Michelle Obama on Presidential Pressure, Caitlin Clark vs. Angel Reese & Michael Jordan Stories

Former First Lady Michelle Obama and her brother, former college basketball coach Craig Robinson, sit down with Matt and Stak for a rare, unfiltered conversation. From growing up on the South Side of Chicago to navigating life on the biggest stage in the world, the siblings share how family, values, and hoops shaped their journey. Michelle shares powerful stories about the moments that defined her, the challenges that tested her, and the people who inspired her along the way. Craig offers his perspective as both her brother and a leader in the game, sharing personal memories and unforgettable moments—including one with Michael Jordan. This is All The Smoke at its finest: authentic, inspiring, and filled with stories you won’t hear anywhere else.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
M m mm hmmmm mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome back to All the Smoke. We got a very
special episode Jack. Last time we were in DC, we
got a chance to sit down with the former Vice President,
Kamala Harris. Now we're back in DC, yep, and we
got some very special guests. We got a chance to
sit down with Craig Robinson on Unplugged. Man was that
about a year ago? And he brought his little sister

(00:45):
today I did he Welcome to the show. Ms. Michelle
Obama and Craig Robinson, thanks for having me. Another legendary episode,
so we get a crossover for our fans. We got
a chance to sit down on their show yesterday and
had an amazing outside of norm our normal scope type

(01:09):
of conversation. So you guys, make sure you guys check
that out. We'll let you know when that's dropping. And
then to now today they paid the favorite back and
it's All the Smoke time.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yeah, we on your rice.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yes, indeed, we already had a violator, but we got
to keep a PG Crystal sat so we can't talk
about that. But Jack, we got let's start with a
boxing question.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
Oh boxing.

Speaker 5 (01:28):
We heard back in the day that y'all had a
couple of squabbles.

Speaker 6 (01:32):
Oh yeah, yeah, so who's the most known top.

Speaker 4 (01:36):
She always got to win. She always got to win
the fights.

Speaker 7 (01:41):
So her backstory is everyone that my dad was a boxer. Okay,
not professionally, but he boxed in high school and boxing
the army, and he.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
Bought us boxing gloves.

Speaker 7 (01:54):
Well, I should say Santa Claus got us boxing gloves
for Christmas one year.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Make that clear.

Speaker 5 (01:59):
That was it?

Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, and uh, we just crushing dreams here.

Speaker 5 (02:04):
Don't do that. I got no way.

Speaker 6 (02:08):
I blame you for that, Claus, too much time to pass.
Tell your kid a white man coming down here. Uh,
you work too hard. Created We're not doing that at
my house.

Speaker 7 (02:25):
So my dad taught us how to box, and we
used to practice with each other, but I was always
practicing on defense.

Speaker 4 (02:33):
He didn't want me to hit her. She can hit me.

Speaker 7 (02:36):
So she really won all of the boxing squabbles we had,
and then when we were fighting for real, she'd win
all the arguments too.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Sounds like she's undefeated.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
Well that was the beauty of our dad. Uh, anything
he did, I did, so I learned right along with him.
He was going on at a box I learned at
a box. If you were learning how to pitch, I
was learning how to catch. I was right there. I
was his little shadow. It's like me too, I can
do it too. And then that got me ready because
we had two of our favorite cousins were boys, yes,

(03:10):
and they were about the same age, so I was
really the only girl and I love those I love
that time.

Speaker 4 (03:18):
But we would all box, all box with each other.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
And I would still beat them, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:23):
Because they weren't told not to hit her. She was
fighting them.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, there you go, so you got her ready. Both
you guys are very obviously impressive journeys and jobs leading
up to where we are now the podcast space Craig,
I know you jumped in in a while. You guys
now have something together? What interest did you guys and
made you guys want to come together as a brother
sister duo and have your guys to show?

Speaker 5 (03:45):
You know?

Speaker 3 (03:45):
It was first of all our team suggested it. You know,
we've got higher ground our production company, we have an
audio division, and our team was like, you know, it'd
be good to have really foundational always on show, you know,
And I'm sitting around looking like, yeah, who were gonna
get and they were like, how about you, Like Craig

(04:07):
had been podcasting, and so I said, Okay, if it's
gonna be fun, I'll do it. And so they were like,
why don't you do it with Craig. I was like,
that would be fun. And around the time we started
doing it, our mom was sick, you know, so we
were in the process of kind of mourning her loss.

(04:28):
And you know, the thing when you lose your last
parent is you really are it? You know, for me
and Craig, of our immediate family, our nieces, nephews, we're it.
We're the elders. So this has also been kind of
a good way for us to force continuous communication. You know.
We did a podcast when before my mother died. We

(04:51):
just did a special episode around becoming in the Light.
We carried my two books and we did a show
with my mom. Oh really the three of us talking
about childhood and parenthood. And that was sort of the
beginning of it. So the notion that we can keep
this going, still being conversation with each other is a

(05:11):
real gift and kind of attribute to our mom and dad, and.

Speaker 7 (05:16):
I get to see my little sister more often this way,
you know, I'm seeing her once a month now where
it was only big holidays. And by the way, today's
Mom's birthday. Oh God, happy birth So happy birthday.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
I was so busy today.

Speaker 7 (05:30):
Yeah, so this is means a lot for you all having.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
Us on and well, obviously condolences for the loss of
your month. I lost my mom too, and that's how
Jack and I actually really became close. He got traded
to our team. He had a historical run in the
very beginning of the next season. My mom was diagnosed
November first with four cancers, all in stage four and
died November twenty seven, So within twenty six days she
was gone, and Jack was there for me daily. But

(05:57):
I wanted to ask you guys. Obviously it's been on
my eighteen years for me and there's not a day
that passes. What has that process been like because obviously
we'll touch a little bit later, but your dad lost
his battle with MS nearly thirty years ago. Yeah, and
as you said, you guys are the last two kind
of standing. So what was that journey like for you
guys individually? Obviously being able to communicate together as important,
but what was your journey like individually when you lost

(06:19):
your mom.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, luckily we had a special year together. You know,
my mom was eighty six. She was in good health mentally,
but you know, just her body was breaking down. So
you know, there were signs that she had some health challenges,
even though she worked out all the time, she would travel,

(06:40):
she would you know, it's just that age was catching up.
So we had clues that you know, we got to
make the most of our time. So the last time
my mom got really sick, she was with me, with
us in our home in Hawaii, and I would still
have to force her to come and stay awhile because
my mom was feared independent. You know, she lived with

(07:02):
us for eight years at the White House, but she
did it kicking and screaming. Not because she didn't love us,
but she really believed that she raised us. You go on,
you have your life, you're with your husband. She loved Barack,
you have your wife, she loves Kelly. But she believed
in you know, grown people having their own household. And
I was like, well, the White House is kind of big, mom,

(07:24):
so you're not going, you know, going to be infringing.
So she always resisted being up in our space. But fortunately,
when she got sick, she was with me, and she
had to stay longer because she was in and out
of the hospital. I was able to care for her,
you know, spend that time getting her nurses, making sure,
you know, changing her, washing her, all those sort of

(07:46):
special things that I didn't get to do for her
because we didn't live in the same cities. And so
I saw it as a gift that I got those
months with her, and in that process we were kind
of saying goodbye almost through it all. I remember I
shared this on another podcast that you know. One day,

(08:07):
me and Mom were sitting on the couch in the
guest house where she was staying on our property, and
I was just holding her hand watching Judge Judy or
something like that, and she leaned over and she said, man,
I was quick. And I said, what do you mean
and she said, life, you know, And that kind of
that stuck with me because my mother was always one

(08:30):
of those people who was not afraid of death. She
didn't want us mourning her. But you realized at that
time that she felt life was that quick. She wasn't ready,
you know, life was too good, you know, and you
think you're gonna be ready, but you realize that you know,
when you've got a good life and you're surrounded by
the people you love, you've wanted to go on. So

(08:52):
you know that time helped me in a way that
I couldn't ever imagined more her loss and for me.

Speaker 7 (09:01):
We lived about ninety minutes for my mom, so we
could take the train down and go see her.

Speaker 4 (09:07):
And we would go. As she got older and became
a little bit more.

Speaker 7 (09:13):
Unhealthy I won't say unhealthy, but as she aged and
must have more problems, we were down there like once
a week, and sort of the same thing when we
talk about stuff. The thing I would like people to know,
both as getting those of us who are getting older
plus the young folks out there, is my mom always
talked about dropping dead for like twenty night.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
It's like, you better drop it and get your life
together because when I dropped dead, you know.

Speaker 4 (09:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (09:41):
So she would say, when our dad died, don't mourn,
don't mourn too much. He knew you loved him, and
you all knew he loved you, and that's.

Speaker 4 (09:52):
All you really want.

Speaker 7 (09:55):
And so she always made sure that all of us
Nish and I, our kids knew that she loved them.

Speaker 4 (10:04):
She was a very loving grandmother, and.

Speaker 7 (10:08):
So when the time came, it was It's never easy,
as you guys know, but it was easier for us
because she prepared us. And I try to do the
same thing with my children, like I try to tell
them I love them all the time, how proud I
am of them, and it just.

Speaker 4 (10:28):
And you don't get over it. I think about my father.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
I think Dad's death was harder.

Speaker 4 (10:33):
It was harder because it came out of nowhere and
we were still.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
Young, even though he was battling within mass. It was
one of those things like you know, he was going
to work one day and a few weeks later, you know,
that was that. And for whatever reason, probably because of
the you know, you can't prepare, you know, when you
get that diagnosis, and for some reason, that hits me

(10:56):
harder than my mom, right, because our dad died before
were a lot of things. He didn't get to walk
me down the aisle, he got to meet Avery, your
oldest son, and he Avery was alone, so he didn't
meet any of his fans. He didn't see he didn't
see the fruits of all of us, all of his

(11:18):
hard work, even though he you know, he always knew
we were special, right, he was that dad that told
us every day, you know, you got the light glowing
within you. But it would have been nice for him
to see all that, you know.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah, yeah, you spoke in your book about obviously his
battling MS, but really kind of keeping it to hisself
and and keeping life as normal as possible. What did
you guys learn from kind of his strength through the
process and during his journey.

Speaker 7 (11:52):
It was almost as if we didn't even notice he
had MS while because he was such a powerful figure
in our family, Like he was the person that everybody
came to for advice, even people who are older than him.
So my grandfather on my mom's side always confided in

(12:12):
my father, And so it got to a point and
he got up and went to work every day.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
You know, he started with.

Speaker 7 (12:20):
A cane when we were young. He walked with a limp,
then it went to a cane. Then he had crutches,
then he had the crutches that wrap around your arms,
and finally before he died, he had a van that
you sort of had to use a rascal to get in.
But he went to work every day and he was
always on time, so he would prepare so nobody ever

(12:42):
had to wait for him. So it never felt like
he was disabled, but we knew he was disabled, and
you're right, Matt, he kept it to himself. And but
we were living in a time where I'm sure you
guys remember these days you only went to a doctor
if you got sick, and you went to the emergency room.

(13:04):
That's how we had healthcare. We didn't have a family doctor,
so he rarely went to get checked on. And having
said all of that, we were still surprised when he
died and it hit.

Speaker 5 (13:17):
It hit me.

Speaker 4 (13:18):
It hit both of us so hard, and.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
I think, I what I don't do is take my
physical being, my health for granted. Yeah, I mean, you know,
to see my father, who you know was he was.
He contracted in us in the prime of his life.
So this He was an athlete, he was a swimmer,
he was a boxer, he was a cool dude, he

(13:43):
was a jazz dude. You know. To go from that
to have an unexplained loss of the use of your legs,
that that stands out for me even now. That's why
I work out. That's why you know I pick up
a tennis racket. That's why you know, we're a family
of sports and movement because we saw our father miss

(14:05):
out on that. So I don't I don't take it
for granted. I also think what we learned from him
is not withholding like you know, there was strength in that.
But we got into some arguments about the fact that
my dad wasn't like fighting to find answers. You know,

(14:25):
it's like, well, why don't we why don't you go
to a physical therapist. Why don't you you know, look
at you know, roll yourself in a research study. I
mean that that that stoicism ye also kept him from
finding perhaps some other uh therapies that would have made
his life easier. So that strong black man kind of

(14:49):
I got it thing. You know, we don't know what
the outcome might have been, so fighting for health care,
you know, having converse stations about childhood obesity. I mean
when I think about kind of the things I took
up as first Lady, the kind of things that we
talked about in the White House, A lot of that
has to do with your your health is not guaranteed, uh.

(15:13):
And so you know, I think that there's a part
of me that tries to push against that. With my brother,
all the black men in my life, I want them
to be super conscious. I don't want them to think
that that strength, you know, I don't want that strength
to put them in the grave.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yeah, my heardheaded co host just went through something similar,
didn't you.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
Okay, hardhead, what'd you do?

Speaker 5 (15:38):
Uh? Well, I got here buy a car too.

Speaker 6 (15:41):
What in just years of playing basketball and my body
was acting up.

Speaker 5 (15:46):
I should have been went to the doctor and got checked.

Speaker 6 (15:49):
I'd felt something in my help, so I decided to
go and he told me aboud have showed up. Two
months later. I needed a new hip and screw. So
it was a minor surgery that is able to that.
He went through my back and is able to fit
to my tear in my hip, had assist on my spine,
some stuff that I need to clean up from sports
all these years, and just been dodging the doctor just
like your father. I'm all right, I got it, and
I really have that attitude. But this was a This

(16:12):
definitely woke me up.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (16:13):
Yeah, because I'm you know, I've never been through sergey
or nothing like that.

Speaker 7 (16:16):
And I will tell you now, as having been in
the sports realm as a coach and as a front
office guy. You guys train yourselves to play through pain
and that is not a good thing. And so get in,

(16:37):
get your baseline blood work done.

Speaker 5 (16:41):
I was.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
Talking.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Well, I'm talking so we don't have to experience the
same stuff.

Speaker 7 (16:49):
I'm talking because I know I was well. I was
thirty seven thirty eight before I had a whole physical done.
That wasn't a sports physical. Cool, just checking to make
sure everything your joints and everything are working. And you
you get a baseline blood work done, and then from

(17:09):
then on there's so much technology now they can help
you predict avoid a lot of stuff.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
You know, I got my frost, I got a call
be coming up, and I'm not happy with it, but
I can do it.

Speaker 5 (17:21):
I know, Yeah, ready for that one.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
It's not about being ready. You just got to do it.
It's not that put you to sleep.

Speaker 5 (17:32):
Know what's going on.

Speaker 7 (17:32):
I've had I've had enough of them that now I
don't even use the I can drive drive myself there
and drive myself home, so I don't get any any medicine.

Speaker 4 (17:43):
It's all right.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
I'm going to follow up with you when you drop
your sons off at school. I'm definitely gonna check make
sure you get.

Speaker 5 (17:52):
See.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
All right, we got that real quick before we.

Speaker 4 (17:59):
Right exactly you don't want her showing up at your.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Real quick before we transition the podcast spaces. Obviously it was,
it's used in different ways now, obviously policy driven and politically.
It's a big platform. What do you guys hope that
your fan base gets ought that you have a political podcast?
But what was your goals when you guys started this
and what do you hope that your fans get from
youtubo coming together and sharing?

Speaker 4 (18:25):
For me, I.

Speaker 7 (18:28):
I always felt like over these last years, since they've
been out of the White House, people have missed hearing
from my sisters a little bit.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
I missed hearing from some sense I didn't miss it
because she called me up all the.

Speaker 7 (18:44):
Time and I'm.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
Trying to miss it, like give me a minute to
miss So so that was That's a big part of it.

Speaker 7 (18:53):
And when me talked a little bit about why we're
doing this, and as you guys know, part of our
episode we get questions from our listeners and that is
right up our alley of just trying to help folks
give back, and it's a tribute to our parents. We
had some really cool experiences thanks to our parents. Plus

(19:17):
the lessons we've learned. We just wanted to share them
with the rest of the world. And it just it
warms my heart. Now that I'm walking through the airport
and people are like, we love your podcast. And it's
not just so when I first started this, I was like, Okay,
black women are going to come up to me now,
I'm all right, I love your podcast.

Speaker 4 (19:37):
Everybody, I mean, all.

Speaker 7 (19:39):
Kinds of people, all different genders, all kinds of races,
and it just it warms my heart. And then but
the best one is when there was a twenty three
year old with her boyfriend who came over and she said,
I absolutely love the podcast.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
And I was like, you mind me asking how old
you are? She said twenty three. I was like, you
like this, you'resed to, I know, but it's our hype.

Speaker 3 (20:06):
Guy is like, seriously, it's.

Speaker 7 (20:09):
Like, you know, because this whole room is surrounded by
young folks. I can see them enjoying your podcast, but ours,
it just felt like I feel like an old guy.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
But a lot of people are lonely, right, you know.
And we grew up in community. Uh. We grew up
not just with our immediate family, but we had cousin
which we had cousins and everybody got together every Sunday
for somebody's birthday because there were a bunch of aunts
and uncles and all we did was sit around the

(20:40):
table and talk, you know. That's how we learned our voices,
that's how we problem solved, and everybody was expected to
and everybody's wisdom was accepted, like your voice as a
seven year old, as long as it was polite, meant something.
And a lot of the learning happens in the conversation.
But if people don't have that table right, if they

(21:04):
haven't cultivated that, you know, Imo, we want that to
be a place where people come and they just feel
someway in the conversation scene, you know, and maybe they
get a little wisdom along the way, and that it's
fun too, you know. I mean, we actually play games
give people a chance to hear the unfiltered me, the

(21:26):
unfiltered us, rather than the political sort of got to
say everything right and just the right way. Can't make
a joke or else somebody's gonna think, you know, everybody
upsight tight, and it's like, well, let's all just settle down,
because that's where the learning and the familiarity, the trust
gets rebuilt. So we're having a good time just being us.

(21:47):
You know, just like you guys are.

Speaker 6 (21:49):
People watching because it's so much bad information out there.
It's refreshing to hear good information from the heart, genuine information.
So many people worried about being first and being wrong
come with the right information.

Speaker 5 (22:01):
So that's why.

Speaker 6 (22:02):
People watching, because it's refreshing to hear y'all talking to here.
Y'all give good information.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
Thank you, guys.

Speaker 6 (22:08):
Let's go Chicago outside Euclid Avenue. Yes, sir, y'all slept
in the room three inches apart your whole life. Yeah,
your husband said, y'all was the black leave it to beaver.

Speaker 4 (22:21):
That's yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:23):
That well, it's spoken from a man whose life was
upside down in so many ways. I mean, you know,
he didn't know his father grew up by racial kid
in Hawaii, you know, I mean, so his you know,
his world was was his upbringing was so completely unconventional,

(22:47):
right compared to us, And then to meet us and
to come to seventy fourth and Euclid, you know, it
felt like Okay, dinner was at six, you know, you know,
there was healthy conversation. You know, I came home from work.

Speaker 5 (23:01):
You know.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Now we were the broke leave at the Beavers, you know,
I mean we were living above our aunt. You know.
My dad was driving his deuce in a quarter, you know,
until it went into the ground.

Speaker 7 (23:15):
Yes, it was a small apartment, yeah it was. It
was really a one bedroom apartment that we converted into
two bedrooms and we used the main living room split
and made our two bedrooms together. The room that was
supposed to be the bedroom was my mother and father's bedroom,

(23:36):
and then the dining room was our living room and
our kitchen.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
We just made a house.

Speaker 5 (23:40):
We just made right.

Speaker 7 (23:43):
But I will tell you we used to do everything.
I mean, we used to hit balls in there, shoot baskets.
We thought the place was huge.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Slide down the hallway in the sock.

Speaker 5 (23:53):
Did you put the hanger on the door as a
basketball hoop?

Speaker 7 (23:57):
We put the hanger on the hoop, But before we
put the hanger on the hoop, we used the lamp
and a nerf ball as the ball in the lamp
was the basket until we forgotten left the ball in
there and Mom turned the light on it and burned up.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
I think that was you. The ledge on the door,
sit fill on the top that was Craig's first hoop right.
So the goal, my dad would put a penny on
the ledge of the door and he had to jump
and get it. And if he could jump and get it,
he could keep it right. So those were the you know,
he was.

Speaker 6 (24:36):
Growing up, growing up like that beginnings the senior sister
from South Side Chicago on the way to the White House,
what's your feelings?

Speaker 4 (24:45):
Well when it so it was sort of a progression.

Speaker 7 (24:51):
And so if you can imagine when she met Barack,
he was just a lawyer and he had just done
some community organizing. But he was just like a regular guy.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
He was just a nice young man.

Speaker 7 (25:03):
He was a nice young man. And he was at
our house for Thanksgiving early on in their relationship, early on,
and I was playing the big brother. So I was like,
come here, man, let me talk to you. So what
do you think, what do you think you're going.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
To do with this?

Speaker 7 (25:19):
My sister, well plans, you know, you're going to stick
with law. He said, well, you know, I think I
might go into politics. I was like oh, And I said, said,
you want to be like a mayor or an alderman
or something. He was like, no, No, I was thinking
maybe runs for Congress, senator maybe and then maybe even
run for president. And I was like, man, you don't

(25:43):
want to talk like that. If my aunt Gracie heard you,
she'd think you crazy.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
I don't tell too many people that at this time,
Rocket this time, how old?

Speaker 5 (25:53):
So?

Speaker 4 (25:53):
How old was it when you all met?

Speaker 3 (25:56):
He had been like twenty six twenty.

Speaker 7 (25:59):
Seven so, and I was a year younger than him,
but I didn't realize that. I just figured we were
around the same age. And I was like, you can't
say stuff like that around here. People will They'll think
you crazy.

Speaker 4 (26:14):
And lo and behold. Jump ahead, jump ahead a few
years and I'm.

Speaker 7 (26:19):
In Orlando when he gave the big speech. I'm in
Orlando for AU Nationals. I'm going recruiting. I'm at Northwest,
and I asked Bill Carmody, who's our head coach there.

Speaker 4 (26:30):
I was like, can I have the evening off Barrock's
doing his speech. He was like, of course.

Speaker 7 (26:34):
And I'm in my hotel room, shorts, T shirt, and
I'm sweating, nervous and just because I wanted him to
do well, and he knocks it out of the ballpark
and the next day people are saying he could be
he could eventually run for president of the United States.

(26:54):
It's still it's still when I think about that. It
just never it never really hit me until we were
on our way to the inaugurate to the not an inauguration,
but the election night we won in Chicago. The whole
time we're like talking like we are now. Nobody could
believe it. Even Barack to me, couldn't believe it because

(27:17):
we're sitting in the kitchen at their house waiting for
the results, and we thought, oh, this is gonna be
a late night. It's gonna be like two in the
morning before we find out. We had just finished dinner,
so I figured it's about seven o'clock. And all of
a sudden, everybody's phone start buzzing. And you know, we
were we always kept our phones away from the table

(27:39):
when the kids were there, and we were all talking,
and everybody's phone starts buzzing, and Barack picks up his phone,
puts looks at it, and puts him back down, comes back,
sits at the table, and we're all talking and he says, well.

Speaker 4 (27:53):
Looks like we won, just like that.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
You remember that.

Speaker 4 (27:56):
The way he said it was so cool. It was
like I knew I was gonna win, you.

Speaker 7 (28:01):
Know, and it's still it didn't register until we were
in the motorcade going down to the to the to
the to the election election night.

Speaker 4 (28:11):
But that was a long story.

Speaker 7 (28:13):
I wanted to tell you that story to say through
all of that, my sister's been to the same person. Really,
people just got to know how smart, how accomplished, how thoughtful,
how generous he is.

Speaker 4 (28:28):
And it's been great.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
We're getting this on tape.

Speaker 4 (28:31):
It's been it's been great to watch. It's a proud
moment for you know, a big brother.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
I spent my all my life being Craig Robinson's little sister.

Speaker 4 (28:41):
Poor thing.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
I mean, because he was mister basketball, our mister you know,
all ivy, and we went to the same college. I
came on campus and was like, oh you Gray listen
the uk LI. I'm like yeah, and I was proud
of it.

Speaker 7 (28:55):
And now when he become it was that night it
was you, Michelle Obama's brother.

Speaker 4 (29:05):
Yes, I am.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
For you. Excitement, hesitation, nervousness, Like, what's going through your
mind because this is a huge shift, the first in
the history, and it's just a crazy history. But what
are your inner thoughts during that time?

Speaker 3 (29:21):
I mean it was really all over the place. And
you know it's not just that night. I mean it's
the run of the presidency is a two year process.
I mean, you know, you start and I first of all,
you start announcing, and that's a battle, right because your
husband tells you that he's going to do something that's
going to fundamentally change your life. And my first reaction

(29:45):
was hell, No, No, Why why would we want to
do that? We have We're the beavers, we're the cleavers.
We're doing just fine. We live in a lovely house,
we're near family, girls are good. Why would you want
to go and do something that crazy? You know, people,
you know, It wasn't that I didn't believe in him.
I didn't believe America was ready and so much of

(30:07):
I knew he was talented. I knew he was gifted.
I knew he would be phenomenal. I knew he had
that perfect combination of sharp intellect, ability to connect, the charisma,
all this stuff that we miss.

Speaker 4 (30:21):
He had it.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
So my first reaction was no. And it took my brother,
it took a whole lot of people to convince me that,
you know, when somebody has that kind of passion for something,
you know, I didn't want to be the one to
say no, And then I didn't want fear to guide
my decision, because that's what it was all about. It.

(30:45):
It wasn't that I didn't believe in him. I was
just scared, and so I had to think long and hard, Well,
if I wasn't married to him, I would want somebody
like him to run. He's the person that we say,
so I can't be selfish and be like I want
all to myself. So there was that part of it.
And then, you know, just like anything, I'm competitive, so

(31:06):
we're gonna run, We're gonna win, I'm gonna help, I'm
gonna be good at this, So then you just throw
yourself in, you know. Campaigning in Iowa, giving speeches. Some
of it was fun, some of it was crazy. A
lot of it uplifting because we were in parts of
the country where you would think that a black couple

(31:26):
with the name Obama coming through would just be turned away.
But the truth of our nation that I want to
remind people is is that folks find it hard to
hate up close. And when you get to know people
and you're sitting in there kitchen tables, and they're talking
like we're talking. You know, you could see people start
to melt almost you know, you hear our story, how

(31:49):
we grew up, how Barack grew up, and you get
a chance for people to unpack and get beyond race.
Watching that transformation was empowering, right, I mean, it's hopeful.
You know. It was all the things you want to
believe about this country and we were seeing it, right.
So there was that jubilation, and then there was just

(32:10):
the when they started going after us. Now I'm pissed.
You know you're going after me, You're going after my husband.
You now take this thing that's really good and you
play with it. And that was true on the Democratic side,
hand on the republic Went side. That was true for
white leaders, and it was true for black leaders too.
A lot of people were disappointing, a lot of people,

(32:31):
you know, let you down. But then in the end
it was just like by the time you get two
years in, you want to win, you know, you want
to get it done, and you're ready for the work.
So it was a roller coaster, and at the core
of it was how am I going to raise these

(32:52):
little girls and make sure that they're saying through it.
You know. I was like, we can get through anything,
but what would this do to them? You know, because
I wanted them to come out on the other end
as two people I would know and recognize. And that's
what having our mom move with us to the White House,
you know, I mean I Barock and I you know,

(33:15):
we're solid parents. But I didn't want the girls to
come home to that big house to strangers when we
were working or traveling. You know, there's just something about
you know, that house is like they're Butler's and florist
and ushers and all this stuff. And I was like,
this is not normal. We you know, we grew up

(33:37):
sharing a bedroom. It's like, my kids cannot think that
this is normal. So the one way to make sure
that that was true was to have them come home
to Marian Robinson sitting there going, Okay, you know what
you're supposed to do. You ain't cute, get your homework done,
you know, plus that dose of I love you. I
love you more than anybody. My mom got in the

(33:59):
car every day in their motorcake and rode to school
to drop them off because I didn't want them riding
the school with a bunch of security, and I wanted
them to be in the car just even if nothing
was said, just just have your grandmother there. And she
was that for us, and that gave me the security that, Okay,

(34:19):
we'll get through this, you know. So it was, it was,
it was all of it, all of the feelings.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
You guys grew up on the top floor living above
Aunt Robbie with her music school. The South Side is
the epicenter for you know a lot of soul music,
Curtis Mayfield, earth Wind and fire Shylights MANI rip attend
to name a few. How instrumental was music in your guys'
upbreaking and still today.

Speaker 7 (34:42):
Huge, huge, and it I mean it started with our grandfather.
So before everybody had houses with speakers in every room,
and he had Jerry rigged his whole house. Every room
had a speaker. Now there were wires and they were
matching and they was a speaker.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
It was.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
The sound was great.

Speaker 5 (35:08):
It was before.

Speaker 4 (35:11):
Surround sound.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
He had two speakers, reeled a real tape.

Speaker 4 (35:15):
Two turntables before people knew what that was about.

Speaker 7 (35:20):
And he was a jazz officionado, So we grew up
listening to jazz. So he had a jazz collection our
father had a jazz collection.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
And this was our grandfather's name. We called him Southside
just by the way. He was a carpenter south Side.

Speaker 4 (35:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
He played music twenty four to seven, I mean, And
that's how my mother, this is my mother's father, six
o'clock when he woke up, speaker's blasting, lasting everybody's room bedroom,
you asleep, You learn how to sleep with the music.

Speaker 7 (35:54):
We drive up to his place and you know, Park
Street Park, and so you drive up you can hear
two houses down the music on, and it's it's it's
good jazz music.

Speaker 4 (36:09):
And you know, he.

Speaker 7 (36:11):
Ended up not being able to hear before he died
because he played his so loud.

Speaker 4 (36:16):
But we, you know, we grew up.

Speaker 7 (36:19):
We learned how to play different instruments, like the fludophone first,
and then the piano.

Speaker 4 (36:27):
And recorder and and different things.

Speaker 7 (36:29):
And unfortunately sports hit my life, so my music tailed off.
But me, she kept taking lessons and she used to
play the piano for me on game days.

Speaker 4 (36:42):
When I come home from school, we had a ritual.

Speaker 7 (36:45):
I get my pregame, snack, do my homework, go on
to couch. She'd start playing the piano. I'd take a
nap she played until I part, she did her part.

Speaker 4 (36:59):
I mean every game days that's live music.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
I mean Whenmally go home and listen like the rest,
like you got live music, live music music.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah, yeah, it was.

Speaker 4 (37:10):
A big part.

Speaker 7 (37:11):
And then that just that just sort of extrapolated to
whatever was was was hot.

Speaker 4 (37:17):
On the radio. And we were a big Motown house.

Speaker 7 (37:22):
We had the we had the album set called the
sixty four Motown Hits. It was like the greatest hits
at that time out of Motown. So it had the
Jackson five on Spokey Robin.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
I mean all that was our favorite multi set album.

Speaker 7 (37:39):
I mean we would put that thing on and where
you could stack the albums and it would just play
one side and then you turn it over in the
next all four would play. It was like hours of music.
And so music has always been a part. And now
you know, uh, I go to their house and they
got music playing all the time. You come to our
house is music playing all the time.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
So I get it. I'm the same way you guys
went in Chicago go through an unfortunate transformation, the white
flight and loss of manufacturing jobs, let the gangs, gun violence,
crack epidemic, how did Chicago change while you guys were
there to what it is today.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
When we were little, you know, there were white people,
you know, I mean it was as plain as that. Yeah,
south Shore it was a heavy Jewish community. We lived
there because my aunt Robbie was a music teacher and
a teacher. Her husband was a pullm importer and he
was retired. He was older but had a good pension,

(38:37):
so they earned enough, never had kids, so they could
buy a home. So they were probably among the first
black people in South Shore to buy homes right and
to start integrating because they could afford it. And you
can see the transition in our school pictures, you know,
you know the end of the year picture when I
was in kindergarten, my kindergarten a picture. There was Faizelle,

(39:03):
There was Soapa knot consipant. There was Susan Yaker, there
was Rachel Dempsey. These were all kids that lived around us.
They were my friends. I went to their houses, we played,
and it seemed like after first grade it was like
the lights went out and the white people were gone.
I mean it was like somebody called and said get

(39:25):
out because of the like the next year and it
registered to me later on, But as a kid, you're
just like, oh, they don't live here anymore. You know,
nothing was said. It was just they all disappeared, and
so went a lot of other little things, like the

(39:45):
park was a little less down the street, swings didn't
get replaced. You know, the gas station on the corner,
you know, started carrying lickory. You know, the liquor store
became more the liquor store than not. Craig was more
of the street dude because of basketball. I mean I
stayed around the block and played, but you went up

(40:07):
and you know, got your and my dad was very
clear on you need to go to the courts and
learn how to play with everybody. So you saw more
of how the name I.

Speaker 4 (40:18):
Saw the game. Yeah, I could see it from that standpoint.

Speaker 5 (40:21):
You know.

Speaker 7 (40:21):
Every now and then there'd be a couple of white
guys up at the basketball court and all of a sudden,
it wasn't But to Misha's point, it was just like, oh,
well they moved and somebody moved in, and we just
were friends with the people who moved in, you know.

Speaker 4 (40:34):
But it was you could really see a change at the.

Speaker 7 (40:38):
Park because there was this huge softball league that happened there.
Sixteen inch, no gloves, guys are playing. It was sort
of like a beer league, but it was completely integrated
when we first lived there. So you'd have some all
white teams, some all black teams, some mixed teams, and
what they had in common. They played off and afterwards

(41:00):
they drank beer and were telling jokes along the streets
until the lights went out, and then all of a sudden,
it's they were all black teams. And to Nish's point,
the park didn't get cleaned up as much.

Speaker 4 (41:16):
There were more vagrants. It was just.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
Struggled more.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
The school had.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
Had more disruption in the classroom, all the things that
would happen, and slowly but surely, white folks were moving
further south into the southern suburbs, and that, you know,
as I would come to study, Oh that was literally
white flight, you know. And the point that I make
two people who were fleeing, it's like you all were

(41:44):
fleeing from us. You know. That's just sort of the
crazy thing, like the kleavers, you know, because that's all
we you know, we mowed our lawn, planet flowers. We
were a students. Most of the kids around us were
the same parents went to work, people had jobs, but
because of the color of our skin, they were afraid

(42:06):
of something. And I you know, the point is, that's
what we have to realize, is the people in this country,
what are we running from? You running from us? You know,
you're running from Michelle and Craig and for the people
who were still running. Nine times out of ten, you
were running from a decent family with good values, trying

(42:28):
to get ahead just like you. This country, these neighborhoods
don't belong to anybody, you know, we're all trying to
get it together, you know.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
But yeah, you ran into a someone named DEDI in
the day you gained the respect.

Speaker 7 (42:51):
I like how you frame that well.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
I was kind of always like I like playing by myself.
I like my imagination. I like my dolls, I like
my space. We didn't have much space, you know, so
I was that kid for a while. Craig was always
I'm going out, I'm playing He's out in the neighborhood,
right And there was just something in me that was like, wow,

(43:18):
you know, the neighborhood's messy. You know, other little kids
can be messy, you know, I just know this sad, friends,
but you know, Craig was already out there, but there
was something in me. I think, Mom, it's like, you
need to get out of this house and go be
a regular kid and play right. And so there was
this neighborhood across the alley from us that didn't have

(43:40):
a street, in the middle of a bunch of houses
with a sidewalk. A lot of kids were there, a
lot of all our friends were over there, and it
was a good place to play because you could go
in between houses and not be in a street. And
you know, it's just the regular ole. You're kind of
the new girl, but I'm not because I'm Craig's little sister,
you know. And you you know, there was one girl

(44:03):
that decided she wanted to test me, right, just like
who are you? You talk like white girl? What about this?
And what about that? And it's like, mm, you know,
I'm either gonna have to deal with this or I'm
gonna have to debt it right in the vernacular. Uh,

(44:24):
you know, that would just sort of like you You know,
that's probably why I didn't want to have to go out,
you know, because you have to go out, you have
to be out, you have to earn your spot out,
and I was like, do I really want to do that?

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Do I need it?

Speaker 3 (44:37):
Do I need it?

Speaker 4 (44:38):
Beneath her?

Speaker 3 (44:40):
But then I had I like my friends. I like
playing piggy and tag and softball. The cute boys were
out there, Double Dutch was out there. I was like,
d d is not going to stop me from being
out here. So I figured there was one time that
she was giving me a little bit too much lip,
and I just decided then and there to punch her

(45:00):
in the face. And we were fighting. Yeah, And it
was that. I know, I took her by surprise because
while he saw that side of me inside nobody, I
was a very lovely young lady. You know. All the
parents liked me because it was like, Hi, it's such
and such. But I did punch her in the face.

(45:22):
Those bots and skins pulled off on Dadi. We fought,
you know. I think a lot of people would just
really shock. It's like, is that Michelle fighting? I was like,
can let me ht her? But after that, me and
Dady were cool, We were good.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
I'm not gonna lie. Rerounded that part three times on
the audio book. I just like really got and initially
wasn't on the Rundown. I'm reading the Rundown last like
I'm going. I want to hear the I want to really.

Speaker 5 (45:47):
Hear the side of it.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
I love it. I love it, even taking that air.

Speaker 5 (45:54):
But we have wait.

Speaker 7 (45:58):
We have to say that you, you and d D
got to be friends. We were all really good friends
that you know how it is, so the first time
you have.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
Fun, I want not to cut you off. I'm going
to one of my closest friends wedding that I played
college basketball with him. Didn't come close until we fought
to beat the brakes off of But I'm gonna be
in his wedding next week. That's how we like.

Speaker 4 (46:23):
That game with the hair is only gonna get you something.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Sometimes you got to step out and show them. So
times you got to do.

Speaker 3 (46:34):
I was an enforcer, my own waish shape and form.

Speaker 5 (46:38):
A little bit of is coming with me, So coming
with me. I can hide it.

Speaker 7 (46:45):
Craig, Yes, sir, you had a little game, a little
bit Princeton.

Speaker 6 (46:51):
Michelle wrote in the book that basketball seemed to unlock
every frontier of you.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
What does she mean when you say.

Speaker 7 (46:58):
That, Well, you guys probably can appreciate this, but it's
really hard to be one of the best at something
at a young age, because there's no way to differentiate
yourself from the other kids. And once I started to
realize I was good at basketball, that sort of gave

(47:20):
me that differentiation. And it also gave me the confidence
to do a whole lot of stuff and and and
it started with traveling away from my neighborhood to go
play against dudes who are in an other neighborhood. I
was not afraid to do that. Then I would venture
to the West side of Chicago and play in leagues.

(47:42):
And you know how what you do, you're just trying
to find guys through this competitions. Unfortunately doesn't happen enough
these days with our kids. We're too busy setting up
the games for him, right like we would just do
it on our own. And it really like I was
always a really good student, but that wasn't something that

(48:02):
people rewarded you for accolades and usually got you usually
got teased for it. But then once you know, you
hit seventh eighth grade and you can play a little bit,
then it's like, oh okay. And so I think it
helped me. It is continued to help me because even now,

(48:26):
you guys remember when we were coming along. I'm a
little older than you. Coaches didn't coach confidence. They coached discipline.
Do it my way or the highway. Nowadays, folks are
unlocking guys games by building up their confidence. And that's
what the game.

Speaker 4 (48:44):
Did for me. It built me up.

Speaker 7 (48:45):
There's no way I would walk onto the campus of
Princeton without having been a basketball player. There's no way
I wouldn't have even thought I could achieve that. But
because of the game, you learn how to work harder
on the academic side, and then next thing you know,
you're at a place that you know, you can't believe
you're there, and it changes your life.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
I think we spoke yesterday on your gother show, just
what sports used to teach you, not only the principles
in the game, but the principles for life. It used
to teach you so many life qualities that I feel
like obviously lacking in today. But I completely agree. I mean,
it just gives you the confidence and I can take
on anything. If I could do this, yeah type mentality
you with I did cook you.

Speaker 7 (49:31):
Of course, I wasn't even at your level. I was
just an ordinary player. Listen, So my first encountered in
playing in the Chicago Summer League. Now I held my
own and we weren't always guarding each other, but that was.

Speaker 4 (49:48):
Five on five hell bone. It was fine.

Speaker 7 (49:53):
But then once he retired and he was coming back,
he needed some guys who kind of knew the game
that he could sort of quietly start working out with.

Speaker 4 (50:03):
And he ended up somebody.

Speaker 5 (50:07):
Grover.

Speaker 7 (50:08):
Tim Grover knew us, and he got me John Rodgers,
who's the president of Aerial Capital Management, Ernie Duncan, who
was a former.

Speaker 4 (50:19):
Secretary of Education.

Speaker 7 (50:21):
The three of us would go kind of work do
workouts with him, and that's when he that's when he
cooked me, I mean cooked me. And it was so
funny because he was very serious about what he was doing.
Where you would think that somebody who is one of
the is like the greatest of all time, would be

(50:45):
taking it easy on some guys who are trying to
help him get in shape.

Speaker 4 (50:48):
It was not like that. And you guys know him too,
that's the greatest.

Speaker 7 (50:52):
I mean, he was working on stuff and elbow right
to the ribs. Oh okay, all right, let me be
prepared next time. Elbow to the next and then and
then finally once I got one on him where he
fooled me and I made it and I fell down
and he was like, Craig, you okay, And I said, yeah,

(51:14):
I appreciate it. He's like, I didn't get the fuck up.

Speaker 4 (51:17):
I was like, all right, I see what everybody's saying.

Speaker 5 (51:20):
Have been.

Speaker 4 (51:24):
First of all, I was, I was in fear the
whole time I was playing that he land on my.

Speaker 5 (51:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 7 (51:34):
But then then once he got in real shape, he
started bringing in real pros because we were in our
we were probably you know, that was probably in our
early thirties when that happened. So he brought in some
real athletic guys who were playing We were we were
playing three on threes and so he used us early on.

(51:55):
But it was it was a real treat, and he's
always been gracious ever since.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
You know.

Speaker 7 (52:00):
I always assumed that he didn't remember me from that.
And we were at David Stearn's funeral or memorial it wasn't.
It was a memorial in New York City and I'm
walking past and I was like, Mike, Craig Robbins.

Speaker 4 (52:18):
He's like, Craigie, I remember you messed up, you know,
how he is.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
He just is.

Speaker 7 (52:24):
His mind is as sharp as his game. But it
was a real it was it was a real treat.

Speaker 4 (52:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (52:31):
And then I ended up one one more story. When
I was the I was assistant coach at Northwestern and
I got the head coaching job at Brown. I tried
to recruit his oldest son, Marcus. Uh no, Mark, not Marcus, Marcus,
the one who's older than Marcus to go to Brown.
He ended up going somewhere Florida or something. I think
Marcus went to Marcus Florida, Central Florida, but I can't. Jeffrey, Yeah,

(52:58):
he ended up going to Illinois. I was like, man,
you bonus points. You could have come to Brown and
would have been starting the Man and Ivy League school.
But you know, not not everybody understands the big picture,
the big picture, or once the big picture.

Speaker 4 (53:12):
So it's just really neat.

Speaker 5 (53:15):
Neither one of them was good. That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
By the way, By the way, way this is so popular,
by the way, you know how you really feel? The
WNBA has been a really hot topic. You know, we
discussed off camera project you guys were potentially working on
a few years ago that I thought was great. Maybe
you guys will be able to bring that back. But
what is your guys thoughts on just the growth of

(53:40):
the league and how it's a real topic of conversation
right now. And on top of that, the ladies fighting
for I just sat down with Kelsey Plumb a few
days ago before we came out here, and their revenue
share is completely different. For those of you who don't know,
I think the NBA is a forty nine to fifty
one windows split. They get nine percent of their split.
So it's a little misinformational people.

Speaker 5 (54:00):
You're not doing this.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
You're not doing that. They want a different revenue split,
they want more, a different cut of the pie. But
what is your guys thoughts on just the growth of
the game and how it's you know, really common now.

Speaker 3 (54:10):
To I mean, they're two ways to look at it.
They've come a long way. Things have changed. There is
a league, there are stars, it's growing. There owners or
owners like the size or you know, really making the investment.
All all that's wonderful to see. But we were just

(54:32):
we just had a great conversation with Candice Parker and
to be reminded of how hard things were, you know,
playing in Russia and China getting maybe two weeks a
break on her body a season because she had to
play in two sass being pregnant, you know, in a

(54:54):
league that didn't have a maternity policy. The toll that
that's taken her body. I mean, and she's just thirty nine, right,
and she is one of the greats. The fact that
she will not experience, or did not experience, the fruits
of her outstanding athletic ability is sad. You know why,

(55:19):
because she's a woman. It's ridiculous. So you know, politically
you want to say, well, it's great they're making their way,
but you know, I say faster, better, quicker. You know,
why do women athletes have to jump through so many hurdles?
And it's not just in basketball. You know, Alison Felix

(55:41):
can tell you the same story. You know, we haven't
figured out how to recognize and pay women for their talent,
even though their name and likeness that people are making
money off of them. You know, Nike Is still uses
Alison Felix's name and likeness, but they wouldn't pay her

(56:02):
when she got pregnant. You know, women can have babies
and dunk and run fast and you know, do it
all but why are we constantly you know, third in
line for the you know, for the payoffs.

Speaker 7 (56:21):
There's just a lack of investment. You know, you guys
have been in the league. You see you see why
certain teams win a lot.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Of games start at the top.

Speaker 4 (56:31):
It's on art's at the top.

Speaker 7 (56:33):
And if there's no if there's only a couple of
really understanding, I don't want to say good other owners
who understand.

Speaker 4 (56:41):
It's like any other investment.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
You put the resources toward it, behind it, you will
it will start to grow.

Speaker 7 (56:47):
And it's just been interesting to see what has taken
it so long to start moving in that direction. I
used to think it was okay, once people start to
watch it and it'll start to grow, but it has
never been any more popular than it is now. So

(57:09):
now it's it's got to be let's let's negotiate a
fit something fair. Because when I'm with you, it was
it was in the last couple of years that I
knew it was nine percent or seven whatever, it is
nine percent and not closer to fifty percent.

Speaker 5 (57:28):
I think it's more.

Speaker 6 (57:29):
I think it's more the w n B A and
it's it's really on them because tennis get paid well,
they take care of them. Soccer girls they get played well.
I think they solely singling out these girls. That's how
I look at it, because no other people, no other
women's sport is really going through that. Yeah, you know,
Tennis they get treated great, Soccer they get treated great.
You know what I'm saying. It's just a WNBA. So

(57:50):
why is that? It's my question?

Speaker 2 (57:51):
I think too. It's also the contrast and compared to
what men are making and doing compared to what you know,
the women are doing. But one thing I think has
helped the growth of the female game of late is
the storylines. And obviously with Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese
starting and developing their storyline in college and obviously you know,
you start hearing about them in high school and then

(58:11):
their storylines really start to develop in college and to
bring all that same energy into the NBA, and I
think that was kind of an injection of just life
and support. But the one thing I don't like about
it is I feel like people feel like if you
like one, you can't like the other, Like both these
women can't. Unfortunate, they're gonna synonyms be be linked for
the rest of their careers, whether they like it or not.

(58:33):
But I also think the storyline helps both of them.
What are your guys' thoughts on kind of the either
or mentality in this.

Speaker 7 (58:39):
Yeah, Matt, I want to speak to that because I've
always said if these if it was two guys, it
would be okay to totally fine against one of them
and for the other. That verb that's what happens in sports.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
It would root, but it wasn't. Not necessarily the hate. Yes,
I feel like you.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
So.

Speaker 4 (59:01):
I thought a lot of folks hated the Celtics.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
Oh you're talking about back in with the Magic.

Speaker 4 (59:06):
Yeah, you are right on that. You are right, That's
what I mean.

Speaker 7 (59:10):
And what it's not okay for the I think I
think the storylines of a real rivalry is good.

Speaker 4 (59:19):
For the guests. Yes, and I mean the hate is
the hate.

Speaker 7 (59:25):
It's part of social media, it's part of the it's
part of society today. But I thought I have been
saying for the last I don't know, maybe ten years,
you've heard me say this that the women's game needed
real drama, not fabricated drama. You needed real drama. And
for the first time in the last couple of years,

(59:45):
you saw actual.

Speaker 6 (59:47):
Beef beefal and they started in college though I love it,
and they brought it, transferred it to the NBA.

Speaker 5 (59:53):
So that's how they get that light. So you're exactly right.

Speaker 7 (59:55):
You're exactly right, and and so use that, use that
and then tell the good stories, tell the bad said,
but use that because that's what draws people to sports,
right because you root against everybody else who's not your team.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
And the hero villain approach has always been good for
sports as well.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
And it's the real reality TV.

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
I think the tough thing is the social media elements
to it. But that's true across the board. I mean,
we've talked about this on our show. It just you know,
it just takes a normal occurrence. You know, these young
kids today, what they have to go through, what they
have to be able to withstand because social media is

(01:00:41):
such a huge part of their world. I mean, you
know there's the hate, but now the hate is in
your room, on your phone with you all the time,
and you can't, for whatever reason, tell these kids to
turn it off because they're making their living that way.
I mean that they now are expected to stay engaged.
So I think that makes it feel even worse. But

(01:01:01):
as you point out, that's happening in sports across gender.
It's just harder now to withstand other people's horrible, horrible opinions.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Yeah, I'm glad that mental health is a conversation now
because of that. And we talked a ton yesterday just
about how my approach to my kids is very mental.
It's because of you know, there's keep it. Really, there's
a lot of idiots out there with voices now, and
not everyone deserves it, but just the negative energy that's
constantly drawn on these athletes and really just people in general.

(01:01:33):
And again, that's why I feel like the conversation of
mental health is so important now, because there's just any
time you turn anything on, it's just negative, negative, negative.

Speaker 5 (01:01:43):
Marriage and relationships.

Speaker 6 (01:01:44):
Becoming the first lady playing basketball, we were blessed to
have veterans in the locker room right to kind of
give us the ropes and to not make mistakes. Becoming
the first lady, is it a og? First lady? This
is what you got to do.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
Let me tell you what I did do as being
being the first black, first black woman. I knew that
it was in common. I knew I wanted to come
in and do things differently that I you know that
I had to bring my authentic self to the role,
and there was a question of how was the country
going to respond to that. Part of my strategy was,

(01:02:28):
let me before I make changes, let me show respect
to the ogs, let me, let me let people understand
that I know the history, and I get the job,
and I get and I value what other people brought
to it. So in that vein, in my first year,
at least, I made it a point to reach out,

(01:02:49):
have lunch with, invite over every living first Lady that
was alive and could could could make the trip Number one,
because I wanted to send the message that you know,
when your family goes into the White House, regardless of
what party you're in, your family lives there right you know,
that's the house of your family. My kids have lived

(01:03:12):
longer in the White House than they've lived in any house,
so there is you know, it doesn't belong to us,
it belongs to everyone. So I didn't want a Republican
former First Lady to feel like she couldn't come back
to that house, that she wouldn't have access to it
because I was there.

Speaker 4 (01:03:33):
Because it's like.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
That that house meant something to you. And in order
to do that, you had to It was up to
me to extend the olive branch, to sit down, to listen,
to ask questions, to hear tell me how you did it,
what your challenges were?

Speaker 5 (01:03:48):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
Not everybody else did that. I haven't gotten a lot
of calls, you know, but I think that there's some
people who are looking for some OJ advice and others
who don't don't want it. I wanted it and and
I felt that it was useful, and as a result,
I felt like we had a lot of support from
other administrations, first ladies offices. It wasn't just first Lady

(01:04:13):
the first Lady, but my chief of staff was very
connected to Lord Bush's chief of staff. There are always
questions that would come up, protocol, What did you do here?
How did you handle this? I wanted my teams to
have some kind of, you know, place to go for
advice and to feel like there was a community, a camaraderie.
Not everybody, uh, you know uh has approached the job

(01:04:36):
that way, but it's it's it's that's their prerogative. That
was how I chose to approach it.

Speaker 6 (01:04:42):
When did you When did when did you tried to
put swerve and and and and Michelle Obama spin on
the White House.

Speaker 5 (01:04:50):
When did that feel come in?

Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
I think I think that was right away as soon
as yeah, yeah, because well, first of all, you know,
we ran on it was a campaign that wasn't just
me and Barack. You know, there were a lot of
people who got us there, and in every every step
we took, the question was how do we keep bringing

(01:05:13):
people along with us? You don't just get to that
house and close the doors behind you. And you know,
our motto was We're the People's House, and we wanted
the people to be defined very broadly, right. Some of
the things we would do, like even when you do
a state visit, for example, one of the things I
thought is that, okay, we have these large state dinners

(01:05:36):
where the presidents of other countries come to the White
House and it's you know, black tie, and you know,
ambassadors are invited and the top donors are invited. I
was like, well, what about everybody in the city, you know,
who's impacted by this state visit? How do we incorporate
the kids from public schools around the area. So for

(01:05:56):
every state dinner, we would do a companion taste and
invite some kids to come and sit at the tables
and see the You know, if we had entertainers come,
we do a companion event in the afternoon where the
entertainers would agree to sit down and talk to the kids.
For the opening ceremony, we would invite little kids to

(01:06:18):
come and wave and to see the every chance we got,
the question was how do we get more people here?
And then when we weren't bringing people here. For me,
it was important for me to go out, you know,
because if you're building relationships with people, you can't just
invite them to your house. You got to go to
their house shot to show that there's some respect for

(01:06:41):
your house. So off the record, for my entire time
at the I thought I was First Lady. I made
it a point to try to go to every public
high school in the DC area off the record and
to just go talk to kids, because I thought that
there was some power in the First Lady's motorcade driving

(01:07:01):
up to into Anacostia and for me walking in those doors,
usually with kids not even knowing. I'd ask them to
set aside a group of seniors or juniors, you know,
tell them that it was the superintendent or whatever, and
then I'd show up and then I'd just sit for
hours because it would take kids a second to stop
crying or to realize that it was happening.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
And my whole point was what we do is about you,
and your community is important enough that we need to
come to you too, you know. So that those were
the kind of if you want to say, obamafication of
you know, the White House. It was just opening it up.

Speaker 5 (01:07:43):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:07:44):
Music was big for us in the White House. We
had a whole array of music series ongoing. We honored
Stevie Wonder. Prince performed at the White House months before
he died. I wanted to make sure that at every
black diva that maybe would never be invited to sing
in the White House got invited. Chaka Khans sang at

(01:08:07):
the Governor's Ball, Diana Ross did an event, Janelle Monet
was dancing on tables for the South Korea. We had
a Beet R and B blowout at the end with Bell,
Biv Devaux and Poison being sung on the walls, bringing
a little flavor. And it wasn't just R and B,

(01:08:29):
but it was country, it was Broadway, it was dance.
It was theater. I did one event where we just
invited all these designers to the White House because I
was known for fashion, but I never really talked about
it in the White House. So we had a day
where we invited some of the top design students to
come to the White House for the day to meet

(01:08:51):
with Anna Wintour, to drape fabrics with you know, you know,
some of the top designers, to spend the whole day
in the White House. You know, those were some of
the things that just kept saying, this house is yours,
we are you. You belong here as much as the
hoodie dudes. And that was to me, that was the

(01:09:14):
most valuable way for us to use that space at
the time.

Speaker 6 (01:09:18):
The flyers first Lady for sure. One more question, though,
it's this funny question. Was it any Louisiana hot so
tony sassers in the White House.

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
All up and down the place?

Speaker 5 (01:09:29):
I want to hear that type.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
Well, first of all, the question is was anybody frying
chicken up in the White House? Answer was yes, yes.
At the last party that we had, the going away party,
which was full of tears, what you know, and it lasted.
Some of the parties would last till three four in
the Morris where people were really you know, enjoying themselves.

(01:09:53):
And at the last the midnight snack that was brought
out were chicken and waffles, you know, and so everybody
and that's what everybody said.

Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
Oh, yes, all this has been great. We got about
ten minutes left, so we're going to jump to quick hitters.
First thing to come to mind. Let us know, Michelle,
you had a visit. You had a very famous quote,
when they go low, we go high. We still have
to go high.

Speaker 3 (01:10:23):
You'll get there, you know. The the true answer is,
you know, no.

Speaker 5 (01:10:32):
Sometimes it was good at the moment.

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
Let's meeting where they're at now.

Speaker 7 (01:10:35):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing. Going going high
is about being strategic, right, and that's really my point.
That doesn't mean you don't feel it emotionally, that doesn't
mean you don't get angry, you know, but that means
that our response needs to be strategic and have a
goal beyond us just being mad, because that's just you know,

(01:10:57):
I don't want to waste my mad, right. So let's
you know, let's let's be thoughtful about what we say,
why we say it, what's the plan where we headed.
You know, that's what going high is.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
Gotcha.

Speaker 6 (01:11:10):
You think I got some mad ways, I'm a lot
of mad you got from somebody else. Both of you.
This question is both of you. One album you can
listen to with no skips.

Speaker 7 (01:11:27):
Oh that's easy for me. What that's the way of
the world, Earth Wind and five. I can listen to
just play the whole thing, look it over and play
the other ones.

Speaker 3 (01:11:38):
Stevie wonders talking about New yours.

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
Yeah, yeah, okay, what music artists again? For both you
guys will be surprised to see on your playlist.

Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
I mean there's there's so many. I like Billy, I
love Billy Joel, I love Elton John, I love pianist,
you know I love that. You know, like it's like,
how'd you do that? How did you make that piano
sound that way? Diana crawl?

Speaker 4 (01:12:06):
So yeah, Neil Diamond.

Speaker 3 (01:12:10):
I'm surprised to hear that. Neil Diamond.

Speaker 4 (01:12:13):
Oh huh Yeah, you.

Speaker 7 (01:12:23):
Guys gotta you gotta explain that I still have young kids.

Speaker 4 (01:12:26):
Yeah, fifteen thirteen.

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
Say, but I wouldn't be surprised. See that's why I
was like, of course glow real, of course wrap arm
b all of it.

Speaker 4 (01:12:35):
I got, I get a mix.

Speaker 2 (01:12:37):
Yeah, this is a very important question right here.

Speaker 5 (01:12:40):
Grits, salt or sugar? Any grits?

Speaker 6 (01:12:43):
Oh salt salt, no way, no way, butter sugar?

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
Oh gallon of sugar, salt butter?

Speaker 3 (01:12:50):
Now you got oatmeal, very bland oat me, cheese and salt.

Speaker 4 (01:12:58):
Yeah, if anything, I'll have she's in my salt.

Speaker 5 (01:13:01):
Sugar.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
I'm gonna say scrambled eggs in there somebody.

Speaker 5 (01:13:04):
Yeah, butter.

Speaker 3 (01:13:05):
Well, then what do we have now?

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
We just have?

Speaker 3 (01:13:08):
We have.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
Guilty pleasure?

Speaker 3 (01:13:16):
Uh, a very dry martini up olives novermouth.

Speaker 5 (01:13:24):
Basically, what does dry mean?

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
Just just straight once to the dome. Yeah, okay, money,
once to the dome. I like that.

Speaker 4 (01:13:34):
My guilty pleasure would be.

Speaker 7 (01:13:39):
Harold's fried Chicken from the South Side of Chicago called.

Speaker 3 (01:13:45):
When he said hair, I was like, where are you going?

Speaker 5 (01:13:48):
That's the original They got him in Atlanta. Now, so.

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
He stabbed him like stabbing it shoes.

Speaker 7 (01:13:54):
She's like, you said hair, And then I started like
y'all too, I know, look at that that's going. It's
not going anywhere.

Speaker 5 (01:14:09):
Lebron Kobe wrank them.

Speaker 4 (01:14:12):
I'll let the queen go first, Okay, m J lebron Kobe, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
Order one to three.

Speaker 7 (01:14:20):
Oh Reallyron Kobe, Yeah, very good.

Speaker 4 (01:14:23):
I'm impressed. I'm impressed.

Speaker 3 (01:14:25):
That's just me personally.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
Yeah, it's personal questions, your personal question.

Speaker 6 (01:14:31):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
One book everybody should read.

Speaker 3 (01:14:33):
The book I read every couple of years is Tony
Morrison's song Asylent Solomon, Song of Solomon, Song of Solomon.
Tony Morrison is my favorite author of all time. And
you know she writes in metaphor, and you know her
pros are just awesome. So Song of Solomon.

Speaker 4 (01:14:55):
I would go, uh, Malcolm X's auto virus.

Speaker 6 (01:15:00):
If you could see one person on our show, who
would it be? But you have to help us get
your answer on the show, echoing.

Speaker 3 (01:15:15):
Barack Obama would love I would even.

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
Think of that.

Speaker 3 (01:15:21):
Call his people.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
Yeah, you know, he would get a hold of them.

Speaker 3 (01:15:25):
I think I think I got his numbers.

Speaker 4 (01:15:29):
That was going to be mine.

Speaker 5 (01:15:30):
I think I got his number.

Speaker 3 (01:15:31):
If you were talking about sports, I mean any sport,
I mean, you name it, it's a you know, and
he knows about everything, so he would he would have
a ball.

Speaker 5 (01:15:41):
Got it, We got it. We're gonna we have him
on the show.

Speaker 6 (01:15:43):
If we haven't we're gonna know not if when we haven't,
we're going to have a live game of horse.

Speaker 5 (01:15:50):
Yeah, I want to see what the left hand about.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
Yeah, we're gonna talk about that too, but we wait
to get that last question. If you were to have
a biopic, who would you want to play you? Oh
gosh on the spot. Final question?

Speaker 4 (01:16:05):
First, Well, nobody's gonna do a bio pick on me,
but you're going to be in.

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
It, to be in the big part of you.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
Know.

Speaker 4 (01:16:14):
What's what? I have not thought about it? Lay me?

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
Oh, Charlie Rolf because I just love her these days.

Speaker 5 (01:16:27):
Okay, big guy.

Speaker 4 (01:16:30):
I was gonna say Denzel.

Speaker 5 (01:16:31):
Big guy, ball headed.

Speaker 6 (01:16:32):
I would go Forrest Whittaker because he's killing it right
now on TV and yes he's playing.

Speaker 4 (01:16:38):
I would, I would.

Speaker 7 (01:16:40):
I was gonna say before she said Denzel, I was
gonna say Samuel L.

Speaker 4 (01:16:45):
Jackson.

Speaker 5 (01:16:46):
But neither one of them. Can you need somebody that
hoop a little bit?

Speaker 4 (01:16:51):
Say Forest Willier?

Speaker 5 (01:16:53):
Not better than them? Who's the dude, Who's.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
What's your name's brother?

Speaker 6 (01:16:59):
Who's what Harris's brother would have to play on bim F?

Speaker 5 (01:17:04):
Yeah, he would be great. He won't be great his brother.

Speaker 4 (01:17:07):
Yeah, his brothers.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
Yeah, yeah, slipping mine because.

Speaker 7 (01:17:13):
What Harris is probably a good athlete. Oh yeah, because
I think he played.

Speaker 6 (01:17:16):
He slayed inove the room. Yeah yeah, Harris, he's real good.
He's a real good actor.

Speaker 5 (01:17:23):
All right.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
Last thing, what do you think when you see this
picture right here?

Speaker 3 (01:17:27):
Is that Barrock? He doesn't the archives anymore? Oh my god?

Speaker 5 (01:17:35):
Okay, what was he doing in this picture?

Speaker 3 (01:17:37):
I have no idea. It looks like.

Speaker 5 (01:17:40):
He's was he collecting his starts?

Speaker 3 (01:17:42):
I don't know. He's probably about to smoke.

Speaker 6 (01:17:45):
That's what was that about to happen? Because I could
see myself in this picture, like the chairs over there, he.

Speaker 3 (01:17:52):
Might have just fit.

Speaker 6 (01:17:53):
Oh yeah, yeah, he fresh off one. I can see.

Speaker 5 (01:17:57):
I can see it.

Speaker 4 (01:17:57):
That's the same class.

Speaker 3 (01:18:00):
Appreciating all.

Speaker 5 (01:18:03):
Indeed, that's beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
Thank you guys very much for your.

Speaker 4 (01:18:09):
For you all you guys have your own yes, you
and our daughter, thank you so much.

Speaker 5 (01:18:20):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
Also, big things to manifest this new amazing eleven thousand
square foot building opening up September.

Speaker 4 (01:18:27):
You guys come check it out.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
One stop d C Harbishop, Crazy Clothes, Speak, easy bar food.

Speaker 5 (01:18:35):
It's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
Thank you guys for having.

Speaker 4 (01:18:36):
Us and the most comfortable chairs.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
And they got some gript to shell Obama Craig Robinson
catch us on All the Smoke YouTube and the Draft
Kings Network. We'll see you guys next week.

Speaker 5 (01:18:46):
Leg you pa, mm hmm