August 4, 2020 • 26 mins
Laura and Johnnie are joined by world-class, Billboard magazine rated, jazz songstress Anna Danes who shares her own divorce story, and the inspiration behind her new song “Find Your Wings,” written by Cindy Alexander about slaying the dragon of self-doubt. We also provide an update on COVID-19 divorces around the world, and we answer the question, can music save the world?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi there. It's me Laura Wasser, the divorce attorney and
the founder of It's over Easy, the online divorce service.
I've been practicing family law for over twenty years, and
I've worked on thousands of divorces, shepherding people through what
may be one of the most terrifying times in their lives.
(00:20):
Along the way, I often have to remind people to
lower their expectations when dealing with matters of the heart.
Rules simply don't apply, because all's fair in love and war.
Open your heart, Fasten your seatbelts, and let's go. Hi everyone,
I'm Laura Wasser, and this is All's Fair. I'm Johnny Rains,
and we're happy you're joining us today. So this podcast
(00:43):
is our opportunity to explore relationships and to speak with
you about the profound relationships in your lives, from the
ones we love to the ones who got away. All's
fair in love and war. As you know, Johnny, and
as I explain in the show open. In addition to
running the online divorce service It's over Easy, I'm gonna
attorney and the managing partner at the law firm of Wasser,
Cooperman and Mandals and one of the things I enjoy
(01:05):
about the practice of family law is the opportunity to
learn so much about so many Always been a bit
of a dilettante, and because of the nature of the
attorney client relationship, we are given a window into the
psyche and the soul of our clients, which is way
more intimate and informative than you would immediately imagine. Truth
is often more fascinating than fiction, wouldn't you say? Yes?
Which brings us to the news stories you shared with
(01:27):
me this weekend. First, there's what's happening in China. As
of January one, perspective, divorces will be required to wait
for thirty days after filing for divorce to proceed with
the dissolution of their marriages. What do you think about that?
I think it's so interesting because remember when COVID started
and China had been ahead of us, and everybody was
reporting about the big spike in Chinese divorces, and everybody
(01:51):
that was interviewing me, and when I was speaking, we're saying,
do you think that the quarantine and safer at home
is going to make there be a spike in divorces
in the United States? And I have mixed feelings about that,
because I think in some instances people will probably get
stronger and work through things in their relationship. But I
did say China must have a totally different way of
being able to file for divorce because so many people
(02:13):
rushing in at the same time sounds a bit off.
So that is why I think that they're making this
waiting period of cooling off period like we have in California.
You can file in California, but you have to wait
six months to actually be a divorce. So I think
they're doing it to cut down on what the glut
must have been in China, but also because so many
of those people I've read went back and got married
(02:33):
after a couple of months. So crazy. Yes, it's so crazy.
Somebody wrote on a message board regarding the article, this
regulation actually adds obstacles to divorce. It enables the party
who does not want to divorce, usually men, to have
more time to harass the other party. It's not helpful
in protecting women's rights, this user wrote, So I wonder
about that side of it, because I I do think
(02:55):
that if you're in a relationship, particularly a marriage, and
you've come out of quarantine and as we've discussed before.
If there's a propensity of domestic violence, for example, you
should be able to get divorced. And apparently this thirty
day cooling period in China does not stop dissolution if
there is domestic violence. But I will say that one,
(03:16):
if there is domestic violence, you can file sooner. That's
was in the article. The other thing is this being
divorced or not is not a factor as to whether
you can get the ship beat out of you. I
mean again, one is more of an administerial issue. If
you can go in file for divorce whatever, you may
have to leave the home, move out, separate, that's a
(03:37):
different question than whether or not you can be divorced.
And I know that in different countries and different cultures
it's not as easy as it is here in America
to find some where else to be or to get safe.
I am just saying be able to rush in and
get divorced on day one, as opposed to a thirty
day waiting period for the administration or whatever magistrate is
getting it done. Those are two very different things. Got
(03:59):
it well. Moving on to another part of the world,
divorces are up in Saudi Arabia as women find out
husbands married others in secret. Interesting. So this is from
Gulf News and Samir Salama rights that a law offices
in Abu Dhabi recorded an increase in request for divorced
coola and annulment of marriage of about thirty percent during
(04:20):
the coronavirus crisis. Among them as a doctor who discovered
her husband was secretly married to another. I hate it
in that surprise right, Oh my goodness. Other places with
cooling off periods include England and Wales, where there is
a mandatory cooling off period of six weeks, and in
France it is fifteen days. Here in California six months,
and in New York. For an uncontested divorce, the marriage
(04:41):
must be over for at least six months and all
economic issues including debt, how the marital property will be divided,
and custody and support of the children have been settled.
I think it might be more than six weeks in
England and Wales, I think it might be six months
if it's a no fault divorce. That's why people try
to prove fault. I just an article this morning saying
that they wanted the UK wanted to do it more
(05:03):
like they do it in France because you don't have
to wait so long and you don't have to construct
issues to have it be fault. You can just actually
get divorced. But I could be wrong, Call in, right
in and let us know. Yeah, my information comes straight
from China, so you know how reliable they are out
no matter where you are, and whether you hired a
lawyer or you're keeping the power in your own hands
(05:25):
by using an online service like It's over easy to
navigate your divorce. The rarity is the sudden epiphany or
single turning point showing you with dramatic clarity that your
marriage is over. Although that does happen most relationships, however,
on a precipice for years before one party or the
other finally decides it's time to jump, and coming to
the decision is not easy. It takes courage. For many
(05:45):
of their next chapter. Life after divorce is more fulfilling
than they could have ever imagined, but getting there is scary.
Joining us Today is one such person. The end of
her marriage, she says, open the door for her to
become one of Billboard Magazine's top performing jazz recording artists
or critically acclaimed album Find Your Wings debut at number
one on the iTunes Jazz Charts, top twenty five and
(06:06):
all of Billboard Jazz, and top to thirteen in Billboard
Traditional Jazz. When you feel like you don't fit, you're
not understood one bit, find your wings. You can rise
(06:33):
above the fright. Sing what you can't seem to say.
Find your wings. When a balsing worlds colline, Imagine you're
the queen of times that moon back into place. If
(06:54):
only four you're wrong heart side. I am, first of
all a mom. I am a jazz singer, a music producer,
author and speaker. When I was about ten years old,
(07:16):
my family and I escaped Poland and we went to Sweden,
where we lived for about a year. Couldn't stay there,
ended up applying to the Canadian embassy in Stockholm, and
I grew up pretty much in Canada. After that, went
to school and law school, and when I met my
ex husband seventeen years ago, moved to California. Hots She's
(07:42):
a multitalented performer making waves in the jazz industry, and
she's here with us today. Welcome to All's fair. Anna
Danes Hi, nice to meet you. I'm Laura. Hi, Laura
so Anna, Welcome to All's Fair. So tell us, I mean,
I don't know that we've ever had anybody on the
show that was born on the fourth of July in
(08:02):
a communist country. So you're from poland tell us what's
going on. I know that you moved to Sweden first
and you basically lived in Canada for a big part
of your life. But your parents are Polish, so they
must have had great stories about what was going on
before they decided to leave. Yes, not unlike the stories
you're seeing on the streets this week. So it was
(08:24):
basically martial law before we left. And um, you know,
I'm Polish myself, so I remember a lot of that stuff.
I was ten years old when we left, and we
basically escaped all that, uh, took the ferry to Sweden
on a tourist visa and never came back. Wow, that
is like so brave, and do you I mean when
(08:46):
you either were ten? But then talking back about it,
what was the one thing that finally like broke the
straw that broke the camels back for your parents When
they decided to go, they basically had had enough of
being in this kind of stuck sit stuation where they
couldn't travel, they couldn't advance their lives and their careers.
Life was restricted. There was no food on the store shelves. Um,
(09:09):
I mean it was dismal. There was there's no hope. Basically,
oh my goodness. Okay, So then you were in Sweden,
then in Canada. When did you come to the United States.
I came to the United States when I was twenty
nine years old, so about twenty years ago, when I
met my now ex husband. Yes, so interesting because we
(09:30):
talked so often about next chapters, the bravery to kind
of make a break and move. Your parents did that
with poland you did that with your ex. I read
somewhere that you regularly sing the national anthem to crowds
of like forty thousand people. How is that for you
to be up there singing this song and having really
all about freedom, which is something that you really know
(09:51):
quite a bit about these days. Yes, yes, indeed, and
becoming an American citizen was extremely meaningful for me, more
so the when I became a Canadian citizen. This is
really the land of opportunity. I always look at it
like that as an immigrant, and singing the anthem um
oftentimes brings me to tears. It really does. When you
(10:14):
like look at the lyrics and what what it's the
meeting behind them, I can really relate. So it's a
very powerful song and it's a beautiful story too. What
got you into jazz? What got you into seeing this
style of music? Well, again, growing up behind the Iron Curtain,
we got a little glimpse of Hollywood via movies, and
(10:37):
so growing up I do remember that wonderful world of
l A and Hollywood and those types of movies, the musicals,
the sinatras that Marilyn Monrose. That became part of my consciousness,
I suppose, And when I ended up in southern California,
it was almost surreal that I was, you know, just
(10:59):
minutes away from that world. But jazz spoke to me
from a young age too, because it was the music
um of that era, of the Sinatra era. And when
I was in my twenties, I had a retail shop
job and the owner of the shop kept playing jazz
all over all day long, the same five albums, I
might add, and at first I was like, oh, man,
(11:23):
I don't know if I can stand this, And then
it got under my skin and I had to go
home and order the same albums, so I love it.
So when did you discover When did you discover you
had an amazing singing voice. I didn't know I could
sing till about eight years ago. I mean, I hummed
here and there, but I I really didn't know. It
(11:44):
was that pivotal moment in my life where my daughter
wanted to take music lessons, but she refused to sing
at her third one, and I stood up because I
didn't want to waste the sixty bucks. You don't want
to waste the money. I didn't want to waste the money.
I'm a pret to go such a mom. I'm the
same way. I eat it, just eat it, do it.
(12:06):
But she wouldn't and I couldn't make her. So I said, okay,
I'll try it, and the teacher asked me, what would
you like to sing? The only song I could remember
was Summertime, and it all came out of me because
at the time, everything back at home was breaking down,
you know, he was running around, cheating and and all
of a sudden, I'm singing a beautiful song and it
(12:28):
feels so good and I felt at home and I
felt safe. That's amazing. So okay, you meet him you
come to California. Yeah, when did you get cancer? During marriage?
Post marriage? Post marriage? Both times? Oh my god, you've
been through a lot. Okay, so you've had cancer twice. Yeah,
the same cancer, same breast. Yeah. Are you in remission currently? Yes? Okay? Good?
(12:55):
And how old is your daughter now? She's okay? Tell
us a little bit about the decision to leave your husband,
because I think a lot of listeners like hearing about
the journey that people we interview have gone through the
decision to leave my husband. Um, wow, well when you
(13:17):
said he was cheating, so that doesn't help. Yeah. It
was a lot more than that, as it oftentimes is.
You know, it was layers of stuff that happened between
us over I guess thirteen years. Um. At first, I
let a lot of things go because as women were
peacekeepers and we want to have peace in the family
(13:37):
and everything's okay. I can deal with it until you
can't deal with it. And what it was for me
is he was very domineering, um and emotionally and verbally abusive,
and I could only take it for so long. And
unfortunately it got worse before it got better, because uh,
he got more and more successful in his business, and
(14:00):
that kind of built up his arrogance further towards me,
Whereas I was the one who stayed home and took
care of the home front, to care of everything so
that when he came home, the house was clean, dinner
was cooked, daughter was fed. It was that kind of
a scenario. Um. But I also took care about a
(14:21):
lot of other things, like the back kind of our business,
and helped him in any shape, anyway in shape I could,
but it wasn't somehow enough. The more I did, the
more he became mean to me and called me useless
and meaningless and told me how he could hire people
to be my daughter's mom, people from Tijuana, Like, why
(14:45):
do I even need you would went to that level?
What nationality is your ax? Mexican? Mexican? Okay, well, at
least maybe he knew some people in Tijuana that could help.
I had to say, you know, well he had cousins
there you go. No, there's only one, you though, anna
only one you Yeah. So, um, while this is happening
(15:08):
and we're building this beautiful dream house, he becomes a
meaner to me. He has a mistress his assistant, and
I'm sitting back and going Wow. And meanwhile, I'm taking
these music lessons and feeling better about myself every day.
That's great. So the expression was what liberated me. And
one day my mentor music mentor asked me, well, what
(15:31):
would you like to do with all this singing? I said,
I don't know, but it feels really good. Why don't
you record an album? He said to me. I'm like, what, like,
real music stars record albums, not normal people. But that
is what really built up my confidence that first album.
And when the album was recorded and I had a
(15:52):
little black box with all the songs, I was standing
tall and proud. I had a battalion of lawyers. You
need that. And so what was the first album? It's
called Longing, So I picked the title for a reason
and I was longing for love amazing? And how old
(16:14):
were you when that came out? Okay? And how many
albums since that too? I'm working on a third one
right now, and I have some singles also, very very exciting.
Tell us how the relationship with is your with your
ex is now? And I know you're still co parenting
(16:34):
co parenting. Our co parenting is basically down to text
messages around our daughter. I don't speak to him because
I choose not to. Um, I think it's beneath me.
He's not a very kind person. So I was able
to reign in their relationship and put it on my terms.
It's basically for the benefit of our daughter. And how
(16:57):
And does she live mostly with you? Or is it okay?
So she lives with you? And I know she wasn't
interested in the singing lessons when she was seven. But
how is music integrated into your relationship with her now?
If at all? Oh, it is very much. So She's
always been musical, but she doesn't want to be in
the spotlight. I'm like, mom, Yeah, but she's been listening
(17:18):
to all kinds of music growing ups. And I didn't
think she was absorbing any of the stuff I was singing.
But I nowadays walk into her bedroom at night and
there's jazz playing. Interesting, he's watching Lulla Land over and
over again. I love it. So. And are you in
a relationship now if you don't mind me asking, I am.
(17:41):
And is it with somebody who is musically inclined or
does he just love listening to you? He is not
musically inclined. He's actually a former CNN journalist. He has
a nice, big perspective on the world. Uh. And it's
lovely to be with someone so open minded and support
portive and worldly and traveled. Uh. And he um loves
(18:04):
me unconditionally, which is also so so new to me fantastic.
So see, guys, you gotta sometimes take a scary leap
to get out there, whether it's leaving the country that
you're living in or leaving the marriage that you're living in.
You're listening to All's Fair with Laura Wasser. I'm Laura,
and Johnny's here with me today and we're with Anna Danes.
(18:27):
We're speaking about next chapters, turning bad luck into good
and making music with our very multitalented jazz recording artist guests. Anna,
with all that's gone on in the world this summer,
do you think music can save us? Oh my gosh, yes, absolutely.
Music is essential right now because, first of all, it's
(18:50):
a universal language. You don't even need to understand the
lyrics of a song to understand the emotions behind it. Uh.
Second of all, its inspirational and motivational and can give
you ideas and feelings that you may have forgotten about.
(19:10):
It can remind you that life is beautiful, that there
is hope behind the gloom and um it also can
be the break we need sometimes just to take our
minds off what is going on around us. Just like
a good movie can a good song will do that
as well. Have you been listening to any of these
(19:31):
kind of online concerts or things that folks are doing
because we can't gather right now during these COVID days.
My hope is that by the time this airs will
be getting out a little bit more. But I still
see concerts, jazz clubs, maybe not not quite so uh
so immediate in our future. Have you been participating in
any of the kind of online music offerings that have
(19:53):
been going on. I've been participating. I've been listening and watching.
I've not had a concert myself, but maybe down the road,
I kind of wanted to go silent for a while
and and take everything in and maybe taking the information
and will allow me to write some new songs. Because
(20:13):
it's been tough watching everything. It's been really tough. You
almost do feel silenced. We listen to a clip FUM
find your Wings. Can you tell us a little bit
about it? Please tell us about the inspiration for it
and how you feel now that it's out there in
the world being listened to by so many people. Yes,
Find Your Wings was written by Cindy Alexander and myself,
(20:33):
and it's a wonderful song about believing in yourself and
something that I wrote with my daughter in mine seeing
her walk down the aisle or just before telling her
believe in yourself, no matter what you know. Slay the
dragon of self doubt and find your wings, Slay the
dragon of self doubt. I love that, Okay, so Anna.
(20:55):
We have something that we do in law. They're called interrogatories.
It's the way that people will answer questions pre trial.
Will you play with us? Absolutely? Do you swear to
tell truth? Do you swear to tell the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Okay Anna? Which
relationship in your life has had the most profound impact? Wow? Well,
(21:19):
my daughter's changed me tremendously, tremendously. She's uh, She's my reason.
Second relationship would be with my best friend who is
turning seventy eight this week. She's full of wisdom and
love and goodness and unconditional support. Happy birthday to her, Yes, exactly,
(21:41):
Happy birthday, Karen Um. And the third one would be
the current romantic relationship. I am in because I never
thought that existed. What's his name? Let's give him a
shout out. Just hi, Brad Karen my Gemini sister, Happy birthday.
All right, So this is a good one for a musician.
What is your favorite love song? I love the love
(22:05):
songs that are kind of stappy and sad, where you
get to squeeze out all the emotions in those lyrics.
And I love performing them too, because you can really
get in there. So I love songs like in the
wee small hours of the morning, someone to watch over me,
start us. They're basically poetry. Give us a few lines
(22:26):
maybe from seven wee small hours of the morning, while
the whole wide world is fast asleep. You lie away
and think about that boy and never ever think of counting.
(22:50):
She I love it. Oh my god, that was great.
Did you see the movie Judy where Rene's lager played
to Garland? Oh? How amazing was that? Amazing talent? Both
of them amazing talents. Yes, Okay, what's the one piece
of advice you'd share with your twenty something year old self? Anna?
(23:12):
Oh my gosh, um, Well, I was very quiet and
timid when I was twenty, so I would tell my
twenty or something like, you do have the right to
your opinions. You do have the right to voice them.
Don't let anyone put out the fire inside you, and
don't be so gloam and serious. Life is for living.
(23:35):
I wore a lot of black and smoked a lot
of cigarettes. Came out of a communist country. You needed
a little bit of time to find your wings. Exactly,
I still wear a black Nothing wrong with Bakay? Which
romantic exactly? Yes? Which romantic comedy could you watch on repeat? Anna?
(23:57):
When Harry met Sally sleepless and Seattle something about Mary?
And yes, we don't get something about Mary very often,
but that is a very good one. I love that movie.
I love that movie. Have you watched it with your
daughter yet? Okay? It holds up. I just watched with
my sons. They were a little confused at certain parts,
(24:18):
but for the most part, it definitely holds up. Yes,
like her hair, her hair holds up. Oh my god,
that was the part where they were like, what's happening here? Anna?
Thank you so much for sharing your sweet voice with
us today and your wonderful outlook on next chapters and
(24:38):
your life. Please tell people where they can download your
music and where they can find you online. They can
download my music on iTunes. They can also hear it
on Spotify, Pandora, and Anna Danes dot com two ends
A N N A Danes d A n E s
and Anna Dane's music is your Instagram. Yes, yes, you
(24:59):
are wonderful. Thank you so much, Be safe and we
will be listening than She's awesome. I love that. I
love that story. You guys. If anybody who's feeling isolated
or down or like this is never gonna end, listen
to that. I mean, she really really overcame probably more
(25:21):
serious ship than any of us have had to. And
look how happy she is. And listen to her beautiful voice.
So take that as something and put that in your
pipe and smoke it. Johnny Well, I don't know what
else to say, but you know where past the lighter
no one jumps into divorce. But clinging to an old
idea of how relationships are unraveled can make bad things
(25:44):
even worse. And to echo what we spoke about at
the top of the show, generally there's no lightning bolts
or magical signs that tell you when it's time to
get divorced. When the bad starts out weighing the good
on a consistent basis, you may feel that taking the
next step is appropriate. It's a very personal decision and
most likely should be arrived upon with the help of
some kind of counseling or support. That's our show for today,
(26:05):
but if you've subscribed, scroll on through our feed to
see what else we're talking about. And if you haven't,
please do click to rate us at Apple Podcast and
write us a quick review so we know what you
want to hear next. Follow us on Instagram and it's
over easy, and join our conversation on Facebook at it's
over easy community. Thanks for listening.
Hi there. It's me Laura Wasser, the divorce attorney and
the founder of It's over Easy, the online divorce service.
I've been practicing family law for over twenty years, and
I've worked on thousands of divorces, shepherding people through what
may be one of the most terrifying times in their lives.
(00:20):
Along the way, I often have to remind people to
lower their expectations when dealing with matters of the heart.
Rules simply don't apply, because all's fair in love and war.
Open your heart, Fasten your seatbelts, and let's go. Hi everyone,
I'm Laura Wasser, and this is All's Fair. I'm Johnny Rains,
and we're happy you're joining us today. So this podcast
(00:43):
is our opportunity to explore relationships and to speak with
you about the profound relationships in your lives, from the
ones we love to the ones who got away. All's
fair in love and war. As you know, Johnny, and
as I explain in the show open. In addition to
running the online divorce service It's over Easy, I'm gonna
attorney and the managing partner at the law firm of Wasser,
Cooperman and Mandals and one of the things I enjoy
(01:05):
about the practice of family law is the opportunity to
learn so much about so many Always been a bit
of a dilettante, and because of the nature of the
attorney client relationship, we are given a window into the
psyche and the soul of our clients, which is way
more intimate and informative than you would immediately imagine. Truth
is often more fascinating than fiction, wouldn't you say? Yes?
Which brings us to the news stories you shared with
(01:27):
me this weekend. First, there's what's happening in China. As
of January one, perspective, divorces will be required to wait
for thirty days after filing for divorce to proceed with
the dissolution of their marriages. What do you think about that?
I think it's so interesting because remember when COVID started
and China had been ahead of us, and everybody was
reporting about the big spike in Chinese divorces, and everybody
(01:51):
that was interviewing me, and when I was speaking, we're saying,
do you think that the quarantine and safer at home
is going to make there be a spike in divorces
in the United States? And I have mixed feelings about that,
because I think in some instances people will probably get
stronger and work through things in their relationship. But I
did say China must have a totally different way of
being able to file for divorce because so many people
(02:13):
rushing in at the same time sounds a bit off.
So that is why I think that they're making this
waiting period of cooling off period like we have in California.
You can file in California, but you have to wait
six months to actually be a divorce. So I think
they're doing it to cut down on what the glut
must have been in China, but also because so many
of those people I've read went back and got married
(02:33):
after a couple of months. So crazy. Yes, it's so crazy.
Somebody wrote on a message board regarding the article, this
regulation actually adds obstacles to divorce. It enables the party
who does not want to divorce, usually men, to have
more time to harass the other party. It's not helpful
in protecting women's rights, this user wrote, So I wonder
about that side of it, because I I do think
(02:55):
that if you're in a relationship, particularly a marriage, and
you've come out of quarantine and as we've discussed before.
If there's a propensity of domestic violence, for example, you
should be able to get divorced. And apparently this thirty
day cooling period in China does not stop dissolution if
there is domestic violence. But I will say that one,
(03:16):
if there is domestic violence, you can file sooner. That's
was in the article. The other thing is this being
divorced or not is not a factor as to whether
you can get the ship beat out of you. I
mean again, one is more of an administerial issue. If
you can go in file for divorce whatever, you may
have to leave the home, move out, separate, that's a
(03:37):
different question than whether or not you can be divorced.
And I know that in different countries and different cultures
it's not as easy as it is here in America
to find some where else to be or to get safe.
I am just saying be able to rush in and
get divorced on day one, as opposed to a thirty
day waiting period for the administration or whatever magistrate is
getting it done. Those are two very different things. Got
(03:59):
it well. Moving on to another part of the world,
divorces are up in Saudi Arabia as women find out
husbands married others in secret. Interesting. So this is from
Gulf News and Samir Salama rights that a law offices
in Abu Dhabi recorded an increase in request for divorced
coola and annulment of marriage of about thirty percent during
(04:20):
the coronavirus crisis. Among them as a doctor who discovered
her husband was secretly married to another. I hate it
in that surprise right, Oh my goodness. Other places with
cooling off periods include England and Wales, where there is
a mandatory cooling off period of six weeks, and in
France it is fifteen days. Here in California six months,
and in New York. For an uncontested divorce, the marriage
(04:41):
must be over for at least six months and all
economic issues including debt, how the marital property will be divided,
and custody and support of the children have been settled.
I think it might be more than six weeks in
England and Wales, I think it might be six months
if it's a no fault divorce. That's why people try
to prove fault. I just an article this morning saying
that they wanted the UK wanted to do it more
(05:03):
like they do it in France because you don't have
to wait so long and you don't have to construct
issues to have it be fault. You can just actually
get divorced. But I could be wrong, Call in, right
in and let us know. Yeah, my information comes straight
from China, so you know how reliable they are out
no matter where you are, and whether you hired a
lawyer or you're keeping the power in your own hands
(05:25):
by using an online service like It's over easy to
navigate your divorce. The rarity is the sudden epiphany or
single turning point showing you with dramatic clarity that your
marriage is over. Although that does happen most relationships, however,
on a precipice for years before one party or the
other finally decides it's time to jump, and coming to
the decision is not easy. It takes courage. For many
(05:45):
of their next chapter. Life after divorce is more fulfilling
than they could have ever imagined, but getting there is scary.
Joining us Today is one such person. The end of
her marriage, she says, open the door for her to
become one of Billboard Magazine's top performing jazz recording artists
or critically acclaimed album Find Your Wings debut at number
one on the iTunes Jazz Charts, top twenty five and
(06:06):
all of Billboard Jazz, and top to thirteen in Billboard
Traditional Jazz. When you feel like you don't fit, you're
not understood one bit, find your wings. You can rise
(06:33):
above the fright. Sing what you can't seem to say.
Find your wings. When a balsing worlds colline, Imagine you're
the queen of times that moon back into place. If
(06:54):
only four you're wrong heart side. I am, first of
all a mom. I am a jazz singer, a music producer,
author and speaker. When I was about ten years old,
(07:16):
my family and I escaped Poland and we went to Sweden,
where we lived for about a year. Couldn't stay there,
ended up applying to the Canadian embassy in Stockholm, and
I grew up pretty much in Canada. After that, went
to school and law school, and when I met my
ex husband seventeen years ago, moved to California. Hots She's
(07:42):
a multitalented performer making waves in the jazz industry, and
she's here with us today. Welcome to All's fair. Anna
Danes Hi, nice to meet you. I'm Laura. Hi, Laura
so Anna, Welcome to All's Fair. So tell us, I mean,
I don't know that we've ever had anybody on the
show that was born on the fourth of July in
(08:02):
a communist country. So you're from poland tell us what's
going on. I know that you moved to Sweden first
and you basically lived in Canada for a big part
of your life. But your parents are Polish, so they
must have had great stories about what was going on
before they decided to leave. Yes, not unlike the stories
you're seeing on the streets this week. So it was
(08:24):
basically martial law before we left. And um, you know,
I'm Polish myself, so I remember a lot of that stuff.
I was ten years old when we left, and we
basically escaped all that, uh, took the ferry to Sweden
on a tourist visa and never came back. Wow, that
is like so brave, and do you I mean when
(08:46):
you either were ten? But then talking back about it,
what was the one thing that finally like broke the
straw that broke the camels back for your parents When
they decided to go, they basically had had enough of
being in this kind of stuck sit stuation where they
couldn't travel, they couldn't advance their lives and their careers.
Life was restricted. There was no food on the store shelves. Um,
(09:09):
I mean it was dismal. There was there's no hope. Basically,
oh my goodness. Okay, So then you were in Sweden,
then in Canada. When did you come to the United States.
I came to the United States when I was twenty
nine years old, so about twenty years ago, when I
met my now ex husband. Yes, so interesting because we
(09:30):
talked so often about next chapters, the bravery to kind
of make a break and move. Your parents did that
with poland you did that with your ex. I read
somewhere that you regularly sing the national anthem to crowds
of like forty thousand people. How is that for you
to be up there singing this song and having really
all about freedom, which is something that you really know
(09:51):
quite a bit about these days. Yes, yes, indeed, and
becoming an American citizen was extremely meaningful for me, more
so the when I became a Canadian citizen. This is
really the land of opportunity. I always look at it
like that as an immigrant, and singing the anthem um
oftentimes brings me to tears. It really does. When you
(10:14):
like look at the lyrics and what what it's the
meeting behind them, I can really relate. So it's a
very powerful song and it's a beautiful story too. What
got you into jazz? What got you into seeing this
style of music? Well, again, growing up behind the Iron Curtain,
we got a little glimpse of Hollywood via movies, and
(10:37):
so growing up I do remember that wonderful world of
l A and Hollywood and those types of movies, the musicals,
the sinatras that Marilyn Monrose. That became part of my consciousness,
I suppose, And when I ended up in southern California,
it was almost surreal that I was, you know, just
(10:59):
minutes away from that world. But jazz spoke to me
from a young age too, because it was the music
um of that era, of the Sinatra era. And when
I was in my twenties, I had a retail shop
job and the owner of the shop kept playing jazz
all over all day long, the same five albums, I
might add, and at first I was like, oh, man,
(11:23):
I don't know if I can stand this, And then
it got under my skin and I had to go
home and order the same albums, so I love it.
So when did you discover When did you discover you
had an amazing singing voice. I didn't know I could
sing till about eight years ago. I mean, I hummed
here and there, but I I really didn't know. It
(11:44):
was that pivotal moment in my life where my daughter
wanted to take music lessons, but she refused to sing
at her third one, and I stood up because I
didn't want to waste the sixty bucks. You don't want
to waste the money. I didn't want to waste the money.
I'm a pret to go such a mom. I'm the
same way. I eat it, just eat it, do it.
(12:06):
But she wouldn't and I couldn't make her. So I said, okay,
I'll try it, and the teacher asked me, what would
you like to sing? The only song I could remember
was Summertime, and it all came out of me because
at the time, everything back at home was breaking down,
you know, he was running around, cheating and and all
of a sudden, I'm singing a beautiful song and it
(12:28):
feels so good and I felt at home and I
felt safe. That's amazing. So okay, you meet him you
come to California. Yeah, when did you get cancer? During marriage?
Post marriage? Post marriage? Both times? Oh my god, you've
been through a lot. Okay, so you've had cancer twice. Yeah,
the same cancer, same breast. Yeah. Are you in remission currently? Yes? Okay? Good?
(12:55):
And how old is your daughter now? She's okay? Tell
us a little bit about the decision to leave your husband,
because I think a lot of listeners like hearing about
the journey that people we interview have gone through the
decision to leave my husband. Um, wow, well when you
(13:17):
said he was cheating, so that doesn't help. Yeah. It
was a lot more than that, as it oftentimes is.
You know, it was layers of stuff that happened between
us over I guess thirteen years. Um. At first, I
let a lot of things go because as women were
peacekeepers and we want to have peace in the family
(13:37):
and everything's okay. I can deal with it until you
can't deal with it. And what it was for me
is he was very domineering, um and emotionally and verbally abusive,
and I could only take it for so long. And
unfortunately it got worse before it got better, because uh,
he got more and more successful in his business, and
(14:00):
that kind of built up his arrogance further towards me,
Whereas I was the one who stayed home and took
care of the home front, to care of everything so
that when he came home, the house was clean, dinner
was cooked, daughter was fed. It was that kind of
a scenario. Um. But I also took care about a
(14:21):
lot of other things, like the back kind of our business,
and helped him in any shape, anyway in shape I could,
but it wasn't somehow enough. The more I did, the
more he became mean to me and called me useless
and meaningless and told me how he could hire people
to be my daughter's mom, people from Tijuana, Like, why
(14:45):
do I even need you would went to that level?
What nationality is your ax? Mexican? Mexican? Okay, well, at
least maybe he knew some people in Tijuana that could help.
I had to say, you know, well he had cousins
there you go. No, there's only one, you though, anna
only one you Yeah. So, um, while this is happening
(15:08):
and we're building this beautiful dream house, he becomes a
meaner to me. He has a mistress his assistant, and
I'm sitting back and going Wow. And meanwhile, I'm taking
these music lessons and feeling better about myself every day.
That's great. So the expression was what liberated me. And
one day my mentor music mentor asked me, well, what
(15:31):
would you like to do with all this singing? I said,
I don't know, but it feels really good. Why don't
you record an album? He said to me. I'm like, what, like,
real music stars record albums, not normal people. But that
is what really built up my confidence that first album.
And when the album was recorded and I had a
(15:52):
little black box with all the songs, I was standing
tall and proud. I had a battalion of lawyers. You
need that. And so what was the first album? It's
called Longing, So I picked the title for a reason
and I was longing for love amazing? And how old
(16:14):
were you when that came out? Okay? And how many
albums since that too? I'm working on a third one
right now, and I have some singles also, very very exciting.
Tell us how the relationship with is your with your
ex is now? And I know you're still co parenting
(16:34):
co parenting. Our co parenting is basically down to text
messages around our daughter. I don't speak to him because
I choose not to. Um, I think it's beneath me.
He's not a very kind person. So I was able
to reign in their relationship and put it on my terms.
It's basically for the benefit of our daughter. And how
(16:57):
And does she live mostly with you? Or is it okay?
So she lives with you? And I know she wasn't
interested in the singing lessons when she was seven. But
how is music integrated into your relationship with her now?
If at all? Oh, it is very much. So She's
always been musical, but she doesn't want to be in
the spotlight. I'm like, mom, Yeah, but she's been listening
(17:18):
to all kinds of music growing ups. And I didn't
think she was absorbing any of the stuff I was singing.
But I nowadays walk into her bedroom at night and
there's jazz playing. Interesting, he's watching Lulla Land over and
over again. I love it. So. And are you in
a relationship now if you don't mind me asking, I am.
(17:41):
And is it with somebody who is musically inclined or
does he just love listening to you? He is not
musically inclined. He's actually a former CNN journalist. He has
a nice, big perspective on the world. Uh. And it's
lovely to be with someone so open minded and support
portive and worldly and traveled. Uh. And he um loves
(18:04):
me unconditionally, which is also so so new to me fantastic.
So see, guys, you gotta sometimes take a scary leap
to get out there, whether it's leaving the country that
you're living in or leaving the marriage that you're living in.
You're listening to All's Fair with Laura Wasser. I'm Laura,
and Johnny's here with me today and we're with Anna Danes.
(18:27):
We're speaking about next chapters, turning bad luck into good
and making music with our very multitalented jazz recording artist guests. Anna,
with all that's gone on in the world this summer,
do you think music can save us? Oh my gosh, yes, absolutely.
Music is essential right now because, first of all, it's
(18:50):
a universal language. You don't even need to understand the
lyrics of a song to understand the emotions behind it. Uh.
Second of all, its inspirational and motivational and can give
you ideas and feelings that you may have forgotten about.
(19:10):
It can remind you that life is beautiful, that there
is hope behind the gloom and um it also can
be the break we need sometimes just to take our
minds off what is going on around us. Just like
a good movie can a good song will do that
as well. Have you been listening to any of these
(19:31):
kind of online concerts or things that folks are doing
because we can't gather right now during these COVID days.
My hope is that by the time this airs will
be getting out a little bit more. But I still
see concerts, jazz clubs, maybe not not quite so uh
so immediate in our future. Have you been participating in
any of the kind of online music offerings that have
(19:53):
been going on. I've been participating. I've been listening and watching.
I've not had a concert myself, but maybe down the road,
I kind of wanted to go silent for a while
and and take everything in and maybe taking the information
and will allow me to write some new songs. Because
(20:13):
it's been tough watching everything. It's been really tough. You
almost do feel silenced. We listen to a clip FUM
find your Wings. Can you tell us a little bit
about it? Please tell us about the inspiration for it
and how you feel now that it's out there in
the world being listened to by so many people. Yes,
Find Your Wings was written by Cindy Alexander and myself,
(20:33):
and it's a wonderful song about believing in yourself and
something that I wrote with my daughter in mine seeing
her walk down the aisle or just before telling her
believe in yourself, no matter what you know. Slay the
dragon of self doubt and find your wings, Slay the
dragon of self doubt. I love that, Okay, so Anna.
(20:55):
We have something that we do in law. They're called interrogatories.
It's the way that people will answer questions pre trial.
Will you play with us? Absolutely? Do you swear to
tell truth? Do you swear to tell the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Okay Anna? Which
relationship in your life has had the most profound impact? Wow? Well,
(21:19):
my daughter's changed me tremendously, tremendously. She's uh, She's my reason.
Second relationship would be with my best friend who is
turning seventy eight this week. She's full of wisdom and
love and goodness and unconditional support. Happy birthday to her, Yes, exactly,
(21:41):
Happy birthday, Karen Um. And the third one would be
the current romantic relationship. I am in because I never
thought that existed. What's his name? Let's give him a
shout out. Just hi, Brad Karen my Gemini sister, Happy birthday.
All right, So this is a good one for a musician.
What is your favorite love song? I love the love
(22:05):
songs that are kind of stappy and sad, where you
get to squeeze out all the emotions in those lyrics.
And I love performing them too, because you can really
get in there. So I love songs like in the
wee small hours of the morning, someone to watch over me,
start us. They're basically poetry. Give us a few lines
(22:26):
maybe from seven wee small hours of the morning, while
the whole wide world is fast asleep. You lie away
and think about that boy and never ever think of counting.
(22:50):
She I love it. Oh my god, that was great.
Did you see the movie Judy where Rene's lager played
to Garland? Oh? How amazing was that? Amazing talent? Both
of them amazing talents. Yes, Okay, what's the one piece
of advice you'd share with your twenty something year old self? Anna?
(23:12):
Oh my gosh, um, Well, I was very quiet and
timid when I was twenty, so I would tell my
twenty or something like, you do have the right to
your opinions. You do have the right to voice them.
Don't let anyone put out the fire inside you, and
don't be so gloam and serious. Life is for living.
(23:35):
I wore a lot of black and smoked a lot
of cigarettes. Came out of a communist country. You needed
a little bit of time to find your wings. Exactly,
I still wear a black Nothing wrong with Bakay? Which
romantic exactly? Yes? Which romantic comedy could you watch on repeat? Anna?
(23:57):
When Harry met Sally sleepless and Seattle something about Mary?
And yes, we don't get something about Mary very often,
but that is a very good one. I love that movie.
I love that movie. Have you watched it with your
daughter yet? Okay? It holds up. I just watched with
my sons. They were a little confused at certain parts,
(24:18):
but for the most part, it definitely holds up. Yes,
like her hair, her hair holds up. Oh my god,
that was the part where they were like, what's happening here? Anna?
Thank you so much for sharing your sweet voice with
us today and your wonderful outlook on next chapters and
(24:38):
your life. Please tell people where they can download your
music and where they can find you online. They can
download my music on iTunes. They can also hear it
on Spotify, Pandora, and Anna Danes dot com two ends
A N N A Danes d A n E s
and Anna Dane's music is your Instagram. Yes, yes, you
(24:59):
are wonderful. Thank you so much, Be safe and we
will be listening than She's awesome. I love that. I
love that story. You guys. If anybody who's feeling isolated
or down or like this is never gonna end, listen
to that. I mean, she really really overcame probably more
(25:21):
serious ship than any of us have had to. And
look how happy she is. And listen to her beautiful voice.
So take that as something and put that in your
pipe and smoke it. Johnny Well, I don't know what
else to say, but you know where past the lighter
no one jumps into divorce. But clinging to an old
idea of how relationships are unraveled can make bad things
(25:44):
even worse. And to echo what we spoke about at
the top of the show, generally there's no lightning bolts
or magical signs that tell you when it's time to
get divorced. When the bad starts out weighing the good
on a consistent basis, you may feel that taking the
next step is appropriate. It's a very personal decision and
most likely should be arrived upon with the help of
some kind of counseling or support. That's our show for today,
(26:05):
but if you've subscribed, scroll on through our feed to
see what else we're talking about. And if you haven't,
please do click to rate us at Apple Podcast and
write us a quick review so we know what you
want to hear next. Follow us on Instagram and it's
over easy, and join our conversation on Facebook at it's
over easy community. Thanks for listening.
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