Mitch Richmond Talks 'We Believe', Run TMC, Shaq & Kobe, 'Dream Team 2' | Ep 225 | ALL THE SMOKE

On this weeks ATS, the guys are joined by the underrated, 6x all-star, 5x all-NBA, and NBA champ, Mitch Richmond, to discuss his great career. Richmond speaks on what it was like hearing MJ say that he was the closest thing to him, his time in the front office of the 'We Believe' Warriors, Run TMC, and winning a ring with Shaq & Kobe. Plus, he reflects on his Olympics experience playing for 'Dream Team 2' and shares some wild stories.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:24):
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Speaker 1 (01:10):
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(01:32):
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Welcome back All Star twenty twenty four Indiana, Indiana, Indneapolis.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yep, we here your old stumba grounds and this stops
knowing sod.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, we had a good day yesterday, some great guests.
You got a bucket episode. But I'm excited about this
one because, you know, growing up in northern California, I
got a chance to see him play from the beginning
when he got traded to Sacramento. Didn't necessarily want to go,
but the way he kind of changed the thinking. They're
and to me, one of the most underappreciated players. I

(02:40):
think in the history of the game. The greatest man
can score the ball, and his accolades and how his
peers respected him though, I think that's what's most important.
But welcome to the show man, Mitch Rison. Mitch. We
appreciate you, man, bet you, I mean again. Decorated career,
six time All Star, five time All NBA. Want to
ring with the two congratulations in the Hall of Fame

(03:03):
in twenty fourteen nomination. How's life? What's going on with
you these days? Man?

Speaker 4 (03:08):
Life is good, man, Just trying to stay out of
the way. You know, we always read it to you everywhere.
But just enjoying life, man, and join the freedom life.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Obviously, one of the best scores ever averaged twenty points
or more of your first ten seasons. Is a very
short list of people who did that. What was your
philosophy on scoring?

Speaker 4 (03:28):
I think for me, you know, I just wanted to
always be aggressive and be consistent.

Speaker 5 (03:37):
So I think I took it on myself.

Speaker 4 (03:40):
I think my first year getting Rookie of the Year
and going into that summer. You always hear about second
year Jinx not being prepared the second year and falling off,
So I think that summer, man, I just worked my
butt off not to let that happen. And then it
just became a habit to try to add something because

(04:00):
when I first came into the league, I wasn't a shooter,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
I was.

Speaker 4 (04:04):
I was that's hard to believe, Yeah, I was. I
was attacking the realm and people didn't know I was.
I was a dunker, yeah, And so I posted up
a lot. I was a slasher, and then you know,
I just started working on my three point shot. And
start working on my outside game, and that's kind of
helped me throughout my career.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
But also, I mean, as much as you scored, you
play defense too. Yes, that was something you definitely hung
your hat on. Get a credit. No you didn't, but
you got you got praised by by one of the
greatest you know, Michael Jordan quoted Mitch is the closest
thing I've watched to myself in the mirror, and that
was on both ends of the ball, right, And that
was back when when guys went on both sides of
the ball. So when you hear arguably Michael Jordan, the

(04:44):
greatest players have ever said when like I said, although
I feel like you've been overlooked. The people you played
against it and people who know the game respect you.
But when you hear some someone like Mike say that
about you, what did you think?

Speaker 5 (04:54):
Oh man, it was very special.

Speaker 4 (04:56):
They're very special to even hear from my peers because
I was in Sacramento at the time and it wasn't
getting a lot of play, and anybody on the East coast,
you know, our games was coming on at eleven twelve
o'clock and they couldn't really see it, and they wasn't
playing Sacramento at the time anyway, and so it was
very difficult for me to come from gold to State
that we were probably two or three players away, I

(05:18):
mean probably one player away, and then going to Sacramento rebuilding.
So it was it was really hard to handle that trade.
But I just tried to be consistent as possible. Didn't
look at the scoreboard. I remember that I had to
continue to keep playing hard, and the only way I
can do that it just don't look at the scoreboard,

(05:39):
because we wasn't winning no games at that time.

Speaker 5 (05:42):
So I just wanted to try to play hard.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
Do you remember one time in practicing Goldos State? It
was there was practicing and shooting or something. Yeah, and
you gave me a key to average twenty. Yes, you
made it simplified. I mes, like stack just about five
points a quarter? Yes, just get five a quarter, that's right.
And you know, and I'm playing basketball all the time,
and I never just thought about like how easy it
is to get five points a quarter, right, two buckets
in the free throw that's right. But you put me

(06:05):
to like jack five points a quarters. All you do,
you're gonna get five points a quarter. But ever since then,
I'm like, it's simplified. I'm in a game like good,
twenty points, ain't nothing no.

Speaker 4 (06:14):
More, right, right, Especially you got the ball in your hands,
and if you can get to the free throw line,
it really sometimes when you're you know, you're not having
a great shoot night, but sometimes we get to the
free throw line, it really kind of gets you back
in the.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Cruse and you can get ten from thee.

Speaker 4 (06:28):
Ten of TIMPs from the line. And so I think
that was a big part of my game of doing nothing.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, well, raised by your mom and grandpa.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
You played football growing up in for a lot of deal, right,
just said you grew up with Michael Irvings and other guys.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
What was it like growing up in for a lot
of deal?

Speaker 3 (06:41):
I'm playing football being such a cold, cold motherfucking basketball.

Speaker 4 (06:45):
Well, I you know in foot in Florida, man, you
grow up, you know, in my crib I had I
had a football in my crib.

Speaker 5 (06:52):
Everybody, I mean everybody, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (06:54):
And and and started playing football, and football was my
number one sport. I just started playing basketball or to
the tenth grade, really, yeah, to the tenth grade and
went out for the team were ninth grade. I went
out for the team and I ain't have no grades
at that time, you know what I mean, because I
was rebelling.

Speaker 5 (07:12):
My mom was moving and everything.

Speaker 4 (07:13):
But went out for the tenth grade, made the team,
and the rest was history.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
I loved it.

Speaker 4 (07:19):
Never went back to football and enjored it and just
kept climbing from there.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Who was around I mean, you mentioned Michael Irving. Any
other people that went pro and other sports? Oh?

Speaker 4 (07:28):
Yeah, man, it was Lorenzo White, Yeah, who played from
Michigan State and then went to Houston. I think at
the time, Houston Oilers. We had Bennie and Brian Blades,
both brothers. You know, Vernon Maxwell was around Brown at
that time. Dion was a little bit more up north,
but he was there, Gary Sheffield all the flow. It

(07:52):
was all Florida.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Boy. What was it you played?

Speaker 5 (07:54):
I played defensive endy tight end.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
Okay, okay, so we're just talking about grades. You didn't
love school, but it had to click at some point?
When did it click?

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Well?

Speaker 4 (08:05):
I loved school, but I was rebelling because my mom
kept moving and I wanted to, you know, go back
where my friends were when they were getting ready to
go to high school. So I was like, man, I
ain't gonna go to school because I want to go
back over that way. And so it took me probably
a couple of years to kind of get that under
my belt. But my mom moved back to Fort Lauderdale

(08:26):
because I moved to Deerfield at the time, where Eddie
Jones and you know all them from, and so I
moved back to Fort Lauderdale. That's when I started saying, man,
I went out for the basketball team, made the team
my ninth grade year, but they cut me. So I said,
you know, mom, I really want to play basketball now,
but I need to go back to Florida and I'll
show you if I can good good grades, and I'll

(08:48):
show you that I can change. And I mean I
had to go to night school, day school, vocational school,
everything to get prepared for my tenth grade year.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
You know, Jaylen Bronston said something yesterday about how moving
around and bouncing around a lot with his dad.

Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yes to thank him too, you know, no question about it,
because you you know, you grow up with that unit,
and when you're a young kid, you go into a
whole nother environment.

Speaker 5 (09:10):
You have to really kind of start get.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
Friends friends are and we all know that.

Speaker 4 (09:17):
Now when you have kids, at some point in time,
when they get to a certain age, you gotta star.
You got to slow up and then let them, you know,
gather their friends or whatever and get comfortable.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
My life.

Speaker 3 (09:28):
We all have a certain music, a soundtrack in our
head is like the soundtrack of our life.

Speaker 4 (09:34):
Yes, you are big into R and B. Yes, what
what role the music play in your life? I mean
I think it plays a big role, man. I mean
just growing up with run DMC, you know, watching them
and Jada kids. You know it's a little younger but
great music, cool mode. Yeah, come on, man, like l
L classic. So I mean that that. I mean music

(09:55):
gets you fired up and pomp uh and so you
know you use it for different things.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
You know, it's great at the Mobiley Community College.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
What kind of experience was that to shape you into
the player you you end up being.

Speaker 4 (10:09):
Yeah, man, So in high school I played the center
and for a position, and so I've been playing right right,
So I was posting up. That's all I was doing
at that time. I was just dunking and just playing hard.
Coming from football to basketball, I felt like it really
helped me because I was aggressive and really didn't have
all my skills at the time, but I knew how

(10:30):
to play hard and UH and so when I went
to went to Mobiley, I really had to start playing
the two guard position.

Speaker 5 (10:38):
I can remember University of Arkansas was recruiting me.

Speaker 4 (10:40):
That's when they had Avan Robinson, Big Joe Clyde and
they were playing Houston, and I loved Houston team with
Elijah One and all those guys. So I went to
the went to the game on my recruiting trip, and
I wanted to get to the game earlier to see,
you know, the lodge one of them in the dunk,
because that's like a pro dunk. They was dunking in

(11:02):
the warmup lives. And so when I saw large One
come out and I'm playing the four position at high school,
I'm like, I'm.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Not ready, man, I'm not ready. I'm not ready.

Speaker 4 (11:13):
And so I ended up going to UH Mobiley and
working every summer. I didn't go back home, and I
had to start working on my outside skills, my card skills,
and so it took me a while because I had
to change my shot. I used to shoot on the side.
My coach was making me shoot with the ball at
my forehead. So it took me about a good two
years to develop that and then it worked.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
Out, working out. Yeah, and then off to k State. Yep,
what was that experience? Like, I really didn't want to
go to k State, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (11:43):
But my coach at the time was Dana Auburn who
coaches Oregon, and he wanted to get out of out
of a junior college Kansas stayed at the time. Was
offered him an assistant job, and he convinced me Picker's deal. Yea,
you know, the go to k State at that time.

(12:05):
My mom loved him and he took you know, he
made sure that I was doing my books and doing
everything when I was in junior college. So and long
Cruge at the time was getting the job at Kansas State,
and so he said, I build the whole team around
you because you're coming from JUCO.

Speaker 5 (12:20):
You know, you're going to some other system.

Speaker 4 (12:22):
They already have players there, So you come here, I
build the whole team around you. And uh yeah, I
went there and then yeah, man, everything.

Speaker 5 (12:30):
Yeah, it worked out, worked out, worked out a.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
Lot of talent before in that JUCO circuit, though Larry
Johnson was in there.

Speaker 4 (12:39):
Yes, you remember, yep, John scheunk Kill was a little
later than me. But they remember how they had Bou
Harvey St.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
John's.

Speaker 5 (12:48):
They had some players that are Ricky Grace at that time.

Speaker 4 (12:52):
But yeah, uh now you have what the prep prep
school at the time, everybody was going JUCO, so Juco,
Harvey Grant was in there as well. So Juco was loaded, man,
I mean every night was loaded.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (13:07):
Yeah, we had my team.

Speaker 4 (13:09):
I mean we went I think we went sixty nine
and eight my two years there, and I mean we
had my I averaged eleven points, my ten points my
first year, sixteen points my second year. It was a development,
you know what I mean. But we had seven guys
and double figures. So we had a crew. Our leading
scorer was averaging like thirteen points, so everyone so everybody. Yeah,

(13:33):
we had had a guy by the name of what
was his name, but he played at Missouri. He was
the rookie of the year Missouri. He flunked out. He
was coming to the Juco. He was six ' eight
point guard and our team was so loaded he came
off the bench.

Speaker 5 (13:47):
Really, so we had we.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Had a lot of people went to JUCO. You know,
a lot of people made a lot of people that
was a heavy route early off nineteen eighty eight the Olympics,
the last time it was all college players. What was
that experience like for you?

Speaker 4 (14:01):
It was great to get on the Olympic team. I
think the experience we could have definitely played a little better.
I think we didn't use our talents as we should have.
You know, at that time, John John Thompson was a boy.
He was he was busting our balls. But really he
had us working so hard.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Man.

Speaker 4 (14:17):
We didn't really work on shooting because you've ever seen
his team.

Speaker 5 (14:21):
They were all about defense. But we had we had
a young team.

Speaker 4 (14:25):
But at that time the European team had caught up
and they they had Sharonus, Marcellonis, they had Sabonis, they
had uh Diva. All of those guys they've been playing
together for about eight eight nine years. We had got
together for a couple of months and they were grown
men at that time. Uh and so yeah, we lost
the Olympics in eighty eight. That's when they switched it

(14:48):
over and made it start playing pros.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Talk to us about Sabonis because a lot of people don't.
We got the older vote version of.

Speaker 4 (14:57):
The Greatest oh my god, bro I mean he could pass,
he was unbelievable, had a hook shot, had I mean
he throw passes behind his back and at that time
he could run a little bit. But the head was
about this big I mean everybody, I mean everything, everything,
the same thing, everything and bigger and bigger, and you
couldn't get around him. He was like shot, yeah, you

(15:19):
know what I mean, with all of the skills, he
had everything. Man, he was a good player. He specially
he was a good player.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
But you got I mean, obviously John Thompson coached that team.
You had David Robinson, Hersey Hawkins, Dan Marley, Bimbo Coles,
the name a few, any any any cool off the
court experience of just being in the Olympic experience.

Speaker 5 (15:35):
Man, we had some great experience.

Speaker 4 (15:36):
I can remember a time where we were having Yeah,
we were playing Egypt, I think, and we had beat
Egypt by I think sixty two points. And uh, we
come in the locker room and we're high five and
we're having a good time and John Thompson consent that said,
can I.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Cuss on him? Shit? Y'all ass down?

Speaker 5 (15:57):
They all did him do ship your practice ship and
we're going to practice.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
After the game, after the game, like, oh my god. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:05):
And it was kind of that Bobby Knight. You know
that that Bobby Knight did that as well. Where he
were you know, after games he would make you go
go to practice and were like, man, come on, man,
we want to enjoy the festivities.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
But we know he wasn't having that at all.

Speaker 5 (16:20):
We went to practice. Wow, running, I mean running running.

Speaker 4 (16:25):
We would do this thing called we do things called pyramids,
so where you were run one time down, yes, all
the way up to twelve and come back. But John
thing was you cannot grab your shorts, can't bend down,
can't go and you know, hold onto the wall, onto

(16:46):
the backboard.

Speaker 5 (16:47):
If he sees that, we start over. And so j R.

Speaker 4 (16:51):
Reed make us start made us start over a lot. Yeah,
he made us start over, no question about it.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Uh. Dream Team too, obviously dream Team one when did
their thing? You were part of Dream Team two in Atlanta?
What was it Atlanta? Like First and Foremost? But there
was also a bombing at the Oalympics.

Speaker 5 (17:10):
Correct, Yes, yeah, that was I think it was.

Speaker 4 (17:13):
It was a great time because I never thought I'd
be able to have an opportunity to get back because
I was on the last team in eighty eight to
lose it. So seeing David Robinson and some of the
guys that played with me get an opportunity to get
back to the Olympics. Man, I never thought I'd get
an opportunity, but it was playing so well and they
called me, uh to be on the team.

Speaker 5 (17:33):
It was great to be in Atlanta because.

Speaker 4 (17:34):
My family have family in Atlanta, all my families and
from Florida, so there it was a great opportunity for
them to come and see me and be right there
in the States. The truck, yeah right, the Olympics. Man,
all my friends and family you know, came now. But
the bombing was was was definitely scary. I can remember
being in a hotel hotel shaking and going out to

(17:55):
the to the balcony and seeing the smoke and people
running everywhere.

Speaker 5 (17:59):
So it was really really scary moment.

Speaker 4 (18:01):
We didn't know what was going on, but we grat
we gathered and gathered together, got together and uh, you know,
the police said everyone kind of protected us and made
sure that.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
I mean, obviously a lot of hype about the Dream
Team and it's just due, but you guys, have you
g Hill, Shaq, Reggie Miller, Penny Stockton, Malone, y'all was
loaded too. We were loaded. Talked us about that team,
and obviously we saw what you guys did on off
the court. But a lot of people who don't get
a chance to play this game. Some of the funnest
times are off the court, on the bus, in the locker,

(18:31):
the ship, talking the playing flights.

Speaker 5 (18:33):
But we had so much fun. I mean, we had
a lot of fun.

Speaker 4 (18:36):
And back then, now if they if they had cameras
back then, I mean, shit, all bad.

Speaker 5 (18:43):
Man Charles Brockert have been in jail. I can remember
we were.

Speaker 4 (18:50):
We went out somewhere and Charles, he was always a
friendly guy, you know, you know, he'll he'll talk to anybody.
But then when you disrespected, you know, and that guy
had a little too drunk, and uh and Charles, Charles, Charles.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Hit him a little bit.

Speaker 4 (19:04):
You know, we got we got the practice next day
because we went out and all of a sudden we
see the police coming in and uh, you know, coach
sat us down.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
And who was the coach of that team.

Speaker 5 (19:16):
It was Lady Wilkins.

Speaker 4 (19:18):
Yeah, yeah, he sat us down and in the poet
I can remember the police saying that, hey, like, listen,
you guys got to watch yourself.

Speaker 5 (19:25):
You know, you got to be able to walk away.

Speaker 4 (19:28):
And I remember Charles said, well, y'all gonna be right
back here tomorrow because if somebody get in my face,
I'm gonna hit him again, I'm gonna hit him again,
and we're gonna keep doing it. But yeah, that was
that was a really a fun team, though, really good team.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
Fifth pick in the ninety eight draft.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
Excuse me, nineteen ninety eighty eight drafts, Gill And you
were told by somebody.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
We know very well, who I love dearly.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
Who means the world to me. You were told by him,
and let me know what you was thinking after he
told you this. Yo, Man, you terrible. You need a
lot of work. Oh man, Nelly done, Nelson. I can't
remember coming from the Olympics. Uh you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (20:11):
I want to get ready and get prepared to play
for the for the season, because you know, the Olympics we
lost were like man, we were we thought that.

Speaker 5 (20:18):
They were going to shoot the player down.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Man. We had lost the game.

Speaker 4 (20:21):
So I go into Golden State and I didn't have
I didn't sign my contract, so I said, I go
over there, just go to Golden State.

Speaker 5 (20:27):
And they're running, they're running some games.

Speaker 4 (20:29):
And so I got off the plane from China from Soul, Korea,
I mean tired, but I said, man, I'm gonna going Hoop.

Speaker 5 (20:37):
Went over there and Hoop.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
And he was there, and I guess I played terror
and he was like, boy, you need a lot of work, man,
you Terror. I'm like what you talk about. I got
back on the plane and left. I'm like, man, I
ain't signed my contract. Yeah, I'm just trying to come in,
you know, and get ready. But yeah, but but but Nelly.

Speaker 5 (20:54):
Was like that, you know that Nellie was a straight
shooting but crazy believe that.

Speaker 4 (21:00):
Oh he believed me because he coached me. U back then,
we used to have Orlando Classic. No, they was yell
the summ League. Yeah, right before the right before the draft.
And it should get back to that where it doesn't
matter if you're a number one or you're number sixty.

Speaker 5 (21:17):
Everybody played against each yeam.

Speaker 4 (21:19):
So if you were ranked number one and two guard,
you play against the ten god that's ranked and you battle.
And so Nelly was my coach at the time, never
said anything to me, never know that I was going
to go to Golden State. You know, we would just talk,
but he wouldn't. I never knew he was gonna draft me.
But at that time, they would have a car. I mean,

(21:40):
NBA coaches coached the summer league and so get a
feel of the guys and uh, and then you go
into the draft and so yeah, he drafted me there.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
But Nelly was hub down a cookie. I mean I was.
I think at that time I was.

Speaker 4 (21:53):
Supposed to be ranked like going in the draft like
twenty two. And after that, after that came out, they
say I'll be top five.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was your early impression of the
time when you got that open? Oh? Man, man, I
love Oakley bro you know, hitting it, I feel it's different.

Speaker 4 (22:19):
Yeah, it's different now. But Oakland was a great city, man,
and they embraced that team. And you guys know that's
not that's probably one of the funniest places to play.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
They don't boo you, you know, they get you up, support,
they support you, and that's a lot of teams don't do.
That's them in Sacramento as well. But man, we had
some great times and at that time, San Francisco was fun. Uh,
to hang out and do that, and you know we
got a history together, yes, and so yeah, I mean
Oakland was great for me.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
Did it bother you when they started abandoning in Oakland
from professional sports?

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Man? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (22:54):
Because you know even you know they have it over
in San Francisco, but you missed.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
It's not the same.

Speaker 5 (23:00):
Yeah, it's not the same. Right there, he is right there.
And and they really took care of you if you
played on that team.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
Took care of you, man, love you.

Speaker 4 (23:11):
Theywhere San Francisco, I mean San Jose all the way
down Hayward and you know, they really supported the team,
and so they had a big Latino following. Man, that
man just just really kind of took care of the
team and everything.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
But I've seen yeah, I've never seen a major city
lose all of their sports.

Speaker 5 (23:33):
It's everything.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Sad to go there now, Yeah, it's really sad. You
peel round.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
That's the first thing you did with you when you
got your bread NBA read. I can remember my first check.
I put it on my refrigerator.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
How much was if you don't mind to sell, it's.

Speaker 4 (23:49):
About thirty thous yeah, you know, and it was my
first check and it stayed there for a minute until
what my boys said, Man, are you gonna put that?

Speaker 1 (23:59):
Man? Just gonna look at it? Just look at it, man.

Speaker 4 (24:04):
Yeah. And my first thing I did, I bought my
mom's house. And then I waited probably another year OUTI
I got me something. Another two years, I got me
something about after my third year. Then I got me something.
But I got my apartment that time. Man, I was
living in the hotel at Uh.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
What is that Mary right there with the practice? What's that? Oh? Yeah,
I don't know what it is now, just like the
sweets now.

Speaker 4 (24:30):
But yeah, I stayed there for about six months, yeah,
you know, until they said, man, can.

Speaker 5 (24:34):
You go and get you a spot?

Speaker 4 (24:36):
Took their mom first, took their mom's first, stayed there,
and I was just hooping.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
Man, it was just going to do. Just enjoyed it.

Speaker 5 (24:42):
Just in Jordan.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
Most most guys, even some of the top players, they
have rookie struggles and they don't come in and get
straight to averaging big numbers.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
Your rookie year twenty two a game? What was that?
What was that feeling? Like Nelly? Man?

Speaker 4 (24:56):
I mean the way he played, in the style he played,
he gave me an opportunity. Uh, to really kind of
showcase my child and my talents. And he just let
me go and we played just like you're saying, how
they play now. We played a motion offense, and at
times he would come in the locker room and say, listen,
we're not gonna run any plays unless you guys don't play,

(25:18):
play amongst each other and pass the ball. He said,
I'm only gonna call plays because but we were it
was it was still a set offense, but it was
a motion offense, and so he said he we were
practiced at for days, man, and at that time we had,
you know, thirty days straight of tour days.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
It was crazy.

Speaker 4 (25:40):
So we would because we knew we were gonna play
Denver and dinner in the altitude, you had to be
ready and they run like this, so he would, uh,
you know, he would get us prepared, man, and we
played emotion and we had Chris and Tim came a
little later, but we shared the ball. And that was
my pretty much my favorite favorite team that I played with.
It was kind of like you guys, yes, you know

(26:02):
what I mean. It was that that we believe team
you know, identical, identical. Man, you guys got along. That's
why we went and got you guys, you know what
I mean. That's why we went and got you guys,
you know, And I got a good story about well,
at the time, we had no knock on the other players.
But we had Don Levy and Troy Murphy. We had
fine players, but we didn't have we didn't have that,

(26:25):
didn't have that. He came, he came doing that, and
we didn't have that toughness at the time.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
And and you know, you have some trouble over there
in Indiana here right right here where we are, not
too far from here.

Speaker 4 (26:45):
You know, you had you had some trouble in Indiana,
And it was a perfect time. And I was working
in the front office at the time, a special assistant
to Chris Mother. And uh, it was a great opportunity
for us to really kind of go after you.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
Then.

Speaker 4 (26:58):
We were going to get you and out our our
heretage and uh, and we needed toughness, man. We felt
like we had a lot of talent, but nobody was
scared of us, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (27:09):
And so when you had your situation, man, we pursued
you right away.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
You know, he carry, let's go get him.

Speaker 4 (27:16):
Yeah, yeah, we said, we pursued it right away. I said,
sometimes you know you need another chain of seeler. Yes
and what I need and no question.

Speaker 5 (27:23):
And then when you came to Oakland, the city embraced you.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (27:27):
You felt at home, man, You felt at home. The
city embraced you. We felt like we had a three
headed monster at that time because we had Baron that was,
you know, trying to get healthy. We had mante Ellis
coming Guarantee twenty, Guaranteed twenty. We had you as well,
and we we we grabbed Matt and Matt h coach

(27:49):
loved you because we had Rod Higgins years before that
kind of played the four positions that can pull the
defense out. He remember when you got there, he was like,
shoot threes. I want you to shoot. That's all you
were doing in practice degree.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
But before that happened, so I wasn't even I got
I wasn't late invite to camp. That is, fresh out
of getting traded to Philly with Web and not playing.
So I don't know if I'm thinking about going to
try to play football. And I remember Baron called me,
He's like, hey, we got to open gym today. Come down.
I'm at the Crib and Sacramento. So I drive down
two hours and similar to like you said, Nelly was
upstairs watching YEP, and I played well and he came down.

(28:24):
He's like, where are you going to camp sun and
put his arm around me. I'm like, I don't know.
You have coach. He's like, well, if you played the
way you played today, I can't promise, but I'm gonna
give you a chance. He's like, we have a full
roster and we have all of our camp invites, but
if you come and do what you did today, I'll
give you a chance. I'm like, shit. So I went
from the last person invited, like I wasn't even invited,
last person to get in there, beat everyone out. And

(28:45):
for what I heard that I was playing well enough
that you felt like you can get rid of and
Troy and go get some That's what we did.

Speaker 4 (28:52):
Yeah, and that's what we did because you, yeah, you
wasn't even on the rosters we had to make.

Speaker 5 (28:57):
We had to make room for him. But I tell
you a good story where we were playing Houston when
that we believe team and Jacket was your birthday.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
Yeah, we had a red party.

Speaker 5 (29:09):
You had a red party, and so we uh. So
we win the game, remember everybody, god and so we
uh we played the game, had a good game.

Speaker 4 (29:21):
So now, me, Nelly, Chris were all sitting in the
lobby right after the game. We have a good time.
We sitting in the lobby having to drake. All of
a sudden, we looked towards the elevator, you and the whole.

Speaker 5 (29:34):
Team already all read coming out.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
We're like, oh god, no, god, nore ain't going where
they're going. Man, it's eleven thirty.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
What ain't going?

Speaker 4 (29:43):
So you come over, everybody come over. You know, that
team was so well. It was together.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Man.

Speaker 5 (29:49):
We all felt like a family. But I can remember
you coming over and we were like, yeah, man, it's
my birthday. Man, I'm taking all the guys out. Man,
we're going for my birthday. We're like, okay, okay, cool man,
just be careful, be careful, care them. So you guys
start walking away, You walk away, you turn around, you
come back, and you go.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
Hey, and by the way, hey, I got him.

Speaker 5 (30:08):
We're like, oh god, you got him.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
You got about all the people like, oh my god, please,
we ain't gonna get no sleep. Came back. Yeah, when
you came back and said.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
That was like, oh Lord, help Burst. No oh Jack
got him. We needn't go to sleep that night.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
That team was funny from a standpoint of Nelly kind
of once Jack infiltrated and got in and it's about
like this is before cannabis was obviously still, but Nelly
didn't care, Like Nellie's just like whatever you guys feel
like you need to do to be ready, you know
what I mean. He would try to hurry up and
get our drug tests done. We went up to his
house and people think it was a joke, but it
was for real, Like the ship. After the playoffs, he

(30:51):
told us that Woody Harrelson's in the back rolling doubies
and go smoke with him. I'm just like, this is
our head coach talking Nelly. Another story. So do we
believe team be Dallas in the first round? Put me,
Jack and Bedie on the same floor and put the
big gym fan at the end of the hallway. Remember
the biggest Jim fans back in the day. Nelly put
a gym fan on our floor because he knew he

(31:13):
was gonna be smoking in Utah. But like Nellie was
so different, Yeah, it was different.

Speaker 3 (31:18):
He believed that you know, like, yeah, no, coach made
me a captain. As soon as I got there, he
made me a captain. Like the belief he put in
you was like yeah.

Speaker 4 (31:27):
Yeah, yeah, that was that was That was really a
good team. And we would always get calls with you guys.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
In the city. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, every night in
the city.

Speaker 5 (31:35):
We were like, yeah, they're gonna be all right.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
They too, like you said, take we didn't have one
problem real quick since you were in management how close
or because we've talked to Kevin Garnette about it of
trying to go out and get the KG situation after that,
we believe situation was it realtch.

Speaker 5 (31:52):
B It was so real. Let me say something to you, man,
we h.

Speaker 4 (31:59):
I think that was the downfall of everything, of everything
because we had KG, and KG wanted to come and
we're like, man, that's all we need. I mean KG,
We're gonna keep the core of our guys and and
we can remember I can remember, like we we we

(32:19):
talked about it and talked to it and they said no,
we came to this was draft day and I d
and I and our pick was coming up, and I
can I can remember, man, it was like we had
him in our hands, and I think at that time
of a word about uh a contract situation or I
have to put up like a little bit more money.
But we're like, listen, we can make that back if

(32:41):
we get KG. You can. You can set ticket sales
and say hey, five years out, you know what I mean?
And that bro, that was a that was a that
was a hard one. And that's when that's when he
went to Boston.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
And then we lost Rich branded right from night for
Jason ri that's right, that's right.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
But we would have got rand the right, we would
have got KG. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
It was so real, man, it was so and he
wanted to come to God, to Stef and how we
played and how you guys we needed.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
He made his fire with our.

Speaker 5 (33:17):
Burners exactly exactly, which with.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah, because you know we always burned out the whole team.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
We talked You just mentioned Chris Mullen when we was playing,
like we talked about y'all used to y'all was still playing,
that's right, and we used to see him shoot all
the time.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
How good was Chris Mullen? Chris was awesome, man.

Speaker 4 (33:34):
I mean he definitely helped my game by coming there
because his work ethic. You know, I thought I worked,
but I wasn't working on the aspect of my game.

Speaker 5 (33:44):
Well what he was doing he was shooting constantly.

Speaker 4 (33:47):
Man, So we started shooting six hundred seven hundred shots
a day. And we wouldn't just take six hundred seven.
We were makes, yeah, make six hundred and seven. At
that time, we had Mark Rabow who was one of
the strengths and conditioning coaches, and g that's right. It
would be me, me and him and Rod Higgins and man,
we would shoot all summer. I mean shoot, shoot, shoot,

(34:10):
And he definitely that's why I became a shooter, because
you know, I would work with him.

Speaker 3 (34:14):
So now I'm just let me go off Rod Higgins. Yes,
now I see how I got to Charlotte. Yes, yes, Okay,
that's why the trade happened so easy, exactly.

Speaker 4 (34:26):
Okay, we left, I mean he left us, and that
was then again I'm saying that was the our downfall
for everything, for everything, losing Rod didn't get the KG thing,
and it was just it's just kind of kind of
pop from there. But yeah, ro Rod loved you, so
Rob was a big part.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
Of you going to over there.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
Yeah, and that was my best year after that. Yeah,
Charlotte talk about run TMC. How y'all took over the culture.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
But how was that and how did the name come about?
Being rock star?

Speaker 5 (34:55):
Yeah, we we were trying to find a name.

Speaker 4 (34:57):
I think we did a uh they did a uh
silence something with the fans uh.

Speaker 5 (35:03):
And then they just told the fans just sending names.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
And and a team and a guy came up with
the run TMC name like the run DMC. Yeah and
uh and from there, man, it was history. It really
matched up what we were doing. And at that time,
you know, Tim Hardaway, man, he was tough to deal with,
you know what I mean, And he was a he
was a willing passer.

Speaker 5 (35:28):
So only thing we wanted to do just run the floor.
He'll get it to you.

Speaker 4 (35:31):
So we just start really having a great time playing
that fast pace and we just we just needed.

Speaker 5 (35:38):
A couple more pieces.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
Man.

Speaker 4 (35:40):
We felt like we could have been there. And you
know now, just like go to State with Clay and Curry.
They kept that unit together. Yeah, And anytime someone keeps
the unit together and then build around it, your team
is going to get better. But when you're trying to
mess with the core of the guys, You're still gonna
be a hit and miss.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
I think that was My next question was short lived?

Speaker 5 (36:02):
Yeah, man, well listen now, Nelly, I love you to death.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
And he knows he crazy to Yeah, no question, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (36:11):
And at that time, Nelly was the general manager, and
he was the coach, and and and he and he
drank a lot.

Speaker 5 (36:20):
So I think at that time.

Speaker 4 (36:23):
You know, you know, it didn't just happened with me,
It also happened with Webb. I think, you know, he
was just trying to mix and match a little too much.
And uh, that was that was heartbreaking because that team
was such a a family oriented team and to leave there, yeah,
that was tough. So I think it was so short lived.

(36:44):
But I but I wish we would have played together longer.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
That was a great Nelly was the type of dude
that to build a house and burn them the same
day got the match. Now, Yeah, people love you. He
used to come to practice in the morning with us
when we were playing with either like a beer and
his dog or coffee cup. But that who don't ain't
no telling. They might be crowning the coffee call. It's
the dog name old a little dog. He always had

(37:09):
the little dog with.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
Oh all right, listen, we got practice on one side
on the corn. Come on, that's a dog, bro, you
can't do to play on both sides.

Speaker 4 (37:21):
I remember we played up, we played Seattle, and that's
at the time of olden polonies. It's kind of like
a bruiser and he was beating up on all of us,
all all of all the big men and uh.

Speaker 5 (37:35):
And I remember Nellie Nelly put in the guy.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (37:38):
He didn't play that much.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
He put him in and say, hey, I want you
to file out, file.

Speaker 5 (37:44):
And hit op every time.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Call him.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
Guy went in there and didn't file op, not one time.
And I'm like, oh god, oh he in trouble, Oh
he in trouble. We were after the game. My man said, man,
I ain't gonna never ask you to do nothing. And
I'm like, oh, ship. Next day when we lose up
Nelly used to run.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
His shut out.

Speaker 4 (38:06):
So we get back to Uh, we get back to
Oakland and you know how you would like, the starters
will play thirty forty minutes and you sit on now.
He said, don't nobody go to the locker room. So
we got our ice bags, you know, watching the practice.
He tell the guy, Okay, let's go. He ran up
for about forty five minutes. He ran a forty five minutes.

(38:26):
Were like, oh my god, man. And then at the
end he called everybody and they said, hey man, everybody
say goodbye to him. He cut him after that cut him,
after that roam.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Yeah, he was like, oh my lob boy, you didn't
mess with Delly. Man had one job.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
Yeah, that file and with Nelly. You're walking in the
locker room somebody be gone for you don't even know.
It's just he hadn't done it, but I just seen it.
Yeah he's gone, He's gone.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah, it was. It was ruthless. You still got a
relationship with Nelly and money.

Speaker 5 (38:54):
Uh you talked to me. I talked to Molly yesterday. Yeah,
we still talk everyone while Nellie.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
I mean, I have so much respectful because I thought
he was the best coach I ever had, you know
what I mean? And and also I want to choke him. Yeah,
you know what I mean, no question, but it for
trading me. So so I didn't speak to him a
long time when he traded me. But I do respect
him as a coach. To respect him as a basketball mind.

(39:21):
But yeah, that was a tough time.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
We're trying to get down there to see him and
check up on him. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (39:25):
Yeah, I mean when we see each other, we still talk.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
The love is there, you know what I mean, especially now, Man,
you got to get over a lot of little things
and keep it moving.

Speaker 5 (39:35):
But it was tough.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
You mentioned the devastation, you know, going a little up
I a to Sacramento. First thing you heard from your
team that's was welcome to Hell. Yes, but urban legend
or truth? Did you commute? Did you keep a crib
in the Bay and just commuted the act?

Speaker 4 (39:52):
I had just bought my house in Alameda. Nice over there, Yeah,
beautiful un the Bay. And I got traded at the
Sacramento and I said, man, I'm not I'm not moving
the sack. I really felt I was still connected to
that team, you know what I mean. And anytime they
had uh parties at the house, I was still there.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
I was still there, you know what I mean. I
would go to their thing.

Speaker 4 (40:17):
And so yeah, I commuted for like the first maybe
two years, just going back and forth, get a hotel
room and uh.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
But I lived in Oakland the first two and a
half years I was playing.

Speaker 5 (40:31):
I lived in Oakland.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Who was the coaching sack when you first went, h
what is the name.

Speaker 4 (40:36):
Coach at Uh? Jerry Renal No, no, no, Jerry was
the gym at the time. He had moved up.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (40:43):
It was a guy from Dallas, the older player.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (40:47):
Man, I can't even think of names. I wanted to
choke him to.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
Uh yeah yeah, uh yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
He was a Dallas He had the good, the great,
the older player.

Speaker 4 (40:57):
He'll come to the older No, Garret say, he was
about my man, that's that's my guy.

Speaker 5 (41:02):
But before him, I can't think of.

Speaker 4 (41:04):
Dick Mod, Dick mad Yeah, Dick.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
You wasn't rocking with him. You didn't rock with Dick.
I think it was just I think at that time
it was just tough. Man.

Speaker 4 (41:19):
No, it was just tough at that time because I
came from Golden State and uh, you know, it was
probably at the end his career.

Speaker 5 (41:26):
Next time, yeah, it was probably at.

Speaker 4 (41:27):
The end of his career. And at that time, it's
just the styles. It wasn't the same. He wanted a
more slow down pace. We didn't have the talent to
play in the East, I mean in the West at
that time.

Speaker 5 (41:39):
At the slow down pace at the time, West was
very physical.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
Did he coach a long time because I never heard it.

Speaker 5 (41:45):
No, no, no, no, Well he had agreed had coached,
Yeah he had, but Sacramento he didn't.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
What was your first year in SEC What year was that?

Speaker 5 (41:54):
That was ninety three?

Speaker 1 (41:56):
I think it was so five straight all NBA teams
when you got to sack. Yeah, ninety three to ninety
eight average twenty three year game over that stretch forty
percent from the field. I've known you for a long
time and obviously you know you're not a conceited person
at all. But where did you put yourself in the
hierarchy of two guards at that time when you were
at the top of your game, right behind Mike.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
I'm not saying because if you because you talked that
shit does yeah, you know it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
We get the best with yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
no doubt.

Speaker 4 (42:23):
I mean I felt like I was there, you know,
I felt like I played both hands then and so
for my whole career playing basketball, I've always won every
team that I've been on. So born to Sacramento at
the time and having and at the top of the top,
you know, playing in the NBA and not have a

(42:43):
six team success was very difficult and you really kind
of understand you need players with you absolutely and not
saying that we didn't have any player. We had young
guys at that time, and back then we were playing
against grown.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Men who were some of the guys on the squad.

Speaker 5 (42:58):
Back Lionel Simmons.

Speaker 4 (43:01):
Had Walk Williams.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (43:06):
Yeah, we had Brian Grant, Michael but and that's.

Speaker 4 (43:09):
When Michael Michael Smith. Yeah, that's when the team started
getting better. When we when we drafted Brian Grant, Michael Smith.
We got o p from from Detroit at the time, and.

Speaker 5 (43:21):
I had been wanting to play with what was that Pagia,
but Paige.

Speaker 4 (43:26):
Was overseas and and and our team, you know, we
had to pay to get in. So we had drafted
him three four years and I was waiting to pay
play with him, but we couldn't get him over there
to play.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
So but we at the time, we.

Speaker 4 (43:41):
Got better, We got better, we got better, but we
had we had some good young players.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
We just wasn't ready for the league at the time
because it was grown man. Obviously, this is before player
empowerment and and and guys could really even say anything
about the situation. You just had to play it out.
Talks about I want to get out, or you talk
to management about it.

Speaker 4 (44:02):
Yeah, I would talk to management, but quietly, you know,
just give me an opportunity to go somewhere else. And
they just kept telling me, just wait, just wait, just wait,
we're gonna take care of you. We're gonna take care
of you. You stay, You're gonna be a king forever,
and and just kept waiting around and then they didn't
want to take care of it.

Speaker 5 (44:21):
So so it was tough. It was tough.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, ninety five All Star Game MVP talked to us
about that day.

Speaker 5 (44:28):
In that game, Oh, man, I was feeling it. Yeah,
I was feeling it.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
And I say, man, every time I touch it, I'm
gonna look at.

Speaker 5 (44:40):
That basket, you know what I mean. And Gary was
feeding me. And Gary had a pretty good game.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
That guy.

Speaker 4 (44:45):
He had like twelve thirteen cents at that time. But yeah, yeah,
it worked out for me. The guys was looking for him,
and I think I went like ten for twelve.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
For the game. What did you finish twenty twenty three? Three?

Speaker 5 (44:58):
Yeah, that's all you need game? Uh, yeah, it wasn't.
No forty fifties like they're doing that.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
But yeah, those are those All Star games were like real.
You guys really played. Yeah you played a little bit.
Yeah you played, especially in the fourth quarters. Yeah, no
question about it, no question about it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:14):
Ended up in Washington after second spent three years there
with Ra Strickland, Juan Howard, Ben Wallace.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Right now, that's a solid team. Yes, why didn't it work? Man?
I think sometimes those names when you hear those names,
when you look at that stat sheet, no questions.

Speaker 5 (45:30):
Yeah, Eddie Jordan's cool, last Eddie George.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
We're more on your homeboy than your man. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (45:38):
Yeah, yeah, you welcome, You're on paper. We were great,
you know what I mean. And I think at that time,
you know it's from the top o down. Yeah, in
the organization was was not on the same page at
that time. And uh but to this day, to this day, yeah,
and then they having trouble over there. And that's one city,
will boo you. The Chocolate City is the one city

(46:02):
that I think I had so much uh road rage
and anger. Yeah, because you would go out in d C.
And every dude think they can hoop, every dude think
they better than you know, you would have arguments down like, man, yeah, Bush,
you do that. Everywhere you went in d C. Everybody
thought that they can hoop. Everybody thought they could play

(46:24):
for the Wizards. You know what I mean, everybody have
thought they could play for the Wizards. Man, everywhere you went.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
If it wasn't for my tender a c. You know, everybody,
everybody could last stop Lakers O two. Uh you know
O G in the game you get a chance to
win a ring there. Uh in the midst of that
shock and Kobe ninasty run. What what did you see

(46:51):
between them and Phil and just that organization on your
way out? Phil was very calm and uh.

Speaker 4 (46:59):
They had won the championship two years before I got there,
and I felt like my time was, you know, getting
getting to an end. Had an opportunity, uh to go
to San Antonio Dallas. Nelly was trying to get me
back to go to Dallas at the time, and I said, hey, man,
I'm gonna go to l A.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (47:18):
They don't wanted to in a year to two years
in a row.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
Yeah, And and J. L.

Speaker 5 (47:22):
Righter was there year before, so I was replacing him.

Speaker 4 (47:26):
And uh, yeah, I've just you know, decided that I
was going to go to the Lakers, and Kobe and
Shaq relationship was great. I mean, that team was That
was another team that was really kind of they didn't
hang out, but you know, they had the respect.

Speaker 5 (47:40):
Uh you know each other on the court. But it
was a good time, no question.

Speaker 4 (47:46):
Phil was one of the best coaches to really kind
of keep your paw, your pause, I mean, your poise
and uh and uh yeah, let's just keep you you know,
confident and trying to work out situations on your own.
He always tried to have those teams.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
You figure you know. Yeah, me and my man was that.

Speaker 5 (48:08):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you was gonna kill him, Yeah yeah,
you was gonna kill him, yeah yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Yeah, we all wanted to kill him, you know what
I mean. But at that time, I think, you.

Speaker 4 (48:23):
Know, for me, you were a younger player at the
time and I had got a little older, and so
for me, it kind of helped me because when I
was on top, I had players behind me that really
supported me, you know what I mean, And I was like,
this is the time for me to support the team.
My time has passed, and so let me kind of

(48:43):
support the team and then just go along.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
For the ride. Man.

Speaker 4 (48:46):
So I felt like I could have done more, but
you know, hey, that was that was up to them.
But you know, I enjoyed the team.

Speaker 3 (48:53):
And two thousand and two, Yeah, I was in San Antonio, Yeah,
and it was that was bringing any the US Steve Smith.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
And I was back.

Speaker 5 (49:00):
Yeah, and I was gonna go to Sanatoya the Lakers.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
Yeah, yeah, but I decided man, and just yeah, what
did you see in Cod at that time?

Speaker 4 (49:11):
Hungry man? Yeah, man, just like you know, and they
talk about the face. The same thing with Mike, you know,
and especially the best scores.

Speaker 5 (49:20):
Like.

Speaker 4 (49:22):
They wanted the ball so bad, like it was I
just had to have it, like anything I needed to
do to get it. And he would he would fight
his butt off to try to get it. And you
know the triangle we were run the triangle.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
He knew ways to get the especially when and if
you really didn't know what it was.

Speaker 4 (49:46):
Oh, he would mess up to He'll have that ball
on the right side and you know, Shot could come
over and he wanted to get on that block and
he'll look and he'll pump fake there, throw it over there.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
Run It's like to that angle. So what she He
knew all the little duances of the thing.

Speaker 4 (50:05):
But he was Uh, he was great. The one thing
you know you respected about him, he did it in practice,
you know what I mean. And he did it before
anybody got there. He was the first one there working
on this game. If anybody did a move on him,
he was working on it. He was working on her
that day. So uh yeah, yeah he was cool.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Man.

Speaker 5 (50:24):
We had a great relationship and it was cool.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
Ones.

Speaker 5 (50:28):
No, we never did on one of one was then
in my career, I wasn't doing all.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
Yeah, icy my deeds, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
Your relationship with Nike a ba A tempo to sixteen,
you talk about your relationship with man.

Speaker 5 (50:45):
Yeah, I came in with uh wearing Adidas.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
Uh, everybody did. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (50:50):
I wanted to go to Nike and uh but the
deal didn't work out at that time. And then I
was at a didas I think for my first two
years and then then with Nike.

Speaker 5 (51:01):
But everybody want to Nikes.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Everybody was one of a lot of everybody. Then did
they go back to that last picture. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (51:08):
They used to take care of me, man, They just
used to take care of me. I had some nice
and I don't even know the names or the shoes.
Everybody like, man with them shoes.

Speaker 5 (51:17):
I said, Man, I.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Don't even know the name Aaron Bacon. Yeah, I don't
even know up tempos. Yeah them was hard. And then
I went to Georgia.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're still in the Jordan family.
Every once in a while I got to call them now, Man,
SI me.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
A box who He sounded like, yeah, sound like a
box Man. That Box used to cup all the time
about every two months. Yeah, yeah. Box Bro obviously recognized
as a Hall of Famer in twenty fourteen. But the
transition sometimes it's tough. What was your transition like from Okay,
I'm done to what's next? Or time down or family like,

(51:53):
what was your transition?

Speaker 5 (51:54):
I think it was easier for me because my years
in Washington.

Speaker 4 (52:01):
Golden State had pursued me to come and play before
I went to the Lakers, and I wanted to work
in the front office, and so they was at that
time Gary Saint Jean was there and we were going
to try to work out like a seven or eight
year deal where I play and then move into.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
The front office.

Speaker 4 (52:19):
And I just felt at that time, I was like well,
I want to get I want to maximize my money
as while I'm playing, because it wasn't a big deal
doing that eight year deal, so I said, let me play,
and I still want to come and work for you.
So once I once I retired, I took off probably
about a year, and then I started going to start

(52:40):
working for Golden State and worked for Golden State for
a while and that's when we you know, we got
you guys over there. But but yeah, it was it
was an easy transition for me, I think, but because
I still was around it but wasn't doing all of
the traveling. So it kind of implemented me a little
bit where I can, you know, be with my kids
and be at some some basketball games and do a

(53:03):
lot of little stuff like that.

Speaker 5 (53:04):
So it was pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
People don't understand one ship towards the end of your career.
The worst part of it is the traveling. No question,
you're missing so much or you're always traveling like that
was the reason after in Golden State when I won
that last year, I don't want to travel. I was
missing so much time with my kids. People understand that, yeah,
you travel so much.

Speaker 4 (53:21):
You don't even know until you sit down and I
can remember how you know, we used to travel great.
All of a sudden when you become a citizen man,
you gotta go through.

Speaker 5 (53:30):
The a.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
What's going on? You can't random I gotta take my
shoes off. That's the one thing about Jack too. Jack's
bag on every Golden State PLAYE made stunk the whole plane.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
And I didn't remember when we used to go to Canada.
The whole team go there and I'm still sitting in
customs by three hours. They going through all my stuff, tooth, breast,
too paste, everything, like, bro, it.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
Ain't that bad. I ain't killing nobody doing that. I ain't.
I just gotta be a little stuff with it.

Speaker 3 (53:59):
You know, we like as players. We know there's certain
players doing your NBA career that those guys that everybody
cool with that you know, like doing our career, he
gonna be working, You're gonna be working for an organizations.
It was one of those guys that everybody everybody liked,
everybody cool with. I think he's gonna be working for
a team with his career.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Like you're the type of person helped bridge gaps. You
still spoke our lingo, but then you could also speak
the office level at the time. And that's important too,
because not a lot of organizations have that are understanding
the importance of that. It's always kind of like a
talk down situation. But when you have a mitch there
that can translate on a player's mind what we're trying
to get to on a higher level, that shit goes. No,

(54:37):
it was.

Speaker 4 (54:38):
It was special, man, because I would I love to
be around you guys, because I would come down all
the time at the practice. Yeah, I remember Jack asked
me came down to one person, you know, man, because
I think at the time somebody was telling you that
that they got you, like man who traded for me.

Speaker 5 (54:53):
I'm like, come on, Jack, we ain't gonna do that.
A doing that man, come on, man, you know who.

Speaker 1 (54:58):
Got you know? Yeah, exact, let me go back. We
know he took credit, but we know you, bro. I
was scared to make that deal. We're like, man, come on, we.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
Need some fire man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm bad. I'm
glad we had you in Christian office. Yeah, somebody with
some experience.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Exactly. When you sit back, now that's a Hall of
famer and the accolade you have, like what comes to
mind about your career.

Speaker 4 (55:23):
What's so dag quick fast right? Fourteen years fourteen fourteen years?
And if I look back, man, I retired twenty two
years ago. That's crazy. I just can't fathom it.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
I know.

Speaker 5 (55:36):
Sometimes I wake up and be like, man, I got
to go to a game, you know what I mean?
I got a gain to night, like, then my legs
feel up. That's a lot.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
Then you're trying to put it. That's a lot. That
first step out of bed. Yeah, oh no, that's not true.
That's a lot, man, Nobody calling me whatever. Who do
you feel in this current game right now is let's
take Lebron out the pitch because he's almost done. Who
do you feel is you know, best player, top two
players in the game right now?

Speaker 4 (56:04):
Oh man, it's such a hard question because you know,
you got so many great players. I love Kevin Durant.
I love what he I mean, he's one of those scores.
He's like Iceman, like he can score from all across
the court.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
He does it in so many ways.

Speaker 4 (56:22):
You know, we got to talk about Curry like he's
one of one, you know, And I tell people all
the time.

Speaker 5 (56:29):
Curry is the the best worst shot taker in the world.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
He makes them.

Speaker 4 (56:38):
And when you see him take shots, now you don't
think you're like, oh man, that's a bad shot, Like, man,
is that going to go in?

Speaker 5 (56:45):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (56:45):
So that takes practice and and coaching. I coached at
Saint John's coaching the younger players. They don't understand that.
They just think Curry just stepped out too. And I
can do it too, and think about it. He's he
doesn't look like he's that strong. Shoot that way we were.
Some people have to throw that shot, and for him
to make that look like a shot is very remarkable.

(57:08):
And then you got some young players coming with the
young fello out at ok Se man that's.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Doing his thing. You know, I like me in Minnesota.

Speaker 5 (57:16):
I like Booker. I love Anthony Edwards.

Speaker 4 (57:19):
Yes, I love his wag, what he stands for, and
he's continued to I saw him as a sophomore in
high school and I was like, WHOA.

Speaker 5 (57:29):
Back then I thought he was gonna be nice.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (57:32):
But yeah, it's so many great players, man, a lot
of time, a lot of talent that I like to watch,
uh and see guys.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
I think to speak to your point with Steph my
founder year there I used to really enjoy sitting and
watching him and KD shoot after practice because everything that
everyone thinks is a bad shot or might be luck,
they work on it. That's right, the off balance, the
off hand, all the deep one footed falling out of bounds,
like they train and shoot those shots on daily, every

(58:00):
single day. I was there him and Katie after practice
on the same court working on this stuff. You would
see a six three dude doing it, and you would
see a seven foot doing the same ship.

Speaker 5 (58:08):
And you you got to give, you know, Clay his respect.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
Three shots out of one hundred, Claire shoot a hundred
shots after practice, miss two or three.

Speaker 5 (58:18):
Miss two or three? Man, I mean he's handling it
with grace.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
I know.

Speaker 4 (58:24):
It's just like any player when you when you get
to a point where they you know, they put you
on the bench. I think the organization is really trying
to find out find a way to make sure that
they don't disrespect him anyway. But I think, you know,
he had a good game the other night. For me,
I always said, I think, I think what what would

(58:46):
help him?

Speaker 3 (58:46):
Man?

Speaker 5 (58:47):
And I love him to death.

Speaker 4 (58:48):
I think you know, getting some inside shots, you know
what I mean, and not you know, relying on all
just the three point shot I think will help him.
But but I love clay Man. One of the guys
that I remember, Mark jacksonally said it years ago that
they were the best two shooters that he and we
were like, man, come on, man, you talk about and

(59:08):
now you see it.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
That's true.

Speaker 4 (59:10):
And and Mark made that statement when it when it
was a popular when yeah the baby, and I agree
with him, best two shooters.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
Who did Money bring Rico and you to Saint Jones
when he was there? No, Rico was there before. Yeah, yeah,
I was saying something about going back with Money out there.
Yeah he was.

Speaker 5 (59:33):
I think they had talked about it, yea at one
point in time, but didn't. It didn't work out.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
Rico understand his his knowledge of the game and been
around the game and the way people gravitate to him
and respect him because I feel like mentioned you know,
because you've been around the game. To me, these days,
it's less about X and Os. It's more about relating
to the players question. And you get these players to
believe in the ultimate team goal. And Ricos up one
of the best in the world and doing that.

Speaker 5 (59:58):
And we were the one who was the first one
who hired Rico.

Speaker 4 (01:00:01):
You know, we were the first one who's hired Rico
at Golden State because we saw that, you know what
I mean, he had a great relationship with with Ball
and all you guys, and he was working our players
way then. So you know, we we feel good about that.
We gave him the start. Yeah last night, happy birthday,

(01:00:24):
said nothing about us.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Yeah, well, Mitch, we appreciate you. This is the last
home stretch now, so the first thing to come to mind,
let us know we got start you off with a
tough one. Okay, top five shooting guards of all time, man,
and you better be in there, in.

Speaker 5 (01:00:36):
There, no question about that, no question.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
M j Uh. What else you got?

Speaker 5 (01:00:44):
You got Kobe, no question, you got d Wade. Uh,
you got me and Clyde.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
There you go put in there?

Speaker 5 (01:00:54):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
You gave.

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
Because well I put it this way. Usually they would
have me out of there. They have Reggie in there,
So I put.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Myself in there. So since went in down and just
give us your pin on. Regie Miller. Tough man. He
was a tough, tough player.

Speaker 4 (01:01:15):
He was different from any other guy because you couldn't
give him space and he was a dead eye shooter. Uh,
and so he would run you around so many screens.
I can remember the first time I played Reggie. I
don't know, he wouldn't cut his nails.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Or something like Hamton. Yeah, he said.

Speaker 4 (01:01:33):
He scratched me up so bad the first time I played.
And then I remember I say Reggie. I ain't say
Reggie to him, but I said to myself, I'm not
gonna cut my nails next time.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Yeah, I'm going to do the same thing, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 5 (01:01:47):
Scratch me like that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
I bruise easy, you know what I mean. So I
had to make sure I cut my name. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:56):
But Reggie Richard is a good friend too, great player.
We played on the lip team together, had some great battles, uh,
but got.

Speaker 5 (01:02:03):
A lot of respect. Childhood crush, childhood crush.

Speaker 4 (01:02:09):
Jenny Jackson. Man, remember Jenny j Janney Jackson came to
Lottter Hill Mall. She came to Lotdter Hill Mall, fl
lot of their floor.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
How old were you, man?

Speaker 5 (01:02:21):
I don't know, I can't remember, man. I know she
was looking at me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
That was that was flat top to Yeah. I had
some ways waves back then. Okay, I ain't get the
curl until I got.

Speaker 5 (01:02:40):
I know she was looking at that eye cunt.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
That's good, that's funny. The next question is best basketball shoot.
But you said you didn't really pay attention to sh
I'm a flipping I'm a flippant. Okay, what's your what's
your one album that you could play from front to back?

Speaker 4 (01:02:53):
Oh man, let's see definitely the run DMC album. Uh
it was so at that time. Let's see l L
cool J. I keep going back to him, but no,
l L was nice, Uh cool.

Speaker 5 (01:03:08):
Mo d its tough d West Yeah, come on man,
yeah yeah, and we all played uh n.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
W A, I'm back and forth. You know. I love
when B d K and L L was going. Oh
yeah right there, Yeah that was good. Most underrated player
of your generation. Underrated player me say that? Yeah yeah yeah,
we guilty pleasure.

Speaker 4 (01:03:43):
Oh man, you should love an La ice cream. I
don't eat that dumb more. I'm a plat based Yeah yeah,
yeah that I went plant based by eight years ago.
I love it, man, now, I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
You can feel it.

Speaker 5 (01:03:55):
I can feel it, man, And no joys hurt look good?

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Nothing?

Speaker 5 (01:04:00):
Yeah, bro, I eat a lot though, but just you
know just working out, so you don't.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Want none of that good old soul food back there.

Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
I wish I could.

Speaker 4 (01:04:13):
I know you guys have a good time over there. Yeah,
I got a little salad question. It's hard to get
some plant based food in Indiana.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
And too many plants out here.

Speaker 5 (01:04:24):
Yeah, I ain't eat nothing, but hummus.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
I love is good. One thing you wish you were
better at?

Speaker 4 (01:04:35):
One thing I wish I was better at mm hmm.
I was saying that if I didn't play ball, I
was gonna be a singer. Everybody so if at R
and b RB, Yeah, I wish I was a better
singer because I'm really good in the shower.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
Everybody is. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
Yeah, if you could see one game us on our show,
who would it be? But but you have to help
us get your answer on the show. I have to
get by it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
What you have to help us get the answer. So
somebody you know, okay, somebody okay, haven't been on here
that you know real well been on here.

Speaker 5 (01:05:15):
Let's see what would that be?

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
Man, Molly, tim there's a few yeah, my guys yet
and I just seen him in the airport.

Speaker 4 (01:05:25):
What oh no, got his number two. You got to
get Tim Buggs. I would help with that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
I would help money. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you got some
stories to Mully, got some story mitch Man. We appreciate
your time, thank you for coming through and obviously, like
I said, with always a lot of respect for your
game and we're you know, the real ones. Know. I
appreciate you, Bro, appreciate you, Miss Rinchman.