May 22, 2025 • 25 mins
We learned so much more about the world of Diddy in the latest day of testimony. Platform shoes, 100-hour work weeks, rubber ducks, an immunity deal. And that was just the FIRST witness of the day. Amy and T. J. continue to be a one-stop shop to catch you up on what's happening in court, and yesterday was, once again, full of surprises.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey there, everybody, and welcome to this episode of Aiming
and TJ. It is Thursday, May twenty second. The Diddy
trial continues here in Lower Manhattan where it's been a dreary, cold,
wintery day here in late May. Robes, it's really kind
of miserable here and this trial continues again. As we say,
(00:23):
we can see it right out the window for the
most part, just a few buildings are in our way
between here and that and that courthouse. But Robes, we
have been doing this now is you coined it? You
said this is kind of a one stop shop because
it is confusing for people to try to find so
many sources, so many websites, to try to piece together
exactly what happened in court.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
That's right. There aren't cameras in the courtroom, and so
you have reporters who give live updates and you actually,
I've found that we've had to go into multiple different
sites to piecemeal like minute by minute almost what's happened,
and who's recorded what, and who's impressed by or taken
by something. So so yes, this is all encompassing one
stop shop. You want to know what happened during the testimony,
(01:05):
We've got it for you all of the bullet points.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
And yes, as we sit here as of this recording,
another day of testimony is underway, so it is ongoing
as we speak. But another full day of testimony is
in the books. That was yesterday. Several witnesses on the stand,
what stood out to you yesterday? Wrote?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I think the big thing that stood out to me
was that the only reason why did he is facing
five federal criminal charges and facing life in prison is
because Cassie Ventura filed that civil lawsuit. Because we heard
that investigators were not looking into him whatsoever until she
(01:46):
filed that lawsuit. That was a bombshell for me.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
You know, I didn't know about this lady. For me
yesterday that stood out this woman that that was a
forensic psychologist, psychiatrist, excuse me, that testified. She testified about
use victims and relationships. I didn't realize that this star
witness is a really star witness. She has testified in
the amber her Johnny Depp trial, and she testified in
(02:12):
the r Kelly trial and here she is now testifying here.
So it made me look into her a little more.
I was like, Wow, who is this lady? So her
testimony and how much they had to stop yesterday because
of her testimony is really fascinating. We get into all that,
and sure enough, yesterday before we had George Gerard Gannon,
I should say he was testifying the day before, so
(02:33):
he continued his testimony yesterday at the start of the day.
But before they even got into that rose there was
some fighting among the lawyers trying to figure out a
particular piece of evidence, whether or not they want to
have it in how the jury.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Here, Yeah, because it was an exchange between Diddy and
Kim Porter, that is, the late mother of his children,
and the prosecution was concerned that if this evidence of
this exchange between the two was allowed into evidence, that
the jury might actually sympathize with Ditty because he is
the last remaining parent to the kids those two share
(03:11):
because Kim, of course tragically died complications it was influenced
pneumonia several years back. And so yes, they would literally
not have an available parent if Diddy is sent to
prison for the rest of his life.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
You know what, they have to think about things like this,
But they are aware they don't want the jury to
be sympathetic to the kids. This is a thing that's
a part of trials jury sympathy. But you know what,
as a huge you think about you stop and think
about the kids. Well, it doesn't matter about whoever, what
crime and who you can't help, But as a human being, think, man,
(03:45):
they lost, they don't have their mom and now a
decision I am going to make might take their dad
away from them. You can't as a human being. I
know he's just supposed to do your job, but you
can't help. But have that thought.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
And those kids are front row and center for those
jurors to see. They can look at their facial expressions,
they can see their pain, their discomfort. They are there
for the jury to see each and every day. And
a lot of people have questioned the parenting style of
someone who allow his children to hear some of this
graphic really difficult testimony for any one of us to hear,
(04:19):
let alone a child hearing that about their parent. And
yet they are there and it could be strategic, it
could just be support. We can't get into the minds
of who decided what, when and how or who should
be there, but they are there in the courtroom.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
We've seen this a loving look. We watch see it
dramatized on television all the time trials, but you and
I have witnessed a fair share of trials live in
our day, and there's always these sidebars. There's always these
little conversations. They have to keep sending the jury out
sometimes so the lawyers can fighte about something. It goes
on and on, but it just everything matters.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
This is subjective. I mean, all the truth is. All
that Diddy's legal team needs is one juror to not
be s sure, one juror to be sympathetic. One juror
can hang this jury and change everything for the prosecution.
So yes, they have to pay attention to every single detail.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
You know, I get a sense, and I'm starting to
get more and more text messages and conversations I'm having
with my friends. I am looking at one from eleven
o'clock last night. You know my boy. I won't say
his name here. I think Diddy is going to walk.
I'm starting to get more messages like that. Don't get
me wrong, the trial is not over. We're very early,
just a few weeks in. But there's for whatever reason,
there's some tone or something that's out there. It's not
(05:36):
just a matter of we love Diddy, We love Ditty.
There's there's a conversation that's being had about Wait a minute, yes,
domestic violence, knock yourself.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Out, drugs.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
I think a lot of people just don't understand racketeering
and sex trafficing, Like what are we talking. I think
that's confusing some people. But it's been interesting to get
that feedback.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
It's interesting you got that feedback while the prosecution is
still in the early stages and already held their star witness.
But seriously, already had their star witness testify. We haven't
even had the defense yet present its case. I mean
they've been able to cross examine, of course, But that
is interesting you got that message when it's still in
the middle, in the early stages, really, even of the
prosecution's case.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, they did get going. Like we said, the first
witness they had on the stand was a guy who
had been testifying the previous day, the Homeland Security agent
who led the raid on the Miami home of Ditty.
Now he continued, but he talked more about and look,
we heard about this. A lot of people remember when
that raid happened, and the images and the video that
came out right after that. The first thing you started
(06:36):
hearing about was what baby oil? Maybe baby oil, baby oils.
And this guy kind of went through a lot of
the items they found, and yes, baby oil was mentioned
a bunch.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, he had an evidence bag. And this is kind
of funny to say, but I was kind of surprised
that he only showed thirty one bottles of baby oil
because there were raids on both of Ditty's homes and
I believe the word that was used was thousands of
bottles of baby oil. So perhaps this was just a
one bag. Maybe there multiple bags.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Oh, that was an evidence bag he was showing, but
there was also they show pictures of the closet.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
There were boxes of thousands, thousands, this is correct, but.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, I don't know about thousands, but boxes and boxes.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
That was what I looked up when I went online
because I saw thirty one, just thirty one, which is
a funny thing to even think he only had thirty
one bottles of baby oil.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Well, here's the thing I think about. I am forty seven.
In my entire life, I have not used thirty one
bottles baby oil.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I haven't used one bottle of baby oil.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I don't know if I've used it past a certain age.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I don't know if I've ever used it. I'm gonna
go ahead and say that anyway, that was normal.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
There was one with a pink top and one with
a green top. What was the distinction.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I think one is like for sensitive skin and one's
like baby soft. Okay, you know they make a different sense.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Any number is a wild number of bottles of baby oils.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Me a dozen platform heel shoes in his closet. One
of them I believe was seven inches. So this is
all for play, for play, the aesthetics of what he
was looking for when he was creating these freak coughs.
And then this was a confusing picture in the closet
because yes, you're thinking baby oil, drugs, platform heels. And
then you see two rubber duckies. What was that?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
No, they never mentioned them at all.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I saw them too.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Nobody apparently had anything to say. They had nothing to
do with nothing, but they were in there, and nobody.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
There had to be a reason why rubber duckies were
in the box filled with sex toys, but they weren't.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
They weren't relevant to the testimony. I actually say, I don't.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Want to know. Actually, now that I just said that
sentence out loud. I actually don't want to know what
the rubber duckies were used for.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
We know a nice jacuzzi tub night and have the
duckies in there. It's nice, it could be fun.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Nothing says sexy like a rubber ducky.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I mean, it's just okay, I can't do this with
you right now, but yes, your moment. This is the
guy that gave the moment maybe of the case to
a certain degree. It's just when you get your head
around it's Casey Ventura. If she had not done what
(09:01):
she'd done, when would we have known any of this?
We have ever known any of this. This was remarkable
to hear. A lot of people suspected and thought it
has been talked about and the timing suggested that these
things were related. But he flat out confirmed.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
He flat out confirmed that they did not start investigating.
The federal government did not start investigating Sean. Did he
Combs until Cassie Ventura filed her lawsuit? I bet hearing
that did he thought, man, I should have settled the
second that suit came to me, or the second I
thought she was going to sue. I should have paid
her off because now he is fighting for his life.
(09:36):
It's not about thirty million dollars. That's what she initially asked,
and I think he ended up giving her twenty million,
is what she testified to. I can't help but think
he must be just kicking himself for not going ahead
and saying, all right, I'll give you the book rights
or I'll own the book rights that you would write.
Because this all set off a huge chain of events
(09:56):
that has landed him now behind bars since September YEP
and potentially never seeing the light of day again. I
also think it's interesting because as detective or I don't
know what his actual title is, the homeland security agent
again and said to the jury or testified in court
about the drugs. A Gucci bag in the closet containing pills,
(10:18):
white powder, crystal rock like substances that tested positive for
cocaine and ketamine, traces of MDMA, other drugs that I
can't pronounce were in there. But I'm curious is it
too low brow for federal agents to put drug charges
on him? I know the drugs are important because establishing
that there were drugs there, that's how the prosecution is
(10:39):
claiming he coerced people like Cassie and others to do
his bidding by having them hopped up on drugs. But
I'm just I'm interested, why is that just not even
that too low level? Does that not bring enough time
behind bars? Because clearly they have evidence of drugs and
they never charged him, not with one drug charge.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
It's too small. I think we remember, I mean, he's
facing racketeering charge that mob bosses have faced here in
New York. And what was always a situation, No, I
don't want to get him from, so some low level
drug charge. He goes, spends a six months in jail,
and he's right back out on the street. They always
say it was they want the big fish, and they
want him for the big charge.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
They always got him for tax evasion. I thought, wasn't
that always the case how they got mob bosses. It
was never what they did. It was some other charge
that they could they could nail them on and keep
them in jail for a while.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
You're thinking about Scarface in Chicago. We did that. But
the guys here in New York, they got him on
a rico charge. A whole new law that was created
to actually go for the heads of these organizations I'm sorry.
I'm a little bit of a mob history.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I love that you know that I was mine was
a question. I was just something that I had heard
and seen before.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yes, Capone, he was the one in Chicago. After all
that stuff he did, he went to jail, but.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Taxation left and right, cutting off body parts. But he
got in for tax evasion, but.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
They got him. Uh, the other wood of the day,
I didn't know if we were going to get through
the second witness, Don Hughes is her name, Barros. They
had constant sidebars stopping testimony so they could discuss what
testimony she would be allowed to give. So that lets
you know just how important both sides think this particular
(12:18):
witness had to be. And look, I didn't know this
as well. An interesting nugget. Have you been in a
trial where they use white noise during sidebars?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
You know why I have not been in a trial.
I've you know what, when I have gone to therapy.
This is true. And if you go into one of
these small little doctor's offices, they have white noise machines
in the lobby so that you can't even potentially hear
for privacy, what someone else who might be in the
doctor's office before you spilling their guts to the doctors,
(12:49):
so you can't possibly hear what might be going on
in the room with a psychiatrist or a therapist that
you're about to Anderson. While you're waiting, they have white
noise in the lobby. That's it's the only time I've
seen that.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I can learn so much from you. But I had
no idea that was the case. But they have been
using a white noise machine. They turn it on while
the jury is still in there when the lawyers need
to go have a quick word with the with the judge.
The judge actually cracked a joke yesterday. He cracked a
joke and said, you know what, maybe we need to
get rid of this white noise and maybe do elevator
music instead. You made a little joke about it. But
it's been happening so much that they're doing these sidebars
(13:24):
that they're trying to keep the jury.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yes, that would put me to sleep. Honestly, I use
white noise to go to bed. Babies use it to sleep.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
There is a one report that a juror has been
falling astead. I'm not kidding during her testimony.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
It actually is like that for me, when I hear
white noise, I like brown noise specifically, it's a difference.
It's a slightly different tone that I put on when
I try to go to sleep or if I'm having
a hard time falling asleep.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
What does black noise do there?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I don't know that there is when there's violet, there's brown,
there's white, there's blue. I've not seen black noise.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
We can't get black noise.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Okay, oh my gosh. We digress. But the reason why
doctor Hughes was so important is because she was there
to testify based on her experience, because actually she was
called a blind witness. So she's not spoken to Cassie Ventura,
she's not spoken to John Ditycomb. She's actually not interviewed
any of these women who will see or hear from
(14:14):
later about their trauma, because she says this is just
based on her personal experience as a trauma therapist. She
talked about the trauma bond that happens between abusers and victims,
and she testified that many victims will wait months, even
years before telling anyone what happened to them. And that's
(14:35):
of course, pointing to the fact that Cassie Ventura did
not necessarily say anything. She took a long time for
her to even tell her mother, and certainly she stayed
with him on and off for eleven years, which makes
people question, was she really abused?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Well, we have it seems like we should be past
this as a society. We get this at this point.
We have seen enough, learn enough, read enough. There have
been enough stories, if you will, in high profile ones
about why this takes it. It should come as no
surprise to anyone that a potential abuse victim would stay
in that relationship. So anyone who just say, well, why
(15:10):
didn't you just leave? That's really offensive and ignorant at
this point it is.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
But I do think having someone who has those credentials
telling you as you're listening as a member of the jury,
to keep that in mind, it's almost a reminder, it's
almost a highlighter almost, of what you heard from Cassie
and anything the defense tried to throw at her to
discredit her. It was a reminder that, hey, this is
what happens a lot of times when someone is repeatedly
(15:37):
abused and doesn't have a way out.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Oh that this was the prosecution, Oh they needed this lady.
She needed to be there and absolutely, and she delivered.
He called her a blind witness. She's not supposed to
be there for any she doesn't have a dog in
the fight. She's not there for either side necessarily. But
what is this here? She had four points why victims stay,
how they deal, how they talk about abuse, and how
(16:01):
trauma affects memory. So I, even though we generally understand
why often an abuse victim would stay, I was fascinated
by this lady's testimony to hear her kind of break
these things down and the trauma bond you'd mentioned a
second ago. You think about it, and no, I'm not
going to make that comparison, but point there being, you
(16:22):
go through so much with somebody, incredible highs, the worst
lows of your life, that.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Bonds you because no one else knows what you've been
through except that other person. Even when it was hard,
and even when maybe that person is the reason why
it was so hard, it's still something that the two
of you share that only the two of you actually know.
So that makes total sense to me. And yeah, I
was actually fascinated hearing that. Cassie Ventur testified to this,
(16:50):
as did Don Richard, that the further they get away
from it, the more their memories come back, which is
counterintuitive to how most people would say, you need to
write it down as soon as it happens because you'll forget,
but they actually say when moments of significant trauma, it's
the opposite.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Well, in this they tried to I wouldn't say discredit,
but at least they put on the record. The defense
did let you know who this lady is, and she's
a superstar. She testified in the Depth trial, The Depth
Johnny Depp and I under heard that civil trial, and
she testified in the r Kelly trial, and again she
testified in the Depth herb same thing. Blind witness just
talked about her conclusions to what she sees. She's talking
(17:28):
about conclusions based on behavior and things that she heard.
She doesn't necessarily have to and she made the point,
I don't interview abusers.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yes, she did say that.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
They tried to get at her about so you can't
say anything about doto za da da da. Yeah, I
don't do that. I don't go interview abuse. She did
yeh a response for that and her rate does it matter? Yes,
she gets paid. But they tried to make a point
tried to discredit her, maybe say she's just here for money,
but she gets paid six grand a day.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I think that, you know, I mean, obviously she's good
at what she does, and she's considered knowledgeable and an
expert at Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
The last witness of the day. We'll get through here
fairly quickly. George Kaplan is the name and robes. We
didn't know if he was going to excuse me. We
knew he was going to get on the stand. We
didn't know if he was going to say anything because
he had he wasn't coursed to get up there, but the.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Impelled incentivized, incentivized. Yes. So when he first was put
on the witness stand, he invoked his Fifth Amendment right
to not testify because he because of potential self incrimination. Basically,
he knew what he did was illegal, and if he
testified to what he saw from Sean Diddy Combs and
how he participated in some of these activities, he would
(18:48):
then be basically incriminating himself and he didn't want to
do so. So the judge said he would sign an
immunity order that would require Kaplan to testify and he
would then receive immunity for any illegal deeds he did.
And so then yes, we did hear him testify. He
talked about working eighty to one hundred hours a week
for Diddy.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
What's that math? That's average? What a day? I'd be
working five days a week? Is that even possible?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Or is he working seven days?
Speaker 1 (19:15):
It was probably seven.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I guarantee it seven days a week.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
But you know what does that average out to a day?
And we're trying to do math.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I mean, that's more than ten hours a day. It
could be like fifteen hours a day. But he said
day started at nine am, and they could maybe on
a good day they end at six pm. But on
a bad day, I saw he stayed up as late
as seven am, so nine am to seven am. So
on his worst day, he did twenty two hours straight.
And he talked about carrying bags of everything that did
(19:42):
he might need. That would include an iPad, snacks, drugs,
you know, anything that did he might need. And if
he didn't get it right, well he got he knew
really quickly.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
He only worked one for I think a fifteen month period,
so a year and a half even, and he said
every month, once a month, at least once a month,
did he with threaten to fire him? Now, okay, fine
and crazy boss and this and that, but listen to
this story he told He said on one of those
times that he was threatened with firing, he was threatened
(20:17):
to be fired because he went to the store. He
was instructed to get a gallon, robes, a gallon of
water in a BPA free water bottle. That's the assignment.
So he went to Whole.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Foods, and Whole Foods only had half gallon bottles. So
he thought, this is an easy solution. I'm going to
bring back two half gallon bottles in a BPA free
water bottle.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Prompts off, all good, it's a gallon of water.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Did He was not happy? And apparently and that occasion
got in his face, like inches from his face, screaming
at him, threatening to fire him because he didn't bring
back one gallon. Instead he brought back two half gallons.
It speaks to the to the environment that a lot
of these folks were living in.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
It's wild. Now we've been talking to so we've been
doing so many deep dives and talking to people who
are in Diddy's world to hear that this was all
on display on making the band.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
You're not surprised because you watched the show. I did not.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
This is right in line, but we watched it and
were entertained and for some reason thought this is what
it takes in the industry. I watched that show and
was never at any point uncomfortable or dismissive of him.
And I think, wow, who is Aubrey Ode who we've
been talking to and doing a separate show with her
talking and covering the trial. She was one that said,
(21:36):
this guy, the environment that they were in is like
nothing you've ever seen before, Like it's hard. They keep saying,
it's hard to describe what was taking place. So we
hear she said, we were all complicit because we just.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Watched it and the ratings were good, and they kept
getting rid of it.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Four or five seasons of that show.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Nobody called him out on it.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
He was the king of New York at the time.
And just so I think back to that show and
maybe it might be out there somewhere, still streaming somewhere.
I would be curious to what people think about it.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
If you watch it now back and see in the
context in which you know what was actually happening behind
the scenes. When the cameras turned off or different cameras
turned off. Perhaps I should say, but I think that
might be eye opening for a lot of folks. I
would definitely be willing to watch it now knowing what
we've heard.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
What else came out here, this was interesting. Frank Black
was his alias when he checked into hotels. A lot
of people hear that and go oh, we do that.
Other people who are fans of his music over the years,
in particularly Notorious Big, will hear that and go oh okay.
Frank White was an alias that Notorious Big used in
all of his albums. Frank White was a character from
(22:52):
a gangster movie called King of New York, so he
was calling himself the King of New York by calling
him Frank himself Frank White in his his music. So
now Diddy as an alias when he checks in uses
Frank Black. It's not that creative, but you get it.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I really appreciate that context because I knew none of
the above. So that is interesting, especially for people who
have nothing to base anything on. I did not know.
So anyway, the trial is going on right now. The
government right now said they have their planning for five
witnesses to take the stand today, and that includes the
one we're all kind of waiting for Kid Cutty Rapper,
(23:28):
who we've heard from Cassie Ventur. She was dating him
for a while at the same time she was doing
freak offs with Diddy, So this was a source of
rage and jealousy between the two. And I'm sure Kid
Cutty has perhaps a few things to say. He didn't
want to testify either. None of these folks wanted to testify.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Nothing with this world and this guy nothing.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
But they are being paraded now in a Manhattan federal courtroom,
and frankly, I can just speak for myself personally, I
cannot wait to hear what he.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Has to And he's the one who's who had his
h an explosion of some kind in his car after
did he made a threat about possibly his car blowing up.
Now we talked about earlier robes did see this detail
as well, like how the lawyers having sidebars and how
important is every little detail They have already had a
debate whether or not Kid cutting can talk about the
(24:22):
impact that explosion had on his dog because they're afraid
that there might be pet owners in the jury who
might be sympathetic to something is that not why this is?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
That speaks to what they're dealing with, and it could
be something as simple as that that could change it
ROR's mind.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
That's what's at stake. This guy's life is on the line,
and it's all of that is at stake. So, folks,
we appreciate you continuing to listen, and you all it
seems robes, folks seem to be curious. We have been
keeping an eye on. We would have stopped doing this
if nobody was listening. So no, we know you all
are are listening and apparently somebody appreciating it, So we
(25:01):
thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, I have a wonderful day today, and keep on
listening because we're going to keep on telling you what
happened each day in the Didy trial. Have a wonderful Thursday, everyone,
Hey there, everybody, and welcome to this episode of Aiming
and TJ. It is Thursday, May twenty second. The Diddy
trial continues here in Lower Manhattan where it's been a dreary, cold,
wintery day here in late May. Robes, it's really kind
of miserable here and this trial continues again. As we say,
(00:23):
we can see it right out the window for the
most part, just a few buildings are in our way
between here and that and that courthouse. But Robes, we
have been doing this now is you coined it? You
said this is kind of a one stop shop because
it is confusing for people to try to find so
many sources, so many websites, to try to piece together
exactly what happened in court.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
That's right. There aren't cameras in the courtroom, and so
you have reporters who give live updates and you actually,
I've found that we've had to go into multiple different
sites to piecemeal like minute by minute almost what's happened,
and who's recorded what, and who's impressed by or taken
by something. So so yes, this is all encompassing one
stop shop. You want to know what happened during the testimony,
(01:05):
We've got it for you all of the bullet points.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
And yes, as we sit here as of this recording,
another day of testimony is underway, so it is ongoing
as we speak. But another full day of testimony is
in the books. That was yesterday. Several witnesses on the stand,
what stood out to you yesterday? Wrote?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I think the big thing that stood out to me
was that the only reason why did he is facing
five federal criminal charges and facing life in prison is
because Cassie Ventura filed that civil lawsuit. Because we heard
that investigators were not looking into him whatsoever until she
(01:46):
filed that lawsuit. That was a bombshell for me.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
You know, I didn't know about this lady. For me
yesterday that stood out this woman that that was a
forensic psychologist, psychiatrist, excuse me, that testified. She testified about
use victims and relationships. I didn't realize that this star
witness is a really star witness. She has testified in
the amber her Johnny Depp trial, and she testified in
(02:12):
the r Kelly trial and here she is now testifying here.
So it made me look into her a little more.
I was like, Wow, who is this lady? So her
testimony and how much they had to stop yesterday because
of her testimony is really fascinating. We get into all that,
and sure enough, yesterday before we had George Gerard Gannon,
I should say he was testifying the day before, so
(02:33):
he continued his testimony yesterday at the start of the day.
But before they even got into that rose there was
some fighting among the lawyers trying to figure out a
particular piece of evidence, whether or not they want to
have it in how the jury.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Here, Yeah, because it was an exchange between Diddy and
Kim Porter, that is, the late mother of his children,
and the prosecution was concerned that if this evidence of
this exchange between the two was allowed into evidence, that
the jury might actually sympathize with Ditty because he is
the last remaining parent to the kids those two share
(03:11):
because Kim, of course tragically died complications it was influenced
pneumonia several years back. And so yes, they would literally
not have an available parent if Diddy is sent to
prison for the rest of his life.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
You know what, they have to think about things like this,
But they are aware they don't want the jury to
be sympathetic to the kids. This is a thing that's
a part of trials jury sympathy. But you know what,
as a huge you think about you stop and think
about the kids. Well, it doesn't matter about whoever, what
crime and who you can't help, But as a human being, think, man,
(03:45):
they lost, they don't have their mom and now a
decision I am going to make might take their dad
away from them. You can't as a human being. I
know he's just supposed to do your job, but you
can't help. But have that thought.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
And those kids are front row and center for those
jurors to see. They can look at their facial expressions,
they can see their pain, their discomfort. They are there
for the jury to see each and every day. And
a lot of people have questioned the parenting style of
someone who allow his children to hear some of this
graphic really difficult testimony for any one of us to hear,
(04:19):
let alone a child hearing that about their parent. And
yet they are there and it could be strategic, it
could just be support. We can't get into the minds
of who decided what, when and how or who should
be there, but they are there in the courtroom.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
We've seen this a loving look. We watch see it
dramatized on television all the time trials, but you and
I have witnessed a fair share of trials live in
our day, and there's always these sidebars. There's always these
little conversations. They have to keep sending the jury out
sometimes so the lawyers can fighte about something. It goes
on and on, but it just everything matters.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
This is subjective. I mean, all the truth is. All
that Diddy's legal team needs is one juror to not
be s sure, one juror to be sympathetic. One juror
can hang this jury and change everything for the prosecution.
So yes, they have to pay attention to every single detail.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
You know, I get a sense, and I'm starting to
get more and more text messages and conversations I'm having
with my friends. I am looking at one from eleven
o'clock last night. You know my boy. I won't say
his name here. I think Diddy is going to walk.
I'm starting to get more messages like that. Don't get
me wrong, the trial is not over. We're very early,
just a few weeks in. But there's for whatever reason,
there's some tone or something that's out there. It's not
(05:36):
just a matter of we love Diddy, We love Ditty.
There's there's a conversation that's being had about Wait a minute, yes,
domestic violence, knock yourself.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Out, drugs.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
I think a lot of people just don't understand racketeering
and sex trafficing, Like what are we talking. I think
that's confusing some people. But it's been interesting to get
that feedback.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
It's interesting you got that feedback while the prosecution is
still in the early stages and already held their star witness.
But seriously, already had their star witness testify. We haven't
even had the defense yet present its case. I mean
they've been able to cross examine, of course, But that
is interesting you got that message when it's still in
the middle, in the early stages, really, even of the
prosecution's case.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, they did get going. Like we said, the first
witness they had on the stand was a guy who
had been testifying the previous day, the Homeland Security agent
who led the raid on the Miami home of Ditty.
Now he continued, but he talked more about and look,
we heard about this. A lot of people remember when
that raid happened, and the images and the video that
came out right after that. The first thing you started
(06:36):
hearing about was what baby oil? Maybe baby oil, baby oils.
And this guy kind of went through a lot of
the items they found, and yes, baby oil was mentioned
a bunch.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, he had an evidence bag. And this is kind
of funny to say, but I was kind of surprised
that he only showed thirty one bottles of baby oil
because there were raids on both of Ditty's homes and
I believe the word that was used was thousands of
bottles of baby oil. So perhaps this was just a
one bag. Maybe there multiple bags.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Oh, that was an evidence bag he was showing, but
there was also they show pictures of the closet.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
There were boxes of thousands, thousands, this is correct, but.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, I don't know about thousands, but boxes and boxes.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
That was what I looked up when I went online
because I saw thirty one, just thirty one, which is
a funny thing to even think he only had thirty
one bottles of baby oil.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Well, here's the thing I think about. I am forty seven.
In my entire life, I have not used thirty one
bottles baby oil.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I haven't used one bottle of baby oil.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I don't know if I've used it past a certain age.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I don't know if I've ever used it. I'm gonna
go ahead and say that anyway, that was normal.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
There was one with a pink top and one with
a green top. What was the distinction.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I think one is like for sensitive skin and one's
like baby soft. Okay, you know they make a different sense.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Any number is a wild number of bottles of baby oils.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Me a dozen platform heel shoes in his closet. One
of them I believe was seven inches. So this is
all for play, for play, the aesthetics of what he
was looking for when he was creating these freak coughs.
And then this was a confusing picture in the closet
because yes, you're thinking baby oil, drugs, platform heels. And
then you see two rubber duckies. What was that?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
No, they never mentioned them at all.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I saw them too.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Nobody apparently had anything to say. They had nothing to
do with nothing, but they were in there, and nobody.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
There had to be a reason why rubber duckies were
in the box filled with sex toys, but they weren't.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
They weren't relevant to the testimony. I actually say, I don't.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Want to know. Actually, now that I just said that
sentence out loud. I actually don't want to know what
the rubber duckies were used for.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
We know a nice jacuzzi tub night and have the
duckies in there. It's nice, it could be fun.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Nothing says sexy like a rubber ducky.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I mean, it's just okay, I can't do this with
you right now, but yes, your moment. This is the
guy that gave the moment maybe of the case to
a certain degree. It's just when you get your head
around it's Casey Ventura. If she had not done what
(09:01):
she'd done, when would we have known any of this?
We have ever known any of this. This was remarkable
to hear. A lot of people suspected and thought it
has been talked about and the timing suggested that these
things were related. But he flat out confirmed.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
He flat out confirmed that they did not start investigating.
The federal government did not start investigating Sean. Did he
Combs until Cassie Ventura filed her lawsuit? I bet hearing
that did he thought, man, I should have settled the
second that suit came to me, or the second I
thought she was going to sue. I should have paid
her off because now he is fighting for his life.
(09:36):
It's not about thirty million dollars. That's what she initially asked,
and I think he ended up giving her twenty million,
is what she testified to. I can't help but think
he must be just kicking himself for not going ahead
and saying, all right, I'll give you the book rights
or I'll own the book rights that you would write.
Because this all set off a huge chain of events
(09:56):
that has landed him now behind bars since September YEP
and potentially never seeing the light of day again. I
also think it's interesting because as detective or I don't
know what his actual title is, the homeland security agent
again and said to the jury or testified in court
about the drugs. A Gucci bag in the closet containing pills,
(10:18):
white powder, crystal rock like substances that tested positive for
cocaine and ketamine, traces of MDMA, other drugs that I
can't pronounce were in there. But I'm curious is it
too low brow for federal agents to put drug charges
on him? I know the drugs are important because establishing
that there were drugs there, that's how the prosecution is
(10:39):
claiming he coerced people like Cassie and others to do
his bidding by having them hopped up on drugs. But
I'm just I'm interested, why is that just not even
that too low level? Does that not bring enough time
behind bars? Because clearly they have evidence of drugs and
they never charged him, not with one drug charge.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
It's too small. I think we remember, I mean, he's
facing racketeering charge that mob bosses have faced here in
New York. And what was always a situation, No, I
don't want to get him from, so some low level
drug charge. He goes, spends a six months in jail,
and he's right back out on the street. They always
say it was they want the big fish, and they
want him for the big charge.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
They always got him for tax evasion. I thought, wasn't
that always the case how they got mob bosses. It
was never what they did. It was some other charge
that they could they could nail them on and keep
them in jail for a while.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
You're thinking about Scarface in Chicago. We did that. But
the guys here in New York, they got him on
a rico charge. A whole new law that was created
to actually go for the heads of these organizations I'm sorry.
I'm a little bit of a mob history.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I love that you know that I was mine was
a question. I was just something that I had heard
and seen before.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yes, Capone, he was the one in Chicago. After all
that stuff he did, he went to jail, but.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Taxation left and right, cutting off body parts. But he
got in for tax evasion, but.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
They got him. Uh, the other wood of the day,
I didn't know if we were going to get through
the second witness, Don Hughes is her name, Barros. They
had constant sidebars stopping testimony so they could discuss what
testimony she would be allowed to give. So that lets
you know just how important both sides think this particular
(12:18):
witness had to be. And look, I didn't know this
as well. An interesting nugget. Have you been in a
trial where they use white noise during sidebars?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
You know why I have not been in a trial.
I've you know what, when I have gone to therapy.
This is true. And if you go into one of
these small little doctor's offices, they have white noise machines
in the lobby so that you can't even potentially hear
for privacy, what someone else who might be in the
doctor's office before you spilling their guts to the doctors,
(12:49):
so you can't possibly hear what might be going on
in the room with a psychiatrist or a therapist that
you're about to Anderson. While you're waiting, they have white
noise in the lobby. That's it's the only time I've
seen that.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I can learn so much from you. But I had
no idea that was the case. But they have been
using a white noise machine. They turn it on while
the jury is still in there when the lawyers need
to go have a quick word with the with the judge.
The judge actually cracked a joke yesterday. He cracked a
joke and said, you know what, maybe we need to
get rid of this white noise and maybe do elevator
music instead. You made a little joke about it. But
it's been happening so much that they're doing these sidebars
(13:24):
that they're trying to keep the jury.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yes, that would put me to sleep. Honestly, I use
white noise to go to bed. Babies use it to sleep.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
There is a one report that a juror has been
falling astead. I'm not kidding during her testimony.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
It actually is like that for me, when I hear
white noise, I like brown noise specifically, it's a difference.
It's a slightly different tone that I put on when
I try to go to sleep or if I'm having
a hard time falling asleep.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
What does black noise do there?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I don't know that there is when there's violet, there's brown,
there's white, there's blue. I've not seen black noise.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
We can't get black noise.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Okay, oh my gosh. We digress. But the reason why
doctor Hughes was so important is because she was there
to testify based on her experience, because actually she was
called a blind witness. So she's not spoken to Cassie Ventura,
she's not spoken to John Ditycomb. She's actually not interviewed
any of these women who will see or hear from
(14:14):
later about their trauma, because she says this is just
based on her personal experience as a trauma therapist. She
talked about the trauma bond that happens between abusers and victims,
and she testified that many victims will wait months, even
years before telling anyone what happened to them. And that's
(14:35):
of course, pointing to the fact that Cassie Ventura did
not necessarily say anything. She took a long time for
her to even tell her mother, and certainly she stayed
with him on and off for eleven years, which makes
people question, was she really abused?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Well, we have it seems like we should be past
this as a society. We get this at this point.
We have seen enough, learn enough, read enough. There have
been enough stories, if you will, in high profile ones
about why this takes it. It should come as no
surprise to anyone that a potential abuse victim would stay
in that relationship. So anyone who just say, well, why
(15:10):
didn't you just leave? That's really offensive and ignorant at
this point it is.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
But I do think having someone who has those credentials
telling you as you're listening as a member of the jury,
to keep that in mind, it's almost a reminder, it's
almost a highlighter almost, of what you heard from Cassie
and anything the defense tried to throw at her to
discredit her. It was a reminder that, hey, this is
what happens a lot of times when someone is repeatedly
(15:37):
abused and doesn't have a way out.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Oh that this was the prosecution, Oh they needed this lady.
She needed to be there and absolutely, and she delivered.
He called her a blind witness. She's not supposed to
be there for any she doesn't have a dog in
the fight. She's not there for either side necessarily. But
what is this here? She had four points why victims stay,
how they deal, how they talk about abuse, and how
(16:01):
trauma affects memory. So I, even though we generally understand
why often an abuse victim would stay, I was fascinated
by this lady's testimony to hear her kind of break
these things down and the trauma bond you'd mentioned a
second ago. You think about it, and no, I'm not
going to make that comparison, but point there being, you
(16:22):
go through so much with somebody, incredible highs, the worst
lows of your life, that.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Bonds you because no one else knows what you've been
through except that other person. Even when it was hard,
and even when maybe that person is the reason why
it was so hard, it's still something that the two
of you share that only the two of you actually know.
So that makes total sense to me. And yeah, I
was actually fascinated hearing that. Cassie Ventur testified to this,
(16:50):
as did Don Richard, that the further they get away
from it, the more their memories come back, which is
counterintuitive to how most people would say, you need to
write it down as soon as it happens because you'll forget,
but they actually say when moments of significant trauma, it's
the opposite.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Well, in this they tried to I wouldn't say discredit,
but at least they put on the record. The defense
did let you know who this lady is, and she's
a superstar. She testified in the Depth trial, The Depth
Johnny Depp and I under heard that civil trial, and
she testified in the r Kelly trial, and again she
testified in the Depth herb same thing. Blind witness just
talked about her conclusions to what she sees. She's talking
(17:28):
about conclusions based on behavior and things that she heard.
She doesn't necessarily have to and she made the point,
I don't interview abusers.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yes, she did say that.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
They tried to get at her about so you can't
say anything about doto za da da da. Yeah, I
don't do that. I don't go interview abuse. She did
yeh a response for that and her rate does it matter? Yes,
she gets paid. But they tried to make a point
tried to discredit her, maybe say she's just here for money,
but she gets paid six grand a day.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I think that, you know, I mean, obviously she's good
at what she does, and she's considered knowledgeable and an
expert at Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
The last witness of the day. We'll get through here
fairly quickly. George Kaplan is the name and robes. We
didn't know if he was going to excuse me. We
knew he was going to get on the stand. We
didn't know if he was going to say anything because
he had he wasn't coursed to get up there, but the.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Impelled incentivized, incentivized. Yes. So when he first was put
on the witness stand, he invoked his Fifth Amendment right
to not testify because he because of potential self incrimination. Basically,
he knew what he did was illegal, and if he
testified to what he saw from Sean Diddy Combs and
how he participated in some of these activities, he would
(18:48):
then be basically incriminating himself and he didn't want to
do so. So the judge said he would sign an
immunity order that would require Kaplan to testify and he
would then receive immunity for any illegal deeds he did.
And so then yes, we did hear him testify. He
talked about working eighty to one hundred hours a week
for Diddy.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
What's that math? That's average? What a day? I'd be
working five days a week? Is that even possible?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Or is he working seven days?
Speaker 1 (19:15):
It was probably seven.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I guarantee it seven days a week.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
But you know what does that average out to a day?
And we're trying to do math.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I mean, that's more than ten hours a day. It
could be like fifteen hours a day. But he said
day started at nine am, and they could maybe on
a good day they end at six pm. But on
a bad day, I saw he stayed up as late
as seven am, so nine am to seven am. So
on his worst day, he did twenty two hours straight.
And he talked about carrying bags of everything that did
(19:42):
he might need. That would include an iPad, snacks, drugs,
you know, anything that did he might need. And if
he didn't get it right, well he got he knew
really quickly.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
He only worked one for I think a fifteen month period,
so a year and a half even, and he said
every month, once a month, at least once a month,
did he with threaten to fire him? Now, okay, fine
and crazy boss and this and that, but listen to
this story he told He said on one of those
times that he was threatened with firing, he was threatened
(20:17):
to be fired because he went to the store. He
was instructed to get a gallon, robes, a gallon of
water in a BPA free water bottle. That's the assignment.
So he went to Whole.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Foods, and Whole Foods only had half gallon bottles. So
he thought, this is an easy solution. I'm going to
bring back two half gallon bottles in a BPA free
water bottle.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Prompts off, all good, it's a gallon of water.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Did He was not happy? And apparently and that occasion
got in his face, like inches from his face, screaming
at him, threatening to fire him because he didn't bring
back one gallon. Instead he brought back two half gallons.
It speaks to the to the environment that a lot
of these folks were living in.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
It's wild. Now we've been talking to so we've been
doing so many deep dives and talking to people who
are in Diddy's world to hear that this was all
on display on making the band.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
You're not surprised because you watched the show. I did not.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
This is right in line, but we watched it and
were entertained and for some reason thought this is what
it takes in the industry. I watched that show and
was never at any point uncomfortable or dismissive of him.
And I think, wow, who is Aubrey Ode who we've
been talking to and doing a separate show with her
talking and covering the trial. She was one that said,
(21:36):
this guy, the environment that they were in is like
nothing you've ever seen before, Like it's hard. They keep saying,
it's hard to describe what was taking place. So we
hear she said, we were all complicit because we just.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Watched it and the ratings were good, and they kept
getting rid of it.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Four or five seasons of that show.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Nobody called him out on it.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
He was the king of New York at the time.
And just so I think back to that show and
maybe it might be out there somewhere, still streaming somewhere.
I would be curious to what people think about it.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
If you watch it now back and see in the
context in which you know what was actually happening behind
the scenes. When the cameras turned off or different cameras
turned off. Perhaps I should say, but I think that
might be eye opening for a lot of folks. I
would definitely be willing to watch it now knowing what
we've heard.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
What else came out here, this was interesting. Frank Black
was his alias when he checked into hotels. A lot
of people hear that and go oh, we do that.
Other people who are fans of his music over the years,
in particularly Notorious Big, will hear that and go oh okay.
Frank White was an alias that Notorious Big used in
all of his albums. Frank White was a character from
(22:52):
a gangster movie called King of New York, so he
was calling himself the King of New York by calling
him Frank himself Frank White in his his music. So
now Diddy as an alias when he checks in uses
Frank Black. It's not that creative, but you get it.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I really appreciate that context because I knew none of
the above. So that is interesting, especially for people who
have nothing to base anything on. I did not know.
So anyway, the trial is going on right now. The
government right now said they have their planning for five
witnesses to take the stand today, and that includes the
one we're all kind of waiting for Kid Cutty Rapper,
(23:28):
who we've heard from Cassie Ventur. She was dating him
for a while at the same time she was doing
freak offs with Diddy, So this was a source of
rage and jealousy between the two. And I'm sure Kid
Cutty has perhaps a few things to say. He didn't
want to testify either. None of these folks wanted to testify.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Nothing with this world and this guy nothing.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
But they are being paraded now in a Manhattan federal courtroom,
and frankly, I can just speak for myself personally, I
cannot wait to hear what he.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Has to And he's the one who's who had his
h an explosion of some kind in his car after
did he made a threat about possibly his car blowing up.
Now we talked about earlier robes did see this detail
as well, like how the lawyers having sidebars and how
important is every little detail They have already had a
debate whether or not Kid cutting can talk about the
(24:22):
impact that explosion had on his dog because they're afraid
that there might be pet owners in the jury who
might be sympathetic to something is that not why this is?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
That speaks to what they're dealing with, and it could
be something as simple as that that could change it
ROR's mind.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
That's what's at stake. This guy's life is on the line,
and it's all of that is at stake. So, folks,
we appreciate you continuing to listen, and you all it
seems robes, folks seem to be curious. We have been
keeping an eye on. We would have stopped doing this
if nobody was listening. So no, we know you all
are are listening and apparently somebody appreciating it, So we
(25:01):
thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, I have a wonderful day today, and keep on
listening because we're going to keep on telling you what
happened each day in the Didy trial. Have a wonderful Thursday, everyone,
Hosts And Creators
Amy Robach
T.J. Holmes
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