The Real History of Hip-Hop & Media's AI Future With Damion 'Darizza' Young

ALL THE SMOKE Unplugged sits down with legendary radio executive Damion “Damizza” Young for a conversation that connects the real history of hip-hop to the future of media, AI, and ownership 💨 From connecting Snoop Dogg and Dr. Dre, helping Eminem, 50 Cent, and Jay-Z get heard, and witnessing Pac, Biggie, and Death Row up close, Damian shares the untold stories behind the moments that changed music forever.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to unplug. This episode is presented to you
by DraftKings. The crown is yours. Today we got an
exciting show.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Someone, I'm a huge fan of the Missa. If you've
seen him on Instagram, make sure you tap in a
wealth of knowledge. And I'm really excited to talk to
him now. I want to welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Man.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Someone I've been a big fan of probably found this
page about a year and a half and I finally
got the balls to reach out and uh holler Adam
and lo and beold.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
He hit me back and shit, we've been.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Some other way around, bro, I'm supposed to be Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Hell Instagram buddies ever since. We Welcome to the show,
Damien the Missa Young.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Appreciate you, Bro.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
Thank you, I appreciate it. Thank you for this big time. No,
this is uh, I'm playing with the big fellas now.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
No, I feel like again.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
I mean, and I think I told you this the
other day and just an era where there's just so
much negativity and disrespect and insecurity. You're just a clear
cut breath of fresh air that gives an unbiased opinion
and really educates more than anything. And again I can
sit up and just watch your reels and just feel like, damn,

(01:06):
I just took a college course, you know what I mean.
So thank you, Thank you for spending some time with
us today. I mean, you've been around a lot of
legends and and and the music industry.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Season. I think you're sa season is a better word.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Obviously, there's been a ton of movement in media over
the past few weeks, big mergers, potentially Netflix dealing with
iHeart bringing podcasts in. We were just having an off
camera conversation where we had to hop because you were
talking too much good shit, and I said, we got
to get it on camera. Talk to me about where
you see this media space coming. And I love the

(01:49):
comparison you made because again, you were in the in
the mix of the record industry when this kind of
consolidation happens. So talk to us a little bit about
just kind of what do you feel the landscape is
and where we're headed.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
Well, the world is not all about content, and it's
all about real content is real estate. So it's all
about keeping you on these platforms as long as they
can because while you're watching this content, they're extracting data,
and data is the new goal. So every time they

(02:19):
can have content or acquire content that keeps you on
these platforms longer, that's the name of the game. So
it's really just about content acquidition, acquisition and consolidation. I mean,
if you look at Paramount, I mean, look at how
many movies they actually put out in theaters as opposed
to other content, you know, I mean, they're basically just

(02:41):
a big catalog. I mean, Paramount you have everything from
the Sopranos and Shameless to Star Trek, you know what
I mean, and a lot of the old TV shows
and stuff.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
So really what it is is it's.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
Just consolidation of archives and new content and put it
on their platform. So Netflix is basically buying up catalogs,
which is like what's happening in the music business. I
mean you hear you know they're doing fifty times multiples
on some of these catalogs. Well, the reason why is
because these catalogs are the new gold and if they

(03:19):
can acquire all of the old catalogs, then they can
train their ais on the old catalogs. And what was
a hit like? If you know, you look at like Universal,
for instance, how many number one records do they have
do you know what I mean, Like, how much that's data?
So you take all of those number one records, you
throw them in a blender and spit out something insuno.

(03:42):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Well, they're about to do the.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Same thing with movies. I mean, if you think that
human actors and all of this do great jobs, wait
till Agi comes on.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
And that's scary when you stop and think about it.
But that's what's happening. Consolidation of content. I mean, go
back to the nineties with the record labels. So we
have def Jam, we had Uptown, we had all of
these great labels, full staffs, everything. Well, now you just
have the catalogs and the logo and they can use
that to create new material.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
So who do you kind of feel like right now
is jocking for position? Obviously Netflix and YouTube are kind
of going at each other. Does YouTube have a play
do you see? Or they kind of just sit back
and kind of let the dust set and see what's
going on?

Speaker 3 (04:27):
Well, I mean, look, it's always gonna be big fish
eat little fish, you.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (04:32):
So right now, I mean the one to watch is Disney.
Is Disney going to I mean there's no other big
catalog like that out there, do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (04:41):
So?

Speaker 3 (04:42):
Is it going to be with Netflix? Busy doing? You know,
the Warner, the paramount, you know, all of this kind
of stuff. I mean, is Disney gonna get eaten by YouTube?
Or is Disney? I mean, it's not like Disney can
buy YouTube?

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Do you know what I mean? When you you know
what I mean?

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Like again, I'm I'm more of a surface level guy.
But when you said that a second ago, when you
said YouTube by like, I don't think I grasped my
guess how big YouTube is?

Speaker 3 (05:11):
Well, okay, look at it like this, Apple is a
trillion dollar company. A couple trillion now right something like that. Okay,
we're talking about billions over here.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (05:21):
So they still have a lot of growth to go, right,
do you know what I mean? So it's far from monopoly,
but it's definitely monopoly. Yeah. Do you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
To say that YouTube's big play hypothetically or possibly could
be to go snatch?

Speaker 3 (05:36):
I don't see a world where it being anything more
than YouTube and Netflix.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Really, I just don't see it.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
Wow, you know, like I'm surprised that like Warner Music
hasn't been brought by Universal. Do you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 (05:50):
You know, I mean, would you say right now with
this transitional shift with the iHeart, you know, partnering with
Netflix and and this, you know pods going over there,
is this kind of a transitional or or not?

Speaker 2 (06:05):
I wouldn't.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
I hate to use the word guinea pig, but is
this kind of just a let's see how this works out?

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Or this is gonna work out?

Speaker 3 (06:11):
It's content? So the podcast what if you're gonna go
what is okay? You look at like YouTube for instance,
what do they have content wise? That Netflix doesn't podcasting,
So they're not doing a deal with iHeart for radio
station right, They're not trying to get into that space.
They're trying to get all of their podcast content. So like,

(06:33):
you know, I'm surprised that you haven't done it deal.
I mean, you got wet the number one sports.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
We've actually talked to them here we go. No, we've
actually had literally when you walked up, we were having
our end of the year review call and our strategy
for twenty six and obviously the Netflix and iHeart because
we're with iHeart, we have a strategic partnership with Netflix
on some other stuff. So obviously that conversation had jumped up.
But you know, I think we're we're riding steady as
a company and can just kind of continuing to build

(07:00):
ourselves out.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
Well, and you did it right, Okay, you're if I'm
not mistaken, you have to correct me if I'm not.
But your license every right, so you own your catalog.
So what's going to happen is they're going to need
all of that. You know, someone is whether it's and
and I think that will create a bidding war. And
that's really what it is now. I mean I said
something the other day that people I don't think latched

(07:23):
onto is you are your IP? Do you know what
I'm saying? Intellectual property? We are intellectual people. You know
what I'm saying, We deal and it. You know, somebody's
got to sit and consume what the what they're platform
per forming. You know how things go viral is you
know the algo recognizes how many times things get l liked,

(07:45):
how many times things get shared, and how many comments
go quickly and then it catches onto that momentum. So
how do I word this? Your your personality, your profession.
Whatever you do is a part of your intellectual property.

(08:05):
So what's going to happen is AI is going to
have what's called agents, which is a carbon copy of you.
So yeah, so what's going to happen is if you're
a specialist in anything. You could be a doctor, you
could be a lawyer, you could be a basketball player,
you could be a radio program or anything like that.
When someone goes to do that, it's a lot like

(08:27):
you know, we have pro tools in the music industry,
and what happens is is in the pro tools you
have what's called presets, okay, which is they got the
best people in the world, say for engineering, the EQ guys,
John Marie Horvat, Dave Way, Chris Lord, Algae, and they
created presets. So if you're using a snare, you just
load up the preset and it's a program that was

(08:50):
originally set up by one of the best in the
business that you can apply to your snare. Well, that's
what they're going to do with AI is everybody who's specialist.
AI will be the hands of the doctor. But you
can pick the back heart surgeon in the world to
do your heart through the agent.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Do you see what I'm saying, I hope that's clear.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
I mean transitioning to that's how you said that, Sora, Sora, Ai.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
Just did a deal with Disney. Can you kind of
speak to.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Well, Sora, what's interesting about that? And you know it's
funny because look at how many with Sora, how many
like you know, the Jake Paul Ones and all of
those that were done that were kind of suspect. Do
you know what I mean Disney being a wholesome family company.
I mean just think like snow White and the Seven
Dwarfs with people how they you know, think and stuff crazy.

(09:44):
I mean, yeah, for Disney. I mean I can't wait
to see the restrictions on the like how to do it?
But I mean, look every like I said, everything is
a carbon copy of a brand or an intellectual property,
whether or not it was drawn a ridge only by
a human. And now look at that evolution. A perfect
way to explain where we are and where we're going

(10:07):
is go back to the pen and paper and Disney
early early days and look at how that's evolved from
someone having to draw a sketch on a piece of paper,
then put it on a cell, then you know, film
it the way that they do to Pixar. Now Pixar
to AI, do you know what I mean? Everything is

(10:29):
just a tool. So it's just going to be really
interesting to see, like with Agi, you know, and and
Super you know, with Agi is like, well, the way
that AI is, it's basically conscious AI. It's an AI
that can think for itself, you know what I mean?
And you know it goes into the deep discussion of

(10:50):
are we AI? You know, we're walking around in a
biomechanical suit that some people would say need an upgrade.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Do you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
So if you don't think that they can consciousness transfers
and all of that kind of stuff in some lab
on area fifty one, you're crazy, you know.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
What I mean?

Speaker 3 (11:09):
You know, I mean you think of it like this,
The government has to stay thirty to fifty years ahead
of what the public has or else. It's not because
if you go back in history, they were talking about,
you know, jet propulsion and stuff like that in the forties,
you know what I mean, the stuff that they're using,
that's what they were saying. Elon Muskot originally mad at

(11:30):
Is in his Doge data thing, which Doge was just
a trojan horse to get a bunch of information and
throw it in to Grock. I mean, he found all
of this technology that everybody's been fragmenting and keeping from
each other. So he's like, I'm talking about rockets from
the forties and you have gravity manipulation, and that's what

(11:52):
started the Yeah, you know what I mean. Supposedly, I don't.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Know a lot of people said it, but I wanted it.
You know, I'll get a little that's dope, Dereka.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
I love that extensive background in the radio space, experience,
worked in the two biggest markets in the country, top
two hip hop stations Hot ninety seven and POWERWEO six.
Talk to us just about that, that journey, what you
learn from it and some of the amazing people.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
You know.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
I've kind of always looked at myself as like the
forest Gump of hip hop, do you know what I mean.
I've always just been or music. I've always been really,
really lucky to be in the right place at the
right time to see some cool shit happen. I started
in radio when I was twelve years old in Santa Barbara,
and my first mentors were Steve Smith and Michael Newman.

(12:43):
Steve Smith Rest in Peace, who were the greatest radio
programmers ever in the history of the music business.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Steve went on.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
To program Hot ninety seven in New York. Michael went
on to become the biggest consultant of radio in the world.
But when I was twelve years old, Michael Newman was
the night job at the local radio station. So they
gave out the phone number one time and I just
called and bugged him until he called me in and
let me be an intern. So same thing I do
to you.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
This is this is like sixth grade though, right twelve
years old, sixth seventh grade, you.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
Know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
I was going I was just getting ready to go
to junior high okay, And you know, I just bugged
him finally, you know, I would push buttons when you
know he was on the air.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
And I learned that way.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
And one night the overnight jock didn't show up and
they said, you can go on the radio, but don't
talk too much. It's like a chipmunk, you know what
I mean. So I just went on and that that
just turned into my love of radio music, connection with
people and creating synergy with it all, you know. So

(13:47):
I never thought of radio as a radio programmer, Like,
I learned from the best, and I had these mentors
that were great, So it kind of, you know, was
like osmosis. You know, I learned so much, but I
always thought of it as a fan. So I am
what you get when you give the fan an all
access pass and a little bit of power. Do you

(14:10):
know what I'm saying. So, Like in nineteen ninety seven,
when I went to Power one, I'm six. I wasn't
thinking of ratings. I was thinking, I got to meet
Doctor Dre and DJ quick before I get fired, do
you know what I'm saying. So I wanted to get
Dre and Snoop somehow in the room together, you know
what I mean?

Speaker 1 (14:29):
So I said, you were instrumental in that. Come man,
toot your own a little bit. Talk to me about that.
I mean too, I'm a huge West Coast fan, but.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
I mean that's I mean.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
You know.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
A funny story is when I did finally get them
together and I played well, let me rewind, I played
a trick on them. That's how it happened. I ran
into Snoop at a show and he had just gotten
off death row. Well, he said he had just gotten
off death Row. They were paying him five thousand a
month on ret tainer or something and not his royalties,

(15:02):
and he had they had just cut that off. So
me thinking, oh shit, we'll come to work at Power
one six, you know, and in the middle of the
death Row era by the way, showing up Monday morning
to your boss and saying, by the way, I just
hired Snoop Dog. You don't hire that kind of Power.
It's kind of an interesting, you know, situation. But anyways,

(15:23):
they went for it, and then I met Drey.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Oh so you got Snoop haired.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
Yeah, he was an employee of Power doing what he
was on the air for on Saturdays.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
So he had after this.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
This is ninety seven, okay, eight ninety seven ninety eight,
so he was doing weekends for us, and I was like, look,
you can play in your music that you're making. You can.
Because it was kind of a lull for Drey and Snoop.
I mean, Dre had the Aftermath album, he had the
Firm album, and then he did Zoom Zoom with Hell
Cool Jay.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
So everybody them went to no limit.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
Then right, well, Master P heard Snoop on the radio
playing new music, calls me and goes, Yo, how do
I get in touch with snow? Oh, here's a hotline number,
call him? You know what I mean, Like, I'm a
sneaky little you know what.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
Do that get it done?

Speaker 3 (16:19):
And master P, I mean, such an amazing dude, you
know what I mean? Like he would like the most humble,
the most down to earth, Like he would show up
at my office every morning until we played a master
P record, you know, because we weren't playing the Dirty South.
We're a West Coast rappers.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Ninety eight is my senior year. I'm kind of dating myself.
But that double album with a true t are you
are you?

Speaker 1 (16:42):
That double album that was around that ninety seven ninety
eight time, and we were bumping that up a Sacramento
but you would never never hear it on the radio.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
Well, and he wanted to know everything, like how do
Howard Records researched? How do you develop? How did what
are the mixtures? What role do they play? How do
I need to do this? And he literally would show
every morning to the point where I started going to
the back door, you know what I mean, and not
through the front. Well, he'd get it and he'd go
to the back door you know what I mean. But

(17:10):
then he met everybody in the office and they basically
gave him a freaking key card, you know what I mean,
Like he would be in my office when I got there,
you know what I mean. So it was just it
was awesome. So anyways, when Snoop was doing the Weekends,
I met Dre at the Zoom Zoom video shoot and
I said to Dre, I said, what the fuck is this?

(17:31):
And he's like, what are you talking about? I said,
Zoom Zoom? What happened to the one that was in
the Compton Squap Meets that I had Snoop on it?
Like what are you doing? And he goes, how the
hell do you know that record? I said, bro, I'm
a fan and he was like, okay, I messed with you,
like you're You're cool. So we exchanged numbers and now
it was just about how do I get them in

(17:53):
the room. So I tried everything. I was like, Dre,
you know you're DJ, come in and mix while he's
on the air. No, I don't think that's right. You
know this, that and the other. So I was like, okay,
well I got Snoop for a powerhouse, you know, and
around the same time, I became kind of just a
sounding board for Dre because after having those you know,
Jimmy had given him thirty million dollars you know what

(18:14):
I mean for the aftermath thing. So they weren't trying
to spend any money on Dre, and Dre was kind
of like, what am I going to do?

Speaker 2 (18:21):
You know what I mean? So no one was we're
both kind of at a crossroad, so to speak, just.

Speaker 3 (18:25):
At different levels. Yeah, both Snoop Andrew. Yeah, so Snoop
met Pe that starts to buzz up and I'm like, look,
you know we're doing this show. Why don't you come
to the show. Well he says, uh, this is huh,
this is grey, and so he goes, yeah, I'll come
to the show. So he comes to the show, and

(18:45):
at the show, I'm like, I'm like, well, I'll put
a dressing room next to Snoops, so when Dra comes in,
he'll be in that area. Well, then I started getting
sneaky and I switched the names on the door.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
So they walked into each other.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
So when he walked in, he walked into snoop stressing room.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, how'd that go?

Speaker 3 (19:07):
It wasn't great? They you know, I knew that, you
know from talking to the two. There was no animosity,
you know what I mean, And there was such you know,
it was such a crazy time for hip hop. I mean,
you know you had you had Biggie and Puff doing
what they were doing, you had Mac ten and West
Side Connection. I mean, there was all of this. So
like my first show, the one that I met Snoop at,

(19:28):
was like ice Cube and mac ten and the Dog
Pound and you know all of this. Well, Puffy and
Mace and Biggie showed up to that show. So Biggie
and Snoop are standing on stage together and we're like thinking,
like the East West Beat, what are you talking about?
This is dope, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (19:46):
But Snoop speaks to the how how cool him and
Biggie were.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
That a lot of feathers though, Well, but you know
fuck that. You know, people that were supposed to have
problems for the narrative is what got us fucked up?
Do you know what I'm saying? And then I see
this and I'm like, oh, it's all about unity. It's
about bringing people together, causes reaction with the crowd. So okay,
So now this Drake and Snoop thing has to happen.

(20:10):
So while they were so, dra goes to the stage
with me. Snoop's on stage and I look over at
DJ Jam and I play deep Cover, Play deep Cover
and Dre's like, nah, no, you know we're not there yet.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
We're not there yet.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
I'm like, dog, you go out there and do nothing
but a gene thing. This place is gonna go freaking
go crazy. And he's like, look, look, and so I
grabbed two mics from the sound guy and I'm like, Drake,
pick one and go and he's like fuck this, walks
out there and they do deep Cover. Well after the
show I'm like, okay, so what are we doing? And

(20:45):
he goes, is that what you wanted? And I said, no,
what I want is an album. He said, don't push
your luck, kid. But then that Monday he called me
and goes, this was great, Like what can we do?
And he goes, Snoop and I are going to go
in We're gonna do which ended up being busting rocks
for know, the No Limit album and stuff like that.
But they started. I'm like, well, let's do a show
in Hawaii. You wouldn't Snoop together like you know, we'll

(21:07):
do it somewhere else because look at the time, no
one would ensure a West Coast rap act. I mean
in LA I mean, I mean, if I couldn't say
we're doing ice Cube at the Palace, do you know
what I'm saying. I could say the Dog Pound, you
know what I mean? But if I said ice Cube
or anything that was headlineable. You know, if I said

(21:29):
Biggie and Puffy were coming to the show, they would
have shut it down. I mean, look, when we had
that show at the and this was at the Pond
in Hollywood with Snoop and Dre, I got a call
from the Anaheim Police Department. They literally showed up to
my office and said, Sugar's getting out.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Of jail tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
Okay, there's a rumor he's coming to your show. We're
gonna shut it down. And I was like, well, why
doesn't somebody just call him and invite him? At least
when when the motherfucker I had And they're like, good,
you go ahead and do that. You got it, And
I was like, so I called Sugar and invited him,
and by showing that respect, he said, look, you ain't
gonna have a problem with me.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (22:08):
Now, what's messed up is the next morning after the show,
there's a knock at my door and I'm like, the
hell's going on. It's like seven o'clock in the morning. Knock.
I'm not getting that knock knock. I'm like, damn, I
open up the door. There's a basket on my doorstep
and it says, with my compliments, sug night, I get
that motherfucker my address.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Did he get your address that quick?

Speaker 3 (22:30):
Scary time?

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (22:32):
You know what I mean. No, but that's what started.
So we did the show. We announced the show in Hawaii.
Then I get a call from Jimmy Iveen, who's like,
wait a minute. You know a rapper that I haven't
seen since Death Throw and a producer who doesn't produce
that owes me thirty million dollars, like what are you doing?
And I'm like, look, we're gonna do this thing. You're

(22:53):
gonna get an album, and he goes, look, i'll pay
for the promotion. I'll give you the two hundred and
fifty thousand, but if I don't get an album out
of this, I'm gonna sue your ass. And he goes
because right now I'm trying to get my money back.
I'm talking about selling this. So then Jimmy goes, okay,
wait a minute, I got this kid, eminem. Do you
see what I'm saying. Now, let's put that with Dre

(23:14):
and at least I'll get my money back somewhere. So
then I get a call from Dre says, Yo, I
need you to come to the house. I come to
the house and he's like, how do I break the
White Boy? And I'm like, what do you mean? You
signed the white Boy? So he was in the booth
doing how my name is? He was cutting slim shady
you with base head, That's what he was doing. So
I was like, Dre, he's right in for you. And

(23:35):
he goes, no, no, no no. And I was like,
oh shit, you signed the white boy. And he goes,
how do I break him? I said, well, you tell
me the story from Nwa from beginning to end, and
I'll break the white boy for you. And so I
sat on his washer and dryer. He sat on his
stairs and he told me the story of Nwa from
you know, World Class Wrecking Crew and Lonzo and Doc
and all of this. About six o'clock in the morning

(23:56):
and comes out and he goes, I'm going back to
the real time going on. I said, no, you're going
to power on them six You're gonn announce you're doing
a Friday Night favorite ten year anniversary. Give me the
fucking record.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Wow. And that's how it came and.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
That's how it came to be. So we did the
Hawaii thing. When we did the Hawaii thing, Jimmy got excited.
We had the Eminem thing. Then we added Eminem to
the Hawaii show, and the Hawaii show was at the
peak of how my name is. So then they come
back and they're like, look, we're gonna do a single.
Then we're gonna go on tour again. Nobody would insure it.

(24:27):
And he's like, well, how do we get around this?
I said, well, I just broke jay Z. Jay Z's
manager is Jay Brown. Jay Brown's wife works for Magic Johnson.
Why don't we have my Magic Johnson be the promoter
of the show.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Let me find out you're the fucking puppet master for
all this year?

Speaker 3 (24:42):
Oh yes, I was.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
The concert.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
That's Chronic Island. That was my show is one.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
Of the biggest spoke for him, catalyst for that. Uh yeah,
we did it.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
I I mean it's literal quote was I want to
take the show on the road. How we do it?
And so well Hot ninety seven in New York was
doing summer jams. So I and Steve Smith, the owner
of the Radio Events Group, which was the consultancy and
the touring apparatus, I said, well, let's use that for

(25:20):
Chronic Island and then that'll be the infrastructure. Let's get magic,
take it on the road, promote it through the radio
stations for the consultancy HOT ninety seven Power one O
six thirty two stations in the middle. It will ensure
the ticket sales to.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
The one of the biggest tours. Yeah, to date, that
was awesome. I want to back up though, because that's
fires fucked.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
But now you see my little brains.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
But I have a feeling you got some fifty cents
stories when he first joined RA too.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
Well, I mean how fifty got signed? So how to
Rob was out now keep in mind.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
But he wasn't getting a ton of buzz from that,
right well, respect for wellans.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
How to Rob. I mean he got a lot of
I mean it was so bad. At the time. I
was kind of consulting Mariah and they said it are
fifty in the song said something about Mariah and said
you're not with Tommy and no more and all of
this stuff. So, I mean, he was definitely shaking the trees,
you know what I mean. But it wasn't like the

(26:20):
big buzz. But EM heard how to rob. So I
get a call from Em and Paul Rosenberg at Power
one morning and They're like, look, do you know fifty
cent And I'm like, no, I've never met him. I
saw him at like the Mike Suore Power Summit, but
I you know, I don't know him. And they're like, well, look,
we want to go on Power one O six and
doing attention Kmart shoppers. And I'm like, attention Kmart shoppers,
What does that mean? You want to go on Power

(26:42):
one O six and page fifty cent? And he goes yeah.
So I transferred Em and Paul to the studio on
with Big Boy or with the Bakers, and they said, hey,
we're looking for fifty cent, and that's how they found
fifty cent.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
You get the fuck out of here. Yeah. Then fifty
flew out to LA and.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
That's how it all happen. So I'm just sitting here
just playing game of thrones for real, you know what
I mean? Just putting people in the same room. Like
jay Z walks up to me at a Powerhouse and
he's like, Yo, I want to meet em, and m
I'm like, go ahead, you know what I mean, Like
this is Jane, you know what I mean. Like, and
that's how that happened. You know, with jay Z, it

(27:24):
was like you know, it was all look consistency and
repetition breeds familiarity. Familiarity breeds a relationship. A relationship breads
teamwork or synergy, and synergy is what wins games.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
You practice getting that consistently and repeatedly getting that ball
in the hole. Then you created a relationship with that
who That's what got you to the championships. Do you
see what I'm saying. So if I could put all
of these people together one time a year at Powerhouse
and get them all working together, then we could control
the win and make hip hop the number one format

(27:58):
in the world. And that was the goal, you know,
is to take hip hop from what when I started
in ninety seven they said was over and I'm like
fuck that. I'm like, this is gonna be the number
one it's not a radio format. It wasn't a radio
format like yeah, hot was was the cameel and the
beat and those kind of stations were innovative, but it

(28:18):
wasn't a format. We made it Top forty and so
like with Jay, I said, look, you need to do
a record with Mariah and he's like, I can't do that.
I'm a street rapper.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
Da da da dam.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
I was like, I can't do that. He's just you know,
I'm a pop and they give me enough. Da da
da da da. I'm like, but DJ Clue produced your
new record. Do you see what I'm saying? Synergy that works?

Speaker 2 (28:39):
And that was his first, his first number one.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
Yeah, so now he copied that synergy plan associating yourself
to a bigger brand. And look at every deal he's done,
whether it's Barclays, whether it's Lincoln Park, whether it's so teaching.
Synergy marketing has always been just something that I did.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
I feel like we're missing some weed for this fuck episode.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
Don't get me high much worse.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
No, I love walk us through how radio was the
main way artists used to be broken Because obviously you've
named some of the biggest artists and you've helped break
some of the biggest artists, But that was the only
way in at the time. Correct, Well, no, I mean.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
It was the look MTV, you know, for all intents
and purposes, broke eminem right, but we incubated it. You know.
The way to break a record back in the day
or still to this day, which they are missing is
through taste makers, is through organics.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
You know.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
The problem with the reason why we don't have big
hit artists right now is half the world does not
have Internet. Okay, so you're dealing with maybe twenty to
thirty percent saturation, do you know what I mean? So
there's seventy five percent of the money it's still on
the table and they haven't gotten it yet. But tech
is such a big influence that they say, nothing else

(29:57):
is there, you know what I mean. So it's like,
you know, it's you're not reaching in. Look, there's only
a small amount or percentage of people that can afford
data plans on their cell phones, you know, and that
is not what incubates the culture, you know. It's the
nooks and crannies, the hoods. Look, we're spoiled in the metros. Okay,

(30:19):
we have internet, We have Wi Fi, We have all
of these things, but go into inner cities. They're not
sitting on TikTok all day. They're not eating up their
entire month's data plan on one playlist. You know, they're
checking their email, you know what I mean? If they
if they do that, you know what I mean. So
you know your FedEx driver, your liquor story. All of

(30:39):
these guys aren't sitting on YouTube all day. They have
the radio on. And people don't realize that. So radio
is still a very important part of people's lives, but
they don't even realize it. And it's it's never been
it's never been the end all be all, but it's
always been the fire starter, do you know what I'm saying.

(31:01):
So like, for instance, you know, back in the day,
you'd give the mixers the taste makers, the record, let
them play it for a couple of weeks, let it
sauce up, then you move it to the next Well,
now with the Internet, you just have the song on
and gone. And there's an old saying in the music business.
You got one record that sells a million or a
million records, it's a one. It's still the same number.

(31:22):
So now with pro rodas streaming and market share. It's
paid on records, So when somebody's song is played, it
doesn't go chi chang you of this person that amount
of money. It's all market share. Now do you see
what I'm saying, So it's not equated to an actual
spin or an actual stream where radio it is.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Do you see what I'm saying?

Speaker 3 (31:45):
So it's it's always been the incubator, it's always been
the platform to get your message out, and it's just
it's being missed right.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Speak to obviously, if.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
We're going to keep being ADHD together. Obviously they're saying
Linears is slowly coming to an end. Speak to those
who feel that radio is on that same path because
obviously you don't.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
Well obviously look at look at the numbers. They're all declining.
Look anytime you do surveys, for instance, your your sample
size is going to get smaller and smaller if you
only play the one audience, you know what I mean.
So what's happening is it's it's oversaturated on one side
and lopsided. So radio, yes, is still an important part,

(32:36):
it's just not being attended to it, enough attention to it,
and it's not being it's not being able to play
its part. You know what I mean, it's still very
much a part. I mean, look at okay, look at
the iHeart deal. What is that? What is the breakfast
club deal? It's really just a deal with the morning
show of Power one oh five. It's if you say

(33:00):
radio isn't important anymore, there's your answer right there. It
incubated something to the public. Switch. Instead of being on
the frequency of one oh five, whatever it is, it's
now on the YouTube or the Netflix frequency.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
In your perfect world, if you were tasked with giving
radio the support and needs, what would that look like?

Speaker 3 (33:21):
I ain't going to give away the game like okay,
I mean no, because look no, it would be creating
a platform. Look it's backwards. You look at like iHeart
for instance, they have four thousand radio stations that broadcast
onto a platform. Why don't you have a platform that
broadcasts onto four thousand stations and cut out all of
the overhead. You're spending four billion to make six cut

(33:43):
out all.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Of the middleman.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
Have the platform mix do drink Champs with a mixed
show or your show with a mix show and broadcast
it onto all four thousand stations? Do the tours, do
the packaging, do use the radio stations like for instance,
def Jam is an ip it has history documentaries, micro dramas,
all of these kind of stuff. You could do that

(34:05):
with radio Powerwino six is. I could go back and say,
oh the Dray and Snooper Union to now give me
another single single. Let's be a part of all of
that ecosystem. You know, imagine if the up and Smoke
or the chronic Island was in this social media world.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
Oh fucking crazy, clipped up.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
And fucking we had. You know, if I was smarter now,
we would have a cut of the tour, we'd have
a cut of this and that we'd consolidate it all
in the one thing. But people, anytime you say the
word radio, like I've said, look, I want to buy
Power one on six, I want to buy kDa and
I want to take the brands, and I want to

(34:42):
do it a certain way. The second I talked to
a VC about radio, they go, We're done.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Really, they just don't understand it. They're just like, no,
we're good.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
It's all about tech, and I go, yes, in ten
years it will be. But it's a gateway drug. Do
you know what I mean you need to have the
platform and the and then slowly wean them off of it.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
We're going to find some money for that.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
Well, I mean, look, okay, I'll give you. Let me
give you, and I'll tell you how easy a deal
it would be. So Power was sold for eighty million
dollars and win ten years ago. Okay, they're worth twelve
five now because they're the last rated radio station in
Los Angeles. Now you get Power one O six. I'll
fix the ratings. It'll put it in the top fifteen. Right,

(35:23):
the valuation will go from twelve five to fifty million
and six months guaranteed, which would secure your investment. And
not just that, but you'll have an ieheart within ten years.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
Monster explain that. I yeah, yeah, the game.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
But what we would do is broadcast a morning show
and afternoon show in this on several formats, simul cast
it instead of syndicated like Big Boy. Simul Cast it
straight to the transmitters. Cut out all of the overhead
of all of those stations. No studios, no this, no that. There.
You are micro dramas on the history of music, docuseries, documentaries,

(36:04):
all of those kind of things. But people don't look
at like power win on six is a valuable ip.
Do you see what I'm saying, It's what you create
from it. It's the same way in ninety seven when
they said hip hop's not valuable, Drey and Snuper not valuable. Kid,
you're crazy. I'm like, you're not thinking of the future.
You're thinking now.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, look ahead.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
I love right, No, I love it, but cut the check.
Explain the difference between obviously there's always been and you
even spoke to Snoop with royalties, how royalties were weren't
paid out, and how streaming kind of compares, how streams
compare paid out compared to how royalties of same bullshit.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
Or stuff like that. Now it's pro rada streaming. It's
all about market share. So the way that they do
it is say, for instance, Drake has twenty percent of
Spotty Spotify's streams, where Universal has twenty percent of Spotify's
streams and they get twenty percent of the pool. It's not
equated to a stream. So for instance, if an independent

(37:07):
artist comes out and they say do eight hundred streams,
nine hundred streams, they don't get paid at all. They
take that money and they put it in a pool
and Universal that has the twenty percent they get that.
That's how messed up it is because it and think
how many of those artists there are. So the majority

(37:29):
of streams are independent artists and artists that are getting
two hundred. Remember that saying you have one record that
sells a million or a million that sell one, Well
the million that sell one is what's driving it. But
the record companies and the major label artists, the number
one artists are getting that money. And look, you got
to remember, the record business was built off of prohibition.

(37:52):
It was built off of bootlegging.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
So in the speakeasies and back in the day when
they were doing a prohibition, they had these clubs, and
you know this, they had the clubs and they would
traffic liquor into these clubs so the rich people could
get away with drinking it, pay off the cops through
all of this kind of stuff. Well, they would traffic
the artists in the car with the liquor or right
behind it. And that was known as the circuit. So

(38:18):
when liquor became legal, what did they put through that system?
And that circuit the music business, and that's how the
music business was born, so it's always been developed out
of corruption and bullshit. Now with what we're talking about,
say this radio station, say okay, independent artists, you incubate them,

(38:40):
incubate them, you stream them. You create a competitor to
Spotify that's based for independence. You play the game with
the majors, give them the single and all of that stuff.
But in this hub and this ecosystem, you could promote, market, display,
play the artists everything. And now with like the big
artist like Alicia Keys or or wasn't Alisha It was

(39:04):
Justin Bieber licensed his album to deaf Jam. Hello. You
create a whole new spot. You consolidate Spotify, YouTube, radio,
everything into one hub. But they don't want to hear
me though.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
That the hip hop world was flips upside down when
the fifty cent piece came out about Puff on Netflix.
Living through that, Ara, what was just some of your takeaways?

Speaker 3 (39:31):
See, I can't say a bad thing about Puff because
Puff gave me a shot, you know what I mean?
Like that first show when they told me that I
couldn't do Dre and Snoop and Hawaii, the first show
that I did was Puffy and Paradise. Where was that
at that was in the same Hope the Hilton Hawaiian
Village Ballroom. Okay, you know what I mean, and this
is okay. So Puffy and Mace did Can't Nobody Hold
Me Down? That was one of the first records that

(39:53):
I broke. That in the Benjamin's at Power. So when
that happened, Biggie was literally sitting in my office the
morning before he died and he was playing Hypnotized and
all of these records. Well, when he passed, Diddy comes
out with I'll be Missing You and comes to me
and is like, how do I break this record? I'm like, look,

(40:14):
I'll take care of it for you. So when I
started playing it, he was like, look, what are we
doing to set up my album? I'm gonna do an
album now. So I said, well, let's do this show
in Hawaii's and say, won't let me do the Dray
and Snoop thing. It'll prove that it works. It works,
then they'll let me do the Dray and Snoop thing.
You know this, that and the other and plus La
is too hot for you right now. And he's like,

(40:35):
what a great idea. Let's do it. So we marketed
it across power hot in the thirty two stations, flew
the listeners to Hawaii and he spent two hundred and
fifty grand, you know, five hundred grand something crazy to
do it. But we sold more records in LA than
we did in New York, you know what I mean.
So he gave me a shot, you know what I mean.

(40:56):
So Puff's always been great to me. I never saw
none of this shit. I'll tell you another story about
Puff that was of why I'm such a an advocate
for him personally. And the reason why is like, we
were supposed to have a meeting and I said, look,
my grandma's having knee surgery. I got to go to
Santa Barbara. And he's like, oh, no, cool, cool, Wait

(41:16):
there's Santa Barbara, like and yeah, Cottage hospital you know,
da da da da da. She's they didn't give her
enough pain medication or something. She called me crying, I'm
going back to Santa Barbara and he's like, oh, no,
no problem, no problem. And when Grandma called me, she said,
look the nurses, you know, they're not paying attention to me.
I'm sitting here, you know, I'm in pain. It's the
worst day of my life, all of this stuff and

(41:36):
I'm telling Puff this. He's like, na, nah, go go go,
It's all good. I get to Santa Barbara, the whole
floor is buzzing and I'm like, what the hell is
going on? I walk in. My Grandma's got this big
old smile on her face and the room is filled
with flowers, and I'm like, mom, what happened? And she
goes Puff called and I was like what. And she

(41:57):
goes Sean Puff whatever his name is called and said,
I'm a very important person. And all of the staff
now is treating me like who is John? I need
to call him and say thank you.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
She had no cluestion, you know, it just had no clue, right,
but just one random phone or one phone.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Clumb he didn't have to do, but took my grandma
out of pain. I love that, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (42:21):
So I always love you.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Had an interesting I saw one of your stories how
you had talked about it, and I had no clue
that they were in LA. When I say they puff
and been big for almost a whole month, devoting and
do it should talk to because I don't think a
lot of people know that.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
Well.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
They had the Source Awards you know what I mean.
They had like the Awards show that you know, all
of that season, you know what I mean, And they
were getting ready to put out ready to die. So
they were using it as the base of operations for
going to Phoenix, San Francisco, Sacramento. I mean, they were
doing a radio tour. And you know, it was crazy
because in that morning when I was talking to big

(43:00):
you know recently on Joe and Jada, they were talking
about how did Biggie want to be in La?

Speaker 2 (43:06):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (43:07):
He loved you know what I mean, he loved in
that morning, Palm Trees women, we the fact that California
loves my music. I spent so much time out here.
Listen to the song I made and played me going
back to Cali, you know what I mean. That's how
influenced he was by La.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Snoop Dogg.

Speaker 3 (43:26):
He's like my dog D D D D D. So
I mean, yeah, he was out there for a month,
Like we had that show two weeks before. Uh, it
was like late February, early March. You know, he passed
March ninth, but he even came to the shows, you
know what I mean. He was he was out here
and he was. He was like twenty four years old.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Brow. I don't think people understand not to cut you
off him how young. Him and Puck both were just babies.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
They were just so far ahead of their years and
in wisdom and game and the way they could spit well.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
And you knew that that Diddy was aware of it,
you know because like, for instance, the show that they
came to, he called me five minutes before they were
coming and said, I'm coming, but I didn't tell anybody,
you know what I mean, But I'm coming to support you.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (44:14):
Like, And that's the way he was, at least with me,
is there's no middle ground there, you know what I mean.
If loves you and he's supporting you, that's the way
it is. But I you know, it was where it was.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
You were a major player on both coasts in regards
to radio. When this whole East West beef kicked up
and we lost to the greatest to ever do it.
What were your thoughts and kind of positions, because again
you were instrumental in the New York stations and the
LA stations.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
Well, you know, after seeing snooping big on stage, I
couldn't put it together, this East West thing, and I
didn't get it, so I never really paid attention to it,
you know what I mean? And you know me, IRV, Gotti,
Jah jay Z, they always are. Irv used to say

(45:04):
that I'm the guy that built the bridge, do you
know what I'm saying. I just always looked at it
as we all need to come together and work together.
So I know it's it's kind of a roundabout, but
I just never paid attention to the East West thing, so.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
It's kind of a I don't know any Puck stories.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
Yes, actually so uh the Grammys, remember when he came
with kiss on stage and you know, opened it up
or whatever it was. Well, that night there was a
Grammy's party and death Row showed up at the party
was at the Four Seasons in Hollywood, and everybody was
scared and hit the walls. Well me, I see Sugar Poc.

(45:43):
I'm a hip hop fan. I'm like, I'm gonna go
meet Tupac.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
So I walk up and did you know either of
them at that point?

Speaker 3 (45:48):
No, never met either of them, and everybody else hit
the walls, like I mean, nobody, I mean, but it
was everybody in death Row. You know what I mean
it was it was everybody but Dre you know what
I mean. It was the dog pound mc hammer was
with him. You know, it was during that era. It
was like everybody was together in the middle of the room,
but nobody would go talk to him, you know. So
I just walk up and I'm like, yo, I love

(46:11):
the new album. And Pak looks over at me and goes,
the album doesn't come out till Tuesday. How the fuck
did you get it? And I'm like huh and he goes, shug.
This little motherfucker says he got the album, shows like, wait,
how'd you get it? And I said, oh, I'm an
alternative radio. They sent it us to us the friday
before because they know we can't play it. And then
Pak looks over and goes, so, what's your favorite song?

(46:32):
And I said, oh, song one, just two, A million
pairs of eyes looking hard, and then he says it
with me, did you will never see the peak? And
he and he goes have you met Snoop? And then
just like I mean and induced And you know the
craziest thing about that moment was I met Nate dog resting.
People who would have known, just like five years later

(46:54):
that would be one of my best friends. Really, Nate
was I mean, I did music in me, I did
where I want to be, I did wake Up, I
did it. I mean, Nate was my guy, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
We work together. He doesn't get talked about love. What
kind of do was he? Because he was.

Speaker 3 (47:11):
The greatest, Like our relationship was so sarcastic and funny,
Like you know, there was a story I tell sometimes
where we're doing what would you do? We're doing Glitter,
We're doing if we for Glitter. But while we were
waiting for Mariah, Nate does a whole nother song to
the record. Right, So we're sitting there doing it or whatever,

(47:31):
and I said, hey, in this little bridge part or
in this part, we could do a bridge. He's like,
I don't do bridges, motherfuckers. You know. And this is like,
you know, back in the day. So he's like, I
don't do bridges, motherfucker. I said, no, no, right here? Oo
like new Edition? Do I look like New Addition?

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Do you?

Speaker 3 (47:46):
Motherfucker? And I'm like sitting there going like, come on, Nate,
you know, we just go back and forth like this.
So we're playing the record and he sits there and
goes ooo, and he goes, yeah, go back play that again.
I'm gonna record something you're looking like, new edition. Motherfucker.
Fuck you miss put a little more base in it,
like but that was our dope.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
And yeah, So Nate, he was the greatest ever, one
of the greatest writers, greatest performers. I mean, he was
just awesome.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
I've always heard this is such a good dude, just
a great dude. Rest in peace. So you met everyone.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
That you talked about that night at that fourth season. Yeah,
I was a kid in a candy store, but I
didn't There wasn't any meaningful connection. It was just in passing.
Meet your favorite artists, take a picture, move on. I
didn't get a picture with that's the fucking camera in
the car.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
Ran to the car and then they left. Motherless goat.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
March ninth, nineteen ninety seven, I turned seventeen.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
Big was killed. Where were you at? Thoughts? Again? You
were with him the evening with or the day.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
Before without Friday. He was doing radio, so he was
at power on. I was one of the last people
to record him. He did a Baker Boys drop and
he was on crutches, so he said after doing radio.
He was walking by my office and he stuck his
head in the door and he goes, hey, little my
legs are killing me. He want me to go cut
this drop? He goes, but can I just sit in

(49:17):
here and kick it for a minute? And I was
like fuck yah. So he sat on my couch and
we sat there for an hour and we just talked
about hip hop and music everything from KRS Won. You know,
he's getting back with faith and can't wait to go
back to New York and see my kid and you know,
all of this stuff. You know, just great guy. And
then you know, the next he ran down to I

(49:39):
think it was it was either let's see March ninth
with it. So the Saturday, it was a Saturday night
Sunday morning when he passed. So another thing is he
took a tour bus and the record rep comes in
and big hands in this list while I'm sitting on
the couch. And then a couple about a half hour later,
the guy comes in with these bags of frozen TV

(50:00):
dinners for the bus and he lives over at me
and goes, I eat three in one setting, you know
what I mean, like hungry. It was just awesome. But anyways, Yeah,
so he goes does that quick run or whatever it was,
and then I go to the Outcast party because there
was two parties that night. There was a Peterson Audio

(50:21):
Autumn Museum and then there was Outcasts having there at
Quemini party. Well, I was still new. I started February third,
nineteen ninety seven. This is March eighth, you know what
I mean. So I didn't have no juice in la.
I went to the Outcast party thinking I'll go to
this and then I'll go over to Peterson. But I
had tennis shoes on, so they said you can't get in.
So I'm like, damn, I'm just gonna go home whatever whatever.

(50:44):
So I went home. I had just gotten in bed,
and E one was doing the street Team promotion stuff
for Arista calls and says they got big, and I'm like,
what are you talking about. They're like, they got big.
I'm on my way to Cedar Sinai right now, and
I'm like okay, And it didn't really hit me in
the moment I got big when they got in a fight,

(51:04):
like what happened? So then he calls me from Cedar
Sinai and I just hear this screaming and I was like,
that sounds like puff, you know. He goes, yes, he's
on the phone with BIG's mom right now. BIG's dead.
And I was like, that's when that East West or
whatever the label you could put on it hit me

(51:26):
like It's like, okay, two kids just died in the
street kids. And I was like, he was just in
my office, like and you know, everything went through my
head Red Blue Gang's music, like, I mean, it just
it all went and I just couldn't process it, you know.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
And then you know.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
But the craziest story is Johnny j rest In Peace
was really close with a Phoenix Shaquor. I said, look,
you know we're going to do this special on Sunday
night about Big. Do you think a Phoenish Shakur would
call in? And he said, look, I'll give her the message,
but she doesn't like doing public stuff or whatever. So
I'm sitting in my office it was like seven or
eight o'clock at night in the phone rings and I

(52:08):
pick it up and she says, this is a Phoenix
Shakur and I said, oh wow. And she goes, look,
I don't want to do your radio show. She goes
I don't want to go on the radio, but I
will tell you the story of me and my son
if you can get me of Valletta Wallace's number. And

(52:29):
I'm like what. She's like, I want to call Valletta
Wallace And I said, yeah, I'll give the number. You know,
I can't promise anything. She goes, but you know whatever.
So we sat on the phone for probably two hours
and she told me like just about everything from the
Black Panthers and Baltimore and Oakland and you know, crack addiction,

(52:50):
you know, just everything. And at the end of the conversation,
she goes, you can go on the air and say
that you talk to me and tell whatever part of
the story you want. And I never did, you know,
I just I couldn't do it. I was like, it
was such a special story of a mother and her
son that I was just like you, it wouldn't do

(53:12):
it justice to get up there. And I didn't want
to be like, yeah, I talked to Phoenix Poor and so,
but the connection so but they did end up talking
and that was more.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
Important to me than they talked. And then they came
out of some award shows they.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
Did, but it was just awesome to be able to
just yeah, but it's like the dre thing sitting on
his washer and listening to it. I've always been like
Buster rhymes so cool. One time, you know, he was
in the studio and I got all of the young
interns together. You know, there's a picture that I posted
the other day of Jim Brown used to do the
same thing. I took Day one up and all the

(53:47):
young rappers up to go meet Jim, Like these are Look,
the people that are that are in our lives right
now are the keepers of the past that can teach
these young people the way that it was done, you
know what I mean. And that's like, you know, with
tech and with radio and all of these we've lost mentorship, yes,
do you know what I'm saying. And without mentorship, we

(54:09):
have nothing. If we don't know the history and we
can't share the craft with the next generation, then that Look,
you want to know why music is so fucked up
right now?

Speaker 2 (54:18):
Blindly and blind.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
It's the blind leading. It's a kid can get everything,
go sit in his room and do it himself. There's
music is a collaborative effort.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
You know.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
The drummer played off of the bass player the bass
player riffed with a guitar player. Everybody bounced off of
each other, and we just don't have that anymore. And
with social distancing, COVID, all of these things that are designed,
I said, it designed to keep us separated and on
our devices so that they can continue to monitor our data. Yeah,

(54:51):
you know, it's what we've got to get back to.
And it's all about being organic people. Is about connecting
and the reason why we have these problems in society
is because we are not connecting. And that was the
thing with hip hop. I saw it and I said, look,
Drey and Snoop do not have a problem. They just
haven't talked to each other. So I will fall on

(55:12):
the sword here and do it. You know what I
mean that. You know it was funny because when we
were in the Hawaii, the Buoja tribe showed up and
they were there on behalf of sug right. They were
there to disrupt it. So I go down or Snoop
is getting ready to go down. He's like the Bouoja
tribes here because we gotta da da dada. I was like, no, no,
I'll take care of it all. The white boy gotta

(55:33):
go talk Tobu tribe, good luck with that one. Blah
blah blah blahlah. I was like, Snoop, just let me
handle this. I go down and I'm like, hey, you know,
and keep in mind, I know their history. I study
the game. So I'm like, oh my god, I was
playing you guys when you were on MCA with UC
and Da dah Da Da Da. So you guys gonna
drop in it? Well, wait a minute, hold on, we
heard about you.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
Why don't you come in as my guest and watch
the show and then when you guys have a record,
hit me up the woman and so it just diffused
the situation. Snoop walks off to the backstage, says, yo,
where the boya? Travis said? They're in the audience.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
He's like, what's like? What? Cut?

Speaker 3 (56:11):
I said? You see that ring of police around him?
I said, I told him they were stars. They needed
to protect them from the fans. We know where they're at,
and there's a ringer cops around. Can't we know where
they're all at? You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Good move, Miser.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
I like you, but like him with John, you know
him and John We're going to get into. At one
point said no, I got on a plane, I went
to New York. I walked in IRV Gotti's office and
called Snoop Dogg and handed him the phone. You know
what I mean, It's like, we're not going to do
this again. And that's what's missing is people, not me,
but people like me that that will cut through the bullshits.

(56:49):
We can just call the motherfucker and.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Just say the same issue. Obviously, no, it's not life
or death. But I feel like we've spoke so much
to professional sports, particularly in the NBA, about how it's
so young now there's no vets. When I came in
the NBA at twenty one twenty two, there was thirty
eight to forty one year old.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Know what I'm just saying, there was real old.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
There was ogs to put their arm around us, and
what suits to buy, how to invest, you know, what
women to state you just like you said, giving the
history so we don't make some of them. I mean,
we're still going to fuck up and bump our head,
but you know, eliminating some of that, and obviously I
think it goes across the board to exactly what you're
talking about. I mean I feel like I could sit
and talk to you, and I don't want to hold
your whole day up. But there's a couple more people
I want.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
To ask about.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
One of my favorite one of my favorite people, DJ Quick. Ah,
that's my dumb.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
You know, the greatest. Speaking of mentors, Quick is the greatest.
Quick was one of the first artists I met in power,
you know, and we have the same sense of humor,
which we're assholes. So we got along great. And from
the very first conversation that I had with him, he

(57:56):
was teaching, you know, he taught me everything you know
about I wanted to be a producer. Quick would sit
there with me, show me what to do. You know,
when I produced lights Out for west Side Connection, right
and I made the beat with Howie Hurst played the keys,
you know, all of this kind of stuff, and I
couldn't get the mix together. I was so nervous. I
was like, what am I gonna do? So I go

(58:17):
to Uncle Quick and I say Quick. He goes and
he says, what is this and who's on this record?
I said, ice Cube Mactenning, bring me the pro tools.
I said, what He's like, bring it's like two o'clock
in the morning. He's like, bring me the I'm like,
my pro tools engineer is asleep, and he goes, well,
I guess you don't want your record mix. Then I
was like, I'll be right back. So I go back.
I'm banging on this fool's window, old German guy, what

(58:39):
did you know? All this yelling at me and stuff.
Here's the pro tools that I had to put it
on a CD rama. Take it back to DJ Quick.
He's asleep on the couch. I'm like, oh, I got
to wake up DJ Quick. What the fuck? He's like, nah,
I got this, walks in thirty minutes, mixes the whole record,
hands it to me and goes, I'm proud of you.
Do it again.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
And I was like, quicks proud, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (58:59):
But like when I came back, the first one of
the first people to call me is like, Quick, what
are you doing?

Speaker 2 (59:04):
What are we doing?

Speaker 3 (59:05):
You know?

Speaker 2 (59:05):
What are we doing? You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (59:07):
So I was like, look, I'm going to record one.
I'm gonna go over to Dre's I'm doing this. It's
like I'll be over. I was like, yeah, I'm having
problem with this mix. So he comes in and he's like,
and I was like, remember when you mix light Top
for me? He goes, no, no, no, you're gonna mix
this one. And I'm just gonna sit here on your shoulder,
you know what I mean. And he's and but that's
the evolution of Quick. He doesn't forget anything. He's always teaching.

(59:29):
He's there, but he's spent all day just showing me
how to turn knobs.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
I don't think I think he's someone And I don't
want to say lost, because obviously he is a legend,
but I don't think he gets the credit he deserves
for his greatness.

Speaker 3 (59:41):
Stuff. Well, like I have always said, he is the
producer's producer. He is Dre. But Dre had the machine.
You know, He's never had a Jimmy Iya. He's never
had an inner scope. He's always been so low, you
know what I mean. So you know anytime, I mean,
I did the Trauma deal for him, you know what,
with Brian Shafton, and it was the first number one

(01:00:04):
you know. When I left the industry, the last deal
that I did was DJ Quick Trauma with Fontana. He
got eighty percent of his it was an eighty twenty deal.
He got an advance based on his sound scan. It
was That's when I left. I was like, eight bucks
a record, this is good, this is the future in
the record business. We're all right, come back and it's
point six. I'm like, what the what happened? It was

(01:00:27):
like coming home and dad on vacation coming home in
the house is trashed. I was like, what the hell
did you guys do?

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
The business of Drake obviously took the world by store
one of the greatest artists of all time, hit after hit. Obviously,
I don't even care about the I'm not even talking
about the beef with Kendrick. I'm just talking about the
behind the scenes business of who he is as an individual,
the power he carries and is the business of Drake

(01:00:55):
as high as it was a year ago.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
Drake is one of the smartest artist there is, Okay.
I mean, you know, one thing that he does, or
was the first to do, is own his own touring apparatus.
You know, like, for instance, he owns the trucks, he
owns the rigging, he owns all of that and then
leases it out when he's not on tour. You know,
I mean, I think Future is using it right now,

(01:01:18):
you know, what I mean or something. But but he's
he's such a smart guy, you know, and that's why
you know this, I don't see how him being who
he is. I think it's probably ego got involved in
this whole thing. You know, it was very ill advised,
and whoever's advising him now is also ill advised. You

(01:01:41):
know I think that that. I mean, it would be
so easy to repackage him. Really, you know, you gotta
go back. Look I when Mariah did Glitter, they said
there's no way she's going to come back. I'm like,
watch this, you know what I mean, Go see Jermaine.
Let me introduce you to Benny Medina, where I met

(01:02:02):
during the Puffy years. And you know what I mean,
call me when you get back from Atlanta. And literally
when the plane landed, I drove my plane on to
the Tim actually got in the car, played me we
belong together, and I was like, there we go.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
You know, it'd be so easy to repackage and you
know what I mean, it's such a I mean, look,
all he's got to do is go back to making
R and B records.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
And rise above the fray, you know what I mean,
Like it's harder today, that's easier said than done from
a standpoint of we live our lives based on the
outside noise.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
Now unfortunately, Yeah, but if you got to decide which.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Noise you're gonna listen to, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
And that was the problem is you know, like for instance,
Mariah's listening to the critics. You're washed up, You're watched up.
Now let's go to the super Bowl, you know what
I mean? Like, what are you talking about? It's nine
to eleven, Come do the super Bowl. I can't do that.
My first thing. What if I screw up and know
it's a stadium d don't worry, We'll take care of it.
Let's just go do the super Bowl? Mind everybody, who

(01:03:01):
the fuck you are?

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
Like, it's all about, like I said, perception is reality,
but perspective is.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
More effects, you know what I mean, the behind the
scenes and people obviously because of I guess the image
he tries to portray, and I didn't feel fully understood it.
But again I was cliff Note like the most of
the people when he was behind the scenes kind of
suing the labels and for the streams and all that stuff,
Like did that help, not help. How did that end

(01:03:28):
up working out for him?

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
Well, what people don't realize about that lawsuit is, yeah,
it had to do with Kendrick, but it had nothing
to do with Kendrack. Because you know how we're talking
about this Parada streaming, So while somebody's listening to a
Drake record, they are taking data. Okay, the record company's
getting a cut of that data, but the artist isn't.

(01:03:51):
So what Drake wanted to do was find out every
dollar that they're making while his shit's playing. Why if
you if your making more money than you have ever
made and record sales are making this, where are you
getting that money from? And how are you getting it?
And am I connected to that money? And you're not

(01:04:11):
telling me?

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Obviously he was, So he wanted to pull the sheet up.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
So he wanted to audit the label.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Pretty much for everybody. Obviously he'll use hisself.

Speaker 3 (01:04:19):
Oh no, everything, come on, he's selfish. It had nothing
to do.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
With anybody, okay, him, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
Like, you know, it was funny because one of my
first posts I tried to say that and I got
a call from Jermaine Duprix in like two seconds.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Come on, bro.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
This has nothing to do with anybody else. He doesn't
care about anybody else, but he's But look at it
like this Drake has a four hundred million dollar plane.
He's got all of this overhead, he's got all of
this staff, he's got all of this stuff. If he's
not making big deals and have big income, then he's
going to go bankrupt, you know what I mean. So
I mean looking at a label making probably a billion

(01:04:54):
dollars a year off of him, and he's doing a
five year deal and he gets four hundred at the
beginning of it, and then maybe a cut of a crumb.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
That's the old record company bait and switch bullshit.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
So you're saying his laying back in your opinion, with
your expertise, is get back to what you started with.

Speaker 3 (01:05:14):
Okay, look at the Dray and Snoopy union. Go Look,
anytime an old radio saying is is when you're under attack,
go back to what you made you famous, Riah, go
back to making R and B records with Jermaine Dupree.
Remarket yourself as what you were. Look, you know, when
Michael Jackson went out on stage and did smooth criminal.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
He wasn't wearing the.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
Beat it outfit. Do you know what I'm saying? Like,
if it's consistency and repetition, if you're consistently and repeatedly
do what your audience expects from you, then you will win.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (01:05:46):
What he's doing is he's projecting something that he wants
to be, not what he is. Do you see what
I'm saying to try to be to keep stay young
with the young audience. But he's not listening to what
they're saying. He's doing it arrogantly. He's trying to dictate
what they want what they want as opposed to.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
Knowing what they want. What are you currently working on?
What's going on with you? Where work wire? We find? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
You know, I'm just hanging out with you doing What
are we doing?

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
We're about to We're about to give you that Deafino contract.

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
Before you leave here. Done. No, you know, I'm just
trying to figure it out. Like I'm one of those
people that just lives in the moment and I love
working with people. So you know, I've been doing a
minute and thirty radio breaks on Instagram basically instead of
a radio station.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
Look at it. That's fucking crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
Is't not crazy?

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
But it's true, real, yeah facts.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
I went back to what made me famous, right, you know.
I mean when I got back, they said, look.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
You're fifty years old.

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
It's the world has changed. You haven't been here in
twenty years. That it's a social media world. You'll never
be able to make yourself relevant. I said, okay, well.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
Let me see, hi, who are some of the because
you I don't want to name drop the name unless
you want to. You when I was talking the other
day when I was at the mall, you said so
and so hit me and said, like, who are some
of the people. Now that you've kind of put yourself
back in this space and you're starting to make noise,
You're like, okay, yeah, dope.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Well, yesterday and the day before yesterday, Van Jones, I
think this is when I told you Van Jones hit
me up, and I'm like motherfucking sea watching right, you
know what I mean. Some just kind of blew me
away like that blew me away. It's you know, I'm
such a fan of pop culture. I'm a fan of
his you know what I mean. So you know when
I Big Tigger hit me up this morning. I was

(01:07:31):
like the basement rap basement, you know what I mean, Like,
you know, I mean, I'm such a fan that, like
I still can't believe, like I said, I'm the first gump,
you know what I mean, Like it's just it's so
cool to see, you know, I've been really blessed. But
I got a hand into like Fools going Wild and
Teddy Riley, those were the first two that said, oh,

(01:07:52):
this motherfucker's back and teed off.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
So that was really last question.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
I tripped that when you hit me up, I saw
your like and I was like, fucking basketball player. My
little brother fucking lost it. Like he's like, what you
know who? But I'm not. I'm the guy who didn't
even know who Shack was. I'm like the tall rapper
and he's like, like I played for the Lakers. I
was like, whoops, Yeah, I mean he had a record

(01:08:22):
with DJ Quick out right straight player when I was
getting a power one six. So I'm like, you know,
he'd come to the office and everybody would start losing
it and I'd be like, what the fuck he goes
and they were like he's a famous basketball player and
I'm like the tall rapper.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
Last question someone you and I both love and the
door big Boy not Outcast, big Boy Power one six,
big Boy La, big Boy Talk too to do it dope, right, dude,
he is.

Speaker 3 (01:08:52):
You know I I would start crying if I told
you how much I loved that guy, like he has
been not only my biggest supporter, biggest advert kid. I mean,
I can't even put in the words, you know, I
mean we came up together, you know, I mean we
He started a little bit before me at Power, but
we started doing full time. He went to mornings and

(01:09:13):
I went to programming, like right at the same time.
So Big Boy was the voice and it was my boombox,
you know what I'm saying. So I played the records.
He was the one, you know, and without Big Boy
there would be no me because every time they would
say he's crazy, We're not doing this, you know, Da
da da da da, Big would go, Man, you might

(01:09:36):
want to listen him. And Fuzzy Fuzzy too, you know,
Fuzzy Fuzzy. You know, like how I met Snoop was
through Fuzzy. He Fuzzy invited him to that show, and
Fuzzy would say, yeah, the white Boy's crazy, but you
listen to it, you know what I mean. And if
it wasn't for Fuzzy and Jeff Garcia and our team,
you know, yeah, I'm maybe the face of Power one

(01:09:58):
oh six, but it is our team that did it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:10:02):
We had the Baker Boys, we had the good Fellas Romeo.
You know, we had a Big Boy, we had a Fuzzy.
I mean, everybody played a role in making this platform.
And and Big I just I cannot put into words
what he has meant to me, not only as a friend,
but you know, he's he'll he'll pull my collar when

(01:10:23):
I'm tripping, He'll he's a mentor, you know, just but
just the most genuine heart felt There's a reason why
he's still is.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
Big Boy, right.

Speaker 3 (01:10:34):
You know, he's never had a scandal, He's never you know,
not been able to go every place in Los Angeles.
And that's also why we were so successful, is it
was Big Boy, you know what I mean. We our era,
we didn't have no shootings, we had no fights, we
had no problems that any Power one on six event,

(01:10:55):
and a lot of that is because our ambassador was
big Boy.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
Big Boy.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
For all these content creators ips out there. What is
one message where you see the business going? What is
one message you leave them with?

Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
You are your IP and make sure whatever it is
that you do, you copyright it, you trademarket, you do
whatever it is to ensure your legacy. Get a lawyer.
Make sure that you have a lawyer. Make sure that
you check before you click that terms of service and
I mean the record, the new record contract or the

(01:11:30):
new contract for you content creators, is the term of service.
You can ruin your whole fucking career by clicking that
terms of service and it's agreeing to it. You're giving
up your likeness, your biometrics, everything. Make sure that you
read the terms of service and get a fucking lawyer.

(01:11:51):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
Sorry with that, man, I want to thank you for
your time today.

Speaker 3 (01:11:55):
You read the number one one sports podcast on the
freaking planet.

Speaker 2 (01:12:03):
Man, we're trying to we're trying to work. Man, get
that bag.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
Bro, Do you need an agent?

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
No, we need you to come over here and help us.
So we're gonna I need a job. Yeah, we're gonna
make that happen.

Speaker 3 (01:12:14):
No, but doing a minute thirty radio breaks side get one.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
Yeah what I what I wanted to say, was. I've
you know, been blessed to sit down with the multitude
of people across several different spaces, but this has been
my favorite, most educational, probably funnest interview I've ever had. Bro,
So I really want to thank you for that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
Thank you. Sure, yes, yes.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
I'm telling you my little brother's gonna be Hey. Yeah,
you were excited he was following me, not a look.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
Yeah again, I feel like we could talk for hours.
We need to go downstairs and light one.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
But I appreciate your time, man, Thank you, and uh.

Speaker 3 (01:12:49):
I appreciate the opportunity.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
This is the last show of twenty twenty five. I
hope you guys have enjoyed Unplugged this year. Shout out
to my team behind the scenes. We really wanted to
bring try to bring you guys some different We've had
some amazing guests stop buy, such as Jeff Pearlman today,
Demisa mad Max Stack, other people have stopped by. We
hope you guys are enjoying it. The numbers are saying

(01:13:12):
you guys are enjoying it, so we hope to continue
to bring you guys different shit. Obviously, all the smoke
is one thing, and you're gonna sit down and get
your custom interviews with your your some of your favorite people.
But I think my goal with this was to uncover
stories and introduce you guys to people that are instrumental
behind the scenes, and I think we've done a fairly
decent job at that. So thank you, guys for all

(01:13:33):
your support. Twenty twenty six.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
We're coming, y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:13:38):
Twenty twenty six is going to be a fun year
across the board for all the Smoke productions, so thank you.
Stay tuned, Happy holidays, happy New Years, and we'll see
you guys in twenty six.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
That's a wrap. We'll see you guys in twenty six.
Be safe, peace and love.