June 11, 2025 • 50 mins
Amy, T.J, and Aubrey O’Day explore the layered testimony of Jane Doe — with one foot planted in survivor advocacy, and the other stepping into the uncomfortable complexities of testimony that doesn’t fit neatly into one box.
While abuse is always the abuser’s fault, Jane’s story raises hard questions: What happens when love turns transactional, and survival means knowing your price?
From contradictions on the stand to Diddy still footing her legal bills, Aubrey asks- how much power can you reclaim when the man you're testifying against you still willingly have signing the checks?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Amy and TJ Presents Aubrey Oday covering the Ditty Trial.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome everyone to Amy Robot and TJ. Holmes Present Aubrey
Oday covering the Diddy Trial. My partner TJ Holmes with
me and we're looking at Aubrey O Day and there
is so much to talk about with Jane, Ditty's ex girlfriend,
the pseudonym Jane on the stand for the last couple
(00:26):
of days and now facing cross examination. But my goodness,
we heard a lot from Jane.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
A ton.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
So her testimony has been so difficult for me and
I've been you know, Amy, I texted you a bit
this weekend, back and forth like I'm having a hard
time with this. And this was the same feeling that
I got in the very beginning when all of this started.
Is there's this I kind of I think there's a
(00:56):
generational thing that's happening. The older women on stand the
psychology of what's going on in this trial much better
than the younger generations. There's racial elements that are occurring.
Certain communities understand different behaviors differently, and I have such
a diverse group of everything around me that I hear
conflicting ideas and understandings of what is going on so
(01:19):
much that I sit back with myself and then I
end up sending you a text in the middle of
the night like how do we approach this as women?
But we're pro women, but how do we say these
hard things? And kind of what it gets down to her,
I mean the things she's established for the prosecution, we
should get out of the way, violence, force, coercion. There
(01:40):
are lots of moving escorts across lines. She listed a
number of escorts, a number of different places that they went,
horrible stories like vomiting during the freak offs after the
second guy had been with her, and then Puffy coming
in and saying, oh, that's a good thing. That means
(02:01):
you'll be nice and prime to get number three. He's
waiting outside like things like that that are very disturbing.
All sit on your heart. And she kind of has
the same that same line of thinking, which is that
like defaulting to sex in order to get his attention.
If I don't this, he won't this period. Everybody said it,
(02:23):
that's the way to get this man to pay attention
to you and to want to stay with you. And
if you don't do what he wants, then he goes
somewherewhere else, and so they always end up doing that.
There's always the drop of the drugs. It's not that
I don't believe women, but it's her details are hard
for me to process, and I'm trying to stay open
and lead with compassion even as I work through my
(02:45):
own doubts, and my own doubts start around this area.
She's with him when Cassie's lawsuit drops. This is a
more recent quote girlfriend. Like I said, I don't think
girl girlfriend should be a title for any of these women.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
You have to care about somebody with that title.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
So this is a girl for him, but he's there
when Cassie's case drops. She recalls seeing it and feeling
like she's reading her own tell all book. Basically, she
recognizes the behavior, she recognizes the feelings.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
She gets to see what the.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Words are in black and white, what they're called, what
the legal words are, sex trafficking. It's a rico organization.
There's rape, there's all. And so she's realizing I'm not
even special. This wasn't something he was just doing with me.
He was doing it with everybody. All these behaviors I do.
(03:40):
I thought that was our thing.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
She's recognizing and seeing all of this. Then all of
a sudden, he's blowing her up. For the first time,
we get to hear puff is going after somebody else,
because we know he never does that, does he. It's
always them trying to get his attention. But this time
he needs hers. He needs her to defend him. He
needs her to say say, hey, it's mutual. He needs
her to go out there and tell the world we
(04:03):
did this together. She also notices that she can hear
him writing on a like a blackboard. She remembers he
would always strategize his days out and plan things, so
she feels like he's kind of strategizing. She doesn't know
she's being taped, but he's taping the conversations, and he's
kind of basically egging her on to say this was complicit.
(04:26):
You wanted this, we both wanted this, and she's kind
of like, I don't know, I'm overwhelmed. I don't you know.
She's just overwhelmed at this point, right, So they're bickering
back and forth, it's getting into dicey territory, and then
there's this conversation of okay, then let's be clear let's
not have any more like uncertain lines.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
What's your price? What is it that you want?
Speaker 4 (04:48):
And she says she wants one fifty per year, four
point fifty for the three that she's served, and then
two years of her house being handled, she was able
to say what her.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
So that's difficult when you know that and you're hearing
it in her own words. You're hearing taped recordings, as
you pointed out, text messages between the two where she
seems to clearly not only be willing to do all
of these things, but some court reporters described her voice
as giddy in those recordings.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Yeah. Yes, And at that point, I'm starting to realize
I might not only be looking at a victim. I
might be looking at someone who's learned to survive by
manipulating others as well.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
And you can be both. You can be both.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
And that's the part that's hard to say as a
woman that I was trying to say to you this weekend.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
I think you can be both.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
If they're if a victim, if there's always psychological reasons
as to why somebody continues to be a victim, and
you can't ever really get down to the bottom of it,
I think for me, where I would have to start
as a woman holding another woman accountable is when they
(06:08):
have been given enough information to recognize it. Because when
you recognize something, you can decide potentially what happens next,
and that's when you can kind of get a little
bit back on your power.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
You can start getting a bit of your power back.
And there has to.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Be some point that we do acknowledge what our behavior is,
and there has to be some point where we hold
ourselves accountable.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
We don't get to.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Be because we are women, or because there's power and balances,
or because somebody has literally got the money of all
men and as a king and a god and whatever
else he wants to call himself at the end of
the day, that there still has to be a point
where everybody in this lifetime has to hold themself accountable
(06:56):
and acknowledge their behavior. And it doesn't mean that they're
not a victim at all to either. It's not stripping
that away, but that has to exist.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
But it sounds like you're hearing something in her testimony
over the past several days that you are now in
your mind, So that means maybe in juror's minds, there's
some accountability.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Definitely in juror's minds.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
That she should have taken. Then where I mean, it's
the largest conversation in society we can have, but it's
also an important one in that courtroom. But where are
we Where do you find accountability in her testimony to
where she had opportunities that you think the jury might
see as well?
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Okay, and then keep remember that very in because you
know how I wander and I want to talk about
the jury at the end of this for a second,
because we're getting a lot more information about the jury now,
and it's we'll save it for a podcast, but let's
dive into it a tiny bit. You ask me where
I see the opportunities if I'm in the jury. After
she says what her price is, he says, fuck you.
(07:54):
They go back and forth. He threatens to show her
baby daddy the tapes of her in these videos in
the freak offs or they were calling it a hotel
parties or hotel nights.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
That's key. Grab a hold of that piece.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
And then they in the call with her saying she
wants to kill herself, nobody will ever love her. Then
he says, call KK. She handles everything good old co
conspirator having asked KK allegedly, so KK responds with hey babe, period,
(08:31):
and then it goes on to tell her, you guys
always have your issues. Things always end up working out.
We always find ourselves back here. You just need to
take a break. So she finds herself at a point
where there's a break. She gets her only fans popping off.
She gets invited to be sent out to Vegas. She
gets invited to go out date or go be seen whatever.
(08:53):
There's money, there's opportunity, there's.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Things happening there.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
She gets brought back to a room where there's a
famous rapper, famous people, famous girlfriends. They were holding back
from the names being displayed, but basically she realizes, oh wow,
there's a freak off happening in this room right now
with Anton. He's one of my regulars over with Puff.
I just think that part's important because this is happening
(09:20):
with a whole lot of rappers apparently, and they may
be all using the same people because she recognized Anton.
Then she goes through that whole phase, and then Diddy
hits her up one day, missing that smile. There's opportunities
through all of this now, right because she's still he's
paying for her place and all of that, but she's
getting her income on by doing OnlyFans. She's getting paid
(09:43):
by doing other potential escorting or whatever we want to
call it gigs. And then her and Diddy start talking.
She starts fighting back. They have conversations, and she ends
up back in freakofs again. So she's now seeing Cassie's suit.
She understands the piece that she didn't ever experience was
(10:04):
the fighting. She even asked him about it. He says,
Cassie threw hands a lot. She was a fighter. So
she comes back, freak offs start occurring, She's back up
in them, March hits, Homeland Security comes knocking. Did he
pays for her to have attorneys? All of these are
the open areas you're asking me about, TJ. She had
(10:25):
Homeland Security sitting in front of you at this point.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
You're safe girl.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
When I sat with Homeland Security, I was like, am
I safe? And they told me the level of protection
that I'm at at this game, at this stage and
this time of at this point, and how visible I
make myself. They're like, you make yourself pretty visible. It'd
be hard to get rid of you. People would be
wondering where the fuck you're at. You know, you can
(10:49):
ask them these types of questions. These are all moments opportunities. Okay.
So then even after Homeland Security comes, he pays for
her attorney and comes back Good Ol'lanton. It runs around
with all the wrappers and the freak offs. Apparently many
of them are doing it. Good o'lanton comes back and
extorts her with one of the videos that was taken
(11:10):
on his phone. A media company ends up buying that
video and it never gets seen again. I'd like to
know what media company that was.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Hmmm, let's put.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
The internet to work. Then June comes and that's when
the knockdown fight happens. That's when the abuse comes her way.
We heard a lot of horrific abuse, so much abuse
that it goes through the night to the next morning.
When someone's arriving for a freakoff, she has to go
get herself. Cute comes out, he gives her the pill
(11:43):
and he looks her dead in her eyes and says,
now this is now You're being coerced.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Is this coersion to you?
Speaker 4 (11:52):
And then she goes into the freak off and starts
performing for the freakoff.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
You know what, can I ask you? What did you
make of you? Remember Diddy's apology video.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Yeah, that's coming. So my next part these little moments
where you're saying, where's her opportunities? So that whole freak
off ends in a really bad way. He sends twelve
to fifteen thousand to pay for the fucked up Airbnb,
pay for Anton and whatever else. Then July comes another
freak off. Puff gets bored. This time has a black
(12:27):
bottle of liquid Mollie that he sprays in her mouth.
Let's all just remember that in case it ever gets
brought up in a marine day in the future. A
black bottle spray in your mouth. It's the new it
drug that everyone's doing. You've never had anything like it.
She said she had the best sex of her life.
She's never performed better than when she got that spray
out of the black bottle. Okay, so then she she's
(12:53):
going off. Puff's looking bored. At one point during a
freak off she wants to bring She says she misses Paul.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
They call Paul.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Paul can be there. In a couple of days. Paul comes.
They get involved in these freak offs. August is the
last time she sees him, but she gets ready to
go see him again. And by the way, the Cassie
tape during this time has dropped. She's there when they're
plotting how do we respond to this? She's even shown
(13:22):
a video of one of the versions of his apology
and thinks her responses, and they tried to stop her
at every angle the defense did. Her response is it
doesn't feel sincere, which was what we all got from
the version we saw. She saw a different version, not
even the one that we saw. But there were takes,
(13:42):
tj there were multiple takes and not that like, you know,
if you're a smart guy and you've got a lot
of rich lawyers around you, you probably should do a
few takes. But truly, if you're honestly sincerely sorry, do
you do a few takes? And then she was asked
which one is the which is the best one?
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Does this look good to you?
Speaker 4 (14:07):
That's a choice to stay there, And then the last
time she sees him is in August, and then she
gets the drugs ready and all the products ready, and
she's about to get on the plane to get to
New York because they're gonna have another fun time in
New York and he accidentally goes and walks into the
hotel and gets indicted. The Feds grab him. That's the
video we all saw. She was snatched up, and then
(14:30):
she then says even after that point, she's her house
is still being paid by him. Her lawyers, two different lawyers,
are being paid by him. And she was working with
the defense in the very beginning and meeting with them
willingly until through some therapy she decided that she was
going to reclaim herself and reclaim herself as a woman
(14:53):
and stand up for herself. And now she is testifying.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
I'm curious though, with all of that, Aubrey, and she's
fully admitted this. We're hearing the audio recordings, we're seeing
the text in real time where she does say she's
just wanting to be with him and she doesn't want
to go through all of these freak ofughs and the
pain and all of these things she's feeling.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
So we're seeing all of that.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
But then knowing the story I just laid out and
her being very upfront and transparent about it, doesn't that
make the atrocity she does testify to all the more credible.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Well, let's see how much more.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
She didn't say today when she gets cross examined, because
with all of the details on the table, listen, it
started to get so messy for me in my head
as I was really watching, And mind you, I wasn't
just watching the breakdowns from really established journalists. I was
going all the way to the streets and listen to
(16:00):
what people were just saying after observing it in court
for themselves. When I went across the board and started
really assessing it from every angle, everybody was so divided
on her, so divided, and so for me, I really
had to sit back and think, like I feel, there
were moments that she had outs and I don't know
(16:21):
how to say that and still be pro woman and
not even and not still. I think the way to
do it is to say, I am looking at a
victim one hundred percent. I'm also looking at a victim
that potentially learned how to manipulate people to get things
that she wanted as well.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Did he was manipulating, she was manipulating. Is there a.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Power imbalance and is there all kinds of things psychologically
that are out of her favor? Absolutely, But she, by
her own admission, at the very end, she says, you
know that she wishes him well and she hopes that
he's happy.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
I mean, she says she still loves him, and I.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Mean she could.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
It felt like she'll give him a call if he
gets off, is what it was giving me.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I don't know, Yeah, yeah, I mean I think we
felt the same way, and that was a hard thing
to get our heads around. To know that she could
speak to these unthinkable atrocities that would be a horror
show for I think most people. And yet at the
same time, after having detailed and relived them, as she's
(17:28):
up on the stand right there and actually had the
videos being played for the court room. I mean, how
humiliating is that, even if at the time you were
doing what you were wanting to do. Still to see
such intimate private moments displayed, I mean, just what she
went through, and then to be able to still say
I love him and I wish nothing.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
But peace for him.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
That that's a I was struggling with how you could
think both things.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
It's given performance, you think.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
It's performance, and on which one is the performance?
Speaker 4 (18:02):
It's giving an awareness of manipulation A tiny bit.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Diddy was finicky.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
They said he was the most finicky they've ever seen
of every witness that's taken the stand. She had a
stress ball in her hand that she was using during
the entire time. There's something there that's stressing both of
them out. Now, whether she's stressed over the cross and
he's stressed at her her taking the first stab at
(18:29):
the story. I don't know whether there's other people involved,
whether this gets much bigger, whether I don't for me,
I looked at it and I'm like, I don't see
an upside for her, Like she doesn't get to retire
into some settlement.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Now.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
A lot of people are saying they were suggesting prosecution
kept trying to steal this away from the defense, like,
let's bring it up so when the defense does, it's
doesn't hit that hard that you know, eminem type, I'll
say everything bad about myself first, so when you come
for me, it doesn't look that bad. They did say
you went back to his house after they went through
(19:03):
their whole beat down, and you had a black eye,
and you took a lot of pictures that day with him,
a whole lot. There was a lot of voice memos,
there was a lot of saving things. Were you doing
that on purpose? Were you building a case. She kept saying, no,
she just wanted to show that she lives the lifestyle.
She wanted proof to be able to flosster her friends
(19:24):
and whatever else.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
But you have a black eye.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
I don't know. I don't take selfies with myself or
my lover that gave me a black eye when I
have a black eye, I don't know. Why did He
was even behaving like that because his ass was already
being investigated openly in front of the world, and he
was still in the freak offs. All the way up
to that hotel that he got busted up in with
his kids with him, he was still doing the freak offs.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
He was still on the drugs. He still had a
girl coming. There was a girl willing to come.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Every woman in this entire world, and every man that's
decent for the most part, has a really big fucking
problem with that Cassie video. Disgusted, visceral men were having
visceral responses, and yet there was somebody there assessing how
the apology should look and willing to still come and
do a freak off. It's it's not giving me the
(20:17):
same thing that other people were giving.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
It's giving me something different.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
Is it establishing some things for the prosecution, like deeper
in the sex trafficking pocket. Yeah, we've gone deeper in
that pocket. But with all the confusion of their relationship
and the desires and the manipulating on both sides, it
almost feels like I'm overwhelmed and I don't know if
I can I can get back to the legal part.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
And I'm hearing that a lot.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
There's a lot of connection with Diddy and the jurors,
a few in particular. The judge has even made a
statement about no more contacting, no more facial communications with
the jury, bud, But how do you rewind that? How
do you rewind that? And so to me, I'm like,
I don't know this one is feeling. It's so dv
(21:08):
So you know, she's getting things. She's aware, she had
a price and she named it. Now did she get it? No,
it seems like she was still going back.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Now.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
He also was paying for her home. But I see
a lot of women being like, listen, if someone were
paying for my home and having me completely come outside
myself and my only other option was to get a job,
I'd get a fucking job. Now that's hard, because that's
what I wrote you, Amy, like I've had many times
in my life where I have seen girls that decide
(21:42):
to go down a different route than having to figure
out the nine to five or whatever a job looks
like to anyone's dreams, okay, and how I've always had
a bit of judgment for those girls because they just
have it so easy, and I never do even when
I have to make.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
It look easy, it's so hard.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
But then I see what they're having to do on
the stand, and I'm realizing that's worse than my worst day.
So then what I wrote ended up writing you I
think this week and was just like I asked TJ
if he feels these things, because I don't know that
women have the same options as men. I don't even
(22:22):
know that we're socialized or understand ourselves to be of
the same value as men, even if we were raised
in a healthy situation. I don't it sounds so easy
to me, go get a job. It's got to be
better than this other stuff. But she didn't. She stayed
(22:45):
in that lane, and it was good for her and
fine with her, but then it wasn't fine with her
because she's on the stand, and it's not fine with her.
And one more thing I wanted to point out, they're
going to really push you want your own lawsuit, You
set it up to kind of be your own version
of what you read throughout casting, and then kind of
they're going to suggest that she likely was manifesting it
through her behavior.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
How I look at it is.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
She hasn't filed a lawsuit and she wishes him well,
but she's also nowhere near the statute of limitation. Either.
My statute of limitation and for my era of anyone
that was abused ended the day it ended. I remember
I went to dinner with my friends and we all
had a drink because I knew that was the last
and final day that.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
I could ever.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Have justice if something really horrible happened to me and
I wasn't going to be able to get them by
that day.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
That was a hard night for me.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
She's not anywhere near her statue she could file at
any point after this trial up until her statute of limitations,
and she was just with him when he got indicted
two twenty twenty four. She's got a while. So just
because she doesn't have a lawsuit now doesn't mean she
won't have a lawsuit. And Also, if I were a
smart person and Ditty's paying for her lawyer, let me
(24:08):
just stop at that. Diddy's paying for her lawyer, y'all.
That's like y'all getting taken off that show on some BS,
which is what happened to you guys, and them paying
for y'all's lawyer. How much justice are you actually going
to get? What you're going to do is you're gonna
get a payoff at some point to have done to
have not opened your mouth and lift up too much
(24:28):
against the system. That's what happens when you have the
system paying for your lawyer. I don't know if it's this.
I'm taking back ownership of myself and I'm a woman.
Hear me, roar, I'm not meeting with the defense anymore.
I'm gonna come up here and tell my story. Then
I'd take my OnlyFans dollars and get my own lawyer
(24:49):
to help me do that.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
He says, she's a survivor. She did what she's doing,
what she has to do to survive. Her testimony is not.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Going to make Is that all you have to do
to survive? Is my question, And I don't know how
to ask that as a woman. Who's pro female. Have
you ever felt TJ like your lowest day? You need
to go out there like Anton and starts swinging the
deed around.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
I mean, it's it's kind of what I'm currently doing.
Uh Okay, we needed that, we needed that, We needed
a little we really need a little laught because this
stuff is heavy. But the debate and the question you're
talking about is how should we handle, how should we view,
how should we teach in a moment like this where
there is a woman who's doing what she had to
(25:34):
do to survive to I'm not gonna judge her, I guess.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
Is that how we're gonna say?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
I don't know. I get, I don't know, and I'm
I'm told she's a victim, and I'm told she's an
abuse victim of a certain type. That I will never
begin to understand what that does to somebody. And I'll
never understand, to your point, because I'm a man, and
because I'm from a home and educated and middle class
and all this, I will never understand what it feels
(25:59):
like to be so desperate and think I have no
other option in life, but to like you said, do
something untoward or legal even amy.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Have you seen women though that do it, that that
isn't their only thing that they have left the Actually,
when I look at this woman, Jane, I see a
ton of potentials for her.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
She's gorgeous.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
She could start her own lines, hairlines, brow lines, makeup lines,
clothing lines. She could use it a little bit of
the only fans money to front a business. She has
so many options in my eyes.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
But how many options does she have for a multimillion
naire wrap mogul influencer guy, like, like, that's the option.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
That's what I was just going to say.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
This isn't about putting food on the table for her children,
or putting food on the table for herself, or even
as she said, keeping a roof over her head.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
That was not what this was about.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Because, as you point out, she was blessed with a
lot of amazing qualities that she could have used to
make a decent living. But that was never going to
give her private planes and fancy cars.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
And I don't even think she was getting private.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Places, studied parties, and access to a whole world that
she could never get on her own. And so she
was I mean, you could argue she wasn't in a
place where she was fighting for survival, She was fighting
for uber success that she didn't think she could get
on her own, and so she traded. Many people would
say her self worth and thing she stood for to
(27:32):
get that moment, that pie in the sky moment where
she got to be one of the it girls, one
of the you know, living a life that I don't
think any of us really know.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Aubury, you told us that world is intoxicating.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
I mean, I've lived it. Can I tell you one thing?
Speaker 3 (27:47):
All the people that I know that.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Are living it are miserable. A f if I could
tell any anything to any young person that is watching
this and listening to us, that is not a place
where all the happiness in the world resides.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
It just isn't.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
More money, more problems was a real song, and it
hit home for everybody for a reason. More money, more problems.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
It just gets harder, harder, heavier.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
The decisions are steeper, the moral compass choices they get
put in front of you are much The line becomes
thinner and thinner, and you have to walk very carefully
not to fall. I hate that people look up to
it the way they do. That's not anything we're going
to be able to change with this podcast. But obviously
(28:37):
I think this trial, if nothing else, is a testimony
to how miserable the person who's on trial truly is inside,
and how miserable everyone that comes within his path ends.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Up to your point, it's I mean, you've seen a
little bit of this, just when you're in any sort
of career and you reach the top and you start
to see the people who are at the pinnacle. Most
of them don't seem happy and they have everything in
(29:10):
the world at their fingertips, and that was.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Always a shocking thing.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
And this is on a much smaller scale than anything
that you've experienced or seen in that entertainment world. But
I do think it's you see Diddy, it's once you
get to a certain level, you're trying to get to
the next one and the next one. Once you reach
a certain high, you need a bigger high, a better high,
and each time it's not good enough.
Speaker 5 (29:31):
And to that point when we heard.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
When we heard Jane say that she was excited about
going somewhere with him, just the two of them, and
he was bored. So everything's on such a hyper scale,
nothing's ever good enough, and therefore there's just incredible sadness
because you can never you're looking for that high from
outside sources.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
Right, and you can almost even bring that back to
Cassie like she felt proud of herself when he was
happy with her. And it sounds like the It sounds
like Jane had that same line of thinking, like I
couldn't make him happy, he was bored. So then I suggested,
let's call this guy. He can come here in two days,
Let's do an all star party. Let me give you this,
let me give you that. There is a lot of
(30:13):
I mean, listen, it's still coercion. Even I thought to
myself when he gave her the pill and she was
about to go do the freak off, and he looked
in her face and said, is this coercion? I had
to stop and think, like was that an out or
was that more coercion? Like it's complicated because I guess
if you're really if you're really groomed, then you just
(30:36):
put your head down and you do your job. But
if you have anything where you've gained some self esteem,
I'd be like, I'm not gonna be coerced in this moment.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Later, bro, can.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
You tell me I think you said it right off?
The top. The difference. You said, a younger generation versus
an older generation of women are viewing things differently.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
What you mean by that, and racially too, I'm noticing
the difference. I mean, I think it's important that we
just say what it is. So generationally women that are
older that I speak to. Now, I'm old and some
people don't think I'm old, and I think I'm a grandparent,
so I'll say I'm forty one, so my age a
little bit younger, like thirty five up kind of have
(31:16):
this understanding of DV. A lot of us have an
understanding of DV and the psychology behind it, which means
a lot of us have probably ventured into it a bit.
Have you been ventured into it at all? Amy?
Speaker 5 (31:29):
No? No, no, no, no, I mean I think you know everyone. No,
not verbal violent verbal violence.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Yes I have had that abuse, but yes, yeah, but
it does it does.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Knock you dumb when you say you know what I
have ended up doing in moments where I didn't know
how I felt.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
I actually made video diaries. I still have them.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
I try to go for you look back at them
and just in real time, remember where I was and
how I never want to be there again, But no,
it's it is something that happens gradually sometimes and you
don't even realize it's happening.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
So then I think, I think there's this generational that
and that age range of us. And I think the
men too, who are likely more so dads, more calmed down.
The libido isn't driving them every which way. They've had
to create a stable life around these ages. Potentially all
of us kind of have this understanding that, like, we
don't want to be in toxic relationships. We've done them,
(32:20):
we know how they look, we know how they feel,
and we're not interested. Guys they've hooked up with the hoes,
there's no they understand that they want a wife instead,
you know what I'm saying. And then this younger generation
is not looking at it with the same eyes. Then
the younger generation is so different. Even when I talk
to my god daughter the because everything is so there's
(32:43):
just no delayed gratification, absolutely none.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
It is the here and now.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
And if you can't give me within fifteen seconds in
this TikTok video, TikTok is so difficult for me, y'all
hear how much I run on You think I could
ever do a TikTok fifteen seconds? So fuck am I
going to do in fifteen seconds? I can't even get
five words out in fifteen seconds. That's not enough time
for me. That that platform is, that platform was made
by the devil and for a person like me, So
(33:10):
so I don't. The younger generation is like, we need,
we need this. In soundbites, this girl was getting this,
that and the other the and then culturally a lot
of white women that I know in the courtroom or
white men have come out and said, like, this is horrific.
She she it was hor horrible. She was sobbing. It
broke my heart. It established sex trafficking what she had.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
To go through.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Then then there's academics sitting there, uh like geeked out
at I think his literal phrase was, Man, what a
bitch you'll do for a sectional? Yeah, he was just
reading the court transcripts and he said, damn, what a
bitch will do for a sectional? And he said that
(33:57):
because she's because she offered him an all star three
of her, three of Ditty's favorite escorts all on her
as a big blowout all star party. And acc was like, damn,
Like these bitches will just do anything for this, that
and the and then the bitch word just flew out
of his mouth. And a lot of guys that you
(34:19):
know behind closed doors, a lot of the younger generation.
I don't know how old act is, but like I
suppose more in the hip hop culture for sure. Even
according to Jane's testimony, she walked into a party and
there was good old Anton Anton whatever her fazis from
the Freak Offs, and Anton was doing a little number
(34:41):
with somebody else for another rapper and his girl. And
you know, we're not here to out the entire hip
hop industry, but we could. I could definitely if I
had the time. I've sat next to people that had
just literally openly at a bar after a drink, told
me about whole ass situations people. La is very vocal.
(35:03):
It's shocking, it's shocking. The thing that shocked me the most,
I remember going to a gay club right after we
made the band that were out in like, uh Times Square.
We did our last interview and all of the girls
we all went to a gay club with some of
our like somebody's best friends. We all went out. We're
having a good time and this guy comes over and
he's like you guys are so fucking cute. And he
(35:24):
comes around and me, He's like, girl, you're the fucking
shit and you'll learn soon enough. I fuck your boss
allegedly because I don't know if he fucked my boss,
but he said that to me. I remember within days
of me making the band, some guy at a gay
bar told me, I fuck your boss. And I didn't realize.
I didn't realize until I went to a gay bar
(35:46):
that was like with some of my like long established
friends in New York when I was living there. Uh think, yeah,
when I was like officially living in New York. And
they are more straight, they have more straight qualities as
gay men, and you wouldn't they They wouldn't know, You
wouldn't know if they were gay or not. In a room,
there's nothing like, there's nothing like outwardly exposing their sexuality.
(36:09):
We went into this club. Everybody was hood as hell,
gangster hip hop music playing like street fashion to the tens.
Like everybody looked fine, and I was like, there are
so many guys in here, I could literally have my pick.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
This is bomb.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
And the guy with me was like, oh baby, we're
we're in a gay club. And I was like, I've
never a gay club. To me, it's like rainbows and
fucking glitter and pride, and no, it was just us.
It looked like a hood bar. Now listen, if it's
all done willingly and everybody is agreeing to everything, then fine.
(36:45):
But but like, if it's not and there's coercion, force
or any of these other things involved, it doesn't just
look any It looks all types of ways and all
types of people are doing it.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
I'm not familiar with this term online robes. I don't
know if you are, but a cuck Okay, but yeah,
it's now they've been using it for short. This has
come up and I'm bringing this up to you now
because this happened just as testimony was going on as
we're doing this recording, and Jane, yes, Jane is testifying
(37:27):
about some of the things that did He is into,
and she said she described him as a cuck, which
is a guy who has pleasure seeing his woman get
pleasure from the other man. She went on to say
this though Aubrey cucks could also have a by curiosity
(37:49):
that they are too ashamed to experience themselves, so they
use the woman to venture out in this curiosity. Without
actually doing the act themselves.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
And there is where all of the magic is really in. Now,
we can't assume what's in anyone's mind, nor would we
be wise too, But in that last little bit that
you just said is where I've always felt the magic
is in regards to.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Hurt people. Hurt people.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
When you become famous for a certain thing, you gotta
be that thing. And if that thing is a hip
hop artist in the nineties, you can't be gay period.
There's no We're not having a think piece. There's no
think piece on that. I mean, when I came home
from Bali and TikTok arrived and there were two white
men talking about wearing dreads and talking about what are
(38:43):
the island boys? I was like, what in the cultural
appropriation is going on? And then they went on OnlyFans and
hooked up with each other and their brothers, and I
was like, this would never have happened back in my
day of music. Nineties, for sure, that would never have occurred.
But when you grow up in a time and a place,
in an era where you're entire like, we're talking about
(39:06):
what will these women do?
Speaker 3 (39:07):
What will men do? What would did he do? You
know to stay on top.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
Somebody's doing something that could cross you, that could fuck
up your business. People were getting murdered back then, and
then we get all the way to these these You know,
maybe if you feel a certain way, like you said,
sometimes with cuck holding and that's in that setting, it
can be someone who desires. It seems like in all
(39:34):
of the sexual situations that we continuously hear, there is
a lot of discussion about the men looking a certain way,
the dicks looking a certain way, and the dicks being
a certain color. It's very specific about how he wants
the dicks to be, a lot of conversations about the dicks,
(39:54):
a lot of non excitement until a dick comes out.
So to me, I think to myself, if you had
to suppress who you really were because fame was calling shit,
I had to. I got fired for being raunchy and promiscuous.
I have no ability to have a career in any
other lane. Everybody's playing me, humiliating me when I try
(40:16):
to go in and music and real deals things I
should be doing. I'm an intellect I went to college,
I have a degree. And then Hugh Hefner comes and says,
cover a playboy, you don't even have to show anything
but your tits. Let's go, and here's over half a
million dollars. I had never even been paid. It was
a no brainer for me. But then, because I chose
(40:37):
to jump into the lane that was handed to me,
I've had to do a delicate dance in that lane
my entire career. That's difficult because I mean, like I said,
I haven't had sex in years. I'm not.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
I would never have sex with somebody for money. I
would never take have sex for a job. I lost
my job. I was willing to lose my job, you
feel me. So I'm actually like nowhere near that lane
in that respect. But I've had to dance within that lane.
And then when you have to dance in that lane
(41:13):
and it doesn't feel authentic to you.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Drugs are a really great escape.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
They really are the ones that the doctors give you
or the ones that the street people give you. Usually
it starts with doctors and then you run out, and
then you get a little street dealer that's got some
new jams, like a black bottle of some liquid spray.
It becomes inventive depending on who you're around and the
access that you have the money that you have. But
(41:38):
either way, I could kind of see this pattern of
maybe how did he lost the plot and how he
could have lost the plot, and how he could have
had to suppress maybe something that he was and maybe
the suppression got so intense that there was a lot
of amount of drugs around that kept it numb. There
were things that I experienced that I can't talk about
here that speak to this, and I think that there's
(42:03):
potentially like that's what I was trying to say to
you guys when I said, I think the only option
when he comes back around on this is to go
into what has hurt him, because if he came up
as a hip hop guy and he's the guy running
the bad boy, I mean, you know what you think
of when you hear bad boy records. I felt like
(42:25):
honored to be a white girl that could go home
to my hometown and be like, I'm signed a bad
boy baby, Like that's still a status play everywhere I go,
it's bad boy. Well, imagine how much of a bad
boy did he had to be? And I'm not saying
let's have sympathy for the man, but if he had
to suppress something that was very deep, and then he
(42:47):
got a dependent on drugs, which helps numb your real
feelings and maybe allows you to stay in your character.
It kind of means maybe he's had to be this
character his whole life. I don't know if he's ever
stepped out of the I don't even like thinking though
that way, because there's so many variations of everything anymore
(43:08):
that I don't even know that anything's as simple as
gay or straight. Those are the terms we used back
in my day, but nowadays there's eight hundred options. To me,
what I do know is that he did love Dix.
He did love the way they looked, he loved their shape,
he loved seeing them in action. That's been alleged in
(43:29):
everybody's testimony. And that's what I know to be true.
Is in my generation, younger kids might think differently. I know,
younger kids that are just more free with it and
don't put labels on things. Our generation labeled things more,
and there were like categories and they were simple. There
wasn't like seven hundred of them. It's why people have
(43:51):
gotten frustrated with I mean, it's a whole different topic,
but it's why people get frustrated with liberals. Nowadays, they
just opened the door for too many things, and the
people older people are a little bit tighter in the crotch.
We don't want to have to learn all the letters
and the names and the fucking titles and all the
When I had I did a sex pod with a
sex therapist, I really had to look things up. I am.
(44:13):
I am not as like I thought I was really
killing it when I was sexually active. I was really
not killing it that much. Like there are so many terms.
I mean, I didn't know velvet was something until I
learned that that velvet has more meetings than just fabric.
I did not know. You know, there's a lot going on.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Not the sex podcast.
Speaker 4 (44:32):
You guys are over there doing missionary. Then you got
something going on. Good God, let me.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Tell you I was boring. They don't ever get a
good show out this window behind us.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
Ever. I was gonna say, you guys have the opportunity
to do a whole lot. You guys would make a
killing on only.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
The stop stop stop. But no, this is all I
don't know. You were, you were on fire, you were
worked up, and I think a lot of people like
you and Robot are out there or are struggling.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
It's just hard.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
Amy. Did you come to an answer when I wrote that?
What was your thought when I sent that to you?
Speaker 2 (45:09):
You know, I'm with you in the sense that I
think both can be true. I think that she can
be a victim and at the same time yes, and
at the same time be complicit and at the same
time wanted. I don't know how important it would be
for a Jorge to know what your motives are. Yes,
it sounded like money was a motive, but I actually
(45:30):
think from what I saw or read and she loved,
it was for love. And as a woman, I can
totally understand that to a point, but it's conflict. I
was conflicted as well.
Speaker 4 (45:41):
I saw the love thing when she said. When she
ended that I'm going to kill myself, she said, no
one's ever gonna love me. No one's ever loved me.
That's not something you say that in a transaction. The
price payment points that she listed out, those were transactional,
but the last line isn't transactional, And that told me
she's both. She knows she's transactional. I didn't get transactional
(46:03):
from Cassie. Maybe as she got like years down the line,
but this one is too new, and this one is
very much in an era. You know, COVID changed a
lot of things. And when TikTok and podcasts are deciding
the music industry, now followers are deciding your paychecks, comments
and views are deciding your status in the celebrity world.
(46:26):
It's asked backwards. Talent is nowhere in the sentence, nowhere
in any sentences. I haven't heard anything about talent. We
can't even watch music awards shows anymore.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
They're a joke.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
AMA's flopped, BT's this past weekend horrible, like it's not
I don't know what's even going on in music anymore,
and everybody feels it. But this younger generation and these
new ideas are kind of taking over. And that's why
I think to myself, this is going to be so split.
I don't know how a jury. I don't know how
(46:58):
you could get someone like us to understand all the
broad open thinking that's happening in a younger generation. I
don't know how you get a white person to fully
understand a black man's experience, or a black person to
understand a white man's experience.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (47:13):
There's got to be so many levels of emotions that
they're gonna have to be able to pull on and
reason and all of these things that I just don't
I don't know that we're going to get a jury
that can all fully do that. And it already sounds
like there's a lot of facial communications going on that
are toxic for this type of environment. I think, at
(47:36):
the very least, I think they think they're going to
be hung on unless they have KK and a bodyguard,
they're going to be hung on. Rico. Sex trafficking might
be there and transporting people I've said early on is there.
Those each have a ten year on them, so that's
twenty then sex trafficking, I believe is a fifth is
(47:58):
a twenty year sentence per So there's two sex tracking sets.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
Forty forty twenty. He's how old is he?
Speaker 2 (48:05):
Do?
Speaker 4 (48:05):
You guys know?
Speaker 5 (48:05):
It's like mid fifties, mid fifties.
Speaker 4 (48:08):
So you add you add sixty to that. I think
I heard if the sentence gets too big, they just
call it life. Someone told me that you couldn't talk down,
you couldn't lower federal charges in your sentence.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
I don't know that that's true.
Speaker 4 (48:25):
I think you can get good behavior and things like
that that will lower your sentence.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
But you know, the idea that.
Speaker 4 (48:34):
The confusion, the confusing parts of this could confuse enough
or even one person enough to not understand the criminal
aspects of all of this is pretty scary for a
whole lot of people.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
We've been saying it just takes one juror so. Aubrey,
thank you for going through so much of what I
think a lot of folks are feeling, especially women watching
and reading and hearing about this testimony. It is conflicting,
but it was really cool to get your perspective, especially
with everything you know in the industry and certainly in
that world. And we're going to continue to talk to Aubrey,
(49:15):
continue to cover this trial and talk about the impact
not only just on the people who are in that courtroom,
but I, as you were pointing out, Aubrey, hopefully the
whole music industry and perhaps other industries, other entertainment industries, and.
Speaker 4 (49:29):
Women too, to women's worth, understanding themselves sexually, their value,
men getting to see how damaging it could be if
you're stringing a woman on for sexual reasons. There are
so many topics that are right up in front of us,
like you could learn a whole lot about the people
around you. If you just asked to have one little
(49:49):
discussion over dinner about Diddy, you could learn who your
friends are quickly, and you could learn who the cuck
hoolds are real quickly if you bring up the terms
velvet the other ones they learned. I mean, there's a
whole dictionary.
Speaker 5 (50:02):
I think we could save that for the after dinner drink.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
But yes, that sounds good. Thank you, Aubrey, Thank you
all for listening to us. Please check out this feed.
We will have more content for you shortly. But have
a wonderful day, everybody.
Amy and TJ Presents Aubrey Oday covering the Ditty Trial.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome everyone to Amy Robot and TJ. Holmes Present Aubrey
Oday covering the Diddy Trial. My partner TJ Holmes with
me and we're looking at Aubrey O Day and there
is so much to talk about with Jane, Ditty's ex girlfriend,
the pseudonym Jane on the stand for the last couple
(00:26):
of days and now facing cross examination. But my goodness,
we heard a lot from Jane.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
A ton.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
So her testimony has been so difficult for me and
I've been you know, Amy, I texted you a bit
this weekend, back and forth like I'm having a hard
time with this. And this was the same feeling that
I got in the very beginning when all of this started.
Is there's this I kind of I think there's a
(00:56):
generational thing that's happening. The older women on stand the
psychology of what's going on in this trial much better
than the younger generations. There's racial elements that are occurring.
Certain communities understand different behaviors differently, and I have such
a diverse group of everything around me that I hear
conflicting ideas and understandings of what is going on so
(01:19):
much that I sit back with myself and then I
end up sending you a text in the middle of
the night like how do we approach this as women?
But we're pro women, but how do we say these
hard things? And kind of what it gets down to her,
I mean the things she's established for the prosecution, we
should get out of the way, violence, force, coercion. There
(01:40):
are lots of moving escorts across lines. She listed a
number of escorts, a number of different places that they went,
horrible stories like vomiting during the freak offs after the
second guy had been with her, and then Puffy coming
in and saying, oh, that's a good thing. That means
(02:01):
you'll be nice and prime to get number three. He's
waiting outside like things like that that are very disturbing.
All sit on your heart. And she kind of has
the same that same line of thinking, which is that
like defaulting to sex in order to get his attention.
If I don't this, he won't this period. Everybody said it,
(02:23):
that's the way to get this man to pay attention
to you and to want to stay with you. And
if you don't do what he wants, then he goes
somewherewhere else, and so they always end up doing that.
There's always the drop of the drugs. It's not that
I don't believe women, but it's her details are hard
for me to process, and I'm trying to stay open
and lead with compassion even as I work through my
(02:45):
own doubts, and my own doubts start around this area.
She's with him when Cassie's lawsuit drops. This is a
more recent quote girlfriend. Like I said, I don't think
girl girlfriend should be a title for any of these women.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
You have to care about somebody with that title.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
So this is a girl for him, but he's there
when Cassie's case drops. She recalls seeing it and feeling
like she's reading her own tell all book. Basically, she
recognizes the behavior, she recognizes the feelings.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
She gets to see what the.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Words are in black and white, what they're called, what
the legal words are, sex trafficking. It's a rico organization.
There's rape, there's all. And so she's realizing I'm not
even special. This wasn't something he was just doing with me.
He was doing it with everybody. All these behaviors I do.
(03:40):
I thought that was our thing.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
She's recognizing and seeing all of this. Then all of
a sudden, he's blowing her up. For the first time,
we get to hear puff is going after somebody else,
because we know he never does that, does he. It's
always them trying to get his attention. But this time
he needs hers. He needs her to defend him. He
needs her to say say, hey, it's mutual. He needs
her to go out there and tell the world we
(04:03):
did this together. She also notices that she can hear
him writing on a like a blackboard. She remembers he
would always strategize his days out and plan things, so
she feels like he's kind of strategizing. She doesn't know
she's being taped, but he's taping the conversations, and he's
kind of basically egging her on to say this was complicit.
(04:26):
You wanted this, we both wanted this, and she's kind
of like, I don't know, I'm overwhelmed. I don't you know.
She's just overwhelmed at this point, right, So they're bickering
back and forth, it's getting into dicey territory, and then
there's this conversation of okay, then let's be clear let's
not have any more like uncertain lines.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
What's your price? What is it that you want?
Speaker 4 (04:48):
And she says she wants one fifty per year, four
point fifty for the three that she's served, and then
two years of her house being handled, she was able
to say what her.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
So that's difficult when you know that and you're hearing
it in her own words. You're hearing taped recordings, as
you pointed out, text messages between the two where she
seems to clearly not only be willing to do all
of these things, but some court reporters described her voice
as giddy in those recordings.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Yeah. Yes, And at that point, I'm starting to realize
I might not only be looking at a victim. I
might be looking at someone who's learned to survive by
manipulating others as well.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
And you can be both. You can be both.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
And that's the part that's hard to say as a
woman that I was trying to say to you this weekend.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
I think you can be both.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
If they're if a victim, if there's always psychological reasons
as to why somebody continues to be a victim, and
you can't ever really get down to the bottom of it,
I think for me, where I would have to start
as a woman holding another woman accountable is when they
(06:08):
have been given enough information to recognize it. Because when
you recognize something, you can decide potentially what happens next,
and that's when you can kind of get a little
bit back on your power.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
You can start getting a bit of your power back.
And there has to.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Be some point that we do acknowledge what our behavior is,
and there has to be some point where we hold
ourselves accountable.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
We don't get to.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Be because we are women, or because there's power and balances,
or because somebody has literally got the money of all
men and as a king and a god and whatever
else he wants to call himself at the end of
the day, that there still has to be a point
where everybody in this lifetime has to hold themself accountable
(06:56):
and acknowledge their behavior. And it doesn't mean that they're
not a victim at all to either. It's not stripping
that away, but that has to exist.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
But it sounds like you're hearing something in her testimony
over the past several days that you are now in
your mind, So that means maybe in juror's minds, there's
some accountability.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Definitely in juror's minds.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
That she should have taken. Then where I mean, it's
the largest conversation in society we can have, but it's
also an important one in that courtroom. But where are
we Where do you find accountability in her testimony to
where she had opportunities that you think the jury might
see as well?
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Okay, and then keep remember that very in because you
know how I wander and I want to talk about
the jury at the end of this for a second,
because we're getting a lot more information about the jury now,
and it's we'll save it for a podcast, but let's
dive into it a tiny bit. You ask me where
I see the opportunities if I'm in the jury. After
she says what her price is, he says, fuck you.
(07:54):
They go back and forth. He threatens to show her
baby daddy the tapes of her in these videos in
the freak offs or they were calling it a hotel
parties or hotel nights.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
That's key. Grab a hold of that piece.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
And then they in the call with her saying she
wants to kill herself, nobody will ever love her. Then
he says, call KK. She handles everything good old co
conspirator having asked KK allegedly, so KK responds with hey babe, period,
(08:31):
and then it goes on to tell her, you guys
always have your issues. Things always end up working out.
We always find ourselves back here. You just need to
take a break. So she finds herself at a point
where there's a break. She gets her only fans popping off.
She gets invited to be sent out to Vegas. She
gets invited to go out date or go be seen whatever.
(08:53):
There's money, there's opportunity, there's.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Things happening there.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
She gets brought back to a room where there's a
famous rapper, famous people, famous girlfriends. They were holding back
from the names being displayed, but basically she realizes, oh wow,
there's a freak off happening in this room right now
with Anton. He's one of my regulars over with Puff.
I just think that part's important because this is happening
(09:20):
with a whole lot of rappers apparently, and they may
be all using the same people because she recognized Anton.
Then she goes through that whole phase, and then Diddy
hits her up one day, missing that smile. There's opportunities
through all of this now, right because she's still he's
paying for her place and all of that, but she's
getting her income on by doing OnlyFans. She's getting paid
(09:43):
by doing other potential escorting or whatever we want to
call it gigs. And then her and Diddy start talking.
She starts fighting back. They have conversations, and she ends
up back in freakofs again. So she's now seeing Cassie's suit.
She understands the piece that she didn't ever experience was
(10:04):
the fighting. She even asked him about it. He says,
Cassie threw hands a lot. She was a fighter. So
she comes back, freak offs start occurring, She's back up
in them, March hits, Homeland Security comes knocking. Did he
pays for her to have attorneys? All of these are
the open areas you're asking me about, TJ. She had
(10:25):
Homeland Security sitting in front of you at this point.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
You're safe girl.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
When I sat with Homeland Security, I was like, am
I safe? And they told me the level of protection
that I'm at at this game, at this stage and
this time of at this point, and how visible I
make myself. They're like, you make yourself pretty visible. It'd
be hard to get rid of you. People would be
wondering where the fuck you're at. You know, you can
(10:49):
ask them these types of questions. These are all moments opportunities. Okay.
So then even after Homeland Security comes, he pays for
her attorney and comes back Good Ol'lanton. It runs around
with all the wrappers and the freak offs. Apparently many
of them are doing it. Good o'lanton comes back and
extorts her with one of the videos that was taken
(11:10):
on his phone. A media company ends up buying that
video and it never gets seen again. I'd like to
know what media company that was.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Hmmm, let's put.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
The internet to work. Then June comes and that's when
the knockdown fight happens. That's when the abuse comes her way.
We heard a lot of horrific abuse, so much abuse
that it goes through the night to the next morning.
When someone's arriving for a freakoff, she has to go
get herself. Cute comes out, he gives her the pill
(11:43):
and he looks her dead in her eyes and says,
now this is now You're being coerced.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Is this coersion to you?
Speaker 4 (11:52):
And then she goes into the freak off and starts
performing for the freakoff.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
You know what, can I ask you? What did you
make of you? Remember Diddy's apology video.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Yeah, that's coming. So my next part these little moments
where you're saying, where's her opportunities? So that whole freak
off ends in a really bad way. He sends twelve
to fifteen thousand to pay for the fucked up Airbnb,
pay for Anton and whatever else. Then July comes another
freak off. Puff gets bored. This time has a black
(12:27):
bottle of liquid Mollie that he sprays in her mouth.
Let's all just remember that in case it ever gets
brought up in a marine day in the future. A
black bottle spray in your mouth. It's the new it
drug that everyone's doing. You've never had anything like it.
She said she had the best sex of her life.
She's never performed better than when she got that spray
out of the black bottle. Okay, so then she she's
(12:53):
going off. Puff's looking bored. At one point during a
freak off she wants to bring She says she misses Paul.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
They call Paul.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Paul can be there. In a couple of days. Paul comes.
They get involved in these freak offs. August is the
last time she sees him, but she gets ready to
go see him again. And by the way, the Cassie
tape during this time has dropped. She's there when they're
plotting how do we respond to this? She's even shown
(13:22):
a video of one of the versions of his apology
and thinks her responses, and they tried to stop her
at every angle the defense did. Her response is it
doesn't feel sincere, which was what we all got from
the version we saw. She saw a different version, not
even the one that we saw. But there were takes,
(13:42):
tj there were multiple takes and not that like, you know,
if you're a smart guy and you've got a lot
of rich lawyers around you, you probably should do a
few takes. But truly, if you're honestly sincerely sorry, do
you do a few takes? And then she was asked
which one is the which is the best one?
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Does this look good to you?
Speaker 4 (14:07):
That's a choice to stay there, And then the last
time she sees him is in August, and then she
gets the drugs ready and all the products ready, and
she's about to get on the plane to get to
New York because they're gonna have another fun time in
New York and he accidentally goes and walks into the
hotel and gets indicted. The Feds grab him. That's the
video we all saw. She was snatched up, and then
(14:30):
she then says even after that point, she's her house
is still being paid by him. Her lawyers, two different lawyers,
are being paid by him. And she was working with
the defense in the very beginning and meeting with them
willingly until through some therapy she decided that she was
going to reclaim herself and reclaim herself as a woman
(14:53):
and stand up for herself. And now she is testifying.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
I'm curious though, with all of that, Aubrey, and she's
fully admitted this. We're hearing the audio recordings, we're seeing
the text in real time where she does say she's
just wanting to be with him and she doesn't want
to go through all of these freak ofughs and the
pain and all of these things she's feeling.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
So we're seeing all of that.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
But then knowing the story I just laid out and
her being very upfront and transparent about it, doesn't that
make the atrocity she does testify to all the more credible.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Well, let's see how much more.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
She didn't say today when she gets cross examined, because
with all of the details on the table, listen, it
started to get so messy for me in my head
as I was really watching, And mind you, I wasn't
just watching the breakdowns from really established journalists. I was
going all the way to the streets and listen to
(16:00):
what people were just saying after observing it in court
for themselves. When I went across the board and started
really assessing it from every angle, everybody was so divided
on her, so divided, and so for me, I really
had to sit back and think, like I feel, there
were moments that she had outs and I don't know
(16:21):
how to say that and still be pro woman and
not even and not still. I think the way to
do it is to say, I am looking at a
victim one hundred percent. I'm also looking at a victim
that potentially learned how to manipulate people to get things
that she wanted as well.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Did he was manipulating, she was manipulating. Is there a.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Power imbalance and is there all kinds of things psychologically
that are out of her favor? Absolutely, But she, by
her own admission, at the very end, she says, you
know that she wishes him well and she hopes that
he's happy.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
I mean, she says she still loves him, and I.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Mean she could.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
It felt like she'll give him a call if he
gets off, is what it was giving me.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I don't know, Yeah, yeah, I mean I think we
felt the same way, and that was a hard thing
to get our heads around. To know that she could
speak to these unthinkable atrocities that would be a horror
show for I think most people. And yet at the
same time, after having detailed and relived them, as she's
(17:28):
up on the stand right there and actually had the
videos being played for the court room. I mean, how
humiliating is that, even if at the time you were
doing what you were wanting to do. Still to see
such intimate private moments displayed, I mean, just what she
went through, and then to be able to still say
I love him and I wish nothing.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
But peace for him.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
That that's a I was struggling with how you could
think both things.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
It's given performance, you think.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
It's performance, and on which one is the performance?
Speaker 4 (18:02):
It's giving an awareness of manipulation A tiny bit.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Diddy was finicky.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
They said he was the most finicky they've ever seen
of every witness that's taken the stand. She had a
stress ball in her hand that she was using during
the entire time. There's something there that's stressing both of
them out. Now, whether she's stressed over the cross and
he's stressed at her her taking the first stab at
(18:29):
the story. I don't know whether there's other people involved,
whether this gets much bigger, whether I don't for me,
I looked at it and I'm like, I don't see
an upside for her, Like she doesn't get to retire
into some settlement.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Now.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
A lot of people are saying they were suggesting prosecution
kept trying to steal this away from the defense, like,
let's bring it up so when the defense does, it's
doesn't hit that hard that you know, eminem type, I'll
say everything bad about myself first, so when you come
for me, it doesn't look that bad. They did say
you went back to his house after they went through
(19:03):
their whole beat down, and you had a black eye,
and you took a lot of pictures that day with him,
a whole lot. There was a lot of voice memos,
there was a lot of saving things. Were you doing
that on purpose? Were you building a case. She kept saying, no,
she just wanted to show that she lives the lifestyle.
She wanted proof to be able to flosster her friends
(19:24):
and whatever else.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
But you have a black eye.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
I don't know. I don't take selfies with myself or
my lover that gave me a black eye when I
have a black eye, I don't know. Why did He
was even behaving like that because his ass was already
being investigated openly in front of the world, and he
was still in the freak offs. All the way up
to that hotel that he got busted up in with
his kids with him, he was still doing the freak offs.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
He was still on the drugs. He still had a
girl coming. There was a girl willing to come.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Every woman in this entire world, and every man that's
decent for the most part, has a really big fucking
problem with that Cassie video. Disgusted, visceral men were having
visceral responses, and yet there was somebody there assessing how
the apology should look and willing to still come and
do a freak off. It's it's not giving me the
(20:17):
same thing that other people were giving.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
It's giving me something different.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
Is it establishing some things for the prosecution, like deeper
in the sex trafficking pocket. Yeah, we've gone deeper in
that pocket. But with all the confusion of their relationship
and the desires and the manipulating on both sides, it
almost feels like I'm overwhelmed and I don't know if
I can I can get back to the legal part.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
And I'm hearing that a lot.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
There's a lot of connection with Diddy and the jurors,
a few in particular. The judge has even made a
statement about no more contacting, no more facial communications with
the jury, bud, But how do you rewind that? How
do you rewind that? And so to me, I'm like,
I don't know this one is feeling. It's so dv
(21:08):
So you know, she's getting things. She's aware, she had
a price and she named it. Now did she get it? No,
it seems like she was still going back.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Now.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
He also was paying for her home. But I see
a lot of women being like, listen, if someone were
paying for my home and having me completely come outside
myself and my only other option was to get a job,
I'd get a fucking job. Now that's hard, because that's
what I wrote you, Amy, like I've had many times
in my life where I have seen girls that decide
(21:42):
to go down a different route than having to figure
out the nine to five or whatever a job looks
like to anyone's dreams, okay, and how I've always had
a bit of judgment for those girls because they just
have it so easy, and I never do even when
I have to make.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
It look easy, it's so hard.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
But then I see what they're having to do on
the stand, and I'm realizing that's worse than my worst day.
So then what I wrote ended up writing you I
think this week and was just like I asked TJ
if he feels these things, because I don't know that
women have the same options as men. I don't even
(22:22):
know that we're socialized or understand ourselves to be of
the same value as men, even if we were raised
in a healthy situation. I don't it sounds so easy
to me, go get a job. It's got to be
better than this other stuff. But she didn't. She stayed
(22:45):
in that lane, and it was good for her and
fine with her, but then it wasn't fine with her
because she's on the stand, and it's not fine with her.
And one more thing I wanted to point out, they're
going to really push you want your own lawsuit, You
set it up to kind of be your own version
of what you read throughout casting, and then kind of
they're going to suggest that she likely was manifesting it
through her behavior.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
How I look at it is.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
She hasn't filed a lawsuit and she wishes him well,
but she's also nowhere near the statute of limitation. Either.
My statute of limitation and for my era of anyone
that was abused ended the day it ended. I remember
I went to dinner with my friends and we all
had a drink because I knew that was the last
and final day that.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
I could ever.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Have justice if something really horrible happened to me and
I wasn't going to be able to get them by
that day.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
That was a hard night for me.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
She's not anywhere near her statue she could file at
any point after this trial up until her statute of limitations,
and she was just with him when he got indicted
two twenty twenty four. She's got a while. So just
because she doesn't have a lawsuit now doesn't mean she
won't have a lawsuit. And Also, if I were a
smart person and Ditty's paying for her lawyer, let me
(24:08):
just stop at that. Diddy's paying for her lawyer, y'all.
That's like y'all getting taken off that show on some BS,
which is what happened to you guys, and them paying
for y'all's lawyer. How much justice are you actually going
to get? What you're going to do is you're gonna
get a payoff at some point to have done to
have not opened your mouth and lift up too much
(24:28):
against the system. That's what happens when you have the
system paying for your lawyer. I don't know if it's this.
I'm taking back ownership of myself and I'm a woman.
Hear me, roar, I'm not meeting with the defense anymore.
I'm gonna come up here and tell my story. Then
I'd take my OnlyFans dollars and get my own lawyer
(24:49):
to help me do that.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
He says, she's a survivor. She did what she's doing,
what she has to do to survive. Her testimony is not.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Going to make Is that all you have to do
to survive? Is my question, And I don't know how
to ask that as a woman. Who's pro female. Have
you ever felt TJ like your lowest day? You need
to go out there like Anton and starts swinging the
deed around.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
I mean, it's it's kind of what I'm currently doing.
Uh Okay, we needed that, we needed that, We needed
a little we really need a little laught because this
stuff is heavy. But the debate and the question you're
talking about is how should we handle, how should we view,
how should we teach in a moment like this where
there is a woman who's doing what she had to
(25:34):
do to survive to I'm not gonna judge her, I guess.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
Is that how we're gonna say?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
I don't know. I get, I don't know, and I'm
I'm told she's a victim, and I'm told she's an
abuse victim of a certain type. That I will never
begin to understand what that does to somebody. And I'll
never understand, to your point, because I'm a man, and
because I'm from a home and educated and middle class
and all this, I will never understand what it feels
(25:59):
like to be so desperate and think I have no
other option in life, but to like you said, do
something untoward or legal even amy.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Have you seen women though that do it, that that
isn't their only thing that they have left the Actually,
when I look at this woman, Jane, I see a
ton of potentials for her.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
She's gorgeous.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
She could start her own lines, hairlines, brow lines, makeup lines,
clothing lines. She could use it a little bit of
the only fans money to front a business. She has
so many options in my eyes.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
But how many options does she have for a multimillion
naire wrap mogul influencer guy, like, like, that's the option.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
That's what I was just going to say.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
This isn't about putting food on the table for her children,
or putting food on the table for herself, or even
as she said, keeping a roof over her head.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
That was not what this was about.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Because, as you point out, she was blessed with a
lot of amazing qualities that she could have used to
make a decent living. But that was never going to
give her private planes and fancy cars.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
And I don't even think she was getting private.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Places, studied parties, and access to a whole world that
she could never get on her own. And so she
was I mean, you could argue she wasn't in a
place where she was fighting for survival, She was fighting
for uber success that she didn't think she could get
on her own, and so she traded. Many people would
say her self worth and thing she stood for to
(27:32):
get that moment, that pie in the sky moment where
she got to be one of the it girls, one
of the you know, living a life that I don't
think any of us really know.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Aubury, you told us that world is intoxicating.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
I mean, I've lived it. Can I tell you one thing?
Speaker 3 (27:47):
All the people that I know that.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Are living it are miserable. A f if I could
tell any anything to any young person that is watching
this and listening to us, that is not a place
where all the happiness in the world resides.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
It just isn't.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
More money, more problems was a real song, and it
hit home for everybody for a reason. More money, more problems.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
It just gets harder, harder, heavier.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
The decisions are steeper, the moral compass choices they get
put in front of you are much The line becomes
thinner and thinner, and you have to walk very carefully
not to fall. I hate that people look up to
it the way they do. That's not anything we're going
to be able to change with this podcast. But obviously
(28:37):
I think this trial, if nothing else, is a testimony
to how miserable the person who's on trial truly is inside,
and how miserable everyone that comes within his path ends.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Up to your point, it's I mean, you've seen a
little bit of this, just when you're in any sort
of career and you reach the top and you start
to see the people who are at the pinnacle. Most
of them don't seem happy and they have everything in
(29:10):
the world at their fingertips, and that was.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Always a shocking thing.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
And this is on a much smaller scale than anything
that you've experienced or seen in that entertainment world. But
I do think it's you see Diddy, it's once you
get to a certain level, you're trying to get to
the next one and the next one. Once you reach
a certain high, you need a bigger high, a better high,
and each time it's not good enough.
Speaker 5 (29:31):
And to that point when we heard.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
When we heard Jane say that she was excited about
going somewhere with him, just the two of them, and
he was bored. So everything's on such a hyper scale,
nothing's ever good enough, and therefore there's just incredible sadness
because you can never you're looking for that high from
outside sources.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
Right, and you can almost even bring that back to
Cassie like she felt proud of herself when he was
happy with her. And it sounds like the It sounds
like Jane had that same line of thinking, like I
couldn't make him happy, he was bored. So then I suggested,
let's call this guy. He can come here in two days,
Let's do an all star party. Let me give you this,
let me give you that. There is a lot of
(30:13):
I mean, listen, it's still coercion. Even I thought to
myself when he gave her the pill and she was
about to go do the freak off, and he looked
in her face and said, is this coercion? I had
to stop and think, like was that an out or
was that more coercion? Like it's complicated because I guess
if you're really if you're really groomed, then you just
(30:36):
put your head down and you do your job. But
if you have anything where you've gained some self esteem,
I'd be like, I'm not gonna be coerced in this moment.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Later, bro, can.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
You tell me I think you said it right off?
The top. The difference. You said, a younger generation versus
an older generation of women are viewing things differently.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
What you mean by that, and racially too, I'm noticing
the difference. I mean, I think it's important that we
just say what it is. So generationally women that are
older that I speak to. Now, I'm old and some
people don't think I'm old, and I think I'm a grandparent,
so I'll say I'm forty one, so my age a
little bit younger, like thirty five up kind of have
(31:16):
this understanding of DV. A lot of us have an
understanding of DV and the psychology behind it, which means
a lot of us have probably ventured into it a bit.
Have you been ventured into it at all? Amy?
Speaker 5 (31:29):
No? No, no, no, no, I mean I think you know everyone. No,
not verbal violent verbal violence.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Yes I have had that abuse, but yes, yeah, but
it does it does.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Knock you dumb when you say you know what I
have ended up doing in moments where I didn't know
how I felt.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
I actually made video diaries. I still have them.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
I try to go for you look back at them
and just in real time, remember where I was and
how I never want to be there again, But no,
it's it is something that happens gradually sometimes and you
don't even realize it's happening.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
So then I think, I think there's this generational that
and that age range of us. And I think the
men too, who are likely more so dads, more calmed down.
The libido isn't driving them every which way. They've had
to create a stable life around these ages. Potentially all
of us kind of have this understanding that, like, we
don't want to be in toxic relationships. We've done them,
(32:20):
we know how they look, we know how they feel,
and we're not interested. Guys they've hooked up with the hoes,
there's no they understand that they want a wife instead,
you know what I'm saying. And then this younger generation
is not looking at it with the same eyes. Then
the younger generation is so different. Even when I talk
to my god daughter the because everything is so there's
(32:43):
just no delayed gratification, absolutely none.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
It is the here and now.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
And if you can't give me within fifteen seconds in
this TikTok video, TikTok is so difficult for me, y'all
hear how much I run on You think I could
ever do a TikTok fifteen seconds? So fuck am I
going to do in fifteen seconds? I can't even get
five words out in fifteen seconds. That's not enough time
for me. That that platform is, that platform was made
by the devil and for a person like me, So
(33:10):
so I don't. The younger generation is like, we need,
we need this. In soundbites, this girl was getting this,
that and the other the and then culturally a lot
of white women that I know in the courtroom or
white men have come out and said, like, this is horrific.
She she it was hor horrible. She was sobbing. It
broke my heart. It established sex trafficking what she had.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
To go through.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Then then there's academics sitting there, uh like geeked out
at I think his literal phrase was, Man, what a
bitch you'll do for a sectional? Yeah, he was just
reading the court transcripts and he said, damn, what a
bitch will do for a sectional? And he said that
(33:57):
because she's because she offered him an all star three
of her, three of Ditty's favorite escorts all on her
as a big blowout all star party. And acc was like, damn,
Like these bitches will just do anything for this, that
and the and then the bitch word just flew out
of his mouth. And a lot of guys that you
(34:19):
know behind closed doors, a lot of the younger generation.
I don't know how old act is, but like I
suppose more in the hip hop culture for sure. Even
according to Jane's testimony, she walked into a party and
there was good old Anton Anton whatever her fazis from
the Freak Offs, and Anton was doing a little number
(34:41):
with somebody else for another rapper and his girl. And
you know, we're not here to out the entire hip
hop industry, but we could. I could definitely if I
had the time. I've sat next to people that had
just literally openly at a bar after a drink, told
me about whole ass situations people. La is very vocal.
(35:03):
It's shocking, it's shocking. The thing that shocked me the most,
I remember going to a gay club right after we
made the band that were out in like, uh Times Square.
We did our last interview and all of the girls
we all went to a gay club with some of
our like somebody's best friends. We all went out. We're
having a good time and this guy comes over and
he's like you guys are so fucking cute. And he
(35:24):
comes around and me, He's like, girl, you're the fucking
shit and you'll learn soon enough. I fuck your boss
allegedly because I don't know if he fucked my boss,
but he said that to me. I remember within days
of me making the band, some guy at a gay
bar told me, I fuck your boss. And I didn't realize.
I didn't realize until I went to a gay bar
(35:46):
that was like with some of my like long established
friends in New York when I was living there. Uh think, yeah,
when I was like officially living in New York. And
they are more straight, they have more straight qualities as
gay men, and you wouldn't they They wouldn't know, You
wouldn't know if they were gay or not. In a room,
there's nothing like, there's nothing like outwardly exposing their sexuality.
(36:09):
We went into this club. Everybody was hood as hell,
gangster hip hop music playing like street fashion to the tens.
Like everybody looked fine, and I was like, there are
so many guys in here, I could literally have my pick.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
This is bomb.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
And the guy with me was like, oh baby, we're
we're in a gay club. And I was like, I've
never a gay club. To me, it's like rainbows and
fucking glitter and pride, and no, it was just us.
It looked like a hood bar. Now listen, if it's
all done willingly and everybody is agreeing to everything, then fine.
(36:45):
But but like, if it's not and there's coercion, force
or any of these other things involved, it doesn't just
look any It looks all types of ways and all
types of people are doing it.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
I'm not familiar with this term online robes. I don't
know if you are, but a cuck Okay, but yeah,
it's now they've been using it for short. This has
come up and I'm bringing this up to you now
because this happened just as testimony was going on as
we're doing this recording, and Jane, yes, Jane is testifying
(37:27):
about some of the things that did He is into,
and she said she described him as a cuck, which
is a guy who has pleasure seeing his woman get
pleasure from the other man. She went on to say
this though Aubrey cucks could also have a by curiosity
(37:49):
that they are too ashamed to experience themselves, so they
use the woman to venture out in this curiosity. Without
actually doing the act themselves.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
And there is where all of the magic is really in. Now,
we can't assume what's in anyone's mind, nor would we
be wise too, But in that last little bit that
you just said is where I've always felt the magic
is in regards to.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Hurt people. Hurt people.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
When you become famous for a certain thing, you gotta
be that thing. And if that thing is a hip
hop artist in the nineties, you can't be gay period.
There's no We're not having a think piece. There's no
think piece on that. I mean, when I came home
from Bali and TikTok arrived and there were two white
men talking about wearing dreads and talking about what are
(38:43):
the island boys? I was like, what in the cultural
appropriation is going on? And then they went on OnlyFans and
hooked up with each other and their brothers, and I
was like, this would never have happened back in my
day of music. Nineties, for sure, that would never have occurred.
But when you grow up in a time and a place,
in an era where you're entire like, we're talking about
(39:06):
what will these women do?
Speaker 3 (39:07):
What will men do? What would did he do? You
know to stay on top.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
Somebody's doing something that could cross you, that could fuck
up your business. People were getting murdered back then, and
then we get all the way to these these You know,
maybe if you feel a certain way, like you said,
sometimes with cuck holding and that's in that setting, it
can be someone who desires. It seems like in all
(39:34):
of the sexual situations that we continuously hear, there is
a lot of discussion about the men looking a certain way,
the dicks looking a certain way, and the dicks being
a certain color. It's very specific about how he wants
the dicks to be, a lot of conversations about the dicks,
(39:54):
a lot of non excitement until a dick comes out.
So to me, I think to myself, if you had
to suppress who you really were because fame was calling shit,
I had to. I got fired for being raunchy and promiscuous.
I have no ability to have a career in any
other lane. Everybody's playing me, humiliating me when I try
(40:16):
to go in and music and real deals things I
should be doing. I'm an intellect I went to college,
I have a degree. And then Hugh Hefner comes and says,
cover a playboy, you don't even have to show anything
but your tits. Let's go, and here's over half a
million dollars. I had never even been paid. It was
a no brainer for me. But then, because I chose
(40:37):
to jump into the lane that was handed to me,
I've had to do a delicate dance in that lane
my entire career. That's difficult because I mean, like I said,
I haven't had sex in years. I'm not.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
I would never have sex with somebody for money. I
would never take have sex for a job. I lost
my job. I was willing to lose my job, you
feel me. So I'm actually like nowhere near that lane
in that respect. But I've had to dance within that lane.
And then when you have to dance in that lane
(41:13):
and it doesn't feel authentic to you.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Drugs are a really great escape.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
They really are the ones that the doctors give you
or the ones that the street people give you. Usually
it starts with doctors and then you run out, and
then you get a little street dealer that's got some
new jams, like a black bottle of some liquid spray.
It becomes inventive depending on who you're around and the
access that you have the money that you have. But
(41:38):
either way, I could kind of see this pattern of
maybe how did he lost the plot and how he
could have lost the plot, and how he could have
had to suppress maybe something that he was and maybe
the suppression got so intense that there was a lot
of amount of drugs around that kept it numb. There
were things that I experienced that I can't talk about
here that speak to this, and I think that there's
(42:03):
potentially like that's what I was trying to say to
you guys when I said, I think the only option
when he comes back around on this is to go
into what has hurt him, because if he came up
as a hip hop guy and he's the guy running
the bad boy, I mean, you know what you think
of when you hear bad boy records. I felt like
(42:25):
honored to be a white girl that could go home
to my hometown and be like, I'm signed a bad
boy baby, Like that's still a status play everywhere I go,
it's bad boy. Well, imagine how much of a bad
boy did he had to be? And I'm not saying
let's have sympathy for the man, but if he had
to suppress something that was very deep, and then he
(42:47):
got a dependent on drugs, which helps numb your real
feelings and maybe allows you to stay in your character.
It kind of means maybe he's had to be this
character his whole life. I don't know if he's ever
stepped out of the I don't even like thinking though
that way, because there's so many variations of everything anymore
(43:08):
that I don't even know that anything's as simple as
gay or straight. Those are the terms we used back
in my day, but nowadays there's eight hundred options. To me,
what I do know is that he did love Dix.
He did love the way they looked, he loved their shape,
he loved seeing them in action. That's been alleged in
(43:29):
everybody's testimony. And that's what I know to be true.
Is in my generation, younger kids might think differently. I know,
younger kids that are just more free with it and
don't put labels on things. Our generation labeled things more,
and there were like categories and they were simple. There
wasn't like seven hundred of them. It's why people have
(43:51):
gotten frustrated with I mean, it's a whole different topic,
but it's why people get frustrated with liberals. Nowadays, they
just opened the door for too many things, and the
people older people are a little bit tighter in the crotch.
We don't want to have to learn all the letters
and the names and the fucking titles and all the
When I had I did a sex pod with a
sex therapist, I really had to look things up. I am.
(44:13):
I am not as like I thought I was really
killing it when I was sexually active. I was really
not killing it that much. Like there are so many terms.
I mean, I didn't know velvet was something until I
learned that that velvet has more meetings than just fabric.
I did not know. You know, there's a lot going on.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Not the sex podcast.
Speaker 4 (44:32):
You guys are over there doing missionary. Then you got
something going on. Good God, let me.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Tell you I was boring. They don't ever get a
good show out this window behind us.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
Ever. I was gonna say, you guys have the opportunity
to do a whole lot. You guys would make a
killing on only.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
The stop stop stop. But no, this is all I
don't know. You were, you were on fire, you were
worked up, and I think a lot of people like
you and Robot are out there or are struggling.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
It's just hard.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
Amy. Did you come to an answer when I wrote that?
What was your thought when I sent that to you?
Speaker 2 (45:09):
You know, I'm with you in the sense that I
think both can be true. I think that she can
be a victim and at the same time yes, and
at the same time be complicit and at the same
time wanted. I don't know how important it would be
for a Jorge to know what your motives are. Yes,
it sounded like money was a motive, but I actually
(45:30):
think from what I saw or read and she loved,
it was for love. And as a woman, I can
totally understand that to a point, but it's conflict. I
was conflicted as well.
Speaker 4 (45:41):
I saw the love thing when she said. When she
ended that I'm going to kill myself, she said, no
one's ever gonna love me. No one's ever loved me.
That's not something you say that in a transaction. The
price payment points that she listed out, those were transactional,
but the last line isn't transactional, And that told me
she's both. She knows she's transactional. I didn't get transactional
(46:03):
from Cassie. Maybe as she got like years down the line,
but this one is too new, and this one is
very much in an era. You know, COVID changed a
lot of things. And when TikTok and podcasts are deciding
the music industry, now followers are deciding your paychecks, comments
and views are deciding your status in the celebrity world.
(46:26):
It's asked backwards. Talent is nowhere in the sentence, nowhere
in any sentences. I haven't heard anything about talent. We
can't even watch music awards shows anymore.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
They're a joke.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
AMA's flopped, BT's this past weekend horrible, like it's not
I don't know what's even going on in music anymore,
and everybody feels it. But this younger generation and these
new ideas are kind of taking over. And that's why
I think to myself, this is going to be so split.
I don't know how a jury. I don't know how
(46:58):
you could get someone like us to understand all the
broad open thinking that's happening in a younger generation. I
don't know how you get a white person to fully
understand a black man's experience, or a black person to
understand a white man's experience.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (47:13):
There's got to be so many levels of emotions that
they're gonna have to be able to pull on and
reason and all of these things that I just don't
I don't know that we're going to get a jury
that can all fully do that. And it already sounds
like there's a lot of facial communications going on that
are toxic for this type of environment. I think, at
(47:36):
the very least, I think they think they're going to
be hung on unless they have KK and a bodyguard,
they're going to be hung on. Rico. Sex trafficking might
be there and transporting people I've said early on is there.
Those each have a ten year on them, so that's
twenty then sex trafficking, I believe is a fifth is
(47:58):
a twenty year sentence per So there's two sex tracking sets.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
Forty forty twenty. He's how old is he?
Speaker 2 (48:05):
Do?
Speaker 4 (48:05):
You guys know?
Speaker 5 (48:05):
It's like mid fifties, mid fifties.
Speaker 4 (48:08):
So you add you add sixty to that. I think
I heard if the sentence gets too big, they just
call it life. Someone told me that you couldn't talk down,
you couldn't lower federal charges in your sentence.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
I don't know that that's true.
Speaker 4 (48:25):
I think you can get good behavior and things like
that that will lower your sentence.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
But you know, the idea that.
Speaker 4 (48:34):
The confusion, the confusing parts of this could confuse enough
or even one person enough to not understand the criminal
aspects of all of this is pretty scary for a
whole lot of people.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
We've been saying it just takes one juror so. Aubrey,
thank you for going through so much of what I
think a lot of folks are feeling, especially women watching
and reading and hearing about this testimony. It is conflicting,
but it was really cool to get your perspective, especially
with everything you know in the industry and certainly in
that world. And we're going to continue to talk to Aubrey,
(49:15):
continue to cover this trial and talk about the impact
not only just on the people who are in that courtroom,
but I, as you were pointing out, Aubrey, hopefully the
whole music industry and perhaps other industries, other entertainment industries, and.
Speaker 4 (49:29):
Women too, to women's worth, understanding themselves sexually, their value,
men getting to see how damaging it could be if
you're stringing a woman on for sexual reasons. There are
so many topics that are right up in front of us,
like you could learn a whole lot about the people
around you. If you just asked to have one little
(49:49):
discussion over dinner about Diddy, you could learn who your
friends are quickly, and you could learn who the cuck
hoolds are real quickly if you bring up the terms
velvet the other ones they learned. I mean, there's a
whole dictionary.
Speaker 5 (50:02):
I think we could save that for the after dinner drink.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
But yes, that sounds good. Thank you, Aubrey, Thank you
all for listening to us. Please check out this feed.
We will have more content for you shortly. But have
a wonderful day, everybody.
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