Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Everybody. It's Bill Courtney with an army and normal folks.
And we continue now with part two of our conversation
with Father Marcana right after these brief messages from.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Our generous lage.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
As an aside, we'll pick your story up from there.
But as an aside, you know, name that there's a
few things that happen to a nation that becomes part
of that nation's collective consciousness, no matter how you worship,
(00:48):
what color you are, how you vote. The Great Depression
was a part of that generation's consciousness. For horror was
a part of that generation's consciousness. And I think not
eleven it's part of that generation's consciousness. But there's a
(01:10):
there's a thing. I fear that there are people graduating
college today that were not alive on that day, and
I fear they will forget because we can't lose consciousness
of the lessons, the heroism, the requirement for vigilance. What's
(01:36):
your fear?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Actually, I've been thinking about that because I cannot imagine
dix t year is going to be twenty five year
anniversity for nine to eleven. I always, from my heart,
I always remember all my good trains that they and
one of the fear actually be able to forget about
nine to eleven is what one of the fear in
my heart actually be able to forget about nine to
eleven because nine to eleven actually was a day, not
(02:00):
only a said day.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
It changed the way we live out life completely.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
And that day when three thousand people die, I witness
it by myself. It makes me very sad that really
and what happened. But I'm hoping actually the new generation
actually understand what happened. And I know that right to
know that there are some movies coming up about helping
to understand what happened to edicate everybody. But nine eleven
is a day from me with a new day in
(02:26):
my life, but also the day that change my life completely.
But also I look at nine eleven is a day
that basically it changed the way all of us how
we think and how we deal with everything.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
So I can't imagine attending forty four funerals some of
the people you don't know. I can't att imagine attending
your best friend's funerals with nobody and depression and everything
so many survivors go all that you dealt with the
visions of what you saw that that human beings aren't
(02:57):
supposed to really witness, but somehow you found strength and
changed the trajectory of your own life as a result
of this. Tell us what your mind went through and
why you're wearing a row.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
In the beginning after nine to eleven, Yan the moment
that when I talked my journeys to go from New
York City to my house I live in South Brunswick,
New Jersey was a tough journey. Also, by the way,
because I had to walk from Walitaard Center all the.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Way to Chelsea Beer which is the Spirit Cruise.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
The Spirit New York Spirit Spirit of New York actually
took us from because there was no transportation on Liberty
can take. So I took the boat all the way
down to the Hawk and then I went home. So
my point to actually hear when I went home the
moment that I realized, I hugged my family. I felt
life is so precious, life is very important. And from
(03:53):
this moment, actually I did the struggle a lot. Yeah,
I had a lot of inner struggle in my heart.
Number one, I had anger, I was angry, I was
not happy, I was depressed. But you know what, I
was quitching God Why did.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
You want vengeance?
Speaker 4 (04:09):
See?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I did, actually, and I was struggling inside myself really
why this happened. Especially, I will say, when you when
you lose some of very close people to work with them,
and in fact, when you work for certain people, you
see them every day, you see more than my family,
it's not easy to forget about them. It's not easy
(04:31):
to move on. And I kept struggling for a few months,
actually where I'm going to go from here. Even in
the beginning, I start watching TV to see what's happening.
Then I reach them and I don't want to watch anything.
And I had anger in me. But the one thing
inside me, I kept actually praying a lot for God
to give me guidance and help. And our church, actually
(04:53):
my church, we have what they call it spiritual Father.
So I kept to see my spiritual Father. His names
I wouldn't be ship Father, we should Dmitry. And honestly,
he did help me a lot to really counsel me
how to really overcome this hardship in my life. This
was a very difficult hardship, and I kept going to him.
I kept praying to God to give me guidances and
(05:14):
the most important thing actually I kept to actually to
ask God why, but help me how to understand why?
Until one day actually, which is I call it the
turning point in my life personally, I realized, you know what,
let me accept to what happened. I want to be
sure he was guiding me. Look Father to show he
was going to milk. You cannot change what happened, but
accept what happened and trust God and move on and
(05:38):
basically try to accept what happened. And you're always going
to think about it what happened. And I live and
never even go away from my mind and my soul
in my mind. Every time as a priest, I pray liturgy,
and I pray liturgy many times, I will always remember
my friend and I live, and I pray for them.
I put in them on the altar and I said,
God reports it's all in heaven. Take care of them,
(05:58):
because these people give the life for others. Moment actually,
at that moment that day, I realize, you know what,
let mixcept what happened. Let me take this to become
a way to change my life, to help me to
change others. And I did a could actually said hardship
can either to destroy you or to develop you.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
And I felt it.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
This hardship that I'm going through right now, I'm going
to allow it not to destroy me personally, but to
develop me and through actually throw throw myself to God.
God will help me and guide me. So also go
and see my spiritual advice to help me. And I
did talk to some people actually also psychologists and psychiatric
(06:39):
tell me emotionally how to overcome this struggle here until now,
I struggle with it inside of me. But I always
look at tomorrow because I feel strongly life is a
gift to God, give it to me. I need to
work and I always this is my attitude. By the way,
since nine eleven, I take every day as a new day.
You never know what will happen today that day nine eleven,
(07:02):
three thousand people want to work and guess what three
sauls and people never came back home for nine to eleven.
It changes the way I thing the way ltitude. Even
it did affect my service. For that reason, I started
serving godalat in the church. I give a lot of
time to the youth to help me. The youth I
give a lot of time to help in the church
(07:22):
and the way the church choose a priest. The head
priest at that time, Father be shared Dmitri the site.
Actually one time you call me said, by the way,
we're thinking about really for you to become a priest. Honestly,
inside me, I was happy because I wanted really to
help others, and that's probably one of the way to help,
best way to tell brothers. And on the other side,
(07:43):
I wanted to be a layman, to just to be
a normal to go out my way to tell brothers.
But I did pray about it and find out my
wife and I accepted the priest.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
So to become a priest.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
A poor kid for a job to the United States
goes to you gone loves March Madness, becomes a construction
engineer at the World Trade Center and through the most
catastrophic time in our country since nineteen forty one, you
(08:17):
find deeper faith, deeper meaning deep through appreciation of life
and become a priest.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
That's exactly what really happening. And it felt to the
God give me the gift. I reflect all of us,
how I grow up in a very poor place in
Egypt and came here and I feel God has been
guiding through out in my life here and I felt
to nine to eleven. Actually, it will be a time
to change me, to help me to be strong, to
be to help others.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Okay, I'm a Presbyterian, alex is a Catholic. There's some
everything represented out here. What on earth is a Coptic priest?
We don't know, especially down here in the South, there's
very few coptic anythings. Fact, when I hear coptic, I'm like,
is that an important word? Meaning the police are chasing me?
I don't understand coptic. Tell me what coptic priest is.
(09:09):
It's a chance to teach us.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
All.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Very good, Thank you, thank you so much for that question. Actually,
a coptic actually where a coptic means gift to in Egypt.
Actually the meaning of coptic when you look at the world,
it actually gift to means Egypt. And in Egypt, actually
the majority people are Muslim and the Coptic people actually
they are a very minority in Egypt. And we receive
(09:32):
our faith when Saint Mark the Apostle came to Egypt
and after he received the fith from Christ himself, and
he stabbled it. The church even we'll call it the
Church of Saint Mark or the chef of Saint Mark, and.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
He choose a fresh pope.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Right now we have our new pope writing out our church,
our pop righting oop to others, he's actually the Book
of the after annually chase him is after Saint Mark.
Coptic people actually Christian people in Egypt. They believe that exactly.
We have similar face to were Orthodox, a lot of
similarity with them. Many different Orthodoxy churches like Greek Orthodox,
(10:09):
Greek Orthodox, we have a little bit different, yes, right,
the Russian Orthodox. We have a lot of similarity with
the Armenian Orthodox. We have also a lot of similarity
with also the Greek or Armini Orthodox. Also many different
Orthodoxy churches.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Actually, so Coptic means Egypt. Coptic means is Coptic a
group of people in Egypt, or just means Egypt.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
No, Coptic is a group of people that really believe
in Christ in Egypt.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Yeah, so in Egypt.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
The Coptic people are a minority.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Are minority?
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yes? Are they is there prejudiced against the Coptic people,
I would say yes, So they're not much different than
maybe Kords in that way.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Absolutely they are.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
We are it takes a certain level courage to profess
a Coptic Christian faith in a heavy Muslim area.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yes, it's a struggle sometimes in certain especially when we
go to certain college.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Actually it is a struggle.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
So when you hear the generalization that all those Muslims
from the Middle East, what doesn't make you feel right
because that is not a fair representation of what the
people in the Middle East look like.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Absolutely, absolutely, and matter of fact, we're always trying to
differentiate ourselves from them because we are actually Christian. We
believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God.
We actually have the Church, in the dogma of the Church,
the teaching of the Church. And also we are as
a Christian the foundation for faith built and one thing only,
(11:47):
love God and love others. This is a foundation of
the Christian faith. And matter of fact, one time one
of the Pharisees asking Jesus what the bitsch to commandment?
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Teach me what's the bubile? Give me the Bible.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
I want to with Christian in the very said, love
the Lord of God from your heart, the love other
the weird as you love yourself. If Coptic people actually
grew with where Christian people. Actually we call ourselves in
the original We are the original Egypt because Islam came
to Egypt while the Coptic people were worshiping and welcome
Islam and or in Egypt in that center.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Did you ever think that you would end up a
Coptic priest?
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Never crossed my mind, honestly.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
So is this entire story just divinity in your life?
In your mind?
Speaker 3 (12:32):
It is actually because I feel like a God was
guiding me in every step in my life to come
to this pomenty even to be here with you at this.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Point, we'll be right back. So what do you do now?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
I'm actually a priest, I serve and SENTI meate a
Coptic orthoxy church in Eastpongebook is still the mother churches
in Egypt, which is under our Loved Father His Holiness
both over. The second, we have the in New Jersey,
we have actually the archidises led by one of the bishop,
Bishop Gabriel, is actually the bishop of overseeing the church
(13:17):
in New Jersey and our faith, as I said, we
are very also similar. We have the civic sacrament of
the church. So as a priest, I always perform a
mini sacrament in the church baptism, confirmation, chrismission also a
christ mission, communion liturgy is the main center for worship
and praising God. And also I serve mini youth many people.
(13:40):
One of my passions actually I love to help people
are struggling a lot faily in anything. I also once
every other year I go to mission trip. Our church
organize a lot of vision trip and we help a
lot of views. Matter of fact, our church build on
children and youth. The foundation that what Mick in almost
(14:00):
I will say, in New Jersey, until nineteen seventy seven
it was only three churches just only in New Jersey.
Now over thirty churches. And the reason is we spread
because the church actually built on taking care of the
kids and the youth and will help me the youth.
From my job as a priest, I go, I go
to the hospital a lot. Matter of factor, ding COVID,
(14:22):
which is many priests could not really leave their home
because I did survive when I live in nine to
eleven affected me in COVID. I told my family and
my kids, guess what I'm gonna go help. Everybody needs help.
So there COVID, I basically went to the we had
when somebody passes away, I will do the prayers for
them from my car. And even even during the tough
(14:45):
months is of COVID, actually I was the only one
on the street basically driving go and praying for people
because I feel God really give me a gift to live,
a gift to live to give. And you know what,
I did survive and I live in I think I
can survive COVID for let me go and let everything,
according to Gods will in my life.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Here two questions, both I'm really curious or probably neither
are easy questions. Have you been back? Have you been
to the museum? Have you been able to go back?
Speaker 4 (15:19):
I have not been back.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I see Freedom Tower from your house. I'm sure, yeah,
I have not. Matter of fact, my wife and I
we've been talking about this for a while. Even Mark,
my son is here.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Somehow, as much I have the carriage to be strong
to take this hardship that in my life failure right
out to turn it around something assigned to me, I
could not come back. I actually was invited as a
nine to eleven work for building. I was invited many
times to go to attend any services in the building
when they open, even the Freedom Tower because some of
the folks that they work right now with the Freedom Tower,
(15:54):
I work with them, and they invited me so many times.
But until now I do not why I cannot go back,
And every time I think I'm going to go back,
inside of myself, I start having fear chilling. Pray for
me that I can be able to go back. One
day we will.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
You said your job is to love and care and
show love and kindness, all of that, and as a
Coptic priest, that is now your calling and what you
deeply believe in every inch your soul. But before you
a Coptic priest, you were an engineer in the World
Trade Center and watched people die, and it has affected
(16:39):
your life and the lives of those around you forever.
The juxtaposition to me is interesting, and I have to
ask this question. Have you been able to forgive those
that did what they did? And how.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I actually forgive them to be honest as you and
matter of fact, I pray them than in fact, I
tell you, the simple story actually touched me. After I
came from Military Center, after I've gone back home from
the boat, I went from Hawk and I walked to
Journal Square in your city. So I took it actually,
and the TEXTI the guy turned out to be not
(17:17):
a Christian person, and I was writing, I said, do
you see what happened? How see how America deserves I
was so upset he said that to you either the
very day that moment.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Actually, and I'm in the backseat.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
I was so upset. I told him stop the car,
you know that what happened. I was actually rightly fighting
with him. I told I want to get out of here.
I better walk, not right with you, because really I
have no heart, you have no heart at all. And
I was so upset, actually, even for that person here.
I always be on one of the being a Christian,
the foundation of the Christian faith about forgiveness. I look
(17:57):
at the cross and see how Jesus forgive our sense,
and I love when Jesus said, actually, Father, forgive them
because they do not know what they're doing. My justification
to them. Honestly, I forgive them because they do not
know what they're doing. If they know what they're doing,
if they know the value of the human being, just
it's not even being a religion or anything, just us
(18:19):
as a human. How beautiful to live in harmony, to
live it good. If they do not understand the value
of the human being, they really forgive me. I want
to see ignorant.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
If you can't listen to that and understand the power
of just a normal guy, a poor dude from Egypt
who goes to Yukon and gets a new engineering degree
and goes to work chasing the American dream, who ends
up the last living soul out of tower I who
is now a Coptic priest, caring for others, sharing the
(18:53):
story not to be grotesque, not to be sensational, but
so that we don't forget, and in doing so finding
and his depth of his heart, the ability to even
forgive the very people who killed us friends. That's powerful.
It's powerful.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Thanks that this is actually when Afternoon a Live In
had an awards ceremony and Mesis Square Garden and it
was actually one of the people that received the medal
it called exceptional outsending civilian achievement to nine eleven. It
has my name here in the back, and also it
has a twin tower, which is very cheerful.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Who gave that to you?
Speaker 3 (19:35):
I actually was a represented for government Pattech. It was
supposed to be governed Batteck. But you could not job
one of the presentative gifts.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
So it's from the Governor's office. Yes, and it's a medal.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
For exceptional outsending civilian achievement to nine eleven for the civilian.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Did they award those to anybody? Possibles?
Speaker 3 (19:54):
And this award actually received by two people, but they
did another award for fire fighters and police officers. But
this is basically for the normal folks.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
I love that it's a normal folks medal, Alex. We
need to get some normal folks medals.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Father Mark. You know, I've done a lot of these
interviews now and occasionally I feel a presence of my
guest or am so inspired by them that I choke up.
And you've done it to me, my friend. You're bravery
(20:47):
and overcoming so much of what you went through, and
your ability to forgive and your basis of your faith
and your love and your care humanity is man. It's inspiring.
So got a room full of people here and I'm
going to see if any of them would like to
(21:08):
ask you any questions. Thank you, Yes, sir, microphone coming
your way so people listening can here.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
You I'm clear about the timeline.
Speaker 6 (21:18):
There one building was hit at a forty five one
with the other hit right after or what.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
How much time elapsed?
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Yeah, number two?
Speaker 5 (21:27):
How much time was there between the striking the building
and the building collapse?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
All right? So building one was hit first, Building two
was hit second, but Building two fell first because it
was hit lower, and so it did more structural damage
than Building one fell. So I'm going to give that
to everybody. Can you put times on them?
Speaker 3 (21:52):
I think in building one was hit about eight forty
six exactly, and then building was hit about or five
or nine. Ver three was about almost twenty minutes between
the two. As Coach Bill said, building one was hit
first but fall second, and Building two actually was hit
second and fall first due to that, Actually the structural
(22:13):
damage happened when the airplane went went on the lower floor.
It seemed like the impact was stronger.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Than building with Building two fall.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
Building two fall I think a little bit beforeteen.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
O'clock and then building one fell ten twenty seven, five
minutes or so after you after after ten twenty.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Twenty seven exactly.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
And then how how much later was the collapse?
Speaker 4 (22:39):
How much what?
Speaker 5 (22:40):
What time did the collapse start happening?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Well, that's what he's saying at ten, at ten twenty seven,
building one, Building one fell and a ten.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
About nine something nine fifty six.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Nine fifty six.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
So what even an hour?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Yeah, building one stood for more than one hour and
a half, because from eight forty six until ten twenty seven,
that's a close.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
To about an hour and forty five minutes, and it
took you an hour and a half to get out
of Yes, yes, so but building one only, Building two
only stood.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
For about it less than one hour.
Speaker 6 (23:13):
So I was talking with somebody on the phone and
watching NBC's camera on it, and I remember his sickly
the second tower being hit because it went it didn't
go through the building, but there was a blast on
the far side on building too. Could you couldn't see
it hit were blocked by one, but you could see
(23:35):
the blast on the far side from it.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
That's my memory of the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
There's also one theory because later on after building collapse,
the established a group by Frank Frank Lombardy, who was
a chief engineering for the Central Construction Division, I think
from the governor assigned a group to study how the
building collapse. Actually, I was honored actually to attend to
one of those speeding and also Building one from the
(24:01):
almost the higher floor they were started doing fireproofing material
on it. So Building one the top floors from seventy
eight and above they were actually having fire radit material
on the on the beam itself for one hour and
a half. That could be a way. I'm not saying
this is exactly, but that could. But Building two is
not did not have the steel, the beams itself did
not have any kind of fireproofing.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Very little.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
It could be a factor. Also how Building one is
stood a little bit longer than Building one.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Too anyone else at all. I have one more question
I'll end with, but nobody else has anything else for you. Okay,
last question and we'll end it after you answer this. Okay,
what is the most important thing you want people to
(24:52):
remember about your two bodies that you had to leave
on the eighty eighth when you carried Mo down. What
do you what do you want to what tribute would
you like all of our listeners to know about those
two men?
Speaker 3 (25:06):
To honor Mo Lips, to honor Frankie Martin, and pull
or thisz I love to help others. Those two people
a good example to me personally, inspire me how they
put their life together for others, and that's something very
important in our culture. Actually, how beautiful all of us
to help one another, take care of another. And Frank
de Martin and pul Or this really did show us
(25:28):
that in nine to eleven, really how to give your
life not only help others, but they basically give the
life for others here. And that's what I always remember,
Frankdi Martin and bor Ordz that always when I remember them,
I remember that how they were able to help others,
go out to they or others, and that's exactly my
job as a priest, and inspire me how to serve others,
(25:48):
how to tell brother I love. One of my favorite
version in the Bible said, actually for the son of
men did not come to be served, but to serve.
I feel Frankly Martini basically was a good example and
polarize helping other tickink of others. I am imagining on
my mind to kid the magic of our society, all
of us here trying to give a hand to others,
(26:08):
help others, and hear others. It's helping other by hearing
somebody talk to somebody, sharing your thoughts with somebody, actually
tabbing on somebody is smiling at somebody. I think our
life here on earth would be a.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Heaven, just an army of normal folks trying to help
one another.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
That's I love this, beautiful go I love it very
much because I love the idea of arm of normal folks.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
Really, because that's good. Thank you so much, good will.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Father Mark, Thanks for coming to Memphis and sharing your story.
Thanks for being here today. I I will never forget
this conversation. And I appreciate you being willing to dive
back into the darkness of some things that were demons
in your life to share with us so that we
(26:55):
understand the story and don't forget. But most importantly, thank
you for serving humanity in the way that you do.
And I don't know how if I can listen to
this and not be all struck and inspired. And it
is with so much humility that thank you for being
with us.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Thank you so much, and thank you Gooch. Well.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Finally, I want to also thank my family. I want
to thank my beautiful family, my wife Dina, and my
beautiful kids, Mark and Becky, because Dina did a lot
they're in nine to eleven to give me this emotionless
support and thank God for that. Yet I want to
thank also my church forgive me the support, specially Father
Bishar Dmitry, my spiritual father. Really he did really help
(27:33):
me a lot and help me to overcome this hardship,
to turn the hardship into become something new. I have
a sure about how to deal with hardship. Can I
share it quickly with please? A story in about you
and I read it and that really gives me so
much about it. Collectually in life, he can be either
a carrot or an egg or a coffee. You can
be what a carrot, a carrot, or an egg or
(27:55):
a coffee. Okay, And that story actually inspired me so much.
Here and a very young woman came to her mother said, Mommy,
I'm really struggling in my life. How can I deal
with the hardship? He said, my daughter, you know what,
you always going to fix hardship. So she took her
daughter to the kitchen and she had the boiling water,
a boiling water presenting the hardship that comes on your life,
(28:18):
said my daughter, guess what, See the carrot looks rigid
and strong. Once she put the cat in that water.
What happened to it, it becomes soft. Don't be soft.
Tell you what about the eggs, Mommy said, Look, when
you take the eggs, you put the eggs in the
hot water.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
The eggs.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Actually what happened, the eggs inside become hardened. Do not
allow the hardship to make you hardened. But the coffee
is beautiful. The coffee. When they put some coffee dot water,
it changed the color. It changed the coffee itself, and
all of us will live on coffee, how beautiful, always
left to be a good coffee and coffee perfect perfect.
(28:55):
Thanks for being here, well, thank you so much. I'm
honored to meet with you. And I think Alex said
everybody here, thank you for coming.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
God bless you, God bless you, and thank you for
joining us this week. If Father Mark Hannah has inspired
you in general, which I don't know how he couldn't
possibly have done that, or if he's inspired you better
yet to take action by acting heroically in your community,
(29:23):
please let me know. I'd love to hear about it.
You can write me anytime at Bill at Normalfolks dot us,
and I promise you I will respond. If you enjoyed
this episode, share it with friends and on social Subscribe
to the podcast, rate it, review it. Join the army
at normalfolks dot us. Consider becoming a Premium member there
(29:46):
any and all of these things that will help us
grow an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney reminding
you until next time, do what you can