January 23, 2024 • 47 mins
T.J. knew something was up with Amy, so he surprised her at his home with microphones set up for a podcast.
After a lot of thought, they both agreed to work out their latest issues and share what actually happened by recording their conversation.
It's raw and it's real and relatable for anyone in a relationship.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey, folks, Amy and TJ here doing a bit of
a surprise podcast. We weren't expecting to record one today,
so it's going to be a surprise to our iHeart
team that even we have this podcast. And it's even
a surprise to Robot, who is sitting here next to me,
not in studio. We are in our living room right now.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Well, I'm surprised, and I still don't even know what
to expect. You sent me a text and asked, so
my youngest, who seventeen, is driving, and so she dropped.
She drove Ava and I to the airport where I
said goodbye to her moments ago, and Annalise was driving.
So I was able to respond to you when you
(00:46):
texted me and said, can Analse drop you off at
my place?
Speaker 1 (00:52):
You know? Or I'm telling you now. I invited you
and I want you to come by because we ain't
right You and I aren't okay right now. I said,
you know what, let's set up and do a podcast.
Both of us just posted our first TikTok videos in
the past twenty four hours. It's the first time I
have actually seen comments on social media in a year
(01:14):
plus because of hasn't been on social media, and I
had comments off and a number of comments that I'm
reading calling us a cute, positive stuff, but a cute couple.
I'm sure you've seen some of this stuff, but people
are supportive and complementary, and you guys look so happy
and all of these things. And in reading that today,
(01:37):
at least, I felt like a fraud. Because you can
say it the way, or you put it in the
terms you want to put it in. But what you
can say, what you said with the phone to me,
or you can put it in whatever terms, but what
the past couple of days have felt like for us.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
So we have been working on this podcast since summer,
and I've always said that expectations are absolutely a case
for suffering. So I continually have to remind myself and
try to remove them from my head. But when you
start working hard and digging in. And I have always
(02:18):
been fully confident in our ability to work together on
television or in whatever some sort of broadcasting capacity is
what we do. We're good at it, we're good at
it together. What we haven't, what I haven't done as
much of in my career, is be responsible for content, booking, ratings,
(02:44):
whatever it's downloads here. But the pressure of all of that,
I think has consumed both of us, and so we
have always been able to work together and enjoy it profusely,
have our downtime and our fun together, and it's just
been kind of our rhythm, even as friends, but especially
(03:06):
in this romantic relationship, and even when we were hunkering
down last year, we were in it together. And in
the last few days, I just think we're spending hours
and hours side by side working on things. We work differently,
We've discovered when it comes to brainstorming, coming up with ideas,
(03:28):
thinking about guests, thinking about content, I like to talk
it out and brainstorm and throw things out and up,
and you like to quietly do your thing by yourself.
And so what we've ended up doing is sitting in
silence for hours next to each other, and it's exhausting.
(03:48):
I'm not great at that, and there's obviously with everything
else going on in my life. It just I have
felt extremely disconnected from you. And I'm somebody who, yeah,
I think, especially when I feel the way I do.
I have realized that I do want and need and
(04:15):
prefer physical touch, words of affirmation communication. So when I'm
sitting next to somebody who I know we're both working hard,
but I feel is completely emotionally removed from our relationship.
So it's the struggle of yes, we're we've always worked
together and gotten along, but this is a different kind
(04:37):
of working together, And so the last few days I've
felt disconnected to you.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I said, there were two reasons I wanted to set
this up, and all the reason this was on my mind.
One had to do with the seeing all the positive
comments and everyone so complimentary of us and us in
pictures and look so happy, which we are, that is
not a question of it. The second thing that made
me want to set this up, you know, I had
breakfast with a friend of mine today, and that friend
of mine happens to have two divorces under his belt
(05:09):
and is on his third marriage. And we had a
conversation in which there was a comfort or relief of
camaraderie in that life experience that we now have both
gone through and can understand. And he was speaking about
us and our relationship and our podcast in such a
way that he appreciated and things other people appreciate. Knowing
(05:33):
that other people are in that struggle or have been
through that and there's not shame and you're not alone.
So with that being said, and I saw the complimentary
things being said about us, and like I said, I
felt like a fraud just for today and that we
talk about this is a place where we're going to
be open and honest and have an ability to be authentic.
(05:54):
On this podcast. We joke, we play, people hear us laugh,
and we're getting along perfectly all the time on the podcast.
But there is now a moment of, well why not
share and be that authentic that we say we're going
to be, Not because we're trying to air out some
dirty laundry, but there is a comfort I believe, I
(06:18):
certainly have it in knowing that somebody else shares in
that same struggle. Most people can't relate to all the
fun we have and the smiles we have and the
trips we take and the things we get to do.
I can't relate to that. Look at it and go wow,
they look happy, and we are. But there is an
authenticity and a connective tissue to us all when it
(06:40):
comes to relationships and the struggle those relationships bringing. And
right now we're in a little bit of a struggle
and we've been there for several days, and so if
we want to be what relatable or even an example,
then if we're going to talk about all the highs
and how great we're doing and the joy and the love,
(07:01):
and if we're going to do that, then I thought, well,
why not now do this? And that's why I had
you come over, because we're going to make it through
this what we're dealing with now, and usually we have to.
I mean, we might be in a fight and then
(07:22):
have to go to the studio and do a show
together and do an interview and just have to pretend
like we're okay even if we're not. We haven't had
to do that yet, but I'm saying there, this is
this is an opportunity to show that we are not
okay sometimes and this is how we get through it.
I'm not good at this, talked about it with doctor Guardia.
(07:45):
It takes me a couple of days sometimes, so I
am trying as well. But this was this was a
I've been talking authenticity a lot lately and today and
a couple of happenings really put me in the place tok,
you know, why not and let's go talk about it
and that's supposed to be the point of the podcast, and.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I think that when we set out on this path,
I was actually having a conversation with my seventeen year
old Annalise and then Ava's good friend Montgomery, who you
mentioned in TikTok because she's marketing major and has been
helping us with social media. She's actually the person who
encouraged me. And I think you too, to turn comments
back on to get on TikTok, to really embrace this
(08:37):
podcast and what we're trying to accomplish, which is to
do what we love to do, which is to share,
and to not only share our story, but others stories,
and hopefully I think we talked about what we wanted
our podcast to be. I know, for me, yes, entertainment
is a huge part of it. I love to entertain,
but I also want to inspire and I want to
(08:59):
be transparent, and I've talked a lot about living my
truth and so this is part of it. So I
am fine having these conversations because there isn't a couple
out there who doesn't and so yes, I don't, and
I know you don't want to put on some false
narrative that somehow we're the perfect couple and we found
our true love and that means we never fight and
(09:21):
we always get along and things are rosy and great.
No they're not. And even as much as we know
each other more than most people who have been in
a relationship for over a year, we've known each other
for a decade now pretty much, and we know each
other really, really well, it doesn't mean that we still don't. Like,
I'm learning things about you every day as we're We've
always worked together, but working with this kind of pressure
(09:42):
over our heads is a whole other thing where Yeah,
I'm just saying that pressure is a lot.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Oh are you talking about the work pressure or the
pressure now publicly for us to succeed as a couple.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Oh see, I don't. I don't feel the pressure from
the public to stay with you. I know that I
know you well enough and I've spend enough time with you,
and I knew how I felt. And love sometimes is
a choice. When it's hard, it's not just a feeling.
Lust is a feeling, but love is a choice, I believe,
and I have chosen to love you, So I don't
feel pressure from the public to be with you. I
(10:14):
would be devastated just personally because I want to be
with you and I chose you, but I feel the
pressure of our careers that I believe.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
We're unfairly taken from us, and I really want to
be able to do what I love and I want
to be able to do it with you. So that's
more the pressure I feel. And funny enough, you talk
about the.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Comments, So this is the first time I've really read
the comments as well, and the TikTok thing has been amazing.
Like I would say, ninety five percent of them are positive,
but the negative ones sting and they hurt, and I
was I've been angry at the cancel culture mentality that
(11:09):
people think they know the story and then they just
throw barbs at you and they call you names, and
it's I'm not trying to say, poor me, whoya wow w.
There are so many people who have gone through this,
not just publicly but just personally. If you do something
that people don't like or they think is wrong, or
they think they know what happens, you know, no one
knows what happens in someone else's marriage, No one knows
(11:33):
what happens in your private life except for you. And
so just to see the unbelievable. Judgment is kind of
overwhelming still more than a year later, and I just
I sometimes get discouraged at people's unwillingness to either suspend
judgment or to just feel better about themselves by making
(11:54):
you into the villain for whatever reason they need to
do it. So even Annaly's actually got on to tick
Took yesterday and started deleting all the bad comments because
they didn't want me to see them.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Look, we can handle anything if you and I are okay.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
When you and I are not okay, it's the end
of the world. We went through a year of our
relationship strengthened because we were like the whole world it
felt like was against us, but I had you and
I was okay.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I mean that entire year was as good a relationship
as anyone could imagine, not just under the circumstances, but
we were great. We're in this position now, all that
pressure you're talking about, the work pressure, the public pressure,
everything's been going on family wise for a long time.
That turned a corner and everything has been great the
(12:48):
past month. But to now you and I for the
past several it feels like the end of the world.
And so I mean, I'm asking you, what are you
willing or are you waiting to let this cycle through?
Or was this just a weird stretch of time because
we haven't been together the past several nights just because
(13:11):
of schedules and things have happened, we haven't spent as
much time together, and the time we spent together was
spent working, So all of that feels different. So is
it that just going to go away once we get
back in the regular routine or whatever it may be.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
No, I mean, I think we need to talk about
our different approaches to our feelings. If I'm feeling m
just you and I aren't on the same wavelength, it's
devastating to me, so.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Well on the same page about how we're feeling. What
are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Well? Oh, because I just think how we communicate with
each other, like what I need versus what you need?
What you might not realize hurts me. I might I
say things or do things that I don't realize hurt you,
and I I think we have to be more open
about communicating what we need to feel supported, even when
it's tough, even when it's tense, even when we're in
(14:11):
our own zones.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Basically, but where is But where did that happen? Where
did that happen today? That you had? You said communication
with you one hundred percent, But we lost communication when
I knew something. And I'm speaking from my perspective here
and you have a different one on how I might
have been behaving as well, but you were, you were
(14:32):
I knew something was up and you wouldn't tell me
what it was. When on the phone today, over and over,
I asked, what's up? You just don't want to tell me,
So what's going on? So at that point I stopped probing.
I know you were completely silenced, not speaking one word answers.
There was nothing to it, and we are talking about
(14:53):
it now. That was how many hours ago? I mean
we didn't get it out until we got microphones in
front of us.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Now, well, I didn't even know that this was going
to happen.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Well I know that, but I'm saying, but why did
Why are we talking about it now and not talking
about it when you said you knew you had a problem,
You knew you had an issue, and you didn't communicate
it to me.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Well, I because I was in an emotional state about Ava,
and I just felt like there were so many things
that I was feeling. I wanted to make sure that
I had the space to recognize why I was feeling
what I was feeling. I really wanted to just be
able to put a space between those two things.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And what do you think now? There a space between?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yeah, between the emotions, like, I don't know if one
is impacting the other. Do you know what I mean? Like,
I don't. I'm feeling emotional about Ava, So I'm just
in an emotional place right now.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Okay, you're suggesting that what's going on with you and
I is just a byproduct of what's happening with Ava.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
So.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
What I'm saying is two things can happen at the
same time, and the emotions from one can overwhelm the
other and make it more than it should be. I
wanted to be able to really think about why I
was feeling what I was feeling, and how much of
my emotions around Eva or We're adding to how I
was feeling. That's what I wanted to make sure I
was doing. And I didn't want to just break down
(16:18):
and cry. I wanted to think about it.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
So what does that actually mean? Because I often end
up in this place with you in these conversations to
where I think we're dealing with one thing and you
explain it in a such a way and it's like, oh,
this is not that.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I just don't I just don't want to overreact. That's
all because I'm feeling emotional.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Okay, you think you have, I mean you.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
No, I don't think I've overreacted.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Why didn't you speak to me freely on the phone.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Because I was crying. I just didn't want to cry
on the phone.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Okay, Well you're talking to me like it's nothing right,
you're talking to me now, I do I And yeah,
I know this sounds familiar to you because I've talked
about it before, like wow, this is the thing we're
talking about, and now now it ends up getting spent
in such a way that I don't know what the
problem is.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I just I think for me, I just I don't
like spending days not talking to you or being in
the same room with you and they're being silenced that
it just it throws me. It's not something I'm used
to and it scares me.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
But you say it often, do you. But it always
feels like you put the onus on me for it.
There is what can be done or what can you
do in that situation now, But I always feel like
the onus is on me to control the room to
it because you say it to me like that, like
you didn't say anything and you were on your phone,
and it often comes off as not not like we
(17:47):
are in a place, but this thing is happening, TJ.
And I don't know what to do with you.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Let me ask you this. So I'm desperate to talk
to you to I don't know, collaborate, but vocally, like verbally,
not just you know, me think my thing and you
think your thing, and then seven hours later we'll come
together and see if we have something that we can
put together. If you can explain to me why you
like to I don't want to say shut down, but
(18:15):
put an emotional wall up or not really be into talking.
I feel like I annoy you. Yeah, I feel like
you kind of shut down and you don't. It's like
I feel like I don't. It's not the TJ that
I know you're in kind of like hyper focus mode,
which I get, but when it is an extended period
(18:38):
of time or multiple days, I start to feel nervous,
like what's going on? And then I feel like I'm
annoying you.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Nervous. Okay, let me just address the nervous nervous about.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Why how you're feeling about us and me?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Is that always on the table like everything that comes up?
Is it always that, because that's like nuclear like how
I'm feeling about you? Yeah, okay, And you asked me
about the emotional wall. I know I'm guilty of that,
(19:20):
but I think you're interpreting something the last few days
about a wall that wasn't there. You're sitting right next
to me when I'm in that work and focus mode,
and yeah, we sat at this table and we did
for hours almost and barely spoke. But that wasn't an
emotional wall I'm putting up. Whatever I was doing is
(19:43):
exactly what you were doing, because you weren't talking to me,
and I just refuse to speak or answer questions. You know,
you were staring at that phone for hours yesterday working
on and that's fine what I'm saying. That's not me
putting up an emotional wall when your head is down
for hours.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
So if you remember, I was asking you, like, what
can we do? What could I do to help? How
can we do this together, or I take one thing,
you do another, we talk and you were just like
I got it on my own. And I'm not saying
that that's a wrong thing. What I'm saying is sometimes
it's really just almost your demeanor. It's not it's like
a smile. Oh my god, if there was just a smile,
(20:23):
that's all I'd need. It just felt robotic, I guess
over the last several days, and like I'm telling you,
if you smile at me, if you reached over and
grabbed my knee, or just like something that was just
a quick reminder that we're in this together, and hey, babe,
we got each other and just just the smallest of
(20:47):
emotion or a facial expression would just be like a
nice nod to what we are, who we are, and
then we're in it together. I think it's just.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah, but it's not reasonable for us too. I mean
you might in theory, yes, but in practice impossible to
separate working with somebody as a colleague and a business
partner and the relationship you're in with your business partner,
It is impossible, would you say, to work with me
(21:25):
and the emotion not be there for any period of
time because it no matter what. We are partners first,
business partners second. Correct, So can we ever sit up
and work as business partners and there not be a look,
not be a nod, not be a gesture, not be
a and just work because it seems like that feels
(21:47):
to you like something is wrong.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, when it goes on for many, many, many hours, Yes,
it feels unnatural, and it, honestly, it feels scary.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
You always use that scary. I just I just didn't.
I didn't think that's still on the table no matter
what goes on. I'm done with the fear of us
not working out, or of you not loving me the
way you say you love me. I am done with that.
That has not crossed my mind since I a long
time ago, and you probably know when that was done.
(22:19):
So when you you still use it to this day,
talk about scary like, I'm just being honest. You think
I'm going somewhere? What am I not reassuring you about?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
I just think it's those moments that I described where
it feels clinical, and when it happens like for several
days in a row or it, Yeah, I get I
get worried.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Oay, I'm asking what is happening that you are still feeling.
Will you just forever feel that way? What is happening
to where you aren't getting some assurance from me over
the past year and a half that was I mean,
I'm asking you to answer that.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
I think that you and you know this. You have
many different moods, and I've known that about you when
I was friends with you. You are moody. Not a
disagreement at all, And I get we all have moods,
and we all wake up differently and we all feel
differently based on experiences in life or things that are happening.
I just feel like sometimes when you do have whatever,
(23:22):
something serious, something pressure wise, something significant, you do tend
to emotionally and verbally withdraw from me. And that is
what makes me scared because I'd prefer it. I can't
tell you how to act or react because you are
who you are and I'm not in the business to
change anyone. But I'm just telling you when you do
(23:42):
do that, I don't feel like I worry about what
I'd love for you to do. Let me just say
that what I'd love for you to do is to
confide in me, to lean on me, to share with me.
So that we're a part of the solution together whatever's
going on. And in those moments you tend to stay
(24:10):
in your own head and like so, and it wasn't
even I think, just for me, the final nail was
when you had that great meeting with your friend who
was talking about his third marriage and whatever it is
that you talked about. You sent me a text and
you said we need to talk, and I was like, cool.
I had forty minutes maybe before I had to do anything,
(24:33):
and so I was like, okay, what is it. I
was excited to hear. I was like, Oh, he's going
to share something with me. He's going to tell me
what happened. He's going to tell me what he's feeling.
He's going to tell me what his meeting was like.
And you just I think you just said no, now's
not the time or something. I'm not sure what it
was that you said, but that, like, after the few
days we'd had, that was just for me, Like wow,
(24:56):
So that was for me where I really got quiet
and sad on the phone and didn't talk.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Okay, well, hey you're.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
No.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
I didn't say it, but everything I was excited about
in that conversation had to do with work, this podcast,
and some opportunities that are going to be coming up
down the road. Things that I didn't while you were
in the middle of getting Ava out the door and
going to school or going overseas for five months. Is
not something I wanted to engage with you fully on,
(25:27):
and I wanted to see you before I did it. Now,
I didn't explain all that because just saying hey, we'll
talk about it later wasn't a big deal to me.
It wasn't me withdrawing. It was just Okay, that's me,
and that's a communications issue. But you, well, babe, you
tell me the things you ask me to do, you
want me to when I'm emotionally a certain way. You
(25:48):
would like for me to do this, You would like
for me to do that, You like me to communicate,
You like me to be open. I would like I
don't know how to be what you want me to
be when I'm struggling. And this is what I've always
had a difficult time with, is that I end up
being put in a position to where today whatever is
(26:10):
going on with me trigger something in you, and now
I can't deal with my ship because you're upset with
me for dealing with the way I was dealing with
my ship. I understand what you're saying, and I can
absolutely try to be better, but you know it's it's hard,
(26:32):
and you know how hard it is, and you know
how hard. You can understand me better than anybody else.
But it's just I don't know how in those moments
to take care of me and take care of somebody else.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
And so what I'm asking for, honestly, is not for
you to take care of me. Hear me out, I'm
not I know. I'm not asking you to take care
of me. I'm not asking you to comfort me. I
(27:08):
want to be able to comfort you. I want you
to be able to trust me with your feelings enough
to just even say I'm going through some stuff. I
love your baby, but like I need some space, or
I need some time, or I just need to think
it out, just acknowledging what's happening. The non acknowledgment. It's
(27:28):
not that I need you to comfort me and make
me feel good about your pain. I just want communication
about what's happening with you. And if you were to
let me in, that would feel like a couple victory
in the sense that we're leaning on each other. You
trust me enough, not that I can fix anything, but
(27:49):
just to hear you out and to sit with you
in whatever mood you're in. I don't need, I don't
need to be comforted. But when I'm shut out or
I don't know what's going on, or I feel ful
of a big emotional change, that is a scary place
(28:10):
to be in. And I'm not again, I'm not asking
for your comfort. I'm asking for your communication. I'm asking
for your partnership or treating like giving me sharing with me.
I think it's about sharing, It's about That's how I feel.
So when I feel like I'm being shut out, it
(28:34):
doesn't feel.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Good, and we should mention it has been a bit
of a perfect storm the past several days. We're not
used to not spending time together, quality time together. We're
not used to not spending the night together. And it's
just for a whole host of reasons and people in
and out, and you just haven't been able to with
the responsibilities.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
So we haven't had a lot of alone time, almost none.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
That's a disconnect I used to and I think that's
a big deal. And in the time we did spend
an extended amount of time together. It was something work related.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
It was all work related.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
So I think that's an issue or as certainly needs
to be factor.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
How are you feeling? Let me ask you this, how
are you feeling over the last few days.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
I am focused and I am mentally exhausted and I
cannot recharge.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
When I left yesterday and the elevator doors were shutting,
what did I say to you? I miss you.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Oh, don't just tell me to f off.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Haha. I thought I miss you.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
And I miss you.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
To have a positive note on all of this, I
am in awe of what has transpired this past month
with my girls and you. I mean, we had I
think three different nights where all of our girls were
in the same room together, watching movies together, eating dinner together,
(30:10):
laughing together, playing games together. That if I could have
seen that a year ago, I would have taken the
biggest sigh of relief, like, thank God, it's all going
to be okay, It's all going to work out. And
we've had multiple days and nights like that in the
month of December and January, and that is a huge blessing.
(30:32):
And so I think I was also sad to see
Ava leave because things have been so good, and they
have been so peaceful and joyful.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
I might even add, and now we're trying to screw
it up. We finally got everybody else good.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
The girls are great, all of them, and that I
want to focus on. That is huge. Yeah, that's everything.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Look, and all this we learn every time we I mean,
I would still say in the year and a half,
we may have had five fights.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, well this wasn't even a fight.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
That's true, It's not This wasn't a fight. This was just.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
No. No, I'm not mad. I was sad. I actually
think I can handle anything as long as it's spoken
out loud and discussed. And because I do know that
you love me and I know that I love you,
I just like all couples, were still working through the
communication kinks and there is Look, I'll admit, I am
(31:52):
a I am a person who has insecurities like every
other human on the planet, and I get insecure and
I get scared. And your mind can be a mind
field if you let it. So I was trying to
make sure I was not taking the emotion I was
feeling from Ava and applying it to something that wasn't
(32:14):
that big of a deal. But just felt a little unnerving,
a little strange, a little frustrating.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
You said the communication. What kept you from putting your
hand on my knee? What kept you from speaking up
when you felt things were uncomfortable or I was being emotionless?
What kept you from driving or carrying us through that moment?
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Well, I was asking you what could I do? Can
we do this together? I was talking and communicating with you.
I didn't I also didn't want to bother you because
you looked super focused and I didn't want to disrupt
your train of thought if we just made a commitment.
Let me just say this, because yes, both of us,
I'm not saying that I don't require or want things
from you. Of course I do. You feel the same
(33:02):
way about me, probably if you're being honest. So yes,
do I every now and then want a smile or
hey babe, or and I love you? Yes?
Speaker 1 (33:12):
I do.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
I do want that.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Okay, we're going back to the same thing. It's on me.
We're going back to this way, is it?
Speaker 2 (33:23):
But the thing is, if it's a hardship for you
every now and then we're in the middle of a
you know, an intense stretch to just show a little
affection that's tough for me, and then say the same
thing about me as well. But I'm just saying I
don't think it's wrong to want that or to ask
that of the person.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
You love, but it's wrong to hold them accountable and
say that he is disrupted.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Or you're at risk or you're nervous. Because I'm just
saying it's how I felt. I can't I wasn't a
planned thought out thing where I'm trying to say he
owes me this and he should do that. I'm just
telling you how I felt.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
This is where all of our fights end up. It's
and I say it at the end every time, and
it frustrates the hell out of you. Okay, baby, I'm sorry,
and I'll take care of it because this is where
I'm left. There's there's nothing and no admission you are
making of you being responsible for any of that taking place.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
I have a hard time when you say that somehow
I think that you need to that you have to
take care of everything that you have to make it right,
that the onus is on you. I just don't think
that's fair. I think that both people in a relationship
would consider that something that is a part of being
in a relationship is wanting to know what their partner's
(34:44):
needs are and to do their best to keep that
in mind as they're operating in a relationship. I don't
think you need Yeah, I think like in a relationship.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
I need to tell you what my needs are.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
But when I ask you, i'd love to know. I
can't read your mind.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Okay, you know you're getting on to me for the
exact thing you did today.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
I told you is about Eva, and it was.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
I really don't know what to do because you want
me to tell you how I feel. You need to
tell you how I interpret it everything that happened. Every
time I say it, you don't say, oh, I didn't
think you saw it that way. Oh I didn't know
you saw it that way. DJ, but that's not what
I meant, or oh TJ, I swear I said more.
But if you feel like I wasn't engaging with you
(35:37):
and wasn't being sweet with you, then that's how you feel.
There's never that room, that landing place for me for
oh oh yeah, Maybe you go back and listen to
this later, maybe you'd not I'm not asking for an apology,
but you're not taking any responsibility. When that happens, all
(35:58):
I can do is say I'm sorry and take full,
full on responsibility and onus for making sure this doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
I absolutely am willing to take responsibility.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
You said you don't know what you did wrong, but
don't think you did anything wrong. With that being the case,
then what are you taking responsibility for?
Speaker 2 (36:24):
On the phone, I didn't want to tell you, and
it absolutely in part was because I was too emotional
about AVA and I didn't want to get into it
and I didn't feel like I was in a good
emotional space after knowing what I was about to go
through and drop off my daughter to tell you that
it hurt my feelings after the last two days that
(36:46):
you weren't going to have a conversation with me about
something you said you wanted to have a conversation with
me about. So I apologize for that.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Okay, maybe okay, I'm sorry. I mean, that's all that
needs to be said is I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I
After every issue we have, I always and I've committed
(37:21):
to it and minted every time I said it, commit
to do better and for it to not happen again.
So now I know.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Something else, and I'm sorry too.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
I was hoping we would be at a better place
by the end of this.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Why aren't we?
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Because I am incredibly frustrated by the conversation, and uh,
it's a continuation of many of our conversations. Oftentimes, sometimes
it takes time and reflection and some separation and we're
able to speak differently. But I do right, I'm trying
(38:23):
to tell you how I feel, and I do feel
walking away oftentimes that DJ you got to do better
and take on the responsibility to make sure everything's okay.
And in doing so, that's a it's a responsibility I take.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
And you, well, let me ask you this? What? Let
me ask you this? What? What can Why don't you
let me in? Why don't you let me help you?
Why don't you take me along with you wherever you are?
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Emotion I have bad days. I have really bad days,
and I have days that I am in my head.
I need on say space, but I need help and
I don't know where to get it.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Why wouldn't you turn to me?
Speaker 1 (39:26):
You're not gonna like the answer, because when things get
that kind of bad and I'm that kind of focused
to that kind of quiet. The last thing in that moment,
I want to do is to tell you what I need.
(39:52):
That is how I feel, and that is the truth,
not that I think is your responsibility. Well you should
just know.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Now.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
I know I'm a difficult one with my moods. I
know that, But in those moments, I can't imagine saying
to you or explaining to you what I need or
what I think you should do, or what I want
you to do. That's actually fine. The frustrating part is
(40:29):
after the fact, when I am told that I did
something wrong for how I reacted to how I was feeling.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Do you know what it's like to feel shut out
from the person that you love.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
I know that's no, that's difficult. Man apologized for that
in the past, but it's never intentional. It's never because
I want to do harm. I know that, but I
(41:15):
get continuously frustrated by being taken to task. You're worried again.
Scared is the word you use.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
I'm not scared when we're talking. I'm scared when we're.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Not and I'm scared when we're talking.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
But that's the only way you get through things is
to talk them out. And yeah, a lot of times
it gets worse before it gets better, but keeping it
in builds resentments, creates false narratives in your head of
why someone did something or why they didn't do something.
The only way to get into a better place, and
(42:05):
it is a better place after the conversation happens, is
sometimes to go into a darker, deeper place that's uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
We've done the darker thing yet.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
I think, so you sure, Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
So we're on the way out.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
I feel like that.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
All right then, glad we talked. You mean that, yeah,
because right now you can't help it, but you're genuinely smiling.
You're actually trying to hold it in.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
I was trying not to smile. Oh my god. One
of my favorite moments in the Age of Innocence is
happening right now.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Yeah, they're fighting, no, because they love each other so much,
So why is she crying because.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
She can't be with him and he's telling her that
he loves her, and she's like, it's not possible. We
can't do anything about it. It's just like us. Look,
she's crying, just like me. Michelle Peiffer. I don't know
if anyone's seen Age of Nisnce, but when I was
in high school, I read Edith Wharton's book, and then
when the movie came out, Michelle Pfeiffer and Daniel day
Lewis and Winona Wryter. Yes, that's me. It was like
(43:21):
a perfectly timed scene.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
That's playing, and that's me.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
With tears in his eyes. Tears A little fun fact
TJ like And I didn't know this until we actually
became an item. You like to have movies on in
the background. Always, the TV is always on, the sound
is down, but you have a you have a movie
(43:46):
playing at all times. During Christmas it's Die Hard and
then on January I think it was January second this year,
you switched and then what do you cycle through? Age
of Innocence was brought into play from me.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
But you like it? Well, I've seen this movie. I've
seen this movie fifty times. I still know what happens
in it because I never just sat down and washed
it from start to finish. I see moments and parts
of it, and I just always have some in the background.
The other one is Princess Bride.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
And Princess Bride has always been one of my top ten.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I keep that on, But yeah, I don't know. It's
something that's just comforting. I think some of them. We're
sitting here arguing here or no, no, yeah, we're fighting
now if we weren't before, but then we just did.
We graduated to a fight. Have we come back?
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Perfect timing. You all saw this scene in Age of
Nisnce right now it's.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Depressing, crawling on each other, stopping the living room.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Oh my god, all right, sir god, All right, well,
I'm glad we talked that out. You're good, baby.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Yeah, we can end with the smile and I'll lie.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Are you better? Yes?
Speaker 2 (44:54):
I am better? Are you better?
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Did we get somewhere? I think so, you get to
a better place. Yes? Still love me?
Speaker 2 (45:00):
I do love you. I never stopped loving you.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
You're still scared.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
I probably will be in moments here and there, but
less so. Are you never scared?
Speaker 1 (45:11):
No, none of that. I'm not just getting out in
the least bit. I couldn't. I couldn't go forward with
you in this way, with all we've got going on
if I wasn't just I can't have that in the
back of my mind. Look, folks were explain why this
wasn't planned, But something was going on and look and
must have been happened in the past couple of days again
(45:31):
with talking to my friend and then seeing some of
the comments. This was just a good opportunity I thought
to talk. I didn't think it was going to get
that damn heavy.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Yeah, sorry, I apologized that that was a lot for people.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Didn't think I was going to get that mad. But sure,
matter is this is I don't know how we would
have talked it out in private, if it would have
been better or worse.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
I think it would have been worse. I think it
was better to do it. You were tain, yes, sweetheart, dude, No,
I wasn't tame. I didn't hold anything back.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
This is your lad. Once once I hit stop on
the recorder, that's it. I don't want anything else. I'm good,
all right, Well, folks, appreciate you going along.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
I hope you all don't feel as bad about your
marriages or relationships now after you.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Have heard are as bad well, I mean as bad
as bad as us?
Speaker 2 (46:27):
I mean it's yes, yes, yes, yes, like you. I
hope that it's I mean it's relatable. Right, everybody has
disagreements and arguments and hurt feelings and insecurities and accusations
and denials and then apologies.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
All right, all the guys are going to listen to
this and like, Wow, it's not just his girls, not
just not just my girl, it's his too. And then
all the women are going to say, Mmmm, she got
an idiot just like me. We're all in this together together,
so appreciate you all listening. Y'all know where to find
Oh yeah, I guess I'm on TikTok. Now you'll know
where to find us at a V and TJ podcast
(47:06):
on Instagram and we're there our personal accounts as well.
But love you, baby, I love you too,
Hey, folks, Amy and TJ here doing a bit of
a surprise podcast. We weren't expecting to record one today,
so it's going to be a surprise to our iHeart
team that even we have this podcast. And it's even
a surprise to Robot, who is sitting here next to me,
not in studio. We are in our living room right now.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Well, I'm surprised, and I still don't even know what
to expect. You sent me a text and asked, so
my youngest, who seventeen, is driving, and so she dropped.
She drove Ava and I to the airport where I
said goodbye to her moments ago, and Annalise was driving.
So I was able to respond to you when you
(00:46):
texted me and said, can Analse drop you off at
my place?
Speaker 1 (00:52):
You know? Or I'm telling you now. I invited you
and I want you to come by because we ain't
right You and I aren't okay right now. I said,
you know what, let's set up and do a podcast.
Both of us just posted our first TikTok videos in
the past twenty four hours. It's the first time I
have actually seen comments on social media in a year
(01:14):
plus because of hasn't been on social media, and I
had comments off and a number of comments that I'm
reading calling us a cute, positive stuff, but a cute couple.
I'm sure you've seen some of this stuff, but people
are supportive and complementary, and you guys look so happy
and all of these things. And in reading that today,
(01:37):
at least, I felt like a fraud. Because you can
say it the way, or you put it in the
terms you want to put it in. But what you
can say, what you said with the phone to me,
or you can put it in whatever terms, but what
the past couple of days have felt like for us.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
So we have been working on this podcast since summer,
and I've always said that expectations are absolutely a case
for suffering. So I continually have to remind myself and
try to remove them from my head. But when you
start working hard and digging in. And I have always
(02:18):
been fully confident in our ability to work together on
television or in whatever some sort of broadcasting capacity is
what we do. We're good at it, we're good at
it together. What we haven't, what I haven't done as
much of in my career, is be responsible for content, booking, ratings,
(02:44):
whatever it's downloads here. But the pressure of all of that,
I think has consumed both of us, and so we
have always been able to work together and enjoy it profusely,
have our downtime and our fun together, and it's just
been kind of our rhythm, even as friends, but especially
(03:06):
in this romantic relationship, and even when we were hunkering
down last year, we were in it together. And in
the last few days, I just think we're spending hours
and hours side by side working on things. We work differently,
We've discovered when it comes to brainstorming, coming up with ideas,
(03:28):
thinking about guests, thinking about content, I like to talk
it out and brainstorm and throw things out and up,
and you like to quietly do your thing by yourself.
And so what we've ended up doing is sitting in
silence for hours next to each other, and it's exhausting.
(03:48):
I'm not great at that, and there's obviously with everything
else going on in my life. It just I have
felt extremely disconnected from you. And I'm somebody who, yeah,
I think, especially when I feel the way I do.
I have realized that I do want and need and
(04:15):
prefer physical touch, words of affirmation communication. So when I'm
sitting next to somebody who I know we're both working hard,
but I feel is completely emotionally removed from our relationship.
So it's the struggle of yes, we're we've always worked
together and gotten along, but this is a different kind
(04:37):
of working together, And so the last few days I've
felt disconnected to you.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I said, there were two reasons I wanted to set
this up, and all the reason this was on my mind.
One had to do with the seeing all the positive
comments and everyone so complimentary of us and us in
pictures and look so happy, which we are, that is
not a question of it. The second thing that made
me want to set this up, you know, I had
breakfast with a friend of mine today, and that friend
of mine happens to have two divorces under his belt
(05:09):
and is on his third marriage. And we had a
conversation in which there was a comfort or relief of
camaraderie in that life experience that we now have both
gone through and can understand. And he was speaking about
us and our relationship and our podcast in such a
way that he appreciated and things other people appreciate. Knowing
(05:33):
that other people are in that struggle or have been
through that and there's not shame and you're not alone.
So with that being said, and I saw the complimentary
things being said about us, and like I said, I
felt like a fraud just for today and that we
talk about this is a place where we're going to
be open and honest and have an ability to be authentic.
(05:54):
On this podcast. We joke, we play, people hear us laugh,
and we're getting along perfectly all the time on the podcast.
But there is now a moment of, well why not
share and be that authentic that we say we're going
to be, Not because we're trying to air out some
dirty laundry, but there is a comfort I believe, I
(06:18):
certainly have it in knowing that somebody else shares in
that same struggle. Most people can't relate to all the
fun we have and the smiles we have and the
trips we take and the things we get to do.
I can't relate to that. Look at it and go wow,
they look happy, and we are. But there is an
authenticity and a connective tissue to us all when it
(06:40):
comes to relationships and the struggle those relationships bringing. And
right now we're in a little bit of a struggle
and we've been there for several days, and so if
we want to be what relatable or even an example,
then if we're going to talk about all the highs
and how great we're doing and the joy and the love,
(07:01):
and if we're going to do that, then I thought, well,
why not now do this? And that's why I had
you come over, because we're going to make it through
this what we're dealing with now, and usually we have to.
I mean, we might be in a fight and then
(07:22):
have to go to the studio and do a show
together and do an interview and just have to pretend
like we're okay even if we're not. We haven't had
to do that yet, but I'm saying there, this is
this is an opportunity to show that we are not
okay sometimes and this is how we get through it.
I'm not good at this, talked about it with doctor Guardia.
(07:45):
It takes me a couple of days sometimes, so I
am trying as well. But this was this was a
I've been talking authenticity a lot lately and today and
a couple of happenings really put me in the place tok,
you know, why not and let's go talk about it
and that's supposed to be the point of the podcast, and.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I think that when we set out on this path,
I was actually having a conversation with my seventeen year
old Annalise and then Ava's good friend Montgomery, who you
mentioned in TikTok because she's marketing major and has been
helping us with social media. She's actually the person who
encouraged me. And I think you too, to turn comments
back on to get on TikTok, to really embrace this
(08:37):
podcast and what we're trying to accomplish, which is to
do what we love to do, which is to share,
and to not only share our story, but others stories,
and hopefully I think we talked about what we wanted
our podcast to be. I know, for me, yes, entertainment
is a huge part of it. I love to entertain,
but I also want to inspire and I want to
(08:59):
be transparent, and I've talked a lot about living my
truth and so this is part of it. So I
am fine having these conversations because there isn't a couple
out there who doesn't and so yes, I don't, and
I know you don't want to put on some false
narrative that somehow we're the perfect couple and we found
our true love and that means we never fight and
(09:21):
we always get along and things are rosy and great.
No they're not. And even as much as we know
each other more than most people who have been in
a relationship for over a year, we've known each other
for a decade now pretty much, and we know each
other really, really well, it doesn't mean that we still don't. Like,
I'm learning things about you every day as we're We've
always worked together, but working with this kind of pressure
(09:42):
over our heads is a whole other thing where Yeah,
I'm just saying that pressure is a lot.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Oh are you talking about the work pressure or the
pressure now publicly for us to succeed as a couple.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Oh see, I don't. I don't feel the pressure from
the public to stay with you. I know that I
know you well enough and I've spend enough time with you,
and I knew how I felt. And love sometimes is
a choice. When it's hard, it's not just a feeling.
Lust is a feeling, but love is a choice, I believe,
and I have chosen to love you, So I don't
feel pressure from the public to be with you. I
(10:14):
would be devastated just personally because I want to be
with you and I chose you, but I feel the
pressure of our careers that I believe.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
We're unfairly taken from us, and I really want to
be able to do what I love and I want
to be able to do it with you. So that's
more the pressure I feel. And funny enough, you talk
about the.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Comments, So this is the first time I've really read
the comments as well, and the TikTok thing has been amazing.
Like I would say, ninety five percent of them are positive,
but the negative ones sting and they hurt, and I
was I've been angry at the cancel culture mentality that
(11:09):
people think they know the story and then they just
throw barbs at you and they call you names, and
it's I'm not trying to say, poor me, whoya wow w.
There are so many people who have gone through this,
not just publicly but just personally. If you do something
that people don't like or they think is wrong, or
they think they know what happens, you know, no one
knows what happens in someone else's marriage, No one knows
(11:33):
what happens in your private life except for you. And
so just to see the unbelievable. Judgment is kind of
overwhelming still more than a year later, and I just
I sometimes get discouraged at people's unwillingness to either suspend
judgment or to just feel better about themselves by making
(11:54):
you into the villain for whatever reason they need to
do it. So even Annaly's actually got on to tick
Took yesterday and started deleting all the bad comments because
they didn't want me to see them.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Look, we can handle anything if you and I are okay.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
When you and I are not okay, it's the end
of the world. We went through a year of our
relationship strengthened because we were like the whole world it
felt like was against us, but I had you and
I was okay.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I mean that entire year was as good a relationship
as anyone could imagine, not just under the circumstances, but
we were great. We're in this position now, all that
pressure you're talking about, the work pressure, the public pressure,
everything's been going on family wise for a long time.
That turned a corner and everything has been great the
(12:48):
past month. But to now you and I for the
past several it feels like the end of the world.
And so I mean, I'm asking you, what are you
willing or are you waiting to let this cycle through?
Or was this just a weird stretch of time because
we haven't been together the past several nights just because
(13:11):
of schedules and things have happened, we haven't spent as
much time together, and the time we spent together was
spent working, So all of that feels different. So is
it that just going to go away once we get
back in the regular routine or whatever it may be.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
No, I mean, I think we need to talk about
our different approaches to our feelings. If I'm feeling m
just you and I aren't on the same wavelength, it's
devastating to me, so.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Well on the same page about how we're feeling. What
are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Well? Oh, because I just think how we communicate with
each other, like what I need versus what you need?
What you might not realize hurts me. I might I
say things or do things that I don't realize hurt you,
and I I think we have to be more open
about communicating what we need to feel supported, even when
it's tough, even when it's tense, even when we're in
(14:11):
our own zones.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Basically, but where is But where did that happen? Where
did that happen today? That you had? You said communication
with you one hundred percent, But we lost communication when
I knew something. And I'm speaking from my perspective here
and you have a different one on how I might
have been behaving as well, but you were, you were
(14:32):
I knew something was up and you wouldn't tell me
what it was. When on the phone today, over and over,
I asked, what's up? You just don't want to tell me,
So what's going on? So at that point I stopped probing.
I know you were completely silenced, not speaking one word answers.
There was nothing to it, and we are talking about
(14:53):
it now. That was how many hours ago? I mean
we didn't get it out until we got microphones in
front of us.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Now, well, I didn't even know that this was going
to happen.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Well I know that, but I'm saying, but why did
Why are we talking about it now and not talking
about it when you said you knew you had a problem,
You knew you had an issue, and you didn't communicate
it to me.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Well, I because I was in an emotional state about Ava,
and I just felt like there were so many things
that I was feeling. I wanted to make sure that
I had the space to recognize why I was feeling
what I was feeling. I really wanted to just be
able to put a space between those two things.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And what do you think now? There a space between?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yeah, between the emotions, like, I don't know if one
is impacting the other. Do you know what I mean? Like,
I don't. I'm feeling emotional about Ava, So I'm just
in an emotional place right now.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Okay, you're suggesting that what's going on with you and
I is just a byproduct of what's happening with Ava.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
So.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
What I'm saying is two things can happen at the
same time, and the emotions from one can overwhelm the
other and make it more than it should be. I
wanted to be able to really think about why I
was feeling what I was feeling, and how much of
my emotions around Eva or We're adding to how I
was feeling. That's what I wanted to make sure I
was doing. And I didn't want to just break down
(16:18):
and cry. I wanted to think about it.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
So what does that actually mean? Because I often end
up in this place with you in these conversations to
where I think we're dealing with one thing and you
explain it in a such a way and it's like, oh,
this is not that.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I just don't I just don't want to overreact. That's
all because I'm feeling emotional.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Okay, you think you have, I mean you.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
No, I don't think I've overreacted.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Why didn't you speak to me freely on the phone.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Because I was crying. I just didn't want to cry
on the phone.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Okay, Well you're talking to me like it's nothing right,
you're talking to me now, I do I And yeah,
I know this sounds familiar to you because I've talked
about it before, like wow, this is the thing we're
talking about, and now now it ends up getting spent
in such a way that I don't know what the
problem is.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I just I think for me, I just I don't
like spending days not talking to you or being in
the same room with you and they're being silenced that
it just it throws me. It's not something I'm used
to and it scares me.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
But you say it often, do you. But it always
feels like you put the onus on me for it.
There is what can be done or what can you
do in that situation now, But I always feel like
the onus is on me to control the room to
it because you say it to me like that, like
you didn't say anything and you were on your phone,
and it often comes off as not not like we
(17:47):
are in a place, but this thing is happening, TJ.
And I don't know what to do with you.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Let me ask you this. So I'm desperate to talk
to you to I don't know, collaborate, but vocally, like verbally,
not just you know, me think my thing and you
think your thing, and then seven hours later we'll come
together and see if we have something that we can
put together. If you can explain to me why you
like to I don't want to say shut down, but
(18:15):
put an emotional wall up or not really be into talking.
I feel like I annoy you. Yeah, I feel like
you kind of shut down and you don't. It's like
I feel like I don't. It's not the TJ that
I know you're in kind of like hyper focus mode,
which I get, but when it is an extended period
(18:38):
of time or multiple days, I start to feel nervous,
like what's going on? And then I feel like I'm
annoying you.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Nervous. Okay, let me just address the nervous nervous about.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Why how you're feeling about us and me?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Is that always on the table like everything that comes up?
Is it always that, because that's like nuclear like how
I'm feeling about you? Yeah, okay, And you asked me
about the emotional wall. I know I'm guilty of that,
(19:20):
but I think you're interpreting something the last few days
about a wall that wasn't there. You're sitting right next
to me when I'm in that work and focus mode,
and yeah, we sat at this table and we did
for hours almost and barely spoke. But that wasn't an
emotional wall I'm putting up. Whatever I was doing is
(19:43):
exactly what you were doing, because you weren't talking to me,
and I just refuse to speak or answer questions. You know,
you were staring at that phone for hours yesterday working
on and that's fine what I'm saying. That's not me
putting up an emotional wall when your head is down
for hours.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
So if you remember, I was asking you, like, what
can we do? What could I do to help? How
can we do this together, or I take one thing,
you do another, we talk and you were just like
I got it on my own. And I'm not saying
that that's a wrong thing. What I'm saying is sometimes
it's really just almost your demeanor. It's not it's like
a smile. Oh my god, if there was just a smile,
(20:23):
that's all I'd need. It just felt robotic, I guess
over the last several days, and like I'm telling you,
if you smile at me, if you reached over and
grabbed my knee, or just like something that was just
a quick reminder that we're in this together, and hey, babe,
we got each other and just just the smallest of
(20:47):
emotion or a facial expression would just be like a
nice nod to what we are, who we are, and
then we're in it together. I think it's just.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah, but it's not reasonable for us too. I mean
you might in theory, yes, but in practice impossible to
separate working with somebody as a colleague and a business
partner and the relationship you're in with your business partner,
It is impossible, would you say, to work with me
(21:25):
and the emotion not be there for any period of
time because it no matter what. We are partners first,
business partners second. Correct, So can we ever sit up
and work as business partners and there not be a look,
not be a nod, not be a gesture, not be
a and just work because it seems like that feels
(21:47):
to you like something is wrong.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, when it goes on for many, many, many hours, Yes,
it feels unnatural, and it, honestly, it feels scary.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
You always use that scary. I just I just didn't.
I didn't think that's still on the table no matter
what goes on. I'm done with the fear of us
not working out, or of you not loving me the
way you say you love me. I am done with that.
That has not crossed my mind since I a long
time ago, and you probably know when that was done.
(22:19):
So when you you still use it to this day,
talk about scary like, I'm just being honest. You think
I'm going somewhere? What am I not reassuring you about?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
I just think it's those moments that I described where
it feels clinical, and when it happens like for several
days in a row or it, Yeah, I get I
get worried.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Oay, I'm asking what is happening that you are still feeling.
Will you just forever feel that way? What is happening
to where you aren't getting some assurance from me over
the past year and a half that was I mean,
I'm asking you to answer that.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
I think that you and you know this. You have
many different moods, and I've known that about you when
I was friends with you. You are moody. Not a
disagreement at all, And I get we all have moods,
and we all wake up differently and we all feel
differently based on experiences in life or things that are happening.
I just feel like sometimes when you do have whatever,
(23:22):
something serious, something pressure wise, something significant, you do tend
to emotionally and verbally withdraw from me. And that is
what makes me scared because I'd prefer it. I can't
tell you how to act or react because you are
who you are and I'm not in the business to
change anyone. But I'm just telling you when you do
(23:42):
do that, I don't feel like I worry about what
I'd love for you to do. Let me just say
that what I'd love for you to do is to
confide in me, to lean on me, to share with me.
So that we're a part of the solution together whatever's
going on. And in those moments you tend to stay
(24:10):
in your own head and like so, and it wasn't
even I think, just for me, the final nail was
when you had that great meeting with your friend who
was talking about his third marriage and whatever it is
that you talked about. You sent me a text and
you said we need to talk, and I was like, cool.
I had forty minutes maybe before I had to do anything,
(24:33):
and so I was like, okay, what is it. I
was excited to hear. I was like, Oh, he's going
to share something with me. He's going to tell me
what happened. He's going to tell me what he's feeling.
He's going to tell me what his meeting was like.
And you just I think you just said no, now's
not the time or something. I'm not sure what it
was that you said, but that, like, after the few
days we'd had, that was just for me, Like wow,
(24:56):
So that was for me where I really got quiet
and sad on the phone and didn't talk.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Okay, well, hey you're.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
No.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
I didn't say it, but everything I was excited about
in that conversation had to do with work, this podcast,
and some opportunities that are going to be coming up
down the road. Things that I didn't while you were
in the middle of getting Ava out the door and
going to school or going overseas for five months. Is
not something I wanted to engage with you fully on,
(25:27):
and I wanted to see you before I did it. Now,
I didn't explain all that because just saying hey, we'll
talk about it later wasn't a big deal to me.
It wasn't me withdrawing. It was just Okay, that's me,
and that's a communications issue. But you, well, babe, you
tell me the things you ask me to do, you
want me to when I'm emotionally a certain way. You
(25:48):
would like for me to do this, You would like
for me to do that, You like me to communicate,
You like me to be open. I would like I
don't know how to be what you want me to
be when I'm struggling. And this is what I've always
had a difficult time with, is that I end up
being put in a position to where today whatever is
(26:10):
going on with me trigger something in you, and now
I can't deal with my ship because you're upset with
me for dealing with the way I was dealing with
my ship. I understand what you're saying, and I can
absolutely try to be better, but you know it's it's hard,
(26:32):
and you know how hard it is, and you know
how hard. You can understand me better than anybody else.
But it's just I don't know how in those moments
to take care of me and take care of somebody else.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
And so what I'm asking for, honestly, is not for
you to take care of me. Hear me out, I'm
not I know. I'm not asking you to take care
of me. I'm not asking you to comfort me. I
(27:08):
want to be able to comfort you. I want you
to be able to trust me with your feelings enough
to just even say I'm going through some stuff. I
love your baby, but like I need some space, or
I need some time, or I just need to think
it out, just acknowledging what's happening. The non acknowledgment. It's
(27:28):
not that I need you to comfort me and make
me feel good about your pain. I just want communication
about what's happening with you. And if you were to
let me in, that would feel like a couple victory
in the sense that we're leaning on each other. You
trust me enough, not that I can fix anything, but
(27:49):
just to hear you out and to sit with you
in whatever mood you're in. I don't need, I don't
need to be comforted. But when I'm shut out or
I don't know what's going on, or I feel ful
of a big emotional change, that is a scary place
(28:10):
to be in. And I'm not again, I'm not asking
for your comfort. I'm asking for your communication. I'm asking
for your partnership or treating like giving me sharing with me.
I think it's about sharing, It's about That's how I feel.
So when I feel like I'm being shut out, it
(28:34):
doesn't feel.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Good, and we should mention it has been a bit
of a perfect storm the past several days. We're not
used to not spending time together, quality time together. We're
not used to not spending the night together. And it's
just for a whole host of reasons and people in
and out, and you just haven't been able to with
the responsibilities.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
So we haven't had a lot of alone time, almost none.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
That's a disconnect I used to and I think that's
a big deal. And in the time we did spend
an extended amount of time together. It was something work related.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
It was all work related.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
So I think that's an issue or as certainly needs
to be factor.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
How are you feeling? Let me ask you this, how
are you feeling over the last few days.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
I am focused and I am mentally exhausted and I
cannot recharge.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
When I left yesterday and the elevator doors were shutting,
what did I say to you? I miss you.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Oh, don't just tell me to f off.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Haha. I thought I miss you.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
And I miss you.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
To have a positive note on all of this, I
am in awe of what has transpired this past month
with my girls and you. I mean, we had I
think three different nights where all of our girls were
in the same room together, watching movies together, eating dinner together,
(30:10):
laughing together, playing games together. That if I could have
seen that a year ago, I would have taken the
biggest sigh of relief, like, thank God, it's all going
to be okay, It's all going to work out. And
we've had multiple days and nights like that in the
month of December and January, and that is a huge blessing.
(30:32):
And so I think I was also sad to see
Ava leave because things have been so good, and they
have been so peaceful and joyful.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
I might even add, and now we're trying to screw
it up. We finally got everybody else good.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
The girls are great, all of them, and that I
want to focus on. That is huge. Yeah, that's everything.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Look, and all this we learn every time we I mean,
I would still say in the year and a half,
we may have had five fights.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, well this wasn't even a fight.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
That's true, It's not This wasn't a fight. This was just.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
No. No, I'm not mad. I was sad. I actually
think I can handle anything as long as it's spoken
out loud and discussed. And because I do know that
you love me and I know that I love you,
I just like all couples, were still working through the
communication kinks and there is Look, I'll admit, I am
(31:52):
a I am a person who has insecurities like every
other human on the planet, and I get insecure and
I get scared. And your mind can be a mind
field if you let it. So I was trying to
make sure I was not taking the emotion I was
feeling from Ava and applying it to something that wasn't
(32:14):
that big of a deal. But just felt a little unnerving,
a little strange, a little frustrating.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
You said the communication. What kept you from putting your
hand on my knee? What kept you from speaking up
when you felt things were uncomfortable or I was being emotionless?
What kept you from driving or carrying us through that moment?
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Well, I was asking you what could I do? Can
we do this together? I was talking and communicating with you.
I didn't I also didn't want to bother you because
you looked super focused and I didn't want to disrupt
your train of thought if we just made a commitment.
Let me just say this, because yes, both of us,
I'm not saying that I don't require or want things
from you. Of course I do. You feel the same
(33:02):
way about me, probably if you're being honest. So yes,
do I every now and then want a smile or
hey babe, or and I love you? Yes?
Speaker 1 (33:12):
I do.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
I do want that.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Okay, we're going back to the same thing. It's on me.
We're going back to this way, is it?
Speaker 2 (33:23):
But the thing is, if it's a hardship for you
every now and then we're in the middle of a
you know, an intense stretch to just show a little
affection that's tough for me, and then say the same
thing about me as well. But I'm just saying I
don't think it's wrong to want that or to ask
that of the person.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
You love, but it's wrong to hold them accountable and
say that he is disrupted.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Or you're at risk or you're nervous. Because I'm just
saying it's how I felt. I can't I wasn't a
planned thought out thing where I'm trying to say he
owes me this and he should do that. I'm just
telling you how I felt.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
This is where all of our fights end up. It's
and I say it at the end every time, and
it frustrates the hell out of you. Okay, baby, I'm sorry,
and I'll take care of it because this is where
I'm left. There's there's nothing and no admission you are
making of you being responsible for any of that taking place.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
I have a hard time when you say that somehow
I think that you need to that you have to
take care of everything that you have to make it right,
that the onus is on you. I just don't think
that's fair. I think that both people in a relationship
would consider that something that is a part of being
in a relationship is wanting to know what their partner's
(34:44):
needs are and to do their best to keep that
in mind as they're operating in a relationship. I don't
think you need Yeah, I think like in a relationship.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
I need to tell you what my needs are.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
But when I ask you, i'd love to know. I
can't read your mind.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Okay, you know you're getting on to me for the
exact thing you did today.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
I told you is about Eva, and it was.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
I really don't know what to do because you want
me to tell you how I feel. You need to
tell you how I interpret it everything that happened. Every
time I say it, you don't say, oh, I didn't
think you saw it that way. Oh I didn't know
you saw it that way. DJ, but that's not what
I meant, or oh TJ, I swear I said more.
But if you feel like I wasn't engaging with you
(35:37):
and wasn't being sweet with you, then that's how you feel.
There's never that room, that landing place for me for
oh oh yeah, Maybe you go back and listen to
this later, maybe you'd not I'm not asking for an apology,
but you're not taking any responsibility. When that happens, all
(35:58):
I can do is say I'm sorry and take full,
full on responsibility and onus for making sure this doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
I absolutely am willing to take responsibility.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
You said you don't know what you did wrong, but
don't think you did anything wrong. With that being the case,
then what are you taking responsibility for?
Speaker 2 (36:24):
On the phone, I didn't want to tell you, and
it absolutely in part was because I was too emotional
about AVA and I didn't want to get into it
and I didn't feel like I was in a good
emotional space after knowing what I was about to go
through and drop off my daughter to tell you that
it hurt my feelings after the last two days that
(36:46):
you weren't going to have a conversation with me about
something you said you wanted to have a conversation with
me about. So I apologize for that.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Okay, maybe okay, I'm sorry. I mean, that's all that
needs to be said is I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I
After every issue we have, I always and I've committed
(37:21):
to it and minted every time I said it, commit
to do better and for it to not happen again.
So now I know.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Something else, and I'm sorry too.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
I was hoping we would be at a better place
by the end of this.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Why aren't we?
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Because I am incredibly frustrated by the conversation, and uh,
it's a continuation of many of our conversations. Oftentimes, sometimes
it takes time and reflection and some separation and we're
able to speak differently. But I do right, I'm trying
(38:23):
to tell you how I feel, and I do feel
walking away oftentimes that DJ you got to do better
and take on the responsibility to make sure everything's okay.
And in doing so, that's a it's a responsibility I take.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
And you, well, let me ask you this? What? Let
me ask you this? What? What can Why don't you
let me in? Why don't you let me help you?
Why don't you take me along with you wherever you are?
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Emotion I have bad days. I have really bad days,
and I have days that I am in my head.
I need on say space, but I need help and
I don't know where to get it.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Why wouldn't you turn to me?
Speaker 1 (39:26):
You're not gonna like the answer, because when things get
that kind of bad and I'm that kind of focused
to that kind of quiet. The last thing in that moment,
I want to do is to tell you what I need.
(39:52):
That is how I feel, and that is the truth,
not that I think is your responsibility. Well you should
just know.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Now.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
I know I'm a difficult one with my moods. I
know that, But in those moments, I can't imagine saying
to you or explaining to you what I need or
what I think you should do, or what I want
you to do. That's actually fine. The frustrating part is
(40:29):
after the fact, when I am told that I did
something wrong for how I reacted to how I was feeling.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Do you know what it's like to feel shut out
from the person that you love.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
I know that's no, that's difficult. Man apologized for that
in the past, but it's never intentional. It's never because
I want to do harm. I know that, but I
(41:15):
get continuously frustrated by being taken to task. You're worried again.
Scared is the word you use.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
I'm not scared when we're talking. I'm scared when we're.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Not and I'm scared when we're talking.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
But that's the only way you get through things is
to talk them out. And yeah, a lot of times
it gets worse before it gets better, but keeping it
in builds resentments, creates false narratives in your head of
why someone did something or why they didn't do something.
The only way to get into a better place, and
(42:05):
it is a better place after the conversation happens, is
sometimes to go into a darker, deeper place that's uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
We've done the darker thing yet.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
I think, so you sure, Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
So we're on the way out.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
I feel like that.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
All right then, glad we talked. You mean that, yeah,
because right now you can't help it, but you're genuinely smiling.
You're actually trying to hold it in.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
I was trying not to smile. Oh my god. One
of my favorite moments in the Age of Innocence is
happening right now.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Yeah, they're fighting, no, because they love each other so much,
So why is she crying because.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
She can't be with him and he's telling her that
he loves her, and she's like, it's not possible. We
can't do anything about it. It's just like us. Look,
she's crying, just like me. Michelle Peiffer. I don't know
if anyone's seen Age of Nisnce, but when I was
in high school, I read Edith Wharton's book, and then
when the movie came out, Michelle Pfeiffer and Daniel day
Lewis and Winona Wryter. Yes, that's me. It was like
(43:21):
a perfectly timed scene.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
That's playing, and that's me.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
With tears in his eyes. Tears A little fun fact
TJ like And I didn't know this until we actually
became an item. You like to have movies on in
the background. Always, the TV is always on, the sound
is down, but you have a you have a movie
(43:46):
playing at all times. During Christmas it's Die Hard and
then on January I think it was January second this year,
you switched and then what do you cycle through? Age
of Innocence was brought into play from me.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
But you like it? Well, I've seen this movie. I've
seen this movie fifty times. I still know what happens
in it because I never just sat down and washed
it from start to finish. I see moments and parts
of it, and I just always have some in the background.
The other one is Princess Bride.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
And Princess Bride has always been one of my top ten.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I keep that on, But yeah, I don't know. It's
something that's just comforting. I think some of them. We're
sitting here arguing here or no, no, yeah, we're fighting
now if we weren't before, but then we just did.
We graduated to a fight. Have we come back?
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Perfect timing. You all saw this scene in Age of
Nisnce right now it's.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Depressing, crawling on each other, stopping the living room.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Oh my god, all right, sir god, All right, well,
I'm glad we talked that out. You're good, baby.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Yeah, we can end with the smile and I'll lie.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Are you better? Yes?
Speaker 2 (44:54):
I am better? Are you better?
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Did we get somewhere? I think so, you get to
a better place. Yes? Still love me?
Speaker 2 (45:00):
I do love you. I never stopped loving you.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
You're still scared.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
I probably will be in moments here and there, but
less so. Are you never scared?
Speaker 1 (45:11):
No, none of that. I'm not just getting out in
the least bit. I couldn't. I couldn't go forward with
you in this way, with all we've got going on
if I wasn't just I can't have that in the
back of my mind. Look, folks were explain why this
wasn't planned, But something was going on and look and
must have been happened in the past couple of days again
(45:31):
with talking to my friend and then seeing some of
the comments. This was just a good opportunity I thought
to talk. I didn't think it was going to get
that damn heavy.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Yeah, sorry, I apologized that that was a lot for people.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Didn't think I was going to get that mad. But sure,
matter is this is I don't know how we would
have talked it out in private, if it would have
been better or worse.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
I think it would have been worse. I think it
was better to do it. You were tain, yes, sweetheart, dude, No,
I wasn't tame. I didn't hold anything back.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
This is your lad. Once once I hit stop on
the recorder, that's it. I don't want anything else. I'm good,
all right, Well, folks, appreciate you going along.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
I hope you all don't feel as bad about your
marriages or relationships now after you.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Have heard are as bad well, I mean as bad
as bad as us?
Speaker 2 (46:27):
I mean it's yes, yes, yes, yes, like you. I
hope that it's I mean it's relatable. Right, everybody has
disagreements and arguments and hurt feelings and insecurities and accusations
and denials and then apologies.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
All right, all the guys are going to listen to
this and like, Wow, it's not just his girls, not
just not just my girl, it's his too. And then
all the women are going to say, Mmmm, she got
an idiot just like me. We're all in this together together,
so appreciate you all listening. Y'all know where to find
Oh yeah, I guess I'm on TikTok. Now you'll know
where to find us at a V and TJ podcast
(47:06):
on Instagram and we're there our personal accounts as well.
But love you, baby, I love you too,
Hosts And Creators
Amy Robach
T.J. Holmes
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