July 16, 2024 • 48 mins
Amy and T.J. are covering all the breaking news.
They are asking the tough questions and having the much needed conversation about this weekends events with people who were there.
Plus, an update from the convention.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, the folks.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
In this episode, Robot and I continue our travels in Italy,
but we take a break from hanging out with Italians
because we wanted to talk to three Americans, but not
just any three Americans.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Three in particular. Two of them were there at that
Trump rally where he was shot, and the other was
at the R and C convention on night one for
a hell of a moment when Trump walked in and
with that, Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ.
Coming to you today from Rome, and it is weird.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Rose.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
We've been here for a while now, it's gonna be
a week and a half here pretty soon, and we
have taken a break to do some work. But it's
not a complaint that we took a break, and we
shouldn't be celebrated for doing so. We actually wanted to
be more engaged. What's going on at home?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Yeah, I think we talked about it in the last podcast.
As journalist, you know when major events happen and you're
not home or you're going to wherever the event took place.
And so now to be in this situation, yes we're
on vacation, but we still very much want to be
a part of what's happening back home, what's happening politically,
what's happening to so many Americans. This is something the
(01:16):
attempted assassination of President Trump or former President Trump has
affected everybody in some way, and so we wanted to
hear from the people who were there when it happened
and who are following where the politics are taking us
from that moment on.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
You know, I we've all had this moment, no matter
who you are, We've all called back home to fail. Right.
You move away from home and something happened. They tell
you your aunt's an hospital, well, your grandfather's sick or
something going on, and you call, you talk to your
mom and dad, and they always tell you the same thing.
You know, it's no reason to early come home. There's
nothing you can do right now, but you always feel
(01:50):
that pool and want to be back home. It's an
odd comparison, but that's what it feels like being here
in Italy when so much is happening back home.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Right, and so much of it is going to affect
all of our lives, and it's you know, I'm curious,
as I think a lot of people are, as to
whether or not this tragic event. I mean, a man
lost his life, the shooter, his family is dealing with
the aftermath of that, and then of course you've got
two people critically injured. Still, so you know, this is
a serious like and an almost an unprecedented Ronald Reagan
(02:21):
back in nineteen eighty one. And so the truth of
the matter is we have been so politically divided as
a nation and it's just gotten worse and worse and worse.
And so the question is, with what happened at that
political rally in Pennsylvania, does it make the things get
even worse? Do people start pointing fingers even more? Do
we blame one another for this young man's decision? Or
(02:42):
is this a moment of being actually able to put
some of the mud slinging away, to find some sort
of unity or at least having a more civil conversation
about what each presidential candidate could bring to this country
instead of showing each other you know how horrible the
other is.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I mean, I'm just let's go which way is it
going to go?
Speaker 4 (03:03):
I think initially people will fill that sense of you know,
we are on America. Let's let's tone down the rhetoric.
Let's let's change how we're talking about one another, how
we're describing political parties us versus them. But then eventually
I fear that it will turn and it might even
get out later.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
See, I can't, can't. I'm not gonna be able to
remember the journalist's name. It wasn't an on air of
someone who was prominent, but I believe was just fired
or at least suspended reprimanded for a social media post
in which I guess they thought they were being funny,
but was almost complaining that the guy was a bad shot.
Oh my god, that kind of stuff. That's awful, that
(03:40):
kind of stuff. And again, this is only the one
that I saw, but I bet there's a lot of
that kind of stuff out there. A lot is going
to weigh on what Trump does on at Thornz convention.
What is that speech going to sound like and look like?
But what do you compare? What was it? I remember
nine to eleven. There's something since nine eleven, but we
came together at nine eleven. Absolute like nobody's business as
(04:02):
a country didn't last that long. I remember the politicians
coming out on the steps of the Capitol and they
all I think they're saying that godless murders did something right,
and that was like, Wow, what unity did it in
the last three months?
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I didn't last very long at all. Yeah, at that point, wasn't.
President Bush had the highest OBAL rating out of any
recent president because of that sense of unity and that
we had to band together as a country. But this
is really disturbing on so many levels. Think about all
the school shootings that we've covered. You know, it was
again fingerpointing between you know, should ar fifteens be allowed
(04:36):
in just baldy u WALDI, I mean, my god.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Baby's kill and we still didn't necessarily come together as
a country to do anything about.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
No. I remember interviewing the mayor of Uvaldi and he
was blaming everything but the guns and got really upset
with me when I pushed back a little bit, and
it just it felt even more divisive. So sadly, a
lot of this violence that we've seen has not done that.
Maybe the in me is hopeful that maybe this time
it could be different, because this is such a serious.
(05:04):
We we're talking millimeters away. We can ending president former
President Trump's life. Klimeters.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
We can't be taking a shot, said no, leaders, we
just that just can't be done. And you said something,
I hadn't thought about that young man's family. Right, he's dead.
They've lost someone. That's tragic enough, but now all the
scrutiny and the I mean, when could those folks ever
get their lives back. I have no idea who these
people are, what they're about, where they're from, who how
(05:30):
good of folks they are. But I'm at this point
at least being as a human being and thinking about
that is a young man. I have no idea what's
going on his life, but his family now is dealing
with something I can't imagine. Maybe some people think that's
not what we should be talking about today, but I
think that's a part of all of our conversations, is
that we have got to consider everybody in it. And
(05:52):
don't get me wrong, he's not the forefront of people's
mind and sympathy. But at the same time, there are
just so many people impacted in such a significant way,
in a personal way, and I can't imagine what this
family is dealing with, his community, his high school, his friends.
Everybody is confused and hurt and saddened, and a lot
of people want to take a lot of anger out
on the people that were close to him, with him
(06:13):
and his family. So we'll see how that happens, which is.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
The exact opposite of what I think so many people
would hope could happen, where there's empathy, sympathy, and curiosity
in the sense of how we always have this conversation,
how could we have prevented it? Were there signs? All
of those things. Those are good conversations to have, But
it's still frustrating, nonetheless, and it's still a very frightening
time we're in right now from a political standpoint, which
(06:38):
affects every single person in this country. To think that
we have been prosecuting politicians and politicians family members and
now it's just elevated from the court system to now
gun vis it's just awful.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
But with that, and I know a lot of folks
listen to us, I've seen probably everybody listening to us
has seen more bridge then we have because we are
here it is where we haven't been able to get
American television for the most part, and just was able
to watch a little bit on that the morning after.
But there are I know a lot of folks that
(07:12):
heard reports and eyewitness accounts and so we're going to
let you hear from We're going to let you hear conversations.
We had with two folks who were at the rally.
One of them, I believe you said, he was only
eight or ten rows back, so he just fairly folks.
But the other is a political report, a long time
political reporter, who was at the R and C convention. Now,
how many do you even know how many conventions?
Speaker 4 (07:35):
You No, there have been several, and they're all usually,
you know, they're filled with pomp and circumstance. They have
the four day rundown, you have obviously we hear who
the vice presidential nominee or the candidate is going to
be on the non incumbent side, So there's just protocol,
and it's just kind of you know, you're rallying the base,
(07:58):
you're rallying the Republics and the Democrats, and it's it's
kind of, you know what you expect. It's not usually
a lot of surprises, but this time it was very, very,
very different.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And only because again, folks, that one of the people
you're gonna hear us talk about it was a reporter
and he was at the RNC convention, and I asked
you what about yours, Because every convention I find to
be released, they're just they're planned down to the letter,
the just the pageantry and to see kind of democracy
(08:31):
or our system on display like that, But you agree
with it not It's just it's an event. It's a
big party, and I've always enjoyed going to the convention
on both sides. I'm very curious and i want everybody
to hear from the guy we're going to talk to
about what it was like when Trump walked in that room.
That's that's a moment like we have never ever seen before,
(08:52):
and I'm wondering if he thought it was different as well.
So folks, with that again, we want you to hear.
We are coming to you now from it from Rome
in particular today. But we have three people we want
to talk to. One is Nico Mitchell.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
He was the bystander who this was his first political rally,
by the way, that he had ever attended, and so
you know, he had no point of reference and didn't
really even know what to expect. So we're going to
hear how he handled witnessing, what he saw, and what
he's feeling like now. And we're also going to talk
to Robert Truman, you mentioned he is a political reporter,
a national correspondent for News Nation. And then finally one
(09:26):
of my actually a former colleague of mine, Mike Kera.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
So folks, take a listen now to our conversation with Nico, Mike,
and Robert, three people who had front row seats to
some of the most historical political drama this country has
ever seen. And we do have Nico Mitchell here with
(09:52):
us now, who was at that rally. Nico, I know
we're several days removed from that rally where Trump was shot.
You talked about how the next day you were still
shaken by it. Now a few days removed, when I
know you had to be thinking about all the what ifs.
If what if I would have been here, I had
have sat there, what if? Just first of all, can
(10:13):
you tell me how are you after experiencing such a
traumatic event.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
I'm doing well.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
I'm in good spirits.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
I would say, it's just a lot to process after
what happened that day and after that rally. In fact,
I hate to say this, but I went to Pittsburgh,
PA for dinner and I was assaulted by two men
after that rally. So this is a very volatile situation
(10:43):
that day. For me, I was just shaken by what
happened to Donald Trump. Seeing that and witnessing that in
real time is something that you can't forget. It's in
history now and having that happen to me as well,
it was surely a big day for me too.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Wow, Nikola, are you okay? Like I feel free to
share whatever happened? And it was obviously I'm hoping it
was unrelated. Can you just give us a sense of
what happened?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Well?
Speaker 5 (11:12):
I went to a restaurant where I had a group
of people who were agitated at the fact that I
had a Trump had on and realiation. I will tell
you I did say the words make America great again.
And that's when all broke loose. It wasn't even the
group that I was engaging with that assaulted me. It
(11:32):
was the kitchen workers at the restaurant. So this is
a big thing. I have to call the police department
back tomorrow to see how I'm able to proceed forward.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
I was expecting one thing, and we were talking here
right before we came on about which direction things are
going to go, Like we're opening this, people will calm down.
We all come together. And you're telling me you left
a rally where a presidential candidate was shot and you
were assaulted because of your support for that candidate. Do
I have that right?
Speaker 5 (12:04):
Yes, that's correct, and I don't care where you fall
in politics. We need to show love first in the
society because everything is too volatile. We've gotten to the
point where hatred is spewing out of people's spirits. They're
calling for the death of Trump, They're calling for the
death of whoever it may be. We need to step
(12:26):
back and show humanity again. Where is the humane being
inside of each other? We have to be able to
show that first, so that way we're able to unite again.
Because after all, if we're talking about these issues, we
can come into agreement with a lot. But what happens
is media and other factors fall into play where there's
(12:50):
there's divisional you know, all this division and this hatred
being spewed. So we just need to come together. So
I really can say about it, it's just it's just
sad right now, Are.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
O Nica That that is absolutely heartbreaking? TJ just mentioned.
I was actually like positive Polly, hopeful that this would
be a wake up call to the vitriol, to the
just the mean spiritedness of people. We can disagree, we
can prefer each other's candidates, but it doesn't mean it
has to resort to the extremes. Can you give me
(13:24):
a sense of what what happened in the in the
assault afterwards? Did was it throwing punches? Was it? Give
me a sense of just what that attack was like?
Speaker 5 (13:36):
It was it was me and a woman. I was
verbal to her, she was verbal to me, so it
was a verbal argument, and then it escalated to two
men going outside waiting for me. I had no idea
that they had weapons on them, so that was something
that was a big deal to me. At that point,
I wanted the police to be called, and the restaurant
(13:58):
decided for two men who were kitchen workers to come out.
They both grabbed me. They slammed me on the table,
and then they took me outside and then they rammed
me into the pavement. And I still have wounds on
my hands, i have bruising on my body, bruising up
on my upper arms, and I'm going to go to
(14:18):
the doctor's office very soon so I can have all
of that it documented.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Because this is a big deal a big deal. Why
did you and we were talking to you went from
New York to the rally in Pennsylvania where Trump was shot.
But why did you want to make a six plus out?
Why was it important to you to make that six
plus hour journey to be at that round?
Speaker 5 (14:43):
To be quite honest with you, I'm a Christian first,
and I believe in Jesus. I believe in God, and
I had this conviction that came over me to support him.
I know he's a very volad old candidate. He's someone
who was there he talked about positively and negatively, but
(15:04):
I felt the need to in this election cycle that
we're living in a point of history that is unprecedented.
We've never seen politics the way it is today. So
that was my own personal conviction to go out there.
But I've been to a Trump rally before, but I
was there for journalistic reasons. So I've covered a Trump rally.
(15:27):
I've covered Bernie Sanders rally, so it's not just a
right wing thing. I've also covered the Democrat side. So
I just felt the need in this election cycle to
do it, and I went out there in support and
low and behold, I'm witnessing history unfold right before my
very eyes. I'll tell you I was scared at that
(15:49):
moment when Trump dropped down where the podium was, I
thought he was dead in that moment. And the other
concern that I had was we've had so many actives
shits that happened in the United States. There was a
possibility that the active shooter could have turned around and
started opening fire on the crowd.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Yeah, oh, I mean, I can't even did you know
immediately that it was gun fire? I know a lot
of folks said they thought it was fireworks and it
was chaotic, and it's just not something you're expecting to
hear or see. How quickly did you know this is scary,
this is bad? And then how did you react?
Speaker 5 (16:23):
A lot of people online because when I posted that
video initially said to themselves or why didn't he run?
Or why didn't he do this or that? When you
are in a literal situation such as that, you don't
know how your body is going to respond, and you're
not expecting it, like you were saying. So when I
was just standing there, initially I thought it was fireworks.
(16:47):
I was confused at that point because I saw a
build a wing of smoke, and then there was a
water hose on the other side that burst it open
and water is spewing everywhere. So I'm saying to myself,
what is going on? Until I saw Trump drop down,
and I said to myself, I'm witnessing the death of
(17:09):
Trump right before my eyes. But thank God that the
Secret Service rushed over to shield him and he.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Was able to get back up.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
And my heart goes out to the victim who was
tragically taken in this situation.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Nigo, can you help me with the emotions that you
must have gone through. I can't imagine how many and
maybe a thirty second period for hearing the snap snap,
steps and steps now where that's confusion. Maybe initially you
see him go down, that's absolute terror and fear that
President Trump has just been shot and killed. Then you
have to think, wow, is somebody still shooting in the crowd?
Speaker 6 (17:46):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Should I take off running? Can you take me through?
I guess there were several steps and emotions that had
to have you going all over the place. So can
you take me through how those emotions were coming.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
They weren't from excitement from being at the rally, to
confusion to dreadful fear, and the only thing that you're
able to do is duck down and pray, because if
you've ever been to a concert or any large venue
for that matter, you're unable to go anywhere. The only
thing that you're able to do is is sit there
and hope for the best, because if you try running anywhere,
(18:23):
the crowd is blocking you. So I said to myself,
Dear Lord, I'm praying that I'm able to get out
of this situation alive. I've seen the situations that have
happened in the United States before, such as Las Vegas
where those four people were taken just doing casual things
as any other American would do. So these situations are
(18:48):
heart wrenching. And I've been in a situation before where
I was at a mall, I was entering the all
people started rushing outwards past me in the alarms going off,
and that was an active shooting situation before that was
in North Carolina. So but to be there and to
(19:08):
hear the shots ring out, it's it was certainly something
to remember.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
WOWK, that's just it's it's gutting to have experienced that.
And what was it like once they got the Secret
Service members got Trump off as they were taking off
the stage. I know he was yelling fight, fight, fight.
Can you give us a sense of what that was
like being in the crowd knowing what you've just seen,
but not having had time to process it, Like, what
(19:35):
did everyone do as he was being ushered off? And
after he left, the.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
People were very supportive.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
Uh, it was almost it was a rally cry for
being able to fight the good fight. Still, there's a
lot that has happened to this man and he continues
on with his political motivation to become the president once again.
So his supporter are there for him. I see that,
I feel that, and I've never been always a supporter
(20:08):
of his, but I definitely can see it through the crowd,
and it surely is something that if you're there, it
does feel I will say, it does feel like family
being there. People are very nice, they're cordial. So it
was a rally cry. And now, from my understanding with Trump,
(20:28):
he actually has a hole in his ear because he
still has the patch over him and he's still going
through everything. Now he's in Milwaukee doing the convention, so
this is this is a pivotal moment for him, and
praying for his safety.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Going forward as well.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Nikot, I don't know if you can if you had
gotten past all the fear and confusion enough to then
take in the emotion of the crowd. But that moment
when you all saw him get up, you saw him
put his fists in the air, you heard heard him screaming.
Describe then, I guess what came out of the crowd,
the emotion of that moment, which will go down in history.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
It went from dreadful fear because the people who were
around me were screaming in horror, and they were laying
low because they weren't sure what was going to happen next. Initially,
when I went down to the ground with my camera,
the lady next to me was saying, baby, get down,
(21:31):
get down, get down, And I heard the screams from
others in the crowd. When Trumpet arose from back of
the podium, it was a momentous feeling. It almost felt
like there was a victory in the air. It was
a feeling that a moment in history would only be
(21:51):
able to describe as if you were witnessing another pivotal
point that happened along the ways back then and maybe
even nineteen twenties nineteen forties World War Two. So this
was a very, very visceral feeling. I felt as though joy,
happiness came over the crowd in that moment and they
(22:12):
were ready to fight onwards. So there was not even
a question of how are we able to move forward?
But we're going to move forward regardless.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
Niko, are you concerned about what the next few weeks
and months are going to be like leading up to
the actual presidential election in November? Where are your emotions
about what you're expecting or anticipating.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
To be quite honest, I am concerned about his safety.
I'm not sure how all of this is going to
play out. We are very volatile in the United States
of America today. It's a very scary feeling, and I'm
praying for everyone's safety. I don't care if you are
a Republican, Democrat, independent. I'm registered as an independent myself,
(23:00):
and I just want people to be safe. I want
people to be able to show love once again. I
want people to have civil discussion once again. If you
even try to have a debate anymore, it's not even
a debate, it's a shouting match, and you're not even
trying to find common ground. It's now just demonizing each other.
(23:21):
So I just want people to be able to come
together at some point. But I see in the coming
weeks more volatile situations arising, unfortunately, just because of the
state of the world today.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Will you still wear your Maga hat out after what happened?
Speaker 5 (23:41):
I thought about this critically. Probably I'm going to say yes,
because I'm gonna be honest with you after what I
saw with Donald Trump and then the assault that happened
to me, I felt a connection in that moment where
what happened, and so we both shed blood that day,
(24:05):
and I said to myself, I'm still going to support
this man, even in the face of adversity.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
But Nico, you can support them, support them. You got
to have family friends saying, dude, why is it worth it.
You can support them without the shirt, without them, without
talking to the woman in the restaurant, right, So you
got to have people that love you saying, come o,
dco just leave the red hat at the house for
the Knights.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
Well, I'll be honest with you. I did take it
off on occasion, and then when that happened, I did
take it off because I still have people who are
looking at me and that moment after that happened, I
said to myself, people are so volatile right now, especially
in the area that I was, I felt as though
(24:53):
I could be killed.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
And so.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
I do feel as though I have to still represent
him in some capacity. And the only reason why I
feel the need to even support him is because I
had a conviction that came spiritually from God to support
this man. And I know a lot of people will
question that as to why I would feel that way,
but I would just say, pray on it and and
(25:21):
if you have a connection to God, you know, just
do your due diligence with it.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Well, you make a good point to that. We we're
gonna leavi youa that. But you said, I know people
are going to question when I say I had a
spiritual connection. What if we just can all take a
chance and not question and just respect it whatever. You know,
an atheist out there, you still respect where you're coming from.
And that's just so key. I think we don't.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
We don't. We don't get people enough credit or at
least in a grace for that song.
Speaker 5 (25:50):
I've had people told me that I had some type
of mental illness because I'm supporting Trump. I've had people
tell me that on my platforms, and I said to myself,
this is not good. If you support Biden, I love
you and I respect you. I've had people that I've
walked up to and asked do you support him? And
they would tell me no, or I'm indifferent, or I'm
(26:11):
supporting Biden, and I would say, I love you regardless.
God bless you, and if you need anything, I'm still
here for you.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
We hope there are more people like you, Nico in
the world, and we're just glad you're safe and thank
you so much for sharing your story, and we hope
you get checked out and get a good bill of
health from the doctor. But we wish you well in
making sure that you can find some peace and yes,
spread that love. Thank you so much for being with us, Nico.
Speaker 5 (26:39):
Thank you, Amy and TJ. I appreciate being on here,
and God bless both of you and Jesus name.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Thank you so much. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
And joining us now is Robert Sherman. Robert is a
national correspondent for News Nation and also he was at
the rally at the time of the attempted assassination and
(27:06):
he's now currently at the Republican National Convention. So, Robert,
you have had a front row seat to all of
the major events over the last few days, and so
thank you for being with us and joining us. You
are not just a political reporter, you're also a conflict reporter.
So gunfire is not an unusual sound for you. You
(27:26):
have been around it and in it for your career.
So take us back to that rally and what your
immediate reaction was to what was happening.
Speaker 6 (27:37):
Yeah, I mean, what I would just say is is
that we've covered so many of the former president's rallies
over the years, and this one was really no different.
The same kind of people who were dancing, singing, having
a good time, massive security presence with the Secret Service,
and so the idea of some kind of an attack
being carried out one of these events, I mean, we've
(27:57):
been to so many any of these that, but it's
never something that would ever cross your mind as being
within the realm of possibility. But then you see the
pandemonium breaking out and you see all the concern and
it was amazing. I mean, just in a couple of minutes,
just about everybody in Butler, Pennsylvania knew what had happened
(28:19):
as law enforcement tried to regather control of the situation,
and then segueing here into the RNC, what I would
say is is that very rarely is there much mystery
when it comes into one of these events. We typically
know how a political convention is going to go. But
there's so much anticipation heading into Monday night with the
(28:42):
first public appearance of the former president since this assassination attempt,
as well as the mystery about who is vice presidential
pick would be. And it has just been a very
surreal forty eight seventy two hours from Saturday until this point.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Have you gotten a sense that there's an increased a
little I won't say security, but what about just fear
among the people who are attending the convention? And quite frankly, Robert,
what about you. We've been around a lot of politicians
and conventions and whatnot over the years. The security makes
you feel safe, and it also makes you feel uncomfortable
(29:18):
sometimes like wow, all the securities needed. But you tell me, man,
how does is there an increased sense of fear there?
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Would you say?
Speaker 6 (29:26):
I wouldn't necessarily say so, but there are a couple
of distinctions be made from before the event and now
that we're in the event, there are were concerns about
security from some people here because I wouldn't really know
what the security situation was like. But when you walk
around downtown Milwaukee right now, it is impossible to not
run into a massive law enforcement presence. It's very difficult
(29:47):
to get down get around the heart of the city,
not just by driving but by walking as well. They
are entire blocks that are corded off. And so when
you see that security presence massively, whether it is stay troopers,
local police, or the massive security presence just in general
from the Secret Service that you see about. I mean
that is what people have talked to us, that they
(30:09):
wanted to see that show of force more or less,
and I would say that is a thing that has
put most people at ease here. But of course, going
back to Saturdays, is that there's always been the understanding that,
you know, any kind of a security breach at a
Trump that just seemed impossible up until this point. So
(30:31):
people have been on guard, I would say, you know,
from a healthy, cautious standpoint, but people have felt pretty
good here from those who we've talked to. But it
was on the mind coming in before seeing this whole
security presence up close.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
But Robert, was it on your mind from a personal standpoint? Again,
she just said, your guy that's been around and been
all over the world in conflict. But for you, and
I don't want to say you change anything, but is
it on your mind in any different way?
Speaker 6 (30:57):
You know, It's just it just opens the door of
possible abilities, right because I mean, once you, you know, have
the bubble popped the first time, when it comes to
your own sense of security, then you know, you start
to ask the question about you know, well, if if
you know this wasn't as secure as we all thought
it was, you know what else is truly secure? So
I'm it something that was on our mind. But I
(31:18):
mean not an overwhelming fear, I would say, just something
to be on guard about. There have been demonstrations that
have been taking place here in Milwaukee, but those have
remained pretty tame up until this point. So it's it's
it's not something that has you know, definitely commanded your mind,
but it's something that is always playing in the back
(31:38):
of your skull a little bit, especially after what happened Saturday.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
Yeah, I can only imagine and obviously, Robert. You know,
we've been on the ground and we've covered a lot
of really scary, violent, awful events around the world, and
yet I've never been somewhere where an active shooting is
taking place as a human, not even as a reporter.
I mean, did you were you in reporter mindset or
(32:03):
when you heard those gunshots and you saw the president
go down? Did the human sidekick in I'm just curious
what that must have been like for you, even as
a seasoned journalist, as a human being.
Speaker 6 (32:17):
It's just, you know, hearing all of this, it was
just a shock to so many people here. We actually
had to pull back just a little bit from the
event due to connectivity issues. But then, I mean, you
hear the gunshots and you you know, hear the pandemonium
that is breaking out. I mean, it's just shock.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
You know.
Speaker 6 (32:38):
I don't know how else to describe it as is
that you you know, we're all looking at each other.
It's like that there's no way that that's what it
could have been, right, I mean, we must have misheard something.
When you talk to people on the ground, everybody describes
it the same way, probably the way that you've heard
people describe similar situations in your reporting careers, everyone says, well,
it sounds like fireworks. You would just never think that
(33:00):
that's what it was, that it was actually gunshots or
anything like that. But then, I mean, you see people
running around, you see people concerned. You just don't know
what to think of that situation. It was just something
that was so out of sight, out of mind up
until that moment.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Were you and again, given your experience and reporting, and
everybody say it sounds like firecrackers? Did you right? Your training,
your experience might tell you I'm hearing gunfire, but also
your experience in politics, like, no, there's no way there's gunfire.
There's no way anybody shooting. Did you know immediately when
you heard it that is gunfire?
Speaker 3 (33:39):
No?
Speaker 6 (33:40):
No, I definitely did not. I mean, especially someone coming
from Israel, you know where you hear rockets exploding overhead
on a rather consistent basis.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
It was not.
Speaker 6 (33:52):
It was not something that that's what that I thought
it was.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Well, Robert, thank you so much for sharing your story
with us and come to us from Milwaukee. There on
the floor of the Republican National Convention. And speaking of Milwaukee,
we have Mike Thecara joining us from another location in Milwaukee.
But yeah, Mike, we go way back. Nice to see
you and hear from you. We were MSNBC colleagues back
(34:18):
in the.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Day, that's right.
Speaker 7 (34:20):
And I think you were on Weekend today for a
time and I was filing for them as well.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
So yeah, indeed we have a.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Lot of history, and I can't to hear about your
perspective with all that's happened. You've had a very busy
last few days. Tell us what those have been like,
where you are right now and what you've been dealing
with professionally.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Well professionally right.
Speaker 7 (34:40):
So, I'm the Washington Bureau chief and as such I
sort of organized the coverage for News Nation.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
We've got a great.
Speaker 7 (34:48):
Spot right on the floor our studios, right on the
floor of the convention, where we're anchoring a lot of
our special programming. You know, it's an amazing you know,
it's eighty five million dollars. It has to put this
thing on. And another former colleague of ours, Amy Philology,
is the person producing and organizing and setting up all
the camera angles and everything else, and he gave us
(35:10):
a little backstage tour of that, which was really fascinating.
Of everything in the convention, but for me personally, it's
mostly about management. I'm still on the air a lot.
Yesterday I was on the air a lot from the
floor where Robert was today reporting on the surprise pick
of Jade Vance. I guess it wasn't much a surprised,
but it was really amazing how that secret was kept
up until the very last moment, and the former president
(35:32):
himself was able to announce it and surprise everybody because
as far as I know, it had not been reported
up until he posted on his truth social page.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
So you know, it's crazy, it's hectic.
Speaker 7 (35:43):
There are thousands of reporters here, there are more delegates,
there are more party officials. It's a big party. They
have events every day. You know, there's a certain giddiness
among the people on the foreign and the Republican Party.
I would say that's not unusual for conventions, but it
seems be really sort of turbo charged this year for Republicans.
(36:03):
So it is a convention atmosphere and everything that goes
with it, and now we have some added drama of course,
as we saw on the floor last night. So you know,
as a professional journalist, these things are sort of the
Super Bowl leading up to the election, and certainly the
production and organizing our Super Bowl level. And it's a
(36:25):
privilege to be here to cover history. It's all I'll
say I can say about that.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
How long have you been covering politics? Just give our
listeners some perspective of who we got here? How long
you been government politics? Wow?
Speaker 3 (36:36):
This is like my favorite subject me. I started in
nineteen ninety.
Speaker 7 (36:43):
I actually started with NHK, which is sort of the
BBC of Japan, a large Japanese broadcaster in Washington, at
Washington Bureau at n HK, because I had been goofing
around teaching, doing the English teacher thing after college in Japan.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
So what is that thirty four years?
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Thirty four years? How many conventions do you do? You
have account how many conventions you've done?
Speaker 3 (37:03):
I don't, you know. I should sit down and think
about that a lot.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
It's been a bunch.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Six, you know, and on and on.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
It's been a bunch. So I asked that for this reason,
h we've covered conventions as well. And it doesn't matter
about your political leanings, it doesn't matter. You're there to
do a job. But there is just something cool about
a convention, right it's just the pump and circumstances and
the pageantry and the planning. It's just wonderful and the energy,
and everybody's excited about their candidate. But this is what
I why I want to ask Mike, what did that
(37:35):
feel like? What is the energy like? After that shooting
that we saw in Pennsylvania. Now he comes back to
even a greater heroes welcome that you can imagine. I'm
trying to get some perspective, because these things are great, wonderful,
energetic events. But how did that feel different when he
walked in?
Speaker 7 (37:55):
Well, first of all, you know, as journalists, and I
know you guys know this, you have to a certain detachment.
You can't get swept in it, up in it. You know,
you're not there as a participant. You're there as an
objective observer. And I still believe that's the best way
to go about being a journalist, especially in politics, although
others seem to disagree. These days, I would say that
(38:17):
the events of the last forty eight to seventy two
hours in Butler, Pennsylvania have not only you know, there's
a lot of talk of anger and tension, particularly towards
the media. Let's face it and some of the things
that we've heard of the course last several days. But
I think there's a conscious effort on the part of
from the Candida on.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Down to de emphasize.
Speaker 7 (38:36):
They're trying to accentuate the positive eliminate the negative, like
the old song goes. I do think that what has
happened and the way the President has reacted initially after
that horrifying sort you know, it's a day of infamy
really no matter where you stand.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
I believe there is a feeling among a lot of
the folks that are.
Speaker 7 (38:57):
There, whether they be members of Congress that I've talked to,
or it gets or just conversations in the hall that
President Trump has a you know, is pretty much the
odds on favor. And I don't want to say people
are taking it for granted that he's going to be
vaulted back into the White House, which after all, is
the intention of these what are essentially television show productions
every night for four nights.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
And so there's a like I said, there's usually a giddiness.
Speaker 7 (39:22):
People in funny clothes, and there's plenty of cowboy hats
and people in costumes and cheering and laughter bordering on
goofiness really, but now there is that extra element that's
sort of jet fuel that has infused a lot of
the folks here. I think who, Yes, like the rest
of us, were shocked at what happened and the images
(39:42):
that we saw from Saturday night. But I feel as though,
you know, the way the President reacted, speaking for the
delegates and the people that I've talked to, the way
the President reacted, you know, further lionizes him in their
mind and sort of inspires them. So there's that extra
element that on the floor of the convention, that extra
element of enthusiasm.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
I think, Yeah, we've been we've been watching what we
can from from Italy, but it hasn't been a lot.
We've were seeing Trump walk into the convention hall to
Lee Greenwoods, God Bless the USA, and just mis his
bandage on his ear. Can you just give us a
sense of.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
The tone and.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
The mood of the convention hall given what happened in
Pennsylvania and what you're expecting from the President when he
gives that speech at the end of the week.
Speaker 7 (40:35):
Well, you know, the President himself has said in an interview,
I think it was on the airplane actually with the
Washington Examiner did two interviews the New York Post and
the Washington Examiner, obviously two media outlets associated with the
conservative side of things.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
He said he was going to retool it, make it
about unity, you.
Speaker 7 (40:54):
Know, coming together, because I think there's a sense that
probably just fiab way, that people are sick of it.
You know, people are sick of divisions, people are sick
of polarization, and the fact that Donald Trump narrowly escaped
with his life sort of resets things in a way.
At least that's the feeling that you get talking to
(41:17):
folks in terms of their messaging strategy and the way
they feel as though with their finger on the pulse
of their constituencies that they wanted the direction they want
to go in. Look, the convention is not going to
be one or lost by how the people in that
hall are going to be voting. I think we all
know that the convention is going to be one or
lost by people in the suburbs of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh
(41:38):
and Detroit and here in Milwaukee, which is of course
one reason why this is.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Being staged in Milwaukee.
Speaker 7 (41:45):
And so a message of unity is probably something that's
going to appeal to them more as opposed to some
of the more personal attacks and you know, the schoolyard
taunts that are sort of the trademark or President Trump. Now,
whether he can suppress his natural inclination to do those things,
(42:05):
which you know has worked for him in the past
is another question, and that's something we're going to have
to wait and see.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Mike, do you all have you all made any adjustments
in your coverage, how you cover politics, or even in
your security as a news organization. Have you all had
to make any adjustments based on where we are now
at the events in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 7 (42:32):
Well, not really, And mind you, we're not even seventy
two hours away from that hard as it is to believe,
because so much has happened in between, and so you know,
whether there will be adjustments later down the road, I
don't know. I mean a large part I think. I
don't think it's a secret to anybody that the press
has come under heavier criticism. And yes, at Trump rallies,
(42:54):
the presidents frequently pointed to the riser who are chronicling
the people, and that riser a chronicling what he's saying
and doing and being critical. That's another trademarket is He's
done that since the twenty sixteen campaign as well, and
there's been increasing amounts of vitriol and hatred pointed towards
the press. And I think you actually saw an example
(43:15):
of that of all times, right after the shooting, where
people were turning in the crowd were turning as the
President was being whisked off the stage as he's pumping
his fist. Who were giving them press riser the platform
where the cameras and the reporters are set up towards
the back of the event giving us the finger. I
wasn't there, Robert was there, and so that's sort of
(43:36):
been building over time. January sixth, there was a lot
of anger directed towards the press. You know, they kept
there's an area of cameras outside the Capitol we call
the swamp just at the bottom of the Sense steps,
and you know, folks came along and cut the cables
and the wires and fiber lines that enable us to
get on the air.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
So that's something that's been building.
Speaker 7 (43:57):
I don't think about it too much, perhaps out of
self preservation, so I don't go crazy, but we do
take you know, I want to get into the security
steps that we take. But you know, we do take
steps to ensure the security of our reporters when they
go out into the field to it whether it's a
protest or anything else. You know, you guys know, part
(44:17):
of what we do is to run towards danger. I mean,
we're not heroes, but we're there. And some of us
believe this. It's journalism is altruism for cynics. I'm a cynic,
but I get to feel good about what I'm doing.
And if I can chronicle history and if I can
be an eyewitness to historic events, then I'm going to
go try to do my best to do that.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
I mean within limits.
Speaker 7 (44:36):
I don't want to die, but these those are you know,
that's part of the ethos of what we do.
Speaker 4 (44:41):
Yeah, I'm curious, Mike. You know, we we've been talking
a little bit about this in the podcast because the
hope would be that things got to this point where yes,
a presidential candidate, a former president was shot at and
came within rable millimeters of dying. How is that going
(45:04):
to change? Is it going to change or change how
we treat each other, how candidates treat each other. Do
you think this has any impact on the mud slinging
and what we've seen from Trump himself, but from both
sides of the aisle, in terms of how they talk
about each other, how they treat each other, what they
(45:26):
say about each other. Do you think this is going
to change anything?
Speaker 3 (45:29):
You know, it's a great question. I don't know, and
I think everybody wants to know that.
Speaker 7 (45:32):
And I think that anybody whos been around politics for
as long as we have is skeptical. Frankly, and in
these initial days and hours after the attack, the assassination
attempt that nearly killed Donald Trump, I think a lot
of people are hoping that that's the case. And certainly,
as we were talking about earlier, the rhetoric is being
(45:53):
recalibrated and retooled. I mean, we saw President Biden in
the Oval Office calling for I don't know if you
use the word civility, but calling for civility and a
toning down of the rhetoric. We're seeing Republicans at the
convention here in Milwaukee making a conscious effort to tone
that down. You know, I covered the House of Representatives
(46:14):
for eleven years every day, and I guess I was
a little bit naive when I showed up because I
was under the impression that things were not quite as
partisan as they are. But you know, after a while,
you realize it's not necessarily unique in American history, and
the system is designed with such genius that it's intended
to channel all of human nature's tendencies to join a
(46:38):
group and fight it out right your shirt, skins, red, blue.
Speaker 3 (46:41):
Whatever the case may be.
Speaker 7 (46:44):
But it's sort of, as we said, sort of entering
another level of scariness over the course of the last
few days, culminating what we saw Saturday. So is what
the images, the shocking images and the sort of disquiet
that everybody's experienced, some of us anyway over after seeing
what happened Saturday, will let last. I guess a lot
(47:07):
of people are hoping, so I would admit that I'm
kind of hoping so, but I don't know, I'm a
little skeptical myself.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
After eleven years in the house for every tent.
Speaker 8 (47:16):
Yeah, Oh, they very honest, spoken from someone who has
been there in the swamp and all around.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
So we really appreciate your perspective as somebody who has
been immersed in politics and covering politics for as long
as you have. We just really appreciate your perspective and
stay safe, Mike. And it was so great to see
you again, to hear from you again, and we wish
you all the best and just want to thank you
for being on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
Okay, you guys, keep living the La dolce vita.
Speaker 4 (47:50):
Okay, all right, thank you everybody for listening, and you
know where to find us on Instagram, Amy and TJ
Podcast and you're gonna hear another final podcast from us
from Italy and then we'll be back home stateside. So
thanks for listening and we'll see you soon
Hey, the folks.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
In this episode, Robot and I continue our travels in Italy,
but we take a break from hanging out with Italians
because we wanted to talk to three Americans, but not
just any three Americans.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Three in particular. Two of them were there at that
Trump rally where he was shot, and the other was
at the R and C convention on night one for
a hell of a moment when Trump walked in and
with that, Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ.
Coming to you today from Rome, and it is weird.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Rose.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
We've been here for a while now, it's gonna be
a week and a half here pretty soon, and we
have taken a break to do some work. But it's
not a complaint that we took a break, and we
shouldn't be celebrated for doing so. We actually wanted to
be more engaged. What's going on at home?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Yeah, I think we talked about it in the last podcast.
As journalist, you know when major events happen and you're
not home or you're going to wherever the event took place.
And so now to be in this situation, yes we're
on vacation, but we still very much want to be
a part of what's happening back home, what's happening politically,
what's happening to so many Americans. This is something the
(01:16):
attempted assassination of President Trump or former President Trump has
affected everybody in some way, and so we wanted to
hear from the people who were there when it happened
and who are following where the politics are taking us
from that moment on.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
You know, I we've all had this moment, no matter
who you are, We've all called back home to fail. Right.
You move away from home and something happened. They tell
you your aunt's an hospital, well, your grandfather's sick or
something going on, and you call, you talk to your
mom and dad, and they always tell you the same thing.
You know, it's no reason to early come home. There's
nothing you can do right now, but you always feel
(01:50):
that pool and want to be back home. It's an
odd comparison, but that's what it feels like being here
in Italy when so much is happening back home.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Right, and so much of it is going to affect
all of our lives, and it's you know, I'm curious,
as I think a lot of people are, as to
whether or not this tragic event. I mean, a man
lost his life, the shooter, his family is dealing with
the aftermath of that, and then of course you've got
two people critically injured. Still, so you know, this is
a serious like and an almost an unprecedented Ronald Reagan
(02:21):
back in nineteen eighty one. And so the truth of
the matter is we have been so politically divided as
a nation and it's just gotten worse and worse and worse.
And so the question is, with what happened at that
political rally in Pennsylvania, does it make the things get
even worse? Do people start pointing fingers even more? Do
we blame one another for this young man's decision? Or
(02:42):
is this a moment of being actually able to put
some of the mud slinging away, to find some sort
of unity or at least having a more civil conversation
about what each presidential candidate could bring to this country
instead of showing each other you know how horrible the
other is.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I mean, I'm just let's go which way is it
going to go?
Speaker 4 (03:03):
I think initially people will fill that sense of you know,
we are on America. Let's let's tone down the rhetoric.
Let's let's change how we're talking about one another, how
we're describing political parties us versus them. But then eventually
I fear that it will turn and it might even
get out later.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
See, I can't, can't. I'm not gonna be able to
remember the journalist's name. It wasn't an on air of
someone who was prominent, but I believe was just fired
or at least suspended reprimanded for a social media post
in which I guess they thought they were being funny,
but was almost complaining that the guy was a bad shot.
Oh my god, that kind of stuff. That's awful, that
(03:40):
kind of stuff. And again, this is only the one
that I saw, but I bet there's a lot of
that kind of stuff out there. A lot is going
to weigh on what Trump does on at Thornz convention.
What is that speech going to sound like and look like?
But what do you compare? What was it? I remember
nine to eleven. There's something since nine eleven, but we
came together at nine eleven. Absolute like nobody's business as
(04:02):
a country didn't last that long. I remember the politicians
coming out on the steps of the Capitol and they
all I think they're saying that godless murders did something right,
and that was like, Wow, what unity did it in
the last three months?
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I didn't last very long at all. Yeah, at that point, wasn't.
President Bush had the highest OBAL rating out of any
recent president because of that sense of unity and that
we had to band together as a country. But this
is really disturbing on so many levels. Think about all
the school shootings that we've covered. You know, it was
again fingerpointing between you know, should ar fifteens be allowed
(04:36):
in just baldy u WALDI, I mean, my god.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Baby's kill and we still didn't necessarily come together as
a country to do anything about.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
No. I remember interviewing the mayor of Uvaldi and he
was blaming everything but the guns and got really upset
with me when I pushed back a little bit, and
it just it felt even more divisive. So sadly, a
lot of this violence that we've seen has not done that.
Maybe the in me is hopeful that maybe this time
it could be different, because this is such a serious.
(05:04):
We we're talking millimeters away. We can ending president former
President Trump's life. Klimeters.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
We can't be taking a shot, said no, leaders, we
just that just can't be done. And you said something,
I hadn't thought about that young man's family. Right, he's dead.
They've lost someone. That's tragic enough, but now all the
scrutiny and the I mean, when could those folks ever
get their lives back. I have no idea who these
people are, what they're about, where they're from, who how
(05:30):
good of folks they are. But I'm at this point
at least being as a human being and thinking about
that is a young man. I have no idea what's
going on his life, but his family now is dealing
with something I can't imagine. Maybe some people think that's
not what we should be talking about today, but I
think that's a part of all of our conversations, is
that we have got to consider everybody in it. And
(05:52):
don't get me wrong, he's not the forefront of people's
mind and sympathy. But at the same time, there are
just so many people impacted in such a significant way,
in a personal way, and I can't imagine what this
family is dealing with, his community, his high school, his friends.
Everybody is confused and hurt and saddened, and a lot
of people want to take a lot of anger out
on the people that were close to him, with him
(06:13):
and his family. So we'll see how that happens, which is.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
The exact opposite of what I think so many people
would hope could happen, where there's empathy, sympathy, and curiosity
in the sense of how we always have this conversation,
how could we have prevented it? Were there signs? All
of those things. Those are good conversations to have, But
it's still frustrating, nonetheless, and it's still a very frightening
time we're in right now from a political standpoint, which
(06:38):
affects every single person in this country. To think that
we have been prosecuting politicians and politicians family members and
now it's just elevated from the court system to now
gun vis it's just awful.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
But with that, and I know a lot of folks
listen to us, I've seen probably everybody listening to us
has seen more bridge then we have because we are
here it is where we haven't been able to get
American television for the most part, and just was able
to watch a little bit on that the morning after.
But there are I know a lot of folks that
(07:12):
heard reports and eyewitness accounts and so we're going to
let you hear from We're going to let you hear conversations.
We had with two folks who were at the rally.
One of them, I believe you said, he was only
eight or ten rows back, so he just fairly folks.
But the other is a political report, a long time
political reporter, who was at the R and C convention. Now,
how many do you even know how many conventions?
Speaker 4 (07:35):
You No, there have been several, and they're all usually,
you know, they're filled with pomp and circumstance. They have
the four day rundown, you have obviously we hear who
the vice presidential nominee or the candidate is going to
be on the non incumbent side, So there's just protocol,
and it's just kind of you know, you're rallying the base,
(07:58):
you're rallying the Republics and the Democrats, and it's it's
kind of, you know what you expect. It's not usually
a lot of surprises, but this time it was very, very,
very different.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And only because again, folks, that one of the people
you're gonna hear us talk about it was a reporter
and he was at the RNC convention, and I asked
you what about yours, Because every convention I find to
be released, they're just they're planned down to the letter,
the just the pageantry and to see kind of democracy
(08:31):
or our system on display like that, But you agree
with it not It's just it's an event. It's a
big party, and I've always enjoyed going to the convention
on both sides. I'm very curious and i want everybody
to hear from the guy we're going to talk to
about what it was like when Trump walked in that room.
That's that's a moment like we have never ever seen before,
(08:52):
and I'm wondering if he thought it was different as well.
So folks, with that again, we want you to hear.
We are coming to you now from it from Rome
in particular today. But we have three people we want
to talk to. One is Nico Mitchell.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
He was the bystander who this was his first political rally,
by the way, that he had ever attended, and so
you know, he had no point of reference and didn't
really even know what to expect. So we're going to
hear how he handled witnessing, what he saw, and what
he's feeling like now. And we're also going to talk
to Robert Truman, you mentioned he is a political reporter,
a national correspondent for News Nation. And then finally one
(09:26):
of my actually a former colleague of mine, Mike Kera.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
So folks, take a listen now to our conversation with Nico, Mike,
and Robert, three people who had front row seats to
some of the most historical political drama this country has
ever seen. And we do have Nico Mitchell here with
(09:52):
us now, who was at that rally. Nico, I know
we're several days removed from that rally where Trump was shot.
You talked about how the next day you were still
shaken by it. Now a few days removed, when I
know you had to be thinking about all the what ifs.
If what if I would have been here, I had
have sat there, what if? Just first of all, can
(10:13):
you tell me how are you after experiencing such a
traumatic event.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
I'm doing well.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
I'm in good spirits.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
I would say, it's just a lot to process after
what happened that day and after that rally. In fact,
I hate to say this, but I went to Pittsburgh,
PA for dinner and I was assaulted by two men
after that rally. So this is a very volatile situation
(10:43):
that day. For me, I was just shaken by what
happened to Donald Trump. Seeing that and witnessing that in
real time is something that you can't forget. It's in
history now and having that happen to me as well,
it was surely a big day for me too.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Wow, Nikola, are you okay? Like I feel free to
share whatever happened? And it was obviously I'm hoping it
was unrelated. Can you just give us a sense of
what happened?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Well?
Speaker 5 (11:12):
I went to a restaurant where I had a group
of people who were agitated at the fact that I
had a Trump had on and realiation. I will tell
you I did say the words make America great again.
And that's when all broke loose. It wasn't even the
group that I was engaging with that assaulted me. It
(11:32):
was the kitchen workers at the restaurant. So this is
a big thing. I have to call the police department
back tomorrow to see how I'm able to proceed forward.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
I was expecting one thing, and we were talking here
right before we came on about which direction things are
going to go, Like we're opening this, people will calm down.
We all come together. And you're telling me you left
a rally where a presidential candidate was shot and you
were assaulted because of your support for that candidate. Do
I have that right?
Speaker 5 (12:04):
Yes, that's correct, and I don't care where you fall
in politics. We need to show love first in the
society because everything is too volatile. We've gotten to the
point where hatred is spewing out of people's spirits. They're
calling for the death of Trump, They're calling for the
death of whoever it may be. We need to step
(12:26):
back and show humanity again. Where is the humane being
inside of each other? We have to be able to
show that first, so that way we're able to unite again.
Because after all, if we're talking about these issues, we
can come into agreement with a lot. But what happens
is media and other factors fall into play where there's
(12:50):
there's divisional you know, all this division and this hatred
being spewed. So we just need to come together. So
I really can say about it, it's just it's just
sad right now, Are.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
O Nica That that is absolutely heartbreaking? TJ just mentioned.
I was actually like positive Polly, hopeful that this would
be a wake up call to the vitriol, to the
just the mean spiritedness of people. We can disagree, we
can prefer each other's candidates, but it doesn't mean it
has to resort to the extremes. Can you give me
(13:24):
a sense of what what happened in the in the
assault afterwards? Did was it throwing punches? Was it? Give
me a sense of just what that attack was like?
Speaker 5 (13:36):
It was it was me and a woman. I was
verbal to her, she was verbal to me, so it
was a verbal argument, and then it escalated to two
men going outside waiting for me. I had no idea
that they had weapons on them, so that was something
that was a big deal to me. At that point,
I wanted the police to be called, and the restaurant
(13:58):
decided for two men who were kitchen workers to come out.
They both grabbed me. They slammed me on the table,
and then they took me outside and then they rammed
me into the pavement. And I still have wounds on
my hands, i have bruising on my body, bruising up
on my upper arms, and I'm going to go to
(14:18):
the doctor's office very soon so I can have all
of that it documented.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Because this is a big deal a big deal. Why
did you and we were talking to you went from
New York to the rally in Pennsylvania where Trump was shot.
But why did you want to make a six plus out?
Why was it important to you to make that six
plus hour journey to be at that round?
Speaker 5 (14:43):
To be quite honest with you, I'm a Christian first,
and I believe in Jesus. I believe in God, and
I had this conviction that came over me to support him.
I know he's a very volad old candidate. He's someone
who was there he talked about positively and negatively, but
(15:04):
I felt the need to in this election cycle that
we're living in a point of history that is unprecedented.
We've never seen politics the way it is today. So
that was my own personal conviction to go out there.
But I've been to a Trump rally before, but I
was there for journalistic reasons. So I've covered a Trump rally.
(15:27):
I've covered Bernie Sanders rally, so it's not just a
right wing thing. I've also covered the Democrat side. So
I just felt the need in this election cycle to
do it, and I went out there in support and
low and behold, I'm witnessing history unfold right before my
very eyes. I'll tell you I was scared at that
(15:49):
moment when Trump dropped down where the podium was, I
thought he was dead in that moment. And the other
concern that I had was we've had so many actives
shits that happened in the United States. There was a
possibility that the active shooter could have turned around and
started opening fire on the crowd.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Yeah, oh, I mean, I can't even did you know
immediately that it was gun fire? I know a lot
of folks said they thought it was fireworks and it
was chaotic, and it's just not something you're expecting to
hear or see. How quickly did you know this is scary,
this is bad? And then how did you react?
Speaker 5 (16:23):
A lot of people online because when I posted that
video initially said to themselves or why didn't he run?
Or why didn't he do this or that? When you
are in a literal situation such as that, you don't
know how your body is going to respond, and you're
not expecting it, like you were saying. So when I
was just standing there, initially I thought it was fireworks.
(16:47):
I was confused at that point because I saw a
build a wing of smoke, and then there was a
water hose on the other side that burst it open
and water is spewing everywhere. So I'm saying to myself,
what is going on? Until I saw Trump drop down,
and I said to myself, I'm witnessing the death of
(17:09):
Trump right before my eyes. But thank God that the
Secret Service rushed over to shield him and he.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Was able to get back up.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
And my heart goes out to the victim who was
tragically taken in this situation.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Nigo, can you help me with the emotions that you
must have gone through. I can't imagine how many and
maybe a thirty second period for hearing the snap snap,
steps and steps now where that's confusion. Maybe initially you
see him go down, that's absolute terror and fear that
President Trump has just been shot and killed. Then you
have to think, wow, is somebody still shooting in the crowd?
Speaker 6 (17:46):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Should I take off running? Can you take me through?
I guess there were several steps and emotions that had
to have you going all over the place. So can
you take me through how those emotions were coming.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
They weren't from excitement from being at the rally, to
confusion to dreadful fear, and the only thing that you're
able to do is duck down and pray, because if
you've ever been to a concert or any large venue
for that matter, you're unable to go anywhere. The only
thing that you're able to do is is sit there
and hope for the best, because if you try running anywhere,
(18:23):
the crowd is blocking you. So I said to myself,
Dear Lord, I'm praying that I'm able to get out
of this situation alive. I've seen the situations that have
happened in the United States before, such as Las Vegas
where those four people were taken just doing casual things
as any other American would do. So these situations are
(18:48):
heart wrenching. And I've been in a situation before where
I was at a mall, I was entering the all
people started rushing outwards past me in the alarms going off,
and that was an active shooting situation before that was
in North Carolina. So but to be there and to
(19:08):
hear the shots ring out, it's it was certainly something
to remember.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
WOWK, that's just it's it's gutting to have experienced that.
And what was it like once they got the Secret
Service members got Trump off as they were taking off
the stage. I know he was yelling fight, fight, fight.
Can you give us a sense of what that was
like being in the crowd knowing what you've just seen,
but not having had time to process it, Like, what
(19:35):
did everyone do as he was being ushered off? And
after he left, the.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
People were very supportive.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
Uh, it was almost it was a rally cry for
being able to fight the good fight. Still, there's a
lot that has happened to this man and he continues
on with his political motivation to become the president once again.
So his supporter are there for him. I see that,
I feel that, and I've never been always a supporter
(20:08):
of his, but I definitely can see it through the crowd,
and it surely is something that if you're there, it
does feel I will say, it does feel like family
being there. People are very nice, they're cordial. So it
was a rally cry. And now, from my understanding with Trump,
(20:28):
he actually has a hole in his ear because he
still has the patch over him and he's still going
through everything. Now he's in Milwaukee doing the convention, so
this is this is a pivotal moment for him, and
praying for his safety.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Going forward as well.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Nikot, I don't know if you can if you had
gotten past all the fear and confusion enough to then
take in the emotion of the crowd. But that moment
when you all saw him get up, you saw him
put his fists in the air, you heard heard him screaming.
Describe then, I guess what came out of the crowd,
the emotion of that moment, which will go down in history.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
It went from dreadful fear because the people who were
around me were screaming in horror, and they were laying
low because they weren't sure what was going to happen next. Initially,
when I went down to the ground with my camera,
the lady next to me was saying, baby, get down,
(21:31):
get down, get down, And I heard the screams from
others in the crowd. When Trumpet arose from back of
the podium, it was a momentous feeling. It almost felt
like there was a victory in the air. It was
a feeling that a moment in history would only be
(21:51):
able to describe as if you were witnessing another pivotal
point that happened along the ways back then and maybe
even nineteen twenties nineteen forties World War Two. So this
was a very, very visceral feeling. I felt as though joy,
happiness came over the crowd in that moment and they
(22:12):
were ready to fight onwards. So there was not even
a question of how are we able to move forward?
But we're going to move forward regardless.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
Niko, are you concerned about what the next few weeks
and months are going to be like leading up to
the actual presidential election in November? Where are your emotions
about what you're expecting or anticipating.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
To be quite honest, I am concerned about his safety.
I'm not sure how all of this is going to
play out. We are very volatile in the United States
of America today. It's a very scary feeling, and I'm
praying for everyone's safety. I don't care if you are
a Republican, Democrat, independent. I'm registered as an independent myself,
(23:00):
and I just want people to be safe. I want
people to be able to show love once again. I
want people to have civil discussion once again. If you
even try to have a debate anymore, it's not even
a debate, it's a shouting match, and you're not even
trying to find common ground. It's now just demonizing each other.
(23:21):
So I just want people to be able to come
together at some point. But I see in the coming
weeks more volatile situations arising, unfortunately, just because of the
state of the world today.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Will you still wear your Maga hat out after what happened?
Speaker 5 (23:41):
I thought about this critically. Probably I'm going to say yes,
because I'm gonna be honest with you after what I
saw with Donald Trump and then the assault that happened
to me, I felt a connection in that moment where
what happened, and so we both shed blood that day,
(24:05):
and I said to myself, I'm still going to support
this man, even in the face of adversity.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
But Nico, you can support them, support them. You got
to have family friends saying, dude, why is it worth it.
You can support them without the shirt, without them, without
talking to the woman in the restaurant, right, So you
got to have people that love you saying, come o,
dco just leave the red hat at the house for
the Knights.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
Well, I'll be honest with you. I did take it
off on occasion, and then when that happened, I did
take it off because I still have people who are
looking at me and that moment after that happened, I
said to myself, people are so volatile right now, especially
in the area that I was, I felt as though
(24:53):
I could be killed.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
And so.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
I do feel as though I have to still represent
him in some capacity. And the only reason why I
feel the need to even support him is because I
had a conviction that came spiritually from God to support
this man. And I know a lot of people will
question that as to why I would feel that way,
but I would just say, pray on it and and
(25:21):
if you have a connection to God, you know, just
do your due diligence with it.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Well, you make a good point to that. We we're
gonna leavi youa that. But you said, I know people
are going to question when I say I had a
spiritual connection. What if we just can all take a
chance and not question and just respect it whatever. You know,
an atheist out there, you still respect where you're coming from.
And that's just so key. I think we don't.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
We don't. We don't get people enough credit or at
least in a grace for that song.
Speaker 5 (25:50):
I've had people told me that I had some type
of mental illness because I'm supporting Trump. I've had people
tell me that on my platforms, and I said to myself,
this is not good. If you support Biden, I love
you and I respect you. I've had people that I've
walked up to and asked do you support him? And
they would tell me no, or I'm indifferent, or I'm
(26:11):
supporting Biden, and I would say, I love you regardless.
God bless you, and if you need anything, I'm still
here for you.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
We hope there are more people like you, Nico in
the world, and we're just glad you're safe and thank
you so much for sharing your story, and we hope
you get checked out and get a good bill of
health from the doctor. But we wish you well in
making sure that you can find some peace and yes,
spread that love. Thank you so much for being with us, Nico.
Speaker 5 (26:39):
Thank you, Amy and TJ. I appreciate being on here,
and God bless both of you and Jesus name.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Thank you so much. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
And joining us now is Robert Sherman. Robert is a
national correspondent for News Nation and also he was at
the rally at the time of the attempted assassination and
(27:06):
he's now currently at the Republican National Convention. So, Robert,
you have had a front row seat to all of
the major events over the last few days, and so
thank you for being with us and joining us. You
are not just a political reporter, you're also a conflict reporter.
So gunfire is not an unusual sound for you. You
(27:26):
have been around it and in it for your career.
So take us back to that rally and what your
immediate reaction was to what was happening.
Speaker 6 (27:37):
Yeah, I mean, what I would just say is is
that we've covered so many of the former president's rallies
over the years, and this one was really no different.
The same kind of people who were dancing, singing, having
a good time, massive security presence with the Secret Service,
and so the idea of some kind of an attack
being carried out one of these events, I mean, we've
(27:57):
been to so many any of these that, but it's
never something that would ever cross your mind as being
within the realm of possibility. But then you see the
pandemonium breaking out and you see all the concern and
it was amazing. I mean, just in a couple of minutes,
just about everybody in Butler, Pennsylvania knew what had happened
(28:19):
as law enforcement tried to regather control of the situation,
and then segueing here into the RNC, what I would
say is is that very rarely is there much mystery
when it comes into one of these events. We typically
know how a political convention is going to go. But
there's so much anticipation heading into Monday night with the
(28:42):
first public appearance of the former president since this assassination attempt,
as well as the mystery about who is vice presidential
pick would be. And it has just been a very
surreal forty eight seventy two hours from Saturday until this point.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Have you gotten a sense that there's an increased a
little I won't say security, but what about just fear
among the people who are attending the convention? And quite frankly, Robert,
what about you. We've been around a lot of politicians
and conventions and whatnot over the years. The security makes
you feel safe, and it also makes you feel uncomfortable
(29:18):
sometimes like wow, all the securities needed. But you tell me, man,
how does is there an increased sense of fear there?
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Would you say?
Speaker 6 (29:26):
I wouldn't necessarily say so, but there are a couple
of distinctions be made from before the event and now
that we're in the event, there are were concerns about
security from some people here because I wouldn't really know
what the security situation was like. But when you walk
around downtown Milwaukee right now, it is impossible to not
run into a massive law enforcement presence. It's very difficult
(29:47):
to get down get around the heart of the city,
not just by driving but by walking as well. They
are entire blocks that are corded off. And so when
you see that security presence massively, whether it is stay troopers,
local police, or the massive security presence just in general
from the Secret Service that you see about. I mean
that is what people have talked to us, that they
(30:09):
wanted to see that show of force more or less,
and I would say that is a thing that has
put most people at ease here. But of course, going
back to Saturdays, is that there's always been the understanding that,
you know, any kind of a security breach at a
Trump that just seemed impossible up until this point. So
(30:31):
people have been on guard, I would say, you know,
from a healthy, cautious standpoint, but people have felt pretty
good here from those who we've talked to. But it
was on the mind coming in before seeing this whole
security presence up close.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
But Robert, was it on your mind from a personal standpoint? Again,
she just said, your guy that's been around and been
all over the world in conflict. But for you, and
I don't want to say you change anything, but is
it on your mind in any different way?
Speaker 6 (30:57):
You know, It's just it just opens the door of
possible abilities, right because I mean, once you, you know, have
the bubble popped the first time, when it comes to
your own sense of security, then you know, you start
to ask the question about you know, well, if if
you know this wasn't as secure as we all thought
it was, you know what else is truly secure? So
I'm it something that was on our mind. But I
(31:18):
mean not an overwhelming fear, I would say, just something
to be on guard about. There have been demonstrations that
have been taking place here in Milwaukee, but those have
remained pretty tame up until this point. So it's it's
it's not something that has you know, definitely commanded your mind,
but it's something that is always playing in the back
(31:38):
of your skull a little bit, especially after what happened Saturday.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
Yeah, I can only imagine and obviously, Robert. You know,
we've been on the ground and we've covered a lot
of really scary, violent, awful events around the world, and
yet I've never been somewhere where an active shooting is
taking place as a human, not even as a reporter.
I mean, did you were you in reporter mindset or
(32:03):
when you heard those gunshots and you saw the president
go down? Did the human sidekick in I'm just curious
what that must have been like for you, even as
a seasoned journalist, as a human being.
Speaker 6 (32:17):
It's just, you know, hearing all of this, it was
just a shock to so many people here. We actually
had to pull back just a little bit from the
event due to connectivity issues. But then, I mean, you
hear the gunshots and you you know, hear the pandemonium
that is breaking out. I mean, it's just shock.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
You know.
Speaker 6 (32:38):
I don't know how else to describe it as is
that you you know, we're all looking at each other.
It's like that there's no way that that's what it
could have been, right, I mean, we must have misheard something.
When you talk to people on the ground, everybody describes
it the same way, probably the way that you've heard
people describe similar situations in your reporting careers, everyone says, well,
it sounds like fireworks. You would just never think that
(33:00):
that's what it was, that it was actually gunshots or
anything like that. But then, I mean, you see people
running around, you see people concerned. You just don't know
what to think of that situation. It was just something
that was so out of sight, out of mind up
until that moment.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Were you and again, given your experience and reporting, and
everybody say it sounds like firecrackers? Did you right? Your training,
your experience might tell you I'm hearing gunfire, but also
your experience in politics, like, no, there's no way there's gunfire.
There's no way anybody shooting. Did you know immediately when
you heard it that is gunfire?
Speaker 3 (33:39):
No?
Speaker 6 (33:40):
No, I definitely did not. I mean, especially someone coming
from Israel, you know where you hear rockets exploding overhead
on a rather consistent basis.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
It was not.
Speaker 6 (33:52):
It was not something that that's what that I thought
it was.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Well, Robert, thank you so much for sharing your story
with us and come to us from Milwaukee. There on
the floor of the Republican National Convention. And speaking of Milwaukee,
we have Mike Thecara joining us from another location in Milwaukee.
But yeah, Mike, we go way back. Nice to see
you and hear from you. We were MSNBC colleagues back
(34:18):
in the.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Day, that's right.
Speaker 7 (34:20):
And I think you were on Weekend today for a
time and I was filing for them as well.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
So yeah, indeed we have a.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Lot of history, and I can't to hear about your
perspective with all that's happened. You've had a very busy
last few days. Tell us what those have been like,
where you are right now and what you've been dealing
with professionally.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Well professionally right.
Speaker 7 (34:40):
So, I'm the Washington Bureau chief and as such I
sort of organized the coverage for News Nation.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
We've got a great.
Speaker 7 (34:48):
Spot right on the floor our studios, right on the
floor of the convention, where we're anchoring a lot of
our special programming. You know, it's an amazing you know,
it's eighty five million dollars. It has to put this
thing on. And another former colleague of ours, Amy Philology,
is the person producing and organizing and setting up all
the camera angles and everything else, and he gave us
(35:10):
a little backstage tour of that, which was really fascinating.
Of everything in the convention, but for me personally, it's
mostly about management. I'm still on the air a lot.
Yesterday I was on the air a lot from the
floor where Robert was today reporting on the surprise pick
of Jade Vance. I guess it wasn't much a surprised,
but it was really amazing how that secret was kept
up until the very last moment, and the former president
(35:32):
himself was able to announce it and surprise everybody because
as far as I know, it had not been reported
up until he posted on his truth social page.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
So you know, it's crazy, it's hectic.
Speaker 7 (35:43):
There are thousands of reporters here, there are more delegates,
there are more party officials. It's a big party. They
have events every day. You know, there's a certain giddiness
among the people on the foreign and the Republican Party.
I would say that's not unusual for conventions, but it
seems be really sort of turbo charged this year for Republicans.
(36:03):
So it is a convention atmosphere and everything that goes
with it, and now we have some added drama of course,
as we saw on the floor last night. So you know,
as a professional journalist, these things are sort of the
Super Bowl leading up to the election, and certainly the
production and organizing our Super Bowl level. And it's a
(36:25):
privilege to be here to cover history. It's all I'll
say I can say about that.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
How long have you been covering politics? Just give our
listeners some perspective of who we got here? How long
you been government politics? Wow?
Speaker 3 (36:36):
This is like my favorite subject me. I started in
nineteen ninety.
Speaker 7 (36:43):
I actually started with NHK, which is sort of the
BBC of Japan, a large Japanese broadcaster in Washington, at
Washington Bureau at n HK, because I had been goofing
around teaching, doing the English teacher thing after college in Japan.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
So what is that thirty four years?
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Thirty four years? How many conventions do you do? You
have account how many conventions you've done?
Speaker 3 (37:03):
I don't, you know. I should sit down and think
about that a lot.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
It's been a bunch.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Six, you know, and on and on.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
It's been a bunch. So I asked that for this reason,
h we've covered conventions as well. And it doesn't matter
about your political leanings, it doesn't matter. You're there to
do a job. But there is just something cool about
a convention, right it's just the pump and circumstances and
the pageantry and the planning. It's just wonderful and the energy,
and everybody's excited about their candidate. But this is what
I why I want to ask Mike, what did that
(37:35):
feel like? What is the energy like? After that shooting
that we saw in Pennsylvania. Now he comes back to
even a greater heroes welcome that you can imagine. I'm
trying to get some perspective, because these things are great, wonderful,
energetic events. But how did that feel different when he
walked in?
Speaker 7 (37:55):
Well, first of all, you know, as journalists, and I
know you guys know this, you have to a certain detachment.
You can't get swept in it, up in it. You know,
you're not there as a participant. You're there as an
objective observer. And I still believe that's the best way
to go about being a journalist, especially in politics, although
others seem to disagree. These days, I would say that
(38:17):
the events of the last forty eight to seventy two
hours in Butler, Pennsylvania have not only you know, there's
a lot of talk of anger and tension, particularly towards
the media. Let's face it and some of the things
that we've heard of the course last several days. But
I think there's a conscious effort on the part of
from the Candida on.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Down to de emphasize.
Speaker 7 (38:36):
They're trying to accentuate the positive eliminate the negative, like
the old song goes. I do think that what has
happened and the way the President has reacted initially after
that horrifying sort you know, it's a day of infamy
really no matter where you stand.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
I believe there is a feeling among a lot of
the folks that are.
Speaker 7 (38:57):
There, whether they be members of Congress that I've talked to,
or it gets or just conversations in the hall that
President Trump has a you know, is pretty much the
odds on favor. And I don't want to say people
are taking it for granted that he's going to be
vaulted back into the White House, which after all, is
the intention of these what are essentially television show productions
every night for four nights.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
And so there's a like I said, there's usually a giddiness.
Speaker 7 (39:22):
People in funny clothes, and there's plenty of cowboy hats
and people in costumes and cheering and laughter bordering on
goofiness really, but now there is that extra element that's
sort of jet fuel that has infused a lot of
the folks here. I think who, Yes, like the rest
of us, were shocked at what happened and the images
(39:42):
that we saw from Saturday night. But I feel as though,
you know, the way the President reacted, speaking for the
delegates and the people that I've talked to, the way
the President reacted, you know, further lionizes him in their
mind and sort of inspires them. So there's that extra
element that on the floor of the convention, that extra
element of enthusiasm.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
I think, Yeah, we've been we've been watching what we
can from from Italy, but it hasn't been a lot.
We've were seeing Trump walk into the convention hall to
Lee Greenwoods, God Bless the USA, and just mis his
bandage on his ear. Can you just give us a
sense of.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
The tone and.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
The mood of the convention hall given what happened in
Pennsylvania and what you're expecting from the President when he
gives that speech at the end of the week.
Speaker 7 (40:35):
Well, you know, the President himself has said in an interview,
I think it was on the airplane actually with the
Washington Examiner did two interviews the New York Post and
the Washington Examiner, obviously two media outlets associated with the
conservative side of things.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
He said he was going to retool it, make it
about unity, you.
Speaker 7 (40:54):
Know, coming together, because I think there's a sense that
probably just fiab way, that people are sick of it.
You know, people are sick of divisions, people are sick
of polarization, and the fact that Donald Trump narrowly escaped
with his life sort of resets things in a way.
At least that's the feeling that you get talking to
(41:17):
folks in terms of their messaging strategy and the way
they feel as though with their finger on the pulse
of their constituencies that they wanted the direction they want
to go in. Look, the convention is not going to
be one or lost by how the people in that
hall are going to be voting. I think we all
know that the convention is going to be one or
lost by people in the suburbs of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh
(41:38):
and Detroit and here in Milwaukee, which is of course
one reason why this is.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Being staged in Milwaukee.
Speaker 7 (41:45):
And so a message of unity is probably something that's
going to appeal to them more as opposed to some
of the more personal attacks and you know, the schoolyard
taunts that are sort of the trademark or President Trump. Now,
whether he can suppress his natural inclination to do those things,
(42:05):
which you know has worked for him in the past
is another question, and that's something we're going to have
to wait and see.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Mike, do you all have you all made any adjustments
in your coverage, how you cover politics, or even in
your security as a news organization. Have you all had
to make any adjustments based on where we are now
at the events in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 7 (42:32):
Well, not really, And mind you, we're not even seventy
two hours away from that hard as it is to believe,
because so much has happened in between, and so you know,
whether there will be adjustments later down the road, I
don't know. I mean a large part I think. I
don't think it's a secret to anybody that the press
has come under heavier criticism. And yes, at Trump rallies,
(42:54):
the presidents frequently pointed to the riser who are chronicling
the people, and that riser a chronicling what he's saying
and doing and being critical. That's another trademarket is He's
done that since the twenty sixteen campaign as well, and
there's been increasing amounts of vitriol and hatred pointed towards
the press. And I think you actually saw an example
(43:15):
of that of all times, right after the shooting, where
people were turning in the crowd were turning as the
President was being whisked off the stage as he's pumping
his fist. Who were giving them press riser the platform
where the cameras and the reporters are set up towards
the back of the event giving us the finger. I
wasn't there, Robert was there, and so that's sort of
(43:36):
been building over time. January sixth, there was a lot
of anger directed towards the press. You know, they kept
there's an area of cameras outside the Capitol we call
the swamp just at the bottom of the Sense steps,
and you know, folks came along and cut the cables
and the wires and fiber lines that enable us to
get on the air.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
So that's something that's been building.
Speaker 7 (43:57):
I don't think about it too much, perhaps out of
self preservation, so I don't go crazy, but we do
take you know, I want to get into the security
steps that we take. But you know, we do take
steps to ensure the security of our reporters when they
go out into the field to it whether it's a
protest or anything else. You know, you guys know, part
(44:17):
of what we do is to run towards danger. I mean,
we're not heroes, but we're there. And some of us
believe this. It's journalism is altruism for cynics. I'm a cynic,
but I get to feel good about what I'm doing.
And if I can chronicle history and if I can
be an eyewitness to historic events, then I'm going to
go try to do my best to do that.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
I mean within limits.
Speaker 7 (44:36):
I don't want to die, but these those are you know,
that's part of the ethos of what we do.
Speaker 4 (44:41):
Yeah, I'm curious, Mike. You know, we we've been talking
a little bit about this in the podcast because the
hope would be that things got to this point where yes,
a presidential candidate, a former president was shot at and
came within rable millimeters of dying. How is that going
(45:04):
to change? Is it going to change or change how
we treat each other, how candidates treat each other. Do
you think this has any impact on the mud slinging
and what we've seen from Trump himself, but from both
sides of the aisle, in terms of how they talk
about each other, how they treat each other, what they
(45:26):
say about each other. Do you think this is going
to change anything?
Speaker 3 (45:29):
You know, it's a great question. I don't know, and
I think everybody wants to know that.
Speaker 7 (45:32):
And I think that anybody whos been around politics for
as long as we have is skeptical. Frankly, and in
these initial days and hours after the attack, the assassination
attempt that nearly killed Donald Trump, I think a lot
of people are hoping that that's the case. And certainly,
as we were talking about earlier, the rhetoric is being
(45:53):
recalibrated and retooled. I mean, we saw President Biden in
the Oval Office calling for I don't know if you
use the word civility, but calling for civility and a
toning down of the rhetoric. We're seeing Republicans at the
convention here in Milwaukee making a conscious effort to tone
that down. You know, I covered the House of Representatives
(46:14):
for eleven years every day, and I guess I was
a little bit naive when I showed up because I
was under the impression that things were not quite as
partisan as they are. But you know, after a while,
you realize it's not necessarily unique in American history, and
the system is designed with such genius that it's intended
to channel all of human nature's tendencies to join a
(46:38):
group and fight it out right your shirt, skins, red, blue.
Speaker 3 (46:41):
Whatever the case may be.
Speaker 7 (46:44):
But it's sort of, as we said, sort of entering
another level of scariness over the course of the last
few days, culminating what we saw Saturday. So is what
the images, the shocking images and the sort of disquiet
that everybody's experienced, some of us anyway over after seeing
what happened Saturday, will let last. I guess a lot
(47:07):
of people are hoping, so I would admit that I'm
kind of hoping so, but I don't know, I'm a
little skeptical myself.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
After eleven years in the house for every tent.
Speaker 8 (47:16):
Yeah, Oh, they very honest, spoken from someone who has
been there in the swamp and all around.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
So we really appreciate your perspective as somebody who has
been immersed in politics and covering politics for as long
as you have. We just really appreciate your perspective and
stay safe, Mike. And it was so great to see
you again, to hear from you again, and we wish
you all the best and just want to thank you
for being on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
Okay, you guys, keep living the La dolce vita.
Speaker 4 (47:50):
Okay, all right, thank you everybody for listening, and you
know where to find us on Instagram, Amy and TJ
Podcast and you're gonna hear another final podcast from us
from Italy and then we'll be back home stateside. So
thanks for listening and we'll see you soon
Hosts And Creators
Amy Robach
T.J. Holmes
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