October 10, 2025 • 26 mins
We have all heard the relationship advice: “Never go to bed angry.” Amy and T.J. discuss a new theory emerging that insists it’s not just ok to go to bed upset with your partner, it’s actually advisable. Did you know about the H.A.L.T. concept used by therapists? It’s a step by step process that allows you to determine when you should avoid any serious discussion with your partner… and if you adhere to it, you will never fight at night again!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey there, folks, it is Friday, October tenth, and are
you heading to bed angry tonight? Well knock your self out,
welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. You're not
supposed to. We have been. Doesn't everybody know that's a
hard fast rule. You're not supposed to go to bed
angry when you're in a relationship.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I have heard that for all of my life, and
I have never been able to actually put that into
practice as much as I would have liked to, and
sometimes I didn't want to, And so it's actually refreshing
to hear that I don't have to. Why do we
think we have to? Who says that's the way it
has to be?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
No matter what shouldn't be the goal?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I think that would be awesome. But I think anytime
you're told you should do something or you need to
feel a certain way, I guess actions are different than feelings.
So maybe you do something even if you don't feel it.
But that also feels disingenuous, and I don't know how.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I've struggled with this concept for most of my life,
and we.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Are talking about it now. Look, this conversation comes up
every now and again out there and whatever circles. But
this week we got this recently from the Associated Press
who kind of put it back out there because they
were in conversation with a therapist who said, absolutely, knock
yourself out, go to bed angry. You might be doing
(01:27):
more harm than good trying to stay up and resolve something.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Look and to that point, that has been something that
I have learned to amend truly in my relationship with you,
because in the morning things look different they just do
at night. You're exhausted, you're tired. Who knows what kind
of day you've had. You're bringing all of that into
(01:52):
your feelings into an argument that might not have a
place actually that you're now inflating the situation because you
were dealing with other stressors throughout your day. So I
do think in the morning you have a clearer head,
better perspective, and you're refreshed, and that's a better place
to begin having a conversation about something you disagree about
(02:15):
versus a fight that takes place late at night. I think,
don't I don't know. It feels like a lot of
arguments happen at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Oh, at the end of the day, when you're when
you're tired, lost it, when you just went all through
that hell at the office, when you just want to
go to bed after you've had that after work drink.
What do you mean this conversation isn't going well. Yes,
you're at your absolute worst physical spot and mental spot
at the end of the day, and you're getting hit
(02:45):
with the heaviest stuff in conversation. And we're being told
everybody knows this road, it's just accepted. It's the rule.
Don't go to bed angry.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Here's the reason why I think a lot of people
subscribe to this just from a you know, I don't know,
but we'll get into the origins of it. And that's
fascinating in and of itself, actually, But I do think
you're telling yourself.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I'm not going to be able to sleep.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I'm going to toss in turn, I'm going to be ruminating,
like I'm going to be like going over everything in
my head, and I'm going to lose an entire night's
worth of rest because I haven't resolved this. So resolving
it will allow me to sleep better. But I just
I honestly am thinking back in my life, honestly over
a fight that happened near bedtime or continued through where
(03:33):
you should go to bed. I can't think of an
instance where it was like, kumbai ya, everything's figured out,
we're all happy, and we can all sleep peacefully. It
doesn't usually get resolved in some peaceful, satisfactory way when
you're already that upset, but you are.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Also someone, at least in my experience with you don't
know who this was before you're sleeping next to and
doing this fighting with. My point my twice divorce love
is that we have found some way and we have
figured this out to where we do absolutely not go
(04:13):
to bed angry, but we also don't spend much time
during the day angry is the thing. We have found
a way. We haven't mastered. This is something we continue
to work on. But from where we were to where
we are in terms of recognizing, I know you want
stuff resolved, Let's move on and go back to being happy.
(04:35):
Within five minutes, I need a beat, So even us
it's not just a matter of understanding, but we're now
respecting that in the middle of something going on, we
need possibly two very different things from each other, and
in at least respecting each other a little bit, it's
led to some kind of compromise to where we have
(04:57):
figured something out and the fights end before they even start.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
It's true because I now recognize what you need, and
I recognize that when I actually extend that grace to you,
you relax, you're not as upset, and therefore things just
get a little bit better. And I think you recognize
if you just say one kind thing or soften something
(05:26):
just a bit, I relax and then things get better.
I think that's part of understanding your partner's needs and
not just thinking about.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
What you need and what you want.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
And I think oftentimes I had been in that place
in my head where all I was thinking about was
being right or justifying how I felt, or proving that
the other person was wrong. That doesn't ever work, ever, ever,
for anyone. So if you start thinking about what it
is your partner needs, and that's really hard to do
(05:55):
when you're pissed, but if you can really think about that,
it dates things so quickly that even if it's unresolved,
and even if there still might be a little bit
of underlying tension that you can deal with in the
morning in a very calm, respectful way. Just bringing down
the tension is enough or preventing the fight from starting.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Okay, so you said bringing down the tension. That's very
very important to this conversation and what therapists are saying,
at least to one the ap talk to bringing down
the temperature. That says a lot about your relationship. If
you're able to look at each other and understand and respect.
We got a problem right now. This is not a
(06:38):
good time for us to be doing it. We're going
to meet back up and resolve this. If you are
in a respectful if you are in a solid relationship,
that's not a problem because oftentimes people will do that
and then they don't follow up. I'm like, okay, let's
talk about this later, and you don't talk about it later,
and this goes and goes and go. But even in
(07:00):
the heat of the moment, even if you don't resolve it,
at least a good thing to do is to say, hey,
let's revisit this or even this they suggested, you know what,
we're tired right now, but tomorrow, let's do coffee. Let's
take eleven o'clock, I'll meet you blah blah blah and
talk instet a plan for doing it. That's intentional, that's.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Mature, agreed, And I think a lot of times there
is so much of the anger and the ego that
comes into this comes into play. Is this fear right?
So if you can at least just say I love you.
We don't agree on this, we can talk more about it,
but I love you like just and I know this
is the last thing you want to say sometimes when
(07:39):
you're mad at somebody some but just that little bit
of reassurance that we're gonna get through this. This isn't
we got to figure this out. But you know a
lot of people in a moment of anger and frustration
will do the opposite and say I'm done, We're over,
I can't do this anymore. And some people even throw
the D word out, or they're like divorce or their breakup,
(08:01):
or threaten all sorts of things because they're so angry,
because they're actually so afraid that you start going nuclear.
And then the other it's yes, I think all of
us have been there at one point in our lives.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
If you find this out and I found this out
about you, and it's yes, it's hard sometimes because you
do you piss me off, and we're back and forth
and something's happening. I know all you need is your
handheld or and I love you, or a simple something
and it's all gone right.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
But the point is now, when you say I love you,
I look at you with a side eye because I'm like,
is that a placating I love you?
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And I love you? Now it's got to come in
different degrees. I love you.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I know I'll take it and I appreciate it, and
I actually think it Actually it's not manipulative because I
know you do love me. But sometimes I am laughing
because I'm like, I think he's saying that because he
wants to say something else, but he's reminding himself that
he loves.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
And I agree.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I mean, likewise what I have been doing, because I
am somebody who tends to react emotionally, and I know
that about myself.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I've learned that about myself, and.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I instead, if I can just literally take a breath,
take a walk, take a beat, go to the bathroom,
just breathe in and breathe out, and then come back
and say why was I mad?
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Again?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Like sometimes actually, just give yourself ninety seconds, give yourself
three minutes, and you'll actually say, wow, I was I
was coming at that from a place of insecurity or
a place of I was trying to interpret something that
I actually don't know what the meaning was. And so
I've learned that taking a beat is everything. Taking a
(09:45):
breath is everything.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
This So this is I'll pick up on your point
there with what therapists use. Now, this is an actual
tool therapists use when they're counseling couples, the halt. Had
you heard of this before? No, not either, but the
halt theory, Yes, H A L T. When you are
any of these things, you should avoid a fight. You
(10:10):
should avoid a serious discussion when you're what robes and
it's halt. It's very easy to remember, isn't it ridiculous? Like, well,
obviously remember this.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
I'm laughing because this is so Yes, it's basic, and
it should be self. It should be something you like.
Self evident is the word I was looking for. Yes,
thank you, but it speaks to me.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So if you are h hungry, a angry, l lonely,
or t tired, you should avoid serious conversations. And you
know what, That sounds obvious, But I go back and
think about the times where I'm not proud of what
I said, or proud of how I acted or reacted.
(10:56):
I was one of those four things or all of
them combined. Yah, And on a so instant, I actually
would love statistics on this. How many fights happen on
Friday night? I bet you a lot of fights happen
on Friday night because you've just had a long week.
A lot of folks we are I would say, lucky
to spend most of our time together, but a lot
(11:17):
of folks that spend a lot of time apart there
might have been built up resentments. They haven't had a
chance to talk about it. Friday night comes, you've stuck together,
and all of a sudden it just comes out. And
you are probably hungry, angry, lonely, and tired at the
end of the week because you've been dealing with a
bunch of shit on your own. You're pissed about it,
you're exhausted from the week, and you probably haven't eaten.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Let's talk about it.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Let's have a conversation about how our week went together,
where we have some bones to pick with one another.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Last thing you want, But it is fascinating rope. Everybody
understands this concept. Okay, understand that it's whatever rule, for
whatever reason that's been given to us. The upsides, though
you're talking about it earlier, some people you know you
feel better. I can't sleep with this on my heart
on my brain and they need something resolved. Does that
(12:09):
make sense?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
And I think that the intention is a good one,
but it doesn't ever usually end with the result you
were hoping for. I mean, sometimes it can be, and
kudos to people who can pull that off. But I
do feel like if the reason for the timing is
so I can actually sleep better tonight, it might not
end the way you want it to.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Okay, you would appreciate this on that point. About this
is what the therapists say, and it makes sense what
you hear, and everybody in a relationship, my goodness, ask yourself.
This robes. If you're anxious after you get in a
fight with the person.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
You always anxious after I get into a fight.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
But here's this. If you're anxious and they say about
the going this lay, I need to resolve this because
I'm anxious about my relationship. I'm anxious that this thing hasn't.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Yes, I relate to that completely.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
But here's the thing that the therapists are saying you
should ask yourself about your relationship. What are you anxious about? Yeah,
just because you have a challenge, you shouldn't be worried
that the relationship won't be there in the morning. People
in steady and calm and happy and solid relationships and
issue comes up. Okay, we have a problem. I can
(13:22):
sleep on it. I'm going to feel better in the morning.
But you know, when I get up in the morning,
I'm still gonna love him, still gonna love her, and
we're gonna be Okay. We just got this thing. We
got it. It's not the end of the world. And
solid relationships understand that, and you should sleep just fine
at night.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Is the argument correct?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
And I definitely can say that I am, and we
are at that place, but especially in early stages of relationships,
or I think at different phases where different things have happened,
where trust has been in some instances has been tested.
It's just a scary thing. And I look, I think
(14:02):
I can speak to this. If you love someone so much,
you have to have that same love for yourself. If
you don't love yourself as much as you love the
person you're with, you have an imbalance and you are
going to have to investigate why you feel so needy
or anxious or concerned. It might be the relationship itself,
(14:23):
it might be the person you're with. But I think
sometimes it's important to take those feelings and use them
for self reflection and self examination and ask yourself, why
do I feel so needy? What is it that I
think this person should be doing for me or to
make me feel better? And I think when you can
(14:43):
make those really important self reflections and truly get curious
about why you feel the way you feel, it will
only help improve your relationship with that other person. And
so I just I think that anytime you're feeling those
strong feelings, it's it's your body telling you to do
(15:04):
some examination.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Well, look, I didn't know where it came from. It
sounded like something that a therapist or a counselor came
up with, this idea you should never go to bed angry.
Well stay here, folks. Maybe you already know it, or
maybe you'll be surprised like us to find out it's origins.
And would you believe, yes, it's in the Bible. All right, folks,
(15:37):
we continue now. I guess breaking down or debunking to
some degree, this rule we all thought was written in stone.
If you're in a relationship, you do not go to
bed angry, or at least that should be the goal.
But certainly a lot of people do go to bed angry,
of course. But the Associated Press we saw a recent
(15:59):
article they just did in which they talk to therapists
who are saying, we need to get rid of this
idea because it's even it's unhealthy sometimes to think that
you need to stay awake until the issue is resolved.
It's midnight, we had a bottle of wine. It's been
a long week. You really want to do this right now, ropes.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
You know, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
That's so in our past, in our rear view mirror.
But early on that did happen, and I did. You
would hear me push.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
No, I want to talk now. No, I want to
talk now. I want to I.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Want to get through this now, And always nothing. I
can't think of one time something got resolved and we didn't.
This didn't happen often, but the few times it did,
I always in the morning, I would wake up going, why.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Why did I insist? Because it's it's so.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Much clearer this morning. I understand so much better now
and I do think. I mean, we haven't had any
like that recently, but it's not to say it couldn't
happen again. But through experience, I really do feel like
and I love getting permission from a therapist to say,
(17:13):
go ahead, go to bed pissed off, but go to
bed pissed off knowing that things will get better in
the morning, knowing that you're gonna be able to have
a better, healthier, more rested conversation in the morning that
will actually be constructive.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Oh that's my go to. Now I can end all
of our fights by just saying, let's talk about it
in the morning. I don't care if it's nine am
when we have in our fights. Let's just talk about
it tomorrow morning. Now, because you have seen it work.
Sometimes in the moment, people just can't control themselves, so
we need to create another moment outside of this one.
(17:51):
So yeah, it's been working. Now, how I thought this
was a good This is a useful tip here. This
is a pro tip that they give for how you
can avoid I guess those moments of unsafety, those moments
where you don't feel like you can't express yourself, those
moments where of anxiety that you, I don't know, are
afraid to go to bed angry. They said, create habits
(18:16):
of communication to where ask your partner every day, how
is your day or how was your morning? Or how
did that thing go? Or even if they go to
the grocery story, do you have any issues getting done
to out? Did the god at the front desk bother you?
Or did that crazy lady at the checkout count I
should give your heart like what you're doing is creating
little habits and openings for your partner to be okay
(18:38):
talking to you when there is any issue, to where
we don't have to blow up at some big issue
that comes. It's constant communication to where you know that
your partner might be a little down, a little sad,
a little annoyed by something you did. It's just regular
check in. So I thought that was a good time.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Well, I think that exactly creates what people want more
than anything in a relationship, which is emotional security. So
if you feel like I can tell my or not
just I can tell my partner, but my partner cares
enough to ask me about what happened, and if I
share something bad that happened, he can be there to
(19:16):
comfort me. Or to at least, you know, give me
some sort of place where I can just vent and
knowing that you've got that person you can say anything
too and share anything with. When you stop sharing things
with your partner, when you stop feeling like you can
tell your partner something that happened to you bad, sad, scary,
(19:39):
that's a red flag. And it's not that it's not
it's it's surmountable. You can overcome it. You just have
to be aware of it.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
And if you are starting to get to that place,
that is a warning sign.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Hey, we need to do better at communicating and making
each other feel secure in each other's problems and issues
and just being willing to resolve them together. I ask you, Yeah,
you're really good about asking me how my day went,
how I'm feeling.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
There was something recently and I made sure I may
I don't know if it was your nails, or there
was something that seemingly was mineor and I made a point, Ah,
I've got to make sure I ask her how that went,
because it seemed like a shitty thing to do. Now,
even ask about your experience where you had just been
it actually registered to me. I remember this the other day.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Well, I think we don't spend a lot of time apart,
but we have a couple of times here and there,
Like it is a nail appointment. It's something as insignificant
as that, where we're hey, wow, I haven't seen you
in an hour.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
How did your nails go?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Texting you in the bathroom? Hey, did you have a
good shampoo?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
No? But those things do matter, and it may seem like, wow,
I need to Even if you have to tell yourself
to do it, it does make a difference.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
It does make someone feel like that person cares about
me and cares about what's happened.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
I don't have to tell you or bother you with
some complaint. I have you gave me permission? You want
to hear how I'm doing, and this is how I'm doing. Yeah,
a lot of people just need permission. And I thought
that was a great, great tip. But I did not
know Robes there are some biblical origins to this rule.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I did not know that either.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Ephesians for twenty six and twenty seven. I'm not sure
which version this one here in particular is, but it says,
and I quote, go ahead and be angry. You do
well to be angry but don't use your anger as
fuel for revenge, and don't stay angry, don't go to
bed angry, don't give the devil that kind of foothold
(21:41):
in your life. In Robes, there are some absolutely Christians
who adhere to the idea, Yes, you should get rid
of that anger in your heart because you leave an
opening for the devil.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
I have a couple thoughts on that.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
First of all, I do think there's something to that,
because if you stay angry, what you start doing in
your mind, everyone be honest with themselves. You've been in
a fight with somebody, the more time that goes by
without you addressing it or without you having a conversation
about it, the more time it's all your side and
you continually and then up the demonization of the person
(22:17):
you're fighting with, where you start really and truly coming
up with things that validate your feeling and so whether
they're true or not. We all have a lens through
which we see things, and if we're seeing things through
a lens of anger, it's us versus them, it's you
versus me, and then you just people even call other
people friends, family members and get them on their side
(22:38):
because you want to feel like you're right and they're wrong.
You're not there to understand, to learn, to grow, to
come together. You're there to prove your right. So the
longer it goes, the more you get in that mindset.
So that makes sense, And yes, if that's the devil's work,
however you want to put it, but it leaves open
the opportunity for you to grow further apart, for you
(22:59):
to feel more justified because you have to your egos
telling you I have to prove there's a real reason
why I feel this way and there to blame instead
of being introspective and saying, huh, I wonder why that
triggered me. I wonder what in my past made me
so sensitive in that moment, Like that's something we very
rarely are willing to ask ourselves after a fight, or
(23:21):
after an argument or after a disagreement. But that is
actually the healthy way to look at it. Yes, someone
could have said something inappropriate, but you also have to
acknowledge that you might be sensitive to something based on
your past experience.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
You're not going to get that clarity Friday night, after
long week's work and you're hungry and you just had
two martinis after work it's just you are not it's
not a good time to do it. But I thought
that was interesting. I did not know it had those leanings.
So and again, we don't give that advice. So I
can tell you what works for us. We can tell
you what therapists sae. But yeah, there are plenty of
(23:56):
folks out there who still adhere to that rule and
certainly say it's a good one to try to at
least aspired to you.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
We had such amazing conversations in our love Story series
last February, and from a licensed therapist who deals with
couples therapies to other folks who just gave their anecdotal
experience of fighting. And I think everyone said they went
to bed angry at one point or the other.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
How many couples did we do, I believe, I think
exactly said.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
But a couple of them had really cute, cool ways
of dealing with it. For instance, I remember one couple
I can't remember who said what said even if they're angry,
just putting their foot on top of the other person's
foot in bed, just let that person know, Yeah, I'm
still pissed.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
At you, but I still love you. You don't have
to say it.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
But just that act of and you and I have
done this holding hands, even if we're not in a
great place, you reaching out me reaching out to you.
It actually warms my heart, It relaxes my body.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
I know that we're going to get through it.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
And it's just a small gesture that has a huge impact.
So just a physical touch in any way, small as
it might be in that bed. You don't have to
actually make up or figure anything out, but that is huge.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
And I just I thought that was cool. And we
watched I.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Think it was merrit at first sight, and we were
laughing because I think this is almost impossible. There was
a therapist who suggested, I think it was doctor Pepper,
that while you're fighting you hold hands. Yes, because it's
like you can disagree and you can be angry, but
by the mere act of touching, you're still saying we're
(25:31):
in this together and I love you without having to
say it, but you can still express your feelings. I
think that's a really really he's.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
She's a pro. That's a difficult exercise. That is a
difficultcause it doesn't allow you space to actually be angry.
I cannot love you after you just hurt me and
you know what, I love you, but I don't can't
be loving the expression of you can love me but
not be loving. Oh oh my goodness again, doctor Pepper,
she's a pro. That's a tall I just wanted to
throw that out there.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
I think that the form of.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
That would be in bed in a quiet moment. Yes,
you just touch, and that is just like it's gonna
be okay, and it almost always is. But I love
that we all have permission to go ahead and be
angry and.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Deal with it in the morning. I like that strategy.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
We hope you do too, And thank you for listening everyone.
I may be robot alongside TJ.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Holmes. We'll talk to you soon.
Hey there, folks, it is Friday, October tenth, and are
you heading to bed angry tonight? Well knock your self out,
welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. You're not
supposed to. We have been. Doesn't everybody know that's a
hard fast rule. You're not supposed to go to bed
angry when you're in a relationship.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I have heard that for all of my life, and
I have never been able to actually put that into
practice as much as I would have liked to, and
sometimes I didn't want to, And so it's actually refreshing
to hear that I don't have to. Why do we
think we have to? Who says that's the way it
has to be?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
No matter what shouldn't be the goal?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I think that would be awesome. But I think anytime
you're told you should do something or you need to
feel a certain way, I guess actions are different than feelings.
So maybe you do something even if you don't feel it.
But that also feels disingenuous, and I don't know how.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I've struggled with this concept for most of my life,
and we.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Are talking about it now. Look, this conversation comes up
every now and again out there and whatever circles. But
this week we got this recently from the Associated Press
who kind of put it back out there because they
were in conversation with a therapist who said, absolutely, knock
yourself out, go to bed angry. You might be doing
(01:27):
more harm than good trying to stay up and resolve something.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Look and to that point, that has been something that
I have learned to amend truly in my relationship with you,
because in the morning things look different they just do
at night. You're exhausted, you're tired. Who knows what kind
of day you've had. You're bringing all of that into
(01:52):
your feelings into an argument that might not have a
place actually that you're now inflating the situation because you
were dealing with other stressors throughout your day. So I
do think in the morning you have a clearer head,
better perspective, and you're refreshed, and that's a better place
to begin having a conversation about something you disagree about
(02:15):
versus a fight that takes place late at night. I think,
don't I don't know. It feels like a lot of
arguments happen at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Oh, at the end of the day, when you're when
you're tired, lost it, when you just went all through
that hell at the office, when you just want to
go to bed after you've had that after work drink.
What do you mean this conversation isn't going well. Yes,
you're at your absolute worst physical spot and mental spot
at the end of the day, and you're getting hit
(02:45):
with the heaviest stuff in conversation. And we're being told
everybody knows this road, it's just accepted. It's the rule.
Don't go to bed angry.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Here's the reason why I think a lot of people
subscribe to this just from a you know, I don't know,
but we'll get into the origins of it. And that's
fascinating in and of itself, actually, But I do think
you're telling yourself.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I'm not going to be able to sleep.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I'm going to toss in turn, I'm going to be ruminating,
like I'm going to be like going over everything in
my head, and I'm going to lose an entire night's
worth of rest because I haven't resolved this. So resolving
it will allow me to sleep better. But I just
I honestly am thinking back in my life, honestly over
a fight that happened near bedtime or continued through where
(03:33):
you should go to bed. I can't think of an
instance where it was like, kumbai ya, everything's figured out,
we're all happy, and we can all sleep peacefully. It
doesn't usually get resolved in some peaceful, satisfactory way when
you're already that upset, but you are.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Also someone, at least in my experience with you don't
know who this was before you're sleeping next to and
doing this fighting with. My point my twice divorce love
is that we have found some way and we have
figured this out to where we do absolutely not go
(04:13):
to bed angry, but we also don't spend much time
during the day angry is the thing. We have found
a way. We haven't mastered. This is something we continue
to work on. But from where we were to where
we are in terms of recognizing, I know you want
stuff resolved, Let's move on and go back to being happy.
(04:35):
Within five minutes, I need a beat, So even us
it's not just a matter of understanding, but we're now
respecting that in the middle of something going on, we
need possibly two very different things from each other, and
in at least respecting each other a little bit, it's
led to some kind of compromise to where we have
(04:57):
figured something out and the fights end before they even start.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
It's true because I now recognize what you need, and
I recognize that when I actually extend that grace to you,
you relax, you're not as upset, and therefore things just
get a little bit better. And I think you recognize
if you just say one kind thing or soften something
(05:26):
just a bit, I relax and then things get better.
I think that's part of understanding your partner's needs and
not just thinking about.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
What you need and what you want.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
And I think oftentimes I had been in that place
in my head where all I was thinking about was
being right or justifying how I felt, or proving that
the other person was wrong. That doesn't ever work, ever, ever,
for anyone. So if you start thinking about what it
is your partner needs, and that's really hard to do
(05:55):
when you're pissed, but if you can really think about that,
it dates things so quickly that even if it's unresolved,
and even if there still might be a little bit
of underlying tension that you can deal with in the
morning in a very calm, respectful way. Just bringing down
the tension is enough or preventing the fight from starting.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Okay, so you said bringing down the tension. That's very
very important to this conversation and what therapists are saying,
at least to one the ap talk to bringing down
the temperature. That says a lot about your relationship. If
you're able to look at each other and understand and respect.
We got a problem right now. This is not a
(06:38):
good time for us to be doing it. We're going
to meet back up and resolve this. If you are
in a respectful if you are in a solid relationship,
that's not a problem because oftentimes people will do that
and then they don't follow up. I'm like, okay, let's
talk about this later, and you don't talk about it later,
and this goes and goes and go. But even in
(07:00):
the heat of the moment, even if you don't resolve it,
at least a good thing to do is to say, hey,
let's revisit this or even this they suggested, you know what,
we're tired right now, but tomorrow, let's do coffee. Let's
take eleven o'clock, I'll meet you blah blah blah and
talk instet a plan for doing it. That's intentional, that's.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Mature, agreed, And I think a lot of times there
is so much of the anger and the ego that
comes into this comes into play. Is this fear right?
So if you can at least just say I love you.
We don't agree on this, we can talk more about it,
but I love you like just and I know this
is the last thing you want to say sometimes when
(07:39):
you're mad at somebody some but just that little bit
of reassurance that we're gonna get through this. This isn't
we got to figure this out. But you know a
lot of people in a moment of anger and frustration
will do the opposite and say I'm done, We're over,
I can't do this anymore. And some people even throw
the D word out, or they're like divorce or their breakup,
(08:01):
or threaten all sorts of things because they're so angry,
because they're actually so afraid that you start going nuclear.
And then the other it's yes, I think all of
us have been there at one point in our lives.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
If you find this out and I found this out
about you, and it's yes, it's hard sometimes because you
do you piss me off, and we're back and forth
and something's happening. I know all you need is your
handheld or and I love you, or a simple something
and it's all gone right.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
But the point is now, when you say I love you,
I look at you with a side eye because I'm like,
is that a placating I love you?
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And I love you? Now it's got to come in
different degrees. I love you.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I know I'll take it and I appreciate it, and
I actually think it Actually it's not manipulative because I
know you do love me. But sometimes I am laughing
because I'm like, I think he's saying that because he
wants to say something else, but he's reminding himself that
he loves.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
And I agree.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I mean, likewise what I have been doing, because I
am somebody who tends to react emotionally, and I know
that about myself.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I've learned that about myself, and.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I instead, if I can just literally take a breath,
take a walk, take a beat, go to the bathroom,
just breathe in and breathe out, and then come back
and say why was I mad?
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Again?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Like sometimes actually, just give yourself ninety seconds, give yourself
three minutes, and you'll actually say, wow, I was I
was coming at that from a place of insecurity or
a place of I was trying to interpret something that
I actually don't know what the meaning was. And so
I've learned that taking a beat is everything. Taking a
(09:45):
breath is everything.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
This So this is I'll pick up on your point
there with what therapists use. Now, this is an actual
tool therapists use when they're counseling couples, the halt. Had
you heard of this before? No, not either, but the
halt theory, Yes, H A L T. When you are
any of these things, you should avoid a fight. You
(10:10):
should avoid a serious discussion when you're what robes and
it's halt. It's very easy to remember, isn't it ridiculous? Like, well,
obviously remember this.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
I'm laughing because this is so Yes, it's basic, and
it should be self. It should be something you like.
Self evident is the word I was looking for. Yes,
thank you, but it speaks to me.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So if you are h hungry, a angry, l lonely,
or t tired, you should avoid serious conversations. And you
know what, That sounds obvious, But I go back and
think about the times where I'm not proud of what
I said, or proud of how I acted or reacted.
(10:56):
I was one of those four things or all of
them combined. Yah, And on a so instant, I actually
would love statistics on this. How many fights happen on
Friday night? I bet you a lot of fights happen
on Friday night because you've just had a long week.
A lot of folks we are I would say, lucky
to spend most of our time together, but a lot
(11:17):
of folks that spend a lot of time apart there
might have been built up resentments. They haven't had a
chance to talk about it. Friday night comes, you've stuck together,
and all of a sudden it just comes out. And
you are probably hungry, angry, lonely, and tired at the
end of the week because you've been dealing with a
bunch of shit on your own. You're pissed about it,
you're exhausted from the week, and you probably haven't eaten.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Let's talk about it.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Let's have a conversation about how our week went together,
where we have some bones to pick with one another.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Last thing you want, But it is fascinating rope. Everybody
understands this concept. Okay, understand that it's whatever rule, for
whatever reason that's been given to us. The upsides, though
you're talking about it earlier, some people you know you
feel better. I can't sleep with this on my heart
on my brain and they need something resolved. Does that
(12:09):
make sense?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
And I think that the intention is a good one,
but it doesn't ever usually end with the result you
were hoping for. I mean, sometimes it can be, and
kudos to people who can pull that off. But I
do feel like if the reason for the timing is
so I can actually sleep better tonight, it might not
end the way you want it to.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Okay, you would appreciate this on that point. About this
is what the therapists say, and it makes sense what
you hear, and everybody in a relationship, my goodness, ask yourself.
This robes. If you're anxious after you get in a
fight with the person.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
You always anxious after I get into a fight.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
But here's this. If you're anxious and they say about
the going this lay, I need to resolve this because
I'm anxious about my relationship. I'm anxious that this thing hasn't.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Yes, I relate to that completely.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
But here's the thing that the therapists are saying you
should ask yourself about your relationship. What are you anxious about? Yeah,
just because you have a challenge, you shouldn't be worried
that the relationship won't be there in the morning. People
in steady and calm and happy and solid relationships and
issue comes up. Okay, we have a problem. I can
(13:22):
sleep on it. I'm going to feel better in the morning.
But you know, when I get up in the morning,
I'm still gonna love him, still gonna love her, and
we're gonna be Okay. We just got this thing. We
got it. It's not the end of the world. And
solid relationships understand that, and you should sleep just fine
at night.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Is the argument correct?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
And I definitely can say that I am, and we
are at that place, but especially in early stages of relationships,
or I think at different phases where different things have happened,
where trust has been in some instances has been tested.
It's just a scary thing. And I look, I think
(14:02):
I can speak to this. If you love someone so much,
you have to have that same love for yourself. If
you don't love yourself as much as you love the
person you're with, you have an imbalance and you are
going to have to investigate why you feel so needy
or anxious or concerned. It might be the relationship itself,
(14:23):
it might be the person you're with. But I think
sometimes it's important to take those feelings and use them
for self reflection and self examination and ask yourself, why
do I feel so needy? What is it that I
think this person should be doing for me or to
make me feel better? And I think when you can
(14:43):
make those really important self reflections and truly get curious
about why you feel the way you feel, it will
only help improve your relationship with that other person. And
so I just I think that anytime you're feeling those
strong feelings, it's it's your body telling you to do
(15:04):
some examination.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Well, look, I didn't know where it came from. It
sounded like something that a therapist or a counselor came
up with, this idea you should never go to bed angry.
Well stay here, folks. Maybe you already know it, or
maybe you'll be surprised like us to find out it's origins.
And would you believe, yes, it's in the Bible. All right, folks,
(15:37):
we continue now. I guess breaking down or debunking to
some degree, this rule we all thought was written in stone.
If you're in a relationship, you do not go to
bed angry, or at least that should be the goal.
But certainly a lot of people do go to bed angry,
of course. But the Associated Press we saw a recent
(15:59):
article they just did in which they talk to therapists
who are saying, we need to get rid of this
idea because it's even it's unhealthy sometimes to think that
you need to stay awake until the issue is resolved.
It's midnight, we had a bottle of wine. It's been
a long week. You really want to do this right now, ropes.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
You know, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
That's so in our past, in our rear view mirror.
But early on that did happen, and I did. You
would hear me push.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
No, I want to talk now. No, I want to
talk now. I want to I.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Want to get through this now, And always nothing. I
can't think of one time something got resolved and we didn't.
This didn't happen often, but the few times it did,
I always in the morning, I would wake up going, why.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Why did I insist? Because it's it's so.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Much clearer this morning. I understand so much better now
and I do think. I mean, we haven't had any
like that recently, but it's not to say it couldn't
happen again. But through experience, I really do feel like
and I love getting permission from a therapist to say,
(17:13):
go ahead, go to bed pissed off, but go to
bed pissed off knowing that things will get better in
the morning, knowing that you're gonna be able to have
a better, healthier, more rested conversation in the morning that
will actually be constructive.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Oh that's my go to. Now I can end all
of our fights by just saying, let's talk about it
in the morning. I don't care if it's nine am
when we have in our fights. Let's just talk about
it tomorrow morning. Now, because you have seen it work.
Sometimes in the moment, people just can't control themselves, so
we need to create another moment outside of this one.
(17:51):
So yeah, it's been working. Now, how I thought this
was a good This is a useful tip here. This
is a pro tip that they give for how you
can avoid I guess those moments of unsafety, those moments
where you don't feel like you can't express yourself, those
moments where of anxiety that you, I don't know, are
afraid to go to bed angry. They said, create habits
(18:16):
of communication to where ask your partner every day, how
is your day or how was your morning? Or how
did that thing go? Or even if they go to
the grocery story, do you have any issues getting done
to out? Did the god at the front desk bother you?
Or did that crazy lady at the checkout count I
should give your heart like what you're doing is creating
little habits and openings for your partner to be okay
(18:38):
talking to you when there is any issue, to where
we don't have to blow up at some big issue
that comes. It's constant communication to where you know that
your partner might be a little down, a little sad,
a little annoyed by something you did. It's just regular
check in. So I thought that was a good time.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Well, I think that exactly creates what people want more
than anything in a relationship, which is emotional security. So
if you feel like I can tell my or not
just I can tell my partner, but my partner cares
enough to ask me about what happened, and if I
share something bad that happened, he can be there to
(19:16):
comfort me. Or to at least, you know, give me
some sort of place where I can just vent and
knowing that you've got that person you can say anything
too and share anything with. When you stop sharing things
with your partner, when you stop feeling like you can
tell your partner something that happened to you bad, sad, scary,
(19:39):
that's a red flag. And it's not that it's not
it's it's surmountable. You can overcome it. You just have
to be aware of it.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
And if you are starting to get to that place,
that is a warning sign.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Hey, we need to do better at communicating and making
each other feel secure in each other's problems and issues
and just being willing to resolve them together. I ask you, Yeah,
you're really good about asking me how my day went,
how I'm feeling.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
There was something recently and I made sure I may
I don't know if it was your nails, or there
was something that seemingly was mineor and I made a point, Ah,
I've got to make sure I ask her how that went,
because it seemed like a shitty thing to do. Now,
even ask about your experience where you had just been
it actually registered to me. I remember this the other day.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Well, I think we don't spend a lot of time apart,
but we have a couple of times here and there,
Like it is a nail appointment. It's something as insignificant
as that, where we're hey, wow, I haven't seen you
in an hour.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
How did your nails go?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Texting you in the bathroom? Hey, did you have a
good shampoo?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
No? But those things do matter, and it may seem like, wow,
I need to Even if you have to tell yourself
to do it, it does make a difference.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
It does make someone feel like that person cares about
me and cares about what's happened.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
I don't have to tell you or bother you with
some complaint. I have you gave me permission? You want
to hear how I'm doing, and this is how I'm doing. Yeah,
a lot of people just need permission. And I thought
that was a great, great tip. But I did not
know Robes there are some biblical origins to this rule.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I did not know that either.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Ephesians for twenty six and twenty seven. I'm not sure
which version this one here in particular is, but it says,
and I quote, go ahead and be angry. You do
well to be angry but don't use your anger as
fuel for revenge, and don't stay angry, don't go to
bed angry, don't give the devil that kind of foothold
(21:41):
in your life. In Robes, there are some absolutely Christians
who adhere to the idea, Yes, you should get rid
of that anger in your heart because you leave an
opening for the devil.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
I have a couple thoughts on that.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
First of all, I do think there's something to that,
because if you stay angry, what you start doing in
your mind, everyone be honest with themselves. You've been in
a fight with somebody, the more time that goes by
without you addressing it or without you having a conversation
about it, the more time it's all your side and
you continually and then up the demonization of the person
(22:17):
you're fighting with, where you start really and truly coming
up with things that validate your feeling and so whether
they're true or not. We all have a lens through
which we see things, and if we're seeing things through
a lens of anger, it's us versus them, it's you
versus me, and then you just people even call other
people friends, family members and get them on their side
(22:38):
because you want to feel like you're right and they're wrong.
You're not there to understand, to learn, to grow, to
come together. You're there to prove your right. So the
longer it goes, the more you get in that mindset.
So that makes sense, And yes, if that's the devil's work,
however you want to put it, but it leaves open
the opportunity for you to grow further apart, for you
(22:59):
to feel more justified because you have to your egos
telling you I have to prove there's a real reason
why I feel this way and there to blame instead
of being introspective and saying, huh, I wonder why that
triggered me. I wonder what in my past made me
so sensitive in that moment, Like that's something we very
rarely are willing to ask ourselves after a fight, or
(23:21):
after an argument or after a disagreement. But that is
actually the healthy way to look at it. Yes, someone
could have said something inappropriate, but you also have to
acknowledge that you might be sensitive to something based on
your past experience.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
You're not going to get that clarity Friday night, after
long week's work and you're hungry and you just had
two martinis after work it's just you are not it's
not a good time to do it. But I thought
that was interesting. I did not know it had those leanings.
So and again, we don't give that advice. So I
can tell you what works for us. We can tell
you what therapists sae. But yeah, there are plenty of
(23:56):
folks out there who still adhere to that rule and
certainly say it's a good one to try to at
least aspired to you.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
We had such amazing conversations in our love Story series
last February, and from a licensed therapist who deals with
couples therapies to other folks who just gave their anecdotal
experience of fighting. And I think everyone said they went
to bed angry at one point or the other.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
How many couples did we do, I believe, I think
exactly said.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
But a couple of them had really cute, cool ways
of dealing with it. For instance, I remember one couple
I can't remember who said what said even if they're angry,
just putting their foot on top of the other person's
foot in bed, just let that person know, Yeah, I'm
still pissed.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
At you, but I still love you. You don't have
to say it.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
But just that act of and you and I have
done this holding hands, even if we're not in a
great place, you reaching out me reaching out to you.
It actually warms my heart, It relaxes my body.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
I know that we're going to get through it.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
And it's just a small gesture that has a huge impact.
So just a physical touch in any way, small as
it might be in that bed. You don't have to
actually make up or figure anything out, but that is huge.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
And I just I thought that was cool. And we
watched I.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Think it was merrit at first sight, and we were
laughing because I think this is almost impossible. There was
a therapist who suggested, I think it was doctor Pepper,
that while you're fighting you hold hands. Yes, because it's
like you can disagree and you can be angry, but
by the mere act of touching, you're still saying we're
(25:31):
in this together and I love you without having to
say it, but you can still express your feelings. I
think that's a really really he's.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
She's a pro. That's a difficult exercise. That is a
difficultcause it doesn't allow you space to actually be angry.
I cannot love you after you just hurt me and
you know what, I love you, but I don't can't
be loving the expression of you can love me but
not be loving. Oh oh my goodness again, doctor Pepper,
she's a pro. That's a tall I just wanted to
throw that out there.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
I think that the form of.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
That would be in bed in a quiet moment. Yes,
you just touch, and that is just like it's gonna
be okay, and it almost always is. But I love
that we all have permission to go ahead and be
angry and.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Deal with it in the morning. I like that strategy.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
We hope you do too, And thank you for listening everyone.
I may be robot alongside TJ.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Holmes. We'll talk to you soon.
Hosts And Creators
Amy Robach
T.J. Holmes
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