August 29, 2025 • 30 mins
This week, host Rick speaks with senior wildlife care specialist Nora Willis about an iconic bird with a gigantic wingspan! In the 1980s, just over 20 California condors were left in the world, but through groundbreaking conservation efforts, there are now more than 500. Find out more about San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance’s successful breeding program, how young California condors learn to thrive in Southwest habitats, and the meaning of “puppet rearing.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Ruby.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hi, I'm Rick Schwartz, and unfortunately there's no Marco when today,
but this is still Amazing Wildlife where we explore unique
stories of wildlife from around the world and uncovered fascinating
animal facts. This podcast is in partnership with iHeartRadio's Ruby
Studio and San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance, in international nonprofit
conservation organization which oversees the San Diego Zoo and of
course this amazing place, the San Diego Zoo Safari Park.
(00:33):
And before we get too far into don't worry, Marco
will be back next episode. He's on vacation right now.
But as I say, the show must go on. So
as you may remember our listeners or viewers, if you're
watching last week or last episode, we covered the thick
billed parrots and Marko was very excited, of course, because
it's all about birds. That's his thing, and he's even
more excited that this episode is about birds two so
I kind of feel bad that he's not here, but
(00:54):
also I get to get a word in now because
he's not here talking about birds. So with that said,
we're covering California condors this time. It is an amazing
story of success in conservation, but also similar to we've
talked about before with our pandas the need for the
conservation to continue. And I could sit here and talk
all about it, but as always, we have a specialist
with us. Nora, go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience.
(01:16):
Let them know who you are, what your title is,
and what you do. Sure.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
So, my name is Nora Willis.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I'm a senior wildlife care specialist here at the San
Diego Zusafari Park. I work in the bird department and
right now I am the primary wildlife care specialist for
the condoor breeding area.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Wow. So you know you kind of old a little thing
or two about California condorevers few things. The cool thing
is I have a core memory of the National Geographic
that came out in the eighties. Yes, I'm that old
that when the program first got started, and that Geo
covered a big thing. Back then. It was only a magazine,
but it was a very awesome, reputable magazine and the
stories are so in depth. And I remember that cover photo,
(01:51):
the profile of the condo. It was just so impactful
to see that bird, Especially where I grew up in
the Northwest, we didn't have that kind of wildlife that
looked like that. And again without social media back then,
we didn't really have a strong idea of what these
birds were about. So I would love to pick your
brain today about the program, a little bit of history
on it, how it's evolved over time, and then end
(02:11):
up maybe with where we are today, if that's all right.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Yeah, absolutely, So.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
To start off with in the eighties, what happened.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
So back in the.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Early eighties, there were only twenty two condors left in
the entire world, so we were down to dangerously low populations.
So the decision was made to bring those remaining twenty
two into manage care to start a breeding program. Okay,
once all of them were brought in, it took them
a little while to get everybody think it took them
about five years to get everyone in the managed care
breeding program.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
It got started.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
We were one of the partners to help start it
along with the Los Angeles sou And since then, it's
been a while since the start of the program, but
we are now looking at a total of around five
hundred and sixty individuals, both in the wild and in
the managed care breeding program.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
And similar to our story we covered with Pandas where
we talked about it took forty years pan is to
come off the endangered species list and doesn't mean that
we're done doing conservation form, just means it's working for sure.
The idea that there were twenty two individuals twenty two
California condors left alive on the planet. Now fast forward
forty years ish and now we're over five hundred of
(03:17):
that number of five hundred, how many are back in
the wild.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
It's more than half, so at all, over three hundred
flying in the wild right now.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
That's awesome, Yes, and I think it's important to bring
up too, especially for a younger audience who may not
understand what was going on back in the eighties. Why
were there only twenty two left? What were the challenges
they were facing versus what are we doing now to
mitigate those challenges? So those three hundred that are out
there or almost three hundred can have the success of
staying out there and making their own young.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Absolutely, the biggest thing is human impact, right you know,
they're very susceptible to lead poisoning from lead ammunition used.
Hunters will leave things behind from whatever they shoot, and
then condors will clean it. Up for them, and unfortunately
things will be contaminated.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
With lead if they use lead ammunition with that too.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I think it's important for people to understand that. You know, humans,
if we were to consume something that's toxic, it might
make us a little sick, but our body can process
it out usually, but that's not the case with birds.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Correct Yeah, birds is a little different.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
You know, they're a little more sensitive to toxins like
that and condors. They can handle a lot of different
things since they are scavengers they eat only dead things,
so they can handle a lot of disease, bacteria, toxins
in their system because they have such an acidic stomach.
But unfortunately, lead is one of those things that's really
really dangerous and can build up in their system and
(04:32):
cause a lot of problems.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, that's the key, if I remember correctly, and same
with the bald eagles had the ddt issue. In osprey
and other birds, it was because their body couldn't process
it and eliminate it out, so it would build up
and eventually become to the point where it is the
first couple of times it's not going to be something
that would kill them, but eventually it gets to the
point where they expire early essentially, because that build up.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, it'll let over time, it'll build up. It'll cause
kidney problems, it could cause neurological problems, and a lot
of times, unfortunately, by the time we noticed something's wrong,
it can be too late, right, right. So the big
thing that the biologists do out in the wild is
they monitor the populations very closely, and every once in
a while they'll do a big trapping event and they'll
catch up the birds and they'll get blood samples from
(05:14):
them to test their levels of lead in their blood
to see if they're doing okay and if they need
treatment right right.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
And I do want to bring up too, because I
think way back in the day, it was this whole
idea like, oh, you know, don't try and tell hunters
what to do, it's you know, whatever. But I also
remember too, there was a big movement within the hunting
community where they voluntarily said we will no longer use
lead ammunition because most hunters appreciate wildlife, they appreciate being
out in nature, and they don't want to inadvertently damage wildlife.
(05:42):
And yes, they're hunting, but the bigger picture and a
lot of them chose to make those changes and it
has made a difference absolutely. And there was also if
I remember correctly, because I remember seeing images of the
power cables being an issue as well because of their wingspan.
Can you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Yeah, so caundurs are so big. You know, a bird
lands on a power line or anything like that. They're
so small that it doesn't really impact them that much
because they're.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Not more than one wire.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
But with condor, since they're so big, it can cause electrocution.
But it was a really big problem initially. And then
what we started doing here in the managed care breeding
program is we started making mock power poles and we
would put what we call a little hot wire on it,
which you would just give them a little zapp, just
a little thing to tell them, ooh, I don't like that.
I don't want to land on that anymore. So it
(06:29):
would get them to think ahead, like, oh, I know
what that does, so I'm not going.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
To land there. Yeah, you think about it. You're a
big giant sawing b I mean, what's their wingspan on.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Average, almost nine and a half feet nine and a
half feet.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
You're out there soaring around, You're like it's been a
long day, but I want to be able to keep
a eye on things. Oh look, there's a perfect perch right,
There's a big stick in the tea, So they're going
to try and land on that. Or they do land
on that and then that nine and a half foot wingspan,
they can end up possibly touching either side and get
full electrocution. The hot wire shock trains them. These are
not places you want to perch. This is a no
no and auchi whatever.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
You want to call it, exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
So part of that too, I think that idea that
we had to train them since they were bred, since
they were hatched in the managed care, they've never had
experiences in the wild. What other things do we have
to train the condors so they understand how to be
a condoor or do we do it on our own?
Do other entities may be come into play here as well.
(07:22):
I think you know what I meantioning.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, So what we do is all of our condoor
chicks are treated as release candidates, which means we don't
allow them to see us, they don't hear us, anything
like that. We don't want them to get too used
to humans, being comfortable approaching humans.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
That can be dangerous for them.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
You know, we want them to avoid human areas as
much as possible, so the only time they ever see
us is during something like an exam or something that
they would see as a negative thing, so that they're like, okay, people,
it's like the moth powerful, I'm not going anywhere near away.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
So we do that as well.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
They spend about a year at our pre release pen
with a mentor, so she kind of shows them the
ropes a little bit, so they learned exactly. They learn
a lot from mom and Dad those first six months
that they're with them, and then our mentor takes over
and she kind of shows them the ropes before they
go out to the release pens.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So when they go to the release or reintroduction area,
does a mentor go with them, or is there a
mentor there or there are other birds in the areage
show them sort of the lay of the land for
lack of a better tell.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
A lot of times sometimes they'll have a bird in
the pen waiting for them, or they get a lot
of wild visitors.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
You know, condors in general are very nosy birds.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
They want to know what's going on, so they got
to come check out the new arrivals, but our mentor
stays here and then she gets ready for the next
patch of chicks coming up. A teacher going through this
exactly exactly, she does a great job.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
I really felt that that's important to mention because I
think a lot of people think, oh, you just take
an animal, you put it back out in the wild,
they'll be fine. We found, and by we I mean
actually the predecessors to our work, those who started the
program learned through trial and era and through experience of
other introduction processes that you can't just put them out
there process of we have to train them things to avoid.
(09:02):
We have to give a mentor bird because in the
wild they'd have mentors as well. So once they do
get to that reintroduction or release space, they have the
confidence and knowledge to go be a condor in the wild.
Which exactly. Now, fast forwarding through time, back in the
eighties and nineties, we're breeding. We have our partnerships throughout
the nation, we have the federal governments helping out as well.
We all recognize it as an important bird to have around.
(09:24):
Now we have birds in the wild, Are they having
babies of their own?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Eventually they are, Yeah, so I mean that's kind of
the ultimate sign of success for a conservation project, you know,
as we want to see release candidates being released out
to the wild, forming a pair bond with a mate,
and then eventually having their own chicks and raising them.
And it's incredible to see the mentor that we have. Actually,
I was talking about one of her chicks was raising
(09:48):
a bird out in the wild.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
It was Eva. I don't know if you remember her story.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
She was rescued from a nest during the Dolan fire
back in twenty twenty, so she was brought to the
Los Angeles Zo actually had lead poisoning, so they treated
her for that and they ended up holding her back
for the managed care breeding program.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
But it was just really cool for a little while.
Eva and it was Mollaco.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
We're on exhibit together, so it was grandmother and granddaughter
and her son is still out in the wild, hopefully
producing more chicks.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
So it's really cool to see.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
It's so cool too that we have taken the time
to get to know these words like Molecla. I recognize
that name, you know, and I'm not nearly as involved
in the program as you are, but just the history
and we do know that history because we had to
bring the last twenty two ins. So from that time
forward we know everybody. And it wasn't just a matter
of like, okay, let's bring them in and pair them off.
Boy girl, boy girl. Back in our lab, they did
(10:40):
a lot of genetic work. They wanted a full genetic
backgrounds to see who's related to doing that DNA testing
and everything else. It was such an important step in
conservation and that's being applied elsewhere as far as understanding things.
But one thing that sometimes I think we in the
job we have at the San Diegoo Wildlfe Alliance, well
it's a no brain or why we have to do
the work we do. But I want to hear from you.
(11:01):
So our audience has also the opportunity to explain to
others if someone asks them, who cares why California condors?
Doesn't matter if they're going extinct anyways on their own,
which they weren't. We know it was human impact, but
that's often we hear that, like O, if they're going
to go extinct, why bother? Why spend all this time
and effort into trying to save them? So I'd love
to hear from you Nora, What would you tell a
ten year old who said, Nora, why should we bother
saving California condors.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
So condors are what's known as a keystone species, so
they're incredibly crucial to maintaining the health of their ecosystem. So,
like I was saying before, you know, their stomachs are
incredibly acidic, which means that they can get rid of disease,
bacteria and toxins in the environment that other animals and
even us can't handle. So they're kind of like nature's
(11:44):
clean up crew. They do a good job of making
sure that there isn't a lot out in the environment
that can be harmful to the rest of the ecosystem.
And they're also really important to other scavengers. You know,
Condors are big birds. They're big birds with big, very
sharp beaks. They can rip into some pretty tough hides
and that's really really beneficial to other scavengers that can't
(12:05):
necessarily do that. So they're kind of creating a meal
for other scavengers.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Up the market exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
But once they're done, then.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, right right exactly, we got to fill up, then
we'll let absolutely and then to go further into it too.
I think you had mentioned the disease issues and all that,
And that's why I've always loved doing talks about vultures
in general, because we don't usually see that problem because
the scavengers do exist. But you can imagine. I always
like to tell kids, imagine if like you take your
(12:33):
trash out to the curb, but the trash truck never
shows up, and the next week you take your trash
out there, and the next week and all of a sudden,
people who are living down from you, if it rains,
that slug's going to go down there, that bacteria is
going to go down there, and whoever's up above you,
and so also it becomes a really big problem. It
builds up over time. You notice them when they're not there,
and when you are there, like I don't get it, why.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Exactly, yeah, and when they're not there, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
It's such an important role and the work we do
is so important before we go into where we're heading
where things are now, Like, I know you have some
numbers about how many birds we have here the successes
we've had for hatching this year, which is phenomenal numbers.
But one thing that we often see on social media
is a picture of a turkey culture and someone says,
I saw a condor in my backyard, and you and
(13:18):
I can tell on site what species it is or
is not, just because for us it's obvious, we know
what one thing? Would you tell the average here in
the Southwest, we potentially could see a California condor. They
do reside north of Los Angeles in the foothills there.
They're in Arizona. They glide for long distance. Is it
potentially possible. What's the one thing someone should look for
(13:39):
to go yep, just a California condor.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
So the biggest thing you can look for is that
wing tag. So every single condor that's released has a
wing tag on both wings with GPS transmitters on them,
so that the biologists can keep an eye on where
everybody is and you know, help intervene if there's an issue.
So the wing tags are a huge giveaway right off
the bat. And they're big and because they're a big bird,
but they're big tags, big wings. You know, Turkey vultures
(14:04):
when they're soaring, they look pretty big too, their wingspans
about six feet. But once you see a condor up
there soaring, there's no comparison.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Well, and I can say too, even for myself. Sometimes
it's hard to judge the size of a bird when
it's soaring in the air because you don't have the
knowledge of distance necessarily. Yeah, you know, you can see
there's really big turkey vulture and like, oh my gosh,
it's huge. And they can be big. There's some big
girls out there, you know, those those mama birds can
carrying the eggs, they get big. But yes, the wing
tag is obviously the quickest and easiest one.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Ye.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And then of course then size. It's like saying that
mini van versus a full size school bus. You know,
it's that's big, but that's really big exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
It's always fun to see people get excited when they
absolutely California condor and I hate bursting their bubble almost.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Like, well, Turkey vultures are cool too.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
It's like, it's not a condor, but turkey cultures are
so awesome.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Exactly, but keep your eyes out. Yeah, yeah, exactly, it's
very cool.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Okay, So I have to ask, because we've talked now
about the history why it was started with the numbers,
you know where we are now today with the numbers
overall this particular spot though here at the Safari Park,
for the longest time we did have our breeding population.
Only we many years ago then opened up our public
area where there are some birds that won't be reintroduced
to the wild that are available for the public to
(15:14):
get to see, which is a great habitat. I love
that space. So let's start with that space. When our
public comes up to the Condor Ridge area of the
Safari Park and they get to the end of that
nice long path, there's that habitat. How many birds do
we currently have in there?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
So right now we have four birds in there.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
We have two adults and we have one sub adult
so she's around five years old, so almost to maturity, okay, and.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
We have one juvenile who's two. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
So the two younger ones were raised as release candidates,
but the program decided to hold them back for the
managed care breeding program because of their valuable genetics. Okay,
So their families aren't as well represented, so they wanted
to keep them for the program.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Okay, So once they mature up here in the public area,
they'll go to the breeding program, okay. And then the
other what's their story? Why aren't they going to be reintroduced.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
So these two birds were a part of the breeding
program for a long time. So one of them is Takuya,
who has a pretty famous story. She was the second
chick to hatch from a wild laid egg in the
program back in nineteen eighty three. So she's been in
the managed care breeding program since the beginning essentially.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
So she's very used to people, very used.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
To people, so not going out.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
There, very nosy and wants to be in your business.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And her sister, Squawpoony, is the other bird out on
exhibit and she hatched a year later and same story.
You know, she's been around people her whole entire life.
But they both have been incredible breeders for the program.
Takuya has produced thirty three chicks I believe in Squawpoon's
produced around twenty. So they're retired from the program now.
They're both very well represented in the program, their family
(16:50):
is very well represented, and they get to enjoy their
retirement out there with people just admiring them.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Right people anyway, So we have the four there in
the habitat for the public to come see at Condor
Ridge here at Firebork, but then in an area that
is not for the public. Yes, that I've had the
immense pleasure and luck of being up there multiple times
for filming different things, being able to see behind the scenes,
which up until gosh, almost twenty years of working here,
(17:15):
I never got that opportunity. What's our current population up
there as far as our breeders, and then how many
chicks were hatched this year?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So we have nine breeding pairs of California condors. We
have one pair of Andean condoors up there as well,
who are also contributing to the California Condor recovery programs.
They are actually foster rearing a California condor chicks.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Oh, yes, this year.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
So are they fostering because parents weren't taken care of?
Or do we double clutch? We double clutch, so clutch
to find clutch. Yes.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Female condoors will only lay one egg at a time.
It's one of the challenge one per season, right, yes, yeah,
so it's one of the challenges with this program is
that everything with them is so slow, so they'll only
lay one egg at a time.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
A lot of times in the wild, some eggs.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Will get broken, they'll get lost, so then a female
will recycle in thirty days so what we do is,
once the egg is laid, we let them sit on
it for a couple of days. And typically what we
would do is we would take that egg and pull
it to artificial incubation, and we would incubate that egg
for the whole incubation period, just so we can monitor
its progress, make sure it's developing properly, and then we
(18:22):
would give it back at hatch. And during that incubation
period we would give them a dummy egg or a
fake egg to sit on.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Right that way, they're not going to lose interesting Also,
why this from come out of it.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
They are honed in.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
They know what's going on, they know exactly what to do,
so they will sit on that the whole incubation period.
If we want a female to double clutch, so if
we want two chicks from her in one season rather
than just one, we won't give them a dummy egg.
After we pull the real egg, and then in about
thirty days or so, she'll recycle and then lay another egg.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Perfect. Yeah, And so then our andy and condo friends
are up there fostering one of the double clutched eggs,
and everyone's happy and it helps a whole program hose.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Everybody doing great.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Yeah, the Andean condors are very well represented in their
population here in the SSP, so they didn't want any
more chicks from them, but they're such good parents. We
wanted them to keep doing it and we had the
opportunity to have them raise one of the California condors.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
So cool, it was very cool.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
That's so cool. So how many chicks were hatched this year?
Speaker 3 (19:21):
We had ten chicks this year? Yeah, ten chicks.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
We have five boys and five girls, perfect fifty fifth.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
How often does that happen? That's crazy, that's never.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, it is incredible.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
So you were mentioning before while they were setting everything
up there's a special number, there's somebody who's being celebrated.
And CBS News was out here.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
And yes, yeah, So last year we had our two
hundred and fiftieth chick hatch here at the park.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
So that's two hundred and fifty here at the supper
part doesn't count our partners La Zoo and other facilities
that are doing this as well.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Just at the sofar.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
So awesome.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
It is an amazing milestone.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
And right now that chick is up at our pre
release pen with the mentor.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
You said attached last year, but this year we're getting
ready to go. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, so he in a couple of weeks will be
sent out to Arizona to Vermilion Cliffs to eventually get
released out.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
There and going with anybody else or was just a
solo trip.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
All ten from last year? Yeah, it's very exactly so cool.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
That is so cool. So often people at the Grand
Canyon can see we're.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
The best spots.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Really, people can see them really really well there and
they have a big event on public Lands Day when
they actually release some of the birds, and you know,
people will show up from far away with their binoculars
and everything and keep an eye out and watch the release,
and it's really special.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
The Peregrine Fund does a great thing.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Have you've ever gone to?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Oh, but I'm going this year.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I hope. I hope fingers crossed for you. I on
an offhand weird experience role that ice chance. I got
to escort a single I think it's a male up
to the release sight up in LA and this is
like twenty ten, I think, yeah, and I'd never I
was like, I have no idea I was getting into
and like you had mentioned the ones that were already
out and about in the wild. Were very curious. Oh yeah,
they came soaring down. When you see them come down
(21:00):
like that, it's just it's so crazy. Femo in the
wild is so amazing. Goose was just talking or condoor
bumps on. But it's so cool. So are there any
other updates we didn't talk about yet for the project
right now in the whole program or do we cover everything?
And we got numbers, We got hatchings. We got number
two fifty going out in the y fifty.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
And you know, we had ten more this year, so
we're still doing great. We had a brand new pair
this year here at the Safari car who raised a
chick for their first time. The mallets is yeah, the
male ITTs is first time ever. The female has raised before,
so she kind of knew what they did.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
And that's the thing too, right, and male and female
work together. It's a lot of species. Depending on the animal,
it's up to mom. But in case of the condors,
they co incubate. Yep, they co raise. They do all
of it together, do everything.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
It's all fifty to fifty for the most part, but yeah,
they do it all together, incubation and and these guys
are terrific parents. It's so much fun to watch them
and to be able to see We have cameras looking
in and our nextboxes so we can keep an eye
on everything. And seeing them just naturally interact with their
chicks and the chicks with them is just such an
(22:08):
amazing experience.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Here's something came to mind when you said cameras on
the nest, because you know, you see a bald eagle nest,
it's just a giant thicket of branches in the tree,
or an ospray nest at the very top of the
pinnacle part of a tree, or those tiny little hummingbird nests. Yep,
could you explain to our audience what does a condor
nest look like in the wild.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
So condors are cavity nesters, so they will find like
a cave on a cliff side to nest in, or
a cavity of a big redwood tree, something that's already
ready for them to move in, so you know, they'll
have sandy kind of substrate on the bottom. They don't
build a nest with sticks or anything like dirt. It's
just a dirt and you know they'll groom around and
(22:47):
make it look nice and get it ready for the egg.
But yeah, it's a pretty basic nest, Yeah it is.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
It's funny because I remember when I first I was like, oh,
that's it. There's no furniture or nothing. Okay. That did
remind me to you when you said they do dress
it up a little bit sometimes think, oh, sometimes they'll
like bring a bone or something or whatever, especially when
the chick's older to start mouthing on stuff. One thing
that there was also part of our remember reading why
they were having so many challenges in the wild was
a lot of litter, you know, whether it was bottle
(23:12):
lids or way back in the day when cans had
to peel tops. So it's always a good reminder, and
I love to just remind people in general when you're
out and about whether it is just a hike in
your local neighborhood, your local park wherever it may be,
a don't litter and b if you see letter, pick
it up because it really does help wildlife. Animals sometimes
are predispositioned to grab bones or small rocks for digestion purposes,
(23:34):
whatever it might be. But sometimes our litter looks like that.
Pieces of plastic can look like that, or in the
case of the condors, it was those metal bottle tops
and it can be toxic for them or cause other
problems because it's not natural where the other stuff they
normally are looking for and think that they're getting. You know,
that's the thing there, So potential reminding on that. Yeah.
Of course, one last thing before we wrap it up.
(23:54):
Actually know I lied to lasses. You had mentioned International
Vulture Days coming up.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yes, Internet Sational Vulture Awareness Day is, I believe September
six It's the first Saturday in September.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
It's about a week away from when this comes out.
This comes out the Friday before that Friday, so Saturday
the sixth, Yes, So we.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Love to celebrate that here at the Safari Park. We
have amazing vultures here for people to see. So we
have keeper talks all day, either down in the village
or up here at Condor.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Ridge, we have talks all day.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
We have tables set up with all of these different
artifacts that people can see and check out. Even if
you're riding the tram, we'll have keepers do talks on
the tram out there.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
You can see how that we've got the.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Wagassam Marsh has a bunch of African vultures in there,
and now we have a bunch of.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Vultures in the old South Stork exhibit.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Nice, so that's been set up for them and they
look amazing out there.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
That's great. That's great, and people can learn then why
it's important to have these days, why it's important to
have vulture around kind stuff we've already discussed. So that's
so cool. I really appreciate. Okay, now before we wrap
it up, we always like to ask our guests. I'm
not crazy. Usually Marko's here, so I say, I am
going to ask you, Wow, how did you get into
this specifically? I mean a lot of times people find
(25:04):
their way in different ways, and we always like to
share that story with our audience because if there's somebody
out there who's like, you know, I've always wanted to
do that. What's your story? If you don't mind me asking?
That got you here to be one of the top
California condor people here in the Safari Park.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
So I got my degree in biology and a lot
of my classes were centered around conservations. So the California
condor story was always prevalent. You know, we always hear
about it, and it was always such an amazing story
to me, and just being an animal lover in general,
a bird lover in particular, I've always loved.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
The California condors. I grew up on the East Coast.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
So I didn't get the chance to kind of grow
up in the area of California condors, but I still
had that appreciation from afar. I worked at the Philadelphia
Zoo for a long time working with birds there, and
the opportunity came up to take a position here in
the bird department. And one of the things that drove
me to come here was this program and the other
(25:58):
conservation programs that we do.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
I was like, if I could just get my foot
in there.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Just about a little bit and anyway, and now you know,
I work on it full time, which is incredible to say. So,
It's been an amazing journey getting here, and I love
every day that I get to work with these birds.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
That's so cool. What's your favorite park? Is there like
a favorite part of your day, like you first coming
in the morning or you're wrapping up. Everyone has their
own sort of moment with the animals they work with.
And it's kind of different for California condos because you
don't want them to get to know you exactly. So
is there a moment or is it maybe the condoors
that are on public habitat that are like all those
are the warm, fuzzy moments.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
It's a lot of different things, you know, And it's
almost seasonal because when we have eggs, we get to
do all of that artificial incubation, so we're monitoring the
embryo start to hatch. Then we get to see the
hatching process, and then we get to see the parents
raise the chicks.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Sometimes we're puppet rearing.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
We still do puppet rear chicks here at the park
if we have more chicks than we have pairs to raise,
which is why those andians came and clutched this year.
They helped us out. So we get to puppet rear birds.
We've been puppet rearing some other species too, and then
just seeing the birds kind of naturally interact with each other,
and like you said, you know we get that one
on one time with the birds on exhibit as well.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
You kind of get a whole bunch of different stuf.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
So many different things working on this program, and it's
like I said, I love every single day.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yes, absolutely, and just real quick because you mentioned it,
puppet rearing. Yes, so I know what that is. You
know what that is. We've covered it a lot in
our media before. But if there's anyone listening who's maybe
not too sure what that means, what is puppet rearing
a bird mean? And why do we do it?
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, So we were talking before about how we prepare
release candidates to go out into the wild and to
be as successful as possible. So one of the things
that we do is, like I said, if we have
more chicks and we have pairs from double clutching, which
can happen, sometimes we'll end up puppet rearing. So we
actually use a puppet that looks exactly like a condor,
and we use that to raise the chicks.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
So the puppet will feed them and interact with them,
and you're.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Kind of blind and they don't see you at all.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
They can't see us that the puppet is mom and dad.
We don't exist one bit. So we'll raise them until
they're about fledged age, and then they'll go out to
the pre release pen with all of the other birds
from that year, the other neighbors exactly, and it always
takes them a little while to get adjusted.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Because they're like, whoa, this is a big world out here.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
But they do great and our puppet raised kids have
done fantastic out in the wild.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
That's so awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you for sharing that,
and thank you for your time today. I really appreciate
you coming on the podcast talking about the California Condoor
Program and sharing your passion with everybody.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
No, thank you for having me. This has been such
a treat. I love it.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Awesome. Okay, so this is the part re markus like,
oh wow, I've learned so much. But he's not here,
so maybe he'll listen to this episode and he can
learn so much. I know I learned a lot too, though.
I've got a rich history of this organization. I love
this program, the California Condor Program, but every time I
get to sit and spend some time with someone who's
actually doing it day in and day out, I always
learn something more. So I really appreciate you nor I
(28:58):
taking the time to share with us. What I learned
was ten chicks, five boys, five girls. I learned two
hundred and fifty have hatched here. Well, now, more than
two hundred and fifty have hatched here, but with the
two hundred and fiftieth hatched last year, he's going to
go out in the wild now in just a couple
of weeks. It's such a great program. I hope you
enjoyed learning more about it just as much as I did.
And if you obviously have any other questions, you can
(29:18):
find Mark or myself on social media ask us questions there.
And of course you know, as we go through this
season where we're doing videos, it's coming up soon. If
you're listening to this on audio, it's coming up soon.
We're gonna open up the YouTube channel and gets to
see these actual episodes. If you're watching on YouTube, well
you already know that it's happened already, So there's that.
But coming up, we're going to go explore a little
more with conservation and how are scientists not just in
(29:42):
our breeding program for our condos or helping with making
more but what's some of the work going behind the
scenes to make sure when the anam's out in the
wild they're having success out there as well. So we're
gonna cover some of that in the next episode. I'm
Rick Schwartz, my buddy Mark will be back next time.
Thanks for watching and thanks for the listen. Guys, have
a good one. For more information about the San Diego
(30:04):
Zoo and San Diego Zoo Safari Park, go to SDZWA
dot org. Amazing Wildlife is a production of iHeartRadio. Our
supervising producers are Nikkia Swinton and Dylan Fagan, and our
sound designers are Sierra Spreen and Matt Russell. For more
shows from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ruby.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hi, I'm Rick Schwartz, and unfortunately there's no Marco when today,
but this is still Amazing Wildlife where we explore unique
stories of wildlife from around the world and uncovered fascinating
animal facts. This podcast is in partnership with iHeartRadio's Ruby
Studio and San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance, in international nonprofit
conservation organization which oversees the San Diego Zoo and of
course this amazing place, the San Diego Zoo Safari Park.
(00:33):
And before we get too far into don't worry, Marco
will be back next episode. He's on vacation right now.
But as I say, the show must go on. So
as you may remember our listeners or viewers, if you're
watching last week or last episode, we covered the thick
billed parrots and Marko was very excited, of course, because
it's all about birds. That's his thing, and he's even
more excited that this episode is about birds two so
I kind of feel bad that he's not here, but
(00:54):
also I get to get a word in now because
he's not here talking about birds. So with that said,
we're covering California condors this time. It is an amazing
story of success in conservation, but also similar to we've
talked about before with our pandas the need for the
conservation to continue. And I could sit here and talk
all about it, but as always, we have a specialist
with us. Nora, go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience.
(01:16):
Let them know who you are, what your title is,
and what you do. Sure.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
So, my name is Nora Willis.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I'm a senior wildlife care specialist here at the San
Diego Zusafari Park. I work in the bird department and
right now I am the primary wildlife care specialist for
the condoor breeding area.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Wow. So you know you kind of old a little thing
or two about California condorevers few things. The cool thing
is I have a core memory of the National Geographic
that came out in the eighties. Yes, I'm that old
that when the program first got started, and that Geo
covered a big thing. Back then. It was only a magazine,
but it was a very awesome, reputable magazine and the
stories are so in depth. And I remember that cover photo,
(01:51):
the profile of the condo. It was just so impactful
to see that bird, Especially where I grew up in
the Northwest, we didn't have that kind of wildlife that
looked like that. And again without social media back then,
we didn't really have a strong idea of what these
birds were about. So I would love to pick your
brain today about the program, a little bit of history
on it, how it's evolved over time, and then end
(02:11):
up maybe with where we are today, if that's all right.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Yeah, absolutely, So.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
To start off with in the eighties, what happened.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
So back in the.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Early eighties, there were only twenty two condors left in
the entire world, so we were down to dangerously low populations.
So the decision was made to bring those remaining twenty
two into manage care to start a breeding program. Okay,
once all of them were brought in, it took them
a little while to get everybody think it took them
about five years to get everyone in the managed care
breeding program.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
It got started.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
We were one of the partners to help start it
along with the Los Angeles sou And since then, it's
been a while since the start of the program, but
we are now looking at a total of around five
hundred and sixty individuals, both in the wild and in
the managed care breeding program.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
And similar to our story we covered with Pandas where
we talked about it took forty years pan is to
come off the endangered species list and doesn't mean that
we're done doing conservation form, just means it's working for sure.
The idea that there were twenty two individuals twenty two
California condors left alive on the planet. Now fast forward
forty years ish and now we're over five hundred of
(03:17):
that number of five hundred, how many are back in
the wild.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
It's more than half, so at all, over three hundred
flying in the wild right now.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
That's awesome, Yes, and I think it's important to bring
up too, especially for a younger audience who may not
understand what was going on back in the eighties. Why
were there only twenty two left? What were the challenges
they were facing versus what are we doing now to
mitigate those challenges? So those three hundred that are out
there or almost three hundred can have the success of
staying out there and making their own young.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Absolutely, the biggest thing is human impact, right you know,
they're very susceptible to lead poisoning from lead ammunition used.
Hunters will leave things behind from whatever they shoot, and
then condors will clean it. Up for them, and unfortunately
things will be contaminated.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
With lead if they use lead ammunition with that too.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I think it's important for people to understand that. You know, humans,
if we were to consume something that's toxic, it might
make us a little sick, but our body can process
it out usually, but that's not the case with birds.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Correct Yeah, birds is a little different.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
You know, they're a little more sensitive to toxins like
that and condors. They can handle a lot of different
things since they are scavengers they eat only dead things,
so they can handle a lot of disease, bacteria, toxins
in their system because they have such an acidic stomach.
But unfortunately, lead is one of those things that's really
really dangerous and can build up in their system and
(04:32):
cause a lot of problems.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, that's the key, if I remember correctly, and same
with the bald eagles had the ddt issue. In osprey
and other birds, it was because their body couldn't process
it and eliminate it out, so it would build up
and eventually become to the point where it is the
first couple of times it's not going to be something
that would kill them, but eventually it gets to the
point where they expire early essentially, because that build up.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, it'll let over time, it'll build up. It'll cause
kidney problems, it could cause neurological problems, and a lot
of times, unfortunately, by the time we noticed something's wrong,
it can be too late, right, right. So the big
thing that the biologists do out in the wild is
they monitor the populations very closely, and every once in
a while they'll do a big trapping event and they'll
catch up the birds and they'll get blood samples from
(05:14):
them to test their levels of lead in their blood
to see if they're doing okay and if they need
treatment right right.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
And I do want to bring up too, because I
think way back in the day, it was this whole
idea like, oh, you know, don't try and tell hunters
what to do, it's you know, whatever. But I also
remember too, there was a big movement within the hunting
community where they voluntarily said we will no longer use
lead ammunition because most hunters appreciate wildlife, they appreciate being
out in nature, and they don't want to inadvertently damage wildlife.
(05:42):
And yes, they're hunting, but the bigger picture and a
lot of them chose to make those changes and it
has made a difference absolutely. And there was also if
I remember correctly, because I remember seeing images of the
power cables being an issue as well because of their wingspan.
Can you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Yeah, so caundurs are so big. You know, a bird
lands on a power line or anything like that. They're
so small that it doesn't really impact them that much
because they're.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Not more than one wire.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
But with condor, since they're so big, it can cause electrocution.
But it was a really big problem initially. And then
what we started doing here in the managed care breeding
program is we started making mock power poles and we
would put what we call a little hot wire on it,
which you would just give them a little zapp, just
a little thing to tell them, ooh, I don't like that.
I don't want to land on that anymore. So it
(06:29):
would get them to think ahead, like, oh, I know
what that does, so I'm not going.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
To land there. Yeah, you think about it. You're a
big giant sawing b I mean, what's their wingspan on.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Average, almost nine and a half feet nine and a
half feet.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
You're out there soaring around, You're like it's been a
long day, but I want to be able to keep
a eye on things. Oh look, there's a perfect perch right,
There's a big stick in the tea, So they're going
to try and land on that. Or they do land
on that and then that nine and a half foot wingspan,
they can end up possibly touching either side and get
full electrocution. The hot wire shock trains them. These are
not places you want to perch. This is a no
no and auchi whatever.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
You want to call it, exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
So part of that too, I think that idea that
we had to train them since they were bred, since
they were hatched in the managed care, they've never had
experiences in the wild. What other things do we have
to train the condors so they understand how to be
a condoor or do we do it on our own?
Do other entities may be come into play here as well.
(07:22):
I think you know what I meantioning.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, So what we do is all of our condoor
chicks are treated as release candidates, which means we don't
allow them to see us, they don't hear us, anything
like that. We don't want them to get too used
to humans, being comfortable approaching humans.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
That can be dangerous for them.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
You know, we want them to avoid human areas as
much as possible, so the only time they ever see
us is during something like an exam or something that
they would see as a negative thing, so that they're like, okay, people,
it's like the moth powerful, I'm not going anywhere near away.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
So we do that as well.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
They spend about a year at our pre release pen
with a mentor, so she kind of shows them the
ropes a little bit, so they learned exactly. They learn
a lot from mom and Dad those first six months
that they're with them, and then our mentor takes over
and she kind of shows them the ropes before they
go out to the release pens.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So when they go to the release or reintroduction area,
does a mentor go with them, or is there a
mentor there or there are other birds in the areage
show them sort of the lay of the land for
lack of a better tell.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
A lot of times sometimes they'll have a bird in
the pen waiting for them, or they get a lot
of wild visitors.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
You know, condors in general are very nosy birds.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
They want to know what's going on, so they got
to come check out the new arrivals, but our mentor
stays here and then she gets ready for the next
patch of chicks coming up. A teacher going through this
exactly exactly, she does a great job.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
I really felt that that's important to mention because I
think a lot of people think, oh, you just take
an animal, you put it back out in the wild,
they'll be fine. We found, and by we I mean
actually the predecessors to our work, those who started the
program learned through trial and era and through experience of
other introduction processes that you can't just put them out
there process of we have to train them things to avoid.
(09:02):
We have to give a mentor bird because in the
wild they'd have mentors as well. So once they do
get to that reintroduction or release space, they have the
confidence and knowledge to go be a condor in the wild.
Which exactly. Now, fast forwarding through time, back in the
eighties and nineties, we're breeding. We have our partnerships throughout
the nation, we have the federal governments helping out as well.
We all recognize it as an important bird to have around.
(09:24):
Now we have birds in the wild, Are they having
babies of their own?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Eventually they are, Yeah, so I mean that's kind of
the ultimate sign of success for a conservation project, you know,
as we want to see release candidates being released out
to the wild, forming a pair bond with a mate,
and then eventually having their own chicks and raising them.
And it's incredible to see the mentor that we have. Actually,
I was talking about one of her chicks was raising
(09:48):
a bird out in the wild.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
It was Eva. I don't know if you remember her story.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
She was rescued from a nest during the Dolan fire
back in twenty twenty, so she was brought to the
Los Angeles Zo actually had lead poisoning, so they treated
her for that and they ended up holding her back
for the managed care breeding program.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
But it was just really cool for a little while.
Eva and it was Mollaco.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
We're on exhibit together, so it was grandmother and granddaughter
and her son is still out in the wild, hopefully
producing more chicks.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
So it's really cool to see.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
It's so cool too that we have taken the time
to get to know these words like Molecla. I recognize
that name, you know, and I'm not nearly as involved
in the program as you are, but just the history
and we do know that history because we had to
bring the last twenty two ins. So from that time
forward we know everybody. And it wasn't just a matter
of like, okay, let's bring them in and pair them off.
Boy girl, boy girl. Back in our lab, they did
(10:40):
a lot of genetic work. They wanted a full genetic
backgrounds to see who's related to doing that DNA testing
and everything else. It was such an important step in
conservation and that's being applied elsewhere as far as understanding things.
But one thing that sometimes I think we in the
job we have at the San Diegoo Wildlfe Alliance, well
it's a no brain or why we have to do
the work we do. But I want to hear from you.
(11:01):
So our audience has also the opportunity to explain to
others if someone asks them, who cares why California condors?
Doesn't matter if they're going extinct anyways on their own,
which they weren't. We know it was human impact, but
that's often we hear that, like O, if they're going
to go extinct, why bother? Why spend all this time
and effort into trying to save them? So I'd love
to hear from you Nora, What would you tell a
ten year old who said, Nora, why should we bother
saving California condors.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
So condors are what's known as a keystone species, so
they're incredibly crucial to maintaining the health of their ecosystem. So,
like I was saying before, you know, their stomachs are
incredibly acidic, which means that they can get rid of disease,
bacteria and toxins in the environment that other animals and
even us can't handle. So they're kind of like nature's
(11:44):
clean up crew. They do a good job of making
sure that there isn't a lot out in the environment
that can be harmful to the rest of the ecosystem.
And they're also really important to other scavengers. You know,
Condors are big birds. They're big birds with big, very
sharp beaks. They can rip into some pretty tough hides
and that's really really beneficial to other scavengers that can't
(12:05):
necessarily do that. So they're kind of creating a meal
for other scavengers.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Up the market exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
But once they're done, then.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, right right exactly, we got to fill up, then
we'll let absolutely and then to go further into it too.
I think you had mentioned the disease issues and all that,
And that's why I've always loved doing talks about vultures
in general, because we don't usually see that problem because
the scavengers do exist. But you can imagine. I always
like to tell kids, imagine if like you take your
(12:33):
trash out to the curb, but the trash truck never
shows up, and the next week you take your trash
out there, and the next week and all of a sudden,
people who are living down from you, if it rains,
that slug's going to go down there, that bacteria is
going to go down there, and whoever's up above you,
and so also it becomes a really big problem. It
builds up over time. You notice them when they're not there,
and when you are there, like I don't get it, why.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Exactly, yeah, and when they're not there, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
It's such an important role and the work we do
is so important before we go into where we're heading
where things are now, Like, I know you have some
numbers about how many birds we have here the successes
we've had for hatching this year, which is phenomenal numbers.
But one thing that we often see on social media
is a picture of a turkey culture and someone says,
I saw a condor in my backyard, and you and
(13:18):
I can tell on site what species it is or
is not, just because for us it's obvious, we know
what one thing? Would you tell the average here in
the Southwest, we potentially could see a California condor. They
do reside north of Los Angeles in the foothills there.
They're in Arizona. They glide for long distance. Is it
potentially possible. What's the one thing someone should look for
(13:39):
to go yep, just a California condor.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
So the biggest thing you can look for is that
wing tag. So every single condor that's released has a
wing tag on both wings with GPS transmitters on them,
so that the biologists can keep an eye on where
everybody is and you know, help intervene if there's an issue.
So the wing tags are a huge giveaway right off
the bat. And they're big and because they're a big bird,
but they're big tags, big wings. You know, Turkey vultures
(14:04):
when they're soaring, they look pretty big too, their wingspans
about six feet. But once you see a condor up
there soaring, there's no comparison.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Well, and I can say too, even for myself. Sometimes
it's hard to judge the size of a bird when
it's soaring in the air because you don't have the
knowledge of distance necessarily. Yeah, you know, you can see
there's really big turkey vulture and like, oh my gosh,
it's huge. And they can be big. There's some big
girls out there, you know, those those mama birds can
carrying the eggs, they get big. But yes, the wing
tag is obviously the quickest and easiest one.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Ye.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And then of course then size. It's like saying that
mini van versus a full size school bus. You know,
it's that's big, but that's really big exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
It's always fun to see people get excited when they
absolutely California condor and I hate bursting their bubble almost.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Like, well, Turkey vultures are cool too.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
It's like, it's not a condor, but turkey cultures are
so awesome.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Exactly, but keep your eyes out. Yeah, yeah, exactly, it's
very cool.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Okay, So I have to ask, because we've talked now
about the history why it was started with the numbers,
you know where we are now today with the numbers
overall this particular spot though here at the Safari Park,
for the longest time we did have our breeding population.
Only we many years ago then opened up our public
area where there are some birds that won't be reintroduced
to the wild that are available for the public to
(15:14):
get to see, which is a great habitat. I love
that space. So let's start with that space. When our
public comes up to the Condor Ridge area of the
Safari Park and they get to the end of that
nice long path, there's that habitat. How many birds do
we currently have in there?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
So right now we have four birds in there.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
We have two adults and we have one sub adult
so she's around five years old, so almost to maturity, okay, and.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
We have one juvenile who's two. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
So the two younger ones were raised as release candidates,
but the program decided to hold them back for the
managed care breeding program because of their valuable genetics. Okay,
So their families aren't as well represented, so they wanted
to keep them for the program.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Okay, So once they mature up here in the public area,
they'll go to the breeding program, okay. And then the
other what's their story? Why aren't they going to be reintroduced.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
So these two birds were a part of the breeding
program for a long time. So one of them is Takuya,
who has a pretty famous story. She was the second
chick to hatch from a wild laid egg in the
program back in nineteen eighty three. So she's been in
the managed care breeding program since the beginning essentially.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
So she's very used to people, very used.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
To people, so not going out.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
There, very nosy and wants to be in your business.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And her sister, Squawpoony, is the other bird out on
exhibit and she hatched a year later and same story.
You know, she's been around people her whole entire life.
But they both have been incredible breeders for the program.
Takuya has produced thirty three chicks I believe in Squawpoon's
produced around twenty. So they're retired from the program now.
They're both very well represented in the program, their family
(16:50):
is very well represented, and they get to enjoy their
retirement out there with people just admiring them.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Right people anyway, So we have the four there in
the habitat for the public to come see at Condor
Ridge here at Firebork, but then in an area that
is not for the public. Yes, that I've had the
immense pleasure and luck of being up there multiple times
for filming different things, being able to see behind the scenes,
which up until gosh, almost twenty years of working here,
(17:15):
I never got that opportunity. What's our current population up
there as far as our breeders, and then how many
chicks were hatched this year?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So we have nine breeding pairs of California condors. We
have one pair of Andean condoors up there as well,
who are also contributing to the California Condor recovery programs.
They are actually foster rearing a California condor chicks.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Oh, yes, this year.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
So are they fostering because parents weren't taken care of?
Or do we double clutch? We double clutch, so clutch
to find clutch. Yes.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Female condoors will only lay one egg at a time.
It's one of the challenge one per season, right, yes, yeah,
so it's one of the challenges with this program is
that everything with them is so slow, so they'll only
lay one egg at a time.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
A lot of times in the wild, some eggs.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Will get broken, they'll get lost, so then a female
will recycle in thirty days so what we do is,
once the egg is laid, we let them sit on
it for a couple of days. And typically what we
would do is we would take that egg and pull
it to artificial incubation, and we would incubate that egg
for the whole incubation period, just so we can monitor
its progress, make sure it's developing properly, and then we
(18:22):
would give it back at hatch. And during that incubation
period we would give them a dummy egg or a
fake egg to sit on.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Right that way, they're not going to lose interesting Also,
why this from come out of it.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
They are honed in.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
They know what's going on, they know exactly what to do,
so they will sit on that the whole incubation period.
If we want a female to double clutch, so if
we want two chicks from her in one season rather
than just one, we won't give them a dummy egg.
After we pull the real egg, and then in about
thirty days or so, she'll recycle and then lay another egg.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Perfect. Yeah, And so then our andy and condo friends
are up there fostering one of the double clutched eggs,
and everyone's happy and it helps a whole program hose.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Everybody doing great.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Yeah, the Andean condors are very well represented in their
population here in the SSP, so they didn't want any
more chicks from them, but they're such good parents. We
wanted them to keep doing it and we had the
opportunity to have them raise one of the California condors.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
So cool, it was very cool.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
That's so cool. So how many chicks were hatched this year?
Speaker 3 (19:21):
We had ten chicks this year? Yeah, ten chicks.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
We have five boys and five girls, perfect fifty fifth.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
How often does that happen? That's crazy, that's never.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, it is incredible.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
So you were mentioning before while they were setting everything
up there's a special number, there's somebody who's being celebrated.
And CBS News was out here.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
And yes, yeah, So last year we had our two
hundred and fiftieth chick hatch here at the park.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
So that's two hundred and fifty here at the supper
part doesn't count our partners La Zoo and other facilities
that are doing this as well.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Just at the sofar.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
So awesome.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
It is an amazing milestone.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
And right now that chick is up at our pre
release pen with the mentor.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
You said attached last year, but this year we're getting
ready to go. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, so he in a couple of weeks will be
sent out to Arizona to Vermilion Cliffs to eventually get
released out.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
There and going with anybody else or was just a
solo trip.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
All ten from last year? Yeah, it's very exactly so cool.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
That is so cool. So often people at the Grand
Canyon can see we're.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
The best spots.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Really, people can see them really really well there and
they have a big event on public Lands Day when
they actually release some of the birds, and you know,
people will show up from far away with their binoculars
and everything and keep an eye out and watch the release,
and it's really special.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
The Peregrine Fund does a great thing.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Have you've ever gone to?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Oh, but I'm going this year.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I hope. I hope fingers crossed for you. I on
an offhand weird experience role that ice chance. I got
to escort a single I think it's a male up
to the release sight up in LA and this is
like twenty ten, I think, yeah, and I'd never I
was like, I have no idea I was getting into
and like you had mentioned the ones that were already
out and about in the wild. Were very curious. Oh yeah,
they came soaring down. When you see them come down
(21:00):
like that, it's just it's so crazy. Femo in the
wild is so amazing. Goose was just talking or condoor
bumps on. But it's so cool. So are there any
other updates we didn't talk about yet for the project
right now in the whole program or do we cover everything?
And we got numbers, We got hatchings. We got number
two fifty going out in the y fifty.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
And you know, we had ten more this year, so
we're still doing great. We had a brand new pair
this year here at the Safari car who raised a
chick for their first time. The mallets is yeah, the
male ITTs is first time ever. The female has raised before,
so she kind of knew what they did.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
And that's the thing too, right, and male and female
work together. It's a lot of species. Depending on the animal,
it's up to mom. But in case of the condors,
they co incubate. Yep, they co raise. They do all
of it together, do everything.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
It's all fifty to fifty for the most part, but yeah,
they do it all together, incubation and and these guys
are terrific parents. It's so much fun to watch them
and to be able to see We have cameras looking
in and our nextboxes so we can keep an eye
on everything. And seeing them just naturally interact with their
chicks and the chicks with them is just such an
(22:08):
amazing experience.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Here's something came to mind when you said cameras on
the nest, because you know, you see a bald eagle nest,
it's just a giant thicket of branches in the tree,
or an ospray nest at the very top of the
pinnacle part of a tree, or those tiny little hummingbird nests. Yep,
could you explain to our audience what does a condor
nest look like in the wild.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
So condors are cavity nesters, so they will find like
a cave on a cliff side to nest in, or
a cavity of a big redwood tree, something that's already
ready for them to move in, so you know, they'll
have sandy kind of substrate on the bottom. They don't
build a nest with sticks or anything like dirt. It's
just a dirt and you know they'll groom around and
(22:47):
make it look nice and get it ready for the egg.
But yeah, it's a pretty basic nest, Yeah it is.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
It's funny because I remember when I first I was like, oh,
that's it. There's no furniture or nothing. Okay. That did
remind me to you when you said they do dress
it up a little bit sometimes think, oh, sometimes they'll
like bring a bone or something or whatever, especially when
the chick's older to start mouthing on stuff. One thing
that there was also part of our remember reading why
they were having so many challenges in the wild was
a lot of litter, you know, whether it was bottle
(23:12):
lids or way back in the day when cans had
to peel tops. So it's always a good reminder, and
I love to just remind people in general when you're
out and about whether it is just a hike in
your local neighborhood, your local park wherever it may be,
a don't litter and b if you see letter, pick
it up because it really does help wildlife. Animals sometimes
are predispositioned to grab bones or small rocks for digestion purposes,
(23:34):
whatever it might be. But sometimes our litter looks like that.
Pieces of plastic can look like that, or in the
case of the condors, it was those metal bottle tops
and it can be toxic for them or cause other
problems because it's not natural where the other stuff they
normally are looking for and think that they're getting. You know,
that's the thing there, So potential reminding on that. Yeah.
Of course, one last thing before we wrap it up.
(23:54):
Actually know I lied to lasses. You had mentioned International
Vulture Days coming up.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yes, Internet Sational Vulture Awareness Day is, I believe September
six It's the first Saturday in September.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
It's about a week away from when this comes out.
This comes out the Friday before that Friday, so Saturday
the sixth, Yes, So we.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Love to celebrate that here at the Safari Park. We
have amazing vultures here for people to see. So we
have keeper talks all day, either down in the village
or up here at Condor.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Ridge, we have talks all day.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
We have tables set up with all of these different
artifacts that people can see and check out. Even if
you're riding the tram, we'll have keepers do talks on
the tram out there.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
You can see how that we've got the.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Wagassam Marsh has a bunch of African vultures in there,
and now we have a bunch of.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Vultures in the old South Stork exhibit.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Nice, so that's been set up for them and they
look amazing out there.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
That's great. That's great, and people can learn then why
it's important to have these days, why it's important to
have vulture around kind stuff we've already discussed. So that's
so cool. I really appreciate. Okay, now before we wrap
it up, we always like to ask our guests. I'm
not crazy. Usually Marko's here, so I say, I am
going to ask you, Wow, how did you get into
this specifically? I mean a lot of times people find
(25:04):
their way in different ways, and we always like to
share that story with our audience because if there's somebody
out there who's like, you know, I've always wanted to
do that. What's your story? If you don't mind me asking?
That got you here to be one of the top
California condor people here in the Safari Park.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
So I got my degree in biology and a lot
of my classes were centered around conservations. So the California
condor story was always prevalent. You know, we always hear
about it, and it was always such an amazing story
to me, and just being an animal lover in general,
a bird lover in particular, I've always loved.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
The California condors. I grew up on the East Coast.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
So I didn't get the chance to kind of grow
up in the area of California condors, but I still
had that appreciation from afar. I worked at the Philadelphia
Zoo for a long time working with birds there, and
the opportunity came up to take a position here in
the bird department. And one of the things that drove
me to come here was this program and the other
(25:58):
conservation programs that we do.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
I was like, if I could just get my foot
in there.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Just about a little bit and anyway, and now you know,
I work on it full time, which is incredible to say. So,
It's been an amazing journey getting here, and I love
every day that I get to work with these birds.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
That's so cool. What's your favorite park? Is there like
a favorite part of your day, like you first coming
in the morning or you're wrapping up. Everyone has their
own sort of moment with the animals they work with.
And it's kind of different for California condos because you
don't want them to get to know you exactly. So
is there a moment or is it maybe the condoors
that are on public habitat that are like all those
are the warm, fuzzy moments.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
It's a lot of different things, you know, And it's
almost seasonal because when we have eggs, we get to
do all of that artificial incubation, so we're monitoring the
embryo start to hatch. Then we get to see the
hatching process, and then we get to see the parents
raise the chicks.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Sometimes we're puppet rearing.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
We still do puppet rear chicks here at the park
if we have more chicks than we have pairs to raise,
which is why those andians came and clutched this year.
They helped us out. So we get to puppet rear birds.
We've been puppet rearing some other species too, and then
just seeing the birds kind of naturally interact with each other,
and like you said, you know we get that one
on one time with the birds on exhibit as well.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
You kind of get a whole bunch of different stuf.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
So many different things working on this program, and it's
like I said, I love every single day.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yes, absolutely, and just real quick because you mentioned it,
puppet rearing. Yes, so I know what that is. You
know what that is. We've covered it a lot in
our media before. But if there's anyone listening who's maybe
not too sure what that means, what is puppet rearing
a bird mean? And why do we do it?
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, So we were talking before about how we prepare
release candidates to go out into the wild and to
be as successful as possible. So one of the things
that we do is, like I said, if we have
more chicks and we have pairs from double clutching, which
can happen, sometimes we'll end up puppet rearing. So we
actually use a puppet that looks exactly like a condor,
and we use that to raise the chicks.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
So the puppet will feed them and interact with them,
and you're.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Kind of blind and they don't see you at all.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
They can't see us that the puppet is mom and dad.
We don't exist one bit. So we'll raise them until
they're about fledged age, and then they'll go out to
the pre release pen with all of the other birds
from that year, the other neighbors exactly, and it always
takes them a little while to get adjusted.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Because they're like, whoa, this is a big world out here.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
But they do great and our puppet raised kids have
done fantastic out in the wild.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
That's so awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you for sharing that,
and thank you for your time today. I really appreciate
you coming on the podcast talking about the California Condoor
Program and sharing your passion with everybody.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
No, thank you for having me. This has been such
a treat. I love it.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Awesome. Okay, so this is the part re markus like,
oh wow, I've learned so much. But he's not here,
so maybe he'll listen to this episode and he can
learn so much. I know I learned a lot too, though.
I've got a rich history of this organization. I love
this program, the California Condor Program, but every time I
get to sit and spend some time with someone who's
actually doing it day in and day out, I always
learn something more. So I really appreciate you nor I
(28:58):
taking the time to share with us. What I learned
was ten chicks, five boys, five girls. I learned two
hundred and fifty have hatched here. Well, now, more than
two hundred and fifty have hatched here, but with the
two hundred and fiftieth hatched last year, he's going to
go out in the wild now in just a couple
of weeks. It's such a great program. I hope you
enjoyed learning more about it just as much as I did.
And if you obviously have any other questions, you can
(29:18):
find Mark or myself on social media ask us questions there.
And of course you know, as we go through this
season where we're doing videos, it's coming up soon. If
you're listening to this on audio, it's coming up soon.
We're gonna open up the YouTube channel and gets to
see these actual episodes. If you're watching on YouTube, well
you already know that it's happened already, So there's that.
But coming up, we're going to go explore a little
more with conservation and how are scientists not just in
(29:42):
our breeding program for our condos or helping with making
more but what's some of the work going behind the
scenes to make sure when the anam's out in the
wild they're having success out there as well. So we're
gonna cover some of that in the next episode. I'm
Rick Schwartz, my buddy Mark will be back next time.
Thanks for watching and thanks for the listen. Guys, have
a good one. For more information about the San Diego
(30:04):
Zoo and San Diego Zoo Safari Park, go to SDZWA
dot org. Amazing Wildlife is a production of iHeartRadio. Our
supervising producers are Nikkia Swinton and Dylan Fagan, and our
sound designers are Sierra Spreen and Matt Russell. For more
shows from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Rick Schwartz
Marco Wendt
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