August 25, 2020 • 42 mins
For many of us, the 2020 - 2021 academic year resembles an episode of Netflix’ Black Mirror or The Twilight Zone. Our new normal includes masks, hybrid learning and online classes even for small children. For many parents, balancing all of this is unnerving to say the least. One thing that helps is to remember we are not in this alone. The pandemic is happening to all of us at the same time, and today we’re joined by educational experts to help us unpack exactly what co-parents need to know about the upcoming school year. First, we speak with Educational Psychologist Dr. Tere Linzey who shares tips for divorced co-parents to improve their school-aged kids’ visual processing speeds, and their ability to focus when they’re on and offline in different households. And then, Educational Consultant Jamie Bakal joins our conversation to provide an overview of the public and private school landscape in Los Angeles. She explains how to navigate both as classes begin in the Age of COVID-19.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi there, It's me Laura Wasser, the divorce attorney and
the founder of It's over Easy, the online divorce service.
I've been practicing family law for over twenty years and
I've worked on thousands of divorces, shepherding people through what
may be one of the most terrifying times in their lives.
(00:22):
Along the way, I often have to remind people to
lower their expectations when dealing with matters of the heart.
Rules simply don't apply. Because all's fair in love and war.
So welcome to the All's Fair Podcasts. Fasten your seatbelts
and let's go. Hi everyone, I'm Laura Wasser. My name
is Johnny Rains. Thank you for joining us today on
(00:44):
All's Fair. We know you have a lot of choices
when it comes to podcasts, and while we were sincerely
grateful you found us, we want you to be hooked,
so rest assured. Will continue serving up topics that are
fresh and on point. This show is about relationships, and
we've had some great interviews with people discussing how they
co parent, discussing how they broke up, how they got together,
(01:05):
how they deal with each other, and whether it's breakups, makeups, siblings, friendships, family,
and even people's relationship with their personal finances and politics.
All are things that Johnny and I cover every week
with our guests on All's Fair Top Review. Tell us
what you think and what you want to hear more
of the season, and we will deliver one of the
most challenging intents and rewarding relationships many of us are
(01:27):
having right now are with our own kids. Moms and dads.
You guys know what I'm talking about. The new normal
amid the coronavirus first met home school for a few weeks,
which turned into a few months, and now it's summer
and the new school years fast approaching. But academic year
may not resemble any year in recent memory, as school
(01:47):
districts across the country are working towards reopening. I'm on
the board of my kids school, and so we have
meetings and we discussed how this is gonna work. I'm
obviously reading up on it and even getting ready for
today's episode. I mean, it's just a complete, constant, moving target,
and I know it's so difficult for lawmakers, educators, administrators
just to figure out exactly what the best plan is
(02:08):
for protecting our kids, protecting our adults and our elderly
and our autoimmune deficient, and also making sure that kids
are getting the kind of academic stimulation that they need
to move forward. You know, a couple of months is
one thing, but if we're going to have a whole year,
that's going to be an issue absolutely well. In the
l A Times, they talk about this in a recent
(02:28):
article written by Sinali Khlei where she talks about the
plan in California reopen some of the schools and how
it's going to involve smaller class sizes. And this is
at the public schools. So one of the things that
I think super challenging right now for parents of kids
in public school is that many of them are having
to work and homeschool at the same time. So I'm
(02:50):
sure they're going to be looking forward to schools reopening,
right and again, our school systems, both public and private,
believe it or not, are already financially challenged. And what
we were kind of all I think assuming is, oh,
this break would have been good, we could have caught
our breath. Whatever it's not. It actually costs more to
(03:10):
employ new resources to keep things safe for people. So
that's another uphill battle. Especially here in California. We definitely
are in a deficit, and public schooling is if it's
only going to be more expensive, and and look, they're
doing everything they can. I am watching both the teachers
and the administrators and the people that are in you know, government,
trying to figure out the best way. Everybody is doing
(03:33):
the best they can, and yet this is just the unknown.
There's another article in the New York Times, how to
homeschool during coronavirus, And this was by Catherine Hell and
it was our article originally written when we first started
this in mid March, and then she updated it on
things that we as parents can be doing to help
our kids with homeschooling, you know, and again with different
(03:54):
age kids too. I have a high schooler and then
I have a fourth grader. High schooler is much better
on zone. He does need a little supervision just to
make sure that he's doing what we're supposed to be
doing and checking in with teachers and stuff like that.
But the fourth grade are getting on and off the
zoom calls, making sure that in the morning, we get up,
we do a little bit of physical activity, we have
something to eat. It's too easy just to fall into
(04:16):
the slump. I think that a lot of us, as adults,
have done where you stay in your padamas all day.
That's not always the best idea for kids if we're
trying to get them to actually engage in the remote classroom.
I like what Catherine Hill, the writer of the how
to Home School Drink coronavirus article from New York Times does.
At the end of her articles, she lists out some
(04:36):
potential schedules that are based on kids ages that can
work for parents in case schools when they reopen, you
know there could be a surge and we may shelter
back at home again. By the way, I thought it
was kind of interesting in that article she said most
school aged kids can work on something online for approximately
twenty minutes. And I was like me too, well, youking
(05:00):
of school aged kids. Um, Prince William and Duchess Kate
might not send Princess Charlotte back to school. Um. This
is in an article on MA in US magazine, And
I know what a royal fan you are. Um, so
I thought we'd had discussed this for a bit. Um.
The Duke thirty seven and Duchess of Cambridge thirty eight
are considering keeping Charlotte five at home even if Thomas's
(05:22):
school reopens. Basically, they want to keep their kids together,
and they've actually kind of gotten into home schooling since
they've been doing it since the coronavirus started. And there's
also the benefit of not having to be with all
of those commoners, whether royal or commoner. I continue to
believe that people in the public eye have the power
(05:42):
to impact the behavior of the masses. So time will tell,
and hopefully everyone who needs an education will be able
to get one in the best environment possible, be that
in a brick and mortar school, Buckingham palace or your
own space. What matters most is prioritizing our children and
their academic endeavors so that they can navig gate the
world as adults one day, possibly hopefully even better than
(06:04):
their parents. And to help me drive this point home
to you, I'm happy to introduce you to our first guest.
She's well known for her research into child psychology at
Harvard and at UC Berkeley. She's one of the foremost
educational psychologists in the country and the author of Measuring Up,
the go to guide for parents and students looking for
an edge in the hyper competitive world of education. She's
(06:25):
also the founder of Brain Matters, a program for schools,
parents and kids focused on improving auditory processing, executive functioning skills, attention, focus,
and memory and children. Take a listen to this. When
the brain is optimized and learning becomes easy, and when
it becomes easy, then it becomes more fun. And isn't
that what we want for our children to become happy
(06:48):
and successful? It sure is. Welcome to All's fair. Dr
Terry Lindsay, thank you so much. So tell us a
little bit about the five things that every parent can
do to help our children perform better at home. Okay, So, UM,
I think the first thing when parents have been calling me,
(07:10):
I've been telling them, you know, provide structure. Because kids
are used to structure, They're used to consistency in school,
They're used to schedule those kinds of things, and the
brain will perform better in that kind of situation. So
that structure is important. UM. Staying active, right, What UM
exercise does for the body is a drop in the
(07:32):
bucket in comparison to what it does for the brain.
So very important for them to stay active. And then
that leads into mental fitness. There's a lot of ways
to uh stay mentally fit. They can do it informally
or they can do it formally. Uh using electronics health
(07:53):
you know, in a healthy way is really important. I
think the research is very clear about that. Um. And
then um, you know, making it fun using some fun
educational games or board games, things like that. I think
those are really important. Um. I think it's really important
for kids to have fun. Why is it so important
(08:14):
that kids remain physical? Why is it so important? I mean,
I know I've read things about why physical education and
schools is important. But for us as home teachers these days,
tell our listeners why it's so important that our kids,
you know, bodies are stimulated in order for them to
then be able to learn better. Well, so, just who
(08:36):
decide that it's good for fitness, right, that the heart
and all those things. We've known that forever, but we
now know that it's great for the brain. Right. The
new research tells us that exercise is very important to
the brain. Cardio and weight training, those kinds of things.
And we've got so many anxious kids right now in
(08:59):
a time of uncertainty, that it's really good for their
social emotional too, so their mental health. That piece of it,
so you just can't go wrong by staying active. You're
helping your body, your mental health, your mental fitness, all
of those things are coming into play with exercise. What
are you feeling terry about the fact that this summer
(09:20):
we don't have many camps, We're not having summer school kids.
I've felt, you know, experienced what they call the summer slump. Anyway,
this year it may even be worse. What are you
telling parents who are calling you about the summer slump
in Well, obviously a lot of the parents that are
calling me are calling me about the virtual brain labs,
(09:43):
of the brain camps that we're having right to help
them bounce back, and so I'm you know, giving them
all the information about the camps and and how that
works for them. I'm also letting parents know that if
they don't want to go the brain lab are out,
that they can, you know, purchase brain cards. A lot
of NFL quarterbacks used to brain cards to categorize and
(10:05):
keep their mind quick in the summer, So I'm talking
to them about those. We're talking about the younger kids.
There are non negotiables. Reading is one of those non negotiables.
Anyway you can get them to do it right. And
another non negotiable would be doing some kind of math,
whether that's doing a cooking project with your kids or
(10:27):
you know, whatever that looks like informally, but doing those
kinds of things. And then for older kids, board games,
brain cards, any of those things. All of that's going
to be really important for kids. So that's what I'm
telling parents that if you want your child to bounce
back when school comes around, to make sure that you're
(10:47):
keeping that you're doing some kind of mental fitness at
least once or twice a week at least. I mean,
that's the that's this the bottom line. This may be
an obvious answer. And if I apologize in advance, but
does it matter if our kids are reading on an
electronic device? I like am totally. I mean, I don't know.
(11:08):
I can't even imagine what I did before there was
a Kindle. I'm a voracious reader, and I travel a
lot where I used to and I would always be
lugging all these books around. I have them all in
my Kindle. But I have kind of insisted that my
kids continue and they don't read as much as I do,
but that they continue reading paper books for now, doesn't
make any difference physiologically brain wise, whether they're looking at
(11:32):
an electronic device or not. Well, we don't have any
clear research out there about this yet, and in the
minute we do, I'm gonna grab it. But the thing
I see is that because kids are still caught in between,
they're still doing they're doing things online, but they're also
when they do get back in school, they're they're having
(11:54):
to read books. And so I think doing a combination
of the two is really a horton. As someone who
assesses students a lot, I see kids who spend too
much time online. I see a slower visual processing speed,
and so I always recommend to parents do a combination.
(12:16):
You know, do some on the screen, but but do
some with books too. So I like what you're doing
with your children. Okay, another question they U see school
districts just announced that they're no longer going to be
looking at the s A T a c T scores
for admissions until and perhaps and definitely is this good
(12:37):
for student applicants or bad? Or do you have a
feeling about this? Well, I think it's a step in
the right direction. I get a lot of kids that
go through the program to try to prepare themselves to
the pressure of the S A T s and the
A C T s, and I think testing has value. However,
when it's that heavily weighted, I think we're creating a
(12:57):
culture of perfectionists and anxiety written kids as opposed to
what we want, which is kids who enjoy life long
learning right. And so I think from that standpoint, it's
evening the playing field a little bit, and I think
it's just step in the right direction. Is it going
(13:17):
to be difficult for these college admissions. I mean there's
also going to be and depending on how long this
goes on, but I feel even for this last semester,
the really important bond that students have with their teachers
by being in class, having whether it's older kids having
office hours or meetings or conferences, or younger kids just
(13:38):
having a second with the teacher next to them kind
of guiding them, they're missing out on that piece of it.
So they don't have that piece of it. How are
teacher is going to be able to be giving college
recommendations when they really don't have that same kind of
connect with kids as they do when we're in person. Well,
the teachers I know are really reaching out and communicating
(14:00):
and doing everything possible to connect with their kids. And
I think you're right. I think that's a piece that
our kids are missing out on, and hopefully they won't
have to miss out on that too much longer. But
the educators that I know are really committed, and they're
really reaching out and they try to get to know
their students, and so as far as recommending, I feel
(14:24):
like that's not going to be the issue, but I
do think that's a big missing piece for the child themselves. Uh,
is not being able to have that one on one
with the teacher. I think that's really important, and one
on one or group learning with their peers. I mean,
I know my ten year old is having a very
hard time with that. Not being able to the socialization process.
(14:46):
I mean, it starts in preschool, in kindergarten, but it
really does move all the way through elementary and high
school and not being able to actually sit in class
have that competition. I mean, I've heard, you know, in
some schools these days, they're trying to put girls in
a different math class because young girls, I have read,
are intimidated by boys, and they do better when boys
(15:08):
aren't in the math class, which I have issues with
that because I think we should be learning how to
deal with different genders as we are in school. But again,
now we have nobody sitting next to us in class.
We're doing it all remotely, and I think that in
ends of itself, the socialization process makes it really difficult
for the lack thereof for kids to kind of take
(15:28):
their journey as almost as an important part of education
as academia. I think the peer situation is really important now.
Research tells us that there are more extroverts out there
than there are introverts. By myself and an introvert, so
my friends have told me that going through this time
that I've been preparing for my entire life, but with
(15:52):
students that are extroverted, that social piece is so important
to their mental health and to their educational cross So
it's difficult. And zoom zoom is great, but it just doesn't,
you know, it just it doesn't. It can't replace that. Obviously,
this Swan doctor will be a case by case, but we,
as you know, deal with a lot of to home families.
(16:17):
Have you seen that it is better for kids with
divorced parents or separated parents living in two homes to
do all of their academics in one place, or can
we recreate a study environment for them at both homes
and have them go back and forth. Is it important
that parents have the same kind of procedures and practices
(16:38):
in each of the homes, or can they actually get
by doing it differently. I know this is great in theory,
but if both parents could be on the same page,
that's ideal, right, if they can communicate and decide how
they're going to set those things up. If they can't
get on the same page, then might be better for
(17:01):
the homework and the the educational piece to take place
in one area in one home if they can't get
on the same page with that um At least that's
what I've seen with the people that I work with.
If the parents couldn't get on the same page, then
they kept the educational piece in one part of it,
(17:22):
and then other things, maybe the social piece or other
things in the other home. But when they were able
to get on the same page and replicate what the
other one was doing to a certain degree, that's really
beneficial for the child. We were talking a little bit
about trying to keep kids off of technology during the summertime,
(17:42):
and even you know, if we end up going back
to school in the fall and the coronavirus researches and
we end up having a shelter at home again, then
every kid is going to come back to their home.
So what are some of the side effects and what
I wanted to see if you could maybe double click
a little bit more into the reasons why parents should
monitor their kids on screens. Well, you know, like I said, anecdotally,
(18:08):
I see visual processing speed across the board. I do
testing in private schools and public schools, and I see
kids struggling with visual processing speed. I often ask parents
how much time are they spending on online? Now, I
want to make sure that I'm saying. I'm not not
saying to parents that they should keep their kids off of,
(18:30):
you know, technology during the summer. What I'm saying is
is to use it in a healthy way. Uh. For example,
I have some parents who are letting their son build
a website this summer, and I have some who are
you know, obviously they're doing some of their research online
or you know, those kinds of things. Or what I
(18:51):
suggest is they use it as a reward if they're
gonna play video games. You know, like if after they've
done something that's non negotiable, maybe they sat down and
they read a book for thirty minutes, then maybe they
get thirty minutes of screen time you know, to play
a or an hour whatever it is. But you know,
if we look at the people that are in Silicon
(19:12):
Valley that are in charge of the technology, you can
see them say that they keep their children off of
electronics that you know, they let them have just a
certain amount of time on that. And now that we
have schools that may go into the fall online I
think that's going to be even more important. And not
(19:34):
to even mention getting out there on the internet and
needing to monitor what our students are actually doing on online. Absolutely,
And when you say visual processing speed, just for um,
those of us who haven't masters or PhD s or
law degrees, what does that mean? Okay, so thank you
for for reminding me of that. So visual processing speed
(19:58):
is that ability to take can visual information quickly and
connected to what you already know. So reading would require
fast visual processing speed. Um, copying from the board, listening
to a lecture and trying to take notes. So visual
processing speed, I mean, what is it? Like eight seven
(20:20):
percent of everything we learn and something like that, it
comes in visually, So if your visual processing speed is slow,
you can't pick up social cues. Sometimes you can't read
body language things like that. So it kind of bleeds
into every part of our lives, right, And I do
(20:40):
think that we are, I mean, things are changing this
as an evolution. I'm not sure if it's for the better,
but I hope it is. But even looking at things
like you see his decision to not be considering s
A T N a c T, whether standardized tests return
in California or set something in motion for or other
universities across the country to do away with it. As well,
(21:04):
the admissions process will probably not get any easier, especially
for people that are on the other end of it
trying to figure out who is an appropriate candidate for admission.
This is all's fair with Laura Wasser. That's me and
as unbelievable as may sound to some, for many elementary
and secondary school aged children, it's almost as hard to
(21:26):
get into charter, private, and some public schools as it
is for older kids to get into college. But moms
and dads relax, joining our conversation. Next is the maven
of admissions for kids in those pre college age groups.
She's an educator with experience working for Los Angeles Unified
School District. She's also a graduate of the prestigious Oakwood
School and Boston University. She's one of the most sought
(21:48):
after educational consultants in southern California. Welcome to All's Fair,
my friend Jamie Bicall. Hi, Jamie, Hello, Hi, thank you
for having me. I know Jamie because we have some
mutual friends, and she actually helped me when we were
figuring out where my older son was going to go
to school, and then her kids ended up going to
(22:13):
the same school, which was also her alma mater. And
now we're on the board together, so I get to
see her and speak with her a lot about what's
going on right now, particularly whenever I think of something
on a morning run about like what we should be
doing at our school, I end up calling her and saying,
what about this, and she goes, no, here's why, that's
a terrible idea, or oh that is a good idea.
(22:34):
We already thought about it and talked about at the
last board meeting. You must have been asleep, Jamie tell
us a little bit about your back story, because I
know that you and I have discussed before, but I'd
love for our our listeners and Terry to hear about
kind of how you came to what you do and
why it certainly is near and dear to you what
Johnny and I do with all's fair and it's over easy. Absolutely.
(22:56):
I was a first grade teacher. I taught first grade
at Westwood Charter element free School, and I had a
lot of friends that were coming to me going through
the process of applying to kindergarten, and they all said,
you're an educator. You understand how kids learn, and you
grew up in the l a private school world. You
understand the landscape. Help us figure this out. And kind
of organically from there my company formed um in terms
(23:17):
of how it relates to you and Johnny and what
you guys do. I'm a child of divorce. I'm a
product of divorce, and it was not a pretty picture
when I was a child. Then I was the kid
that identified with the maybe a reconcilable differences and and
to to be able to help parents to be able
to navigate that having the perspective of their children and
(23:39):
being able to put their children first, just as a priority.
And it is doable, correct. I know you've worked with
many parents absolutely in two different homes, and and we
can get it together and apply to schools. These days
frown on parents who are divorced, Jamie, Does that even
matter anymore? If they're if they're getting along and they're
on the same page, it does not matter at all.
(23:59):
I think what does matter, though, is that they are
on the same page. Um, divorced single parents, that that's
irrelevant to the process. But parents that are able to
come together for the sake of their child, that does matter.
And in terms of again, I mean I I remember
when we were applying to kindergarten. I was pregnant with
(24:20):
my second son and he has a different dad. So
it's really funny because we would go on all these
interviews and we were very much on the same page,
and we were and remained very good friends. But so
many of the people interviewing us would look at him
and say, congratulations, you've got another one on the way.
I didn't say, not mine, but okay, thanks, I'll take
it um. And he did say to me at one point,
do you think this is bad? I mean, this was
(24:42):
in probably when Luke was starting kindergarten. I don't know,
it's probably like two thousand eight or nine, and we
still felt like there might have been a stigma there. Again,
almost everybody made us feel like that wasn't the case.
And of course we were not married ever, so we
weren't divorced and I wasn't married to the next guy.
So I mean, besides thinking I was maybe a little
(25:03):
bit slutty, I don't think anybody really held that against
us when we are applying to schools, and you certainly
did not have the most traditional situation. Um that said,
I think why it didn't hurt you is it wasn't contentious.
You and David really were able to say this is
about Luke, and we're making it all about Luke, and
(25:24):
that's all that mattered. And that was very evident to
the schools. So had it been a different situation where
it was more contentious, I think it would have been
an issue. What are you finding right now? I mean,
now people have gotten their letters of acceptance from the
southern California private schools and I think almost everybody's placed.
Do you have clients or are you hearing from the
school admissions offices that people are declining more than usual
(25:49):
as a result of what's going on. Either people are
saying I got the hang of this now I can
do it from home, or I don't know if they're
going to be back in classrooms in September, so I
don't know that I want to pay tuition or I'm
to go in a different dragon. Has this been a
bigger kind of switch up than you've seen in years past.
It is. It's been really different. I think there haven't
been a ton of people that have pulled out of
(26:10):
schools as of yet. There's been a few, and it's
mostly not just to say I'm not going to pay
for it, or unfortunately we've been hit by the economy,
but people are relocating and they're moving closer to family.
In these situations, UM, I have the same on the
flip side with people trying to get to l A
right now and want to get into private school for
the fault because they have family here and want to
(26:30):
be closer to family. Given everything going on with COVID,
I think the schools are overly concerned. They're very thoughtful
of the fact that the economy is being hit horribly
and they are concerned that there will be people pulling
out as tuition becomes dow in June and July, and
they are trying to over and roll a little bit
(26:53):
to kind of had that cushion. There's also been a
huge influx of families from public school that have been
really unhappy with the way their public school has handled
the remote learning and are trying to get their kids
into private school for the fall. Have we done better
in private schools? I don't know that many people whose
kids are in public schools that are really you know,
(27:13):
in the weeds on this. Has it been that different?
It's been really different. I normally would tell anyone that
asked me, you don't need to pay forty dollars a
year to give your kid a good education. That said,
in the current environment, there's never been a greater discrepancy
between public and private than they're currently is. UM. There
(27:34):
are public schools that have just stopped school and shut
down entirely because the remote learning was too challenging. UM
And obviously that can't happen in private school. UM. It's
it's been a big discrepancy and it's really unfair, and unfortunately,
I think it's only going to get worse. Our state budget.
We used to have a twenty four billion dollars surplus
in California and we now have a fifty four billion
(27:55):
dollar deficit, and that is going to trickle down very
quickly to the public school system. God, Um, I have
to ask. I know you don't do the college admissions probably,
thank God, but I know, but I do have to
ask about the recent scandal because it is such a
big deal. There was something recently in the news about
Lori Laughlin and Massamojia newly changing their plea. Um, not
(28:20):
so much about that, but from your perspective as somebody
who deals with admissions, how does something like this happen?
And did the people in your circle have a feeling
that something sketchy was going on? Not this sketchy? No, Um,
how did this happen? That happened by parents ego? I
(28:40):
have no idea what you're talking about. I've never seen
any of that, right Um, And frankly, as far as
I'm concerned, that's all this was about. This was about
parents who did not honor who their children were, and
they had egos that said, my child has to go
(29:01):
to this brand name school. Because it was about the parents,
not about the child. And I can't stress enough, and
it's what I do for a living on a case
through twelve level. If you had come to me and
said we wanted this school, and I met Missess Luca
didn't feel it was a good fit, I wouldn't have
let you go down that half and I would have
put you down the right path where it could be
(29:21):
most successful. And these parents put that aside for their
own egos. That is, to me the most shameful part
of all of this. One of the things that struck
me as strange throughout this as I was reading about
the amounts that were given and what was done. Haven't
people been doing this for years though, when they say
I'm going to build the Laura Wasser Library for you,
(29:43):
and so therefore I'd like my son to be able
to go to that library. So you know, congratulations Cal
or congratulations Harvard or whatever. This was just under I mean,
and they were giving those big amounts of money, but
but the photos were really the big difference. And what
was the or the lying on the s no that
this was this was the costco version of that Laura
(30:05):
Walster Library cost twenty plus million dollars and the good
news with that is it benefits everybody at the school.
This way cost what five hundred thousand dollars. It was
significantly cheaper for these families to cheat their way in
UM in a way that didn't benefit anyone um, not
their own children, not themselves, and certainly not anyone within
(30:25):
any singer kind of a little bit, well did it?
He's so interesting? Okay, So I guess the moral of
the story is if your kid should not be at
a certain school, you really need to spend more money
to buy a building. No, that's not the moral of
the story. Is you really need to think about where,
(30:46):
where what is appropriate for your child and your family.
And this certainly rings true, as you said, Jamie, for
kids that are kindergarten through twelve, as well as kids
going to college. Kids going to college, you would hope
that by the time there's seventy eighteen nineteen have a
little bit more of a sense of who they are.
The younger kids, we do as their parents have to
(31:06):
guide them a little bit and be able to understand
who they are and who they want to become. Right,
And it's it's hard at a kindergarten age with four
and five year olds. Those kids are really going to
do fine anywhere. So it really does come down to
what the parents want to provide for them, especially if
you have two separated parents with two different ideas that
(31:27):
can make it really true. How do you work with that?
I mean, how do you align yourself with the one
that seems to be more right? I mean that is
a difficult job for you as a placement assistant to
kind of negotiate how these I mean, you've got one
parent who says absolutely should be at you know, JT D,
which is kind of a little bit more straight lace,
a little more traditional, versus a wildwood or a center.
(31:51):
How do you figure that out as between the parents
when you really are working for both of them. I
really try to spend as much time with the child
in that situation as post the bole to see if
emotionally this child needs something more that they might get
out of one school versus another. Some schools are a
little more nurturing. Some schools have smaller class sizes and
smaller studented teacher ratio where they might get a little
(32:13):
more attention. So, you know, if this child does have
parents with a contentious divorce, they might need you know,
a relationship with the teacher that's a little bit tighter,
where they're going to get that there's something going on
at home. So I try to steer them towards that
versus necessarily where academically they're going to be the most successful.
If academically they'll be finance. Which is why it is
(32:34):
very important to how somebody like Jamie involved. If you're
kind of navigating these new roads, question do you stick
with them or if they call you up once their
kids there, if they need help maybe navigating a little
further on, Like I don't know, we're going to back
to school night and I don't necessarily want to sit
near him, or we've got a parent teacher conference and
(32:56):
historically I've never been able to get a word and
edgewise when she's sitting there, Jamie, could we do them separately?
I mean, do you does your relationship with the family
continue while the kids in school? Yes? I kind of say,
once a client, always a client. Um. I work with
families pretty much forever. So I have families that have
called me three years later, um and said one parent
(33:19):
wants to leave a school, but the other parent wants
to stay and the child wants to say, and can
I help them navigate that? Um, and I will help
families forever more, especially when it comes to advocating for
the child. Okay, so for both you and Terry, who
I think you heard earlier, what what it is that
she does and how we work with her. For parents
everywhere right now dealing with the uncertainty of what the
(33:42):
new school year is going to look like? What is
your number one piece of advice Terry? First, Um, I
would say that for parents too. I think the ability
to adapt to change right now is going to be
really important, and I think that parents need to model
that for their children and reassure them that this is temporary. Jamie,
(34:03):
I agree with the modeling appropriate behavior. I think that
parents need to be all in on their school's program
and they need to show that to their children, and
if they have frustrations, keep them from your children. Let
your children be all in on the school because they're
going to follow whatever. You totally agree. I've definitely seen
some of that with parents and their kids are right there,
and I think, look, you know, nothing is perfect, but
(34:26):
but as a kid, I think we have to kind
of be able to you know, that moment in your
life when you realize your parents not a superhero anymore.
At least for my kids, at least in elementary school.
I want them to believe that their parents, and their
teachers and their school itself are super heroic. And it's
hard if you're kind of trash talking at These are
(34:47):
uncertain times. We are all a little bit anxiety written.
But if we can give our kids kind of a
safe space to be and then maybe on the back
end deal with whatever are you know, disappointments are about
how the school is dealing with it, I think that's
probably a better way. I I definitely agree. You guys
both know that my day job is being a lawyer,
(35:08):
right And so just as you Dr Lindsay have your
scientific method, and you Jamie have your matching students with
schools and connections and networking and and and spiky sense
in terms of knowing where people should be all it. Um,
my sister attorneys and I have our own special tools
which we used to get down to it, one of
which are called interrogatories. And I promise these won't hurt.
(35:31):
But do you both swear to tell the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes? So Jamie,
which relationship in your life has had the most profound impact?
My husband? And how long have you and Matthew been together?
Twenty years? Oh? My god? And Jamie's young, She's younger
than me. Terry, how about you? Most profound impact? My grandmother?
(35:55):
She was an Oklahoma Teacher of the Year about five times.
And time really to learn to love to learn? That's amazing, Terry.
What's your favorite love song? I guess I was thinking
about this. Can you feel the lunk tonight with Elton John?
I guess? Nice? Damie so beleaguered songs? He question? Um,
(36:23):
my husband and I dance our love is here to
stay at our That's a good one, Jamie. What's the
one piece of advice you would share with your twenty
something your old self? Oh? Wow, only one? Yes? Uh,
you don't know everything. I think. I thought i'd do
everything when I was twenty two, Terry, how about you? Um?
(36:45):
I would If you're going to make a decision, there's
just one question to ask yourself. No matter what the
decision is, is this going to move me towards my
goals or away from my goals? Interesting? So I just
read over the weekend the book called Roddham, which is
a fictional book by Curtis Sittenfeld about Hillary Rodham, not Clinton,
(37:11):
because she's just Hillary Rodham. In the book, it's what
happens if Hillary doesn't marry Bill Clinton and how it goes,
And it's it's like that movie Sliding Doors, Like it's
just an entire track, and it's written as though it's
an autobiography. So it's written by and Hillary Clinton must
be freaking out right now because somebody has gotten into
her head written this book and she's gone down an
entirely different path, and boy, the truth is stranger than
(37:33):
fiction as how everything ended up. But and I don't
know if Hillary really said this or if this was
the author saying this, that every time she'd have a
decision to make, she'd ask herself to questions and one
of them, is it going? Is it going to move
me forward? But that's a very interesting way of thinking,
and it's just very much in sync with what I
was reading over the weekend. Highly recommend the book. By
(37:53):
the way, back to the show Jamie Ye, the cheesy question,
what romantic comedy could you watch on repeat? What romantic
comedy could I watch on repeat? Watch romantic comedies. I
just watch comedies, um, romantic comedies on repeat, Pretty Wars,
Terry Crazy, Stupid, Love Love Love that one. Thank you
(38:19):
guys both so much for sharing your wisdom and all
of these great tips with us today on All's Fair.
Tell us how people can find you online, Dr Lindsay
and more about Brain Matters. Please they can go on
the website brain Matters dot com. And we're on Instagram
and just submit on there and I'll get back with
them right away. And Jamie, I'm on the website of
(38:42):
Jamie Bicall Consulting dot com and I'm on Instagram at Jamie.
But call consulting and you do all of California, just
southern California. What what's your range? I do Southern California
predominantly Los Angeles K through twelve independent schools. Got it? Okay,
Thanks ladies. That was amazing, Thank you so much. Wait,
(39:02):
I have a question. We have a second and I
want to ask Jamie something Terry would be love to
hear from you too. But why is it that we
can't have the teachers go into the school I mean
maybe not today but in in September and have the
classrooms rigged so that if we can't have the kids there,
they can do remote learning from their own which again
it's not the perfect solution, but at least the teachers
(39:25):
aren't dealing with the barking dogs in the background and
the bad internet wherever they live and whatever else. They're there,
they've got their white boards, they've got their syllabus is
there's not a lot of other people around, so it
could do them and you know whatever, But is that
something that schools have been discussing. It is, but don't forget,
at least for the time being, where so many people
(39:46):
are without a nanny or without any households help or
support a they don't have that, so maybe their husband's
working or their single parent, and they have children at
home that they have to deal with and on top
of which they might be even if they're in anything coming,
maybe they don't have an you're kind of bordinanty and
so I think their own child care is a big
hindrance and all of that. But I think that there's
(40:07):
a great opportunity at all the schools to really create
a robust remote learning program right now, because I think
that no matter what, there's going to be remote learning
in the fall. Even if there's a hybrid, even if
schools reopen, there's gonna be families that won't send their
kids back to school because they're too scared to do that.
So at least in the independent schools, they are planning
for a hundred percent boat scenarios working at once. And
(40:29):
I have another question. I don't know if either of
you knows the answer. This is totally just me. We
can put it in the episode or not. But I
am curious, especially for kids that go to public school,
if there is going to be remote learning, do we
Californians have any kind of a plan to get children
computer connected? I mean, I would imagine one of the
biggest problems is the fact that kids don't have any
(40:49):
ability to have remote learning, especially in neighborhoods where either
their family has no computer, or their family has one
later no internet, no internet, and their parents is using
it because they need to be online to do their work,
or their parents are frontline workers, are back at work
and can't help they have a five year older six
year old and can't help them with their school work,
(41:10):
and those kids can't work independently. It's a real problem.
Um for a large majority of Los Angeles and the
whole world for families that can't afford the computers the
internet to help with their kids that are home on
remote learning. So again, thank you guys for joining us.
I think it's been wonderful. Definitely gives us stuff to
think about. And if you're not one of those people
(41:33):
who's on the front lines or doesn't have a computer,
or is in a situation where you've got either too
many kids to be able to help doing the remote
learning or not able to be there at all to
help them, thank your lucky stars and see if there's
anything you might be able to do to assist somebody
who is in a worse situation than you during this time.
(41:53):
Not you, guys, I'm talking to their Go do something
that was good? Right? Yes, that was great. I think
I learned something. Did you learn something that's good? You
do learn that You're glad you're not a parent? Yes,
I'm very happy being an uncle and a godfather. Yes. Well,
remember our request at the top of the show, leave
(42:15):
us a review at Apple Podcast, tell us what you
think today's show and what you'd like to hear from
us next. We know a few people in town, so
you never know let's chat next week. Thanks, bye,
Hi there, It's me Laura Wasser, the divorce attorney and
the founder of It's over Easy, the online divorce service.
I've been practicing family law for over twenty years and
I've worked on thousands of divorces, shepherding people through what
may be one of the most terrifying times in their lives.
(00:22):
Along the way, I often have to remind people to
lower their expectations when dealing with matters of the heart.
Rules simply don't apply. Because all's fair in love and war.
So welcome to the All's Fair Podcasts. Fasten your seatbelts
and let's go. Hi everyone, I'm Laura Wasser. My name
is Johnny Rains. Thank you for joining us today on
(00:44):
All's Fair. We know you have a lot of choices
when it comes to podcasts, and while we were sincerely
grateful you found us, we want you to be hooked,
so rest assured. Will continue serving up topics that are
fresh and on point. This show is about relationships, and
we've had some great interviews with people discussing how they
co parent, discussing how they broke up, how they got together,
(01:05):
how they deal with each other, and whether it's breakups, makeups, siblings, friendships, family,
and even people's relationship with their personal finances and politics.
All are things that Johnny and I cover every week
with our guests on All's Fair Top Review. Tell us
what you think and what you want to hear more
of the season, and we will deliver one of the
most challenging intents and rewarding relationships many of us are
(01:27):
having right now are with our own kids. Moms and dads.
You guys know what I'm talking about. The new normal
amid the coronavirus first met home school for a few weeks,
which turned into a few months, and now it's summer
and the new school years fast approaching. But academic year
may not resemble any year in recent memory, as school
(01:47):
districts across the country are working towards reopening. I'm on
the board of my kids school, and so we have
meetings and we discussed how this is gonna work. I'm
obviously reading up on it and even getting ready for
today's episode. I mean, it's just a complete, constant, moving target,
and I know it's so difficult for lawmakers, educators, administrators
just to figure out exactly what the best plan is
(02:08):
for protecting our kids, protecting our adults and our elderly
and our autoimmune deficient, and also making sure that kids
are getting the kind of academic stimulation that they need
to move forward. You know, a couple of months is
one thing, but if we're going to have a whole year,
that's going to be an issue absolutely well. In the
l A Times, they talk about this in a recent
(02:28):
article written by Sinali Khlei where she talks about the
plan in California reopen some of the schools and how
it's going to involve smaller class sizes. And this is
at the public schools. So one of the things that
I think super challenging right now for parents of kids
in public school is that many of them are having
to work and homeschool at the same time. So I'm
(02:50):
sure they're going to be looking forward to schools reopening,
right and again, our school systems, both public and private,
believe it or not, are already financially challenged. And what
we were kind of all I think assuming is, oh,
this break would have been good, we could have caught
our breath. Whatever it's not. It actually costs more to
(03:10):
employ new resources to keep things safe for people. So
that's another uphill battle. Especially here in California. We definitely
are in a deficit, and public schooling is if it's
only going to be more expensive, and and look, they're
doing everything they can. I am watching both the teachers
and the administrators and the people that are in you know, government,
trying to figure out the best way. Everybody is doing
(03:33):
the best they can, and yet this is just the unknown.
There's another article in the New York Times, how to
homeschool during coronavirus, And this was by Catherine Hell and
it was our article originally written when we first started
this in mid March, and then she updated it on
things that we as parents can be doing to help
our kids with homeschooling, you know, and again with different
(03:54):
age kids too. I have a high schooler and then
I have a fourth grader. High schooler is much better
on zone. He does need a little supervision just to
make sure that he's doing what we're supposed to be
doing and checking in with teachers and stuff like that.
But the fourth grade are getting on and off the
zoom calls, making sure that in the morning, we get up,
we do a little bit of physical activity, we have
something to eat. It's too easy just to fall into
(04:16):
the slump. I think that a lot of us, as adults,
have done where you stay in your padamas all day.
That's not always the best idea for kids if we're
trying to get them to actually engage in the remote classroom.
I like what Catherine Hill, the writer of the how
to Home School Drink coronavirus article from New York Times does.
At the end of her articles, she lists out some
(04:36):
potential schedules that are based on kids ages that can
work for parents in case schools when they reopen, you
know there could be a surge and we may shelter
back at home again. By the way, I thought it
was kind of interesting in that article she said most
school aged kids can work on something online for approximately
twenty minutes. And I was like me too, well, youking
(05:00):
of school aged kids. Um, Prince William and Duchess Kate
might not send Princess Charlotte back to school. Um. This
is in an article on MA in US magazine, And
I know what a royal fan you are. Um, so
I thought we'd had discussed this for a bit. Um.
The Duke thirty seven and Duchess of Cambridge thirty eight
are considering keeping Charlotte five at home even if Thomas's
(05:22):
school reopens. Basically, they want to keep their kids together,
and they've actually kind of gotten into home schooling since
they've been doing it since the coronavirus started. And there's
also the benefit of not having to be with all
of those commoners, whether royal or commoner. I continue to
believe that people in the public eye have the power
(05:42):
to impact the behavior of the masses. So time will tell,
and hopefully everyone who needs an education will be able
to get one in the best environment possible, be that
in a brick and mortar school, Buckingham palace or your
own space. What matters most is prioritizing our children and
their academic endeavors so that they can navig gate the
world as adults one day, possibly hopefully even better than
(06:04):
their parents. And to help me drive this point home
to you, I'm happy to introduce you to our first guest.
She's well known for her research into child psychology at
Harvard and at UC Berkeley. She's one of the foremost
educational psychologists in the country and the author of Measuring Up,
the go to guide for parents and students looking for
an edge in the hyper competitive world of education. She's
(06:25):
also the founder of Brain Matters, a program for schools,
parents and kids focused on improving auditory processing, executive functioning skills, attention, focus,
and memory and children. Take a listen to this. When
the brain is optimized and learning becomes easy, and when
it becomes easy, then it becomes more fun. And isn't
that what we want for our children to become happy
(06:48):
and successful? It sure is. Welcome to All's fair. Dr
Terry Lindsay, thank you so much. So tell us a
little bit about the five things that every parent can
do to help our children perform better at home. Okay, So, UM,
I think the first thing when parents have been calling me,
(07:10):
I've been telling them, you know, provide structure. Because kids
are used to structure, They're used to consistency in school,
They're used to schedule those kinds of things, and the
brain will perform better in that kind of situation. So
that structure is important. UM. Staying active, right, What UM
exercise does for the body is a drop in the
(07:32):
bucket in comparison to what it does for the brain.
So very important for them to stay active. And then
that leads into mental fitness. There's a lot of ways
to uh stay mentally fit. They can do it informally
or they can do it formally. Uh using electronics health
(07:53):
you know, in a healthy way is really important. I
think the research is very clear about that. Um. And
then um, you know, making it fun using some fun
educational games or board games, things like that. I think
those are really important. Um. I think it's really important
for kids to have fun. Why is it so important
(08:14):
that kids remain physical? Why is it so important? I mean,
I know I've read things about why physical education and
schools is important. But for us as home teachers these days,
tell our listeners why it's so important that our kids,
you know, bodies are stimulated in order for them to
then be able to learn better. Well, so, just who
(08:36):
decide that it's good for fitness, right, that the heart
and all those things. We've known that forever, but we
now know that it's great for the brain. Right. The
new research tells us that exercise is very important to
the brain. Cardio and weight training, those kinds of things.
And we've got so many anxious kids right now in
(08:59):
a time of uncertainty, that it's really good for their
social emotional too, so their mental health. That piece of it,
so you just can't go wrong by staying active. You're
helping your body, your mental health, your mental fitness, all
of those things are coming into play with exercise. What
are you feeling terry about the fact that this summer
(09:20):
we don't have many camps, We're not having summer school kids.
I've felt, you know, experienced what they call the summer slump. Anyway,
this year it may even be worse. What are you
telling parents who are calling you about the summer slump
in Well, obviously a lot of the parents that are
calling me are calling me about the virtual brain labs,
(09:43):
of the brain camps that we're having right to help
them bounce back, and so I'm you know, giving them
all the information about the camps and and how that
works for them. I'm also letting parents know that if
they don't want to go the brain lab are out,
that they can, you know, purchase brain cards. A lot
of NFL quarterbacks used to brain cards to categorize and
(10:05):
keep their mind quick in the summer, So I'm talking
to them about those. We're talking about the younger kids.
There are non negotiables. Reading is one of those non negotiables.
Anyway you can get them to do it right. And
another non negotiable would be doing some kind of math,
whether that's doing a cooking project with your kids or
(10:27):
you know, whatever that looks like informally, but doing those
kinds of things. And then for older kids, board games,
brain cards, any of those things. All of that's going
to be really important for kids. So that's what I'm
telling parents that if you want your child to bounce
back when school comes around, to make sure that you're
(10:47):
keeping that you're doing some kind of mental fitness at
least once or twice a week at least. I mean,
that's the that's this the bottom line. This may be
an obvious answer. And if I apologize in advance, but
does it matter if our kids are reading on an
electronic device? I like am totally. I mean, I don't know.
(11:08):
I can't even imagine what I did before there was
a Kindle. I'm a voracious reader, and I travel a
lot where I used to and I would always be
lugging all these books around. I have them all in
my Kindle. But I have kind of insisted that my
kids continue and they don't read as much as I do,
but that they continue reading paper books for now, doesn't
make any difference physiologically brain wise, whether they're looking at
(11:32):
an electronic device or not. Well, we don't have any
clear research out there about this yet, and in the
minute we do, I'm gonna grab it. But the thing
I see is that because kids are still caught in between,
they're still doing they're doing things online, but they're also
when they do get back in school, they're they're having
(11:54):
to read books. And so I think doing a combination
of the two is really a horton. As someone who
assesses students a lot, I see kids who spend too
much time online. I see a slower visual processing speed,
and so I always recommend to parents do a combination.
(12:16):
You know, do some on the screen, but but do
some with books too. So I like what you're doing
with your children. Okay, another question they U see school
districts just announced that they're no longer going to be
looking at the s A T a c T scores
for admissions until and perhaps and definitely is this good
(12:37):
for student applicants or bad? Or do you have a
feeling about this? Well, I think it's a step in
the right direction. I get a lot of kids that
go through the program to try to prepare themselves to
the pressure of the S A T s and the
A C T s, and I think testing has value. However,
when it's that heavily weighted, I think we're creating a
(12:57):
culture of perfectionists and anxiety written kids as opposed to
what we want, which is kids who enjoy life long
learning right. And so I think from that standpoint, it's
evening the playing field a little bit, and I think
it's just step in the right direction. Is it going
(13:17):
to be difficult for these college admissions. I mean there's
also going to be and depending on how long this
goes on, but I feel even for this last semester,
the really important bond that students have with their teachers
by being in class, having whether it's older kids having
office hours or meetings or conferences, or younger kids just
(13:38):
having a second with the teacher next to them kind
of guiding them, they're missing out on that piece of it.
So they don't have that piece of it. How are
teacher is going to be able to be giving college
recommendations when they really don't have that same kind of
connect with kids as they do when we're in person. Well,
the teachers I know are really reaching out and communicating
(14:00):
and doing everything possible to connect with their kids. And
I think you're right. I think that's a piece that
our kids are missing out on, and hopefully they won't
have to miss out on that too much longer. But
the educators that I know are really committed, and they're
really reaching out and they try to get to know
their students, and so as far as recommending, I feel
(14:24):
like that's not going to be the issue, but I
do think that's a big missing piece for the child themselves. Uh,
is not being able to have that one on one
with the teacher. I think that's really important, and one
on one or group learning with their peers. I mean,
I know my ten year old is having a very
hard time with that. Not being able to the socialization process.
(14:46):
I mean, it starts in preschool, in kindergarten, but it
really does move all the way through elementary and high
school and not being able to actually sit in class
have that competition. I mean, I've heard, you know, in
some schools these days, they're trying to put girls in
a different math class because young girls, I have read,
are intimidated by boys, and they do better when boys
(15:08):
aren't in the math class, which I have issues with
that because I think we should be learning how to
deal with different genders as we are in school. But again,
now we have nobody sitting next to us in class.
We're doing it all remotely, and I think that in
ends of itself, the socialization process makes it really difficult
for the lack thereof for kids to kind of take
(15:28):
their journey as almost as an important part of education
as academia. I think the peer situation is really important now.
Research tells us that there are more extroverts out there
than there are introverts. By myself and an introvert, so
my friends have told me that going through this time
that I've been preparing for my entire life, but with
(15:52):
students that are extroverted, that social piece is so important
to their mental health and to their educational cross So
it's difficult. And zoom zoom is great, but it just doesn't,
you know, it just it doesn't. It can't replace that. Obviously,
this Swan doctor will be a case by case, but we,
as you know, deal with a lot of to home families.
(16:17):
Have you seen that it is better for kids with
divorced parents or separated parents living in two homes to
do all of their academics in one place, or can
we recreate a study environment for them at both homes
and have them go back and forth. Is it important
that parents have the same kind of procedures and practices
(16:38):
in each of the homes, or can they actually get
by doing it differently. I know this is great in theory,
but if both parents could be on the same page,
that's ideal, right, if they can communicate and decide how
they're going to set those things up. If they can't
get on the same page, then might be better for
(17:01):
the homework and the the educational piece to take place
in one area in one home if they can't get
on the same page with that um At least that's
what I've seen with the people that I work with.
If the parents couldn't get on the same page, then
they kept the educational piece in one part of it,
(17:22):
and then other things, maybe the social piece or other
things in the other home. But when they were able
to get on the same page and replicate what the
other one was doing to a certain degree, that's really
beneficial for the child. We were talking a little bit
about trying to keep kids off of technology during the summertime,
(17:42):
and even you know, if we end up going back
to school in the fall and the coronavirus researches and
we end up having a shelter at home again, then
every kid is going to come back to their home.
So what are some of the side effects and what
I wanted to see if you could maybe double click
a little bit more into the reasons why parents should
monitor their kids on screens. Well, you know, like I said, anecdotally,
(18:08):
I see visual processing speed across the board. I do
testing in private schools and public schools, and I see
kids struggling with visual processing speed. I often ask parents
how much time are they spending on online? Now, I
want to make sure that I'm saying. I'm not not
saying to parents that they should keep their kids off of,
(18:30):
you know, technology during the summer. What I'm saying is
is to use it in a healthy way. Uh. For example,
I have some parents who are letting their son build
a website this summer, and I have some who are
you know, obviously they're doing some of their research online
or you know, those kinds of things. Or what I
(18:51):
suggest is they use it as a reward if they're
gonna play video games. You know, like if after they've
done something that's non negotiable, maybe they sat down and
they read a book for thirty minutes, then maybe they
get thirty minutes of screen time you know, to play
a or an hour whatever it is. But you know,
if we look at the people that are in Silicon
(19:12):
Valley that are in charge of the technology, you can
see them say that they keep their children off of
electronics that you know, they let them have just a
certain amount of time on that. And now that we
have schools that may go into the fall online I
think that's going to be even more important. And not
(19:34):
to even mention getting out there on the internet and
needing to monitor what our students are actually doing on online. Absolutely,
And when you say visual processing speed, just for um,
those of us who haven't masters or PhD s or
law degrees, what does that mean? Okay, so thank you
for for reminding me of that. So visual processing speed
(19:58):
is that ability to take can visual information quickly and
connected to what you already know. So reading would require
fast visual processing speed. Um, copying from the board, listening
to a lecture and trying to take notes. So visual
processing speed, I mean, what is it? Like eight seven
(20:20):
percent of everything we learn and something like that, it
comes in visually, So if your visual processing speed is slow,
you can't pick up social cues. Sometimes you can't read
body language things like that. So it kind of bleeds
into every part of our lives, right, And I do
(20:40):
think that we are, I mean, things are changing this
as an evolution. I'm not sure if it's for the better,
but I hope it is. But even looking at things
like you see his decision to not be considering s
A T N a c T, whether standardized tests return
in California or set something in motion for or other
universities across the country to do away with it. As well,
(21:04):
the admissions process will probably not get any easier, especially
for people that are on the other end of it
trying to figure out who is an appropriate candidate for admission.
This is all's fair with Laura Wasser. That's me and
as unbelievable as may sound to some, for many elementary
and secondary school aged children, it's almost as hard to
(21:26):
get into charter, private, and some public schools as it
is for older kids to get into college. But moms
and dads relax, joining our conversation. Next is the maven
of admissions for kids in those pre college age groups.
She's an educator with experience working for Los Angeles Unified
School District. She's also a graduate of the prestigious Oakwood
School and Boston University. She's one of the most sought
(21:48):
after educational consultants in southern California. Welcome to All's Fair,
my friend Jamie Bicall. Hi, Jamie, Hello, Hi, thank you
for having me. I know Jamie because we have some
mutual friends, and she actually helped me when we were
figuring out where my older son was going to go
to school, and then her kids ended up going to
(22:13):
the same school, which was also her alma mater. And
now we're on the board together, so I get to
see her and speak with her a lot about what's
going on right now, particularly whenever I think of something
on a morning run about like what we should be
doing at our school, I end up calling her and saying,
what about this, and she goes, no, here's why, that's
a terrible idea, or oh that is a good idea.
(22:34):
We already thought about it and talked about at the
last board meeting. You must have been asleep, Jamie tell
us a little bit about your back story, because I
know that you and I have discussed before, but I'd
love for our our listeners and Terry to hear about
kind of how you came to what you do and
why it certainly is near and dear to you what
Johnny and I do with all's fair and it's over easy. Absolutely.
(22:56):
I was a first grade teacher. I taught first grade
at Westwood Charter element free School, and I had a
lot of friends that were coming to me going through
the process of applying to kindergarten, and they all said,
you're an educator. You understand how kids learn, and you
grew up in the l a private school world. You
understand the landscape. Help us figure this out. And kind
of organically from there my company formed um in terms
(23:17):
of how it relates to you and Johnny and what
you guys do. I'm a child of divorce. I'm a
product of divorce, and it was not a pretty picture
when I was a child. Then I was the kid
that identified with the maybe a reconcilable differences and and
to to be able to help parents to be able
to navigate that having the perspective of their children and
(23:39):
being able to put their children first, just as a priority.
And it is doable, correct. I know you've worked with
many parents absolutely in two different homes, and and we
can get it together and apply to schools. These days
frown on parents who are divorced, Jamie, Does that even
matter anymore? If they're if they're getting along and they're
on the same page, it does not matter at all.
(23:59):
I think what does matter, though, is that they are
on the same page. Um, divorced single parents, that that's
irrelevant to the process. But parents that are able to
come together for the sake of their child, that does matter.
And in terms of again, I mean I I remember
when we were applying to kindergarten. I was pregnant with
(24:20):
my second son and he has a different dad. So
it's really funny because we would go on all these
interviews and we were very much on the same page,
and we were and remained very good friends. But so
many of the people interviewing us would look at him
and say, congratulations, you've got another one on the way.
I didn't say, not mine, but okay, thanks, I'll take
it um. And he did say to me at one point,
do you think this is bad? I mean, this was
(24:42):
in probably when Luke was starting kindergarten. I don't know,
it's probably like two thousand eight or nine, and we
still felt like there might have been a stigma there. Again,
almost everybody made us feel like that wasn't the case.
And of course we were not married ever, so we
weren't divorced and I wasn't married to the next guy.
So I mean, besides thinking I was maybe a little
(25:03):
bit slutty, I don't think anybody really held that against
us when we are applying to schools, and you certainly
did not have the most traditional situation. Um that said,
I think why it didn't hurt you is it wasn't contentious.
You and David really were able to say this is
about Luke, and we're making it all about Luke, and
(25:24):
that's all that mattered. And that was very evident to
the schools. So had it been a different situation where
it was more contentious, I think it would have been
an issue. What are you finding right now? I mean,
now people have gotten their letters of acceptance from the
southern California private schools and I think almost everybody's placed.
Do you have clients or are you hearing from the
school admissions offices that people are declining more than usual
(25:49):
as a result of what's going on. Either people are
saying I got the hang of this now I can
do it from home, or I don't know if they're
going to be back in classrooms in September, so I
don't know that I want to pay tuition or I'm
to go in a different dragon. Has this been a
bigger kind of switch up than you've seen in years past.
It is. It's been really different. I think there haven't
been a ton of people that have pulled out of
(26:10):
schools as of yet. There's been a few, and it's
mostly not just to say I'm not going to pay
for it, or unfortunately we've been hit by the economy,
but people are relocating and they're moving closer to family.
In these situations, UM, I have the same on the
flip side with people trying to get to l A
right now and want to get into private school for
the fault because they have family here and want to
(26:30):
be closer to family. Given everything going on with COVID,
I think the schools are overly concerned. They're very thoughtful
of the fact that the economy is being hit horribly
and they are concerned that there will be people pulling
out as tuition becomes dow in June and July, and
they are trying to over and roll a little bit
(26:53):
to kind of had that cushion. There's also been a
huge influx of families from public school that have been
really unhappy with the way their public school has handled
the remote learning and are trying to get their kids
into private school for the fall. Have we done better
in private schools? I don't know that many people whose
kids are in public schools that are really you know,
(27:13):
in the weeds on this. Has it been that different?
It's been really different. I normally would tell anyone that
asked me, you don't need to pay forty dollars a
year to give your kid a good education. That said,
in the current environment, there's never been a greater discrepancy
between public and private than they're currently is. UM. There
(27:34):
are public schools that have just stopped school and shut
down entirely because the remote learning was too challenging. UM
And obviously that can't happen in private school. UM. It's
it's been a big discrepancy and it's really unfair, and unfortunately,
I think it's only going to get worse. Our state budget.
We used to have a twenty four billion dollars surplus
in California and we now have a fifty four billion
(27:55):
dollar deficit, and that is going to trickle down very
quickly to the public school system. God, Um, I have
to ask. I know you don't do the college admissions probably,
thank God, but I know, but I do have to
ask about the recent scandal because it is such a
big deal. There was something recently in the news about
Lori Laughlin and Massamojia newly changing their plea. Um, not
(28:20):
so much about that, but from your perspective as somebody
who deals with admissions, how does something like this happen?
And did the people in your circle have a feeling
that something sketchy was going on? Not this sketchy? No, Um,
how did this happen? That happened by parents ego? I
(28:40):
have no idea what you're talking about. I've never seen
any of that, right Um, And frankly, as far as
I'm concerned, that's all this was about. This was about
parents who did not honor who their children were, and
they had egos that said, my child has to go
(29:01):
to this brand name school. Because it was about the parents,
not about the child. And I can't stress enough, and
it's what I do for a living on a case
through twelve level. If you had come to me and
said we wanted this school, and I met Missess Luca
didn't feel it was a good fit, I wouldn't have
let you go down that half and I would have
put you down the right path where it could be
(29:21):
most successful. And these parents put that aside for their
own egos. That is, to me the most shameful part
of all of this. One of the things that struck
me as strange throughout this as I was reading about
the amounts that were given and what was done. Haven't
people been doing this for years though, when they say
I'm going to build the Laura Wasser Library for you,
(29:43):
and so therefore I'd like my son to be able
to go to that library. So you know, congratulations Cal
or congratulations Harvard or whatever. This was just under I mean,
and they were giving those big amounts of money, but
but the photos were really the big difference. And what
was the or the lying on the s no that
this was this was the costco version of that Laura
(30:05):
Walster Library cost twenty plus million dollars and the good
news with that is it benefits everybody at the school.
This way cost what five hundred thousand dollars. It was
significantly cheaper for these families to cheat their way in
UM in a way that didn't benefit anyone um, not
their own children, not themselves, and certainly not anyone within
(30:25):
any singer kind of a little bit, well did it?
He's so interesting? Okay, So I guess the moral of
the story is if your kid should not be at
a certain school, you really need to spend more money
to buy a building. No, that's not the moral of
the story. Is you really need to think about where,
(30:46):
where what is appropriate for your child and your family.
And this certainly rings true, as you said, Jamie, for
kids that are kindergarten through twelve, as well as kids
going to college. Kids going to college, you would hope
that by the time there's seventy eighteen nineteen have a
little bit more of a sense of who they are.
The younger kids, we do as their parents have to
(31:06):
guide them a little bit and be able to understand
who they are and who they want to become. Right,
And it's it's hard at a kindergarten age with four
and five year olds. Those kids are really going to
do fine anywhere. So it really does come down to
what the parents want to provide for them, especially if
you have two separated parents with two different ideas that
(31:27):
can make it really true. How do you work with that?
I mean, how do you align yourself with the one
that seems to be more right? I mean that is
a difficult job for you as a placement assistant to
kind of negotiate how these I mean, you've got one
parent who says absolutely should be at you know, JT D,
which is kind of a little bit more straight lace,
a little more traditional, versus a wildwood or a center.
(31:51):
How do you figure that out as between the parents
when you really are working for both of them. I
really try to spend as much time with the child
in that situation as post the bole to see if
emotionally this child needs something more that they might get
out of one school versus another. Some schools are a
little more nurturing. Some schools have smaller class sizes and
smaller studented teacher ratio where they might get a little
(32:13):
more attention. So, you know, if this child does have
parents with a contentious divorce, they might need you know,
a relationship with the teacher that's a little bit tighter,
where they're going to get that there's something going on
at home. So I try to steer them towards that
versus necessarily where academically they're going to be the most successful.
If academically they'll be finance. Which is why it is
(32:34):
very important to how somebody like Jamie involved. If you're
kind of navigating these new roads, question do you stick
with them or if they call you up once their
kids there, if they need help maybe navigating a little
further on, Like I don't know, we're going to back
to school night and I don't necessarily want to sit
near him, or we've got a parent teacher conference and
(32:56):
historically I've never been able to get a word and
edgewise when she's sitting there, Jamie, could we do them separately?
I mean, do you does your relationship with the family
continue while the kids in school? Yes? I kind of say,
once a client, always a client. Um. I work with
families pretty much forever. So I have families that have
called me three years later, um and said one parent
(33:19):
wants to leave a school, but the other parent wants
to stay and the child wants to say, and can
I help them navigate that? Um, and I will help
families forever more, especially when it comes to advocating for
the child. Okay, so for both you and Terry, who
I think you heard earlier, what what it is that
she does and how we work with her. For parents
everywhere right now dealing with the uncertainty of what the
(33:42):
new school year is going to look like? What is
your number one piece of advice Terry? First, Um, I
would say that for parents too. I think the ability
to adapt to change right now is going to be
really important, and I think that parents need to model
that for their children and reassure them that this is temporary. Jamie,
(34:03):
I agree with the modeling appropriate behavior. I think that
parents need to be all in on their school's program
and they need to show that to their children, and
if they have frustrations, keep them from your children. Let
your children be all in on the school because they're
going to follow whatever. You totally agree. I've definitely seen
some of that with parents and their kids are right there,
and I think, look, you know, nothing is perfect, but
(34:26):
but as a kid, I think we have to kind
of be able to you know, that moment in your
life when you realize your parents not a superhero anymore.
At least for my kids, at least in elementary school.
I want them to believe that their parents, and their
teachers and their school itself are super heroic. And it's
hard if you're kind of trash talking at These are
(34:47):
uncertain times. We are all a little bit anxiety written.
But if we can give our kids kind of a
safe space to be and then maybe on the back
end deal with whatever are you know, disappointments are about
how the school is dealing with it, I think that's
probably a better way. I I definitely agree. You guys
both know that my day job is being a lawyer,
(35:08):
right And so just as you Dr Lindsay have your
scientific method, and you Jamie have your matching students with
schools and connections and networking and and and spiky sense
in terms of knowing where people should be all it. Um,
my sister attorneys and I have our own special tools
which we used to get down to it, one of
which are called interrogatories. And I promise these won't hurt.
(35:31):
But do you both swear to tell the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes? So Jamie,
which relationship in your life has had the most profound impact?
My husband? And how long have you and Matthew been together?
Twenty years? Oh? My god? And Jamie's young, She's younger
than me. Terry, how about you? Most profound impact? My grandmother?
(35:55):
She was an Oklahoma Teacher of the Year about five times.
And time really to learn to love to learn? That's amazing, Terry.
What's your favorite love song? I guess I was thinking
about this. Can you feel the lunk tonight with Elton John?
I guess? Nice? Damie so beleaguered songs? He question? Um,
(36:23):
my husband and I dance our love is here to
stay at our That's a good one, Jamie. What's the
one piece of advice you would share with your twenty
something your old self? Oh? Wow, only one? Yes? Uh,
you don't know everything. I think. I thought i'd do
everything when I was twenty two, Terry, how about you? Um?
(36:45):
I would If you're going to make a decision, there's
just one question to ask yourself. No matter what the
decision is, is this going to move me towards my
goals or away from my goals? Interesting? So I just
read over the weekend the book called Roddham, which is
a fictional book by Curtis Sittenfeld about Hillary Rodham, not Clinton,
(37:11):
because she's just Hillary Rodham. In the book, it's what
happens if Hillary doesn't marry Bill Clinton and how it goes,
And it's it's like that movie Sliding Doors, Like it's
just an entire track, and it's written as though it's
an autobiography. So it's written by and Hillary Clinton must
be freaking out right now because somebody has gotten into
her head written this book and she's gone down an
entirely different path, and boy, the truth is stranger than
(37:33):
fiction as how everything ended up. But and I don't
know if Hillary really said this or if this was
the author saying this, that every time she'd have a
decision to make, she'd ask herself to questions and one
of them, is it going? Is it going to move
me forward? But that's a very interesting way of thinking,
and it's just very much in sync with what I
was reading over the weekend. Highly recommend the book. By
(37:53):
the way, back to the show Jamie Ye, the cheesy question,
what romantic comedy could you watch on repeat? What romantic
comedy could I watch on repeat? Watch romantic comedies. I
just watch comedies, um, romantic comedies on repeat, Pretty Wars,
Terry Crazy, Stupid, Love Love Love that one. Thank you
(38:19):
guys both so much for sharing your wisdom and all
of these great tips with us today on All's Fair.
Tell us how people can find you online, Dr Lindsay
and more about Brain Matters. Please they can go on
the website brain Matters dot com. And we're on Instagram
and just submit on there and I'll get back with
them right away. And Jamie, I'm on the website of
(38:42):
Jamie Bicall Consulting dot com and I'm on Instagram at Jamie.
But call consulting and you do all of California, just
southern California. What what's your range? I do Southern California
predominantly Los Angeles K through twelve independent schools. Got it? Okay,
Thanks ladies. That was amazing, Thank you so much. Wait,
(39:02):
I have a question. We have a second and I
want to ask Jamie something Terry would be love to
hear from you too. But why is it that we
can't have the teachers go into the school I mean
maybe not today but in in September and have the
classrooms rigged so that if we can't have the kids there,
they can do remote learning from their own which again
it's not the perfect solution, but at least the teachers
(39:25):
aren't dealing with the barking dogs in the background and
the bad internet wherever they live and whatever else. They're there,
they've got their white boards, they've got their syllabus is
there's not a lot of other people around, so it
could do them and you know whatever, But is that
something that schools have been discussing. It is, but don't forget,
at least for the time being, where so many people
(39:46):
are without a nanny or without any households help or
support a they don't have that, so maybe their husband's
working or their single parent, and they have children at
home that they have to deal with and on top
of which they might be even if they're in anything coming,
maybe they don't have an you're kind of bordinanty and
so I think their own child care is a big
hindrance and all of that. But I think that there's
(40:07):
a great opportunity at all the schools to really create
a robust remote learning program right now, because I think
that no matter what, there's going to be remote learning
in the fall. Even if there's a hybrid, even if
schools reopen, there's gonna be families that won't send their
kids back to school because they're too scared to do that.
So at least in the independent schools, they are planning
for a hundred percent boat scenarios working at once. And
(40:29):
I have another question. I don't know if either of
you knows the answer. This is totally just me. We
can put it in the episode or not. But I
am curious, especially for kids that go to public school,
if there is going to be remote learning, do we
Californians have any kind of a plan to get children
computer connected? I mean, I would imagine one of the
biggest problems is the fact that kids don't have any
(40:49):
ability to have remote learning, especially in neighborhoods where either
their family has no computer, or their family has one
later no internet, no internet, and their parents is using
it because they need to be online to do their work,
or their parents are frontline workers, are back at work
and can't help they have a five year older six
year old and can't help them with their school work,
(41:10):
and those kids can't work independently. It's a real problem.
Um for a large majority of Los Angeles and the
whole world for families that can't afford the computers the
internet to help with their kids that are home on
remote learning. So again, thank you guys for joining us.
I think it's been wonderful. Definitely gives us stuff to
think about. And if you're not one of those people
(41:33):
who's on the front lines or doesn't have a computer,
or is in a situation where you've got either too
many kids to be able to help doing the remote
learning or not able to be there at all to
help them, thank your lucky stars and see if there's
anything you might be able to do to assist somebody
who is in a worse situation than you during this time.
(41:53):
Not you, guys, I'm talking to their Go do something
that was good? Right? Yes, that was great. I think
I learned something. Did you learn something that's good? You
do learn that You're glad you're not a parent? Yes,
I'm very happy being an uncle and a godfather. Yes. Well,
remember our request at the top of the show, leave
(42:15):
us a review at Apple Podcast, tell us what you
think today's show and what you'd like to hear from
us next. We know a few people in town, so
you never know let's chat next week. Thanks, bye,
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