August 5, 2025 • 60 mins
After black snow rained down on her on 9/11, Nancy knocked on the door of local firehouses to see how she could help. When several firefighters told her that they’d need counseling, this non-therapist and normal mom got to work. 24 years later, Friends of Firefighters has provided over 1,000 firefighters and their families with mental health and wellness services at no cost to them!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks.
And we continue now with part two of our conversation
with Nancy Carbone, right after these brief messages from our
general sponsors.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So you know, the bunting in the bugle of the
bugler was interesting because.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
The mostly cheer up almost that he thought enough about that.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Guy John continued to amaze me at his ability to
project what the needs would be, as opposed to the
other houses that I did go to, they would say,
we need boots, we need socks, we need things for
the site.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
So how did you present yourself? Hi, my husband's a
art professor and I'm here to help the fireman. No,
I can't imagine that went over.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I didn't say that. That wouldn't even come naturally to me.
And so what I did say.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Why would he open up and tell you what he needed?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
To this day, both of us don't know why. It
just it worked it to this day. I don't think
he knew he was looking outside for help, and I
didn't know that I would be doing what I am now.
I just thought everybody wanted to help, right. I did say,
I don't have money, and if I cook the rest
of you, we're going to die, so right now. I
(01:30):
didn't offer that up yet. I said what do you need?
And I think that's the big thing is and that's
that's really been the cornerstone that Friends of Firefighters has
built on is ask them what they need. They may
not know and at this point you know this so
many years later, it's there's more clarity for me, of course,
but I'm not going to tell somebody what they need.
(01:51):
And so I asked him what he needed, and those
are the three things he said, Hell yes, So I
found the bunting? Was he see? And they had a
set of three for bunting for the entire firehouse prior
department rather and they lost three hundred and forty three men,
so you can imagine that you know they needed bunting.
I have to shout out to the pipes and drums.
(02:13):
They were amazing the fire department, Emerald Society pipes and drums.
They didn't miss a funeral and sometimes it was only
one or two piper out of arge r.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I talked to a guy who was a pipe guy
and he did almost two hundred funerals and he had
one day like out of two hundred one days, two
hundred days. That guy was blowing its bagpipes and he
admittedly said it had a devastating effect on psyche and
(02:46):
he needed help.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
So you're saying he had one day off. What a
slacker he took a day geese.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
I don't know. Maybe he had corns.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
They were extraordinary and they But what I'm.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Saying is those guys suffered. I mean, how much pain
and sorrow and watered eyes can you take part in
and look at before it affects you.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
And keep in mind that they were also going to
the pile in the pit, so they weren't just doing
the funerals. There was a day in New York where
I think we had five simultaneously going on and they
had to split up, you know, and they split up anyway,
you know, because there were just too many funerals and
there were only one hundred, which was always plenty, you know,
and they would usually show up as one hundred for
(03:29):
a fatal fire where there was a line of duty death.
But this was this was seeing them like super Superman.
You know, they really really were amazing. But back to
the beginning of it, the counseling part. I stick back
from and I think the reason why is I met
one or two counselors after nine to eleven that came
(03:50):
to the firehouse that I had. I disagreed with their approach.
One of them wanted to write a book and that
kind of made me sick.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
That's disgusting.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, so I was upset about that, and the other
one I thought had some wacky ideas. There was one
woman I met and I really liked her, and I
would have sat down with her, and that became my
later on that became during the interview. Is this somebody
I would want to was?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Would this New York gal sit down and hang out
and tell my things with this person?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I would never put it that way, but I mean,
I don't refer to myself as a New York gal.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
What do you prefer to yourself as what I refer.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
To myself as. I don't. I just I just know
bull I have a bush meeter, And if I sit
down with somebody who I think is full of and
a lot of counselors, I did not agree with their approach.
So they could be very good counselors in another area,
but I didn't think it would gel for the firefighters.
If they came in with all their degrees up and down,
their arms and a clipboard and ask them how they're feeling,
which I did see in a kitchen when the guys
(04:47):
were completely covered with ground zero and they're in a kitchen.
They got glass in their eyes. They're trying to get
And she came in and she didn't know enough. And
she's not terrible, she's probably a great counselor today, but
she into tears and left because they just said we're
having a prayer meeting right now, which was clearly not
the case. But they they didn't know how to get
(05:07):
her out of the kitchen. They're not going to share
something with a young girl just out of college, especially
what they're seeing. They're not going to hurt her psychologically
like that. So a lot of people jumped, and it
was all really good intention, except for the ones that
wanted to write books. They are on my list. But
the other people, you know, they meant well, They meant well,
they did, And so I left that till last and I.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
What'd you get the bugler? Oh?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
That was amazing. I was in Greenwood Cemetery at one
of the funerals and there was a bugler oh, bugler.
So I waited till he was done, and I actually
I kind of ambushed him behind a tree and I
wrote his name in a magic marker on my forearm
because I didn't have paper, so I wrote it on
my arm and I went straight over to the firehouse
at one eighteen two five and I just said, I
(05:56):
got it. I got it. And they used him. But
much later they didn't find the guys, and then they
had they found parts, and then they would have another
funeral for the guy that they found another part, and
that you know, there was one guy that had three.
And then finally the house that we just we can't
do this in addition to the three hundred and forty
three funerals there, you know, they would find another body part.
(06:18):
And it's cruesome. But the humor that is attached to
the fire department for survival reasons, it's not to be crass,
it's not to be disrespectful, and there is a line
you know that you don't cross. But the humor in
the firehouse keeps them I can't stay sane well like
half it's a big stretch. It keeps them bonded, right,
(06:40):
it's currency, right, humor is really important. It's it gets
them through the really bad times.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Okay, I gotta ask. I can't hear what you said,
and just gloss past it. These guys that we saw
on TV and we still see during the anniversary everybody
as an anniversary special and you see them crawling around
on the pile or in the pit, and I've seen
(07:08):
countless photos we all have, but they're not up close
and personal, so you just see a panoramic view of
the power of the pit and then working in it.
You just said parts, are you telling me these firefighters
are like, I guess somebody has to collect limbs and things. Yeah,
(07:33):
they had it that have been out there for months.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
They had a bucket brigade and they were collecting everything
they could, and then it went to the morgue and
they hoped to get identification and they had families meeting
them on the pier so that they could give the DNA.
It was a very gruesome and it wasn't months, it
was years. It was for years, and they finally moved
the morgue over to Staten Island, to Freshkill, where they
(07:58):
moved a lot of the debris, and then those firefighters
and police officers and other agencies sat and there's a
conveyor belt of debris and they had to go through it,
and yeah, they found body parts and private personal belongings
and things like that. So psychologically, I think fresh Kill
was a very It was a UB duty to have
(08:22):
to be there, to be there and finding parts and
finding people's personal effects.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Figure belt of crap for human body parts and personal
that's horrific.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
It's horrific, But I think it was their honor to
try to bring everybody home, and I mean everybody. I'm
not just talking about the firefighters. So there was a
respect there that it was but it was a hell
of a gig and a lot of those firefighters got
sick and dyed the ones.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
That means you might find three or four different parts
at different times that belong to the same body at once,
and the morgue was then having the match all this up.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yes, for the ones that had to go through, and
this includes the morticians, and I apologize, I can't remember
the medical examiner.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Fro I'm seeing folks, all those guys.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
They're getting sick too. It's not just firefighters, they're getting
sick too, civilians. A lot of civilians have died, and
I know of a woman. I'm close to her kids
because we sort of kind of took them in a
little bit when she passed away. She was on the
promenade and stayed there watching when the buildings came down.
So the New Yorkers are so affected by it. I
(09:36):
think that when jets go overhead, I still get little.
I don't like the sound of the F fifteens. I
don't like the sound, and I don't think I'm alone
with that. But the firefighters themselves, they were extraordinary. They
were just extraordinary, and they didn't quit. I mean, they
just I don't. I think that the last funeral for
the firefighter was Michael Ragusa out of one point thirty one.
(10:00):
I think he was one thirty one, not two seventy nine.
And they didn't have a body. They had some blood
that he had donated prior to nine to eleven. In
hopes all of them, just about all of them give
blood and then they will give platelets so they get
on the list. And they buried the vile of blood
in a full coffin. And that was I think either
(10:22):
three or five years out. It's a little bit of
a blurb, but it was a long time after nine
to eleven, a couple of years when they realized they
weren't going to find him. So right around August, our
numbers start to go up in phone calls because they
start showing the coming attractions of this this year's nine
to eleven coverage, and it's I can't imagine watching your
(10:46):
loved one die over and over and over again. I
just can't. And that's really what these families and firefighters
and police officers.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Are when they do the anniversary shows and stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, so our phone starts to ring in August, and
you know, it's pretty much quiet over the summer, but August,
and interestingly, right before Easter, our numbers start to spike.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
We'll be right back, okay, So before we get to
the phone calls, let's go to why you even get
phone calls? Because this cat under the beginning of the
(11:28):
Brooklyn Bridge.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
What was this, John Sarentino, Yeah, he said a mouthful, yes, bugles,
and what are the things? The people's bunting bunting, and
that's one thing, but the counselors.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah, that was almost prophetic.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
It absolutely was.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
So tell me, I know you didn't you dismissed the
young ones.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
But no, I didn't dismiss them. I felt for them.
They were put in impossible situations. They were, but you
still they were not appropriate. They were not inappropriate fit so.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
You and you're very highly trains psychological background. Yeah, I'm
a mom decided I want to do something better. Yeah,
tell me about it.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I had no idea. I had no idea this seed
of my pants.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
But you are passionate.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yes, I saw a need. Yes, So I I asked
a friend who owns a lot of property in Brooklyn
if she had an empty storefront. And this was in
February of o two, and she had an old plastic
flower shop that had almost as much dusted it as downtown.
(12:34):
And the firefighters came from the site to turn it
into a counseling center.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
The firefighters helped you do it.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah, they helped build it. So that to me said okay.
Then they they at the time, I think they just
thought it was crazy. But John was like, we got
to get the counseling out of the firehouse. People are coming,
we get a run. Guys can't be crying their eyes
out in the basement with a counselor. It's just we
don't want people in the house. It's we got to
start getting back to normal. And so I found.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
There's something else there too, something Neil's taught me.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
What's that.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Two things. One, these are guys guys, and there's a
little bit of a stigma, and even when you know
you need help, oftentimes you're unwilling to seek it, especially
when it's inside the fire department. Sure because you figure
world'll get around they might put a big scarlet letter
on your file. Not might they do? They don't now
(13:30):
apparently they did.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
It was quite it was quite a difficult time for
the fire Department and Counseling Services unit to go from
I think they had eleven or fourteen counselors to over
one hundred overnight. Tough, tough place to be. I don't
criticize or judge them at all.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
It's just it just was the culture. But the other
thing that I think is really important, something actually Alex said,
you know, Bill, don't forget, is that these guys, this
is what It's not only what they did for a living,
it's part of who they are. And if you're going
(14:07):
to counseling, you worried about are you going to fire me?
Are they going to reassign me. So between the cultural stigma,
especially in that environment, plus the fear of what that
scarlet letter on your file may do for your long
term employment and something that you love that is your life.
(14:29):
These guys knew they needed help, many of them, and
wanted help, but wouldn't seek it inside the department, which
made your flower shop convert outside of the apartment.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Less and less crazy as time went on. But in
beginning it was crazy, okay, and it's even something I
think that, yes, you hit the nail right there on
the head when you talked about the job, right They
wanted separation from the job if there was going to
be counseling, which I understood and still do to this day.
But what was more difficult is not being trusted by
(15:05):
your fellow firefighter because you have an anxiety attack, not
feeling comfortable going on the rig because you went on
the rig and everybody's dead and you were the chauffeur
and you don't want to drive anymore. So it was
like right there on the job. It was in the firehouse.
It was there so to have people come, Yeah, they
didn't want to be seen, for sure, But there were
a lot of aspects to it. And I've heard firefighters
(15:26):
in the very beginning and the job has learned a
lot of lessons and it was all really good intention.
But in the very beginning they were taking light duty guys,
of which there were some. Nobody wanted to do light duty.
They wanted to be at the site. But the light
duty ones would sometimes answer the phone at Counseling Services
unit in the very beginning because they were shorthanded, and
(15:47):
so then it would get back to the firehouse. Right
after the phone call. The guy would call the house
and tell them, you know who, call these nuts, and
it would get back to the firehouse. And that's part
of their culture. And I can't judge what was done today.
I would today, I would smack them, but back then, yeah,
that's bull. It's just bull. You don't do that. But
back then nothing had been written. There was no there
(16:09):
was no protocol, real absolutely none, And how could there be?
They just lost three hundred and forty three firefighters, How
could there be? And then the suicide started, So that
was the other thing, and that resonated with yes, yes,
and still are and that's still there are still suicide
day to this day, there are suicides from nine to eleven. Yeah,
(16:31):
I will say, yes, there are.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
How do you live with it for all this time
and then succumb to it? You would think time and
work would make it a little better over time.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I mean not if you have lost your family because
you didn't get help. And this is not putting it
on them. It's a really tough thing to ask a
first responder to sit down and be vulnerable. They're they're
not wired to be vulnerable. So if your spouse has
left and your children won't speak to you, and yeah,
(17:04):
twenty years goes by and you can't see your grandchildren
and all you do is drink or whatever, and sometimes
it seems to be and maybe they're dealing. Most likely
they're dealing with physical ailments as well. So yeah, that's
more O.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Their friends have died from nine to eleven related illnesses.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Countless friends have died. You know. I had a guy
say to me, the guy my left died, the guy
on my right is about to die any day. Now,
when's it my turn? And they and they go through
every day for years. I mean, that's a tremendous stressor
that I don't think any of us can really fathom
unless we were living that life. And it's a hard,
hard row. So again there's no judgment there. It's plus
(17:44):
my grandfather killed himself. So I'm like hyper sensitive to
how can we take that off the table as an option?
How do we give the firefighters that number that they'll
want to call? And that's where the peers come in.
But I'm jumping ahead, so so go ahead. You told
me you'd keep me on t A.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I'm trying.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
You're messing it up.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
I'm trying, and I'm kind of scared of you. So
so the flower shop.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Flower Shop. So what happened was I didn't I interviewed
two or three people, and as counselors, meaning you realers
who wanted to donate their time, I say limited, and
I'm thinking you don't pull the lid off and then say, sorry,
your time's up. I can't help you. Again. That's like,
I don't think that's healthy. I didn't know, but I
was right, you know, I just didn't feel right and.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
So' the BS meter.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah yeah, yeah, by the way, with you, it's like
dead zero. So that's good. Yeah, you're in, You're in. Yeah,
Well it's early in the day. So let's say where
so I partnered health I know how with Safe Horizon,
which was a counseling service that had already been established
(18:52):
I think twenty years prior for victims of crime in
New York City. And I had heard of them because
I was a victim of a crime in New York
City and I was beaten up. But I think that
was in nineteen seventy nine or eighty, so I had
heard of them and I wonder if they're still around,
and they were, and they were desperately trying to get
first responders in because they got a chunk of money
to do just that.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
You say things like that and then you don't even
let me. Were you mugged?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Oh yeah, but that was like a lifetime ago. I
wasn't mugged, No, I was just beaten up. There was
an EDP who just went off and I had beat it.
I'm sorry. There was an emotionally disturbed person that just
went off because I made eye contact with him and
he beat me up. So but that was like, wow, yeah,
a long time ago. The point is I was offered
(19:38):
counseling with Safe Horizon and after that, after that as
a victim, and I didn't take it. At the time
because I'm as thick as the firefighters. I didn't take it.
I didn't think I needed it. I did, I could
have used it. But anyway, I thought of them after
nine to eleven and I thought, you know, maybe this
is a fit. And they were so happy because they
(19:59):
needed to They needed to be able to counsel firefighters
as part of their that was restricted money that they accepted.
They had to now get the numbers and they found
that a lot of civilians came in, but not many
first responders across all agencies. I will give a shout
out the steel workers. I'm sure you heard about how
heroic they were. And we would have lost a lot
(20:20):
more than the ones we did on that day if
it wasn't for the steel workers. And they also suffer.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
So this was a crisis, and you talk about people
who really aren't trained for any of it, and they're
up there too.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Well, they're skipping over these things like pickup sticks. I mean,
they knew what they were doing, and.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
No, I mean trained for the human cornage, no underneath.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Not in the least now. And I think that having
spoken to many of them, they were very honored to
be there with fire department, in the police department, very honored.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I get that, Yeah, ohso lot, But you're still not
trained for that.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
They were not trained for the carnage, and the firefighters
were not trained for the dismantling of that kind of
a mess.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
So they leaned on each other with their skill set.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, and together they cleaned it up. We'll
be right back, getting back to the safe horizon. You know.
I went through I think five or six interviews with
(21:25):
their counselors and here I am, Who the hell am I?
And I'm just saying, no, no, no, no, no, no,
I'm not going to sit down with these people. And
my name is on this now and I'm not going
to let the wrong person come in. All good people
but maybe would have been good with children, or maybe
the elderly or maybe whatever. But they were not going
to no, because some of them would be judgmental. You
(21:49):
can't judge these guys, you just I mean, look, their
families can on you. But that if you want them
to talk, you have to shut the up and let
them talk, and they will, they'll talk. But if you
judge anybody, you know, we all shut down if we're judged.
But if you're judging a first responder because he's sharing
a story or her story. A lot of times they
throw things out there to test you to see if
(22:10):
you can take it, and some of it is really
raw stuff. If you're not able to take it and
understand that this is possibly a test and not judge
what they're saying, you don't belong there.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Well, they tell you mediocre, bad stories to see if
you can handle the ruins.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I've seen that happen.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
And sometimes they would type bullshit stories and sometimes they weren't.
Sometimes they went right into something horrible and then the
council would cry, you know, it's you know, that's not
going to help because their DNA is to help others, right,
So now they've allowed themselves to be vulnerable, which is
really hard. And now they've upset somebody, and and they
(22:52):
didn't mean to. If they mean to upset somebody, it's
something different. They'll claim up. And you really don't get
too many chances. So I'll give you a great example.
The kitchen tough house, really tough house, and they were
known for not letting outsiders in. And I'm an outsider
at this point, like totally. And the guy goes, what
are you here for?
Speaker 1 (23:10):
You?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
What are you one of those counselors? And I said, well,
actually no, And then one guy said, oh, she's she's
got counseling. That's outside of the job. He said, counseling
is bullsh and I started to I was on my
way out, and I turned around and go tell me
why it's bullshit. I really want to hear it. You know.
They told me I had to go to counseling in
Staten Island, and I drove around for almost a half
an hour and I couldn't find the room for them.
(23:33):
I thought that was great. It was great because he
never got in the room.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Do you know what I do for a real living football?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
No coaching, No, No, that's a side gig.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
What I do for a real living is own a
lumber company and we manufacture hard with lumber. Okay, big sALS.
Anybody in my business that has all ten.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Digits, Yeah, that's just not a chill lumper.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
All right, Big app forklifts fifty five acres metal buildings loud.
I mean all of it.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Very cool.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, what you just said is how pretty much everybody
in my employee communicates. So I get those guys. I
actually think they're hilarious, hilarious, and I loved dudes like
that because you feel like, well, if I get stuck
in a fox hole, I want to be stuck in
a hole.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
With that guy exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
And I love those guys. But it's the absolute truth. Yeah,
they would just as soon cut off a finger and
hurt you accidentally. They may tear your ass up if
they do it on purpose, but not everybody is weakly,
get what you're saying about these guys.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Not everybody is respected enough to have their torn up.
And if you understand where I'm going with this, if
they don't make fun of you, they don't like you,
right right, that's right. But what happened out of that
was the kitchen fell out, right, They just they just
fell out. Here's a senior guy, they all respect.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
He's a meathead.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
But that's came out. It's hilarious, but it's sort of
set the tone for you know, the guys were like, well,
you didn't even go, so how can you say it sucks?
And you know, they weren't saying we're going to go,
but they were saying.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
You know, if you're freaking embo, so how do you know,
if it's so funny you didn't even find the parking
lot jacket. Funny, maybe you don't need counseling, but you
certainly need GPS.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Jack apt nobody had GPS then, But you know what
I mean, I do know. Well, we all had our maps, right, yeah,
we had our paper maps. But what it was And
in his defense, because I had to save them a
little bit from himself, they didn't put signs up to
say where the counselor was. So I had to say,
you know, I heard that they don't have a proper signage,
you know, just I had to give him a bone.
You know, you can't just like leave the guy, but
(25:39):
actually you could. But it taught me a lot right then,
because the perception, their perception is reality, and it might
be wacky, but it's their perception. So when you want
to match them up with counselors, you have to make
sure you have counselors that aren't easily ruffled, that understand
that this is not your normal civilian. Geography matters, geography
(26:00):
and merit and signs matter too. But this is a tribe.
It's a tribe, and the different departments throughout the country,
throughout the world. They're tribes, but they all come under
this heading and they're a subset of our society. And
they are just crazy enough to come in and get
us out of the stupid things we get ourselves into
(26:21):
and the things that we don't deliberately. But disasters happen,
and they're the first ones there. So what's there for
them when they need help? On their terms? Right? So
that means not not banging them in the wallet. So
our services are free to the members and their families
and active and retired firefighters, making it possible to park.
(26:43):
They don't take generally speaking, they don't like mass transit.
They go to too many subway and incidents. They don't
want to go in the subway.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And the parking spots need to be wild because they're
driving trucks.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
They do drive trucks. But it doesn't that be wide
because they go on our sidewalk. I know, but no,
it isn't a joke. It's true. They do, most of them.
The guy that pulls up in Mercedes, please give me
a give me a break. But we are in an
old firehouse now. So we moved out of the flower.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Shop in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
That was awesome. The woman that owns the flower shop.
I heard through a source rumors that they had a firehouse,
the old firehouse in Red Hook that was one o
one quarters. That the tenant was going to skip out
on the next day. So I waited till he cleared town,
and then I called the landlord, who I've known for years,
(27:33):
and said, we want to move in. Oh, we have
a tenant there. No, you don't. He skipped out and
he owed a lot of back rent, but he left things.
So he had a metal fabrication shop and the whole
thing was machinery, and our guys had to make it
a firehouse again. This time over four hundred firefighters showed
up over a span of three years to turn it
(27:55):
back into a firehouse, which is what it looks like today.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
But it's actually Friends of Firefighters for counseling.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Well not just counseling so downstairs. So I designed it
so that when you walk in, well before we get there.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Got all right, because this is the reveal. When did
it go from looking for a bugler to an actual
organization called Friends of Firefighters at.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
That's a great question. No, the flower shop came weeks
after I got incorporated as Friends of Firefighters. What happened
was my daughter is hearing a pairent and she was
in a school that is a very expensive private school
because she was on scholarship. That's not here nor there.
But I always feel bits that's cool anyway, she'll listen
(28:43):
to it. Yeah, well with her hearing AIGs, yes she will.
She'll listen to it. But where are we y pack her? Oh?
Because there were wealthy families there and they were very
generous and they wanted to help. So we decided to
form a group that would help the firefighters. And I
was the contact to the houses. And there was nurse
in there and she had a friend who wanted to
take over the whole thing. She was a counselor, and
(29:05):
we didn't agree because I thought this woman was a
little batty. To be honest, the nurse was lovely, she
was really lovely. But this other woman had a degree
and I didn't in counseling. So she hedged her bets
and said, I'm going to go with the moment the degree,
no hard feelings. I really don't feel bad. And they
took that organization. But once I removed myself because I
didn't like the way she was moving forward. It was
(29:26):
not going to work for the firefighters. The whole thing
fell apart for them. And I went on with a
couple of the like the woman that owned the property
and another woman whose husband was Silicon Valley guy, and
they helped me to get incorporated and then start this thing.
And she came up with the name Friends of Firefighters,
(29:47):
and the first time I heard I said, oh, for
got say that. I hate that name. That's so stupid.
The firefighters are not going to go to Friends of Firefighters.
It sounds like, you know, and we're women, and we're like, no,
my wife is going to say, yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
It's cool, you got Arnie music in the dumb dumb dumb.
But I couldn't come up with anything else. And then
the lawyer needed a name. By the morning, I'm gonna
choose this name. So I said, can we do fof
and I'll tell you later when we're not being taken
to what I started to call out.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I can only imagine.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I can't say, but I said, screw it, screw it,
I'll do it. And I actually believe that some firefighters
didn't come because of the name. But at this point,
you know, Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
So then you move to this thing leaves metal fabrication.
Fourner firefighters donate their time to put turn it back
into a firehouse.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yes, but that was eight years after I started the organization.
I started in this flower shop and it got too
small real fast. It just got small. So it had
a small counseling room and a little kitchen in the
back and a waiting room in the front, and it
just wasn't working. Whoever was there would see the other
one leave and it just wasn't working.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
So when I offer, which lends to the same stigma
as to why they're not going to the fire department
help in the.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
First part of it, Yeah, yeah, for sure. So when
we did get the new place, which is a firehouse
it was built in eighteen seventy four, I think, really, yeah,
it's pretty awesome. It's pretty awesome. So the guys came
and they did the work, and I learned more about
construction than I ever wanted, and I could have used you.
Then we were getting little grants here and there, but
the American Red Cross ended up giving us like a
(31:20):
four four to five year grand of nine to eleven money,
and that really helped launch it. That's when I went
to school and I learned about nonprofit management and all
of that.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
So how old were you when you went back to school?
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Forty five?
Speaker 1 (31:35):
See that's awesome. Yeah, that are forty five. This meant
enough to you that you went back to school.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yeah, well to me, it wasn't a sacrifice. It was
really it was again sacrifice was so lucky. Yeah, it
was cool.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I get that's not a sacrifice, and I get that's
like part of the deal. But yeah, it speaks to
your commitment to it all.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I never thought of it that way, but okay, that
does okay, And.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Local Memphis tie in who also helped was Robin Hood Foundation.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
I was just about to say, I was just about
to see go get so before Robin Hood Foundation was
was the first organization, the very first was the German
American Solidarity Foundation.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
The German American Solidarity Foundation. Everybody's heard of that.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
They were actually very sweet, but I had no clue,
Like this is when everybody the money was just like
showering down on New York and I was really more
interested in building the trust because that was to be
more important at the time. By the time I built
the trust, the money was pretty much gone. But one
of the widows, Marion Fontana, who's a friend of mine,
Her husband Dave was killed on that day that was
(32:46):
their anniversary, nine to eleven. She recommended us to the
Robin Hood Foundation, and when that grant went away, they
recommended us to the American Red.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Cross Jones Robin Hood Foundation. Sky was, haarted, you know
where it's from.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Memphis right here, you see, you led me into that.
I'm not going to say mackwn Island. Oh right, cool,
that's cool.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
All right. So you make the firehouse.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
The firefighters built the firehouse back into a firehouse, and
we did this thing where when you walk in, I
wanted them to be able to go straight upstairs. So
the guys in the back with the doors closing, we
had we we did things. So we changed it so
that the doors closed and there was a kitchen downstairs,
and if they went upstairs, the guys with the doors
closed would never see who was coming in and out.
(33:37):
And so also what I do is stagger the room.
So one room was counseling, one room was acupunctured, the
other one was biofeedback. So nobody knew who was where when.
But they started telling each other and now like they'll
come in and they go, yeah, I'm here to see
my therapist. And it's a world away from what it was.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
What do you mean come.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
In or is there like a hangout area for downstairs?
Speaker 2 (34:01):
There are two big tables which and there's a kitchen.
So we have a breakfast every month the second Wednesday
of every month, and we used to and we'll get
back to it. The last Wednesday of every month in
the evening we'd have something called kitchen Talk and we
would get at the request of a Chief of department,
Ed Kilduff, he asked me to do something to bring
(34:24):
the young new firefighters because a lot of the nine
to eleven firefighters were retiring in huge numbers, and then
bring them into the culture a little more by having
the older ones give presentations and seminars and whatnot. So
that's what we did, and we had giants and Vigiano came.
He lost his two sons, one police officer, one firefighter.
Vinnie Dunn still comes in. Vinie's now working on his
(34:46):
thirteenth book, I think now about firefighting. So these greats
would come in and show the young, younger firefighters and
what was really wonderful is when we'd have people come
in and other people in the audience were at that job,
and they would tell different perspective about it, so there
was engagement.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
We'll be right back. I got a question, just a
reality check, and I'm grasping here, so this may be
a terrible question. If it is, we can edit it
(35:27):
out up.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Oh, I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Go Well, I've coached, I've run my business everything, but
I've coached in the city school system for thirty three
years and the way I coach is much different than most.
I have a different approach okay to the way I
believe kids should be nurtured. That accountable coach taught all
(35:48):
of that, and oftentimes the bureaucracy of a government run
organization doesn't like people like me at first at least.
And I'm just curious. You're setting up a council center
for city employees outside of the counseling center provided for
(36:12):
city employees, because you thought the counseling center provided for
city employees is quote bullsh I just wonder how you read.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
That's fascinating that that's what you got from me. I
just wanted to totally, no, totally no. I did not
think they were bullshit at all.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
I don't know that their approach, I said approach was being.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
No, no, no, they're approaching no. I thought it was clear,
So I'll be even more clear. They had fourteen councilors
on stage prior to nine to eleven. They had to
hire over one hundred. They lost three hundred and forty three.
They had to send them out to the firehouses. It
was unprecedented. There is no criticism as to how they
(36:54):
did it. Okay, this is what I did. There was
no judgment there at all.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
There really wasn't. The fire none was fine with it.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
I wasn't part of that. You know. I'm not there
to say, oh, this person could do a better job
or that unless they wanted to work for us, and
you know that was different. But they were CSU. You know,
for me, Counseling Services Unit was an option for some
of the firefighters, and it wasn't for others. So rather
than have anybody fall through the cracks, let them have
(37:22):
another option that doesn't cost them money.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
I candidly think that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
I just I guess so you're saying I had balls
to say that the job had their They're set up
already and who a might have come in? I like
this question now, so who might have come in and
do this? Yes, I didn't ask for permission. I just
followed what the firefighters were asking for.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
See, that's what I found interesting and candidly. You know,
people who think out of the box and don't say, well,
this is the way things are done or whatever are
often ones that found all kinds of cool solutions, right,
But oftentimes those type people also scare the folks that
like to play within the lines, and they will try
(38:02):
to shut them out. And I just wondered if you
had any problems with that. But oh, I guess it
does speak to the fact that New York as a
whole was bombed. Everybody and it felt it, and so
any positive momentum probably people convalesced around that maybe you
wouldn't get and other circumstances.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I guess I think that, and that's also true. So
but the then head of CSU did not lie. It
made it very clear he did not want us me
to have an organization that was helping me. No, it
was very clear, and I got a lot of pushback
over the years, and there were a lot of rumors
out there. No, you're not far off. I love your question.
(38:45):
I think it's great. I just take issue with you
thinking that I thought that they weren't doing enough, because
that's not it. Yeah, but yeah, no, that wasn't a
judgment on my part. It was just you know, I
know some guys are not going for help. Where will
they go? They trusted me over time, and then the
firehouse helped a lot because when they came to work
(39:05):
on it and everything, that said a lot that they
wanted to come and work on it. That told me
that they saw that there was a need because nobody charged.
I mean, they came and did it.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
The fact that you say firemen now come in and
say I'm going to see my therapist.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
You talk about it twenty four years later, Well I
get it.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
What a ship alight? So when did you open? When
did the firehouse become the place?
Speaker 2 (39:26):
After Sandy? Twenty twelve thirteen? After Sandy, because what happened
with Sandy teen years ago, but Sandy took out so
many houses and so many firefighters. So it was over
seven hundred active firefighters and over twelve hundred retirees either
lost their houses entirely or had such significant damage they
had to move out, and my team and I were
on boots on the ground. So our firehouse took on
(39:49):
four feet of water. So we lost the kitchen we
had just put in, and two cars. I'm a car buff.
I like to work on cars, and I had two cars. Luckily,
howcome that unsurprised me at all. Luckily they were two
newer cars, because I now have four four two on
the floor and I have a fifty seven Chevy. They
(40:10):
if I hear this rain coming, they're they're out right there.
There's what I don't own. The four I don't own that.
It's a fire fighter. Sister owns that and she doesn't
know how to drive it. So I have it right now.
I can't even and she doesn't want to learn because
it scares her. You know, it's got her shifter and everything.
It is a little scared. It's a power convertible. Really.
(40:31):
I'll show you pictures later, but anyway, for now, we
were flooded, and so what we did was I was
we hit the ground running. We had clipboards. We went out.
Those are clipboards that are okay. We went out into
the affected area, mostly in the rockaways. Staten Island had
thirty feet squalls, different areas that were Garrettson Beach. And
(40:52):
because of my connection with Steve Buscemi, he was then
doing Boardwalk Empire and working with HBO. HBO gave us
some trailers that we could work out of, and so Sandy,
we were so present and we were going to people's
homes and Steve Buscemi was in my car and we
were going to homes and Steve would get out and
he'd help us, like rip down walls and pump. So
(41:16):
our name became, like you need something called Friends of
Firefighters and that built trust. It was amazing and everybody
came together, and the firefighters there's one in particular who
just astounded me. He is He's a wonderful guy and
he was helping people for almost three weeks before we
all found out that his house was in terrible shape,
(41:38):
but he wasn't doing anything there. He was helping his
family and he moved them upstairs. But we found out
about it and then Liam Flaherty from Rescue two went
over and that's Bobby for Manie, He's the one that
was out there helping everybody else and that's who they are.
So it makes my job so much easier because when
there's an opportunity to help, and no, he and Liam
both didn't accept help, But when there's an opportunity to help,
(42:01):
I'm going to help.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
You speak with reverence. When you speak about firefighters, your
eyes change.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Oh that's weird. I mean, that's just the weird thing.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
You brighten up.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
I brighten up.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
You really do, And not that you're not bright, but
you you can just tell the reverence you hold these
people in the way that they will go completely off
the hook to help someone else and then won't even
get out of the street for themselves. Sometimes.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yeah, absolutely. Did you ever see a firefighter run in
when everybody's running out? That's like, that's a little crazy, right.
But when they say they need help, I think it's
incumbent upon all of us to make sure they have
it in a way that's comfortable for them.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
But I think that reverence and empathy for them is
why they come to you. I think they feel that.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Some of them don't know me, some of them just
know their counselor they just know we have a good reputation.
Maybe originally I'm going to catch heat for that when
I get home. Maybe maybe originally you know, there was
a little bit of that, but really I think, Sandy is.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
You're going to catch it for that when you get home.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
I don't care.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Oh I don't either. I'm just glad you know it
can help.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Yeah, thank you, thank you, because I don't get enough.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
What happened though, is after our place was deconned, I
went out to Ikea, which was in Red Hook, and
I bought fourteen bunk beds because I knew they were
going to come. That movie by the Field of Dreams,
I knew they were going to come, and they did.
So they came from all over the place, and New
Orleans sent thirty six firefighters and we did shifts. Oh
(43:36):
my gosh, Michigan were the first ones to pull up.
They had an RV. We didn't have power till December,
so we kind of froze our eggs off. But they
came and then they would go out at five in
the morning, and they work all day. New Orleans is
a tough group. Boy. They don't turn it off. They
work all day, drink all night, work all day, six
(43:56):
days running. You guys are going to die. And our
guys couldn't even keep up with them. And our guys
are pretty tough, but they couldn't keep up with New Orleans.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
So curious twelve years later this girl who hung behind woman,
thank you girl anymore behind a tree?
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Well that was just to ambush somebody that was not
like I wasn't shy. I needed the timing to be
right before I ambushed it.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
But you did it.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I did it, well, yeah I did.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Now has a degree.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
In what nonprofit management?
Speaker 1 (44:36):
It's nonprofit management? And how many how many therapists or.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Party we actually need more? We were up to fourteen
and now we're down to nine, so I used to
hire more. Unbelieved if I had twenty therapists right now,
they would.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
All have full How many firefighters have you served?
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Firefighters active, retired in their families, well over one thousand,
over one thousand and their families and their families. Oh yeah,
you have to include families. You have to. You know,
when you're helping somebody, and these families, you know, they
get beaten up by the schedule. The schedule is brutal,
and you know the parent who was the first responder
can't be at every game, sometimes can't be at a graduation.
(45:16):
Although they help each other and they cover each other's shifts.
It's not always it's not always possible. So there's a
you know, they get a great vacation, but otherwise they're
like back to back working crazy hours.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
But that's the thing is honestly, the truth is you
showed up and said what can I get you? And
it was some purple and black ribbon of bugler and
look for some counselors for our guys. And you became
what they looked for.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Okay, but if your.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Organization became what they needed the most.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
The organization became what they dictated it should over time.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Well, now that's interesting because you listen to what they
needed rather than what people told.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Right, And the approach is the same, but the needs change, right,
So there are different things, a whole different world from
nine to eleven to Sandy to COVID. Every single time
they needed different things different ways. But by the time
COVID hit, we were fairly established and we had gone
(46:19):
to online for guys that couldn't make it in. We
went to online counseling the year before. So when COVID hit,
we were ready to run.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
And you're ready for the next one. Whatever it is
got for me, Oh cheez, well, there will be a
next one.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
There will be, and we are ready to help the
firefighters in any way that they say they need.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
If someone said friends of Firefighters is, how would you
complete that sentence? Man?
Speaker 2 (46:51):
You didn't give them any cliff notes before I came in,
or I'm sorry to sheet.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
I just I thought you'd be able to answer, because
you just are never at a loss for words.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
I know. So let me gather mine and I'll spit
it right back out edible.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
This is a show fire friends of Firefighters. I want
to know from you. You created it. Friends of Firefighters is.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
I think that we could be considered to be not
the catcher and the rye, but we're maybe we want
to get the firefighters that are not comfortable. So that's
not telling you who we are. I think what we
are is what the firefighters envisioned and molded over the
(47:40):
years to the point where we're an extension of We
started out really really simple, bunting. It's you know, bugler
bugles and counseling was a tough one. I thought it
would last a year or two count Friends of Firefighters
(48:00):
is a highly respected organization today, and I want to
see it national. I want to see it go national,
because there are fire departments. You know, we were in
Biloxi and we set up a program down there, and
there are so many departments throughout the country that have
no help. They have no counseling services unit. Sometimes they
don't have a full department, they have a volley group.
(48:21):
Then they do the best they can. I think when
people put their lives on the line, they deserve to
have a place to go that speaks their language, that
understands them and doesn't profit off of it. So it
just comes down to trust.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
Does anybody ever pay anything for counseling and Friends of bark.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Friers No, And that kind of shoots me in the
foot because I'm always looking to raise money and that's
been a really tough thing. I was in the trenches
while people were bringing in the money that they absolutely used.
And there are some other organizations that are excellent and
they have like a hundred people on their development team
raising money. That's not us yet. I hope it will
(49:02):
be someday. But my goal right now is not just
to keep the doors open, but right now, my short
term is keep the doors open. Long term, make this
a national organization. You know, maybe one in every state,
you know, but which would be really awesome, But right now,
I want to keep the doors open. We have a
wait list. We were up to seventy seven and I
(49:22):
thank god just heard what's down to thirty four. That's
seventy seven may days. As far as I'm concerned, if
a firefighter's calling for help, it's already going to.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Say they really. I was going to say it was
an SOS second thing, yeah, but that's secondly seven.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Well, we'll take the ones that are like that need
to be seen. And our counselors have been amazing and
stepping up and going over their limit to accommodate them.
And we check in with those who haven't been seen
to make sure that they're okay. You know that, but
they are. Some of them say no, I'll go to CSU, Great,
no problem, But CSU doesn't take retiaries or they might
take me diaries now, but they don't take families. And
(49:56):
so we have a children's program, it's called the Bravest Children.
We have a peer program which we've expanded so in
order to meet the need, and that that's been really helpful.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
So your kid went off to some real high fallut
in school.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
She did in first grade, high falutin high Falutin's that's impressive.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
And I know you're proud of her.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
I am proud of her. How did you know that?
How did you know? I wasn't like embarrassing my daughter?
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Oh, I just know.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
I listen, I have another one too.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
It's like you, what's the other daughter? Day? Now?
Speaker 2 (50:27):
My son? I had another child. My son's a musician.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Yep, not far from the tree, then, not far. I
just wondered if they are.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
They impacted by all of this. They're proud of me,
I should be well. I appreciate that. You know, it
took a lot out of the family too, you know,
all of it does. Yeah, I mean I was in
I was in firehouses at two in the morning, helping
them write eulogies. So the early years were particularly I
get it.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
I do, I seriously do get it. And and it
does have to have buy in from people in your
sphere to help you to be successful at what your
endeavors are. But like I said at the beginning, we'd
love to talk to tell stories of where passion, it's
opportunity and amazing things happen where normal folks who aren't
(51:16):
rich or part of some big five O one C
three or tapped on the shoulder from a politician. Simply
use that passion see an aery need fill it and
change people's lives. And holy crap, Nancy, that's exactly what
your story is.
Speaker 2 (51:33):
We are five to one C three.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
Now you are, but you created it.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, No that was February of O two.
Are you going to ask me about the Ireland bike Ride?
Speaker 1 (51:44):
I was going to say one thing first, go ahead,
how do people find out more about you? And is
there a website or whatever?
Speaker 2 (51:50):
We forget me, but the organization is Friendsifirefighters dot org.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
Yeah. Can people reach out to you if they're interested
in supporting you or be mimicking your thing in their neighborhoods.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Yeah, when they talk about mimicking things or having like
a scaling, Yeah, but I would be real interested in
how they go about it, you know, especially if they
want to use our name. Well they can't use our name,
but if we're going to grow like that, that would
be great. I love partnering with They found Nancy. They
called the office or Nancy at Friends of Firefighters dot
(52:26):
orger Nancy Friends Firefighters, Laurel yes, it's not one guy
friends of the fireman. Oh my god, so at some
point apparently not at some point.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
And now we're going to do it. Then I'm supposed
to ask you about a bicycle in Ireland.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
Oh my god, that's just as bad as one fireman.
It's not one bicycle in Ireland.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
One fire about friends of the Fireman.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
We have a board member who I love dearly, and
he came on right when we started. Danny Prince. Danny
Prince is the Prince of Princess. He's an awesome guy.
He was Coastguard Fire Department for over forty years. He
calls it to this day the friend of the Fireman.
Speaker 1 (53:08):
He just calls it that on the board. That's okay,
I say stuff all the time. That absolutely drops Alex.
Absolutely Baddie had to be perfectly candid. I say it
wrong on purpose.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
Now I don't think Danny says it wrong on purpose. Yeah.
No's that's what it is. And he calls our place.
He doesn't call it the firehouse. He calls it the store.
We don't sell stuff, but Danny is Danny, and and
so you know, I accept that, and I'm glad he's on.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
Board I'm not surprising at all. You know, bicycle ride or.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
Something's a bicycle ride. Yes. So last year, two years ago,
a chief came in Danny Sheridan, and Danny is the
pain in maya that Alex is in yours got it,
but he gets things done like Alex does. He picked up,
he was on time and everything.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
That's why you put up with the pin in there.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
Danny had an idea that he had been batting around
with his best friend thirty years ago, that they were
going to ride for some charity, starting in Dublin going
down to the Lower They didn't even know at the time,
but they wanted to ride around Ireland and raise money.
His friend was killed on nine to eleven. He came
to us a year and a half ago and said,
I'd like to do this and you'd be the charity.
(54:19):
So he and my daughter worked together on it and
I was in the support vehicle. But they rode every
day from Dublin to Kinsale. I think it was three
days of riding. One of the days, the last day,
was one hundred miles that they rode. And these are
Irish roads, single lane, brutal, brutal, and this year gorgeous,
(54:40):
but this year I've been told by the Irish that
it's even more beautiful. We're going from Newcastle West down
to Kinsale and in Kinsale they have a nine to
eleven garden where they've planted three hundred and forty three
trees for firefighters and the equal amounts for port authority
and police officers to honor. So we're going to land
there on nine to eleven and then next year over
(55:02):
one hundred firefighters from Ireland are coming into us. We're
going to meet in Boston where we're picking up a
ton of Boston firefighters. I heard Chicago, and I know Toronto.
We're joining US firefighters and we're going to ride down
from Boston to ground zero.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (55:17):
Yeah, pretty cool? Right?
Speaker 1 (55:19):
How does that raise money?
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Well, we need sponsors and it's funny you should say
you have a big lumber company. I'm going to hit
everybody up for sponsorships because they get to see it.
We're going to have drones and you know, have what
we Last year was a run through like what can
we do and what are we missing? And this year,
you know, we're ready. We're really ready.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
Certainly to goodness, Alex. That's got to get some press
of some sort and that would encourage big sponsors that
could actually move the needle. You got a one hundred
Irish ironment coming up.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
Pretty cool, although we'll left our heads off, I know
that's a given, and maybe drink a little bit, but
but just a little beer here and there. Yeah, but yes,
just so we right before actually we had closed registration
last year. There was a firefighter last year who almost
died and it almost was a fatal fire and we
didn't think he was going to make it at first.
(56:10):
It was that bad a flashover. He was very badly burned,
and we closed our registration for the ride. In about
a week and a half before the ride, we get
a call from this guy. He wants to go on
the trip, and I was stunned, and I just thought, yes, absolutely,
but I don't know how it's going to be for him.
I know that the fire was very impactful in his
(56:31):
life and his family's life, and he had decided you
wanted to go. He went. It was life changing and
now he speaks about that and he's on this ride too.
He's actually on the committee this year. So cool, so cool.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
What's tons of stuff with us on your website.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so there it is there,
it is.
Speaker 1 (56:50):
So friends are Fireman Jesus, Yeah, you didn't deliver the line.
Your response? What was your response to Danny Fritz?
Speaker 2 (56:59):
Oh, that's a big budget for one guy, right, the
Friends of the Fireman?
Speaker 1 (57:07):
Yeah? Sorry, yeah, Nacy Carbone all the way from New
York City to Memphis to tell us about the Friends
of Fireman. I'm kidding the Friends of Firefighters.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
Laurl please make sure you say that is col Peace.
Speaker 1 (57:20):
You can look it up on our website. And more importantly,
I hope you've enjoyed the story, because, my friend, you
are exactly what we look for when we talk about
an army of normal folks. And I just I can't
thank you enough for telling your story. I can't thank
you enough for opening with although a little bit gut wrenching,
(57:41):
I think important perspective for people to understand why folks
might be so moved to do work that they've done
for so long in New York. And the truth is
nine to eleven has not quit killing, and there's still
work today. Soldiers like you that carry on that work
(58:02):
change lives. And so it's been awesome to meet you
and you're same inspiring.
Speaker 2 (58:07):
I don't want to step on your last word, but
I'm going to thank you for bringing me here and
for recognizing the work that we do. But it's a
little selfish what I do because I get a lot
out of helping people, so I feel a little bit
uncomfortable when you make it. So thanks for calling me normal.
If my mom we're alive, you get a chuckle out
of that. This has been nothing short of an honor
(58:29):
all these years, and to be accepted by them by
and large has been amazing. I will say Counseling Services
Unit and Friends of Firefighters are on very friendly terms now.
We see each other's strengths and while we don't share information,
we help each other where we can.
Speaker 1 (58:45):
It's fantastic. And I will tell you, almost to a person,
everybody that we interview, and we do one of these
a week, and we have for over two years now,
so we're talking seven hundred people so far, almost to
a person, all say they get more out of it
than they put into it. And they are also hide
away from the light because of their humility. And I
(59:10):
just got to tell you something I've learned from the
collection of people I've talked to that humility is one
of the reasons you've been so successful. So carry on
and well done, Nancy, and thanks for chastening with us.
Speaker 2 (59:21):
Oh, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
I'm really honored to be here, and thank you for
joining us this week. If Nancy Carbone has inspired you
in general, or better yet, to take action by donating
to friends of firefighters, which she desperately needs, or wanting
to do something like it in your community which she
would love to scale, or sharing the first responders that
(59:46):
you know, or something else entirely, would you please let
me know I want to hear about it. You can
write me anytime at Bill at normal folks dot us
and I will respond. And because of the lack of emails,
recently starting to have a little bit of an inferiority complex,
So please reach out and say hi. If you enjoyed
this episode, share it with friends that on social subscribe
(01:00:08):
to the podcast, rate and review it. Join the army
at normal folks dot us, consider becoming a premium member
there any and all of these things that will help
us grow an army at normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.
Until next time, do what you can
Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks.
And we continue now with part two of our conversation
with Nancy Carbone, right after these brief messages from our
general sponsors.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So you know, the bunting in the bugle of the
bugler was interesting because.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
The mostly cheer up almost that he thought enough about that.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Guy John continued to amaze me at his ability to
project what the needs would be, as opposed to the
other houses that I did go to, they would say,
we need boots, we need socks, we need things for
the site.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
So how did you present yourself? Hi, my husband's a
art professor and I'm here to help the fireman. No,
I can't imagine that went over.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I didn't say that. That wouldn't even come naturally to me.
And so what I did say.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Why would he open up and tell you what he needed?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
To this day, both of us don't know why. It
just it worked it to this day. I don't think
he knew he was looking outside for help, and I
didn't know that I would be doing what I am now.
I just thought everybody wanted to help, right. I did say,
I don't have money, and if I cook the rest
of you, we're going to die, so right now. I
(01:30):
didn't offer that up yet. I said what do you need?
And I think that's the big thing is and that's
that's really been the cornerstone that Friends of Firefighters has
built on is ask them what they need. They may
not know and at this point you know this so
many years later, it's there's more clarity for me, of course,
but I'm not going to tell somebody what they need.
(01:51):
And so I asked him what he needed, and those
are the three things he said, Hell yes, So I
found the bunting? Was he see? And they had a
set of three for bunting for the entire firehouse prior
department rather and they lost three hundred and forty three men,
so you can imagine that you know they needed bunting.
I have to shout out to the pipes and drums.
(02:13):
They were amazing the fire department, Emerald Society pipes and drums.
They didn't miss a funeral and sometimes it was only
one or two piper out of arge r.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I talked to a guy who was a pipe guy
and he did almost two hundred funerals and he had
one day like out of two hundred one days, two
hundred days. That guy was blowing its bagpipes and he
admittedly said it had a devastating effect on psyche and
(02:46):
he needed help.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
So you're saying he had one day off. What a
slacker he took a day geese.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
I don't know. Maybe he had corns.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
They were extraordinary and they But what I'm.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Saying is those guys suffered. I mean, how much pain
and sorrow and watered eyes can you take part in
and look at before it affects you.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
And keep in mind that they were also going to
the pile in the pit, so they weren't just doing
the funerals. There was a day in New York where
I think we had five simultaneously going on and they
had to split up, you know, and they split up anyway,
you know, because there were just too many funerals and
there were only one hundred, which was always plenty, you know,
and they would usually show up as one hundred for
(03:29):
a fatal fire where there was a line of duty death.
But this was this was seeing them like super Superman.
You know, they really really were amazing. But back to
the beginning of it, the counseling part. I stick back
from and I think the reason why is I met
one or two counselors after nine to eleven that came
(03:50):
to the firehouse that I had. I disagreed with their approach.
One of them wanted to write a book and that
kind of made me sick.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
That's disgusting.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, so I was upset about that, and the other
one I thought had some wacky ideas. There was one
woman I met and I really liked her, and I
would have sat down with her, and that became my
later on that became during the interview. Is this somebody
I would want to was?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Would this New York gal sit down and hang out
and tell my things with this person?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I would never put it that way, but I mean,
I don't refer to myself as a New York gal.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
What do you prefer to yourself as what I refer.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
To myself as. I don't. I just I just know
bull I have a bush meeter, And if I sit
down with somebody who I think is full of and
a lot of counselors, I did not agree with their approach.
So they could be very good counselors in another area,
but I didn't think it would gel for the firefighters.
If they came in with all their degrees up and down,
their arms and a clipboard and ask them how they're feeling,
which I did see in a kitchen when the guys
(04:47):
were completely covered with ground zero and they're in a kitchen.
They got glass in their eyes. They're trying to get
And she came in and she didn't know enough. And
she's not terrible, she's probably a great counselor today, but
she into tears and left because they just said we're
having a prayer meeting right now, which was clearly not
the case. But they they didn't know how to get
(05:07):
her out of the kitchen. They're not going to share
something with a young girl just out of college, especially
what they're seeing. They're not going to hurt her psychologically
like that. So a lot of people jumped, and it
was all really good intention, except for the ones that
wanted to write books. They are on my list. But
the other people, you know, they meant well, They meant well,
they did, And so I left that till last and I.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
What'd you get the bugler? Oh?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
That was amazing. I was in Greenwood Cemetery at one
of the funerals and there was a bugler oh, bugler.
So I waited till he was done, and I actually
I kind of ambushed him behind a tree and I
wrote his name in a magic marker on my forearm
because I didn't have paper, so I wrote it on
my arm and I went straight over to the firehouse
at one eighteen two five and I just said, I
(05:56):
got it. I got it. And they used him. But
much later they didn't find the guys, and then they
had they found parts, and then they would have another
funeral for the guy that they found another part, and
that you know, there was one guy that had three.
And then finally the house that we just we can't
do this in addition to the three hundred and forty
three funerals there, you know, they would find another body part.
(06:18):
And it's cruesome. But the humor that is attached to
the fire department for survival reasons, it's not to be crass,
it's not to be disrespectful, and there is a line
you know that you don't cross. But the humor in
the firehouse keeps them I can't stay sane well like
half it's a big stretch. It keeps them bonded, right,
(06:40):
it's currency, right, humor is really important. It's it gets
them through the really bad times.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Okay, I gotta ask. I can't hear what you said,
and just gloss past it. These guys that we saw
on TV and we still see during the anniversary everybody
as an anniversary special and you see them crawling around
on the pile or in the pit, and I've seen
(07:08):
countless photos we all have, but they're not up close
and personal, so you just see a panoramic view of
the power of the pit and then working in it.
You just said parts, are you telling me these firefighters
are like, I guess somebody has to collect limbs and things. Yeah,
(07:33):
they had it that have been out there for months.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
They had a bucket brigade and they were collecting everything
they could, and then it went to the morgue and
they hoped to get identification and they had families meeting
them on the pier so that they could give the DNA.
It was a very gruesome and it wasn't months, it
was years. It was for years, and they finally moved
the morgue over to Staten Island, to Freshkill, where they
(07:58):
moved a lot of the debris, and then those firefighters
and police officers and other agencies sat and there's a
conveyor belt of debris and they had to go through it,
and yeah, they found body parts and private personal belongings
and things like that. So psychologically, I think fresh Kill
was a very It was a UB duty to have
(08:22):
to be there, to be there and finding parts and
finding people's personal effects.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Figure belt of crap for human body parts and personal
that's horrific.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
It's horrific, But I think it was their honor to
try to bring everybody home, and I mean everybody. I'm
not just talking about the firefighters. So there was a
respect there that it was but it was a hell
of a gig and a lot of those firefighters got
sick and dyed the ones.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
That means you might find three or four different parts
at different times that belong to the same body at once,
and the morgue was then having the match all this up.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yes, for the ones that had to go through, and
this includes the morticians, and I apologize, I can't remember
the medical examiner.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Fro I'm seeing folks, all those guys.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
They're getting sick too. It's not just firefighters, they're getting
sick too, civilians. A lot of civilians have died, and
I know of a woman. I'm close to her kids
because we sort of kind of took them in a
little bit when she passed away. She was on the
promenade and stayed there watching when the buildings came down.
So the New Yorkers are so affected by it. I
(09:36):
think that when jets go overhead, I still get little.
I don't like the sound of the F fifteens. I
don't like the sound, and I don't think I'm alone
with that. But the firefighters themselves, they were extraordinary. They
were just extraordinary, and they didn't quit. I mean, they
just I don't. I think that the last funeral for
the firefighter was Michael Ragusa out of one point thirty one.
(10:00):
I think he was one thirty one, not two seventy nine.
And they didn't have a body. They had some blood
that he had donated prior to nine to eleven. In
hopes all of them, just about all of them give
blood and then they will give platelets so they get
on the list. And they buried the vile of blood
in a full coffin. And that was I think either
(10:22):
three or five years out. It's a little bit of
a blurb, but it was a long time after nine
to eleven, a couple of years when they realized they
weren't going to find him. So right around August, our
numbers start to go up in phone calls because they
start showing the coming attractions of this this year's nine
to eleven coverage, and it's I can't imagine watching your
(10:46):
loved one die over and over and over again. I
just can't. And that's really what these families and firefighters
and police officers.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Are when they do the anniversary shows and stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, so our phone starts to ring in August, and
you know, it's pretty much quiet over the summer, but August,
and interestingly, right before Easter, our numbers start to spike.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
We'll be right back, okay, So before we get to
the phone calls, let's go to why you even get
phone calls? Because this cat under the beginning of the
(11:28):
Brooklyn Bridge.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
What was this, John Sarentino, Yeah, he said a mouthful, yes, bugles,
and what are the things? The people's bunting bunting, and
that's one thing, but the counselors.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah, that was almost prophetic.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
It absolutely was.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
So tell me, I know you didn't you dismissed the
young ones.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
But no, I didn't dismiss them. I felt for them.
They were put in impossible situations. They were, but you
still they were not appropriate. They were not inappropriate fit so.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
You and you're very highly trains psychological background. Yeah, I'm
a mom decided I want to do something better. Yeah,
tell me about it.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I had no idea. I had no idea this seed
of my pants.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
But you are passionate.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yes, I saw a need. Yes, So I I asked
a friend who owns a lot of property in Brooklyn
if she had an empty storefront. And this was in
February of o two, and she had an old plastic
flower shop that had almost as much dusted it as downtown.
(12:34):
And the firefighters came from the site to turn it
into a counseling center.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
The firefighters helped you do it.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah, they helped build it. So that to me said okay.
Then they they at the time, I think they just
thought it was crazy. But John was like, we got
to get the counseling out of the firehouse. People are coming,
we get a run. Guys can't be crying their eyes
out in the basement with a counselor. It's just we
don't want people in the house. It's we got to
start getting back to normal. And so I found.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
There's something else there too, something Neil's taught me.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
What's that.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Two things. One, these are guys guys, and there's a
little bit of a stigma, and even when you know
you need help, oftentimes you're unwilling to seek it, especially
when it's inside the fire department. Sure because you figure
world'll get around they might put a big scarlet letter
on your file. Not might they do? They don't now
(13:30):
apparently they did.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
It was quite it was quite a difficult time for
the fire Department and Counseling Services unit to go from
I think they had eleven or fourteen counselors to over
one hundred overnight. Tough, tough place to be. I don't
criticize or judge them at all.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
It's just it just was the culture. But the other
thing that I think is really important, something actually Alex said,
you know, Bill, don't forget, is that these guys, this
is what It's not only what they did for a living,
it's part of who they are. And if you're going
(14:07):
to counseling, you worried about are you going to fire me?
Are they going to reassign me. So between the cultural stigma,
especially in that environment, plus the fear of what that
scarlet letter on your file may do for your long
term employment and something that you love that is your life.
(14:29):
These guys knew they needed help, many of them, and
wanted help, but wouldn't seek it inside the department, which
made your flower shop convert outside of the apartment.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Less and less crazy as time went on. But in
beginning it was crazy, okay, and it's even something I
think that, yes, you hit the nail right there on
the head when you talked about the job, right They
wanted separation from the job if there was going to
be counseling, which I understood and still do to this day.
But what was more difficult is not being trusted by
(15:05):
your fellow firefighter because you have an anxiety attack, not
feeling comfortable going on the rig because you went on
the rig and everybody's dead and you were the chauffeur
and you don't want to drive anymore. So it was
like right there on the job. It was in the firehouse.
It was there so to have people come, Yeah, they
didn't want to be seen, for sure, But there were
a lot of aspects to it. And I've heard firefighters
(15:26):
in the very beginning and the job has learned a
lot of lessons and it was all really good intention.
But in the very beginning they were taking light duty guys,
of which there were some. Nobody wanted to do light duty.
They wanted to be at the site. But the light
duty ones would sometimes answer the phone at Counseling Services
unit in the very beginning because they were shorthanded, and
(15:47):
so then it would get back to the firehouse. Right
after the phone call. The guy would call the house
and tell them, you know who, call these nuts, and
it would get back to the firehouse. And that's part
of their culture. And I can't judge what was done today.
I would today, I would smack them, but back then, yeah,
that's bull. It's just bull. You don't do that. But
back then nothing had been written. There was no there
(16:09):
was no protocol, real absolutely none, And how could there be?
They just lost three hundred and forty three firefighters, How
could there be? And then the suicide started, So that
was the other thing, and that resonated with yes, yes,
and still are and that's still there are still suicide
day to this day, there are suicides from nine to eleven. Yeah,
(16:31):
I will say, yes, there are.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
How do you live with it for all this time
and then succumb to it? You would think time and
work would make it a little better over time.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I mean not if you have lost your family because
you didn't get help. And this is not putting it
on them. It's a really tough thing to ask a
first responder to sit down and be vulnerable. They're they're
not wired to be vulnerable. So if your spouse has
left and your children won't speak to you, and yeah,
(17:04):
twenty years goes by and you can't see your grandchildren
and all you do is drink or whatever, and sometimes
it seems to be and maybe they're dealing. Most likely
they're dealing with physical ailments as well. So yeah, that's
more O.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Their friends have died from nine to eleven related illnesses.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Countless friends have died. You know. I had a guy
say to me, the guy my left died, the guy
on my right is about to die any day. Now,
when's it my turn? And they and they go through
every day for years. I mean, that's a tremendous stressor
that I don't think any of us can really fathom
unless we were living that life. And it's a hard,
hard row. So again there's no judgment there. It's plus
(17:44):
my grandfather killed himself. So I'm like hyper sensitive to
how can we take that off the table as an option?
How do we give the firefighters that number that they'll
want to call? And that's where the peers come in.
But I'm jumping ahead, so so go ahead. You told
me you'd keep me on t A.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I'm trying.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
You're messing it up.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
I'm trying, and I'm kind of scared of you. So
so the flower shop.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Flower Shop. So what happened was I didn't I interviewed
two or three people, and as counselors, meaning you realers
who wanted to donate their time, I say limited, and
I'm thinking you don't pull the lid off and then say, sorry,
your time's up. I can't help you. Again. That's like,
I don't think that's healthy. I didn't know, but I
was right, you know, I just didn't feel right and.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
So' the BS meter.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah yeah, yeah, by the way, with you, it's like
dead zero. So that's good. Yeah, you're in, You're in. Yeah,
Well it's early in the day. So let's say where
so I partnered health I know how with Safe Horizon,
which was a counseling service that had already been established
(18:52):
I think twenty years prior for victims of crime in
New York City. And I had heard of them because
I was a victim of a crime in New York
City and I was beaten up. But I think that
was in nineteen seventy nine or eighty, so I had
heard of them and I wonder if they're still around,
and they were, and they were desperately trying to get
first responders in because they got a chunk of money
to do just that.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
You say things like that and then you don't even
let me. Were you mugged?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Oh yeah, but that was like a lifetime ago. I
wasn't mugged, No, I was just beaten up. There was
an EDP who just went off and I had beat it.
I'm sorry. There was an emotionally disturbed person that just
went off because I made eye contact with him and
he beat me up. So but that was like, wow, yeah,
a long time ago. The point is I was offered
(19:38):
counseling with Safe Horizon and after that, after that as
a victim, and I didn't take it. At the time
because I'm as thick as the firefighters. I didn't take it.
I didn't think I needed it. I did, I could
have used it. But anyway, I thought of them after
nine to eleven and I thought, you know, maybe this
is a fit. And they were so happy because they
(19:59):
needed to They needed to be able to counsel firefighters
as part of their that was restricted money that they accepted.
They had to now get the numbers and they found
that a lot of civilians came in, but not many
first responders across all agencies. I will give a shout
out the steel workers. I'm sure you heard about how
heroic they were. And we would have lost a lot
(20:20):
more than the ones we did on that day if
it wasn't for the steel workers. And they also suffer.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
So this was a crisis, and you talk about people
who really aren't trained for any of it, and they're
up there too.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Well, they're skipping over these things like pickup sticks. I mean,
they knew what they were doing, and.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
No, I mean trained for the human cornage, no underneath.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Not in the least now. And I think that having
spoken to many of them, they were very honored to
be there with fire department, in the police department, very honored.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I get that, Yeah, ohso lot, But you're still not
trained for that.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
They were not trained for the carnage, and the firefighters
were not trained for the dismantling of that kind of
a mess.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
So they leaned on each other with their skill set.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, and together they cleaned it up. We'll
be right back, getting back to the safe horizon. You know.
I went through I think five or six interviews with
(21:25):
their counselors and here I am, Who the hell am I?
And I'm just saying, no, no, no, no, no, no,
I'm not going to sit down with these people. And
my name is on this now and I'm not going
to let the wrong person come in. All good people
but maybe would have been good with children, or maybe
the elderly or maybe whatever. But they were not going
to no, because some of them would be judgmental. You
(21:49):
can't judge these guys, you just I mean, look, their
families can on you. But that if you want them
to talk, you have to shut the up and let
them talk, and they will, they'll talk. But if you
judge anybody, you know, we all shut down if we're judged.
But if you're judging a first responder because he's sharing
a story or her story. A lot of times they
throw things out there to test you to see if
(22:10):
you can take it, and some of it is really
raw stuff. If you're not able to take it and
understand that this is possibly a test and not judge
what they're saying, you don't belong there.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Well, they tell you mediocre, bad stories to see if
you can handle the ruins.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I've seen that happen.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
And sometimes they would type bullshit stories and sometimes they weren't.
Sometimes they went right into something horrible and then the
council would cry, you know, it's you know, that's not
going to help because their DNA is to help others, right,
So now they've allowed themselves to be vulnerable, which is
really hard. And now they've upset somebody, and and they
(22:52):
didn't mean to. If they mean to upset somebody, it's
something different. They'll claim up. And you really don't get
too many chances. So I'll give you a great example.
The kitchen tough house, really tough house, and they were
known for not letting outsiders in. And I'm an outsider
at this point, like totally. And the guy goes, what
are you here for?
Speaker 1 (23:10):
You?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
What are you one of those counselors? And I said, well,
actually no, And then one guy said, oh, she's she's
got counseling. That's outside of the job. He said, counseling
is bullsh and I started to I was on my
way out, and I turned around and go tell me
why it's bullshit. I really want to hear it. You know.
They told me I had to go to counseling in
Staten Island, and I drove around for almost a half
an hour and I couldn't find the room for them.
(23:33):
I thought that was great. It was great because he
never got in the room.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Do you know what I do for a real living football?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
No coaching, No, No, that's a side gig.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
What I do for a real living is own a
lumber company and we manufacture hard with lumber. Okay, big sALS.
Anybody in my business that has all ten.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Digits, Yeah, that's just not a chill lumper.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
All right, Big app forklifts fifty five acres metal buildings loud.
I mean all of it.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Very cool.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, what you just said is how pretty much everybody
in my employee communicates. So I get those guys. I
actually think they're hilarious, hilarious, and I loved dudes like
that because you feel like, well, if I get stuck
in a fox hole, I want to be stuck in
a hole.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
With that guy exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
And I love those guys. But it's the absolute truth. Yeah,
they would just as soon cut off a finger and
hurt you accidentally. They may tear your ass up if
they do it on purpose, but not everybody is weakly,
get what you're saying about these guys.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Not everybody is respected enough to have their torn up.
And if you understand where I'm going with this, if
they don't make fun of you, they don't like you,
right right, that's right. But what happened out of that
was the kitchen fell out, right, They just they just
fell out. Here's a senior guy, they all respect.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
He's a meathead.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
But that's came out. It's hilarious, but it's sort of
set the tone for you know, the guys were like, well,
you didn't even go, so how can you say it sucks?
And you know, they weren't saying we're going to go,
but they were saying.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
You know, if you're freaking embo, so how do you know,
if it's so funny you didn't even find the parking
lot jacket. Funny, maybe you don't need counseling, but you
certainly need GPS.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Jack apt nobody had GPS then, But you know what
I mean, I do know. Well, we all had our maps, right, yeah,
we had our paper maps. But what it was And
in his defense, because I had to save them a
little bit from himself, they didn't put signs up to
say where the counselor was. So I had to say,
you know, I heard that they don't have a proper signage,
you know, just I had to give him a bone.
You know, you can't just like leave the guy, but
(25:39):
actually you could. But it taught me a lot right then,
because the perception, their perception is reality, and it might
be wacky, but it's their perception. So when you want
to match them up with counselors, you have to make
sure you have counselors that aren't easily ruffled, that understand
that this is not your normal civilian. Geography matters, geography
(26:00):
and merit and signs matter too. But this is a tribe.
It's a tribe, and the different departments throughout the country,
throughout the world. They're tribes, but they all come under
this heading and they're a subset of our society. And
they are just crazy enough to come in and get
us out of the stupid things we get ourselves into
(26:21):
and the things that we don't deliberately. But disasters happen,
and they're the first ones there. So what's there for
them when they need help? On their terms? Right? So
that means not not banging them in the wallet. So
our services are free to the members and their families
and active and retired firefighters, making it possible to park.
(26:43):
They don't take generally speaking, they don't like mass transit.
They go to too many subway and incidents. They don't
want to go in the subway.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And the parking spots need to be wild because they're
driving trucks.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
They do drive trucks. But it doesn't that be wide
because they go on our sidewalk. I know, but no,
it isn't a joke. It's true. They do, most of them.
The guy that pulls up in Mercedes, please give me
a give me a break. But we are in an
old firehouse now. So we moved out of the flower.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Shop in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
That was awesome. The woman that owns the flower shop.
I heard through a source rumors that they had a firehouse,
the old firehouse in Red Hook that was one o
one quarters. That the tenant was going to skip out
on the next day. So I waited till he cleared town,
and then I called the landlord, who I've known for years,
(27:33):
and said, we want to move in. Oh, we have
a tenant there. No, you don't. He skipped out and
he owed a lot of back rent, but he left things.
So he had a metal fabrication shop and the whole
thing was machinery, and our guys had to make it
a firehouse again. This time over four hundred firefighters showed
up over a span of three years to turn it
(27:55):
back into a firehouse, which is what it looks like today.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
But it's actually Friends of Firefighters for counseling.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Well not just counseling so downstairs. So I designed it
so that when you walk in, well before we get there.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Got all right, because this is the reveal. When did
it go from looking for a bugler to an actual
organization called Friends of Firefighters at.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
That's a great question. No, the flower shop came weeks
after I got incorporated as Friends of Firefighters. What happened
was my daughter is hearing a pairent and she was
in a school that is a very expensive private school
because she was on scholarship. That's not here nor there.
But I always feel bits that's cool anyway, she'll listen
(28:43):
to it. Yeah, well with her hearing AIGs, yes she will.
She'll listen to it. But where are we y pack her? Oh?
Because there were wealthy families there and they were very
generous and they wanted to help. So we decided to
form a group that would help the firefighters. And I
was the contact to the houses. And there was nurse
in there and she had a friend who wanted to
take over the whole thing. She was a counselor, and
(29:05):
we didn't agree because I thought this woman was a
little batty. To be honest, the nurse was lovely, she
was really lovely. But this other woman had a degree
and I didn't in counseling. So she hedged her bets
and said, I'm going to go with the moment the degree,
no hard feelings. I really don't feel bad. And they
took that organization. But once I removed myself because I
didn't like the way she was moving forward. It was
(29:26):
not going to work for the firefighters. The whole thing
fell apart for them. And I went on with a
couple of the like the woman that owned the property
and another woman whose husband was Silicon Valley guy, and
they helped me to get incorporated and then start this thing.
And she came up with the name Friends of Firefighters,
(29:47):
and the first time I heard I said, oh, for
got say that. I hate that name. That's so stupid.
The firefighters are not going to go to Friends of Firefighters.
It sounds like, you know, and we're women, and we're like, no,
my wife is going to say, yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
It's cool, you got Arnie music in the dumb dumb dumb.
But I couldn't come up with anything else. And then
the lawyer needed a name. By the morning, I'm gonna
choose this name. So I said, can we do fof
and I'll tell you later when we're not being taken
to what I started to call out.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I can only imagine.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I can't say, but I said, screw it, screw it,
I'll do it. And I actually believe that some firefighters
didn't come because of the name. But at this point,
you know, Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
So then you move to this thing leaves metal fabrication.
Fourner firefighters donate their time to put turn it back
into a firehouse.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yes, but that was eight years after I started the organization.
I started in this flower shop and it got too
small real fast. It just got small. So it had
a small counseling room and a little kitchen in the
back and a waiting room in the front, and it
just wasn't working. Whoever was there would see the other
one leave and it just wasn't working.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
So when I offer, which lends to the same stigma
as to why they're not going to the fire department
help in the.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
First part of it, Yeah, yeah, for sure. So when
we did get the new place, which is a firehouse
it was built in eighteen seventy four, I think, really, yeah,
it's pretty awesome. It's pretty awesome. So the guys came
and they did the work, and I learned more about
construction than I ever wanted, and I could have used you.
Then we were getting little grants here and there, but
the American Red Cross ended up giving us like a
(31:20):
four four to five year grand of nine to eleven money,
and that really helped launch it. That's when I went
to school and I learned about nonprofit management and all
of that.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
So how old were you when you went back to school?
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Forty five?
Speaker 1 (31:35):
See that's awesome. Yeah, that are forty five. This meant
enough to you that you went back to school.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yeah, well to me, it wasn't a sacrifice. It was
really it was again sacrifice was so lucky. Yeah, it
was cool.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I get that's not a sacrifice, and I get that's
like part of the deal. But yeah, it speaks to
your commitment to it all.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I never thought of it that way, but okay, that
does okay, And.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Local Memphis tie in who also helped was Robin Hood Foundation.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
I was just about to say, I was just about
to see go get so before Robin Hood Foundation was
was the first organization, the very first was the German
American Solidarity Foundation.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
The German American Solidarity Foundation. Everybody's heard of that.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
They were actually very sweet, but I had no clue,
Like this is when everybody the money was just like
showering down on New York and I was really more
interested in building the trust because that was to be
more important at the time. By the time I built
the trust, the money was pretty much gone. But one
of the widows, Marion Fontana, who's a friend of mine,
Her husband Dave was killed on that day that was
(32:46):
their anniversary, nine to eleven. She recommended us to the
Robin Hood Foundation, and when that grant went away, they
recommended us to the American Red.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Cross Jones Robin Hood Foundation. Sky was, haarted, you know
where it's from.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Memphis right here, you see, you led me into that.
I'm not going to say mackwn Island. Oh right, cool,
that's cool.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
All right. So you make the firehouse.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
The firefighters built the firehouse back into a firehouse, and
we did this thing where when you walk in, I
wanted them to be able to go straight upstairs. So
the guys in the back with the doors closing, we
had we we did things. So we changed it so
that the doors closed and there was a kitchen downstairs,
and if they went upstairs, the guys with the doors
closed would never see who was coming in and out.
(33:37):
And so also what I do is stagger the room.
So one room was counseling, one room was acupunctured, the
other one was biofeedback. So nobody knew who was where when.
But they started telling each other and now like they'll
come in and they go, yeah, I'm here to see
my therapist. And it's a world away from what it was.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
What do you mean come.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
In or is there like a hangout area for downstairs?
Speaker 2 (34:01):
There are two big tables which and there's a kitchen.
So we have a breakfast every month the second Wednesday
of every month, and we used to and we'll get
back to it. The last Wednesday of every month in
the evening we'd have something called kitchen Talk and we
would get at the request of a Chief of department,
Ed Kilduff, he asked me to do something to bring
(34:24):
the young new firefighters because a lot of the nine
to eleven firefighters were retiring in huge numbers, and then
bring them into the culture a little more by having
the older ones give presentations and seminars and whatnot. So
that's what we did, and we had giants and Vigiano came.
He lost his two sons, one police officer, one firefighter.
Vinnie Dunn still comes in. Vinie's now working on his
(34:46):
thirteenth book, I think now about firefighting. So these greats
would come in and show the young, younger firefighters and
what was really wonderful is when we'd have people come
in and other people in the audience were at that job,
and they would tell different perspective about it, so there
was engagement.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
We'll be right back. I got a question, just a
reality check, and I'm grasping here, so this may be
a terrible question. If it is, we can edit it
(35:27):
out up.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Oh, I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Go Well, I've coached, I've run my business everything, but
I've coached in the city school system for thirty three
years and the way I coach is much different than most.
I have a different approach okay to the way I
believe kids should be nurtured. That accountable coach taught all
(35:48):
of that, and oftentimes the bureaucracy of a government run
organization doesn't like people like me at first at least.
And I'm just curious. You're setting up a council center
for city employees outside of the counseling center provided for
(36:12):
city employees, because you thought the counseling center provided for
city employees is quote bullsh I just wonder how you read.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
That's fascinating that that's what you got from me. I
just wanted to totally, no, totally no. I did not
think they were bullshit at all.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
I don't know that their approach, I said approach was being.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
No, no, no, they're approaching no. I thought it was clear,
So I'll be even more clear. They had fourteen councilors
on stage prior to nine to eleven. They had to
hire over one hundred. They lost three hundred and forty three.
They had to send them out to the firehouses. It
was unprecedented. There is no criticism as to how they
(36:54):
did it. Okay, this is what I did. There was
no judgment there at all.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
There really wasn't. The fire none was fine with it.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
I wasn't part of that. You know. I'm not there
to say, oh, this person could do a better job
or that unless they wanted to work for us, and
you know that was different. But they were CSU. You know,
for me, Counseling Services Unit was an option for some
of the firefighters, and it wasn't for others. So rather
than have anybody fall through the cracks, let them have
(37:22):
another option that doesn't cost them money.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
I candidly think that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
I just I guess so you're saying I had balls
to say that the job had their They're set up
already and who a might have come in? I like
this question now, so who might have come in and
do this? Yes, I didn't ask for permission. I just
followed what the firefighters were asking for.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
See, that's what I found interesting and candidly. You know,
people who think out of the box and don't say, well,
this is the way things are done or whatever are
often ones that found all kinds of cool solutions, right,
But oftentimes those type people also scare the folks that
like to play within the lines, and they will try
(38:02):
to shut them out. And I just wondered if you
had any problems with that. But oh, I guess it
does speak to the fact that New York as a
whole was bombed. Everybody and it felt it, and so
any positive momentum probably people convalesced around that maybe you
wouldn't get and other circumstances.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I guess I think that, and that's also true. So
but the then head of CSU did not lie. It
made it very clear he did not want us me
to have an organization that was helping me. No, it
was very clear, and I got a lot of pushback
over the years, and there were a lot of rumors
out there. No, you're not far off. I love your question.
(38:45):
I think it's great. I just take issue with you
thinking that I thought that they weren't doing enough, because
that's not it. Yeah, but yeah, no, that wasn't a
judgment on my part. It was just you know, I
know some guys are not going for help. Where will
they go? They trusted me over time, and then the
firehouse helped a lot because when they came to work
(39:05):
on it and everything, that said a lot that they
wanted to come and work on it. That told me
that they saw that there was a need because nobody charged.
I mean, they came and did it.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
The fact that you say firemen now come in and
say I'm going to see my therapist.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
You talk about it twenty four years later, Well I
get it.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
What a ship alight? So when did you open? When
did the firehouse become the place?
Speaker 2 (39:26):
After Sandy? Twenty twelve thirteen? After Sandy, because what happened
with Sandy teen years ago, but Sandy took out so
many houses and so many firefighters. So it was over
seven hundred active firefighters and over twelve hundred retirees either
lost their houses entirely or had such significant damage they
had to move out, and my team and I were
on boots on the ground. So our firehouse took on
(39:49):
four feet of water. So we lost the kitchen we
had just put in, and two cars. I'm a car buff.
I like to work on cars, and I had two cars. Luckily,
howcome that unsurprised me at all. Luckily they were two
newer cars, because I now have four four two on
the floor and I have a fifty seven Chevy. They
(40:10):
if I hear this rain coming, they're they're out right there.
There's what I don't own. The four I don't own that.
It's a fire fighter. Sister owns that and she doesn't
know how to drive it. So I have it right now.
I can't even and she doesn't want to learn because
it scares her. You know, it's got her shifter and everything.
It is a little scared. It's a power convertible. Really.
(40:31):
I'll show you pictures later, but anyway, for now, we
were flooded, and so what we did was I was
we hit the ground running. We had clipboards. We went out.
Those are clipboards that are okay. We went out into
the affected area, mostly in the rockaways. Staten Island had
thirty feet squalls, different areas that were Garrettson Beach. And
(40:52):
because of my connection with Steve Buscemi, he was then
doing Boardwalk Empire and working with HBO. HBO gave us
some trailers that we could work out of, and so Sandy,
we were so present and we were going to people's
homes and Steve Buscemi was in my car and we
were going to homes and Steve would get out and
he'd help us, like rip down walls and pump. So
(41:16):
our name became, like you need something called Friends of
Firefighters and that built trust. It was amazing and everybody
came together, and the firefighters there's one in particular who
just astounded me. He is He's a wonderful guy and
he was helping people for almost three weeks before we
all found out that his house was in terrible shape,
(41:38):
but he wasn't doing anything there. He was helping his
family and he moved them upstairs. But we found out
about it and then Liam Flaherty from Rescue two went
over and that's Bobby for Manie, He's the one that
was out there helping everybody else and that's who they are.
So it makes my job so much easier because when
there's an opportunity to help, and no, he and Liam
both didn't accept help, But when there's an opportunity to help,
(42:01):
I'm going to help.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
You speak with reverence. When you speak about firefighters, your
eyes change.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Oh that's weird. I mean, that's just the weird thing.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
You brighten up.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
I brighten up.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
You really do, And not that you're not bright, but
you you can just tell the reverence you hold these
people in the way that they will go completely off
the hook to help someone else and then won't even
get out of the street for themselves. Sometimes.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yeah, absolutely. Did you ever see a firefighter run in
when everybody's running out? That's like, that's a little crazy, right.
But when they say they need help, I think it's
incumbent upon all of us to make sure they have
it in a way that's comfortable for them.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
But I think that reverence and empathy for them is
why they come to you. I think they feel that.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Some of them don't know me, some of them just
know their counselor they just know we have a good reputation.
Maybe originally I'm going to catch heat for that when
I get home. Maybe maybe originally you know, there was
a little bit of that, but really I think, Sandy is.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
You're going to catch it for that when you get home.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
I don't care.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Oh I don't either. I'm just glad you know it
can help.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Yeah, thank you, thank you, because I don't get enough.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
What happened though, is after our place was deconned, I
went out to Ikea, which was in Red Hook, and
I bought fourteen bunk beds because I knew they were
going to come. That movie by the Field of Dreams,
I knew they were going to come, and they did.
So they came from all over the place, and New
Orleans sent thirty six firefighters and we did shifts. Oh
(43:36):
my gosh, Michigan were the first ones to pull up.
They had an RV. We didn't have power till December,
so we kind of froze our eggs off. But they
came and then they would go out at five in
the morning, and they work all day. New Orleans is
a tough group. Boy. They don't turn it off. They
work all day, drink all night, work all day, six
(43:56):
days running. You guys are going to die. And our
guys couldn't even keep up with them. And our guys
are pretty tough, but they couldn't keep up with New Orleans.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
So curious twelve years later this girl who hung behind woman,
thank you girl anymore behind a tree?
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Well that was just to ambush somebody that was not
like I wasn't shy. I needed the timing to be
right before I ambushed it.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
But you did it.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I did it, well, yeah I did.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Now has a degree.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
In what nonprofit management?
Speaker 1 (44:36):
It's nonprofit management? And how many how many therapists or.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Party we actually need more? We were up to fourteen
and now we're down to nine, so I used to
hire more. Unbelieved if I had twenty therapists right now,
they would.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
All have full How many firefighters have you served?
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Firefighters active, retired in their families, well over one thousand,
over one thousand and their families and their families. Oh yeah,
you have to include families. You have to. You know,
when you're helping somebody, and these families, you know, they
get beaten up by the schedule. The schedule is brutal,
and you know the parent who was the first responder
can't be at every game, sometimes can't be at a graduation.
(45:16):
Although they help each other and they cover each other's shifts.
It's not always it's not always possible. So there's a
you know, they get a great vacation, but otherwise they're
like back to back working crazy hours.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
But that's the thing is honestly, the truth is you
showed up and said what can I get you? And
it was some purple and black ribbon of bugler and
look for some counselors for our guys. And you became
what they looked for.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Okay, but if your.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Organization became what they needed the most.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
The organization became what they dictated it should over time.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Well, now that's interesting because you listen to what they
needed rather than what people told.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Right, And the approach is the same, but the needs change, right,
So there are different things, a whole different world from
nine to eleven to Sandy to COVID. Every single time
they needed different things different ways. But by the time
COVID hit, we were fairly established and we had gone
(46:19):
to online for guys that couldn't make it in. We
went to online counseling the year before. So when COVID hit,
we were ready to run.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
And you're ready for the next one. Whatever it is
got for me, Oh cheez, well, there will be a
next one.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
There will be, and we are ready to help the
firefighters in any way that they say they need.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
If someone said friends of Firefighters is, how would you
complete that sentence? Man?
Speaker 2 (46:51):
You didn't give them any cliff notes before I came in,
or I'm sorry to sheet.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
I just I thought you'd be able to answer, because
you just are never at a loss for words.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
I know. So let me gather mine and I'll spit
it right back out edible.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
This is a show fire friends of Firefighters. I want
to know from you. You created it. Friends of Firefighters is.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
I think that we could be considered to be not
the catcher and the rye, but we're maybe we want
to get the firefighters that are not comfortable. So that's
not telling you who we are. I think what we
are is what the firefighters envisioned and molded over the
(47:40):
years to the point where we're an extension of We
started out really really simple, bunting. It's you know, bugler
bugles and counseling was a tough one. I thought it
would last a year or two count Friends of Firefighters
(48:00):
is a highly respected organization today, and I want to
see it national. I want to see it go national,
because there are fire departments. You know, we were in
Biloxi and we set up a program down there, and
there are so many departments throughout the country that have
no help. They have no counseling services unit. Sometimes they
don't have a full department, they have a volley group.
(48:21):
Then they do the best they can. I think when
people put their lives on the line, they deserve to
have a place to go that speaks their language, that
understands them and doesn't profit off of it. So it
just comes down to trust.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
Does anybody ever pay anything for counseling and Friends of bark.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Friers No, And that kind of shoots me in the
foot because I'm always looking to raise money and that's
been a really tough thing. I was in the trenches
while people were bringing in the money that they absolutely used.
And there are some other organizations that are excellent and
they have like a hundred people on their development team
raising money. That's not us yet. I hope it will
(49:02):
be someday. But my goal right now is not just
to keep the doors open, but right now, my short
term is keep the doors open. Long term, make this
a national organization. You know, maybe one in every state,
you know, but which would be really awesome, But right now,
I want to keep the doors open. We have a
wait list. We were up to seventy seven and I
(49:22):
thank god just heard what's down to thirty four. That's
seventy seven may days. As far as I'm concerned, if
a firefighter's calling for help, it's already going to.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Say they really. I was going to say it was
an SOS second thing, yeah, but that's secondly seven.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Well, we'll take the ones that are like that need
to be seen. And our counselors have been amazing and
stepping up and going over their limit to accommodate them.
And we check in with those who haven't been seen
to make sure that they're okay. You know that, but
they are. Some of them say no, I'll go to CSU, Great,
no problem, But CSU doesn't take retiaries or they might
take me diaries now, but they don't take families. And
(49:56):
so we have a children's program, it's called the Bravest Children.
We have a peer program which we've expanded so in
order to meet the need, and that that's been really helpful.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
So your kid went off to some real high fallut
in school.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
She did in first grade, high falutin high Falutin's that's impressive.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
And I know you're proud of her.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
I am proud of her. How did you know that?
How did you know? I wasn't like embarrassing my daughter?
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Oh, I just know.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
I listen, I have another one too.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
It's like you, what's the other daughter? Day? Now?
Speaker 2 (50:27):
My son? I had another child. My son's a musician.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Yep, not far from the tree, then, not far. I
just wondered if they are.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
They impacted by all of this. They're proud of me,
I should be well. I appreciate that. You know, it
took a lot out of the family too, you know,
all of it does. Yeah, I mean I was in
I was in firehouses at two in the morning, helping
them write eulogies. So the early years were particularly I
get it.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
I do, I seriously do get it. And and it
does have to have buy in from people in your
sphere to help you to be successful at what your
endeavors are. But like I said at the beginning, we'd
love to talk to tell stories of where passion, it's
opportunity and amazing things happen where normal folks who aren't
(51:16):
rich or part of some big five O one C
three or tapped on the shoulder from a politician. Simply
use that passion see an aery need fill it and
change people's lives. And holy crap, Nancy, that's exactly what
your story is.
Speaker 2 (51:33):
We are five to one C three.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
Now you are, but you created it.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, No that was February of O two.
Are you going to ask me about the Ireland bike Ride?
Speaker 1 (51:44):
I was going to say one thing first, go ahead,
how do people find out more about you? And is
there a website or whatever?
Speaker 2 (51:50):
We forget me, but the organization is Friendsifirefighters dot org.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
Yeah. Can people reach out to you if they're interested
in supporting you or be mimicking your thing in their neighborhoods.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Yeah, when they talk about mimicking things or having like
a scaling, Yeah, but I would be real interested in
how they go about it, you know, especially if they
want to use our name. Well they can't use our name,
but if we're going to grow like that, that would
be great. I love partnering with They found Nancy. They
called the office or Nancy at Friends of Firefighters dot
(52:26):
orger Nancy Friends Firefighters, Laurel yes, it's not one guy
friends of the fireman. Oh my god, so at some
point apparently not at some point.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
And now we're going to do it. Then I'm supposed
to ask you about a bicycle in Ireland.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
Oh my god, that's just as bad as one fireman.
It's not one bicycle in Ireland.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
One fire about friends of the Fireman.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
We have a board member who I love dearly, and
he came on right when we started. Danny Prince. Danny
Prince is the Prince of Princess. He's an awesome guy.
He was Coastguard Fire Department for over forty years. He
calls it to this day the friend of the Fireman.
Speaker 1 (53:08):
He just calls it that on the board. That's okay,
I say stuff all the time. That absolutely drops Alex.
Absolutely Baddie had to be perfectly candid. I say it
wrong on purpose.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
Now I don't think Danny says it wrong on purpose. Yeah.
No's that's what it is. And he calls our place.
He doesn't call it the firehouse. He calls it the store.
We don't sell stuff, but Danny is Danny, and and
so you know, I accept that, and I'm glad he's on.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
Board I'm not surprising at all. You know, bicycle ride or.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
Something's a bicycle ride. Yes. So last year, two years ago,
a chief came in Danny Sheridan, and Danny is the
pain in maya that Alex is in yours got it,
but he gets things done like Alex does. He picked up,
he was on time and everything.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
That's why you put up with the pin in there.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
Danny had an idea that he had been batting around
with his best friend thirty years ago, that they were
going to ride for some charity, starting in Dublin going
down to the Lower They didn't even know at the time,
but they wanted to ride around Ireland and raise money.
His friend was killed on nine to eleven. He came
to us a year and a half ago and said,
I'd like to do this and you'd be the charity.
(54:19):
So he and my daughter worked together on it and
I was in the support vehicle. But they rode every
day from Dublin to Kinsale. I think it was three
days of riding. One of the days, the last day,
was one hundred miles that they rode. And these are
Irish roads, single lane, brutal, brutal, and this year gorgeous,
(54:40):
but this year I've been told by the Irish that
it's even more beautiful. We're going from Newcastle West down
to Kinsale and in Kinsale they have a nine to
eleven garden where they've planted three hundred and forty three
trees for firefighters and the equal amounts for port authority
and police officers to honor. So we're going to land
there on nine to eleven and then next year over
(55:02):
one hundred firefighters from Ireland are coming into us. We're
going to meet in Boston where we're picking up a
ton of Boston firefighters. I heard Chicago, and I know Toronto.
We're joining US firefighters and we're going to ride down
from Boston to ground zero.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (55:17):
Yeah, pretty cool? Right?
Speaker 1 (55:19):
How does that raise money?
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Well, we need sponsors and it's funny you should say
you have a big lumber company. I'm going to hit
everybody up for sponsorships because they get to see it.
We're going to have drones and you know, have what
we Last year was a run through like what can
we do and what are we missing? And this year,
you know, we're ready. We're really ready.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
Certainly to goodness, Alex. That's got to get some press
of some sort and that would encourage big sponsors that
could actually move the needle. You got a one hundred
Irish ironment coming up.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
Pretty cool, although we'll left our heads off, I know
that's a given, and maybe drink a little bit, but
but just a little beer here and there. Yeah, but yes,
just so we right before actually we had closed registration
last year. There was a firefighter last year who almost
died and it almost was a fatal fire and we
didn't think he was going to make it at first.
(56:10):
It was that bad a flashover. He was very badly burned,
and we closed our registration for the ride. In about
a week and a half before the ride, we get
a call from this guy. He wants to go on
the trip, and I was stunned, and I just thought, yes, absolutely,
but I don't know how it's going to be for him.
I know that the fire was very impactful in his
(56:31):
life and his family's life, and he had decided you
wanted to go. He went. It was life changing and
now he speaks about that and he's on this ride too.
He's actually on the committee this year. So cool, so cool.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
What's tons of stuff with us on your website.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so there it is there,
it is.
Speaker 1 (56:50):
So friends are Fireman Jesus, Yeah, you didn't deliver the line.
Your response? What was your response to Danny Fritz?
Speaker 2 (56:59):
Oh, that's a big budget for one guy, right, the
Friends of the Fireman?
Speaker 1 (57:07):
Yeah? Sorry, yeah, Nacy Carbone all the way from New
York City to Memphis to tell us about the Friends
of Fireman. I'm kidding the Friends of Firefighters.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
Laurl please make sure you say that is col Peace.
Speaker 1 (57:20):
You can look it up on our website. And more importantly,
I hope you've enjoyed the story, because, my friend, you
are exactly what we look for when we talk about
an army of normal folks. And I just I can't
thank you enough for telling your story. I can't thank
you enough for opening with although a little bit gut wrenching,
(57:41):
I think important perspective for people to understand why folks
might be so moved to do work that they've done
for so long in New York. And the truth is
nine to eleven has not quit killing, and there's still
work today. Soldiers like you that carry on that work
(58:02):
change lives. And so it's been awesome to meet you
and you're same inspiring.
Speaker 2 (58:07):
I don't want to step on your last word, but
I'm going to thank you for bringing me here and
for recognizing the work that we do. But it's a
little selfish what I do because I get a lot
out of helping people, so I feel a little bit
uncomfortable when you make it. So thanks for calling me normal.
If my mom we're alive, you get a chuckle out
of that. This has been nothing short of an honor
(58:29):
all these years, and to be accepted by them by
and large has been amazing. I will say Counseling Services
Unit and Friends of Firefighters are on very friendly terms now.
We see each other's strengths and while we don't share information,
we help each other where we can.
Speaker 1 (58:45):
It's fantastic. And I will tell you, almost to a person,
everybody that we interview, and we do one of these
a week, and we have for over two years now,
so we're talking seven hundred people so far, almost to
a person, all say they get more out of it
than they put into it. And they are also hide
away from the light because of their humility. And I
(59:10):
just got to tell you something I've learned from the
collection of people I've talked to that humility is one
of the reasons you've been so successful. So carry on
and well done, Nancy, and thanks for chastening with us.
Speaker 2 (59:21):
Oh, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
I'm really honored to be here, and thank you for
joining us this week. If Nancy Carbone has inspired you
in general, or better yet, to take action by donating
to friends of firefighters, which she desperately needs, or wanting
to do something like it in your community which she
would love to scale, or sharing the first responders that
(59:46):
you know, or something else entirely, would you please let
me know I want to hear about it. You can
write me anytime at Bill at normal folks dot us
and I will respond. And because of the lack of emails,
recently starting to have a little bit of an inferiority complex,
So please reach out and say hi. If you enjoyed
this episode, share it with friends that on social subscribe
(01:00:08):
to the podcast, rate and review it. Join the army
at normal folks dot us, consider becoming a premium member
there any and all of these things that will help
us grow an army at normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.
Until next time, do what you can
Host
Bill Courtney
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