Matt James

Bachelor extraordinaire Matt James is sitting down with Amy and T.J. for a rare tell all interview. 

Find out about his love life with Rachel, where things stand with Chris Harrison, and the details of his mysterious beard. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey, everybody, and welcome robes and TJ here and Bachelor
Nation stand up robes. You're excited. Season twenty eight of
The Bachelor just launched. His name is Joey. But as
Emma just explaining our wonderful producer here, who is twenty
two years old. I say that because it's relevant to
most of the conversations we have about Emma. She said, no,

(00:25):
it's not Joey. It's hot Joey.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah, he's hot, that's what she told us. Yes, he
plays tennis and he's hot.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
The tennis guy.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
But it's still remarkable. Whether you love it, hate it,
like it, indifferent to it, it's a phenomenon that's been
around since two thousand and two, now twenty eight seasons
of The Bachelor, twenty seasons of The Bachelorette.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
I believe it is, yeah, and it's entertaining. Also even
Bachelor in Paradise, which might be my favorite iteration of
the franchise, but I actually was looking it up today.
It is remarkable how many relations and ships, marriages, engagements,
children were born from this show. So it's yes, it's

(01:06):
fun to watch, but it actually has produced fairly impressive results.
I'm actually surprised by it.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Okay, so I was thrown off as we were getting
ready today because this is a Bachelor themed I shouldn't say,
as a Bachelor themed we have one of the most popular,
most famous, most talked about bachelors in the franchise history
sitting in the room with us. We were going to
talk to mad James here in the second he's sitting
here with a big old smile on his face. But
to you, I didn't realize when I'm looking up the
success rate of the Bachelor franchise, I'm looking to see

(01:36):
how many people on the Bachelor got married, I mean
on the Bachelorette. I didn't realize that the numbers are
inflated because they do count Bachelor in Paradise. I didn't
even know, of course it counted.

Speaker 4 (01:45):
No, I didn't know.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
I'm sorry, educate yourself. No, I'm kidding.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
No, But I was really impressed by the couples that
are still together.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Those numbers are still low.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
We should say, well, I mean, maybe my expectations were low.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Actually I was surprised. I shouldn't say. They haven't had
as many seasons of the Bachelor in Paradise, so they
do have a pretty good percentage as far as folks
staying together, getting together, getting married, which is great, but
the others don't have as great a track record. And
that's fine, but it's it's still no matter what, I
am blown away. I've only watched one season, full season of.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
Either or Off.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
It was a Bachelorette as a season I watched Have
You Committed To? A full season before.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
The first one with Trista and Ryan. I was really
into that all those years ago. And then obviously, for
what we did for a living, we were constantly interviewing contestants,
so I watched episodes here and there, but for the
full season. In fact, for a while, my kids, even
when they were younger, we would have fun watching it
as a family. So it actually is family viewing because

(02:48):
you're learning about relationships and how people interact with each other.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
It's it's interesting see that. I don't think it gets
credit for what you just said. People often it's just reality,
it's trash TV, or this isn't how you're supposed to
find love? How can any of this work out? But
I think you hit on something. No matter what I think,
we're all still we want love to work. We are rooting.
We have this hope in this no matter what, and
then we get cynical later. Sure, but I think it's original.

(03:11):
We are rooting for people and we were rooting for love, right.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
I totally agree, And I find that I learn about
communication when I'm watching these shows. Maybe that sounds silly,
but I do think people's emotions when I'm watching it.
It's legit, it's real. It mirrors life.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
This is how you learn to communicat in a relationships.
But I want to see how we're having problems many.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Other times, so do you. But how many times do
you actually get to watch other couples communicate? I mean,
you really get to watch it. And I know cameras
are there and it is in part fantasy, but there
is some real realness to those conversations that I found
to be an interesting and insightful.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Sometimes do you find you were turned off, maybe from
the franchise because of what we did for a living
and where we worked. We were inundated with it all
the time, so it almost felt like we were rebels, Like,
oh God, I got it. I don't want to have
to go I'm in work all day with this and
have to hear I don't want to go home.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
And it was homework.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
It was homework in a sense, but then if you
really actually sit down and watch it, I found it
to be not just entertaining, but fascinating and interesting too
on top of it.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
So I only watched one season, and the one season
I watched was the season The Bachelorette of Rachel Lindsay.
I watched it from start to finish, every single second
of every single episode. I didn't realize she was a
contestant on the previous Bachelor season and she didn't get picked,
so then they made her the Bachelorette. I found this

(04:37):
out as I was on my way to work one morning.
I was on sixth Avenue about to make it left
on the forty fifth.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
Oh, this left an impression with you.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
It did, and you'll see why it is because I saw, Wow,
they're gonna have the first ever black lead. And the
first thoughts I had were, Oh, God, that poor girl,
because I knew what might be coming her way as
the first right and most of the contestants they were
going to give were probably not going to be black.
And what my mind started being concerned for her as

(05:04):
I was getting closer to the studio. I see the rundown.
Rachel Lindsay is on the show that day, so she's
in the studio. I had no idea. I walked in
and I immediately went looking for her. Rachel never met
her before. I found her dressing room where she was
getting hair and makeup done. I walked in, I closed

(05:26):
the door behind me. The first words I ever spoke
to Rachel Lindsay were, sister, I'm worried about you. And
she never met didn't know who I was, and she understood,
and she's been my girl ever since, and we have
We've been good for him because of that, because of
an understanding that you being a first and how this
show has gone about doing its business up to this point.

(05:49):
I was worried about her. Matt, I apologize. I didn't
get a chance to have that conversation with you before
you went on your venture. Everybody, please welcome mister Matt James.
Thank you, Thank you, of course, the first black bachelor
in franchise history. Before we get into a whole bunch
of stuff, how committed are you to the Beard?

Speaker 4 (06:12):
The Beard's on his last leg? Really, the Beard's on
his last leg? Why? Just because as as I've evolved
in my affinity for running. I've I run in the cold,
I running all the elements. So it really is like
a natural built in weather proofer all the elements and
think about that. Yeah, so as it gets warmer, I'm
like a bear. I'm just gonna start shedding hibernation first.

(06:36):
So it's coming.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
What does Rachel think of the beard?

Speaker 4 (06:40):
Rachel's supportive and everything, so like she's so nice about it.
She's like, it looks good and she's never.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
Ever told me to come, but she said it like that.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, I can read between the lines.

Speaker 4 (06:52):
It might be it might be time and preface throwing
it with like Rachel if it ever becomes an issue,
like I don't care that much about it, Like it's
no sentimental value, Like this thing can go. And she's like, okay,
so when are we cutting it? It'll come soon.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
It's like your kid bringing home like a drawing from
school and they want to put it up on the refrigerator.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
You know, it's nice. That's how she feels about the beer.

Speaker 4 (07:15):
I think she just thinks there's looks that that suit
me better. And the beard is again, it's a means
for the running. If I wasn't running in the cold,
I probably would have cut along.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
So wait a minute, you really telling me that this
was all a matter of function, not appearance, not vanity,
not you only look. Really, I did not know that.

Speaker 4 (07:35):
My first go around with the beard, that was like
a stressed beard where I just had like massive beard
right after the show. So that was the function for that.
But now it's like I grew it out. I kind
of liked it, and it's gotten colder. It's been very
easy to run, but now it's it can go robes.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Are you hearing this right? It sounds like it might
be going soon.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
I definitely think it's going to be gone soon. I
have to say, I do like you clean, shave and
better see.

Speaker 3 (07:58):
I feel like that's most you know those women, Yeah, most.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
I just wonder about the hygiene involved with the beard.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
Oh, I have questions, but I don't need them answer.
It's okay. I'm looking at them different.

Speaker 4 (08:12):
Yeah. No, I learned a lot about beard hygiene through
my first my first beard, and I didn't know how
to take care of it. But now I've got all
the grooming done it, I'm washing it, I'm oiling.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
It just seems like a lot of work.

Speaker 4 (08:25):
It is a lot of work, but the latter is
very unpleasant. So I gotta take care do you get
a lot of food in it?

Speaker 1 (08:33):
And I ask you that because if anybody follows you
on Instagram, you are eating I don't know, sixteen hours
of the day.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
Perhaps it's it's honestly, it's that's probably the biggest issue,
is someone not telling you that there's something so and
it's just disgusting. Like if you've ever been around anybody
that has something on their face or in their teeth,
Like I'm just walking around with mustard in my beard
and everyone just kind of looking at me like, oh

(09:00):
my goodness. Yeah, that's things like that. I'm like, man,
I'm kind of ready for this to go too.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
All right, all right, that's exciting. So, by the way,
where is your better half?

Speaker 4 (09:12):
Like most weekends, she is on her way to a wedding. Yes,
she's on a weddo wedding. I didn't even know was
wedding season. I guess wedding season's three sixty five.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
Now, yeah, man, she's right in that sweet spot right
of age where so many friends from college hitting a
certain age and getting married and there's a wedding every
single weekend, it seems.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
How does she feel about going to a wedding without
her plus one?

Speaker 4 (09:36):
That's a great question. There's so many of them that
if I went to every single wedding that I would
miss out on previous engagements. And I had a lot
going on this week in New York. One of those
highlights being to come see you all.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
So wait, don't blame.

Speaker 4 (09:51):
Us, Sorry, Rachel, what the hell? Hey, hey, Rachel, baby,
I'm sorry. This is on TJ and Amy, I was Rachel.
We gave him next week as an option to Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, Speaking of weddings, how many times do you get
that question a day? Oh?

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Man?

Speaker 4 (10:08):
It depends on how many people we see. It's constant,
but I get it. I mean, we are Our relationship
and love was so public and is still so public
that everyone has a vested interest in and when that's happening,
and I tell most people, and I'll tell y'all, we
wouldn't be together if that wasn't the end goal. And

(10:29):
the longer we've been together, the more of a reality
that is becoming, and especially when we go to weddings
together and we start to bounce ideas off each other,
we just kind of start to create our own perfect wedding,
which is fun. So when we leave places and venues
and travel and countries are like, would you want to
get married over here? It's like, yeah, do.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
You have a list of just your thinking destination wedding?

Speaker 4 (10:53):
What I say doesn't matter, whatever it's going to be
wherever and whatever she wants, which is fitting. But I
think that a destination wedding would be amazing, and I
think that she slow to that idea too, just because
we have so many people that we'd want to enjoy
that with us, and if you have a destination wedding,
it kind of trims it down a little bit. Listen,

(11:16):
the weddings are expensive. Weddings are expensive, So it's something
that we talk about and it's not something that we're
not like having conversations about all.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
Warm weather destination. Now now I'm not assuming we are
going to be on the invite list, but it's a
warm weather destination.

Speaker 4 (11:33):
You all look at it, right? Yeah, for sure?

Speaker 3 (11:34):
For sure? Definitely no beard, no beard, no beard, no beard.

Speaker 4 (11:37):
I couldn't get away with the beer for the wedding.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
I will say, though no one else can see your face.
But when you were just talking about it.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
It was sweet.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Your face lit up, there was a warmth, like it
was a really cool thing to see how warmly you
talk about it. Despite having to constantly talk about it,
I can still see it's an exciting thing to look
forward to that you're planning and you're developing, and I
don't know what. You fell in love in front of everyone.
Your entire relationship was exposed in front of everyone. How

(12:08):
have you dealt You were a real estate agent before this,
how have you dealt with the public pressure of being
in a relationship. I mean, yes, people are rooting for you,
but what is that like?

Speaker 4 (12:21):
Oo? I dealt with it very poorly. Initially. You just
try to do things to appease people, and that's just
a very dangerous path to go on because you can't
make anybody happy. It's hard enough to make your partner happy.
So like doing things in the consideration of others is
just as a non starter. So we started living for

(12:43):
each other and we focused on each other and we
just stayed out of the nonsense. And I think that's
where we thrive, and that's why we're not allowed. That's
why we're not around a lot like there's so many
things that go on in that reality world and bachelor
world that you're pulled into because you know you'll always
be a part of it. I'm getting sent stuff daily

(13:05):
from people and getting tagged and stuff. But our relationship
is strong because we focus on each other.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
You say focus on each other now, but you use
that word appease others outside of the relationship. Where did
you find that you were making some missteps and doing
something personally or doing something with her or in relation
to your relationship that was for somebody outside of the relationship.

Speaker 4 (13:32):
I think that you take advice from people who aren't married,
aren't family, don't know what it means to be in
a healthy relationship. So you're taking in all this outside
noise that is just noise, and you've got to decipher,
like what's the basis of their advice, Like is it

(13:54):
selfishly they just want to see a ribbons hide on
this experience that they all went through with you, and
they're just it's a selfish thing, or they're like they
actually want the best for you, and the people that
want the best for us have never put pressure on
our relationship. And with that type of relationship, to those

(14:15):
people were more susceptible to what they have to say
because we know they're coming at it from love and
from someone who cares about as opposed to someone that
just like that really doesn't care. Because there's so much
turnover in the franchise that you know there's going to
be the next person, the next person, the next person,
so that end goal will come to them at some point,

(14:35):
and as someone who had been in that situation, you
feel the pressure to make that happen. And I'm not
gonna call anybody out, but as you've seen over the
past couple of seasons, just because the show ends out
a certain way doesn't necessarily mean that that relationship is

(14:56):
going to withstand the test of time.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
And conversely, you all had broken up when you were
doing the After the Rose the Reunion special. You all
weren't together and then look what happened. I guess started
backstage and then a month later. Do you feel any
public pressure to stay together?

Speaker 4 (15:15):
I don't think so. I don't think Rachel feels that either.
I mean, when you've been together as long as we have,
there's love there. You know you can't you could fake something,
but for so long and you see it with people
who were together. But I think anyone who's been around
Rachel and I can tell that we were made for
each other. Which is crazy because during the show, you

(15:37):
know everything. So you made a point earlier about you
and TJ were talking about having learned about couples communicating
while watching people communicate on the show. You can't run
away from tough conversations like you can in the real world.
Like in the real world, if I wasn't going to
talk to somebody like back then, I would have just

(15:58):
not texted them back and like, I'm sorry, but that's
my honest answer, Like I wasn't gonna Hey can we
meet up? Hey, I don't think we should be together?
Are you okay? Okay, let me walk you out, Like
I'm not doing that. I'm like, the easiest way for
me to confront that was just to I'm never gonna
talk to them again. I'm not saying that was the
right way, but like going through those experiences on the
show has helped.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
You had to break up with people, Yeah, to their face,
it's the worst and put them in a car.

Speaker 4 (16:25):
Do we have to relive that?

Speaker 3 (16:28):
You know what?

Speaker 1 (16:28):
She makes a good point back to the breaking up.
I know bechelation is an enormous nation, and I know
you constantly get inundated with things, but do you ever
hear from anyone do you continue any friendships from people

(16:50):
that were on your season, and even any of them
try to give you any advice about what you're doing.

Speaker 4 (16:57):
You made a very interesting point when you were talking
about that connection that you and Rachel Lindsay had just
off of the few words you shared before the interview,
haven't never met each other, And I think Rachel and
I have a similar relationship. Rachel Lindsay, she was the
last person I spoke with before they took my phone
and before I went out into this like super foreign experience,

(17:20):
and she gave me some of the best advice that
helped shape the decisions I made during that time. And
that was off, that was out of the kindness of
her heart, Like we didn't know each other, like she
had just seen me on social or like heard through
the grapevine. She had a better relationship with the woman
who didn't want me on the show than she did

(17:41):
with me. And because I was supposed to be on
another woman's show who ultimately didn't work out, and so
Rachel reached out to me, and I was like, dang,
like this is. I spoke with a bunch of different
former contestants Bachelor's Batch, mostly Bachelor's. I didn't sach out
to any Basarettes, but I had Nick Vaiao reach out.

(18:04):
I talked wells. I talked to Ben Higgins, like people
who I still look up to and respect, And it
was just something different about the Rachel Lindsay conversation, just
because she I think she could relate and feel the
pressures and the weight of that stage and what it
meant for a lot of people. So yeah, me and Rachel,

(18:27):
we don't talk every day, but whenever she's in New York,
she'll reach out to me. I hosted and mediated her
second book conversation, So we have a good relationship.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
You know, I have to since we're talking about Rachel Lindsay.
I think that news has been out there and everybody
knows now she is split with the guy she ended
up with after her season, her husband that her to
be going through divorce proceedings. What is your reaction to,
not necessarily just that they broke up, but the reaction
that has been out there to her splitting you Being

(18:58):
in the unique position you are where people are rooting
for you or waiting for you to break up. I
want to put a bull on it. I think is
how you said it? What do you think about what
you're seeing and how people I've reacted to? What was
I guess a polarizing couple of in a lot of ways,
now splitting after.

Speaker 4 (19:13):
Four years, I'm heartbroken for I think that a lot
of people look at these, you know, reality relationships as
you know, is that like it's just a fictional thing
and there's real emotions there. They were married, like people
forget that they were married.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
They moved into like move across country.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
I think that people don't look at the union of
marriage the same with those type of people, and they're
no different from from anybody else. So, along with an
answer to say I was heartbroken for because those it
was hard enough to break up with someone that I
barely knew on the Bachelor, Like I couldn't imagine having
that type of a conversation with someone that you know,
you were planning to spend the rest of your life with.

(19:57):
So I haven't spoken to her, just out of respect
of or her situation, but I've been praying for and
it's just sad like I don't want I root for
love and you know it's devastating. I can't imagine what
they're going through.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
And can I say to you and you will be
on board with this.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
I was the same way.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Rachel and I have been closed for a long time,
but when everything was going on, my initial reaction was
to let me hold that, let me give her a beat, and.

Speaker 4 (20:22):
Just stay out of the way.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
And then I thought about you.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
I thought about Montel, I thought about Chuck, I thought
about Halle, I thought about Candy, I thought about I
thought about all the people when I was going through
hell and nobody knew what the hell to say to me.
It made a difference that you picked up the phone
and sent that message. It made a difference to just
get that and I have. I've talked to Rachel since
all this went down, and just it means everything when

(20:46):
you're going through hell to hear and I know I'm
not getting on to you for it, but I know
exactly the position you were sitting in, and I assure
you she wants to hear from you.

Speaker 4 (20:54):
Yeah, I needed to hear that because I think about
it selfishly, I'm like, oh, I need to say something
to her, but it's like it's like what is what
is she need at this moment? And like what And
I saw that she recently posted that she did a
girl ship, which I'm through them. I'm super excited for
her because you need in that moment the people to
come around you. And like you were saying, when you

(21:15):
were going through what you were going through, like we
at the time, we didn't have the strongest or best
relationship just because we hadn't known each other for long,
but the way that we first met and interacted, like
I just it was something in my spirit that I

(21:37):
just looked up to you, like the way that you
handled everything that I was going through and our relationship
with grace and guidance, and it honestly inspired me to
want to pursue what you were doing. I wanted to
be you.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
Do you still want to be him?

Speaker 4 (21:54):
I still want.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
To be you can do better?

Speaker 4 (21:59):
So but yeah, no, those those type of conversations met
more than you know. And there was the ones we
had on air, and there's a lot of conversations that
we've had off air and time we spent together that
no one will ever know about that it meant a lot,
and it means a lot.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
I was trying to explain this to the Ropes, who
was obviously a witness to everything going on, But she
was also a witness to every time I picked up
the phone and said, Hey, just heard from Matt. Let
me let you read this, or hey, I got lunch
with that. I think you were the first person when
everything went down and shit hit the fan with us.
You were the first person outside of Robot that I
set foot out with publicly. We went to had Mexican

(22:36):
a couple of times in the spot and try it
beca We went for a run. But to your point,
you don't realize. I guess we switched positions here in
a lot of ways. And you I will inundate you
with text now if I don't hear from you how
you do the hell with it? Brother, I'm gonna keep
coming at you until you let me know you okay,
But you were the one, and that time you were

(22:57):
one of those who wouldn't give up on me, who
wouldn't let me crawl on draw a rock and bro
while you know this, how many you know that handful
of guys that meant everything to me? And you know
one of them you were hearing about because this dude's sitting.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Right here right I was going to tell you, Matt,
you may not realizing it sounds like you don't just
how much you meant to TJ during this past year.
It was a huge source of comfort to know that
someone cared and someone got it. I think, you know
that's and I love what you just said about how
I think a lot of people watch these types of shows,

(23:35):
or watch anyone who's on television or in the public eye,
and somehow think that they are insulated from pain or
insulated from.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
Trauma. And it's actually.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Amplified in a lot of ways, because everyone going through
something private, whether it be a divorce or any sort
of breakup or any sort of controversy, is painful enough,
but to have it amplified and the pressure of that
is even more so. You know, I know that you
get it, and people, I think sometimes forget it, or
sometimes they just believe that somehow there's so many other

(24:08):
great things going on in your life that this doesn't
mean as much. You know, relationships and you know, the
ups and downs and all rounds of them are probably
the thing that impacts all of us the most.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
In our lives.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
That's why the Bachelor probably is such a phenomenon because
we all get it, we all relate to it to
an extent.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
And I know that in.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Your season you were the first black Bachelor, and so
race obviously was going to be a part of it.
But race played a role that you probably couldn't have
even imagined ultimately. And I'm curious today because obviously TJ
and I live this to an extent in terms of
your relationship and how you all interact and connect or

(24:46):
perhaps don't see things the same way or need to
be reminded of or educated or re educated about things
on black and white issues, like how much of that
is a part of your relationship?

Speaker 4 (24:57):
You know what? There was a time where as the
show was airing, Uh, it seemed like where our country
was at the time, no one wanted our relationship to work.
And the things that humanized my relationship with Rachel, like
you were saying, people saw us as people on TV
and not humans. And I lived in TJ's neighborhood and

(25:24):
I would see TJ in what's it called the Seaport,
I would see the CJ, I'd see see I'd see TJ.
And the seaport walking to go get lunch with his
beautiful daughter, and I was like, damn, I was like,
I want that. It's a beautiful daughter. I was like,

(25:44):
I want that family. And I'd see TJ running and
and I had these interactions with people that I looked
up to who had things that I wanted, and I
saw it again for myself and I had those confirmation
I had those confirmations affirmed, and I had those conversations
with Rachel about you know, people who had done it

(26:06):
before us, and it was encouraging to see that it
wasn't something that was foreign and shouldn't be foreign at
you know, twenty twenty two. But it just took us
taking time to really get to know each other. Because
what a lot of people don't understand is when you
go on a show like that, yeah it's eight weeks,

(26:29):
but the actual time, like the literal time you spend
with that person could be quantified in hours. So like
I had spent maybe seven hours with this woman that
people wanted me to, you know, propose to, And when
you think about it like that, it's like that's the
ultimate speed dating, you know. So it's just we just

(26:49):
went about things a different way and we're still here,
we're together, and a lot of people can't say that.
Who you know, rush that process, and we're not rushing things.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
So married at first sight wouldn't be your jam. That
shows what you wouldn't do it though.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
Listen, listen what we did. It's basically what we did. Okay,
you got seven hours.

Speaker 4 (27:18):
It's basically what we did. And I said I would.
I paused because I'm so like, my relationship is is perfect,
and I wouldn't want to I wouldn't want to go
out of out of the relationship that I'm in. But
I was. I wasn't familiar with that show until recently
when Rachel showed me. Rachel showed me a video that
is the funniest video I may have ever seen in

(27:42):
my entire life. I share a little snippet of it
with you. Video. It's this guy's talking to the lady
that he just married or is about to marry, and
he goes, I'm gonna watch this, but you can go
look it up. And he's like the lady that he's
speaking with, she's like, oh, this is a pretty view.

(28:03):
And then he looks at her and he says, you're
my prettiest view. And then she looks at him and
she goes, eh, I just died laughing. We have to
cue that video.

Speaker 3 (28:14):
For this, But I was just gonna season.

Speaker 4 (28:17):
Does anyone you haven't seen Oh.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
No, nor first. We just watched my most recent.

Speaker 4 (28:25):
It might be ninety day Fiance. Yes, I like to view.
And he's like, you're my best view and she's like, eh,
we haven't done that. You gotta watch that. So I'm
getting confused. I've seen ninety day Fiance. I haven't seen
Love of Mary first. No, I've never seen that Mary
at first sight.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
Please please, you meet the person you're going to marry
when you're standing at the altar with the efficient ready
to go. Your family is there, your friends are there,
and you've trusted the producers who have used this algorithm
to put together Apparently you're perfect match on paper, and
you anually, legitimately legally get married.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
On the spot that moment, you don't have a.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
Choice, and you get married, and then you have eight
weeks to figure out if you're going to stay married
or you actually have to end up getting divorced.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
It's decision day.

Speaker 4 (29:12):
Yes, this is a real Yes.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
It's nuts. It's The Bachelor on steroids.

Speaker 4 (29:17):
Wow, I need to watch this. Yes, it's always nice.
I always tell people this who ask about our relationship.
I'm like, it's always nice to see someone else go
through it, Like, well, it's not your drama. So like
people who are so enamored by, you know, everyone else's stuff.
Now it looks like I can take part of that.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
Love at first sight.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Wow, look you you threw in the word perfect a
second ago. I knew what you were saying. You said
you OL's relationship is perfect. Obviously nobody's is, but you
were making a point there. But I do want to
go back to the word perfect to where we look
from the outside. If anybody follow listens to you here,
it follows you on Instagram. Yes, everything does look and
appear perfect. You seeing me going through the seaport, smiling

(29:57):
daughter with me, everything looks perfect. There was some hell
going on in my life at the time. You what
is the hell right? What is it we don't see
to where yes, it's perfect and you can have a
wonderful relationship, But when are the moments that it's not perfect?
What are the moments that aren't perfect? Are they just

(30:17):
normal moments like the rest of us.

Speaker 4 (30:18):
Have in relationships. You know, that's a good question. There
was a there was like a few months ago where
I was like, I was thinking to myself, I'm like,
how do I engage with my audience more so they
have a more holistic view of our relationship. And I
was like, I'm gonna film like us getting into a fight.
And it wasn't like like I wasn't gonna like pick

(30:40):
a fight where it's like that would have been easy,
Like I could have left all the all the I
could have left all the cabinets opened, or the refrigerator
cracked like done. Stuff that like annoys her. But I
didn't get around to that. I still might film one.
But we actually got into an argument yesterday and it

(31:02):
was so dumb. It usually is. It's always the it's
the always the dumbest stuff.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
So you probably got a good relationship your relationship if
it's petty little stuff that is not even worth talking about,
and you're probably doing pretty well. It was so dumb,
and what was it about.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
I want to know.

Speaker 4 (31:15):
I'll tell you it's it's so dumb. I hadn't gotten back.
Let me let me rephrase this, Let me rephrase this,
let me rephrase this. It wasn't something worth getting that
upset about. It wasn't dumb, but it was like it
was dumb. It was dumb on my part. You got upset,

(31:35):
not her. I got upset. Okay, So so I had
a long morning. Obviously I worked so hard and he's
a prefacing everything.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
I was tired, just so you know, I was tired,
bust in my tail.

Speaker 4 (31:51):
To bring food home for the yes and I call
Rachel lunch because I just like want to hear a
voice and just like hear this like fresh breath of air,
like just like put me at ease. And I called her.
I was like, hey, babe, She's like, Matt, you haven't
given us the food for the wedding yet. Are you
going to give Michael's? Are you going to give Michael
the dish you need? Is it a veget And she

(32:12):
just started going on this thing that I hadn't done.
I should have done this a long time ago. And
it was the last thing I was trying to hear.
And I was like, are you serious, Like you're not
going to ask how my day was like? And we
just like got into this like spat back and forth,
and I hung up and I was like I was like,
i'll call you back later, like I can't talk to
you right now. And I was walking to go get

(32:33):
a cookie and uh and I opened the door and
I smelled the cookies and I was like, it's like
what am I doing? And I called her back and
she's like like sniffle and I'm like, I'm my baby,
I'm sorry. She's like she's like I forgive you and
like and she's just like so loving and understanding in
that moment that like it was it was so dumb

(32:54):
and like, thank goodness. That's the extent of like our
our fights. Like there aren't like any major blow ups
or like any controversial things we've like gone at it about,
but just the I think the moral of that story
is we both have an understanding of like what is
and isn't silly and when something isn't worth, you know,

(33:16):
going to war over. She's the first to call me
and apologize, and I'll do the same and I apologize.
But yeah, that's the things she don't see.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Okay, Rose, we got to get this out. After hearing
that story, I'm curious for you, what is your first
question to him? As a follow up, And I'll tell
you what mine is after hearing that story, what is
your question?

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Oh, so I was going back because you can put
it into perspective. My thought was, how much of what
you what you went through with the public scrutiny, all
the controversy, kind of having to hide out. We've talked
about this from the cameras, from the press, how much
of going through something that actually was serious, that actually
was really difficult gave you the expect to be able
to brush off something that could fester, that could look

(34:04):
to say, you know what, this isn't that big of
a deal.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
So yeah, my question was how long did it take
for you when you hung up the call her back?

Speaker 4 (34:10):
Those those are two incredible questions. I'm gonna answer Amy's first.
And it's funny you say that, Amy, because Rachel has
literally said that to to me when we've gone when
we've gone at it over something ridiculous, like we're just
sitting there on the couch and she's like, like, I
can't believe we're arguing over this after everything we've been through.

(34:32):
I'm like, you're right, Like I'm I'm sorry, I'm sorry,
and like it's that amlicable. It's it really when you
face the toughest adversity at the rip and off the
peak and at the beginning of your relationship. I mean,
you can get through anything, which is comforting to know
that you know you have someone who will stick by

(34:54):
you through you know, the ups and downs, not that
there won't be more, but just that it's battle tested.
So yeah, that was that is like our our north star.
It's like, it's like we've gotten through this, Like, let's
that's our grounding moment. It's like we've if we've made
it through everything else, then this is this is nothing

(35:15):
close to that. So let's just I'm like, you're right, baby.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
The storm came early, and it came fast.

Speaker 4 (35:20):
Storm came early and fast. And to answer to TJ's
question about how quickly I called her back, probably forty
five seconds.

Speaker 3 (35:29):
Oh wow, yeah, I'll tell you were gonna say forty
five minutes.

Speaker 4 (35:31):
No, No, I wouldn't let it faster that long. Yeah,
I was like, I hung up. I just needed a second,
and I was just like, and it's it's typically how
it goes with us, Like before you say something dumb
either way, it's like you're gonna hang up and just
take a second to collect your thought. And then call back.
It's usually yeah, So I knew I was in the wrong,
so I called back, and I'm like, tail between my legs, baby,

(35:54):
I'm sorry. I didn't I didn't mean. I'll take the
go ahead, salmon.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
You dying to say something? No, I'm not. I don't
need to point anything out. No, no, no, no. Then I'll
point this out.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
I get that, like I, when you're in the wrong,
you've got to jump on it in that moment. I
think most fights and things take place and there it's
never really about what happened. It's how you handle what happened.
That's the fact that ends up being the problem. And
so no, that's and to your point about recording an argument,

(36:29):
I don't know ropes so we recommend that or not.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
I mean, so we did a couple of weeks ago,
and people fell on either side of the fence on
whether or not we should have. But I look back
at it and I learned a lot from it, So
I don't know that I would recommend it to anyone.
You have to be personally willing to re listen to
yourself and to hear things differently, and that is part
of the process. I actually personally am very glad for me.

(36:55):
I think it actually was a moment. I feel like
a different person afterwards now, I really do so for me,
it was actually helpful, but it came with a price
because people weigh in.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
You know, that's the thing. You know, you're you don't
want to put on.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
This perception of having some perfect relationship, and there is
something about knowing you're not alone and it is relatable.
And no matter who you are, no matter where you live,
or how much money you make, or what your circumstances are,
we all still come down to the same basic things.
We want to feel loved, we want to feel safe,
we want to feel heard, we want to feel understood.

(37:31):
So I do think that that there is real value
in understanding that and knowing that everyone's in the same place, genuinely.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
But we were letting you know from where we were
at the time. She didn't know it was about to happen.
We were in a whatever little beef and she wasn't
with me at the house and I just set up
the microphones. She came over and I said, hey, let's
just talk it out and see what happens. And we
had days to decide whether or not to put it
out there, and so we had to go back and
listen to ourselves fight like five times.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
It's tough.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
It spawned more difficult conversations and fights, and a big
part of the had did have to do with race.
It did have to do with not seeing eye to
eye on some things, or how something could be perceived
coming from a black man talking to a white woman
or a white woman talking to a black man. Now, privately,
there's no issue, but then once you hear it laid

(38:22):
out and you put it out there for people to hear.
So I think when she was asking you earlier about
how race ever plays into it, winn in your private moments,
does she have a moment where she needs to be
And I don't want this sound the wrong way, but educated,
almost unaware of or doesn't know how to handle something
related to you as a black man, your culture, your upbringing,

(38:43):
your way of seeing the world. How often do those
things in the way the world suits you, do those
things come up?

Speaker 4 (38:52):
I mean, to be honest with y'all, we're so fortunate
that and I say this from like the highest level
of level of privilege, Like I am so fortunate that
a majority of my interactions with people, are interactions with people,
We're not having those type of extreme racial reactions to

(39:19):
our relationship to I'm trying to think of the best
way to answer this, because there have been moments I'm
just trying to think of.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
So I'll give you and while you are thinking to
give me an idea, and it robs you, like this
is something that didn't come about because of us, but
we happen to be around someone who, right, a group
of folks who someone a white person says something about
black culture, says something about black folks, makes a reference
to something in the way to where it now her

(39:51):
ear to where everybody in the room who might be
all be white, they look and they listen, they're laughing
or chiming in, and I'm like this with my arms
just listening. She now can hear what was just said
and understand why it came into my ear and would
have been interpreted differently to where and again, no offense

(40:12):
to you, right, you didn't do anything wrong, but she
didn't understand why I might be offended by the way
the world is seeing me and not respecting me, or
not appreciate it, not being considered at all. Those types
of things do rear their heads every now and again
with us. Doesn't call a rift between us, Oh no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
But I would say that I just so where I
think what you're specifically referencing is a lot of people,
in an effort they come from maybe a good place,
trying to connect or relate to the black experience. It's
offensive because they can't. And so seeing people desperately try
to connect or relate and so being offensive in a
way that I wouldn't have necessarily realized before hit it.

Speaker 4 (40:57):
That hit well, not for me personally, but I've seen it, Like,
I see so much of it because like people so
much want to be like I feel you, but like
there's other ways to like, you know, support that cause
then to like, you know, try to draw to an
experience that you might not you know, be able to represent. Yeah,
but I would say to answer your question, and again

(41:19):
this is like coming from the biggest area of privilege,
is like if we're going to dinner or we're going uh,
if if we're at the airport and I think that
me going up to this individual is gonna warrant a
negative response, then all of a sudden, Rachel m h.

(41:40):
And I'll be like like and I know, like, that's
that's how that's just how it goes, like.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
No, because we have all at some point in your life.
You've been in a car and the police lights come
on in the back and you we look around. We
tell the white dude with us, hey, you got this
one right like you tell them they talk to the
cops for us. There have been plenty of times Robes,
I say hey, you need to handle this one, you
need to take this because they yes, see yeah, and

(42:04):
now it's coming, now it's coming, It's here, it's here,
all right here.

Speaker 4 (42:08):
I was in Marble Falls, Texas.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
It's a good start to a store.

Speaker 4 (42:14):
It's a suburb an hour south of Austin, and I
was there for my college roommate's wedding and I had
rented a car for the weekend and I was driving
to the and I was driving to pick up a
cowboy hat because it was cowboy themed. This is a

(42:34):
great story.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
I think I saw the picture of YouTube on Instagram
with you with the cowboy hat.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
You guys looked great. Okay, I know what you're talking about.

Speaker 4 (42:43):
And Rachel's flight was delayed some by myself, and Rachel
is going to uber and meet me at the reception
and then we're going to leave after So on the
way to the reception, I get pulled over. I haven't
been pulled over. I haven't been pulled over since my
sophomore year of college when I was legitimately speeding, Like

(43:04):
I was speeding and I got a ticket, as you
should if you're speeding. I was going to speed limit.
I have my I have my headlights on, I have
my seat belt on. And I get pulled over and
my heart starts to race. I'm like, oh shit. I'm like,
I'm in I'm in Texas. I'm black, I'm by myself,

(43:28):
Like this is a rental car. I don't know where
the registration is. Like, I'm my heart is racing. I
turned the car off. I take the keys out and
put them on top of the car, and the cop
comes up to the car. He's like, sor do you
know how fast you were going? I was like the
speed limit? Like he's like you you He's like, you

(43:48):
flew by me, And I was like in my head,
I'm like, were you stationary like like cars typically do.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:56):
I'm just like I'm trying to figure out, like I'm
like what do you know how fast I was going?
And he's like, well, you were going faster than me.
And I was going to speed then, and I'm just
like and I'm just like trying to de escalate, de escalate,
to escalate, And long story short, I don't get a
ticket for speeding. I get it. I get some sort
of like infraction for improper equipment or something like that.
And I'm just like, I'm like, thank god, that's all

(44:18):
I made it out there with. Thank god, that's all
I made it out of that situation with. Go to
the party. Leaving the party, Rachel's in the car. This time,
I get pulled over leaving the party. Wow, I get
pulled over twice in one night. Cop comes up the car.
This time. Rachel's in the car though, Oh god, I
can't make this up. Ma'am. Are you okay? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (44:42):
Wow?

Speaker 4 (44:43):
She's like yeah, I'm fine. He's like, you know how
I pulled you over? I was like, honestly, I have
no idea. Enlighten me, Like at this point, I'm mad.
I'm like, I'm like, he's like, you were speeding. He's like,
you were going he said, you were going thirty eight
in a thirty five technically I was speeding, and I

(45:05):
was like in my head, I'm just like, am I
gonna go to jail? Like what is? Like?

Speaker 3 (45:10):
What?

Speaker 4 (45:10):
Like I'm like, you know what, sir, I'm sorry, Like
I didn't realize that. I just tried to again, de escalate,
de escalate because that's what you have to do in
this position if you're aggressive, like who knows what's gonna happen.
So I'm like, sir, you're absolutely right, I was speeding.
I apologize, like I didn't realize I was going thirty
eight and to thirty five. He's like, a right, give
me a second, do you have your license? Gave my license?

(45:32):
He walks away seemed like forever, then comes back to
the car. Finally he's like, I'm gonna let you off
with a warning, but you better not come through here
speeding again. And I'm just like took my license back.
I'm just like getting chills thinking about it. And then
like Rachel was crying in the car. She's just like
I'm so sorry, Like I just I had no idea

(45:53):
because we'd never had an experience like that, And moments
like that is when it's like the because it's like
that's what like potentially our kids would have to deal
with And that's what life's like when you know you're
in certain parts of the world.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
So we we had several of those. I was going
to ask you how she reacted.

Speaker 4 (46:14):
Yeah, she was, she was not okay, like she was flustered.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
But describe again, and I want Ropes to hear this.
When you get pulled over, what do you do? What
do you do as soon as you see the lights?
Just what is your process in the car took?

Speaker 4 (46:26):
I turned the car off, I put the keys on
top of the car. I rolled down every single window
in the car, rolled down the back windows, I rolled
down the front windows. I turned the lights on in
the car. I have my hands on the steering wheel
like this, and I'm like shaking because I don't know
what's gonna happen, Like I don't know, Like I'm trying
to think of what I did. I'm like like everything's
racing through my Head's like did I just run a

(46:47):
red light that I hit somebody? Like what did I do?
And like you're just like I feel like I was.
There was no benefit of the doubt in that moment,
or there was no yeah, there was no I wasn't
given any benefit of the doubt, Like it was just like,
we're gonna find something. And you know, I'm not saying
that every situation is like that. It just happened that
that just happened to happen that night like that. And

(47:08):
I usually have positive interactions with law enforcement. I don't ever,
you know, find myself. They're typically helping me for something,
but in this situation, it was it was scary for
both of us.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
Yeah, I mean, those are the eye opening moments that
I would be willing to say most white people can't
even imagine. It's something you actually almost need to see
to really really understand and get Someone can say it,
but when you're in it and you watch it and
you witness it, it's a completely different experience. And again
it's still a different experience for me because, as you

(47:37):
pointed out, the police officer asked Rachel if she was okay,
and that is that is one of those moments where
you're just like, holy crap, So do you all I
don't even know in terms of just how you all

(47:59):
are generally recive. Do you do you have to deal
with ugly comments? Do you have to deal with critics?
I mean, and how do you deal with with with
those types of people in the scrutiny that almost anyone
who's a public.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
Couple would have to deal with. How do you guys
handle that?

Speaker 4 (48:15):
I think so much of what Rachel and I share
and promote on our social platforms is just love positivity,
like joyfulness, Like we're not digging into the tea behind
this or like trying to pick apart the negativity here,
like we're only about the positivity. So like we don't
even have a breeding ground for like that type of narrative.

(48:36):
Like if they want that, like there's a million outlets
for that, Like they can go to this page for
the gossip, they can go to this page for the
tea and for the drama. Like that's not really where
it happens, but if there, if it does happen on
in our comments or in our messages, it's just as
simple as a block and a and a you know,
a deleting.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
A block and a delete. I love a block and athlete.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
In fact, my kids showed me and they went through
my stuff and there's like key words that you can save.
Any of these comments have these keywords in it, they
aren't seen that's crazy, right. I took my young daughter
on all platforms, TikTok and Instagram. My girls last week
went through and said, here are the keywords, and I
won't go through them.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
But he started laughing coming up with them.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
And now that they've gone through, like these twelve words,
one word, give.

Speaker 4 (49:23):
Us one word, give us one. There's got to be
one that's appropriate, is it?

Speaker 1 (49:30):
I mean, now, wait, so you can idental, you can
listen to words.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
You can listen and.

Speaker 4 (49:39):
Yeah, wait time, I'm just imagining you and your daughters.

Speaker 3 (49:44):
Yeah, yeah, and we did that.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
It's totally worked because if you start to look at
the negative comments, they all kind of say the same thing.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
So you just pick out the.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
Words and then now I have nothing well mostly just
positive things now. So it's been actually a game changer.
So just in you have to deal with that, like.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
Two words I need to take out.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
I actually don't want to give them any life. That's
actually why I don't want to say them. But yeah,
I'm thinking, oh yeah, but I'm thinking you could probably
figure out what the words are. I actually just don't
want to give them any power. So I don't want
to save them out loud, because then people might try
to find another word to get around it, and I.

Speaker 3 (50:21):
Don't want to give anybody any ideas what words I
used to block. It's a game. It makes a difference,
It makes a total difference.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
You know you you're like you said, but you're a
big part and there's so much there. I mean, God,
how many blogs or sites or dedicated to just Bachelor Nation?

Speaker 4 (50:41):
Do you?

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Are you a proud alum of Bachelor Nation?

Speaker 3 (50:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (50:46):
I mean it gave me one of the best things
that's ever happened to me, which is my relationship with Rachel.
Like I wouldn't be in I wouldn't be in a
relationship with the woman I love if it wasn't for
the show. And there was more positive than negative that
came from it. There's negativity and everything, but if you
and if we decided to dwell on it, then that
just tarnishes anything. Like there's probably an experience we all

(51:07):
had in college where it's like, when someone asked you
about college, you think about the best times you had.
It's like, man, that one time where I failed that
test and I was hungover, Like, no, you don't think
about that stuff. You think about all of the things
that made that experience joyful, and yeah, I am happy
about I'm happy, I'm proud about the experience. But a

(51:30):
lot of what comes with being a part of that
show is speculating on relationships and rumors and gossip and
weighing in on things, and frankly, I don't want to
be a part of anything negative into anybody's life. So
that's the only reason why I steer clear of those

(51:51):
type of conversations. So like, there's I have love for everybody,
like I don't have ill will towards anybody, And if
anybody ever reaches out to me, I'm there to chop
it up with him, but I'll never go out of
my way to like, you know, insert myself into something
that a place I don't think I should be. But
if someone reaches out, I'm there. And I've had a
bunch of former Bachelor and Bachelorettes reach out after the

(52:12):
season being like, how did you navigate this? How do
you navigate that? And I'm there to give advice and
a sounding board, and I'll reach out similar to how
our conversations were when you were going through stuff to
know that, like you know, sometimes you're living in a bubble,
like it's like you think that you're at you know,
you're at the grocery store and you're like, oh, that
person knows about this. It's like, man, they're just trying
to get cheese. Like so not everyone's always thinking about

(52:34):
what you're going through, Like like, it's okay.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Do you have a relationship with Have you talked to
Chris Harrison at all after everything that happened.

Speaker 4 (52:42):
Yeah, we're in the same fantasy league. We're in the
same football fantasy league, so there's there. There have been
multiple conversations there and we have mutual friends. One of
my one of my really good friends, Jack Arnold, who's
a chef, always face sounds me when he's with them,
So there's no bad blood. Like I understand everyone has

(53:03):
a job to do, and I, uh, you know, the
way I look at everything in life is that I
every single day in my life, I make horrible decisions
like I, you know, might oversleep and I'll miss a

(53:23):
train and I'll be late to something that has a
ripple effect to something else. I'll get in a conversation,
I'll say something to Rachel that I wish I could
take back, and I'm given forgiveness for that, and so
if I'm given forgiveness for the things that I do
and wrong people like who am I not to forgive
people who I think have had that similar experience. So,

(53:48):
I mean, that's my healthy approach to dealing with anything
with anybody that you know there might be bad blood.
It's like, I'm not going to hold a grudge because
you know, God doesn't hold a grudge for the things
that I've done. And when I look, when I take
that approach towards anything, then again, it promotes the positivity
and I don't have time to dwell on the hate
because it just it's it's not hurting that person, it's

(54:10):
hurting you. You know, You're just it's just it's not
worth it.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
You're in a fantasy league with them now. But it
did take a while, did it? Or were there some
early uncomfortable first few conversations or was it kind of
squashed early on?

Speaker 4 (54:23):
It wasn't like like it wasn't even addressed. It wasn't
even like like like from a in the fantasy I
use the fantasy league as like a like if you
had disdain or ill will for someone like I'm sure
you probably wouldn't be in the same fantasy leagueism. But
I say that to say that, like our fantasy league

(54:46):
is about fantasy football, it's not about like the Matt
and Chris relationship. But there we had. We had a
conversation after uh, after everything's take place, after everything took place,
and it was it was a good conversation. It wasn't
I did. I didn't screen his call, like if he
text me, I'll respond, But yeah, there was no there's

(55:07):
no hard feelings for for anybody, just based off of
the way that I look at life and the grace
I'm shown.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
So do you think he should have left the Bachelor?
He should have lost his job over that?

Speaker 4 (55:26):
I don't know, Like it's I don't I don't know
who who I am to make that judgment call. I
obviously didn't make it because you know he was, he
was there after whatever we went through happened. But I
don't wish. I don't wish anybody. I don't wish. I

(55:47):
don't wish any harm on anybody. And when you have
a situation like that, like what is the right way
to go forward? Like who who who is to make
that judgment call? So for him, I mean, whoever handled
the situation handled it? How they best all fit, and

(56:08):
the show goes on. I mean the show would and
will be there long after he's gone, long after I'm gone.
So I mean maybe something that was gonna happen inevitably
just was sped up. And from what I've seen from
him and his relationship with Lauren and what he's doing now,
like it was a chapter. Like everything in life is

(56:30):
a chapter, and I think it's dangerous when you make
something that's meant to be a chapter your whole book.
So yeah, I mean I don't know, do I think
it was the right thing? Like, Thank goodness, I don't
have to make any type of calls like that because
you know, I probably make things based more off emotion
than like how things should go. But yeah, like I said,

(56:55):
the show will be here long after us, and some
thing that would have happened inevitably just happened sooner.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
So you watching the current season?

Speaker 4 (57:04):
Uh there's no, no, no, but like like not because
I don't want to watch it, Like well, I just
like I'm watching like True Detective, Like there's like season four,
like like what's her name?

Speaker 3 (57:24):
Yeah, we were just talking about that show.

Speaker 4 (57:27):
I've this is a very weird reason to have a
crush on somebody, but I had a crush on Jeddie
Foster since like Silence of the Lamps.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
Such a good movie. Yes, yeah, so like Larry's yeah agent.

Speaker 4 (57:39):
So when she was gonna be on Detective season four,
Like that's I mean, I'm watching TV. But and the
thing about being a former uh lead you you get
all the tea anyways, Like like I know what happened
and what's gonna happen because I have friends who are producers.
I have friends who you know, you're you're connected, so

(58:01):
I know what's going on.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
You already know how it ends everything.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
I think you know how this season ends. Yeah, don't
tell me that, because it's our job to get it
out of you, just as much.

Speaker 4 (58:12):
As anybody else knows. Like, like who knows if it's true?
Like from people I've talked to people who were there,
it's like, you know, it could be a lie, but
it's it's it was information that was offered up. You know.
It's it's not like I was like, yeah, yeah, like,
so tell me how it is.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
Wait, so what you're talking about is already out there? No, okay,
so you know the post stuff and yeah, yeah, the
piece together that it was probably this because he knows
that you actually know right now who what happens at
the end of this season with The Bachelor.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
Yes, based off what I was told from people who
would know. Though, from people who would know, I have
a question.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
Did you have you and Rachel together sat down and
watched your season up The Bachelor?

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (59:00):
No, I don't think we'll ever watch the season together.
And just because like it's it's a it's a weird
dynamic because you're with that person now and you weren't
together when you were making.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
You were kissing other women.

Speaker 4 (59:16):
You were kissing other women. But like I I am
not ashamed of anything that I did or said on
the show. And I think that I think one of
the reasons why Rachel respects me as much as she
does is the consistency and my messaging and my actions
from the moment that we met to where we are now,
because it hasn't changed. Yeah, you know, I wasn't and

(59:40):
to each his own like, but I wasn't, you know,
telling a lot of multiple people I loved them and
just taking this opportunity to like sleep with a bunch
of people, Like that's just not who I am. And
does that happen on the show? Yeah, And like again
like if that's how you want to go about finding
the person you want to be with, like, I'm not
stopping them because it gets people to that point, but
it's not something I needed to do.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Can you be in love with I mean, if you've
watched any of these shows or any of these seasons,
the question I think a lot of people ask, can
you be in love with more than one person at
the same time?

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
I think you can lust more than one person at
one time. But when you really love somebody and you've
been in love, like, there's just certain things you wouldn't
do to that person. So I think if you really
love somebody, like if I'm telling you I love you
and then I'm going to sleep with somebody else, Like
I don't personally think that's love, but again in the
figuring out process, like some people have to do certain

(01:00:32):
things to figure out who they want to be with.
And I'm not going to knock that because I'm not
the love doctor.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Well, and I asked if you and Rachel watched your
season together, but have you individually and has she individually
watched the season as it was released to the public.

Speaker 4 (01:00:47):
You know, it's funny. I think that like when the
show's coming out, it's like so exciting, So like you're
having these watch parties and like all her girlfriends are
over and like, oh my gosh, like you're kind of
have a limo. And then like see in week two
and then and then it starts to get serious and
it's like, you know, the watch parties kind of end.
You know, you're not like tweeting about the episode. It's

(01:01:08):
like you might have seen a very serious conversation with
somebody else. So it's it's it gets weird. Yeah, it
gets weird.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
It's hard. I mean, I'm imagining how hard that would be.

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
Yeah, So I mean, and but the thing with Rachel
and I is she knew where I stood, like I
and I told her. I gave her confirmation on my
feelings for her. And but she could have taken that
any way she wanted. She could have been like, oh,
it's probably telling everybody that and that's just not who
I am. I'm sure people, you know, tell a bunch
of people that, Yo, this is us, this is us,

(01:01:38):
this is us. But you know, she took my word
at face value, and like that trust is like built
the love and admiration I have for her because I'm like,
she for no, like there's no reason why she should
have trusted anything I said.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
She didn't really know me like seven hours.

Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
Right until yeah, maybe less, but like she she believed
me and like trusted me in like that meant a lot.
Like she's like okay, like never faltered from it. I'm
just like, dang, she's a real one.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
It's amazing to hear you because again, we have obviously
robes and I have been through a lot when it
comes to relationships and it comes to marriages and being
in a relationship publicly and in a racial relationship, all this.
But you are sitting here talking about Rachel in such
a way, in a loving way that we always say
this love relationships, marriage, It's messy sometimes. And to see

(01:02:39):
you sitting here at this point, this happy and speaking
this publicly and strongly about her, given that, yeah, you
had to go on a show, you were the first
black bachelor, Your season went the hell because of controversy
in a lot of ways. You break up with her,
you get back with her, but that is messy as hell.

(01:03:00):
But you're sitting here happy at this end, and I
don't know how any of us could not be happy
or take you with your face value that you love her,
And it's just another great example of is just messy
and ugly sometimes to get to this point.

Speaker 3 (01:03:17):
What a journey man.

Speaker 4 (01:03:18):
Yeah, she's a rider, like she's There's this trend for
a while where people were telling their they were coming home,
and the parents were coming home to their kids, and
they were telling their kid like, let's say, your little
son's name is Billy. You're coming, like Billy, Like this
little kid down the street picked a fight with me.
The parents said like, I need you to go beat
this kid up. And Billy gets up, He's all right,
let's go. And like these little kids were like riding

(01:03:38):
out for their parents. And I feel like, Rachel, if
there was anything I ever need, like Rachel, I need
you to do, like not to beat somebody up, but
like there's just nothing that like there's just so much
love there that like she would we would do anything
for each other.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Am I the only one that he was telling that story.
All I saw now was a like a little baby
Rachel going out and beating somebody up.

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
Well, can you?

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
I mean? And I don't want to harp on the negative,
but I think it's important to recognize where you've been
to figure out or at least the perspective of where
you are.

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
What was the lowest moment.

Speaker 4 (01:04:15):
MM Probably when I thought that I would never talk
to her again. And that was like right after the
show when we broke up, because I felt like it
was the right thing to do. I'm like, yeah, guys,
like everyone out there like we did it, like I
did it, like I did it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
You felt pressure to break up with her?

Speaker 4 (01:04:36):
I just felt like I felt like there was something
that that conversation we had at the end of the
show on like the AFR man that was tough. That
was like I don't think we were together at that
Oh yeah, we weren't together.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
Weren't together, right, Yeah, you guys were, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:04:53):
We went. That was like the first time I'd seen
him forever, and like you're just like forced to have
this like conversation with someone that you like still love
you're not together because like you don't really know if
you know each other because like that seven hours, it's
like like I think I know you, Like I think
what we experienced was real, but like is it real?
Like are you really this much of a rider, like,

(01:05:15):
are you really this down for me? And like that
takes years to figure out? Like from my experience, it
took us almost ten. Yeah, Like I mean, so that
was like kind of what I was trying to figure out.
I'm like, do I like, is she who she says
she is? And once I figured out that she was
and she never faltered off that, I'm like, man, I

(01:05:36):
can't let this go. But yeah, that was the craziest thing.
It's like trying to discern what is and isn't real,
and it was she was real the whole time.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
So yeah, and you can knock me down for this,
but I I'm trying to think if we've talked about
this privately before I say this here. No, No, it's
not a bad thing, but it does play a role.
It played a role with us recently. But so much
of what was coming at you and coming at her
at the time had to do with her doing something
that many viewed as racist. And here you are, as

(01:06:06):
a black man being celebrated, applauded, and we all applauded
the show, even like all right, you got a brother
in there. That's great, And what did you feel even
if it was perceived from the black community. It say, Wow,
everybody loves me, They're down for me, and now I
love this girl. I think I love this girl. This
is something special with her that they are looking at

(01:06:28):
her now, Like how dare How could I as a
black man be with a woman that everybody thinks is
this thing? How did you deal with that in your
own head? Like I said, some of it might have
been perceived, but some of it was actually out there
as well.

Speaker 4 (01:06:43):
Yeah, this is like the most like politically incorrect way
to draw a comparison. But I recently watched the OJ
documentary and which was I mean, the way that the
story was I want alive during that time, so I
had no idea and I'm learning in real time, and

(01:07:04):
as I watched the trial play on and the verdict
come out, and this is my interpretation of it, it
was less about the verdict and it was more about
black first white. And so when I think about our relationship,
it was more. It was less about the love and
it was more about the black first white. And when

(01:07:27):
when that's the case, like you lose sight of what's important.
I don't know if that answers the question, but that's
I get it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
I get it. We were alive for the trial. In fact,
I was in a newsroom.

Speaker 4 (01:07:38):
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
That's how an age gaft. I was in a classroom. Still,
that was my first job. It was my first job
in college. Oh, my first year in high school. Yeah,
stop it, that is not true. That is not true.
But I remember being in my in in my first newsroom.
I think I was twenty two and watching Oprah and

(01:08:00):
watching the black reaction versus the white reaction when it
all it was, it's funny. I get what you're saying.
I totally get what you're saying. It makes sense. I
want to also ask about we can't not ask about
your mom. I mean, your mom joined that was crazy
Bachelor Nation.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
What was that like for you? As her son?

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (01:08:18):
I was happy for you know, I'm pro like anybody
being happy. So like this opportunity made her really excited
about something I'd never seen her excited about and dating
and getting back out there like and I say never,
but like in a long time, because the order you get,
the prospects dry up and it's not impossible, but like

(01:08:41):
it's tough. I can't imagine and I can't imagine what
mom goes through so like to see the opportunity for
that for her. I was stoked. I was I was
really happy.

Speaker 3 (01:08:49):
Is she bag out? Is she dating?

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
Now?

Speaker 4 (01:08:51):
She is? She is out there, Yeah, she's she is dating.

Speaker 3 (01:08:54):
So she on like dating apps.

Speaker 4 (01:08:56):
I don't think she knows how to use any apps.

Speaker 3 (01:08:59):
How does she meet people that she goes on? Reality shows?

Speaker 4 (01:09:02):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:09:02):
Yeah, yeah, there's a.

Speaker 4 (01:09:05):
Well she This is gonna sound so silly.

Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
I know how you preface so much so many of
your stories.

Speaker 4 (01:09:11):
Well, I about to say it. I'm just like what
I was going to say is that like there's oh
my gosh, there's a pickleball club that she's in. Now cool,
So like there's like, you know, you do stuff like that.
And like I'm not saying pickleballs for like retirees, but
I love pickleball. But yeah, she does stuff like that.
There's like there's she goes to shows, comedy, wine nights,

(01:09:35):
like just events where you can meet people and not
all of them are singles, but like you know, if
someone meets my mom and they know she's single, they're like, oh,
like I know blonde who uh you know, they try
to like love, they try to do matchmakers. So I'm
like the I tell my mom, she's so comfortable in
her in her home, like and her routine. But the

(01:09:55):
more you put yourself out there, I mean you can't.
Opportunity just doesn't come to you. Like you've got to
present yourself so that things can come your way. So
the more she goes out there.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
And you knew what happened on the show before everybody,
So what did you think when you did?

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
You?

Speaker 3 (01:10:11):
I assume you watched it.

Speaker 4 (01:10:12):
No, I didn't watch.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
You didn't really you didn't watch?

Speaker 4 (01:10:14):
I mean I was bummed, Like I knew it was
gonna happen, so like, yeah, I was sad. She called
me and she was really upset. And but I mean
it's you know, it's it's that's the game, like it's
a it wasn't you know, the Patty James Show. It
was you know, it's the Bat, it's the Golden Bachelor.
So if it wasn't who she ended up with, it
wasn't who she was supposed to be with.

Speaker 3 (01:10:35):
Did she watch it?

Speaker 4 (01:10:36):
She freaking watched every episode?

Speaker 3 (01:10:40):
YEA, loved it. Did she like the outcome? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:10:48):
I mean I think that the outcome was right, But
I think that she would have liked a little bit
more time to get to that. Yeah, you know what
I mean, Like, I think that ultimately it wasn't the
person she was supposed to be with, But if there
was time to explore that relationship, I think she would
have had a little bit more of like a like anybody.
I don't think anybody wants to go home in the
first night.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
No, she didn't roll like Hassan. She needs more seven
hours to figure it out. What would you say is
the current health of the Bachelor Bachelor at franchise? Given that,
I mean they were controversies or ratings have been up
and down, but now the new season seems like the
ratings are solid. The Golden Bachelor was huge. Yeah, but
what do you think the health of the franchise is

(01:11:27):
right now?

Speaker 4 (01:11:28):
I just think that this has nothing to do with
The Bachelor or the Golden Bachelor, the Bachelor or Bachelor
in Paradise. There's just so much competition. It's like asking,
like what do I think about Red Bull. It's like,
you know, they've got Celsius, They've got freaking like, there's
so many it's saturated, Like you got Love Island. Love
is blind too hot to handle? Like there's a million

(01:11:49):
places that you can go to get that fix. Whereas
back in the day the Bachelor and you know, the
offsets of it were.

Speaker 1 (01:11:56):
It but for the lack of diversity that they try
to now improve, or I guess they got the whole
situation worked out now for diversifying the contestants, for for
all the changes, I guess the tweaks they tried to make.

Speaker 4 (01:12:07):
So just looking at the Bachelor, not looking at the pool.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
Of well, I don't even know about Bachelor in Paradise,
but I guess I'm just about Bachelor and Bachelorette the.

Speaker 3 (01:12:17):
Favorite. We'll get on that today.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
But you know, for the health and for what it
went through taking some public hits, if you will.

Speaker 3 (01:12:26):
Over the years.

Speaker 4 (01:12:26):
I think that people like to romanticize things. I think
people romanticize, you know, the Yankees when by Ruth Paid
played for him. I think that people romanticize the Bulls
when Michael Jordan played for him. But the reality is,
you know, things change, people change, and your options change.
So I think that people romanticize the time where they

(01:12:49):
got a certain they felt a certain feeling from watching
the show that you know, you can get that so
many different places now, like things change, and like as
things change, your perspective has to change. So I think
that it's fine. Like I I like as as someone
who like is a creative and like tries to think

(01:13:10):
of you know, fun and enticing ways to to showcase
food or whatever. Like, I think that, like there's nothing
that I think could spice it up anymore than there.
I think they're doing a great job. Like, I think
it just stinks that, like nowadays, they have competition with
all these streaming services and all these like other shows

(01:13:31):
that offer, you know, whatever you want.

Speaker 3 (01:13:35):
Would you ever host it or want to host it?

Speaker 4 (01:13:37):
Even whatever? I want to host The Bachelor, I wouldn't.
I don't think i'd want to host The Bachelor. I
think that's an amazing opportunity. I would love to host
something like I love interacting with people and having conversations.

Speaker 3 (01:13:54):
Why not The Bachelor?

Speaker 4 (01:13:55):
Though? The Bachelor, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:13:59):
I we love the pauses. Mad James is like, I
cannot tell a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:14:08):
Yeah, I'm just I have to.

Speaker 3 (01:14:10):
Be honest and figure out how to best land this well.

Speaker 4 (01:14:14):
I want to be honest. I'm I just I just
don't see it like what I want to host something
absolutely family feud, like a eating contest, but like like
there's something, there's a there's a connotation that comes with
hosting that, and you put yourself in that, you put
yourself back in that atmosphere. And that's the thing I

(01:14:35):
was trying to say that. That was one of the
things I was trying to avoid is being in a
space that you know is kind of toxic. And I
think that if you roll around in that space that
you know, you you open yourself up to that because
you have to be you have to have an opinion
on things, and like it just.

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):
When you roll around in the mud, you get dirty.

Speaker 4 (01:14:58):
Yeah I don't, No, I I.

Speaker 3 (01:15:02):
Why is that so funny?

Speaker 1 (01:15:04):
Tell you all the time. You're the funniest person I know,
you really are.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
Oh, what what's next for you? We I love following
your adventures. You're a world traveler and you certainly like
to eat. What's next for you?

Speaker 4 (01:15:20):
Where do I start? I've I love running. It's just
been like my peace place. Uh and so yeah, I'm
gonna try to run the London. Well, I'm going to
run the London.

Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
May I think you're gonna Yeah, You're gonna probably succeed at.

Speaker 4 (01:15:32):
That I'm gonna run the London Marathon. I'm gonna try
to get Rachel into a race. We're gonna get her
in a five k Yeah, down in Disney, Disney five k.
It's a nice she loves Disney, so like any way
to like entice her into you know, not being mad
about me buying so many running shoes, Like, we figure
out a way that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
We would love to run with you down at that
five k. I don't think we're allowed on the parks
crowns anymore. I don't think we'll check, well, right last
week check if we weren't. But we'll pick you in
some cool Disney costume we can all.

Speaker 4 (01:16:02):
I'll be frozened, missing crediblej can throw a beard?

Speaker 3 (01:16:08):
Is there another one? That's the other one?

Speaker 4 (01:16:09):
I could be this is hilarious, you could be this
is the princess and the frog. What's the bad guy's name? Nice?

Speaker 3 (01:16:19):
Let's not finish this.

Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
That's not.

Speaker 5 (01:16:24):
He's a good looking brother, dude, I got no problem
just trying to label me even as a cartoon villain,
stale man, many of us you know what you know
what you take proa.

Speaker 3 (01:16:41):
Wait, London marathon? What marathon? Will that be for you.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
How many of you run?

Speaker 4 (01:16:45):
That'll be London Marathon will be like number six. But
I'm trying to get I'm gonna do all the major
Oh I.

Speaker 3 (01:16:53):
Wanted to do that too.

Speaker 4 (01:16:54):
We can still do all right?

Speaker 3 (01:16:55):
Yeah, what have you done? Major wise?

Speaker 4 (01:16:57):
Boston, Chicago, New York? But I want to hit sub
three and all of them, so like, oh, yeah, I
gotta go for it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
I gotta go for Boston is the one that scares me.
That's the one I'm going to leave till the end.
I've done Chicago, New York, Berlin.

Speaker 3 (01:17:11):
Yeah, I've done the flat one yeah, and then the home.
I'm so afraid of Boston.

Speaker 4 (01:17:16):
You just trained the hills and you'll be fine. Just
do the lap in Central Park.

Speaker 1 (01:17:19):
Point you get London. What do you got so Tokyo
and what's have Tokyo? Berlin, Berlin in London.

Speaker 4 (01:17:24):
But I gotta do Chicago, Boston and New York again
because I have to get under three. You don't have to,
but I need to.

Speaker 3 (01:17:29):
Oh my god, you want to?

Speaker 4 (01:17:30):
I'm yeah. But then I've been doing a lot of
other fun stuff too. I I got to host a
bunch of different things this year, and that was a
lot of fun, Just like getting to pick other people's
brain and sit across from people that I respect and
have important conversations and get people to think about an
important topic differently than how they came into it. So, yeah,

(01:17:52):
that's fun.

Speaker 3 (01:17:54):
What here's my favorite thing.

Speaker 2 (01:17:55):
We've joked about this, but when you're in broadcasting, usually
one of the questions that producers have you act, oh God,
somebody here, is there anything that we didn't ask you
that you'd like to let the listeners know?

Speaker 4 (01:18:09):
Oh? Yeah, that's great. I mean, honestly, all I'd have
you already. We tackled this already. But the thing that
I would want to leave people with is just to
have grace on themselves and on others, because life is
hard and people are good, and we make mistakes, and
if you are perfect, then this doesn't apply to you.

Speaker 3 (01:18:32):
Ha ha.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
Isn't it something we are We are so quick to
judge everybody else by their worst mistakes, and we judge
ourselves by our best intentions. And we've learned this more
and more over the past year, and it's funny, and
mattaw I have said it to you privately tons of times,
and this is an opportunity I think it might be
the first opportunity I've had to say it to you
in a public format. But it meant everything to me.

(01:18:56):
You meant everything to me in the worst stretch of
my personal life professional life, right even to get that message,
to get even when I didn't respond to you, to
get a follow up, to have you just say how
you doing or I'm here?

Speaker 3 (01:19:13):
You didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:19:14):
You didn't say, hey, what do you need? You know,
what can I bring you? I want to do this.
You didn't even give me some Bible quote right, just
I'm here. That meant everything to me at that time.
And I know you could relate to a lot of
what was going on with me and was going on
with Robes at the time. Brother, it meant everything. So
I encourage you and anybody else listening, man, pick up

(01:19:37):
your phone right this moment and check on somebody just
to stay hi, who's going through? But brother, it meant
everything to me and one of the worst parts of
my life that you, well I wasn't that close to
even at the time. I don't, yeah, but to be
there and show up for me was everything. So this
is love you, brother, and I'm always rooting for you
and rooting for Rachel and whatever comes.

Speaker 3 (01:19:58):
Man, but you've it meant a.

Speaker 4 (01:20:00):
I love you too, bro. I appreciate you having me.
Thank you, Amy, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:20:04):
Oh you have that look on your face.

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
Well you know I was gonna even say, like, thank
you just as TJ's girlfriend, which I know you love
that word, but thank you for being there for him
because I could be there for him obviously as his girlfriend,
but to have the support he needed from other people
and especially from someone like you, was everything. Like it
really did make a huge difference. And yeah, you showed
up at my birthday party.

Speaker 4 (01:20:28):
I was going to say it's I was going to
say that like it takes it's it's both ways though,
because like TJ could have said, like, man, forget this guy,
because like you know, in that moment, you don't want
to talk to anybody, But you guys invited me in,
and I appreciate you because I've gotten to see I've
gotten to experience your life and how rich it is.
So it's been it's been amazing. Like anytime I get

(01:20:48):
invited over to y'all's apartment, I will accept that invitation
with open arms because I'm going to be around friends
and family.

Speaker 3 (01:20:55):
Still have that bottle of tequila.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
You still have that cover from the Mary. You showed up.
You showed up after the marathon.

Speaker 4 (01:21:03):
I came. I came after the marathon in my cape.

Speaker 1 (01:21:05):
Yeah mind you. This was like seven hours after the race.
He still ain't been in the shower. He's show up.

Speaker 4 (01:21:12):
You know when when you run the marathon. I if
you run the marathon, I'll wear that metal for a week.
I'm like, I ran the marathon.

Speaker 3 (01:21:21):
You're a superhero.

Speaker 4 (01:21:22):
Oh this Cape? Oh yeah, I just ran the marathon.

Speaker 3 (01:21:27):
Doesn't it feel good?

Speaker 4 (01:21:28):
Though?

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):
Afterwards you're walking through the streets of New York and
everyone's like congratulations, and you're like, hell yeah, thank you
very much because I earned this.

Speaker 4 (01:21:33):
It's the best Rachel. Rachel was ready to just like
light that Cape on fire just because anybody, no one
was even saying it that walk like, oh me ran
the marathon, thank you. I was playing into it at
that point.

Speaker 1 (01:21:47):
Man. We are We absolutely will have you back on.
We'll get We'll get Rachel in here at some point.

Speaker 4 (01:21:53):
You gotta get her.

Speaker 1 (01:21:53):
I So we'll get her in here minus you, and
we'll bring y'all together and see how the stories match
up at some point.

Speaker 4 (01:22:00):
Dang, that would be the truth test if I was
fibbing or not.

Speaker 1 (01:22:05):
Brother, appreciate everything, and folks, you know where to find Matt,
you know where to find Robot, you know where to
find me. We're all on TikTok all on Instagram. You
can find the show at Amy and TJ podcast. But
like you said, spread some love, check all those you love,
and we'll see you back here next time.