September 10, 2024 • 42 mins
Bishop is the inspiration for Angel Studio’s latest film, Sound of Hope. And we hope his story will inspire an adoption revolution in America.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
It don't make no sense that you have four hundred
thousand children in a system and you got over four
hundred thousand churches in this world.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Do the mail.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
What is one church? Every church in America would take
one child? What we would empty this thing completely out?
And if you got to go all the way to
possum trot to show, well, little church send back in
the woods. We're literally nothing that said, hey, look we're
gonna do something about the problem. We see, we got
(00:35):
the problem, and we understand the problem, but we're gonna
do some about it. And you get twenty three people
to adopt seventy seven children out of the system with nothing.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Come on, now, let's be real.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm due Courtney,
I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,
I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm been a football coach in
inner city Memphis. And that last part it somehow led
to an oscar for the film about our team. That
movie is called Undefeated. I believe our country's problems will
(01:12):
never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in
nice suits talking big words that nobody understands. On CNN,
and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks,
us just you and me deciding Hey, maybe I can help.
That's what Bishop W. C. Martin, the voice you just heard,
has done. He and his wife launched an adoption revolution
(01:37):
and their tiny backwoods town of Possum Trot, Texas, until
there were no more kids available to adopt in their area.
They're the subject of Angel Studios powerful new film Sound
of Hope, and they're on a mission to challenge the
whole country that if lowly Possum Trot could do this,
(02:00):
we all can too. Guys. There are one hundred and
fifteen thousand orphans currently waiting to be adopted in our country.
Right now. I can't wait for you to hear from
Bishop Martin right after these brief messages from our general sponsors.
(02:35):
Bishop W. C. Martin, Welcome to Memphis. Blessure to be here,
blessed to have you here for everybody listening. Bishop W. C.
Martin is the pastor of Bennett Chapel Missionary Baptist Church
in the booming metropolis of Possum Trot, Texas.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
So loute, all right, all right?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
How many folks live in Possum Trot?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Six six hundred. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Is that population up or down from ten years ago?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I think it's down down, yeah, down.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah. Possum Trot, Texas, Yeah yeah. Bishop Martin is the
subject of Angel Studio's latest film, which I watched three
nights ago and I cried like a baby. And it's
called Sound of Hope, the Story of Possum Trot. Before
we get into the end of the interview, from the
(03:29):
very top, everybody listening to me, this is you know
that we don't do podcasts for the purposes of book
or movie promotion, so that's not our our typical thing,
and that's not what this is about. This is another
story of a normal person who's done something extraordinary to
(03:51):
change lives, which is what we're about. But on this
particular occasion, I am begging each and every one of
you to go to Angel Studios. I think it's just
Angel dot com and pull up the Sound of Hope
and spend two hours watching the movie that recounts some
of the story that we're gonna share with you today.
(04:14):
It is uplifting, it is hopeful, and it is an
illustration of what normal people can do to have extraordinary
effect on society. I could not wait to meet you
(04:35):
this morning, and I think you're the first guest I've
ever hugged before ever meeting.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
But I.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Just Bishop Martin, I just could not wait to meet you.
And when I say this, I am so honored you're
here and sharing a little bit of time with me.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yes, I'm glad to be very glad to be here.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
So let's unpack this whole possum truck story, shall we.
And I imagine in the midst of this, we're gonna
get some good old fashioned Southern missionary baptist.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
At Pentecosts in there, Pentecost in there.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I may be waving my arms in there in just
a minute, like I just don't care here in a second.
But before we even begin, tell me your name is W. C. Martin.
And you told me the w C stands for w C,
which is funny because I had a football player named O. C. Brown,
who a lot of people know from a movie and
(05:37):
OC's burst kid is OC. It doesn't stand for nothing,
it's O C. So it's funny when you said that.
Tell me where you came up. Tell me how you
came up.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
I came up in a small, real place in Louisanna
called Gloucester Yellow ste r And I got nine brothers
and one sister. And I was listening last night, and
I know the three houses. I know my house, what
(06:07):
I was living at, at our house, and the henhouse.
Those are the three houses that I was familiar with.
I came up very very poor, very very poor. And
where I came up at. I got nine brothers and
one sister. And my daddy was a farmer, and my
mama she uh, she was a housewife trying to raise
(06:29):
all them boys. And when you look at the way
I came up, that was in the back in the woods.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I came up in the woods too. It was a
satan thing that always felt like that. I didn't want
to continue to live like that the rest of my life.
I wore heiming down and they were heiming down one
generation another generation. If you didn't raise it, uh, you
didn't eat it. If you didn't kill it, you didn't
need it.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
So I came up on what I what was raised
on the farm, and what we killed out the woods
and what caught out the waters. And that's why we
raised And I've learned values of family values in the
midst of all of that, and what life is really
all about.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
And my mama.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
She she done the best that she could and raising us.
And I will say that out of my nine brothers
and one sister, none of us ever murdered anybody. And
that was been on drugs. And I've been on the alcohol,
just a drunk. And we'll still here. My mother passed
away years ago, and then my daddy.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
That true.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I've lost four of my brothers and still got five
more left. So and my sister, she's still here. And
we just thank God that the way I came up
was with some strong family values, because that's one thing
we did have.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
We didn't have money, but we.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Had food to eat because we raised all the food
wed acres and acres of land of food, peas, corn,
tomatoes and stuff like that. So we had a good life.
I mean, I think I had one of the best
life that you ever can have.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
It's interesting to hear you say that, because fast forward
to today's young folks. They got a cell phone, they
got a color TV, they got air conditioner. Did you
even have running.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Water night or night or not? Anything like that. We
used to listen at years ago. Gun smoke used to
come on radio Wow, and we just sit around on
Friday nights and my daddy porsch Pin and we'll sit
around and listen to gun Smoke on the radio. And
(08:39):
I didn't know what Chester looked like. They know what
Matt Dillon looked like because we saw it. We always
were here it on the radio, so uh we we
And then the nights that we didn't look at gun smoke.
My mama used to have a preacher that come there
and need to show us pictures every night on Friday
nights about Jesus.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
We came up in that type of environment.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
My mama was a Sunday school teacher and she also
sung in a choir, and we used to when we
wasn't at church, we was doing something positive. It wasn't
It wasn't like it is today. You go to school,
if you want to go to school. It wasn't none
of that stuff. You knew that that was your daily responsibility.
And one thing about my mama, she didn't play when
(09:22):
it comes to you going to school, you gonna go
to school. The two things you're gonna do. You're gonna
go to school and you going to church. I don't
care if you go out Friday night Saturday next day,
but Sunday morning, you was gonna be in that Sunday
school on that front row. We don't have those kind
of values no more. It's kind of hard to find.
And for people who are really came up the way
(09:43):
I did. You know, through the hard times like that,
you you develop a mindset that, look, this is something
that has to be done, so we got to do
so I don't I don't regret my living. I thank
God for my living and the way they brought us up.
Uh what they brought us up and t us that
you don't have to have a whole lot of everything
that be something. You can have a whole lot less,
(10:06):
but yet you can be whatever you want to be
in life.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
So you grew up poor, but you grew up well.
And to hear you say, I thank God for the
way I grew up. When we got folks out here
being victims and crying when they got air conditioning, lights,
run of water, cell phone, color TV, get around town,
(10:32):
help when they need it, it's amazing. And just a
few generations, how our perspective of if we're blessed or
not has changed.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
It has we have gotten a way from what I
believe what real family values is all about. And because
we're getting away because I mean a cell phone. Look,
I was, I was on I was a married man
on a job living in Houston, Texas before I realized
(11:01):
what a cell phone was all about.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Call her TV. That was a big no no. I
mean it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
We didn't have the value that the luxuries for what
children have today. The children are blessed me young measures
and a lot of them don't realize how blessed they
are because of the fact that they got so much
and their parents are working so hard to provide them
with so much. But I think my mama taught us
(11:29):
what tough love is all about. She didn't raise to
get us out of every little thing that we got
into it.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
We got in several trouble at school.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
She didn't run down there for us, had to teach us,
and all that kind of stuff. She taught us. You
go to that school, they got their education, they got
their learning. You go to the school to get what
they got. So if you go out there and act up,
you're gonna pay the price for it. And that's what
it is. I grew up with two and three children.
Boys sleep in the same bed and stuff like that.
(12:00):
But now we got kings, our bed to live in
by ourselves, and all that kind of stuff. We didn't
have all of that running water, We didn't have stuff
like that. Inside it wasn't no air condition. What are
you talking about? Man, We didn't even have a ceiling thing.
So I'm telling you it was tough living, but it
was good living because the value that we have and
(12:20):
what we had, we had it all because we were
talking to beauty. We were talking to beauty of what
life is really all about. You don't even have to
have them every little thing in line to live a
good life.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
I think.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, to have a totally different mindset on where they
had to give a good life.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
I have to believe, and we're not going to skip forward,
but I have to believe the way you came up
and those values have so much to do with what
ended up being so much of what your story is.
But we'll get to that. So you said to Houston,
So you ended up leaving Louisiana. What did you do
(13:01):
next after your graduate? After you left high school and
you left this slow? I finished high school in Houston.
I left that.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
My mother died in sixty four and my brothers, my
baby brother and I. We used to We always used
to fuss at each other a lot. You know, we'll
get out there and lock each other out and be
through with it, you know, but nobody else better not come
and get in the fight, you know. But we just
and so my brother decided to bring us to Houston.
(13:28):
So I finished school. I quit high school and started working.
But then I got dissatisfied and went back to high school.
No one there to make me go back, but I
did this on my own. I was twenty one years
old when I finished high school. Because I refused just
sell it for status quote. I felt like that was
(13:50):
something better for me. So I went and finished high school.
I didn't go to college, but then after I got married,
I ended up in seminary and I stayed there for
six years, you know, trying to learn and do what
I need to do. And that's where see where I
got married at I used to sing with my brothers.
We had a group when we when we got to Houston,
(14:11):
we organized a group calling Modern Brothers and we we
sung for It was four of us in the beginning,
but then again we got three more of my brothers,
so we had a group of seven brothers, eight brothers
in a group, seven brothers in a group that we
sung all over the Texas, all over everywhere. We've been
out of west sing yeah a gospel group. Yeah yeah,
(14:35):
yeah yeah, Well drums and guitars and bass guitars, the
whole nine yard.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
We were good. We were good now, we was good.
Now we're just good now. Yeah, we was good. We
had a very very good group. We recorded uh at
that time it was LP and two forty five. We
like I said, we've been we've been avery were singing
all in New York, uh in the uh we even
(15:01):
been here singing, you know. But that been many years ago.
So after that helpened out of the group. Four of
us in the group became preachers out of that group,
and the other two was deacons in churches.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So we didn't go to the same church.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
We all went to different churches, and we all but
we when we got ready to sing, would you sing
if it's Sunday evening, get together, go somewhere and sing
at some church or some auditorium or something like that.
And we did that for a while. I think we
stayed in there singing here about twenty some years. And
then later on one Sunday evening we went this We
met a group that was in Louis anam that we met,
(15:40):
and they carried us to a possum trot. Never heard
of it before, never been there before. We met them
and they carried us the possum trumk we saw that
Sunday evening when I when my wife walked through that door.
In my mind we were at the time. Yes, the girl,
that's the girl, uh huh. And I looked at it
and I said, you know, I'm Mary her, that Conna
be my wife. And sure enough, she's just beautiful. Well,
(16:02):
it was just something about it that she was beautiful.
She had a beautiful personality and she just stood up.
But she was just a little country girl, you know.
And of course I was, yeah that where she lived at?
She yeah, no, that's a home.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
And what was so amazing about it? After we got married,
we moved to Houston. Well, I was already in Houston church.
She don moved to Houston with me where I were
living at. And afterward we used to we used to
come down to a church. After I started preaching, I'd
done two revivals at Bennet chapel and the pastor was
(16:37):
it was an elderly man and he went to give
the church up and he wanted them, so it was
two preachers. They hurried me pretty to her the other guy,
but they decided that they want They were gonna vote
for me to come and get the church. So I
got the church, and later on we made a decision
to move from Houston. I had been on my job
(16:58):
for twenty six years.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
What did you do?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I was in a steel meal. I worked, we made
we was in a forge. I worked in a forest
shop and the other work. We forged all all well,
part of the bits, and to make all well, two
out of us.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
And I said, so you did that in Houston. Yeah,
Donna married you, all right, So you're in the gospel group.
You get Drugg the possum trot. What you ain't never
heard of. Donna walks in, she looks good, and she
stands out. You say, well, I'm gonna marry her. So
then you do, and then you carry her out of
possum trot back to Houston, where you've worked for twenty
years making. But during this time in Houston, you go
(17:37):
ahead and go to seminary.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Right, I was called into the ministry, and she said,
and she she reminded me of that.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
She said, she never wanted to be married to a preacher,
a truck driver, and a doctor because they're always on
the gold, you know. She said, if I don't known
you were going to be a preacher, I never would
have married you. And I said, well, it don't fll
me talk to God about that.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
He did, one did. That's all in his hand, you know.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
So after I got married and everything, and I went
and see I had unusual schedule. I drove from Houston
to Possum Trot for ten long years. It's about a
three and a half hour drive each way on weekends.
When I got out, I went. I was at seminary
during the week I was working ten and twelve hours
(18:20):
on my job. From six to six. I lead a job,
go to seminary, get home about ten or eleven o'clock
at night, getting my work, my studies and all that
stuff for seminary to turney in the next day. Had
to be on the job the next morning. I did
that for ten years, and three and a half of
those this is what crazy. Three years was every other weekend.
But seven years I drove every single weekend to a
(18:44):
possum trot to preach.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
It was an amazing time. And one of the amazing
thing about it, I've never had I broke down. Out
of ten years, I broke down one time and it
wasn't anything major. The alternative they got loose in the barras,
stop charging and I was I broke down right Well
lead to a place where they went out there the
(19:07):
next morn and the hotel was sitting right there, stayed overnight,
got up that Saturday morning, detained the built up.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I get a guy filed out and we went on
the posta truck.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But
first I want to tell you about a friend of mine.
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This year they have Jack White, Trey Anastasio, Cody Jinks, Sublime,
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from October fourth to October six at the Radiance Amphitheater
(19:42):
inside the beautiful Memphis Botanic Garden. If you love music,
I hope you'll check out memphofest dot com. We'll be
right back.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
A couple of things.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Number One, it was so difficult to pass that church
from wherever living. I can go out there and preach,
but I wasn't passing the church. You got to be
there with the flock to pass them. And she wanted
to move back home, but she didn't want to leave.
She didn't want to move back in the possum trick.
So it taken us about three years to find a
(20:30):
place and then to get the money to move back.
So when we finally got the place and all of that,
it was some years later. They finally got the house
that we wanted and the deal that was pretty good.
We were able to make the notes every month. But
I didn't have no job either. When I got the
(20:52):
possible done no job at all. So what we've done,
we just had to live on fragments.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I said, like that. And it was tight.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, it was tight, It was very tight. I moved
and when I moved, I started moving everything in December
that year. What ye was h shooting? I can't I
can't quite remember.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Thirty years ago.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah, yeah, about thirty years thirty some years ago, you know. Yeah,
And then when we did that, my wife couldn't go
because the kids were still in school. So I moved
up there during the midterm in the December, so she
couldn't come up there until in June of the following year.
So she would come some weekend, and some weekends she
(21:38):
didn and she'd drive up there and bring the kids.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
And so that's when I was right there. You know,
when we started having service every Sunday, because during that time,
people didn't have church every Sunday. You know, we changed
the whole thing. They started having service every Sunday.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
But the beauty part about it is that you know,
she would come when she can, But I kept you
on and I kept trying to find work up there.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
I couldn't find no work.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
And I finally got a job as an insurance salesman,
and I had a debit and a route that I
started selling insurance.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
And because it was a decent living, it wasn't nothing
to being do but go don't work.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
But you know, I thank God today because when we
moved till we still there, the Lord provided for us
what we was able to stay. Because when you're doing
the right thing for God, he opened some doors up
for you.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
And I never never, I didn't miss a beat, didn't
miss no meals at all. But it was tight. It
was hard, but we survived.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Okay, So that's such a sub Now the kids are
out of school, Donnis joined you and possible try that
your home. You're selling insurance, your pastor and the church.
I think I've read there's about two hundred members of
the church right like that. Now we need to we
(22:54):
need to explain church to our listeners. And when I
say explained church, I'm talking about Possum Trot Church. I'm
talking about explaining Bennett Chapel Missionary Baptist Church. Because see
where I go to church, there's these ice views and
the preachers in a row, and we have some announcements
from an associate pastor, and we sing a him or two,
(23:18):
nice beautiful organ music, very classical, very reverent. We'll say
the apostles creed, we'll pray well, we'll pray for remission
of sims, We'll pray for we'll have an extended core,
prepare for our country and people suffering in the world.
(23:42):
Then we'll have another heymn. Off from play comes around
and in my church it's only once. Ain't no building
fund And pastor gets up, has about a thirty minute sermon,
which is usually really really lovely, and then we have
(24:02):
a benediction and really that goes from about eleven or
ten fifty to twelve maybe twelve fifteen. What's church like
at at Bennet Chapel Missionary Baptists, Well, we have a
different twist, I bet you so tell me what that
(24:26):
looks like.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Bishop, Well, our church we start service at ten thirty
every Sunday morning, and.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
We start church. We don't do hymns.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
We start church with uplifting songs, getting peoples involved.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I mean really involved. I'm not saying sitting there. No,
we don't do that.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
You're gonna get some amens and hallelujahs and thank you
Jesus and praise the Lord. And every now and then
you might see somebody running across the floor, uh, the
floor when they're feeling it. Oh okay, they feel the power. Okay,
they feel the power. So and then after what you know,
(25:13):
we have our devotional time where they they sing and
they scriptures and they read, uh they pray. But then
again after that it's on. We don't have a We
used to do regular program, but we don't do that
no more. We just let the Lord lead us and
guide us some. It's all depending on how the movement
or the spirit is going in the church. Sometime when
(25:36):
they get through it with devotion, the church's service is
so hot, I get them to start preaching right then
and there. And whilst I'm on the preaching part of it,
my sonmon, by the time I stand up and by
the time I sit down, it probably gonna take me
about a hour and fifteen minutes. But I guarantee you
one thing, it's not a dull moment in there. That
(26:00):
is there a choir or yeah, we have a choir.
We have uh, we have arguists, we have drums, we have.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
A keyboard.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
We haven't gotten to the guitars yet, but we're working
on it, trying to get there. And I mean they
I mean they playing, they didn't. It's not they're not hitting.
Just you know, in our church, we don't have We
ain't reading off notes for music wise, we're not on
notes from the news.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
We just sing. We just whatever the Lord permits us
to do, we do that.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
And our services if we start at ten thirty, we
get out between around one o'clock.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
And but you don't I promise you you done been
to judge, I promise you that. So I have two
church stories. And well, actually I must say three things.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
One is one, say two. It keeps going after one o'clock. Okay,
what do you after? Church got to be eating and
caring on the big.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Time, big time. I mean we leave, we leave church.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
We're gonna stand around church and talk awhile, and then
after we leave them, we go to your home. We
got my wife with her place down there, and they have, man,
they have a spread down there that you wouldn't believe.
Every Sunday, every Sunday, Every Sunday is it greens and
greens and peas and hot water, corn bread and smothered
(27:32):
chicken and baked chicken and fried chicken roast.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
I don't show up on Sunday, Mandy talking about language.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Now, man, let me tell you one thing. I'm serious.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
I mean like cook oxtail, huh, oxtail.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Man, we have a man. I love me from oxtail.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Me too.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
They expensive, but I love it.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
He's so tender. And I guarantee you people listen to
us right now. Don't know what thing.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I don't know what ox tails is, but man, we
have a spread. Candy, m sweet potatoes, I mean, and
with that hot water corn bread. Man, I don't know
how many people know what hot water corn brad is.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
You know the way my nickname corn well you love it? Then, yes, sir,
you know. So we we have this.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
We have this amazing, amazing, amazing dinner. And the thing
of it is at my wife home where she grew
up at, they got a beep spread down. Then over
here at our sister hall. You walk right here, sisters
stay there, they got a big spread there, so you
can just pick whatever house you want to.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Eat at and dive in.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Church is an all day, all day thing because and
then what we do a lot of them members come
up there and we just sit around and talk about
how the church service was and what points they got
out of it and how everything, how the spirit of
the Lord touched them. Our church is one of those
kind of churches you see on TV where the spirit
is moving and everybody's on their feet. You don't sit
(28:59):
down in that church. It's kind of by the time
you get out, get home, man, your knees, and then
because it's war out because you live canting on us
all day.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
So all right, you got sure your chicken line sure
your chicken.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
What do you say about chickens?
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Well, what we tell him every Sunday is that many
chickens he died that we might live.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
I love it, man, And I bet there's some folks
run post, some truck know how to fry some chicken.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Lord Jesus, I see it one times. The Lord, you
kept anything any better than you must have kept it
for yourself.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
All right. So one of my and I will call
him a brother, Tim Russell pasted during COVID, and he
he came to Memphis from up north Uh. I went
to uh. He was I believe he was the dean
(30:00):
of Geneva College, one of the most brilliant learned men
I've ever had the pleasure to know. His vocabulary was otherworldly,
and his devotion to his faith was an inspiration to me.
(30:21):
And he said to me one thing that I'll share
with you, which is that in America, Sunday morning is
the most segregated hour in the United States, and that
is a sin of the church. And I have never
(30:43):
forgotten what that means. And one of the reasons why
I like to talk about the differences in our churches
is because it is funny and It is interesting, but
it is wrong that I've only rarelyperienced what you're talking about,
and the vast majority of people that are listening to
(31:03):
us right now have either experienced what I explained to
church or what you explain to church, but have rarely
experienced both.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
You know, one of the things that we need to
understand is that and I think this is well, we
have lost so many other young people. You have to
create some type of environment for children to make them
want to be parttakers. Young folks is not going to
be interested in what I call the box type, no
(31:38):
movement just church.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Church is more than just church. In Psums one.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Hundred, is that make a joyful nose unto the Lord
ally land come before his present with singing and being joyful.
When you are joyful, then there's a different expression on
your face, that's a different feeling on the inside.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
And when we go in churches, now you want to
go in there with them.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
You want to This is gonna ought to be a
place off, a release, a place off, regeneral, a nation
or rejuvenation. In other words, all the stuff that you
done went through all the week long. When you go
to church, there ought to be a time or release,
and when you release, it's kind of like there's a
joy come in your heart and you you, you are
(32:32):
so joyful that you began to express it outward. Let see,
praise and worship is something that God desires. Praise is
for us, worship is for him. And it takes both
of them because you have to worship God. Now we
do both of them. We have a time of worship,
(32:53):
then we have a time of praise. And when we
praise God, I mean you might see dust coming out
of the floors and everything else weep into ta plays apart,
you know, And that's what.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Praise it all about. We'll be right back. The second
(33:24):
thing my brother Tim taught me was this, we are
often confused by the building. And I looked at him
like he was crazy as he was eating on a
barbecue ribbt Cozy Corner, which, by the way, Cozy Corner
got some barbecue. That's a Memphis You need to nerve
(33:45):
about that. But anyway, I'll digress. I said, what do
you mean we're confused by the building? He said, Well,
you go to the movie theater, or you go to
the orchestra, or you go to a concert, and you've
got a stage, and you've got seats, and you either
pay a ticket or you go for free, and the
(34:06):
people in the seats are entertained by the people on
the stage. And that is a very normal atmosphere. And
he said, but because churches are set up that way,
people inside the church are often confused. And I said,
what you mean. He said, well, because you've got your
(34:27):
pews or your seats, and then you've got the pastor
in the choir up front. You think that that is
like a typical human auditorium. And he said, church is not.
He said, if you were in the pews, you are
not there to be entertained, true, And if you are
a preacher or a choir, you are not to entertain
(34:47):
the people in the pews. Rather, all of you together
are there to entertain an audience of one. And he said.
People go to church and then they leave church, oftentimes
critiquing the sermon, or critiquing the music, or critiquing the atmosphere,
(35:09):
when they don't understand that they are the ones to
be critiqued because as a corporate group of people inside
a church, they are to be worshiping and praising and
the only audience this God, you see.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
The praise and worship. And I don't believe that you
are to come to church one way and leave the
same way. I believe you come to church, you receive
the Word, you worship and praise God. There should be
some change in the way you go out the door.
(35:51):
In other words, you should if you come in a burden,
you are to leave out happy. You come in mind
confusing them, you are to leave out of there with
a different type of mindset. Because why you the Lord
then visit you, and when you're thinking about God have
allowed his spirit to visit you. There should be some change.
(36:14):
We had a young lady coming to church on a
Sunday here and she just sat there and she just
wept through the whole service. But then when I got
through preaching, she came up and we began to lay
hands on him pray for him, and that girl released
all of that anxiety that.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
She had in her.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
She said that she just couldn't go to She just
couldn't go another day feeling down and out. So I
believe that it's not Church should not be a place
of entertainment, but church ought to be a place where
you can release and you can receive once you released,
then you received.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Because if you come to church and listen.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
To the word of God, you that psumon may not
all be a pertaining to you, are something you're going
through with. But somebody in their church that word of
God gonna hit them some type of way. That's the
way God does it because God bring up people together.
He want to be everybody. So I think that what's
happening now, that's why you see churches now begin to explode,
(37:15):
like because you got a lot of young peoples in
their church that they are coming looking for something. We
are losing and have lost a generation of children. We
got to do something now to turn this millennium around.
And if they're gonna be in the church, what are
you gonna do. They're not coming in they're sending folding arms,
they're not coming in this in it and this little
(37:36):
they're not coming in this center. But there's got to
be something that's gonna trigger their minds to help them
to go forward.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
So as you listen to Bishop Martin, you understand his fire,
his passion, and what his church is like. And so
you and Donna and your two children are living in
Possum Trot. You're selling insurance, you're running your church. You
(38:06):
have a passion of fire to inspire people. Sundays are
what they are in Possum Trot with Bennett Chapel. And
you're living your life, and then something really drastic happens
in your lives, especially Donna's. She loses the matriarch of
(38:31):
her family.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
She lost her mother, which her father had already passed.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
I funeralized both of them, and I never will forget
it that Saturday afternoon, whilst I was up preaching, and
there was so many people in that little church. It
was a small play there as long, and so many
people in the church, the one side of the church
caved in. Whilst I was up preaching, a whole that
just separated from the wall and cave in. Was laying
(39:00):
on the grind and I didn't even know that I
heard the pop, but I didn't know what went on.
So when dona mother passed, I think three or four
months later, reality set in. And when reality set in,
she began to feel lost, She began to feel empaty,
(39:22):
she began to feel that it wasn't no hope.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
So one day.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
She said, Lord, if you're not gonna take this burden
off me about my mama. I don't want to live
in this world no more.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Let me die.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
But then what she looked for and what she got
was told her two different things. And you know that's
where God always worked. You don't never work the way
we see it in our head. So what happened was
he just said, spoke a wood, give back, And she said, well,
what he said give back? You talk about all the
(40:01):
love that your mama gave, you give it back to
your child that don't know what love is about. But
that still wasn't quite clear because for its adoption for
a false we didn't even know anything about that. I mean,
we had zero understanding. Wasn't Donna one of how many
Donna was one of how many kids? I think it
(40:21):
was seventeen brothers and sisters.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
First of all, one woman giving birth to seventeen children.
I remember watching when Donna's mom looked at Donna and said,
I want some more grandchildren. You don't need to have
more than two. And she said, I got two kids.
(40:46):
That's all I can handle. And she said two kids,
that's cute. You ain't even started yet. Yeah, but I
guess when you had seventeen kids yeah. But the point
is when Donna thought of her mother, she thought of
a woman who loved and raised seventeen children. And so
(41:08):
it feels like as she was going through her despair
over her mother, she found a connection back to her mother,
thinking I could give the love to other children that
my mother gave to all seventeen of us. Is that right?
Speaker 1 (41:27):
And that's what the Lord said, give it back? So
and then, like I said, it was seven league kids.
I'm sorry, I can't even get that out of mind.
We have four kids, and I thought I was going
to lose my mind. And I know Lisa damn near
did lose her mind.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Seventeen kids, Yeah, yeah, that's I mean, if you take
a four month break between each kid, that's still twenty
one years of having kids. That is phenomenal. Yeah, And
that concludes Part one of my conversation with Bishop Martin,
(42:08):
and you don't want to miss part two. That's now
we'll be able to listen to as his adoption revolution.
It's coming and I'm telling you it's inspiring. Together, guys,
we can change this country, and it starts with you.
I'll see you in part two
It don't make no sense that you have four hundred
thousand children in a system and you got over four
hundred thousand churches in this world.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Do the mail.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
What is one church? Every church in America would take
one child? What we would empty this thing completely out?
And if you got to go all the way to
possum trot to show, well, little church send back in
the woods. We're literally nothing that said, hey, look we're
gonna do something about the problem. We see, we got
(00:35):
the problem, and we understand the problem, but we're gonna
do some about it. And you get twenty three people
to adopt seventy seven children out of the system with nothing.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Come on, now, let's be real.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm due Courtney,
I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,
I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm been a football coach in
inner city Memphis. And that last part it somehow led
to an oscar for the film about our team. That
movie is called Undefeated. I believe our country's problems will
(01:12):
never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in
nice suits talking big words that nobody understands. On CNN,
and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks,
us just you and me deciding Hey, maybe I can help.
That's what Bishop W. C. Martin, the voice you just heard,
has done. He and his wife launched an adoption revolution
(01:37):
and their tiny backwoods town of Possum Trot, Texas, until
there were no more kids available to adopt in their area.
They're the subject of Angel Studios powerful new film Sound
of Hope, and they're on a mission to challenge the
whole country that if lowly Possum Trot could do this,
(02:00):
we all can too. Guys. There are one hundred and
fifteen thousand orphans currently waiting to be adopted in our country.
Right now. I can't wait for you to hear from
Bishop Martin right after these brief messages from our general sponsors.
(02:35):
Bishop W. C. Martin, Welcome to Memphis. Blessure to be here,
blessed to have you here for everybody listening. Bishop W. C.
Martin is the pastor of Bennett Chapel Missionary Baptist Church
in the booming metropolis of Possum Trot, Texas.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
So loute, all right, all right?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
How many folks live in Possum Trot?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Six six hundred. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Is that population up or down from ten years ago?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I think it's down down, yeah, down.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah. Possum Trot, Texas, Yeah yeah. Bishop Martin is the
subject of Angel Studio's latest film, which I watched three
nights ago and I cried like a baby. And it's
called Sound of Hope, the Story of Possum Trot. Before
we get into the end of the interview, from the
(03:29):
very top, everybody listening to me, this is you know
that we don't do podcasts for the purposes of book
or movie promotion, so that's not our our typical thing,
and that's not what this is about. This is another
story of a normal person who's done something extraordinary to
(03:51):
change lives, which is what we're about. But on this
particular occasion, I am begging each and every one of
you to go to Angel Studios. I think it's just
Angel dot com and pull up the Sound of Hope
and spend two hours watching the movie that recounts some
of the story that we're gonna share with you today.
(04:14):
It is uplifting, it is hopeful, and it is an
illustration of what normal people can do to have extraordinary
effect on society. I could not wait to meet you
(04:35):
this morning, and I think you're the first guest I've
ever hugged before ever meeting.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
But I.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Just Bishop Martin, I just could not wait to meet you.
And when I say this, I am so honored you're
here and sharing a little bit of time with me.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yes, I'm glad to be very glad to be here.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
So let's unpack this whole possum truck story, shall we.
And I imagine in the midst of this, we're gonna
get some good old fashioned Southern missionary baptist.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
At Pentecosts in there, Pentecost in there.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I may be waving my arms in there in just
a minute, like I just don't care here in a second.
But before we even begin, tell me your name is W. C. Martin.
And you told me the w C stands for w C,
which is funny because I had a football player named O. C. Brown,
who a lot of people know from a movie and
(05:37):
OC's burst kid is OC. It doesn't stand for nothing,
it's O C. So it's funny when you said that.
Tell me where you came up. Tell me how you
came up.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
I came up in a small, real place in Louisanna
called Gloucester Yellow ste r And I got nine brothers
and one sister. And I was listening last night, and
I know the three houses. I know my house, what
(06:07):
I was living at, at our house, and the henhouse.
Those are the three houses that I was familiar with.
I came up very very poor, very very poor. And
where I came up at. I got nine brothers and
one sister. And my daddy was a farmer, and my
mama she uh, she was a housewife trying to raise
(06:29):
all them boys. And when you look at the way
I came up, that was in the back in the woods.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I came up in the woods too. It was a
satan thing that always felt like that. I didn't want
to continue to live like that the rest of my life.
I wore heiming down and they were heiming down one
generation another generation. If you didn't raise it, uh, you
didn't eat it. If you didn't kill it, you didn't
need it.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
So I came up on what I what was raised
on the farm, and what we killed out the woods
and what caught out the waters. And that's why we
raised And I've learned values of family values in the
midst of all of that, and what life is really
all about.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
And my mama.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
She she done the best that she could and raising us.
And I will say that out of my nine brothers
and one sister, none of us ever murdered anybody. And
that was been on drugs. And I've been on the alcohol,
just a drunk. And we'll still here. My mother passed
away years ago, and then my daddy.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
That true.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I've lost four of my brothers and still got five
more left. So and my sister, she's still here. And
we just thank God that the way I came up
was with some strong family values, because that's one thing
we did have.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
We didn't have money, but we.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Had food to eat because we raised all the food
wed acres and acres of land of food, peas, corn,
tomatoes and stuff like that. So we had a good life.
I mean, I think I had one of the best
life that you ever can have.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
It's interesting to hear you say that, because fast forward
to today's young folks. They got a cell phone, they
got a color TV, they got air conditioner. Did you
even have running.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Water night or night or not? Anything like that. We
used to listen at years ago. Gun smoke used to
come on radio Wow, and we just sit around on
Friday nights and my daddy porsch Pin and we'll sit
around and listen to gun Smoke on the radio. And
(08:39):
I didn't know what Chester looked like. They know what
Matt Dillon looked like because we saw it. We always
were here it on the radio, so uh we we
And then the nights that we didn't look at gun smoke.
My mama used to have a preacher that come there
and need to show us pictures every night on Friday
nights about Jesus.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
We came up in that type of environment.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
My mama was a Sunday school teacher and she also
sung in a choir, and we used to when we
wasn't at church, we was doing something positive. It wasn't
It wasn't like it is today. You go to school,
if you want to go to school. It wasn't none
of that stuff. You knew that that was your daily responsibility.
And one thing about my mama, she didn't play when
(09:22):
it comes to you going to school, you gonna go
to school. The two things you're gonna do. You're gonna
go to school and you going to church. I don't
care if you go out Friday night Saturday next day,
but Sunday morning, you was gonna be in that Sunday
school on that front row. We don't have those kind
of values no more. It's kind of hard to find.
And for people who are really came up the way
(09:43):
I did. You know, through the hard times like that,
you you develop a mindset that, look, this is something
that has to be done, so we got to do
so I don't I don't regret my living. I thank
God for my living and the way they brought us up.
Uh what they brought us up and t us that
you don't have to have a whole lot of everything
that be something. You can have a whole lot less,
(10:06):
but yet you can be whatever you want to be
in life.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
So you grew up poor, but you grew up well.
And to hear you say, I thank God for the
way I grew up. When we got folks out here
being victims and crying when they got air conditioning, lights,
run of water, cell phone, color TV, get around town,
(10:32):
help when they need it, it's amazing. And just a
few generations, how our perspective of if we're blessed or
not has changed.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
It has we have gotten a way from what I
believe what real family values is all about. And because
we're getting away because I mean a cell phone. Look,
I was, I was on I was a married man
on a job living in Houston, Texas before I realized
(11:01):
what a cell phone was all about.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Call her TV. That was a big no no. I
mean it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
We didn't have the value that the luxuries for what
children have today. The children are blessed me young measures
and a lot of them don't realize how blessed they
are because of the fact that they got so much
and their parents are working so hard to provide them
with so much. But I think my mama taught us
(11:29):
what tough love is all about. She didn't raise to
get us out of every little thing that we got
into it.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
We got in several trouble at school.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
She didn't run down there for us, had to teach us,
and all that kind of stuff. She taught us. You
go to that school, they got their education, they got
their learning. You go to the school to get what
they got. So if you go out there and act up,
you're gonna pay the price for it. And that's what
it is. I grew up with two and three children.
Boys sleep in the same bed and stuff like that.
(12:00):
But now we got kings, our bed to live in
by ourselves, and all that kind of stuff. We didn't
have all of that running water, We didn't have stuff
like that. Inside it wasn't no air condition. What are
you talking about? Man, We didn't even have a ceiling thing.
So I'm telling you it was tough living, but it
was good living because the value that we have and
(12:20):
what we had, we had it all because we were
talking to beauty. We were talking to beauty of what
life is really all about. You don't even have to
have them every little thing in line to live a
good life.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
I think.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, to have a totally different mindset on where they
had to give a good life.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
I have to believe, and we're not going to skip forward,
but I have to believe the way you came up
and those values have so much to do with what
ended up being so much of what your story is.
But we'll get to that. So you said to Houston,
So you ended up leaving Louisiana. What did you do
(13:01):
next after your graduate? After you left high school and
you left this slow? I finished high school in Houston.
I left that.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
My mother died in sixty four and my brothers, my
baby brother and I. We used to We always used
to fuss at each other a lot. You know, we'll
get out there and lock each other out and be
through with it, you know, but nobody else better not come
and get in the fight, you know. But we just
and so my brother decided to bring us to Houston.
(13:28):
So I finished school. I quit high school and started working.
But then I got dissatisfied and went back to high school.
No one there to make me go back, but I
did this on my own. I was twenty one years
old when I finished high school. Because I refused just
sell it for status quote. I felt like that was
(13:50):
something better for me. So I went and finished high school.
I didn't go to college, but then after I got married,
I ended up in seminary and I stayed there for
six years, you know, trying to learn and do what
I need to do. And that's where see where I
got married at I used to sing with my brothers.
We had a group when we when we got to Houston,
(14:11):
we organized a group calling Modern Brothers and we we
sung for It was four of us in the beginning,
but then again we got three more of my brothers,
so we had a group of seven brothers, eight brothers
in a group, seven brothers in a group that we
sung all over the Texas, all over everywhere. We've been
out of west sing yeah a gospel group. Yeah yeah,
(14:35):
yeah yeah, Well drums and guitars and bass guitars, the
whole nine yard.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
We were good. We were good now, we was good.
Now we're just good now. Yeah, we was good. We
had a very very good group. We recorded uh at
that time it was LP and two forty five. We
like I said, we've been we've been avery were singing
all in New York, uh in the uh we even
(15:01):
been here singing, you know. But that been many years ago.
So after that helpened out of the group. Four of
us in the group became preachers out of that group,
and the other two was deacons in churches.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So we didn't go to the same church.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
We all went to different churches, and we all but
we when we got ready to sing, would you sing
if it's Sunday evening, get together, go somewhere and sing
at some church or some auditorium or something like that.
And we did that for a while. I think we
stayed in there singing here about twenty some years. And
then later on one Sunday evening we went this We
met a group that was in Louis anam that we met,
(15:40):
and they carried us to a possum trot. Never heard
of it before, never been there before. We met them
and they carried us the possum trumk we saw that
Sunday evening when I when my wife walked through that door.
In my mind we were at the time. Yes, the girl,
that's the girl, uh huh. And I looked at it
and I said, you know, I'm Mary her, that Conna
be my wife. And sure enough, she's just beautiful. Well,
(16:02):
it was just something about it that she was beautiful.
She had a beautiful personality and she just stood up.
But she was just a little country girl, you know.
And of course I was, yeah that where she lived at?
She yeah, no, that's a home.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
And what was so amazing about it? After we got married,
we moved to Houston. Well, I was already in Houston church.
She don moved to Houston with me where I were
living at. And afterward we used to we used to
come down to a church. After I started preaching, I'd
done two revivals at Bennet chapel and the pastor was
(16:37):
it was an elderly man and he went to give
the church up and he wanted them, so it was
two preachers. They hurried me pretty to her the other guy,
but they decided that they want They were gonna vote
for me to come and get the church. So I
got the church, and later on we made a decision
to move from Houston. I had been on my job
(16:58):
for twenty six years.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
What did you do?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I was in a steel meal. I worked, we made
we was in a forge. I worked in a forest
shop and the other work. We forged all all well,
part of the bits, and to make all well, two
out of us.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
And I said, so you did that in Houston. Yeah,
Donna married you, all right, So you're in the gospel group.
You get Drugg the possum trot. What you ain't never
heard of. Donna walks in, she looks good, and she
stands out. You say, well, I'm gonna marry her. So
then you do, and then you carry her out of
possum trot back to Houston, where you've worked for twenty
years making. But during this time in Houston, you go
(17:37):
ahead and go to seminary.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Right, I was called into the ministry, and she said,
and she she reminded me of that.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
She said, she never wanted to be married to a preacher,
a truck driver, and a doctor because they're always on
the gold, you know. She said, if I don't known
you were going to be a preacher, I never would
have married you. And I said, well, it don't fll
me talk to God about that.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
He did, one did. That's all in his hand, you know.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
So after I got married and everything, and I went
and see I had unusual schedule. I drove from Houston
to Possum Trot for ten long years. It's about a
three and a half hour drive each way on weekends.
When I got out, I went. I was at seminary
during the week I was working ten and twelve hours
(18:20):
on my job. From six to six. I lead a job,
go to seminary, get home about ten or eleven o'clock
at night, getting my work, my studies and all that
stuff for seminary to turney in the next day. Had
to be on the job the next morning. I did
that for ten years, and three and a half of
those this is what crazy. Three years was every other weekend.
But seven years I drove every single weekend to a
(18:44):
possum trot to preach.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
It was an amazing time. And one of the amazing
thing about it, I've never had I broke down. Out
of ten years, I broke down one time and it
wasn't anything major. The alternative they got loose in the barras,
stop charging and I was I broke down right Well
lead to a place where they went out there the
(19:07):
next morn and the hotel was sitting right there, stayed overnight,
got up that Saturday morning, detained the built up.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I get a guy filed out and we went on
the posta truck.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But
first I want to tell you about a friend of mine.
He's got this awesome music festival in Memphis. It's called Mempho.
This year they have Jack White, Trey Anastasio, Cody Jinks, Sublime,
the Roots, and a bunch of other artists performing. It's
from October fourth to October six at the Radiance Amphitheater
(19:42):
inside the beautiful Memphis Botanic Garden. If you love music,
I hope you'll check out memphofest dot com. We'll be
right back.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
A couple of things.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Number One, it was so difficult to pass that church
from wherever living. I can go out there and preach,
but I wasn't passing the church. You got to be
there with the flock to pass them. And she wanted
to move back home, but she didn't want to leave.
She didn't want to move back in the possum trick.
So it taken us about three years to find a
(20:30):
place and then to get the money to move back.
So when we finally got the place and all of that,
it was some years later. They finally got the house
that we wanted and the deal that was pretty good.
We were able to make the notes every month. But
I didn't have no job either. When I got the
(20:52):
possible done no job at all. So what we've done,
we just had to live on fragments.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I said, like that. And it was tight.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, it was tight, It was very tight. I moved
and when I moved, I started moving everything in December
that year. What ye was h shooting? I can't I
can't quite remember.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Thirty years ago.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah, yeah, about thirty years thirty some years ago, you know. Yeah,
And then when we did that, my wife couldn't go
because the kids were still in school. So I moved
up there during the midterm in the December, so she
couldn't come up there until in June of the following year.
So she would come some weekend, and some weekends she
(21:38):
didn and she'd drive up there and bring the kids.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
And so that's when I was right there. You know,
when we started having service every Sunday, because during that time,
people didn't have church every Sunday. You know, we changed
the whole thing. They started having service every Sunday.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
But the beauty part about it is that you know,
she would come when she can, But I kept you
on and I kept trying to find work up there.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
I couldn't find no work.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
And I finally got a job as an insurance salesman,
and I had a debit and a route that I
started selling insurance.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
And because it was a decent living, it wasn't nothing
to being do but go don't work.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
But you know, I thank God today because when we
moved till we still there, the Lord provided for us
what we was able to stay. Because when you're doing
the right thing for God, he opened some doors up
for you.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
And I never never, I didn't miss a beat, didn't
miss no meals at all. But it was tight. It
was hard, but we survived.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Okay, So that's such a sub Now the kids are
out of school, Donnis joined you and possible try that
your home. You're selling insurance, your pastor and the church.
I think I've read there's about two hundred members of
the church right like that. Now we need to we
(22:54):
need to explain church to our listeners. And when I
say explained church, I'm talking about Possum Trot Church. I'm
talking about explaining Bennett Chapel Missionary Baptist Church. Because see
where I go to church, there's these ice views and
the preachers in a row, and we have some announcements
from an associate pastor, and we sing a him or two,
(23:18):
nice beautiful organ music, very classical, very reverent. We'll say
the apostles creed, we'll pray well, we'll pray for remission
of sims, We'll pray for we'll have an extended core,
prepare for our country and people suffering in the world.
(23:42):
Then we'll have another heymn. Off from play comes around
and in my church it's only once. Ain't no building
fund And pastor gets up, has about a thirty minute sermon,
which is usually really really lovely, and then we have
(24:02):
a benediction and really that goes from about eleven or
ten fifty to twelve maybe twelve fifteen. What's church like
at at Bennet Chapel Missionary Baptists, Well, we have a
different twist, I bet you so tell me what that
(24:26):
looks like.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Bishop, Well, our church we start service at ten thirty
every Sunday morning, and.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
We start church. We don't do hymns.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
We start church with uplifting songs, getting peoples involved.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I mean really involved. I'm not saying sitting there. No,
we don't do that.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
You're gonna get some amens and hallelujahs and thank you
Jesus and praise the Lord. And every now and then
you might see somebody running across the floor, uh, the
floor when they're feeling it. Oh okay, they feel the power. Okay,
they feel the power. So and then after what you know,
(25:13):
we have our devotional time where they they sing and
they scriptures and they read, uh they pray. But then
again after that it's on. We don't have a We
used to do regular program, but we don't do that
no more. We just let the Lord lead us and
guide us some. It's all depending on how the movement
or the spirit is going in the church. Sometime when
(25:36):
they get through it with devotion, the church's service is
so hot, I get them to start preaching right then
and there. And whilst I'm on the preaching part of it,
my sonmon, by the time I stand up and by
the time I sit down, it probably gonna take me
about a hour and fifteen minutes. But I guarantee you
one thing, it's not a dull moment in there. That
(26:00):
is there a choir or yeah, we have a choir.
We have uh, we have arguists, we have drums, we have.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
A keyboard.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
We haven't gotten to the guitars yet, but we're working
on it, trying to get there. And I mean they
I mean they playing, they didn't. It's not they're not hitting.
Just you know, in our church, we don't have We
ain't reading off notes for music wise, we're not on
notes from the news.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
We just sing. We just whatever the Lord permits us
to do, we do that.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
And our services if we start at ten thirty, we
get out between around one o'clock.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
And but you don't I promise you you done been
to judge, I promise you that. So I have two
church stories. And well, actually I must say three things.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
One is one, say two. It keeps going after one o'clock. Okay,
what do you after? Church got to be eating and
caring on the big.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Time, big time. I mean we leave, we leave church.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
We're gonna stand around church and talk awhile, and then
after we leave them, we go to your home. We
got my wife with her place down there, and they have, man,
they have a spread down there that you wouldn't believe.
Every Sunday, every Sunday, Every Sunday is it greens and
greens and peas and hot water, corn bread and smothered
(27:32):
chicken and baked chicken and fried chicken roast.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
I don't show up on Sunday, Mandy talking about language.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Now, man, let me tell you one thing. I'm serious.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
I mean like cook oxtail, huh, oxtail.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Man, we have a man. I love me from oxtail.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Me too.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
They expensive, but I love it.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
He's so tender. And I guarantee you people listen to
us right now. Don't know what thing.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I don't know what ox tails is, but man, we
have a spread. Candy, m sweet potatoes, I mean, and
with that hot water corn bread. Man, I don't know
how many people know what hot water corn brad is.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
You know the way my nickname corn well you love it? Then, yes, sir,
you know. So we we have this.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
We have this amazing, amazing, amazing dinner. And the thing
of it is at my wife home where she grew
up at, they got a beep spread down. Then over
here at our sister hall. You walk right here, sisters
stay there, they got a big spread there, so you
can just pick whatever house you want to.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Eat at and dive in.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Church is an all day, all day thing because and
then what we do a lot of them members come
up there and we just sit around and talk about
how the church service was and what points they got
out of it and how everything, how the spirit of
the Lord touched them. Our church is one of those
kind of churches you see on TV where the spirit
is moving and everybody's on their feet. You don't sit
(28:59):
down in that church. It's kind of by the time
you get out, get home, man, your knees, and then
because it's war out because you live canting on us
all day.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
So all right, you got sure your chicken line sure
your chicken.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
What do you say about chickens?
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Well, what we tell him every Sunday is that many
chickens he died that we might live.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
I love it, man, And I bet there's some folks
run post, some truck know how to fry some chicken.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Lord Jesus, I see it one times. The Lord, you
kept anything any better than you must have kept it
for yourself.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
All right. So one of my and I will call
him a brother, Tim Russell pasted during COVID, and he
he came to Memphis from up north Uh. I went
to uh. He was I believe he was the dean
(30:00):
of Geneva College, one of the most brilliant learned men
I've ever had the pleasure to know. His vocabulary was otherworldly,
and his devotion to his faith was an inspiration to me.
(30:21):
And he said to me one thing that I'll share
with you, which is that in America, Sunday morning is
the most segregated hour in the United States, and that
is a sin of the church. And I have never
(30:43):
forgotten what that means. And one of the reasons why
I like to talk about the differences in our churches
is because it is funny and It is interesting, but
it is wrong that I've only rarelyperienced what you're talking about,
and the vast majority of people that are listening to
(31:03):
us right now have either experienced what I explained to
church or what you explain to church, but have rarely
experienced both.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
You know, one of the things that we need to
understand is that and I think this is well, we
have lost so many other young people. You have to
create some type of environment for children to make them
want to be parttakers. Young folks is not going to
be interested in what I call the box type, no
(31:38):
movement just church.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Church is more than just church. In Psums one.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Hundred, is that make a joyful nose unto the Lord
ally land come before his present with singing and being joyful.
When you are joyful, then there's a different expression on
your face, that's a different feeling on the inside.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
And when we go in churches, now you want to
go in there with them.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
You want to This is gonna ought to be a
place off, a release, a place off, regeneral, a nation
or rejuvenation. In other words, all the stuff that you
done went through all the week long. When you go
to church, there ought to be a time or release,
and when you release, it's kind of like there's a
joy come in your heart and you you, you are
(32:32):
so joyful that you began to express it outward. Let see,
praise and worship is something that God desires. Praise is
for us, worship is for him. And it takes both
of them because you have to worship God. Now we
do both of them. We have a time of worship,
(32:53):
then we have a time of praise. And when we
praise God, I mean you might see dust coming out
of the floors and everything else weep into ta plays apart,
you know, And that's what.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Praise it all about. We'll be right back. The second
(33:24):
thing my brother Tim taught me was this, we are
often confused by the building. And I looked at him
like he was crazy as he was eating on a
barbecue ribbt Cozy Corner, which, by the way, Cozy Corner
got some barbecue. That's a Memphis You need to nerve
(33:45):
about that. But anyway, I'll digress. I said, what do
you mean we're confused by the building? He said, Well,
you go to the movie theater, or you go to
the orchestra, or you go to a concert, and you've
got a stage, and you've got seats, and you either
pay a ticket or you go for free, and the
(34:06):
people in the seats are entertained by the people on
the stage. And that is a very normal atmosphere. And
he said, but because churches are set up that way,
people inside the church are often confused. And I said,
what you mean. He said, well, because you've got your
(34:27):
pews or your seats, and then you've got the pastor
in the choir up front. You think that that is
like a typical human auditorium. And he said, church is not.
He said, if you were in the pews, you are
not there to be entertained, true, And if you are
a preacher or a choir, you are not to entertain
(34:47):
the people in the pews. Rather, all of you together
are there to entertain an audience of one. And he said.
People go to church and then they leave church, oftentimes
critiquing the sermon, or critiquing the music, or critiquing the atmosphere,
(35:09):
when they don't understand that they are the ones to
be critiqued because as a corporate group of people inside
a church, they are to be worshiping and praising and
the only audience this God, you see.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
The praise and worship. And I don't believe that you
are to come to church one way and leave the
same way. I believe you come to church, you receive
the Word, you worship and praise God. There should be
some change in the way you go out the door.
(35:51):
In other words, you should if you come in a burden,
you are to leave out happy. You come in mind
confusing them, you are to leave out of there with
a different type of mindset. Because why you the Lord
then visit you, and when you're thinking about God have
allowed his spirit to visit you. There should be some change.
(36:14):
We had a young lady coming to church on a
Sunday here and she just sat there and she just
wept through the whole service. But then when I got
through preaching, she came up and we began to lay
hands on him pray for him, and that girl released
all of that anxiety that.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
She had in her.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
She said that she just couldn't go to She just
couldn't go another day feeling down and out. So I
believe that it's not Church should not be a place
of entertainment, but church ought to be a place where
you can release and you can receive once you released,
then you received.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Because if you come to church and listen.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
To the word of God, you that psumon may not
all be a pertaining to you, are something you're going
through with. But somebody in their church that word of
God gonna hit them some type of way. That's the
way God does it because God bring up people together.
He want to be everybody. So I think that what's
happening now, that's why you see churches now begin to explode,
(37:15):
like because you got a lot of young peoples in
their church that they are coming looking for something. We
are losing and have lost a generation of children. We
got to do something now to turn this millennium around.
And if they're gonna be in the church, what are
you gonna do. They're not coming in they're sending folding arms,
they're not coming in this in it and this little
(37:36):
they're not coming in this center. But there's got to
be something that's gonna trigger their minds to help them
to go forward.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
So as you listen to Bishop Martin, you understand his fire,
his passion, and what his church is like. And so
you and Donna and your two children are living in
Possum Trot. You're selling insurance, you're running your church. You
(38:06):
have a passion of fire to inspire people. Sundays are
what they are in Possum Trot with Bennett Chapel. And
you're living your life, and then something really drastic happens
in your lives, especially Donna's. She loses the matriarch of
(38:31):
her family.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
She lost her mother, which her father had already passed.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
I funeralized both of them, and I never will forget
it that Saturday afternoon, whilst I was up preaching, and
there was so many people in that little church. It
was a small play there as long, and so many
people in the church, the one side of the church
caved in. Whilst I was up preaching, a whole that
just separated from the wall and cave in. Was laying
(39:00):
on the grind and I didn't even know that I
heard the pop, but I didn't know what went on.
So when dona mother passed, I think three or four
months later, reality set in. And when reality set in,
she began to feel lost, She began to feel empaty,
(39:22):
she began to feel that it wasn't no hope.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
So one day.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
She said, Lord, if you're not gonna take this burden
off me about my mama. I don't want to live
in this world no more.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Let me die.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
But then what she looked for and what she got
was told her two different things. And you know that's
where God always worked. You don't never work the way
we see it in our head. So what happened was
he just said, spoke a wood, give back, And she said, well,
what he said give back? You talk about all the
(40:01):
love that your mama gave, you give it back to
your child that don't know what love is about. But
that still wasn't quite clear because for its adoption for
a false we didn't even know anything about that. I mean,
we had zero understanding. Wasn't Donna one of how many
Donna was one of how many kids? I think it
(40:21):
was seventeen brothers and sisters.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
First of all, one woman giving birth to seventeen children.
I remember watching when Donna's mom looked at Donna and said,
I want some more grandchildren. You don't need to have
more than two. And she said, I got two kids.
(40:46):
That's all I can handle. And she said two kids,
that's cute. You ain't even started yet. Yeah, but I
guess when you had seventeen kids yeah. But the point
is when Donna thought of her mother, she thought of
a woman who loved and raised seventeen children. And so
(41:08):
it feels like as she was going through her despair
over her mother, she found a connection back to her mother,
thinking I could give the love to other children that
my mother gave to all seventeen of us. Is that right?
Speaker 1 (41:27):
And that's what the Lord said, give it back? So
and then, like I said, it was seven league kids.
I'm sorry, I can't even get that out of mind.
We have four kids, and I thought I was going
to lose my mind. And I know Lisa damn near
did lose her mind.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Seventeen kids, Yeah, yeah, that's I mean, if you take
a four month break between each kid, that's still twenty
one years of having kids. That is phenomenal. Yeah, And
that concludes Part one of my conversation with Bishop Martin,
(42:08):
and you don't want to miss part two. That's now
we'll be able to listen to as his adoption revolution.
It's coming and I'm telling you it's inspiring. Together, guys,
we can change this country, and it starts with you.
I'll see you in part two
Host
Bill Courtney
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