November 27, 2025 • 53 mins
Women’s basketball is exploding and we linked up with three of the best coaches in the country to break it all down: Dawn Staley, Cori Close, and Vic Shaefer. Matt and Stak get a real inside look at how South Carolina, UCLA, and Texas operate at the highest level and how NIL has reshaped recruiting across the board. Dawn also opens up about her interview with the Knicks and what really happened behind the scenes. The future of the women’s game is shining brighter than ever and this roundtable is a full masterclass on where the sport is headed.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to all the smoke, coming to you guys
live from Las Vegas, the Players Era Tournament fed out
to the MGM MGM Grand It's been a great time
we've had this last of our three days and we've
been able to sit down with the men's side, and
it's only right now that we're able to sit down
with some of the leading coaches in the women's space.
Fun fact, we're looking at the number two, the number three,
(00:22):
and the number four team in the country right now,
so we're well represented with talent. Without further ado, I'm
going to introduce no bias to my favorite person on
the panel right here to my left, my bruined sister
fifteen years at UCLA All Conference point guard, herself at
Santa Barbara Rating Coach of the Year coach Corey Close.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Thank you for your talk, thank you for having.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Us, Thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Next to her, we got the man himself, Vick Schaeffer,
head coach at the University of Texas, six years a
Longhorns coach, four time SEC Coach of the Year.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Welcome to the show, Coach, and.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Last and not least, Jack's favorite person outside of his
children in the world. Gold medalist, three time n C
double a champ, four time Coach of the Year, five
straight Final four appearances, done so much outside of the game,
outside of coaching.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Welcome to the show, Don Staley.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
And I wore her number my rookie year. Yes. Great,
this is.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
The first time you guys actually got a chance to
meet in person to right.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Can I tell you when I tell you? When I
tell you, like when it comes to groupie status, he's.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Your biggest grippet.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I'm real.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
Let's talk about mindset. All three of you were in
the Final four last year but fell short.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
We talk a.
Speaker 6 (01:43):
Lot about yeah, exactly, talk.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
About basketball today, about competing and that's some of the
hardest things that coaches say to get to get the
kids to compete. Talk about the mindset and coming back
after losing, but also coming in this season to try
to get back to that point.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
You first, I.
Speaker 7 (02:01):
Mean, once you get a taste of the Final four one,
you know what it takes to get there. Once you
get a taste of winning a national championship, you know
exactly what to do and you just kind of it's
not a repeat because all teams are come in a
little different but you know, you have to have this,
(02:22):
this or that or else you really aren't going to
get there. And I'll say this, once you've experienced winning
a national championship, it's hard, but it's a little easier
to win it again again because you know, I said,
for seventeen years of coaching, seventeen I try to get
young people to come help us win a national championship.
Speaker 6 (02:45):
Not knowing how hard it is, and.
Speaker 7 (02:48):
Looking back on it, I sold them a dream because
it was hard, Like when we won it and we
found out how we won. Those probably fifteen first years
of coaching didn't have a shot. We didn't have a shot.
So it's just getting young people to buy in. It's
total buy in. It is showing them that they individually
(03:11):
can get better, right because they want to see their progress.
They want to see their their selfish like that, and
they should be selfish like that because we got winning
programs and we're gonna win a lot of basketball games.
But they want to see their progress. So blending the two,
having each equally as important as the overall achievement of
the team really makes them get into knowing that they
(03:34):
play a visable role in our success.
Speaker 8 (03:37):
Coat Yeah, I can remember in twenty eleven, winning it
in Indianapolis and having green and blue confetti fall on
us because they had planned on Notre Dame bars. Wow,
but just knowing how hard it was. You know, we
had to we upset Stanford in the semis, a great
(03:58):
team that Tara had, and then had to go beat
a really good, really the hometown team, and that feeling
as coach was talking about knowing how hard it is
to get there, I think it's been my experience. I
think it's harder to win that Elite eight game really
than any of them. In seventeen, when we went to
(04:19):
the Final four and beat you know, Connecticut in the Semis,
we were so gassed. I felt bad because I I
had already played Don three times I think that year,
and you know, we had gotten out of the arena
that night from an overtime game. We walked into the
Los Anatole at one twenty in the morning and there
(04:41):
were five thousand people waiting on us from Missipy State,
and that was you know, I hated that we didn't
win the national championship, but for those kids to have
that experience, and I think that's what these coaches, myself,
it's just having your kids experience something that great. But man,
it is really first of all, winning is really hard.
(05:04):
Winning at that level is extremely hard, and it's just
it takes so much. Part of it is matchups when
the bracket comes out, you got to have a little luck,
and you got to get hot, you know. To me,
those are kind of the three things that happened that
time of year. And like, these two have such great
(05:26):
teams right now, but they've had some great teams in
the past that maybe even didn't get there. But that's
how hard it is to get there. And once you
experience it. I've experienced it last year with Texas for
the first time, and I know Coach had a heck
of a team last year. And to get those kids there,
(05:46):
I mean when we got done, you know, I got
Madison Booker and Rory Harmon telling me, Coach, I want
to do that again. You know we're And so now
you get a little bit of player lied involvement where
they're like, hey, guys, we know what it tastes like,
we know what it takes. It starts in August for
us on the track, you know, for others it may
(06:09):
start all the way back in the summer, you know,
but it is a long, hard grind to get there.
But you just got to embrace that. And your kids
have you know, we all have highly motivated kids. I
know both of these coaches have incredible competitors and you
have to have you have to be a competitive nut. Really,
(06:32):
I mean, you do. I know these coaches are, you know,
and I know that we have players that are like that,
and that's what it takes. I mean, they just they
embrace how hard it is, you know, because it is
it is really hard.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
You said mindset, you know, and I think that that's
a huge piece that I'm a big believer is that
you never outperform your self image. And so you know,
the difference for us in this journey right now. That
was our first final four last year, and I think
that no matter what you said, there was a sense of,
oh my gosh, we just have to get to the
final four, even if you didn't say that out loud.
(07:08):
And I think now there's a sense of expectancy that
we don't just deserve to be in the final four,
that we now have a taste of what it takes
that we believe we can win it. And you know,
and I do agree with everything they said. I think
that it's just it really is more about we all
have really talented teams, we all are really competitive people.
But to have a team that has the mindset and
(07:28):
competitive spirit to be able to sustain that grind that
VIC talked about, and then to believe that they belong
and that they should win it and that they're built
for it. And I think the journey to get them
to that mindset might be the hardest but most rewarding part.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
How are you three dealing with the big TP transfer portal?
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Okay, well, I think the transfer portal's here to stay.
But we need boundaries, Yes, we need we need an
infrastructure that. Look any major business, none of them have
no boundaries. There's none of them that say, oh, just
do whatever you want, whenever you want. I mean, there's
no there's no industry that that's at the highest levels
(08:12):
that operates in that way. And so I'm a big
believer that you know, the transfer portal, there's a place
for that, and it's it's there's a healthy and good
part of that. But we need boundaries, and I would
be in favor of the first time you can play
right away. After that you got to go back to
sitting out a year as a starting point. But what
(08:33):
we're doing right now is not in line. If you
go to the NCAA website, not that that's a really
good place to go, but that you know that you
talk about the mission of what we're trying to do,
it's not in line with the mission of what we
say we want to do to affect kids' lives, let
alone have competitive equity, let alone be preparing them for
(08:54):
the next levels. I don't think it serves the kids,
the universities, or the co which is very well at all.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
Yeah, and just my point, I think I see walt
kids jumping in the transport porter because they've powered. It's
not because they're not in a great situation. It's not
because they're not getting coached. It's because it's just powdering.
Is that true, that's what it looks like.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Well, I think it can be. I think there's a
various amount of reasons. But I think that we're letting
entitlement and how they feel now get in the way
of what they can become leader. And that's a travesty
in my mind.
Speaker 8 (09:27):
A couple of things.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
You know.
Speaker 8 (09:31):
The thing I'm experiencing, especially when you might take a
young lady that's maybe been playing three years. You know,
And and I'm going to say this on the back end,
if you'll look at and see what's happening in football
this year with some really good coaches that aren't employed
right now. We're trying to take a kid that maybe
(09:53):
has obviously already played a high school career, they've already
played some of it, played three and maybe a fourth
year as red shirt, and on paper they might look like, man,
they're really good, and then we get them and it's
the old We're trying to teach an old dog new
tricks in about a six month period, and it is
(10:16):
really hard to change, you know, to get them to
play in whatever our system is. It's hard to get
them to do that. And when I see what's happening
in football with some of these coaches, they didn't just
wake up Saturday morning become a bad coach.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
But I think.
Speaker 8 (10:33):
They're experience in it where they've had to take they've
not had to maybe they've lost kids or whatever, kids
have moved on. They've taken some kids out of the Portland.
They think, man, they're really good. They came from a
great program, but now all of a sudden their system
might not fit that kid, and so now all of
a sudden they're struggling. They lose three games, the next
(10:55):
thing you know, they're out on their rear. And so
I think that piece and then the question that you ask,
I've watched her program from AFAR. Obviously we're not close,
but I've seen hers up close and in person. I
think it's fair to say that I'm demanding and don't
apologize for that. I've seen done in action. She's demanding,
(11:19):
and she doesn't apologize for that. And I think that
the thing that's happening, going back to what coach said,
is they just wake up one morning sometimes and they
just want to take their ball and go somewhere else
instead of I might need to adapt, change, listen, be coachable,
those kinds of things that right now if they just
(11:43):
don't have to, and maybe it's not even them, maybe
it's somebody else in their ear, and you know that's
telling them they're the next best things in sliced bread.
But they're not a practice every day. They don't see
what we see. They have no idea how they might
even be struggling academically too, not just in basketball. But
that's where I think we're really good. Like I think
(12:04):
we're really good at what we do. I mean, I
know these two are. I feel like we're really good.
My staff is really good, and so let us work
and help these young people. I mean, we've been doing
it our entire life. I think we're pretty good at it.
But sometimes we're not allowed to do that because of
somebody else's opinion or outside influence. And that's where, going
(12:29):
back to what Coach said, we're probably not doing them,
we're doing them an injustice.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
I took me five and a half.
Speaker 8 (12:36):
Years to get out of college, you know, but I
had somebody late in my career that helped me get
through it, helped me learn, you know, and adapt. And
so again that's my perspective is probably a lot in that,
But I think that's part of the things that I
see with it. And I'm like Coach, we've got to
(12:57):
try to put a few boundaries on then you.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Just went through it personally. They talk about it.
Speaker 7 (13:04):
I think it's not just the one person player making
the decision, right. I do think it's a family decision
when it comes to uprooting your child to go to
another place for whatever reason, whether it's playing time, whatever
is well projected to be a start, or whatever whatever
it is. And I think, and that's what we deal
(13:26):
with on a daily basis. We don't just deal with
the player. We deal with parents, we deal with trainers,
we deal with agents, We deal with a whole slew
of people that make this decision to say, hey, this
isn't a place for you for whatever reason. I'm okay,
Like I really am okay, Like I want I want
lay to be great, right, even if it's not with us.
(13:48):
Go where you're happy, Like I've always said that to
to our players.
Speaker 6 (13:52):
You know, be where your mind is, Go where you're happy,
and don't look back. Right. I know what we're about.
I know what we produce.
Speaker 7 (14:01):
I know we do it in the fashion in which
has stay in power at the next level, Like we
produce pros.
Speaker 6 (14:07):
It is, it is the known thing.
Speaker 7 (14:10):
What that looks like through your process is probably a
little bit different, Like it's different for each and every
person for what they need. Some people listen a little
bit better, some people don't. It takes them a little
bit longer to understand what's happening. I you know the
transfer portal is out of control. I do think there
needs to be some parameters set. I am for giving
(14:34):
them a one time for you to go, second, third,
fourth time.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
They shouldn't.
Speaker 7 (14:38):
There shouldn't be with any any without just without some penalty,
right and sitting out. It will probably make them make
better decisions early, early in their careers, early, and and
they you should get it right with them, like like
two like two times right. It's it's called commitment. You
(15:01):
have to be committed, committed to the game.
Speaker 6 (15:05):
Right. And then for us, we don't.
Speaker 7 (15:08):
We don't lose a whole lot of recruit We don't
lose a whole lot of players off of our roster.
I think one because we are talking to parents, we're
talking to agents, we're talking to trainers, we're talking to everybody,
like we know everybody that has a voice in our
players heads. And it's really important that you get that.
And if if you come to terms with this isn't
(15:30):
the place for you, Okay, Okay, let's let's let's find
you another place. I'm all for Hey, let me let
me call coach like I we had two that transferred.
Let me help you. Let me like I call college coaches. Actually,
I told her tell the coaches to call me. If
you don't want to take the calls, I'll tell them, no,
(15:50):
you're not interested.
Speaker 6 (15:51):
I did all of that.
Speaker 7 (15:53):
Nobody really knows that I do that to help them
find their happy place. But it wasn't It wasn't my legies,
So it wasn't it wasn't her. But I mean, I
recruited them like they're a part of who I am.
I don't have any ill will towards anybody I got.
We got too many players that we got to take
care of ourselves that have ill will. I don't even
give any second thought because I'm so I'm so into
(16:16):
the team that I currently have.
Speaker 6 (16:20):
So I mean that the transfer.
Speaker 7 (16:21):
Portal does allow you to you know, does allow you
go in and get some some quality players, but you
also have to do your due diligence. You gotta look
at shooting percentage, you gotta look at you gotta break
it down, y'all going synergy and break their game down
to see if they fit. Because for for us, this
is it. You're you're we're bringing them into our family.
(16:42):
We're bringing them in to play a big role and
and on our team.
Speaker 6 (16:47):
But I will say this.
Speaker 7 (16:50):
The some of the new ones, the freshmen and the
new transfers. There's a there's a stark difference between like
mental strength and dealing with some stuff. I know it's
probably me and dealing with me and having the mental
fortitude to get through some stuff. I'm happy that the
people that we bring in can say it then actually
(17:13):
talk about it, like my confidence is shot, right, I'm
not feeling comfortable right because we have that kind of
atmosphere where you just say how you feel and then
we'll figure out how we make you feel better. But
confidence is something that we want you to want you
to lose. And it's just June. And it's just June
(17:34):
cause June you started August. We start in June, like
it's June. We just got together, Like you shouldn't even
be feeling this way. But I also tell them that, hey,
in games play how you play your natural instincts. In practice,
we probably need to stop and think about some things.
You know, your options, your awareness and all of that.
(17:55):
But in the games, you know, do you like do
you don't? Don't think twice, don't try to figure stuff out,
just work off instincts.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
I also think that the portal is teaching kids not
only not necessarily bad. Maybe bad is the wrong word,
but to me, you're running from the grind and it's
not just in sports. That's going to carry over in life.
And I feel like, you know, me was someone I
went to UCLA with back to back five five star
recruiting classes, the number one recruiting classes, back to back years,
and my freshmyear was up and down. My sophomore year
(18:25):
at the beginning was up and down, and then I
finally hit my stride halfway through my sophomore But I
know sitting on.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
That bench, I learned a lot and they'll lit that fire.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
And the adversity got me ready for the next level
because the next level is not like this.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
It's twists and turns. So I feel like just I
feel like a.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Lot of kids, whether it be bad people in their
ear or just don't like to really grind or push
through things like you're just running it. At some point
in your career or life, you're not going to be
able to run, and you've been running for so long
that you're not going to do when you can't.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
You don't know what to do when you can't run
no more, because I think.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
That's what we're talking about more than anything, is we're
not talking about the one time. I mean, I don't
want to be a hypocrite. I've got several transfers on
my team right now that are amazing. I mean that
are some of our leaders and you know, doing amazing thing.
I think we're really talking about that second, third, fourth
time that you're really just you know, chasing your tail,
so to speak. And I think that that needs to
(19:19):
be distinguished because there's a lot of kids who make,
you know, decisions that are best for them and and
I've been on the receiving end and I've been on the.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
Giving end of that.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
But I think it's more we're talking about the infrastructure
of the just go to the next thing and grassy
and green are where you you know, on the other side.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
Of the water where you water.
Speaker 6 (19:36):
The money might be money might Yeah, exactly, if.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
They put you on the curb Tuesday when trash come
and they put you back on that Thursday, you still trash.
I don't know where you go, You're gonna be trash.
You can't blame the program. It might be you.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
The growth of the Woman's game, it's been beautiful from
smashing college records to the w's growth. They're sitting down
for a new collective of arguing agreement. Unrivals popped up.
What have you guys seen in the transformation? Obviously you
guys were both former players in this women's game. Just
the growth of the game over the last handful of years.
Speaker 7 (20:11):
I think we've been held down for so many years,
so many decades, that that now cats out the bag
like it is.
Speaker 6 (20:19):
It is. It is high demand. I mean it is.
Speaker 7 (20:23):
Everybody wants to be It's a money making you can
make money off of women's basketball. These leagues are starting,
These leagues are super competitive. They're going after each players.
The wnbas is hyper competitive. I think now is the
time I think college college women's college basketball is.
Speaker 6 (20:44):
Is that an all time high?
Speaker 7 (20:46):
And I still don't think we get what we deserve
from a from a television deal, Like, we don't get
what we deserve. We aren't what we were when we
signed the deal. We are not where we are. I'm
a proponent for going back to ESPN, say hey, it's
worth the conversation. We are not like give us our
(21:08):
give us, give us some of what you you know
is happening out there and and and see where it is.
The only thing they can say is no. But and
they probably will say no because they've already said no.
We expand our our n C Double A tournament. They
were like, we're not, We're not giving you more money
(21:29):
for the games. We will televise the games. When I
get where they where do they do that at football?
If they're gonna pay another SEC game? Oh oh oh,
so why treat us any differently?
Speaker 6 (21:43):
You know? So?
Speaker 7 (21:45):
I mean, I mean Corey was the president of our
of our association. She's got all the all the nuggets
that that that you will want to know about and
how we got to where we are and where we
where we need to go and we have to prepare
for our next move.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Well, I think the huge pieces that what you said
is that it's not a title nine box to check anymore.
It is a really wise business venture that is worth
investing in. And I don't think some for instance, the
TV deal that happened, you're not going to get any
different treatment on campus. If let's say the men, you
get all this you know, reward financially for the men
(22:24):
going far in the NCAA tournament because their TV deal
is totally different, so they're able to have a unit
distribution that promotes the growth of that sport and protecting that.
But now we're at a point where our viewership is
up the ad business and for the first time ever,
you know Internet, you know, brand marketing deals are higher
than that's the tipping point, than the traditional ad space
(22:48):
on TV, and women are killing in that space, and
so that all those things surrounding it's time that we
go back and go, Okay, wait, the landscape has changed here.
Speaker 6 (22:58):
What do we have to do to cont you.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
To invest in the sport not out of a charity,
because it is earned, it's the right to be a
really good investment. And until we do that, you're putting
universities who are under incredible pressure with all of the
changes that we've had, that they're not going to have
the same commitment to continue to grow the sport and
uplift it because there's not the infrastructure that rewards them
(23:23):
for doing so.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Today's price is not yesterday's.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
It's going on.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
You know, Even with me being a professional athlete played basketball,
I have to admit I watch women's basketball in the
last three years more than I watch NBA anything college too.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
It's college basketball too. There's a lot incitement around the
w but to me at the college, there's nothing better.
And you guys are kind of stowing the crown from
the men's like the women's tournament is mustards and the numbers,
the numbers don't lie.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
The numbers say it too.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Coach Close, you've been the head coach at UCLA for
fifteen years now, Historically great men's program come off the
heels with what you guys accompassed last year, the excitement
around campus. I've got a chance to go to your
guys game and the men's game, and your guys' shit
is jumping, Like did you ever.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Think it would?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Obviously the goal was to get here, but now that
you're here, with the excitement and having everyone behind you,
how does.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
That feel amazing?
Speaker 3 (24:16):
You know, I think especially in LA where everyone said, oh,
you can't do it in LA there's too much to
compete with or those kinds of things. Even you know,
credit to even our rivals across town to have two
of the best teams in the country right there, committed
to growing the sport in LA. At the same time,
it's been really fun. But I don't think you know.
I mean, you know this. I just love basketball and
(24:40):
I want this. There's sometimes a sense of as women's
basketball grows, we're trying to take something away from men's basketball.
Speaker 6 (24:47):
No or not, we love the game.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
And so like to celebrate that in light of the
history of what we walk in in CLA. There's a
great humility for me every time I walk down the
hallway of our games and I see your picture up,
I see the banners up, I see all the different
people that blaze the trail that I get to walk in,
and so it's very humbling but really exciting, and I
(25:10):
feel a great sense of responsibility to continue to pour in,
to invest in the in the women, and to leave
it better than I found it.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
Anybody that thinks women's basketball evolving and going up it's
taken away from men's anything as a moron.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I mean, I think just we live basketball.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
We live in a society now where everyone wants you
to choose multiple things can be true and multiple things
to be entertaining. Nil agents, kids marketing making hundreds of thousands,
even millions of dollars. Coach Viga, I want you to
take this one. What has it been like coaching and recruiting.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
But how has it changed?
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Obviously, you guys have all been in this game for
a long time, whether it be playing you're playing first
and then and now coaching. But just the simple, the
simple simplicity of recruiting now I'm sure has changed.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
And and and how you have to coach.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
I coach au high school boys, and it's just the
way I used to get yelled and cust that, and
it was you had to take it. Now if you
do that, they're out of here. So how have you
guys just kind of changed your overall philosophy while still
keeping your morals and principles and and and and the
right stuff. You know, you still need, no matter if
these kids want to hear it or not.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
There's a lot of that question.
Speaker 8 (26:31):
Go ahead, Nick, Yeah, Well, let's be honest. We're we're
pro coaches now, I mean, whether we want to be
or not. It's still not something I'm real comfortable with
at all because it's just something that I we didn't
do for so many years.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
And now all of a sudden, you.
Speaker 8 (26:51):
Talk about numbers to recruits.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
I think one of the things that.
Speaker 8 (26:58):
Y'all might not be a whereof that would just shock
you is what a kid might think they're worth. They
played somewhere one year, played five minutes a game and
averaged two points a game.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
And they're asking, hey, I.
Speaker 8 (27:12):
Got to have that position. Let me check on them
and see and they're you're just astonished at what the
number is, Like it just it would blow you away,
like really, like I'm it is. But I have a GM.
You know, I have a business lady in town that's
created her own business solder. She's retired. She serves on
(27:34):
three national boards all over the country. That's her job.
So she spends a lot of time with me. And
you know, we all have a salary cap. I mean,
we're all here because we're trying to increase our cap
right at the at the event we're in and but
it's I mean we're we're we are literally having to
(27:57):
manage and it's dickating. And I tell my administration this.
You want to tell your administration something. Look, if we
can't get that person because of the number, well then
you need to tell me now and I'll stop recruiting
numbers one through twenty five. I need to start recruiting
(28:19):
number sixty five through one thirty because they're a different
number than one through twenty five. That's the truth of
the matter. And if you want us to be good,
which we three are lucky to be at places where
women's basketball is really important, it is and our administrations
have obviously invested in us, as Coach was talking about,
(28:45):
and we've proven them right, I mean the proofs in
the pudding.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
But that's that's.
Speaker 8 (28:56):
The truth of the matter. If we're all going to
conte to try to compete for national championships, which I'm
telling you at Texas that's all they care about, then
if we're going to live in that neighborhood, it's going
to take this number.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
Stay there now. If you're not.
Speaker 8 (29:16):
If we don't have that, well, then don't hold me
to that because I can't live there. I got to
live over here, exactly, and then I'll stop wasting my
time and my staff will stop wasting their time recruiting
in that neighborhood because we ain't getting that kid, and
that unfortunately for us, and I believe it for all
(29:37):
three of us, we're still.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
Again.
Speaker 8 (29:41):
I've watched her teams from Afar, I live with her.
I believe we are too far down. I won't speak
for Coach, but I'm too far down the road to change.
We are about relationships. Like my staff works really hard
in recruiting. We are about relationships. Yes, at some point
in the recruiting process we're going to talk about a number.
(30:04):
That is very true. But I still believe in women's
basketball there is a parent parents that are in trusting
you with their daughter. I don't think at the end
of the day, a number is going to trump whether
they think you're going to take care of their kid
or not. I don't think you can put a value,
you know, a number. Like I got kids of my own,
(30:25):
there's no number that they're worth. They are in you know,
the numbers infinite. And so for us, we work really
hard on the on the relationship piece. But and so
this is today's world, you know, this is what.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
We live in.
Speaker 8 (30:40):
And again, I'm so fortunate to have Miss Lisa because she,
you know, she kind of keeps me within that that range.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
That we have to live in. I mean, it's not
it's not. There is an end to it.
Speaker 7 (30:54):
Yeah, regardless of the money, you don't you don't you
don't coach the money you're coaching, and you.
Speaker 6 (31:00):
Don't even think about the money.
Speaker 7 (31:02):
You really don't even think about the money when you're coaching,
because it looks sound feel like something looks sounds and
feels off. You know, I'm too old and not say
anything good or bad, good or bad like like it's.
Speaker 8 (31:15):
Well, we're just too far down the road. If we've
done and how we've done it has been successful, yes,
like I wouldn't know how to do it any other way.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
Broke, don't fix it.
Speaker 7 (31:23):
Yeah, now there's some things I won't I'm not dealing.
I mean I know that I'm not fighting like I'm not.
I'm not fighting the social media piece. That's how they
make their money, right, I'm not fighting that piece. They
need their phones. I think they would be they would
be worse without their phones.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
You pop up on the TikTok every now and then
with them.
Speaker 7 (31:43):
Why not where they are meaning when they are, meaning
where they are, And but you're not, you're not we're
not coaching the money like we got a home for
the money.
Speaker 6 (31:53):
We gotta we gotta build a roster.
Speaker 7 (31:55):
But when it's all said and done, like I don't
even think I get mad and say.
Speaker 6 (32:01):
You're not worth that, You're not worth that?
Speaker 7 (32:03):
Every day like your your standards are too low for
you to get that money. I don't even think I
think about those things. It's just if your standards low today,
we got we gotta get you to your standard. Money
doesn't Money doesn't come in in the play. Money only
comes into play. You sit down with them and and
they say yes, or they say maybe. If they say maybe,
(32:26):
they're shopping it all to somebody else, and you have
to deal with that aspect of it. So it's it's
I I like it though. I like the challenge of
figuring it out, the challenge of, you know, put the
team together, and and and and I'm a I'm.
Speaker 6 (32:45):
A believer in this.
Speaker 7 (32:47):
I'll let a good recruit go right, not have a
good time, have a circle back.
Speaker 6 (32:53):
They're cheaper that.
Speaker 7 (32:54):
Way, they're cheaper. They're cheaper because they're not getting what
they want. They're not getting they're getting closer to John
to be a pro. And then we're like, oh, okay,
well I stacked it. Let me go get these skills
set and let me go get this knowledge and mindset
so I can have some longevity in the league.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
I think that the key factor is how do we
stay competitive, adjusting the new landscape and stay mission minded
at the same time, and there's I think we're all
figuring it as we go, you know, but I think
there's some non negotiables. For me, the standard of excellence
can't change, so the landscape has changed, so I got
to adapt and I do.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
Don.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
I think you're brilliant at meeting people where they are
and it's been an inspiration to me, and I think,
so we have to be willing to adapt. But the
standard can't change. The standard is the standard. And so
now though, how do you do that? Because money does
bring in a different thing you're competing with from a
value standpoint, an entitlement standpoint. Where did you get your
(33:58):
value from? And so for me, the big challenges I
agree with Don that there's more pluses than minuses. It's challenging.
I think there's things we have to guard against, but
we can't complain about it. And then when it comes
these student athletes are getting these opportunities and then you know,
change the script, so to speak. So I think it's
(34:18):
just really important that we find ways to be competitive
in the landscape. I think we do need structure in
this area too, Like what does a salary cap really mean? Well,
it means there's something different at every place in every conference,
and so what could that look like? But also how
do we stay mission minded and really coach people's hearts?
You know, coach wouldn't I had the unbelievable opportunity to
(34:41):
be mentored by him for fifteen years, and one of
the things he's told He told me was, remember Corey,
you're not coaching people's jump shots, You're coaching people's hearts.
But he would say, but if you coach their hearts
really well, usually their jump shot ends up pretty good too.
And for me, add money or not, I just have
to remind myself I'm still coaching people's hearts.
Speaker 7 (35:00):
And for the record, like we talked to each other
for the greater good of our game.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
I called her at the final four and said, hey,
do you think this kid's.
Speaker 6 (35:07):
Worth that I did? I did work?
Speaker 7 (35:11):
I mean because we're we are in it together, like
like you may. Of course, we want to give young
people their work, but sometimes that number is ha and
the production is low.
Speaker 6 (35:26):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Jack and I both played AU and put our kids
through AU. I think the landscape looks a lot different
than it used to do. We need to think, rethink
what our youth basketball system looks like anybody could take that.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Let me pray about that. Amen, Yes, I just I
just think that we got to look at the whole
what's happening in our world, you know, what's happening internationally,
what's happening in the pros, the NBA, the w n
b A, and look at the trends of where our
game is going. And I think then we have to
go look back to what how are we training our
kids up to it ready for this the trends of
(36:02):
where the game is going. And so I think there's
way more good than bad in the system. But I
do think if we're going to continue to lead in
the US, especially on the women's side, where we have
such a long tradition, that just like the men have experienced,
the gap has closed, you know, and now and the
gap is closing for the women too. And so I
(36:24):
think how we structure youth leagues, how we bring the
joy of the game. There's a lot of competition for
youth sports, you know, and volleyball I think for the
first time had as many or more participants in the
women's side and the in the youth leagues as basketball.
Speaker 6 (36:40):
So I think that you.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Know, we do need to really look at where are
the trends of the game from an international perspective as
well as a pro perspective, and then reverse engineer how
we equip our young people in the grassroots level and
youth basketball.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
There's a lot of them are more concerned with what
the game can do for them than loving the game.
Like we tell when we grow up, all we have
that was outside parks and playing basketball. I think we
couldn't afford trainers, we couldn't board other gyms.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
We have to do with what was in front of us,
and you learned a whole lot.
Speaker 5 (37:08):
They fall in love to what the game can give
them instead of fall in love with the game of basketball.
I tell kids, y'all, don't understand like we played basketball
the eighteen nineteen years for free just because.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
You love the game.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Maybe got some shit to get.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
To up there when we can make money, you know
what I mean?
Speaker 6 (37:22):
They don't pick.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Up, do you guys? See it?
Speaker 1 (37:26):
On the women's side because they can I coach and
have kids and and and pay attention. On the men's side,
I feel like this generation is very skilled, but they
lack the IQ and don't know how to play without
the ball and all that. Do you guys feel that
on your side as well?
Speaker 6 (37:38):
They don't play enough pick up to pick up or
what on want?
Speaker 7 (37:42):
You learn toughness, you learn, you learn how to have
thick skin. You learn to maneuver what works, what doesn't work.
You know, you learn the trash talking. You learn all
of those things while you're playing pick up. Like our
first championship team never played pickup like in the summer.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
That's crazy, I remembers.
Speaker 7 (38:06):
I mean that's competition. Yeah, Like if you're competitive, you
won't you won't.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Hey, that's how you work on your game. Whatever you're
working on works.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Yes, there's a great story with the NBA runs at UCLA.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
I was about to go there, but go ahead, take it,
take it well.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
I mean, Earl Watson has this great story where one
of his teammates from college was coming to him and saying, Hey,
I get to the last cut in the.
Speaker 6 (38:32):
League and I keep getting cut, I keep getting cut.
How come you always make You've been in the league.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
You weren't even that, you weren't a five star guy,
and you know you you've been in the league twelve
thirteen years. How'd you do that? He goes, I'll tell
you you'll stick on a team when you can do one thing.
And he goes, well, what is it? He goes, you
got to go and win three games in a row?
Speaker 6 (38:51):
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Stay on the center court, in the center court.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Stay on the center court means you keep winning and
you can't and you can do it without scoring. And
so that's what earle knew how to do, is he
would play on the center court and he would look
around and go, who's on my team?
Speaker 4 (39:07):
What do I have?
Speaker 3 (39:08):
And I'm going to make sure we win and I
don't ever have to shoot. And you know, tell me
if I got that wrong. But I just think how
you can affect winning looks like so many other ways.
And when you learn that.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
Karen can affect the game, Yeah, totally just caring. I
don't seem care enough.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
That's where I was going with it.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
Don't tell Texas to care to.
Speaker 7 (39:34):
It's terms like young people have terms and conditions on
you know, how they how they how they.
Speaker 6 (39:40):
See things right, the entitlement.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
Because they got no depth to it. Like the pickup
part just really gets me. You you you you learn depth,
you learn about all those things that you need how
to you know, see if your stuff works and then
you you can you can really rely on that, like
(40:08):
you we don't know, Like you know, Raven, Raven's been
in the gym all summer long, right all summer alone.
Speaker 6 (40:14):
Now, Raven feels.
Speaker 7 (40:15):
Like she should be able to see her stuff every game,
like like she should score every game. But if you're not,
if you haven't scored every game for a certain part
of your college career, it's going to be up and
down to you fit until you figure it out. But
just because you're not scoring, it can't impact the other
(40:37):
parts that are so valuable to your game.
Speaker 6 (40:41):
So and I just tell the trust, well, your work,
Trust your work. Just trust your work.
Speaker 7 (40:47):
You put it in, it's done already, it's done, you
did it over trust it on a daily basis.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
I was just gonna add to that with a I
think if you don't put in that work and that
creativity that happens, it's they end up coming into your
season wanting to treat it like a scientific formula instead
of an art project or a painting to paint. And
I don't think basketball is a scientific formula. And I
think if you haven't failed and been creative or oh
I want to try that move I've been working on.
(41:17):
And you don't do that and pick up in the summer,
You're not.
Speaker 6 (41:19):
Ever going to do it.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
And the lights are no, no, the lights are bright.
Speaker 6 (41:23):
And so you know, I just do it. It's not
gonna look good.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
Well that's true, that's true. So I just think you
losing the whole fun of it, you know, And well,
why play it like a like you're in a lab.
Let's play it like you're have an exquisite painting.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
I think that was one of my biggest gifts and
the reason why I was able to play fifteen professionally
was because of the men's gym in the summertime and
coming in there as an eighteen year old playing against
Kobe and Paul and t Mac and Shack and you
name it. We may think we're okay, we're doing our thing,
but this is where we're trying to go and look
what they're doing, you know what I mean. So I
just think that that the pick up. I mean again,
(41:58):
I'm a dad too, so it's just like I have
to call around and get the gym, and hey, hit
all your homeboys and tell them I'll get the Joab
paid for the gym for two hours, and you gotta
just go get every.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
When you can to play.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Like we we found the gym, we found the park,
we found somewhere to play. But now it's almost like
you really have to spoon feed them. And then one
more thing I'll say as a coach getting high school
kids ready for the pros, everyone thinks they have to score,
and I'm just like, there's so many more ways to
get recruited outside of scoring, because a lot of you
guys scoring twenty points may not be even an option
on your college team.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
So how can you affect the.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Game If the best thing you can do isn't working,
the best thing you can do on the court isn't working,
house can you affect the game? So just kind of
to trigger their mind and spark their minds to think
that there's just so much more to whatever your specialty is.
They if I take that away tonight, how can you
still help me win the game?
Speaker 5 (42:41):
And the landscape with the NBA is too like they
want one dimensional guys that's good at one thing.
Speaker 4 (42:46):
So don't think you're just going to come in.
Speaker 5 (42:47):
And shoot all the balls because you got guys that's
getting paid to do shooting. You got a guy getting
paid the rebound, so you're not gonna be able to
do all that.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
You gotta find out what you're good at being start
the role and they don't want to stow coach.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
The Knicks reached out to you. How did that go
and what was that process? What was that process?
Speaker 4 (43:07):
Like we would have fell out?
Speaker 7 (43:10):
Well one, I've known Leon and Worldwide West for thirty years.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
Yeap.
Speaker 6 (43:16):
Like Leon called me and I'm like, what's up, Leon?
This is out?
Speaker 7 (43:20):
He was like, hey, you know thinking about you know,
I want to bring you into the interview.
Speaker 6 (43:26):
I'm like, come on, Leon, exactly, come on. Like He's like, no,
I'm serious, I'm serious. I'm serious.
Speaker 7 (43:33):
So I had to go to New York for something
and I told him I am gonna be in New York.
He's like, you know, come to my apartment. Let's let's
talk a little bit. And he was like really serious
about it. I was like, well, how did you How
did you come to put me on your list? And
he showed me the book, He showed me the list
of coaches. He just said, basically, you have what we need,
(43:56):
your collaborative with people like we need that in the
front office. We need that, we need our basketball in
our front office, you know, to have to be integrated
and work collaboratively. So and then we set up a
meeting to do the interview. Did the interview was six hours.
It was whiteboard. It was just talking and how you
(44:18):
get players to to to.
Speaker 6 (44:23):
Play at a high level.
Speaker 7 (44:25):
And I and I actually asked them some questions. And
I thought the questions that I asked them, they really
didn't know the answers because it's not a normal question
for them, like how would how would me being the
Knicks head coach affect your job? Your job, your job,
your job being a woman, being a black woman, because
(44:46):
you're gonna you're gonna be asked questions that you never
had to answer because it because it again, first a
three game losing Street, I mean three game losing streak,
five game lovers Street. It is different than I'm the coach.
Then what a male coach? I mean, it happens all
the time in the league. They're not asked certain questions.
(45:06):
They're not they're not it's about can they coach or not?
Like it would be more about a female coach, it
would be more about anything other than this, she qualified
and she like all of those things not not their norm.
So I don't I don't think they were ready for that.
And I do think that if you're going to hire
a female coach, you have to plan for that. It's
(45:29):
not an you interview them, Oh they have the job,
and then you're planning as you're as you're doing.
Speaker 6 (45:34):
Is to me, it doesn't work that way.
Speaker 7 (45:38):
You gotta have the mindset to actually really get behind
a female coach and give her what she needs to
be successful.
Speaker 5 (45:45):
It been a lot you had to deal with that
they didn't have a wall up for, especially dealing with
the media space.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
So I understand exactly what.
Speaker 6 (45:52):
All of that.
Speaker 4 (45:53):
Yeah, how you're going to have her first argument with
a teammate? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
It was, Yes, we appreciate everyone's time. Last question of
the day, and I'll start with you, Vic. If a
high school kid is watching this, or even maybe another
kid at a program, what is one piece of advice
you would give them?
Speaker 4 (46:17):
I think listen to the.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Podcast that I like that. I like that.
Speaker 8 (46:25):
I mean there's been a lot of information coach close
and they're just you know, they've been doing it a
long time. I've been doing it forty one years. I think,
you know, the advice that's been given within the context
of this whole thing. We've talked about a lot of
things that for an eighteen year old, I think they
(46:46):
can go off of. But I think the biggest thing
again is, I know you can get caught up in
some things, but you need to stay grounded with what's
really important. Be somewhere where you feel like you're going
to be developed, Be somewhere where you're gonna be loved,
Be somewhere where you're going to have great role models,
(47:09):
great great you know, mentors as a young woman.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
And I think.
Speaker 8 (47:15):
Both of these coaches myself, you know, we're at places
where I feel like, you know, kids are going to
get that. And for me, I you know, my daughter
played for me and when she was you know, in
high school, she could go a lot of places and
won a lot of games. I could have cared less
about that. I want her to be somewhere where she
was going to have great role models, female role models,
(47:38):
great mentors, and be developed and be taken care of,
because at the end of the day, we have people's children,
we have their daughters, and so you know, that's my
advice and the rest will come. I mean, you have
your whole life, but the next four years are really important.
(48:01):
They're really important, and you know, to be at one
of our places, and there's a lot of places around
the country that are really good. I think, you know,
that's where you got to. You got to you got
to really.
Speaker 4 (48:17):
Trust.
Speaker 8 (48:17):
You're gonna have to trust somebody. You know, some mom
and dad's gonna have to trust, you know, a coach,
trust somebody, and so you know, do your homework and
and get to know people.
Speaker 4 (48:29):
You know.
Speaker 8 (48:30):
Again, I think for us, it's still about relationships at
the end of the day. Yeah, man, we're you watch
any of our teams, man, our teams are they play hard?
You know, they play really hard. I've I've coach, I
have played against coaches teams. We've scrimmaged each other in
the early sorry obviously I've I've had to coach against
(48:53):
her and and play her teams. And our teams play
so hard. And I think when the games over, I
think all three of us, if that's what they said
about our team, man, you got a tough, physical, aggressive
basketball team, I think we'd probably be good.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
And that don't say anything about your jump, no mindset it.
Speaker 8 (49:15):
Just but I think if that's what they say about
our teams, I'm good. I'm gonna play her tomorrow. Whatever
happens when the game's over. If I go to locker room,
go man, we played our guts out. I'm good.
Speaker 4 (49:29):
I'm good.
Speaker 8 (49:29):
We have to play our guts out, you know when
we play teams like this and obviously playing South Carolina
every year when I was at Misissippi State, now at Texas, Baby,
you better play your guts out or it ain't gonna
be much fun. We're like, our guts out tomorrow or
it ain't gonna be much Fun's got a great team.
So I think that's my my thought process and my
(49:52):
message because again, you're gonna have a lot of people
you know in your ears and you've got to be
able to You've got to be able to sift through
some of that and you need some guidance.
Speaker 6 (50:05):
He said it at the end.
Speaker 4 (50:06):
Trust.
Speaker 7 (50:06):
You got to be able to trust who you're in
trusting your career with, like really trust them. And it's
not you just can't put the onus on the coach, right,
it is a relationship. You're in a relationship with your coach.
And coaches. That means when something doesn't feel right to you,
(50:28):
you got to be able to speak up because we
can't read your minds, although we can meet you where
you are on any given day, but you got to
trust that person enough to say, hey, this doesn't sound
right to me, I'm not feeling right.
Speaker 6 (50:40):
Can you help me?
Speaker 7 (50:41):
Like you have to be able to do that, and
I think part of that is get in to know
who you are, your authentic self, your vulnerable self, your downfalls, right,
what your strength and your weakness is, all of that
as a person, and that is the time that that
that is growth. Time you're making the most transformational you know,
(51:03):
these are the most transformational years of your life in college.
And if you can't have a conversation with your college
coach about what's happening with you, good, bad, are and different.
I'll just say this, young people, young people, we've been
coaching so long that there are no new problems. There
are no new problems, but we've never seen a hundred
(51:26):
times we've dealt with it at all. So just bring
it to us, you know, don't be embarrassed. Somebody's been
through it. Somebody's have been through it.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Let us help you.
Speaker 6 (51:35):
Let us help you. We're your biggest resource.
Speaker 7 (51:38):
And if you don't, and I do think that that
can help with someone what's happening in the transfer portal
part or that is just miscommunication, misconception and.
Speaker 6 (51:48):
Untruths like imagine, like made up stuff.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
I think bottom line is what really lasts, you know,
Like I think about if I was coaching.
Speaker 8 (51:57):
Your boys, what would you want from me?
Speaker 3 (52:00):
You know, and you would want me to give them
something that lasts, and you know, I think that the
reality is the average Division one basketball player spends over
thirty five hundred hours in their sport over four years,
and only four percent of those are in games four percent.
But what's recruiting all about? Outcomes? And the ninety six
percent and now money, And I think that it's just
(52:21):
really got to be I had a UCLA men's basketball
lum and our mental conditioning coach at the time, Joshua Medcalf,
come into our team and say, what are the things
they are going to be with you for the rest
of your life from these four years? And I remember
that time Jordan Canada was said, I want.
Speaker 6 (52:37):
A banner, baby, I want that banner to.
Speaker 3 (52:38):
Be in the gym and he goes, man, I can't
wait to be at that Banner ceremony, but the reality
is Banner's hanging gyms.
Speaker 6 (52:45):
And then someone else said.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
Hey, I want a ring, baby, and I want that ring.
I want it shiny, and he said, I cannot wait
for that to be a byproduct of your process and
your work. But rings collect dust. So the only two
things that will stay with you for the rest of
your life from these four years is who you become
and who you impact. You get to keep those forever.
And so when I just think about the advice of
(53:08):
that is just whatever you're gonna do, make decisions based
on something you want to have for a long time,
because otherwise the outcomes are just a distraction.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
Well, Thank you guys, Thank you for the players, Air
for hosting us. Make sure you guys tune in to
the tournament on TNT, True TV.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
And HBO Max.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
Thank you see all these teams in action. Best of
luck to everybody, and thank you for tuning in. That's
to wrap all the smoke. You can catch this on
what is It, DraftKings Network and all Smoke productions you too.
We'll see you guys next week.
Welcome back to all the smoke, coming to you guys
live from Las Vegas, the Players Era Tournament fed out
to the MGM MGM Grand It's been a great time
we've had this last of our three days and we've
been able to sit down with the men's side, and
it's only right now that we're able to sit down
with some of the leading coaches in the women's space.
Fun fact, we're looking at the number two, the number three,
(00:22):
and the number four team in the country right now,
so we're well represented with talent. Without further ado, I'm
going to introduce no bias to my favorite person on
the panel right here to my left, my bruined sister
fifteen years at UCLA All Conference point guard, herself at
Santa Barbara Rating Coach of the Year coach Corey Close.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Thank you for your talk, thank you for having.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Us, Thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Next to her, we got the man himself, Vick Schaeffer,
head coach at the University of Texas, six years a
Longhorns coach, four time SEC Coach of the Year.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Welcome to the show, Coach, and.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Last and not least, Jack's favorite person outside of his
children in the world. Gold medalist, three time n C
double a champ, four time Coach of the Year, five
straight Final four appearances, done so much outside of the game,
outside of coaching.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Welcome to the show, Don Staley.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
And I wore her number my rookie year. Yes. Great,
this is.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
The first time you guys actually got a chance to
meet in person to right.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Can I tell you when I tell you? When I
tell you, like when it comes to groupie status, he's.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Your biggest grippet.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I'm real.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
Let's talk about mindset. All three of you were in
the Final four last year but fell short.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
We talk a.
Speaker 6 (01:43):
Lot about yeah, exactly, talk.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
About basketball today, about competing and that's some of the
hardest things that coaches say to get to get the
kids to compete. Talk about the mindset and coming back
after losing, but also coming in this season to try
to get back to that point.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
You first, I.
Speaker 7 (02:01):
Mean, once you get a taste of the Final four one,
you know what it takes to get there. Once you
get a taste of winning a national championship, you know
exactly what to do and you just kind of it's
not a repeat because all teams are come in a
little different but you know, you have to have this,
(02:22):
this or that or else you really aren't going to
get there. And I'll say this, once you've experienced winning
a national championship, it's hard, but it's a little easier
to win it again again because you know, I said,
for seventeen years of coaching, seventeen I try to get
young people to come help us win a national championship.
Speaker 6 (02:45):
Not knowing how hard it is, and.
Speaker 7 (02:48):
Looking back on it, I sold them a dream because
it was hard, Like when we won it and we
found out how we won. Those probably fifteen first years
of coaching didn't have a shot. We didn't have a shot.
So it's just getting young people to buy in. It's
total buy in. It is showing them that they individually
(03:11):
can get better, right because they want to see their progress.
They want to see their their selfish like that, and
they should be selfish like that because we got winning
programs and we're gonna win a lot of basketball games.
But they want to see their progress. So blending the two,
having each equally as important as the overall achievement of
the team really makes them get into knowing that they
(03:34):
play a visable role in our success.
Speaker 8 (03:37):
Coat Yeah, I can remember in twenty eleven, winning it
in Indianapolis and having green and blue confetti fall on
us because they had planned on Notre Dame bars. Wow,
but just knowing how hard it was. You know, we
had to we upset Stanford in the semis, a great
(03:58):
team that Tara had, and then had to go beat
a really good, really the hometown team, and that feeling
as coach was talking about knowing how hard it is
to get there, I think it's been my experience. I
think it's harder to win that Elite eight game really
than any of them. In seventeen, when we went to
(04:19):
the Final four and beat you know, Connecticut in the Semis,
we were so gassed. I felt bad because I I
had already played Don three times I think that year,
and you know, we had gotten out of the arena
that night from an overtime game. We walked into the
Los Anatole at one twenty in the morning and there
(04:41):
were five thousand people waiting on us from Missipy State,
and that was you know, I hated that we didn't
win the national championship, but for those kids to have
that experience, and I think that's what these coaches, myself,
it's just having your kids experience something that great. But man,
it is really first of all, winning is really hard.
(05:04):
Winning at that level is extremely hard, and it's just
it takes so much. Part of it is matchups when
the bracket comes out, you got to have a little luck,
and you got to get hot, you know. To me,
those are kind of the three things that happened that
time of year. And like, these two have such great
(05:26):
teams right now, but they've had some great teams in
the past that maybe even didn't get there. But that's
how hard it is to get there. And once you
experience it. I've experienced it last year with Texas for
the first time, and I know Coach had a heck
of a team last year. And to get those kids there,
(05:46):
I mean when we got done, you know, I got
Madison Booker and Rory Harmon telling me, Coach, I want
to do that again. You know we're And so now
you get a little bit of player lied involvement where
they're like, hey, guys, we know what it tastes like,
we know what it takes. It starts in August for
us on the track, you know, for others it may
(06:09):
start all the way back in the summer, you know,
but it is a long, hard grind to get there.
But you just got to embrace that. And your kids
have you know, we all have highly motivated kids. I
know both of these coaches have incredible competitors and you
have to have you have to be a competitive nut. Really,
(06:32):
I mean, you do. I know these coaches are, you know,
and I know that we have players that are like that,
and that's what it takes. I mean, they just they
embrace how hard it is, you know, because it is
it is really hard.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
You said mindset, you know, and I think that that's
a huge piece that I'm a big believer is that
you never outperform your self image. And so you know,
the difference for us in this journey right now. That
was our first final four last year, and I think
that no matter what you said, there was a sense of,
oh my gosh, we just have to get to the
final four, even if you didn't say that out loud.
(07:08):
And I think now there's a sense of expectancy that
we don't just deserve to be in the final four,
that we now have a taste of what it takes
that we believe we can win it. And you know,
and I do agree with everything they said. I think
that it's just it really is more about we all
have really talented teams, we all are really competitive people.
But to have a team that has the mindset and
(07:28):
competitive spirit to be able to sustain that grind that
VIC talked about, and then to believe that they belong
and that they should win it and that they're built
for it. And I think the journey to get them
to that mindset might be the hardest but most rewarding part.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
How are you three dealing with the big TP transfer portal?
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Okay, well, I think the transfer portal's here to stay.
But we need boundaries, Yes, we need we need an
infrastructure that. Look any major business, none of them have
no boundaries. There's none of them that say, oh, just
do whatever you want, whenever you want. I mean, there's
no there's no industry that that's at the highest levels
(08:12):
that operates in that way. And so I'm a big
believer that you know, the transfer portal, there's a place
for that, and it's it's there's a healthy and good
part of that. But we need boundaries, and I would
be in favor of the first time you can play
right away. After that you got to go back to
sitting out a year as a starting point. But what
(08:33):
we're doing right now is not in line. If you
go to the NCAA website, not that that's a really
good place to go, but that you know that you
talk about the mission of what we're trying to do,
it's not in line with the mission of what we
say we want to do to affect kids' lives, let
alone have competitive equity, let alone be preparing them for
(08:54):
the next levels. I don't think it serves the kids,
the universities, or the co which is very well at all.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
Yeah, and just my point, I think I see walt
kids jumping in the transport porter because they've powered. It's
not because they're not in a great situation. It's not
because they're not getting coached. It's because it's just powdering.
Is that true, that's what it looks like.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Well, I think it can be. I think there's a
various amount of reasons. But I think that we're letting
entitlement and how they feel now get in the way
of what they can become leader. And that's a travesty
in my mind.
Speaker 8 (09:27):
A couple of things.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
You know.
Speaker 8 (09:31):
The thing I'm experiencing, especially when you might take a
young lady that's maybe been playing three years. You know,
And and I'm going to say this on the back end,
if you'll look at and see what's happening in football
this year with some really good coaches that aren't employed
right now. We're trying to take a kid that maybe
(09:53):
has obviously already played a high school career, they've already
played some of it, played three and maybe a fourth
year as red shirt, and on paper they might look like, man,
they're really good, and then we get them and it's
the old We're trying to teach an old dog new
tricks in about a six month period, and it is
(10:16):
really hard to change, you know, to get them to
play in whatever our system is. It's hard to get
them to do that. And when I see what's happening
in football with some of these coaches, they didn't just
wake up Saturday morning become a bad coach.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
But I think.
Speaker 8 (10:33):
They're experience in it where they've had to take they've
not had to maybe they've lost kids or whatever, kids
have moved on. They've taken some kids out of the Portland.
They think, man, they're really good. They came from a
great program, but now all of a sudden their system
might not fit that kid, and so now all of
a sudden they're struggling. They lose three games, the next
(10:55):
thing you know, they're out on their rear. And so
I think that piece and then the question that you ask,
I've watched her program from AFAR. Obviously we're not close,
but I've seen hers up close and in person. I
think it's fair to say that I'm demanding and don't
apologize for that. I've seen done in action. She's demanding,
(11:19):
and she doesn't apologize for that. And I think that
the thing that's happening, going back to what coach said,
is they just wake up one morning sometimes and they
just want to take their ball and go somewhere else
instead of I might need to adapt, change, listen, be coachable,
those kinds of things that right now if they just
(11:43):
don't have to, and maybe it's not even them, maybe
it's somebody else in their ear, and you know that's
telling them they're the next best things in sliced bread.
But they're not a practice every day. They don't see
what we see. They have no idea how they might
even be struggling academically too, not just in basketball. But
that's where I think we're really good. Like I think
(12:04):
we're really good at what we do. I mean, I
know these two are. I feel like we're really good.
My staff is really good, and so let us work
and help these young people. I mean, we've been doing
it our entire life. I think we're pretty good at it.
But sometimes we're not allowed to do that because of
somebody else's opinion or outside influence. And that's where, going
(12:29):
back to what Coach said, we're probably not doing them,
we're doing them an injustice.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
I took me five and a half.
Speaker 8 (12:36):
Years to get out of college, you know, but I
had somebody late in my career that helped me get
through it, helped me learn, you know, and adapt. And
so again that's my perspective is probably a lot in that,
But I think that's part of the things that I
see with it. And I'm like Coach, we've got to
(12:57):
try to put a few boundaries on then you.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Just went through it personally. They talk about it.
Speaker 7 (13:04):
I think it's not just the one person player making
the decision, right. I do think it's a family decision
when it comes to uprooting your child to go to
another place for whatever reason, whether it's playing time, whatever
is well projected to be a start, or whatever whatever
it is. And I think, and that's what we deal
(13:26):
with on a daily basis. We don't just deal with
the player. We deal with parents, we deal with trainers,
we deal with agents, We deal with a whole slew
of people that make this decision to say, hey, this
isn't a place for you for whatever reason. I'm okay,
Like I really am okay, Like I want I want
lay to be great, right, even if it's not with us.
(13:48):
Go where you're happy, Like I've always said that to
to our players.
Speaker 6 (13:52):
You know, be where your mind is, Go where you're happy,
and don't look back. Right. I know what we're about.
I know what we produce.
Speaker 7 (14:01):
I know we do it in the fashion in which
has stay in power at the next level, Like we
produce pros.
Speaker 6 (14:07):
It is, it is the known thing.
Speaker 7 (14:10):
What that looks like through your process is probably a
little bit different, Like it's different for each and every
person for what they need. Some people listen a little
bit better, some people don't. It takes them a little
bit longer to understand what's happening. I you know the
transfer portal is out of control. I do think there
needs to be some parameters set. I am for giving
(14:34):
them a one time for you to go, second, third,
fourth time.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
They shouldn't.
Speaker 7 (14:38):
There shouldn't be with any any without just without some penalty,
right and sitting out. It will probably make them make
better decisions early, early in their careers, early, and and
they you should get it right with them, like like
two like two times right. It's it's called commitment. You
(15:01):
have to be committed, committed to the game.
Speaker 6 (15:05):
Right. And then for us, we don't.
Speaker 7 (15:08):
We don't lose a whole lot of recruit We don't
lose a whole lot of players off of our roster.
I think one because we are talking to parents, we're
talking to agents, we're talking to trainers, we're talking to everybody,
like we know everybody that has a voice in our
players heads. And it's really important that you get that.
And if if you come to terms with this isn't
(15:30):
the place for you, Okay, Okay, let's let's let's find
you another place. I'm all for Hey, let me let
me call coach like I we had two that transferred.
Let me help you. Let me like I call college coaches. Actually,
I told her tell the coaches to call me. If
you don't want to take the calls, I'll tell them, no,
(15:50):
you're not interested.
Speaker 6 (15:51):
I did all of that.
Speaker 7 (15:53):
Nobody really knows that I do that to help them
find their happy place. But it wasn't It wasn't my legies,
So it wasn't it wasn't her. But I mean, I
recruited them like they're a part of who I am.
I don't have any ill will towards anybody I got.
We got too many players that we got to take
care of ourselves that have ill will. I don't even
give any second thought because I'm so I'm so into
(16:16):
the team that I currently have.
Speaker 6 (16:20):
So I mean that the transfer.
Speaker 7 (16:21):
Portal does allow you to you know, does allow you
go in and get some some quality players, but you
also have to do your due diligence. You gotta look
at shooting percentage, you gotta look at you gotta break
it down, y'all going synergy and break their game down
to see if they fit. Because for for us, this
is it. You're you're we're bringing them into our family.
(16:42):
We're bringing them in to play a big role and
and on our team.
Speaker 6 (16:47):
But I will say this.
Speaker 7 (16:50):
The some of the new ones, the freshmen and the
new transfers. There's a there's a stark difference between like
mental strength and dealing with some stuff. I know it's
probably me and dealing with me and having the mental
fortitude to get through some stuff. I'm happy that the
people that we bring in can say it then actually
(17:13):
talk about it, like my confidence is shot, right, I'm
not feeling comfortable right because we have that kind of
atmosphere where you just say how you feel and then
we'll figure out how we make you feel better. But
confidence is something that we want you to want you
to lose. And it's just June. And it's just June
(17:34):
cause June you started August. We start in June, like
it's June. We just got together, Like you shouldn't even
be feeling this way. But I also tell them that, hey,
in games play how you play your natural instincts. In practice,
we probably need to stop and think about some things.
You know, your options, your awareness and all of that.
(17:55):
But in the games, you know, do you like do
you don't? Don't think twice, don't try to figure stuff out,
just work off instincts.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
I also think that the portal is teaching kids not
only not necessarily bad. Maybe bad is the wrong word,
but to me, you're running from the grind and it's
not just in sports. That's going to carry over in life.
And I feel like, you know, me was someone I
went to UCLA with back to back five five star
recruiting classes, the number one recruiting classes, back to back years,
and my freshmyear was up and down. My sophomore year
(18:25):
at the beginning was up and down, and then I
finally hit my stride halfway through my sophomore But I
know sitting on.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
That bench, I learned a lot and they'll lit that fire.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
And the adversity got me ready for the next level
because the next level is not like this.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
It's twists and turns. So I feel like just I
feel like a.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Lot of kids, whether it be bad people in their
ear or just don't like to really grind or push
through things like you're just running it. At some point
in your career or life, you're not going to be
able to run, and you've been running for so long
that you're not going to do when you can't.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
You don't know what to do when you can't run
no more, because I think.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
That's what we're talking about more than anything, is we're
not talking about the one time. I mean, I don't
want to be a hypocrite. I've got several transfers on
my team right now that are amazing. I mean that
are some of our leaders and you know, doing amazing thing.
I think we're really talking about that second, third, fourth
time that you're really just you know, chasing your tail,
so to speak. And I think that that needs to
(19:19):
be distinguished because there's a lot of kids who make,
you know, decisions that are best for them and and
I've been on the receiving end and I've been on the.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
Giving end of that.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
But I think it's more we're talking about the infrastructure
of the just go to the next thing and grassy
and green are where you you know, on the other side.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
Of the water where you water.
Speaker 6 (19:36):
The money might be money might Yeah, exactly, if.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
They put you on the curb Tuesday when trash come
and they put you back on that Thursday, you still trash.
I don't know where you go, You're gonna be trash.
You can't blame the program. It might be you.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
The growth of the Woman's game, it's been beautiful from
smashing college records to the w's growth. They're sitting down
for a new collective of arguing agreement. Unrivals popped up.
What have you guys seen in the transformation? Obviously you
guys were both former players in this women's game. Just
the growth of the game over the last handful of years.
Speaker 7 (20:11):
I think we've been held down for so many years,
so many decades, that that now cats out the bag
like it is.
Speaker 6 (20:19):
It is. It is high demand. I mean it is.
Speaker 7 (20:23):
Everybody wants to be It's a money making you can
make money off of women's basketball. These leagues are starting,
These leagues are super competitive. They're going after each players.
The wnbas is hyper competitive. I think now is the
time I think college college women's college basketball is.
Speaker 6 (20:44):
Is that an all time high?
Speaker 7 (20:46):
And I still don't think we get what we deserve
from a from a television deal, Like, we don't get
what we deserve. We aren't what we were when we
signed the deal. We are not where we are. I'm
a proponent for going back to ESPN, say hey, it's
worth the conversation. We are not like give us our
(21:08):
give us, give us some of what you you know
is happening out there and and and see where it is.
The only thing they can say is no. But and
they probably will say no because they've already said no.
We expand our our n C Double A tournament. They
were like, we're not, We're not giving you more money
(21:29):
for the games. We will televise the games. When I
get where they where do they do that at football?
If they're gonna pay another SEC game? Oh oh oh,
so why treat us any differently?
Speaker 6 (21:43):
You know? So?
Speaker 7 (21:45):
I mean, I mean Corey was the president of our
of our association. She's got all the all the nuggets
that that that you will want to know about and
how we got to where we are and where we
where we need to go and we have to prepare
for our next move.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Well, I think the huge pieces that what you said
is that it's not a title nine box to check anymore.
It is a really wise business venture that is worth
investing in. And I don't think some for instance, the
TV deal that happened, you're not going to get any
different treatment on campus. If let's say the men, you
get all this you know, reward financially for the men
(22:24):
going far in the NCAA tournament because their TV deal
is totally different, so they're able to have a unit
distribution that promotes the growth of that sport and protecting that.
But now we're at a point where our viewership is
up the ad business and for the first time ever,
you know Internet, you know, brand marketing deals are higher
than that's the tipping point, than the traditional ad space
(22:48):
on TV, and women are killing in that space, and
so that all those things surrounding it's time that we
go back and go, Okay, wait, the landscape has changed here.
Speaker 6 (22:58):
What do we have to do to cont you.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
To invest in the sport not out of a charity,
because it is earned, it's the right to be a
really good investment. And until we do that, you're putting
universities who are under incredible pressure with all of the
changes that we've had, that they're not going to have
the same commitment to continue to grow the sport and
uplift it because there's not the infrastructure that rewards them
(23:23):
for doing so.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Today's price is not yesterday's.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
It's going on.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
You know, Even with me being a professional athlete played basketball,
I have to admit I watch women's basketball in the
last three years more than I watch NBA anything college too.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
It's college basketball too. There's a lot incitement around the
w but to me at the college, there's nothing better.
And you guys are kind of stowing the crown from
the men's like the women's tournament is mustards and the numbers,
the numbers don't lie.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
The numbers say it too.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Coach Close, you've been the head coach at UCLA for
fifteen years now, Historically great men's program come off the
heels with what you guys accompassed last year, the excitement
around campus. I've got a chance to go to your
guys game and the men's game, and your guys' shit
is jumping, Like did you ever.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Think it would?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Obviously the goal was to get here, but now that
you're here, with the excitement and having everyone behind you,
how does.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
That feel amazing?
Speaker 3 (24:16):
You know, I think especially in LA where everyone said, oh,
you can't do it in LA there's too much to
compete with or those kinds of things. Even you know,
credit to even our rivals across town to have two
of the best teams in the country right there, committed
to growing the sport in LA. At the same time,
it's been really fun. But I don't think you know.
I mean, you know this. I just love basketball and
(24:40):
I want this. There's sometimes a sense of as women's
basketball grows, we're trying to take something away from men's basketball.
Speaker 6 (24:47):
No or not, we love the game.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
And so like to celebrate that in light of the
history of what we walk in in CLA. There's a
great humility for me every time I walk down the
hallway of our games and I see your picture up,
I see the banners up, I see all the different
people that blaze the trail that I get to walk in,
and so it's very humbling but really exciting, and I
(25:10):
feel a great sense of responsibility to continue to pour in,
to invest in the in the women, and to leave
it better than I found it.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
Anybody that thinks women's basketball evolving and going up it's
taken away from men's anything as a moron.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I mean, I think just we live basketball.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
We live in a society now where everyone wants you
to choose multiple things can be true and multiple things
to be entertaining. Nil agents, kids marketing making hundreds of thousands,
even millions of dollars. Coach Viga, I want you to
take this one. What has it been like coaching and recruiting.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
But how has it changed?
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Obviously, you guys have all been in this game for
a long time, whether it be playing you're playing first
and then and now coaching. But just the simple, the
simple simplicity of recruiting now I'm sure has changed.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
And and and how you have to coach.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
I coach au high school boys, and it's just the
way I used to get yelled and cust that, and
it was you had to take it. Now if you
do that, they're out of here. So how have you
guys just kind of changed your overall philosophy while still
keeping your morals and principles and and and and the
right stuff. You know, you still need, no matter if
these kids want to hear it or not.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
There's a lot of that question.
Speaker 8 (26:31):
Go ahead, Nick, Yeah, Well, let's be honest. We're we're
pro coaches now, I mean, whether we want to be
or not. It's still not something I'm real comfortable with
at all because it's just something that I we didn't
do for so many years.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
And now all of a sudden, you.
Speaker 8 (26:51):
Talk about numbers to recruits.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
I think one of the things that.
Speaker 8 (26:58):
Y'all might not be a whereof that would just shock
you is what a kid might think they're worth. They
played somewhere one year, played five minutes a game and
averaged two points a game.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
And they're asking, hey, I.
Speaker 8 (27:12):
Got to have that position. Let me check on them
and see and they're you're just astonished at what the
number is, Like it just it would blow you away,
like really, like I'm it is. But I have a GM.
You know, I have a business lady in town that's
created her own business solder. She's retired. She serves on
(27:34):
three national boards all over the country. That's her job.
So she spends a lot of time with me. And
you know, we all have a salary cap. I mean,
we're all here because we're trying to increase our cap
right at the at the event we're in and but
it's I mean we're we're we are literally having to
(27:57):
manage and it's dickating. And I tell my administration this.
You want to tell your administration something. Look, if we
can't get that person because of the number, well then
you need to tell me now and I'll stop recruiting
numbers one through twenty five. I need to start recruiting
(28:19):
number sixty five through one thirty because they're a different
number than one through twenty five. That's the truth of
the matter. And if you want us to be good,
which we three are lucky to be at places where
women's basketball is really important, it is and our administrations
have obviously invested in us, as Coach was talking about,
(28:45):
and we've proven them right, I mean the proofs in
the pudding.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
But that's that's.
Speaker 8 (28:56):
The truth of the matter. If we're all going to
conte to try to compete for national championships, which I'm
telling you at Texas that's all they care about, then
if we're going to live in that neighborhood, it's going
to take this number.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
Stay there now. If you're not.
Speaker 8 (29:16):
If we don't have that, well, then don't hold me
to that because I can't live there. I got to
live over here, exactly, and then I'll stop wasting my
time and my staff will stop wasting their time recruiting
in that neighborhood because we ain't getting that kid, and
that unfortunately for us, and I believe it for all
(29:37):
three of us, we're still.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
Again.
Speaker 8 (29:41):
I've watched her teams from Afar, I live with her.
I believe we are too far down. I won't speak
for Coach, but I'm too far down the road to change.
We are about relationships. Like my staff works really hard
in recruiting. We are about relationships. Yes, at some point
in the recruiting process we're going to talk about a number.
(30:04):
That is very true. But I still believe in women's
basketball there is a parent parents that are in trusting
you with their daughter. I don't think at the end
of the day, a number is going to trump whether
they think you're going to take care of their kid
or not. I don't think you can put a value,
you know, a number. Like I got kids of my own,
(30:25):
there's no number that they're worth. They are in you know,
the numbers infinite. And so for us, we work really
hard on the on the relationship piece. But and so
this is today's world, you know, this is what.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
We live in.
Speaker 8 (30:40):
And again, I'm so fortunate to have Miss Lisa because she,
you know, she kind of keeps me within that that range.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
That we have to live in. I mean, it's not
it's not. There is an end to it.
Speaker 7 (30:54):
Yeah, regardless of the money, you don't you don't you
don't coach the money you're coaching, and you.
Speaker 6 (31:00):
Don't even think about the money.
Speaker 7 (31:02):
You really don't even think about the money when you're coaching,
because it looks sound feel like something looks sounds and
feels off. You know, I'm too old and not say
anything good or bad, good or bad like like it's.
Speaker 8 (31:15):
Well, we're just too far down the road. If we've
done and how we've done it has been successful, yes,
like I wouldn't know how to do it any other way.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
Broke, don't fix it.
Speaker 7 (31:23):
Yeah, now there's some things I won't I'm not dealing.
I mean I know that I'm not fighting like I'm not.
I'm not fighting the social media piece. That's how they
make their money, right, I'm not fighting that piece. They
need their phones. I think they would be they would
be worse without their phones.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
You pop up on the TikTok every now and then
with them.
Speaker 7 (31:43):
Why not where they are meaning when they are, meaning
where they are, And but you're not, you're not we're
not coaching the money like we got a home for
the money.
Speaker 6 (31:53):
We gotta we gotta build a roster.
Speaker 7 (31:55):
But when it's all said and done, like I don't
even think I get mad and say.
Speaker 6 (32:01):
You're not worth that, You're not worth that?
Speaker 7 (32:03):
Every day like your your standards are too low for
you to get that money. I don't even think I
think about those things. It's just if your standards low today,
we got we gotta get you to your standard. Money
doesn't Money doesn't come in in the play. Money only
comes into play. You sit down with them and and
they say yes, or they say maybe. If they say maybe,
(32:26):
they're shopping it all to somebody else, and you have
to deal with that aspect of it. So it's it's
I I like it though. I like the challenge of
figuring it out, the challenge of, you know, put the
team together, and and and and I'm a I'm.
Speaker 6 (32:45):
A believer in this.
Speaker 7 (32:47):
I'll let a good recruit go right, not have a
good time, have a circle back.
Speaker 6 (32:53):
They're cheaper that.
Speaker 7 (32:54):
Way, they're cheaper. They're cheaper because they're not getting what
they want. They're not getting they're getting closer to John
to be a pro. And then we're like, oh, okay,
well I stacked it. Let me go get these skills
set and let me go get this knowledge and mindset
so I can have some longevity in the league.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
I think that the key factor is how do we
stay competitive, adjusting the new landscape and stay mission minded
at the same time, and there's I think we're all
figuring it as we go, you know, but I think
there's some non negotiables. For me, the standard of excellence
can't change, so the landscape has changed, so I got
to adapt and I do.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
Don.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
I think you're brilliant at meeting people where they are
and it's been an inspiration to me, and I think,
so we have to be willing to adapt. But the
standard can't change. The standard is the standard. And so
now though, how do you do that? Because money does
bring in a different thing you're competing with from a
value standpoint, an entitlement standpoint. Where did you get your
(33:58):
value from? And so for me, the big challenges I
agree with Don that there's more pluses than minuses. It's challenging.
I think there's things we have to guard against, but
we can't complain about it. And then when it comes
these student athletes are getting these opportunities and then you know,
change the script, so to speak. So I think it's
(34:18):
just really important that we find ways to be competitive
in the landscape. I think we do need structure in
this area too, Like what does a salary cap really mean? Well,
it means there's something different at every place in every conference,
and so what could that look like? But also how
do we stay mission minded and really coach people's hearts?
You know, coach wouldn't I had the unbelievable opportunity to
(34:41):
be mentored by him for fifteen years, and one of
the things he's told He told me was, remember Corey,
you're not coaching people's jump shots, You're coaching people's hearts.
But he would say, but if you coach their hearts
really well, usually their jump shot ends up pretty good too.
And for me, add money or not, I just have
to remind myself I'm still coaching people's hearts.
Speaker 7 (35:00):
And for the record, like we talked to each other
for the greater good of our game.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
I called her at the final four and said, hey,
do you think this kid's.
Speaker 6 (35:07):
Worth that I did? I did work?
Speaker 7 (35:11):
I mean because we're we are in it together, like
like you may. Of course, we want to give young
people their work, but sometimes that number is ha and
the production is low.
Speaker 6 (35:26):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Jack and I both played AU and put our kids
through AU. I think the landscape looks a lot different
than it used to do. We need to think, rethink
what our youth basketball system looks like anybody could take that.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Let me pray about that. Amen, Yes, I just I
just think that we got to look at the whole
what's happening in our world, you know, what's happening internationally,
what's happening in the pros, the NBA, the w n
b A, and look at the trends of where our
game is going. And I think then we have to
go look back to what how are we training our
kids up to it ready for this the trends of
(36:02):
where the game is going. And so I think there's
way more good than bad in the system. But I
do think if we're going to continue to lead in
the US, especially on the women's side, where we have
such a long tradition, that just like the men have experienced,
the gap has closed, you know, and now and the
gap is closing for the women too. And so I
(36:24):
think how we structure youth leagues, how we bring the
joy of the game. There's a lot of competition for
youth sports, you know, and volleyball I think for the
first time had as many or more participants in the
women's side and the in the youth leagues as basketball.
Speaker 6 (36:40):
So I think that you.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Know, we do need to really look at where are
the trends of the game from an international perspective as
well as a pro perspective, and then reverse engineer how
we equip our young people in the grassroots level and
youth basketball.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
There's a lot of them are more concerned with what
the game can do for them than loving the game.
Like we tell when we grow up, all we have
that was outside parks and playing basketball. I think we
couldn't afford trainers, we couldn't board other gyms.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
We have to do with what was in front of us,
and you learned a whole lot.
Speaker 5 (37:08):
They fall in love to what the game can give
them instead of fall in love with the game of basketball.
I tell kids, y'all, don't understand like we played basketball
the eighteen nineteen years for free just because.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
You love the game.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Maybe got some shit to get.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
To up there when we can make money, you know
what I mean?
Speaker 6 (37:22):
They don't pick.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Up, do you guys? See it?
Speaker 1 (37:26):
On the women's side because they can I coach and
have kids and and and pay attention. On the men's side,
I feel like this generation is very skilled, but they
lack the IQ and don't know how to play without
the ball and all that. Do you guys feel that
on your side as well?
Speaker 6 (37:38):
They don't play enough pick up to pick up or
what on want?
Speaker 7 (37:42):
You learn toughness, you learn, you learn how to have
thick skin. You learn to maneuver what works, what doesn't work.
You know, you learn the trash talking. You learn all
of those things while you're playing pick up. Like our
first championship team never played pickup like in the summer.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
That's crazy, I remembers.
Speaker 7 (38:06):
I mean that's competition. Yeah, Like if you're competitive, you
won't you won't.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Hey, that's how you work on your game. Whatever you're
working on works.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Yes, there's a great story with the NBA runs at UCLA.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
I was about to go there, but go ahead, take it,
take it well.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
I mean, Earl Watson has this great story where one
of his teammates from college was coming to him and saying, Hey,
I get to the last cut in the.
Speaker 6 (38:32):
League and I keep getting cut, I keep getting cut.
How come you always make You've been in the league.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
You weren't even that, you weren't a five star guy,
and you know you you've been in the league twelve
thirteen years. How'd you do that? He goes, I'll tell
you you'll stick on a team when you can do one thing.
And he goes, well, what is it? He goes, you
got to go and win three games in a row?
Speaker 6 (38:51):
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Stay on the center court, in the center court.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Stay on the center court means you keep winning and
you can't and you can do it without scoring. And
so that's what earle knew how to do, is he
would play on the center court and he would look
around and go, who's on my team?
Speaker 4 (39:07):
What do I have?
Speaker 3 (39:08):
And I'm going to make sure we win and I
don't ever have to shoot. And you know, tell me
if I got that wrong. But I just think how
you can affect winning looks like so many other ways.
And when you learn that.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
Karen can affect the game, Yeah, totally just caring. I
don't seem care enough.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
That's where I was going with it.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
Don't tell Texas to care to.
Speaker 7 (39:34):
It's terms like young people have terms and conditions on
you know, how they how they how they.
Speaker 6 (39:40):
See things right, the entitlement.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
Because they got no depth to it. Like the pickup
part just really gets me. You you you you learn depth,
you learn about all those things that you need how
to you know, see if your stuff works and then
you you can you can really rely on that, like
(40:08):
you we don't know, Like you know, Raven, Raven's been
in the gym all summer long, right all summer alone.
Speaker 6 (40:14):
Now, Raven feels.
Speaker 7 (40:15):
Like she should be able to see her stuff every game,
like like she should score every game. But if you're not,
if you haven't scored every game for a certain part
of your college career, it's going to be up and
down to you fit until you figure it out. But
just because you're not scoring, it can't impact the other
(40:37):
parts that are so valuable to your game.
Speaker 6 (40:41):
So and I just tell the trust, well, your work,
Trust your work. Just trust your work.
Speaker 7 (40:47):
You put it in, it's done already, it's done, you
did it over trust it on a daily basis.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
I was just gonna add to that with a I
think if you don't put in that work and that
creativity that happens, it's they end up coming into your
season wanting to treat it like a scientific formula instead
of an art project or a painting to paint. And
I don't think basketball is a scientific formula. And I
think if you haven't failed and been creative or oh
I want to try that move I've been working on.
(41:17):
And you don't do that and pick up in the summer,
You're not.
Speaker 6 (41:19):
Ever going to do it.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
And the lights are no, no, the lights are bright.
Speaker 6 (41:23):
And so you know, I just do it. It's not
gonna look good.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
Well that's true, that's true. So I just think you
losing the whole fun of it, you know, And well,
why play it like a like you're in a lab.
Let's play it like you're have an exquisite painting.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
I think that was one of my biggest gifts and
the reason why I was able to play fifteen professionally
was because of the men's gym in the summertime and
coming in there as an eighteen year old playing against
Kobe and Paul and t Mac and Shack and you
name it. We may think we're okay, we're doing our thing,
but this is where we're trying to go and look
what they're doing, you know what I mean. So I
just think that that the pick up. I mean again,
(41:58):
I'm a dad too, so it's just like I have
to call around and get the gym, and hey, hit
all your homeboys and tell them I'll get the Joab
paid for the gym for two hours, and you gotta
just go get every.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
When you can to play.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Like we we found the gym, we found the park,
we found somewhere to play. But now it's almost like
you really have to spoon feed them. And then one
more thing I'll say as a coach getting high school
kids ready for the pros, everyone thinks they have to score,
and I'm just like, there's so many more ways to
get recruited outside of scoring, because a lot of you
guys scoring twenty points may not be even an option
on your college team.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
So how can you affect the.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Game If the best thing you can do isn't working,
the best thing you can do on the court isn't working,
house can you affect the game? So just kind of
to trigger their mind and spark their minds to think
that there's just so much more to whatever your specialty is.
They if I take that away tonight, how can you
still help me win the game?
Speaker 5 (42:41):
And the landscape with the NBA is too like they
want one dimensional guys that's good at one thing.
Speaker 4 (42:46):
So don't think you're just going to come in.
Speaker 5 (42:47):
And shoot all the balls because you got guys that's
getting paid to do shooting. You got a guy getting
paid the rebound, so you're not gonna be able to
do all that.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
You gotta find out what you're good at being start
the role and they don't want to stow coach.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
The Knicks reached out to you. How did that go
and what was that process? What was that process?
Speaker 4 (43:07):
Like we would have fell out?
Speaker 7 (43:10):
Well one, I've known Leon and Worldwide West for thirty years.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
Yeap.
Speaker 6 (43:16):
Like Leon called me and I'm like, what's up, Leon?
This is out?
Speaker 7 (43:20):
He was like, hey, you know thinking about you know,
I want to bring you into the interview.
Speaker 6 (43:26):
I'm like, come on, Leon, exactly, come on. Like He's like, no,
I'm serious, I'm serious. I'm serious.
Speaker 7 (43:33):
So I had to go to New York for something
and I told him I am gonna be in New York.
He's like, you know, come to my apartment. Let's let's
talk a little bit. And he was like really serious
about it. I was like, well, how did you How
did you come to put me on your list? And
he showed me the book, He showed me the list
of coaches. He just said, basically, you have what we need,
(43:56):
your collaborative with people like we need that in the
front office. We need that, we need our basketball in
our front office, you know, to have to be integrated
and work collaboratively. So and then we set up a
meeting to do the interview. Did the interview was six hours.
It was whiteboard. It was just talking and how you
(44:18):
get players to to to.
Speaker 6 (44:23):
Play at a high level.
Speaker 7 (44:25):
And I and I actually asked them some questions. And
I thought the questions that I asked them, they really
didn't know the answers because it's not a normal question
for them, like how would how would me being the
Knicks head coach affect your job? Your job, your job,
your job being a woman, being a black woman, because
(44:46):
you're gonna you're gonna be asked questions that you never
had to answer because it because it again, first a
three game losing Street, I mean three game losing streak,
five game lovers Street. It is different than I'm the coach.
Then what a male coach? I mean, it happens all
the time in the league. They're not asked certain questions.
(45:06):
They're not they're not it's about can they coach or not?
Like it would be more about a female coach, it
would be more about anything other than this, she qualified
and she like all of those things not not their norm.
So I don't I don't think they were ready for that.
And I do think that if you're going to hire
a female coach, you have to plan for that. It's
(45:29):
not an you interview them, Oh they have the job,
and then you're planning as you're as you're doing.
Speaker 6 (45:34):
Is to me, it doesn't work that way.
Speaker 7 (45:38):
You gotta have the mindset to actually really get behind
a female coach and give her what she needs to
be successful.
Speaker 5 (45:45):
It been a lot you had to deal with that
they didn't have a wall up for, especially dealing with
the media space.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
So I understand exactly what.
Speaker 6 (45:52):
All of that.
Speaker 4 (45:53):
Yeah, how you're going to have her first argument with
a teammate? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
It was, Yes, we appreciate everyone's time. Last question of
the day, and I'll start with you, Vic. If a
high school kid is watching this, or even maybe another
kid at a program, what is one piece of advice
you would give them?
Speaker 4 (46:17):
I think listen to the.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Podcast that I like that. I like that.
Speaker 8 (46:25):
I mean there's been a lot of information coach close
and they're just you know, they've been doing it a
long time. I've been doing it forty one years. I think,
you know, the advice that's been given within the context
of this whole thing. We've talked about a lot of
things that for an eighteen year old, I think they
(46:46):
can go off of. But I think the biggest thing
again is, I know you can get caught up in
some things, but you need to stay grounded with what's
really important. Be somewhere where you feel like you're going
to be developed, Be somewhere where you're gonna be loved,
Be somewhere where you're going to have great role models,
(47:09):
great great you know, mentors as a young woman.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
And I think.
Speaker 8 (47:15):
Both of these coaches myself, you know, we're at places
where I feel like, you know, kids are going to
get that. And for me, I you know, my daughter
played for me and when she was you know, in
high school, she could go a lot of places and
won a lot of games. I could have cared less
about that. I want her to be somewhere where she
was going to have great role models, female role models,
(47:38):
great mentors, and be developed and be taken care of,
because at the end of the day, we have people's children,
we have their daughters, and so you know, that's my
advice and the rest will come. I mean, you have
your whole life, but the next four years are really important.
(48:01):
They're really important, and you know, to be at one
of our places, and there's a lot of places around
the country that are really good. I think, you know,
that's where you got to. You got to you got
to really.
Speaker 4 (48:17):
Trust.
Speaker 8 (48:17):
You're gonna have to trust somebody. You know, some mom
and dad's gonna have to trust, you know, a coach,
trust somebody, and so you know, do your homework and
and get to know people.
Speaker 4 (48:29):
You know.
Speaker 8 (48:30):
Again, I think for us, it's still about relationships at
the end of the day. Yeah, man, we're you watch
any of our teams, man, our teams are they play hard?
You know, they play really hard. I've I've coach, I
have played against coaches teams. We've scrimmaged each other in
the early sorry obviously I've I've had to coach against
(48:53):
her and and play her teams. And our teams play
so hard. And I think when the games over, I
think all three of us, if that's what they said
about our team, man, you got a tough, physical, aggressive
basketball team, I think we'd probably be good.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
And that don't say anything about your jump, no mindset it.
Speaker 8 (49:15):
Just but I think if that's what they say about
our teams, I'm good. I'm gonna play her tomorrow. Whatever
happens when the game's over. If I go to locker room,
go man, we played our guts out. I'm good.
Speaker 4 (49:29):
I'm good.
Speaker 8 (49:29):
We have to play our guts out, you know when
we play teams like this and obviously playing South Carolina
every year when I was at Misissippi State, now at Texas, Baby,
you better play your guts out or it ain't gonna
be much fun. We're like, our guts out tomorrow or
it ain't gonna be much Fun's got a great team.
So I think that's my my thought process and my
(49:52):
message because again, you're gonna have a lot of people
you know in your ears and you've got to be
able to You've got to be able to sift through
some of that and you need some guidance.
Speaker 6 (50:05):
He said it at the end.
Speaker 4 (50:06):
Trust.
Speaker 7 (50:06):
You got to be able to trust who you're in
trusting your career with, like really trust them. And it's
not you just can't put the onus on the coach, right,
it is a relationship. You're in a relationship with your coach.
And coaches. That means when something doesn't feel right to you,
(50:28):
you got to be able to speak up because we
can't read your minds, although we can meet you where
you are on any given day, but you got to
trust that person enough to say, hey, this doesn't sound
right to me, I'm not feeling right.
Speaker 6 (50:40):
Can you help me?
Speaker 7 (50:41):
Like you have to be able to do that, and
I think part of that is get in to know
who you are, your authentic self, your vulnerable self, your downfalls, right,
what your strength and your weakness is, all of that
as a person, and that is the time that that
that is growth. Time you're making the most transformational you know,
(51:03):
these are the most transformational years of your life in college.
And if you can't have a conversation with your college
coach about what's happening with you, good, bad, are and different.
I'll just say this, young people, young people, we've been
coaching so long that there are no new problems. There
are no new problems, but we've never seen a hundred
(51:26):
times we've dealt with it at all. So just bring
it to us, you know, don't be embarrassed. Somebody's been
through it. Somebody's have been through it.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Let us help you.
Speaker 6 (51:35):
Let us help you. We're your biggest resource.
Speaker 7 (51:38):
And if you don't, and I do think that that
can help with someone what's happening in the transfer portal
part or that is just miscommunication, misconception and.
Speaker 6 (51:48):
Untruths like imagine, like made up stuff.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
I think bottom line is what really lasts, you know,
Like I think about if I was coaching.
Speaker 8 (51:57):
Your boys, what would you want from me?
Speaker 3 (52:00):
You know, and you would want me to give them
something that lasts, and you know, I think that the
reality is the average Division one basketball player spends over
thirty five hundred hours in their sport over four years,
and only four percent of those are in games four percent.
But what's recruiting all about? Outcomes? And the ninety six
percent and now money, And I think that it's just
(52:21):
really got to be I had a UCLA men's basketball
lum and our mental conditioning coach at the time, Joshua Medcalf,
come into our team and say, what are the things
they are going to be with you for the rest
of your life from these four years? And I remember
that time Jordan Canada was said, I want.
Speaker 6 (52:37):
A banner, baby, I want that banner to.
Speaker 3 (52:38):
Be in the gym and he goes, man, I can't
wait to be at that Banner ceremony, but the reality
is Banner's hanging gyms.
Speaker 6 (52:45):
And then someone else said.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
Hey, I want a ring, baby, and I want that ring.
I want it shiny, and he said, I cannot wait
for that to be a byproduct of your process and
your work. But rings collect dust. So the only two
things that will stay with you for the rest of
your life from these four years is who you become
and who you impact. You get to keep those forever.
And so when I just think about the advice of
(53:08):
that is just whatever you're gonna do, make decisions based
on something you want to have for a long time,
because otherwise the outcomes are just a distraction.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
Well, Thank you guys, Thank you for the players, Air
for hosting us. Make sure you guys tune in to
the tournament on TNT, True TV.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
And HBO Max.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
Thank you see all these teams in action. Best of
luck to everybody, and thank you for tuning in. That's
to wrap all the smoke. You can catch this on
what is It, DraftKings Network and all Smoke productions you too.
We'll see you guys next week.
Hosts And Creators
Stephen Jackson
Matt Barnes
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