March 4, 2025 • 46 mins
ATS UNPLUGGED is back, with Matt and Stak revisiting the viral ALL THE SMOKE episode featuring Vernon Maxwell. Mad Max's unfiltered tales of NBA chaos are still breaking the internet—from locker-room mayhem to his battles with Michael Jordan that cemented his legendary status.
The guys then pivot to today's hottest headlines: analyzing the Phoenix Suns' alarming decline and the potential destinations for Devin Booker and Kevin Durant, decoding Detroit's shocking surge in the Eastern Conference standings, and reacting to LeBron James' comments on Anthony Edwards' reluctance to embrace the face of the league role.
Matt also sits down with NBA photography legend Andrew Bernstein for an intimate career retrospective. Discover how Bernstein captured the Magic vs. Bird rivalry, immortalized Jordan’s greatness, and developed a transformative bond with Kobe Bryant—including never-before-shared stories about the Mamba’s obsessive work ethic.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to Unplugged. We're in the midst of our
la all the smoke run Jack. We got a chance
to sit down with Vernon mad Maxwell at all start,
and that ship is going crazy right now.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Man, tell the truth, y'all got a nigga out here
for working. Y'all just wanted to make me work more
while we're seeing there.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
That's what it is. You don't even come in on
the mad Match.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Yeah, I'm gonna do that, but I just want to
say that first I knew I was in here. Let's
get this nigga on right now to shoot Unplugged.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Why he here?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So we got a text him thirty times Sunday right Bill,
Mindelia that you do be taking my.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Bad Another stat though, is he broke Kendrick Perkins motherfucker's
on that episode, which I never thought could happen. Is
there any truth to her keen slapping the shit out
of you at halftime? One time said there's a lot
of truth to it, A lot of truth.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Yes, that motherfucker Likerapers has on the ground, And oh
my goodness, hit me so goddamn heart wisdom, Seattle, every
damn things having Seattle, God damn. But wisdom shadow was
(01:10):
I was mine. I was having a bad first half,
and ship we was playing Gary in them and Sean
Kemp and all the motherfuckers. They had a squad over
that motherfucker. Uh double deuces, Ricky Pierce, they had all
they had a squad or whatever. Dannum barrows they have
a squad. They just had a bunch of motherfuckers can
Bay so Derrick m Kid. Then now I'm having a
(01:33):
bad first half. I'm like, damn, you know how long
that fucking walk is Seattle Locking. Yeah, It's like motherfucker
walking fucking this ship around the blobber, round this damn
building to come back in here. I mean they're walking
so long.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Yeah, So I'm mind.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
When I'm getting mad, I should spend.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I'm walking.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
I'm spitting in the niggas, Uh Sam sitting up and
Robbert beside me. Man, it's gonna be alright, MAT's go on,
Man gonna be okay. Man, Fuck that ship, man, these
niggas ain't giving me the ball.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
This nigga won't pass the ball. Man, Fuck this ship.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
So dream behind me and dream like Maxie, what the
fuck is you doing? That Ship's not professional? Don't do
that ship. Stop that ship.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I was like, dream man, fuck that ship. I'm tired
of you too.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
Why would I say that ship?
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Now, I shouldn't have said that, because he came in
and put this goddamn hands up, bigger hands on me
in the locker room. Oh man, he.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Slapped the ship out. Then I saw.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Coming from the back wall man, way from the back.
They slapped ship out of me so hard. I mean,
I thought, I'm motherfucker punched me. He slapped out of
men hand.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Ship man, slap ship out of me. Man. Then they
killed me. But but but but hey, but knowing you,
you had to do what you do well.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
You try to get you, try to get yourself together.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I'm glad you're.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Well. I got you know, I went crazy and that
motherfucker everybody was running and scrambling that. There's a lot
of motherfucker scrambling and that motherfucker when I got there
doing I was doing. I was crazy.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
It's only one thing after nigga, like, that's left you got.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I'm gonna get that too.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Always on the road, we wave mother fucking way all
the way across the country. We all got there.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
We way over there in Seattle. Damn Houston. I know
what ship.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Next is a Star bro, He's a star. I knew
it was gonna be a funny episode. I haven't watched
the episode probably two or three times. I haven't watched
no other episode we've done two or three times. I
promise you haven't. I probably watched Kobe once twice, but
this episode is my most watched.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Newest member to the All the Smoke Family, Max, Welcome
burn Out. Oh my god, we have him back soon, Yes, sir,
Hot Out of Phoenix. Budenholzer recently had Devin Booker come
to his office and told his book he needs to
tone it down. Butenholzer, Booty Holzer, he wants his voice.
He wants his voice to be more prominent. Bootenholzer wants that,
(04:18):
which is crazy. I've never heard of coach tell a
star player that he needs to tone it down. And
I heard the book talk after that and saying that
a lack of communication feels like it's one of the
reasons why this team has struggled. And he's tired of
here and let's get him next game. At some point,
you got to drive hi motherfucking line and we got
to win. Now, Stack, you had Butenholzer in San Antonio,
very impressive regular season record throughout his career, but hasn't
(04:40):
been able to get it done in the playoffs. I'm
not sure if his style translates anymore. But also at
the same time, Devin Bookers had seven head coaches in
his ten years. That's Phoenix a laundry list? Is this ownership?
Is it? Butenholzer has the game passed him? What do
you see out of Phoenix since the ship show over there?
(05:02):
First and foremost I mean you.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Said, is it just looked like he hasn't been able
to build a real relationship with nobody. You know, him
and Budd don't have a type of relationship They've had
that time to to have the respect. You know, Tim
Duncan and Great Poppers was together for a while. So
when Pop cut him off or you know, made made
Tim be the reason why he can get on other guys,
you know, Tim embraced it because they had a relationship.
(05:23):
You know what I'm saying with the respect was mutual,
I don't think the respect is mutual because they haven't
been around each other long enough. Then again, Bro Bud
was an offensive coach when I was there. He wasn't
the coach for communicating. That was Mike Brown. Mike Brown
communicate with guys, and he was at the bud was
strictly for offense. He didn't come in the locker room
to talk and get guys ready to play. Or he
(05:44):
wasn't the guy to come in get your shot. You
know what I'm saying. He wasn't that guy, but he would.
He's still a great coach because he grew, he came
up under Pop, and he had had some success in
the league. But to say this for Devns, I mean
for books point of it's impossible for him to even
sit there or even want to grow with this team
(06:05):
when you don't have a coach that you can build with,
because that's where you really get your confidence. When I
talk about Don Nelson all the time, like I bounced
around too and played with different coaches. But that's why
he's my favorite, because when I got down was they
were spending some time with him, and he also gave
me that confidence. And having a coach like that was
just coming in and you ain't been building no rapport with.
Speaker 5 (06:21):
Him, It's not gonna work, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
And that's and you know what, Matt, that's the reason
why it's other turmoil going on in the organization, You
know what I'm saying, because it's not good on that bench,
and I can see, I can see all those guys
trying to get up out of them.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
You know, obviously It'sha's idea to bring in Bradley Beal
on a note trade deal. I think that clogged up
the whole entire trade deadline for this Phoenix team. But
not that Bradley Beil is a bad player, because I
definitely know he's not. But it was just from the
outside looking in, we knew you're bringing him three straight scorers,
that that wasn't gonna work, and they wanted to move
him at the debt deadline and possibly get Jimmy Butler.
(06:55):
That didn't work, and then you throw Kd's name in there,
and now you got KD a little because he never knew.
You know why am I being thrown in this ship
when I didn't ask or no one talked to me
about it. Katie's got one year left. I'm not sure
how much time Booker has left. But do you see
they're these guys getting out of Phoenix at the end
of the year.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I hope so I would like to see him like
that because I want to see these guys win. You know,
Book is a great player, Katie's a great player. I
don't think it's gonna happen there. You know, once that
started happing with the side, the riffs start happened on
the sideline with the coach. Then next thing you know,
he's gonna be players talking about the coach. The next
you know, the players gonna be going to the office
talking about So it's too much friction. Everybody got to
be on the same page to win, and they not
(07:33):
know what's loosed up.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I mean, what are we two, three, maybe four years
move from James Jones making a bunch of great moves
and getting Phoenix on the map and all of a sudden,
now one bad move can fuck it all of them
bucket all up. I mean, chemistry matters. Is this an
issue with new owners coming into the game and kind
of being fans and not really looking at the business
of basketball. We see it with HBO, We've seen him
(07:55):
with the new ownership with Dallas. It's interesting because again
that that at the top is where everything starts, and
if they're not basketball savvy, and understanding the game, and
they're fans of the game, and sometimes that ship just
doesn't work. But if if, if, I love to see
Booker get out. But if KD leaves Jack was he
(08:15):
thirty six? How was Kitty thirty six years old? He'll
be up for an extension after next season. He's probably
going to get a lot of money for that extension,
maybe a three year extension. Where do you do you
see any any suitable landing spots for KD? Yeah, I
would love to see KD in Dallas with Kyrie and Ad.
They can happen, if they possibly could make that happen.
I also would like to see book or somewhere Where's
Booker from Bookers from the Midwest? Right Detroit? Hey, I
(08:40):
would love to see him go back. I would love
to go back home.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
And with the way they going, they start building, you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I think that'll be a great piece to keep that
organization going in the right direction.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
Wow, he's home. That'd be I'll be grateful.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Book That'd be crazy. I didn't think about that today.
A and D book not even shout out to Detroit.
We shall see, Yeah, I mean, you know, since we're
talking about that. Did Detroit this give the Detroit pissing
some love man thirty one wins in the last two
seasons prior to this year. I think they're currently sitting
at what thirty two to thirty three wins if I'm
not mistaken, sixth in the West eight straight wins. Kate
(09:17):
Cuttingham as an odds in for most improved Player. What
have you seen from this team? Jack? I mean top
ten in scoring, top five and assists. Beasley has been
a big addition to this team, averaging sixteen points youot
over forty two percent from the three point line. One
of the Thompson twins is they're making his presence felt.
Thoughts on Detroit and JB. Shout out to JB because
(09:39):
I thought of unjust firing from Cleveland right he was
having to see solid over in Cleveland, gets fired and
heads on over to Detroit and completely has changed his
team around. You have a bunch of guys on that team.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
You could tell they all playing for so contract and
that's just what is you know, and you know contracts
where the guys are playing for respect. You know what,
Guys that don't want to be on the sorry team,
don't want to go through what they went through last year,
Like you could tell whatever it is that everybody on
this team is playing for something. Even the coach, he's
coaching for something, you know what I'm saying, for where
they did him last year. So I think I love
and I would love to be a part of stuff
(10:09):
like that, you know what I'm saying, because we have
a reason. The pride is that a passion is there
and that's why they having success. Along with k Cunningham
showing that he belongs to be talked about in the
top player the top players in the league.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
Also, so we're talking about Detroit A sorry, one of
the twins been bothering man.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
He's been playing.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I think defensively, him and his brother are the probably
two best defensive players in the league.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
And the effort that they give. What do you think
about both of them? I love the I mean, those
kids are Northern California kids. I think they're from Odeo.
I'm not mistaken. They took the overtime Elite angle and obviously,
you know, being twins and me having twins on my own,
and it's just fun to see them do what they're doing.
Two of the most athletic explosive guys, dogs play with
high energy and again big part of the rotation in
(10:49):
Detroit and obviously another big part of the rotation in Houston.
So he crossed them and he turned he turned Tatum around. Yeah,
this is interesting. I remember seeing this a while ago,
that the Thompson's twins mom made them commit to this. Uh,
you know, just kind of accountability as far as push up,
(11:11):
sit ups, caf raises, reading, just being productive young teenagers
at the time, and they stuck with that. And now
we see these guys and I think their second year,
right second year, really starting to come out of their
shell and being major players in this game now. So
I'm happy for JB. I'm happy for Kid, I'm happy
for Detroit. Detroit has been struggling for a while, and
(11:35):
you know the fact that they've done this the right
way through drafts and and free agency and got a
coach that they really like and the players have bought into.
If they can land to Devin Booker, look.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Out, will we see history one day? Well the twins
are both first team All Defense. That'll be crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, there's I mean, this is interesting again, these guys
played you know, ote and you along I think Rob
Dilly and who the other guy saw took the OTV rut.
And we look at college basketball and all these crazy
stupid ass rules with juco players that could play two
years and then still coming and be freshmen, and now
they're giving people five years. And this Alabama team is
(12:14):
number one in the country but they have a twenty
six year old and a twenty five year old. Like
this shit is crazy. But I say all that to
say is there's just so many different lanes to the
NBA now, whether you want to do what you know
Brandon Jennings did and Mellow did and go over the
water for your one year and then come back and
do your thing if you want to actually go to college,
but you know, the way colleges college is a mess
(12:36):
right now. And then obviously OTE shout out to Ote
and what they've been able to create over there and
the kids they be of operating tunities too. But it's
really interesting, Jackie, as someone who came straight to the league,
do you see the league in the next few years
kind of moving that rule and allowing kids to make
that jump again? I hope.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
So, I mean, you know, college is very beneficial for
a lot of kids now, but you know of people
still don't want to go to school, you know what
I mean. And that's just what it boils down to.
If I can make the money and not go to school.
Because then again, you got so many young black millionaires
now that's that's making money. And if they didn't get
their skills all they talent from education, you know, they
(13:15):
sitting at home, sitting in front of computers making blogs
and stuff like that. So definitely you should be able
to go to you know, my all my thing is
if you can go to war the A team, you
should be able to play basketball in the sport to
take care of your family.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
That Recently, Lebron James was asked about Anthony Edwards' comments
about being the face of the league and who is
and who isn't? Who would want to be Take a
look at this clip and ain't trying to deal with that?
Speaker 6 (13:41):
And uh, I mean Channy Fry said it the other
day too, Like.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
I mean, it's unfortunate, but like.
Speaker 6 (13:51):
I don't know, when you why do you want to
be the face of a league when all the all
the all the people that you know that cover our
game and talk about our game on the day to
day basic everybody we had that responsibility. That's it's just weird.
It's weird energy from the people that.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
You know.
Speaker 6 (14:10):
I don't know, but changing he said it, he said
it perfectly. Couldn't set it no better. But Ant said
he don't want it.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
I didn't.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
I mean, obviously I didn't ask for it, but I
knew there was a responsibility for me not only to
my family, my friends, my community, and and and whoever
that was gonna follow my my my journey throughout my career,
not only in Ohio when I started there, but all
all over America and all over the world when I
(14:36):
traveled all over the world. So I've always taken that
seriously and understand and understood from the beginning what what
being a professional.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Was all about and being a role model was all about.
Speaker 6 (14:47):
So tried to hold that with the utmost uh respect
and honor. And but I feel Ant, I understand, I
completely understand.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
This is weird and when it comes to that, so
last question, appreciate it, Jack thoughts.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
I kind of look at that both ways. There's a
lot of people that are covering basketball. I talk about
the game that never played. So I agree with him.
They say some wild shit. But then again, to whom
much is given, much is required, you know what I mean.
I know a lot of people that would die to
be called the face of the NBA and be able
to deal with the slander, whether it's good or bad
(15:27):
and not and then just let it, you know, dust
it off their shoulder and keep it going.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
So I look at it both ways.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yeah, you got a lot of people talk about a
lot of stuff that have never been in the NBA
locker room, that couldn't make a church league team a
church league team. I get it, but they and they
say some crazy things. But at the same time, like
I said, to whom much is given, much is required.
I would rather deal with that, you know what I mean,
and be the face of the league than not have
that opportunity.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
To be there. I mean, I think it's just such
a huge badge of honor to be the face of anything,
particularly the face of the NBA. And I think we
live in the day and age now where the negativity
is always going to be louder than the love. And
I think that's the aspect of social media and clickbait
media come with. It's just a lot of jealousy and
a lot of hate. You take Jason Tatum, take Jason
(16:10):
Tatum's resume. Why is he not the face so so?
Colin Cowherd just say he's paraphrase, he's just kind of boring.
But look at his accolades, Look what he does on
the court, Look what he's accomplished, you know, and not
wanting it. But you know, you never know if he's
serious or joking around. But it's just a different it's
a different time now, it's a different time. I think
(16:30):
guys like Lebron and KD who came in in a
different era are kind of hurt from a standpoint of
the way the game's being talked about. But they also
have to realize, Jack, I'll say this, sometimes when you're
in a fuck the relationship, you don't know it's fucked
up until you're out of it. Right, the product of
the NBA is just not very good right now. Playoffs
heats up, but the regular season for the last few
(16:52):
years hasn't been good. And I'm sure it's hard for
guys like Lebron and KD and stuff who are at
the end of incredible runs. Three the greatest players will
ever see, possibly all three Top ten guys the game's
ever seen, but towards the back end of their career.
Now towards the end of their career, like the product,
this newer age is coming in with a different vibe
and like KG says, a newer lens and it's just
(17:13):
not the same thing. But sometimes I think if Katie
and Lebron were able to take a step out of
the situation and take themselves away from the current game
they're in and they love and kind of look at
what it is on a day to day basis, they
would understand what the outside people are looking at. I
don't ever recall when we were playing that people were
saying this is a bad product. I don't recall that.
I mean to late nineties, early two thousands, the game
(17:36):
was the game and it was incredible. So again I
get where he's coming back, you know, And like you said,
a lot, a lot is given, a lot is going
to be required, and the hate will always be louder
than the love. But I just think it's such a
huge honor to be the face of the league, and
to me, I think Jason Tatum should be at the
top of that list. There's a lot of international players
(17:56):
that are on that list, and obviously Anthony Edwards getting
his mind right. As great as he is, you see
young shit coming out of him every once in a while,
like when he was disappointed or mad about being double team.
I mean, that's an honor, bro, you know what I mean? Like,
how do you get better from being double team? So
I think is at the top of that list for
American players. I think Job would be listed as one
(18:16):
of those guys if he wasn't in so much off
the court dumb shit. We have a lot of American talent,
but these guys have to embrace this because you would
never hear someone like a Mike or Kobe or whoever
was next in line, even the Lebron because he wasn't
talking about it when he was handed you the crown
of being the face of the league. It's just a
different energy now, and you know, hopefully these young guys
start to embracing and say fuck everything else because it
(18:37):
doesn't really matter. Right. Transitioning into some postseason awards, do
some picks want to put some push ups on the line.
Let's see, Jack, Let's see what is going on. Let's
see and I'll give you first pick for everything. Regular
season MVP. Who do you got, Come on, man, fly guy.
SGA is the heavy favorite and mind five hundred, with
(19:01):
Nikola Jokic next at three point fifty, and then after
that it's a it's a landslide, so it looks like
it's gonna be a two man race. SGA is incredible,
nothing you can say. It's got his team at the
top of the Western Conference by the average thirty for
thirty years straight. But then on the flip side with
Jokic has been able to do team a little lord,
what is his team third or fourth? Third in the
Western Conference? But his numbers have been better than his
(19:22):
previous MVP nods, So I think this is is a
two man race. You're gonna go with SGA. Cl guy,
I'm gonna go with SGA two. So no loser there.
Most improved saw the list Here at the top is
Kate Cuttingham minus two forty. Next up my UCLA brother
(19:43):
Norman pal Out here with the LA Clippers at plus
two twenty, and then there's a huge fall off, so
again this is a two man race. Again, Jack, who
you got? You know, I don't eat what I do
like k cunning down. I like Kate a lot too,
and he's probably gonna get it. But just to throw
in a dark horse and we can't agree with everything same,
I'm gonna go with Norman pal I'm gonna go with
my Brewin brother next up defensive player of the year
(20:06):
with Wimby being knocked out, and move someone else other
players up to the top. Evan Mobley, who's on Cleveland,
who has what they have a top five defense, top five,
top six defense, he's a plus one fifteen. Then Jaron
Jackson at one forty five, and then there's a steep
fall off after that. I don't see Rudy Rudy Gobert, Yeah,
(20:27):
plus ten thousand, right pass on him this year? Jack
who you got just the.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Way Cleves has been playing, and you know, I satid
they've been all year.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
You got it.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Defense wings perhaps definitely wins games, and you got to
give it to the guy in the middle over there
has been holding the down.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Gonna go with Evan Mobley. I'm not mad at that.
I'm gonna go with the dark horse here, and I
feel like a guy that, if I'm not mistaken, has
never made an All NBA defensive team but plays on
the number one team in the Western Conference, someone who
can guard one through four, a body full of muscle.
Lou Dort, Yeah, I coached him in the Iverson game. Yeah,
loud solid. He's really come a long way with this
(21:04):
game as his efficiency shooting, but just his lockdown in
cinternation defense. If he's not Defensive Player of the Year,
which he probably won't be, I hope that he is
a first team All NBA Defender six Man of the Year, Jack,
I'm gonna go first this time at minus one sixty.
I'm gonna go with my little leprechaun homie out there
in Boston, Peyton Pritcher as the next NBA six Man year.
(21:29):
Also other guys Malik Beasley's on that, DeAndre Hunter, nas
Reed a Men, Thompson, Russell Westbrook. Those are the top
six betting favorites. Who you going with? Man?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
You know they've just been trying to give Peyton Pitcher
something for the last three four years, trying to get it.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I'm just saying, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Everything, the champions had two shots from half court. Now
he the half court king, Like this is crazy. I'm
going with a million. Timson bro I'm going.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
On the Twins. Yeah, I'm You're definitely, but half court
Kings don't listen to that hate over here. I can't.
Let's go where are we last, but not least Coach
of the Year coach Kenny Atkinson. Man shout out to
what he's been able to do over there in Cleveland
after leaving the Warriors bench. I think he turned down
a couple jobs leading up to this because he knew
they were bullshit as teams and he probably would have
(22:22):
been fired quickly. Made the right move. But he's the
betting favorite of minus five hundred JB. Bickerstaff plus four
twenty five, and then after that it's a landslide. So
I think it's a two man race here, Jack, who
you got? I'm going to email man. I like what
he's doing in Houston.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Man, I just I just you know, I'm from Texas board,
but he may you know, has been through a lot
and to bounce back to what he's doing with these
young guys, got these guys playing the way he's supposed to.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I like it. I think he's one of the best
coaches in the NBA. Agreed. I think the way he
thinks and I think just the way he approached the
game when he played had given him a huge upper
hand on this coaching run. And what he's been able
to do with a very young team in Houston and
keep all those guys together. I feel like they're a
piece away from really being a threat in the West.
But I'm not mad at this. I'm gonna go with JB.
(23:08):
Bickerstaff Man being fired for Cleveland for pretty much no
reason and then be able to go over to Detroit
and completely flip this organization around. They won thirty one
games prior to this year and two years combined, and
they're at, you know, thirty two thirty three wins this
year with twenty five games to go. And again, Detroit
deserves this, so I'm excited for the city of Detroit.
(23:28):
So I'm gonna go with JB. Bicker staff I got
a chance to sit down with one of the most
legendary photographers in the game. Has caught your favorite players
for the last thirty or forty years. Take a look
at my sit down interview with Andy Bernstein. I'd like
to welcome to the show man one of my favorite photographers,
a guy that's been in the business for forty plus
(23:49):
years and just retired. I couldn't believe I heard the news. Well,
welcome to the show, legendary Andrew Bernstein.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Thank you, Matt. Appreciate to see men too. You've officially
retired after three years. Yeah, it took a little while,
I mean four decades.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Well we see MJ return it at interview. Are you
done done? No? No.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
I went to see my back specialty specialist and he said,
you know, I think you got to walk off the.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Court while you still can walk off the court. Now.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
My back was a mess, and I've been struggling the
last few years with the traveling and just the schlepping
around a lot. And you know, I still love doing it.
And I left when I felt it was time to go.
But the NBA was great about sort of weaning me
off the court less road games. I was doing like
every third game at home. So it was a good
time to.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Go forty three years and around all sports, not just NBA.
We were talking before we got on air about you know,
my team is the Niners, and you're talking about I
go back with Montana and Rice and Steve Young at
the old Candlestick Parks. I mean, what got you in
to photography, but particularly sports photography.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Well, I was a kid I was fourteen, my dad
bought me my first camera, and I wasn't interested at
all in photography, but we took a trip to the
Western United States up in Brooklyn, so the furthest west
avergot was New Jersey. So what I got to see,
you know, the Grand Canyon and Yosemite and all the
great national parks. And he taught me all the basics
(25:11):
for a photography, but you know, it was film cameras
and all manual stuff and all that business, and I
had to just learn on the fly, and I just
took to it. It was kind of like maybe the
first time you went out on the court when you
were a kid and you just fell in love with
the game and bouncing the ball.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
And that's how I felt.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
And I took it, you know, I took it seriously
in high school, and I went to college for it
at UMass in the shadow of doctor J I came
in after him and then transferred out here in my
junior year to a place called Arts Center and became
an assistant for Sports Illustrated. And that's really where I
got my on the job training, going NBA games and
(25:50):
learning how to light arenas like poly Pavilion and near
and dear to your heart, and the Forum and of
course the old sports arena for how hockey and basketball primarily. Now,
I was just in the right place at the right time.
I you know, was there at the beginning of showtime
and the NBA was starting to ramp up their need
for photography and uh, you know, Brooklyn guy, I have
(26:13):
a little bit of moxie in me and was able
to kind of push the door open a little bit,
kind of create some opportunity for myself.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
I mean, looking back, and again, you'd literally just retired
in May, but can you give me possibly your top
three to five moments you feel like you've personally covered. Ooh,
that's a good one.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Well, I mean, MBA wise, I could give you a
million of them, a little probably fifty of them.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
But you know, I was there for Kirk Gibson's home run.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
I was working for the Dodgers back then, and that
was monument eighty eight game won the World Series. It
felt like I felt like, literally that the stadium was
going to crack in half. It was so unbelievable. And
then you know, Jordan's first championship, which at the time
was pretty monumental because it took them seven years to
(26:59):
get there, but none of us knew, of course, that
he had by more coming. All the time I spent
with Showtime with you know, Riley and Magic and all
those guys, it was just amazing. And of course it
was with Phil Phil Jackson for all eleven of his championships.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
So I was the first guy always in the locker room.
I remember this like it was yesterday. And the first
year he won with the Bulls, I'm the first guy
in the locker room, champagne, the whole thing, and then
he sees me in there. You know, Phil was always
knew what was going on in his locker room. Second
year I ended up. I'm in the locker room, first
guy in. He's given me the eye third time, and
(27:37):
he goes, this is going to become a habit.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
High Andy.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
I said, well, I hope so, coach, because I loved
the here, so you know, that was great. And then
of course spending twenty years with the Mamba was as
an experience was amazing. And I can't leave out the
Dream Team because the Dream Team. If I could have
retired after the Dream Team experience would have been a
good career.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
But it was just at the start. But obviously it's
not just obviously photography. You're around these guys. Obviously you
and Kobe were business partners and you were his personal guy.
But you were around Michael, and you're around Joe Montana
and all these guys in Phil and Kobe and Shaq.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
I mean, what was that experience? Like you were around
the greatest of the greatest across the board. Well, you know,
you guys are just guys. You know, you happen to
play a sport that I love, and you're tremendous athletes,
all of you guys. But when it comes down to it,
we all share common stuff. You know, we're all just
(28:32):
trying to make it in our profession. You know, I
was glad to be there to help document showtime and
help document the Shaq and Kobe era and Jordan era,
and I think there was some appreciation of that. I
guess that some of my photos tended to sort of
live on But I just loved the one on one conversation.
(28:54):
I mean, you and I had I don't know how
many conversations in locker room and after a game or
practice or on the bus or whatever, and that's that
was the most fun just hanging with the guys.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Really talk to us about when you first met Kobe
and how the relationship lasted a lifetime.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Well, he was, he was quite a phenomenon coming out
of high school. Although honestly, I don't know about you,
but like being on the West Coast, we didn't hear
that much about him. I mean, he's a kid out
of Philadelphi, suburban Philadelphia. The Lakers made this crazy trade
with beloved Vladi Devots going to Charlotte and then if
(29:35):
you remember, Vlati like threatened to retire, which would have
kabash the whole trade. But somehow Jerry West was able
to make some magic. And you know, hear this kid
comes out. He just turned eighteen years old, and he's
in front of me on media day, and you know
what media days like.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
It's like chaos.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
It's like giant circus sets all over the Laker gym
and you guys have to go from one set to
the next, you know, doing an interview, photo shoot and
marketing thing and whatever. And he came on my set
and for his first headshot in the Laker uniform, and
like any new player probably did this with you that
(30:12):
you know, if I don't know you. I walk in
and before I take the picture, go and introduce myself.
You know, it's a respectful thing. I say, hey, Kobe,
I'm Andy Bernsey. I'm your team photographer. And he literally
is shaking my hand, looking me in the eye with
those eyes.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
You know.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
He goes, well, I know who you are, man, you
know wow, And yeah, I'm thinking it's kind of a
smart ass thing to say.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
You think so?
Speaker 4 (30:34):
I mean, who says that to somebody? Because and I
said to him, I said, I don't know how that's
possible because we never met. And he goes and he
literally did in a beat, he said, well, I had
all your posters in my room growing up, and in
that instant that it is Likeames, but who reads photo credits.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
On a poster? For God's him? Him? Him?
Speaker 4 (30:54):
And I came to learn over the years, especially when
we did our book together, that he just didn't want
a nice poster of MJ or Doctor J or Isaiah
or Magic, all the guys that he wanted to be like.
He studied it like, you know, almost like a surgeon
was dissecting something, and in those beautiful photos, he was
(31:17):
breaking down everything. Muscle tone, what the guy's looking at
you know, where his hips are in relation to his hands,
all that stuff. And I know, from that moment on,
I just knew there was something about this kid that
you know, I was twenty years older than him at
the time.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
He's eighteen, I was thirty eight.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
And then he kind of reminded me a little bit
of me at eighteen. Yeah, kind of a smart ass
it but also wanting to prove himself. You know, he
was literally a boy among men, and he looked like
he was fourteen. I mean he really did, and you know,
skinny as anything, and that relationship just just built over time.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Same question I just asked, four, do you have five
favorites of Kobe oh Man? Great, you got all of them.
But well, there was some stuff during USA Basketball. It
wasn't there when he won the gold either time, but
just just seeing him around the guys was great. The
famous kind of moment of Shack carrying him on his
(32:21):
back in Indiana, I think it was Game two or
something regarding a couple of game winners I was there
for twenty ten. Was amazing in the locker room where
the guys are just showering him with champagne and he's
got his arms out and some great moments, some great
moments with his family. You know, we just passed the
(32:41):
anniversary and I was just looking back on some photos
of he and Gigi together, and you know, it breaks
all our heart, but I was just so glad to
be there to document it. That from Vanessa now.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
So you know, he was just he was He was
one of a kind.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Really, the Achilles game versus the Warriors. You were in
that building was what was the energy like when that happened.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
I had never been in a place that size that
you could hear a pin drop because everybody knew something happened.
It was such an innocuous thing. As you remember, he
made a move and boom went down like a ton
of bricks. I was on the other end, so I
actually had a good angle and had him actually towards you, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,
(33:25):
but he was like on the other other side of
the court. Yeah, And just like the sea parted and
I was able to get a picture of him going
right to his Achilles in the moment.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
And then Gary came out.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
As you remember, and and they go they go to
the bench, and of course, you know legendary mamba fashion.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
He goes down and shoots the free throw.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
But I honestly, Matt, I've never really talked about this,
but I was so broken up when that happened, because
here he is in the sixteenth season.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
You know, it's got to be the end.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
I mean, nobody in sixteen season comes back from something
like that. And he had already accomplished so much already,
and I didn't have the heart to go in the
locker room after the game, and you know, he held
that sort of impromptu press conference where he was tearing up.
And I don't regret that I wasn't there for that,
but I was there in the hall when he came
(34:17):
out with the crutches and the girls were waiting for
him and Vanessa, and it was a poignant moment. But
he he came out of that. You know, remember Gary
Vety had that door side, and he came out with
a smile on his face because his girls were out there,
you know, and he was positive. From that moment on,
he had his moment of of concern and worry, and
(34:41):
I'm sure he was scared, scared that that was the end.
But and then just I was there for his rehab.
I was actually there when he got the when doctor
Latrosh took the took the stitches out and was telling him, look,
you got to take it easy, you know, you grab
this boot right.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Definitely, definitely gotta tell him that. Some say that night
kind of gave birth to the Mamba mentality. I mean
it was always the Mamba, but like you said, to think,
you know, you're thinking it would be over. I think
a lot of people probably had similar sentiments to you, like,
this guy's accomplished everything, He's won all these championships. There's
no way he's coming back. And I think he's the
one person we both know that once he turns this
(35:22):
on to something like there's just get out of the way. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Yeah, I think Mama mentality was definitely there before that.
But for him to come back and be really stronger
than he was when he went down, I wouldn't say
he was as strong as he was, you know, at
the height of his career, but for him to not
let an injury define when he was going to leave
the game, and to come back as strong as he did,
(35:47):
you know, drop sixty in his last game, Mamba out,
I mean crazy, who could write that him? Yeah, we're
in Hollywood, nobody could have written that.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
It's amazing outside of sports some of your favorite I
mean outside of basketball, some of your favorite sporting moments
you've been able to kind of be a part of.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
Oh, yeah, I've been. I mean I mentioned the Kirk
Gibson game. Worked for the Dodgers during that World Series.
I think I shot three or four Super Bowls. That
was super fun. It was around some really good college basketball.
I used to cover the USC women's team when Cheryl
Million and when Lisa Leslie was there.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Love covering that.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
And back in the early days of my career, I
covered really anything that everything I get a credential for.
You know, if it was women's field hockey or water polo,
I didn't care because I needed to be building my portfolio.
You know, many of the international events that the NBA
has done. I was at the first McDonald's Championship.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Being in the NBA.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Bubble was quite the experience.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
The whole time.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
I was there fifty three days, Yeah, fifty three days.
I was there for the end. So when the very
end of the regular season, playoffs and then into the
interesting time.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Yeah, let's let's go through some of the photos you've
taken that. We kind of pulled to the These are
early ones of me. Ooh, those Clipper teams, now we're talking.
You were around those Clipper teams a lot. I was.
Those Lob City teams were very talented. We just couldn't
get over I mean, I think we couldn't get out
of our own way. Yeah. That was a fun team
and a fun time in La. It was kind of
(37:22):
a time where code was down a little bit, yep,
and those Lob City teams were exciting. This is I
think the last time we played against each other. Yeah,
I was Memphis. He was there. He had just gave
the twins a Jerseys. I don't know if you're in
there for that.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Yeah, got a picture twins, my picture, Yeah that is
your picture.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Yeah, but I'm saying I'm not sure if you got
the picture with him twins he gave them and they
were only like seven, eight years old. Maybe. Yeah, that
was that. We saw you everywhere. Yeah, know, you just
weren't at our games. I mean how often how many
days a week would you be at Staples on a
good week.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Well, I became the director of photography for AG, which
at that time was just Staples Center when when it opened,
actually before it opened in nineteen ninety eight, but ninety
nine when the building opened, then of course got the theater.
So my company still to this day in the twenty
fifth year of being the house photographers for the complex.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
So I was there a lot.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
My office was in the building. I mean, if you
know where the Laker banners are in the upper concourses,
a bunch of offices back there.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I was. That's where my office was.
Speaker 4 (38:22):
And so I was there for every every Laker home game,
every Clipper home game. And I've been to the LA Kings
team photographer for four decades.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
You saw the great one.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Yeah, so I was living there, which wasn't great, not
conducive to family life with you kids growing up at you.
And then when I'm not there, I was on the road.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Yeah, so that's a tough life. I mean you mentioned
at the end that that grind is what kind of
pushed me away from the game. I felt like I
was missing so much time, and I mean your schedule
was more hectic than mine because I just had to
go on mine. You have to go crubb the entire
you know, realm of the league. So yeah, now the
NBA was great. But they they push it, they work,
they work it, and you know for the Grammy trip
(39:03):
for example, when the building shuts down. I mean I'd
be on.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
The road, you know, two weeks in a road doing
nine ten games, and then they'd be like, oh, well
you have a day in between, go to Chicago and
do that game.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Did not take a breather, right your day off? Yeah, man,
that's my rookie year. That's that two thousand and two
or three. Wow. Old school Clippers, And that is definitely
old school because me and Baron, Baron just got here.
That's what we believe. Run right there.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
That was that was you know, I left that out
because and I should remember that was one of the
greatest runs that I really ever part of. Really Oh
to see you guys like kick Dallas's as at home
and that I was there for that game. Baron had
that dunk over Carolinko. Yeah, that's my picture, and uh,
the excitement in that building in Oracle. I mean they
(39:51):
talked about the Warriors, you know, the Steph Curry Warriors.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Which we got to take our hat off to.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
But what you guys did was different, man, little engine that.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Could different energy, some more iconic photos. Wow, Mjan and
his dad Kobe.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
And yeah, yeah, there was some moments.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
When you kind of look back. I mean like for me,
this would be like looking back at like old game
footage or something like how do you I mean, obviously
it's fresh, but like, what are you going to miss about?
I mean, you had one of the greatest jobs anyone
can ever ask for who was a sports fan. What
are you going to miss the most? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (40:22):
I really missed being around the guys. I missed the
routine of getting there, getting arena at a certain time.
I had a very strict routine. Great crew that I
worked with, you know, would set up everything for me,
you know, seeing all the fellas come in and Kibbittsen
in the in the training room with Gary Veanie and
(40:43):
then Gary all this, all the fans that I knew,
both teams courtside and of course the referees and all
this stuff, and then you know, getting to game time
and then locking in and being there to record truly
the greatest athletes on the face of the earth. I mean,
I know that Cliche and David Stern loved talking about that,
but it's really true. I mean, as a photographer, professional
(41:07):
basketball athletes are our gift.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Absolutely, and we were thankful to have someone like you
capturing those moments. Before you get out of here, tell
us a little bit about your podcast, Leedens of Sports.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Thank you. Well, listen, man, I'm just trying to grow
up to be like you. Well, you know my partners.
I have two really close friends who are partners, both
in the sports business in different areas. And you know,
we were seeing about ten years ago or so that
a lot of guys were struggling post retirement, and the
(41:41):
spotlight had moved off of those guys, and not only
did they not make the big money back and we're
talking like, you know, eighties and early nineties, but they
were struggling and they were forgotten about, and we wanted
to kind of shine the light back on, not just
to the stars, but the guys who might have been
part of you know, if you think about the showtime Lakers,
(42:03):
seven eight guys come to mind, but there were like
forty guys who won rings in the eighties that people
might not remember. So we saw sort of a little
bit of a void in the sports content landscape. And
I didn't realize that I really loved doing what you do,
was sitting there talking about stuff, I mean, learning about
(42:24):
people where they started. I actually started a show on
Time Warner, which was you know, previous the Spectrum on
a Laker channel called Through the Lens, where I would
just sit and talk to a Laker personality Genie Buzz,
Gary Ved, James Worthy, whoever about their career through my photos.
(42:46):
And I never thought I could be on the other
side of the camera. I I never envisioned it, but
I took to it.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
I loved it.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
And Norm Pattis, the great late Norm Pattis who owned
podcasts one who you remember sat courtside.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Right in the middle.
Speaker 4 (43:02):
The guy always had their program. A crazy Laker fan
became a great friend and he became a mentor, and
he was helping me sort of call this idea of
legends of sport. And he calls me over before he
gave He goes, Andy, and I saw the show you
did on the Laker Network and I love it. It's great.
It's great you're talking to people. And I said, thank you,
(43:23):
Norman Goes. I got to get that on my podcast network.
And this is like ten years ago, and you know,
I'm still working this photograph and I said. I looked,
literally looked at him. I said, Norm, thank you for that,
But I don't know what a podcast is, you know, i'd.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Heard the term.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
He goes, It's like radio, but just longer interviews. And
I said, well, Norm, with all due respect, you know,
I appreciate you wanting me to, you know, take this
to your podcast network. But it's a visual show, like
we're showing pictures. Can you curse on the show?
Speaker 1 (43:53):
You can? Right, so, he says.
Speaker 4 (43:55):
So he says to me, he says, Andy, nobody gives
a shit about the pictures. They want to hear the story.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
He says.
Speaker 7 (44:01):
They want to see the pictures. That go to your website,
they go to your instagram. I said, Norm, let's do it.
And the next day literally went down to his office
in Beverly Hills. We hammered out something and here I
am doing a podcast and we're in. We're in, you know,
deep into season seven, two hundred and sixty or so interviews,
and I love it.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Yeah, I love it too. I love it, Yeah, I
love it. For you. Before we get you out of you,
I'm gonna put you on the spot one last time.
Your favorite event that you've covered, favorite event only pick
one across all the sports, all the greatness you saw,
I'm gonna put you on the spots. Oh, that is
a tough one. Actually, give me two.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
Well, I really I'd have to say when the Dream
Team won the gold medal in Barcelona ninety two, that
was really amazing because I had been with them all
seven weeks, documenting every step of the way, lived with
those guys, and we all knew they were going to win,
but the moment was, you know, when the flag goes
up and they got the medals on it.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
So that was so.
Speaker 4 (45:01):
Great to capture that. And then you know, MJ's first
championship was unbelievable, but I got it. Really pointed twenty
ten for Kobe's fifth ring, which he was.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
The deam season because they lost to Boston the year Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (45:16):
And he you know, and it was devastating when they
lost in two thousand and eight, and he said at
the time, he said, I'm not retiring until I beat
the Celtics in the finals. And so they got there
and that was such a monumental series.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
The game seven at home, he didn't have a great game,
as you had that shot, right, Yeah, but.
Speaker 4 (45:34):
In his greatness, he was able to defer and you know,
meta hits that shot of out of nowhere. So it
was such a great moment to be there and my
wife was there, my late mother in law was there,
and you know, have family there and be part of
that was really amazing.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Well, Andy Man, it's always been a pleasure working with you,
speaking with You've always just been one of the one
of the real good guys around the game man, And
we appreciate your forty three years of greatness, joy enjoyed
retirement life.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
Thank you, new for you, and thank you for all
the moments.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
That you gave me on that. I appreciate that. I
hope you enjoyed this episode of Unplugged. You can catch
this on all the Smoke Productions YouTube and the Draft
Kings Network. See y'all next week. G
Welcome back to Unplugged. We're in the midst of our
la all the smoke run Jack. We got a chance
to sit down with Vernon mad Maxwell at all start,
and that ship is going crazy right now.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Man, tell the truth, y'all got a nigga out here
for working. Y'all just wanted to make me work more
while we're seeing there.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
That's what it is. You don't even come in on
the mad Match.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Yeah, I'm gonna do that, but I just want to
say that first I knew I was in here. Let's
get this nigga on right now to shoot Unplugged.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Why he here?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So we got a text him thirty times Sunday right Bill,
Mindelia that you do be taking my.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Bad Another stat though, is he broke Kendrick Perkins motherfucker's
on that episode, which I never thought could happen. Is
there any truth to her keen slapping the shit out
of you at halftime? One time said there's a lot
of truth to it, A lot of truth.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Yes, that motherfucker Likerapers has on the ground, And oh
my goodness, hit me so goddamn heart wisdom, Seattle, every
damn things having Seattle, God damn. But wisdom shadow was
(01:10):
I was mine. I was having a bad first half,
and ship we was playing Gary in them and Sean
Kemp and all the motherfuckers. They had a squad over
that motherfucker. Uh double deuces, Ricky Pierce, they had all
they had a squad or whatever. Dannum barrows they have
a squad. They just had a bunch of motherfuckers can
Bay so Derrick m Kid. Then now I'm having a
(01:33):
bad first half. I'm like, damn, you know how long
that fucking walk is Seattle Locking. Yeah, It's like motherfucker
walking fucking this ship around the blobber, round this damn
building to come back in here. I mean they're walking
so long.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Yeah, So I'm mind.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
When I'm getting mad, I should spend.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I'm walking.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
I'm spitting in the niggas, Uh Sam sitting up and
Robbert beside me. Man, it's gonna be alright, MAT's go on,
Man gonna be okay. Man, Fuck that ship, man, these
niggas ain't giving me the ball.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
This nigga won't pass the ball. Man, Fuck this ship.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
So dream behind me and dream like Maxie, what the
fuck is you doing? That Ship's not professional? Don't do
that ship. Stop that ship.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I was like, dream man, fuck that ship. I'm tired
of you too.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
Why would I say that ship?
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Now, I shouldn't have said that, because he came in
and put this goddamn hands up, bigger hands on me
in the locker room. Oh man, he.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Slapped the ship out. Then I saw.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Coming from the back wall man, way from the back.
They slapped ship out of me so hard. I mean,
I thought, I'm motherfucker punched me. He slapped out of
men hand.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Ship man, slap ship out of me. Man. Then they
killed me. But but but but hey, but knowing you,
you had to do what you do well.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
You try to get you, try to get yourself together.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I'm glad you're.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Well. I got you know, I went crazy and that
motherfucker everybody was running and scrambling that. There's a lot
of motherfucker scrambling and that motherfucker when I got there
doing I was doing. I was crazy.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
It's only one thing after nigga, like, that's left you got.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I'm gonna get that too.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Always on the road, we wave mother fucking way all
the way across the country. We all got there.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
We way over there in Seattle. Damn Houston. I know
what ship.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Next is a Star bro, He's a star. I knew
it was gonna be a funny episode. I haven't watched
the episode probably two or three times. I haven't watched
no other episode we've done two or three times. I
promise you haven't. I probably watched Kobe once twice, but
this episode is my most watched.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Newest member to the All the Smoke Family, Max, Welcome
burn Out. Oh my god, we have him back soon, Yes, sir,
Hot Out of Phoenix. Budenholzer recently had Devin Booker come
to his office and told his book he needs to
tone it down. Butenholzer, Booty Holzer, he wants his voice.
He wants his voice to be more prominent. Bootenholzer wants that,
(04:18):
which is crazy. I've never heard of coach tell a
star player that he needs to tone it down. And
I heard the book talk after that and saying that
a lack of communication feels like it's one of the
reasons why this team has struggled. And he's tired of
here and let's get him next game. At some point,
you got to drive hi motherfucking line and we got
to win. Now, Stack, you had Butenholzer in San Antonio,
very impressive regular season record throughout his career, but hasn't
(04:40):
been able to get it done in the playoffs. I'm
not sure if his style translates anymore. But also at
the same time, Devin Bookers had seven head coaches in
his ten years. That's Phoenix a laundry list? Is this ownership?
Is it? Butenholzer has the game passed him? What do
you see out of Phoenix since the ship show over there?
(05:02):
First and foremost I mean you.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Said, is it just looked like he hasn't been able
to build a real relationship with nobody. You know, him
and Budd don't have a type of relationship They've had
that time to to have the respect. You know, Tim
Duncan and Great Poppers was together for a while. So
when Pop cut him off or you know, made made
Tim be the reason why he can get on other guys,
you know, Tim embraced it because they had a relationship.
(05:23):
You know what I'm saying with the respect was mutual,
I don't think the respect is mutual because they haven't
been around each other long enough. Then again, Bro Bud
was an offensive coach when I was there. He wasn't
the coach for communicating. That was Mike Brown. Mike Brown
communicate with guys, and he was at the bud was
strictly for offense. He didn't come in the locker room
to talk and get guys ready to play. Or he
(05:44):
wasn't the guy to come in get your shot. You
know what I'm saying. He wasn't that guy, but he would.
He's still a great coach because he grew, he came
up under Pop, and he had had some success in
the league. But to say this for Devns, I mean
for books point of it's impossible for him to even
sit there or even want to grow with this team
(06:05):
when you don't have a coach that you can build with,
because that's where you really get your confidence. When I
talk about Don Nelson all the time, like I bounced
around too and played with different coaches. But that's why
he's my favorite, because when I got down was they
were spending some time with him, and he also gave
me that confidence. And having a coach like that was
just coming in and you ain't been building no rapport with.
Speaker 5 (06:21):
Him, It's not gonna work, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
And that's and you know what, Matt, that's the reason
why it's other turmoil going on in the organization, You
know what I'm saying, because it's not good on that bench,
and I can see, I can see all those guys
trying to get up out of them.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
You know, obviously It'sha's idea to bring in Bradley Beal
on a note trade deal. I think that clogged up
the whole entire trade deadline for this Phoenix team. But
not that Bradley Beil is a bad player, because I
definitely know he's not. But it was just from the
outside looking in, we knew you're bringing him three straight scorers,
that that wasn't gonna work, and they wanted to move
him at the debt deadline and possibly get Jimmy Butler.
(06:55):
That didn't work, and then you throw Kd's name in there,
and now you got KD a little because he never knew.
You know why am I being thrown in this ship
when I didn't ask or no one talked to me
about it. Katie's got one year left. I'm not sure
how much time Booker has left. But do you see
they're these guys getting out of Phoenix at the end
of the year.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I hope so I would like to see him like
that because I want to see these guys win. You know,
Book is a great player, Katie's a great player. I
don't think it's gonna happen there. You know, once that
started happing with the side, the riffs start happened on
the sideline with the coach. Then next thing you know,
he's gonna be players talking about the coach. The next
you know, the players gonna be going to the office
talking about So it's too much friction. Everybody got to
be on the same page to win, and they not
(07:33):
know what's loosed up.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I mean, what are we two, three, maybe four years
move from James Jones making a bunch of great moves
and getting Phoenix on the map and all of a sudden,
now one bad move can fuck it all of them
bucket all up. I mean, chemistry matters. Is this an
issue with new owners coming into the game and kind
of being fans and not really looking at the business
of basketball. We see it with HBO, We've seen him
(07:55):
with the new ownership with Dallas. It's interesting because again
that that at the top is where everything starts, and
if they're not basketball savvy, and understanding the game, and
they're fans of the game, and sometimes that ship just
doesn't work. But if if, if, I love to see
Booker get out. But if KD leaves Jack was he
(08:15):
thirty six? How was Kitty thirty six years old? He'll
be up for an extension after next season. He's probably
going to get a lot of money for that extension,
maybe a three year extension. Where do you do you
see any any suitable landing spots for KD? Yeah, I
would love to see KD in Dallas with Kyrie and Ad.
They can happen, if they possibly could make that happen.
I also would like to see book or somewhere Where's
Booker from Bookers from the Midwest? Right Detroit? Hey, I
(08:40):
would love to see him go back. I would love
to go back home.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
And with the way they going, they start building, you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I think that'll be a great piece to keep that
organization going in the right direction.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
Wow, he's home. That'd be I'll be grateful.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Book That'd be crazy. I didn't think about that today.
A and D book not even shout out to Detroit.
We shall see, Yeah, I mean, you know, since we're
talking about that. Did Detroit this give the Detroit pissing
some love man thirty one wins in the last two
seasons prior to this year. I think they're currently sitting
at what thirty two to thirty three wins if I'm
not mistaken, sixth in the West eight straight wins. Kate
(09:17):
Cuttingham as an odds in for most improved Player. What
have you seen from this team? Jack? I mean top
ten in scoring, top five and assists. Beasley has been
a big addition to this team, averaging sixteen points youot
over forty two percent from the three point line. One
of the Thompson twins is they're making his presence felt.
Thoughts on Detroit and JB. Shout out to JB because
(09:39):
I thought of unjust firing from Cleveland right he was
having to see solid over in Cleveland, gets fired and
heads on over to Detroit and completely has changed his
team around. You have a bunch of guys on that team.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
You could tell they all playing for so contract and
that's just what is you know, and you know contracts
where the guys are playing for respect. You know what,
Guys that don't want to be on the sorry team,
don't want to go through what they went through last year,
Like you could tell whatever it is that everybody on
this team is playing for something. Even the coach, he's
coaching for something, you know what I'm saying, for where
they did him last year. So I think I love
and I would love to be a part of stuff
(10:09):
like that, you know what I'm saying, because we have
a reason. The pride is that a passion is there
and that's why they having success. Along with k Cunningham
showing that he belongs to be talked about in the
top player the top players in the league.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
Also, so we're talking about Detroit A sorry, one of
the twins been bothering man.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
He's been playing.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I think defensively, him and his brother are the probably
two best defensive players in the league.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
And the effort that they give. What do you think
about both of them? I love the I mean, those
kids are Northern California kids. I think they're from Odeo.
I'm not mistaken. They took the overtime Elite angle and obviously,
you know, being twins and me having twins on my own,
and it's just fun to see them do what they're doing.
Two of the most athletic explosive guys, dogs play with
high energy and again big part of the rotation in
(10:49):
Detroit and obviously another big part of the rotation in Houston.
So he crossed them and he turned he turned Tatum around. Yeah,
this is interesting. I remember seeing this a while ago,
that the Thompson's twins mom made them commit to this. Uh,
you know, just kind of accountability as far as push up,
(11:11):
sit ups, caf raises, reading, just being productive young teenagers
at the time, and they stuck with that. And now
we see these guys and I think their second year,
right second year, really starting to come out of their
shell and being major players in this game now. So
I'm happy for JB. I'm happy for Kid, I'm happy
for Detroit. Detroit has been struggling for a while, and
(11:35):
you know the fact that they've done this the right
way through drafts and and free agency and got a
coach that they really like and the players have bought into.
If they can land to Devin Booker, look.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Out, will we see history one day? Well the twins
are both first team All Defense. That'll be crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, there's I mean, this is interesting again, these guys
played you know, ote and you along I think Rob
Dilly and who the other guy saw took the OTV rut.
And we look at college basketball and all these crazy
stupid ass rules with juco players that could play two
years and then still coming and be freshmen, and now
they're giving people five years. And this Alabama team is
(12:14):
number one in the country but they have a twenty
six year old and a twenty five year old. Like
this shit is crazy. But I say all that to
say is there's just so many different lanes to the
NBA now, whether you want to do what you know
Brandon Jennings did and Mellow did and go over the
water for your one year and then come back and
do your thing if you want to actually go to college,
but you know, the way colleges college is a mess
(12:36):
right now. And then obviously OTE shout out to Ote
and what they've been able to create over there and
the kids they be of operating tunities too. But it's
really interesting, Jackie, as someone who came straight to the league,
do you see the league in the next few years
kind of moving that rule and allowing kids to make
that jump again? I hope.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
So, I mean, you know, college is very beneficial for
a lot of kids now, but you know of people
still don't want to go to school, you know what
I mean. And that's just what it boils down to.
If I can make the money and not go to school.
Because then again, you got so many young black millionaires
now that's that's making money. And if they didn't get
their skills all they talent from education, you know, they
(13:15):
sitting at home, sitting in front of computers making blogs
and stuff like that. So definitely you should be able
to go to you know, my all my thing is
if you can go to war the A team, you
should be able to play basketball in the sport to
take care of your family.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
That Recently, Lebron James was asked about Anthony Edwards' comments
about being the face of the league and who is
and who isn't? Who would want to be Take a
look at this clip and ain't trying to deal with that?
Speaker 6 (13:41):
And uh, I mean Channy Fry said it the other
day too, Like.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
I mean, it's unfortunate, but like.
Speaker 6 (13:51):
I don't know, when you why do you want to
be the face of a league when all the all
the all the people that you know that cover our
game and talk about our game on the day to
day basic everybody we had that responsibility. That's it's just weird.
It's weird energy from the people that.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
You know.
Speaker 6 (14:10):
I don't know, but changing he said it, he said
it perfectly. Couldn't set it no better. But Ant said
he don't want it.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
I didn't.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
I mean, obviously I didn't ask for it, but I
knew there was a responsibility for me not only to
my family, my friends, my community, and and and whoever
that was gonna follow my my my journey throughout my career,
not only in Ohio when I started there, but all
all over America and all over the world when I
(14:36):
traveled all over the world. So I've always taken that
seriously and understand and understood from the beginning what what
being a professional.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Was all about and being a role model was all about.
Speaker 6 (14:47):
So tried to hold that with the utmost uh respect
and honor. And but I feel Ant, I understand, I
completely understand.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
This is weird and when it comes to that, so
last question, appreciate it, Jack thoughts.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
I kind of look at that both ways. There's a
lot of people that are covering basketball. I talk about
the game that never played. So I agree with him.
They say some wild shit. But then again, to whom
much is given, much is required, you know what I mean.
I know a lot of people that would die to
be called the face of the NBA and be able
to deal with the slander, whether it's good or bad
(15:27):
and not and then just let it, you know, dust
it off their shoulder and keep it going.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
So I look at it both ways.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yeah, you got a lot of people talk about a
lot of stuff that have never been in the NBA
locker room, that couldn't make a church league team a
church league team. I get it, but they and they
say some crazy things. But at the same time, like
I said, to whom much is given, much is required.
I would rather deal with that, you know what I mean,
and be the face of the league than not have
that opportunity.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
To be there. I mean, I think it's just such
a huge badge of honor to be the face of anything,
particularly the face of the NBA. And I think we
live in the day and age now where the negativity
is always going to be louder than the love. And
I think that's the aspect of social media and clickbait
media come with. It's just a lot of jealousy and
a lot of hate. You take Jason Tatum, take Jason
(16:10):
Tatum's resume. Why is he not the face so so?
Colin Cowherd just say he's paraphrase, he's just kind of boring.
But look at his accolades, Look what he does on
the court, Look what he's accomplished, you know, and not
wanting it. But you know, you never know if he's
serious or joking around. But it's just a different it's
a different time now, it's a different time. I think
(16:30):
guys like Lebron and KD who came in in a
different era are kind of hurt from a standpoint of
the way the game's being talked about. But they also
have to realize, Jack, I'll say this, sometimes when you're
in a fuck the relationship, you don't know it's fucked
up until you're out of it. Right, the product of
the NBA is just not very good right now. Playoffs
heats up, but the regular season for the last few
(16:52):
years hasn't been good. And I'm sure it's hard for
guys like Lebron and KD and stuff who are at
the end of incredible runs. Three the greatest players will
ever see, possibly all three Top ten guys the game's
ever seen, but towards the back end of their career.
Now towards the end of their career, like the product,
this newer age is coming in with a different vibe
and like KG says, a newer lens and it's just
(17:13):
not the same thing. But sometimes I think if Katie
and Lebron were able to take a step out of
the situation and take themselves away from the current game
they're in and they love and kind of look at
what it is on a day to day basis, they
would understand what the outside people are looking at. I
don't ever recall when we were playing that people were
saying this is a bad product. I don't recall that.
I mean to late nineties, early two thousands, the game
(17:36):
was the game and it was incredible. So again I
get where he's coming back, you know, And like you said,
a lot, a lot is given, a lot is going
to be required, and the hate will always be louder
than the love. But I just think it's such a
huge honor to be the face of the league, and
to me, I think Jason Tatum should be at the
top of that list. There's a lot of international players
(17:56):
that are on that list, and obviously Anthony Edwards getting
his mind right. As great as he is, you see
young shit coming out of him every once in a while,
like when he was disappointed or mad about being double team.
I mean, that's an honor, bro, you know what I mean? Like,
how do you get better from being double team? So
I think is at the top of that list for
American players. I think Job would be listed as one
(18:16):
of those guys if he wasn't in so much off
the court dumb shit. We have a lot of American talent,
but these guys have to embrace this because you would
never hear someone like a Mike or Kobe or whoever
was next in line, even the Lebron because he wasn't
talking about it when he was handed you the crown
of being the face of the league. It's just a
different energy now, and you know, hopefully these young guys
start to embracing and say fuck everything else because it
(18:37):
doesn't really matter. Right. Transitioning into some postseason awards, do
some picks want to put some push ups on the line.
Let's see, Jack, Let's see what is going on. Let's
see and I'll give you first pick for everything. Regular
season MVP. Who do you got, Come on, man, fly guy.
SGA is the heavy favorite and mind five hundred, with
(19:01):
Nikola Jokic next at three point fifty, and then after
that it's a it's a landslide, so it looks like
it's gonna be a two man race. SGA is incredible,
nothing you can say. It's got his team at the
top of the Western Conference by the average thirty for
thirty years straight. But then on the flip side with
Jokic has been able to do team a little lord,
what is his team third or fourth? Third in the
Western Conference? But his numbers have been better than his
(19:22):
previous MVP nods, So I think this is is a
two man race. You're gonna go with SGA. Cl guy,
I'm gonna go with SGA two. So no loser there.
Most improved saw the list Here at the top is
Kate Cuttingham minus two forty. Next up my UCLA brother
(19:43):
Norman pal Out here with the LA Clippers at plus
two twenty, and then there's a huge fall off, so
again this is a two man race. Again, Jack, who
you got? You know, I don't eat what I do
like k cunning down. I like Kate a lot too,
and he's probably gonna get it. But just to throw
in a dark horse and we can't agree with everything same,
I'm gonna go with Norman pal I'm gonna go with
my Brewin brother next up defensive player of the year
(20:06):
with Wimby being knocked out, and move someone else other
players up to the top. Evan Mobley, who's on Cleveland,
who has what they have a top five defense, top five,
top six defense, he's a plus one fifteen. Then Jaron
Jackson at one forty five, and then there's a steep
fall off after that. I don't see Rudy Rudy Gobert, Yeah,
(20:27):
plus ten thousand, right pass on him this year? Jack
who you got just the.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Way Cleves has been playing, and you know, I satid
they've been all year.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
You got it.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Defense wings perhaps definitely wins games, and you got to
give it to the guy in the middle over there
has been holding the down.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Gonna go with Evan Mobley. I'm not mad at that.
I'm gonna go with the dark horse here, and I
feel like a guy that, if I'm not mistaken, has
never made an All NBA defensive team but plays on
the number one team in the Western Conference, someone who
can guard one through four, a body full of muscle.
Lou Dort, Yeah, I coached him in the Iverson game. Yeah,
loud solid. He's really come a long way with this
(21:04):
game as his efficiency shooting, but just his lockdown in
cinternation defense. If he's not Defensive Player of the Year,
which he probably won't be, I hope that he is
a first team All NBA Defender six Man of the Year, Jack,
I'm gonna go first this time at minus one sixty.
I'm gonna go with my little leprechaun homie out there
in Boston, Peyton Pritcher as the next NBA six Man year.
(21:29):
Also other guys Malik Beasley's on that, DeAndre Hunter, nas
Reed a Men, Thompson, Russell Westbrook. Those are the top
six betting favorites. Who you going with? Man?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
You know they've just been trying to give Peyton Pitcher
something for the last three four years, trying to get it.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I'm just saying, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Everything, the champions had two shots from half court. Now
he the half court king, Like this is crazy. I'm
going with a million. Timson bro I'm going.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
On the Twins. Yeah, I'm You're definitely, but half court
Kings don't listen to that hate over here. I can't.
Let's go where are we last, but not least Coach
of the Year coach Kenny Atkinson. Man shout out to
what he's been able to do over there in Cleveland
after leaving the Warriors bench. I think he turned down
a couple jobs leading up to this because he knew
they were bullshit as teams and he probably would have
(22:22):
been fired quickly. Made the right move. But he's the
betting favorite of minus five hundred JB. Bickerstaff plus four
twenty five, and then after that it's a landslide. So
I think it's a two man race here, Jack, who
you got? I'm going to email man. I like what
he's doing in Houston.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Man, I just I just you know, I'm from Texas board,
but he may you know, has been through a lot
and to bounce back to what he's doing with these
young guys, got these guys playing the way he's supposed to.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I like it. I think he's one of the best
coaches in the NBA. Agreed. I think the way he
thinks and I think just the way he approached the
game when he played had given him a huge upper
hand on this coaching run. And what he's been able
to do with a very young team in Houston and
keep all those guys together. I feel like they're a
piece away from really being a threat in the West.
But I'm not mad at this. I'm gonna go with JB.
(23:08):
Bickerstaff Man being fired for Cleveland for pretty much no
reason and then be able to go over to Detroit
and completely flip this organization around. They won thirty one
games prior to this year and two years combined, and
they're at, you know, thirty two thirty three wins this
year with twenty five games to go. And again, Detroit
deserves this, so I'm excited for the city of Detroit.
(23:28):
So I'm gonna go with JB. Bicker staff I got
a chance to sit down with one of the most
legendary photographers in the game. Has caught your favorite players
for the last thirty or forty years. Take a look
at my sit down interview with Andy Bernstein. I'd like
to welcome to the show man one of my favorite photographers,
a guy that's been in the business for forty plus
(23:49):
years and just retired. I couldn't believe I heard the news. Well,
welcome to the show, legendary Andrew Bernstein.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Thank you, Matt. Appreciate to see men too. You've officially
retired after three years. Yeah, it took a little while,
I mean four decades.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Well we see MJ return it at interview. Are you
done done? No? No.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
I went to see my back specialty specialist and he said,
you know, I think you got to walk off the.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Court while you still can walk off the court. Now.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
My back was a mess, and I've been struggling the
last few years with the traveling and just the schlepping
around a lot. And you know, I still love doing it.
And I left when I felt it was time to go.
But the NBA was great about sort of weaning me
off the court less road games. I was doing like
every third game at home. So it was a good
time to.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Go forty three years and around all sports, not just NBA.
We were talking before we got on air about you know,
my team is the Niners, and you're talking about I
go back with Montana and Rice and Steve Young at
the old Candlestick Parks. I mean, what got you in
to photography, but particularly sports photography.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Well, I was a kid I was fourteen, my dad
bought me my first camera, and I wasn't interested at
all in photography, but we took a trip to the
Western United States up in Brooklyn, so the furthest west
avergot was New Jersey. So what I got to see,
you know, the Grand Canyon and Yosemite and all the
great national parks. And he taught me all the basics
(25:11):
for a photography, but you know, it was film cameras
and all manual stuff and all that business, and I
had to just learn on the fly, and I just
took to it. It was kind of like maybe the
first time you went out on the court when you
were a kid and you just fell in love with
the game and bouncing the ball.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
And that's how I felt.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
And I took it, you know, I took it seriously
in high school, and I went to college for it
at UMass in the shadow of doctor J I came
in after him and then transferred out here in my
junior year to a place called Arts Center and became
an assistant for Sports Illustrated. And that's really where I
got my on the job training, going NBA games and
(25:50):
learning how to light arenas like poly Pavilion and near
and dear to your heart, and the Forum and of
course the old sports arena for how hockey and basketball primarily. Now,
I was just in the right place at the right time.
I you know, was there at the beginning of showtime
and the NBA was starting to ramp up their need
for photography and uh, you know, Brooklyn guy, I have
(26:13):
a little bit of moxie in me and was able
to kind of push the door open a little bit,
kind of create some opportunity for myself.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
I mean, looking back, and again, you'd literally just retired
in May, but can you give me possibly your top
three to five moments you feel like you've personally covered. Ooh,
that's a good one.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Well, I mean, MBA wise, I could give you a
million of them, a little probably fifty of them.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
But you know, I was there for Kirk Gibson's home run.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
I was working for the Dodgers back then, and that
was monument eighty eight game won the World Series. It
felt like I felt like, literally that the stadium was
going to crack in half. It was so unbelievable. And
then you know, Jordan's first championship, which at the time
was pretty monumental because it took them seven years to
(26:59):
get there, but none of us knew, of course, that
he had by more coming. All the time I spent
with Showtime with you know, Riley and Magic and all
those guys, it was just amazing. And of course it
was with Phil Phil Jackson for all eleven of his championships.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
So I was the first guy always in the locker room.
I remember this like it was yesterday. And the first
year he won with the Bulls, I'm the first guy
in the locker room, champagne, the whole thing, and then
he sees me in there. You know, Phil was always
knew what was going on in his locker room. Second
year I ended up. I'm in the locker room, first
guy in. He's given me the eye third time, and
(27:37):
he goes, this is going to become a habit.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
High Andy.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
I said, well, I hope so, coach, because I loved
the here, so you know, that was great. And then
of course spending twenty years with the Mamba was as
an experience was amazing. And I can't leave out the
Dream Team because the Dream Team. If I could have
retired after the Dream Team experience would have been a
good career.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
But it was just at the start. But obviously it's
not just obviously photography. You're around these guys. Obviously you
and Kobe were business partners and you were his personal guy.
But you were around Michael, and you're around Joe Montana
and all these guys in Phil and Kobe and Shaq.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
I mean, what was that experience? Like you were around
the greatest of the greatest across the board. Well, you know,
you guys are just guys. You know, you happen to
play a sport that I love, and you're tremendous athletes,
all of you guys. But when it comes down to it,
we all share common stuff. You know, we're all just
(28:32):
trying to make it in our profession. You know, I
was glad to be there to help document showtime and
help document the Shaq and Kobe era and Jordan era,
and I think there was some appreciation of that. I
guess that some of my photos tended to sort of
live on But I just loved the one on one conversation.
(28:54):
I mean, you and I had I don't know how
many conversations in locker room and after a game or
practice or on the bus or whatever, and that's that
was the most fun just hanging with the guys.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Really talk to us about when you first met Kobe
and how the relationship lasted a lifetime.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Well, he was, he was quite a phenomenon coming out
of high school. Although honestly, I don't know about you,
but like being on the West Coast, we didn't hear
that much about him. I mean, he's a kid out
of Philadelphi, suburban Philadelphia. The Lakers made this crazy trade
with beloved Vladi Devots going to Charlotte and then if
(29:35):
you remember, Vlati like threatened to retire, which would have
kabash the whole trade. But somehow Jerry West was able
to make some magic. And you know, hear this kid
comes out. He just turned eighteen years old, and he's
in front of me on media day, and you know
what media days like.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
It's like chaos.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
It's like giant circus sets all over the Laker gym
and you guys have to go from one set to
the next, you know, doing an interview, photo shoot and
marketing thing and whatever. And he came on my set
and for his first headshot in the Laker uniform, and
like any new player probably did this with you that
(30:12):
you know, if I don't know you. I walk in
and before I take the picture, go and introduce myself.
You know, it's a respectful thing. I say, hey, Kobe,
I'm Andy Bernsey. I'm your team photographer. And he literally
is shaking my hand, looking me in the eye with
those eyes.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
You know.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
He goes, well, I know who you are, man, you
know wow, And yeah, I'm thinking it's kind of a
smart ass thing to say.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
You think so?
Speaker 4 (30:34):
I mean, who says that to somebody? Because and I
said to him, I said, I don't know how that's
possible because we never met. And he goes and he
literally did in a beat, he said, well, I had
all your posters in my room growing up, and in
that instant that it is Likeames, but who reads photo credits.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
On a poster? For God's him? Him? Him?
Speaker 4 (30:54):
And I came to learn over the years, especially when
we did our book together, that he just didn't want
a nice poster of MJ or Doctor J or Isaiah
or Magic, all the guys that he wanted to be like.
He studied it like, you know, almost like a surgeon
was dissecting something, and in those beautiful photos, he was
(31:17):
breaking down everything. Muscle tone, what the guy's looking at
you know, where his hips are in relation to his hands,
all that stuff. And I know, from that moment on,
I just knew there was something about this kid that
you know, I was twenty years older than him at
the time.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
He's eighteen, I was thirty eight.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
And then he kind of reminded me a little bit
of me at eighteen. Yeah, kind of a smart ass
it but also wanting to prove himself. You know, he
was literally a boy among men, and he looked like
he was fourteen. I mean he really did, and you know,
skinny as anything, and that relationship just just built over time.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Same question I just asked, four, do you have five
favorites of Kobe oh Man? Great, you got all of them.
But well, there was some stuff during USA Basketball. It
wasn't there when he won the gold either time, but
just just seeing him around the guys was great. The
famous kind of moment of Shack carrying him on his
(32:21):
back in Indiana, I think it was Game two or
something regarding a couple of game winners I was there
for twenty ten. Was amazing in the locker room where
the guys are just showering him with champagne and he's
got his arms out and some great moments, some great
moments with his family. You know, we just passed the
(32:41):
anniversary and I was just looking back on some photos
of he and Gigi together, and you know, it breaks
all our heart, but I was just so glad to
be there to document it. That from Vanessa now.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
So you know, he was just he was He was
one of a kind.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Really, the Achilles game versus the Warriors. You were in
that building was what was the energy like when that happened.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
I had never been in a place that size that
you could hear a pin drop because everybody knew something happened.
It was such an innocuous thing. As you remember, he
made a move and boom went down like a ton
of bricks. I was on the other end, so I
actually had a good angle and had him actually towards you, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,
(33:25):
but he was like on the other other side of
the court. Yeah, And just like the sea parted and
I was able to get a picture of him going
right to his Achilles in the moment.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
And then Gary came out.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
As you remember, and and they go they go to
the bench, and of course, you know legendary mamba fashion.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
He goes down and shoots the free throw.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
But I honestly, Matt, I've never really talked about this,
but I was so broken up when that happened, because
here he is in the sixteenth season.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
You know, it's got to be the end.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
I mean, nobody in sixteen season comes back from something
like that. And he had already accomplished so much already,
and I didn't have the heart to go in the
locker room after the game, and you know, he held
that sort of impromptu press conference where he was tearing up.
And I don't regret that I wasn't there for that,
but I was there in the hall when he came
(34:17):
out with the crutches and the girls were waiting for
him and Vanessa, and it was a poignant moment. But
he he came out of that. You know, remember Gary
Vety had that door side, and he came out with
a smile on his face because his girls were out there,
you know, and he was positive. From that moment on,
he had his moment of of concern and worry, and
(34:41):
I'm sure he was scared, scared that that was the end.
But and then just I was there for his rehab.
I was actually there when he got the when doctor
Latrosh took the took the stitches out and was telling him, look,
you got to take it easy, you know, you grab
this boot right.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Definitely, definitely gotta tell him that. Some say that night
kind of gave birth to the Mamba mentality. I mean
it was always the Mamba, but like you said, to think,
you know, you're thinking it would be over. I think
a lot of people probably had similar sentiments to you, like,
this guy's accomplished everything, He's won all these championships. There's
no way he's coming back. And I think he's the
one person we both know that once he turns this
(35:22):
on to something like there's just get out of the way. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Yeah, I think Mama mentality was definitely there before that.
But for him to come back and be really stronger
than he was when he went down, I wouldn't say
he was as strong as he was, you know, at
the height of his career, but for him to not
let an injury define when he was going to leave
the game, and to come back as strong as he did,
(35:47):
you know, drop sixty in his last game, Mamba out,
I mean crazy, who could write that him? Yeah, we're
in Hollywood, nobody could have written that.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
It's amazing outside of sports some of your favorite I
mean outside of basketball, some of your favorite sporting moments
you've been able to kind of be a part of.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
Oh, yeah, I've been. I mean I mentioned the Kirk
Gibson game. Worked for the Dodgers during that World Series.
I think I shot three or four Super Bowls. That
was super fun. It was around some really good college basketball.
I used to cover the USC women's team when Cheryl
Million and when Lisa Leslie was there.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Love covering that.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
And back in the early days of my career, I
covered really anything that everything I get a credential for.
You know, if it was women's field hockey or water polo,
I didn't care because I needed to be building my portfolio.
You know, many of the international events that the NBA
has done. I was at the first McDonald's Championship.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Being in the NBA.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Bubble was quite the experience.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
The whole time.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
I was there fifty three days, Yeah, fifty three days.
I was there for the end. So when the very
end of the regular season, playoffs and then into the
interesting time.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Yeah, let's let's go through some of the photos you've
taken that. We kind of pulled to the These are
early ones of me. Ooh, those Clipper teams, now we're talking.
You were around those Clipper teams a lot. I was.
Those Lob City teams were very talented. We just couldn't
get over I mean, I think we couldn't get out
of our own way. Yeah. That was a fun team
and a fun time in La. It was kind of
(37:22):
a time where code was down a little bit, yep,
and those Lob City teams were exciting. This is I
think the last time we played against each other. Yeah,
I was Memphis. He was there. He had just gave
the twins a Jerseys. I don't know if you're in
there for that.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Yeah, got a picture twins, my picture, Yeah that is
your picture.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Yeah, but I'm saying I'm not sure if you got
the picture with him twins he gave them and they
were only like seven, eight years old. Maybe. Yeah, that
was that. We saw you everywhere. Yeah, know, you just
weren't at our games. I mean how often how many
days a week would you be at Staples on a
good week.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Well, I became the director of photography for AG, which
at that time was just Staples Center when when it opened,
actually before it opened in nineteen ninety eight, but ninety
nine when the building opened, then of course got the theater.
So my company still to this day in the twenty
fifth year of being the house photographers for the complex.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
So I was there a lot.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
My office was in the building. I mean, if you
know where the Laker banners are in the upper concourses,
a bunch of offices back there.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I was. That's where my office was.
Speaker 4 (38:22):
And so I was there for every every Laker home game,
every Clipper home game. And I've been to the LA Kings
team photographer for four decades.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
You saw the great one.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Yeah, so I was living there, which wasn't great, not
conducive to family life with you kids growing up at you.
And then when I'm not there, I was on the road.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Yeah, so that's a tough life. I mean you mentioned
at the end that that grind is what kind of
pushed me away from the game. I felt like I
was missing so much time, and I mean your schedule
was more hectic than mine because I just had to
go on mine. You have to go crubb the entire
you know, realm of the league. So yeah, now the
NBA was great. But they they push it, they work,
they work it, and you know for the Grammy trip
(39:03):
for example, when the building shuts down. I mean I'd
be on.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
The road, you know, two weeks in a road doing
nine ten games, and then they'd be like, oh, well
you have a day in between, go to Chicago and
do that game.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Did not take a breather, right your day off? Yeah, man,
that's my rookie year. That's that two thousand and two
or three. Wow. Old school Clippers, And that is definitely
old school because me and Baron, Baron just got here.
That's what we believe. Run right there.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
That was that was you know, I left that out
because and I should remember that was one of the
greatest runs that I really ever part of. Really Oh
to see you guys like kick Dallas's as at home
and that I was there for that game. Baron had
that dunk over Carolinko. Yeah, that's my picture, and uh,
the excitement in that building in Oracle. I mean they
(39:51):
talked about the Warriors, you know, the Steph Curry Warriors.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Which we got to take our hat off to.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
But what you guys did was different, man, little engine that.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Could different energy, some more iconic photos. Wow, Mjan and
his dad Kobe.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
And yeah, yeah, there was some moments.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
When you kind of look back. I mean like for me,
this would be like looking back at like old game
footage or something like how do you I mean, obviously
it's fresh, but like, what are you going to miss about?
I mean, you had one of the greatest jobs anyone
can ever ask for who was a sports fan. What
are you going to miss the most? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (40:22):
I really missed being around the guys. I missed the
routine of getting there, getting arena at a certain time.
I had a very strict routine. Great crew that I
worked with, you know, would set up everything for me,
you know, seeing all the fellas come in and Kibbittsen
in the in the training room with Gary Veanie and
(40:43):
then Gary all this, all the fans that I knew,
both teams courtside and of course the referees and all
this stuff, and then you know, getting to game time
and then locking in and being there to record truly
the greatest athletes on the face of the earth. I mean,
I know that Cliche and David Stern loved talking about that,
but it's really true. I mean, as a photographer, professional
(41:07):
basketball athletes are our gift.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Absolutely, and we were thankful to have someone like you
capturing those moments. Before you get out of here, tell
us a little bit about your podcast, Leedens of Sports.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Thank you. Well, listen, man, I'm just trying to grow
up to be like you. Well, you know my partners.
I have two really close friends who are partners, both
in the sports business in different areas. And you know,
we were seeing about ten years ago or so that
a lot of guys were struggling post retirement, and the
(41:41):
spotlight had moved off of those guys, and not only
did they not make the big money back and we're
talking like, you know, eighties and early nineties, but they
were struggling and they were forgotten about, and we wanted
to kind of shine the light back on, not just
to the stars, but the guys who might have been
part of you know, if you think about the showtime Lakers,
(42:03):
seven eight guys come to mind, but there were like
forty guys who won rings in the eighties that people
might not remember. So we saw sort of a little
bit of a void in the sports content landscape. And
I didn't realize that I really loved doing what you do,
was sitting there talking about stuff, I mean, learning about
(42:24):
people where they started. I actually started a show on
Time Warner, which was you know, previous the Spectrum on
a Laker channel called Through the Lens, where I would
just sit and talk to a Laker personality Genie Buzz,
Gary Ved, James Worthy, whoever about their career through my photos.
(42:46):
And I never thought I could be on the other
side of the camera. I I never envisioned it, but
I took to it.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
I loved it.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
And Norm Pattis, the great late Norm Pattis who owned
podcasts one who you remember sat courtside.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Right in the middle.
Speaker 4 (43:02):
The guy always had their program. A crazy Laker fan
became a great friend and he became a mentor, and
he was helping me sort of call this idea of
legends of sport. And he calls me over before he
gave He goes, Andy, and I saw the show you
did on the Laker Network and I love it. It's great.
It's great you're talking to people. And I said, thank you,
(43:23):
Norman Goes. I got to get that on my podcast network.
And this is like ten years ago, and you know,
I'm still working this photograph and I said. I looked,
literally looked at him. I said, Norm, thank you for that,
But I don't know what a podcast is, you know, i'd.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Heard the term.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
He goes, It's like radio, but just longer interviews. And
I said, well, Norm, with all due respect, you know,
I appreciate you wanting me to, you know, take this
to your podcast network. But it's a visual show, like
we're showing pictures. Can you curse on the show?
Speaker 1 (43:53):
You can? Right, so, he says.
Speaker 4 (43:55):
So he says to me, he says, Andy, nobody gives
a shit about the pictures. They want to hear the story.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
He says.
Speaker 7 (44:01):
They want to see the pictures. That go to your website,
they go to your instagram. I said, Norm, let's do it.
And the next day literally went down to his office
in Beverly Hills. We hammered out something and here I
am doing a podcast and we're in. We're in, you know,
deep into season seven, two hundred and sixty or so interviews,
and I love it.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Yeah, I love it too. I love it, Yeah, I
love it. For you. Before we get you out of you,
I'm gonna put you on the spot one last time.
Your favorite event that you've covered, favorite event only pick
one across all the sports, all the greatness you saw,
I'm gonna put you on the spots. Oh, that is
a tough one. Actually, give me two.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
Well, I really I'd have to say when the Dream
Team won the gold medal in Barcelona ninety two, that
was really amazing because I had been with them all
seven weeks, documenting every step of the way, lived with
those guys, and we all knew they were going to win,
but the moment was, you know, when the flag goes
up and they got the medals on it.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
So that was so.
Speaker 4 (45:01):
Great to capture that. And then you know, MJ's first
championship was unbelievable, but I got it. Really pointed twenty
ten for Kobe's fifth ring, which he was.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
The deam season because they lost to Boston the year Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (45:16):
And he you know, and it was devastating when they
lost in two thousand and eight, and he said at
the time, he said, I'm not retiring until I beat
the Celtics in the finals. And so they got there
and that was such a monumental series.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
The game seven at home, he didn't have a great game,
as you had that shot, right, Yeah, but.
Speaker 4 (45:34):
In his greatness, he was able to defer and you know,
meta hits that shot of out of nowhere. So it
was such a great moment to be there and my
wife was there, my late mother in law was there,
and you know, have family there and be part of
that was really amazing.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Well, Andy Man, it's always been a pleasure working with you,
speaking with You've always just been one of the one
of the real good guys around the game man, And
we appreciate your forty three years of greatness, joy enjoyed
retirement life.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
Thank you, new for you, and thank you for all
the moments.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
That you gave me on that. I appreciate that. I
hope you enjoyed this episode of Unplugged. You can catch
this on all the Smoke Productions YouTube and the Draft
Kings Network. See y'all next week. G
Hosts And Creators
Stephen Jackson
Matt Barnes
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