Kevin Adler: Reuniting 1,100 People Experiencing Homelessness With Their Families (Pt 1)

Kevin was tired of walking by people experiencing homelessness, not doing anything, and undermining his own humanity and theirs each time. So he finally did something and his accidental nonprofit Miracle Messages has since reunited over 1,100 people with their families!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, everybody, it's Bill Corney with an army of normal folks.
And we continue now with part two of our conversation
with Kevin Adler, right after these brief messages from our
general sponsors. So it's one interaction, but to kind of

(00:29):
a light bulb moment, I guess for you is that
we can serve this way. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
So I mean, and again, the backstory that you know
isn't often shared on this on the on the website,
and the backstory of it is for about three or
four months, I did nothing more. Why besides, you have
a life. I didn't have much of a life. You
didn't get the good bio there. I did not have

(00:55):
much of a life. I was walking down the streets
talking of you.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
That was you know what it was is.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
I can be my own worst critic, probably like many
of us. And I was like, I don't know if
I'm cut out for this. I don't know if I'm
the right person. When I think of a person who
does homeless outreach work, I think of a little angel
some of the people I work with now, to be honest,
who go out with you know, no publicity, no cameras,
no intention of growing anything, and they're just loving on people.

(01:28):
And not only do they know, you know, giving out
shoes today and the whole thing, I know your shoe size, right,
like you're a fan. I was like, I felt like
an imposter, right, that was not my life. But what
I realized was it's not so much homelessness that I
care about, like I care about the issue now, you know,

(01:48):
dedicated to last decade of my life to it. But
it's really not homelessness that kept me going and drew
me to this. It's my core values, which believe that
every single person is intrinsically valuable and that we're all interconnected, right,
And it.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Was just I think that's a fact, that's a value.
I get that's your value, but I don't think anybody
can argue that every single human being has value and
that scientifically our DNA is one hundred percent connected. Those
are facts, right, So there are values, but they're they're

(02:27):
so facts.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
There are facts and values that we don't live into.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
As a society. Agreed one thus the need for an
army and normal folks. But yes, agreed completely. And that
was for me the rub that got me back out there.
That's what did because yeah, because I was like in
San Francisco, and you know, you were like, if I'm
going to live my value, I'm going to live my values.
I gotta go talk to people. I guess I know

(02:51):
something that other people don't think. There's a virtue of
this little stuff over with my GoPro.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
And the wildest thing is it's just through conversations of
people just going out having interacting, you know, hearing their
stories and then hearing the barriers of why the person's unhoused.
Suddenly it makes sense. It's not just this abstraction. It's
too big. How are you ever going to handle this thing?
It's like, oh, that's Johnny, who was the next person

(03:16):
I met. Went down to Saint Anthony Foundation in San Francisco.
They've been serving daily meals there for about sixty so
it's kind of a faith, you know, origin affiliation. But yeah,
they've been doing daily meal services. Right, so soup kitchen.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
So you go down there.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
I go down there, make this announcement saying, hey, I'm here.
You know, Kevin's here. I'm gonna help people reconnect to their.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Camera.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Kevin f Adler, the impostor is here.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Y'all right?

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Everyone yes, grumbles, right, and yeah, I basically say, you know,
you want to want to reconnect to their family. And
it goes over about as well as you think, which
is crickets, right, people just like me. And I'm walking
out just like, great, I don't have to do this anymore.
This was this was my Nobody wants this, no one, no.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
One gives it.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Whot right, like, this is my deal with God. I'm
gonna do it one more time and then if this doesn't,
you know, done. And of course this guy comes up
to me as I'm walking out the door, you know,
bright blue eyes, and he's like, Hi, I'm Johnny. I
haven't seen my family in a long time, in about
thirty years.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
And I was like, God, right now, I got it.
Now I gotta do this thing. Yeah, So we go out.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
I record a video of him to his family. Within
three weeks, all four of his siblings had recorded messages
back to Johnny, and they all flew from across the
country on their own dime to reunite with Johnny in
a hotel room in San Francisco. And I'm sitting there.
They're sitting on a bed almost forming like this v

(04:54):
formation like birds do with Johnny at the front all
surrounding him, and he's looking me in the eye and
he says, you know, thank you for giving me the family.
And yeah, at that point, all right, there's something here.
I got play a role in it.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
I gotta ask how that story.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
About Johnny has done really well. Johnny has done really well.
So at that time, I didn't realize that he was
in the throes of some addiction and it was reconnecting
to his family that gave him a new reason for
a living. So he was able to get the support
treatment he needed. He was able to beat that addiction.
So he you know, he now housed, and he's now housed.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
So what happened years saved alive years later, You're gonna
have to stop for a minute, all right, he saved
a live. You don't want to do that day.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
I think that puts too high of a expectator. Yes,
his life probably was saved through this work, No doubt.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
He was on the streets doing addictive stuff. He was
going to end up dead before fifty or by fifty. Yeah,
that's what the that's what the facts setting. You're a
fact based person, Well, well no, I just like data. Yeah,
and it's your facts I'm just repeating back to you
what you told me.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
And I think my only discomfort with and that's true
is well, there's the ones who we aren't able to save.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Hit me hard, real hard. I get that. Yeah, But
I've said this before in other shows. Something that dawned
on me probably five years into my work in the
Inner City is that if you take a piece of
paper and draw a line down the middle of it,
and then a little line across the top of it,

(06:36):
and you put a plus in the left margin and
a minus in the right, and you start listing all
the pluses against all the minuses, if the minuses outweigh
the pluses, and you see that as a failure, which
in school or business is how you ledge your success.
If you do that, when you're working in a community
like you and I have worked in, and like you're

(06:56):
working in, you'll be the most oppressed Haman being on
the planet. Which you've got to realize is most of
those pluses never happen without your engagement, so each of
them are one hundred percent successes, and you can't measure
the pluses against the minuses in that kind.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Were you a coach in a previous life, I might
have been good Pep talks. That's a good one. And
I and that's true. That's a one hundred.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Percent called the Ben Franklin clothes. Ben Franklin used to
make decisions by drawing a plus and a note. Yeah,
he drew a plus and a minus on top of
a page. You're lying down it thought about all of
the positives and all the negatives that would occur as
a result of what he was about to engage in,
and if the minuses out waigh the positives, he did,
and he found something else to do. And that's effective,

(07:45):
except when you're dealing with a ledger that doesn't start even,
but it starts with a metric ass ton full of minuses.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, and Johnny's story his life was say from their
reconnection and years later as a kicker, he was housed
but as he was talking about, four walls and a
roof don't always make a house a home. And he
was feeling super isolated, lonely, getting depressed. Gained a lot

(08:17):
of weight after beating the drugs, but put on a
ton of weight, and he told me, you know, years later,
he's like, I was getting very depressed and started having
suicidal thoughts. But what saved me two things. Started seeing
a therapist made a big difference. Second was he signed
up for our second program that we created, Miracle Messages

(08:40):
as a phone buddy program, so we match folks every
day volunteers, people who are housed for weekly phone calls
and text messages, kind of like a digital pen pal.
Johnny signed up for that program, unbeknownst that he was
signing up for this thing that he had already done
with the reunions. He got with a friend who they

(09:01):
started having weekly phone calls and text messages and just
having that person to talk to.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
He said, just a little bit of encouragement from another
event being goes along one. That was it? All right?

Speaker 2 (09:11):
So Johnny's two Johnny was the second one.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
But we don't really have an organization at this time.
We have a goofy dude walking around with a GoPro
on the street talking to homeless people. That's all we
got at this, right, So what happens? So I quit
my job. I had been Okay, now you're ridiculous, and
what did you do?

Speaker 2 (09:31):
I was working in the education technology space, so kind
of the startup Silicon Valley in San Francisco, you know,
but I was always more driven by like mission than profit,
and I'd let the mission interfere with profit. Sometimes that's
a whole another story. But this whole idea of like
social entrepreneurship, I didn't know what that means, but that

(09:51):
was kind of.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Like who what I was. Neither did and I'm not
sure I still actually know that bains.

Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, what it means to me
is finding needs like you would in business, but instead
of optimizing for.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
You know, making money, you're optimizing for changing lines.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
That's a really good way to find it, really is,
And we'll be right back. You quit your job, yes,
because you're well balanced, and you decide I'm going to

(10:38):
spend my time walking around talking to homeless people with
a copro.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, raised a little bit of money on like online
crowdfunding to travel across the country, and I had this
thing called the one hundred Stories campaign where I was
just going to talk to one hundred people, offer this
service to one hundred people, and if they took it upgrade,
If not, that's it. And at the end of it,
evaluate my life decisions.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
And see if in the meantime you can connect some
house to people with some family.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
And went to Burlington, Vermont, where I met Perry and
he hadn't seen his son.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Burlington, Vermont.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Of all places, you know, I think there's a few places.
Like the reaction you just had is why I wanted
to go to places off the beach to track.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
That's a good point, that's really well said. Yeah, I
get it, yeah, right, because we see anybody can go.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
To Los Angeles, New York or DC, or you know,
Miami or San Francisco. But like homelessness, we're at the
tip of the iceberg. And I'm even now getting emails
every day through miracle messages from folks who are unhoused,
asking for services or seeking some help in places I've

(11:54):
never heard of in this country, right, small towns all across.
So this would get a lot worse before gets better.
So you go to Burlington, I go to Burlington, I
go to Portland, Maine, you know, I go to Manchester,
New Hampshire. I go to Miami at one point in
Fort Lauderdale, and I'm just offering these services and meeting people.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Have literally walking down with tree sometimes.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
Go into like a local Homeless Service Org and saying, hey,
can I camp out here? For a bit and offer
these services, right, and people are generally pretty receptive to it,
and had a lot of powerful conversations and occasionally would
meet someone who wanted to reconnect to their loved ones
and would do my best to try to facilitate that reconnection.

(12:36):
At the time, it was more posting things on social media,
doing searches, and those posts would go viral, news covers.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
It, people would get tagged.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
Because I didn't realize this until later, but family is
often looking for the homeless relatives.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
But don't know where to where to turn.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
And every day we get family members reaching out to
us saying, hey, my brother's missing.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
This is kind of like America's most wanted a homeless
like it is.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
It's like reverse kind of feel good it really is.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, I started doing that and you know, one hundred
stories in just had had people you know, reconnect get
off the streets, powerful homecomings, some you know, big ones
that didn't work out too right. I can talk about
the successes in there. There's going to be ver yeah,
but there were more pluses than minuses on the doing it.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
So, and and got down to a place where I
was barely getting by like I'm not coming from tons
of family money, and you know, like I just got
you know, trust fund that I'm now It was like, yeah,
I'm privileged in the sense that rock bottom for me
is just going to go move in with my dad, right,
I can go live at his house. But it was

(13:44):
never going to be so I could take these risks.
But also, you know, if you're in your mid to
late twenties at that point, getting down to like six
hundred dollars in a savings account, there's not much he
can do to sustain after that. So twenty sixteen twenty seventeen,
briefly stepped away from mere messages. I started working outside
of that, and I was like, I'm just going to

(14:04):
make money here and then subsidize it there, right, And
kind of that was the play. I could have used
a little more coaching than that.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
And my dad's like, what are you doing? Well? You
are twenty six. Yeah, he's a very good friend of mine.
Told my son when he went to d C. People
need to understand a thirteen hundred square foot apartment in
d c's four or five thousand dollars, right, So you
pile five or six people in a one bedroom and
just live and put A buddy of mine told my son,
great advice is you can be young, single and broke

(14:34):
once in your life. Do what you want to do.
Why you can be young, single and.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Bro that's if you're lucky too. Yeah that's true. Yeah
it's a lucky one.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
But that feels like that's what you were.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, I mean I kept I both wasn't making much,
but I kept my costs real well. So you know,
I found a five bedroom house in the outskirts of
San Francisco. I was the master tenant. Everyone had a
good rent. I had a great rent, right, like.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
The same thing that's send DC. That's what you figure
it out.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
You figure it out and so but you know, it
got to the point where it was just like this
is not sustainable. And I go and I'm working on
a political campaign for about one week, and I'm learning
all the organizing and campaign work and marketing and the
whole thing, and everything I'm learning, I'm applying back to
miracle messages. So I'm like, all right, I can't continue

(15:26):
with this. I sent them an email. I'm saying, sorry,
I can't do this. Go to bed that night, I
turn off my phone I hate that feel of letting
people down like disappointed. So I'm thinking I'm going to
get this, you know, angry email morning.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
They didn't care.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
I was a nobody on the campaign, but I did
have two emails in my inbox this true story. First
email was from Ted head Residency saying, congratulations. We'd like
to invite you to come to New York, live here
for six months, incubate your idea at TED Headquarters, and

(15:59):
then give it Ted time on this one.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Second email, Hey there, we're producing this digital platform called
now This like a BuzzFeed kind of thing. We love
your work. We would like to tell your story. That
video at twenty six million views one million shares online.
That plus the Ted talk led to some funders getting

(16:26):
introduced to us, getting our first funding at Miracle Messages
and twenty seventeen we got that funding. Since then, we've
never missed a payroll and we've grown the team. We're
about twelve thirteen full time. We just hired my successor
last year as a new seat. So it's now become
a legit thing. Didn't start that.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
Way, though, So tell me what this legit thing does.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
So Miracle Messages we help people explore from a normal
guy who was a little bit nutty who decided to
film some homeless people to connect them because he knew
how much the connection from his uncle meant to him.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
And that's where it comes from. How Jesus had.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
A smartphone and the whole weird origin, the whole thing
and the origin of the name was. I asked Jennifer,
who reconnected to Jeffrey, which we call this thing? Like
there's nothing here, Like people are asking what's this thing called.
I was like, dude, goofy guy walks, you know.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
That's very catchy.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
And she's like, well, you know, we're here in Monteursville,
and locally people have called it the miracle of Monteursville,
so maybe we could call it.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
It's like a miracle message. That makes sense. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
I was like, great, it's a miracle message. So we
help people wear a nonprofit five oh one C three.
We help people experiencing homelessness rebuild their social support systems
and their financial security. So we do a couple of things.
We do family and friend reunification services. So instead of
just random people walking down the streets blasting things on
social media, we now have caseworkers social workers, outreach workers

(18:05):
local chapters around the country, folks who are going to
partner sites offering services. We also get folks who are
unhoused reaching out to us directly, often through our either
the website, you know, Miracle Messages dot org, or we
set up a hotline and the phone number is really
easy to remember. One eight hundred, miss you right.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
We own that you right.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
So we get messages coming in, and when a message
comes in, we have a network of volunteer digital detectives.
So these are everyday people who are just like feeling
frustrated and helpless on this issue.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
And like, what can I do? I want to do
something right.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
I don't want to just see people living and dying
on the streets in front of me.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Let's someone listening to us who wants to get involved. Yeah, exactly, here's.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
One way to do it. You could be a digital detective.
You can do digital sleuthing for good and you're going
online making phone calls, writing letters, doing digital searches, locate
loved ones, deliver messages. That process has led to about
eleven hundred reunifications.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah, I read a stat at by the end of
twenty twenty four, So now we're a little bit ahead
of that, but by the end of twenty twenty four,
one thousand people had been reunited with loved ones via
a miraicle messages. Eighty percent of reunions have led to
what you call positive outcomes. That's a lot more than negatives,

(19:35):
with fifteen to twenty percent leading to homeless family members
actually getting off the streets. That's phenomenal. We were always about,
what are we going to do about this problem? Well,
here's one problem reconnecting again.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
It's a first step to family reunification and love one reunification,
not a last step. So there are programs where it's like,
all you need is bus fare to get a one
way bus ticket to go live with your loved ones.
We say, well, maybe a first you know, if you're
reconnecting after years, if not decades, the starting point might
just be I I'm still alive, I love you, I

(20:14):
miss you, I'm sorry, I want you back in my life,
and that's where we start the miracle messages. We also
have it where families reach out to us looking for
their missing relatives who are unhoused in a city. We've
done about one hundred, one hundred and twenty of those
very hard needle in a haystack. Find them cases is

(20:34):
what we call it. But we also have learned that
for some people, families part of the problem, not part
of the solution. You know, there's violence, there's unsafe home environment,
there's reasons abuse, reasons not to reconnect.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
That's totally inappropriate. Have a family goes to foster and.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Some don't have family a foster car and often, and
we've got to talk about this, sometimes the family is
not that much better off than the person experiencing homelessness.
You know, we got a country right now, or one
out of every two people are one paycheck away from
not being able to pay rent, and forty percent of
people say they don't know where they'd get four hundred
dollars for an unexpected emergency. So you know the goal

(21:17):
of this is not let's let's put the entire burden
on families and that's the solution. You got to build housing,
you gotta have a lot of other services. But now,
I consider myself a pragmatic idealist. This is I'm very pragmatic.
It's a step and we all need we all need
that kind of social support. So for folks who don't
have family to reconnect to. That's where we created our

(21:39):
Phone Buddy program where we match every day volunteers. Maybe
some of your listeners know the opportunity for people just
and it doesn't take that much time. You're talking once
a week twenty minutes, thirty minutes a week for three
months is our initial commitment we asked for.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
And it's a digital phone.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Calls and if you're not comfortable phone calls, you do
text messages. Josh, you don't have to meet if you're
not wanting to meet in person.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
It's just checking on you, right, being a neighbor. How
you doing right?

Speaker 2 (22:07):
And we say you're not trying to be a lightweight
case worker social worker because for many folks who are
on housed, including also some of our volunteers are housed,
this may be the only person that they have to
talk to.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
Right.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
We have a real crisis right now where loneliness disconnection
all time high. So we have Miracle Friends is that
program where we match people for weekly calls and texts.
Those volunteers have logged over three hundred and fifty thousand
conversation minutes and you know, lives get changed on both

(22:44):
sides of the legend of that.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
As I get that that eyes get open.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
Oh yeah yeah, and you think like Bruce and Nathaniel.
You know, Bruce, someone who works in your capital. He's
got a ton of resources, he's great. Nathaniel, he's been
in and out of jail, He's lived on the streets,
he's had substance issues. What value could Nathaniel possibly remind groups?

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Well?

Speaker 2 (23:13):
As Bruce would tell it, First, eye's hearts get open
right on this issue, learn more about his community, decide
that he doesn't interact with you often. And not too
long ago, Bruce's father passed. The first person called them
was Nathaniel, as he said, I lost.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
My dad a few years ago.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
Two.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
I know what that's like.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
So for me, this gets us past the labels, the categories,
all that nonsense into just like we're human together.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
We allow humanity to do its things. We'll be right back.
I'm going to read some numbers, and then I'm going
to ask you some more questions. Actually, I'm gonna tell

(24:06):
you a story and then I'm gonna ask you more questions.
The Department of Housing and Urban Development HUD estimates that
five hundred and eighty two thousand four hundred and sixty
two people experience homelessness each night. I think that's that's.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
Way low number, and the latest number is closer to seven.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
Hundred and fifty thous That feels about right.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, but if we estimated my book, it's closer to
six million over the course of the year, with sping
some listeness.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Of those, a handful three hundred and fifty thousand or
so are sheltered. About half for those in shelters, fifty
nine percent of individuals and forty one percent are with
their families. That's the that's one that's start that forty
percent of families are on now.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Right unhoused people are family are part of families, right.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yes, are part of fans. Two hundred and fifty or
so are unsheltered, ninety two percent being individuals and eight
percent with their families. One point one million school children
are considered unhouse That breaks my heart. The total number
experiencing homelesses homelessness at one moment is likely around two

(25:15):
and a half three million and six men over the
course of a year, which is almost two percent of
our population. One in fifty Blacks are twelve percent of
the population but represent thirty percent of homelessness thirty thirty
what I say, thirty seven percent and fifty percent of
homeless families with children.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Homelessness reveals a lot of societal issues.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
My brother in law, a wife, Lisa, her little brother's
been I've spoken about them a handful of times on
the podcast Been a special needs and I've known Ben
since he was four and have experienced all of the
gifts and blessings that has been and all of the
headaches that can go along with his special needs. And

(26:01):
it's not an easy thing to live with special needs,
I'm sure, But I can also tell you it's often
not easy to be the family of someone's special needs
and care for him. I mean, it's just it's it's
hard work. It's work we all gladly take on, but
it does not diminish the fact that it's hard oftentimes.
Ben was sixteen and a half when he was given

(26:26):
the affording the great opportunity to go to a place
in Austin, Texas called the Brown School, which really worked
well with people with developmental disabilities plus behavioral issues. And
it was a blessing for the family that he got
in and he was doing really well. Ben is also
high enough functioning that he knows enough about how the
world works. Low enough functioning that he is certainly developmentally disabled,

(26:50):
but he knows a few things, and he's a lot
smarter as our most people in his situation than we think. Well,
he over the works of the five or six years
that he'd been going to different schools in different places,
he kind of learned the rules around institutionalization. And on

(27:10):
his eighteenth birthday he walked up to the front desk and said,
I would like to leave. And because of the very
thing you were talking about, the hippo rules and be
ensued and everything. They had twenty four hours where they
legally do set him onto the streets of Austin, Texas.
And they called and said, then's about to leave. We're like,

(27:33):
what what do you mean? He's about to leave? He's
got to he operates on a third grade level. He can't.
I mean, it's his prerogative, it's legally his right. And
he says he didn't want to stay here anymore, and
he is not committed here by a judge or any law.
And we got there a few hours before he walked out.
Had they not called us and had he walked out,

(27:54):
I have no idea what would have happened, but I
can assure you, knowing the way Ben looks, knowing his
in fact, his gait is everything, thousands of people would
have walked right by and not given him a second
thought and just tried to stay out of his way,
you know. So I would say our family was hours

(28:16):
away from experiencing a dear loved one and homelessness. So
I hear all these numbers, and I give you that
story to also tell you I'm really sick of my
car getting broken into and having to pay five hundred
dollars to place the window, and all the change being
rifled through in my console. Sick of that too. So
I am a little bit of a hypocrite and certainly

(28:38):
very conflicted as it pertains to all of this and
won an answer, you know. And I think the vast
majority of the people in the country have a heart
for folks who are not well off, but are also
sick of their neighborhoods, especially in urban areas, dealing with
such a terrible circumstance, both on a human level and

(29:02):
candidly on a societal level. For those of us living
with people in this and we have all seen in
your hometown of San Francisco on the news, which I
am certain to sensationalized, but you know what I mean.
In your area, we have all seen on the news
pictures of encamped areas of San Francisco that were once

(29:24):
beautiful roads with a bunch of pup tents and people
being on the sidewalks and drug and some areas down
by the wharf and everything else. That it's not good
for society. It's not good for the people there, you know.
And I'm suret in all that sensationalized, but I guess
what I'm saying to you is I think this whole
area provides just a lot of conflict for people. And

(29:48):
when you hear all those numbers, you're basically talking one
in fifty. This is not an isolated deal. This is everywhere.
Seems to me you have stumbled across a way to
start to help chip away at the problem. And after
ten years, I consider experts. You know. I don't think

(30:09):
a degree or certification makes you an expert in a
certain era. I think the work there does. So I
consider you an expert in this area because of the
amount of time you've spent learning understanding it. What do
we do well.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
The status quo is not working for anyone right now.
It's not housed or on house people. We have to
just start with that, like naming. That is actually really
important because sometimes people are trying to say, oh, it's
not so bad. You don't know what you're experiencing. You're like,
my card just got broken into for the u teenth time.
I don't feel comfortable walking down the street.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
With the kids.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
I see people living and dying on the streets. This
doesn't work for them. It doesn't work for us us
them right, It doesn't look for society. It's not acceptable.
It's also very costly. We spend forty to eighty thousand
dollars per unhoused person her year to maintain them on
the streets. For one, please fire, emergency services, sanitation. That's

(31:08):
a lot of money. Forty eighty thousand dollars keep someone unhoused.
That doesn't work, right. So I mean, even if like
you're fiscally conservative and thinking about the stuff, the status
quo is about the most expensive version of all this,
which is why you know we'll get into the cash thing.
So I think as a society we have swung way

(31:29):
too far to individual agency at the expense of common sense.
And my views on this have only been informed from
doing this for ten years, talking to thousands of people,
listening to families, because when I talk to the families,
they're like, this is no quality of life for my brother,
my sister.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
I don't want them. I don't want my uncle Mark.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Sitting there in his own veces talking to himself, and
you know, being most crimes involving people experiencing homelessness, the
person who's unhoused is victim.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
As I'm listening to you, I'm reminding myself and I
hope all listeners are around themselves. You're the guy that
approached the first guy with your keys in your area. Yeah. Absolutely,
That's where I started. This is an evolution for you.
It's a journey.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
The two questions I ask when I you know, if
I give a talk, and I'll even you know, ask
your listeners, just invite them to think about it. So,
you know, raise your hand if you know if you
care about the issue of homelessness. Every hand goes up.
Say second question, raise your hand if you know someone
that's currently experiencing homelessness. When I give that second question,

(32:34):
it's never more than about five percent of people raise
their hands. They say, well, that might be part of
the problem. Imagine any other issue. You know, we're talking
about racial justice. You don't know any black or brown people, right, Like.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
How are you even going to start? What work are
you going to do?

Speaker 2 (32:48):
You're not going to know where to start, what the
experience is like any of that. You got to have relationships,
you know. Brian Stevenson, Equal Justice Initiative founder, he talks
about the importance of proximity.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
I get proximate.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
I actually think you have to go further than proximity.
You have to get relational. You don't have at least
one friend person you know by name. That's the first step.
So in my journey of doing that work, I started
very you know, give you a sense of where I started.
When I studied abroad in the UK in London. This
was shortly after the bombings that they had in two

(33:24):
thousand and two thousand and five, seven to seven bombings,
forty eight people, fifty people killed. And my dad wants
buses or the buses. Yeah, the tube and the buses
with the tube and the buses. Yeah, my dad just
before leaving for London, you know, study abroad that fall.
He's on the computer and I go and I look
what he you know what he's looking up side.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
He calls me over. He's like, take a look at this.
I was thinking about this for you.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
He's looking at flack jackets.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Where this is where, this is where you start. He's like,
I want you to wear because this is going to
make where a flat jacket walking around London. This is
going to make a lot of friends.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
Right, They're this black jacket on the tube anytime I
see some.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
Of an American in London wearing a flat iron, right. Yeah.
And of course where the cops don't even work.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Anyone who looks any different than me. I'm into the
next keys. I get your keys. This is where I started.
This is my Unfortunately I did not as my dad.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
But the point is that was your ethought.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
That was the water in which I was swimming, right
and uh. And then you know, to bring it full
circle to then meet an individual who reminded me of
my uncle Mark most more than any person I've ever
met in my twelve years of doing this work, and
then asking him the question I would have liked to
have asked my uncle Mark, saying, you know, you're suffering

(34:47):
from schizophrenia. You have told me about your substance abuse issues,
You've told me about your mental health issues.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
You're in that smaller percentage.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
But like my uncle, what do you wish I knew
that I don't know about you? And the guy looks
at me and he says, I just wish people realized
that I was so much more of a threat to
myself than I would ever be. So my education has
just come from those conversations and listening, talking and seeing
people not as problems but as people to love. Because

(35:15):
I think if we love people, problems get solved, which
is why I think there there is an important role
in society. The book, I call for some pretty controversial
things like involuntary treatment and involuntary holds where people don't
have a choice in that matter.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Now that's that's surprising. That flies in the face of
a lot of stuff and voluntary holes.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yep, Now here's the rub, because you know people, first,
what have you done to get to that point? Are
you a threat to yourself or others? Because if not, right,
there's kind there is more of a live and let live.
Also that you know there is a trade off. I
want to go back to one flew over the Cuckoo's
Nest right where people are just locked up, thrown away

(36:04):
the key in these insane as items, these institutions. We
never funded the hatchwork of the nationwide network of local
community mental health addiction service started.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
The involuntary treatment and whole it's limited. It's have you
done everything else in your power before getting to that point?
And and here's here's the rub. So okay, so you'll
hold someone for more than the forty eight or seventy
two hours, which is now what a lot of places
allow as max.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Then on, yeah, because you talk about expense, I mean
it can't go on indefinitely.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
Need housing, so we come it's it's a full circle
thing of coming back to saying we need to build
more housing. And then people say, well, what what what
kind of housing are you talking about? I say, yeah,
plays for it what we do as a society, because
we're already pained.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
No, I'm asking the question. No, I so this is
where my extreme this is.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
You know, anything you thought of me as left leaning,
that probably was, you know, by that statement of involuntary
treatment soldier, Like what is this guy we have in
the Clinton administration. Clinton give you the paraphrase numbers, the
exact ones in the book. He cut the budget for
public housing by about ten eleven billion dollars.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
At that same time, he.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
Increased the budget or prisons by about.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Ten eleven billion dollars.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
So, in a very real sense, incarceration has become our
nation's public housing.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
That's just switched.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
We've switched, and that's very expensive. That doesn't work for me,
that's not a good option. That's also how a lot
of people get cleaned.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
We'll be right back, and we have as a.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Society, created scapegoats for all of our problems. It's easier
to look at someone, look at a group of people
and say they're to blame. If we just get rid
of them or don't provide them with any services, we're
all going to be better off.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
That's never the case. So my view is.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
We need to build more housing of all types, and
it's going to cost us a lot as a society,
but the current status quo is costing us even more.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
So.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Do we need more affordable housing, Yes, we need tiny homes.
Yes we need safe parking sites. People can sleep in
their vehicle, but in a designated area with services.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Yes, and you just.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
Kind of go down the list. You cannot be for
ending homelessness and being frustrated by the status quo and
having your car broken into, and be against developing housing in.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
Your neighbor I'm so glad you said that. That's what
I was hoping to hear you say is choose a side.
If you're not for doing something about homelessness, quit big
about homelessness. If you're against what this is doing society,
then you're going to have to embrace some answer. You

(39:10):
can't have it both ways.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Can I read something to you? Is that awkward? I
mean I've already been awkward, so let's remember you being
awkward at all. Well, he said, goofy. That was your word.
You are goofy. I'm goofy too.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
I like, I mean, anybody who quits their job is
the road talking about my dad was like, what is
your job? Now? I bet your dad thinks you're goofy.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
He less so now that we got fun with me
when it started. But when it started, yeah, it's like,
what is this?

Speaker 1 (39:38):
Okay? So what's your job? You know, just kind of
being familiar with you, I'm giving you hard time. That's
Alex's job. You stop it my show, answer the questions
and move on. You just ask myself my own question.
Read from the book.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
So this is in times of crisis. In the early
morning hours of Wednesday, April eighteenth, nineteen oh six, a
seven point nine magnitude earthquake struck along the San Andreas
Fault in northern California, with the epicenter just two miles
off the coast of San Francisco. The massive quake caused

(40:17):
a conflagration that destroyed some twenty eight thousand buildings in
San Francisco, leveling more than five hundred blocks in the
city center. More than three thousand people died, and about
eighty percent of the city was destroyed in the aftermath
of the nineteen oh six earthquake and fire. Here it

(40:38):
is some two hundred and fifty thousand residents of San
Francisco were displaced, establishing makeshift camps in park areas and
in burnt out ruins of buildings. For a short period
of time, more than half of the city's four hundred
thousand residents experienced homelessness. In response, the city did not
pass anti camping ordinances. Law enforcement was not mobilized to

(41:02):
raise tent encampments and confiscate belongings. Local residents whose homes
withstood the brunt of the disaster did not join together
to form anti survivor Not in My Backyard protests. Instead,
city officials and local residents rallied together to help. As
winner approached, this is what you're getting at The city
built fifty three hundred small wooden cottages for those still

(41:25):
in need of housing, while the army housed twenty thousand
refugees in military style ted camps. Camps formed playgroups for
kids and dining halls for individuals and families, which became
the centers for social life. Tenants paid two dollars a
month toward the fifty dollars price of their earthquake cottage.

(41:47):
Many assembled in Golden Gate Park after paying off. After
paying off their new home, the owners were required to
move their cottages out of the camp, leaving earthquake cottages
scattered throughout San Francisco in an early example of scattered
site housing. In June nineteen oh eight, just two years

(42:07):
after one of the most devastating disasters in American history,
the last camp closed, two hundred and fifty thousand unhoused
survivors had been housed. We can deal with this like
the current modern crisis of homelessness. It's a crisis as
much of hearts and minds on who we see as
responsible for this issue. If we think of homelessness more

(42:30):
aligned with disasters that we're just not seeing. Like if
there's an earthquake, if there's a flood, if there's a fire,
if there's a shooting, we know how to respond as
a community. We come together, we do a hashtag, and
we say the NASA is strong, Memphis Strong.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Whatever.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
With homelessness, it's equivalent to a crisis of that magnitude.
The only difference is we don't see the smoke, we
don't see the floodwaters, we don't see the charred remains,
but we see the survivors.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
All those people, every.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Person you see who's experiencing homelessness, they have survived unfathomable
traumas that once you actually get close enough to have
a conversation, you realize that's a mess, and often through
no fault of their own. So a question as a
society is are we going to respond as we would
in a natural disaster where we mobilize, make emergency ordinances,

(43:23):
we provide housing even if it's makeshift for a couple
of years, or we continue to criminalize the matter. Right,
That to me is the choice that we have.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
What are the detractors from that argument is, well, if
we just give everybody a house, people just quit working
and start going using all the free housing, and then
what you know what? I think that's horse crap because
anybody that can work really wants to work, and people

(43:52):
want to progress in their lives. That is a natural
human instinct and desire. People aren't just going to quit
it life and go live in a free one bedroom government.
I mean, there might be a very small percentage of
people who ride the dole on that, but on balance,
what is the cost of that versus what we're dealing
with right now?

Speaker 2 (44:11):
I'm fifty people who are homeless have jobs. Yeah, that's
the other thing we got to think about. To a
lot of them are working. About forty percent have a
disability where they're receiving some kind of assistance for chronic
homeless individuals.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
The majority, I mean nearly.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
Half of folks have some kind of income, but they're earning.
It's just it's not enough to pay rent.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Right, So then someone might say, well, then move where
somewhere cheaper.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
There ow, I mean, this is the hell where you
know your community.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Just like you said, I don't think there's much cheaper
place than somewhere like the middle of Mississippi or West Virginia.
What's there. We'll be right back. So this leads us

(45:17):
into yeah, we're gonna we're gonna close with something direct cash.
But this leads us into something that I gotta be
honest with you, dude, A bristle, a pucker a little
bit when I hear it, you know, go ahead and
broach it. Okay, Well, let.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Me share my journey getting into this. And we're talking
about it direct cash transfer.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
I think perspective. To share my perspective.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
So we do the reunion program at Miracle Messages, we
do the phone Buddy program, and this is, uh, you know,
we're looking at twenty twenty when we do the phone
Buddy in the summer. By that fall, so we're talking
like three or four months in. We started hearing from
our volunteers, housed volunteers all around the country saying, hey,

(46:04):
I've been matched with this person now a couple months.
This person's a good, good guy, good lady, I like them,
I respect them. They're telling me about the barriers and
challenges they face to housing. I don't know how to
get them into housing that seems almost insurmountable. What I
do know is, now that you've asked me to be
their friend, I'm not going to turn my face and

(46:27):
give them a blind eye when they don't know how
they're going to get food tonight to feed their kids,
or how on Monday they're going to get gas in
their car to get back to work because they got
a job. They just can barely get by. So either
you give them money or I'm going to give them money.
That was the starting point. So I was skeptical, and

(46:50):
so I said, Okay, any amount of money we give folks,
it's not just that you know, there's are they going
to blow it on substances? We can have that conversation
right outside of that, A couple hundred dollars a month
was that.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
Going to do? How is that going to make it do?
For anyone? Right? It was like it's Bay Area where
I was based. You would almost say a couple hundred
bucks a month absolutely go into a bottle or a needle,
because it's not going to do anything else.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
I didn't know, didn't know. But again, the best thing
I've done on this whole journey bill is that I
started from this premise of I don't know a thing
about homelessness. I've never lived a day of my life homeless.
I had an uncle who was holmeless. A lot of
people have had uncles who were homeless. So was just
listening to people, right, and I heard over and over
again people say, I give them money, they need the money.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
Who's going to do it?

Speaker 2 (47:38):
So we raised a little bit of money, all private, right,
individual philanthropy.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
No tax money, yeah, no public fund.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
No, no, No, it's just you know, a little experiment. Let's
try it, yeah, pilot, let's just try this out. We
raised about fifty thousand dollars to give out five hundred
dollars a month for six months. We could afford given
it to fourteen people who are in our Phone Buddy program,
all of whom had been nominated by their own house friends.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
That's cool, vouching for right.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
And we had, you know, at that point, eighty people
in the program participating, eighty pairs, and I think we
had about fifty or sixty nominations, so the vast majority
select fourteen individuals from those fifty or sixty five hundred
dollars a month for six months. Within six months, two

(48:30):
thirds of those individuals who had secured were able to
secure housing using that five hundred dollars a month. They
off off the streets six sixty percent. Super small sample size, Like,
let's say, this is not scientific. This is two thirds
of them secured housing. You know, Elizabeth became eligible for

(48:52):
senior housing, which required a minimum monthly contribution. She was
able to make that. She's now in her forever home,
was able to find a housemate, pay towards half the
month's rent out of state, moved in in Kansas with
a housemate, and you can kind of go on. This
person was able to get into an SRO. This person

(49:14):
was now not feeling like they'd be a burden to
go live with their family and pay a little bit
every month.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
Couple, they want to pay to their family, They want
to order to participate cover their portion.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
Like that, that same desire of not wanting to be
a burden, that disconnection, that's because of that individual responsibility,
That ethos is in our unhoused neighbor's hearts and minds too.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
Do you think them knowing it was six months, right,
six months, five hundred bucks. Do you think them knowing
that there was a sunset date on this gift also helped?
In other words, I got six months to use this
money to get something done, because I think if you
just say you're getting five hundred dollars a month, but

(49:57):
if you're getting five hundred dollars a month with a
sunset date, this is your shot. This is your chance
to get a little bit of a hand up. This
is not a handout, but a hand up. Do you
think a sunset date helps for some? For some?

Speaker 2 (50:10):
I think it's also for some Like if you have
zero dollars and then you know you're going to get
five hundred dollars a month for six months, I'm immediately
feeling anxious about what's happening after month six, no doubt, right,
So it's not like you're just settling into your life.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
It's fair, that makes sense, right, And what.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
We saw just as interesting because that again super small
sample size. We wouldn't be able to replicate that two
thirds game off the streets. It was an odd time
also with the pandemic and things going on, but what
we saw just as interesting and to this, you know,
rub the wrong way or this bristle at that you mentioned,
looked at spending habits. Third of the money was spent

(50:56):
on food, a third was spent on housing or rent,
the last third spent on everything from childcare to emergencies,
to storage, to pain down debt to close How much
Style coolund about two percent, which was less than when
we started.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
That's not what the fearmongers on the news say will.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
Happen because they want you to keep watching the news.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
I love you, that's right, that's exactly right. You're no
longer goofy. You're brilliant. But it's true. It's one of
the things we talk about all the time is that
there's an enormous amount of power and wealth concentrated in
the narrative makers. And the more that they scare you,
and the more they freak you out, more you tune in,

(51:42):
and unfortunately, the dumber we get about the issues that
are really facing us.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
And so we because I wanted to figure out the
scientific part of this, we ended up growing on this.
And I was skeptical at first. Remember this whole thing
direct cash, right, the whole thing ended up getting some
funding from Google dot Org, a few you know, private families, individuals,
no government funding into this, but we were able to

(52:09):
get two point one million dollars and created a randomized
controlled trial where we gave out seven hundred and fifty
dollars a month for twelve months over one hundred people
experiencing homelessness all throughout the state of California. We're going
to be releasing the results for that pretty soon. But
what I can tell you is, are you breaking news
on my show?

Speaker 1 (52:29):
The ratios? Are you breaking some news on the breaking news?

Speaker 2 (52:33):
I mean, I got the eyeballs too.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
Here we go.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
The ratios of where money was spent is almost identical
to that small little pilot, about a third on housing,
third on food, and the last third food or sorry
childcare emergencies clothes. The first person who I gave we
gave the money to Elizabeth. The first thing she did

(52:56):
with the money was she made a donation to Miracle Messages,
kidding me and I I respond.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
I looked at her.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
I was like, Elizabeth, you didn't need to do this.
This wasn't part of the expectation. She looked at me
and she said, I kid you not. She says, well,
I didn't do it for you. I did it for
myself so I could once again feel the dignity of
being able to support the causes I believe. But to me,
this is not just a question about the base of
massos hierarchy, food, water, shelter, clothing, housing, which we all need.

(53:26):
This is about love, belonging, community, dignit.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
So as I hear all of this, maybe this what's
the catchphrase for this thing? What's the catchphrase for actually
just providing money for the homeless thing? It's the not
the catch phrase. What's the term university direct cash? Just
direct cash transfers.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
Basic income there loving I mean basic in come. Though
it can get into a loaded thing that assumes like
everyone's getting basic income same amount. It gets the political
you know, like it was just at the end of
the day, we're giving people cash.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Right now, we're spending cash. But we're giving them cash
and not really providing a lot of oversight, but trusting
that they're going to do the right things with it
they spend Your two pilots have proven.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
They spend it better than we could have spent it
for them.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
That's the point. Yeah, they bought them, not top down.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
Yeah, that's right, and we trust people. And so if
you want people to act as you'd like them to act,
you treat them the way you'd want to be treated.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
Shocking, the Golden rule still works. Really, I think some
of us skipped kindergarten. Yeah, all right, I'm gonna let
you sign off in a special way. But first I
want you to if those of those listening have been
convinced that they can be a message friend, they can

(54:54):
be a sleuth, persons, miracle messenger.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
What's the people be a digital detective, a digital detector,
or join a chapter, a local chatter, all of these
things locally.

Speaker 4 (55:06):
One other thing too, is probably a lot of people
listening either know people at the local homeless shelter or
they volunteer with them already. And so there probably is
a great part. I think you guys are already partnering with
like eighty homeless shelters around the country. That and they're
local ones. If they can hook the local ones up
with Miracle Messages, So how.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
Do they find out all that stuff?

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Yeah, they can reach out to me if they want.
Uh So, my email is Kevin at Miracle Messages dot org,
or go to our website.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
We have a get.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Involved form Miracle Messages dot org and then click they
get involved link and then just let us know how
you're interested in getting involved. We'll connect you up with
other folks in your community. If you're interested in doing
local outreach at a local partner site, we'll do the training,
the support. But yeah, we need If there's no other
lesson from this book, from this conversation, and what I

(55:56):
wrote in my book, it's that we say Miracle Messages,
no one should go through homelessness alone. I wish I
could end that a word early, no one should go
through homelessness, but well, homelessness is a thing. It should
not be a fundamentally isolating, otherizing thing. And the second
part of the mission, as we say, no one should
feel helpless on this issue.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
There's just way too much good work for people to do.
So if through our conversation you've been convinced you need
to get involved, that's how you get in touch. If
through my conversation on a cerebral or academic level, maybe
some of your prea can conceived notions have been challenged,
which I have to admit some of mine have. The

(56:38):
book When we walk by Forgotten Humanity, the titles when
We Walk By. The subtitle is Forgotten Humanity, Broken Systems
in the role we can each play in Ending Homelessness
in America by Publishers Weekly. I must read for anyone
interesting and solving the problem of homeless business. And I

(57:00):
don't know anybody walk in the face of the planet
in the United States that isn't interested, either from an
idealistic or pragmatic stance, to understand. This is an issue
gots solved. And so the book might challenge some preconceived notions,
and for some of you it might solidify the way
you've thought. But I highly suggest it because it uses

(57:22):
data fact in real life experience to kind of open
our minds to the things we can be doing differently
we must be doing. So often talk in speeches about
my wife Lisa, because she's hot and she's also pretty cool.
I tell people she's my compass because it is when
I start thinking far too great of myself that she

(57:44):
will remind me that I'm just a jackass from Memphis
who coaches football and as a lumber company. And you know,
if you leave DC and fly all the way around
the world and land back in d C, if your
compass is off only three degrees. By the time you
get back to DC, you would actually land in Nova Scotia.
Three percent doesn't sound like a lot, but on the
trip of life, if you get off off path only

(58:06):
three degrees, you will be so far away from where
you're supposed to end up. And we need a compass.
Seems to me you have one too. I thought i'd
let you read this and hopefully she'll listen.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
If I seem a bit more patient at work these days,
and listen more fully before responding. If I've grown as
a leader by admitting more of what I don't know,
which is a lot, and bring a little more playfulness
into public speaking. If I'm a better colleague, thought, partner,
and friend. It's because I married my best friend.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
When did that happen?

Speaker 2 (58:43):
We had our wedding about a year ago. Yeah, this
past weekend, Memorial Day weekend graduation.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Yeah, thank you. And I guess she's as vested in
this as you are.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
Has to be her first question to me when we
had we met through one of the dating apps. She
her first Russian is what are your values?

Speaker 1 (59:04):
Asking? That is enough? You know right?

Speaker 2 (59:07):
This It's just like, oh, going there, Okay, we're going
to start there. She's Yeah, she's She's the best human
I've ever met. It's an incredible person, incredibly warm and
incredibly strong, like my mom. I mean, it's you know,
I see a lot of those qualities. I wish they
had had a chance to meet. She's she inspires me

(59:29):
every day to be a better person, but loves me
unconditionally even when I'm not.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
It's pretty awesome. Yeah, dude, I think you're doing God's work.
I think you're you're doing God's work both for the
homelessness and for families. But maybe even now, after these
ten years and you have a staff doing the minutia
of the daily maybe even now the work is too.
It's to use this platform to change bonds, open eyes,

(59:57):
challenge preconceived notions of perspective, and maybe maybe lead us
as a as a culture to finding solutions for a
problem that affects us all. And so I applaud you.
I'm inspired by you, and I'll really thank you for
joining us and telling us your story. And I'll let
you tease as we end the next project. It's an

(01:00:20):
honor to be here with you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
I Yeah, just a big fan of yours and the
work you've done.

Speaker 4 (01:00:26):
No, thanks, you actually haven't mentioned that, Kevin tell Bill
you've seen Undefeated like a decade ago.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
And if you did a decade ago, and I even
found it in my spreadsheet of the movies I've seen
with a little bit of my my synopsis and takeaways,
it's like terrific film of life and life lessons on
and off the football field.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
Well, thank you? Did you say this, goofy fat red
edit guy catching football? You should have said something like that.
If you're a goofy, then I'll embrace that goofy. I
love it. Now with the next project, let's in there.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
So planning to start working on my next book. And
that book is you know, when we walk by is
really trying to answer this question, why are so many
people experiencing homelessness? You know we hear that all the time,
talk about the broken systems, the broken humanity, and one
hundred pages of solutions for those broken humanity, broken systems.

(01:01:22):
Equally important question that just never gets asked. With one
out of two Americans a paycheck away from not paying rent,
forty percent of people don't know where they get four
hundred bucks for emergency, why aren't more people experiencing homelessness.
Why is in half the country homeless right now? And
the hypothesis is, it's family, it's friends, it's community, it's

(01:01:43):
faith based groups, it's social capital doubled up, tripled up
informal economy making up that difference. I don't think that
gets talked about nearly enough, and I don't think that's
well understood.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Also maybe part of the answer.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
I think if it's happening, it needs to be invested in.
And then it raises questions like, what does public policy
need to look like? If social support is playing this
critical but overlooked role, how do we make sure it's
reinforced and supported?

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
All right, Well, hurry up and write the damn things
so I can have you bet ah. Okay, that sounds good.
All right, buddy, Thanks for being with us. Appreciate you. Yeah,
I agree, and thank you for joining us this week.
If Kevin Appler has inspired you in general or better yet,
to take action by referring someone experiencing homelessness to miracle messages,

(01:02:34):
becoming a digital detective, joining the phone buddy program, engaging
your local shelter about miracle messages, donating to them, or
something else, entirely. Let me know I want to hear
about it. You can write me anytime at Bill at
normalfolks dot us and I will respond. If you enjoyed

(01:02:56):
this episode, please share it with friends and on social
Subscribe to the podcast, rate it, review it, Join the
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There all of these things, any and all of these
things that will help us grow an army of normal folks.
I'm Bill Courtney. Until next time, do what you can