June 19, 2025 • 18 mins
For anyone still wondering if Diddy will testify at his trial, Amy and T. J. point out the clearest indication we’ve gotten so far about what he plans to do. And, a federal holiday and a sick juror are throwing the trial a bit off schedule.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey there, folks. It is Thursday, June nineteenth. We are
wrapping up the sixth week of testimony and the Didty trial,
and two major questions remain. One will Diddy testify? Two?
When will this thing end? And with that, welcome to
this episode of AB and TJ. We continue to update
you on what's going on right now. Nothing going on
(00:23):
in court, of course, robes off of the Juneteenth holiday,
but still a lot going on behind the scenes. They're
off today. That might be a problem for the judge schedule.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
That's right, because they knew they were going to be
off today today, of course as a federal holiday juneteenth,
June nineteenth. I mixed those two together, mash them up together.
But yesterday was the surprise, of course, that there was
no testimony because a juror went home sick. So now
they have to make up for that lost time from Wednesday,
(00:56):
of course, the lost day today and Friday. Now the
prosecution has to pick up where they thought they were
beginning on Wednesday, and.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Just a half day on Friday as well. That messes
with the schedule, which they're off a half that's a
half day for a good reason. One of the jurors
has I think a sun's graduation. So they're letting them
do that. I think that's really nice to hear. That's
one of the kinder sides of the federal government, I
guess in the federal court system, I should say I
thought it was nice.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
That is nice, But it does extend the timeline from
what they thought they were going to be able to
hand over the part of the trial to the defense.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Now looks like that's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Tuesday at the earliest, but maybe even as late as Wednesday,
because the prosecution still has three witnesses to put on
the stand, and a big one indeed in Ditty's former
assistant Brendan Paul, who has been duped aka Ditty's drug mule.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
But yeah, he was there and ready to go yesterday.
Everybody was ready to go, and then we got the
word about the sick juror. But if we go back robes,
the timeline from the very beginning was always the judge
says he wants this thing wrapped up by the fourth
the July. He has stuck to that. The prosecution started,
they actually kept shrinking their timeline of how long they
would take. It was six weeks and five and they
(02:10):
so they're kind of wrapping up on time. They haven't
drawn things out. The defense said initially they wanted two
to three weeks.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
And that's when a lot of folks thought that perhaps
that might mean that Sean Combs, Diddy himself, might get
up and take the stand, although most defense lawyers would
tell you that's not usually the best course of action.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
But who knows, with someone as well.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
He's larger than life, someone with the ego the size
of Diddy might actually want to take the stand.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
You one out, find me one. I want to find
one lawyer who would say I would recommend he take
the stand. I would love to hear that argument.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
It's almost never the case because of what can happen
during cross examine in a case.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Like this when the can you imagine giving the state
the right to ask him anything and he has to
tell the truth because he's under oath. That's just not
this not happened.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Yes, and take the fifth probably wouldn't look good.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
So it's a no win situation for most defense clients,
and specifically when you're somebody like Diddy. But still, when
they said two to three weeks, that did have a
lot of people wondering with that much time, who would
be on the stand for that long where they would
need that much because obviously, I think most folks know
who are listening in the court of law and a
criminal proceeding, the defense doesn't even have to put up
(03:22):
a defense.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
They really don't. They don't have to put anyone on
the stand.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
It is the burden of proof is solely and completely
on the shoulders of the prosecution.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
It only seems so ballsy to me when I see it.
Has seen some cases over the years where they say
no questions for the witness, no questions for the witness
when the prosecution is putting on and in your case,
we have nothing.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
The defense rest in the defense rest, And.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I'm like, wow, y'all they feel real good. You'll try something.
Put his mom up there, let us say do anything.
That's always interesting to me.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
And so so now the question is two to five days.
They may be toying with who to put up on
the stand. But it doesn't appear as though I think,
you don't look anything can happen. But I think it's
a very safe bet at this point that we can
say with a fair amount of certainty that Diddy is
not going to be taking the stand in the defense
of himself.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
We would say that anyway, But after we hear the
two to five days, obviously it would take a lot
longer if he was going to be on the stand.
So that moves the timeline you were looking at the calendar.
So if all this the best, the most likely scenarios
are that the prosecution won't rest until Monday.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
But that so with a half day on Friday all
day on Monday, there is a chance that they.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Could still bleed into Tuesday. But I think Tuesday at
the lad.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Let's go with Tuesday the defense starts putting on its case.
Or will the judge say go home or go home
for the day and come back tomorrow and start fresh.
Will he nah, he wants to save time.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I think it's a pretty decent guestimation that the defense
will begin its case no later than Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Tuesday, okay, So let's go they take two days that
at least, I mean, let's stay safe, they go through
the end of the week.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I think that's probably likely.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Okay, So then we go to the following.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Week, which is the week of the fourth of July.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Okay, So June thirtieth, is the Monday. Don't have that right?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yes, June thirtieth is the Monday, and then one.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Two three, so that would give them a few days
to deliberate before the fourth of July holiday.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yes, and most juries will anyone who served on a
jury will tell you that that is foremost on many
of their minds, especially with the big holiday like this,
which is a big part of family and fun, and
there aren't many fun holidays in the summertime.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
This is the big one.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And so yeah, I think that the jury is going
to be highly motivated and incentivized to come back with
a verdict by July third, which would be that Thursday.
It actually would be two weeks from today, two weeks
from today. The hope would be that the jury would
come back with a verdict.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
You brought up a funny point. The idea of right,
we already had one juror dismissed for being a little
shady about where he lived. Another one is being talked
about right now for possibly discussing the case with the colleague.
The idea of twelve ditty jurors going to family gatherings, and.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
The alternates too. Because they can't they can't talk about
it either.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
But the idea that they go to a family gathering,
every single family member is coming up and asking about
the trial.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
You are the most popular person at whatever gathering you're at, period,
no question.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
And do you think if you've.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Had a couple oina or whatever it is you choose
to drink and relax with on the fourth of July,
your lips might get a little looser. I think they might, Oh, yeah,
this is gonna be Hey, everybody gather around.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Don't tell nobody I told you all this. Oh goodness great. Yeah,
they can't turn them loose for the fourth of July.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
But if they but I was just imagining, what if, okay,
say that the defense goes a full five days, and
what if they can't come to an agreement. The judge
may have to say, don't talk to anybody, don't talk
to anyone at your barbecue, don't talk to your family,
and just have to hope that that's the case, because
you can't. I mean, there's no way that they would
(07:08):
push the jury to make a quick decision.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
And I imagine they the fourth of July is also a.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Federal holiday, correct, so they automatically are going to be
off on the fourth of July, which is a Friday
this year.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yes, Yeah, which is.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Going to be even a bigger party, a bigger celebration,
bigger fireworks. Yeah, by July third, people are already getting
ready to party.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
That's tough. And think about Diddy and that just for
everybody in this case to think we have an extra
day or long weekend to wait or something like that,
that's tough. I know the judge wants to get this done,
but it's can you imagine waiting for your fate and
then having to wait through a three day weekend.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Look, and these charges are complicated and they're they're not
you know, a lot of folks aren't familiar with what
does it take. What is the burden of proof for racketeering?
What is the burden of proof for is it sex trafficking?
I mean, there's just there are These are complicated federal
charges that require a lot of I would I'm sure
(08:07):
they're going to be asking questions and asking for further explanation.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
This isn't just a cut or dry case.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, and do you know he's only been having court
from nine to three every day, But he'll let them
deliver it as long as they want to during the days,
won't they.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I mean, the judge's up to the judge's discretion and
whatever the court hours are.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yeah, because everybody has this day.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Wow. But to your we were talking about this before
we started recording and saying, well, how quickly can we
just raise our hand and guilty, guilty? You have to
go through all this stuff and you were just reeling
it off. It was hard to keep up with. There's
one count of racketeering conspiracy. Now if you go into
the jury room, first thing, what is that?
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Rico? Everyone says rico, And that's.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Complicated as hell to me, Yes it is. And then
the other words two counts of sex trafficking and then
two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution. Some of
that seems cutting dry based on some.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Of the evidence we've seen.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah, absolutely, but transportation to engage in I still would
have to look up exactly what that means, and they
exactly follow the law. And if you pay for this
ticket but not that ticket doesn't mean this, and it's
it is. I can't imagine to what we were saying here,
the jury going in there and being able to come
up with a verdict in a day, two days.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
That seems like that is very hard to imagine that
happening in this case with what is on the line. Also,
I think most of these jurors it would be hard
not to consider this as a human being. This isn't
just a case where you're deciding somebody is going to
go away for a couple of years. This is a
case where you're deciding whether or not someone who most
of these folks have probably at least listen to, some
(10:02):
of whom probably have long admired this person, who now
if they rule in a certain way, will he will
be behind bars for the rest of his life. The
gravity of that, the weight of that, the responsibility of that,
I imagine in and of itself, would give each juror
more pause to carefully consider this. And if you just
(10:22):
have one person who doesn't want to vote to convict,
one person who feels unsure about his guilt or innocence,
that can hold everything up. And you know, we've seen
in a recent jury where you had someone come and
tell the judge, I feel unsafe to go back to
that deliberating room. This is, of course, in the Harvey
(10:43):
Weinstein trial here again in Lower Manhattan, just this past week.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
They deliberated for three days.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
They were fine on the first few charges, but when
it came to the rape charge, the most serious charge,
one jur just would not agree with the other eleven jurors. Yeah,
that Harvey Weinstein was and actually ended up going to
the judge saying, I don't feel safe going back to
this jury room because he was the only one who
didn't want to convict on that charge. So, you know,
(11:09):
anything can happen. You can have a split decision, you
can have a hung jury, but it also depends on
the judge to decide how long you'll let the jury
sit out before you end up declaring a hung jury. So,
I mean, there's just so many different outcomes. It would
be wonderful if it were all wrapped up by July fourth.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
But I think it's possible, but it's not a guarantee.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
But to get twelve people, that's right, twelve people have
to agree on everything if just one. You mentioned so
much of the emotion and what you know of the
guy and what's at stake, and then after hearing the
emotional testimony of the women and you, so much is
weighing on you and the decision I didn't think about
it that way that it's very personal to a lot
(11:51):
of these jurors. I thought it was complicated and it
was heavy, but it is emotionally confusing a lot of
what we have heard that does weigh in a decision,
but the get twelve people to agree.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I don't know the other thing I was thinking about,
and we can get more into this, I think in
some of the episodes that we will put out when
we're waiting for the verdict, or at least if there's
some time.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Because another thought that I had about all.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Of these women who came forward, especially even I mean,
we had Mia testified under a pseudonym, we had Jane
testifying under a pseudonym, and several of these employees who
were compelled to testify, they were given immunity. What happens
if Ditty is found not guilty? Are they concerned? Are
(12:40):
they concerned about retribution? Are they concerned about their safety?
Is there any protection put in place for any of
these folks who said they did what they did because
they were afraid of Ditty?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
What happened?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
So there's just so many questions and so much is
on the line, not just for Ditty but for the
folks for the people who bravely or in some.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Cases were forced to testify.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Against him, what happens to them if he isn't behind bars.
I just I've had all of these thoughts, or you know,
there's got to be so many people who are having
sleepless nights until the outcome of this trial is known.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Okay, well, we're going to have as a country maybe
a sleepless night if if he walks after this trial,
and then we're all confused as to why we heard
horror after horror after horror, and we saw videotape of
(13:33):
the horror. But he's not going to serve any time
and no punishment for that. Now, what does that do
When you mentioned survivors, when you mentioned people who have
be interview women in particular, to see this trial, this
high profile, what had what these women were forced to
talk about in the public, and after all that, my
(13:55):
abuser is going home, that's going I just.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Got chills from head to toe because this isn't just
about Diddy, and this isn't even just about these particular victims.
And I think regardless of the outcome, it's fair to
say we've said this in the podcast and I think
most people would agree that these women were victimized in
some way, shape or form, and whether or not they
were complicit in other acts or not, they were still
victimized in a lot of ways. But what this will
(14:22):
do to future cases, to current cases that are out there,
How does this impact women or men or anyone who
has felt abused or undermined or didn't feel like they
had the power to speak up for themselves or get
out of a situation. It just creates an environment where
you feel like you can't win again, that you're revictimized
(14:43):
by the justice system, and there is no such thing
as actual justice. I mean, there are so many ripple
effects that could come from this trial. Because it's being
watched so closely, and because the details have been so salacious.
It's something that people not only are paying attention to,
but some also something that they won't forget, and it
may affect future trials or future it may affect the
(15:07):
ability of people to come forward in the future.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I mean, to put yourself out there like this. I
know it as a part of a legal case. They
were subpoena that they had to be there, but still
to be I mean, some of the stuff. They admit
they we heard the word how many times humiliating? Was embarrassing?
They felt shame. Then they had to live it all
again on the stand and have it recited all over
the world. I to do that. There are plenty of
(15:31):
women who are watching this who are going through some
kind of hell right now in some relationship and watching
that and feeling more and more helpless as the clock ticks,
because what does justice look like. Look every blow you
saw him land to cassivent, to refine, he's not being
charged with that. So that to a lot of people
(15:53):
is confusing. And so the government's going after all this
big stuff. Okay, that's fine, but that's what was the
Amber heard right whomen that Johnny Depp Amber heard there
was a big conversation about abuse at the time, and
what would that do to victims? And do it about
coming forward? Because she she came forward, then she ends
up being sued, right it was. So this was a
(16:15):
fascinating one to me.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Well, And the tough thing about this case in particular
is that this wasn't a case in which any of
these women went to police. It was only years later
that they went to a lawyer and then pursued it
with civil charges and with a financial ask tied to
the end of it, and that is also something that
has a lot of folks questioning motives and questioning whether
(16:38):
or not these women were actually victims or if they
were looking for another way to be financially compensated for
what they went through, which is there is a difference
between the two. So you know, there are a lot
of questions and there's going to be a lot of
Monday morning quarterbacking when this trial is over.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
But it has been fascinating from start to now.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
We're in the middle of this and honestly, I think
what will happen in terms of what the defense will
present and how the jury will go through all of
this confusing information and make a determination about what they
think what justice looks like, what it is. This is
going to be studied for a long time and I'm fascinated.
And the truth is, no one knows what's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
No one.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Well, we think we know what's going to happen tomorrow.
They are supposed to be back in court tomorrow. We
haven't gotten official word that all is good with the
juror as of this recording at least, But if that's
the case, I'll be back in there nine am. But
going to wrap by one, I think in the afternoon
and that'll be it for the day. So we will
see if the prosecution does actually rest its case.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Yeah, but we will keep you updated.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
We'll keep our eyes on any new information that may
come down today that could affect tomorrow. But in the meantime,
we hope you are enjoying your Juneteenth today and we
hope you'll check us out for the next episode that
drops
Hey there, folks. It is Thursday, June nineteenth. We are
wrapping up the sixth week of testimony and the Didty trial,
and two major questions remain. One will Diddy testify? Two?
When will this thing end? And with that, welcome to
this episode of AB and TJ. We continue to update
you on what's going on right now. Nothing going on
(00:23):
in court, of course, robes off of the Juneteenth holiday,
but still a lot going on behind the scenes. They're
off today. That might be a problem for the judge schedule.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
That's right, because they knew they were going to be
off today today, of course as a federal holiday juneteenth,
June nineteenth. I mixed those two together, mash them up together.
But yesterday was the surprise, of course, that there was
no testimony because a juror went home sick. So now
they have to make up for that lost time from Wednesday,
(00:56):
of course, the lost day today and Friday. Now the
prosecution has to pick up where they thought they were
beginning on Wednesday, and.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Just a half day on Friday as well. That messes
with the schedule, which they're off a half that's a
half day for a good reason. One of the jurors
has I think a sun's graduation. So they're letting them
do that. I think that's really nice to hear. That's
one of the kinder sides of the federal government, I
guess in the federal court system, I should say I
thought it was nice.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
That is nice, But it does extend the timeline from
what they thought they were going to be able to
hand over the part of the trial to the defense.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Now looks like that's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Tuesday at the earliest, but maybe even as late as Wednesday,
because the prosecution still has three witnesses to put on
the stand, and a big one indeed in Ditty's former
assistant Brendan Paul, who has been duped aka Ditty's drug mule.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
But yeah, he was there and ready to go yesterday.
Everybody was ready to go, and then we got the
word about the sick juror. But if we go back robes,
the timeline from the very beginning was always the judge
says he wants this thing wrapped up by the fourth
the July. He has stuck to that. The prosecution started,
they actually kept shrinking their timeline of how long they
would take. It was six weeks and five and they
(02:10):
so they're kind of wrapping up on time. They haven't
drawn things out. The defense said initially they wanted two
to three weeks.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
And that's when a lot of folks thought that perhaps
that might mean that Sean Combs, Diddy himself, might get
up and take the stand, although most defense lawyers would
tell you that's not usually the best course of action.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
But who knows, with someone as well.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
He's larger than life, someone with the ego the size
of Diddy might actually want to take the stand.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
You one out, find me one. I want to find
one lawyer who would say I would recommend he take
the stand. I would love to hear that argument.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
It's almost never the case because of what can happen
during cross examine in a case.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Like this when the can you imagine giving the state
the right to ask him anything and he has to
tell the truth because he's under oath. That's just not
this not happened.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Yes, and take the fifth probably wouldn't look good.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
So it's a no win situation for most defense clients,
and specifically when you're somebody like Diddy. But still, when
they said two to three weeks, that did have a
lot of people wondering with that much time, who would
be on the stand for that long where they would
need that much because obviously, I think most folks know
who are listening in the court of law and a
criminal proceeding, the defense doesn't even have to put up
(03:22):
a defense.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
They really don't. They don't have to put anyone on
the stand.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
It is the burden of proof is solely and completely
on the shoulders of the prosecution.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
It only seems so ballsy to me when I see it.
Has seen some cases over the years where they say
no questions for the witness, no questions for the witness
when the prosecution is putting on and in your case,
we have nothing.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
The defense rest in the defense rest, And.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I'm like, wow, y'all they feel real good. You'll try something.
Put his mom up there, let us say do anything.
That's always interesting to me.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
And so so now the question is two to five days.
They may be toying with who to put up on
the stand. But it doesn't appear as though I think,
you don't look anything can happen. But I think it's
a very safe bet at this point that we can
say with a fair amount of certainty that Diddy is
not going to be taking the stand in the defense
of himself.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
We would say that anyway, But after we hear the
two to five days, obviously it would take a lot
longer if he was going to be on the stand.
So that moves the timeline you were looking at the calendar.
So if all this the best, the most likely scenarios
are that the prosecution won't rest until Monday.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
But that so with a half day on Friday all
day on Monday, there is a chance that they.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Could still bleed into Tuesday. But I think Tuesday at
the lad.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Let's go with Tuesday the defense starts putting on its case.
Or will the judge say go home or go home
for the day and come back tomorrow and start fresh.
Will he nah, he wants to save time.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I think it's a pretty decent guestimation that the defense
will begin its case no later than Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Tuesday, okay, So let's go they take two days that
at least, I mean, let's stay safe, they go through
the end of the week.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I think that's probably likely.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Okay, So then we go to the following.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Week, which is the week of the fourth of July.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Okay, So June thirtieth, is the Monday. Don't have that right?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yes, June thirtieth is the Monday, and then one.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Two three, so that would give them a few days
to deliberate before the fourth of July holiday.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yes, and most juries will anyone who served on a
jury will tell you that that is foremost on many
of their minds, especially with the big holiday like this,
which is a big part of family and fun, and
there aren't many fun holidays in the summertime.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
This is the big one.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And so yeah, I think that the jury is going
to be highly motivated and incentivized to come back with
a verdict by July third, which would be that Thursday.
It actually would be two weeks from today, two weeks
from today. The hope would be that the jury would
come back with a verdict.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
You brought up a funny point. The idea of right,
we already had one juror dismissed for being a little
shady about where he lived. Another one is being talked
about right now for possibly discussing the case with the colleague.
The idea of twelve ditty jurors going to family gatherings, and.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
The alternates too. Because they can't they can't talk about
it either.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
But the idea that they go to a family gathering,
every single family member is coming up and asking about
the trial.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
You are the most popular person at whatever gathering you're at, period,
no question.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
And do you think if you've.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Had a couple oina or whatever it is you choose
to drink and relax with on the fourth of July,
your lips might get a little looser. I think they might, Oh, yeah,
this is gonna be Hey, everybody gather around.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Don't tell nobody I told you all this. Oh goodness great. Yeah,
they can't turn them loose for the fourth of July.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
But if they but I was just imagining, what if, okay,
say that the defense goes a full five days, and
what if they can't come to an agreement. The judge
may have to say, don't talk to anybody, don't talk
to anyone at your barbecue, don't talk to your family,
and just have to hope that that's the case, because
you can't. I mean, there's no way that they would
(07:08):
push the jury to make a quick decision.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
And I imagine they the fourth of July is also a.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Federal holiday, correct, so they automatically are going to be
off on the fourth of July, which is a Friday
this year.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yes, Yeah, which is.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Going to be even a bigger party, a bigger celebration,
bigger fireworks. Yeah, by July third, people are already getting
ready to party.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
That's tough. And think about Diddy and that just for
everybody in this case to think we have an extra
day or long weekend to wait or something like that,
that's tough. I know the judge wants to get this done,
but it's can you imagine waiting for your fate and
then having to wait through a three day weekend.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Look, and these charges are complicated and they're they're not
you know, a lot of folks aren't familiar with what
does it take. What is the burden of proof for racketeering?
What is the burden of proof for is it sex trafficking?
I mean, there's just there are These are complicated federal
charges that require a lot of I would I'm sure
(08:07):
they're going to be asking questions and asking for further explanation.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
This isn't just a cut or dry case.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, and do you know he's only been having court
from nine to three every day, But he'll let them
deliver it as long as they want to during the days,
won't they.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I mean, the judge's up to the judge's discretion and
whatever the court hours are.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yeah, because everybody has this day.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Wow. But to your we were talking about this before
we started recording and saying, well, how quickly can we
just raise our hand and guilty, guilty? You have to
go through all this stuff and you were just reeling
it off. It was hard to keep up with. There's
one count of racketeering conspiracy. Now if you go into
the jury room, first thing, what is that?
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Rico? Everyone says rico, And that's.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Complicated as hell to me, Yes it is. And then
the other words two counts of sex trafficking and then
two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution. Some of
that seems cutting dry based on some.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Of the evidence we've seen.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah, absolutely, but transportation to engage in I still would
have to look up exactly what that means, and they
exactly follow the law. And if you pay for this
ticket but not that ticket doesn't mean this, and it's
it is. I can't imagine to what we were saying here,
the jury going in there and being able to come
up with a verdict in a day, two days.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
That seems like that is very hard to imagine that
happening in this case with what is on the line. Also,
I think most of these jurors it would be hard
not to consider this as a human being. This isn't
just a case where you're deciding somebody is going to
go away for a couple of years. This is a
case where you're deciding whether or not someone who most
of these folks have probably at least listen to, some
(10:02):
of whom probably have long admired this person, who now
if they rule in a certain way, will he will
be behind bars for the rest of his life. The
gravity of that, the weight of that, the responsibility of that,
I imagine in and of itself, would give each juror
more pause to carefully consider this. And if you just
(10:22):
have one person who doesn't want to vote to convict,
one person who feels unsure about his guilt or innocence,
that can hold everything up. And you know, we've seen
in a recent jury where you had someone come and
tell the judge, I feel unsafe to go back to
that deliberating room. This is, of course, in the Harvey
(10:43):
Weinstein trial here again in Lower Manhattan, just this past week.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
They deliberated for three days.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
They were fine on the first few charges, but when
it came to the rape charge, the most serious charge,
one jur just would not agree with the other eleven jurors. Yeah,
that Harvey Weinstein was and actually ended up going to
the judge saying, I don't feel safe going back to
this jury room because he was the only one who
didn't want to convict on that charge. So, you know,
(11:09):
anything can happen. You can have a split decision, you
can have a hung jury, but it also depends on
the judge to decide how long you'll let the jury
sit out before you end up declaring a hung jury. So,
I mean, there's just so many different outcomes. It would
be wonderful if it were all wrapped up by July fourth.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
But I think it's possible, but it's not a guarantee.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
But to get twelve people, that's right, twelve people have
to agree on everything if just one. You mentioned so
much of the emotion and what you know of the
guy and what's at stake, and then after hearing the
emotional testimony of the women and you, so much is
weighing on you and the decision I didn't think about
it that way that it's very personal to a lot
(11:51):
of these jurors. I thought it was complicated and it
was heavy, but it is emotionally confusing a lot of
what we have heard that does weigh in a decision,
but the get twelve people to agree.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I don't know the other thing I was thinking about,
and we can get more into this, I think in
some of the episodes that we will put out when
we're waiting for the verdict, or at least if there's
some time.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Because another thought that I had about all.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Of these women who came forward, especially even I mean,
we had Mia testified under a pseudonym, we had Jane
testifying under a pseudonym, and several of these employees who
were compelled to testify, they were given immunity. What happens
if Ditty is found not guilty? Are they concerned? Are
(12:40):
they concerned about retribution? Are they concerned about their safety?
Is there any protection put in place for any of
these folks who said they did what they did because
they were afraid of Ditty?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
What happened?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
So there's just so many questions and so much is
on the line, not just for Ditty but for the
folks for the people who bravely or in some.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Cases were forced to testify.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Against him, what happens to them if he isn't behind bars.
I just I've had all of these thoughts, or you know,
there's got to be so many people who are having
sleepless nights until the outcome of this trial is known.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Okay, well, we're going to have as a country maybe
a sleepless night if if he walks after this trial,
and then we're all confused as to why we heard
horror after horror after horror, and we saw videotape of
(13:33):
the horror. But he's not going to serve any time
and no punishment for that. Now, what does that do
When you mentioned survivors, when you mentioned people who have
be interview women in particular, to see this trial, this
high profile, what had what these women were forced to
talk about in the public, and after all that, my
(13:55):
abuser is going home, that's going I just.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Got chills from head to toe because this isn't just
about Diddy, and this isn't even just about these particular victims.
And I think regardless of the outcome, it's fair to
say we've said this in the podcast and I think
most people would agree that these women were victimized in
some way, shape or form, and whether or not they
were complicit in other acts or not, they were still
victimized in a lot of ways. But what this will
(14:22):
do to future cases, to current cases that are out there,
How does this impact women or men or anyone who
has felt abused or undermined or didn't feel like they
had the power to speak up for themselves or get
out of a situation. It just creates an environment where
you feel like you can't win again, that you're revictimized
(14:43):
by the justice system, and there is no such thing
as actual justice. I mean, there are so many ripple
effects that could come from this trial. Because it's being
watched so closely, and because the details have been so salacious.
It's something that people not only are paying attention to,
but some also something that they won't forget, and it
may affect future trials or future it may affect the
(15:07):
ability of people to come forward in the future.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I mean, to put yourself out there like this. I
know it as a part of a legal case. They
were subpoena that they had to be there, but still
to be I mean, some of the stuff. They admit
they we heard the word how many times humiliating? Was embarrassing?
They felt shame. Then they had to live it all
again on the stand and have it recited all over
the world. I to do that. There are plenty of
(15:31):
women who are watching this who are going through some
kind of hell right now in some relationship and watching
that and feeling more and more helpless as the clock ticks,
because what does justice look like. Look every blow you
saw him land to cassivent, to refine, he's not being
charged with that. So that to a lot of people
(15:53):
is confusing. And so the government's going after all this
big stuff. Okay, that's fine, but that's what was the
Amber heard right whomen that Johnny Depp Amber heard there
was a big conversation about abuse at the time, and
what would that do to victims? And do it about
coming forward? Because she she came forward, then she ends
up being sued, right it was. So this was a
(16:15):
fascinating one to me.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Well, And the tough thing about this case in particular
is that this wasn't a case in which any of
these women went to police. It was only years later
that they went to a lawyer and then pursued it
with civil charges and with a financial ask tied to
the end of it, and that is also something that
has a lot of folks questioning motives and questioning whether
(16:38):
or not these women were actually victims or if they
were looking for another way to be financially compensated for
what they went through, which is there is a difference
between the two. So you know, there are a lot
of questions and there's going to be a lot of
Monday morning quarterbacking when this trial is over.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
But it has been fascinating from start to now.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
We're in the middle of this and honestly, I think
what will happen in terms of what the defense will
present and how the jury will go through all of
this confusing information and make a determination about what they
think what justice looks like, what it is. This is
going to be studied for a long time and I'm fascinated.
And the truth is, no one knows what's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
No one.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Well, we think we know what's going to happen tomorrow.
They are supposed to be back in court tomorrow. We
haven't gotten official word that all is good with the
juror as of this recording at least, But if that's
the case, I'll be back in there nine am. But
going to wrap by one, I think in the afternoon
and that'll be it for the day. So we will
see if the prosecution does actually rest its case.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Yeah, but we will keep you updated.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
We'll keep our eyes on any new information that may
come down today that could affect tomorrow. But in the meantime,
we hope you are enjoying your Juneteenth today and we
hope you'll check us out for the next episode that
drops
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