June 18, 2025 • 20 mins
The judge shocked the courtroom this morning, saying “court cannot go on today.” Why? It’s yet another issue with a juror. Amy and T. J. get you caught up on today’s latest drama which could force the trial go longer than expected.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, folks, it is Wednesday, June eighteenth. Today is day
twenty sixth of the sixth week of testimony in the
Diddy trial, and jurors keep making headlines. Welcome to this
episode of Amy and TJ.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
We continue to be your.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
One stop shop to keep you updated on everything going
on in the Diddy trial and Robes. I say, it's
to day twenty sixth of testimony. But lo and behold,
as we sit here, there will not be testimony today because.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Of a juror.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
That's right, and it's not the juror that we thought
might be causing all of the headlines. Initially, we were
expecting that the judge may make his decision about Juror
number seven, that's the second juror that potentially could have
been removed from the jury because he was alleged to
have been discussing the case with a work colleague. And
(00:51):
so we didn't hear about that juror. Instead, we heard
about a sick juror.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Sick, like of all the things I was anticipating, today,
no testimony. They will not have a day of the
Diddy trial today because a juror is sick. Now I
immediately thought, well, wait, what the hell.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
There's been so much.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Weird stuff going on, so I thought something might be
out something else strange.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
But this is pretty serious. If anybody has had.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Vertigo, yes I've experienced it before. You have incredibly dizzy,
you feel very nauseated. But the thing is, just because
you have vertigo symptoms doesn't mean you have vertico. I mean,
I'm imagining if you feel or if this juror felt
that ill, or that unwell and that dizzy and nauseated,
that juror probably needs to go to the doctor, maybe
even the emergency room to rule out other more serious conditions,
(01:38):
because that could be something much more significant. And so
because of that, the judge even said in court today,
I mean everyone was there, everyone showed up, they were
all waiting. They're going to have to inquire further about
the condition of this juror because is this a one
time event, is this a today only issue, or is
this something more serious going forward? Does this juror will
(02:00):
this juror need to be ultimately replaced?
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Wow, for testimony to resume, we.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Are talking now robes about the potential for now three
of the twelve jurors who started in the Ditty trial
might end up off the jury and three alternates put
in that could change the demographics. It could change this
makeup drastically.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
And who knows what.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
We know one black guy has been replaced by a
white guy. We know that defense was fighting tooth and
nail trying to keep that black guy who was a
nineties hip hop fan on.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
I wonder why.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
But still this is just incredible to me now and
the juror to your point. And look, if anybody I
haven't had vertigo, I've been around people with it.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It's debilitating.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
You can't function, No, you actually can't walk, you can't
fund look straight. And again, for me, the nausea was
so bad. I've had it twice in my life and
the only thing that helped it was to take some dramamine,
which usually knocks you out and makes you tired. But again,
I really think unless this juror is someone who has
experienced this multiple time in their lives, is going to
have to do some further investigating as to what and
(03:04):
why they're actually going through this.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
And we don't know anything about this.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Juror, male, female, black, white, I don't I didn't see
any details about specifically who this juror was they I.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Give a juror number right when they were talking about
on this one.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
We know duror number seven is potentially hanging in the balance.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Durre number six is off. We don't know what number
juror this one is.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
And again this is relevant for a number of reasons,
as we just explained, But the one we haven't talked
about yet is how big of a deal it is
because of timing throughout. We're in week six and I
think Robes, I go back to week two or some
very early on when the prosecution said, hey, we are
ahead of schedule. They've been talking about this for a while.
We are doing good. We're ahead of schedule. We're going
(03:44):
to be done this week. They told us last week
they thought they were going to be done today, even
that the prosecution was going to rest, if not today,
they said on Friday. So now where do we find ourselves? Robes,
no core today and it's June teenth tomorrow. They were
already scheduled to be off, So they're missing two full
(04:06):
days of testimony. What's that going to do to the timeline?
How's it going to push it? How much farther back?
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Now? Well, we know that the state. It's not the
state the fence at the prosecution has three more witnesses
to call, and one of them is a doozy.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
It's Brendan Paul.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
In fact, all the photographers outside the courtroom this morning
got pictures of him coming into court.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
He came in ready to testify.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
This is probably the big last star ish witness for
the prosecution. He was Ditty's personal assistant up until he
was arrested. Correct or what was his timeline as to
when he was Ditty's assistant in up to last years?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yeah, it was reason. But this is the guy a
lot of people labeled as the drug mule.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
He's yes, that's a terrible aka the drug mule.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
But anytime you read about him in any publication, they
refer to him as Ditty's drug mule, namely because he
was a rest did around the same time did he
was arrested after those raids on Ditty's mansions? And yes,
he had drug charges hanging over his head. Those have
all been removed. He is now not facing any charges
and he is now testifying for the prosecution. I'm sure
(05:14):
that is in exchange for testifying for the prosecution.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yes, and he's gotten an immunity deal already. The judge
grannam immunity yesterday. But to your point, Ropes, everybody was
suited and booted.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
They were ready to go this.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Morning, and this came kind of out of nowhere. So
I don't know how much time. I mean, they went
longer with a summary witness yesterday than they thought they
would go. How much will they go? How far would
they go with Brendan Paul. He seems to be a
very important witness. I can't imagine it going quickly. So
to our point about the timeline, now, we could be
going into next week that the prosecution is still putting
(05:49):
on its case and its witnesses. The defense wants two
to five days. They're predicting that's how long they will take.
So we were talking earlier this week that while the
jury's going to have this case by next week, now
it looks like that is not as likely of a scenario.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
I have read that it is unlikely and certainly almost
impossible that the prosecution would wrap its case on Friday.
They say it is absolutely going to bleed over into
next week for all that they have to do and
think about it.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
We talked about how dry.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
But important, but maybe kind of boring. These summary witnesses
have been, so you don't want to end.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
I wouldn't imagine.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Again, I'm no lawyer here, but I do understand wanting
to leave with an impression or at least something that
has the jury's thinking and remembering what they last heard
from the prosecution's case. And so someone like Brandon Paul
would be that person. So you want to make sure
you give the jury something to remember with one of
(06:46):
your final witnesses.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
One im I say, I totally forgot the other thing.
They're out today unexpectedly, they're off tomorrow for Juneteenth, and
they're only doing a half day on Friday because one
of the jurors another jury issue. They're letting a juror
go to a graduate. I think, well, that makes sense,
that does, and that's not I'm actually really pleased to
see that a court, a federal court, will grant that.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
But so this is a week that we thought we
were going to see a lot of testimony. We're not
getting as much as we thought.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
So the prosecution may go into Tuesday with that kind
of a schedule, and they have three more witnesses, and
one of them we know is going to be a
big deal for the prosecution. And because it's a big
deal for the prosecution, the defense obviously is going to
want to take their turn with brend and Paul as
well to try and undo any damage he may do
to Ditty's case or to Ditty's defense at least. So
(07:33):
I think most people think this, yeah, we and then
so we're pushing up against the fourth of July now
for the defense to rest.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Again on Friday with the half day still. We've seen
a lot of times they come into court and they're
arguing about something before court even gets started.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
They've been one.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Day, they went two hours, yes, before the jury even
came in.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Now, the court did take care of business this morning
while they were trying to figure out what they were
going to do with the juror, and they were going
back and forth again while the jury wasn't there, taking
advantage of that to try and figure out whether or
not certain text messages were admissible. These text messages the
prosecution wanted in I believe it was an exchange between
Diddy and an alleged drug dealer. The defense did not
(08:14):
want those text exchanges in. But as we're on the
subject of text messages, we found out a lot and
it wasn't necessarily even what the prosecution was putting forward
with the summary witness going over text, but it was
what the defense was able to do with that witness
and getting the federal agent to describe text messages that
the prosecution was skipping over was leaving out during the
(08:37):
testimony understandably. So when you heard what those text messages were,
this was.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
All about, Okay, I keep going to the Washington Posts
because they called the testimony dry.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Was the line that they just try.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
You have to do this is not the stuff you
see in movies and on TV. They only show you
the very exciting ima.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
You can't handle the true thing.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yes, this was more of a yes. On that date,
he traveled from here to there. As you can see
by the credit card statement. The invoice suggests that that's
what they've been listening to for a full day.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
And they've been listening to baby oil and sex parties
and mail as scords.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
So that is a big departure, big departure.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
So the defense, I excuse me, the prosecution who put
this witness up has been trying to and has been
going through, yes, a lot of that meticulous stuff, but
also going through a lot of text message exchanges, again
trying to bolster the claim that Cassie and others were
not consensual partners in all this. Now, they used the
prosecution some really damning text messages that Cassie was writing
(09:48):
at the time. But the prosecution finishes up. The defense
gets up there and starts asking about other text messages
as well, and then ask the guy, Okay, you didn't
why didn't you mention this one when the prosecution was
talking to you. The point there being the defense got
up there and used this witness to highlight a bunch
of positive text messages in fact, that Cassie had sent
(10:10):
to Diddy.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
We willes. I'm going to start here with what do
you want to do? The good ones are the bad ones? First?
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Well, let's start.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
I always like the bad news first and then the
good news at the end. But when we say bad
news for Ditty, good news for Ditty, So whatever side
of the venture on, I don't want to make it
seem as though we're saying one's good ones.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Using the ugly ones.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
We want to use the Let's start with the prosecution
the prosecution had their witness read aloud some of these
text exchanges that are very damning towards Diddy did He writes, Baby,
I can't say it enough. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Now this yes, very important. I think you're about to
say the same thing. This is all these we were
talking about. Here are around that time of that video
we've all seen now from the hotel in which he
was dragging, beating, kicking Cassie in the hallway of the hotel.
But these are some of the exchanges they were they
shared about.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
That, and this is fascinating because this is in the
aftermath of all of that. Yes, so, Cassie writes back,
I still have crazy bruising from Friday. I would be
a dummy to subject myself to that possibly happening again.
When you get fucked up the wrong way, you always
want to show me that you have the power and
you knock me around. I'm not a rag doll. I'm
someone's child.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
That is uh, that's a tough one, and I don't know.
I say it's a tough one in that she recognized
she didn't need to be where she was exactly, and
she stayed and stayed. Look all reasons that Okay, please,
nobody take what we just said there as us in
some way blaming her, nothing like that. But she was aware,
(11:42):
and it's very very she laid out the way all
of us think when we saw.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
That video, how could you do this? She should never
deal with him again.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
He must be out of his mind. And this is
somebody's child. She is not your place. That we all
have the same and her line, I would be crazy
to subject myself to.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
That again, and I and honestly that it makes you feel.
It's very relatable because she's acknowledging it. She knows it
deep down, she knows that it's wrong. She knows that
she shouldn't continue to put herself in his.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Path basically, so to speak.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
But she loves him, or she needs him, or she
felt like she was financially.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
There you go, that's the prost without him coursed co worst.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yes, So Cassie also texted him this around the same time.
Nothing good comes out of freak offs anymore. You treat
me like Ike Turner's.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Again, another damning message that they went through exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
And then the final fairly damning text that she wrote
to Ditty And we all know about this because we've
heard testimony around this big movie premiere that she had
in the days following the beating that we saw.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
On that video.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
She writes to Ditty, I have a premiere Monday for
the biggest thing I have ever done in my life.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
I have a black and a fat lip.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
You are sick for thinking it's okay to do what
you have done.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
To read her words are chilling in the moment. These
text messages are i mean, ten plus years old. Yeah,
that's just chilling to you know what you hear in
these At least she sounds calm, She seems reasonable, she
seems clear about what's happening and what she needs to do.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yeah, okay, so you hear that. The jury's thinking, wow, okay,
the prosecution is bolstering its case. I'm hearing from Cassie
from ten years ago to your point where this isn't
her remembering it or reflecting on it. This was her
in the moment, And they're damning. But then the defense says, hey,
I think you missed a few texts, and has the
(13:48):
witness read texts that sound very different.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
All this was about is to from the prosecution side,
you're trying to convince the jury like, here is all
of it evidence that he paid for this stuff and
she was being manipulated by him. The defense's job is
to show that she's a willing participant in all of this.
And so yeah, they go through the text message that
(14:13):
prove one thing. I don't know, Rose, what is it
supposed to prove this other side these other text message
it suggests a different relationship than the one we've been hearing.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
So much about this.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
So let's read them, and you the listener, can decide.
But it is confusing, and I can't imagine being a
juror hearing both of these types of text messages saying
very different things. So in one of the texts, Cassie
writes to Diditty, I love you so much. You make
me a better woman, daughter, sister.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
And keep in mind, folks, these are not like in
the first couple of weeks or months that they were
full in freak off mode.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
When these texts are.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Being well, speaking of one of the other texts, she wrote,
I'm always ready for a freak off again.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
The proscius will say she was only doing that to
make him happy, and she's only saying that stuff because this.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Is what he wanted.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Then she texts, I'll be the nastiest freak bitch again.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
These are for the defense.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
They will say, see, look she's willing prosecution. Same argument,
She's just trying to make them happy.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Next text, I bought the sexiest outfit for later. Okay,
I've been really horny. And then she even references role playing,
where she texts Ditty this the game starts at ten pm.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
No texting after this.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I am not Cassie and you are not Sean.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
They were into some different stuff.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Okay, but you just said they were into they different stuff,
and so when you say they are into different stuff,
it really does raise a question about what her level
of willing participation was. From those texts, it certainly sounds
like whether she was trying to make him happy or not,
she certainly was letting him know that she was into it.
So you could argue that Diddy didn't know she was
(16:00):
just saying those things to make him happy. He could
reasonably read those texts and think she was genuinely into it.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
How was he supposed to know?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I think I asked you this question yesterday or the
day before, and we've been talking so many conversations about
this and the complexity of this case, and I think
complexity of relationships. But okay, is it still possible that
she could have genuinely meant every word she read or
(16:32):
every word you read in those text messages? She wants
to be nasty, got a nice outfit, and she's genuinely excited. Sure,
but does that mean she is disqualified from being a
victim on later occasions? Right, and she's not. But for
a juror deciding whether or not to put a man
in prison for the rest of his life, that's a
tough question they got to deal with.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
It is tough.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
And when we were discussing this off, Mike, you mentioned
can someone have consensual sex with someone to twenty times
and the twenty first time it'd be rape? And the
answer is yes, So that is also something to consider.
I don't envy the jury with this. I think this
is an incredibly, as you said, complicated, complex, confusing, even
(17:16):
situation where it's hard to know because if you take
her for her word when she says I'm somebody's daughter,
you treat me like I turn her. How do you
then not also take her at her word when she
writes I'm ready for a freak off.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
The prosecution argument is that she was doing that to
make him happy, is their argument throughout. It's how many
alternates are they speaking?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
I think we said we believe there were six. They've
got enough, do they?
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Let's hope, because they could literally by this time next
week could be down three the down one now, a
second one's on the fence, a third one might be
in the hospital by this time.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, in a couple of days.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
The judge did not mention at all this Juror number seven,
did he? Because he was going to address that. But
obviously this new drama, this breaking news of this sick
juror now probably usurped anything he was considering ruling on.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Wait, what happened to you?
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Remember he said he was going to address it at
the end of the day yesterday. We're expecting him to
address it this morning. What is going on with Juror
number seven? He keeps kind of kicking the can.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Well, he kicked the can for Juror number six. He
let that go on for a couple of days. Maybe
he was taking time to consider that's fair and weighing
what each side has said.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
I don't even do you know if the.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Prosecution how they feel on this or the defense what
their take is on juror number seven.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
I haven't heard who's fighting to possibly keep them.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Because it could work against both of their cases. We
don't know what he said, and I don't know if
the judge has access to what because one would have
to assume that whoever he told either told the court
or he told someone who told someone and it got
to the court that way. But if they were alerted
that he was discussing it, the question would be in
what vain was he discussing it? Was he saying he
(19:08):
was this or that? And so that could put a
spotlight on where that juror was thinking, and that could
cause problems. So I don't know if the defense or
the prosecution how they feel about this juror.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
You know, that's right, he should take all the time.
He can't after all this this trial. Who knows how
many millions of dollars has cost taxpayers on this to
have to start it over. You don't want to mistrial,
You don't want to run out of jurors, and you
don't actually you also don't want to set up something
for an easy appeal. So the judge has a difficult
job for By all accounts, it seems like he's doing
(19:41):
a good job throughout this case, but he has a
difficult job and he does it. He wants a decision
from this jury. That's his number one goal is for
justice in this thing, and jurors keep making headlines.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
What's next, well, we shall see, but certainly we will
be on top of it. Any new developments, we will
bring them to you. But thank you all for listening
in and coming along with us for this very adventurous trial,
nonel like we've ever seen before. But we appreciate your
time with us, and we hope you all have a
wonderful day today.
Hey, folks, it is Wednesday, June eighteenth. Today is day
twenty sixth of the sixth week of testimony in the
Diddy trial, and jurors keep making headlines. Welcome to this
episode of Amy and TJ.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
We continue to be your.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
One stop shop to keep you updated on everything going
on in the Diddy trial and Robes. I say, it's
to day twenty sixth of testimony. But lo and behold,
as we sit here, there will not be testimony today because.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Of a juror.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
That's right, and it's not the juror that we thought
might be causing all of the headlines. Initially, we were
expecting that the judge may make his decision about Juror
number seven, that's the second juror that potentially could have
been removed from the jury because he was alleged to
have been discussing the case with a work colleague. And
(00:51):
so we didn't hear about that juror. Instead, we heard
about a sick juror.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Sick, like of all the things I was anticipating, today,
no testimony. They will not have a day of the
Diddy trial today because a juror is sick. Now I
immediately thought, well, wait, what the hell.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
There's been so much.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Weird stuff going on, so I thought something might be
out something else strange.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
But this is pretty serious. If anybody has had.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Vertigo, yes I've experienced it before. You have incredibly dizzy,
you feel very nauseated. But the thing is, just because
you have vertigo symptoms doesn't mean you have vertico. I mean,
I'm imagining if you feel or if this juror felt
that ill, or that unwell and that dizzy and nauseated,
that juror probably needs to go to the doctor, maybe
even the emergency room to rule out other more serious conditions,
(01:38):
because that could be something much more significant. And so
because of that, the judge even said in court today,
I mean everyone was there, everyone showed up, they were
all waiting. They're going to have to inquire further about
the condition of this juror because is this a one
time event, is this a today only issue, or is
this something more serious going forward? Does this juror will
(02:00):
this juror need to be ultimately replaced?
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Wow, for testimony to resume, we.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Are talking now robes about the potential for now three
of the twelve jurors who started in the Ditty trial
might end up off the jury and three alternates put
in that could change the demographics. It could change this
makeup drastically.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
And who knows what.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
We know one black guy has been replaced by a
white guy. We know that defense was fighting tooth and
nail trying to keep that black guy who was a
nineties hip hop fan on.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
I wonder why.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
But still this is just incredible to me now and
the juror to your point. And look, if anybody I
haven't had vertigo, I've been around people with it.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It's debilitating.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
You can't function, No, you actually can't walk, you can't
fund look straight. And again, for me, the nausea was
so bad. I've had it twice in my life and
the only thing that helped it was to take some dramamine,
which usually knocks you out and makes you tired. But again,
I really think unless this juror is someone who has
experienced this multiple time in their lives, is going to
have to do some further investigating as to what and
(03:04):
why they're actually going through this.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
And we don't know anything about this.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Juror, male, female, black, white, I don't I didn't see
any details about specifically who this juror was they I.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Give a juror number right when they were talking about
on this one.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
We know duror number seven is potentially hanging in the balance.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Durre number six is off. We don't know what number
juror this one is.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
And again this is relevant for a number of reasons,
as we just explained, But the one we haven't talked
about yet is how big of a deal it is
because of timing throughout. We're in week six and I
think Robes, I go back to week two or some
very early on when the prosecution said, hey, we are
ahead of schedule. They've been talking about this for a while.
We are doing good. We're ahead of schedule. We're going
(03:44):
to be done this week. They told us last week
they thought they were going to be done today, even
that the prosecution was going to rest, if not today,
they said on Friday. So now where do we find ourselves? Robes,
no core today and it's June teenth tomorrow. They were
already scheduled to be off, So they're missing two full
(04:06):
days of testimony. What's that going to do to the timeline?
How's it going to push it? How much farther back?
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Now? Well, we know that the state. It's not the
state the fence at the prosecution has three more witnesses
to call, and one of them is a doozy.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
It's Brendan Paul.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
In fact, all the photographers outside the courtroom this morning
got pictures of him coming into court.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
He came in ready to testify.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
This is probably the big last star ish witness for
the prosecution. He was Ditty's personal assistant up until he
was arrested. Correct or what was his timeline as to
when he was Ditty's assistant in up to last years?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yeah, it was reason. But this is the guy a
lot of people labeled as the drug mule.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
He's yes, that's a terrible aka the drug mule.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
But anytime you read about him in any publication, they
refer to him as Ditty's drug mule, namely because he
was a rest did around the same time did he
was arrested after those raids on Ditty's mansions? And yes,
he had drug charges hanging over his head. Those have
all been removed. He is now not facing any charges
and he is now testifying for the prosecution. I'm sure
(05:14):
that is in exchange for testifying for the prosecution.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yes, and he's gotten an immunity deal already. The judge
grannam immunity yesterday. But to your point, Ropes, everybody was
suited and booted.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
They were ready to go this.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Morning, and this came kind of out of nowhere. So
I don't know how much time. I mean, they went
longer with a summary witness yesterday than they thought they
would go. How much will they go? How far would
they go with Brendan Paul. He seems to be a
very important witness. I can't imagine it going quickly. So
to our point about the timeline, now, we could be
going into next week that the prosecution is still putting
(05:49):
on its case and its witnesses. The defense wants two
to five days. They're predicting that's how long they will take.
So we were talking earlier this week that while the
jury's going to have this case by next week, now
it looks like that is not as likely of a scenario.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
I have read that it is unlikely and certainly almost
impossible that the prosecution would wrap its case on Friday.
They say it is absolutely going to bleed over into
next week for all that they have to do and
think about it.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
We talked about how dry.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
But important, but maybe kind of boring. These summary witnesses
have been, so you don't want to end.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
I wouldn't imagine.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Again, I'm no lawyer here, but I do understand wanting
to leave with an impression or at least something that
has the jury's thinking and remembering what they last heard
from the prosecution's case. And so someone like Brandon Paul
would be that person. So you want to make sure
you give the jury something to remember with one of
(06:46):
your final witnesses.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
One im I say, I totally forgot the other thing.
They're out today unexpectedly, they're off tomorrow for Juneteenth, and
they're only doing a half day on Friday because one
of the jurors another jury issue. They're letting a juror
go to a graduate. I think, well, that makes sense,
that does, and that's not I'm actually really pleased to
see that a court, a federal court, will grant that.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
But so this is a week that we thought we
were going to see a lot of testimony. We're not
getting as much as we thought.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
So the prosecution may go into Tuesday with that kind
of a schedule, and they have three more witnesses, and
one of them we know is going to be a
big deal for the prosecution. And because it's a big
deal for the prosecution, the defense obviously is going to
want to take their turn with brend and Paul as
well to try and undo any damage he may do
to Ditty's case or to Ditty's defense at least. So
(07:33):
I think most people think this, yeah, we and then
so we're pushing up against the fourth of July now
for the defense to rest.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Again on Friday with the half day still. We've seen
a lot of times they come into court and they're
arguing about something before court even gets started.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
They've been one.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Day, they went two hours, yes, before the jury even
came in.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Now, the court did take care of business this morning
while they were trying to figure out what they were
going to do with the juror, and they were going
back and forth again while the jury wasn't there, taking
advantage of that to try and figure out whether or
not certain text messages were admissible. These text messages the
prosecution wanted in I believe it was an exchange between
Diddy and an alleged drug dealer. The defense did not
(08:14):
want those text exchanges in. But as we're on the
subject of text messages, we found out a lot and
it wasn't necessarily even what the prosecution was putting forward
with the summary witness going over text, but it was
what the defense was able to do with that witness
and getting the federal agent to describe text messages that
the prosecution was skipping over was leaving out during the
(08:37):
testimony understandably. So when you heard what those text messages were,
this was.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
All about, Okay, I keep going to the Washington Posts
because they called the testimony dry.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Was the line that they just try.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
You have to do this is not the stuff you
see in movies and on TV. They only show you
the very exciting ima.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
You can't handle the true thing.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yes, this was more of a yes. On that date,
he traveled from here to there. As you can see
by the credit card statement. The invoice suggests that that's
what they've been listening to for a full day.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
And they've been listening to baby oil and sex parties
and mail as scords.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
So that is a big departure, big departure.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
So the defense, I excuse me, the prosecution who put
this witness up has been trying to and has been
going through, yes, a lot of that meticulous stuff, but
also going through a lot of text message exchanges, again
trying to bolster the claim that Cassie and others were
not consensual partners in all this. Now, they used the
prosecution some really damning text messages that Cassie was writing
(09:48):
at the time. But the prosecution finishes up. The defense
gets up there and starts asking about other text messages
as well, and then ask the guy, Okay, you didn't
why didn't you mention this one when the prosecution was
talking to you. The point there being the defense got
up there and used this witness to highlight a bunch
of positive text messages in fact, that Cassie had sent
(10:10):
to Diddy.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
We willes. I'm going to start here with what do
you want to do? The good ones are the bad ones? First?
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Well, let's start.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
I always like the bad news first and then the
good news at the end. But when we say bad
news for Ditty, good news for Ditty, So whatever side
of the venture on, I don't want to make it
seem as though we're saying one's good ones.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Using the ugly ones.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
We want to use the Let's start with the prosecution
the prosecution had their witness read aloud some of these
text exchanges that are very damning towards Diddy did He writes, Baby,
I can't say it enough. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Now this yes, very important. I think you're about to
say the same thing. This is all these we were
talking about. Here are around that time of that video
we've all seen now from the hotel in which he
was dragging, beating, kicking Cassie in the hallway of the hotel.
But these are some of the exchanges they were they
shared about.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
That, and this is fascinating because this is in the
aftermath of all of that. Yes, so, Cassie writes back,
I still have crazy bruising from Friday. I would be
a dummy to subject myself to that possibly happening again.
When you get fucked up the wrong way, you always
want to show me that you have the power and
you knock me around. I'm not a rag doll. I'm
someone's child.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
That is uh, that's a tough one, and I don't know.
I say it's a tough one in that she recognized
she didn't need to be where she was exactly, and
she stayed and stayed. Look all reasons that Okay, please,
nobody take what we just said there as us in
some way blaming her, nothing like that. But she was aware,
(11:42):
and it's very very she laid out the way all
of us think when we saw.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
That video, how could you do this? She should never
deal with him again.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
He must be out of his mind. And this is
somebody's child. She is not your place. That we all
have the same and her line, I would be crazy
to subject myself to.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
That again, and I and honestly that it makes you feel.
It's very relatable because she's acknowledging it. She knows it
deep down, she knows that it's wrong. She knows that
she shouldn't continue to put herself in his.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Path basically, so to speak.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
But she loves him, or she needs him, or she
felt like she was financially.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
There you go, that's the prost without him coursed co worst.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yes, So Cassie also texted him this around the same time.
Nothing good comes out of freak offs anymore. You treat
me like Ike Turner's.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Again, another damning message that they went through exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
And then the final fairly damning text that she wrote
to Ditty And we all know about this because we've
heard testimony around this big movie premiere that she had
in the days following the beating that we saw.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
On that video.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
She writes to Ditty, I have a premiere Monday for
the biggest thing I have ever done in my life.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
I have a black and a fat lip.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
You are sick for thinking it's okay to do what
you have done.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
To read her words are chilling in the moment. These
text messages are i mean, ten plus years old. Yeah,
that's just chilling to you know what you hear in
these At least she sounds calm, She seems reasonable, she
seems clear about what's happening and what she needs to do.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yeah, okay, so you hear that. The jury's thinking, wow, okay,
the prosecution is bolstering its case. I'm hearing from Cassie
from ten years ago to your point where this isn't
her remembering it or reflecting on it. This was her
in the moment, And they're damning. But then the defense says, hey,
I think you missed a few texts, and has the
(13:48):
witness read texts that sound very different.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
All this was about is to from the prosecution side,
you're trying to convince the jury like, here is all
of it evidence that he paid for this stuff and
she was being manipulated by him. The defense's job is
to show that she's a willing participant in all of this.
And so yeah, they go through the text message that
(14:13):
prove one thing. I don't know, Rose, what is it
supposed to prove this other side these other text message
it suggests a different relationship than the one we've been hearing.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
So much about this.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
So let's read them, and you the listener, can decide.
But it is confusing, and I can't imagine being a
juror hearing both of these types of text messages saying
very different things. So in one of the texts, Cassie
writes to Diditty, I love you so much. You make
me a better woman, daughter, sister.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
And keep in mind, folks, these are not like in
the first couple of weeks or months that they were
full in freak off mode.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
When these texts are.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Being well, speaking of one of the other texts, she wrote,
I'm always ready for a freak off again.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
The proscius will say she was only doing that to
make him happy, and she's only saying that stuff because this.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Is what he wanted.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Then she texts, I'll be the nastiest freak bitch again.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
These are for the defense.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
They will say, see, look she's willing prosecution. Same argument,
She's just trying to make them happy.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Next text, I bought the sexiest outfit for later. Okay,
I've been really horny. And then she even references role playing,
where she texts Ditty this the game starts at ten pm.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
No texting after this.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I am not Cassie and you are not Sean.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
They were into some different stuff.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Okay, but you just said they were into they different stuff,
and so when you say they are into different stuff,
it really does raise a question about what her level
of willing participation was. From those texts, it certainly sounds
like whether she was trying to make him happy or not,
she certainly was letting him know that she was into it.
So you could argue that Diddy didn't know she was
(16:00):
just saying those things to make him happy. He could
reasonably read those texts and think she was genuinely into it.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
How was he supposed to know?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I think I asked you this question yesterday or the
day before, and we've been talking so many conversations about
this and the complexity of this case, and I think
complexity of relationships. But okay, is it still possible that
she could have genuinely meant every word she read or
(16:32):
every word you read in those text messages? She wants
to be nasty, got a nice outfit, and she's genuinely excited. Sure,
but does that mean she is disqualified from being a
victim on later occasions? Right, and she's not. But for
a juror deciding whether or not to put a man
in prison for the rest of his life, that's a
tough question they got to deal with.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
It is tough.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
And when we were discussing this off, Mike, you mentioned
can someone have consensual sex with someone to twenty times
and the twenty first time it'd be rape? And the
answer is yes, So that is also something to consider.
I don't envy the jury with this. I think this
is an incredibly, as you said, complicated, complex, confusing, even
(17:16):
situation where it's hard to know because if you take
her for her word when she says I'm somebody's daughter,
you treat me like I turn her. How do you
then not also take her at her word when she
writes I'm ready for a freak off.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
The prosecution argument is that she was doing that to
make him happy, is their argument throughout. It's how many
alternates are they speaking?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
I think we said we believe there were six. They've
got enough, do they?
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Let's hope, because they could literally by this time next
week could be down three the down one now, a
second one's on the fence, a third one might be
in the hospital by this time.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, in a couple of days.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
The judge did not mention at all this Juror number seven,
did he? Because he was going to address that. But
obviously this new drama, this breaking news of this sick
juror now probably usurped anything he was considering ruling on.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Wait, what happened to you?
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Remember he said he was going to address it at
the end of the day yesterday. We're expecting him to
address it this morning. What is going on with Juror
number seven? He keeps kind of kicking the can.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Well, he kicked the can for Juror number six. He
let that go on for a couple of days. Maybe
he was taking time to consider that's fair and weighing
what each side has said.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
I don't even do you know if the.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Prosecution how they feel on this or the defense what
their take is on juror number seven.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
I haven't heard who's fighting to possibly keep them.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Because it could work against both of their cases. We
don't know what he said, and I don't know if
the judge has access to what because one would have
to assume that whoever he told either told the court
or he told someone who told someone and it got
to the court that way. But if they were alerted
that he was discussing it, the question would be in
what vain was he discussing it? Was he saying he
(19:08):
was this or that? And so that could put a
spotlight on where that juror was thinking, and that could
cause problems. So I don't know if the defense or
the prosecution how they feel about this juror.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
You know, that's right, he should take all the time.
He can't after all this this trial. Who knows how
many millions of dollars has cost taxpayers on this to
have to start it over. You don't want to mistrial,
You don't want to run out of jurors, and you
don't actually you also don't want to set up something
for an easy appeal. So the judge has a difficult
job for By all accounts, it seems like he's doing
(19:41):
a good job throughout this case, but he has a
difficult job and he does it. He wants a decision
from this jury. That's his number one goal is for
justice in this thing, and jurors keep making headlines.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
What's next, well, we shall see, but certainly we will
be on top of it. Any new developments, we will
bring them to you. But thank you all for listening
in and coming along with us for this very adventurous trial,
nonel like we've ever seen before. But we appreciate your
time with us, and we hope you all have a
wonderful day today.
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