September 8, 2020 • 48 mins
Today Laura introduces us to two of her favorite authors, Ariel Meadow Stallings who published the new, anti-self-help book "From Sh!tshow to Afterglow: Putting Life Back Together When It All Falls Apart," and divorced dad advocate Steve Adams, author of "Now What: A Divorce Dad’s Guide to Parenting Excellence."
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi there. It's me Laura Wasser, the divorce attorney and
the founder of It's over Easy, the online divorce service.
I've been practicing family law for over twenty years and
I've worked on thousands of divorces, shepherding people through what
may be one of the most terrifying times in their lives.
(00:22):
Along the way, I often have to remind people to
lower their expectations when dealing with matters of the heart.
Rules simply don't apply. Because all's fair in love and war.
So welcome to the All's Fair Podcasts. Fasten your seatbelts
and let's go. Hello all, It's me Laura Wasser and
(00:43):
yours truly Johnny Rains. As you know from listening to
our show on our social channels at It's over Easy,
relationships are evolving in the twenty first century, and one
of our goals is to change the way people look
at their relationships, including the ones that culminate in divorce.
From matters of the heart, to friend ships like mine
and Laura's, to our relationship with politics, finances, and even
(01:04):
with authority. They're all up for discussion in our private
Facebook group It's over Easy Community, and right here on
all's fair, and they also make for good reading. And
I love to read, and apparently so to millennials Laura.
In a recent study on statista dot com that looks
at coronavirus and reading habits, millennials are the most likely
(01:24):
group of adults to read while self isolating, with saying
they were more inclined to do so seven percent higher
than all adults in total. That's actually surprising to me,
but happily so. Actually, yeah, it's quite surprising, especially when
you think about the literacy rates in the United States.
I know, so you sent me this article from Library Journal,
(01:46):
How serious is America's literacy problem? By Amy Ray? And
I was, um, I was really surprised. Yeah, it's it's
sublight almost on our society here in the United States. Um.
This is part one of an ongoing series that the
Library Journal is doing defining the broad scope and depth
(02:07):
of the literacy crisis in the United States among both
children and adults. And look at that map. I mean
some of the states that have the orange that's illiteracy,
including our state. That's incredible. No wonder where in the
ship hole right now? Well, you know. The article goes
on to point out that Florida, New York, and California
have the lowest literacy rates in the country. Um, and
(02:30):
you're absolutely right. The literacy is absolutely tied with people's
health and people's longevity and to poverty. According to the
National Center for Educational Statistics, of adults in the United
States fall into the illiterate category. That's about forty three
million and nearly two thirds of fourth graders read below
(02:51):
grade level, and the same number graduate from high school
still reading below grade level. This puts the United States
well behind several other countries in the world, and leading Japan,
all the Scandinavian countries, Canada, the Republic of Korea, and
the UK Way to go USA well next to speaking
with Johnny and all of you here on All's Fair,
(03:11):
reading books with my book club is one of my
top five most favorite activities. I'm actually I know I'm
such a nerd when I'm actually in two different book clubs,
and I'm a voracious reader, and I like being able
to read and share and discuss things, so many of
my favorite things to do. This year, I've had to
be adapted a bit because we've been doing my book
clubs virtually, and so consider this an invitation to our
(03:36):
new virtual book club at All's Fair and joining the
club today virtually via Zoom is our first guest, who
just published the definitive and irreverent Guide on How to
Recover from a Ship Show, which is what we really
need right now. It's the perfect anti self help book,
which Publishers Weekly calls delightfully unorthodox. She's also the author
of two other books, including Offbeat Bride, Create a Wedding
(03:57):
That's Authentically You, and she's the career or of the
wedding planning site of the same name that challenges you
to alter a L T A R You're thinking with
the web's original weird weddings blog. In addition to all that,
her work has been featured by dozens of outlets, including
The New York Times, Huff Post, and Refinery twenty nine. So,
without further ado, welcome to All's Fair Aerial Meadow Stallings.
(04:22):
Thank you so much for having me, Thank you for
being here from Seattle all the way. So Ariel your website,
find your afterglow dot com. You got your start in
the mid nineties editing a rave magazine. And you say
you're a middle you don't look middle aged to me.
I don't know, it's it's just because it's dark in
the in the colthics, middle aged, middle class white woman
(04:42):
and the mom of a son who's tent. Me too.
Actually I actually look middle aged class and I have
a ten year old. So how did your divorce teach
you everything you needed to know about surviving the ship?
Show that you know? Um, it comes down to a
few core things. Uh. First off, sometimes life blindsides you.
(05:05):
Things you did not expect land on your plate and
you have to change everything. And you did not agree
to this, you did not plan for this, and yet
somehow you can be okay. So wait, I have a Questionnail.
What's in a niagram? Aniagram? The demigram is a kind
of pop psychology typology system, so sort of like Myers
(05:29):
Briggs right, where there's like these different personality types. But
the aniagram, which rose to popularity in the seventies in
the U s UM, is based kind of around these
motivational arc types that it's less about the behaviors that
you exhibit and more about the motivations internally for those behaviors. Oh,
(05:49):
I like I was a rhetoric major, and so we
would take like a rhetoric of like avant garde poetry
or rhetoric of you know, debate, and so, rather than
thinking about what the words were, we were thinking about
the motivation that whatever the author, painter, poet was trying
to convey the same type of thing. Yeah, yeah, I know.
The angiogram is all about understanding that the core motivations
(06:09):
are how we ultimately frame our lives. It's all just
kind of how we compensate for our fears, and the
different motivations cause us to act in different ways. It's
been really helpful for me and kind of compassion building,
both self compassion and understanding other people. So what's in
any type three W four and my own trophy wife?
(06:33):
So and and angiogram three is a very achievement based person.
So I'm definitely a ladder climber and very focused on
accomplishment and uh success, which of course makes a divorce
for a wedding industry person all the more of a failure, right,
(06:53):
Like I'm like very ambitious. Well, yeah, you climb that
ladder and you won. Oh I climb that ladder and
then that latter fell out from underneath me. So that's
the that's the angiogram part and then the my own
trophy wife is you know, I'm a small business owner,
uh breadwinner. Um, I work really hard so that I
(07:16):
can take care of myself and live the life I
want to live. So uh, it's funny because when I
was first starting to date after my divorce, people were like,
I don't understand what's happening here, because I was like,
I'm a small business owner, Get out of my way.
But also, you know, I really just want to like
hang out and myself nice clothes, and so once I
(07:38):
was on my own, I had to kind of be
both halves of the marriage, both the breadwinner and the
trophy wife. So I like that thing. And it really
does give you an opportunity to represent yourself. Rather than
representing yourself, you're representing yourself to yourself and to whomever
you encounter, whether it's in business, social, etcetera. And I
(08:00):
think that's one of the coolest things about kind of
you know, not ending a relationship, but evolving out of
one kind of a relationship and into new relationships. So
the possibilities of new relationships. So, how did your divorce
teach you everything you needed to know about surviving the ship.
You know. Um, it comes down to a few core things. Uh.
(08:24):
First off, sometimes life blindsides you. Things you did not
expect land on your plate and you have to change
everything and you did not agree to this, you did
not plan for this, and yet somehow you can be okay,
So you know, sort of understanding that blind siding happens.
It helped me. It was a rough lesson five years ago,
(08:47):
but it's a lesson that when I got blindsided by
I was like, Okay, I can roll with this. I've
done this. I think the second big lesson is that
all your foundations can crumble simultaneously, right like you or
financial foundation, your identity foundation, your domestic foundation, right like,
all these things can It's always a cluster, right like,
(09:09):
it's always a cluster. And um, again, somehow you can
adapt and be resilient. And I learned that in the
context of my divorce when it felt like, you know,
how could could there be another context that that falls apart?
And yes there's more, and then this and then that
and then when hit and I was like, oh, now
it's a pandemic. Now it's a quarantine. Now it's a
(09:31):
long overdue racial justice awakening. Now it's you know what
heinous election year? Right, like all of these things, all
the foundations you know now the bottom fell out of
my finances, and yet I had learned through the context
of my divorce that everything can crumble beneath your feet
and somehow you can keep walking. Somehow. We're resilient creatures.
(09:54):
Do you believe if it doesn't kill you, it makes
you stronger? Boy? I hate to say yes, And I
don't think that you need to go through terrible suffering
to find your sense of resilience and adaptability. But certainly,
if you go through a period of personal or cultural
collective suffering, um, humans are very adaptable creatures, and and
(10:19):
you do learn a sense of strength that you did
not have before. For sure. So you call your daily
devotional practice lap dances for God and say that burlesque
lessons are the best therapy, Please explain absolutely so, um. I.
As part of getting over my the trauma of my divorce,
I did some burlesque classes here in Seattle at a
(10:41):
place called the Academy of Burlesque. And it was interesting
because a lot of the aspects of the lesson tied
into things I was working on in other parts of
my life. So um, the instructor kept reminding me to
stay focused on my breath, and I was like, wait
a minute, this sounds very familiar to like your breast,
my my bacus on the breath. Um, and that was
(11:07):
something I was working on in my sort of baby
meditation practice. So I was like, right. And then, um,
you know, for anyone who's read that book The Body
Keeps the Score by Bessel vander Kolke, which is all
about how trauma lives in the body, moving the body
is such a powerful way to get that trauma out
in ways that we can't through talk and analysis. And
(11:31):
I mean I love talking and I love analysis, but
there were certain aspects of that healing process that I
could not do with my brain that moving really helped with.
And um, of course it helps with rebuilding body autonomy
right like this my body, Um, I'm not sharing it
with a partner right now. Uh, rebuilding your self esteem.
(11:53):
And then um, you know neural plasticity, right, which as
we get older, this ability that our means have to
keep learning things. Uh. Certainly divorce is a terrible lesson,
but it was helpful for me in learning to dance
to remember that I can feel stupid, and I can
learn new skills and and even though I'm in my
(12:16):
mid forties, you know, you can teach an old dog
new tricks. And it's not a comfortable experience, but um,
your brain can grow and shift and that was a
really valuable part of that training. And it was also
just fun to stick my button the air. I mean
that that's a form of therapy too. And there you
have it. So okay. So in just just last month, um,
(12:36):
this summer, you published from ship Show to after Glow
Putting Life Back Together when it all falls apart? What
took five years after the divorce? I take it, yes,
you you wrote this book or you probably started writing
it about four years after divorce, probably actually really started
when it was collecting information. What made you decide to
(12:56):
share this experience right this book? I mean that's I
want to get to the heart of that in our
book clubs because I I think it's amazing that people
have these revelations and that they're willing to share because
I think they're so helpful. Yeah, you know, it was
it was two things, really, and the first one was that,
as a writer, writing this book was just about survival.
(13:17):
I mean, that's so much a part of recovering from
the grief of divorce, the grief of any big loss.
UM is just having a reason to wake up and
get out of bed in the morning. And for me, um,
writing was the thing that gave me purpose to some
(13:37):
very dark, empty days, especially with I was immediately doing
custody with my son, so he was gone half the time.
So I had gone from you know, wife and a
breadwinner and a mother full time to all of a sudden,
half of my life being this vacuum of empty time
and space. Especially as someone who's self employed, I didn't
have a boss. I was the boss, so I had
(14:00):
to have my own internal purpose to do something and
writing was what helped me get up in the morning.
And the other motivation was, you know, as someone who
spent almost fifteen years in the wedding industry, I wrote
a book about my wedding. I then you know, published
this website for almost fifteen years, supporting other people in
planning their weddings. I did have a measure of you know,
(14:23):
not culpability, but responsibility to my readership. You know, I
helped you all get into this and now as I'm
in the process of getting out of it. I know
so many of us go through this. I want to
be a support to the readers who have been with me.
You know. Again, not that it was my fault that
(14:43):
anybody got married and then got divorced, but but if
I supported you on getting into the marriage, then I
would also be accountable for supporting you in the process
of healing after the divorce. I love that. So there
was also a medical crisis too. There was a the
I was divorce medical. So what what was that? If
you don't find me as Yes, while I was working
(15:05):
a five person wedding expo in a silver sequin dress, um,
one of my ovaries exploded, which is a thing that
sounds really painful. Yeah, no, it was excruciating pain. And
UM I thought maybe it was just food poisoning or
something like the worst food poisoning I've ever had. So
(15:26):
I continued to work this wedding. You wouldn't want to
waste the dress dress, you know. I had the hair done,
I had a full face of makeup. I was like,
it's fine, just grit and make it through. And it
wasn't until a few days later that I ended up
in the hospital and then emergency surgery and um, it was.
It was gruesome. I was in the hospital for over
(15:48):
a week a month of relearning how to walk. It
was it was how does that does? Why does that happen?
How does that happen? You know it's um. I did
not know that I had endometriosis, but it can be
a symptom of endo is is kind of this chronic
ovarian thing that then if it gets too bad, it
just blows up. So there goes I mean, you know.
It was a great metaphor for just like there went
(16:11):
that life. Oh my goodness, all right, well again to
our listeners from ship Show to after Glow, putting life
back together when it all falls apart. And I really
do I love your way of thinking arial that you
were the captain of the ship in terms of so
many of these people getting married, wedding planning, all of that,
and then you didn't just leave them, so to speak,
(16:32):
but you were like, by the way, this happened to
me too, whether it's your personal experience or not, I
want to share it with you. I love that. Thank you. Yeah.
And it was really part of Offbeat Bride was supporting
people in planning a wedding, not that looked like my wedding,
because we're all different people, but supporting them in planning
a wedding that was an authentic expression of themselves. And
so part of from ship Show to after Glow is
(16:53):
saying your recovery and healing process may not look anything
like mine, but I will model what it looks like
to find authentic healing mind, body, spirit, you know, kind
of the usual stuff, and support. In the same way
I supported and cheer led people through planning their authentic weddings,
I can support and cheerlead people through having an authentic,
(17:14):
embodied recovery process recovering from whether it's a divorce or
the ship show of I mean, we're all in it now.
I think sometimes I have found, specifically over the past
five or six months, that just knowing there's other people
out there that are also going through it is incredibly helpful.
In the world of divorce, it can be very isolating,
(17:37):
and as we've seen thus far in this pandemic, has
been very isolating. So just knowing there's others out there
going through to whether they're experiencing the same way you
are or not. You don't need to be a spirit guide.
You just need to be an example and and create
a community. I love it. Yeah, yeah, No, it's really
it's the lie that depression and suffering tells us is
(17:58):
that we're alone and we're the only person who's ever
felt this bad, when the reality is the when you
really feel bad, that's like when we're all united in
like suffering. I've said that too many people over the
past five months. This pandemic isn't just happening to you,
believe it or not. I'm Laura Lasser, and this is
(18:21):
the All's Fair Podcast. On today's show, we're flipping through
the pages of some of my favorite reads this month,
including from Ship Show to Afterglow, Putting Life Back Together
when it All Falls Apart, the perfect anti self help
book about recovering after a Ship Show by Aerial Meadows Stallings.
I also want to recommend White Fragility. Why It's so
(18:41):
hard for White people to talk about Racism by Rob
and Dangelo Roddam by Curtis Sittenfeld, which is like this
awesome kind of sliding doors account of what would have
happened if Hillary rod and Clinton had gone in a
different direction. American Dirt by Janine Cummings, which was awesome
long Pedal of the Sea by Isabella Ende. If you
(19:01):
like Allende, you will love this one. Sex and Vanity
by Kevin Kwan. Kevin Quan is the author who wrote
Crazy Rich Asians and others of that ilk. But it
all takes place on Capri in Italy, which is where
I should be right now instead of in my living room. UM.
So that was a nice little escape. And of course
What Makes a Marriage Last by Marlo Thomas and Phil
(19:22):
Dono Hue, who have been guests on the All's Fair podcast,
and um interviewed about forty couples who had been in
long term marriages, all different ages, races, sexual orientations. Really
interesting relationship material and guidance. That's from Laura's book Club. Next,
(19:44):
I want to introduce you to another author who describes
himself as a father who had an epiphany. He's written
a how to guide for dads to remain active and
relevant in their kids lives after divorce, all the way
from Loysville, Kentucky virtually via zoom. Welcome to All's Fair,
Steve Adam, thank you for having me. It's a privilege.
Of course, I love the book. I know that you
(20:05):
live in Loisville with your dog Jack. By the way,
my son's name is Jack. And as much as possible
with your kids, Rachel and Carter. Rachel's a nursing student
at Western Kentucky University and Carter as a high school
student in Louisville. And when you're not doing your full
time job, you're a real estate agent. That's right. So
I do the real really it's but since you know,
since we started talking a little bit when I was
(20:25):
talking to Johnny, Hey, Johnny, Hey, good to see you,
Rachel is graduated and she is an r N with
Norton health Care here in Loyville. So that's one that's
kind of out of the nest. She was. She was
a senior when we first started talking, but she has
finished up and she's kind of she's adult team now.
She's finding out very quickly things change well, yes, especially
during a pandemic. Being at r ND. Wow, brave soul.
(20:49):
So I love that you did a Divorced Dad's Guide
to Parenting excellence because I, throughout my twenties six year
career as a family attorney, have represented probably believe it
or not, more dads than moms. And I am a
very big proponent of dad's rights. We've had a lot
of dads on the show. We've had a lot of
advocates for male and father's rights. I I truly do
(21:13):
believe that a dad can be just as good of
a parent as a mom, if not better in some instances,
and that even from birth, even if you're breastfeeding. We
have a lot of moms that say, well, I'm breastfeeding,
so I couldn't possibly share custody. I have had judges say,
pump and hand them off, and you can do this,
And I think it's important for bonding, and I think
it's important for kids. But I have found, and this
(21:36):
is why I thought your book was so awesome, that
a lot of times dad's fight, fight, fight, fight, fight
for custody, get custody, and then we'll call me and say,
don't ever tell anyone we have this conversation. But now
that I have them, I'm not exactly sure what to
do with them. And again, it's not the diapering or
bathing or putting to bed, it's during the day. A
lot of these mommy and me groups are just that
(21:58):
their mommy and me groups, and so dads sometimes don't
know exactly where to go, what to do. That's not
necessarily how we were all raised as if we're boys
to know the cookie baking and the art projects and
all that. So there is kind of a readjustment. So
I love that there's this book. Tell us a little
bit about what your motivation for it was and what
(22:18):
it's about. Well, first, let me say again, I really
appreciate you having me on the show, and it truly
was an epiphany when I uh started writing this book.
You know that the dialogue, Um, it's it's I've had
so many people that have said, you know what, Steve,
that's kind of tough love. You know when you read
some of the content in there, But you just hit
the nail on the head. There's so many dads that
(22:39):
will fight, fight, fight the irony two it is. They
don't think anything else is going to change in their life.
You know, the happy hours and the network functions and
the breakfast meetings and all those things. Oh, it can't
be that difficult, Steve, it can't be that hard. I
couldn't tell you how many people tried to play the
Monday morning quarterback. Well, I wouldn't take that if I
were you, I wouldn't do this. I wouldn't do that.
(22:59):
And now they're kind of you know, coming to see
me or talking or calling with you know, kind of
their head tuck between their legs saying wow, wow. Because
it was a huge adjustment. If you think nothing is
going to change, you're so off base. It's it's it's unbelievable.
It is truly the biggest life change and experience, including
and I say this respectfully, the loss of my father.
(23:21):
The year that I divorced, my father died as well.
You know, when it was it's tough, you know, it's
it's a tough tough time because your kids. You know,
you're breaking up a family and then you're losing a
family member, and you know, it's just it's difficult. Absolutely absolutely,
And as we spoke about with Ariel before, if you
can get through this, you have a different kind of
(23:43):
strength and realization about yourself but also about parenting. But
I do I think a lot of dads don't necessarily
realize it, and a lot of dads somehow think once
they've got their custodial time, Mom's still gonna be there
to fill in if they do have that breakfast off game.
And I say, well, this is for work and I'm
the breadwinner and you have says, no, baby, we're not
(24:03):
married anymore. For you, that is so spot on. Obviously
you've you've been doing this for so many years, because
I've had guys that they'll call and vent and they'll say,
can you believe that I call it and just ask
her to do this or do that or do this,
And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, you fought
for a year to get what you've got, and now
(24:24):
you want to, you know, you want to kind of
go back on what you agreed to, you know, to do.
So it's it's looking back now. I mean, you know,
the X and I are fine with each other, we're
very civil, the kids are doing great. But I mean
it's been a decade as well, so you know, but
you have definitely paved the road. I think for other
dads who are now seeing this and going, oh, I
(24:44):
get it, or I read Steve's book and now I
get what he's saying. So I'm not going to be
that kind of jerky guy that calls on her. But
maybe I'll say, hey, do we do we know a
neighbor or is there a babysitter that maybe I can
call on and ask if I could get some help here,
so corton to kind of be a united front, so
not to shirk responsibility, but you you are in this together,
(25:05):
and we do need to figure out a way to
help each other out, and maybe sometimes you can and say, look,
I know this is not your obligation, but do you
think maybe you could take them on Tuesday because I've
got this thing and I'll make it up next week
with something else for you. That's how I am with
my two exes. They're super great. And I lost a
parent last year as well, which was devastating, and I
(25:26):
will say both of them, both of the fathers of
my two boys, were so there for me because and
this is what I really try on this show and
in my practice to get through to people. We're a family.
We don't live together anymore, we don't sleep together anymore,
but we are a family, and we have a common interest,
which is our children and making sure everybody is healthy
(25:48):
and sane, And especially now during this pandemic with so
many parents going, I don't want them at your house.
Your girlfriend's a skank, she's probably got the coronavirus. I
don't want them going over there, or they shouldn't be
a your house because now we're doing online schooling and
they need to be somewhere that's quiet and it's too
loud at your house. Or I can't afford to pay
you support anymore. We agreed to it, but I'm not
(26:09):
making anybody all of these things coming up. If you're
in it together and you can work through it, you
save yourself time and aggravation and fees. I mean, it's
it really makes so much sense, but it's much easier
said than done. I do get that, but civilities everything. Yes,
So what are the key principles for parenting covered in
now what? Well, we have a lot of aid and
(26:31):
I tried to you know, it's funny because a lot
of the principles in this they all hover around social media.
I think that you know a little bit of how
you know, when when we started this project a couple
of years ago, um, you know, I was telling the
guy that kind of helped me out here in Maibas
said we need to make this current. You know, we
want to short read because people's attention span is kind
(26:54):
of short today. Is if we're you know, not not
the war in peace books and things like that. So
a short book that they can pass long. It's a
hard bound um priorities. You know where your priorities lie.
You know, as a father, um is at the happy hour,
is it the close in the next sale, is it
the business networking meeting? Or is it making sure your
son or daughter is up having breakfast? You know, and
(27:17):
you know there's gonna be times that you have to
say no, you know, where do your priorities lie? And
the reality of it is, you know, as a father,
I had to ask myself, how do you want to
be remembered as the chronic workaholic? Or can you find
that medium that that balance and balance has you know,
what happens to be another one of the principles that
(27:37):
we use success. You know, the definition of success for
me has changed at fifty then it was at twenty
when I came out of college chasing the dollar, chasing
the dollar. And you know, for so many years I
was on the corporate side for twenty two years and
traveling in hotels and work, work, work, work, work, searching
for success. But then when I you know, it was
confronted with divorce, success was right in front of me,
(28:00):
my children, and I just didn't see it. I had
my blinders on. I was chasing the dollar. Just work, work, work, work, work,
and gone. And that's why that I had. I got
the rights to cats and the Cradle in the in
the front of the book, and I had to call
the label and get that because it is the epitome
of most men in corporate America. You know it's it's uh.
And then there is a structure making sure that back
(28:24):
to your initial point, you fought for them, you got them.
But if it's havoc all the time, is it really
of their best interest? And the answer is no. I
mean things are changing my life, change more then you
can even fathom. When I took this on to do
it the right way. I'm not the expert. I'm not
the marriage counselor the social work or the psychiatrist or
(28:44):
or any of the above. Um, it was trial and error.
I've got the PhD in hard knocks and a lot
of um just scratching my head and saying, oh my god,
I had no idea. UM bit my tongue a lot,
sucked up, my pride a lot. Avoid the venting on
the social media platforms you know that's uh. You know
when I read some of the things that people have
(29:05):
the god to put out there on these platforms, and
their kids and their kids, teachers and the counselors and
other parents and neighbors, they all see it, you know,
they all see it. And once it's out there, it's
not going to go away. And it's just it's something
you have to refrain from doing, and it's hard. It sucks,
you know. You you just have a conversation with your
(29:25):
ex and you're like, okay, I'll show her and just
really you know, bash out a couple of paragraphs. They're
just to get that social validation, you know, the likes,
the comments this that I'm you know, my prayers are
with you, or I wouldn't put up with that. It's
the same, you know, it's the same things, the same
comments that people you know want, they want that validation.
(29:47):
That's why I think it's so important to have a
sense of community, like we're talking about before, not necessarily
out in the ether with people that you don't know,
but a sense of community. When I probably fifteen years
ago now had a group of I mean, it just
happened that I had like five dads and they all
had kids that were I think preschool age, so they
(30:08):
were probably in their three, two threes four. So dad
spout for custody. We got them custody. California is very
kind of pro fifty fifty equal time if possible, and
so these guys all had their custody. But then they
were really having a hard time figuring out what to
do with their kids when they weren't in that four
hour day preschool program or whatever. And so I put
(30:31):
them all together. I just said, I asked them if
they were interested, put them on a group email. And
the interesting thing is that to this day, these got
their kids are now either in high school or college.
They still keep in touch. Now they actually are going
to happy alreadygether because they don't have to be with
the park. But they said one of the most beneficial
things not just having to go being able to go
(30:52):
to the park and not sit next to like a
nanny or a mom, but they actually were with a
dude so they could talk about the game the night
before while watching their kids, but that they were able
to commiserate, and they were able to commiserate in a
safe space where they said that bitch, can you believe
or whatever. But it didn't go to social media. It
never left the group. You know, they said, well, you know,
misery loves company. You think that's bad, look what she
(31:13):
did to me, and then they that it was out.
I mean, that is, that is that's the way to
do it. And it's you know, you know, I never
claimed to have the remedy to all these things, you know,
through the process, But you're exactly right. I mean, obviously
you're an attorney and you've you've been doing this for many,
many years. But to find another outlet that really does
not exploit the situation two millions of people out there, um,
(31:38):
you know, it's it's really you know, it's certainly going
to drive a wedge between you and your kids because
your kids can defensive event How do kids spell love?
That's one of the things that's touched on in the
book Time. That's a zig zigular quote. It's one of
my favorites, you know, and and we and it also
kind of trickles down to spending that time with kids,
because if you're not spending that time with those kids,
(31:59):
someone going to They're gonna gravitate to something or someone.
M Now, what are your rules or how what are
the tips you can give us and the listeners about
helping your kids. Your kids navigate social media well any
time that, especially with everything going on, it really works
to my favor, even as they've gotten older. You know,
(32:19):
I wish that. I don't wish for the pandemic, but
you know, when there's things like that that happened, you
can see the violence and you can see the the
anger and the hate that's out there. And we'll sit
down and watch the videos and and you know, and
I try to explain to them, look at this, you know,
look at this. There's so many people that are just
posting things. They need the attention. There's some narcissistic tendencies
(32:42):
there of people that just look at me, look at me,
look at me. And you know, the media is guilty
of it. People are guilty of it. They need these platforms.
They feed off these platforms. And I try to show
the positive, you know. I send both kids jokes and
I'll tag them on funny pictures of kids. It's and
you know, they're both dog lovers. We've always had dogs,
(33:03):
you know, And and try to show the positive. I
text them in the mornings and and say, hey, have
a great day and be kind, you know, tell someone something,
say something nice, hold a door for someone, and just
try to instill those But you have to stay consistent
because if you don't stay consistent, you're gonna send mixed signals.
One day you're piste off and you're yelling at him,
(33:23):
and the next day you're saying, have a great day,
be kind. Well, you know, so when you send those
mixed signals, it's it's very difficult, you know, for the
kids not to scratch their head and say, yeah, I'm dead,
but yesterday you were just being an ass. You know what,
how old is Carter? Now? Carter is seventeen, so he's
going into his senior Yeah that's virtual right now, but
(33:43):
he's yeah, this is it okay. And now my mom,
when my brother and our grap would put notes in
our lunchbox, which at a certain age I was like
please enough what the notes was still embarrassing. But when
I was a kid, you know, mid day you open
the lunch and there's a note from that. With my kids,
um and when they were really little, it's what helped
them learn to read. Let's bring ariel, Will you mute yourself?
(34:05):
And I think you can see her on your screen there, Steve. So,
this is Ariel and she and she's a she's a
divorce mom too. She's got a ten year old son. So,
Johnny and I talked a little bit at the top
of the show about some of the shocking statistics regarding
kids and literacy in the US. You guys are both authors,
you're both parents. What advice can you share with other
(34:26):
parents to encourage again their elementary school kids or Steve
in your case, their teens. How do you encourage them
to read more? And I don't just mean the Instagram
or the snapchat little caption book. Yeah, Ariel, Yeah, you know,
I um still read with my son, even though he's
turning eleven in a few months, and you know, it's
(34:46):
totally happy to read chapter books on his own. We
still choose books to read together in part because it
gives us opportunities to have conversations. It gives us, um
opportunities to talk over vocabulary words it. I know he's
learning in context that I'm like, oh, hey, you know
that's a big five syllable word. Do you know that one?
Let's talk about it. So, even though he's old enough
(35:08):
to read alone, we still um read a little together.
We'll see how long that lasts. Well, that's awesome. Yeah,
how about you, Steve as Carter reading, My teenager is
not reading very much at all, and there's not much
I can do about it. I can put the books there.
He's not interested in. My ten year old actually reads. Well,
you know, it's it's funny. Carter and I've had conversations
and I know he's something. Well I hope that he's
(35:29):
kids that he's you know, he talks about being a
YouTube sensation, but he just does that to pull my strength.
You know, I'll subscribe to the magazines, you know, ESPN
magazine and Rachel. When she was younger, my mom would
give her cookbooks and she would just flip through the
cookbooks and she started, you know, and and some of
her Christmas was new crock pod and all the you know,
the new air stuff and all the you know, the
(35:50):
the creg and things kind of that she that she needed. Um.
So I kind of took that back door approach with
not necessarily a lot of books. And then you know,
I gave her some of my Peter Montoya the brand
called You, and some books that I've had you know,
just talks about um, motivation and self worth and just
you know, self improvement and things like that. And she'll
(36:11):
read them for a while and you know, and then
she'll sit them down. But you know, I watch because
then I'll see it folded open on her bed, you know,
before she moved out, so I know she's back in
there again. And I'm like, Progress likes some magazines, he
likes reading articles online. He likes doing, you know, watch
sports blogs and and things like that. Um, I try
to keep him off that. So a lot of times,
(36:32):
to answer your question, I'll stop at a bookstore and
pick up something off clearance racks at Books a Million
or or somewhere and just grab a sports book on
the Lakers. Are the Bulls back in the nineties or
or something like that, And then nostalgia of it really
attracts him. He looks at and he's like, oh my gosh,
look how short they're short square back then. But but
(36:54):
you know what, it gets his it gets his interest,
and it keeps him off of the Instagram and the
Twitter in the Facebook. So to me, even though it's
baby steps, it's certainly progress, so you know, and it's
it's created really hopefully lifelong habits. Rachel was more of
a reader. Now she's out of the two. I always
said she's the uh, the very studious one, and I
(37:18):
you know, I laugh. But it's funny. Carter maybe the
one that's pumping the keg on campus with his hat
on back where it's telling the jokes. But the jury
is still at on that we'll see. Yeah, I think,
like so many things with parenting, it's also it's about modeling, right.
We can hand them books all we want, but until
they walk into the living room and we're sitting there
curled around our own book, and I do. And I'm
(37:39):
a reader, and I think you certainly have to read,
you know, lead by example. And I know that that
phrase has been around forever, but I'm a big reader. Um,
just tons and tons of business journals and business books
and motivation and all the Ziggler stuff years ago and
sales and and things like that. So, uh, you know,
I think you certainly to lead by example because their
(38:01):
rebuttal is we don't read. You don't do it? Do
your kids read your books? Ariel? And yeah, the ones
they wrote. I mean, I know your son's young, Ariel,
for example, but he must know that he's referenced in
your book, right, Yeah, and the new book is dedicated
to him, So um, he finds my books boring because
(38:23):
it's nonfiction, and he's very clear that he's a fiction guy,
so he's like, yeah, you know, I tell my friends
that my mom's a writer, but she writes boring books
because it's nonfiction. And I'm like, well that's okay. Um,
and my books also aren't super age appropriate for him
at this point. So um, I have actually in the
acknowledgements in the back, like, you know, eternal gratitude to
(38:45):
my son, who will read this book someday and be like,
oh god, mom. So I mean, he knows his mom's
a weirdo, so it's not like he's going to be shure.
But that's typical at this point. He finds my writing
boring because it's nonfiction. How about you? Yeah, Rachel's. Rachel's
read the book, and I think Carter kind of flipped
through it, you know, when when it released last year,
(39:06):
And uh, I'm not so sure that he would fess
up and say that he read it anyway. They are
just those two kids are so so different. She read it,
and I think she's passed it along. But it's interesting
because you know, I'll do some branding on social media
and Instagram, and I started seeing an influx of Western
Kentucky students before Rachel graduated that we're you know, coming
on board and you know, and and following some of
(39:28):
my stuff. And I'm thinking, so, you know, and you know,
and they're all she runs around a very good group
of kids that very academically sound. And I think Carter's
kind of flipped through it and looked at some of
the illustrations maybe and read the you know, the acknowledgements
and and that kind of thing. But but that's okay.
I mean, he's getting the age now where the last
year or so I've really experienced significant changes in him
(39:52):
in terms of maturity. So do either of you watch
any of the legal dramas The Good Fight or the
new Perry Mason or anything that's streaming now, like anybody
like legal shows. I'm totally sucked into love on the
spectrum right now, which is definitely not not a llegal anything.
But all right, Well, in any event, what's coming up
(40:16):
next is something you'll never see on one of those
shows anyway, but you'll hear them here. This is something
we do in the family law realm called discovery, and
it's we call them the interrogatory. So do each swear
to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth. Which relationship in your life has had the
most profound impact? Just relationship in general. Yeah, it could
(40:37):
be a teacher, kids, parents, It's kids. It's kids, because
I I know without question it's kids. And I've thought
about this because you know, reading through some of the things,
and you know, in the corporate world, as you know, um,
if you're willing to pay the price, and that price
is travel when they own you and you just work, work, work, work, work, relentless,
and you know you're living in airports and hotels. And
(40:59):
I did that, and without question I would have found
that success. You know, I was pushing for and stayed
on that path, and I did. By most people's standards,
I've been very blessed beyond and and all that is
great in theory, but without question, it's the biggest life
changing experience. Um, they've had the biggest impact, and they
they have shown me that there's so much more out there.
(41:21):
It really ruled me back into where I needed to be.
And every time I speak now, it always includes how
do you want to be remembered? I mean, what do
you want your legacy to be? And I know that
sounds kind of hokey and a lot of people use
that tagline and things, but it's it's so true with
with kids, Um, you know, do you want to be
known as, Oh my gosh, you know that guy worked
(41:43):
his ass off seven days a week. Or I've never
met a better father, a more committed father that made
the difference in these kids lives. And there's no there's
no comparison to me at this point in my life. Now,
it's funny. I'd say I got a plane to catch
the fifty. It's different. Ariel, what's your favorite love song? Oh?
(42:03):
You know, I'm gonna say, um, Rihanna's Sex with Me
is amazing. You know I bet you that that's Steve's too.
Just kidding, all right, So I think I know Steve's
answered this question. Ariel, what's the one piece of advice
you'd share with your twenty cemething year old self. You
(42:25):
know it's cliche, but uh, it really has proven to
be true that the journey is the destination. I think
as someone who is very ambitious and a business owner.
I've always been and Steve can probably relate to this.
I've always been very focused on my results in my
r o I and what's the outcome? Show me the
bottom line, and UM. As I've moved into midlife, I've realized, oh,
(42:48):
there's no there there, and actually the journey of how
you get where you're going is as important, if not
more important, than where you actually end up. So I agree, Steve.
Do you know what a rom com is? Romantic comedy?
What's your favorite romantic comedy? What could you watch over
(43:10):
and over again? I was trying to think of the
name of it earlier. It's um, I don't know, I
don't know. I had a song. I had a song
that was my favorite song. What's your song? What's your song?
This song is? This song is amazing to me, and
it's about Van Morrison. I'll be your lover too. Now
that goes back a little bit that that does. I'm
(43:31):
older than you, so I feel you. I I know
that Ben Morrison song. I also know the Rihanna song Ariel.
Which rom com could you watch on repeat? Oh? You know?
Does Book Smart count as a rom com? Yes? It's
sort of like a lady a lady romance, right that
that film captured like the joy of female friendship for
(43:54):
me in ways that I'd never seen captured on screen before,
which they were amazing. By the way, which relationship in
your life has had the most profound impact, you know,
I have to say my son, because even in the
moments that are extremely frustrating, I learned more about myself
in those frustrations because oh my god, she who smelt it,
(44:15):
dealt it. And my son is a little manager and
a little bossy boss, and I have these moments where
I just it's like looking into a fun house mirror,
and um, I'm very aware that I'm raising, you know, um,
the future of you know, I'm raising someone's future spouse.
(44:38):
I'm raising someone's future manager. And we spend a lot
of time talking about empathetic management technique. That's a great point,
that really is because you really are we're you know,
we're passing the we're passing the b time and it's
it's tougher and tougher each generation. I know it's all relative,
but I mean I would argue that for days in
(44:58):
terms of adversity, and you see the current affairs. And
you know, I think now more than ever you have
to continue to stay involved and and talk to them
and not being a state of denial and not say well,
this doesn't apply to us. It certainly does. It's it's
it's relevant every single day that you instill this and say, hey,
(45:20):
be kind, you'll be kind. This This is not how
the entire world is meant to be. It's not how
everyone is. Surround yourself around good people, successful people, see
how they got that way, and and model mimic, mimic
those things, those traits totally. Ariel Meadows, Stalling and Steve Adams,
(45:41):
thank you so much for joining us today, and all's fair,
we are honored to have had you. Ariel. Please tell
everyone where we can find you online and snap up
a copy of your books, including the latest from ship
Show to Afterglow. Yeah, I am at find your Afterglow
on both Instagram and Facebook, and then you can find
me on my website where I have a membership program
(46:02):
for the really good stuff over at find your Afterglow
dot com and the Offbeat Empire tell us about that.
So yeah, the Offbeat Mutter is the umbrella company for
all my publishing work. So that includes offbeat Bride dot com.
That includes offbeat Home dot com. And then this new
venture with find Your Afterglow dot com and Steve Adams
(46:22):
tell us where we can find you online and where
dad's and moms because I think mom's benefit to can
find your divorced Dad's Guide to Parenting Excellence. Now what sure?
Instagram is Steve Adams three. Twitter is at Steve Adams three.
Facebook is Steve Adams. The book is on Amazon. It's inaudible. Um,
(46:43):
a local guy, Barry Burnson had done a phenomenal job
on the audible version of it. And then the local
publisher is Carol Butler here in loysbll Butler Books dot com. Perfect.
Thank you both so much. This was great, great conversations. Um, folks, listeners,
get those books, check them out. UM, join our community,
be part of this. Thank you both very very much.
(47:06):
Aerial Meadow Stallings book From Ship Show to Afterglow Putting
Life Back Together after It Falls Apart. Steve Adams book
Now What a Divorced Dad's Guide to Parenting Excellence? Both
fantastic reads. Um, both part of our community, and I
don't know, I kind of thought it was so cool
to have somebody from Washington State and somebody from Kentucky
(47:28):
and we're here in California. We all can read, which
is good giving what we learned the story about literacy.
I'm Laura Wasser, I'm an attorney, and I'm the CEO
of the online divorce service It's over Easy. You know.
I'm into next chapters and I'd love to hear what
you think we should read next. You can drop me
messages on social It's over easy, and you're invited to
(47:50):
join my private Facebook group at its over easy community.
We are talking about relationships and the evolution of dissolution.
Leave us a review at I Tunes and share us
with your friends. That's our show. All's fair. Thank you
for listening. Now go read a fucking book. M
Hi there. It's me Laura Wasser, the divorce attorney and
the founder of It's over Easy, the online divorce service.
I've been practicing family law for over twenty years and
I've worked on thousands of divorces, shepherding people through what
may be one of the most terrifying times in their lives.
(00:22):
Along the way, I often have to remind people to
lower their expectations when dealing with matters of the heart.
Rules simply don't apply. Because all's fair in love and war.
So welcome to the All's Fair Podcasts. Fasten your seatbelts
and let's go. Hello all, It's me Laura Wasser and
(00:43):
yours truly Johnny Rains. As you know from listening to
our show on our social channels at It's over Easy,
relationships are evolving in the twenty first century, and one
of our goals is to change the way people look
at their relationships, including the ones that culminate in divorce.
From matters of the heart, to friend ships like mine
and Laura's, to our relationship with politics, finances, and even
(01:04):
with authority. They're all up for discussion in our private
Facebook group It's over Easy Community, and right here on
all's fair, and they also make for good reading. And
I love to read, and apparently so to millennials Laura.
In a recent study on statista dot com that looks
at coronavirus and reading habits, millennials are the most likely
(01:24):
group of adults to read while self isolating, with saying
they were more inclined to do so seven percent higher
than all adults in total. That's actually surprising to me,
but happily so. Actually, yeah, it's quite surprising, especially when
you think about the literacy rates in the United States.
I know, so you sent me this article from Library Journal,
(01:46):
How serious is America's literacy problem? By Amy Ray? And
I was, um, I was really surprised. Yeah, it's it's
sublight almost on our society here in the United States. Um.
This is part one of an ongoing series that the
Library Journal is doing defining the broad scope and depth
(02:07):
of the literacy crisis in the United States among both
children and adults. And look at that map. I mean
some of the states that have the orange that's illiteracy,
including our state. That's incredible. No wonder where in the
ship hole right now? Well, you know. The article goes
on to point out that Florida, New York, and California
have the lowest literacy rates in the country. Um, and
(02:30):
you're absolutely right. The literacy is absolutely tied with people's
health and people's longevity and to poverty. According to the
National Center for Educational Statistics, of adults in the United
States fall into the illiterate category. That's about forty three
million and nearly two thirds of fourth graders read below
(02:51):
grade level, and the same number graduate from high school
still reading below grade level. This puts the United States
well behind several other countries in the world, and leading Japan,
all the Scandinavian countries, Canada, the Republic of Korea, and
the UK Way to go USA well next to speaking
with Johnny and all of you here on All's Fair,
(03:11):
reading books with my book club is one of my
top five most favorite activities. I'm actually I know I'm
such a nerd when I'm actually in two different book clubs,
and I'm a voracious reader, and I like being able
to read and share and discuss things, so many of
my favorite things to do. This year, I've had to
be adapted a bit because we've been doing my book
clubs virtually, and so consider this an invitation to our
(03:36):
new virtual book club at All's Fair and joining the
club today virtually via Zoom is our first guest, who
just published the definitive and irreverent Guide on How to
Recover from a Ship Show, which is what we really
need right now. It's the perfect anti self help book,
which Publishers Weekly calls delightfully unorthodox. She's also the author
of two other books, including Offbeat Bride, Create a Wedding
(03:57):
That's Authentically You, and she's the career or of the
wedding planning site of the same name that challenges you
to alter a L T A R You're thinking with
the web's original weird weddings blog. In addition to all that,
her work has been featured by dozens of outlets, including
The New York Times, Huff Post, and Refinery twenty nine. So,
without further ado, welcome to All's Fair Aerial Meadow Stallings.
(04:22):
Thank you so much for having me, Thank you for
being here from Seattle all the way. So Ariel your website,
find your afterglow dot com. You got your start in
the mid nineties editing a rave magazine. And you say
you're a middle you don't look middle aged to me.
I don't know, it's it's just because it's dark in
the in the colthics, middle aged, middle class white woman
(04:42):
and the mom of a son who's tent. Me too.
Actually I actually look middle aged class and I have
a ten year old. So how did your divorce teach
you everything you needed to know about surviving the ship?
Show that you know? Um, it comes down to a
few core things. Uh. First off, sometimes life blindsides you.
(05:05):
Things you did not expect land on your plate and
you have to change everything. And you did not agree
to this, you did not plan for this, and yet
somehow you can be okay. So wait, I have a Questionnail.
What's in a niagram? Aniagram? The demigram is a kind
of pop psychology typology system, so sort of like Myers
(05:29):
Briggs right, where there's like these different personality types. But
the aniagram, which rose to popularity in the seventies in
the U s UM, is based kind of around these
motivational arc types that it's less about the behaviors that
you exhibit and more about the motivations internally for those behaviors. Oh,
(05:49):
I like I was a rhetoric major, and so we
would take like a rhetoric of like avant garde poetry
or rhetoric of you know, debate, and so, rather than
thinking about what the words were, we were thinking about
the motivation that whatever the author, painter, poet was trying
to convey the same type of thing. Yeah, yeah, I know.
The angiogram is all about understanding that the core motivations
(06:09):
are how we ultimately frame our lives. It's all just
kind of how we compensate for our fears, and the
different motivations cause us to act in different ways. It's
been really helpful for me and kind of compassion building,
both self compassion and understanding other people. So what's in
any type three W four and my own trophy wife?
(06:33):
So and and angiogram three is a very achievement based person.
So I'm definitely a ladder climber and very focused on
accomplishment and uh success, which of course makes a divorce
for a wedding industry person all the more of a failure, right,
(06:53):
Like I'm like very ambitious. Well, yeah, you climb that
ladder and you won. Oh I climb that ladder and
then that latter fell out from underneath me. So that's
the that's the angiogram part and then the my own
trophy wife is you know, I'm a small business owner,
uh breadwinner. Um, I work really hard so that I
(07:16):
can take care of myself and live the life I
want to live. So uh, it's funny because when I
was first starting to date after my divorce, people were like,
I don't understand what's happening here, because I was like,
I'm a small business owner, Get out of my way.
But also, you know, I really just want to like
hang out and myself nice clothes, and so once I
(07:38):
was on my own, I had to kind of be
both halves of the marriage, both the breadwinner and the
trophy wife. So I like that thing. And it really
does give you an opportunity to represent yourself. Rather than
representing yourself, you're representing yourself to yourself and to whomever
you encounter, whether it's in business, social, etcetera. And I
(08:00):
think that's one of the coolest things about kind of
you know, not ending a relationship, but evolving out of
one kind of a relationship and into new relationships. So
the possibilities of new relationships. So, how did your divorce
teach you everything you needed to know about surviving the ship.
You know. Um, it comes down to a few core things. Uh.
(08:24):
First off, sometimes life blindsides you. Things you did not
expect land on your plate and you have to change
everything and you did not agree to this, you did
not plan for this, and yet somehow you can be okay,
So you know, sort of understanding that blind siding happens.
It helped me. It was a rough lesson five years ago,
(08:47):
but it's a lesson that when I got blindsided by
I was like, Okay, I can roll with this. I've
done this. I think the second big lesson is that
all your foundations can crumble simultaneously, right like you or
financial foundation, your identity foundation, your domestic foundation, right like,
all these things can It's always a cluster, right like,
(09:09):
it's always a cluster. And um, again, somehow you can
adapt and be resilient. And I learned that in the
context of my divorce when it felt like, you know,
how could could there be another context that that falls apart?
And yes there's more, and then this and then that
and then when hit and I was like, oh, now
it's a pandemic. Now it's a quarantine. Now it's a
(09:31):
long overdue racial justice awakening. Now it's you know what
heinous election year? Right, like all of these things, all
the foundations you know now the bottom fell out of
my finances, and yet I had learned through the context
of my divorce that everything can crumble beneath your feet
and somehow you can keep walking. Somehow. We're resilient creatures.
(09:54):
Do you believe if it doesn't kill you, it makes
you stronger? Boy? I hate to say yes, And I
don't think that you need to go through terrible suffering
to find your sense of resilience and adaptability. But certainly,
if you go through a period of personal or cultural
collective suffering, um, humans are very adaptable creatures, and and
(10:19):
you do learn a sense of strength that you did
not have before. For sure. So you call your daily
devotional practice lap dances for God and say that burlesque
lessons are the best therapy, Please explain absolutely so, um. I.
As part of getting over my the trauma of my divorce,
I did some burlesque classes here in Seattle at a
(10:41):
place called the Academy of Burlesque. And it was interesting
because a lot of the aspects of the lesson tied
into things I was working on in other parts of
my life. So um, the instructor kept reminding me to
stay focused on my breath, and I was like, wait
a minute, this sounds very familiar to like your breast,
my my bacus on the breath. Um, and that was
(11:07):
something I was working on in my sort of baby
meditation practice. So I was like, right. And then, um,
you know, for anyone who's read that book The Body
Keeps the Score by Bessel vander Kolke, which is all
about how trauma lives in the body, moving the body
is such a powerful way to get that trauma out
in ways that we can't through talk and analysis. And
(11:31):
I mean I love talking and I love analysis, but
there were certain aspects of that healing process that I
could not do with my brain that moving really helped with.
And um, of course it helps with rebuilding body autonomy
right like this my body, Um, I'm not sharing it
with a partner right now. Uh, rebuilding your self esteem.
(11:53):
And then um, you know neural plasticity, right, which as
we get older, this ability that our means have to
keep learning things. Uh. Certainly divorce is a terrible lesson,
but it was helpful for me in learning to dance
to remember that I can feel stupid, and I can
learn new skills and and even though I'm in my
(12:16):
mid forties, you know, you can teach an old dog
new tricks. And it's not a comfortable experience, but um,
your brain can grow and shift and that was a
really valuable part of that training. And it was also
just fun to stick my button the air. I mean
that that's a form of therapy too. And there you
have it. So okay. So in just just last month, um,
(12:36):
this summer, you published from ship Show to after Glow
Putting Life Back Together when it all falls apart? What
took five years after the divorce? I take it, yes,
you you wrote this book or you probably started writing
it about four years after divorce, probably actually really started
when it was collecting information. What made you decide to
(12:56):
share this experience right this book? I mean that's I
want to get to the heart of that in our
book clubs because I I think it's amazing that people
have these revelations and that they're willing to share because
I think they're so helpful. Yeah, you know, it was
it was two things, really, and the first one was that,
as a writer, writing this book was just about survival.
(13:17):
I mean, that's so much a part of recovering from
the grief of divorce, the grief of any big loss.
UM is just having a reason to wake up and
get out of bed in the morning. And for me, um,
writing was the thing that gave me purpose to some
(13:37):
very dark, empty days, especially with I was immediately doing
custody with my son, so he was gone half the time.
So I had gone from you know, wife and a
breadwinner and a mother full time to all of a sudden,
half of my life being this vacuum of empty time
and space. Especially as someone who's self employed, I didn't
have a boss. I was the boss, so I had
(14:00):
to have my own internal purpose to do something and
writing was what helped me get up in the morning.
And the other motivation was, you know, as someone who
spent almost fifteen years in the wedding industry, I wrote
a book about my wedding. I then you know, published
this website for almost fifteen years, supporting other people in
planning their weddings. I did have a measure of you know,
(14:23):
not culpability, but responsibility to my readership. You know, I
helped you all get into this and now as I'm
in the process of getting out of it. I know
so many of us go through this. I want to
be a support to the readers who have been with me.
You know. Again, not that it was my fault that
(14:43):
anybody got married and then got divorced, but but if
I supported you on getting into the marriage, then I
would also be accountable for supporting you in the process
of healing after the divorce. I love that. So there
was also a medical crisis too. There was a the
I was divorce medical. So what what was that? If
you don't find me as Yes, while I was working
(15:05):
a five person wedding expo in a silver sequin dress, um,
one of my ovaries exploded, which is a thing that
sounds really painful. Yeah, no, it was excruciating pain. And
UM I thought maybe it was just food poisoning or
something like the worst food poisoning I've ever had. So
(15:26):
I continued to work this wedding. You wouldn't want to
waste the dress dress, you know. I had the hair done,
I had a full face of makeup. I was like,
it's fine, just grit and make it through. And it
wasn't until a few days later that I ended up
in the hospital and then emergency surgery and um, it was.
It was gruesome. I was in the hospital for over
(15:48):
a week a month of relearning how to walk. It
was it was how does that does? Why does that happen?
How does that happen? You know it's um. I did
not know that I had endometriosis, but it can be
a symptom of endo is is kind of this chronic
ovarian thing that then if it gets too bad, it
just blows up. So there goes I mean, you know.
It was a great metaphor for just like there went
(16:11):
that life. Oh my goodness, all right, well again to
our listeners from ship Show to after Glow, putting life
back together when it all falls apart. And I really
do I love your way of thinking arial that you
were the captain of the ship in terms of so
many of these people getting married, wedding planning, all of that,
and then you didn't just leave them, so to speak,
(16:32):
but you were like, by the way, this happened to
me too, whether it's your personal experience or not, I
want to share it with you. I love that. Thank you. Yeah.
And it was really part of Offbeat Bride was supporting
people in planning a wedding, not that looked like my wedding,
because we're all different people, but supporting them in planning
a wedding that was an authentic expression of themselves. And
so part of from ship Show to after Glow is
(16:53):
saying your recovery and healing process may not look anything
like mine, but I will model what it looks like
to find authentic healing mind, body, spirit, you know, kind
of the usual stuff, and support. In the same way
I supported and cheer led people through planning their authentic weddings,
I can support and cheerlead people through having an authentic,
(17:14):
embodied recovery process recovering from whether it's a divorce or
the ship show of I mean, we're all in it now.
I think sometimes I have found, specifically over the past
five or six months, that just knowing there's other people
out there that are also going through it is incredibly helpful.
In the world of divorce, it can be very isolating,
(17:37):
and as we've seen thus far in this pandemic, has
been very isolating. So just knowing there's others out there
going through to whether they're experiencing the same way you
are or not. You don't need to be a spirit guide.
You just need to be an example and and create
a community. I love it. Yeah, yeah, No, it's really
it's the lie that depression and suffering tells us is
(17:58):
that we're alone and we're the only person who's ever
felt this bad, when the reality is the when you
really feel bad, that's like when we're all united in
like suffering. I've said that too many people over the
past five months. This pandemic isn't just happening to you,
believe it or not. I'm Laura Lasser, and this is
(18:21):
the All's Fair Podcast. On today's show, we're flipping through
the pages of some of my favorite reads this month,
including from Ship Show to Afterglow, Putting Life Back Together
when it All Falls Apart, the perfect anti self help
book about recovering after a Ship Show by Aerial Meadows Stallings.
I also want to recommend White Fragility. Why It's so
(18:41):
hard for White people to talk about Racism by Rob
and Dangelo Roddam by Curtis Sittenfeld, which is like this
awesome kind of sliding doors account of what would have
happened if Hillary rod and Clinton had gone in a
different direction. American Dirt by Janine Cummings, which was awesome
long Pedal of the Sea by Isabella Ende. If you
(19:01):
like Allende, you will love this one. Sex and Vanity
by Kevin Kwan. Kevin Quan is the author who wrote
Crazy Rich Asians and others of that ilk. But it
all takes place on Capri in Italy, which is where
I should be right now instead of in my living room. UM.
So that was a nice little escape. And of course
What Makes a Marriage Last by Marlo Thomas and Phil
(19:22):
Dono Hue, who have been guests on the All's Fair podcast,
and um interviewed about forty couples who had been in
long term marriages, all different ages, races, sexual orientations. Really
interesting relationship material and guidance. That's from Laura's book Club. Next,
(19:44):
I want to introduce you to another author who describes
himself as a father who had an epiphany. He's written
a how to guide for dads to remain active and
relevant in their kids lives after divorce, all the way
from Loysville, Kentucky virtually via zoom. Welcome to All's Fair,
Steve Adam, thank you for having me. It's a privilege.
Of course, I love the book. I know that you
(20:05):
live in Loisville with your dog Jack. By the way,
my son's name is Jack. And as much as possible
with your kids, Rachel and Carter. Rachel's a nursing student
at Western Kentucky University and Carter as a high school
student in Louisville. And when you're not doing your full
time job, you're a real estate agent. That's right. So
I do the real really it's but since you know,
since we started talking a little bit when I was
(20:25):
talking to Johnny, Hey, Johnny, Hey, good to see you,
Rachel is graduated and she is an r N with
Norton health Care here in Loyville. So that's one that's
kind of out of the nest. She was. She was
a senior when we first started talking, but she has
finished up and she's kind of she's adult team now.
She's finding out very quickly things change well, yes, especially
during a pandemic. Being at r ND. Wow, brave soul.
(20:49):
So I love that you did a Divorced Dad's Guide
to Parenting excellence because I, throughout my twenties six year
career as a family attorney, have represented probably believe it
or not, more dads than moms. And I am a
very big proponent of dad's rights. We've had a lot
of dads on the show. We've had a lot of
advocates for male and father's rights. I I truly do
(21:13):
believe that a dad can be just as good of
a parent as a mom, if not better in some instances,
and that even from birth, even if you're breastfeeding. We
have a lot of moms that say, well, I'm breastfeeding,
so I couldn't possibly share custody. I have had judges say,
pump and hand them off, and you can do this,
And I think it's important for bonding, and I think
it's important for kids. But I have found, and this
(21:36):
is why I thought your book was so awesome, that
a lot of times dad's fight, fight, fight, fight, fight
for custody, get custody, and then we'll call me and say,
don't ever tell anyone we have this conversation. But now
that I have them, I'm not exactly sure what to
do with them. And again, it's not the diapering or
bathing or putting to bed, it's during the day. A
lot of these mommy and me groups are just that
(21:58):
their mommy and me groups, and so dads sometimes don't
know exactly where to go, what to do. That's not
necessarily how we were all raised as if we're boys
to know the cookie baking and the art projects and
all that. So there is kind of a readjustment. So
I love that there's this book. Tell us a little
bit about what your motivation for it was and what
(22:18):
it's about. Well, first, let me say again, I really
appreciate you having me on the show, and it truly
was an epiphany when I uh started writing this book.
You know that the dialogue, Um, it's it's I've had
so many people that have said, you know what, Steve,
that's kind of tough love. You know when you read
some of the content in there, But you just hit
the nail on the head. There's so many dads that
(22:39):
will fight, fight, fight the irony two it is. They
don't think anything else is going to change in their life.
You know, the happy hours and the network functions and
the breakfast meetings and all those things. Oh, it can't
be that difficult, Steve, it can't be that hard. I
couldn't tell you how many people tried to play the
Monday morning quarterback. Well, I wouldn't take that if I
were you, I wouldn't do this. I wouldn't do that.
(22:59):
And now they're kind of you know, coming to see
me or talking or calling with you know, kind of
their head tuck between their legs saying wow, wow. Because
it was a huge adjustment. If you think nothing is
going to change, you're so off base. It's it's it's unbelievable.
It is truly the biggest life change and experience, including
and I say this respectfully, the loss of my father.
(23:21):
The year that I divorced, my father died as well.
You know, when it was it's tough, you know, it's
it's a tough tough time because your kids. You know,
you're breaking up a family and then you're losing a
family member, and you know, it's just it's difficult. Absolutely absolutely,
And as we spoke about with Ariel before, if you
can get through this, you have a different kind of
(23:43):
strength and realization about yourself but also about parenting. But
I do I think a lot of dads don't necessarily
realize it, and a lot of dads somehow think once
they've got their custodial time, Mom's still gonna be there
to fill in if they do have that breakfast off game.
And I say, well, this is for work and I'm
the breadwinner and you have says, no, baby, we're not
(24:03):
married anymore. For you, that is so spot on. Obviously
you've you've been doing this for so many years, because
I've had guys that they'll call and vent and they'll say,
can you believe that I call it and just ask
her to do this or do that or do this,
And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, you fought
for a year to get what you've got, and now
(24:24):
you want to, you know, you want to kind of
go back on what you agreed to, you know, to do.
So it's it's looking back now. I mean, you know,
the X and I are fine with each other, we're
very civil, the kids are doing great. But I mean
it's been a decade as well, so you know, but
you have definitely paved the road. I think for other
dads who are now seeing this and going, oh, I
(24:44):
get it, or I read Steve's book and now I
get what he's saying. So I'm not going to be
that kind of jerky guy that calls on her. But
maybe I'll say, hey, do we do we know a
neighbor or is there a babysitter that maybe I can
call on and ask if I could get some help here,
so corton to kind of be a united front, so
not to shirk responsibility, but you you are in this together,
(25:05):
and we do need to figure out a way to
help each other out, and maybe sometimes you can and say, look,
I know this is not your obligation, but do you
think maybe you could take them on Tuesday because I've
got this thing and I'll make it up next week
with something else for you. That's how I am with
my two exes. They're super great. And I lost a
parent last year as well, which was devastating, and I
(25:26):
will say both of them, both of the fathers of
my two boys, were so there for me because and
this is what I really try on this show and
in my practice to get through to people. We're a family.
We don't live together anymore, we don't sleep together anymore,
but we are a family, and we have a common interest,
which is our children and making sure everybody is healthy
(25:48):
and sane, And especially now during this pandemic with so
many parents going, I don't want them at your house.
Your girlfriend's a skank, she's probably got the coronavirus. I
don't want them going over there, or they shouldn't be
a your house because now we're doing online schooling and
they need to be somewhere that's quiet and it's too
loud at your house. Or I can't afford to pay
you support anymore. We agreed to it, but I'm not
(26:09):
making anybody all of these things coming up. If you're
in it together and you can work through it, you
save yourself time and aggravation and fees. I mean, it's
it really makes so much sense, but it's much easier
said than done. I do get that, but civilities everything. Yes,
So what are the key principles for parenting covered in
now what? Well, we have a lot of aid and
(26:31):
I tried to you know, it's funny because a lot
of the principles in this they all hover around social media.
I think that you know a little bit of how
you know, when when we started this project a couple
of years ago, um, you know, I was telling the
guy that kind of helped me out here in Maibas
said we need to make this current. You know, we
want to short read because people's attention span is kind
(26:54):
of short today. Is if we're you know, not not
the war in peace books and things like that. So
a short book that they can pass long. It's a
hard bound um priorities. You know where your priorities lie.
You know, as a father, um is at the happy hour,
is it the close in the next sale, is it
the business networking meeting? Or is it making sure your
son or daughter is up having breakfast? You know, and
(27:17):
you know there's gonna be times that you have to
say no, you know, where do your priorities lie? And
the reality of it is, you know, as a father,
I had to ask myself, how do you want to
be remembered as the chronic workaholic? Or can you find
that medium that that balance and balance has you know,
what happens to be another one of the principles that
(27:37):
we use success. You know, the definition of success for
me has changed at fifty then it was at twenty
when I came out of college chasing the dollar, chasing
the dollar. And you know, for so many years I
was on the corporate side for twenty two years and
traveling in hotels and work, work, work, work, work, searching
for success. But then when I you know, it was
confronted with divorce, success was right in front of me,
(28:00):
my children, and I just didn't see it. I had
my blinders on. I was chasing the dollar. Just work, work, work, work, work,
and gone. And that's why that I had. I got
the rights to cats and the Cradle in the in
the front of the book, and I had to call
the label and get that because it is the epitome
of most men in corporate America. You know it's it's uh.
And then there is a structure making sure that back
(28:24):
to your initial point, you fought for them, you got them.
But if it's havoc all the time, is it really
of their best interest? And the answer is no. I
mean things are changing my life, change more then you
can even fathom. When I took this on to do
it the right way. I'm not the expert. I'm not
the marriage counselor the social work or the psychiatrist or
(28:44):
or any of the above. Um, it was trial and error.
I've got the PhD in hard knocks and a lot
of um just scratching my head and saying, oh my god,
I had no idea. UM bit my tongue a lot,
sucked up, my pride a lot. Avoid the venting on
the social media platforms you know that's uh. You know
when I read some of the things that people have
(29:05):
the god to put out there on these platforms, and
their kids and their kids, teachers and the counselors and
other parents and neighbors, they all see it, you know,
they all see it. And once it's out there, it's
not going to go away. And it's just it's something
you have to refrain from doing, and it's hard. It sucks,
you know. You you just have a conversation with your
(29:25):
ex and you're like, okay, I'll show her and just
really you know, bash out a couple of paragraphs. They're
just to get that social validation, you know, the likes,
the comments this that I'm you know, my prayers are
with you, or I wouldn't put up with that. It's
the same, you know, it's the same things, the same
comments that people you know want, they want that validation.
(29:47):
That's why I think it's so important to have a
sense of community, like we're talking about before, not necessarily
out in the ether with people that you don't know,
but a sense of community. When I probably fifteen years
ago now had a group of I mean, it just
happened that I had like five dads and they all
had kids that were I think preschool age, so they
(30:08):
were probably in their three, two threes four. So dad
spout for custody. We got them custody. California is very
kind of pro fifty fifty equal time if possible, and
so these guys all had their custody. But then they
were really having a hard time figuring out what to
do with their kids when they weren't in that four
hour day preschool program or whatever. And so I put
(30:31):
them all together. I just said, I asked them if
they were interested, put them on a group email. And
the interesting thing is that to this day, these got
their kids are now either in high school or college.
They still keep in touch. Now they actually are going
to happy alreadygether because they don't have to be with
the park. But they said one of the most beneficial
things not just having to go being able to go
(30:52):
to the park and not sit next to like a
nanny or a mom, but they actually were with a
dude so they could talk about the game the night
before while watching their kids, but that they were able
to commiserate, and they were able to commiserate in a
safe space where they said that bitch, can you believe
or whatever. But it didn't go to social media. It
never left the group. You know, they said, well, you know,
misery loves company. You think that's bad, look what she
(31:13):
did to me, and then they that it was out.
I mean, that is, that is that's the way to
do it. And it's you know, you know, I never
claimed to have the remedy to all these things, you know,
through the process, But you're exactly right. I mean, obviously
you're an attorney and you've you've been doing this for many,
many years. But to find another outlet that really does
not exploit the situation two millions of people out there, um,
(31:38):
you know, it's it's really you know, it's certainly going
to drive a wedge between you and your kids because
your kids can defensive event How do kids spell love?
That's one of the things that's touched on in the
book Time. That's a zig zigular quote. It's one of
my favorites, you know, and and we and it also
kind of trickles down to spending that time with kids,
because if you're not spending that time with those kids,
(31:59):
someone going to They're gonna gravitate to something or someone.
M Now, what are your rules or how what are
the tips you can give us and the listeners about
helping your kids. Your kids navigate social media well any
time that, especially with everything going on, it really works
to my favor, even as they've gotten older. You know,
(32:19):
I wish that. I don't wish for the pandemic, but
you know, when there's things like that that happened, you
can see the violence and you can see the the
anger and the hate that's out there. And we'll sit
down and watch the videos and and you know, and
I try to explain to them, look at this, you know,
look at this. There's so many people that are just
posting things. They need the attention. There's some narcissistic tendencies
(32:42):
there of people that just look at me, look at me,
look at me. And you know, the media is guilty
of it. People are guilty of it. They need these platforms.
They feed off these platforms. And I try to show
the positive, you know. I send both kids jokes and
I'll tag them on funny pictures of kids. It's and
you know, they're both dog lovers. We've always had dogs,
(33:03):
you know, And and try to show the positive. I
text them in the mornings and and say, hey, have
a great day and be kind, you know, tell someone something,
say something nice, hold a door for someone, and just
try to instill those But you have to stay consistent
because if you don't stay consistent, you're gonna send mixed signals.
One day you're piste off and you're yelling at him,
(33:23):
and the next day you're saying, have a great day,
be kind. Well, you know, so when you send those
mixed signals, it's it's very difficult, you know, for the
kids not to scratch their head and say, yeah, I'm dead,
but yesterday you were just being an ass. You know what,
how old is Carter? Now? Carter is seventeen, so he's
going into his senior Yeah that's virtual right now, but
(33:43):
he's yeah, this is it okay. And now my mom,
when my brother and our grap would put notes in
our lunchbox, which at a certain age I was like
please enough what the notes was still embarrassing. But when
I was a kid, you know, mid day you open
the lunch and there's a note from that. With my kids,
um and when they were really little, it's what helped
them learn to read. Let's bring ariel, Will you mute yourself?
(34:05):
And I think you can see her on your screen there, Steve. So,
this is Ariel and she and she's a she's a
divorce mom too. She's got a ten year old son. So,
Johnny and I talked a little bit at the top
of the show about some of the shocking statistics regarding
kids and literacy in the US. You guys are both authors,
you're both parents. What advice can you share with other
(34:26):
parents to encourage again their elementary school kids or Steve
in your case, their teens. How do you encourage them
to read more? And I don't just mean the Instagram
or the snapchat little caption book. Yeah, Ariel, Yeah, you know,
I um still read with my son, even though he's
turning eleven in a few months, and you know, it's
(34:46):
totally happy to read chapter books on his own. We
still choose books to read together in part because it
gives us opportunities to have conversations. It gives us, um
opportunities to talk over vocabulary words it. I know he's
learning in context that I'm like, oh, hey, you know
that's a big five syllable word. Do you know that one?
Let's talk about it. So, even though he's old enough
(35:08):
to read alone, we still um read a little together.
We'll see how long that lasts. Well, that's awesome. Yeah,
how about you, Steve as Carter reading, My teenager is
not reading very much at all, and there's not much
I can do about it. I can put the books there.
He's not interested in. My ten year old actually reads. Well,
you know, it's it's funny. Carter and I've had conversations
and I know he's something. Well I hope that he's
(35:29):
kids that he's you know, he talks about being a
YouTube sensation, but he just does that to pull my strength.
You know, I'll subscribe to the magazines, you know, ESPN
magazine and Rachel. When she was younger, my mom would
give her cookbooks and she would just flip through the
cookbooks and she started, you know, and and some of
her Christmas was new crock pod and all the you know,
the new air stuff and all the you know, the
(35:50):
the creg and things kind of that she that she needed. Um.
So I kind of took that back door approach with
not necessarily a lot of books. And then you know,
I gave her some of my Peter Montoya the brand
called You, and some books that I've had you know,
just talks about um, motivation and self worth and just
you know, self improvement and things like that. And she'll
(36:11):
read them for a while and you know, and then
she'll sit them down. But you know, I watch because
then I'll see it folded open on her bed, you know,
before she moved out, so I know she's back in
there again. And I'm like, Progress likes some magazines, he
likes reading articles online. He likes doing, you know, watch
sports blogs and and things like that. Um, I try
to keep him off that. So a lot of times,
(36:32):
to answer your question, I'll stop at a bookstore and
pick up something off clearance racks at Books a Million
or or somewhere and just grab a sports book on
the Lakers. Are the Bulls back in the nineties or
or something like that, And then nostalgia of it really
attracts him. He looks at and he's like, oh my gosh,
look how short they're short square back then. But but
(36:54):
you know what, it gets his it gets his interest,
and it keeps him off of the Instagram and the
Twitter in the Facebook. So to me, even though it's
baby steps, it's certainly progress, so you know, and it's
it's created really hopefully lifelong habits. Rachel was more of
a reader. Now she's out of the two. I always
said she's the uh, the very studious one, and I
(37:18):
you know, I laugh. But it's funny. Carter maybe the
one that's pumping the keg on campus with his hat
on back where it's telling the jokes. But the jury
is still at on that we'll see. Yeah, I think,
like so many things with parenting, it's also it's about modeling, right.
We can hand them books all we want, but until
they walk into the living room and we're sitting there
curled around our own book, and I do. And I'm
(37:39):
a reader, and I think you certainly have to read,
you know, lead by example. And I know that that
phrase has been around forever, but I'm a big reader. Um,
just tons and tons of business journals and business books
and motivation and all the Ziggler stuff years ago and
sales and and things like that. So, uh, you know,
I think you certainly to lead by example because their
(38:01):
rebuttal is we don't read. You don't do it? Do
your kids read your books? Ariel? And yeah, the ones
they wrote. I mean, I know your son's young, Ariel,
for example, but he must know that he's referenced in
your book, right, Yeah, and the new book is dedicated
to him, So um, he finds my books boring because
(38:23):
it's nonfiction, and he's very clear that he's a fiction guy,
so he's like, yeah, you know, I tell my friends
that my mom's a writer, but she writes boring books
because it's nonfiction. And I'm like, well that's okay. Um,
and my books also aren't super age appropriate for him
at this point. So um, I have actually in the
acknowledgements in the back, like, you know, eternal gratitude to
(38:45):
my son, who will read this book someday and be like,
oh god, mom. So I mean, he knows his mom's
a weirdo, so it's not like he's going to be shure.
But that's typical at this point. He finds my writing
boring because it's nonfiction. How about you? Yeah, Rachel's. Rachel's
read the book, and I think Carter kind of flipped
through it, you know, when when it released last year,
(39:06):
And uh, I'm not so sure that he would fess
up and say that he read it anyway. They are
just those two kids are so so different. She read it,
and I think she's passed it along. But it's interesting
because you know, I'll do some branding on social media
and Instagram, and I started seeing an influx of Western
Kentucky students before Rachel graduated that we're you know, coming
on board and you know, and and following some of
(39:28):
my stuff. And I'm thinking, so, you know, and you know,
and they're all she runs around a very good group
of kids that very academically sound. And I think Carter's
kind of flipped through it and looked at some of
the illustrations maybe and read the you know, the acknowledgements
and and that kind of thing. But but that's okay.
I mean, he's getting the age now where the last
year or so I've really experienced significant changes in him
(39:52):
in terms of maturity. So do either of you watch
any of the legal dramas The Good Fight or the
new Perry Mason or anything that's streaming now, like anybody
like legal shows. I'm totally sucked into love on the
spectrum right now, which is definitely not not a llegal anything.
But all right, Well, in any event, what's coming up
(40:16):
next is something you'll never see on one of those
shows anyway, but you'll hear them here. This is something
we do in the family law realm called discovery, and
it's we call them the interrogatory. So do each swear
to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth. Which relationship in your life has had the
most profound impact? Just relationship in general. Yeah, it could
(40:37):
be a teacher, kids, parents, It's kids. It's kids, because
I I know without question it's kids. And I've thought
about this because you know, reading through some of the things,
and you know, in the corporate world, as you know, um,
if you're willing to pay the price, and that price
is travel when they own you and you just work, work, work, work, work, relentless,
and you know you're living in airports and hotels. And
(40:59):
I did that, and without question I would have found
that success. You know, I was pushing for and stayed
on that path, and I did. By most people's standards,
I've been very blessed beyond and and all that is
great in theory, but without question, it's the biggest life
changing experience. Um, they've had the biggest impact, and they
they have shown me that there's so much more out there.
(41:21):
It really ruled me back into where I needed to be.
And every time I speak now, it always includes how
do you want to be remembered? I mean, what do
you want your legacy to be? And I know that
sounds kind of hokey and a lot of people use
that tagline and things, but it's it's so true with
with kids, Um, you know, do you want to be
known as, Oh my gosh, you know that guy worked
(41:43):
his ass off seven days a week. Or I've never
met a better father, a more committed father that made
the difference in these kids lives. And there's no there's
no comparison to me at this point in my life. Now,
it's funny. I'd say I got a plane to catch
the fifty. It's different. Ariel, what's your favorite love song? Oh?
(42:03):
You know, I'm gonna say, um, Rihanna's Sex with Me
is amazing. You know I bet you that that's Steve's too.
Just kidding, all right, So I think I know Steve's
answered this question. Ariel, what's the one piece of advice
you'd share with your twenty cemething year old self. You
(42:25):
know it's cliche, but uh, it really has proven to
be true that the journey is the destination. I think
as someone who is very ambitious and a business owner.
I've always been and Steve can probably relate to this.
I've always been very focused on my results in my
r o I and what's the outcome? Show me the
bottom line, and UM. As I've moved into midlife, I've realized, oh,
(42:48):
there's no there there, and actually the journey of how
you get where you're going is as important, if not
more important, than where you actually end up. So I agree, Steve.
Do you know what a rom com is? Romantic comedy?
What's your favorite romantic comedy? What could you watch over
(43:10):
and over again? I was trying to think of the
name of it earlier. It's um, I don't know, I
don't know. I had a song. I had a song
that was my favorite song. What's your song? What's your song?
This song is? This song is amazing to me, and
it's about Van Morrison. I'll be your lover too. Now
that goes back a little bit that that does. I'm
(43:31):
older than you, so I feel you. I I know
that Ben Morrison song. I also know the Rihanna song Ariel.
Which rom com could you watch on repeat? Oh? You know?
Does Book Smart count as a rom com? Yes? It's
sort of like a lady a lady romance, right that
that film captured like the joy of female friendship for
(43:54):
me in ways that I'd never seen captured on screen before,
which they were amazing. By the way, which relationship in
your life has had the most profound impact, you know,
I have to say my son, because even in the
moments that are extremely frustrating, I learned more about myself
in those frustrations because oh my god, she who smelt it,
(44:15):
dealt it. And my son is a little manager and
a little bossy boss, and I have these moments where
I just it's like looking into a fun house mirror,
and um, I'm very aware that I'm raising, you know, um,
the future of you know, I'm raising someone's future spouse.
(44:38):
I'm raising someone's future manager. And we spend a lot
of time talking about empathetic management technique. That's a great point,
that really is because you really are we're you know,
we're passing the we're passing the b time and it's
it's tougher and tougher each generation. I know it's all relative,
but I mean I would argue that for days in
(44:58):
terms of adversity, and you see the current affairs. And
you know, I think now more than ever you have
to continue to stay involved and and talk to them
and not being a state of denial and not say well,
this doesn't apply to us. It certainly does. It's it's
it's relevant every single day that you instill this and say, hey,
(45:20):
be kind, you'll be kind. This This is not how
the entire world is meant to be. It's not how
everyone is. Surround yourself around good people, successful people, see
how they got that way, and and model mimic, mimic
those things, those traits totally. Ariel Meadows, Stalling and Steve Adams,
(45:41):
thank you so much for joining us today, and all's fair,
we are honored to have had you. Ariel. Please tell
everyone where we can find you online and snap up
a copy of your books, including the latest from ship
Show to Afterglow. Yeah, I am at find your Afterglow
on both Instagram and Facebook, and then you can find
me on my website where I have a membership program
(46:02):
for the really good stuff over at find your Afterglow
dot com and the Offbeat Empire tell us about that.
So yeah, the Offbeat Mutter is the umbrella company for
all my publishing work. So that includes offbeat Bride dot com.
That includes offbeat Home dot com. And then this new
venture with find Your Afterglow dot com and Steve Adams
(46:22):
tell us where we can find you online and where
dad's and moms because I think mom's benefit to can
find your divorced Dad's Guide to Parenting Excellence. Now what sure?
Instagram is Steve Adams three. Twitter is at Steve Adams three.
Facebook is Steve Adams. The book is on Amazon. It's inaudible. Um,
(46:43):
a local guy, Barry Burnson had done a phenomenal job
on the audible version of it. And then the local
publisher is Carol Butler here in loysbll Butler Books dot com. Perfect.
Thank you both so much. This was great, great conversations. Um, folks, listeners,
get those books, check them out. UM, join our community,
be part of this. Thank you both very very much.
(47:06):
Aerial Meadow Stallings book From Ship Show to Afterglow Putting
Life Back Together after It Falls Apart. Steve Adams book
Now What a Divorced Dad's Guide to Parenting Excellence? Both
fantastic reads. Um, both part of our community, and I
don't know, I kind of thought it was so cool
to have somebody from Washington State and somebody from Kentucky
(47:28):
and we're here in California. We all can read, which
is good giving what we learned the story about literacy.
I'm Laura Wasser, I'm an attorney, and I'm the CEO
of the online divorce service It's over Easy. You know.
I'm into next chapters and I'd love to hear what
you think we should read next. You can drop me
messages on social It's over easy, and you're invited to
(47:50):
join my private Facebook group at its over easy community.
We are talking about relationships and the evolution of dissolution.
Leave us a review at I Tunes and share us
with your friends. That's our show. All's fair. Thank you
for listening. Now go read a fucking book. M
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