Falling in Love with Pastor Cal

Pastor Cal (Married at First Sight) helps Amy and T.J. navigate how important is it to be affectionate and have chemistry with your partner.

Plus, why marriage may be something they should seriously consider. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Either everybody. In this episode, Robank and I reveal that
we have been in couples counseling with two licensed therapists
the past year and it hasn't cost us a dime. Also,
whatever you think is the problem in your relationship, it's
not really the problem. We're going to tell you what
your problem is. And also, one of the foremost and

(00:23):
visible relationship experts in the country does not believe you
can fall in love. And with that, everybody, welcome to
this episode of Amy and TJ Robes. Falling in love?
You with it, you're not with You believe it's possible.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
I think you can fall in lust and then you grow.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
In love, growing love, but not fall in love.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
I think you fallen lust. I think that's true, and
I think I think love comes with time and with
really knowing someone. You don't really I don't think you
can really love someone until you truly know someone and
accept all of their faults so you can come with them.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
So I assume love at first sight is not something.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
You think is possible.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
I think it's lust at first sight.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Okay, what is this is my fault? I set myself
up every time I was talking to you about fall
in love. You go back to this lust thing, and
I have to hear about all this lustful relationship pastry
you've had, you did it last time. Yeah, I've been
in a lust of lot. Y'all remember, right, they're laughing,
they remember. But it's fascinating to hear that everybody. I think,

(01:25):
generally speaking, you hear so many people talk about I
fell in love and then I fell in love a
couple of times, or I've been in love a few times,
but that a relationship expert doesn't believe that's the case
is fascinating to hear, and we're talking about it. We've
talked about it a lot on this on our podcast.
Some of the shows we've been watching, and some of
them we were initially wanted to be kind of dismissed.
I stay dismissive in that a ninety day fiance or

(01:47):
merit at first sight, like this is silly, that'll never work,
this is just for entertainment purposes. But you and I
have sat and watched these shows and went, wow, we
are learning in watching how people communicate.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Right, Because yes, of course it's entertaining. But what you're seeing,
I believe, are people who are desperate to want to
be together, but don't necessarily know as I think we
can all put ourselves in this situation. We don't know
how best to communicate with each other, to commiserate, to
support each other. We just our egos get in the way.

(02:22):
And it's easy to see it in other people and
much harder to acknowledge it in yourself. But sometimes when
we're watching these shows, I'm like, oh, oh, I do that,
you know, and you actually get some self reflection by
seeing other people put themselves out there. And it's easier
to witness it first than someone else and then maybe
hopefully acknowledge it in yourself.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
But we watch it sometimes we see I'll see the
guy saying something in a certain way to his wife
and uncle and see it that way. But it is
I think there is incredible value now in the show.
I would have been dismissive ahead of time, but now
that I've watched, they wonderful experiments in relationships and communication,

(03:03):
which is always key. Now, I said, you and I
have been in in couples counseling the past year, but
our counselors don't realize they were counseling us all. One
of them was the guy we had on the show,
good friend of ours, Jeff Guardier, doctor Guardia America Psychologists.
But we had him on to talk about I don't
even remember the first time, and it turns into a

(03:24):
session for you and I to talk about our relationship.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
We started asking questions, he started giving us advice, and
we thought, wait, what's happening. I think we're having a
therapy session right now. And it worked, and I think
a lot of people got a lot of really good
actionable information from it.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
And doctor Guardia, you can keep sending those invoices if
you want, but yeah, we're probably not gonna respond. But
the other person that's been giving us counseling, who had
no idea probably until this moment, is God by the
name of Pastor cow now Pastor cal you all know
because the show has been wildly popular. Here is one
of the experts. It's the therapist on married at for

(04:02):
a site, which has been around now for seventeen seasons.
I think this is two thousand and oh help me
with the year, but it's been around two thousand and
four I think was first launched, maybe, but almost twenty years, yes,
and all these seasons. But we have watched I think
we really love him. Doctor Pepper is on there as well,
Pepper Schwartz. Yeah, you don't know, but to hear to
see how they counsel and sometimes are hard on these

(04:23):
people on this show to some tough love, like you
got to stop doing that. And it's been fun to watch.
And he is one that we loved, loved watching.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah, Pastor cal actually and funny. I looked him up
today and saw that he's got some Michigan roots, and
that actually made a lot of sense to me because
some of the things he says I hear from my
Michigan parents. Love is a decision was one of the
biggest things my mom had always preached, and I never
really understood it. It didn't really click for me until
much much later in life. But I heard Pastor kel

(04:53):
saying the very same thing, and I get it now.
It's it's the hard times that you choose to love
so one even when you don't like them in the
moment maybe, And those are the moments where you're choosing
to love someone and to put what they need ahead
of what you want. And to me, that's when it
it's the hardest. But when you get on the other

(05:14):
side of it. That's where the beauty is.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Okay, But Pastor cow As we bring you in here, now,
what is wrong with all of us? And I'll raise
my hand here as well. You heard what she just said, Pastor,
call that folks think that you have that love is
not well? How'd you just put it? That your mom
is always.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
It's it's a decision, is not a feeling.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
It's a decision, okay, But what is wrong with any
of us having this romanticized idea of He's shaking his
head already. Come on, Pastor, cal this a romanticized idea
of being able to actually fall in love and that
being a real thing. Are we do we need to
get away from that?

Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah? I mean, hey, why it's good to be with
you guys. Good to see you again, te j. So look,
here's what's so cool and it's so interesting about love
and about this whole thing, is that, you know, I

(06:14):
think that the idea of falling in love is a
Western idea. It's one that we in America and in
the West, we really rally to that idea of falling falling,
falling in love. Roughly about seventy percent or so marriages
worldwide are arranged. These are marriages that have nothing to

(06:37):
do with with your feeling. They have to do with
coming together because you're joining legacies, you're joining families, you're
joining purposes, and then you learn to grow in love
after that. Those are and incidentally, those relationships, those marriages
have over a ninety percent success rate where people grow
in love. So, yeah, the Western idea of romantic sizing

(07:00):
and oh my god, you so fine, man, I gotta
be with you, you know, just like you said, Amy,
it's you're falling in lust. You know, it's it's something
that we've gotten so accustomed to. But I believe that
every time you fall in anything, you get hurt because
you have no control over it. And the notion that
you have no control over, over, over over this thing

(07:22):
that I'm just I just tripped. It's just out there
somewhere and I just tripped it. Oops, I'm in. It
is ludicrous that you fall into it. I have no
control over it. It just happens to me without any
kind of without my input. It just happened. Now, choosing
to love says, hey, look there's something in you. I
see a value. I'm making a conscious decision to fulfill

(07:44):
your legitimate needs, and that decision is going to be there,
That commitment is going to be there irrespective of how
I feel, irrespective of what I feel good about you
today and I don't feel good about you tomorrow, I'm
going to be there.

Speaker 4 (07:59):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
So what what is what is that?

Speaker 3 (08:03):
You know?

Speaker 2 (08:04):
What is the I'm curious though, because that seems tough
and hard to do and all of those things. I mean,
it's easy to say and really hard to do in
the moment. What is your best case for getting married?
What's the value in getting married? Why not just being
lost and go from person to person to person and
just seek that feeling that dopamine hit. What is the

(08:26):
case for marriage that you would make to people the
case for marriage?

Speaker 3 (08:30):
That is such a great question. You know, I believe
the marriage is honestly one of the building blocks of
a stable society. And I don't want to get you know, philosophical,
but I believe it is. I believe that, you know, marriages,
you start with marriage, then you have family, then families
build communities, then communities build cities, and cities build countries.

(08:51):
I believe the marriage is at the foundation. So when
people really start poopooing on marriage and say, you know,
you don't have to get married or whatever whatever. I
don't buy it. I don't buy it because I know
people who've been together forever. Well, I don't see. I
don't feel it's just a piece of paper, and they
can say that crap. I'm sorry. Can I just be
honest with yes? Please, they can say that crap. That

(09:12):
is just a piece of paper. I feel someone all
of a sudden, you know, doesn't want to be with
him anymore, you know, then all of a sudden they
wish that paper was there because that paper is actually
it brings legitimacy to it.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Okay, but please, you said bring legitimacy, but it's almost
it just makes it harder to break up. Robot and
I were talking about this not too terribly long ago,
and the Goldie Hawn Kurt Russell example. She always uses.
They have chosen to be together all this time and
never went down to a courthouse. And that's fine, but
there was some value or something more beautiful about someone. Right,

(09:48):
do you do you cage the bird or do you
give them the option to fly every day? And then
they keep coming back to you that argument? So please
help explain in all seriousness. Why that piece of pap
per still is so important.

Speaker 3 (10:02):
Well, I believe that the piece of paper is important
because you know, there there is a there's a saying
which says, you know that the things that I'll just
tell you, I'm a pastor, so I'm going to give
you a text. It says, give to Caesar the things
that belonged to Caesar and the God and things that
belong to God. And here's what it means. It means simply,

(10:24):
the legal laws of the land should prevail when they can,
and you should give credence to those when you can.
And your moral convictions, your moral convictions and the things
that you do morally, Okay, you have to consider that
as well. So they have so. So the piece of
paper is a is a is a thing that you
give to Caesar. The piece of paper is a It

(10:47):
is a way that people that the states recognize, the
cities recognize, the countries recognize that you're actually legally connected
to that person. I often believe that people don't want
to get married. They don't want the piece of paper
because they don't want that legal connection. I talked to
somebody recently who they've been together for fifteen years and
he refuses to marry her, and she said, well, if

(11:08):
it was up to me, we'd be married. And he's like, well, yeah,
but I'm just scared because I had a marriage before
and it failed, YadA YadA and all that. I'm like, dude,
you're not ready to give up your assets.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Okay, that's a lot of people would say that's legit pastical.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
You already, I mean, come on, but real commitment says
all that I have is yours and all that you
have is mine, and the legality of marriage ensures that.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, how do you know that he or she is
the one? Do you believe that there's that that light
bulb like the one? I'm curious.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
I don't you know what? Amy, I don't Okay, this
is not okay? Is there one?

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Right?

Speaker 3 (12:03):
No? I don't believe in though one. Okay, I believe
that there are a number of people that you could
possibly be happy with. It comes down to choosing. If
you believe that there is only the one, what happens
to that one? If God forbid, something happens to them
and they are in an accident before you meet them,

(12:23):
or if they're born in Afghanistan or any kind of
things that would happen. I mean, what happens if you
never meet that one, then you're just destined to be
alone because you're not the one. No grown ups make
choices to love. We find people who are compatible, who
share our values, who have even if our values are
different different, they are compatibly different. The differences are compatible.

(12:47):
You're an extrovert, I'm an introvert. We balance each other out,
you know, or whatever those values are regardless, you know
where those people. When we find those people, we make decisions.
You know, this person is worth me giving myself to.
I'm making a decision to legitimately commit myself to them,

(13:07):
for better or for worse, for Richard, for poor, sickness
and in health, but seeking all others and financial you know,
on no matter what happens till death to us part.
That is the commitment. And you make that with your mind,
not with your heart. The heart follows, but the mind
begins to g.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
Pastica ell on that point. And I think everybody's we
didn't really explain what meritive first sight is. I think
everybody knows what if you're not aware. The show essentially,
as people meet at the altar, they don't know each
other's name, they don't know anything but the experts. Essentially,
you all go through and try to find people who
are compatible. They meet at the altar, and then the
marriage goes on and they have I think a couple

(13:55):
of months to decide whether or not they can continue the
marriage or get a DIVORCEE Okay, So here's the thing
Robot just asked you about making the case for marriage.
Can you make the case for divorce? Because you all
on the show so often say you're not giving enough time,
you're quitting too early. You can make this work if

(14:18):
you want to. So given that it seems like there's
rarely could be and I'm not talking about extreme cases
of abuse or something like that in the house. That's different,
but can't what case can there be for getting divorced? If,
like you said, if your mind, if you're committed to it,
you can do.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
It, you know, And that's a great, great question. I'm
not the guy. My wife and I when we sit
down with couples and talk with him, we're not the
people who will say, you know what, just sticking there,
no matter what, you can make it. You'll make it,
you know, no matter what's going on just hanging it.
That's not us. If there's emotional abuse, I mean, it's

(14:55):
severe emotional abuse. And if the person is just completely
just intractable, that person will not change, okay, and that
person is just going to be a butthole. I mean,
it's just the way they are. And you're suffering emotional abuse.
If your children are abusive, if they're drug abuse, and
you decide to divorce, that's your call. That's completely your call.

(15:15):
And I have even told couples, I've told individuals rather
that it's will end couples. I've said, you know what,
it's important at this point that you consider whether or
not this marriage is worth saving, because in my opinion,
it's not. It's not. So I do believe that there
are some instances where it's now and the religious community

(15:36):
is going to eat me up for this, and personally,
I don't care, Okay, for the fact, I really don't.
For the fact is. The fact is, I'm a realist.
I'm a realist, and even in the.

Speaker 5 (15:51):
Religious community, and I know this is not a religious show,
but even the religious community, I can find instance after
the instance throughout scripture where people have divorced and gotten remarried, divorce,
got remarried because.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
I believe that, you know, the ideal situation is the
marry one person that stayed with him forever. That's the
ideal situation where doesn't always happen. No, I'm a second time.
I was. I was married once before. My wife and
I we both second time. You know, the first when
we were young, we were dumb, we had no knowledge,
we knew nothing of what we were doing. We made
very bad decisions, incredibly bad decisions. All we stuck with

(16:25):
those decisions until we die. Well, you know, circumstances made
it so that we could not stick with those decisions,
and so we got we divorced, and then we found
each other. And I believe we did a good job
in finding each other and making that decision to love.
But I do think that, you know it, marriage can
be difficult, but you know, there are some situations we're leaving.

(16:51):
Each of them might be the answer.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
I mean, I actually had therapists in both of my
marriages tell me that that it was not savable, So
you know, I mean, it's you know, I've gotten that advice,
and it did feel good to at least feel like
a professional agreed with the situation. Can I ask you
a question, a personal question, pastor cal you, what has

(17:15):
been the biggest challenge in your marriage?

Speaker 3 (17:21):
That's good. That's good, as Tej's. That's good, Robot. Probably
the biggest challenge in my marriage and our marriage. We're
a blended family. I had two children from a previous marriage.

(17:42):
My wife came in with our incredible daughter. I had
two boys and still do have two boys. They all
live here now. We consider ourselves one family. We've gone
through a lot of changes, a lot of trials and
what have you. But I think that raising kids in
a blended family has been our biggest challene. So I
think anything that Wynnie and I has gone, we've gone

(18:02):
through that we have been able to overcome it. We've
we've had arguments, yes, we've had some money ones, you know,
and we we understood something that we've never done. We've
never mentioned the D word. We don't even bring it up,
even no matter how bad it gets. And it's it's
different because we both got married, we're a little older.
You know, we've gone through stuff before. You know, we
we knew the real deal and we knew that once

(18:24):
we got married. Okay, fine, this is it forever And
we've stuck to that. But I think the biggest challenge
has been raising children. And for me, my kids were
a little older, you know, a teenager and one in
his late teens and one in as mid early teens.
And then raising those kids with us having different parenting

(18:47):
styles and just making that whole thing work has been
a pain in okay, But we're at a point now
where all that hard work and all that difficulty is
paying off and we're like, hey, you know, we actually

(19:09):
getting along now. Everybody's great. You know, I think everybody
loved me, so it's it's a good thing now. But man,
it was tough.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
We we can relate. We got to the other side
of that not too terribly long ago, in the in
recent months, so we know what that feels like. And
like you're saying that that was the biggest challenge, But
something else you've you've always said, no matter what do
you think your problem is in your relationship, whether that's finances,
whether that's fidelity, whether that's blended fans, whatever, you said,
that's not the problem. The problem is how you're communicating

(19:40):
about that problem. So it's still even with your case,
would you say It's still all about communication, oh man.

Speaker 3 (19:47):
Absolutely absolutely, there is nothing to people cannot overcome if
they're willing to be vulnerable and talk about it, listen
to each other's opinions, relent, give up when you know
you're wrong, Okay, give in and understand that even if
you're right, you have to extend grace and those two
people can then come together and find a solution. I

(20:08):
believe that. And it's and I'm glad you said that
because you know I wrote about that in my book
right there, in case you didn't know.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, marriage a for punks, right.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
I believe that how you communicate about it, it is
absolutely it's vital to your success. With my wife and I,
how we communicate about our dislike and I mean that
our dislike of our children. And that's tough, that's tough,
but you will me be straight. Let's be straight.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
We get it. We get it.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
We love our kids. I can say without question that
when they absolutely loves my sons, and I absolutely love
our daughter, I mean her daughter, our daughter, my son,
our sons. I think we absolutely But do we always
like them?

Speaker 2 (21:02):
The look on his face right now says no, no.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
Absolutely, not absolutely not. But how we communicate to each other,
and it will open and honest about expressing that and
not taking offense at it. You know, even though it
might be a little offensive, we don't take offense at it,
not really. You know. We'll listen and we'll say, you
know what, I don't really like her right now. I
really don't like him right now. You know why, We'll
tell me about it, and we talk about it. We're
willing because at the root of everything we're discussing, we

(21:27):
know that we want our marriage and our family to work.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, I'm curious. This is always a big question people ask,
chemistry or compatibility. Do you have to have chemistry? Do
you have to have compatibility to make a marriage work?

Speaker 3 (21:42):
You know what, I think that first of all, we
have to define chemistry because we believe I think quite
often it's almost like the falling in love concept. We
look at chemistry as an ethereal thing that floats out there,
and you know, we'll walk into the midst of it
and booth, there it is. You know, we connect. You know,

(22:02):
the cupid has slung its arrow and stuck through both
of us, and hey, we got chemistry. You know, I
believe chemistry can be created. Do you remember in high
school MIDB and middles scho I don't know when it
was for me, but when we did science experiments and

(22:23):
you put baking soda and vinegar, I think, and it
makes the volcano.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
You're creating.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
You're creating chemistry, right, You're taking two ingredients, putting them
together and you're making an explosion. It's the same thing
in a relationship. I've seen it over and over again.
People say, we don't love each other, we don't have
chemistry anymore. But if you do the things that are
necessary for chemistry to be there, then the chemistry will return.

(22:51):
But when you stop doing those things, it will lead.
But it's totally based on what you create.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
What are the things pastical?

Speaker 3 (23:00):
What are the things that you do for instance, And
I'm so glad you asked that. Here's some of the
things you can do to create chemistry, for instance, kindness.
You know, what are you actually doing? You'll notice that
one of the first thing that happens if there's a
disagreement or an argument is that you stop touching. Okay,
you go to the east side, you go to the

(23:20):
west side, north or south. I mean, the hell are
you sleeping? But you know you you separate each other,
keeping touch, keeping constant touch is a way of reminding
yourselves that we want to be together. Doctor Pepperah, I'll
give her credit for this. She always talked about it
with our couples. She says, when you're arguing whole hands

(23:40):
and it's so difficult, it's very difficult.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
I agree that difficult.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
But when you add rechet, because one person is going
to pull away and all of it is gonna be like,
I don't want to touch you. What are you crazy?
She's gonna cut me. No. But but you have to.
You have to do those things that people in love
do if you want to be in love. It's almost
like you have to touch. Okay, you have to do
kind gestures. I made up in my mind early on

(24:07):
in our marriage. But there are some things that I'm
always going to do for my wife, irrespective of how
I feel. I will always open the door for her,
no matter where, no matter what. I now might open
it and then when she gets in, I'll slam it,
but I'll open it. Get it in the car. No,

(24:27):
but I know, seriously, I'll open the door for her
all the time. I'm always going to try to be
kind to her. I'm always going to try to run
to her aid and she does the same thing to me.
It's not one sided, you know, irrespectable, what's going on?
You know, I like, I like maybe okay, I'm telling
you I'm a business now. Sometimes you know, she she
started this ritual when I went to bed. When we'd
go to bed, right before we go go to sleep,

(24:49):
she'll go to the bathroom and warm a handcloth or
a wash cloth or whatever, and she'd get a nice
and warm and hot and come and just wipe my
face with it before Man, it's awesome. So she just
wipe my face he's down, you know, before we go
to sleep. And it's so tough to do all the time.
Sometimes she might forget, but she does that and that's
so appreciative. But even when we're not feeling good about

(25:12):
each other, you do those kindnesses, You do those things.
Those are the things that you do when you are
feeling good about each other. Just try push through your
negativity and do those things when you're not feeling about
good about each other, and you'll see the chemistry start
to return. It'll it'll start to return because your brain
always leads your heart.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Follows, Yeah, it's funny sometimes if we've had a tense
day and we hold hands a lot. But sometimes if
we're not even talking that much. Like sometimes when we
do that, you'll just squeeze my hand and like we
don't even have to say anything. It's just that nonverbal
communications like okay, all right, we're gonna we're gonna be okay,
you know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
We do that all the time too. My wife, she's
standing here now, put your hand. She's laughing.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
She's waiting to smack you and case you in case
you speak out a turn about this marriage.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
You know. But yeah, but I I love I love marriage.
I love marriage even when it's bad. It's it's not terrible.
You know, when you're with the person that you know
has your back. I tell for quite often that it's like,

(26:27):
you know, your your mate is there two to be
a witness to your life. You know, because this is
the person who sees all the insignificant things that no
one else sees. He or she. They they care about
things that no one else would ever care about. You know,
you you change a habit, you do something different. You know,

(26:49):
you you have some insignificant concern that nobody gives up
fart about excuse me. But what happens is that she cares.
You know, he pays a Oh you've changed your hair.
Oh this is different. Oh that's different. All that stuff
is someone being a witness to your existence, a witness

(27:10):
that you matter, and that there's none better than that.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
Pastic how I helped folks with I think something so key.
When you were talking about how communication was so important.
You said, yes, communication, But then in the next word
or two you said vulnerability. You said you have to
be vulnerable in the midst of that communication. And I
think that is probably a place where people do struggle.
Everybody listening has had some argument in a relationship and

(27:37):
that moment has come up in communication and you're not
willing to be vulnerable. Sometimes it's ego and say, well,
you're not going to be vulnerable. I'm not going to
be hurt by putting myself out there. Will you help
folks for a moment with that part? How do you
make sure you train yourself to be vulnerable even if
you might not be getting that in return immediately, and

(27:58):
you don't feel safe with the person necessarily emotionally at least,
And I.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
Think that's it. I think you just you just made
you just said a key word, they're safe. I think
that vulnerability requires understanding and the idea of of a
wife being vulnerable to her husband, or a husband being
vulnerable to is his wife. It's it's easier to be

(28:23):
that way when you feel like that person understands you,
and that word understands means that you actually stand under you,
actually are there. You're there as a soft place for
that person to land. You know you're standing under you
understand me. And so it's like, you know, if if
if I'm being vulnerable to you, and if I'm giving
you something personal about me or I'm saying something to you,

(28:46):
I need to know that you're standing under me and
you're making my words my life. Who all that I am?
You're giving me that safe place to land. And I
think that's so tough for people. So I understand when
people are not vulnerable. I understand when they when they
when they when they recoil, when they pull back. Who
wants to expose himself to someone who's going to hurt them.

(29:07):
We have an exercise that we give couples called naked Moments,
and you know you can do without what you will
in your mind. But it's called naked need to give
and naked moments is sort of a catchphrase that that
we use whenever you need to have a completely open,

(29:27):
honest and vulnerable conversation. And even after we'ven married all
these years, we still do this. We say, you know,
I need a naked moment. And when you say that,
a person's you know it's it's almost like a safe word,
and you know the light should go on. It means
you put down your phone, you get away from the TV,
you get away from anything distracting, and you lock in
and listen to your partner. Now you're going to listen

(29:50):
without distraction. You're going to listen not for reasons to retort.
You're not listening for rebuttal You're listening for understanding because
it is an incredibly important moment. You have an opportunity
for this person to reveal themselves to you. Now, in
revealing yourself to a person, you have to understand that

(30:11):
the listener or the receiver, the ones who's hearing this,
that the one who's giving it, the sharer, that persons
giving you a weapon. And it's because all of a sudden,
if I'm telling you about me, and I'm telling you
about how I feel. All my nerves are exposed. I'm here,
I'm open, I've ripped open everything. I'm right here in
front of you, and I'm giving you everything. That is
a powerful weapon for the listener to have, and you

(30:33):
can either use that weapon to hurt him or hurt
her with it, or you can use that weapon to
protect them. And the more you use that weapon to protect,
the easier it will become for that person to be
vulnerable in the future. So it takes time and consistency.
If you want your mate to be vulnerable with you,
you have to understand them. You have to give them

(30:55):
a soft place to land over a period of time
where they become comfortable. And it's not a matter of
you know people, I mean I this generation just annoys
me sometimes because it's like when a guy is doing that,
they're calling him a simp or or or I don't know,
if you haven't heard that term before, it's okay, well

(31:18):
wait what is that?

Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, we've heard this, We've had our daughters tell us this,
and I've already forgotten what it is. But yes he's amp, Yes.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
He's too sensitive or he's you know, he's too accommodating
or whatepens bs, you know he's being a man. It
takes as much of a it takes as much maturity
and as much strength to be vulnerable as as it
does to be you know, a rock. You know, I
think it takes more strength to let your guards now absolutely.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
What would you say the biggest mistake couples.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
Make the biggest wow or you.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Can list a couple, because you know what people do
that actually ends up undermining their relationship.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
I would say the first thing becomes to mind is
the inability to accept change and a misunderstanding of the
place of change in your relationship. One thing I heard
couples say quite often is you're not the person I'm married,
You're not the same. My answer to that is dull,
I mean, you know who is you know? I mean,

(32:36):
who is the same person today as they were a
year ago?

Speaker 1 (32:41):
No one is.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
So I think if people understand that change is not
a bad thing, one of the most I'm sort of
an iconoclass I kind of go against cherished beliefs, and
so it's when someone says, you know, a lot of
these sayings that are out there to me. Are we
just say them and we don't really get it. Like,
for instance, whatever it took to get them is what

(33:03):
it takes to keep them. That's BS. I don't believe it. No,
I mean, what it took to get them is what
it took together. What it takes to keep them is
much more than what it took together.

Speaker 6 (33:14):
That is so true, because that person is changing, and
with every change is a new opportunity for you to
learn and adapt.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
Okay, So I believe that changing and not knowing the
place of change in your relationship. I look at change
as a beautiful opportunity to learn something new about your spouse.
That's what changes if you've changed. If you're not, I mean,
there are things that I didn't like when we got
married that I really like now. Things that I did
like when I get married. We got married and I
don't like now. There's a chance for her to learn

(33:47):
about me.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Okay, you got to tell us what those things are.
I mean, we already got the wipeing of with the towel,
So tell me, really, what what is it that you
like now that you didn't like when you first got together?
And what was it thing you don't like now? They did,
like when you first got.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
Together and you just put my stuff all in the street.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Hey man, Well, one thing.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
I guess you know. One thing. The things that I
most of the things that I like now that I
didn't like, I like because my wife has influenced me. Okay,
there's some things I didn't like to eat. I never
I mean like avocados. Not. Let me be as simple
as that.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
The little, the mushy.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
Then what the heck.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Has he hates them?

Speaker 3 (34:33):
With my man?

Speaker 1 (34:35):
You get it, dude, I can't have him in the house.
I don't want to see him.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Is a texture issue.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
It's a texture thing, absolutely, That's what I tell him.
It's a texture thing.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
I found. My tribe found avocados and Okra.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
I don't understand.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Okay, I am from orc, Arkansas, so Okra is on
my list of things. We were here for a second
for a second.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
Vocados, But I I have but because of I mean,
she's trudded daddy, and avocados are just her things. She
loves avocados, and uh, you know, I tried one and
she keeps, you know, shoving them down in front of me.
So so after a while, I say, you know what, Okay,
maybe it's not so bad, and then you're not. I
like them, but it's and it's a it's a small

(35:21):
example just to show you that she has influenced me
and and and that that that micro micro influence, you know,
is you can turn to a macro thing. You know.
It's like the things that I used to like that
I don't like. I mean, I, oh god, there's so many.

(35:43):
She just whispered to me, sarcasm. WHOA I used to
be very sarcastic. I thought it was fun. Oh wow,
the older I got. I don't care. I don't want
to hear it. I mean, I just want to be
straight with me, you know, just don't just don't bring
me sarcasms. I believe I look at sarcasm as a
bailed insult, you know, it's like, really, dude, come on.

(36:07):
So so those are some of the things. But anyway,
that's that's going to be all over the media.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
What would be What would our things be? What is
something you didn't like when we first started dating that
you do like now or something or in the opposite.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Way, well, something as simple as like salmon tartar or
you know, like you've introduced me. So a lot of
seafood that I wouldn't have tried before. I yes, And
I've enjoyed watching sports on a very extreme level that
I never really bothered to even pay attention to before.

(36:44):
So I definitely watched a lot of basketball that I
wouldn't have watched. I have always liked college football, but
so there was some precedent to it. I I enjoy
now getting up earlier than I used to because if
I don't get up early, I miss the best part
of the day with TJ. Because that is when he

(37:05):
is at his brightest and I would almost argue most fun.
And so if I don't get up early, I miss
the best part of TJ.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
Sure that pastor cal Yeah, four thirty am I am
the life of the party, brother, Oh my god, Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
It really is. And you know, I'm not like a
late sleeper, but I'm more like six thirty seven. And
so if I'm left to my own devices, So now,
like this morning is not a good example, but a
lot of mornings now I'll get up significantly before I
would have, and I've enjoyed it, and it actually gets
your day started. So I would say those things, how
about you?

Speaker 1 (37:42):
I didn't before we started dating. I didn't like yacht rock.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
You still don't.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
I still don't. Okay, bad example.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Food.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
I'm trying to think of something though, And I don't
know if this is what you were talking about as well,
pastor cal But there are some things that's one thing,
food or interests. But what do you find sometimes the
things about your mate You've talked about the sarcasm, But
I was trying to think of something that you did
that I used to like that I don't like anymore,

(38:14):
or something you did that that kind of a thing.
I actually can't think of anything there necessarily, but I'm
sure there's something I'll keep thinking. Pasical to some of
the answers.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
That was good. I'm glad you didn't that was good.

Speaker 7 (38:26):
Yeah, smart man doesal the things you kind of describe
seemed to make an argument for why married at first
sight can work and why it absolutely can't work.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
Meaning you put people there, if you're committed to this relationship,
you're committed to it and you can make it work.
But then on the other side of that, you talked
about vulnerability, and it's hard to have that with someone
that you just met. After after a week, two weeks,
three weeks. So how do you see the marrit at
first sight ex compare to how we normally go about

(39:02):
dating and relationships in marriage.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
Most of the people, most of the people who we
I would like to say all, but I can't because
sometimes there are a lot of Charlatan's there who you know,
who trick us. But most of the people who we
who we choose to be married at first sight, they
are ready for the commitment. They they they And one

(39:25):
question I always ask them is were you considering marriage
before you knew we were auditioning for the show? You know,
is this something that's been on your mind or did
you just say, hey, I can do that, okay great?
And the ones who say, well, you know what, I've
been thinking about it, I'm like, nope, you're out of here. No,
I need to know. I need to have people who

(39:46):
have already decided that they want to be married. Now,
all that being said, back your question as far as
people who are vulnerable, I think that there are people
who are already in that mindset, so it's a little
easier for them to accept the idea of marriage. And
then the idea of marrying a stranger is a strange idea. Also,

(40:12):
but if you knew what goes on behind the scenes
and how we prep these people and how we vet
them before they get to the show. I mean, over
the three months that we're vetting them before they're even chosen,
we've learned so much about them, and they've learned so
much about the process. They've learned so much about themselves

(40:33):
that they become confident in what we're doing. And so
then it's a matter of them just once they make
the decision. We have so many people. I'm trying not
to give spoilers for any upcoming seasons because that's what's
in my mind most recently got some older seasons. But
they're in a mindset to be vulnerable, and they're in

(40:55):
a mindset to be committed, you know. So it's if
they were just doing this for fun, then there would
be a greater commitment issue. But the reason we have
twelve I think it's now twelve couples that are still together,
twelve fourteen couples that are still together, and roughly about
thirteen fourteen babies, you know, I mean, it says a lot,

(41:19):
you know that people are really they're really ready and
willing to be committed and they're ready and willing to
be vulnerable. And of course, you know, I don't think
there's any other platform where you're going to have people
who are just constantly in your face, helping you through
your situation, counseling you. Whenever you have a problem, you

(41:39):
can call them because we're there more than more than
what you see on TV. We're there sometimes I'm up
to two am talking to people, you know, helping them
in their relationships. It's quite extensive.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
Well, we've watched two full seasons and we're on another
one now. We admitted to you we like watching the
ones with our commercials, so we have been finding those
seasons and you know you mentioned I think twelve or
fourteen are still together. I believe the show's success rate
is just under twenty percent, you know, and for a

(42:12):
TV show, I can say, when we're watching the show,
it all seems very genuine. Like you to your point,
these couples do seem like this is something they really
want and are fighting for and are struggling with in
front of everyone, which can't be easy. But this past
season see season seventeen, has gotten a lot of publicity
for quite the opposite that it seemed as though you

(42:33):
mentioned Charlatan's, there were some of those that in that cast,
people who weren't in it for the right reasons, Like yeah,
I mean the reunion show. We started to watch some
of it today and it didn't feel like any other
season that we've seen at least have married at first sight.
So lessons learned from season seventeen as you all now
in Barkin season eighteen or we're about to. I guess

(42:54):
you guys have already shot it, right, but we haven't.
We haven't seen it yet. It has been released yet.
What lessons did you all learn? And I just want
to get your overall impressions of what happened at season seventeen.

Speaker 3 (43:05):
Season seventeen, And you know, I normally tried to be
as objective as possible, but Season seventeen will go down
in history, my personal marreative first sight history, as being
the most difficult season that I've ever ever experienced since
being a part of this show. I think that what

(43:27):
happened was that you know, a lot of them, a
lot of people when they got together, it only takes
sometimes it only takes a couple people to sort of
infect the entire group. And I think that's what happened.
I'm not going to call any names, but there were

(43:47):
some people who came in and concocted this insane idea
that we want to look good on camera. And they
were so convinced and so successful in their approach that
they convinced the rest of them to do the same.
And so they decided that they are going to try

(44:07):
and do the process. Now, you guys, you've been in TV,
you understand the deal. Cameras are always on. I mean,
you can't get rid of cameras. And they're all over
the house. They're in the they're in the car, they're everywhere.
The only place we don't go is a bathroom and

(44:27):
in the bedroom after you shut the door, that's it.
Outside of that, you know, you're always on camera. So
we picked up on it very quickly, and we warned
them early on, please be sincere because the cameras are watching.
But for some reason, sometimes I just call it hubris.
People think that they can outwit the cameras and outwit

(44:51):
a process that's been going on for seventeen seasons. And
you have a better idea. You think that you can
just just sneak in and and do the whole thing
so that we want to look better and anytime someone
tried to do that, they always end up looking like buffoons.
And there you have Season.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
Seventeen, pastor Kel, do you ever have to in that
three month process of vetting people? I mean, this is
still you said, we're TV folks cameras around. We also
understand that you can't have boring folks on TV. I'm

(45:28):
not this is not like a show of Real Housewives
type of thing where that needs to be drama type thing.
But you all have to or how do you give
some consideration to well, we still got to have interesting
folks who might have interesting dynamics. That plays into it
a little bit, doesn't it.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
Absolutely, Absolutely we want people. We want people who are interesting. However,
that's a production thing when it comes to me, Doctor
Pepper and Doctor Peel, who's now on when it comes
to us, And I've said this on camera, I think
they keep editing it out, but this on camera, we
don't care about the cameras. That's not my focus. I'm

(46:05):
not here for the cameras. I'm not here for the show.
I'm not I'm here for the marriage. And I tell
them quite often my main concern is that you stay
married and that you do the things that are necessary
and listen to us and do those things are necessary
to make a marriage successful. So one thing that I
do know, though, is that you know, and we all

(46:27):
we've all been married here, we all are married. Well,
whatever we are.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
You gave it away. We told you that in confidence,
pastor cow We're trying to figure it out.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
But one thing that you do know about marriage is
that if you just turn the cameras on on any
marriage and leave them on, you're going to get every
genre of theater. You're going to get comedy, You're going
to get drama, you're going to get spins. You know,
you're going to get everything.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Uh, and so that you forgot horror, I know, I was.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
Trying to leave that out. You want to get it.
You gotta get it's gonna be a thriller as well.
But you know when you so, that's what we do normally,
We just leave the cameras on and they create their
own drama. They create their own you're just being married.
If someone turned the camera on in our family, you know,
and just saw us for you know, a couple of days,

(47:28):
come on, it would be hilarious and sad and scary.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
You know all that, Master, Cal You've been doing this
since season four, have I'm sure there have been, But
can you think of a couple or two that really
disappointed you because you thought they could make it. They
should have tried harder, they could have actually made it
further than they did.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
Yeah, yeah, wow, that is a good one. Yeah, I do.
And I'm trying to remember some of the names. There
was a couple in Dallas. I can't even remember the
names because for some reason, I don't remember the ones
who succeed. But there was a couple in Dallas that
I really thought could have made it. He was older

(48:15):
and she was. He was like thirty nine and she
was like thirty eight. And I really wanted them to succeed.
I thought that they could have, but they just showed it.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
He just chose not to.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
Even in this last season in Denver with Michael and
his wife Chloe Chloe, Oh my god, there's my daughter's day.
Oh what's wrong with me? Mike Chloe? Even with them,
we thought for sure they were going to make it.

(48:46):
Chloe was such a class act, I mean, such an
incredible person, and we believe that Michael. I think he's
a good guy too, but I think that just the
whole tension of the show and all the stress of
the show, I think he made a bad decision and
staying with that season, I think that Lauren and Orian

(49:08):
they could have made I think they would have They
actually could have made it. He made some very immature
decisions early on, and I'd go back season after season
after season and show you people who had all the potential,
but they they allowed their single thinking to influence their
married life.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Past the count. Do you take it personally? Do you
do you ever when people don't work out? Because in
two ways, One it's not good for the show and
whatnot for its its track record, but also personally that
you set someone up with an individual that didn't work
out or they didn't like you. Does that bother you
when there's a miss and you take it personally?

Speaker 3 (49:46):
It does it bothers me? It's It's like, look, when
you put all especially, it's not just the matching, it's
it's all the season that I've spent time with you know,
these people and just talking to them like Miles and
care and you know who. I think there are still
great people, you know, but they're no longer together. And
you know, I think about all the time that I've spent,

(50:08):
you know, late at night, you know, talking to couples,
and and you decide to to just quit, you know,
because of something. And I think I think that, you know,
if they would have persisted, and not just them, but
any a lot of the other couples, that they would
have persisted, that they would have seen, you know, the
brighter side of their relationship. So in the moment, I'm

(50:30):
gonna be very frank with you though, But in the moment, yeah,
it does bother me. But then I go home and
I sleep.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Get down with that towel, no worries at all.

Speaker 4 (50:41):
Brother, you know, I do like to I go home
and I sleep well because look, at the end of
the day, I don't feel as though I've done anyone
of disservice.

Speaker 3 (50:53):
They came there, We didn't we didn't draft them. They
came there because they wanted to be married. We provided
them every opportunity to be married, in every opportunity to succeed,
and they threw it away. So at that point I
feel bad about it, but it's not lasting.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Do you think when when these types or any relationship
ends truly. Do you think oftentimes it does boil down
to ego?

Speaker 3 (51:14):
Okay, yes it does. It was a strange phenomenon with
TV with this show that I think sometimes people who
may not be able to find though one or the
right person, all of a sudden they get married at
first sight. These are for the ones who failed, All

(51:34):
of a sudden, they get married at first sight, and
now they're like, wait a minute, I'm on TV. Hey,
you know other people are going to see me. Wow,
maybe I can get somebody now, So I'm going to
say no, I decision day and.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
Oh because now my options are much bigger and greater.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
But here's what they don't realize. Yes, people do know you. Yes,
social media, you will increase your social media following absolutely,
But here's what you don't know. You don't realize is
that your entire married life is on TV and people
can see if you were creep, they can see if

(52:13):
you were angry, they can see if you were whatever.
They see all that. So that may not bode well
for you. If you don't treat your husband right, if
you don't treat your wife right, and now you're trying
to date someone, all they have to do is go
to Netflix and oh I don't want her.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
If that's your tryout, you're probably not going to get anybody.
Go U. I have a question here from a very loyal,
loyal viewer of Married at First Sight, and it goes
it says you say marriage ain't for punks. So if
that's the case, would you say that dating is for punks?

(52:51):
That comes to us and reviewer by the name of
Devon Franklin. By the way, are you here. I'm texting
with Devon right now. He's been one of my boys
tho years and know he's joining you.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
I need to catch up with him. I never talked
to Devon in a minute, but he.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Wanted to ask you that question.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
You know what dating, No, dating ain't for punks either. Dating,
Oh my god, it's tough. But uh, dating with a
purpose ain't for punks. You know, Dating without an intentional
goal is definitely, you know, for punks. But if you
if you're if you're dating with intention and you know,

(53:29):
like Devon, you know you know who who's just that's
just an awesome dude. But like you know, if someone
in as we get older and you're single and you're dating,
most people in that category. You know you're dating with
an intention. You know you're not just out trying to
netflix and chill. You want something serious and so that
takes a lot of grip, a lot of resolve. And

(53:52):
uh so, yeah, dating with intention ain't for punks, but
just dating to just mash and grab that smashing.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
Well, I am. I only have two of the small
things that I want you to chime in because people
have different opinions about it. Your opinion on this, just
quickly going to bed mad is that people say you
shouldn't do it.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
What do you think? I don't think you should go
to bed angry. I think I think it's okay to
excuse me. I think it's okay to go to bed
without the issue resolved. And there's a difference. Going to
bed angry means that I'm I'm going to I'm going
to carry that that weight, I'm going to carry that
pain with me to sleep. First of all, you're not

(54:37):
going to sleep. Well, you know it doesn't very seldom happen.
But I think that you can resolve an issue and say,
you know what, we don't agree on this, but what
we're going to do, let's table it and we'll talk
about it tomorrow. At least you've made a connection with
your partner and you know that this that that we're okay,
even though the issue is not resolved. We're good even

(55:00):
the issue is not resolved, and we can read, we
can read, you know, just just reapproach it on.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
The next day.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
It goes to what I say about conflict resolution, that
the problem is not the problem, or rather, the person
is not the problem. The problem is. And so when
you look at an issue that you're having between two people,
look at that thing, objectify, put it on a shelf,
and say, look, that is the problem. That is the
thing that's attacking our relationship. I'm not attaching it to you.

(55:26):
It's not attached to me. That is the problem. So
in the morning, we're going to talk about that. As
far as you're concerned, we're in this together, we love
each other, we're going to be okay, we're going to
go to bed. It's not resolved. We're going to go
to bed, and in the morning we're going to talk
about that. We're not going to attach it to us.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
And seven year itch, is that a real thing?

Speaker 3 (55:46):
I think no, No, that's a movie. Back in the
fifties or something. No, that's not a real thing. I think.
I think there are some people out there to say that.
After a certain amount of years, you start to question.
But some people itch after sick months. You know, some
people hit all the time. You know they need to
get some some cream or something to get rid of that. Yeah,

(56:08):
some people just itch.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Man, I don't think.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
I think it's something we've been put in our minds.
You know, they have to your seven get over your
seven years. Our seven years went, seventh year went by
without a hitch. I don't even remember it specifically.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
Funny Yeah, and Patrick, I just have a few and
then I think we'll be good. But I'm curious to
play off of what you kind of said about not
going to bed angry when you are feeling anger towards
each other? Are there things you can say? Are there
things you can do that will that will dissipate that anger?

(56:43):
Or is it better to say nothing if you don't
have something nice to say, say nothing at all. I'm
curious what you do in those moments where it is
intense and you do feel overwhelmed with anger and emotion.
Do you have things you can say or do?

Speaker 3 (56:58):
Absolutely? Absolutely first, I'll understand where the enemy is. Understand
where the enemy is. The enemy is the issue. And
so I tell couples to say all the time, tell
your partner when you're feeling that, first of all, I
am not your enemy. I'm not your enemy. I'm on
your side. That when you have that kind of anchor,
and I believe that you don't have to. If I'm

(57:20):
angry at my wife about something, I don't have to
wait for her to initiate reconciliation. I can easily initiate it.
Even if it's something that she did to me, I
can still initiate reconciliation. And I can start that by saying,
you know what. Yeah, I mean in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, fine,

(57:43):
you know this pissed me off. This really got me
going here, you know what. But here's what I'm going
to say, honey. You know, I know I'm not feeling
good now, but I do recognize that you're not my enemy.
You are not my enemy. I know we're on the
same side, and so we're going to deal with this.
Because the moment you reconnect with your partner by letting

(58:03):
them know that you're not mad at.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
Them, what if you are mad at them though it's.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
Okay, And that's what I mean by placing, by placing
that your understanding the enemy.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
You're mad at them, but they Yeah, you said, wow,
you setting off balloons on your computer? There it went
right along with your answer. I love that. That was perfect.
I'm like, arcle, did I do that?

Speaker 3 (58:36):
But no, But even even if I am upset at
what you did, I'm actually angry at what you did. Okay,
I have to separate the what you did from the
who you are. You're questioning it.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
No, it's just so difficult to do. What you said
makes perfect sense. But Mary Jane, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's it's very difficult. But you see, but this is
the challenge, this is the challenge in marriage and why
and why so many of us, you know, find it
difficult and you know, and we go through multiple marriages

(59:15):
because we don't learn these lessons that anything that's worth
having is worth fighting for, it's worth pushing through your
your your negative feelings. I look at it like this.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
I've worked many jobs that I didn't like, many of
them that I had to roll out to pull myself
out of bed in the morning, and oh my god,
I'll have to go to this fleet. I hate these
people that oh my job, but I do it. Why
because I know that if I don't go, I'm not
going to get paid. I'm not going. You know, my

(59:46):
life depends on this. I have a family. I have
to take care of this. But we don't think of
marriage that way the moment. We don't like them in
our marriage. Something in our marriage we are very quick
to say, you know what, I'm not going to go
into work today. I'm not you know, But why do
we have so much more commitment to the things that
don't affect our life or the things that are not
as important as our relationship. But we don't have the

(01:00:07):
commitment for our relationship?

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
All right? And then quickly, lastly, I want to ask,
how do you find a way to forgive? And when
I say like, forgive and forget, like not to hold
the grudge, not to breed resentment, do you have tips
for that?

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
Absolutely? First of all, there's no such thing as forgiving
and forgetting.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
It's not possible.

Speaker 3 (01:00:31):
As humans, everything that's happened in our lives, we remember everything.
I mean, doctors can even open up your skull and
touch certain parts of your brain and you can remember
things from your childhood, you know, so it's almost impossible
to forget. So what we're talking about is forgiving and coping,
not forgiving and forgetting, Okay, And I think that that's

(01:00:52):
a that's a big challenge here because when we talk
about forgiving, when I forgive you, what I'm saying is
I'm showing you, I'm offering you grace, I'm offering you
a reprieve. I'm releasing my judgment over you. Okay, I'm
not going to I'm not going to stand over you
and lord over you. Now, I'll be The forgiveness is

(01:01:12):
necessary in every circumstance. It's always necessary. But if you
cannot handle the memory of what that of what happened,
if you cannot handle that thing, you're not going to
forget it. But if you can't turn that trunk into
a carrying case, if you can't do that, then you
have to decide whether you're going to forgive and stay

(01:01:34):
or forgiven leave. But forgiveness is not an option that
has to happen because that's not for the person who offended.
That's for you. Forgiveness is for you. Forgiveness cleanses you.
Forgiveness releases the weight from you. Forgiveness lets you know
that you can move on. It's not about them now.
If I can forgive you and and and and look

(01:01:55):
at everything that you've done and say, you know what,
I forgive you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
And this is going to be tough, but we can
work through it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
We can work through it. I'm going to work on
my memories of it. But I need you to help me.
I need you to be patient. If I have to
bring it up again, if we have to talk about it,
you got to be patient with me. If it takes
six months, if it takes a year, you have to
be patient. And if you're not willing to do that,
then we have to make some decisions because I'm going
to forgive you irrespective. Will I forgive and stay or

(01:02:24):
will I forgive and leave?

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Very cool. We have so enjoyed this conversation. We were
looking forward to it for so long. We will keep watching,
also looking forward to season eighteen of Married at First Sight.
But just I really, as much as it is entertaining,
it really has been educational for us. So thank you
for being vulnerable yourself, not only on this podcast but

(01:02:46):
on the show It matters.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
Oh absolutely, thank you so much. I do want to
share with you that we have that, my wife and
I we do have something that's so so cool because
we get so many requests for counseling and what have
you that we can't talk to everybody. So we have
an app that's going to becoming I'll call a marriage
Ain't for pumps Go figure. So then the app will

(01:03:12):
be coming out. We're doing a soft launch in by
the end of this month. It will be in beta form,
but then we're going to be looking at a larger
launch to the public very very shortly after that. And
I'm here to tell you it's a relationship app for
married people, and it's one app with three applications. Is
for married people, it's going to have resources, it's going

(01:03:35):
to have marriage tips, about parenting, about a conflict resolution,
you name it, you're going to be able to find
it in that app. And also for dating people, there's
a pre married section in it for people who are
dating and want to be married, and then for marriage
minded people, people who are single and looking for their
forever partner, and so there will be a matchmaking component

(01:03:56):
in that. So it's one app with three different applications.
Be awesome so keep your eye and keep on the
lookout for that. And marriage ain't for pumps dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
So you're you're launching a dating app? Did I hear
that correctly? You kidding?

Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
You know what? You know what, it's not app hard,
it's a pre marriage.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
And a marriage for fifteen ninety nine. We will have
somebody for you by the summer. We can't fansical. I
love you, brother. We absolutely have leaned on you in
a lot of ways. When we were kind of locked down,
we were watching a lot of TV and we picked
up your show and it really has been cool to
watch you. Also, congrats on all the success. Our best

(01:04:40):
to the entire staff over there, and please give your
wife our best as well. Thank her for hanging out
with us here as well.

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
All Right, see you guys. My pleasure was a lot
of fun. Hope to see you again.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
You will, brother, Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
Hey, we'd love to hear what you think about this
at Amy and TJ podcast on Instagram. Thanks for being
with us everyone. Hope you learned something.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
Vampation bad Buations, the