Darius Miles gets brutally honest about his journey from East St. Louis phenom to NBA lottery pick, opening up about the pressure of being drafted by the Clippers and signing with Jordan Brand at just 18 years old. He doesn't hold back when addressing his infamous LeBron comments, what it was really like playing for Donald Sterling, and the mental health struggles that hit him after retirement. He also reflects on starring in The Perfect Score with Scarlett Johansson and how he's learned to navigate life after basketball.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
M m.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Mm hmmmm.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Today we want to welcome man some When I was
in college, just he was younger than me, but he
came to LA and just kind of took the scene over.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
You know, I was admiring from Afar where you and
Q kind of started in that early two thousands in
the LA scene.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Talk to us about your start.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Eat.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Saint Louis's has has created some very talented basketball players,
but you were one of the early ones. Talk to
us about your upbringing, what that looked like, East Saint
Louis born.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I came up in a city whereas eighty nine blocks
like three different ways. We uh, East St. Louis is Illois.
A lot of people don't know Saint Louis is Missouri,
so we'll hold another state. But I rapped both sides
because I went all around hooping with everybody. But when
I came up, one of the motivating things for me,
(01:14):
especially in basketball, my mom made me play basketball because
I was always big. But she I thought she was
taking away my freedom, Like, you know, after school, I'm
playing with my friends and all that stuff. And then
what was she telling me to go to basketball practice?
Like after basketball practice the street lights on I can
out side you know what I'm saying, the days over.
(01:35):
So that was like a struggle at first, but then
I started playing, and then she drove school buses. So
it's this famous coach in East Saint Louis named Benny Lewis.
He was the high school coach. He was the first
black coach to win a state title in Illinois. He
was the first coach to win three state titles in
the row in Illinois. My mom always drove the bus,
(01:56):
the field trip bus for their games. So I used to,
you know, ride on the bus, be right there sitting
next to the coach when I was younger, and I
used to go to them games back in the day
and I used to see them and I always wanted
to play for him. So as I got older and older,
when I finally got a chance to go to high school,
(02:18):
I went to Lincoln Senior High School went to play
with him. They closed down our school after my sophomore year.
When I'm from seventh through nights was junior high and ten.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Through twelfth high grade was junior high.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, so I only played three years of high school.
So when I got to tenth grade, I went to
Lincoln after they closed that school down, and then I
went to our rival school because my coach decided to
coach the last couple of my years. And that's how
it all came about.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
When did you realize that, like shit, I might be
able to do this for a living.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Probably after my ninth grade year, because I was in
junior high. So ninth grade I didn't play against high
school guy. I au coach where I met Q. He
came from Chicago. He came down and he went to
all the high schools, and the high schools was telling
him like, yeah, it's this kid in junior high. He
gonna probably be the best player from around here. But
(03:15):
I was playing program though, like I won. I wasn't
even playing with kids my age for real. I was
playing programs. So when he came down, you know, got
from Chicago, slick talking, I'm looking at him like, man,
I ain't messing with you, you know what I'm saying.
And your high school was ten eleven twelve. Huh your
high school eleven tw Yeah, So when he came to
(03:37):
my junior high, he was like he was talking slick.
I was like, yeah, I ain't really mess with you.
He gave me his number and stuff, so I did'n't
give it to my mom because I was playing with
like college and pros like Anthony Bonner and Larry Hughes
and them during the summer and stuff like that. So
when I'm looking at it, I'm just thinking he's slick talking.
But my teacher went to school with my mom and
she called my mom and told him about him. So
(04:00):
she came to me and she was like, Yeah, You're
gonna go and play in his spotlight. And I was
like for what. Then my mom had she had a
heart attack. So as she had a heart attack, she
had the surgery, she woke up out the surge, she
would like, go to the spotlight. Made my cousin take
me to the spike. Like That's why I met Q
and them and the restless history. I started playing with him,
(04:22):
started playing with the they just switched over from Adidas
to Nike. And after I played with him, played my
first tournament, they was like, I'm ranked number three in
the nation as a sophomore.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
What was your first impression to Q? Because Q was
a monster from early on.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
It really wasn't just Q. It was like their whole
team because they was like one of the like that
year that summer, they only lost one game the whole summer,
Like they played like ten tournaments, peace Jam, all them
Big Time Tournament, they lost one game, Like it really
won't him. It was more of the team because three
or four of them guys that played on the AAU team.
(04:58):
They was on his high school team.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
He went to what Whitney Young?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
He went to Whitney Young. That's why I almost went
to but I didn't want to go all the way
to Chicago to play with him. But yeah, it was
more of his team. But Q stuck out more to
me because he was the one that was the McDonald
All American. He was the one that was going through
the phase that I was gonna probably have to go
to my senior year. So I was really watching him
(05:24):
real close and seeing.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Like is he two years older than you?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, he was about to be a senior when I.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Was about to be a sophomore.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Okay, So I was watching him a lot, so watching
his journey from when he decided to go to the pall,
when he decided when he uh, when he made All State,
when he was running up to miss the basketball. They
won state that year, my sophomore year and watched them
go to McDonald's, So you know, that was just like
the blueprint. I started really getting into what was going
(05:54):
on because all I knew was like pro am, Like
that was the level I was playing, and I was
playing since I was in seventh grade, so I was
I was already playing with adults and stuff high school.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
As you kind of start progressing through high school, and
like you said, you jump on the scene as a sophomore,
your number three in your class. As you continue to
go through your junior senior year, what.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Was it college?
Speaker 3 (06:19):
All?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Was college ever coming the picture? Or you wanted to
make that jump? And if you wanted to make that jump,
what was the reason why? No, I ain't think about
making a joint. I committed early. I committed before my
senior year. I committed in November the Saint John's. I
committed with Mike Jarvis. I Odmar Cook for real. I
always wanted to play with a dope point guard that
(06:41):
was like a fast person type point guard. So I
was falling Oldmar Cook.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
He wanted to go to North Carolina, but North Carolina
chose Adam Boom over him, and when they did that,
he decided to go to Saint John's. I went on
the visit. That was the first time I met jay Z.
On the visit, I went to Midnight Madness. You know
what I'm saying. She was hosting it, so jay Z
(07:06):
was Yeah, jay Z was hosting it. So that's the
first time I met jay and he committed. So I
committed early, saying he wish. I felt it was a
good commitment because he led the nation and assistance freshman year.
So yeah, I went with Mike Jarvis. My dream school
was was Georgetown, but John Thompson he retired right before
(07:27):
I came out.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
So what made you decide to d commit and put
your name in the draft.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Mike Jarvis and my AAU coach came to me and
was like saying that you top five, top ten because
I told him they they was mentioning it to me.
But you know, I'm from the hood. I don't believe
in until I actually see it, you know what I'm saying.
So when they was telling me this, I told him,
I was like, yeah, the only way I jumped if
I go lottery, which lottery was top twelve because I
(07:55):
just seen Rashard Lewis slip in the draft and how
he and his family was looking. I was like, yeah,
I ain't even gonna play with that. So when they
was telling me and Mike Jo was you know, he
could have been selfish or not told me nothing. He
was keeping it real with me, like, yeah, they talking
about you, top five, top ten. Then I went on
(08:17):
like two workouts and they was like, yeah, you top
top three, top five, Time to go. Yeah, it was out.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
I've been to East Saint Louis with you, and I
know how hard it is come from there.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I've seen it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
It ain't too much positive stuff going on from there.
So I could mean you for you know, continuing to
go through the ups and downs. I know what you
went through going up to come out. But what made
you choose to come out of high school? Just just
the grind, the grind of everything. Like me and my mom.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
My mom is the youngest child out of all my
grandmother kids, but I stayed in the house basically my
whole life with my grandmother and my granddad. I was
like the only kid, you know, cousin or whatever in
the family that grew up with my grandmama and granddadd
That's in the house. So I just seen the struggle
(09:04):
and you know, seeing what we was going through and
so forth on, and like once they kind of reassured
me that I can go lottery, that kind of confirm it.
It was like, that's like four million dollars that you
passing up on just to go to college. They kind
of just put in me, which I was very patient.
My mom was very stern. She was like, man, we
(09:26):
ain't taking nothing from nobody. You don't want to owe
nobody nothing. So I felt like I was earning everything
that I was getting and I was killing everything, Like
I killed the McDonald's game, I killed the USA game.
Like I was one kind of that hybrid from KG.
You know what I'm saying. KG was doing more of
(09:47):
the power forward thing, but I was the hybrid that
was dribbling and playing all the positions, guarding all the positions.
So I felt like how people was talking to me
like I was a unique player. And Mike even told
Mike even said like, yeah, if I was drafting somebody
number one, I draft him, which I was going to night.
I was going to Jordan Camp every summer like for
(10:09):
two weeks. Kind of getting that from him. You know
what I'm saying, So it was just like a no
brainer once they kind of laid it out for me.
I was being patient with it. I wasn't trying to like, yeah,
I'm going out of high school. I never mentioned, never said.
I just let everybody else say it, and it just
kind of came in for us.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
You ended up going number three, behind Keny Martin and
stroke My Swift. I think that was in two thousand draft.
That was actually my first year in the league because
we played the Rookie Allstar Game together. Yeah, coming into
that year, how did you feel? Did you think you
would go higher than three? Or was three right right
where you want to be?
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah? At the draft, they told me it was a
fifty to fifty chance that I can go number one
between me and Kenyan because Kenyan broke his leg, which
you know, I was going to Saint Louis you games
all the time, especially when they played Cincinnati. Cincinnati, they
was all in the USA Conference.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
He was a fucking monster too, Kenyan senior year, Like,
I think if he didn't get hurt, it wouldn't even
been a question he was gonna be number one.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
I let you know how good he was. They broke
his leg is still with No One.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
But also too he went. He was one of those
rare guys that went four years too, Like he was good,
but he went all to college all four Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
So his senior year. I watched him his whole senior year,
like he deserved to be number one, but because he
got hurt, they questioned, you know, whether he was gonna
be healthy enough or whether he was gonna come back
or be right. So it was a fifty to fifty
chance there. Then Vancouver was number two, and my mom
was like, nah, my son ain't going to no Vancouver.
(11:47):
So it wasn't no question. So Steve Francis just got
picked by Vancouver and he refused to go, so with
my mom saying that they didn't even play with it,
you know what I'm saying. And the Clippers. I never
worked out for the Clippers. I really wasn't planning. Nobody
was planning on going to the Clippers. I thought I
(12:07):
was gonna get picked by the Bulls. Me and Jerry
Cross didn't have a like too many good meetings, but
they still was like, yeah, we still ain't gonna pass
up on you. It was a thing about me wearing
braids that we kind of had a problem with me
and my mom. You know, my mom was a big
Bulls fan, you know, coming from Illinois, and she just
asked him, like, man, you let a guy were colored
(12:29):
this her, but you can't let my child wear braids.
She didn't want me to go there, but they said
they still was gonna pick me. So I thought I
was going to the Bulls where Fireser got picked up.
What I wanted to go to the Rockets though I
loved Rudy t I went down there to the Rocks.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
What's that culture?
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Shock? Though?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Coming from the neighborhood you grew up in and you
get thrown into la As what's seventeen years old, right?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
What was that like? It was like a whole nother world.
You know, la is like a like I wasn't used
to that much traffic and I wasn't used to that
many people being around. Moved how it moved around, it
was it was different. You know. That was the first
time being in l A, palm trees, all that stuff.
I realized l A is not as hot as you
(13:15):
know you see on TV. You know, it get cool
out there and in rain in southern California, yeah, realized
a lot of things, but they it was it was
cool because it wasn't like I was getting thrown in
the fire as a Laker, you know what I'm saying.
Because the Lakers ran in town. It was like earning it
(13:36):
and what kind of relaxed me a lot, Like Keon
Cory Young real young team was all with me, you
know what I'm saying, Like I knew all them guys,
like I remember going a playing against Corey Aau, running
through past Kon, like all us kind of knew each
other from the aa U circuit over the years. So
(13:57):
you know, it just made it the easiest transition for me.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I mean, you went to a very very very young
team and like you said, Lakers kind of ran the
LA side of it, but you guys had a young,
exciting team that although you guys didn't want a ton
of games, you got a style and flair was able
to kind of captivate the NBA world. So what is
that kind of going?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Like?
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Again, the team wasn't very good, but you guys were
kind of becoming stars within that. So what was that
transition like for you because you were still a teenager.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I think we I think we became stars because we
was more visible and people can touch us more.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Like we was.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Going, Yeah, I was going to the west Chester games
and Crenshaw games. We was going like we was all
in the mall all the time.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Fox Hill.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah, we was going to area event. We was on
different campuses.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
You know what I'm saying, y'all was working after work.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Yeah. We was like we had energy, like we was
moving around l A and we was like our cars
made us stand out, Like I had a escalate on them,
gold these on them gold ds. Honey spoke and they
was like, man, look at that country boy just riding
through this. So it was different when we came out
(15:10):
here that was shopping with Root. Huh. Yeah, we shocked
everybody shopping with Roo. Everybody shopping for Roo, messed with
Dave all them, you know what I'm saying. It was.
It was just different. We was more touchable, but you
know a lot of people be misconscrewing it. We was
the We was the youngest team ever. Like before we
(15:30):
got there, they won seventeen games out of eighty two.
Our first year we won thirty one. Our second year
we won like thirty nine forty. We was we was
one game out of the playoffs, so that, you know,
I know they'd be like, yeah, we got our ass kicked.
We really wasn't getting our ass kicked. Like it won
no cakewalk. We really weren't getting blown out by teams
(15:51):
and all that stuff. Like every year we beat the Lakers,
like we was really progressing, being the youngest team ever assembled,
you know what I'm saying. And all our guys are
so young, so I know they'd be like, yeah, they
was getting their ass kick. We really wasn't.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Y'all was in it.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
We was coming, you know what I'm saying. I feel
like the second year, only reason we didn't make the
playoffs because that was John Stockton and call them alone.
Really last year with Utah, that was that was the
team that we posed to beat. We had the last
two games against them in the regular season, and they
beat us in LA and in Utah. But I ain't
gonna say nothing about the riff. But we knew what
(16:27):
it was.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
You already know you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
We knew what it was. But we posed to being
in there and we would have played the Lakers the
first round. That's what everybody was talking about. We just
had to win one of them games, that's it. But
they wont both of them, and they wound up being
an AC play the Lakers.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
You don't really know no better because obviously it's your
first couple of years in the league. But the Clippers
weren't the Clippers that we are today as far as
ownership and management and the way shit.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Is supposed to be ran.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Y'all used to practice us south By Southwest with no
real locker room. You had to keep the doors open
so niggas didn't rob your cars out in the parking lot.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Like, yeah, we had to go to them and shower.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
You couldn't even shower, Like the shit was crazy. You
couldn't even shower after practice. But what was that like?
But although you don't know any better and you guys
are progressing, it's not necessarily the real NBA at that time.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, it really, it really kept us hongry. It was
just like we was hungry. Like it really kept us
in the mode we want to prove ourselves to the
NBA because we're going to Dallas and going to different
places and seeing what they got, and we were like, man,
we don't got that. We still were in the league.
Were playing against them, but this is what we want.
So it was just part of the grind. They had
(17:32):
a grind team because you know, like I said, the
year before we got there, that's when the stuff would
Keith Claus happen that I got a lot of guys
just they just revamped the team. They had da you
got jumps, Yeah, they had da. They had big mold tailor.
They had a bunch of guys that the only guy
they had left on that team was was Rick Strong.
(17:55):
You know what I'm saying. They kind of revamped the
whole squad. So and the bad look of that, they
kind of you know, they showed us that to show
us like we don't want y'all to do that. But
we was everywhere like enjoying us backyard barbecueing, like in Inglewood.
We were doing everything.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Was out there living and you got any Donald Sterling stories, not.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Really like you know, me and Q kind of felt
he was weird, so you know, we kind of kept
our distance. You know, the White Party, We'll walk in
there about fifteen minutes and soon as week shake everybody
hand and kiss the baby, we was out. Yeah, you
know what I'm saying. So we really didn't I think
one of the weirdest things that he always used to
(18:36):
do was just come in the locker room after we're
paying with stairs, like half naked and kind of give
you that that uncomfortable type feel or look, you know
what I'm saying, right, that's just you know what I'm saying.
That's probably the creepiest thing that he was doing. But
you know, me and Q kind of you know, we
(18:58):
were kids, you know, we we used to talk about him,
joke about him, kind of making fun of him, even
though he the man is running everything.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Around, get your man, get your spot.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
You know, make fun, you know, because Courya is the
guy Coorya is the guy that was you know, he
looked like a corporate like you could draw him. So
he was the one that he really was looking at
He still looked like yeah, so he ain't never really
met I was sticking bones. He really wasn't looking at
me like that.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
He became a part of the Jordan brand. Give us
your your introduction to MJ and how that Jordan brand
deal came about.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
So the summer, like I would telling you, I haven't
played high school ball yet. After ninth grade, I got
with Q and the AAU team from Larry Butler to
Illinois Warriors. They just switched over the Nikes. So you know,
I'm a new hot commodity. Came out of nowhere, my
name in the streets of Smith, you know what I'm saying,
and all that stuff. So they invited me to Jordan
(19:54):
Camp in Santa Barbara. So you know, I went to
Jordan Camp in Santa Barbara, out there for two weeks.
They gave us a damn check and all that stuff.
So you know, I went out there and hooping after afterwards,
after the camp, you know, we'll hoop with Mike and
Mike could get out there and so forth on. So
the first day I played against Mike and then he
(20:17):
just like he killed me. Like everybody was kind of
scared to walk up on him. So I was like, no,
I gart him, you know what I'm saying. So I
went and guard him, and he killed me. I blocked
the shot a couple of times, but he killed me.
After that, he chose me to be on his team
every every day after that for the next two weeks.
Like he liked the way I play, and shit, we
(20:38):
ken't cuting him ass for like two weeks, you know,
what I'm saying, cause quting him was like the college guys.
You know what I'm saying, Because he'll put all the
college guys on. Then he'll grab some of the high
school guys and a few of the college guys. So
we kept cuting him man for like two weeks. That
was my introduction to him, Like I know, I remember
my scene and he looked like he was just glowing,
like he had you know what I'm saying, like Bruce
(20:59):
Lee Roy going I'm talking about he just glowing. I
remember I remember calling my mom and she was like, yeah,
so how was Michael Jordan. I was like, man, he
cussed like us And she was like what. I was like, Yeah,
he cussed like us. He'd be saying ship fuck all
that ship I'm talking about. He just cussed. She said,
boy for real? I said, yeah, I couldn't believe he
(21:21):
cussed because it was it's him Jay, like he talked
like us. But after that, I started going to the
camp every summer, and even when we got drafted, we
went to the camp, but me and Q showed up.
After we got drafted, we showed up to Santa Barbara.
We had nothing but a one girl. Remember, a one
was just trying to get any guys to get so
(21:43):
we had nothing but a one girl. So we came
out there the first day with the one.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Mike wasn't having that, and Mike looked he was like.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
He was like, he was like what y'all got on?
I was like, he was like, I thought y'all was
a Nike guy, and we was like, yeah, we reached
out to Nike. Nike really weren't fucking with us like that.
So he was like, all right, I'm gonna make a
few calls for y'all. So, you know, went through the day.
Everything's good. We woke up that morning. Our age of
(22:14):
car was like, man, what happened? Like, what you're talking about?
I just got two contracts from y'all to be signed
with Jordan and Nike gonna damn like, Nike gonna pay y'all,
but y'all under Jordan were like what nah, that can't
be too next thing, you know, we get a knock
on the door, it's like four boxes, damn. And after
(22:35):
that we was in rest is history.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
What was your favorite part? I mean, you still Jordan
to this day. What was your favorite part about kind
of being into that fraternity.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Man, just growing up watching Mike and you know, being
an Illinois kid and always dreamed of playing with the
Bulls and doing all that stuff and just coming up
under Mike. Like we watched Mike eighty two games on WGEN.
You know I'm saying, we watched every single game. It
wasn't the regional thing for us, you know what I'm saying.
(23:05):
So just being in his presence to be a part
of get some of him, to rub some of that
stuff off on us. Man, it's always been a blessing,
and you know, we really appreciate it. What's better, like
folksing died where I'm from over Jordan's growing up, you
know what I'm saying, Like a lot of stuff happens
over Jordan. Jordan Is in the black community is a
(23:27):
shoe that's just golden to us, you know what I'm saying.
So to be representing that, it kind of just added
the flavor the culture to us, you know what I'm saying.
That's now guys wearing Jordan's you know what I'm saying,
wearing the Jordan they start wearing our jerseys. It just
helped us kind of moved into that that that iconic
era where you know, we up there with the guys
(23:50):
who who's selling the jersey? Like my jersey was top
five the first two years in the league, you know
what I'm saying, Like stuff like that, you start seeing
your jersey all on on videos and stuff like that.
So just I feel like Jordan had something to do
with that, because Jordan is like our culture.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
What was the outside feeling. Obviously on the court, you
guys are starting to come together as a very young team.
But off the court, y'all are popping. Y'all on the
cover of Slam. You guys are in movies. You guys
are at every premiere. There's so much to do. Because
I'm in Collin, I'm at UCLA at this time, and
you were all the same agent. I'm seeing you guys
everywhere movies, covers, billboards.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
I mean, what was that like for you?
Speaker 2 (24:28):
I mean, a kid from you know, East Saint Louis
and now you're on the biggest stage in Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
It was real different. Like we started getting folks that
really rock with us that we didn't know. We started
getting the streets, like you know, the Lakers kind of
run the land. You know what I'm saying, but we
started really getting the street, the grassroot guys. The folks,
even they know they was a Laker fan. They appreciate
how hard and how we played like we was exciting
(24:53):
a whole lot of dunking and celebrating. I remember when
we really start celebrating a lot after everything we do,
you folksing wasn't wasn't too happy about that. Like, you know,
the league was so old school that they didn't really
appreciate guys celebrating or or you know, they felt like
(25:13):
it was show bolting and all that stuff. I mean,
Jerry Sloan, the shun. Stevens used to always tell us
about Jerry Sloan, how he used to talk about us, like,
we don't want them to be out there doing that
because most of the time, if we're doing that, I mean,
we're kicking our lass, you know what I'm saying, That
were bumping our heads and stuff. So it was just
a blessing to just see how the culture kind of
(25:33):
embraced us. Not only the culture, but you know, Slam magazine.
You know what I'm saying. We did the first reality
show on ESPN. You know what I'm saying, The La
Hoops just all that is. Like I was just saying,
the videos, the rap videos, our name in the rap songs,
like that was all a blessing. And like I said,
none of us is All Stars, like even Lamar, you
(25:55):
know which he should have probably made an All Star
Game before, but none of us was ever All Star
or none of us probably would never be a Hall
of Famer. But you know, we embraced in the culture
so deep respected by Twitter peers too. Yeah. Yeah, if
you can't get all the accolades and the individual awards,
(26:15):
like that's one of the biggest awards you can get
by your prayers, respecting what you're doing. I mean that's
even for me.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
That's even with Jordan, you know what I'm saying, Like
for him to want us to wear his brand for
the rest of our life, and we didn't get the
props and you know, accolades that we thought we should
deserve from playing basketball. I think that's like a trophy
to me too, you know what I'm saying, That's like
a trophy to us to be able to get boxes
from the best player that ever played the game.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying, Like.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
You get free shoes from you sometimes yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
But it's at the point now if I go any
place and I don't got Jordan or anything on, like,
they be disappointed. Yeah, yeah, yez to Milwaukee. I had
to get them red ye And I went to Milwaukee
and I was at the little Celebrity game and I
had my red yeezz on and he was like, man,
(27:07):
I came here strictly to see you put MIC's on,
have some mics on. So now they'd be disappointed if
I don't work Jordans. They kicked me out. It's like, man,
y'all gonna make me work Jordan.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
You have to get permission for the Officer game? Remember, Yeah, Yeah,
I think you think you put did you put him
on put the Officer game?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
No? You didn't put him up an Iicon game? No? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Loyal to the Soil Lebron's rookie year. Yeah, on the
Caps from lebron rookie season. He was part of the
infamous video This and Braun.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah that was. I don't think you can really just
bring a high school player in and really just think
your team gonna really turn around like that. If he come,
you know what I'm saying, he can just hop on
our bandwagon. And hopefully we can do something.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
I mean, he was ready Loki hate. It was Loki hat,
it wasn't okay works, let's talk about it.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Well, uh, you know, Lebron is a straight out of
high school guy. You know, if you take you know,
if you know anything about these cameras and interviews, you
can take certain clips or certain answers and you can
clip it and make it look like something, of course,
but what really happened was I was defending Lebron, right,
(28:21):
you know what I'm saying, Like I'm a country boy
and I didn't have the proper teaching of how to talk.
So probably the words that I use probably sound that way,
but the all actuality is I was really defending him,
you know what I'm saying. We were on a team
(28:42):
where the owner was a blind man. You know what
I'm saying, Gordon Gunn He he couldn't do nothing but
here a game, so he couldn't really see what really
was going on until the next year where we had
a new owner. So when they asking these questions, they
don't purposely trying to lose this season to get Lebron.
(29:02):
So the rest of the guys was, you know, they
felt some kind of way. But I knew Lebron. Lebron
used to come over my house. I'm I'm at Thanksgiving
dinner that year with Lebron, Like I'm hooping with Lebron.
This this is my guy. You know what I'm saying.
His locker specifically got put next to mine because we
have that relationship. And mind you, that interview was the
(29:23):
year before he got there, so we had If he
felt that kind of way that I was talking about
him like that, we would never have been as close
as what we is. But you know how they edited
and how they said it is what it is. I
don't really get into all that, but I know I
was defending him.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
You were speaking from the experiences of being ahidesking draft out.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Of the high school. To be real with you, it's
never been a guy like that, especially out of high school.
It's never been a guy that you put that that
much expectations on to just give a franchise to and
just say he finished turning a immediately like that. So
I'm like, Nah, you ain't finna do my guy like that.
You ain't finna put that pressure on him like that.
(30:08):
So I was really defending him. But like I say,
you know, country boy didn't get the proper media training,
so you know, words might have sound different to y'all
than it did to me. If you read the quote,
it ain't really hate because shit, I thought it was finish.
The same shit was finna happened the year before, so
like it was crazy to get you know what I'm saying.
I never lost this much a day in my life.
(30:30):
I just got drafted to the team that was the
worst team in the NBA. Didn't get traded to the
worst team in the NBA, So you know what's going
on right there? This year. I'm like, nah, y'all, ain't
finna put all these expectations on my boy. And I'm
looking at us getting our ass kicked every day. We
want seventeen games out of eighty two. That's crazy, you
(30:51):
know what I'm saying, Nah, y'all, ain't finna do my
guy like that. He straight out of high school. I
see him and his mama on the regular basis. I'm
at Lebron games holding the fat head up. Yeah, you
know what I'm saying, or the fan signs with his
face like I went to. His game was more packed
than I Yeah, like so, and I was the only
(31:15):
Cavalier that was at his games or had that relationship
with him, Like even with Rich Paul. Rich Paul was
was dwine Wagoner homeboy. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
But Rich introduced me to Lebron. Yeah, and ever since
then we was cool. I played summer league. I'm four
(31:36):
years in the league. I played summer league strictly because
Lebron came and played because we had a relationship like that.
I didn't, you know, four years in the league and
you've been playing I shouldn't have been that summer league, right,
But I played summer league. I went to Orlando and
Boston with them to play summer league because it was
me and him Boozer, Big Sagana job, dwine Wagoner. It
(31:58):
was like, shit, I need to be a part of
this y'all to kill or something.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
And I'm four years in. Yeah, but you know it
is with it. Let's switch gears. Talk about mental health.
You struggled with depression and privately after his retirement or
losses fortune through bad business deals. A lot of this
stuff I know about. It's just we all go through
stuff after retire, trying to figure our identity. A lot
(32:24):
of stuff that people say that you went through a
lot of it wasn't true. I know you personally, and
a lot of stuff we went through together, just going
through the ups and downs man of losing, losing moms,
trying to figure out where we're going, you know, after basketball,
the alcohol stuff. Just talk about you know, dealing with
mental health and the struggles of trying to figure things
out along with dealing with loss.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Yeah, you know, coming out of high school playing basketball
since fifth grade, I never really had no problem. Everything
has been, you know, great, Everything has been right. So
at the end of my career knee injury, I started
seeing what the other guys see, trying to come on
(33:04):
the team and try to make a team, because remember
I came to Bobcats, try to make a team and
you're not the favorite on the team. I never really
been in that position, but after it was kind of
kind of felt in me that I can't really move
my knees or move the way that I really want
to move. I knew I had to retire after I
had to retire. Soon as I retired, my grand my
(33:27):
grandfather passed away, then my grandmother passed away, then my
mama passed away. So these are the three people in
the house that I grew up with my whole life.
I don't got no brothers and sisters. You know, my homeboys.
Shoot my homeboys or my brothers. So I'm the only child.
So everybody that I grew up in the house with
(33:47):
passed away. So losing my careers are something that that's
the only thing I know is basketball. Then losing the
three most important people in my life. Because like when
I lost my granddaddy, it didn't hurt as bad because
I still had my grandmama and my mom. Then I
lost my grandmama, I felt it a little bit more,
(34:08):
but I still had my mom. So then when I
lost my mom, it was like you shut down. I
was worried about you. It's just like I tried to
keep myself away from good people because I didn't want
to rub I didn't want to treat good people in
my life the wrong way of how I felt. You
know what I'm saying. I was like mad at the world.
(34:30):
But then I didn't know about depression or anxiety or
so forth on like that because I never been through
nothing like that. I never thought that was real. Like
when somebody say they have an anxiety attack or they
have anxiety. I'm like, man, you bullshit smoke one that
ain't real until I start experiencing it myself. So you
(34:51):
know that, it was like eight years that I just
kind of shut down on the world, like completely, friends, family, everybody,
because I was so angry at the world. You know
what I'm saying, Like my mom died of cancer. I
couldn't blame it on the person. I didn't say this
(35:11):
person shot my mom or or did something to my mama.
It was like an invisible thing I was mad at.
And then you know, you getting that mode, you start
seeing red, you can start getting in trouble every which
a way. So that's when I went through everything, and
then my kids made me kind of like get out
(35:32):
of them. Seven eight years I was just thinking about, man,
I gotta get back out here and do something for
my kids, to leave my kids something, because how hard
the world is. You know what I'm saying, Like it's
hard to live in this world and accomplish something by yourself,
(35:52):
let alone. You know what I'm saying with somebody, So
just try to get back out here and just try
to give them something, To give them something, I can
leave them kind of give them the knowledge that I
know the ups and downs and you know, kind of
keep it real with them and they kind of thinking
about them as as I was going through depression and
all that stuff kind of made me get up out.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Of what happy You found that that median and were
able to pull yourself out, because a lot of people
don't pull especially when you lost your career ends short
and then you lose the three most important people. A
lot of people don't make it out of the situation
you made it out of. And that ain't even have
man like, it's the last stuff we can't talk about.
You know what I'm saying That ain't even half bro. Yeah,
(36:34):
I want to backped a little bit because you two
thousand and five, you think you're getting a simple knee
procedure and you wake up and find out it's a
micro fracture surgery you had, And at that time, a
micro fractior surgery took the careers of Chris Webber, Penny Hardaway,
Jamal Mashburn, Alan Houston. It's a surgery that they don't
(36:55):
even do anymore, and you didn't necessarily know that was
the type of surgery you were putting yourself into.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yeah, you know, you get in there and they see
that it's hold in your college that they got to feel.
And the only at the time, the only thing that's
kind of that they kind of do it on older folks,
you know what I'm saying. That's where it really came
from older folks. But at the time, micro fax a surgery,
so it extended the months, is extending everything, and I
(37:22):
just never was the same after that.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Two year recovery.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Once you kind of get back to trying to be
who you were, because your game was, like you said,
you were more of that new.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Age of.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
You're big, but your guard and you're a high flyer.
You can handle the ball, you're coming off, picking rolls,
you're making decisions. But if you got a need that
doesn't agree with what your mind is doing, what was
that life?
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah, it's it's different. Like my mind had a mentality
that my body couldn't live live up to. And it
was starting to come into that age in the NBA
where you're not keeping the veteran guys who got an
IQ or who can steal play but it might not
be the athletic person version of themself, but they still
can play the game that transition was kind of going.
(38:08):
It was starting to get super young, so it was
just hard. And you know, I probably fought maybe two
years longer than I should have fought, trying to play
waste a lot of a lot of time and money.
If I go back on it, I would have I
would have been done when I left Poland and kind
of got my mind right to somebody to do something else.
(38:29):
But you know, it's just nothing you can really do
when when your body kind of shut down. You know,
I didn't lift weights or do weights until I was
my third year in the league. Like Cleveland made me
start going to the weight room every day. Like I
put in the work, Trust me, I was in the
gym all the time, putting into work. But I didn't
(38:49):
know that the weight room go hand.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
In hand with But shit, there wasn't no more fucking
weight room in La.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
No, it wasn't.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
There wasn't a weight room, No, it really was. Yeah,
there wasn't bro there wasn't no. There wasn't no training
training area. There was. There was a fucked up junior
college gym.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Yeah, but I'm from East Saint Louis, so they didn't
they really let you go in the weight rooms. Something bad.
It happened, you know what I'm saying, Like it wasn't
we never. I never grew up in a program in
high school where he had a program which started you
on waits and all that stuff kind of teach you
how to go. Just maybe if I went to college,
I probably got you know what I'm saying. Definitely would
(39:26):
have got to it. But you know I went straight
to Lee. Can I get a thank you for what?
You know? I just I've recently seen the rook yarll
Star game. You know how many points you got off
me that game? Don't? Yeah? You worked for me.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
I didn't know I was working for you that day,
but it showed looked like it. It show looked like
I was employed by Daris Miles that game because I
was past you the ball every time all the time,
finished myself in the position.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
I'm surprised didn't win MVP. Nah, we lost, I know,
but that's why Steve Francis. Everybody who lose.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
He was on the sophomore team.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Yeah, sophomore. Everybody who lose. The winners the winner team
get the MVP. Was killing highlights. Yeah, I had about
ten donks by six game for me. I mean, I
don't think you guys get the credit. Obviously, the team
I played for later in the two thousands, then we
were phrased your coin lob city. Y'all motherfuckers is really
(40:23):
throwing lobs though, Yeah, we was. We was. I think
I think, like I said, I think the fans kind
of love the way we played. We played, we competed,
We weren't scared, you know what I'm saying. We was
all out there trying to prove ourselves from our best
player all the way to our worst player. So you know,
(40:44):
I think that was just the big, the big key
to everything of how we rock. And I think that's
how we got a fan base to get to the
point of this, because you know, a lot of these
fans it's twenty five years from now, but a lot
of these fans was just started being fans twenty five
years we got drafted in the two thousand.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
I credit you guys for kind of starting that real
Clipper fan base because there wasn't no Clipper fan base
because I came right after you left. Right after you left,
I went to the and we went back to winning
seventeen games. We was dog shit, you know what. I mean,
but we still had a loyal You guys had built
a loyal fan base, and year by year there started
becoming more fans. And then when I went back in
two thousand and thirteen twelve, we took the NBA over
(41:28):
with CP and.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
Blake and DJ and JJ and me and Jamal.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
But I credit you guys in that two thousands for
kind of building that foundation, because the Clipper fan base
wasn't shipped.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Before you begin the beginning of our rookie year. Nasty.
It was nobody.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
I was like, what was the semi pro the Flint
the Flint Tropics.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Hey, I hate my fucking staff. Who did this? I didn't.
It was nobody in that motherfucker. But we started feeling
up to by the end of the year, we started
feeling up the Lord. Yeah, and you know it went
from there.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
They was like the Flint Tropics at first, about eighteen
people in the stands.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Like but but people like Kadem Hardison, Penny.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
Penny Marshall, Yeah, you had to.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Like there was like old faithfuls that we seen every
game they was in their rapping for I just guaranteed
to get the kids from Penny Marshall on their lips.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Remember the one thing I did love though, is just
La loved y'all. Yeah, La loved you and Q and
that whole team, but particularly you and Q kind of
stood to the front of what the Clippers stood for.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
At that time. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's just like,
you know, us celebrating. They kind of put the label
on kind of put the label on us. That's why
folks kind of rock with it.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
In two thousand and four, you started the Purpose Score
with Chris Evans aka Captain American Scott Johansson.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
The movies about kids that find out the way to
cheat on the sat is based on Young Stack. Can
you talking about it?
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Yeah? I didn't even really want to do that movie,
like to be real, but you I ain't want to because,
like I said, country boy, La is so busy and
it's such a different world. Like soon as the seasons though,
with I was on the first thing, smoking back home
home to kind of get that that normal sit in
(43:25):
the yard, play some spades, you know what I'm saying,
Just chill. So I had to go back to La
to do the audition, you know what I'm saying. So
my agent trying to get me to go back. He
was like yes for this amount of money and so forth.
And I'm like, yeah, I'm cool. I don't really want
to do it. He was like, nah, you need to
do it. He's a big producer, is a big fan
of yours. He needs you to do it. So I
(43:48):
flew back to La I came and I just bullshit
at the audition like yeah, what you want? We read
about this by They all right, and I'm out. He
called you back a few hates later, like yeah, you
got the part. He was like, but you gotta go
to Vancouver for like a month and a half and
shoot your part. So it's like it's gonna take my
sum away. So I flew to Vancouver and stayed in
(44:10):
Vancouver for about about a month and a half and
I did the movie. Like when I was out there,
Holly Berry was doing the movie. They was doing. That
was the first Jason Versus Freddy. They was doing that
out there. A lot of production was out there, especially
with Paramount, and yeah I pulled it off. Yeah it
(44:33):
gotta be the right role. Yeah, it gotta make sense,
the right production, like you know, like that was Paramount.
It was first, like the Red Carpet was laid all
the way out. They very professional, had a ball, you
know what I'm saying. With them with the scarlet was
like the youngest one she was like she was like
seventeen or sixteen or something like that. But Chris, everybody
(44:59):
else they was it was cool, you know what I'm saying.
And I was a I was big on what was
it the Superman shows? Mar No, it wasn't Marvel. It
was a small Ville. So the producer of Smallville was
the producer of the movie, So you know, I was
(45:21):
watching small Ville, so you know we related on that end.
So it was it was real dope. You know, I'm
glad I did it now because you know, my kids
get to get a big kick out of it. Uh,
other people get a kick out of it. We did
Van Wilder dope, right, Yeah, Yeah, we did Van Wilder too.
That was dope. We did art lists. Uh, we did
(45:45):
one on one with Kyle Pratt. You know what I'm
saying that just being out here in l A, like,
everybody who picked us was like, yeah, I'm a big
Clipper fan, so they asked us to come and do it.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
I just remember every time I went to Fox Hills
sometimes somehow I saw this nigga every time I went
to Fox.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
Hills just he was just happen to be in fox
heals himy q Uh.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
We used to mess with the shoe store because you
know they and are selling joints and me and q
A being there with some Jeordans that they don't got.
Rook was in Fox Hills Moms too, for Rooke was
in Fox Hills Mall. Roof was in Fox Hills too,
So you know you're definitely gonna get that good Walker,
you know what I'm saying. Walker and them pro Club Walker,
Pro Club, that good Walker and they had a spot
(46:26):
up there. We used to eat it all the time,
the little noodles. Oh in the food court. Yeah. They
scrave it up the fire. Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
They used to fry it and put it all stick
all around the fire. Then they straight your plate.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
Yeah that might still be there, all right, Quick hitters
man first team to come to mind. Let us know
top five big man dunkers of all time? Big man
dunkers or you were a big man though he was sixteen,
so you was in the big man category.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Two. Uh well, Kemp, Yeah, I would say Blake Griff,
Aaron Gordon special pick.
Speaker 4 (47:03):
What about the dude that was drafted right in front
of you?
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Stro Miles Miles Stro? Who else?
Speaker 4 (47:11):
What about you with me? And I mean I don't
see why not?
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Yeah, I think I'm didn't you leave the league in dunks? Now?
I was behind shot close shack, Yeah, you was right
up there. Well, I put me in as you should,
as you should. One album on repeat Right now, I've
been listening to the Kendrick gn X.
Speaker 3 (47:33):
Shout out g X, Shout out the boy too though,
shout out Drake Wings Them niggas ain't paying us for nothing,
shout out.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Both of them. Guilty I got. I had a future
little mixed little playlist that I made my future future, my.
Speaker 4 (47:49):
Guy Pluto, guilty pleasure.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
I don't know. I got old man.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
That's really you don't feel guilty about it no more?
Speaker 1 (48:00):
Oh childhood crush? Who was your childhood crush coming up?
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Man?
Speaker 1 (48:05):
The Longe Holly Berry, uh, the short hair chicking total
Jada Picket. You know there's a lot of it's long Listen.
We had a good era coming up.
Speaker 4 (48:19):
We had to look at it coming We had a
lot to look at. What was it like meeting? Because again,
I know your personality.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
You're not.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
You don't really fan out. But what was it like
meeting the stars in La that you kind of seen
growing up?
Speaker 1 (48:31):
It was crazy. Neil Longe actually stayed right down the
street from me when I moved up Marina Dale, right
seeing her walk by, like, man, that's near. Long couldn't be.
But yeah, everybody was. You got some sugar. Everybody was cool.
You know, I really ain't a big starstruck person like
(48:53):
it gotta be certain people like Mike Jordan's Mike Jack
five dinner.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Guess that are you plus five having a nice dinner
with some cannabis and some cocktails.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
I love to have dinner with Tupac. I love to
have dinner with Biggie. I love to sit down with Obama.
I love to sit down with Mike Jack and Muhammad Ali.
So I just knew he was gonna throw moms at
the table. I just knew he was gonna throw moms
at that table.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
Sir, if you could see one person on this show,
who would it be? But you have to help us
get your answer on the show. I got to help
to Yeah, you just said.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
I'm working for you, Now you work for me, Nigga,
I love to see on y'all show. That'll be dope.
It's two people I think. I think Mike Jordan would
be be a dope. I'm gonna keep text us. I'm
gonna keep texting on your show. I think jay Z
will be a dope person. Will We'll be hon it. Man.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
We appreciate your time and definitely just wanted to give
you your flowers again. I saw your journey. You're younger
than me, but you were ahead of me and be
able to see what you did for the game and
unfortunately how it had to end. But the way you
hit rock bottom where we were able to reinvent yourself
and like you said, for your kids, for your family,
what you and Q were doing. Now, you guys are
the real ojs of this ship. You know, you guys
(50:21):
came before us and kind of showed us what to do,
and then we kind of came in and you know,
inspired a lot of other people. But we owe you
guys a lot for kind of laying that blueprint and
just really proud of you.
Speaker 4 (50:31):
Man.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Like I said, it's a lot of people don't make
it out of the shit you went through. I mean,
these people got the kind of the PG version of
what you had to bring yourself out of. But knowing
you for a long time and knowing where your heart
is and what kind of man you are, man, it
just makes me proud to say that, you know, you're
a brother, man and we appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Man. Also, also let me let me touch on that too.
Speaker 3 (50:48):
You know, people always give us our props on the
podcast space and being creatives, but y'all was one of
the first to do.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Y'all, y'all somebody who inspired us for you.
Speaker 3 (50:57):
So I said, so, we want to give your props
up that space because a lot of people tend to
give us our problems.
Speaker 4 (51:02):
Did be in this space, didn't. I just say that.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
I'm just saying a lot of people, a lot of
people this, This is what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (51:07):
Oh to me, a lot of people give us our
problems everywhere we go and to try to give us
a popase like we started it. But we gave it
to y'all. Yeah, we we know where we've seen it first.
You know what I'm saying. So I just wanted to
clarify that on our podcast while you're here.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
I just say, man, everything been great for me ever
since I stopped hanging around Jackson. Been all uphill since then.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Yeah, for sure. House hold up, bro, we gotta give you,
We gotta give you. It's a parting gifts man should
that's a rad man. Give it up for Darius Miles, Sir.
Speaker 3 (51:38):
My brother black attack. Nobody I hate more than him.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
He said.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
My life, my life has been so much better since
I was worst friend.
Speaker 3 (51:46):
It's the worst friend I've ever had in my life.
His name is Darius Miles. He's the only person that
calls me with insults and hangs up.
M m.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Mm hmmmm.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Today we want to welcome man some When I was
in college, just he was younger than me, but he
came to LA and just kind of took the scene over.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
You know, I was admiring from Afar where you and
Q kind of started in that early two thousands in
the LA scene.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Talk to us about your start.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Eat.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Saint Louis's has has created some very talented basketball players,
but you were one of the early ones. Talk to
us about your upbringing, what that looked like, East Saint
Louis born.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I came up in a city whereas eighty nine blocks
like three different ways. We uh, East St. Louis is Illois.
A lot of people don't know Saint Louis is Missouri,
so we'll hold another state. But I rapped both sides
because I went all around hooping with everybody. But when
I came up, one of the motivating things for me,
(01:14):
especially in basketball, my mom made me play basketball because
I was always big. But she I thought she was
taking away my freedom, Like, you know, after school, I'm
playing with my friends and all that stuff. And then
what was she telling me to go to basketball practice?
Like after basketball practice the street lights on I can
out side you know what I'm saying, the days over.
(01:35):
So that was like a struggle at first, but then
I started playing, and then she drove school buses. So
it's this famous coach in East Saint Louis named Benny Lewis.
He was the high school coach. He was the first
black coach to win a state title in Illinois. He
was the first coach to win three state titles in
the row in Illinois. My mom always drove the bus,
(01:56):
the field trip bus for their games. So I used to,
you know, ride on the bus, be right there sitting
next to the coach when I was younger, and I
used to go to them games back in the day
and I used to see them and I always wanted
to play for him. So as I got older and older,
when I finally got a chance to go to high school,
(02:18):
I went to Lincoln Senior High School went to play
with him. They closed down our school after my sophomore year.
When I'm from seventh through nights was junior high and ten.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Through twelfth high grade was junior high.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, so I only played three years of high school.
So when I got to tenth grade, I went to
Lincoln after they closed that school down, and then I
went to our rival school because my coach decided to
coach the last couple of my years. And that's how
it all came about.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
When did you realize that, like shit, I might be
able to do this for a living.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Probably after my ninth grade year, because I was in
junior high. So ninth grade I didn't play against high
school guy. I au coach where I met Q. He
came from Chicago. He came down and he went to
all the high schools, and the high schools was telling
him like, yeah, it's this kid in junior high. He
gonna probably be the best player from around here. But
(03:15):
I was playing program though, like I won. I wasn't
even playing with kids my age for real. I was
playing programs. So when he came down, you know, got
from Chicago, slick talking, I'm looking at him like, man,
I ain't messing with you, you know what I'm saying.
And your high school was ten eleven twelve. Huh your
high school eleven tw Yeah, So when he came to
(03:37):
my junior high, he was like he was talking slick.
I was like, yeah, I ain't really mess with you.
He gave me his number and stuff, so I did'n't
give it to my mom because I was playing with
like college and pros like Anthony Bonner and Larry Hughes
and them during the summer and stuff like that. So
when I'm looking at it, I'm just thinking he's slick talking.
But my teacher went to school with my mom and
she called my mom and told him about him. So
(04:00):
she came to me and she was like, Yeah, You're
gonna go and play in his spotlight. And I was
like for what. Then my mom had she had a
heart attack. So as she had a heart attack, she
had the surgery, she woke up out the surge, she
would like, go to the spotlight. Made my cousin take
me to the spike. Like That's why I met Q
and them and the restless history. I started playing with him,
(04:22):
started playing with the they just switched over from Adidas
to Nike. And after I played with him, played my
first tournament, they was like, I'm ranked number three in
the nation as a sophomore.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
What was your first impression to Q? Because Q was
a monster from early on.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
It really wasn't just Q. It was like their whole
team because they was like one of the like that
year that summer, they only lost one game the whole summer,
Like they played like ten tournaments, peace Jam, all them
Big Time Tournament, they lost one game, Like it really
won't him. It was more of the team because three
or four of them guys that played on the AAU team.
(04:58):
They was on his high school team.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
He went to what Whitney Young?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
He went to Whitney Young. That's why I almost went
to but I didn't want to go all the way
to Chicago to play with him. But yeah, it was
more of his team. But Q stuck out more to
me because he was the one that was the McDonald
All American. He was the one that was going through
the phase that I was gonna probably have to go
to my senior year. So I was really watching him
(05:24):
real close and seeing.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Like is he two years older than you?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, he was about to be a senior when I.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Was about to be a sophomore.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Okay, So I was watching him a lot, so watching
his journey from when he decided to go to the pall,
when he decided when he uh, when he made All State,
when he was running up to miss the basketball. They
won state that year, my sophomore year and watched them
go to McDonald's, So you know, that was just like
the blueprint. I started really getting into what was going
(05:54):
on because all I knew was like pro am, Like
that was the level I was playing, and I was
playing since I was in seventh grade, so I was
I was already playing with adults and stuff high school.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
As you kind of start progressing through high school, and
like you said, you jump on the scene as a sophomore,
your number three in your class. As you continue to
go through your junior senior year, what.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Was it college?
Speaker 3 (06:19):
All?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Was college ever coming the picture? Or you wanted to
make that jump? And if you wanted to make that jump,
what was the reason why? No, I ain't think about
making a joint. I committed early. I committed before my
senior year. I committed in November the Saint John's. I
committed with Mike Jarvis. I Odmar Cook for real. I
always wanted to play with a dope point guard that
(06:41):
was like a fast person type point guard. So I
was falling Oldmar Cook.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
He wanted to go to North Carolina, but North Carolina
chose Adam Boom over him, and when they did that,
he decided to go to Saint John's. I went on
the visit. That was the first time I met jay Z.
On the visit, I went to Midnight Madness. You know
what I'm saying. She was hosting it, so jay Z
(07:06):
was Yeah, jay Z was hosting it. So that's the
first time I met jay and he committed. So I
committed early, saying he wish. I felt it was a
good commitment because he led the nation and assistance freshman year.
So yeah, I went with Mike Jarvis. My dream school
was was Georgetown, but John Thompson he retired right before
(07:27):
I came out.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
So what made you decide to d commit and put
your name in the draft.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Mike Jarvis and my AAU coach came to me and
was like saying that you top five, top ten because
I told him they they was mentioning it to me.
But you know, I'm from the hood. I don't believe
in until I actually see it, you know what I'm saying.
So when they was telling me this, I told him,
I was like, yeah, the only way I jumped if
I go lottery, which lottery was top twelve because I
(07:55):
just seen Rashard Lewis slip in the draft and how
he and his family was looking. I was like, yeah,
I ain't even gonna play with that. So when they
was telling me and Mike Jo was you know, he
could have been selfish or not told me nothing. He
was keeping it real with me, like, yeah, they talking
about you, top five, top ten. Then I went on
(08:17):
like two workouts and they was like, yeah, you top
top three, top five, Time to go. Yeah, it was out.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
I've been to East Saint Louis with you, and I
know how hard it is come from there.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I've seen it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
It ain't too much positive stuff going on from there.
So I could mean you for you know, continuing to
go through the ups and downs. I know what you
went through going up to come out. But what made
you choose to come out of high school? Just just
the grind, the grind of everything. Like me and my mom.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
My mom is the youngest child out of all my
grandmother kids, but I stayed in the house basically my
whole life with my grandmother and my granddad. I was
like the only kid, you know, cousin or whatever in
the family that grew up with my grandmama and granddadd
That's in the house. So I just seen the struggle
(09:04):
and you know, seeing what we was going through and
so forth on, and like once they kind of reassured
me that I can go lottery, that kind of confirm it.
It was like, that's like four million dollars that you
passing up on just to go to college. They kind
of just put in me, which I was very patient.
My mom was very stern. She was like, man, we
(09:26):
ain't taking nothing from nobody. You don't want to owe
nobody nothing. So I felt like I was earning everything
that I was getting and I was killing everything, Like
I killed the McDonald's game, I killed the USA game.
Like I was one kind of that hybrid from KG.
You know what I'm saying. KG was doing more of
(09:47):
the power forward thing, but I was the hybrid that
was dribbling and playing all the positions, guarding all the positions.
So I felt like how people was talking to me
like I was a unique player. And Mike even told
Mike even said like, yeah, if I was drafting somebody
number one, I draft him, which I was going to night.
I was going to Jordan Camp every summer like for
(10:09):
two weeks. Kind of getting that from him. You know
what I'm saying, So it was just like a no
brainer once they kind of laid it out for me.
I was being patient with it. I wasn't trying to like, yeah,
I'm going out of high school. I never mentioned, never said.
I just let everybody else say it, and it just
kind of came in for us.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
You ended up going number three, behind Keny Martin and
stroke My Swift. I think that was in two thousand draft.
That was actually my first year in the league because
we played the Rookie Allstar Game together. Yeah, coming into
that year, how did you feel? Did you think you
would go higher than three? Or was three right right
where you want to be?
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah? At the draft, they told me it was a
fifty to fifty chance that I can go number one
between me and Kenyan because Kenyan broke his leg, which
you know, I was going to Saint Louis you games
all the time, especially when they played Cincinnati. Cincinnati, they
was all in the USA Conference.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
He was a fucking monster too, Kenyan senior year, Like,
I think if he didn't get hurt, it wouldn't even
been a question he was gonna be number one.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
I let you know how good he was. They broke
his leg is still with No One.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
But also too he went. He was one of those
rare guys that went four years too, Like he was good,
but he went all to college all four Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
So his senior year. I watched him his whole senior year,
like he deserved to be number one, but because he
got hurt, they questioned, you know, whether he was gonna
be healthy enough or whether he was gonna come back
or be right. So it was a fifty to fifty
chance there. Then Vancouver was number two, and my mom
was like, nah, my son ain't going to no Vancouver.
(11:47):
So it wasn't no question. So Steve Francis just got
picked by Vancouver and he refused to go, so with
my mom saying that they didn't even play with it,
you know what I'm saying. And the Clippers. I never
worked out for the Clippers. I really wasn't planning. Nobody
was planning on going to the Clippers. I thought I
(12:07):
was gonna get picked by the Bulls. Me and Jerry
Cross didn't have a like too many good meetings, but
they still was like, yeah, we still ain't gonna pass
up on you. It was a thing about me wearing
braids that we kind of had a problem with me
and my mom. You know, my mom was a big
Bulls fan, you know, coming from Illinois, and she just
asked him, like, man, you let a guy were colored
(12:29):
this her, but you can't let my child wear braids.
She didn't want me to go there, but they said
they still was gonna pick me. So I thought I
was going to the Bulls where Fireser got picked up.
What I wanted to go to the Rockets though I
loved Rudy t I went down there to the Rocks.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
What's that culture?
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Shock? Though?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Coming from the neighborhood you grew up in and you
get thrown into la As what's seventeen years old, right?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
What was that like? It was like a whole nother world.
You know, la is like a like I wasn't used
to that much traffic and I wasn't used to that
many people being around. Moved how it moved around, it
was it was different. You know. That was the first
time being in l A, palm trees, all that stuff.
I realized l A is not as hot as you
(13:15):
know you see on TV. You know, it get cool
out there and in rain in southern California, yeah, realized
a lot of things, but they it was it was
cool because it wasn't like I was getting thrown in
the fire as a Laker, you know what I'm saying.
Because the Lakers ran in town. It was like earning it
(13:36):
and what kind of relaxed me a lot, Like Keon
Cory Young real young team was all with me, you
know what I'm saying, Like I knew all them guys,
like I remember going a playing against Corey Aau, running
through past Kon, like all us kind of knew each
other from the aa U circuit over the years. So
(13:57):
you know, it just made it the easiest transition for me.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I mean, you went to a very very very young
team and like you said, Lakers kind of ran the
LA side of it, but you guys had a young,
exciting team that although you guys didn't want a ton
of games, you got a style and flair was able
to kind of captivate the NBA world. So what is
that kind of going?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Like?
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Again, the team wasn't very good, but you guys were
kind of becoming stars within that. So what was that
transition like for you because you were still a teenager.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I think we I think we became stars because we
was more visible and people can touch us more.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Like we was.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Going, Yeah, I was going to the west Chester games
and Crenshaw games. We was going like we was all
in the mall all the time.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Fox Hill.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah, we was going to area event. We was on
different campuses.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
You know what I'm saying, y'all was working after work.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Yeah. We was like we had energy, like we was
moving around l A and we was like our cars
made us stand out, Like I had a escalate on them,
gold these on them gold ds. Honey spoke and they
was like, man, look at that country boy just riding
through this. So it was different when we came out
(15:10):
here that was shopping with Root. Huh. Yeah, we shocked
everybody shopping with Roo. Everybody shopping for Roo, messed with
Dave all them, you know what I'm saying. It was.
It was just different. We was more touchable, but you
know a lot of people be misconscrewing it. We was
the We was the youngest team ever. Like before we
(15:30):
got there, they won seventeen games out of eighty two.
Our first year we won thirty one. Our second year
we won like thirty nine forty. We was we was
one game out of the playoffs, so that, you know,
I know they'd be like, yeah, we got our ass kicked.
We really wasn't getting our ass kicked. Like it won
no cakewalk. We really weren't getting blown out by teams
(15:51):
and all that stuff. Like every year we beat the Lakers,
like we was really progressing, being the youngest team ever assembled,
you know what I'm saying. And all our guys are
so young, so I know they'd be like, yeah, they
was getting their ass kick. We really wasn't.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Y'all was in it.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
We was coming, you know what I'm saying. I feel
like the second year, only reason we didn't make the
playoffs because that was John Stockton and call them alone.
Really last year with Utah, that was that was the
team that we posed to beat. We had the last
two games against them in the regular season, and they
beat us in LA and in Utah. But I ain't
gonna say nothing about the riff. But we knew what
(16:27):
it was.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
You already know you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
We knew what it was. But we posed to being
in there and we would have played the Lakers the
first round. That's what everybody was talking about. We just
had to win one of them games, that's it. But
they wont both of them, and they wound up being
an AC play the Lakers.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
You don't really know no better because obviously it's your
first couple of years in the league. But the Clippers
weren't the Clippers that we are today as far as
ownership and management and the way shit.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Is supposed to be ran.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Y'all used to practice us south By Southwest with no
real locker room. You had to keep the doors open
so niggas didn't rob your cars out in the parking lot.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Like, yeah, we had to go to them and shower.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
You couldn't even shower, Like the shit was crazy. You
couldn't even shower after practice. But what was that like?
But although you don't know any better and you guys
are progressing, it's not necessarily the real NBA at that time.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, it really, it really kept us hongry. It was
just like we was hungry. Like it really kept us
in the mode we want to prove ourselves to the
NBA because we're going to Dallas and going to different
places and seeing what they got, and we were like, man,
we don't got that. We still were in the league.
Were playing against them, but this is what we want.
So it was just part of the grind. They had
(17:32):
a grind team because you know, like I said, the
year before we got there, that's when the stuff would
Keith Claus happen that I got a lot of guys
just they just revamped the team. They had da you
got jumps, Yeah, they had da. They had big mold tailor.
They had a bunch of guys that the only guy
they had left on that team was was Rick Strong.
(17:55):
You know what I'm saying. They kind of revamped the
whole squad. So and the bad look of that, they
kind of you know, they showed us that to show
us like we don't want y'all to do that. But
we was everywhere like enjoying us backyard barbecueing, like in Inglewood.
We were doing everything.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Was out there living and you got any Donald Sterling stories, not.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Really like you know, me and Q kind of felt
he was weird, so you know, we kind of kept
our distance. You know, the White Party, We'll walk in
there about fifteen minutes and soon as week shake everybody
hand and kiss the baby, we was out. Yeah, you
know what I'm saying. So we really didn't I think
one of the weirdest things that he always used to
(18:36):
do was just come in the locker room after we're
paying with stairs, like half naked and kind of give
you that that uncomfortable type feel or look, you know
what I'm saying, right, that's just you know what I'm saying.
That's probably the creepiest thing that he was doing. But
you know, me and Q kind of you know, we
(18:58):
were kids, you know, we we used to talk about him,
joke about him, kind of making fun of him, even
though he the man is running everything.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Around, get your man, get your spot.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
You know, make fun, you know, because Courya is the
guy Coorya is the guy that was you know, he
looked like a corporate like you could draw him. So
he was the one that he really was looking at
He still looked like yeah, so he ain't never really
met I was sticking bones. He really wasn't looking at
me like that.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
He became a part of the Jordan brand. Give us
your your introduction to MJ and how that Jordan brand
deal came about.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
So the summer, like I would telling you, I haven't
played high school ball yet. After ninth grade, I got
with Q and the AAU team from Larry Butler to
Illinois Warriors. They just switched over the Nikes. So you know,
I'm a new hot commodity. Came out of nowhere, my
name in the streets of Smith, you know what I'm saying,
and all that stuff. So they invited me to Jordan
(19:54):
Camp in Santa Barbara. So you know, I went to
Jordan Camp in Santa Barbara, out there for two weeks.
They gave us a damn check and all that stuff.
So you know, I went out there and hooping after afterwards,
after the camp, you know, we'll hoop with Mike and
Mike could get out there and so forth on. So
the first day I played against Mike and then he
(20:17):
just like he killed me. Like everybody was kind of
scared to walk up on him. So I was like, no,
I gart him, you know what I'm saying. So I
went and guard him, and he killed me. I blocked
the shot a couple of times, but he killed me.
After that, he chose me to be on his team
every every day after that for the next two weeks.
Like he liked the way I play, and shit, we
(20:38):
ken't cuting him ass for like two weeks, you know,
what I'm saying, cause quting him was like the college guys.
You know what I'm saying, Because he'll put all the
college guys on. Then he'll grab some of the high
school guys and a few of the college guys. So
we kept cuting him man for like two weeks. That
was my introduction to him, Like I know, I remember
my scene and he looked like he was just glowing,
like he had you know what I'm saying, like Bruce
(20:59):
Lee Roy going I'm talking about he just glowing. I
remember I remember calling my mom and she was like, yeah,
so how was Michael Jordan. I was like, man, he
cussed like us And she was like what. I was like, Yeah,
he cussed like us. He'd be saying ship fuck all
that ship I'm talking about. He just cussed. She said,
boy for real? I said, yeah, I couldn't believe he
(21:21):
cussed because it was it's him Jay, like he talked
like us. But after that, I started going to the
camp every summer, and even when we got drafted, we
went to the camp, but me and Q showed up.
After we got drafted, we showed up to Santa Barbara.
We had nothing but a one girl. Remember, a one
was just trying to get any guys to get so
(21:43):
we had nothing but a one girl. So we came
out there the first day with the one.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Mike wasn't having that, and Mike looked he was like.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
He was like, he was like what y'all got on?
I was like, he was like, I thought y'all was
a Nike guy, and we was like, yeah, we reached
out to Nike. Nike really weren't fucking with us like that.
So he was like, all right, I'm gonna make a
few calls for y'all. So, you know, went through the day.
Everything's good. We woke up that morning. Our age of
(22:14):
car was like, man, what happened? Like, what you're talking about?
I just got two contracts from y'all to be signed
with Jordan and Nike gonna damn like, Nike gonna pay y'all,
but y'all under Jordan were like what nah, that can't
be too next thing, you know, we get a knock
on the door, it's like four boxes, damn. And after
(22:35):
that we was in rest is history.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
What was your favorite part? I mean, you still Jordan
to this day. What was your favorite part about kind
of being into that fraternity.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Man, just growing up watching Mike and you know, being
an Illinois kid and always dreamed of playing with the
Bulls and doing all that stuff and just coming up
under Mike. Like we watched Mike eighty two games on WGEN.
You know I'm saying, we watched every single game. It
wasn't the regional thing for us, you know what I'm saying.
(23:05):
So just being in his presence to be a part
of get some of him, to rub some of that
stuff off on us. Man, it's always been a blessing,
and you know, we really appreciate it. What's better, like
folksing died where I'm from over Jordan's growing up, you
know what I'm saying, Like a lot of stuff happens
over Jordan. Jordan Is in the black community is a
(23:27):
shoe that's just golden to us, you know what I'm saying.
So to be representing that, it kind of just added
the flavor the culture to us, you know what I'm saying.
That's now guys wearing Jordan's you know what I'm saying,
wearing the Jordan they start wearing our jerseys. It just
helped us kind of moved into that that that iconic
era where you know, we up there with the guys
(23:50):
who who's selling the jersey? Like my jersey was top
five the first two years in the league, you know
what I'm saying, Like stuff like that, you start seeing
your jersey all on on videos and stuff like that.
So just I feel like Jordan had something to do
with that, because Jordan is like our culture.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
What was the outside feeling. Obviously on the court, you
guys are starting to come together as a very young team.
But off the court, y'all are popping. Y'all on the
cover of Slam. You guys are in movies. You guys
are at every premiere. There's so much to do. Because
I'm in Collin, I'm at UCLA at this time, and
you were all the same agent. I'm seeing you guys
everywhere movies, covers, billboards.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
I mean, what was that like for you?
Speaker 2 (24:28):
I mean, a kid from you know, East Saint Louis
and now you're on the biggest stage in Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
It was real different. Like we started getting folks that
really rock with us that we didn't know. We started
getting the streets, like you know, the Lakers kind of
run the land. You know what I'm saying, but we
started really getting the street, the grassroot guys. The folks,
even they know they was a Laker fan. They appreciate
how hard and how we played like we was exciting
(24:53):
a whole lot of dunking and celebrating. I remember when
we really start celebrating a lot after everything we do,
you folksing wasn't wasn't too happy about that. Like, you know,
the league was so old school that they didn't really
appreciate guys celebrating or or you know, they felt like
(25:13):
it was show bolting and all that stuff. I mean,
Jerry Sloan, the shun. Stevens used to always tell us
about Jerry Sloan, how he used to talk about us, like,
we don't want them to be out there doing that
because most of the time, if we're doing that, I mean,
we're kicking our lass, you know what I'm saying, That
were bumping our heads and stuff. So it was just
a blessing to just see how the culture kind of
(25:33):
embraced us. Not only the culture, but you know, Slam magazine.
You know what I'm saying. We did the first reality
show on ESPN. You know what I'm saying, The La
Hoops just all that is. Like I was just saying,
the videos, the rap videos, our name in the rap songs,
like that was all a blessing. And like I said,
none of us is All Stars, like even Lamar, you
(25:55):
know which he should have probably made an All Star
Game before, but none of us was ever All Star
or none of us probably would never be a Hall
of Famer. But you know, we embraced in the culture
so deep respected by Twitter peers too. Yeah. Yeah, if
you can't get all the accolades and the individual awards,
(26:15):
like that's one of the biggest awards you can get
by your prayers, respecting what you're doing. I mean that's
even for me.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
That's even with Jordan, you know what I'm saying, Like
for him to want us to wear his brand for
the rest of our life, and we didn't get the
props and you know, accolades that we thought we should
deserve from playing basketball. I think that's like a trophy
to me too, you know what I'm saying, That's like
a trophy to us to be able to get boxes
from the best player that ever played the game.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying, Like.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
You get free shoes from you sometimes yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
But it's at the point now if I go any
place and I don't got Jordan or anything on, like,
they be disappointed. Yeah, yeah, yez to Milwaukee. I had
to get them red ye And I went to Milwaukee
and I was at the little Celebrity game and I
had my red yeezz on and he was like, man,
(27:07):
I came here strictly to see you put MIC's on,
have some mics on. So now they'd be disappointed if
I don't work Jordans. They kicked me out. It's like, man,
y'all gonna make me work Jordan.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
You have to get permission for the Officer game? Remember, Yeah, Yeah,
I think you think you put did you put him
on put the Officer game?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
No? You didn't put him up an Iicon game? No? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Loyal to the Soil Lebron's rookie year. Yeah, on the
Caps from lebron rookie season. He was part of the
infamous video This and Braun.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah that was. I don't think you can really just
bring a high school player in and really just think
your team gonna really turn around like that. If he come,
you know what I'm saying, he can just hop on
our bandwagon. And hopefully we can do something.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
I mean, he was ready Loki hate. It was Loki hat,
it wasn't okay works, let's talk about it.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Well, uh, you know, Lebron is a straight out of
high school guy. You know, if you take you know,
if you know anything about these cameras and interviews, you
can take certain clips or certain answers and you can
clip it and make it look like something, of course,
but what really happened was I was defending Lebron, right,
(28:21):
you know what I'm saying, Like I'm a country boy
and I didn't have the proper teaching of how to talk.
So probably the words that I use probably sound that way,
but the all actuality is I was really defending him,
you know what I'm saying. We were on a team
(28:42):
where the owner was a blind man. You know what
I'm saying, Gordon Gunn He he couldn't do nothing but
here a game, so he couldn't really see what really
was going on until the next year where we had
a new owner. So when they asking these questions, they
don't purposely trying to lose this season to get Lebron.
(29:02):
So the rest of the guys was, you know, they
felt some kind of way. But I knew Lebron. Lebron
used to come over my house. I'm I'm at Thanksgiving
dinner that year with Lebron, Like I'm hooping with Lebron.
This this is my guy. You know what I'm saying.
His locker specifically got put next to mine because we
have that relationship. And mind you, that interview was the
(29:23):
year before he got there, so we had If he
felt that kind of way that I was talking about
him like that, we would never have been as close
as what we is. But you know how they edited
and how they said it is what it is. I
don't really get into all that, but I know I
was defending him.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
You were speaking from the experiences of being ahidesking draft out.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Of the high school. To be real with you, it's
never been a guy like that, especially out of high school.
It's never been a guy that you put that that
much expectations on to just give a franchise to and
just say he finished turning a immediately like that. So
I'm like, Nah, you ain't finna do my guy like that.
You ain't finna put that pressure on him like that.
(30:08):
So I was really defending him. But like I say,
you know, country boy didn't get the proper media training,
so you know, words might have sound different to y'all
than it did to me. If you read the quote,
it ain't really hate because shit, I thought it was finish.
The same shit was finna happened the year before, so
like it was crazy to get you know what I'm saying.
I never lost this much a day in my life.
(30:30):
I just got drafted to the team that was the
worst team in the NBA. Didn't get traded to the
worst team in the NBA, So you know what's going
on right there? This year. I'm like, nah, y'all, ain't
finna put all these expectations on my boy. And I'm
looking at us getting our ass kicked every day. We
want seventeen games out of eighty two. That's crazy, you
(30:51):
know what I'm saying, Nah, y'all, ain't finna do my
guy like that. He straight out of high school. I
see him and his mama on the regular basis. I'm
at Lebron games holding the fat head up. Yeah, you
know what I'm saying, or the fan signs with his
face like I went to. His game was more packed
than I Yeah, like so, and I was the only
(31:15):
Cavalier that was at his games or had that relationship
with him, Like even with Rich Paul. Rich Paul was
was dwine Wagoner homeboy. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
But Rich introduced me to Lebron. Yeah, and ever since
then we was cool. I played summer league. I'm four
(31:36):
years in the league. I played summer league strictly because
Lebron came and played because we had a relationship like that.
I didn't, you know, four years in the league and
you've been playing I shouldn't have been that summer league, right,
But I played summer league. I went to Orlando and
Boston with them to play summer league because it was
me and him Boozer, Big Sagana job, dwine Wagoner. It
(31:58):
was like, shit, I need to be a part of
this y'all to kill or something.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
And I'm four years in. Yeah, but you know it
is with it. Let's switch gears. Talk about mental health.
You struggled with depression and privately after his retirement or
losses fortune through bad business deals. A lot of this
stuff I know about. It's just we all go through
stuff after retire, trying to figure our identity. A lot
(32:24):
of stuff that people say that you went through a
lot of it wasn't true. I know you personally, and
a lot of stuff we went through together, just going
through the ups and downs man of losing, losing moms,
trying to figure out where we're going, you know, after basketball,
the alcohol stuff. Just talk about you know, dealing with
mental health and the struggles of trying to figure things
out along with dealing with loss.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Yeah, you know, coming out of high school playing basketball
since fifth grade, I never really had no problem. Everything
has been, you know, great, Everything has been right. So
at the end of my career knee injury, I started
seeing what the other guys see, trying to come on
(33:04):
the team and try to make a team, because remember
I came to Bobcats, try to make a team and
you're not the favorite on the team. I never really
been in that position, but after it was kind of
kind of felt in me that I can't really move
my knees or move the way that I really want
to move. I knew I had to retire after I
had to retire. Soon as I retired, my grand my
(33:27):
grandfather passed away, then my grandmother passed away, then my
mama passed away. So these are the three people in
the house that I grew up with my whole life.
I don't got no brothers and sisters. You know, my homeboys.
Shoot my homeboys or my brothers. So I'm the only child.
So everybody that I grew up in the house with
(33:47):
passed away. So losing my careers are something that that's
the only thing I know is basketball. Then losing the
three most important people in my life. Because like when
I lost my granddaddy, it didn't hurt as bad because
I still had my grandmama and my mom. Then I
lost my grandmama, I felt it a little bit more,
(34:08):
but I still had my mom. So then when I
lost my mom, it was like you shut down. I
was worried about you. It's just like I tried to
keep myself away from good people because I didn't want
to rub I didn't want to treat good people in
my life the wrong way of how I felt. You
know what I'm saying. I was like mad at the world.
(34:30):
But then I didn't know about depression or anxiety or
so forth on like that because I never been through
nothing like that. I never thought that was real. Like
when somebody say they have an anxiety attack or they
have anxiety. I'm like, man, you bullshit smoke one that
ain't real until I start experiencing it myself. So you
(34:51):
know that, it was like eight years that I just
kind of shut down on the world, like completely, friends, family, everybody,
because I was so angry at the world. You know
what I'm saying, Like my mom died of cancer. I
couldn't blame it on the person. I didn't say this
(35:11):
person shot my mom or or did something to my mama.
It was like an invisible thing I was mad at.
And then you know, you getting that mode, you start
seeing red, you can start getting in trouble every which
a way. So that's when I went through everything, and
then my kids made me kind of like get out
(35:32):
of them. Seven eight years I was just thinking about, man,
I gotta get back out here and do something for
my kids, to leave my kids something, because how hard
the world is. You know what I'm saying, Like it's
hard to live in this world and accomplish something by yourself,
(35:52):
let alone. You know what I'm saying with somebody, So
just try to get back out here and just try
to give them something, To give them something, I can
leave them kind of give them the knowledge that I
know the ups and downs and you know, kind of
keep it real with them and they kind of thinking
about them as as I was going through depression and
all that stuff kind of made me get up out.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Of what happy You found that that median and were
able to pull yourself out, because a lot of people
don't pull especially when you lost your career ends short
and then you lose the three most important people. A
lot of people don't make it out of the situation
you made it out of. And that ain't even have
man like, it's the last stuff we can't talk about.
You know what I'm saying That ain't even half bro. Yeah,
(36:34):
I want to backped a little bit because you two
thousand and five, you think you're getting a simple knee
procedure and you wake up and find out it's a
micro fracture surgery you had, And at that time, a
micro fractior surgery took the careers of Chris Webber, Penny Hardaway,
Jamal Mashburn, Alan Houston. It's a surgery that they don't
(36:55):
even do anymore, and you didn't necessarily know that was
the type of surgery you were putting yourself into.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yeah, you know, you get in there and they see
that it's hold in your college that they got to feel.
And the only at the time, the only thing that's
kind of that they kind of do it on older folks,
you know what I'm saying. That's where it really came
from older folks. But at the time, micro fax a surgery,
so it extended the months, is extending everything, and I
(37:22):
just never was the same after that.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Two year recovery.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Once you kind of get back to trying to be
who you were, because your game was, like you said,
you were more of that new.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Age of.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
You're big, but your guard and you're a high flyer.
You can handle the ball, you're coming off, picking rolls,
you're making decisions. But if you got a need that
doesn't agree with what your mind is doing, what was
that life?
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah, it's it's different. Like my mind had a mentality
that my body couldn't live live up to. And it
was starting to come into that age in the NBA
where you're not keeping the veteran guys who got an
IQ or who can steal play but it might not
be the athletic person version of themself, but they still
can play the game that transition was kind of going.
(38:08):
It was starting to get super young, so it was
just hard. And you know, I probably fought maybe two
years longer than I should have fought, trying to play
waste a lot of a lot of time and money.
If I go back on it, I would have I
would have been done when I left Poland and kind
of got my mind right to somebody to do something else.
(38:29):
But you know, it's just nothing you can really do
when when your body kind of shut down. You know,
I didn't lift weights or do weights until I was
my third year in the league. Like Cleveland made me
start going to the weight room every day. Like I
put in the work, Trust me, I was in the
gym all the time, putting into work. But I didn't
(38:49):
know that the weight room go hand.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
In hand with But shit, there wasn't no more fucking
weight room in La.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
No, it wasn't.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
There wasn't a weight room, No, it really was. Yeah,
there wasn't bro there wasn't no. There wasn't no training
training area. There was. There was a fucked up junior
college gym.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Yeah, but I'm from East Saint Louis, so they didn't
they really let you go in the weight rooms. Something bad.
It happened, you know what I'm saying, Like it wasn't
we never. I never grew up in a program in
high school where he had a program which started you
on waits and all that stuff kind of teach you
how to go. Just maybe if I went to college,
I probably got you know what I'm saying. Definitely would
(39:26):
have got to it. But you know I went straight
to Lee. Can I get a thank you for what?
You know? I just I've recently seen the rook yarll
Star game. You know how many points you got off
me that game? Don't? Yeah? You worked for me.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
I didn't know I was working for you that day,
but it showed looked like it. It show looked like
I was employed by Daris Miles that game because I
was past you the ball every time all the time,
finished myself in the position.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
I'm surprised didn't win MVP. Nah, we lost, I know,
but that's why Steve Francis. Everybody who lose.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
He was on the sophomore team.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Yeah, sophomore. Everybody who lose. The winners the winner team
get the MVP. Was killing highlights. Yeah, I had about
ten donks by six game for me. I mean, I
don't think you guys get the credit. Obviously, the team
I played for later in the two thousands, then we
were phrased your coin lob city. Y'all motherfuckers is really
(40:23):
throwing lobs though, Yeah, we was. We was. I think
I think, like I said, I think the fans kind
of love the way we played. We played, we competed,
We weren't scared, you know what I'm saying. We was
all out there trying to prove ourselves from our best
player all the way to our worst player. So you know,
(40:44):
I think that was just the big, the big key
to everything of how we rock. And I think that's
how we got a fan base to get to the
point of this, because you know, a lot of these
fans it's twenty five years from now, but a lot
of these fans was just started being fans twenty five
years we got drafted in the two thousand.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
I credit you guys for kind of starting that real
Clipper fan base because there wasn't no Clipper fan base
because I came right after you left. Right after you left,
I went to the and we went back to winning
seventeen games. We was dog shit, you know what. I mean,
but we still had a loyal You guys had built
a loyal fan base, and year by year there started
becoming more fans. And then when I went back in
two thousand and thirteen twelve, we took the NBA over
(41:28):
with CP and.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
Blake and DJ and JJ and me and Jamal.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
But I credit you guys in that two thousands for
kind of building that foundation, because the Clipper fan base
wasn't shipped.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Before you begin the beginning of our rookie year. Nasty.
It was nobody.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
I was like, what was the semi pro the Flint
the Flint Tropics.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Hey, I hate my fucking staff. Who did this? I didn't.
It was nobody in that motherfucker. But we started feeling
up to by the end of the year, we started
feeling up the Lord. Yeah, and you know it went
from there.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
They was like the Flint Tropics at first, about eighteen
people in the stands.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Like but but people like Kadem Hardison, Penny.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
Penny Marshall, Yeah, you had to.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Like there was like old faithfuls that we seen every
game they was in their rapping for I just guaranteed
to get the kids from Penny Marshall on their lips.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Remember the one thing I did love though, is just
La loved y'all. Yeah, La loved you and Q and
that whole team, but particularly you and Q kind of
stood to the front of what the Clippers stood for.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
At that time. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's just like,
you know, us celebrating. They kind of put the label
on kind of put the label on us. That's why
folks kind of rock with it.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
In two thousand and four, you started the Purpose Score
with Chris Evans aka Captain American Scott Johansson.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
The movies about kids that find out the way to
cheat on the sat is based on Young Stack. Can
you talking about it?
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Yeah? I didn't even really want to do that movie,
like to be real, but you I ain't want to because,
like I said, country boy, La is so busy and
it's such a different world. Like soon as the seasons though,
with I was on the first thing, smoking back home
home to kind of get that that normal sit in
(43:25):
the yard, play some spades, you know what I'm saying,
Just chill. So I had to go back to La
to do the audition, you know what I'm saying. So
my agent trying to get me to go back. He
was like yes for this amount of money and so forth.
And I'm like, yeah, I'm cool. I don't really want
to do it. He was like, nah, you need to
do it. He's a big producer, is a big fan
of yours. He needs you to do it. So I
(43:48):
flew back to La I came and I just bullshit
at the audition like yeah, what you want? We read
about this by They all right, and I'm out. He
called you back a few hates later, like yeah, you
got the part. He was like, but you gotta go
to Vancouver for like a month and a half and
shoot your part. So it's like it's gonna take my
sum away. So I flew to Vancouver and stayed in
(44:10):
Vancouver for about about a month and a half and
I did the movie. Like when I was out there,
Holly Berry was doing the movie. They was doing. That
was the first Jason Versus Freddy. They was doing that
out there. A lot of production was out there, especially
with Paramount, and yeah I pulled it off. Yeah it
(44:33):
gotta be the right role. Yeah, it gotta make sense,
the right production, like you know, like that was Paramount.
It was first, like the Red Carpet was laid all
the way out. They very professional, had a ball, you
know what I'm saying. With them with the scarlet was
like the youngest one she was like she was like
seventeen or sixteen or something like that. But Chris, everybody
(44:59):
else they was it was cool, you know what I'm saying.
And I was a I was big on what was
it the Superman shows? Mar No, it wasn't Marvel. It
was a small Ville. So the producer of Smallville was
the producer of the movie, So you know, I was
(45:21):
watching small Ville, so you know we related on that end.
So it was it was real dope. You know, I'm
glad I did it now because you know, my kids
get to get a big kick out of it. Uh,
other people get a kick out of it. We did
Van Wilder dope, right, Yeah, Yeah, we did Van Wilder too.
That was dope. We did art lists. Uh, we did
(45:45):
one on one with Kyle Pratt. You know what I'm
saying that just being out here in l A, like,
everybody who picked us was like, yeah, I'm a big
Clipper fan, so they asked us to come and do it.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
I just remember every time I went to Fox Hills
sometimes somehow I saw this nigga every time I went
to Fox.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
Hills just he was just happen to be in fox
heals himy q Uh.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
We used to mess with the shoe store because you
know they and are selling joints and me and q
A being there with some Jeordans that they don't got.
Rook was in Fox Hills Moms too, for Rooke was
in Fox Hills Mall. Roof was in Fox Hills too,
So you know you're definitely gonna get that good Walker,
you know what I'm saying. Walker and them pro Club Walker,
Pro Club, that good Walker and they had a spot
(46:26):
up there. We used to eat it all the time,
the little noodles. Oh in the food court. Yeah. They
scrave it up the fire. Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
They used to fry it and put it all stick
all around the fire. Then they straight your plate.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
Yeah that might still be there, all right, Quick hitters
man first team to come to mind. Let us know
top five big man dunkers of all time? Big man
dunkers or you were a big man though he was sixteen,
so you was in the big man category.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Two. Uh well, Kemp, Yeah, I would say Blake Griff,
Aaron Gordon special pick.
Speaker 4 (47:03):
What about the dude that was drafted right in front
of you?
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Stro Miles Miles Stro? Who else?
Speaker 4 (47:11):
What about you with me? And I mean I don't
see why not?
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Yeah, I think I'm didn't you leave the league in dunks? Now?
I was behind shot close shack, Yeah, you was right
up there. Well, I put me in as you should,
as you should. One album on repeat Right now, I've
been listening to the Kendrick gn X.
Speaker 3 (47:33):
Shout out g X, Shout out the boy too though,
shout out Drake Wings Them niggas ain't paying us for nothing,
shout out.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Both of them. Guilty I got. I had a future
little mixed little playlist that I made my future future, my.
Speaker 4 (47:49):
Guy Pluto, guilty pleasure.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
I don't know. I got old man.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
That's really you don't feel guilty about it no more?
Speaker 1 (48:00):
Oh childhood crush? Who was your childhood crush coming up?
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Man?
Speaker 1 (48:05):
The Longe Holly Berry, uh, the short hair chicking total
Jada Picket. You know there's a lot of it's long Listen.
We had a good era coming up.
Speaker 4 (48:19):
We had to look at it coming We had a
lot to look at. What was it like meeting? Because again,
I know your personality.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
You're not.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
You don't really fan out. But what was it like
meeting the stars in La that you kind of seen
growing up?
Speaker 1 (48:31):
It was crazy. Neil Longe actually stayed right down the
street from me when I moved up Marina Dale, right
seeing her walk by, like, man, that's near. Long couldn't be.
But yeah, everybody was. You got some sugar. Everybody was cool.
You know, I really ain't a big starstruck person like
(48:53):
it gotta be certain people like Mike Jordan's Mike Jack
five dinner.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Guess that are you plus five having a nice dinner
with some cannabis and some cocktails.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
I love to have dinner with Tupac. I love to
have dinner with Biggie. I love to sit down with Obama.
I love to sit down with Mike Jack and Muhammad Ali.
So I just knew he was gonna throw moms at
the table. I just knew he was gonna throw moms
at that table.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
Sir, if you could see one person on this show,
who would it be? But you have to help us
get your answer on the show. I got to help
to Yeah, you just said.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
I'm working for you, Now you work for me, Nigga,
I love to see on y'all show. That'll be dope.
It's two people I think. I think Mike Jordan would
be be a dope. I'm gonna keep text us. I'm
gonna keep texting on your show. I think jay Z
will be a dope person. Will We'll be hon it. Man.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
We appreciate your time and definitely just wanted to give
you your flowers again. I saw your journey. You're younger
than me, but you were ahead of me and be
able to see what you did for the game and
unfortunately how it had to end. But the way you
hit rock bottom where we were able to reinvent yourself
and like you said, for your kids, for your family,
what you and Q were doing. Now, you guys are
the real ojs of this ship. You know, you guys
(50:21):
came before us and kind of showed us what to do,
and then we kind of came in and you know,
inspired a lot of other people. But we owe you
guys a lot for kind of laying that blueprint and
just really proud of you.
Speaker 4 (50:31):
Man.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Like I said, it's a lot of people don't make
it out of the shit you went through. I mean,
these people got the kind of the PG version of
what you had to bring yourself out of. But knowing
you for a long time and knowing where your heart
is and what kind of man you are, man, it
just makes me proud to say that, you know, you're
a brother, man and we appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Man. Also, also let me let me touch on that too.
Speaker 3 (50:48):
You know, people always give us our props on the
podcast space and being creatives, but y'all was one of
the first to do.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Y'all, y'all somebody who inspired us for you.
Speaker 3 (50:57):
So I said, so, we want to give your props
up that space because a lot of people tend to
give us our problems.
Speaker 4 (51:02):
Did be in this space, didn't. I just say that.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
I'm just saying a lot of people, a lot of
people this, This is what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (51:07):
Oh to me, a lot of people give us our
problems everywhere we go and to try to give us
a popase like we started it. But we gave it
to y'all. Yeah, we we know where we've seen it first.
You know what I'm saying. So I just wanted to
clarify that on our podcast while you're here.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
I just say, man, everything been great for me ever
since I stopped hanging around Jackson. Been all uphill since then.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Yeah, for sure. House hold up, bro, we gotta give you,
We gotta give you. It's a parting gifts man should
that's a rad man. Give it up for Darius Miles, Sir.
Speaker 3 (51:38):
My brother black attack. Nobody I hate more than him.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
He said.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
My life, my life has been so much better since
I was worst friend.
Speaker 3 (51:46):
It's the worst friend I've ever had in my life.
His name is Darius Miles. He's the only person that
calls me with insults and hangs up.
Hosts And Creators
Stephen Jackson
Matt Barnes
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