October 2, 2025 • 62 mins
Spencer Haywood joins All The Smoke for a powerful conversation on basketball, culture, and legacy. Haywood breaks down his landmark lawsuit that changed the NBA forever, reflects on the struggles of his childhood and rise in Detroit, and shares what it was like making the Olympic team at 19. He opens up about his battles with substance abuse during his Lakers days, his road to sobriety, and the stories behind marrying supermodel Iman and mentoring his godson, Common. The crew also gets into Pistol Pete Maravich, turning down early Nike equity, his fight for NIL reform, and the impact of the ABA’s merger with the NBA.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Arizona.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
We got something special for y'all. October third, Ela River
Casino in Phoenix. Straight Game Times All the Smoke Live Show.
Doors open at six thirty, show start to seven thirty.
Tickets on sale through Ticketmaster. Just google Straight Game All
the Smoke Live Show or check the link in my bio.
Catch me, Stack Bib and my dog, e House and
(00:22):
special guests. Make sure you guys pick up a ticket
and meet us there. Welcome back to All the Smoke
Pump Gala twenty twenty five. Yield a great first guest
and we have a legend. This probably this dude is
one of our biggest fans, one of our loudest supporters.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Because we kind of kind of like we kind of similar.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, we was all off the check very off. One
of the real Ojes is always showed love and support.
Five time NBA All Star, four time All NBA, thirteen
year pro. Welcome to the show, Spencer Heywood, Thank.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
You, sir, Yeah, OJ thank you, thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Retired players of your what do you guys think about
just the media and how freely players can not only speak,
how freely they can move, the type of money they
can get, the ability to come in the NBA at
a certain time. What are your guys' thoughts and what
(01:18):
are your thoughts in particular on that.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Well, my thoughts on it is I am the guy
who sued the NBA, the n C two A, and
the Denver Rockets of the ABA all the way to
the Supreme Court so that they could get this ruling
so that you guys can make the kind of money
(01:39):
so you could come into the league when you were qualified,
rather than sitting in a college for four years making
university rich.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
So, yeah, I was that.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I was Jack's right.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I mean obviously amazing, And I really want to kind
of dig into that because I thing people know you
understand your significance not only in your time your ability
to play the game, but what you were doing off
the court. You were really one of the first You
were really one of the pillars that really helped fight
against a system that wasn't ready to see that and
(02:17):
you won. Yeah, what kind of shit did you go
through though? Outside of that while you.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Were doing that?
Speaker 4 (02:22):
While I was doing it.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
The first round of the of the case is when
I sued the NBA for the rights to play because
I had one more year left in college on my
eligibility and the NBA said, no, you can't come in
until the fourth year. I said, I just finished the
(02:45):
ABA where I was the Rookie of the Year, MVP
of the league, MVP of the All Star Game, and
I averaged thirty and twenty at nineteen. So it was
only two players whoever did that in backpro basketball, this
myself and Will Chamblain. But Will was a little bit
(03:07):
older and I was nineteen turning twenty.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
So it was this phenom. But back up a second.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
They were all cool with it when Kareem and other
guys backed out of the sixty eight Olympics and they said, well,
we got an eighteen year old down here at this
junior college that could come in and play in the
Olympics and save us in the Olympics.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
So I went and said, yeah, I'll save you.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Set a record that lasted for forty four years in
the Olympics. The most point points and most rebounds and
the most blocks.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
The mellow got the point who got the points.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
Kevin, Yeah he got it.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
And who got the rebound and blocks still stand.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
No, I think David Robertson at the rebound. At the
rebound then Charles Barkley finished second to me in field
goal percentage.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
A long time. Well, so back up one second. So
you said you were Were you playing in the ABA
while you're still in college?
Speaker 4 (04:05):
No, no, no, no. I left college.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
And that was a big, a big commotion because all
of a sudden, the ABA was allowing me to come
and play. And Hannah Storm's father, Mike Storm, who was
the public relations person for the ABA, when the university says, well,
(04:27):
he's violating and breaking all the rules, we're gonna like
sue the ABA. We're gonna shut him down. Blah blah blah.
He got up at the press conference and said, what
we're doing here is we are allowing Haywood to play
because he's in dire need. It's called a hardship rule
(04:48):
because his mother and his family was still picking cotton
in Silver City, Mississippi, for two dollars a day. And
he said, we're gonna give him reparation. And so the
whole media just shut down like, oh God, so we're
gonna let him play. And so that's how I ended
up playing in the ABA. I was a test case.
(05:11):
And right after that test case, we had Julius Irv
and George gurb and all the guys.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
So you were the initial you opened the door to
that door to that yes, speak at the time, although
the actually I don't you want to call the NBA
the destination back then, because I don't know. But the
ABA was just as good, if not better than the
NBA if I'm not.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, because we had the young players, we had the
young energy, we had, we had style. They were wearing
blue and gray. We were like pink purples, yeah, froze
and flash yeah. So it was a different kind of game.
And then we would open up because we were playing
and open floor games where they would walk walking up
the floor, boom boom and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
There any truth to you dodging golf balls to get.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Well in Mississippi?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
So break that down because I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Well, what happened. Bel What happened was there was the
assassination of John F. Kennedy. And when we wasn't working
in the cotton fields, you know, we would work at
the golf course as caddies. And so these yahoos said,
they ag gone it, boys, we're going to have some
(06:20):
fun today. So they lined up all of us and
the young kids out on the golf this time, I
was twelve and these are grown man.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
He's a grown man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
And so my younger brother Floyd and his friend Buddy,
and so we were all allowed in the line of
ducking the balls. And then when the ball came and
it was driving, it was afo driving range. So they
would drive at us and we would rolling and the
ball would hit you in the back. You roll over
with it. My friend Buddy didn't. He got clocked in
his head, in his head and he was never right
(06:51):
going on. But that was part of the putting us
in place, because we were like happy that FK had
won the election. So we were like walking around the
golf course like, you know, got a chance, We got
a chance here. I won't have to be in this
cotton field all of my life, you know. And when
(07:12):
that happened, they showed us, you know what kind of
chance you got. So it was just the cruelty of
the South and of the world at that time, So
we had to go with the flow.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
You were also around during the Matill stuff. And how
old were you at that time.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
At mattil It was fifty nineteen fifty five, so I
was six and seven.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Do you remember it vividly?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
And all down in Mississippi it was like and he
was maybe sixty miles from where I was from all
through Mississippi, it was like, my god, it was a
chill throughout this throughout the South. Would a child he
had to do that to a child? But I mean,
I live in a city, so I've seen all of
(08:01):
that and experienced all of that. When people would come
down south from the North and they didn't know the
rules there, and these farmers and other people there would say,
teach you a lesson, and that's what they would do.
And that's how I got out of Mississippi. I was
(08:23):
working at the country club and I was playing ball,
playing really good basketball at that time at fourteen, and
they said I was like yelling at the people at
the country club. So they put me in jail for
one night. And my mother said, I got to get
you out of here. So and I could not leave
(08:45):
from Silver City because you know, that's the farm country.
So you had to go to another city. So we
went to Balizonia and caught a bus, got up to Chicago.
And at that time I thought my brothers was rich
because they used to come down south, you know, from
with a roll of fools roll you know.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
But I was a.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Fools because I was a kidding, so I thought they
were rich.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
So I said, oh, man, I'm hanging out with my brothers. Man,
this is some This is money boys here. So money boys.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
And so the money boys said, well, man, you know
that car we was driving was rented. I was a crush.
I said, well, am I going to have this bedroom
on this on this first floor of this townhouse that's
not ours. We only got the fourth floor. You sleeping
on the floor. So I was sleeping on the floor.
(09:41):
And they would like just walk around with those green
jelly looking suits, you know, and those white looking those
Staceys shoes with the stitches. He was sitting around on Friday,
polishing up the stitches on those staceys. I was like,
if I could get out of here, because they was
I was going to go to Crane Tech in Chicago,
(10:02):
and they were telling me, boy, we're gonna make some
money out of you this year.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
I was like, please let me get out.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
And so finally my brother came over from the for
he was going to the Bowling Green State University. He
played ball with me and worked with worked with me
out on the playground, and said, you got to get
out of here. You're a great player, you just got
to get away from these boys, your brothers. So the
first thing I did was before we left. My brother
(10:33):
Andrew had been bullying me for all my life. So
I said, I got to get this brother, I gotta
get this. So I stole him and then we would
we duked it out. Yeah, I beefed on him. So
(10:55):
on top of that, he had on his jelly looking
suit with half a pint in his pick pocket. So
I took a rock and hit that paint bamn and
that whiskey his leg and I said goodbye.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
To Detroit.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
He busted his nose fuses.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Drink up word he most drink.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
That was the case.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Drank now messing with that man. This was brown whiskey.
This is not like you know. Come on.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
It was the first draw crown water still in the
purple bag.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
That was before the purple bag.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I think it was gold.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
It was gold.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
The first bag was gold. They went to purple.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I don't even think they had gold bags.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
No, no, no, no, no, the first crown.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
But he got it off the shelf. He was probably
had some make believe crime. Yeah. It was like everything
that they had was like Baptist brew fake out. And
then my brother came in and he took me down
to Bowling Green State University, and I was just playing
with all of the greats down there, Howard Kolemis, Nate Thurman,
(12:04):
all of those guys. And they said, man, you need
to go to Detroit and you get a good coach
to adopt you, and you'll be all right. So I
went to Detroit to play in this big tournament that
called krunk Box fifteen fifteen. Yeah. So I had no
place to stay, nothing, so they put me in this tournament.
(12:26):
I played against George Trapp, all of the high school
phenoms in Detroit. Man, I had been running through cotton
fields all my life. I played. I was looking at
these guys like they were tired. I was like, oh good.
So I ran through those guys and then they said, well,
oh he's not that good. Let him play against Kazie
(12:48):
Russell and all of the college boys. Kazie Russell, Bill
Buttons and all of those guys. So I played against
them that hell my own I had like seventeen ten
and then said, okay, one last shot put him on
the court with the pros, and Dave Bing said, I
got him on my team. So I went out and
played again. This is three games in that that day.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
At years old.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Yeah, yeah, I was out of the cotton field.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
This is.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
How did the game go with the pros.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
The pros?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
I killed the pros. Yeah, And I was running and
I was like, can I get a Can I please
get a Fago soda pop? They were like, you can
have what you want.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
You went water belly won everything.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
So I was I was.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Enjoyed, and so Will Robinson walked up on me and said,
I want you to come to Persian High School. In
order for that to happen, we're gonna have to adopt you.
Because a white coach, black coach, first black coach to
coach n C to a division one, Will Robinson and
so he adopted me. And I remember the first day
(13:57):
of practice. I walked into the gym and I'm shooting
long shots because I'm down south. You know we shoot
long ball. So he said, hold it practice. He said, boys,
we've been playing like mules. We got us a goddamn
(14:18):
horse and we're gonna ride this some bitch all the
way to the state championship. So the Detroit schools hadn't
been to the state championship in thirty five years because
once we got out of the city, the fix was in,
Like it was with you guys that were at y'all
played the Malice in the Palace, so the fix was in.
(14:41):
So we didn't get up, but we got there and
we want it all and and that was a beautiful night.
Man win it all the first time and everything. And
then all of a sudden, I decided, well, I want
my mama to see me play. So I signed with
the University of Tennessee out of high school, not knowing
(15:01):
that I was the first black in the Southeast Eastern Conference.
I just want my mom to see me play because
she didn't see me play in high school. So I
get down and get off upset. I just lost to
bellby Joel, Billy, Bobbie, Joel and all those guys from
Texas Western, the first black team to win. I'm supposed
(15:24):
to get the first black. So that's when the argument
took place. But the University of Tennessee and then Willis says,
I got a place for you, perfect. I want you
to go to this school called Trinidad State Junior College
in Colorado on the border of Colorado and New Mexico.
But you're gonna love it. It's very close to Denver,
(15:45):
very close to Albuquerque, four hundred and fifty miles from Albrikirque,
three hundred and sixty miles from Denver. I didn't try
to get you know, get there. So that's how I
ended up on the Olympic team because I was the
MVP of the junior college.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
I was the best player there were.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
They still training in Colorado at the time, the Olympic team.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
No, no, we were like we were playing and we
had the trials in Albuquerque. So Jerry Tarkanian, he is
like the big dude, you know what I mean, you
know unf but he wasn't at UNLV at the time.
He was at some junior college. He put up our
team together and we came down to Albuquerque to play
(16:29):
against Pete Marybridge.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
All the greats were there.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
In the gym man our junior college team ran over everybody.
Oh really, I mean these people were like, where are
these people coming from? Who are these people? And so
Hank Iver came over to John McLendon who was the
assistant coach for the Olympic team in nineteen sixty eight
(16:55):
and sixty eight, we had had some big problems because
that was the year when the revolution was going on
in America. Kareem decided to boycott. Alvin Hayes and west
Ansell signed a pro contract because you had to be
a amateur. My Bob Lanier and other players decided they
(17:19):
didn't want to come to the trials, so they were
like stranded. And I was like, I'm the guy that's
going to do this. And they were like, what are
you talking about. You're too young. And I was like, yeah,
I guess I'm going to get this gear and go
back to Detroit and sell my boys. Hey man, I
tried out for the Olympic team. And so we played
and kept playing this stuff, and they started at the
(17:43):
end of it, they said, let's get our team together.
Who were going to pick on the Olympic team. They
had told me that I was too young. I'm a freshman,
so I was just there, let me get my gear,
and Hank Iver and John mclenny said, well, first player,
pick Spencer Haywood out. I don't have a passport, and
(18:10):
so they then they start cutting Pete Maverage, Wow, Calvin Murphy.
They were cutting players like I was like, whoa what
kind of player team are we gonna have? And plus
I don't In the back of my mind, everyone was
supposed to bring their passports and I didn't have one.
So I was in my mind like, they're gonna cut
(18:32):
me again because I don't have a passport. So they says, well,
we got to solve that problem. Son, Let's call your mother.
My mother don't have no phone backwards in Mississippi. So
he ended up getting her to come to the grocery
store and she picked up the phone and said, yes,
I got this passport right here. I got this birth certificate.
(18:52):
You can get this passport. It's right here on.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
The John twenty one in my bible. They said.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
It says, well, you gotta have to send that bible
up here so we can take a picture and move
it down. She says, hey, baby, baby, baby, this Bible
been with me since I was four years old. It's
not leaving. So we had to fly Mississippi take a picture,
and they created the burst, I mean the birth certificate.
(19:21):
And I got my passport and I was off to Russia.
I said, man, my big trip.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Vego was back then.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Huh you said, Fago Fago. It was a big Pops
soda Pops center there.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
So Fago was soda back then.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeah, back in Detroit, that was That's the way it
was made.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
I'm just saying, you know, I just got hit the
Fago by like ten years ago.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Now.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
I used to sit at Will's house looking at it like, wow,
I just want to get me out. I just want
to get a root beer and I want to get
a fag. Got some good flavors, good flavors. Yeah, you
know what I'm talking about. So I was that was
my journey, and then until I moved over with a
(20:05):
family named James and Ida Bell. But I was down
there with all the lawyers and the doctors in Detroit
and stuff. But back to this this trip to Russia.
So we get to Russia and we were scrimmaging against
the Russians and they were like, you black people being
cheated in America. You come live with us. And we said, well,
(20:26):
Charlie Scott and Jojo White and we were like all white.
So we were like, can we order pizza? What's a pizza?
We said this, you can't order pizza here.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
What was that experience like though, I mean the Olympics
year year with eighteen nineteen.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Yeah, nineteen, what was that like? Oh gosh, that was
when we got back. Before we got back to America,
we stopped and putting scrimmaged against the Knicks and Willis
reed and all of the wal Frasian all of them
were saying, man, you guys got a good squad. Y'all
might get a gold medal or medal in the Olympics,
(21:06):
you know. And then we went from there to play
against Oscar in the Cincinnati Royals, and Oscar pulled me
aside and said, you're gonna win this bitch, and that
just blew my My mind was like, let so then
we get to Mexico City. They had the students had
(21:27):
rioted in Mexico City, so there's blood and everything on
the streets, so us wiping up the blood and stuff.
But we were like, man. And at the same time,
the Olympic Committee had met with John Carlos and Tommy Smith,
and they had met with Jackie Robinson, and earlier that
summer they met with Martin Luther King and then just
(21:50):
before then he was he was murdered Kennedy was murdered,
not JF. But Robert F. Kennedy was murdered. And here
we were, were in Mexico City, and this big old
dude kept looking at me, and I'm looking at him.
I'm like, why are you looking at me?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Brother?
Speaker 3 (22:08):
He said, Man, I got an eating partner. I was like,
what are you talking about? I want somebody to go
with me to the commissary. We're gonna eat this motherfucker
out of a house and home. George Foreman, Oh, big George.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
Big George.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
So so so we got working and playing and stuff,
and and Tommy Smith and John Carlos was like the
leader of the whole Olympic, the Olympic village, because yeah,
wasn't like when you guys play, y'all have like condos
and shit. We were standing in the dorms and so
we all just hung out and we were learning. I
(22:45):
was learning so much from those guys about the revolution,
about everything, because hey, I'm like two years but three
years out of Mississippi, out of the cotton field backwood.
So uh, one night we were like questioning whether we're
going to boycott show something some kind of movement with
(23:08):
the Olympic team with the Olympic team, the black players
and we had a lot of white players as well.
Wanted to show that we was in solidarity with what
was going on in America because we were at the
riots in Detroit, we had the riots in California, we
had them in Newark, New Jersey. It was just chaos
(23:30):
and everybody was like them Toms who went them? Uncle
Tom's down there playing in the sixthty eight Olympics. Why
don't you do like Kareem? And it was like the
whole atmosphere. Yeah, well John was there.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
He was real what I'm saying, He wasn't budget situation.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Like I mean when they when when they raised their
fist on the podium.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
They raised their fists on the podium, they put on
and they put the black gloves on, and we were like,
oh my god, you mean they did it because the
head of the Olympics with Avery Brandage. Avery Brandage was
a friend in the close associate with Hitler. Wow, so
(24:16):
that we knew there was going to be some trouble here.
So Charlie Scott and Jojo Man, we gotta be cool.
You don't do nothing, don't say nothing. So I was like,
I'm not gonna say anything. I don't like John and
Tommy anyway, right now, I was just joking.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
But you know, so when.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
They did that, they took their passports, walked them through us,
had all of us on the Olympic team, and let
us look walk them through their Man, that hurt me
so bad.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
Because they did.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
They had They kept us all organized at the Olympics,
they kept us strong, they kept us in faith. They
were the leaders. And then to walk them through us
and then get out of here, get out of here.
Kicked them out of the Olympics, the village and they
had to go back home where people were like throwing things.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah, you not understanding the magnitude at the.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Time, we no, I didn't care, and so.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Man, and then all of a sudden we had to
play the final game. And with all of that stuff
going on, I'm just choking because I'm the star. They said, oh,
were close to winning. Howard Cosell, what do you think, fella,
you're gonna be able to go back to Detroit? Black
folks going to kill you. So you could see me playing,
(25:36):
I make a layup and run straight into the locker room,
threw up all over the place.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Come right back.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
I run back on the floor and we won their
gold and they announced that I was the MVP. And
I was standing there, you know, like three years ago,
I'm in the cotton field, not even having life itself,
and now I'm an American hero with the gold medal.
(26:05):
I just broke down and start crying. My legs got
weak and I was falling down and Jojo, standing like
a man, woke you up.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
He pulled me up and stand.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Like a man. Bill hoskinting them guys stand up now,
this is your time. So I was like wow. So
that was beautiful. And then the big deal. Howard Cosette
was like, what are you gonna do when you go
back to Detroit? They hate you for what you've done.
I was like, how could they hate me? So we're
thinking Will Robinson I was there. We're flying into Detroit.
(26:38):
We're thinking, man, these brothers are gonna kill us.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Man.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
So we flew into Detroit. We landed, it was like
four thousand black and white were there celebrating, celebrating us man,
And I was like, wow, that's beautiful. America is America
is something else man too?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
How nice was how nice was Pete?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Oh God? Pete was magic Johnson, Nate Archibald, he was
that combination. He he was, he was something special.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
How tall was he? Sixty three six.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Three sixty four? But his handle was like, uh, look
did you play with he had? He had some Pete
in him too.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
White Jay Will j Will Yeah, white yeah, white chocolate.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Chocolate had some Pete in him. And I always told
him when we was in Mexico City, they were celebrating
my fifty return and I was like, you.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Got yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Pete and I played together when I was with the
New Orleans Jazz with Elgin Baylor the coach. Oh wow yeah.
And then they moved us to to Utah and I
was like, oh culture shock hated it, but I didn't
got it. I didn't go because I was married to
Emon at the time, and she was like, I can't go.
(28:10):
I've been to New Orleans. I can't go to you.
I need to work, I need to do things.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
But hold on, you're just casually saying you're married to
one of the biggest supermodels of all time. Let's talk
about that, Spence. Yes, because John was telling us some
ship before you came in here, like how did you
bag E? Mon? Man.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
She saw me, she said, Oh, I want him so bad.
No she didn't.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
I'm about to believe it.
Speaker 5 (28:38):
Yeah, no, no, he's stupid, bro.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
So we were in New York and I was with
the next she had just came over from East Africa,
from Somali.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
How do you don't mind me asking him?
Speaker 3 (28:57):
What am I with? Jack? Yeah? No, I'm seventy six.
So we were having dinner and it was like the
sports meets the fashion industry, and so at that time
(29:19):
I was reading the Koran and I was and she
was from a Muslim country, and so we started talking
about the profit and different things and just talking. And
then everybody at the table said, oh boy, them two together.
And so that's how we hooked up to start hanging,
and and the next thing you know, we were we
(29:40):
spent all of our time because I had just got
to the Knicks from Seattle, from the Sonics, so I
didn't know anybody but Earl and Clyde and Phil Jackson,
you know those guys. But Pheel and want to hang
because he was smoking a lot.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
We officially took your shot.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Huh did you take you become yes?
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Yes, yes, yes?
Speaker 1 (30:03):
To greet each other. It's only right that we greet each.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Other, right, yes, sir. So then we hung out and
we just started hanging with each other, just spending time.
And my other good friend in that group was BJ
Beverly Johnson. Yeah girls, so them girls, no, no, no,
So what happened was I didn't know because I had
(30:27):
to switch over to the fashion industry because I didn't
New York was like scattered, players didn't get together like that.
So I just hung out with the fashion world bad
as women.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
And you know what I'm saying, I don't need I
don't need nobody.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
We're listening to jazz, doing everything, enjoying our life.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
What is that kind of Obviously media isn't what it
is today, but I mean, you're hanging with two of
the biggest supermodels in the world. You're one of the
biggest basketball players in the world. What's the attention like
around you? Is it cameras, is it talk? What is
it like?
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Yeah, it was pretty aggressive because the fact that.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
Yeah, I was mister Nick.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
That's a huge crossover, and then she was the world
famous model just came here from Somalia, so it was
really something.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
And we got on Good Morning America.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
And we was talking about our marriage, and we were
just emone had just we had just I had just
got a notice from the NBA because I did a photo.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
With Eman.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
I was just holding my hand over her breast and
her stomach was out with my baby inside. So the
league was like, now, wait a minute, we're not that progressive.
Don't let us don't let us catch you doing that
kind of stuff anymore. So I got my cue. It
wasn't nothing exotic, but it was exotic. It was shot
(31:52):
by Michael ryan Hard, a very famous photographer. So and
we got on Good Morning America. So we were just
talking like, man, we're gonna bring uh, We're gonna bring
culture to the blacks in America and and we're gonna
take technology to the Africans in Africa. Somebody there, maybe
(32:15):
the CIA or someone was like, whoa wait a minute,
to slow your hands down here, bro, you may be crazy,
but you ain't no food.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
So we saw to slowed down and then whenever.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
Wherever you want, just don't help us get the nigga
smart watch out.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
I'm just telling you do what you want, You do
what you want, but.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
You watch out now.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
So then when I when I got traded, uh, before
I I got traded. When I was wouldn't report to Utah.
So we got to l A and I was like,
oh my god, I'm with my boy because he was
with me when I took my sho how to Kareem
art Hazard. All these people were here, you know U
(33:00):
c l A people.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
So yeah, so I slipped.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Into another group and Emon was just constantly begging me,
please don't go with these people. And I was like, man,
I'm prior, and what the fucking.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Yeah, but he was having coke, came with some other stuff.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
He came with some other stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
So I slipped. Man, I slipped badly. And uh, while
playing with the Lakers, I'll tell you how stupid it was.
I would come to practice and we're watching the films
and Magic would look at me and say, what, man,
you got to get your hands together. You're losing your hands. Man.
(33:51):
They knew what was going on, but I was like,
I was in denial of about the cocuson, about freebas
and so I had answers for everything. I had some
fucking as. At this point, I was twenty eight, twenty nine,
right in your prime, yeah, prime.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Shit.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
I came to averaging twenty four points and twelve rebounds.
Speaker 5 (34:15):
A lot of people were saying to me because drugs
was big, not just what you was doing, but drugs
was big and leaked here.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Oh it's everybody was on.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
It had white because it's like a fraternity, you know,
had just wiped through us.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Man.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
I came in there with, like I said, twenty four
and twelve. By mid season, I was down to seventeen
and seven. By the end of the season, I was
at seven and five, twenty pounds lighter basically. And so
we would have film session and Magic is like, what
(34:51):
we need your baby, We need you. And I was like,
I got you, brother, I got you. And he said
like look at this film here. You see I dropped
that pass on you like this it's missing your hand,
like you drop it. I was like, hold it, it's
not me, it's you Magic. You see that look running back,
(35:15):
running back, running back, pat pat riding running back.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
See all that spending he's got on that ball.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah, I'm in denial. I mean you know, so I'm like, okay,
so Korean step up, okay now would now it's enough
of this ship. I said, Okay, what's going on, big fella?
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Brother?
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Man?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
What we're doing what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Cap.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
So Cap says, you have fallen off so far in
the rebounds. We can't make it without you getting the rebounds.
I said, Cap, let's look at the tape again. So
Camp looks at the tape and I said, to see
your skyhook is coming off.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
Way.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
I'm going to the side. Well, I normally on this side.
So they were like just sitting there like, oh God,
this would.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
Hopeless, this is not this is not my guy.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
I was in deep man, and so one day I
was on my way to practice. I had had a
real crazy night. We were in the playoffs for the finals.
I had I gotta have one more shot. I gotta
have one more hit.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
So I.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Stayed up and just you know, I was piping man
ship free base Man. What I want to snort for
when I got free base right to the money. So
I'm driving along, I get up on the I get
(36:56):
up to the thing and I'm like, I mean, all
of a sudden, I all asleep and I'm hearing cars banging,
people banging on my door. I'm like, hey, what the
are y'all doing?
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Hitting my rolls roars like this.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
So I go to practice. Yeah, So then I run
to practice and I decided, well, I think I can
run it out of me before this practice start.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
I ran.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
I ran around the tractors, running and all of us.
So I then I get to the practice and I'm
so freaking tired and so fucked up?
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Did I fall asleep? Here's Jamal, Get up, Get up,
Get up, get up.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
I'm like, where I am?
Speaker 2 (37:34):
I ship We're in the finals, but you're in fairy
tale land.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
I'm really good.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
So that's when the team decided, well it's best that
you stay home for a while. And I'm like, but
we only got two more games, three more games. And
that was my my journey with that, and so from that,
(38:03):
From that, Emon was like, well, I know what you
can do. You know they told me, you know you
need to get out out of wet places and wet faces.
And I said, well, I'll go back to New York
with the Knicks and I'll go back to Utah. I
can be clean in Utah. And everybody had put the
word out and David Stern had said, man, I need
(38:24):
you to take the fall for this leg. Really, So
I went to I went to Italy, and then I
came back to Washington and had a grand season, was
killing them, and then Eman was in an automobile accident.
I had been away from my family and stuff so
(38:46):
long that I just said I got a call the
quits because I had her sister, her brother, and Nadia
was with us all the time. So you know, you
bring an African family with you got a family out
your family. So I left the game and then in
mine over there just bugging me still about going to
(39:08):
see a psychologist or a.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Psychologist, and I was like that shit is for models.
So I went in.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I went in and started going to see one, and
then I loved it. I mean, I was able to
He was talking to me about PTSD, about what I
went through with the trial and all of that stuff.
So I was like, oh, Ship, this is pretty cool.
So from that, I've now been in forty two years.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Graduations and how long did it take you to kick
the habit all in from when you started to when
you look.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Three years?
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Three years?
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yeah, and kind of lost side of everything.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
I mean, I just I mean, once I got back
and once she healed up, I and my sponsor was saying,
you know, you can't live in wet places, and wet faces,
So I had.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
To step away because we're still dirty at that time
to fall, the league was still.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
Dirty, dirty.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
So I said, well, let me just move to Detroit.
And Iman was cool enough to say, we had a daughter.
You take the daughter while I finished my modeling, and
then we'll work joint custody and custody back and forth.
We didn't have to go through no lawyers or nothing.
We just know what we had to do.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
So so you retired early thirty two, thirty.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
Three, thirty two, and at my peak, I'm ready, But
it was more important for you than that family. Yeah,
because I mean, and then even they don't even know
the language here, so I had to take.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
Care of that.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
As you guys. A relationship today today perfect amazing.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
It's not perfect, but it's all cool because we talk
a lot.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Nothing perfect.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
No, we talk a lot and some of our daughters,
my oldest daughter.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
And two daughters with her.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
I have one daughter, one daughter, Zoe Laker, and I
have a granddaughter and my other daughters. I have four daughters, girls,
all girl. I got six, okay, so you know what
I'm talking about. So they're like always like, why y'all,
why are y'all talking when we was at the Knicks
(41:24):
games this year for the playoffs, Walt Trasi and Earl
and all, I'm like, what, y'all, what you're gonna do?
Speaker 1 (41:30):
What?
Speaker 3 (41:31):
I'm like, Man, I can't bring that to this game,
y'all would blow us up. So it's we're fun. Were
having fun with each other because she lost her husband,
David boy. I lost my wife three years ago, Linda.
And so my daughter that used to go with me
to see my psychiatrists, she's a psychologist Shakira. Wow. Yeah,
(41:57):
that's her brand. She's doing real well. My other daughter
Isis y'all probably know Isis. She's over at Adidas doing
real well up in Portland. Uh. My next daughter is
a professor at Lincoln University and zue Lak and my
oldest daughter she works with her mother, Ima Inc. And
all of that stuff. So life is pretty good with me.
(42:20):
And I've been I've been cleaning sober, you know, for
the forty two years. And of course, I you know,
I wouldn't. I wouldn't be fitted to say that that
clean and sober, but I do. No, of course, I'm
just saying no.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
We knew that already, Like you knew that already.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
That's that's a different level.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
Okay, then I'm just saying what was.
Speaker 5 (42:44):
Like breathing, especially campus these days, everybody needed My mom
was was punish.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Me all kind of student in high school. Now she
called me, where's that did you? So I get I
get it.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
But what Matt and I was talking about for the
retired players, we have like over three thousand players, and
we was like just talking about, you know, things, creams for.
Speaker 4 (43:08):
Your knees and all of these ready.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
But everybody was like, soul you you were Madden Jack
and you guys, I'm.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Like ahead of the curve. You was just ahead of
the curve.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Yeah, I know how accurate was Winning time?
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Winning Time was very accurate with me.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Wood Harris, he's one of my favorite actors, by.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
The way, that's my guy.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
And you, yeah, cooked me up real nice.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
Because I was.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Nervous that, I mean, what is he gonna do it?
They're gonna have me, uh, you know, just way off
the rockers. So when I talked to Wood after you
had spoken with him, and then I said, go for it, brother,
don't play around with this. And I talk with Rodney Burns,
who's the writer, and I was like, you know, let
it go. We need to tell young player is we
(44:00):
need to show them that the life is wasn't It's
not that playover thing, you know. It's a lot. It's
a lot involved here, and so how you can fall,
how you can pick yourself up, how you can move on.
And so that's what they did with me. And now
I have a deal with Lionsgate to do the whole
Spencer story.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Congratulations.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
Yeah, and so now I'm just circling back because I'm
thinking we got Mario van Peeples doing the directory and
we got Common.
Speaker 5 (44:33):
Really, you know, it's just seen him yesterday, Yes, my
god at the risk yesterday.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
That's my godson. Can I tell you all the story
about how you almost became Maclamore?
Speaker 4 (44:47):
M hm, you know, the rapper from the Settle.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
And so his father played with me in Denver.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Common's father comments from.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
He played with me in the ab and his mother
was and so she she was still and but she
was like taking care of and I was this young
player that was in the league and everybody was taking
a shot at me, you know. So Lonney was my
guy that like they if they touch you, I'm gonna
I'm boring. He's from Chicago disable High School. So it's
(45:21):
like you know, six for they chisel. Yeah. So uh,
they took care of me and made sure that everything
was right. And then when girls would coming around and
were like, get away, get away, he's got a career.
That's Common's mother. So we were all type this family.
And so when he was born, they asked me to
(45:42):
be his godfather. And so I get to that. I
get to Seattle after I won my case, and I'm like,
you know, having an all Pro season, I was finished
third behind Kareem and West. Uh behind Kareem and Nate
Archibald for m VP, and so I said, man, that
would be nice if I could get my boy here
(46:04):
in Seattle. So I spoke to Russ Bill Russell, he
was our coach. I said, Russ, can we give him
a tryout? And he said, yeah, get him out here.
So I didn't know what shape Loney was in. I
didn't know he was using anything. So I just said, hey, man,
come on out, and we're gonna give you a shot,
a real good shot, and you know I'm gonna I'm
gonna protect you to a degree. Solenney grabbed up his
(46:28):
family illegally, who had come and he was two years old.
So they coming to Seattle, and so he had basically
kidnapped him. So they was coming to Seattle, so they
had to get Loney and arrest him for a minute,
(46:48):
and they went back to Chicago. And so Common is
always talking this ship nowadays. You know, if that had,
if I hadn't, if that ship had worked out in Seattle,
I would have in the black Blamore and the other
guy was the name I like them, butts lot, So
(47:08):
Common would have been so mix a lot of black Macklamore.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
Can't you tell the story about the time you declined
equity with Nike? Oh boy, oh boy, break that down.
We talked to Magic and he turned down a similar deal.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
I know, but his wasn't his. He had a little
bit of time. I was in nineteen seventy two and
seventy three. Nike came out with the shoe and I said, yeah,
I would wear it. Because Phil Knight, we were all
up in Portland and Seattle, so that was a whole
another area for you know, just business and everything else.
(47:44):
So you were just like it's like hippies and shit.
So so he came and said, would you wear my shoe?
I said, yeah, of course I wear we Northwest boys
were down and so and he said, okay, I'm gonna
give you some stock in this company. First of all,
I was young too, and I'm thinking livestock. Yeah, what
(48:09):
are you talking about stock? So I get the stock,
and my boy, did I let do the negotiation. He
was like struggling, you know, having bills taking care of
So he was like convincing me, man, that shoe is
never going to work because look at what happened. Because
when I was walking running down the floor, guys would
(48:31):
come behind me and pop my shoe off.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
Like a step on your heel and step on our heel.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
That night, it didn't have the it was new running shoe.
Yeah from front free Fontaine.
Speaker 4 (48:43):
Yeah it was.
Speaker 3 (48:43):
That's kind of.
Speaker 4 (48:45):
That's so they popping off.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
So I'm like, well maybe, So I said, okay, man,
I give you the power of attorney.
Speaker 4 (48:52):
Let me just go play. I gotta, I gotta.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
I got to really focus on this game now because
this is my chance. And when I came back here
sold like sh I said, man, I got the cash
right here.
Speaker 4 (49:05):
I much hundred thousand.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
So any idea what that could have been today? Ten
percent it was.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
Up around two point seven, big.
Speaker 4 (49:15):
Years ago. You're still friends with him, yes, because we
all was making we.
Speaker 3 (49:21):
Were young man.
Speaker 4 (49:22):
The league was young gym shoes.
Speaker 3 (49:25):
We only had two shoes. We had like the two
shoes were Converse. I didn't like the Converse because it's
just so flat, and Wilt Chamberlain wore them and he
blocked me three times in one game, and so I
was like, fuck them, never wear their fucking shoes and uh,
and then we had what else? The other one was
(49:45):
pro kids, a hard bottom shoe, and then you had
Wald Fraser's shoe. But nobody wanted to compete with walk
so interesting, So that was my Nike.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Were you negotiating with phild Night directly?
Speaker 2 (49:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (50:00):
Wow, that's crazy. Well he was at that time. He
didn't have the shop, you know. Yeah, just he had
to handle him out of out of his talking and
it's like that way. So I did do the big
commercial for them. Ah, it's the original poster for Nike
because they had no other players and it's me standing,
you can only get this shoe at this location. So
(50:25):
I have that post. So I do talk to Phil.
Phil was came to me when I was inducted into
the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (50:34):
Oh my guys, can't yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Any relationship or m J stories, Michael George stories.
Speaker 4 (50:40):
Yeah, Mike.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
I'm in New York and I'm trying to figure out man,
I'm negotiating because we were like part of the players
Union too, and they were doing this uh negotiation. So
I get this call from Mike. I'm like, what the
are you calling me for? You corporate and I'm the grunt.
So Mike said, close down, Let's have some dinner, man.
(51:03):
So we you know, we had a nice dinner. We
talked a lot of shit and he kept telling me.
He kept telling all the other owners and everything that
was there. This was the first Nike guy. I wouldn't
have had my contract if he had threw his away.
And I was like, Mike, you can't do it like that.
(51:25):
But Mike was so cool.
Speaker 4 (51:28):
He was just showing some love.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
How does it? I mean again, I don't think, and
I could be right. I don't think you got the
love and respect you deserved for everything you did from
on and off the court. But when you get it
back from your peers or some legends in the game,
does that kind of help a little bit?
Speaker 4 (51:44):
It helps a lot this today. You know, I've waited
for yes because y'all my boy. Yeah, So I mean,
I'm just saying, uh.
Speaker 3 (51:56):
But you know, when you take a stand like that,
Muhammad Ali, Kurt Flood, Jackie Robinson, and myself, there's a
thing called Mount Rushmore of the people who changed the game.
And I'll get that shot to you to as well.
And so so you know when you do that. And
(52:17):
I went against the universities. Now they're gonna call me
before the Congress again coming up, coming up because of
the fact that they want to change the nil now
that black folks are getting a little paid.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
That's Trump.
Speaker 3 (52:30):
There you go. You said the word, say it again dump.
So he wants to change it. So that I'm like,
you can't do that, man, you got to be better
than this. You're the president.
Speaker 5 (52:44):
Anytime they see us getting ahead of anything, it's gonna
try to throw a monkey wrench in it.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yeah, but we're stronger than that, so we'll get through it.
So I'm going to testify, and I'm with the.
Speaker 4 (52:55):
Congression of Black Congress.
Speaker 3 (52:58):
And now I'll talk about the importance of it and
the importance of this ruling, the importance of my ruling,
because my ruling alone has helped to create that. These
are not scientific numbers, but they're my nums. Over sixty
five billion dollars for player salary from nineteen sixty from
(53:20):
nineteen seventy one. In nineteen seventy one, when I won
my case Haywood versus the NBA, we only had fourteen
teams because we didn't have a pool in which to
pour it from from young guys coming up. And they
had told the old heads in the leg that if
you let him get in here, these young guys like
(53:42):
Matt and Jack, they're gonna come in and put you
guys out of business. So they didn't support me. So
I just look at it all man is. I was
vegan basically for thirty one years until my wife passed.
Now I'm eating fishing game, I've been working out. I
pray a lot. I enjoy life. I have my my
(54:08):
four daughters I got since I don't having it sons,
I got three grandsons.
Speaker 4 (54:13):
They go for any ship. I tell them, you know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (54:18):
They like, yeah, okay, So.
Speaker 4 (54:23):
I'm enjoying life.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
You got to ensure good hands in good hands. And
then I go to the games. I watched the games
a lot. I watched the young players play, and I'm like, Wow,
these fellatherfuckers can play. They can play quick question.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
We got a little quick hitters up, but real quick.
We spoke to George Gervin last at the beginning of
this week and he said, although Magic and Bird are
credited with saving the NBA, he kind of felt like
the influx with the A B A coming into the
NBA is really what's.
Speaker 3 (54:56):
That changed the game because I told you before you know,
they was in blue and gray suits and brown suits
and they was going down. I'll tell you what happened.
My first game in Seattle or the third game in Seattle.
I ripped the ball off and palmed it and flicked
it over to Lenny Wilkins.
Speaker 4 (55:16):
Lenny Wilkins said.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
Go And I got the ball at the half court
and I just was dribbled and I said, oh shit,
I'm behind the free throw line. Maybe I'll take a dunk.
I took off and like just to show him what
it was all about, and dump bam. And they were like, he's.
Speaker 4 (55:33):
A hot dog.
Speaker 2 (55:36):
You jumped from the free throw line any game?
Speaker 3 (55:38):
Yes, yes, And they said he's a hot Dog. So
that was the new look of the and I was
the first one to come to the NBA from the ABA,
So that was the whole look. So later on that season,
everybody was looking for something exciting to happen, you know.
So and that's when Sam Shuman, the owner of the
(56:01):
Sonic set, I'm gonna get me some more of them,
so he went, he got John.
Speaker 1 (56:06):
Let me give you some more of them.
Speaker 2 (56:07):
Yeah, black boys.
Speaker 5 (56:09):
Yeah, John Brisker, a couple of them.
Speaker 3 (56:13):
Jim McDaniels, all of us were on the same thing.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
Really yeah, interesting, crazy, all right, quick hitters. First thing
to come to mind, Let us know your top five
players of all time?
Speaker 3 (56:25):
My top five players of all time, I don't know
in this order, but I'm just okay. Kareem Michael Jordan, Lebron,
James Cottage. I hate to squeeze his magic out. Yeah,
I gotta go with my homeboy. Yeah magic.
Speaker 2 (56:45):
So Kareem Jordan's Bron Magic. And who's the fifth?
Speaker 3 (56:52):
Because I love him now, Kobe, thank you, because I
love him a lot. And he was the guy who
who called me and said come to visit with me
and sit with me, and he and he said, you know,
I think I want to do this movie on you.
And the next year he was.
Speaker 1 (57:13):
He had the ultimate respect for everybody that.
Speaker 4 (57:15):
Came oh yeah yeah students.
Speaker 5 (57:17):
You see him saying with Bill Russell four yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (57:22):
And he respected me for what I did for him
in the sense that he said, I wouldn't have been
able to come out.
Speaker 2 (57:29):
Of high school, yes without you, without.
Speaker 3 (57:31):
You, So I'm gonna show you big respect.
Speaker 1 (57:33):
Most intimidating player that you played against.
Speaker 3 (57:36):
The Dipper, Big Chamber, yeah, big incredible. Can tell you
one little story about when they was winning the sixty
two seventy two games in a row.
Speaker 4 (57:45):
I was out there having a ball.
Speaker 3 (57:47):
I was doing like I had forty and it was
like fifteen before the fourth quarter was in it. You know,
in the fourth quarter, he sick Bell Bridges on me.
He said, knock him out. Bill Bridges was this big
old dude about six eight, two hundred and seventy five pounds.
(58:07):
All I could see is like a cartoon, big old fisher.
He knocked me out. Shit, because we ain't messing up
this seventy two.
Speaker 4 (58:16):
We ain't messing up this.
Speaker 2 (58:17):
You was on your way to dropping fifty and beating
the winning streak and they picked you out.
Speaker 3 (58:21):
Took me out. So your boy from UCLA ward hazard,
I'll save it. He jumps over over Bill bridges back
and slid into the The floor had these twenty four
second clocks on the floor at that time. This big
old piece of iron knocked him out. So we both
woke up in there. And the next year the league said,
(58:46):
we're putting the train. They' putting the clock up on
so these players keep running into it.
Speaker 2 (58:52):
MJ, Kobe Lebron, rank them in your opinion.
Speaker 4 (58:54):
I'm thinking him, J Lebron, I'm taking. I'm taking.
Speaker 3 (59:00):
I gotta go to Lebron, m J and Kobe childhood rush,
who's your child? Crush my hand?
Speaker 4 (59:09):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Can I do?
Speaker 3 (59:13):
What did I do?
Speaker 2 (59:14):
You want?
Speaker 1 (59:17):
Knocking yourself down there?
Speaker 2 (59:19):
The first time we had the funny, funniest teammate. You
never had crazy Bro.
Speaker 3 (59:28):
The funniest teammate is uh Earl Monroe. And Earl Monroe
had some good ones. I mean he was just one liners,
one liners, and and I would always I would always
because because Walt Frazer was like, mister, you know corporate,
YA can't be acting. It's stupid and Phil Jackson is like,
(59:51):
these guys man messing.
Speaker 4 (59:54):
Up what we're doing.
Speaker 3 (59:54):
We corporate guys with the knicks, you know.
Speaker 5 (59:57):
So it's like, yeah, if you can see one guest
on our show, who would it be?
Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
But you have to help us get your answer on
the show.
Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
I think you should do walk Trazer, I mean mortem. Yeah,
he's got a documentary that's coming out. We'll be honest,
and there's HBO documentary and he is hit.
Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Him up telling him we're ready. I hit real quick
before we got here because we got Ralph behind you.
Real quick. You guys are talking off camera.
Speaker 4 (01:00:23):
You are raped, that's my boy, real quick.
Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
Real quick, before we get you out of here. You
and Stack were talking about some stuff with the malice
in the palace, just real quick. It us the breakdown
because it was what were y'all talking about?
Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
Well, No, I was living in Detroit at the time,
and I was you know, Sally and all of us around,
and my dad, Will Robinson was This was the scout
as well as its sistant to the general manager, and
they were like, everybody was worried. Man, I'm Indiana Pacers, It's.
Speaker 4 (01:00:57):
Going to be a problem for us.
Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
And so the air was in the it was in
the air. We gotta do something because they're pretty arrogant
and cocky, So we can start a fight or something
with those guys, take them out.
Speaker 4 (01:01:11):
This is the old school basketball.
Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
That was the plan, and it worked. It worked well.
It worked. It worked it because it went into the stands.
Speaker 5 (01:01:19):
And when energy went to the stands, so they felt like, well,
it was busting the ass, so like we're gonna started,
and that's when the beer came.
Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
That's when the energy was in the air.
Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
It was all in there. You know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
There exactly right. Well, Spence, we appreciate you. If there's
any way we can help with the project.
Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
When you do the project.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Yeah, yeah, you want to come back down to say
all of us about itself. Yeah, I told you, I
told you long, I said, I remember what you remember.
Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
You guys got to be on this product.
Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
We appreciate you, man, thank you for all you did
on and off the court in your journey. Looking forward
to sitting down with you again, man, appreciate your time
to wrap.
Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
What We've definitely got to talk.
Speaker 4 (01:01:59):
Yeah, I talk and again fuck rap.
Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
Mm hm.
Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
Mm hm.
Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
M hm
Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
Mm hmmm.
Arizona.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
We got something special for y'all. October third, Ela River
Casino in Phoenix. Straight Game Times All the Smoke Live Show.
Doors open at six thirty, show start to seven thirty.
Tickets on sale through Ticketmaster. Just google Straight Game All
the Smoke Live Show or check the link in my bio.
Catch me, Stack Bib and my dog, e House and
(00:22):
special guests. Make sure you guys pick up a ticket
and meet us there. Welcome back to All the Smoke
Pump Gala twenty twenty five. Yield a great first guest
and we have a legend. This probably this dude is
one of our biggest fans, one of our loudest supporters.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Because we kind of kind of like we kind of similar.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, we was all off the check very off. One
of the real Ojes is always showed love and support.
Five time NBA All Star, four time All NBA, thirteen
year pro. Welcome to the show, Spencer Heywood, Thank.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
You, sir, Yeah, OJ thank you, thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Retired players of your what do you guys think about
just the media and how freely players can not only speak,
how freely they can move, the type of money they
can get, the ability to come in the NBA at
a certain time. What are your guys' thoughts and what
(01:18):
are your thoughts in particular on that.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Well, my thoughts on it is I am the guy
who sued the NBA, the n C two A, and
the Denver Rockets of the ABA all the way to
the Supreme Court so that they could get this ruling
so that you guys can make the kind of money
(01:39):
so you could come into the league when you were qualified,
rather than sitting in a college for four years making
university rich.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
So, yeah, I was that.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I was Jack's right.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I mean obviously amazing, And I really want to kind
of dig into that because I thing people know you
understand your significance not only in your time your ability
to play the game, but what you were doing off
the court. You were really one of the first You
were really one of the pillars that really helped fight
against a system that wasn't ready to see that and
(02:17):
you won. Yeah, what kind of shit did you go
through though? Outside of that while you.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Were doing that?
Speaker 4 (02:22):
While I was doing it.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
The first round of the of the case is when
I sued the NBA for the rights to play because
I had one more year left in college on my
eligibility and the NBA said, no, you can't come in
until the fourth year. I said, I just finished the
(02:45):
ABA where I was the Rookie of the Year, MVP
of the league, MVP of the All Star Game, and
I averaged thirty and twenty at nineteen. So it was
only two players whoever did that in backpro basketball, this
myself and Will Chamblain. But Will was a little bit
(03:07):
older and I was nineteen turning twenty.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
So it was this phenom. But back up a second.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
They were all cool with it when Kareem and other
guys backed out of the sixty eight Olympics and they said, well,
we got an eighteen year old down here at this
junior college that could come in and play in the
Olympics and save us in the Olympics.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
So I went and said, yeah, I'll save you.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Set a record that lasted for forty four years in
the Olympics. The most point points and most rebounds and
the most blocks.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
The mellow got the point who got the points.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
Kevin, Yeah he got it.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
And who got the rebound and blocks still stand.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
No, I think David Robertson at the rebound. At the
rebound then Charles Barkley finished second to me in field
goal percentage.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
A long time. Well, so back up one second. So
you said you were Were you playing in the ABA
while you're still in college?
Speaker 4 (04:05):
No, no, no, no. I left college.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
And that was a big, a big commotion because all
of a sudden, the ABA was allowing me to come
and play. And Hannah Storm's father, Mike Storm, who was
the public relations person for the ABA, when the university says, well,
(04:27):
he's violating and breaking all the rules, we're gonna like
sue the ABA. We're gonna shut him down. Blah blah blah.
He got up at the press conference and said, what
we're doing here is we are allowing Haywood to play
because he's in dire need. It's called a hardship rule
(04:48):
because his mother and his family was still picking cotton
in Silver City, Mississippi, for two dollars a day. And
he said, we're gonna give him reparation. And so the
whole media just shut down like, oh God, so we're
gonna let him play. And so that's how I ended
up playing in the ABA. I was a test case.
(05:11):
And right after that test case, we had Julius Irv
and George gurb and all the guys.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
So you were the initial you opened the door to
that door to that yes, speak at the time, although
the actually I don't you want to call the NBA
the destination back then, because I don't know. But the
ABA was just as good, if not better than the
NBA if I'm not.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, because we had the young players, we had the
young energy, we had, we had style. They were wearing
blue and gray. We were like pink purples, yeah, froze
and flash yeah. So it was a different kind of game.
And then we would open up because we were playing
and open floor games where they would walk walking up
the floor, boom boom and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
There any truth to you dodging golf balls to get.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Well in Mississippi?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
So break that down because I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Well, what happened. Bel What happened was there was the
assassination of John F. Kennedy. And when we wasn't working
in the cotton fields, you know, we would work at
the golf course as caddies. And so these yahoos said,
they ag gone it, boys, we're going to have some
(06:20):
fun today. So they lined up all of us and
the young kids out on the golf this time, I
was twelve and these are grown man.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
He's a grown man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
And so my younger brother Floyd and his friend Buddy,
and so we were all allowed in the line of
ducking the balls. And then when the ball came and
it was driving, it was afo driving range. So they
would drive at us and we would rolling and the
ball would hit you in the back. You roll over
with it. My friend Buddy didn't. He got clocked in
his head, in his head and he was never right
(06:51):
going on. But that was part of the putting us
in place, because we were like happy that FK had
won the election. So we were like walking around the
golf course like, you know, got a chance, We got
a chance here. I won't have to be in this
cotton field all of my life, you know. And when
(07:12):
that happened, they showed us, you know what kind of
chance you got. So it was just the cruelty of
the South and of the world at that time, So
we had to go with the flow.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
You were also around during the Matill stuff. And how
old were you at that time.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
At mattil It was fifty nineteen fifty five, so I
was six and seven.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Do you remember it vividly?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
And all down in Mississippi it was like and he
was maybe sixty miles from where I was from all
through Mississippi, it was like, my god, it was a
chill throughout this throughout the South. Would a child he
had to do that to a child? But I mean,
I live in a city, so I've seen all of
(08:01):
that and experienced all of that. When people would come
down south from the North and they didn't know the
rules there, and these farmers and other people there would say,
teach you a lesson, and that's what they would do.
And that's how I got out of Mississippi. I was
(08:23):
working at the country club and I was playing ball,
playing really good basketball at that time at fourteen, and
they said I was like yelling at the people at
the country club. So they put me in jail for
one night. And my mother said, I got to get
you out of here. So and I could not leave
(08:45):
from Silver City because you know, that's the farm country.
So you had to go to another city. So we
went to Balizonia and caught a bus, got up to Chicago.
And at that time I thought my brothers was rich
because they used to come down south, you know, from
with a roll of fools roll you know.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
But I was a.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Fools because I was a kidding, so I thought they
were rich.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
So I said, oh, man, I'm hanging out with my brothers. Man,
this is some This is money boys here. So money boys.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
And so the money boys said, well, man, you know
that car we was driving was rented. I was a crush.
I said, well, am I going to have this bedroom
on this on this first floor of this townhouse that's
not ours. We only got the fourth floor. You sleeping
on the floor. So I was sleeping on the floor.
(09:41):
And they would like just walk around with those green
jelly looking suits, you know, and those white looking those
Staceys shoes with the stitches. He was sitting around on Friday,
polishing up the stitches on those staceys. I was like,
if I could get out of here, because they was
I was going to go to Crane Tech in Chicago,
(10:02):
and they were telling me, boy, we're gonna make some
money out of you this year.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
I was like, please let me get out.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
And so finally my brother came over from the for
he was going to the Bowling Green State University. He
played ball with me and worked with worked with me
out on the playground, and said, you got to get
out of here. You're a great player, you just got
to get away from these boys, your brothers. So the
first thing I did was before we left. My brother
(10:33):
Andrew had been bullying me for all my life. So
I said, I got to get this brother, I gotta
get this. So I stole him and then we would
we duked it out. Yeah, I beefed on him. So
(10:55):
on top of that, he had on his jelly looking
suit with half a pint in his pick pocket. So
I took a rock and hit that paint bamn and
that whiskey his leg and I said goodbye.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
To Detroit.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
He busted his nose fuses.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Drink up word he most drink.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
That was the case.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Drank now messing with that man. This was brown whiskey.
This is not like you know. Come on.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
It was the first draw crown water still in the
purple bag.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
That was before the purple bag.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I think it was gold.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
It was gold.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
The first bag was gold. They went to purple.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I don't even think they had gold bags.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
No, no, no, no, no, the first crown.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
But he got it off the shelf. He was probably
had some make believe crime. Yeah. It was like everything
that they had was like Baptist brew fake out. And
then my brother came in and he took me down
to Bowling Green State University, and I was just playing
with all of the greats down there, Howard Kolemis, Nate Thurman,
(12:04):
all of those guys. And they said, man, you need
to go to Detroit and you get a good coach
to adopt you, and you'll be all right. So I
went to Detroit to play in this big tournament that
called krunk Box fifteen fifteen. Yeah. So I had no
place to stay, nothing, so they put me in this tournament.
(12:26):
I played against George Trapp, all of the high school
phenoms in Detroit. Man, I had been running through cotton
fields all my life. I played. I was looking at
these guys like they were tired. I was like, oh good.
So I ran through those guys and then they said, well,
oh he's not that good. Let him play against Kazie
(12:48):
Russell and all of the college boys. Kazie Russell, Bill
Buttons and all of those guys. So I played against
them that hell my own I had like seventeen ten
and then said, okay, one last shot put him on
the court with the pros, and Dave Bing said, I
got him on my team. So I went out and
played again. This is three games in that that day.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
At years old.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Yeah, yeah, I was out of the cotton field.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
This is.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
How did the game go with the pros.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
The pros?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
I killed the pros. Yeah, And I was running and
I was like, can I get a Can I please
get a Fago soda pop? They were like, you can
have what you want.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
You went water belly won everything.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
So I was I was.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Enjoyed, and so Will Robinson walked up on me and said,
I want you to come to Persian High School. In
order for that to happen, we're gonna have to adopt you.
Because a white coach, black coach, first black coach to
coach n C to a division one, Will Robinson and
so he adopted me. And I remember the first day
(13:57):
of practice. I walked into the gym and I'm shooting
long shots because I'm down south. You know we shoot
long ball. So he said, hold it practice. He said, boys,
we've been playing like mules. We got us a goddamn
(14:18):
horse and we're gonna ride this some bitch all the
way to the state championship. So the Detroit schools hadn't
been to the state championship in thirty five years because
once we got out of the city, the fix was in,
Like it was with you guys that were at y'all
played the Malice in the Palace, so the fix was in.
(14:41):
So we didn't get up, but we got there and
we want it all and and that was a beautiful night.
Man win it all the first time and everything. And
then all of a sudden, I decided, well, I want
my mama to see me play. So I signed with
the University of Tennessee out of high school, not knowing
(15:01):
that I was the first black in the Southeast Eastern Conference.
I just want my mom to see me play because
she didn't see me play in high school. So I
get down and get off upset. I just lost to
bellby Joel, Billy, Bobbie, Joel and all those guys from
Texas Western, the first black team to win. I'm supposed
(15:24):
to get the first black. So that's when the argument
took place. But the University of Tennessee and then Willis says,
I got a place for you, perfect. I want you
to go to this school called Trinidad State Junior College
in Colorado on the border of Colorado and New Mexico.
But you're gonna love it. It's very close to Denver,
(15:45):
very close to Albuquerque, four hundred and fifty miles from Albrikirque,
three hundred and sixty miles from Denver. I didn't try
to get you know, get there. So that's how I
ended up on the Olympic team because I was the
MVP of the junior college.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
I was the best player there were.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
They still training in Colorado at the time, the Olympic team.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
No, no, we were like we were playing and we
had the trials in Albuquerque. So Jerry Tarkanian, he is
like the big dude, you know what I mean, you
know unf but he wasn't at UNLV at the time.
He was at some junior college. He put up our
team together and we came down to Albuquerque to play
(16:29):
against Pete Marybridge.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
All the greats were there.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
In the gym man our junior college team ran over everybody.
Oh really, I mean these people were like, where are
these people coming from? Who are these people? And so
Hank Iver came over to John McLendon who was the
assistant coach for the Olympic team in nineteen sixty eight
(16:55):
and sixty eight, we had had some big problems because
that was the year when the revolution was going on
in America. Kareem decided to boycott. Alvin Hayes and west
Ansell signed a pro contract because you had to be
a amateur. My Bob Lanier and other players decided they
(17:19):
didn't want to come to the trials, so they were
like stranded. And I was like, I'm the guy that's
going to do this. And they were like, what are
you talking about. You're too young. And I was like, yeah,
I guess I'm going to get this gear and go
back to Detroit and sell my boys. Hey man, I
tried out for the Olympic team. And so we played
and kept playing this stuff, and they started at the
(17:43):
end of it, they said, let's get our team together.
Who were going to pick on the Olympic team. They
had told me that I was too young. I'm a freshman,
so I was just there, let me get my gear,
and Hank Iver and John mclenny said, well, first player,
pick Spencer Haywood out. I don't have a passport, and
(18:10):
so they then they start cutting Pete Maverage, Wow, Calvin Murphy.
They were cutting players like I was like, whoa what
kind of player team are we gonna have? And plus
I don't In the back of my mind, everyone was
supposed to bring their passports and I didn't have one.
So I was in my mind like, they're gonna cut
(18:32):
me again because I don't have a passport. So they says, well,
we got to solve that problem. Son, Let's call your mother.
My mother don't have no phone backwards in Mississippi. So
he ended up getting her to come to the grocery
store and she picked up the phone and said, yes,
I got this passport right here. I got this birth certificate.
(18:52):
You can get this passport. It's right here on.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
The John twenty one in my bible. They said.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
It says, well, you gotta have to send that bible
up here so we can take a picture and move
it down. She says, hey, baby, baby, baby, this Bible
been with me since I was four years old. It's
not leaving. So we had to fly Mississippi take a picture,
and they created the burst, I mean the birth certificate.
(19:21):
And I got my passport and I was off to Russia.
I said, man, my big trip.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Vego was back then.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Huh you said, Fago Fago. It was a big Pops
soda Pops center there.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
So Fago was soda back then.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeah, back in Detroit, that was That's the way it
was made.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
I'm just saying, you know, I just got hit the
Fago by like ten years ago.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Now.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
I used to sit at Will's house looking at it like, wow,
I just want to get me out. I just want
to get a root beer and I want to get
a fag. Got some good flavors, good flavors. Yeah, you
know what I'm talking about. So I was that was
my journey, and then until I moved over with a
(20:05):
family named James and Ida Bell. But I was down
there with all the lawyers and the doctors in Detroit
and stuff. But back to this this trip to Russia.
So we get to Russia and we were scrimmaging against
the Russians and they were like, you black people being
cheated in America. You come live with us. And we said, well,
(20:26):
Charlie Scott and Jojo White and we were like all white.
So we were like, can we order pizza? What's a pizza?
We said this, you can't order pizza here.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
What was that experience like though, I mean the Olympics
year year with eighteen nineteen.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Yeah, nineteen, what was that like? Oh gosh, that was
when we got back. Before we got back to America,
we stopped and putting scrimmaged against the Knicks and Willis
reed and all of the wal Frasian all of them
were saying, man, you guys got a good squad. Y'all
might get a gold medal or medal in the Olympics,
(21:06):
you know. And then we went from there to play
against Oscar in the Cincinnati Royals, and Oscar pulled me
aside and said, you're gonna win this bitch, and that
just blew my My mind was like, let so then
we get to Mexico City. They had the students had
(21:27):
rioted in Mexico City, so there's blood and everything on
the streets, so us wiping up the blood and stuff.
But we were like, man. And at the same time,
the Olympic Committee had met with John Carlos and Tommy Smith,
and they had met with Jackie Robinson, and earlier that
summer they met with Martin Luther King and then just
(21:50):
before then he was he was murdered Kennedy was murdered,
not JF. But Robert F. Kennedy was murdered. And here
we were, were in Mexico City, and this big old
dude kept looking at me, and I'm looking at him.
I'm like, why are you looking at me?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Brother?
Speaker 3 (22:08):
He said, Man, I got an eating partner. I was like,
what are you talking about? I want somebody to go
with me to the commissary. We're gonna eat this motherfucker
out of a house and home. George Foreman, Oh, big George.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
Big George.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
So so so we got working and playing and stuff,
and and Tommy Smith and John Carlos was like the
leader of the whole Olympic, the Olympic village, because yeah,
wasn't like when you guys play, y'all have like condos
and shit. We were standing in the dorms and so
we all just hung out and we were learning. I
(22:45):
was learning so much from those guys about the revolution,
about everything, because hey, I'm like two years but three
years out of Mississippi, out of the cotton field backwood.
So uh, one night we were like questioning whether we're
going to boycott show something some kind of movement with
(23:08):
the Olympic team with the Olympic team, the black players
and we had a lot of white players as well.
Wanted to show that we was in solidarity with what
was going on in America because we were at the
riots in Detroit, we had the riots in California, we
had them in Newark, New Jersey. It was just chaos
(23:30):
and everybody was like them Toms who went them? Uncle
Tom's down there playing in the sixthty eight Olympics. Why
don't you do like Kareem? And it was like the
whole atmosphere. Yeah, well John was there.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
He was real what I'm saying, He wasn't budget situation.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Like I mean when they when when they raised their
fist on the podium.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
They raised their fists on the podium, they put on
and they put the black gloves on, and we were like,
oh my god, you mean they did it because the
head of the Olympics with Avery Brandage. Avery Brandage was
a friend in the close associate with Hitler. Wow, so
(24:16):
that we knew there was going to be some trouble here.
So Charlie Scott and Jojo Man, we gotta be cool.
You don't do nothing, don't say nothing. So I was like,
I'm not gonna say anything. I don't like John and
Tommy anyway, right now, I was just joking.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
But you know, so when.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
They did that, they took their passports, walked them through us,
had all of us on the Olympic team, and let
us look walk them through their Man, that hurt me
so bad.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
Because they did.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
They had They kept us all organized at the Olympics,
they kept us strong, they kept us in faith. They
were the leaders. And then to walk them through us
and then get out of here, get out of here.
Kicked them out of the Olympics, the village and they
had to go back home where people were like throwing things.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah, you not understanding the magnitude at the.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Time, we no, I didn't care, and so.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Man, and then all of a sudden we had to
play the final game. And with all of that stuff
going on, I'm just choking because I'm the star. They said, oh,
were close to winning. Howard Cosell, what do you think, fella,
you're gonna be able to go back to Detroit? Black
folks going to kill you. So you could see me playing,
(25:36):
I make a layup and run straight into the locker room,
threw up all over the place.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Come right back.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
I run back on the floor and we won their
gold and they announced that I was the MVP. And
I was standing there, you know, like three years ago,
I'm in the cotton field, not even having life itself,
and now I'm an American hero with the gold medal.
(26:05):
I just broke down and start crying. My legs got
weak and I was falling down and Jojo, standing like
a man, woke you up.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
He pulled me up and stand.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Like a man. Bill hoskinting them guys stand up now,
this is your time. So I was like wow. So
that was beautiful. And then the big deal. Howard Cosette
was like, what are you gonna do when you go
back to Detroit? They hate you for what you've done.
I was like, how could they hate me? So we're
thinking Will Robinson I was there. We're flying into Detroit.
(26:38):
We're thinking, man, these brothers are gonna kill us.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Man.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
So we flew into Detroit. We landed, it was like
four thousand black and white were there celebrating, celebrating us man,
And I was like, wow, that's beautiful. America is America
is something else man too?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
How nice was how nice was Pete?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Oh God? Pete was magic Johnson, Nate Archibald, he was
that combination. He he was, he was something special.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
How tall was he? Sixty three six.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Three sixty four? But his handle was like, uh, look
did you play with he had? He had some Pete
in him too.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
White Jay Will j Will Yeah, white yeah, white chocolate.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Chocolate had some Pete in him. And I always told
him when we was in Mexico City, they were celebrating
my fifty return and I was like, you.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Got yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Pete and I played together when I was with the
New Orleans Jazz with Elgin Baylor the coach. Oh wow yeah.
And then they moved us to to Utah and I
was like, oh culture shock hated it, but I didn't
got it. I didn't go because I was married to
Emon at the time, and she was like, I can't go.
(28:10):
I've been to New Orleans. I can't go to you.
I need to work, I need to do things.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
But hold on, you're just casually saying you're married to
one of the biggest supermodels of all time. Let's talk
about that, Spence. Yes, because John was telling us some
ship before you came in here, like how did you
bag E? Mon? Man.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
She saw me, she said, Oh, I want him so bad.
No she didn't.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
I'm about to believe it.
Speaker 5 (28:38):
Yeah, no, no, he's stupid, bro.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
So we were in New York and I was with
the next she had just came over from East Africa,
from Somali.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
How do you don't mind me asking him?
Speaker 3 (28:57):
What am I with? Jack? Yeah? No, I'm seventy six.
So we were having dinner and it was like the
sports meets the fashion industry, and so at that time
(29:19):
I was reading the Koran and I was and she
was from a Muslim country, and so we started talking
about the profit and different things and just talking. And
then everybody at the table said, oh boy, them two together.
And so that's how we hooked up to start hanging,
and and the next thing you know, we were we
(29:40):
spent all of our time because I had just got
to the Knicks from Seattle, from the Sonics, so I
didn't know anybody but Earl and Clyde and Phil Jackson,
you know those guys. But Pheel and want to hang
because he was smoking a lot.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
We officially took your shot.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Huh did you take you become yes?
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Yes, yes, yes?
Speaker 1 (30:03):
To greet each other. It's only right that we greet each.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Other, right, yes, sir. So then we hung out and
we just started hanging with each other, just spending time.
And my other good friend in that group was BJ
Beverly Johnson. Yeah girls, so them girls, no, no, no,
So what happened was I didn't know because I had
(30:27):
to switch over to the fashion industry because I didn't
New York was like scattered, players didn't get together like that.
So I just hung out with the fashion world bad
as women.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
And you know what I'm saying, I don't need I
don't need nobody.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
We're listening to jazz, doing everything, enjoying our life.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
What is that kind of Obviously media isn't what it
is today, but I mean, you're hanging with two of
the biggest supermodels in the world. You're one of the
biggest basketball players in the world. What's the attention like
around you? Is it cameras, is it talk? What is
it like?
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Yeah, it was pretty aggressive because the fact that.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
Yeah, I was mister Nick.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
That's a huge crossover, and then she was the world
famous model just came here from Somalia, so it was
really something.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
And we got on Good Morning America.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
And we was talking about our marriage, and we were
just emone had just we had just I had just
got a notice from the NBA because I did a photo.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
With Eman.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
I was just holding my hand over her breast and
her stomach was out with my baby inside. So the
league was like, now, wait a minute, we're not that progressive.
Don't let us don't let us catch you doing that
kind of stuff anymore. So I got my cue. It
wasn't nothing exotic, but it was exotic. It was shot
(31:52):
by Michael ryan Hard, a very famous photographer. So and
we got on Good Morning America. So we were just
talking like, man, we're gonna bring uh, We're gonna bring
culture to the blacks in America and and we're gonna
take technology to the Africans in Africa. Somebody there, maybe
(32:15):
the CIA or someone was like, whoa wait a minute,
to slow your hands down here, bro, you may be crazy,
but you ain't no food.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
So we saw to slowed down and then whenever.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
Wherever you want, just don't help us get the nigga
smart watch out.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
I'm just telling you do what you want, You do
what you want, but.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
You watch out now.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
So then when I when I got traded, uh, before
I I got traded. When I was wouldn't report to Utah.
So we got to l A and I was like,
oh my god, I'm with my boy because he was
with me when I took my sho how to Kareem
art Hazard. All these people were here, you know U
(33:00):
c l A people.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
So yeah, so I slipped.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Into another group and Emon was just constantly begging me,
please don't go with these people. And I was like, man,
I'm prior, and what the fucking.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Yeah, but he was having coke, came with some other stuff.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
He came with some other stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
So I slipped. Man, I slipped badly. And uh, while
playing with the Lakers, I'll tell you how stupid it was.
I would come to practice and we're watching the films
and Magic would look at me and say, what, man,
you got to get your hands together. You're losing your hands. Man.
(33:51):
They knew what was going on, but I was like,
I was in denial of about the cocuson, about freebas
and so I had answers for everything. I had some
fucking as. At this point, I was twenty eight, twenty nine,
right in your prime, yeah, prime.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Shit.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
I came to averaging twenty four points and twelve rebounds.
Speaker 5 (34:15):
A lot of people were saying to me because drugs
was big, not just what you was doing, but drugs
was big and leaked here.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Oh it's everybody was on.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
It had white because it's like a fraternity, you know,
had just wiped through us.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Man.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
I came in there with, like I said, twenty four
and twelve. By mid season, I was down to seventeen
and seven. By the end of the season, I was
at seven and five, twenty pounds lighter basically. And so
we would have film session and Magic is like, what
(34:51):
we need your baby, We need you. And I was like,
I got you, brother, I got you. And he said
like look at this film here. You see I dropped
that pass on you like this it's missing your hand,
like you drop it. I was like, hold it, it's
not me, it's you Magic. You see that look running back,
(35:15):
running back, running back, pat pat riding running back.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
See all that spending he's got on that ball.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah, I'm in denial. I mean you know, so I'm like, okay,
so Korean step up, okay now would now it's enough
of this ship. I said, Okay, what's going on, big fella?
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Brother?
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Man?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
What we're doing what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Cap.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
So Cap says, you have fallen off so far in
the rebounds. We can't make it without you getting the rebounds.
I said, Cap, let's look at the tape again. So
Camp looks at the tape and I said, to see
your skyhook is coming off.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
Way.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
I'm going to the side. Well, I normally on this side.
So they were like just sitting there like, oh God,
this would.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
Hopeless, this is not this is not my guy.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
I was in deep man, and so one day I
was on my way to practice. I had had a
real crazy night. We were in the playoffs for the finals.
I had I gotta have one more shot. I gotta
have one more hit.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
So I.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Stayed up and just you know, I was piping man
ship free base Man. What I want to snort for
when I got free base right to the money. So
I'm driving along, I get up on the I get
(36:56):
up to the thing and I'm like, I mean, all
of a sudden, I all asleep and I'm hearing cars banging,
people banging on my door. I'm like, hey, what the
are y'all doing?
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Hitting my rolls roars like this.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
So I go to practice. Yeah, So then I run
to practice and I decided, well, I think I can
run it out of me before this practice start.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
I ran.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
I ran around the tractors, running and all of us.
So I then I get to the practice and I'm
so freaking tired and so fucked up?
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Did I fall asleep? Here's Jamal, Get up, Get up,
Get up, get up.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
I'm like, where I am?
Speaker 2 (37:34):
I ship We're in the finals, but you're in fairy
tale land.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
I'm really good.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
So that's when the team decided, well it's best that
you stay home for a while. And I'm like, but
we only got two more games, three more games. And
that was my my journey with that, and so from that,
(38:03):
From that, Emon was like, well, I know what you
can do. You know they told me, you know you
need to get out out of wet places and wet faces.
And I said, well, I'll go back to New York
with the Knicks and I'll go back to Utah. I
can be clean in Utah. And everybody had put the
word out and David Stern had said, man, I need
(38:24):
you to take the fall for this leg. Really, So
I went to I went to Italy, and then I
came back to Washington and had a grand season, was
killing them, and then Eman was in an automobile accident.
I had been away from my family and stuff so
(38:46):
long that I just said I got a call the
quits because I had her sister, her brother, and Nadia
was with us all the time. So you know, you
bring an African family with you got a family out
your family. So I left the game and then in
mine over there just bugging me still about going to
(39:08):
see a psychologist or a.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Psychologist, and I was like that shit is for models.
So I went in.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I went in and started going to see one, and
then I loved it. I mean, I was able to
He was talking to me about PTSD, about what I
went through with the trial and all of that stuff.
So I was like, oh, Ship, this is pretty cool.
So from that, I've now been in forty two years.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Graduations and how long did it take you to kick
the habit all in from when you started to when
you look.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Three years?
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Three years?
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yeah, and kind of lost side of everything.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
I mean, I just I mean, once I got back
and once she healed up, I and my sponsor was saying,
you know, you can't live in wet places, and wet faces,
So I had.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
To step away because we're still dirty at that time
to fall, the league was still.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
Dirty, dirty.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
So I said, well, let me just move to Detroit.
And Iman was cool enough to say, we had a daughter.
You take the daughter while I finished my modeling, and
then we'll work joint custody and custody back and forth.
We didn't have to go through no lawyers or nothing.
We just know what we had to do.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
So so you retired early thirty two, thirty.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
Three, thirty two, and at my peak, I'm ready, But
it was more important for you than that family. Yeah,
because I mean, and then even they don't even know
the language here, so I had to take.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
Care of that.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
As you guys. A relationship today today perfect amazing.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
It's not perfect, but it's all cool because we talk
a lot.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Nothing perfect.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
No, we talk a lot and some of our daughters,
my oldest daughter.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
And two daughters with her.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
I have one daughter, one daughter, Zoe Laker, and I
have a granddaughter and my other daughters. I have four daughters, girls,
all girl. I got six, okay, so you know what
I'm talking about. So they're like always like, why y'all,
why are y'all talking when we was at the Knicks
(41:24):
games this year for the playoffs, Walt Trasi and Earl
and all, I'm like, what, y'all, what you're gonna do?
Speaker 1 (41:30):
What?
Speaker 3 (41:31):
I'm like, Man, I can't bring that to this game,
y'all would blow us up. So it's we're fun. Were
having fun with each other because she lost her husband,
David boy. I lost my wife three years ago, Linda.
And so my daughter that used to go with me
to see my psychiatrists, she's a psychologist Shakira. Wow. Yeah,
(41:57):
that's her brand. She's doing real well. My other daughter
Isis y'all probably know Isis. She's over at Adidas doing
real well up in Portland. Uh. My next daughter is
a professor at Lincoln University and zue Lak and my
oldest daughter she works with her mother, Ima Inc. And
all of that stuff. So life is pretty good with me.
(42:20):
And I've been I've been cleaning sober, you know, for
the forty two years. And of course, I you know,
I wouldn't. I wouldn't be fitted to say that that
clean and sober, but I do. No, of course, I'm
just saying no.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
We knew that already, Like you knew that already.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
That's that's a different level.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
Okay, then I'm just saying what was.
Speaker 5 (42:44):
Like breathing, especially campus these days, everybody needed My mom
was was punish.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Me all kind of student in high school. Now she
called me, where's that did you? So I get I
get it.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
But what Matt and I was talking about for the
retired players, we have like over three thousand players, and
we was like just talking about, you know, things, creams for.
Speaker 4 (43:08):
Your knees and all of these ready.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
But everybody was like, soul you you were Madden Jack
and you guys, I'm.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Like ahead of the curve. You was just ahead of
the curve.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Yeah, I know how accurate was Winning time?
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Winning Time was very accurate with me.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Wood Harris, he's one of my favorite actors, by.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
The way, that's my guy.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
And you, yeah, cooked me up real nice.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
Because I was.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Nervous that, I mean, what is he gonna do it?
They're gonna have me, uh, you know, just way off
the rockers. So when I talked to Wood after you
had spoken with him, and then I said, go for it, brother,
don't play around with this. And I talk with Rodney Burns,
who's the writer, and I was like, you know, let
it go. We need to tell young player is we
(44:00):
need to show them that the life is wasn't It's
not that playover thing, you know. It's a lot. It's
a lot involved here, and so how you can fall,
how you can pick yourself up, how you can move on.
And so that's what they did with me. And now
I have a deal with Lionsgate to do the whole
Spencer story.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Congratulations.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
Yeah, and so now I'm just circling back because I'm
thinking we got Mario van Peeples doing the directory and
we got Common.
Speaker 5 (44:33):
Really, you know, it's just seen him yesterday, Yes, my
god at the risk yesterday.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
That's my godson. Can I tell you all the story
about how you almost became Maclamore?
Speaker 4 (44:47):
M hm, you know, the rapper from the Settle.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
And so his father played with me in Denver.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Common's father comments from.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
He played with me in the ab and his mother
was and so she she was still and but she
was like taking care of and I was this young
player that was in the league and everybody was taking
a shot at me, you know. So Lonney was my
guy that like they if they touch you, I'm gonna
I'm boring. He's from Chicago disable High School. So it's
(45:21):
like you know, six for they chisel. Yeah. So uh,
they took care of me and made sure that everything
was right. And then when girls would coming around and
were like, get away, get away, he's got a career.
That's Common's mother. So we were all type this family.
And so when he was born, they asked me to
(45:42):
be his godfather. And so I get to that. I
get to Seattle after I won my case, and I'm like,
you know, having an all Pro season, I was finished
third behind Kareem and West. Uh behind Kareem and Nate
Archibald for m VP, and so I said, man, that
would be nice if I could get my boy here
(46:04):
in Seattle. So I spoke to Russ Bill Russell, he
was our coach. I said, Russ, can we give him
a tryout? And he said, yeah, get him out here.
So I didn't know what shape Loney was in. I
didn't know he was using anything. So I just said, hey, man,
come on out, and we're gonna give you a shot,
a real good shot, and you know I'm gonna I'm
gonna protect you to a degree. Solenney grabbed up his
(46:28):
family illegally, who had come and he was two years old.
So they coming to Seattle, and so he had basically
kidnapped him. So they was coming to Seattle, so they
had to get Loney and arrest him for a minute,
(46:48):
and they went back to Chicago. And so Common is
always talking this ship nowadays. You know, if that had,
if I hadn't, if that ship had worked out in Seattle,
I would have in the black Blamore and the other
guy was the name I like them, butts lot, So
(47:08):
Common would have been so mix a lot of black Macklamore.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
Can't you tell the story about the time you declined
equity with Nike? Oh boy, oh boy, break that down.
We talked to Magic and he turned down a similar deal.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
I know, but his wasn't his. He had a little
bit of time. I was in nineteen seventy two and
seventy three. Nike came out with the shoe and I said, yeah,
I would wear it. Because Phil Knight, we were all
up in Portland and Seattle, so that was a whole
another area for you know, just business and everything else.
(47:44):
So you were just like it's like hippies and shit.
So so he came and said, would you wear my shoe?
I said, yeah, of course I wear we Northwest boys
were down and so and he said, okay, I'm gonna
give you some stock in this company. First of all,
I was young too, and I'm thinking livestock. Yeah, what
(48:09):
are you talking about stock? So I get the stock,
and my boy, did I let do the negotiation. He
was like struggling, you know, having bills taking care of
So he was like convincing me, man, that shoe is
never going to work because look at what happened. Because
when I was walking running down the floor, guys would
(48:31):
come behind me and pop my shoe off.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
Like a step on your heel and step on our heel.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
That night, it didn't have the it was new running shoe.
Yeah from front free Fontaine.
Speaker 4 (48:43):
Yeah it was.
Speaker 3 (48:43):
That's kind of.
Speaker 4 (48:45):
That's so they popping off.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
So I'm like, well maybe, So I said, okay, man,
I give you the power of attorney.
Speaker 4 (48:52):
Let me just go play. I gotta, I gotta.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
I got to really focus on this game now because
this is my chance. And when I came back here
sold like sh I said, man, I got the cash
right here.
Speaker 4 (49:05):
I much hundred thousand.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
So any idea what that could have been today? Ten
percent it was.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
Up around two point seven, big.
Speaker 4 (49:15):
Years ago. You're still friends with him, yes, because we
all was making we.
Speaker 3 (49:21):
Were young man.
Speaker 4 (49:22):
The league was young gym shoes.
Speaker 3 (49:25):
We only had two shoes. We had like the two
shoes were Converse. I didn't like the Converse because it's
just so flat, and Wilt Chamberlain wore them and he
blocked me three times in one game, and so I
was like, fuck them, never wear their fucking shoes and uh,
and then we had what else? The other one was
(49:45):
pro kids, a hard bottom shoe, and then you had
Wald Fraser's shoe. But nobody wanted to compete with walk
so interesting, So that was my Nike.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Were you negotiating with phild Night directly?
Speaker 2 (49:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (50:00):
Wow, that's crazy. Well he was at that time. He
didn't have the shop, you know. Yeah, just he had
to handle him out of out of his talking and
it's like that way. So I did do the big
commercial for them. Ah, it's the original poster for Nike
because they had no other players and it's me standing,
you can only get this shoe at this location. So
(50:25):
I have that post. So I do talk to Phil.
Phil was came to me when I was inducted into
the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (50:34):
Oh my guys, can't yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Any relationship or m J stories, Michael George stories.
Speaker 4 (50:40):
Yeah, Mike.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
I'm in New York and I'm trying to figure out man,
I'm negotiating because we were like part of the players
Union too, and they were doing this uh negotiation. So
I get this call from Mike. I'm like, what the
are you calling me for? You corporate and I'm the grunt.
So Mike said, close down, Let's have some dinner, man.
(51:03):
So we you know, we had a nice dinner. We
talked a lot of shit and he kept telling me.
He kept telling all the other owners and everything that
was there. This was the first Nike guy. I wouldn't
have had my contract if he had threw his away.
And I was like, Mike, you can't do it like that.
(51:25):
But Mike was so cool.
Speaker 4 (51:28):
He was just showing some love.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
How does it? I mean again, I don't think, and
I could be right. I don't think you got the
love and respect you deserved for everything you did from
on and off the court. But when you get it
back from your peers or some legends in the game,
does that kind of help a little bit?
Speaker 4 (51:44):
It helps a lot this today. You know, I've waited
for yes because y'all my boy. Yeah, So I mean,
I'm just saying, uh.
Speaker 3 (51:56):
But you know, when you take a stand like that,
Muhammad Ali, Kurt Flood, Jackie Robinson, and myself, there's a
thing called Mount Rushmore of the people who changed the game.
And I'll get that shot to you to as well.
And so so you know when you do that. And
(52:17):
I went against the universities. Now they're gonna call me
before the Congress again coming up, coming up because of
the fact that they want to change the nil now
that black folks are getting a little paid.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
That's Trump.
Speaker 3 (52:30):
There you go. You said the word, say it again dump.
So he wants to change it. So that I'm like,
you can't do that, man, you got to be better
than this. You're the president.
Speaker 5 (52:44):
Anytime they see us getting ahead of anything, it's gonna
try to throw a monkey wrench in it.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yeah, but we're stronger than that, so we'll get through it.
So I'm going to testify, and I'm with the.
Speaker 4 (52:55):
Congression of Black Congress.
Speaker 3 (52:58):
And now I'll talk about the importance of it and
the importance of this ruling, the importance of my ruling,
because my ruling alone has helped to create that. These
are not scientific numbers, but they're my nums. Over sixty
five billion dollars for player salary from nineteen sixty from
(53:20):
nineteen seventy one. In nineteen seventy one, when I won
my case Haywood versus the NBA, we only had fourteen
teams because we didn't have a pool in which to
pour it from from young guys coming up. And they
had told the old heads in the leg that if
you let him get in here, these young guys like
(53:42):
Matt and Jack, they're gonna come in and put you
guys out of business. So they didn't support me. So
I just look at it all man is. I was
vegan basically for thirty one years until my wife passed.
Now I'm eating fishing game, I've been working out. I
pray a lot. I enjoy life. I have my my
(54:08):
four daughters I got since I don't having it sons,
I got three grandsons.
Speaker 4 (54:13):
They go for any ship. I tell them, you know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (54:18):
They like, yeah, okay, So.
Speaker 4 (54:23):
I'm enjoying life.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
You got to ensure good hands in good hands. And
then I go to the games. I watched the games
a lot. I watched the young players play, and I'm like, Wow,
these fellatherfuckers can play. They can play quick question.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
We got a little quick hitters up, but real quick.
We spoke to George Gervin last at the beginning of
this week and he said, although Magic and Bird are
credited with saving the NBA, he kind of felt like
the influx with the A B A coming into the
NBA is really what's.
Speaker 3 (54:56):
That changed the game because I told you before you know,
they was in blue and gray suits and brown suits
and they was going down. I'll tell you what happened.
My first game in Seattle or the third game in Seattle.
I ripped the ball off and palmed it and flicked
it over to Lenny Wilkins.
Speaker 4 (55:16):
Lenny Wilkins said.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
Go And I got the ball at the half court
and I just was dribbled and I said, oh shit,
I'm behind the free throw line. Maybe I'll take a dunk.
I took off and like just to show him what
it was all about, and dump bam. And they were like, he's.
Speaker 4 (55:33):
A hot dog.
Speaker 2 (55:36):
You jumped from the free throw line any game?
Speaker 3 (55:38):
Yes, yes, And they said he's a hot Dog. So
that was the new look of the and I was
the first one to come to the NBA from the ABA,
So that was the whole look. So later on that season,
everybody was looking for something exciting to happen, you know.
So and that's when Sam Shuman, the owner of the
(56:01):
Sonic set, I'm gonna get me some more of them,
so he went, he got John.
Speaker 1 (56:06):
Let me give you some more of them.
Speaker 2 (56:07):
Yeah, black boys.
Speaker 5 (56:09):
Yeah, John Brisker, a couple of them.
Speaker 3 (56:13):
Jim McDaniels, all of us were on the same thing.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
Really yeah, interesting, crazy, all right, quick hitters. First thing
to come to mind, Let us know your top five
players of all time?
Speaker 3 (56:25):
My top five players of all time, I don't know
in this order, but I'm just okay. Kareem Michael Jordan, Lebron,
James Cottage. I hate to squeeze his magic out. Yeah,
I gotta go with my homeboy. Yeah magic.
Speaker 2 (56:45):
So Kareem Jordan's Bron Magic. And who's the fifth?
Speaker 3 (56:52):
Because I love him now, Kobe, thank you, because I
love him a lot. And he was the guy who
who called me and said come to visit with me
and sit with me, and he and he said, you know,
I think I want to do this movie on you.
And the next year he was.
Speaker 1 (57:13):
He had the ultimate respect for everybody that.
Speaker 4 (57:15):
Came oh yeah yeah students.
Speaker 5 (57:17):
You see him saying with Bill Russell four yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (57:22):
And he respected me for what I did for him
in the sense that he said, I wouldn't have been
able to come out.
Speaker 2 (57:29):
Of high school, yes without you, without.
Speaker 3 (57:31):
You, So I'm gonna show you big respect.
Speaker 1 (57:33):
Most intimidating player that you played against.
Speaker 3 (57:36):
The Dipper, Big Chamber, yeah, big incredible. Can tell you
one little story about when they was winning the sixty
two seventy two games in a row.
Speaker 4 (57:45):
I was out there having a ball.
Speaker 3 (57:47):
I was doing like I had forty and it was
like fifteen before the fourth quarter was in it. You know,
in the fourth quarter, he sick Bell Bridges on me.
He said, knock him out. Bill Bridges was this big
old dude about six eight, two hundred and seventy five pounds.
(58:07):
All I could see is like a cartoon, big old fisher.
He knocked me out. Shit, because we ain't messing up
this seventy two.
Speaker 4 (58:16):
We ain't messing up this.
Speaker 2 (58:17):
You was on your way to dropping fifty and beating
the winning streak and they picked you out.
Speaker 3 (58:21):
Took me out. So your boy from UCLA ward hazard,
I'll save it. He jumps over over Bill bridges back
and slid into the The floor had these twenty four
second clocks on the floor at that time. This big
old piece of iron knocked him out. So we both
woke up in there. And the next year the league said,
(58:46):
we're putting the train. They' putting the clock up on
so these players keep running into it.
Speaker 2 (58:52):
MJ, Kobe Lebron, rank them in your opinion.
Speaker 4 (58:54):
I'm thinking him, J Lebron, I'm taking. I'm taking.
Speaker 3 (59:00):
I gotta go to Lebron, m J and Kobe childhood rush,
who's your child? Crush my hand?
Speaker 4 (59:09):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Can I do?
Speaker 3 (59:13):
What did I do?
Speaker 2 (59:14):
You want?
Speaker 1 (59:17):
Knocking yourself down there?
Speaker 2 (59:19):
The first time we had the funny, funniest teammate. You
never had crazy Bro.
Speaker 3 (59:28):
The funniest teammate is uh Earl Monroe. And Earl Monroe
had some good ones. I mean he was just one liners,
one liners, and and I would always I would always
because because Walt Frazer was like, mister, you know corporate,
YA can't be acting. It's stupid and Phil Jackson is like,
(59:51):
these guys man messing.
Speaker 4 (59:54):
Up what we're doing.
Speaker 3 (59:54):
We corporate guys with the knicks, you know.
Speaker 5 (59:57):
So it's like, yeah, if you can see one guest
on our show, who would it be?
Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
But you have to help us get your answer on
the show.
Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
I think you should do walk Trazer, I mean mortem. Yeah,
he's got a documentary that's coming out. We'll be honest,
and there's HBO documentary and he is hit.
Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Him up telling him we're ready. I hit real quick
before we got here because we got Ralph behind you.
Real quick. You guys are talking off camera.
Speaker 4 (01:00:23):
You are raped, that's my boy, real quick.
Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
Real quick, before we get you out of here. You
and Stack were talking about some stuff with the malice
in the palace, just real quick. It us the breakdown
because it was what were y'all talking about?
Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
Well, No, I was living in Detroit at the time,
and I was you know, Sally and all of us around,
and my dad, Will Robinson was This was the scout
as well as its sistant to the general manager, and
they were like, everybody was worried. Man, I'm Indiana Pacers, It's.
Speaker 4 (01:00:57):
Going to be a problem for us.
Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
And so the air was in the it was in
the air. We gotta do something because they're pretty arrogant
and cocky, So we can start a fight or something
with those guys, take them out.
Speaker 4 (01:01:11):
This is the old school basketball.
Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
That was the plan, and it worked. It worked well.
It worked. It worked it because it went into the stands.
Speaker 5 (01:01:19):
And when energy went to the stands, so they felt like, well,
it was busting the ass, so like we're gonna started,
and that's when the beer came.
Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
That's when the energy was in the air.
Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
It was all in there. You know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
There exactly right. Well, Spence, we appreciate you. If there's
any way we can help with the project.
Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
When you do the project.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Yeah, yeah, you want to come back down to say
all of us about itself. Yeah, I told you, I
told you long, I said, I remember what you remember.
Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
You guys got to be on this product.
Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
We appreciate you, man, thank you for all you did
on and off the court in your journey. Looking forward
to sitting down with you again, man, appreciate your time
to wrap.
Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
What We've definitely got to talk.
Speaker 4 (01:01:59):
Yeah, I talk and again fuck rap.
Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
Mm hm.
Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
Mm hm.
Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
M hm
Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
Mm hmmm.
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Stephen Jackson
Matt Barnes
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