September 10, 2024 • 31 mins
Amy & T.J. are joined by Mayci Neely and Taylor Frankie Paul from Hulu’s hit show "Secret Wives of Mormon Lives", and they are spilling all the behind the scenes drama fans haven’t seen.
Who’s in the mud with Whitney and why are our guests the only two from the cast that haven’t unfollowed her on social yet?
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Taylor, folks, got a question for you on this episode today.
Are you team Taylor? Are you team Whitney? And if
you don't know what I'm talking about right now, you
are out of the loop or under a rock. Tayler folks,
Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes. Sitting
next to me, Robes, we have talked to several people
the last couple days we said we are interviewing the
women from the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. What has
(00:27):
been the reaction we've gotten from everybody? Universal?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
My gosh, I'm obsessed.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
And you know this show has been out not even
for a full week, correct, and it's already it's number
one on Hulu.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Everyone's talking about it.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I was excited to have a reason for research purposes
to have to watch the show, and that's all I've
been doing for us.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
In all seriousness, Were you really trying to find a
way to make an excuse for why you needed to
watch it because you felt like I should I shouldn't
be watching.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
That type of thing, aren't you know? The answer is absolutely.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I watched ninety eight Beyonce Married at First Sight, Love Island,
Love is Blind Full disclosure.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I love some reality.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So let's be honest, full disclosure here. I watch plenty
of those with you. This one is different for a
very specific reason that we'll get into. But right now
we need to welcome into the studio folks. They are
sitting right here in front of us, two ladies who
are looking for tickets to the Book of Mormons. If
you have them on Broadway, they would appreciate. With Taylor Freaky,
(01:33):
Paul Macy Neely, Welcome, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Welcome to guys.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
You guys are entertaining to listen to. I love your voices.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
You're the news background.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Oh okay, yes, decades of training yea, So okay, with
that background, you know we're journalist.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
We're going to get right to it. So tell us
season two. Is it confirmed? Is it happening?
Speaker 5 (01:55):
It's not confirmed, but I have a feeling.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
We hope, yeah, but we don't know anything.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Do you know when you'll know? Have they given you
an idea?
Speaker 6 (02:03):
If I think if it's happening, it'll be here very soon,
I think, But I guess, I guess we're not the
ones who called the shots so real we.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Know good hell, well, this thing is getting renewed. Is
there anybody show a hands in the room who thinks
this is not? Of course is getting renewed, but it's
a congratulations. And the question what has life looked like since?
And again it's only what you say of.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Six days or something. It's like four, Oh yeah, well
was it Friday?
Speaker 5 (02:28):
Came out Friday?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Wow, as we sit here, you're only a few days in.
How has life changed even in the matter of days
since the show hit who it.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Hasn't hit us?
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Yeah, it like hasn't hit us yet.
Speaker 7 (02:39):
I think that what's changed, just like all the comments
and all the buzz, Like if we open social media,
all we see is ourselves, which is it like normal?
So I feel like that's the weirdest part is like
seeing all the buzz and I'm like, whoa, Like this
is bigger than we anticipatedor I ever thought it would be.
Speaker 6 (02:54):
Yeah, I mean I think going places too, I don't
think we kind of knew, like because in our circle
we're kind of like, well no, i'd say, like people
know us in Utah, you know, but we're going to
the airport now and like everyone's stopping, Hey can we
get a picture? And it's so weird it's like it's different.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
I don't know nationwide. Yeah, it's like weird.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah, have you all watched the episodes back?
Speaker 5 (03:14):
I have? She has it?
Speaker 6 (03:16):
No, I get it came out Friday I spent so
I have part time with my kids, and so I
got them back for those three days before I left town.
So I was like, I'm not gonna sit and watch
the show. Obviously, don't want it on my screen with
my kids watching. It's like my backstory. I didn't want it.
So no, I have not gone to it. I know
people don't blame me, like you definitely have seen it.
I was like, I literally haven't.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Okay, ma see, So what do you think having seen.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
It it is? I mean it's pretty good.
Speaker 7 (03:41):
I think it's hard when you watch yourself in it,
You're like, no, it's like a whole movie, Like it
doesn't seem like a real like production, right because I
just see me and my friends on the like on
the TV screen. But I mean it was juicy for sure,
Like it was crazy to see how much was cut
out compared to how much we filmed.
Speaker 6 (03:56):
Too.
Speaker 7 (03:56):
I was like, this almost seems like a highlight reel
of what we filmed because we filmed so.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Much or a low light in some moments.
Speaker 7 (04:03):
Oh yeah, for sure, true, Yeah, I'm curious.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
I don't know how much people want to give away
about what ends up happening. And I actually read ahead
because it is juicy. That is probably a very light
word to use, but everyone knows if you've got girl groups.
I was talking to TJ about it. You know, it
gets messy and it gets difficult sometimes we have all
these different personalities. But I know that there were problems
(04:35):
going into the show based on what happened. And we'll
get into the backstory of this, But did this do
further damage being on this show to already thinly put
together friendships that were barely hanging on? Did this destroy
friendships doing the show?
Speaker 5 (04:51):
Yes and no.
Speaker 7 (04:52):
I should say, like some of us got closer and
then some of us didn't.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
And I think there's like a bit of a divide
right now.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
For sure, Why are you giggling?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
You?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
You immediately reacted to what she said.
Speaker 6 (05:02):
Why, it's just funny, Like I guess now the girls
have seen it. We were told, yeah, you're gonna have
broken friendships. Oh like really, and then there has been Yeah.
Speaker 7 (05:11):
Yeah, it's starting to happen right now behind the scenes,
so it's yeah, there's like drama going on behind the
scenes with everything, So it's.
Speaker 6 (05:19):
Funny, like it's just the people you don't think. Sometimes
it's just like, oh.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yes, is it irreparable though irreparable harm that's being done
or just things that are going to take time to get.
Speaker 6 (05:29):
Past and for me, things that will take time. Like
I feel like I'm pretty forgive.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
I haven't seen the show, so I don't know if.
Speaker 6 (05:37):
I'm forgiving this show, but like I feel like I'm
pretty forgiving, especially with girlfriends, and so I feel like
if any damage is done, I I'll be able to forgive.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
But we'll just be straight up Whitney right now, you know,
it's going through the mud.
Speaker 6 (05:47):
And so I feel like I was saying this earlier,
like I'll always she helped me in a very dark place,
like when I was at my lowest, and so even
though she might not be a fan of me, like
I'm gonna be here for her during this cause I've
been her exact spot and so I just feel for
her at this point.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Is it true that everyone has unfollowed Whitney.
Speaker 6 (06:05):
I mean I haven't, but I don't know if she's
in follow me, but I think all the other girls
haven't followed her.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Yeah, And I don't know. It's hard.
Speaker 6 (06:13):
Like I know they're like very like upset and they
have all these feelings into they can. But I feel
like I just have been in Whitney's spot of that
villain and and it's like out of hurt too, and
she's reacting and I think it's out of she's just hurting,
and so like for me, I feel for I'm like
I see myself and so I'm not going to add
to that.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
I'm only going to be here for her.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Have you all reached out? Have you all tried? Is
there any communication with Whitney right now?
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Yeah, I sul I'm here for you no matter what.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
But is there back and forth? It's just kind of
one way right now.
Speaker 7 (06:39):
I mean I reached out to her and she han't respond,
but I guess she's responding.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
To Taylor, And she responded to you, Taylor.
Speaker 6 (06:44):
She did, and she like kind of just broke her
feelings down and her reasonings. And I haven't responded because
we've been on the go, and so I know to
like take a minute to read all of it and
then respond.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
It's interesting you point out and we have a little
history and knowing what it feels like when people when
they're listening to a story, and obviously there are lots
of different sides, but people want a good guy, and
they want a bad guy or a villain and a saint,
a saint in a sinner. I think one of the
episodes is even called Saints and Sinners. Have you like,
I feel like, basically somehow you've never actually been in
(07:17):
the bad guy situation.
Speaker 7 (07:19):
As if yet not Yeah, I mean towards the end
like kind of can go both ways, and like that
kind of makes me look a little bit like a villain.
At least when I watched it, I was like, uh oh,
but like that wasn't the intention. They did kind a
scene where I asked Taylor's permission to call this person
who's like involved in Dakota's past, but they cut that out,
so I was like, dang, that actually kind of makes
me look a little bit like a villain.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
But if they saw it wasn't cut.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
She'll no, I'm just kidding. She's a good friend. So
it's like hard when you're like.
Speaker 7 (07:47):
I wouldn't say I'm like a natural villain, Like I
would just say, like I'm not how many I'm perfect.
I'm just kidding, No, But I I just like love
my friendships and I hate when people, Yeah, and I
hate when people are so hot I cold, Michael, I
can't we all just like be friends?
Speaker 5 (08:01):
Like how hard is it to get along? Like I
don't understand.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Apparently it's really hard.
Speaker 7 (08:04):
Yeah, And I understand because like you have eight strong,
like minded women, like we all are like opinionated, like granted,
like potified by we're on a reality show together, because
so there's bound to be conflicts, right, like this is natural.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
And please know when I asked, we're only three episodes in.
Let you know that. So when I asked, I said, Okay,
I know who're interview. Got Taylor, got Mace, and I
came in that like came around the corner. I said, Okay,
which one is Macy's Again, she said She's Switzerland. That's
how she writes.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I've been able to go back and forth with two
different groups at least. I think we're on episode four.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
By the way, But she suggested that that might have
been stressful or difficult for you. When even I opened
this episode talking about Team Whitney, your team, it seems
like everybody needs to take a split outside and you
are going back and forth, and what does that continue
with you now? The stress of having to try to
manage kind of keep the whole team together in a
certain way.
Speaker 7 (08:59):
I feel like right now now I'm not I'm not
even thinking about it when there's too much going on.
But during the show, I feel like it is the
biggest stressor for me. Was like I feel like I
was always in between two groups and it was hard
because now I feel like I'm seeing online like on
social medio, people are being like, oh, she's playing both sides,
like she's the smart one, She's the starting the problem.
Like actually no, I was stuck between two sides and
(09:20):
it was so stressful because like then when bigore are
they saying about me? And I'm like, I'm not saying anything,
and the what are you saying? I'm like, I don't
want to say anything, Like I just want to be
friends with everybody, and like apparently that's an issue and
I don't, like, yeah, that's like a problem.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
People want people to take sides. I think a lot
of times.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Taylor, I want to ask you because how this all began.
Obviously I learned a lot about what is it soft
swinging is. We don't need to go into all of
that because I think that's been heavily discussed. However, I
did have a question because we started watching the episode
(09:57):
and it starts out right after all of that, and
presumably when you all got the show the TikTok that
went viral, you had been accused of cheating or being
a man or a husband stealer, and you said, hold up,
everyone was involved or a lot of folks were involved
in this soft swinging, so it was agreed upon consensual
(10:20):
mutual so I'm not the bad guy here. But then,
of course many of your friends and the friend group
felt like they then had to defend themselves say hey,
it wasn't me. There are a lot of questions swirling around.
Is anyone who was on the show now a part
of that group without naming names? Or are these all
people we haven't heard or seen.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Before the second one?
Speaker 6 (10:38):
So yeah, no one was involved on the cast shown now, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Do you feel like you made that clear?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
And that maybe that's why some of the girls were
upset that they didn't feel like their names were cleared
by you.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Now I feel like it's very cleared.
Speaker 6 (10:54):
I don't know how much they show on the show,
but I think I've cleared that up now, and especially
in the interviews as well, like we've all said, know,
like none of the cast is like involved other than myself. Yeah,
So I feel like that's clear, But I don't know.
Is there still questions you think out there?
Speaker 7 (11:07):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Absolutely really because anything anybody told me about this show
about Mormon wives, Oh they're swinging in them? Did you
not know?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
And thinking who's denying it? They just don't want to
admit it? I think he's Here's it's hard.
Speaker 6 (11:24):
It is because we are in like the TikTok world
and that's our jobs and we do that and there's
mom talk, right, So you have people that were involved
in there and then they're not on the show. So
it is very like people cannot connect. But I think
if you have been there and you did the research,
it's not hard to pinpoint who is and who is.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
I haven't done.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
We have more homework, so thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Some further interviews, But we started out. You started out
thinking you were pregnant, you had I believe a miscarriage,
and then almost a full year goes by before you
start filming again. Yeah, obviously you were arrested. Anybody can
do that Google search as well. What happened to you
during that year and what made you decide to start
(12:10):
filming again?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Give us fill in that gap for us.
Speaker 6 (12:14):
Yeah, I feel like it was like a transformative time.
I would say, I feel like when I started to film,
you can see it clear as day. I'm I know
you haven't like finished, but I'm a different person in
episode one, And then I think, I, you know, I'm
a completely different person going forward in the show, you know,
And so I feel like in the beginning would have
(12:35):
been chaos if we kept filming. I can't imagine the
show because I was like, you can just tell them
like I don't care.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
I don't give an f about anything or anyone.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
I was just in a hurting phase and I just
like was so angry, I think, and then I've yeah,
I was dating dakote, I went through the miscarre or
the ectopic pregnancy. So I feel like I got softer
within time and like more empathetic towards others and like
how they're feeling, because in the beginning, I'm like, I
don't care why anyone's feelings, Like I hate all of you,
like anyone that did me wrong, you know. And so
I feel like during that process, I could empathize with
(13:06):
people and like I just learned a lot and I
went through a lot, like of mental health stuff, Like
I feel like I was very low in that time too,
and I went to EMDR therapy. Lots of issues in
my relationship, like we were really trying to make it
working after an ectopic pregnancy, had lost and like you're
barely hanging on, like Rocky we just met, so like
I'm so like it was shocking that we're still together,
(13:28):
you know, after all of that, but working on that
and then yeah, I got pregnant again and that was
I think that was no accident, Like I wanted that.
I think from the loss, I was just like so
hurting and I wanted I wanted a child. I wanted
that child, you know that I had lost, so like
I wanted that and he did too, And so I
feel like there's no regret there. But I know it's
hard if what everyone's no opinions of like that's not
(13:49):
the smart thing to do, and no rocky relationship, you're
like you're probably right, but it was at that time
like that's what I wanted, and so I did it.
And I love my baby today and you know, I'm
so happy with him and we're still like going through
stuff and rocky and obviously relationship.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Putting it on reality TV makes.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
Things difficult, right, Like maybe I don't make the smartest decisions,
but I don't know. I went with my gut on
what I wanted and I did it.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
So well on the Since Dakota is the topic here,
well just some quick follow up da coda questions. One
are you all headed to marriage? Two? How are your
parents with Dakota? Three? How is Macy these days? With Dakota? Oh?
The eyes They don't lie, do they? So let's start
(14:33):
with Macy with the eyes out?
Speaker 7 (14:34):
Okay, tell me is joking because we have we have
like beef on the show obviously, and like I mean,
I feel like we're okay. I don't know though, because
whenever this is how it always explained a relationship.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
When we're together in person.
Speaker 7 (14:47):
We vibe so well, like me and Dakota, like our personalities,
like we had to travel here all together, and like
we're joking around with each other. I think for me,
it was more like Taylor's coming to me saying like, hey,
he's doing this or doing that, and like this is
a red flag, the red flag he shouldn't talk to you
like this. So for me from a protective friends standpoint,
I'm only seeing the bad for a while, right, and
I wasn't really saying the good. And I think over time,
(15:10):
like I realized, oh, like, you know, I like him,
Like they have their floss and tailors not perfect either,
so I think when I would see stuff like that,
I was like okay, Like so they both got a
little messy, you know, like we our relationship is on
decent terms.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
But it sounds like, as you said here, you're fully
supportive of them and a future together.
Speaker 7 (15:28):
Yeah, And I told like I've told her and like
I've told him, like I want you guys to work
like you have a baby together, Like I hope that
like everything works out for sure, Like as long as
everything's good you guys are treating each other, right, then great,
like make it work, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
So yeah, the goal.
Speaker 6 (15:44):
Has always been marriaged. I feel like I don't know
how much they show, you know, in the show, but
I feel like I've expressed that's the goal. I'm just
not to the point of I don't want to right now.
Like for me, I feel like there is trust issues there,
you know, have how we started, and I just need
that time to like hill from that and grow the
trust back, you know, like it needs. I'm not going
to go into a marriage not really fully trusting the person,
(16:05):
and so we're working on that. And then my parents
love him, We love him, they want They're like, if.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
It were up to them, I'd be married today.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
So, yeah, we saw an early episode.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
And your mom it was I laughed. It was actually
quite funny and it was real.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, they were warm about it. They weren't mean, but.
Speaker 6 (16:28):
Still they had Yeah, my mom's pretty harsh.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
She's she's honest, you know, And you've got to appreciate that,
especially in a reality show where maybe you can't believe
or trust much of what you're seeing or hearing, your
parents will set you straight, and I appreciate that. I
have been fascinated. So I grew up Catholic, and I have.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
You know, over my.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Period of time, I went from being a cafeteria Catholic
to kind of jokingly becoming a recovering Catholic. But I
didn't realize Mormonism you could have these varying degrees.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
I thought you were all in or all out.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
And so we see some of you drinking, We see
some of you obviously sexually being explorative, which wouldn't be
something that I would think would be sanctioned by the church.
What do you think about what this is doing or
saying about modern Mormonism for people who are watching and
maybe only have seen the Book of Mormon or have
only heard because this isn't something This isn't a religion
(17:21):
where you can walk into tabernacle like I don't want
to say secretive, but it's closed. It's not something that's
open for everyone. So people can only guess. What do
you think this show is doing for your faith? And
what have you heard back from maybe bishops or leaders
of the church.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
I feel like it's opening people's eyes.
Speaker 6 (17:38):
So it doesn't have to be like that, like very
one way or the other, all in or all out,
and that is like my message out there is that's
not the case. I feel like we all go through
these trials that you see in the show. Everyone does,
like I mean, people struggle with addiction and alcohol and
affairs and all these things and even in the Mormon religion,
and it happens, it's just very hush hush, and so
(18:00):
our thing is like just I want to share my story.
I want to come out and people like Mormons, we
aren't perfect, and that's like it doesn't have to be
that way. We all live differently, and you see that
in the show. There's a very devout and then there's
one that completely left the church, that was born and
raised right. So it's like our message was everyone has
a different story and it doesn't have to be one way,
(18:20):
and that's what you think it is.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
That's where a lot of people think it is.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
As you said, Yeah, I absolutely thought that, and.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
It's not and we don't not everyone's perfect, and that
was what the message is.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
And no one has reached out.
Speaker 7 (18:31):
I feel like, at least from anyone that I know,
no church leaders have reached ouf. They posted a statement
before the show came out, and I think it was
more just because everyone was freaking out onlines. I'l like
they had to post something, you know, but like everyone
was just chudging a book by its cover, Like when
you watch the show, like it's not like a documentary
on like Mormons right, like, it's not like that, and
(18:51):
so I think, yeah, like people were just judging a
book by its cover and no one's reached out to me.
Actually someone reached out because I wasn't at church on Sunday,
like this, want to make sure you're doing okay, Like
I thought it was because of the show that Alec
wasn't coming, But I was just like, kind of sex.
I was like, no, that's not the problem. I'm like,
I'm good, I'm coming. I don't care what you say.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Like, yeah, That's what I alluded to at the top
of why this show was different. There are plenty of
the housewives and reality this and that that put people together,
and you know what you're going to expect, you're going
to They're going to put them together. They're going to
take a trip, they're going to put some alcohol, they're
going to go to lunch, and it's going to be
an explosion. The thing about this story this that's different,
and there is some of that minus the alcohol. I
(19:29):
suppose there's some alcohol. There's some alcohol.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, that causes some of the problems, just the fact
that they're being there are there is alcohol there.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
But it makes I'm curious about how the Mormon faith
plays into your life. I have a curiosity sitting on
the edge of my seat watching you all, not because
I want to see a fight, but because I'm curious
of how you incorporate your day and day, your relationships,
your your marriages, your kids, how that blends with your
(19:57):
Mormon faith. And so my question, I guess is do
you find it good and bad? You're showing a side
of the Mormon faith that people didn't say, Oh, they're
normal just like me. Yeah, that's a good thing.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
But on the other side of that is they're showing
the Mormon faith and go, oh, that's how they are.
So it seems like it's a double sided coin.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 7 (20:20):
I think for me, I love that we could all
show like where we're at, because I'm like, I want
other people, especially people who are making Mormon or maybe
don't feel like they're enough because they're not following the
rules or the guidelembs to a tea. I want them
to build the watch and relate and be like, oh,
so like I don't I can swear and be Mormon. Oh,
like I don't have I could do get coffee and
still go to church and be Mormon like that's I
think what we wanted out of it is like no
(20:40):
one's perfect and people are still doing things, but they're
not like they're not like us admitting it and so like,
and I think there's like we just want to get
rid of that guilt and shame feeling for people who
maybe feel like us and like I was. I say
this so many times where people are gonna say it's
like my whole personality. But I'm from California, and California
culture with Mormons is different. Like I grew up, I
feel fairly normal, like none of my friends are really
(21:02):
Mormon like, so I feel like I have a different
perspective in general, I'm like, this is how Mormons are,
it's like how I am.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
But in Utah, the.
Speaker 7 (21:09):
Culture is different for sure, and I think it's a
little more I don't want to say judgmental, but it's
a little more to the book, like everyone's mostly following
the guidelines to a tee and it's not like that
like everywhere else. I feel like mostly Utah, So I
think it's shedding light on like relatability.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
I've been to Utah. It is very different than the
rest of the country.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
It certainly is.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
I'm curious you said, Taylor that in Utah people recognize
you and now you're going to probably have a very
different experience as you venture out. But how have you
been treated? Like do you see the sneers in the
eye rolls? Do people say things to you based on
just the even the TikTok situation?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
What has your life been like?
Speaker 6 (21:59):
Yeah, I feel like it's been overall in person, everyone
is great, and I think when everything originally came out
on TikTok, I had a like in Target, a girl
was like just so you know, like I got you,
we have your back, we support you. And it was
like a random strang journ. I was like, thank you,
like a church. A girl came up to me after
swinging things you just came out. She's like, I'm just
glad you're here today, and that's when she came. It
(22:20):
was just like things like that. But now we were
at the airport and a girl was like, oh, we
were all dressed.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
And the same and it was the cast and.
Speaker 5 (22:27):
She was like like, what's going on?
Speaker 6 (22:29):
You know when we were telling her were like talking
about the show, and she was like, oh yeah, none
of that, Like you could just tell she was a
Mormon and like heard about the show and already was
just like none of that. And then all of us
were like just like kind of shocked by her reaction,
and like to me, she was like, we all lived differently,
we all make mistakes and that's okay. Like was very
like firm back to her, and she's like, you know what,
(22:51):
I apologize. You're right, Like I think just like hearing it,
and she was like she hurt herself, like, oh, I'm sorry,
I apologize, And so that was kind of cool to
witness that conversation.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
And but.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
I haven't noticed it other than that, but I'm sure
we'll get it now, especially because she hadn't seen the show, right,
and they're they're going off just the title and the
trailer and they're like, that is not us.
Speaker 7 (23:12):
And they usually don't say it to your face, they
say it behind your back.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
The good I wasn't there for that. I dang, I'm
mad I missed that, Taylor.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I have another question for you. This is just my curiosity.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
How do a group of Mormon couples even start a
conversation or even entertain the idea of this soft swinging?
Like where does that come in, does someone bring it up?
Is it like, I'm just curious how something that like
that begins in that group set it.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
I think it was curiosity for everybody. So I've talked
about it before.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
They didn't do what you normal people do in their
college fun years, right, They got married and for their
first everyone was each other's first, right like.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
In most of them.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
Me, I won't speak for myself in that situation, and
I also did party my younger years, so I had
experienced that type of life. For them, I think it
was all new. And even for my ex, his first
time drinking was twenty eight years old, twenty nine, and
so I feel like it was like this thing that
we like started to drink and that was fun and
it was cool, and then it was like and then
it just another step was the boys like girls should kiss,
and I did that in my young year, so I
(24:20):
was like, okay, like whatever, let's kisslet's be. It was
just like dumb stuff, like high school stuff, and then
it was like, let's play spin the bottle, and it progresses.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
It's all basically.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Games you play in high school and college that they
didn't experience with other people, and so it led from yeah, that,
and then it was everyone's blindfolding each other, making out
with everyone and then touching everyone, and it was just
like love Island games.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Honestly they call it.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Yes we're familiar, but it's like all that maybe even
I don't want to put words, but like all that
repression maybe or you can't or you shouldn't or don't,
so you end up having like teenage years in your
late twenties.
Speaker 6 (24:54):
And it was fun because we had been married for
like six world. Oh I've been married only six years,
and so it's like you're kind of at that time
of like just like little bored. I would say, like
I hate to admit it, but bored. And so it
was like spicing things up. And the guy saw They're like,
this is spicing up our wives, Like hell yeah. And
so it was never with like ill intention. It was
more just like that's fun.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
My spouse is right here.
Speaker 6 (25:15):
We're not doing anything wrong, like we were on the
same page. It didn't feel bad in the moment. You
look at it now and it's like it's ruined all
of our lives. Everyone's divorced, the kids are going back
and forth to houses. It's like ruined our lives, you know,
But at the time it wasn't. We didn't feel bad
and so it was never a conversation. It just like happened.
Speaker 7 (25:31):
It's funny because when I heard about it, I was like,
this is something you do in college. It's like, this
is a college exploratory phase, Like why are we doing
like why were we doing this as like married adults,
I mean, each to their own. But when I first
heard it, like, this sounds like something you do in college,
like when you're like getting your little.
Speaker 6 (25:46):
Woll And when I hear some of the people involved
talk about it, they're like, yeah, we were just kids.
Like we're all thirty almost thirty year olds old, we're
not kids, like what they're.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Kids in terms of experiences, right, yes, but this was
but this was a one off. This was a one
This wasn't like a lifestyle if you will, I use
that in air quarts, but this isn't something that continues.
It was the one off experimental.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Well.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
I wouldn't even use the word swinger.
Speaker 6 (26:08):
I mean I feel like I did, but like going back,
I said soft swinging and that wasn't even my term
I made up.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Okay, I soft swinging is that clearly defined that everybody understands.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
To be a full on swinger.
Speaker 6 (26:26):
Ever, it was soft swinging, and someone told me that
what we're doing with soft swing?
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Okay, so I said, And how long did it go
on before it started to unravel?
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Folks?
Speaker 6 (26:36):
A year with a couple and then with the other
couples involved.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
I feel like it all blew up within two months.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
I didn't know. Again, I haven't done a deep enough dive,
have you that to hear the relationships and marriages were impacted.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
All of them.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Everyone was divorced.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
By it being revealed or just by it happening.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
I think all of it.
Speaker 6 (26:57):
Yeah, like it happening and the fairs involved and issues, Yeah,
I would call it just we opened our relationship up
and it went bad. I wouldn't even call us, I
mean swingers at this point, Like, yes, that's what we're
known for. But like I would say, it was just
an experienced, like open relationship.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
What do you want to be known for now?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
And as this is, we're all now consuming the season
and hopefully there'll be a second season. What do you
all hope comes from this? And what do you want
from putting this all out there?
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Yeah, it's hard to say.
Speaker 7 (27:30):
I think, like, well, the goal with the show, I
think for us is like relatability. We want people to
relate and to be inspired maybe from like we all
have very interesting backstories, and you don't see that all
in the season one. We're hoping with like future seasons
you can see how we really are where we came
from deep down. And I think that everyone even more
so can relate to us because we all have interesting stories.
So I think that's the goal and the hope is
(27:52):
that we can share more of our lives and hopefully
impact people and you know, further our careers. Of course,
Like why would you do being reality show if you
like didn't want to.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
Further your career. I guess yeah.
Speaker 6 (28:04):
For me, I feel like, yeah, it was a big
It was an opportunity to obviously tell my story rather
than my headline. Yes, that is something I did. That's
not something I want to be known for, Like I
don't want that headline. It was a mistake, a lesson learned,
and I feel like this was my opportunity to come
tell my story and that's not me anymore. Like I
feel like I've grown from that. I don't want ever
(28:25):
that in my life again, and yeah, this was a
chance to just like and also show rock bottom, like
I went through another year of stuff and that you
can come out of it. And it's like we've all
hit a low spot and I feel like you can
either choose one way to go dig yourself deeper and
come out of it, you know, so just gave me.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I and everyone, no matter who you think you are
or where you are in life or everyone, gets to
a point where you hit that moment and then you
get the empathy and you get the wisdom, yes, and
you learn how to make things better.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
And that's how we go through it. So we appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
I mean, it's been entertaining, but I do think there
are lessons in there and this is real stuff that
people don't talk about, and you guys are showing us,
so we appreciate.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
We can't say it enough. Look, we've been through our
own types of hell, but it causes us to see
a show, even as entertaining and as trashy as some
I might try to describe it as we saw you
all as human beings first, and to see you all
sitting in this room, now, that is the first thing
we see We don't see characters on a show. You
all are just two human beings who made mistakes like
(29:31):
everybody else. And I have my eleven year old at
lunch at middle school right now. I told her you
all had arrived. She said, send me a pick.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Starts.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
But I'm saying, I'm saying Sabine doesn't come here, she's
not that interested. But I'm saying the impact you all
are having for even that kid, and for us and
a lot of people, the impact you all are having
is enormous. What it ultimately ends up being, who knows,
but it's still we love to see a human story
and a comeback story and real, y, real folks. So
(30:05):
we're saying that from the bottom of our hearts and.
Speaker 6 (30:08):
Honored to be on Like especially you guys have been
through your own stuff and you can maybe relate in
a sense of.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Like we can. Yeah, we can. We know what it's
like to be vilified and relate.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
To the swinging stuff.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Yea, oh no, I mean, I mean.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Yes, Being being the villain in anyone's story is a
really tough place to be, but it makes you better
and it makes you stronger in the end. So congratulations
on the wild success that you are experiencing.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
And we hope for reconciliation, you know.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
We we hope Whitney comes back and we get more,
and we we we're going to finish the season.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I might be done by tonight. Actually need to thank you.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
All, thank you, thank you
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Bocations, The int
Taylor, folks, got a question for you on this episode today.
Are you team Taylor? Are you team Whitney? And if
you don't know what I'm talking about right now, you
are out of the loop or under a rock. Tayler folks,
Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes. Sitting
next to me, Robes, we have talked to several people
the last couple days we said we are interviewing the
women from the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. What has
(00:27):
been the reaction we've gotten from everybody? Universal?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
My gosh, I'm obsessed.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
And you know this show has been out not even
for a full week, correct, and it's already it's number
one on Hulu.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Everyone's talking about it.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I was excited to have a reason for research purposes
to have to watch the show, and that's all I've
been doing for us.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
In all seriousness, Were you really trying to find a
way to make an excuse for why you needed to
watch it because you felt like I should I shouldn't
be watching.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
That type of thing, aren't you know? The answer is absolutely.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I watched ninety eight Beyonce Married at First Sight, Love Island,
Love is Blind Full disclosure.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I love some reality.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So let's be honest, full disclosure here. I watch plenty
of those with you. This one is different for a
very specific reason that we'll get into. But right now
we need to welcome into the studio folks. They are
sitting right here in front of us, two ladies who
are looking for tickets to the Book of Mormons. If
you have them on Broadway, they would appreciate. With Taylor Freaky,
(01:33):
Paul Macy Neely, Welcome, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Welcome to guys.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
You guys are entertaining to listen to. I love your voices.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
You're the news background.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Oh okay, yes, decades of training yea, So okay, with
that background, you know we're journalist.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
We're going to get right to it. So tell us
season two. Is it confirmed? Is it happening?
Speaker 5 (01:55):
It's not confirmed, but I have a feeling.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
We hope, yeah, but we don't know anything.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Do you know when you'll know? Have they given you
an idea?
Speaker 6 (02:03):
If I think if it's happening, it'll be here very soon,
I think, But I guess, I guess we're not the
ones who called the shots so real we.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Know good hell, well, this thing is getting renewed. Is
there anybody show a hands in the room who thinks
this is not? Of course is getting renewed, but it's
a congratulations. And the question what has life looked like since?
And again it's only what you say of.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Six days or something. It's like four, Oh yeah, well
was it Friday?
Speaker 5 (02:28):
Came out Friday?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Wow, as we sit here, you're only a few days in.
How has life changed even in the matter of days
since the show hit who it.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Hasn't hit us?
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Yeah, it like hasn't hit us yet.
Speaker 7 (02:39):
I think that what's changed, just like all the comments
and all the buzz, Like if we open social media,
all we see is ourselves, which is it like normal?
So I feel like that's the weirdest part is like
seeing all the buzz and I'm like, whoa, Like this
is bigger than we anticipatedor I ever thought it would be.
Speaker 6 (02:54):
Yeah, I mean I think going places too, I don't
think we kind of knew, like because in our circle
we're kind of like, well no, i'd say, like people
know us in Utah, you know, but we're going to
the airport now and like everyone's stopping, Hey can we
get a picture? And it's so weird it's like it's different.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
I don't know nationwide. Yeah, it's like weird.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah, have you all watched the episodes back?
Speaker 5 (03:14):
I have? She has it?
Speaker 6 (03:16):
No, I get it came out Friday I spent so
I have part time with my kids, and so I
got them back for those three days before I left town.
So I was like, I'm not gonna sit and watch
the show. Obviously, don't want it on my screen with
my kids watching. It's like my backstory. I didn't want it.
So no, I have not gone to it. I know
people don't blame me, like you definitely have seen it.
I was like, I literally haven't.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Okay, ma see, So what do you think having seen.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
It it is? I mean it's pretty good.
Speaker 7 (03:41):
I think it's hard when you watch yourself in it,
You're like, no, it's like a whole movie, Like it
doesn't seem like a real like production, right because I
just see me and my friends on the like on
the TV screen. But I mean it was juicy for sure,
Like it was crazy to see how much was cut
out compared to how much we filmed.
Speaker 6 (03:56):
Too.
Speaker 7 (03:56):
I was like, this almost seems like a highlight reel
of what we filmed because we filmed so.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Much or a low light in some moments.
Speaker 7 (04:03):
Oh yeah, for sure, true, Yeah, I'm curious.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
I don't know how much people want to give away
about what ends up happening. And I actually read ahead
because it is juicy. That is probably a very light
word to use, but everyone knows if you've got girl groups.
I was talking to TJ about it. You know, it
gets messy and it gets difficult sometimes we have all
these different personalities. But I know that there were problems
(04:35):
going into the show based on what happened. And we'll
get into the backstory of this, But did this do
further damage being on this show to already thinly put
together friendships that were barely hanging on? Did this destroy
friendships doing the show?
Speaker 5 (04:51):
Yes and no.
Speaker 7 (04:52):
I should say, like some of us got closer and
then some of us didn't.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
And I think there's like a bit of a divide
right now.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
For sure, Why are you giggling?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
You?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
You immediately reacted to what she said.
Speaker 6 (05:02):
Why, it's just funny, Like I guess now the girls
have seen it. We were told, yeah, you're gonna have
broken friendships. Oh like really, and then there has been Yeah.
Speaker 7 (05:11):
Yeah, it's starting to happen right now behind the scenes,
so it's yeah, there's like drama going on behind the
scenes with everything, So it's.
Speaker 6 (05:19):
Funny, like it's just the people you don't think. Sometimes
it's just like, oh.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yes, is it irreparable though irreparable harm that's being done
or just things that are going to take time to get.
Speaker 6 (05:29):
Past and for me, things that will take time. Like
I feel like I'm pretty forgive.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
I haven't seen the show, so I don't know if.
Speaker 6 (05:37):
I'm forgiving this show, but like I feel like I'm
pretty forgiving, especially with girlfriends, and so I feel like
if any damage is done, I I'll be able to forgive.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
But we'll just be straight up Whitney right now, you know,
it's going through the mud.
Speaker 6 (05:47):
And so I feel like I was saying this earlier,
like I'll always she helped me in a very dark place,
like when I was at my lowest, and so even
though she might not be a fan of me, like
I'm gonna be here for her during this cause I've
been her exact spot and so I just feel for
her at this point.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Is it true that everyone has unfollowed Whitney.
Speaker 6 (06:05):
I mean I haven't, but I don't know if she's
in follow me, but I think all the other girls
haven't followed her.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Yeah, And I don't know. It's hard.
Speaker 6 (06:13):
Like I know they're like very like upset and they
have all these feelings into they can. But I feel
like I just have been in Whitney's spot of that
villain and and it's like out of hurt too, and
she's reacting and I think it's out of she's just hurting,
and so like for me, I feel for I'm like
I see myself and so I'm not going to add
to that.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
I'm only going to be here for her.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Have you all reached out? Have you all tried? Is
there any communication with Whitney right now?
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Yeah, I sul I'm here for you no matter what.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
But is there back and forth? It's just kind of
one way right now.
Speaker 7 (06:39):
I mean I reached out to her and she han't respond,
but I guess she's responding.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
To Taylor, And she responded to you, Taylor.
Speaker 6 (06:44):
She did, and she like kind of just broke her
feelings down and her reasonings. And I haven't responded because
we've been on the go, and so I know to
like take a minute to read all of it and
then respond.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
It's interesting you point out and we have a little
history and knowing what it feels like when people when
they're listening to a story, and obviously there are lots
of different sides, but people want a good guy, and
they want a bad guy or a villain and a saint,
a saint in a sinner. I think one of the
episodes is even called Saints and Sinners. Have you like,
I feel like, basically somehow you've never actually been in
(07:17):
the bad guy situation.
Speaker 7 (07:19):
As if yet not Yeah, I mean towards the end
like kind of can go both ways, and like that
kind of makes me look a little bit like a villain.
At least when I watched it, I was like, uh oh,
but like that wasn't the intention. They did kind a
scene where I asked Taylor's permission to call this person
who's like involved in Dakota's past, but they cut that out,
so I was like, dang, that actually kind of makes
me look a little bit like a villain.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
But if they saw it wasn't cut.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
She'll no, I'm just kidding. She's a good friend. So
it's like hard when you're like.
Speaker 7 (07:47):
I wouldn't say I'm like a natural villain, Like I
would just say, like I'm not how many I'm perfect.
I'm just kidding, No, But I I just like love
my friendships and I hate when people, Yeah, and I
hate when people are so hot I cold, Michael, I
can't we all just like be friends?
Speaker 5 (08:01):
Like how hard is it to get along? Like I
don't understand.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Apparently it's really hard.
Speaker 7 (08:04):
Yeah, And I understand because like you have eight strong,
like minded women, like we all are like opinionated, like granted,
like potified by we're on a reality show together, because
so there's bound to be conflicts, right, like this is natural.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
And please know when I asked, we're only three episodes in.
Let you know that. So when I asked, I said, Okay,
I know who're interview. Got Taylor, got Mace, and I
came in that like came around the corner. I said, Okay,
which one is Macy's Again, she said She's Switzerland. That's
how she writes.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I've been able to go back and forth with two
different groups at least. I think we're on episode four.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
By the way, But she suggested that that might have
been stressful or difficult for you. When even I opened
this episode talking about Team Whitney, your team, it seems
like everybody needs to take a split outside and you
are going back and forth, and what does that continue
with you now? The stress of having to try to
manage kind of keep the whole team together in a
certain way.
Speaker 7 (08:59):
I feel like right now now I'm not I'm not
even thinking about it when there's too much going on.
But during the show, I feel like it is the
biggest stressor for me. Was like I feel like I
was always in between two groups and it was hard
because now I feel like I'm seeing online like on
social medio, people are being like, oh, she's playing both sides,
like she's the smart one, She's the starting the problem.
Like actually no, I was stuck between two sides and
(09:20):
it was so stressful because like then when bigore are
they saying about me? And I'm like, I'm not saying anything,
and the what are you saying? I'm like, I don't
want to say anything, Like I just want to be
friends with everybody, and like apparently that's an issue and
I don't, like, yeah, that's like a problem.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
People want people to take sides. I think a lot
of times.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Taylor, I want to ask you because how this all began.
Obviously I learned a lot about what is it soft
swinging is. We don't need to go into all of
that because I think that's been heavily discussed. However, I
did have a question because we started watching the episode
(09:57):
and it starts out right after all of that, and
presumably when you all got the show the TikTok that
went viral, you had been accused of cheating or being
a man or a husband stealer, and you said, hold up,
everyone was involved or a lot of folks were involved
in this soft swinging, so it was agreed upon consensual
(10:20):
mutual so I'm not the bad guy here. But then,
of course many of your friends and the friend group
felt like they then had to defend themselves say hey,
it wasn't me. There are a lot of questions swirling around.
Is anyone who was on the show now a part
of that group without naming names? Or are these all
people we haven't heard or seen.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Before the second one?
Speaker 6 (10:38):
So yeah, no one was involved on the cast shown now, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Do you feel like you made that clear?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
And that maybe that's why some of the girls were
upset that they didn't feel like their names were cleared
by you.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Now I feel like it's very cleared.
Speaker 6 (10:54):
I don't know how much they show on the show,
but I think I've cleared that up now, and especially
in the interviews as well, like we've all said, know,
like none of the cast is like involved other than myself. Yeah,
So I feel like that's clear, But I don't know.
Is there still questions you think out there?
Speaker 7 (11:07):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Absolutely really because anything anybody told me about this show
about Mormon wives, Oh they're swinging in them? Did you
not know?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
And thinking who's denying it? They just don't want to
admit it? I think he's Here's it's hard.
Speaker 6 (11:24):
It is because we are in like the TikTok world
and that's our jobs and we do that and there's
mom talk, right, So you have people that were involved
in there and then they're not on the show. So
it is very like people cannot connect. But I think
if you have been there and you did the research,
it's not hard to pinpoint who is and who is.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
I haven't done.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
We have more homework, so thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Some further interviews, But we started out. You started out
thinking you were pregnant, you had I believe a miscarriage,
and then almost a full year goes by before you
start filming again. Yeah, obviously you were arrested. Anybody can
do that Google search as well. What happened to you
during that year and what made you decide to start
(12:10):
filming again?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Give us fill in that gap for us.
Speaker 6 (12:14):
Yeah, I feel like it was like a transformative time.
I would say, I feel like when I started to film,
you can see it clear as day. I'm I know
you haven't like finished, but I'm a different person in
episode one, And then I think, I, you know, I'm
a completely different person going forward in the show, you know,
And so I feel like in the beginning would have
(12:35):
been chaos if we kept filming. I can't imagine the
show because I was like, you can just tell them
like I don't care.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
I don't give an f about anything or anyone.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
I was just in a hurting phase and I just
like was so angry, I think, and then I've yeah,
I was dating dakote, I went through the miscarre or
the ectopic pregnancy. So I feel like I got softer
within time and like more empathetic towards others and like
how they're feeling, because in the beginning, I'm like, I
don't care why anyone's feelings, Like I hate all of you,
like anyone that did me wrong, you know. And so
I feel like during that process, I could empathize with
(13:06):
people and like I just learned a lot and I
went through a lot, like of mental health stuff, Like
I feel like I was very low in that time too,
and I went to EMDR therapy. Lots of issues in
my relationship, like we were really trying to make it
working after an ectopic pregnancy, had lost and like you're
barely hanging on, like Rocky we just met, so like
I'm so like it was shocking that we're still together,
(13:28):
you know, after all of that, but working on that
and then yeah, I got pregnant again and that was
I think that was no accident, Like I wanted that.
I think from the loss, I was just like so
hurting and I wanted I wanted a child. I wanted
that child, you know that I had lost, so like
I wanted that and he did too, And so I
feel like there's no regret there. But I know it's
hard if what everyone's no opinions of like that's not
(13:49):
the smart thing to do, and no rocky relationship, you're
like you're probably right, but it was at that time
like that's what I wanted, and so I did it.
And I love my baby today and you know, I'm
so happy with him and we're still like going through
stuff and rocky and obviously relationship.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Putting it on reality TV makes.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
Things difficult, right, Like maybe I don't make the smartest decisions,
but I don't know. I went with my gut on
what I wanted and I did it.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
So well on the Since Dakota is the topic here,
well just some quick follow up da coda questions. One
are you all headed to marriage? Two? How are your
parents with Dakota? Three? How is Macy these days? With Dakota? Oh?
The eyes They don't lie, do they? So let's start
(14:33):
with Macy with the eyes out?
Speaker 7 (14:34):
Okay, tell me is joking because we have we have
like beef on the show obviously, and like I mean,
I feel like we're okay. I don't know though, because
whenever this is how it always explained a relationship.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
When we're together in person.
Speaker 7 (14:47):
We vibe so well, like me and Dakota, like our personalities,
like we had to travel here all together, and like
we're joking around with each other. I think for me,
it was more like Taylor's coming to me saying like, hey,
he's doing this or doing that, and like this is
a red flag, the red flag he shouldn't talk to you
like this. So for me from a protective friends standpoint,
I'm only seeing the bad for a while, right, and
I wasn't really saying the good. And I think over time,
(15:10):
like I realized, oh, like, you know, I like him,
Like they have their floss and tailors not perfect either,
so I think when I would see stuff like that,
I was like okay, Like so they both got a
little messy, you know, like we our relationship is on
decent terms.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
But it sounds like, as you said here, you're fully
supportive of them and a future together.
Speaker 7 (15:28):
Yeah, And I told like I've told her and like
I've told him, like I want you guys to work
like you have a baby together, Like I hope that
like everything works out for sure, Like as long as
everything's good you guys are treating each other, right, then great,
like make it work, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
So yeah, the goal.
Speaker 6 (15:44):
Has always been marriaged. I feel like I don't know
how much they show, you know, in the show, but
I feel like I've expressed that's the goal. I'm just
not to the point of I don't want to right now.
Like for me, I feel like there is trust issues there,
you know, have how we started, and I just need
that time to like hill from that and grow the
trust back, you know, like it needs. I'm not going
to go into a marriage not really fully trusting the person,
(16:05):
and so we're working on that. And then my parents
love him, We love him, they want They're like, if.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
It were up to them, I'd be married today.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
So, yeah, we saw an early episode.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
And your mom it was I laughed. It was actually
quite funny and it was real.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, they were warm about it. They weren't mean, but.
Speaker 6 (16:28):
Still they had Yeah, my mom's pretty harsh.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
She's she's honest, you know, And you've got to appreciate that,
especially in a reality show where maybe you can't believe
or trust much of what you're seeing or hearing, your
parents will set you straight, and I appreciate that. I
have been fascinated. So I grew up Catholic, and I have.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
You know, over my.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Period of time, I went from being a cafeteria Catholic
to kind of jokingly becoming a recovering Catholic. But I
didn't realize Mormonism you could have these varying degrees.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
I thought you were all in or all out.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
And so we see some of you drinking, We see
some of you obviously sexually being explorative, which wouldn't be
something that I would think would be sanctioned by the church.
What do you think about what this is doing or
saying about modern Mormonism for people who are watching and
maybe only have seen the Book of Mormon or have
only heard because this isn't something This isn't a religion
(17:21):
where you can walk into tabernacle like I don't want
to say secretive, but it's closed. It's not something that's
open for everyone. So people can only guess. What do
you think this show is doing for your faith? And
what have you heard back from maybe bishops or leaders
of the church.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
I feel like it's opening people's eyes.
Speaker 6 (17:38):
So it doesn't have to be like that, like very
one way or the other, all in or all out,
and that is like my message out there is that's
not the case. I feel like we all go through
these trials that you see in the show. Everyone does,
like I mean, people struggle with addiction and alcohol and
affairs and all these things and even in the Mormon religion,
and it happens, it's just very hush hush, and so
(18:00):
our thing is like just I want to share my story.
I want to come out and people like Mormons, we
aren't perfect, and that's like it doesn't have to be
that way. We all live differently, and you see that
in the show. There's a very devout and then there's
one that completely left the church, that was born and
raised right. So it's like our message was everyone has
a different story and it doesn't have to be one way,
(18:20):
and that's what you think it is.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
That's where a lot of people think it is.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
As you said, Yeah, I absolutely thought that, and.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
It's not and we don't not everyone's perfect, and that
was what the message is.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
And no one has reached out.
Speaker 7 (18:31):
I feel like, at least from anyone that I know,
no church leaders have reached ouf. They posted a statement
before the show came out, and I think it was
more just because everyone was freaking out onlines. I'l like
they had to post something, you know, but like everyone
was just chudging a book by its cover, Like when
you watch the show, like it's not like a documentary
on like Mormons right, like, it's not like that, and
(18:51):
so I think, yeah, like people were just judging a
book by its cover and no one's reached out to me.
Actually someone reached out because I wasn't at church on Sunday,
like this, want to make sure you're doing okay, Like
I thought it was because of the show that Alec
wasn't coming, But I was just like, kind of sex.
I was like, no, that's not the problem. I'm like,
I'm good, I'm coming. I don't care what you say.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Like, yeah, That's what I alluded to at the top
of why this show was different. There are plenty of
the housewives and reality this and that that put people together,
and you know what you're going to expect, you're going
to They're going to put them together. They're going to
take a trip, they're going to put some alcohol, they're
going to go to lunch, and it's going to be
an explosion. The thing about this story this that's different,
and there is some of that minus the alcohol. I
(19:29):
suppose there's some alcohol. There's some alcohol.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, that causes some of the problems, just the fact
that they're being there are there is alcohol there.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
But it makes I'm curious about how the Mormon faith
plays into your life. I have a curiosity sitting on
the edge of my seat watching you all, not because
I want to see a fight, but because I'm curious
of how you incorporate your day and day, your relationships,
your your marriages, your kids, how that blends with your
(19:57):
Mormon faith. And so my question, I guess is do
you find it good and bad? You're showing a side
of the Mormon faith that people didn't say, Oh, they're
normal just like me. Yeah, that's a good thing.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
But on the other side of that is they're showing
the Mormon faith and go, oh, that's how they are.
So it seems like it's a double sided coin.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 7 (20:20):
I think for me, I love that we could all
show like where we're at, because I'm like, I want
other people, especially people who are making Mormon or maybe
don't feel like they're enough because they're not following the
rules or the guidelembs to a tea. I want them
to build the watch and relate and be like, oh,
so like I don't I can swear and be Mormon. Oh,
like I don't have I could do get coffee and
still go to church and be Mormon like that's I
think what we wanted out of it is like no
(20:40):
one's perfect and people are still doing things, but they're
not like they're not like us admitting it and so like,
and I think there's like we just want to get
rid of that guilt and shame feeling for people who
maybe feel like us and like I was. I say
this so many times where people are gonna say it's
like my whole personality. But I'm from California, and California
culture with Mormons is different. Like I grew up, I
feel fairly normal, like none of my friends are really
(21:02):
Mormon like, so I feel like I have a different
perspective in general, I'm like, this is how Mormons are,
it's like how I am.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
But in Utah, the.
Speaker 7 (21:09):
Culture is different for sure, and I think it's a
little more I don't want to say judgmental, but it's
a little more to the book, like everyone's mostly following
the guidelines to a tee and it's not like that
like everywhere else. I feel like mostly Utah, So I
think it's shedding light on like relatability.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
I've been to Utah. It is very different than the
rest of the country.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
It certainly is.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
I'm curious you said, Taylor that in Utah people recognize
you and now you're going to probably have a very
different experience as you venture out. But how have you
been treated? Like do you see the sneers in the
eye rolls? Do people say things to you based on
just the even the TikTok situation?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
What has your life been like?
Speaker 6 (21:59):
Yeah, I feel like it's been overall in person, everyone
is great, and I think when everything originally came out
on TikTok, I had a like in Target, a girl
was like just so you know, like I got you,
we have your back, we support you. And it was
like a random strang journ. I was like, thank you,
like a church. A girl came up to me after
swinging things you just came out. She's like, I'm just
glad you're here today, and that's when she came. It
(22:20):
was just like things like that. But now we were
at the airport and a girl was like, oh, we
were all dressed.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
And the same and it was the cast and.
Speaker 5 (22:27):
She was like like, what's going on?
Speaker 6 (22:29):
You know when we were telling her were like talking
about the show, and she was like, oh yeah, none
of that, Like you could just tell she was a
Mormon and like heard about the show and already was
just like none of that. And then all of us
were like just like kind of shocked by her reaction,
and like to me, she was like, we all lived differently,
we all make mistakes and that's okay. Like was very
like firm back to her, and she's like, you know what,
(22:51):
I apologize. You're right, Like I think just like hearing it,
and she was like she hurt herself, like, oh, I'm sorry,
I apologize, And so that was kind of cool to
witness that conversation.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
And but.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
I haven't noticed it other than that, but I'm sure
we'll get it now, especially because she hadn't seen the show, right,
and they're they're going off just the title and the
trailer and they're like, that is not us.
Speaker 7 (23:12):
And they usually don't say it to your face, they
say it behind your back.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
The good I wasn't there for that. I dang, I'm
mad I missed that, Taylor.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I have another question for you. This is just my curiosity.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
How do a group of Mormon couples even start a
conversation or even entertain the idea of this soft swinging?
Like where does that come in, does someone bring it up?
Is it like, I'm just curious how something that like
that begins in that group set it.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
I think it was curiosity for everybody. So I've talked
about it before.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
They didn't do what you normal people do in their
college fun years, right, They got married and for their
first everyone was each other's first, right like.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
In most of them.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
Me, I won't speak for myself in that situation, and
I also did party my younger years, so I had
experienced that type of life. For them, I think it
was all new. And even for my ex, his first
time drinking was twenty eight years old, twenty nine, and
so I feel like it was like this thing that
we like started to drink and that was fun and
it was cool, and then it was like and then
it just another step was the boys like girls should kiss,
and I did that in my young year, so I
(24:20):
was like, okay, like whatever, let's kisslet's be. It was
just like dumb stuff, like high school stuff, and then
it was like, let's play spin the bottle, and it progresses.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
It's all basically.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Games you play in high school and college that they
didn't experience with other people, and so it led from yeah, that,
and then it was everyone's blindfolding each other, making out
with everyone and then touching everyone, and it was just
like love Island games.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Honestly they call it.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Yes we're familiar, but it's like all that maybe even
I don't want to put words, but like all that
repression maybe or you can't or you shouldn't or don't,
so you end up having like teenage years in your
late twenties.
Speaker 6 (24:54):
And it was fun because we had been married for
like six world. Oh I've been married only six years,
and so it's like you're kind of at that time
of like just like little bored. I would say, like
I hate to admit it, but bored. And so it
was like spicing things up. And the guy saw They're like,
this is spicing up our wives, Like hell yeah. And
so it was never with like ill intention. It was
more just like that's fun.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
My spouse is right here.
Speaker 6 (25:15):
We're not doing anything wrong, like we were on the
same page. It didn't feel bad in the moment. You
look at it now and it's like it's ruined all
of our lives. Everyone's divorced, the kids are going back
and forth to houses. It's like ruined our lives, you know,
But at the time it wasn't. We didn't feel bad
and so it was never a conversation. It just like happened.
Speaker 7 (25:31):
It's funny because when I heard about it, I was like,
this is something you do in college. It's like, this
is a college exploratory phase, Like why are we doing
like why were we doing this as like married adults,
I mean, each to their own. But when I first
heard it, like, this sounds like something you do in college,
like when you're like getting your little.
Speaker 6 (25:46):
Woll And when I hear some of the people involved
talk about it, they're like, yeah, we were just kids.
Like we're all thirty almost thirty year olds old, we're
not kids, like what they're.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Kids in terms of experiences, right, yes, but this was
but this was a one off. This was a one
This wasn't like a lifestyle if you will, I use
that in air quarts, but this isn't something that continues.
It was the one off experimental.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Well.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
I wouldn't even use the word swinger.
Speaker 6 (26:08):
I mean I feel like I did, but like going back,
I said soft swinging and that wasn't even my term
I made up.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Okay, I soft swinging is that clearly defined that everybody understands.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
To be a full on swinger.
Speaker 6 (26:26):
Ever, it was soft swinging, and someone told me that
what we're doing with soft swing?
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Okay, so I said, And how long did it go
on before it started to unravel?
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Folks?
Speaker 6 (26:36):
A year with a couple and then with the other
couples involved.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
I feel like it all blew up within two months.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
I didn't know. Again, I haven't done a deep enough dive,
have you that to hear the relationships and marriages were impacted.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
All of them.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Everyone was divorced.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
By it being revealed or just by it happening.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
I think all of it.
Speaker 6 (26:57):
Yeah, like it happening and the fairs involved and issues, Yeah,
I would call it just we opened our relationship up
and it went bad. I wouldn't even call us, I
mean swingers at this point, Like, yes, that's what we're
known for. But like I would say, it was just
an experienced, like open relationship.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
What do you want to be known for now?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
And as this is, we're all now consuming the season
and hopefully there'll be a second season. What do you
all hope comes from this? And what do you want
from putting this all out there?
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Yeah, it's hard to say.
Speaker 7 (27:30):
I think, like, well, the goal with the show, I
think for us is like relatability. We want people to
relate and to be inspired maybe from like we all
have very interesting backstories, and you don't see that all
in the season one. We're hoping with like future seasons
you can see how we really are where we came
from deep down. And I think that everyone even more
so can relate to us because we all have interesting stories.
So I think that's the goal and the hope is
(27:52):
that we can share more of our lives and hopefully
impact people and you know, further our careers. Of course,
Like why would you do being reality show if you
like didn't want to.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
Further your career. I guess yeah.
Speaker 6 (28:04):
For me, I feel like, yeah, it was a big
It was an opportunity to obviously tell my story rather
than my headline. Yes, that is something I did. That's
not something I want to be known for, Like I
don't want that headline. It was a mistake, a lesson learned,
and I feel like this was my opportunity to come
tell my story and that's not me anymore. Like I
feel like I've grown from that. I don't want ever
(28:25):
that in my life again, and yeah, this was a
chance to just like and also show rock bottom, like
I went through another year of stuff and that you
can come out of it. And it's like we've all
hit a low spot and I feel like you can
either choose one way to go dig yourself deeper and
come out of it, you know, so just gave me.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I and everyone, no matter who you think you are
or where you are in life or everyone, gets to
a point where you hit that moment and then you
get the empathy and you get the wisdom, yes, and
you learn how to make things better.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
And that's how we go through it. So we appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
I mean, it's been entertaining, but I do think there
are lessons in there and this is real stuff that
people don't talk about, and you guys are showing us,
so we appreciate.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
We can't say it enough. Look, we've been through our
own types of hell, but it causes us to see
a show, even as entertaining and as trashy as some
I might try to describe it as we saw you
all as human beings first, and to see you all
sitting in this room, now, that is the first thing
we see We don't see characters on a show. You
all are just two human beings who made mistakes like
(29:31):
everybody else. And I have my eleven year old at
lunch at middle school right now. I told her you
all had arrived. She said, send me a pick.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Starts.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
But I'm saying, I'm saying Sabine doesn't come here, she's
not that interested. But I'm saying the impact you all
are having for even that kid, and for us and
a lot of people, the impact you all are having
is enormous. What it ultimately ends up being, who knows,
but it's still we love to see a human story
and a comeback story and real, y, real folks. So
(30:05):
we're saying that from the bottom of our hearts and.
Speaker 6 (30:08):
Honored to be on Like especially you guys have been
through your own stuff and you can maybe relate in
a sense of.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Like we can. Yeah, we can. We know what it's
like to be vilified and relate.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
To the swinging stuff.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Yea, oh no, I mean, I mean.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Yes, Being being the villain in anyone's story is a
really tough place to be, but it makes you better
and it makes you stronger in the end. So congratulations
on the wild success that you are experiencing.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
And we hope for reconciliation, you know.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
We we hope Whitney comes back and we get more,
and we we we're going to finish the season.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I might be done by tonight. Actually need to thank you.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
All, thank you, thank you
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Bocations, The int
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Amy Robach
T.J. Holmes
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