February 18, 2020 • 42 mins
Two powerhouse gal-pals of Laura’s join her and Johnnie in the studio. First up, actress, comedienne and film star Liz Carey, most recently seen on Comedy Central’s Lights out with David Spade, shares the dark and hilarious details of her own divorce and subsequent break ups, all of which have positioned her as the one person her friends come to now for relationship advice—she’s got two engagement rings so she must know a thing or two! Then, newsmaker producer & talent manager Stella Bulochnikov arrives in the studio to tell her own shocking divorce story. Once everyone reveals their truth, the gloves come off and these powerful women in Hollywood share tips everyone can use to survive and thrive in their next chapter.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi there. It's me Laura Wasser, the divorce attorney and
the founder of It's over Easy, the online divorce service.
I've been practicing family law for over twenty years, and
I've worked on thousands of divorces, shepherding people through what
may be one of the most terrifying times in their lives.
Along the way, I often have to remind people to
(00:23):
lower their expectations when dealing with matters of the heart.
Rules simply don't apply because all's fair in love and war.
Hi everyone, I'm Laura Wasser, I'm Johnny Rains and this
is All's Fair, a podcast about love and war and
everything in between. How does that old proverb go, All's
(00:44):
fair in love and war? Yes, and it's often used
to describe a situation in which people let their emotions
rule their actions and do things which, to say the
very least, are normally considered unfair. In my many years
of practicing family law, I often have to remind people
that their expectations that things will be fair when dealing
with matters of the heart are totally unrealistic. And this
(01:06):
is why we named the podcast All's Fair to embody
the notion that today's modern families and the current nature
and evolution of romantic, platonic and sexual relationships are ripe
for interesting discussions. And speaking of ripe, that article in
the Cardian that you sent me about the brave new
world of conscious non monogamy is just bursting with possibilities,
(01:26):
don't you think? That's what I do early in the mornings.
I that so this is the article that I sent you.
There's zero evidence that it's worse for children parenting in
a polyamorous relationship. Yeah, so what do you think about that?
I think that um Man Cub sixteen is the child
of a polyamorous parents parental relationship living in north Hamptonshire,
(01:51):
and he quite simply calls them my adults. Cassie his mom,
Josh's dad, and Amanda their partners. So they're a throuble. Yeah,
we laugh, throuble here in any event that you guys
can find that on what is it? The Guardian? Yeah,
the Guardian. And I think the main point of the
article is that polyamorous families don't screw their kids up
any more or less than families. I didn't even know
(02:13):
what you call traditional families these days boring Anyway, My
point has proven once again, and our conversation about modern families, love, war,
and how to survive everything in between continues all season,
So tap subscribe so you don't miss a beat. Today,
you're going to meet two close friends of mine. When
you do date, okay, how many dates until you sleep
(02:35):
with the person? Oh? Boy, well I've messed this one up.
Immediately you see them that night and then yeah, man,
when I see them again. You don't need to date?
Thing like, it's do we need to date? Like? What
is a date? People? Din my girl family starting? I
don't know what is a date? We can buy our
own salmon. Well, I'm not saying he has to pay.
I'm just saying you do you have a meal? That necessary?
(03:01):
I'm too old for small talk here and go home.
They're super different, but one thing that they have in
common is that they've been through hell and back. If
they can do it, I think you can too. But
how did they do it? Let's ask our first guest.
She's the comedian, actress and writer whom the Hive calls
a talented triple threat. You've read her work in print
(03:23):
and publications like The Strategist, Polyester, and Overheard. You've seen
her on True TVs Fameless with David Spade. She's also
had seen Stealing turns and films such as Alexander and
The Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day, the Four
year Old Version, and Spanglish. You can currently find her
on Lights Out with David Spade on Comedy Central, and
perhaps most importantly, she's a mom, so I knew she
(03:44):
hates fart jokes, so we sent her out into the
streets of Hollywood, hooked up to a fart machine that
I controlled, and I put in her purse, and then
I had her interview people with fake questions. This one's
a real thinker. Let's do it. So do you live
here now? I'm from New York. I'm leaving tomorrow, so yeah,
(04:05):
it squeeze in your last night? Um got drunk? Hoday?
Do you do you have a dog? No? I'm so
allergic to dogs. Do they think that Instagram is having
a negative effect on people at all? Not really, but
(04:26):
it can be used in a bad way and intermittent fast.
What would you say the most beautiful thing you've seen
in Los Angeles has been excuse me, I'm really that
(04:47):
was such a lovely thing to say. And I have
to ruin it. Um, you know what, I think that
one actually got away from me. Please welcome my friend
Liz Carrie. Oh my god, welcome to all s fairless Carrie.
How's your How is your stomach? I'm okay, Yeah, I'm
intolerant apparently to everything. Yes, I mean I knew that
(05:10):
you had had a little something. Yeah, you look very thin,
but usually it's the hot air coming out of my mouth.
So tell us a little bit about your relationship history. Dear,
not that I haven't been there every dr ruth here. Well,
I got married when I was nineteen, which is I
(05:32):
think a smart time. You're very you know who you
are as a person, and my parents were thrilled was
in another country. Um, so gave that one of good
seven years, which I think is commendable. Seven years. I
know you know what I think is commendable. That you
(05:52):
didn't have a baby in that marriage. Well, right, go you.
But then, actually, when we think about it, when it's
but um, came back here, took a little year off
in America, dated and then did another seven year relationship
minus a marriage. Right, but added in the child, got it?
(06:13):
Because you want to make sure you have no I
do want to legal ties or any financial to someone
with whom you have a child. So that's good on you.
I do feel like this is a question that you
could answer that. Everybody is always shocked when I tell
them I was with somebody for seven years and we
had a baby together, and they always say, oh, well,
(06:34):
you're kind of law marriage. No, it doesn't exist, right,
No common law marriage in California. Do you hear that? People?
But is common law marriage legal anywhere? Yeah? There are
some states that recognize it, and I don't. I can't.
I wouldn't be able to tell you all of them
unless I looked it up. But I gotta say it's
like I think Colorado does. In certain states, it has
(06:55):
to be before sometime in the nineties. Georgia, Idaho, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, Kansas, Montana.
I'm not reading this, it's totally coming off my very
can't wait brain from in any of it. Yes, there
are states that recognized common law marriage. California is not
one of them. So sucks for you, Liz. It does
(07:17):
suck for me. I forgot to mention in my teen
marriage as we all have a team marriage marriage. Yeah,
the starter when my solicitor. She said, well, her first
thing was can you get pregnant? And I said, well,
I think we're a little past that because I'm here
for the divorce and all. And she said, well, England
(07:38):
doesn't really acknowledge anything less than ten years our job.
And she flat out said this we protected the man
in his castle. Oh my goodness. Wow? Why yeah not?
This was with a merit. This was in the two thousands,
if you will. Wow. Anyways, when I add that in,
(08:00):
I thought that was fun. That is fun. Fun fact
tell us about so so, I I know because I
know you that you are like the go to person
for a lot of people to talk about their relationships
because it's always like, you know, when you think everything
just couldn't get worse, I can make it. This is
my situation. I should have a legal degree at this point.
(08:22):
A lot of my friends do come to me and
the advice that I give them, and I wish I
would like to preface that. I don't know if I'm
using that correctly, but I would like to say I
am the owner of two engagement rings. Well there, so
that so you've got a little bit of experience. By
the way, like to give a plug too worthy. Our affiliate,
which is an online engagement ring consignment center. Perhaps you
(08:44):
can get rid of those rings and actually, you know,
upgrade on that. Yeah, you know what. I made one
into a necklace and one's just too pretty. Frankly, right,
you have to just by times dance around your apartment
wearing it exactly. I do feel like that gives me
already to give advice to a group of women that
have no engagement, right, who do you want to listen to?
(09:06):
The one with not agree? I agree, but yes, my
point was listening to Laura would have been helpful. You
can't really see the forest through the trees when you're
that upset. And I've had a lot of friends come
to me now asking for advice, and I always say,
be I know, it's like so hard right now to
even imagine being nice to this person. And Laura tried
(09:30):
to beat this into me, and my friends tried to
beat this into me. But truly, if you can be nice,
even if it kills you, that will dictate, especially if
you have kids, it's going it's going to dictate the
rest of your life. It's true. And it's hard to
come back from some things that we do during that first,
(09:51):
I mean burning the person's car interior completely that you
know who did that? That I want to clarify. That's
how how about the whole um one arm or leg
of every item of clothing in the persons which, by
the way, this happened to a friend of mine. He
didn't even realize this until he was packed and on
(10:14):
his way somewhere, and every shirt only had one arm,
and every fair of pants I only had one leg.
And I never really liked his girlfriend until I heard that,
and I was like, why did you give her up?
That was good? Slow cloup, Yes, I think a little.
And again this goes for even the small things to like,
don't react to that techno so fast. Just wait a second,
(10:35):
think about it. If you have to text, you know,
just a cathartic text, do it, but don't send it.
Send it to a friend. That's the best advice. Because
we have to get this, by the way, which is okay,
I mean it's taken me seven years to calm down.
That's crazy. But we communicate on this thing called our
family wizard. I'm sure that's been discussed on this podcast. Um.
(10:56):
I for a lot of my friends used this. Now
when I started using it in the early nineteen forties.
Um it was foreign everyone right, so I it was
hard to get the pigeon to go right to his
all over smallpox. Anyway, I've been offering to write a
few for people. Yes, oh, I Sarah know a lot
(11:17):
of things for people. Because you're too angry. I was like,
just you don't have to answer at this second, like
go to bed, right, And that's again. Our Family Wizard
is one of these apps or sites where you can
put stuff on to your ex and it is only
accessible by the two of you or someone you give
the code to, including a judge, so the judge can see.
(11:39):
So all of those text messages that you want to
send saying you fucking dick whatever, you don't send those
a little red flag. It's like if you're getting a
little heated, hey lady, you might want to down there.
But there are our Family Wizard. One is one. Co
parent has one, Fair has one. Now there's so many.
They make it for us or just hit me up
(12:04):
tons of her word limit. We're going to give you
her info at the end. So how do you keep
your cool? How do I keep my cool? I don't
know if I do I've only just learned now how
to keep my cool through my friends telling me you
actually need to keep your cool. So when you were
(12:26):
with your husband, your starter marriage, you went through creating
like a separation agreement. Um, we had a regular old
school divorce, so we'll put that one. That one was
actually pretty normal. I did a separation agreement with my
son's baby daddy, which I will say is a smart
thing to do, and that's before you're separated. This is
(12:47):
what would happen if like a cohabitation agreement kind of.
We we started to have some arguments when when the
stork brought the baby. That's how babies and I didn't
have any we were married. I asked for a separation agreement.
I would imagine it's similar to going through a post nup.
So you're sort of breaking up while you're together, which
(13:09):
is always I think, super fun. Make sure you sign
that piece of paper. Oh snap, so you doing that?
What happened not so much with the signing, Not so
much with the signing. Okay, So yeah, you guys. Another
thing that I do hear a lot in my line
of work is like we almost did. We had a
(13:30):
pre nup, but she didn't sign. We had a separation agreement,
and we worked so hard to get all the terms
we didn't sign. You gotta sign it, folks. It doesn't
work until it's signed. Well, this is Los Angeles, where
there's a lot of cooks in these kitchens. Maybe when you,
you know, isolate into the middle of America, you have
less cooks in the kitchen. We had too many cooks
(13:51):
in the kitchen, and I thought things were getting done. Yes,
make sure you're an alive human being. Woman or man.
Asked to see that piece of paper right and then
and then a copy of it somewhere. It's easy enough
to do these days. But really that is true. Another
thing I see happening a lot the entertainment industry is
you all don't seem to sign your contracts with your lawyers,
(14:13):
your agents, or your managers. Like our firm, we don't
start working for you until you sign the retainer letter,
which makes us legally obligated to help you in the
most you know, reasonable and and sage legal way, and
you have to pay us. And so we're real big
about that signing thing. And I think you know, someboy
people like, well, we really this was our intention I'm like,
(14:34):
I don't give a funk about your intention if that
thing is not signed. So sign the papers. It might
sound so obvious, but I can't tell you how many
people don't sign. I feel like we're really breaking down
walls today. We learned. We learned that you have to
sign pieces of paper and common law marriage does not
exactly except not but not here, not in our place. Right.
(14:55):
So now one more thing before we bring in our tops.
Liz thriving after divorce, let's talk about your dating profile? Um,
and do you always lead with the kid or do
you How does that work? I was going to ask
you that, I mean you you're in a relationship, Johnny,
I don't know what you're Magan, I didn't marry Yeah,
(15:17):
fun thriving and striving yeah, and surviving sting. I would say,
how am I thriving? Well? Know, what's your dating profile? Oh?
My dating profile? It's one sentence, just looking for anyone
that enjoys sarcasm. Okay, that's good. Not Canadians then, right,
(15:40):
and what about the kid? They don't know about been
on dating apps though? It's hysterical. It's every dude you
know in this city. But they're holding one of two things,
a camera which makes them a national geographic photographer, right,
or all of my eating friends holding their creative Emmy's
(16:02):
and I'm like, no, you are so embarrassing. This isn't
even a real emmy. This is just you being five
foot to holding a creative emmy in your living room
that you live with your mother. And I'm not gonna
Oh no, I'm going to get you a date anyway.
I I don't advertise my child on the dating app
(16:24):
because I feel like it's soils It soils him. I
don't want that for him. So what date or correspondence
do you? Actually? There is the reveal once ire them
inside of you, once I lure them in with my
saucy yoga sarcasm with my flu right, um, I hit
(16:46):
them with the kid. You gotta get that. You gotta
tell them about the can't right away? I agree? All right?
So now Johnny's signaling me maybe he wants to date you.
Don't happening He's married though, right I'm at those could
be a throuble. Like the polyamorous relationships. You are no
(17:06):
worse for parenting, can I think Johnny would be? The
dating apps are crazy because everybody wants open relationships now,
by the way, which basically they just want to hook up.
What that means. We've just been speaking with my hilarious friend, comedian,
actress and writer Liz Carrey about her breakup, and now
(17:27):
I'm going to introduce you to another dear friend of
mine whose real divorce story is sadly all too common,
but nevertheless, she is determined to thrive after surviving her
devastating divorce. She's a prolific producer. Try saying that ten
times fast. She's been nominated for Golden Globe for her
working unscripted and in fact, she has credited with launching
the celeb reality genre and kick starting the global reality
(17:49):
TV movement. She's a philanthropist and a fierce advocate for
women's rights. She's also a mom and a survivor. Welcome
to all's fair, Stella, that's so sexy. So tell us
a little bit about your personal history, because I know it,
but not everybody knows it. And I bet even some
of the people who know you don't even know that
you guys came here from Russia when you were a baby. Yeah,
(18:12):
I came on as a baby and I was raised
by immigrant parents. We were, I mean just super unevolved,
I would say, you know, and and I think the
philosophy was too, really just there was no emphasis on education.
It was really an emphasis on you have to find
a man. You have to get married. You know, this
(18:33):
is the most important thing you could do. And if
you don't have a man, you're worthless. Well what about
your grandma? You know, my gifted generation. You know, my
grandma was married her whole life and she was in
uh just the relationship was It's wild. The community stays
in relationships that aren't healthy, and as a child growing up,
(18:54):
you look at these relationships, like my grandfather was an
alcoholic and my grandmother was miserable of her whole life,
as strong as she was, and even though she was
a Holocaust survivor, she stayed in this preposterous marriage. And
the same with my mother, who followed that pattern. You
know my dad too, I mean, he was I hate
to say the woman, hate to say it, but he
wasn't a functioning alcoholic. And my mother just spend her
(19:16):
whole life yelling and growing up in this environment. You know,
I don't know I yell, but you know, I only
yell It's funny when I'm passionate about something and you
are passionate. But when I don't care anymore is when
I shut down, and it's not worth the energy. Yelling
is energy, you know. But my mom would yell and
she would fight this, and I would say, I think
(19:37):
to myself, because again your child, and you're not sophisticated,
and you don't understand what is happening, and you think
this is a normal relationship, where this is how it's
supposed to be, because the whole family is fighting. I mean,
the wives are yelling at their husbands and you. And
as soon as I was old enough on that, and
actually I wasn't even old enough. I remember just becoming
a teenager and you know, like wanting to go to
the right high school and like wanting to, you know,
(19:59):
just get an education. And they're like, do you have
a boyfriend? Like do I have a boyfriend? And and
I said, no, I don't have a boyfriend. WHA are
you a lesbian? And I remember thinking like it's either
a boyfriend or a lesbian, do you know, Like there's
no like, no, I want to go to school, like
I don't want a boyfriend, and none of my aunts
understood that, you know, and so did everyone come over
(20:20):
at the same time everyone and everyone ended up in Flatbush.
Everyone ended up in Brooklyn and this community, in this
Russian community, and so that was the philosophy, was that
you had to be married and have children. Everyone stayed
in this community. And so when I left Brooklyn and
I came to Los Angeles, and I'll never forget like
(20:40):
when I met my boyfriend who became my husband and
the father of my kids. I remember we were about
to get married and I you know, you see red flags,
but you don't want to see red flags. And then
you see these glaring red flags, and I remember doing
the biggest mistake of my life, which was calling my
mother and saying, I'm not going to do this. I'm
not going to really, I'm not going to marry him,
(21:01):
because I this is not what I want from my life.
I could feel that he's controlling, he feels abusive. Um,
this just doesn't feel right to me, Like I don't
want to end up like you. You know, I remember
seeing just these these red flags and they became glaring.
When the first one was he said, you have to
quit your job if you want to marry me, and
I had to make this choice right and I loved
(21:23):
my job, which took me years to get this job.
And um, so I called my mother and I said,
I'm not going through with it. I'm not doing I'm
not marrying this guy. I just it just doesn't feel right.
I have to go with my gut. He's controlling, he's abusive.
I just it's just it's not right. You know, I'm
not his property, right. Why didn't he Why didn't want
you to quit your job? He wanted me to quit
my job because I was working for his talent right,
(21:46):
by the way, I don't have a small penis. Things
we learn, Uh, we don't have to, by the way.
But you know, when you when you you think you
don't deserve better, you know. And also like I thought
I was marrying the nicest Guy's always I was marrying
the nice guy, the nicest guy in the world. You know, Oh, totally.
(22:07):
You just it's so amazing how they hid it for
so long, you know, and the penisbe there's a but
what did your mom say? So the reason he wanted
me to quit my job was because we were both
working at talent agencies. And he said quote, there will
not be two agents in this family. And so what
I didn't realize then that I know now is I
never understood that a man could be jealous of a woman.
(22:29):
Didn't know it. And so my I remember my guy
friends were like, oh, he's just jealous. I'm like, that's
so stupid. Why would a guy be jealous of his fiance.
That's so weird. But we're so much more evolved today anyway,
And so I called my mom and I said, I'm
not going through with this. I'm not doing it. And
she said, you will embarrass the whole family. Oh dear
(22:50):
that nothing could be worse than that. And I remember
sitting between this rock and a hard place. I remember
where I sat, literally, I remember it was like it
was yesterday, and I thought, oh my god, like this
is just and then she said the classic, you know,
most unevolved immigrant thing, which was just get married. It'll
get better. I remember when I went to my parents
(23:13):
and my dad was very evolved. He was a divorce lawyer,
and I said, it's not really working out. We've been
married about a year. It's not really working out. I'm
not that happy. And he said, well, does he beat you?
Does he drink too much and did he cheat on you?
And if none of those things happened, like, what's the problem.
This is my dad's not wild. It's a different time. Yeah,
they grew up in a different time. Does he have
(23:35):
to beat you anyway? All right? So you get married,
you have the girls, who've got two daughters. Yes, and
you know when you when people always say like, well,
that's why it had to happen, And I think in hindsight, no,
I think the girls. I mean like they would have happened.
They would have happened right like today, And I like,
I wish I had this great sperm donor right, you
(23:55):
know what I mean, and then I would have had
my girl and not have had to go through that
henious divorce, which you know, like I had to live through.
Oh my god, Oh my god. It was. It took
a long time until I found your firm, okay, And
then I didn't even represent Sella by the way. My
partner Melanie did and she's wonderful but firm and and
(24:16):
and what it was crazy because I didn't want to
go to this like big firm. I want to just
get it done and easy and painlessly. And the lawyers
made it so awful. And do you think ultimately though
you and he were to blame for that? I mean,
I always you really do think it was the lawyer.
I think he was to blame. Okay, And I think
his lawyer was just ridiculous. And did you were you
(24:39):
in a better financial position? Did you end up paying
him support and having to give half to him? Um? No,
thanks to you guys, okay, Um no. I And that's
what I said at the time, because I said, I
don't want anything. You can have the money, you can
have the house, you can have the cars. I've been poor.
It's just money. I'll make more. I just want sam
(25:00):
for the kids. That said, I want my daughters to
have just some sanity, some stability, and not grow up
at home where there's constant fighting. I don't want them
to hear you put me down, right. So to those
who say stay together for the kids, you say, I say,
that's crazy. That's the worst thing you could do. Okay,
get a part for the kids, and be better separately
(25:22):
for the kids. Be better parents separately, you know, be
a great mom and dad separately. Do you think and
this may be hard to say in retrospect, But do
you think if your marriage had either ended sooner gone
down differently, if you didn't even get married at all
and just had the two kids, you guys would be
able to have been better co parents if it didn't
get so ugly, if there weren't such a scorched earth
policy because of the lawyers and because of all that,
(25:45):
do you think it would have been better? Or do
you think you two never just would have been able
to get along. I think we would have never. I
think once I came into my own and one day
like it clicked and I said, I'm taking my power back.
I grew, I grew into myself, I became stronger and wiser,
and I just think he couldn't handle my strength, you know.
(26:06):
And I wanted my daughters to grow up strong. I
wanted them to grow up as their own young women.
And I've always taught them to like have a voice,
and I will advocate for them. You know, when they
when they were little, I said, just tell me what
you know, and I will be your voice. I will
advocate for you and until you can self advocate, which
you know they're they're doing now. So well, how old
(26:27):
are they? Sixteen and thirteen? Okay, when did they kind
of come into their own? I know the older one
is doing a little bit of her own now because
I see but is it right around the teens. Yeah,
they're they're starting. Like I'm watching my thirteen year old,
they come into her own now. And I'm so proud
of them because they know how to self advocate. They
know what's right, they know what's wrong, they know how
(26:49):
to not how they don't want will never be spoken to.
They know what they will allow. They don't need a boyfriend.
Like I watched so many teenage girls want a boyfriend.
They don't need a boyfriend, you know. And and I
think I think that's the one thing that I'm proud
that I've taught them is focus on yourselves for your education,
your power, your voice, your self esteem, you know your career,
(27:10):
and then one day, when you're ready, you'll know who
that right guy is. You know. My girlfriend said to
me yesterday, don't you want your daughters to get married?
I said, what would have been the dark ages? And
I don't. I actually don't want them to get married.
I want them to get married if they want to
get man. You want them to be happy. I want
them to be happy. Is there any philanthropy that you're
involved in. I support a lot of organizations for young girls.
(27:32):
I do a lot of mentoring as much as I can.
And you know, like Janey's Fund is a great organization,
you know, because it helps girls who are aged out
of the foster system and so where they going to go?
You know, when you want them to have a life
and a career and and and step into a world
that gives them something. So I think that's important. That's
a really great organization. Back to this for a second.
(27:54):
So working in Hollywood, being kind of a single mom
and and doing what you do and what you've kind
of pie in the heard in terms of reality with
all of the clients that you've worked with, what do
you see in terms of the change over the last
I'd say ten years with with times up me too.
I mean, you are a ball buster. Anybody that knows
you knows this. So I want to hear your thoughts
like that. Laura. I love this question, okay, because it's
(28:17):
unbelievable how times have changed. Right, So when I would
raise my voice and I don't mean like actually raise it,
but like raise my voice, women would oh my god,
she's crazy, you know, she's so what is she saying?
You know, how could she say this? You know what
I mean? And today, like cut to ten years later,
(28:39):
you know what I mean, It's incredible how it's all
happening around us. And I'm like, oh, not so crazy anymore. Right,
And that was anywhere, whether it's in the workplace or
in school, I'll never forget. Like in school, we had
a headmaster and I said, oh, he's just the wrong
he's just not a fit, Like he doesn't understand the
evolution of young girls, you know what I mean. And
nobody really understood what that meant. And today we're finding that,
(29:02):
like girls have a voice. So how does that feel
being you who's always had that voice? Which just feels great,
you know, like I don't have to go on the
news and and and and talk about like, oh wow,
I'm so amazing, Like I just know who I am inside,
you know, when I know who my daughters are. And
if you want to know you just look at my
kids and I'm proud that they are so strong and
(29:22):
and people say, well, oh, well they grew up without
a dad, so yes, so do you know what I mean?
I grew up with a dad. So I tell people
all the time, you only need one good parent if
you've got to God, bless or throp all three. But
if you've got one, then that's fine. And that's what
I tell my clients, which is you just be the
(29:43):
best you you can be. You can't control anybody else.
You be the best parent you can be. Your kids
are gonna be fine. That's right. All right, let's bring
Liz back in. Um, you met her at the top
of the show, Stella, and I'm gonna have you guys
both share some advice with our audience about moving on
and thriving in next chapters. All right, rejoining Stella and
(30:03):
I now is my friend Liz, who you met at
the top of the show. So I want to ask
you both to share some advice with our audience about
moving on and thriving in the next chapter. So Stella,
starting with you moving on, coming out of a relationship,
grudge tucking, what what happens? That's funny? Grudge, Yeah, that's right.
Revenge fucking no. Um no. On the contrary, I just
(30:26):
think just going from one relationship to the next, that's no,
that's bad. Like no no distractions, you know, like men
are such distractions from the last relationship, Like you don't
know what you did wrong because you're just moving so
fast and autopilot. I just think, take a minute to
focus on you in self care and like what do
you want and what do you love? And go shopping,
(30:47):
you know, shopping there you go like, okay, so that's
the self love is shopping spot day? Like what is
it for you? How what is self care? I'm not
seeing you guys like a big like meditation kind of right. No,
I'm not trying to offend anyone, but you know, I
just I just think like being able to be alone,
(31:08):
you know what I mean, Lizz is nodding, Well, you've
been alone for two weeks because you've had the flu.
But able to be in your own head and not
want to kill yourself or somebody, you know what I mean.
Being able to live in your own head and and
like it. You know, I think that's the most important thing,
because we distrapped ourselves by dating the next guy and
the next guy, and then we don't even realize what
we're doing wrong, you know, And I think that's what's
(31:29):
so I was going to piggyback off that I'm not
going to physically get on you. Although I might, like
I might let you look at special, but I think
there's a lot of truths into how to be alone,
right and everybody you break up and you know what
do they say the best way to get over somebody's
(31:50):
get under? Yeah, I don't think I always found Oh wait, no, no,
I mean yes, yeah, yes, Okay, Like they leave, they
to leave you, and most of them don't want to
leave if they like, I don't want that, Charlie Sheen say,
you don't pay them to come, you pay them to leave. Yeah,
that's by the way, most like real life good you know,
(32:10):
words to live by Charlie Sheen winning. Yeah. I always
references when I'm like, just what do I do next?
Charlie Sheen, what would he say? Okay, So, Liz, what
about you? Besides you know, taking time for yourself? What's
how's your self care? You are a yoga girl? Um
(32:31):
some pictures in public bathrooms to post on Instagram? Pizza,
lots of pizza. I do the self care. I'm a
big fan of the self care, Like get a facial workout.
Are a new lawyer, high pick a fight? So if
you can't reopen a case, I'm kidding. Do you guys
(32:52):
both have a big chunk of girlfriends, good support system girlfriends.
I do. Still, I know you have your girls and
you're with them a lot, you know, Like I have
a lot of girlfriends, but I've learned to not call
them when I when I've made up my mind to
do something, because they might do what your mom did
to your mom on the day before her wedding and
(33:15):
said I can't do this, and mom said, you're going
to embarrass the family. Just get married and all get better.
Can you imagine? Oh no, oh no, are you guys?
But you guys? Are you guys? Are good? You and
your mom work, You know, we're good. In quotes, we
have to assume she's not listening to this podcast. We
have to assume she's going to be and this is
it's a wrap. Okay, maybe I'll maybe she won't call
forty times a day, just maybe once a week. I
(33:37):
was going to say, you have to limit how much
you dump on your friends. I have learned that, like
you can't use your friends as therapists trying to. Have
learned that your friends, your girlfriends at a certain age,
will project onto you, and so I don't want that. Like,
once I've made up my mind, I don't need you,
know what I mean, Like i'd rather have I don't
(33:58):
want to know, you know what I mean, Like less
you're paying my mortgage, like honestly, like like just like
like fuck your opinion. I have a cocktail and then
my decision. That's right. Like I just think, like i'd
rather go with my girlfriends for cocktails and just to
like I don't really like I kind of get it
at this point, right or wrong, you know what I mean?
Like I know what I'm doing right, and I know
(34:19):
what I'm doing, and I know what's right for me
or wrong for me, and like what are they going
to tell me? I only figured out now in my
advanced age that it's cool to be alone. I used
to always have to like have a boyfriend would be
going out or my friend would say, we'll just go
on the date. It's a date. That's not actually the
best advice. I don't just raise you. It's not just cool,
(34:40):
it's fucking great. I love being alone. Yeah, wow with
my Apple TV farting. Yeah, and there's so much to watch.
But let me ask you a question. Laura's let down
She's like, no, no, no no, I feel like we've gone
down a khole here the affair and a way. But
(35:01):
but here's my question. When you do date, okay, how
many dates until you sleep with the person? Oh? Boy,
well I've messed this one up. Immediately you see them
that night and then yeah, man, when I see them again,
you don't need to date. That's the thing, Like, it's
do we need to date? Like? What is a date?
People dinner? My girlfrim and starting there, I don't know
(35:22):
what is a date? We can buy our own salmon. Well,
I'm not saying he has to pay. I'm just saying
you do you have a meal? If you want to
talk to them, that necessary. I'm too old for small talk.
Just put it in here and go home wherever the
funk you live. We don't even want to get in
your care by oh my god, Daniel, maybe they'll start
(35:45):
the Washington where all they mean? If I hear a
man tell me about his I just don't give a fun.
It's my fucking mommy. I'm not your therapist. Out of here. Okay. Really,
I'm I'm pulling in twenties some things, or sixties some things.
(36:07):
I'm not I'm missing in the middle. I'm actually not,
I'm a repellent. It might have been the line about
do we even need to hear them talk? I'm not
your mommy, but your therapist, fuck you. That might have
been we may have look in the female movement too
far and wonder woman where they live on the island.
(36:30):
There's no men where. That's where we are with Johnny
and Daniel. But who Yeah, your wild side, Laura brings
out like a wild side fierceness. All right, now, I'm
in a Miranda right by the way that you see
my thing? Like if I was on a trip with
girlfriends or whatever, and a guy would say, like, what's
your name, might say Miranda Rice, and maybe they wouldn't
get it. Ever, funny I know anyway. Alright, stell Endless,
(36:54):
do you both sort to tell the truth, the whole
truth and nothing but the truth? Yes, I'm not asking
what you looked at her first? She said, fair enough, Liz, first,
which relationship in your life has had the most profound impact?
Being a mother? I would say because for a variety
(37:14):
of reasons, but mostly because you realize when you become
a parent, how many sacrifices your parents either made or didn't,
So it's shocking. I immediately kind of I never had
a good relationship with my dad. Shucker sucker, um, but
I was really furious after I had my son. I
(37:38):
kind of cut him out more. And it's my biggest relationship.
Because you don't want to repeat all the stuff that
your parents did, but look at me, I'm doing it.
I'm repeating it real good. No, you are a good mom, Stella.
What's your most profound relationship, the one that impacted you
the most. I have to piggyback on, you know, Okay,
(38:01):
we are all. I'm pregnant. We're mind fucking um. My
daughters are you know? My daughters are my conscious They
really are. You know. I've started really listening to what
they have to say because I used to just listen
to them, but not here because they're your kids and
there's so much talking here. But if you really stop
(38:23):
and listen to them, God, they're just kids, are smart,
and they bring a new way of looking at rings.
It's really they're very intuitive. Can you imagine if she
and I both had like random answers like this guy
Tom he was actually when I got her, that's like
(38:43):
fourteen canisters of empty aim. Okay, Stella favorite love song?
My favorite love song is a landslide. Oh, such a
good one, which I will tell you drove me to
get divorced. Really yep, Okay, we'll get a clip of that.
I heard it in the car. I was driving on
(39:04):
the canyon and I literally heard it. I was going
to divorce or I'm gonna drive off. Let's just at
that second song. How about you, Liz, what's yours? You
can't piggyback. You gotta have your own song. Ain't no mountain?
Who needs the supreme? Yeah? When we carrie? All right, Liz,
(39:29):
what's the one piece of advice you'd share with your
twenty something your old self pregnant being two pm, you're
gonna be okay? Oh I like that. And you can
be alone for one night? Okay, one night. You weren't
even alone for one night. Let's forget. Let's not forget.
I was married most but during my one single year
(39:52):
of my twenties, I was never alone. I was always out.
I was always out. I knew what day of the week,
it was, by what club, what's happening? You know? That
was back here in l A. Yeah, I think I said, so, oh,
I'm sure not only did I see you? Was there
some piggy Stella? What about you? The one piece of
(40:14):
advice you'd share with your twenty year old self that
you don't need a boyfriend? Yes? Yes, okay and Stella?
Which romantic comedy could you watch on repeat? Okay? What
I do? I watched? What is it? It's a stupid
crazy lover crazy. I just put it on fall Asleep,
Love Goods, Annie, I can turn it on any classic.
(40:35):
Daniel's over there nodding. Okay, yes, alright, kids, Thank you
so much for joining us today, and all's fair. Tell
people where they can follow you and what's important to
you online and stay up to date with you. Liz,
you can follow me at the Liz carry Terry is
c A R E y guys, and also your website.
This is an opportunity to talk about I am a
(40:57):
voter dot com. Oh yes, remember bird to vote. I
am a voter dot com is someplace that I love
to promote and talk about. And right now, if you
don't get out and vote or prepare or register, don't
we don't complain and lights out with David Spade Air's
Weekly on Comedy Central. It's on at eleven thirty five,
(41:19):
So if you watch eleven thirty just relax, it's coming.
It's coming. I'm not always on, so sorry, if you're
watching and she's not on, you could just start it
off until the next time. At it still got still
got plenty of funny people on that and Stella. How
about you? What's your insta? My god, my last name
is too long to spell. You can go my website
(41:40):
Wicked TV with two k's w I k k e
d tv dot com. Otherwise we'll go to the porn site.
I think, oh yeah, that one hair going out. I
think you guys are they were awesome. I told you
that we could kind of they would start getting along
once we got into it. I hope. I mean they
(42:00):
ended up they left together. Yeah, okay, with that that
whole roundtable confers, I think there's gonna be some piggybacking.
Thanks for listening to the All's Fair podcast. Rate us
at Apple Podcast, and follow us at It's Over Easy
on social media. Let's speak again, same time next week. Bye,
Hi there. It's me Laura Wasser, the divorce attorney and
the founder of It's over Easy, the online divorce service.
I've been practicing family law for over twenty years, and
I've worked on thousands of divorces, shepherding people through what
may be one of the most terrifying times in their lives.
Along the way, I often have to remind people to
(00:23):
lower their expectations when dealing with matters of the heart.
Rules simply don't apply because all's fair in love and war.
Hi everyone, I'm Laura Wasser, I'm Johnny Rains and this
is All's Fair, a podcast about love and war and
everything in between. How does that old proverb go, All's
(00:44):
fair in love and war? Yes, and it's often used
to describe a situation in which people let their emotions
rule their actions and do things which, to say the
very least, are normally considered unfair. In my many years
of practicing family law, I often have to remind people
that their expectations that things will be fair when dealing
with matters of the heart are totally unrealistic. And this
(01:06):
is why we named the podcast All's Fair to embody
the notion that today's modern families and the current nature
and evolution of romantic, platonic and sexual relationships are ripe
for interesting discussions. And speaking of ripe, that article in
the Cardian that you sent me about the brave new
world of conscious non monogamy is just bursting with possibilities,
(01:26):
don't you think? That's what I do early in the mornings.
I that so this is the article that I sent you.
There's zero evidence that it's worse for children parenting in
a polyamorous relationship. Yeah, so what do you think about that?
I think that um Man Cub sixteen is the child
of a polyamorous parents parental relationship living in north Hamptonshire,
(01:51):
and he quite simply calls them my adults. Cassie his mom,
Josh's dad, and Amanda their partners. So they're a throuble. Yeah,
we laugh, throuble here in any event that you guys
can find that on what is it? The Guardian? Yeah,
the Guardian. And I think the main point of the
article is that polyamorous families don't screw their kids up
any more or less than families. I didn't even know
(02:13):
what you call traditional families these days boring Anyway, My
point has proven once again, and our conversation about modern families, love, war,
and how to survive everything in between continues all season,
So tap subscribe so you don't miss a beat. Today,
you're going to meet two close friends of mine. When
you do date, okay, how many dates until you sleep
(02:35):
with the person? Oh? Boy, well I've messed this one up.
Immediately you see them that night and then yeah, man,
when I see them again. You don't need to date?
Thing like, it's do we need to date? Like? What
is a date? People? Din my girl family starting? I
don't know what is a date? We can buy our
own salmon. Well, I'm not saying he has to pay.
I'm just saying you do you have a meal? That necessary?
(03:01):
I'm too old for small talk here and go home.
They're super different, but one thing that they have in
common is that they've been through hell and back. If
they can do it, I think you can too. But
how did they do it? Let's ask our first guest.
She's the comedian, actress and writer whom the Hive calls
a talented triple threat. You've read her work in print
(03:23):
and publications like The Strategist, Polyester, and Overheard. You've seen
her on True TVs Fameless with David Spade. She's also
had seen Stealing turns and films such as Alexander and
The Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day, the Four
year Old Version, and Spanglish. You can currently find her
on Lights Out with David Spade on Comedy Central, and
perhaps most importantly, she's a mom, so I knew she
(03:44):
hates fart jokes, so we sent her out into the
streets of Hollywood, hooked up to a fart machine that
I controlled, and I put in her purse, and then
I had her interview people with fake questions. This one's
a real thinker. Let's do it. So do you live
here now? I'm from New York. I'm leaving tomorrow, so yeah,
(04:05):
it squeeze in your last night? Um got drunk? Hoday?
Do you do you have a dog? No? I'm so
allergic to dogs. Do they think that Instagram is having
a negative effect on people at all? Not really, but
(04:26):
it can be used in a bad way and intermittent fast.
What would you say the most beautiful thing you've seen
in Los Angeles has been excuse me, I'm really that
(04:47):
was such a lovely thing to say. And I have
to ruin it. Um, you know what, I think that
one actually got away from me. Please welcome my friend
Liz Carrie. Oh my god, welcome to all s fairless Carrie.
How's your How is your stomach? I'm okay, Yeah, I'm
intolerant apparently to everything. Yes, I mean I knew that
(05:10):
you had had a little something. Yeah, you look very thin,
but usually it's the hot air coming out of my mouth.
So tell us a little bit about your relationship history. Dear,
not that I haven't been there every dr ruth here. Well,
I got married when I was nineteen, which is I
(05:32):
think a smart time. You're very you know who you
are as a person, and my parents were thrilled was
in another country. Um, so gave that one of good
seven years, which I think is commendable. Seven years. I
know you know what I think is commendable. That you
(05:52):
didn't have a baby in that marriage. Well, right, go you.
But then, actually, when we think about it, when it's
but um, came back here, took a little year off
in America, dated and then did another seven year relationship
minus a marriage. Right, but added in the child, got it?
(06:13):
Because you want to make sure you have no I
do want to legal ties or any financial to someone
with whom you have a child. So that's good on you.
I do feel like this is a question that you
could answer that. Everybody is always shocked when I tell
them I was with somebody for seven years and we
had a baby together, and they always say, oh, well,
(06:34):
you're kind of law marriage. No, it doesn't exist, right,
No common law marriage in California. Do you hear that? People?
But is common law marriage legal anywhere? Yeah? There are
some states that recognize it, and I don't. I can't.
I wouldn't be able to tell you all of them
unless I looked it up. But I gotta say it's
like I think Colorado does. In certain states, it has
(06:55):
to be before sometime in the nineties. Georgia, Idaho, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, Kansas, Montana.
I'm not reading this, it's totally coming off my very
can't wait brain from in any of it. Yes, there
are states that recognized common law marriage. California is not
one of them. So sucks for you, Liz. It does
(07:17):
suck for me. I forgot to mention in my teen
marriage as we all have a team marriage marriage. Yeah,
the starter when my solicitor. She said, well, her first
thing was can you get pregnant? And I said, well,
I think we're a little past that because I'm here
for the divorce and all. And she said, well, England
(07:38):
doesn't really acknowledge anything less than ten years our job.
And she flat out said this we protected the man
in his castle. Oh my goodness. Wow? Why yeah not?
This was with a merit. This was in the two thousands,
if you will. Wow. Anyways, when I add that in,
(08:00):
I thought that was fun. That is fun. Fun fact
tell us about so so, I I know because I
know you that you are like the go to person
for a lot of people to talk about their relationships
because it's always like, you know, when you think everything
just couldn't get worse, I can make it. This is
my situation. I should have a legal degree at this point.
(08:22):
A lot of my friends do come to me and
the advice that I give them, and I wish I
would like to preface that. I don't know if I'm
using that correctly, but I would like to say I
am the owner of two engagement rings. Well there, so
that so you've got a little bit of experience. By
the way, like to give a plug too worthy. Our affiliate,
which is an online engagement ring consignment center. Perhaps you
(08:44):
can get rid of those rings and actually, you know,
upgrade on that. Yeah, you know what. I made one
into a necklace and one's just too pretty. Frankly, right,
you have to just by times dance around your apartment
wearing it exactly. I do feel like that gives me
already to give advice to a group of women that
have no engagement, right, who do you want to listen to?
(09:06):
The one with not agree? I agree, but yes, my
point was listening to Laura would have been helpful. You
can't really see the forest through the trees when you're
that upset. And I've had a lot of friends come
to me now asking for advice, and I always say,
be I know, it's like so hard right now to
even imagine being nice to this person. And Laura tried
(09:30):
to beat this into me, and my friends tried to
beat this into me. But truly, if you can be nice,
even if it kills you, that will dictate, especially if
you have kids, it's going it's going to dictate the
rest of your life. It's true. And it's hard to
come back from some things that we do during that first,
(09:51):
I mean burning the person's car interior completely that you
know who did that? That I want to clarify. That's
how how about the whole um one arm or leg
of every item of clothing in the persons which, by
the way, this happened to a friend of mine. He
didn't even realize this until he was packed and on
(10:14):
his way somewhere, and every shirt only had one arm,
and every fair of pants I only had one leg.
And I never really liked his girlfriend until I heard that,
and I was like, why did you give her up?
That was good? Slow cloup, Yes, I think a little.
And again this goes for even the small things to like,
don't react to that techno so fast. Just wait a second,
(10:35):
think about it. If you have to text, you know,
just a cathartic text, do it, but don't send it.
Send it to a friend. That's the best advice. Because
we have to get this, by the way, which is okay,
I mean it's taken me seven years to calm down.
That's crazy. But we communicate on this thing called our
family wizard. I'm sure that's been discussed on this podcast. Um.
(10:56):
I for a lot of my friends used this. Now
when I started using it in the early nineteen forties.
Um it was foreign everyone right, so I it was
hard to get the pigeon to go right to his
all over smallpox. Anyway, I've been offering to write a
few for people. Yes, oh, I Sarah know a lot
(11:17):
of things for people. Because you're too angry. I was like,
just you don't have to answer at this second, like
go to bed, right, And that's again. Our Family Wizard
is one of these apps or sites where you can
put stuff on to your ex and it is only
accessible by the two of you or someone you give
the code to, including a judge, so the judge can see.
(11:39):
So all of those text messages that you want to
send saying you fucking dick whatever, you don't send those
a little red flag. It's like if you're getting a
little heated, hey lady, you might want to down there.
But there are our Family Wizard. One is one. Co
parent has one, Fair has one. Now there's so many.
They make it for us or just hit me up
(12:04):
tons of her word limit. We're going to give you
her info at the end. So how do you keep
your cool? How do I keep my cool? I don't
know if I do I've only just learned now how
to keep my cool through my friends telling me you
actually need to keep your cool. So when you were
(12:26):
with your husband, your starter marriage, you went through creating
like a separation agreement. Um, we had a regular old
school divorce, so we'll put that one. That one was
actually pretty normal. I did a separation agreement with my
son's baby daddy, which I will say is a smart
thing to do, and that's before you're separated. This is
(12:47):
what would happen if like a cohabitation agreement kind of.
We we started to have some arguments when when the
stork brought the baby. That's how babies and I didn't
have any we were married. I asked for a separation agreement.
I would imagine it's similar to going through a post nup.
So you're sort of breaking up while you're together, which
(13:09):
is always I think, super fun. Make sure you sign
that piece of paper. Oh snap, so you doing that?
What happened not so much with the signing, Not so
much with the signing. Okay, So yeah, you guys. Another
thing that I do hear a lot in my line
of work is like we almost did. We had a
(13:30):
pre nup, but she didn't sign. We had a separation agreement,
and we worked so hard to get all the terms
we didn't sign. You gotta sign it, folks. It doesn't
work until it's signed. Well, this is Los Angeles, where
there's a lot of cooks in these kitchens. Maybe when you,
you know, isolate into the middle of America, you have
less cooks in the kitchen. We had too many cooks
(13:51):
in the kitchen, and I thought things were getting done. Yes,
make sure you're an alive human being. Woman or man.
Asked to see that piece of paper right and then
and then a copy of it somewhere. It's easy enough
to do these days. But really that is true. Another
thing I see happening a lot the entertainment industry is
you all don't seem to sign your contracts with your lawyers,
(14:13):
your agents, or your managers. Like our firm, we don't
start working for you until you sign the retainer letter,
which makes us legally obligated to help you in the
most you know, reasonable and and sage legal way, and
you have to pay us. And so we're real big
about that signing thing. And I think you know, someboy
people like, well, we really this was our intention I'm like,
(14:34):
I don't give a funk about your intention if that
thing is not signed. So sign the papers. It might
sound so obvious, but I can't tell you how many
people don't sign. I feel like we're really breaking down
walls today. We learned. We learned that you have to
sign pieces of paper and common law marriage does not
exactly except not but not here, not in our place. Right.
(14:55):
So now one more thing before we bring in our tops.
Liz thriving after divorce, let's talk about your dating profile? Um,
and do you always lead with the kid or do
you How does that work? I was going to ask
you that, I mean you you're in a relationship, Johnny,
I don't know what you're Magan, I didn't marry Yeah,
(15:17):
fun thriving and striving yeah, and surviving sting. I would say,
how am I thriving? Well? Know, what's your dating profile? Oh?
My dating profile? It's one sentence, just looking for anyone
that enjoys sarcasm. Okay, that's good. Not Canadians then, right,
(15:40):
and what about the kid? They don't know about been
on dating apps though? It's hysterical. It's every dude you
know in this city. But they're holding one of two things,
a camera which makes them a national geographic photographer, right,
or all of my eating friends holding their creative Emmy's
(16:02):
and I'm like, no, you are so embarrassing. This isn't
even a real emmy. This is just you being five
foot to holding a creative emmy in your living room
that you live with your mother. And I'm not gonna
Oh no, I'm going to get you a date anyway.
I I don't advertise my child on the dating app
(16:24):
because I feel like it's soils It soils him. I
don't want that for him. So what date or correspondence
do you? Actually? There is the reveal once ire them
inside of you, once I lure them in with my
saucy yoga sarcasm with my flu right, um, I hit
(16:46):
them with the kid. You gotta get that. You gotta
tell them about the can't right away? I agree? All right?
So now Johnny's signaling me maybe he wants to date you.
Don't happening He's married though, right I'm at those could
be a throuble. Like the polyamorous relationships. You are no
(17:06):
worse for parenting, can I think Johnny would be? The
dating apps are crazy because everybody wants open relationships now,
by the way, which basically they just want to hook up.
What that means. We've just been speaking with my hilarious friend, comedian,
actress and writer Liz Carrey about her breakup, and now
(17:27):
I'm going to introduce you to another dear friend of
mine whose real divorce story is sadly all too common,
but nevertheless, she is determined to thrive after surviving her
devastating divorce. She's a prolific producer. Try saying that ten
times fast. She's been nominated for Golden Globe for her
working unscripted and in fact, she has credited with launching
the celeb reality genre and kick starting the global reality
(17:49):
TV movement. She's a philanthropist and a fierce advocate for
women's rights. She's also a mom and a survivor. Welcome
to all's fair, Stella, that's so sexy. So tell us
a little bit about your personal history, because I know it,
but not everybody knows it. And I bet even some
of the people who know you don't even know that
you guys came here from Russia when you were a baby. Yeah,
(18:12):
I came on as a baby and I was raised
by immigrant parents. We were, I mean just super unevolved,
I would say, you know, and and I think the
philosophy was too, really just there was no emphasis on education.
It was really an emphasis on you have to find
a man. You have to get married. You know, this
(18:33):
is the most important thing you could do. And if
you don't have a man, you're worthless. Well what about
your grandma? You know, my gifted generation. You know, my
grandma was married her whole life and she was in
uh just the relationship was It's wild. The community stays
in relationships that aren't healthy, and as a child growing up,
(18:54):
you look at these relationships, like my grandfather was an
alcoholic and my grandmother was miserable of her whole life,
as strong as she was, and even though she was
a Holocaust survivor, she stayed in this preposterous marriage. And
the same with my mother, who followed that pattern. You
know my dad too, I mean, he was I hate
to say the woman, hate to say it, but he
wasn't a functioning alcoholic. And my mother just spend her
(19:16):
whole life yelling and growing up in this environment. You know,
I don't know I yell, but you know, I only
yell It's funny when I'm passionate about something and you
are passionate. But when I don't care anymore is when
I shut down, and it's not worth the energy. Yelling
is energy, you know. But my mom would yell and
she would fight this, and I would say, I think
(19:37):
to myself, because again your child, and you're not sophisticated,
and you don't understand what is happening, and you think
this is a normal relationship, where this is how it's
supposed to be, because the whole family is fighting. I mean,
the wives are yelling at their husbands and you. And
as soon as I was old enough on that, and
actually I wasn't even old enough. I remember just becoming
a teenager and you know, like wanting to go to
the right high school and like wanting to, you know,
(19:59):
just get an education. And they're like, do you have
a boyfriend? Like do I have a boyfriend? And and
I said, no, I don't have a boyfriend. WHA are
you a lesbian? And I remember thinking like it's either
a boyfriend or a lesbian, do you know, Like there's
no like, no, I want to go to school, like
I don't want a boyfriend, and none of my aunts
understood that, you know, and so did everyone come over
(20:20):
at the same time everyone and everyone ended up in Flatbush.
Everyone ended up in Brooklyn and this community, in this
Russian community, and so that was the philosophy, was that
you had to be married and have children. Everyone stayed
in this community. And so when I left Brooklyn and
I came to Los Angeles, and I'll never forget like
(20:40):
when I met my boyfriend who became my husband and
the father of my kids. I remember we were about
to get married and I you know, you see red flags,
but you don't want to see red flags. And then
you see these glaring red flags, and I remember doing
the biggest mistake of my life, which was calling my
mother and saying, I'm not going to do this. I'm
not going to really, I'm not going to marry him,
(21:01):
because I this is not what I want from my life.
I could feel that he's controlling, he feels abusive. Um,
this just doesn't feel right to me, Like I don't
want to end up like you. You know, I remember
seeing just these these red flags and they became glaring.
When the first one was he said, you have to
quit your job if you want to marry me, and
I had to make this choice right and I loved
(21:23):
my job, which took me years to get this job.
And um, so I called my mother and I said,
I'm not going through with it. I'm not doing I'm
not marrying this guy. I just it just doesn't feel right.
I have to go with my gut. He's controlling, he's abusive.
I just it's just it's not right. You know, I'm
not his property, right. Why didn't he Why didn't want
you to quit your job? He wanted me to quit
my job because I was working for his talent right,
(21:46):
by the way, I don't have a small penis. Things
we learn, Uh, we don't have to, by the way.
But you know, when you when you you think you
don't deserve better, you know. And also like I thought
I was marrying the nicest Guy's always I was marrying
the nice guy, the nicest guy in the world. You know, Oh, totally.
(22:07):
You just it's so amazing how they hid it for
so long, you know, and the penisbe there's a but
what did your mom say? So the reason he wanted
me to quit my job was because we were both
working at talent agencies. And he said quote, there will
not be two agents in this family. And so what
I didn't realize then that I know now is I
never understood that a man could be jealous of a woman.
(22:29):
Didn't know it. And so my I remember my guy
friends were like, oh, he's just jealous. I'm like, that's
so stupid. Why would a guy be jealous of his fiance.
That's so weird. But we're so much more evolved today anyway,
And so I called my mom and I said, I'm
not going through with this. I'm not doing it. And
she said, you will embarrass the whole family. Oh dear
(22:50):
that nothing could be worse than that. And I remember
sitting between this rock and a hard place. I remember
where I sat, literally, I remember it was like it
was yesterday, and I thought, oh my god, like this
is just and then she said the classic, you know,
most unevolved immigrant thing, which was just get married. It'll
get better. I remember when I went to my parents
(23:13):
and my dad was very evolved. He was a divorce lawyer,
and I said, it's not really working out. We've been
married about a year. It's not really working out. I'm
not that happy. And he said, well, does he beat you?
Does he drink too much and did he cheat on you?
And if none of those things happened, like, what's the problem.
This is my dad's not wild. It's a different time. Yeah,
they grew up in a different time. Does he have
(23:35):
to beat you anyway? All right? So you get married,
you have the girls, who've got two daughters. Yes, and
you know when you when people always say like, well,
that's why it had to happen, And I think in hindsight, no,
I think the girls. I mean like they would have happened.
They would have happened right like today, And I like,
I wish I had this great sperm donor right, you
(23:55):
know what I mean, and then I would have had
my girl and not have had to go through that
henious divorce, which you know, like I had to live through.
Oh my god, Oh my god. It was. It took
a long time until I found your firm, okay, And
then I didn't even represent Sella by the way. My
partner Melanie did and she's wonderful but firm and and
(24:16):
and what it was crazy because I didn't want to
go to this like big firm. I want to just
get it done and easy and painlessly. And the lawyers
made it so awful. And do you think ultimately though
you and he were to blame for that? I mean,
I always you really do think it was the lawyer.
I think he was to blame. Okay, And I think
his lawyer was just ridiculous. And did you were you
(24:39):
in a better financial position? Did you end up paying
him support and having to give half to him? Um? No,
thanks to you guys, okay, Um no. I And that's
what I said at the time, because I said, I
don't want anything. You can have the money, you can
have the house, you can have the cars. I've been poor.
It's just money. I'll make more. I just want sam
(25:00):
for the kids. That said, I want my daughters to
have just some sanity, some stability, and not grow up
at home where there's constant fighting. I don't want them
to hear you put me down, right. So to those
who say stay together for the kids, you say, I say,
that's crazy. That's the worst thing you could do. Okay,
get a part for the kids, and be better separately
(25:22):
for the kids. Be better parents separately, you know, be
a great mom and dad separately. Do you think and
this may be hard to say in retrospect, But do
you think if your marriage had either ended sooner gone
down differently, if you didn't even get married at all
and just had the two kids, you guys would be
able to have been better co parents if it didn't
get so ugly, if there weren't such a scorched earth
policy because of the lawyers and because of all that,
(25:45):
do you think it would have been better? Or do
you think you two never just would have been able
to get along. I think we would have never. I
think once I came into my own and one day
like it clicked and I said, I'm taking my power back.
I grew, I grew into myself, I became stronger and wiser,
and I just think he couldn't handle my strength, you know.
(26:06):
And I wanted my daughters to grow up strong. I
wanted them to grow up as their own young women.
And I've always taught them to like have a voice,
and I will advocate for them. You know, when they
when they were little, I said, just tell me what
you know, and I will be your voice. I will
advocate for you and until you can self advocate, which
you know they're they're doing now. So well, how old
(26:27):
are they? Sixteen and thirteen? Okay, when did they kind
of come into their own? I know the older one
is doing a little bit of her own now because
I see but is it right around the teens. Yeah,
they're they're starting. Like I'm watching my thirteen year old,
they come into her own now. And I'm so proud
of them because they know how to self advocate. They
know what's right, they know what's wrong, they know how
(26:49):
to not how they don't want will never be spoken to.
They know what they will allow. They don't need a boyfriend.
Like I watched so many teenage girls want a boyfriend.
They don't need a boyfriend, you know. And and I
think I think that's the one thing that I'm proud
that I've taught them is focus on yourselves for your education,
your power, your voice, your self esteem, you know your career,
(27:10):
and then one day, when you're ready, you'll know who
that right guy is. You know. My girlfriend said to
me yesterday, don't you want your daughters to get married?
I said, what would have been the dark ages? And
I don't. I actually don't want them to get married.
I want them to get married if they want to
get man. You want them to be happy. I want
them to be happy. Is there any philanthropy that you're
involved in. I support a lot of organizations for young girls.
(27:32):
I do a lot of mentoring as much as I can.
And you know, like Janey's Fund is a great organization,
you know, because it helps girls who are aged out
of the foster system and so where they going to go?
You know, when you want them to have a life
and a career and and and step into a world
that gives them something. So I think that's important. That's
a really great organization. Back to this for a second.
(27:54):
So working in Hollywood, being kind of a single mom
and and doing what you do and what you've kind
of pie in the heard in terms of reality with
all of the clients that you've worked with, what do
you see in terms of the change over the last
I'd say ten years with with times up me too.
I mean, you are a ball buster. Anybody that knows
you knows this. So I want to hear your thoughts
like that. Laura. I love this question, okay, because it's
(28:17):
unbelievable how times have changed. Right, So when I would
raise my voice and I don't mean like actually raise it,
but like raise my voice, women would oh my god,
she's crazy, you know, she's so what is she saying?
You know, how could she say this? You know what
I mean? And today, like cut to ten years later,
(28:39):
you know what I mean, It's incredible how it's all
happening around us. And I'm like, oh, not so crazy anymore. Right,
And that was anywhere, whether it's in the workplace or
in school, I'll never forget. Like in school, we had
a headmaster and I said, oh, he's just the wrong
he's just not a fit, Like he doesn't understand the
evolution of young girls, you know what I mean. And
nobody really understood what that meant. And today we're finding that,
(29:02):
like girls have a voice. So how does that feel
being you who's always had that voice? Which just feels great,
you know, like I don't have to go on the
news and and and and talk about like, oh wow,
I'm so amazing, Like I just know who I am inside,
you know, when I know who my daughters are. And
if you want to know you just look at my
kids and I'm proud that they are so strong and
(29:22):
and people say, well, oh, well they grew up without
a dad, so yes, so do you know what I mean?
I grew up with a dad. So I tell people
all the time, you only need one good parent if
you've got to God, bless or throp all three. But
if you've got one, then that's fine. And that's what
I tell my clients, which is you just be the
(29:43):
best you you can be. You can't control anybody else.
You be the best parent you can be. Your kids
are gonna be fine. That's right. All right, let's bring
Liz back in. Um, you met her at the top
of the show, Stella, and I'm gonna have you guys
both share some advice with our audience about moving on
and thriving in next chapters. All right, rejoining Stella and
(30:03):
I now is my friend Liz, who you met at
the top of the show. So I want to ask
you both to share some advice with our audience about
moving on and thriving in the next chapter. So Stella,
starting with you moving on, coming out of a relationship,
grudge tucking, what what happens? That's funny? Grudge, Yeah, that's right.
Revenge fucking no. Um no. On the contrary, I just
(30:26):
think just going from one relationship to the next, that's no,
that's bad. Like no no distractions, you know, like men
are such distractions from the last relationship, Like you don't
know what you did wrong because you're just moving so
fast and autopilot. I just think, take a minute to
focus on you in self care and like what do
you want and what do you love? And go shopping,
(30:47):
you know, shopping there you go like, okay, so that's
the self love is shopping spot day? Like what is
it for you? How what is self care? I'm not
seeing you guys like a big like meditation kind of right. No,
I'm not trying to offend anyone, but you know, I
just I just think like being able to be alone,
(31:08):
you know what I mean, Lizz is nodding, Well, you've
been alone for two weeks because you've had the flu.
But able to be in your own head and not
want to kill yourself or somebody, you know what I mean.
Being able to live in your own head and and
like it. You know, I think that's the most important thing,
because we distrapped ourselves by dating the next guy and
the next guy, and then we don't even realize what
we're doing wrong, you know, And I think that's what's
(31:29):
so I was going to piggyback off that I'm not
going to physically get on you. Although I might, like
I might let you look at special, but I think
there's a lot of truths into how to be alone,
right and everybody you break up and you know what
do they say the best way to get over somebody's
(31:50):
get under? Yeah, I don't think I always found Oh wait, no, no,
I mean yes, yeah, yes, Okay, Like they leave, they
to leave you, and most of them don't want to
leave if they like, I don't want that, Charlie Sheen say,
you don't pay them to come, you pay them to leave. Yeah,
that's by the way, most like real life good you know,
(32:10):
words to live by Charlie Sheen winning. Yeah. I always
references when I'm like, just what do I do next?
Charlie Sheen, what would he say? Okay, So, Liz, what
about you? Besides you know, taking time for yourself? What's
how's your self care? You are a yoga girl? Um
(32:31):
some pictures in public bathrooms to post on Instagram? Pizza,
lots of pizza. I do the self care. I'm a
big fan of the self care, Like get a facial workout.
Are a new lawyer, high pick a fight? So if
you can't reopen a case, I'm kidding. Do you guys
(32:52):
both have a big chunk of girlfriends, good support system girlfriends.
I do. Still, I know you have your girls and
you're with them a lot, you know, Like I have
a lot of girlfriends, but I've learned to not call
them when I when I've made up my mind to
do something, because they might do what your mom did
to your mom on the day before her wedding and
(33:15):
said I can't do this, and mom said, you're going
to embarrass the family. Just get married and all get better.
Can you imagine? Oh no, oh no, are you guys?
But you guys? Are you guys? Are good? You and
your mom work, You know, we're good. In quotes, we
have to assume she's not listening to this podcast. We
have to assume she's going to be and this is
it's a wrap. Okay, maybe I'll maybe she won't call
forty times a day, just maybe once a week. I
(33:37):
was going to say, you have to limit how much
you dump on your friends. I have learned that, like
you can't use your friends as therapists trying to. Have
learned that your friends, your girlfriends at a certain age,
will project onto you, and so I don't want that. Like,
once I've made up my mind, I don't need you,
know what I mean, Like i'd rather have I don't
(33:58):
want to know, you know what I mean, Like less
you're paying my mortgage, like honestly, like like just like
like fuck your opinion. I have a cocktail and then
my decision. That's right. Like I just think, like i'd
rather go with my girlfriends for cocktails and just to
like I don't really like I kind of get it
at this point, right or wrong, you know what I mean?
Like I know what I'm doing right, and I know
(34:19):
what I'm doing, and I know what's right for me
or wrong for me, and like what are they going
to tell me? I only figured out now in my
advanced age that it's cool to be alone. I used
to always have to like have a boyfriend would be
going out or my friend would say, we'll just go
on the date. It's a date. That's not actually the
best advice. I don't just raise you. It's not just cool,
(34:40):
it's fucking great. I love being alone. Yeah, wow with
my Apple TV farting. Yeah, and there's so much to watch.
But let me ask you a question. Laura's let down
She's like, no, no, no no, I feel like we've gone
down a khole here the affair and a way. But
(35:01):
but here's my question. When you do date, okay, how
many dates until you sleep with the person? Oh? Boy,
well I've messed this one up. Immediately you see them
that night and then yeah, man, when I see them again,
you don't need to date. That's the thing, Like, it's
do we need to date? Like? What is a date?
People dinner? My girlfrim and starting there, I don't know
(35:22):
what is a date? We can buy our own salmon. Well,
I'm not saying he has to pay. I'm just saying
you do you have a meal? If you want to
talk to them, that necessary. I'm too old for small talk.
Just put it in here and go home wherever the
funk you live. We don't even want to get in
your care by oh my god, Daniel, maybe they'll start
(35:45):
the Washington where all they mean? If I hear a
man tell me about his I just don't give a fun.
It's my fucking mommy. I'm not your therapist. Out of here. Okay. Really,
I'm I'm pulling in twenties some things, or sixties some things.
(36:07):
I'm not I'm missing in the middle. I'm actually not,
I'm a repellent. It might have been the line about
do we even need to hear them talk? I'm not
your mommy, but your therapist, fuck you. That might have
been we may have look in the female movement too
far and wonder woman where they live on the island.
(36:30):
There's no men where. That's where we are with Johnny
and Daniel. But who Yeah, your wild side, Laura brings
out like a wild side fierceness. All right, now, I'm
in a Miranda right by the way that you see
my thing? Like if I was on a trip with
girlfriends or whatever, and a guy would say, like, what's
your name, might say Miranda Rice, and maybe they wouldn't
get it. Ever, funny I know anyway. Alright, stell Endless,
(36:54):
do you both sort to tell the truth, the whole
truth and nothing but the truth? Yes, I'm not asking
what you looked at her first? She said, fair enough, Liz, first,
which relationship in your life has had the most profound impact?
Being a mother? I would say because for a variety
(37:14):
of reasons, but mostly because you realize when you become
a parent, how many sacrifices your parents either made or didn't,
So it's shocking. I immediately kind of I never had
a good relationship with my dad. Shucker sucker, um, but
I was really furious after I had my son. I
(37:38):
kind of cut him out more. And it's my biggest relationship.
Because you don't want to repeat all the stuff that
your parents did, but look at me, I'm doing it.
I'm repeating it real good. No, you are a good mom, Stella.
What's your most profound relationship, the one that impacted you
the most. I have to piggyback on, you know, Okay,
(38:01):
we are all. I'm pregnant. We're mind fucking um. My
daughters are you know? My daughters are my conscious They
really are. You know. I've started really listening to what
they have to say because I used to just listen
to them, but not here because they're your kids and
there's so much talking here. But if you really stop
(38:23):
and listen to them, God, they're just kids, are smart,
and they bring a new way of looking at rings.
It's really they're very intuitive. Can you imagine if she
and I both had like random answers like this guy
Tom he was actually when I got her, that's like
(38:43):
fourteen canisters of empty aim. Okay, Stella favorite love song?
My favorite love song is a landslide. Oh, such a
good one, which I will tell you drove me to
get divorced. Really yep, Okay, we'll get a clip of that.
I heard it in the car. I was driving on
(39:04):
the canyon and I literally heard it. I was going
to divorce or I'm gonna drive off. Let's just at
that second song. How about you, Liz, what's yours? You
can't piggyback. You gotta have your own song. Ain't no mountain?
Who needs the supreme? Yeah? When we carrie? All right, Liz,
(39:29):
what's the one piece of advice you'd share with your
twenty something your old self pregnant being two pm, you're
gonna be okay? Oh I like that. And you can
be alone for one night? Okay, one night. You weren't
even alone for one night. Let's forget. Let's not forget.
I was married most but during my one single year
(39:52):
of my twenties, I was never alone. I was always out.
I was always out. I knew what day of the week,
it was, by what club, what's happening? You know? That
was back here in l A. Yeah, I think I said, so, oh,
I'm sure not only did I see you? Was there
some piggy Stella? What about you? The one piece of
(40:14):
advice you'd share with your twenty year old self that
you don't need a boyfriend? Yes? Yes, okay and Stella?
Which romantic comedy could you watch on repeat? Okay? What
I do? I watched? What is it? It's a stupid
crazy lover crazy. I just put it on fall Asleep,
Love Goods, Annie, I can turn it on any classic.
(40:35):
Daniel's over there nodding. Okay, yes, alright, kids, Thank you
so much for joining us today, and all's fair. Tell
people where they can follow you and what's important to
you online and stay up to date with you. Liz,
you can follow me at the Liz carry Terry is
c A R E y guys, and also your website.
This is an opportunity to talk about I am a
(40:57):
voter dot com. Oh yes, remember bird to vote. I
am a voter dot com is someplace that I love
to promote and talk about. And right now, if you
don't get out and vote or prepare or register, don't
we don't complain and lights out with David Spade Air's
Weekly on Comedy Central. It's on at eleven thirty five,
(41:19):
So if you watch eleven thirty just relax, it's coming.
It's coming. I'm not always on, so sorry, if you're
watching and she's not on, you could just start it
off until the next time. At it still got still
got plenty of funny people on that and Stella. How
about you? What's your insta? My god, my last name
is too long to spell. You can go my website
(41:40):
Wicked TV with two k's w I k k e
d tv dot com. Otherwise we'll go to the porn site.
I think, oh yeah, that one hair going out. I
think you guys are they were awesome. I told you
that we could kind of they would start getting along
once we got into it. I hope. I mean they
(42:00):
ended up they left together. Yeah, okay, with that that
whole roundtable confers, I think there's gonna be some piggybacking.
Thanks for listening to the All's Fair podcast. Rate us
at Apple Podcast, and follow us at It's Over Easy
on social media. Let's speak again, same time next week. Bye,
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