August 6, 2025 • 34 mins
Why did a French-born aristocrat volunteer (without pay) to fight for the Americans during the Revolutionary War? And what happened when the Marquis de Lafayette returned to France to fight in its revolution? And is his name really Marie-Joseph Paul Yves Roch Gilbert du Motier de La Fayette?!
This episode is all about Lafayette, including his Era's Tour return to America decades after the revolution.
GUEST: Lloyd Kramer, historian and author of the book Lafayette in Two Worlds: Public Cultures and Personal Identities in an Age of Revolutions
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bob Crawford (00:03):
You've reached American History Hotline. You asked the questions, we
get the answers. Leave a message. Hey, there are American
History Hotliners. Your host, Bob Crawford here, happy to be
joining you again for another episode of American History Hotline.
You're the ones with the questions. I'm a guy trying
(00:24):
to get you some answers and keep those questions coming.
Our email is Americanhistory Hotline at gmail dot com. That's
Americanistory Hotline at gmail dot com. Extra points for sending
us a video or a voice memo of you asking
your question. Oh and normally I'd say let's keep this
(00:47):
question to this continent, but today is a bit of
a special case. We're talking about America's favorite fighting Frenchman.
That's right, Lafayette, the Marquee. I love Lafayette. He is
one of these great figures from American history. We're gonna
(01:07):
get into it. I don't want to spoil it because
we have an amazing guest to talk about Lafayette. But
I gotta say there is a Lafayette John Quincy Adam's connection.
We'll talk about that later. And you know, JQA is
my favorite here to help me answer this question about
Lafayette Today is Lloyd Kramer, author of the book Lafayette
(01:28):
in Two Worlds, Public Cultures and Personal Identities in an
Age of Revolutions. Lloyd, thanks for joining me today.
Lloyd Kramer (01:37):
Well, thank you, Bob. I'm very happy to be here.
Bob Crawford (01:40):
Okay, Lloyd, here's the question we were hoping you could
help us answer.
Philippe (01:44):
Hi, this is Flip in Paris. I love the characterization
of Lafayette in the music in Hamilton, and I learned
it's all about him in historic class, but I don't
actually know much about him. Who was the real Marquis
de Lafayette and why did he fight with the Americans
during the Revolutionary War?
Bob Crawford (02:04):
Lloyd, I want to start a little cinematically here with
some action. Can you set the scene by dropping us
into the Battle of York Town and what the Marquis
de Lafayette was doing during that battle?
Lloyd Kramer (02:21):
Well, the Battle of Yorktown would have been the culmination
of his American experience in October of seventeen eighty one,
but it exemplifies his values, his style, and his success.
He had been sent to Virginia in the spring of
seventeen eighty one to capture General Benedict Arnold, who was
(02:46):
by then fighting with the British. He never was able
to capture Arnold, but he had a small detachment of
troops and he began tracking the British army. When General
Cornwallis came into Virginia later that year, he fought with
him as a kind of guerrilla commander and ended up
at Yorktown and said to General Washington, I have him trapped.
(03:12):
Bring the French army under General Rochambeau and your army,
and we have the British captured here at Yorktown.
Bob Crawford (03:22):
In Yorktown, there was this relationship. That's where a lot
of us know, that relationship between Hamilton and Lafayette. They
had this Alexander Hamilton of course in the Marquis de Lafayette.
They were both like sons to General Washington. Correct, that's correct.
Lloyd Kramer (03:40):
That you could even say there was a little rivalry
between the two of them as to which one Washington
would like best or support the most.
Bob Crawford (03:49):
And okay, you go ahead.
Lloyd Kramer (03:51):
Well, I would just say Yorktown was one of the
places where they ended up together. Because, of course Hamilton
had been eager to have a more active military role.
He had often done a lot of secretarial work for Washington,
and they were both involved, Lafayette and Hamilton in the
command of troops that were to storm the redoubts that
(04:13):
surrounded the British position in Yorktown. And I would just
say one additional thing about that. Lafayette wanted to command,
but he let Hamilton take the lead in the storming
of one of the redoubts at Yorktown. And I think
Hamilton appreciated that about Lafayette's generosity, and we might say
(04:34):
that was a key to Lafayette's success in the American Revolution.
Unlike many Europeans, many French people, he was always deferential
to his American friends, starting above all with George Washington,
whom he said, I want to listen to you. I
don't want to tell you what to do. But he
got along with Americans so well because he had a
(04:55):
style that was congenial, supportive, and the style of the listener,
rather than someone who just told people this is what
you should do.
Bob Crawford (05:04):
What a lesson for life. You're young and you get
out of school and you start working somewhere, and I
remember being told by someone who said, you do your best.
You soak up what we tell you like a sponge
and other people will brag for you. They will they
will sing your praises. You just listen to whatever people
(05:25):
want to teach. Okay, let's let's get back to the
beginning for the Marquis. What first of all, what was
the Marquis de Lafayette's real name? Can you remember the
whole thing?
Lloyd Kramer (05:37):
Well, the whole name was something like Giubette de Mottier.
Anyway he was. He was always called Givett. That was
his name, Giuvette de de Marquis de Lafayette, Marie Joseph
de Maatier de Lafayette, you know, something like that. I
should know. I've written the whole book about him, But
(05:59):
nobody called him by his whole name, although he was
called Gibert by his close family, but the Americans just
always called him the Marquis de Lafayette or General Lafayette.
And his family was from He was from an old
aristocratic family in central France, an area called Ouvergne, which
(06:19):
is near Clermont Feron in central France. His father had
been a military officer in the French army, and he
was killed when young Lafayette Jiubert was only two years old.
He never knew his father. His father was killed during
the Seven Years' War in a Battle of Mendon by
(06:40):
a British military unit. So Lafayette grew up never knowing
his father.
Bob Crawford (06:46):
How did Lafayette get into military service.
Lloyd Kramer (06:50):
So Lafayette lived till he was about ten or twelve
down in the countryside there in the South's family was
from the other parts of France, and she took him
to Paris. She died when he was only about twelve
years old. So by the time he before he was
(07:12):
a teenager, Lafayette had lost both his parents. But because
of his mother's wealth, he inherited a whole lot of money.
He was one of the richest boys in all of France.
And there was a wealthy, influential family called the Noe family.
They had five daughters. They needed a wealthy young man.
(07:34):
They ranged through family members that these two people, Lafayette
and Adrienne, would be married and they had a family regiment,
And so he became a command of an officer in
the Noe family regiment. He had already been in the
military a bit, but then he became an officer in
(07:56):
their family regiment.
Bob Crawford (07:58):
I was watching the Ben Franklin see on Apple TV
and Lafayette is a prominent character. He's portrayed as a
young military mind looking for a cause he wanted to fight.
Is that accurate?
Lloyd Kramer (08:11):
I think he wanted to be famous. You know, this
is an interesting psychological question. What made this young frenchman
differ from other people of his class and his community.
He had studied the writings of Plutarch. I don't know
if people are so familiar with Plutarch now, but Plutarch
(08:33):
was an ancient writer who had written the lives of
Greek and Roman heroes, great political and military leaders, and
he had shown Plutarch had shown that noble, virtuous service
was the way to get a public reputation. And he
was an influential author for people of Lafayette's generation and
(08:57):
the noble class. And I think this inspired Lafayette. He
wanted to be famous from an early age, but there
he was. He joined this family regiment and went off
to eastern France, the city of Mets and Mets in
the east, and for several years he was just a
young boy without too much prospect except to be another
(09:21):
officer in a French regiment on the frontier. But he
dreamed of being famous.
Bob Crawford (09:29):
So how did he actually get involved in the American Revolution.
Lloyd Kramer (09:34):
So this is one of the most interesting things. He
was out there in eastern France at a French military base,
and in the late summer of seventeen seventy five, and
remember Lafayette was not even eighteen years old at that time.
The brother of the King of England came through on
(09:55):
a tour visiting various sites in Europe, and he happened
to under this base, and the commander at the base
or other officers invited Lafayette to have dinner with this
brother of the King, George of England. And this brother,
the Duke of Gloucester, was critical of his brother. He
actually sympathized with the Americans. He said, I think the
(10:17):
Americans have some good ideas. I don't know why we're
trying to defeat them. Over there, the Revolution had just
started Battle of Bunker Hill, and Lafayette was fascinated by this.
He had also just joined Lafayette had just joined the Freemasons,
where he had begun to hear about ideas like liberty
(10:38):
or the value of reason. And the combination of his
education about great Roman heroes, the Freemasons, and then the
stories of the Duke of Gloucester fascinated him, and he
decided he wanted to get involved somehow in the American Revolution.
(10:58):
But how to do it was the problem?
Bob Crawford (11:01):
Okay, so what was yeah? So how did he do it?
What was the American response?
Philippe (11:06):
Like?
Bob Crawford (11:07):
What did they think of him when he showed up?
Lloyd Kramer (11:11):
So, first of all, how do you get to America
if you happened to be in the French army, which
has no relationship with America At that time, there was
an American agent in Paris named Silas Dean who had
been sent by the Continental Congress to recruit officers and
gain support from the French government. But of course the
(11:33):
French were not officially at war with England, so they
couldn't support what Dean was doing.
Bob Crawford (11:39):
And this is seventeen.
Lloyd Kramer (11:42):
This was now. Dean arrived in December of seventeen seventy six,
and Lafayette began negotiating with him very shortly after that.
So Dean knew that Lafayette's family, the Noae family, was
very influential, very powerful, and therefore he would be a
(12:02):
good recruit. And one of the officers whom Dean had
met told Dean about Lafayette Lafayette went to Paris secretly
met with Dean. Dean promised him a position of major general.
By this, you know, a nineteen year old boy at
this point, If you go to America, you can be
a major general in the army. But of course there
(12:23):
was no way for him to get there. So Lafayette
secretly bought his own ship, a ship called the Victoire,
and worked out a plan with some other officers who
also wanted to escape and go to America, And in
April of seventeen seventy seven, carrying a letter from Silas
Dean offering him a commission in the army, he sailed
(12:47):
to America and landed near Charleston in June of seventeen
seventy seven, nineteen years old.
Bob Crawford (12:59):
This is the French I mean American History Hotline. I'm
your host Bob Crawford. Today my guest is Lloyd Kramer,
author of the book Lafayette in Two Worlds, Public Cultures
and Personal Identities in an Age of Revolutions. Today we're
talking about the Marquis de Lafayette, a man who joined
(13:20):
the ranks of one named celebrities like Cher and Bono.
To US Americans, he's simply Lafayette. Before we get back
to the conversation, we want your help. Record yourself using
the voice memo app on your phone and email it
to Americanistoryhotline at gmail dot com. That's American History Hotline
(13:41):
at gmail dot com. Now back to the show, Lloyd. Okay,
so Lafayette comes to the United States. He is a
nineteen year old major general. Take us back to the
first meeting between him and Washington.
Lloyd Kramer (13:58):
Okay, Dan, you here, Ry. I was in Charleston with
a promise that he can be a major general. But
he's not yet a major general. He travels over land.
It took about four or five weeks, maybe more, to
get to Philadelphia. He goes to the Continental Congress in
the summer of seventeen seventy seven and says, here, I
(14:20):
am to be a major general. And the Congress just
looked at the letter and said, great, but we don't
need you. He at first was rebuffed. But about that time,
by this time, Franklin, Benjamin Franklin, was in Paris and
he wrote a letter, and the Congress got the letter,
and Franklin said, this guy Lafayette, whom he had met briefly,
(14:42):
this guy Lafayette has important family members, you ought to
take him seriously. Lafayette then went to somehow he was
able to meet George Washington at the City Tavern in
Philadelphia in late August, and they immediately connected. And Washington
and also decided because he had heard about Lafayette's family,
(15:04):
especially as in laws, and Washington said, okay, we'll make
you a major general. Congress approves it, but you will
get no pay. So Lafayette served in the entire Revolutionary
War as an unpaid major general in the Continental Army.
Bob Crawford (15:22):
So so my image of Washington is he's a tough guy.
He's not going to smile. He will take a lot
to impress him or catch his eye or his ear.
How did Lafayette do it?
Lloyd Kramer (15:38):
I mean, do we know, well, you know, there's been
a lot of speculation about Washington's attraction to Lafayette. We know,
of course that Washington had no son. He had a
step son, but he had never had a son. And
we know that Lafayette had no father. Remember, Lafayette's father
died when he was two years old, and the age
(16:01):
differential made them a kind of father son connection. And
Lafayette from the beginning conveyed to Washington that he was
there to help, to listen, to support the cause, and
not to tell anybody what to do. Washington was a
realist who knew that the Americans needed the help of
(16:23):
powerful people in France. He was also a human being
who warned to Lafayette's personal style, to Lafayette's willingness to listen,
and to Lafayette's energy and ambition. So Washington and Lafayette
formed an incredible bond that never broke for the rest
(16:46):
of their lives.
Bob Crawford (16:47):
Tell us about some of the notable battles that Lafayette.
I knew, we already talked about your town a little bit.
But what were some of the notable battles that Lafayette
fought in and how did he perform?
Lloyd Kramer (17:00):
So his first important battle was at Brandywine, just literally
a couple of weeks after he had joined as a
major general. This was outside Philadelphia. The British were coming
to Philadelphia to try to drive out the Congress, and
the Americans were on the defensive, and the British were
(17:20):
winning this battle. And this was Lafaya's first battle. This
nineteen year old boy, he saw the Americans pulling back
and he raced towards the soldiers who were retreating and said,
hold you round. I don't know how he said it
in English. He had been learning English on the boat
coming over. And he was shot in the leg, fell
(17:44):
to the ground, but they held the line. He was
rescued by Continental soldiers, and Washington heard he had been wounded,
and he protected him and sent him to Bethlehem, Pennsylvania,
to be healed by Marie settlers in Pennsylvania. That was
(18:04):
his first battle and it gave him a lifelong credibility
as the Frenchman who shed his blood for the American cause.
But he was later in other battles he returned, he
was at Valley Forge during the winter. He was at
the Battle of Monmouth Courthouse. The following year he was
at a Battle of Baron Hill where he was almost captured,
(18:28):
also near Philadelphia. But in seventeen seventy eight, after the
French American Alliance was signed, he went up to New
England to coordinate with the arrival of a French fleet
that was coming to Newport. That didn't go so well.
It didn't really lead to any success. But then in
(18:49):
seventeen seventy nine he went back to France and arranged
to help arrange with the French government to send an army,
and he was a key negotiator with Benjamin Franklin and
the Conte de Vergen, the foreign minister of France, to
convince the king to send an entire French army, which
(19:09):
they did in seventeen eighty.
Bob Crawford (19:11):
So Lafayette was pivotal in having the French enter the
war on the side of the Americans. Is that can
I say that? Is that?
Lloyd Kramer (19:22):
I wouldn't you be pivotabal? I mean a lot might
turn on that word. I think the French had their
own reasons, and this twenty year old boy wasn't the
decisive reason, but he was a major player. He corresponded
with Verzen, he worked closely with Franklin during that time.
When he went back to Paris in seventeen seventy nine,
(19:46):
he strongly advocated that the Americans could win. That was
something the French wondered about. And when things went badly
in America, he would write letters and say, these are
brave soldiers, they can do this, they can win. And
he helped to facilitate the French agreement to join the
(20:10):
army to join the war he helped. He hoped he
might be the commander himself, but the French government realized
they needed an experienced commander, and they appointed General Rochambeau,
who was a brilliant general and an important figure in
the success of the French army.
Bob Crawford (20:28):
And this culminates at Yorktown, where where we begin our conversation.
So what happens to Lafayette after the war? Like like,
what I never understood is why didn't he stay in
the United States. He is beloved at.
Lloyd Kramer (20:44):
This point, so of course he had married his wife,
Audrienne de Noa. The Lafayette was back in France. He
by this time had a child, George Washington Lafayette, and
he would he wanted to go back to his family,
you know. Plus he was ambitious. He wanted to make
(21:07):
a career in France. So he returned to France. After
the war. He made one more trip to America in
seventeen eighty four and took a tour around a number
of states and had a long visit with George Washington.
In fact, in the aftermath of that visit, he wrote
(21:27):
to Washington and proposed that they joined together in a
campaign to abolish slavery. This is the first moment of
Lafayette's advocacy of the abolition of slavery. And he said,
you know, my dear General, you could have a huge
impact if you freed your enslaved people. And I would
(21:52):
like to buy a plantation in French Guiana down in
South America, and I would do the same. We'll both
announce that we are freeing our slaves. And Washington said, well,
that's a great idea, but I don't think the time
is right. Lafayette himself went through with the plan. He
(22:13):
bought two farms in Guiana with enslaved workers and launched
a plan to train those enslaved workers and to free them.
But then when the French Revolution came in seventeen eighty nine,
the project had not been completed. He lost all his
land and he never succeeded in that project. But Lafayette
(22:35):
went back to France and became an advocate for human rights,
especially he joined the movement to abolish the slave trade.
He became an advocate for the rights of Protestant French
people who did not have equal civil rights. And then
when the French Revolution began in seventeen eighty nine, he
(22:57):
became the commander of the Parisian National Guard in seventeen
eighty nine. And I should just note one other great
contribution he made in the French Revolution. In the first stage,
he introduced the first proposal for the Declaration of the
Rights of Man and Citizen to the National Assembly in
(23:19):
July of seventeen eighty nine, and after the Bastille was
stormed by the crowd on July fourteenth, the French National
Assembly appointed him to be the first commander of the
Parisian National Guard.
Bob Crawford (23:38):
But something happens during the French Revolution unfortunate for Lafayette. Well.
Lloyd Kramer (23:44):
The problem Lafayette had was he he was a kind
of middle of the road person who wanted a constitutional monarchy.
He did not want an absolute monarchy, as some of
the conservative monarchists continued to want. But he was also
not in favor of a republic in France, as the
(24:06):
more radical Jacobins began to favor. Therefore, he managed to
alienate both the right wing and the left wing. I
think anybody who knows about how intense polarization can be
in politics can understand Lafayette was in the middle, and
he managed to alienate people on both sides. He demanded
(24:27):
more freedom for the people when he talked to the
monarchist and he demanded more law and order when he
talked to the radical revolutionaries.
Bob Crawford (24:37):
I think this is a good time to remind our listeners,
or to make them aware that if you want to
know the whole story of Lafayette, his time in America,
his time in France, his early life, his later life,
read Lloyd's book Lafayette in Two Worlds, Public Cultures and
Personal Identities in an Age of Revolutions. Also check out
(25:02):
Lafayette in the Somewhat United States by Sarah Vel, another
great book about Lafayette. Okay, let's jump ahead. This is
the moment I've been waiting for the whole interview, because
people last year went crazy in this country for Taylor
Swift's concert tour. They paid exorbitant sums of money. Well
(25:26):
two hundred years ago. I believed it was started in
eighteen twenty four, Fall of eighteen twenty four, something like that.
Lafayette returns to the United States after being away for
how long was he.
Lloyd Kramer (25:42):
Like, forty forty years?
Bob Crawford (25:44):
Forty years? He comes back. This is after the French Revolution,
after he's jailed, after all this, he comes back, and
he comes back with his son, George Washington Lafayette, and
he tours the United States and people went banana for him.
Tell us about this tour.
Lloyd Kramer (26:03):
Okay, let me just know very briefly that after two
or three years in the French Revolution, he had to
flee for his life. He was arrested by the Austrians.
He was thrown in prison for five years solitary confinement.
Napoleon Bonaparte ultimately helped him escape.
Bob Crawford (26:21):
He went back, Lloyd, is it true that when he
was in prison his wife went into prison with him
to take care of him.
Lloyd Kramer (26:29):
She left France and about the second or third year
of his imprisonment, getting out of prison herself where she
had been placed by the radicals, and she went to
his prison in Omutz in eastern what would be in
the Czech Republic now, and it was in the Austrian Empire,
and she stayed with him until he was freed. He
(26:52):
went back to France eventually, but he opposed Bonaparte because
he believed Bonaparte was an authoritarian, which he was, and
he refused to collaborate with Napoleon. After Napoleon fell from
favor or power, Lafayette became active again in French politics,
but he also lost his position in the Chamber of
(27:16):
Deputies in eighteen twenty four, and President James Monroe, knowing
about Lafayette's situation, invited him on behalf of the Congress
to make a return tour to America, in part because
Monroe wanted to say to the Europeans, this is the
man whose values, his commitment to rights, his belief in democracy,
(27:41):
his belief in human freedom. This is the man we
recognize an honor in America. And Lafayette came back in
eighteen twenty four because he was out of a job,
and he also wanted to make a political statement in Europe.
And as you say, his visit was like a too
of Taylor Swift or you know, the Beatles or the
(28:03):
Rolling Stones. He was a rock star.
Bob Crawford (28:08):
Hey. It's also interesting, Lloyd that if anyone who I prefer,
they're all they're all online. Go back to the Congressional Record,
all the different incarnations of the Congressional Globe, the Congressional
Record Register of debates. You go back to eighteen twenty three,
eighteen twenty four. The Congress is debating the money it's
(28:29):
going to cost to send the ships to go pick
up Lafaette and bring them here like it's all there,
and it's It was this incredibly in a very divided country,
right where eighteen twenty four were coming off of the
Missouri Compromise, which was incredibly divisive. We're coming off of
a global depression, you know, eighteen nineteen, there was a
(28:52):
terrible economic downturn, and this was a moment that kind
of brought the country together.
Lloyd Kramer (28:59):
Well it was, but it's amazing because he arrived in
New York in August of eighteen twenty four, and it
was the beginning. It was really when the presidential campaign
of eighteen twenty four was taking off. This is John
back to John Quincy Adams. This was the most divisive
campaign since eighteen hundred when Jefferson and John Adams and
(29:22):
the country was torn apart because Adams and Jackson represented
different regions of the country, different values. Adams the more
educated northeasterner, Jackson the populace from Tennessee. And the only
thing everybody could agree on was lafay It was a
great man and lafay I was very careful to remain nonpartisan.
(29:45):
He would greet people.
Bob Crawford (29:46):
Of all sides.
Lloyd Kramer (29:48):
He toured first in the northeast. He spent the winter
in Washington, and then he took a tour of the South.
And Lloyd went on, I got upstates.
Bob Crawford (29:57):
I got to respectfully interrupt you. He stayed in Washington.
He stays for a time. If I'm not mistaken, correct
me if I'm wrong. He stays in the President's House
now we call it the White House, and he and
his entourage stay in the President's House. And Louisa Catherine
Adams Junquini and his wife. She was ready for the
(30:18):
guests to you know, the house guests. You know, it's
fun to have people for a little while and then it's
time to go. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Lloyd Kramer (30:25):
And you know, it was a difficult thing because people
wanted to be around Lafaytte or wherever he went. It
wasn't just Lafayette. There were lots of people coming there.
So let me just say about why Lafayette had such
an impact. As I said, he had visited all twenty
four states, but wherever he went he gave kind of
(30:47):
the same speech. He said, first of all, that America
had shown how to have a successful revolution. These were
themes that were very important to the emergence of American
national identity. America had shown out to have a successful
revolution and to create a constitutional government in which people
(31:09):
abided by the laws and guidelines of a constitution. And
he said the success of this system was confirmed by
the prosperity and economic growth of the country. And he said,
I know that George Washington and the people who I
knew in the cottonal Army, they would approve of what
(31:30):
you have created. Now you can imagine what this meant
to people when the country was so polarized, so anxious.
It was the moment when the founding generation was passing away,
and here comes somebody, Is this a ghost from George
Washington's camp to say I knew George Washington and George
(31:54):
no General Washington, nobody called him.
Bob Crawford (31:57):
George.
Lloyd Kramer (31:57):
General Washington would be so please to see how this
country has grown.
Bob Crawford (32:04):
We've been talking with Lloyd Kramer, author of Lafayette in
Two Worlds, Public Cultures and Personal Identities in an Age
of Revolutions. Lloyd, thanks for joining us on American History Hotline.
Lloyd Kramer (32:18):
It's a great pleasure, and I hope people will continue
to explore the life of Lafayette. It's very important. Could
I recommend just one other book please. There's a book
by Mike Duncan called Hero of Two Worlds, The Marquis
de Lafayette in the Age of Revolution, and it's a
more recent biography, and I think it also provides a
(32:42):
lot of very helpful information. I would recommend that as
well well.
Bob Crawford (32:46):
When an author recommends another book on the same subject,
you take that recommendation. Plenty of great books now that
our listeners have been assigned to read and enjoy.
Lloyd Kramer (33:00):
Thank you so much, Thank you, Bob, and thanks for
what you're doing with this podcast. It's very important to
keep history in the public conversation.
Bob Crawford (33:10):
You've been listening to American History Hotline, a production of
iHeart Podcasts and Scratch Track Productions. The show's executive producer
is James Morrison. Our executive producers from iHeart are Jordan
Runtall and Jason English. Original music composed by me Bob Crawford.
Please keep in touch. Our email is Americanhistory Hotline at
(33:34):
gmail dot com. If you like the show, please tell
your friends and leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.
I'm your host, Bob Crawford. Feel free to hit me
up on social media to ask a history question for
to let me know what you think of the show.
You can find me at Bob Crawford Base. Thanks so
(33:54):
much for listening, See you next week. Put me after
the Plain
You've reached American History Hotline. You asked the questions, we
get the answers. Leave a message. Hey, there are American
History Hotliners. Your host, Bob Crawford here, happy to be
joining you again for another episode of American History Hotline.
You're the ones with the questions. I'm a guy trying
(00:24):
to get you some answers and keep those questions coming.
Our email is Americanhistory Hotline at gmail dot com. That's
Americanistory Hotline at gmail dot com. Extra points for sending
us a video or a voice memo of you asking
your question. Oh and normally I'd say let's keep this
(00:47):
question to this continent, but today is a bit of
a special case. We're talking about America's favorite fighting Frenchman.
That's right, Lafayette, the Marquee. I love Lafayette. He is
one of these great figures from American history. We're gonna
(01:07):
get into it. I don't want to spoil it because
we have an amazing guest to talk about Lafayette. But
I gotta say there is a Lafayette John Quincy Adam's connection.
We'll talk about that later. And you know, JQA is
my favorite here to help me answer this question about
Lafayette Today is Lloyd Kramer, author of the book Lafayette
(01:28):
in Two Worlds, Public Cultures and Personal Identities in an
Age of Revolutions. Lloyd, thanks for joining me today.
Lloyd Kramer (01:37):
Well, thank you, Bob. I'm very happy to be here.
Bob Crawford (01:40):
Okay, Lloyd, here's the question we were hoping you could
help us answer.
Philippe (01:44):
Hi, this is Flip in Paris. I love the characterization
of Lafayette in the music in Hamilton, and I learned
it's all about him in historic class, but I don't
actually know much about him. Who was the real Marquis
de Lafayette and why did he fight with the Americans
during the Revolutionary War?
Bob Crawford (02:04):
Lloyd, I want to start a little cinematically here with
some action. Can you set the scene by dropping us
into the Battle of York Town and what the Marquis
de Lafayette was doing during that battle?
Lloyd Kramer (02:21):
Well, the Battle of Yorktown would have been the culmination
of his American experience in October of seventeen eighty one,
but it exemplifies his values, his style, and his success.
He had been sent to Virginia in the spring of
seventeen eighty one to capture General Benedict Arnold, who was
(02:46):
by then fighting with the British. He never was able
to capture Arnold, but he had a small detachment of
troops and he began tracking the British army. When General
Cornwallis came into Virginia later that year, he fought with
him as a kind of guerrilla commander and ended up
at Yorktown and said to General Washington, I have him trapped.
(03:12):
Bring the French army under General Rochambeau and your army,
and we have the British captured here at Yorktown.
Bob Crawford (03:22):
In Yorktown, there was this relationship. That's where a lot
of us know, that relationship between Hamilton and Lafayette. They
had this Alexander Hamilton of course in the Marquis de Lafayette.
They were both like sons to General Washington. Correct, that's correct.
Lloyd Kramer (03:40):
That you could even say there was a little rivalry
between the two of them as to which one Washington
would like best or support the most.
Bob Crawford (03:49):
And okay, you go ahead.
Lloyd Kramer (03:51):
Well, I would just say Yorktown was one of the
places where they ended up together. Because, of course Hamilton
had been eager to have a more active military role.
He had often done a lot of secretarial work for Washington,
and they were both involved, Lafayette and Hamilton in the
command of troops that were to storm the redoubts that
(04:13):
surrounded the British position in Yorktown. And I would just
say one additional thing about that. Lafayette wanted to command,
but he let Hamilton take the lead in the storming
of one of the redoubts at Yorktown. And I think
Hamilton appreciated that about Lafayette's generosity, and we might say
(04:34):
that was a key to Lafayette's success in the American Revolution.
Unlike many Europeans, many French people, he was always deferential
to his American friends, starting above all with George Washington,
whom he said, I want to listen to you. I
don't want to tell you what to do. But he
got along with Americans so well because he had a
(04:55):
style that was congenial, supportive, and the style of the listener,
rather than someone who just told people this is what
you should do.
Bob Crawford (05:04):
What a lesson for life. You're young and you get
out of school and you start working somewhere, and I
remember being told by someone who said, you do your best.
You soak up what we tell you like a sponge
and other people will brag for you. They will they
will sing your praises. You just listen to whatever people
(05:25):
want to teach. Okay, let's let's get back to the
beginning for the Marquis. What first of all, what was
the Marquis de Lafayette's real name? Can you remember the
whole thing?
Lloyd Kramer (05:37):
Well, the whole name was something like Giubette de Mottier.
Anyway he was. He was always called Givett. That was
his name, Giuvette de de Marquis de Lafayette, Marie Joseph
de Maatier de Lafayette, you know, something like that. I
should know. I've written the whole book about him, But
(05:59):
nobody called him by his whole name, although he was
called Gibert by his close family, but the Americans just
always called him the Marquis de Lafayette or General Lafayette.
And his family was from He was from an old
aristocratic family in central France, an area called Ouvergne, which
(06:19):
is near Clermont Feron in central France. His father had
been a military officer in the French army, and he
was killed when young Lafayette Jiubert was only two years old.
He never knew his father. His father was killed during
the Seven Years' War in a Battle of Mendon by
(06:40):
a British military unit. So Lafayette grew up never knowing
his father.
Bob Crawford (06:46):
How did Lafayette get into military service.
Lloyd Kramer (06:50):
So Lafayette lived till he was about ten or twelve
down in the countryside there in the South's family was
from the other parts of France, and she took him
to Paris. She died when he was only about twelve
years old. So by the time he before he was
(07:12):
a teenager, Lafayette had lost both his parents. But because
of his mother's wealth, he inherited a whole lot of money.
He was one of the richest boys in all of France.
And there was a wealthy, influential family called the Noe family.
They had five daughters. They needed a wealthy young man.
(07:34):
They ranged through family members that these two people, Lafayette
and Adrienne, would be married and they had a family regiment,
And so he became a command of an officer in
the Noe family regiment. He had already been in the
military a bit, but then he became an officer in
(07:56):
their family regiment.
Bob Crawford (07:58):
I was watching the Ben Franklin see on Apple TV
and Lafayette is a prominent character. He's portrayed as a
young military mind looking for a cause he wanted to fight.
Is that accurate?
Lloyd Kramer (08:11):
I think he wanted to be famous. You know, this
is an interesting psychological question. What made this young frenchman
differ from other people of his class and his community.
He had studied the writings of Plutarch. I don't know
if people are so familiar with Plutarch now, but Plutarch
(08:33):
was an ancient writer who had written the lives of
Greek and Roman heroes, great political and military leaders, and
he had shown Plutarch had shown that noble, virtuous service
was the way to get a public reputation. And he
was an influential author for people of Lafayette's generation and
(08:57):
the noble class. And I think this inspired Lafayette. He
wanted to be famous from an early age, but there
he was. He joined this family regiment and went off
to eastern France, the city of Mets and Mets in
the east, and for several years he was just a
young boy without too much prospect except to be another
(09:21):
officer in a French regiment on the frontier. But he
dreamed of being famous.
Bob Crawford (09:29):
So how did he actually get involved in the American Revolution.
Lloyd Kramer (09:34):
So this is one of the most interesting things. He
was out there in eastern France at a French military base,
and in the late summer of seventeen seventy five, and
remember Lafayette was not even eighteen years old at that time.
The brother of the King of England came through on
(09:55):
a tour visiting various sites in Europe, and he happened
to under this base, and the commander at the base
or other officers invited Lafayette to have dinner with this
brother of the King, George of England. And this brother,
the Duke of Gloucester, was critical of his brother. He
actually sympathized with the Americans. He said, I think the
(10:17):
Americans have some good ideas. I don't know why we're
trying to defeat them. Over there, the Revolution had just
started Battle of Bunker Hill, and Lafayette was fascinated by this.
He had also just joined Lafayette had just joined the Freemasons,
where he had begun to hear about ideas like liberty
(10:38):
or the value of reason. And the combination of his
education about great Roman heroes, the Freemasons, and then the
stories of the Duke of Gloucester fascinated him, and he
decided he wanted to get involved somehow in the American Revolution.
(10:58):
But how to do it was the problem?
Bob Crawford (11:01):
Okay, so what was yeah? So how did he do it?
What was the American response?
Philippe (11:06):
Like?
Bob Crawford (11:07):
What did they think of him when he showed up?
Lloyd Kramer (11:11):
So, first of all, how do you get to America
if you happened to be in the French army, which
has no relationship with America At that time, there was
an American agent in Paris named Silas Dean who had
been sent by the Continental Congress to recruit officers and
gain support from the French government. But of course the
(11:33):
French were not officially at war with England, so they
couldn't support what Dean was doing.
Bob Crawford (11:39):
And this is seventeen.
Lloyd Kramer (11:42):
This was now. Dean arrived in December of seventeen seventy six,
and Lafayette began negotiating with him very shortly after that.
So Dean knew that Lafayette's family, the Noae family, was
very influential, very powerful, and therefore he would be a
(12:02):
good recruit. And one of the officers whom Dean had
met told Dean about Lafayette Lafayette went to Paris secretly
met with Dean. Dean promised him a position of major general.
By this, you know, a nineteen year old boy at
this point, If you go to America, you can be
a major general in the army. But of course there
(12:23):
was no way for him to get there. So Lafayette
secretly bought his own ship, a ship called the Victoire,
and worked out a plan with some other officers who
also wanted to escape and go to America, And in
April of seventeen seventy seven, carrying a letter from Silas
Dean offering him a commission in the army, he sailed
(12:47):
to America and landed near Charleston in June of seventeen
seventy seven, nineteen years old.
Bob Crawford (12:59):
This is the French I mean American History Hotline. I'm
your host Bob Crawford. Today my guest is Lloyd Kramer,
author of the book Lafayette in Two Worlds, Public Cultures
and Personal Identities in an Age of Revolutions. Today we're
talking about the Marquis de Lafayette, a man who joined
(13:20):
the ranks of one named celebrities like Cher and Bono.
To US Americans, he's simply Lafayette. Before we get back
to the conversation, we want your help. Record yourself using
the voice memo app on your phone and email it
to Americanistoryhotline at gmail dot com. That's American History Hotline
(13:41):
at gmail dot com. Now back to the show, Lloyd. Okay,
so Lafayette comes to the United States. He is a
nineteen year old major general. Take us back to the
first meeting between him and Washington.
Lloyd Kramer (13:58):
Okay, Dan, you here, Ry. I was in Charleston with
a promise that he can be a major general. But
he's not yet a major general. He travels over land.
It took about four or five weeks, maybe more, to
get to Philadelphia. He goes to the Continental Congress in
the summer of seventeen seventy seven and says, here, I
(14:20):
am to be a major general. And the Congress just
looked at the letter and said, great, but we don't
need you. He at first was rebuffed. But about that time,
by this time, Franklin, Benjamin Franklin, was in Paris and
he wrote a letter, and the Congress got the letter,
and Franklin said, this guy Lafayette, whom he had met briefly,
(14:42):
this guy Lafayette has important family members, you ought to
take him seriously. Lafayette then went to somehow he was
able to meet George Washington at the City Tavern in
Philadelphia in late August, and they immediately connected. And Washington
and also decided because he had heard about Lafayette's family,
(15:04):
especially as in laws, and Washington said, okay, we'll make
you a major general. Congress approves it, but you will
get no pay. So Lafayette served in the entire Revolutionary
War as an unpaid major general in the Continental Army.
Bob Crawford (15:22):
So so my image of Washington is he's a tough guy.
He's not going to smile. He will take a lot
to impress him or catch his eye or his ear.
How did Lafayette do it?
Lloyd Kramer (15:38):
I mean, do we know, well, you know, there's been
a lot of speculation about Washington's attraction to Lafayette. We know,
of course that Washington had no son. He had a
step son, but he had never had a son. And
we know that Lafayette had no father. Remember, Lafayette's father
died when he was two years old, and the age
(16:01):
differential made them a kind of father son connection. And
Lafayette from the beginning conveyed to Washington that he was
there to help, to listen, to support the cause, and
not to tell anybody what to do. Washington was a
realist who knew that the Americans needed the help of
(16:23):
powerful people in France. He was also a human being
who warned to Lafayette's personal style, to Lafayette's willingness to listen,
and to Lafayette's energy and ambition. So Washington and Lafayette
formed an incredible bond that never broke for the rest
(16:46):
of their lives.
Bob Crawford (16:47):
Tell us about some of the notable battles that Lafayette.
I knew, we already talked about your town a little bit.
But what were some of the notable battles that Lafayette
fought in and how did he perform?
Lloyd Kramer (17:00):
So his first important battle was at Brandywine, just literally
a couple of weeks after he had joined as a
major general. This was outside Philadelphia. The British were coming
to Philadelphia to try to drive out the Congress, and
the Americans were on the defensive, and the British were
(17:20):
winning this battle. And this was Lafaya's first battle. This
nineteen year old boy, he saw the Americans pulling back
and he raced towards the soldiers who were retreating and said,
hold you round. I don't know how he said it
in English. He had been learning English on the boat
coming over. And he was shot in the leg, fell
(17:44):
to the ground, but they held the line. He was
rescued by Continental soldiers, and Washington heard he had been wounded,
and he protected him and sent him to Bethlehem, Pennsylvania,
to be healed by Marie settlers in Pennsylvania. That was
(18:04):
his first battle and it gave him a lifelong credibility
as the Frenchman who shed his blood for the American cause.
But he was later in other battles he returned, he
was at Valley Forge during the winter. He was at
the Battle of Monmouth Courthouse. The following year he was
at a Battle of Baron Hill where he was almost captured,
(18:28):
also near Philadelphia. But in seventeen seventy eight, after the
French American Alliance was signed, he went up to New
England to coordinate with the arrival of a French fleet
that was coming to Newport. That didn't go so well.
It didn't really lead to any success. But then in
(18:49):
seventeen seventy nine he went back to France and arranged
to help arrange with the French government to send an army,
and he was a key negotiator with Benjamin Franklin and
the Conte de Vergen, the foreign minister of France, to
convince the king to send an entire French army, which
(19:09):
they did in seventeen eighty.
Bob Crawford (19:11):
So Lafayette was pivotal in having the French enter the
war on the side of the Americans. Is that can
I say that? Is that?
Lloyd Kramer (19:22):
I wouldn't you be pivotabal? I mean a lot might
turn on that word. I think the French had their
own reasons, and this twenty year old boy wasn't the
decisive reason, but he was a major player. He corresponded
with Verzen, he worked closely with Franklin during that time.
When he went back to Paris in seventeen seventy nine,
(19:46):
he strongly advocated that the Americans could win. That was
something the French wondered about. And when things went badly
in America, he would write letters and say, these are
brave soldiers, they can do this, they can win. And
he helped to facilitate the French agreement to join the
(20:10):
army to join the war he helped. He hoped he
might be the commander himself, but the French government realized
they needed an experienced commander, and they appointed General Rochambeau,
who was a brilliant general and an important figure in
the success of the French army.
Bob Crawford (20:28):
And this culminates at Yorktown, where where we begin our conversation.
So what happens to Lafayette after the war? Like like,
what I never understood is why didn't he stay in
the United States. He is beloved at.
Lloyd Kramer (20:44):
This point, so of course he had married his wife,
Audrienne de Noa. The Lafayette was back in France. He
by this time had a child, George Washington Lafayette, and
he would he wanted to go back to his family,
you know. Plus he was ambitious. He wanted to make
(21:07):
a career in France. So he returned to France. After
the war. He made one more trip to America in
seventeen eighty four and took a tour around a number
of states and had a long visit with George Washington.
In fact, in the aftermath of that visit, he wrote
(21:27):
to Washington and proposed that they joined together in a
campaign to abolish slavery. This is the first moment of
Lafayette's advocacy of the abolition of slavery. And he said,
you know, my dear General, you could have a huge
impact if you freed your enslaved people. And I would
(21:52):
like to buy a plantation in French Guiana down in
South America, and I would do the same. We'll both
announce that we are freeing our slaves. And Washington said, well,
that's a great idea, but I don't think the time
is right. Lafayette himself went through with the plan. He
(22:13):
bought two farms in Guiana with enslaved workers and launched
a plan to train those enslaved workers and to free them.
But then when the French Revolution came in seventeen eighty nine,
the project had not been completed. He lost all his
land and he never succeeded in that project. But Lafayette
(22:35):
went back to France and became an advocate for human rights,
especially he joined the movement to abolish the slave trade.
He became an advocate for the rights of Protestant French
people who did not have equal civil rights. And then
when the French Revolution began in seventeen eighty nine, he
(22:57):
became the commander of the Parisian National Guard in seventeen
eighty nine. And I should just note one other great
contribution he made in the French Revolution. In the first stage,
he introduced the first proposal for the Declaration of the
Rights of Man and Citizen to the National Assembly in
(23:19):
July of seventeen eighty nine, and after the Bastille was
stormed by the crowd on July fourteenth, the French National
Assembly appointed him to be the first commander of the
Parisian National Guard.
Bob Crawford (23:38):
But something happens during the French Revolution unfortunate for Lafayette. Well.
Lloyd Kramer (23:44):
The problem Lafayette had was he he was a kind
of middle of the road person who wanted a constitutional monarchy.
He did not want an absolute monarchy, as some of
the conservative monarchists continued to want. But he was also
not in favor of a republic in France, as the
(24:06):
more radical Jacobins began to favor. Therefore, he managed to
alienate both the right wing and the left wing. I
think anybody who knows about how intense polarization can be
in politics can understand Lafayette was in the middle, and
he managed to alienate people on both sides. He demanded
(24:27):
more freedom for the people when he talked to the
monarchist and he demanded more law and order when he
talked to the radical revolutionaries.
Bob Crawford (24:37):
I think this is a good time to remind our listeners,
or to make them aware that if you want to
know the whole story of Lafayette, his time in America,
his time in France, his early life, his later life,
read Lloyd's book Lafayette in Two Worlds, Public Cultures and
Personal Identities in an Age of Revolutions. Also check out
(25:02):
Lafayette in the Somewhat United States by Sarah Vel, another
great book about Lafayette. Okay, let's jump ahead. This is
the moment I've been waiting for the whole interview, because
people last year went crazy in this country for Taylor
Swift's concert tour. They paid exorbitant sums of money. Well
(25:26):
two hundred years ago. I believed it was started in
eighteen twenty four, Fall of eighteen twenty four, something like that.
Lafayette returns to the United States after being away for
how long was he.
Lloyd Kramer (25:42):
Like, forty forty years?
Bob Crawford (25:44):
Forty years? He comes back. This is after the French Revolution,
after he's jailed, after all this, he comes back, and
he comes back with his son, George Washington Lafayette, and
he tours the United States and people went banana for him.
Tell us about this tour.
Lloyd Kramer (26:03):
Okay, let me just know very briefly that after two
or three years in the French Revolution, he had to
flee for his life. He was arrested by the Austrians.
He was thrown in prison for five years solitary confinement.
Napoleon Bonaparte ultimately helped him escape.
Bob Crawford (26:21):
He went back, Lloyd, is it true that when he
was in prison his wife went into prison with him
to take care of him.
Lloyd Kramer (26:29):
She left France and about the second or third year
of his imprisonment, getting out of prison herself where she
had been placed by the radicals, and she went to
his prison in Omutz in eastern what would be in
the Czech Republic now, and it was in the Austrian Empire,
and she stayed with him until he was freed. He
(26:52):
went back to France eventually, but he opposed Bonaparte because
he believed Bonaparte was an authoritarian, which he was, and
he refused to collaborate with Napoleon. After Napoleon fell from
favor or power, Lafayette became active again in French politics,
but he also lost his position in the Chamber of
(27:16):
Deputies in eighteen twenty four, and President James Monroe, knowing
about Lafayette's situation, invited him on behalf of the Congress
to make a return tour to America, in part because
Monroe wanted to say to the Europeans, this is the
man whose values, his commitment to rights, his belief in democracy,
(27:41):
his belief in human freedom. This is the man we
recognize an honor in America. And Lafayette came back in
eighteen twenty four because he was out of a job,
and he also wanted to make a political statement in Europe.
And as you say, his visit was like a too
of Taylor Swift or you know, the Beatles or the
(28:03):
Rolling Stones. He was a rock star.
Bob Crawford (28:08):
Hey. It's also interesting, Lloyd that if anyone who I prefer,
they're all they're all online. Go back to the Congressional Record,
all the different incarnations of the Congressional Globe, the Congressional
Record Register of debates. You go back to eighteen twenty three,
eighteen twenty four. The Congress is debating the money it's
(28:29):
going to cost to send the ships to go pick
up Lafaette and bring them here like it's all there,
and it's It was this incredibly in a very divided country,
right where eighteen twenty four were coming off of the
Missouri Compromise, which was incredibly divisive. We're coming off of
a global depression, you know, eighteen nineteen, there was a
(28:52):
terrible economic downturn, and this was a moment that kind
of brought the country together.
Lloyd Kramer (28:59):
Well it was, but it's amazing because he arrived in
New York in August of eighteen twenty four, and it
was the beginning. It was really when the presidential campaign
of eighteen twenty four was taking off. This is John
back to John Quincy Adams. This was the most divisive
campaign since eighteen hundred when Jefferson and John Adams and
(29:22):
the country was torn apart because Adams and Jackson represented
different regions of the country, different values. Adams the more
educated northeasterner, Jackson the populace from Tennessee. And the only
thing everybody could agree on was lafay It was a
great man and lafay I was very careful to remain nonpartisan.
(29:45):
He would greet people.
Bob Crawford (29:46):
Of all sides.
Lloyd Kramer (29:48):
He toured first in the northeast. He spent the winter
in Washington, and then he took a tour of the South.
And Lloyd went on, I got upstates.
Bob Crawford (29:57):
I got to respectfully interrupt you. He stayed in Washington.
He stays for a time. If I'm not mistaken, correct
me if I'm wrong. He stays in the President's House
now we call it the White House, and he and
his entourage stay in the President's House. And Louisa Catherine
Adams Junquini and his wife. She was ready for the
(30:18):
guests to you know, the house guests. You know, it's
fun to have people for a little while and then it's
time to go. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Lloyd Kramer (30:25):
And you know, it was a difficult thing because people
wanted to be around Lafaytte or wherever he went. It
wasn't just Lafayette. There were lots of people coming there.
So let me just say about why Lafayette had such
an impact. As I said, he had visited all twenty
four states, but wherever he went he gave kind of
(30:47):
the same speech. He said, first of all, that America
had shown how to have a successful revolution. These were
themes that were very important to the emergence of American
national identity. America had shown out to have a successful
revolution and to create a constitutional government in which people
(31:09):
abided by the laws and guidelines of a constitution. And
he said the success of this system was confirmed by
the prosperity and economic growth of the country. And he said,
I know that George Washington and the people who I
knew in the cottonal Army, they would approve of what
(31:30):
you have created. Now you can imagine what this meant
to people when the country was so polarized, so anxious.
It was the moment when the founding generation was passing away,
and here comes somebody, Is this a ghost from George
Washington's camp to say I knew George Washington and George
(31:54):
no General Washington, nobody called him.
Bob Crawford (31:57):
George.
Lloyd Kramer (31:57):
General Washington would be so please to see how this
country has grown.
Bob Crawford (32:04):
We've been talking with Lloyd Kramer, author of Lafayette in
Two Worlds, Public Cultures and Personal Identities in an Age
of Revolutions. Lloyd, thanks for joining us on American History Hotline.
Lloyd Kramer (32:18):
It's a great pleasure, and I hope people will continue
to explore the life of Lafayette. It's very important. Could
I recommend just one other book please. There's a book
by Mike Duncan called Hero of Two Worlds, The Marquis
de Lafayette in the Age of Revolution, and it's a
more recent biography, and I think it also provides a
(32:42):
lot of very helpful information. I would recommend that as
well well.
Bob Crawford (32:46):
When an author recommends another book on the same subject,
you take that recommendation. Plenty of great books now that
our listeners have been assigned to read and enjoy.
Lloyd Kramer (33:00):
Thank you so much, Thank you, Bob, and thanks for
what you're doing with this podcast. It's very important to
keep history in the public conversation.
Bob Crawford (33:10):
You've been listening to American History Hotline, a production of
iHeart Podcasts and Scratch Track Productions. The show's executive producer
is James Morrison. Our executive producers from iHeart are Jordan
Runtall and Jason English. Original music composed by me Bob Crawford.
Please keep in touch. Our email is Americanhistory Hotline at
(33:34):
gmail dot com. If you like the show, please tell
your friends and leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.
I'm your host, Bob Crawford. Feel free to hit me
up on social media to ask a history question for
to let me know what you think of the show.
You can find me at Bob Crawford Base. Thanks so
(33:54):
much for listening, See you next week. Put me after
the Plain
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.