE i, said In, chicago we see that
brown box over, There that's what we was looking, like
straight up man, man, ugly. Ugly SO i got The
Long Beach state and sitting in the.

Speaker 5 (01:55:21):
Dorms sitting in the dorms in the big centers From Ridondo,
Beach kevin.

Speaker 1 (01:55:25):
Tie big white, Boy big white.

Speaker 5 (01:55:27):
Boy So kevin sitting there and he, says, uh this
is about the fourth or fifth. Day we all in
the door and he's, like do any of you guys?

Speaker 4 (01:55:33):
SMOKE i was, like, brother where you? Been you know
What i'm? Saying and he pulls out And i'm like
that coming From, chicago we've seen that. Green that's. Homegrown,
man what is his? Homegrown he's, like what you're talking?

Speaker 3 (01:55:48):
About?

Speaker 4 (01:55:49):
Homegrown this is this is the kind the KIND i was,
like all, right, brother, Exactly, YEAH i got that.

Speaker 1 (01:56:00):
Kind BUT i got that kind smoking all around the.

Speaker 6 (01:56:03):
TIME i saw the on your documentary about how he
said that the coach knew he was, High like you
went splayed and it didn't fuck with you at, all
but it did something to, him.

Speaker 4 (01:56:13):
Y'all man in his eyes will be beat, red right.

Speaker 5 (01:56:16):
Man but the funniest part we were in we were
Playing marquette and the whole team he.

Speaker 4 (01:56:22):
Was in in the.

Speaker 5 (01:56:23):
Room they got the mattress, off shooting, dice smoking, weed all, that.
Right so we go to the game and we're laying
an egg right text.

Speaker 4 (01:56:32):
Cost time out and he looked. Around he's, like all
of you, guys they're telling me my whole team is
full a part of his, man my heart. Sunk i'm,
like oh, Man i'm getting ready to get kicked out of,
school you. Know but he was like he Found he's,
like let me tell. YOU i know what it does to.
You it puts you in a state of. Euphoria and

(01:56:53):
you guys are walking around it think you're doing. Something
you're doing jack. Shit all, right all, right, bro that's.

Speaker 6 (01:57:02):
Crazy anything you want to get, out say anything you're working.

Speaker 4 (01:57:06):
On, well LIKE i, said, man just, UH i appreciate this, opportunity.

Speaker 5 (01:57:11):
Brothers and LIKE i, said, man just, uh we're doing
some some of the stuff that we're looking at doing
is putting together uh training. Camp you, know a place
that we can call home man and actually do it
on a level where it can be you, know be
a mentorship place as well as a student athletics.

Speaker 1 (01:57:28):
Place working away we can be. Helpful we are. Now, yeah,
man we appreciate your.

Speaker 3 (01:57:37):
Time.

Speaker 6 (01:57:37):
Uh it's always a pleasure getting to sit down and
talk to. You AND i may we wish you nothing.

Speaker 4 (01:57:41):
But brother it's already.

Speaker 1 (01:57:43):
Appreciate, yeah don't do.

Speaker 4 (01:57:45):
That i'm looking at, you, BOY i don't do.

Speaker 1 (01:57:47):
That we know that's his. Phone we keep going. Out
it's in your possession of.

Speaker 2 (01:57:51):
Yours twice twice at.

Speaker 4 (01:57:59):
It then love me back, then should love me back.

Speaker 2 (01:58:03):
Then but that's the end of the episode with our,
brother The Great Craig hodges and thanks for being.

Speaker 1 (01:58:09):
Here. Man you can't catch this episode on go ahead man.

Speaker 3 (01:58:12):
All the spokes production YouTube in The Draft Kings.

Speaker 1 (01:58:14):
Network, NOW i don't know that, part BUT i know this.
Part we'll see y'all next. Time. Sorry mhm.

Speaker 3 (01:58:27):
Mm hmmmm.

Speaker 2 (01:58:37):
Mm.

Speaker 1 (01:58:38):
Hmmm

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Stephen Jackson

Matt Barnes

Popular Podcasts

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Craig Hodges: From Michael Jordan's Teammate to Blackballed From The NBA, 2x Champion Speaks out