August 5, 2025 • 37 mins
After black snow rained down on her on 9/11, Nancy knocked on the door of local firehouses to see how she could help. When several firefighters told her that they’d need counseling, this non-therapist and normal mom got to work. 24 years later, Friends of Firefighters has provided over 1,000 firefighters and their families with mental health and wellness services at no cost to them!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I went to a firehouse I had never been to before,
and I went in and I met a firefighter, John Sorrentino,
and I said, what do you need? And he goes,
you have paper, and I had a legal pad, which
I still have, and he said, the first thing we
need is bunting for the firehouse. Bunting is the dark
purple and black flag that they drape outside a house
(00:22):
to say we've had a loss in the house. And
they had a set of three for bunting for the
entire firehouse, Frior department rather and they lost three hundred
and forty three men, so you can imagine that, you know,
they needed bunting. So the second thing he said is
and this was like the day after, I mean it
was like right away, and so he blew my mind.
The second thing he said he needed was a bugler
(00:45):
because one of the guys they lost eight men, and
he knew that they were gone, said one of them
is military. We need a bugler at the funerals, and
you know if we ever recovered them. The last thing
he said was counselors. And you could have knocked me
over with a feather.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
So did you go to work.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yes, welcome to an army of normal votes. I'm Bill Courtney.
I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,
I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been an inner city football
coach in Memphis. And the last part, well, it led
somehow to a film about our team that won the Oscar.
(01:23):
That movie is called Undefeated. I believe our country's problems
are never going to be solved by a bunch of
fancy people and nice suits using big words that nobody
understands on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army
of normal folks. That's us, just you and me deciding Hey,
you know what, maybe I can help. That's what Nancy Carbone,
(01:45):
the voice you just heard, has done. After Black snow
rained it down on her on nine to eleven, Nancy
knocked on the door of a local firehouse to simply say, Hey,
how can I help? And when several firef told her
that they'd need counseling, this non therapist and normal mom,
(02:06):
well she got to work. Twenty four years later, Friends
of Firefighters has provided over one thousand firefighters and their
families with mental health and wellness services at no cost.
And I can't wait for you to meet Nancy right
after these brief messages from our general sponsors. Nancy Carbone,
(02:47):
welcome to mephis thank you. Flewent from desclined from LaGuardia.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yes, I did Delta, Yes, NonStop and come on, it
has to be NonStop.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Well short, we don't get it. We used to have
a hub here. We were in Northwest Hub and we
had non stops everywhere, and then when Delta bault Northwest,
they yanked out probably eighty percent of our non stops
and so I suffer with connections. New Yorkers don't suffer.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
With I'm sorry to hear that you do, but I
did not. I watched part one of one of your podcasts,
and before we got to part two, it was time
to put our electronic equipment away. So it was great, awesome.
So clearly you're from New York everybody. Nancy Carbone is
the founder and executive director of Friends for Firefighters, which
(03:38):
has nine eleven UKs.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
What's that? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:41):
What friends of UB?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Did I write it wrong? No? I think I said
it wrong. Friends of Firefighters?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Right?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Right?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Friends? For see what I tell you, pliat, you couldn't
have corrected me. We have to have a producer.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
I'm not going to because so stupid.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Correct me for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I definitely will.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
You just gave me the go out of New York woman.
You don't have any fear to correct it? A god.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I don't have fear, but I have manners.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Oh well that's good. Hi. So, founder and executive director
of Friends of Firefighters, A New York guy through and
through in terms of what I guess the last twenty
five years of her life have been so far. But
I am curious where you from?
Speaker 1 (04:23):
How'd you grow up from New York? Born in Born
in Flushing, New York, and then we moved to the
Island when I was about two years old, so I'm
from Long Island originally.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
What'd your parents did?
Speaker 1 (04:35):
My dad was a custodial engineer and my mom was
chasing kids all day until I was about junior high school,
and then she became an EG technician.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
How many of you are there?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I have six siblings, but my aunt and uncle were
raised with us as well. Your aunt uncle what were
raised with us as well? So they were in and
out nine cares?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Your mom dealt with nine holy smokes? How did your
dad make enough money to house clothe and feed that crew.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
He worked several jobs. He worked really hard, he really did.
He worked hard and it was tight. It was tight,
and I think that that adds to our character. We're
pretty tough group. You know. We didn't get everything we wanted,
but we got what we needed.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
So what's it like? I don't want to ask you
what's it like at that time of life growing up
in New York City. I mean that had to have
been interesting, exciting fun. Maybe you didn't know any different.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Hell no, it wasn't exciting. I was on Long Island.
Our house was built on a potato field. There was
no exciting. You know, it was exciting. I had a
stingray with a banana seat. That was exciting. That was exciting. Yes, yes,
I actually have one now. But back then we would play,
you know, and where they were building houses, we would
(06:02):
make what do you call it ramps and jump off
of those and that was exciting. But I left the
city when I was two. My parents took us out
to the island and it was we made our own fun.
Our house was the party house, and that that was
later on when I was a teenager. That was a
lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Well did you I mean, did you get to venture
end of the city as a kid?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah, yeah, as a teenager, not as a younger child,
I say, yeah, teenager. Well, I mean I remember going
to the Statue of Liberty when I was like seven,
and I've lived in the city for over forty years
and I've not gone back, so you know, I will.
I've brought people. Yeah, I checked the box a long
time ago.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
So like as an eighteen, nineteen twenty year old coming up, Yeah,
you had the city, Yes, we had this to go sets.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, but I also sewed my oats in Plattsburgh, which
is close to the Canadian border.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
So my sister.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
It's a college that my sisters and brother went to
and it was a great party town. So I went there.
I was in a band, and I was in a
band there, and so we would play in the neighboring
areas and it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
What did did we vocals or Yeah, you were in
a band, yes, sir, hanging around in New York in college. Yeah,
what years were these?
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Oh really, we're going there? Seventy Well I started singing
when I was about thirteen, so that would be seventy
two three. Yeah, yeah, you heard that.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Guys, and then through the early eighties.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I had my first in eighty two. I had my
second child in eighty six, and I stopped for a while,
and then in ninety two I started in another band.
But I haven't done it in a while. Now I
just do it here and there.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
That is so cool.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, yeah, not a lot of people know that. I
don't even think. I don't think any of the firefighters
know that. Well, they will now I guess they will. Yeah,
they might.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And now they're going to make you sing what kind.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Of No, it was going to make me sing? Just
put a mic in front of me, and I'm comfortable.
I loved doing blues and swing and things like that.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
You're in the cradle of it. I know. Roads is
only an hour south here.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
You know, I'm not going to the crossroads. So my
life is up enough. I am not going to the
cross roads. Yeah. But the fact that you know what
the cross from, no, sir, No, sir, no, that is
I'm not making any deals with anybody for anything.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
That is so cool. So you had kids, so I
assume you had a husband somewhere.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Fifty two years. Yeah, I've been with my husband for
what it was been married forty five years. Kai k
y E k usual name Kye.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Okay, so that is really a cool background story. But
I mean, you grew up with a whole bunch of kids.
Your parents did what they could to raise you. You
had fun in college? What did you get a degree?
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I did not?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Okay, So you had a lot of fun in college.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Well, you know what it was. It was all about
the music for me, and it wasn't about you know,
I went on later on, but it was at that
time it would have been a waste of money and
time for me to sit in a classroom when I
came in at five am from a gig. It just
wasn't going to It wasn't happening, and I was not
I didn't know how to apply myself at that time.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Fair enough, you know, so whatever. But that's the point
is you grew up in New York one of.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
About eighty it sounds like it, around, and got married,
started having kids, and you have this normal really at
that point, unremarkable normal average life.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Well the point is, yes, what you're doing now.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Is that abnormal?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Okay and remarkable. It's not that different from growing my
kitchen table growing up, you had to be quick, you know.
It was a chaos, right, And my mom's Irish funny
as hell, and so humor is currency in a house
like that. So that's a house too. The humor is currency.
If you're funny, you know, you can kind of skirt around. Also,
(10:06):
chaos is comfortable for me, So when bad things happen,
you know, I don't shrink from that. But keep in mind,
I'm not a first responder.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And I've met some of those barrel chested Irish firemen
and they are absolutely hilarious. They're simply constantly breaking each
other's balls.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
It's the greatest.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
It's the greatest.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
It's the greatest set for a movie.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah, but you don't want the kitchen stuff getting out there.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I get it, all right, we're jumping at so normal person,
have any relatively normal life. Your mom, you're married, you're
leading your life. Yes, you're not out there doing anything
remarkable for society. You're taking care of yourself, your children
and your life. A normal person. Yep, Nancy. One of
(10:58):
the things we say all the time on our show
is that the magic happens, the amazing things in our
culture happens when one's passion and abilities intersect with opportunity.
And what I'm saying is that intersection had not that
(11:20):
collision had not happened yet, but it was about to
and up until the point that that opportunity happened. You're
doing life like all of us, But your story is
also an inspiration to say to all of us who
kind of say we're just leading our normal lives, there's
opportunity always always. So as I understand it, you and
(11:46):
your husband were at home and the windows rattled, and
you thought something broke upstairs or something.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I thought something dropped from a plane on our roof.
Really it was right Where did you live in Brooklyn?
Across the water?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
You and your husband? What were you doing for a living.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
At the time. I was actually I had an interview
that day for a job. I had been out of
work for a little bit due to an injury, so
I was really raring to go back to work. And
I had an interview in Manhattan, which needless to say,
I never went to. And what does your husband do
for He is an art professor and a painter.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Okay, they just got even cooler.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
And a guitar player, of course would and a chef.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Well, okay, and you know, yeah right, does he have
a Renaissance tatto?
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, pretty much, pretty much. He actually does have the
Vitruvian man on his arm.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeahee, I just know that. Okay. So he's an art
professor and artist. Y'all are sitting there and you think
something fell on top of your house. Really your house
rattled that hole?
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Oh yeah, yeah, it was a brown stone brownstone.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
So it's across the water from the Trade Center. And
that was the reverberation, and I called to my husband. Now,
I had gotten in late the night before because I
had gone I brought my son back to school in Vermont.
And an interesting thing I think it's interesting was the
let the night before was a light rain and I
was coming down the West Side Highway and I stopped
(13:23):
at a light right in front of the Trade Center,
and I remember looking up and Leon Russell's song Manhattan,
I can't remember the second part of it, Manhattan Serenade
came on and I was looking up and I remember
looking away up and just thinking I hadn't been up
there since the seventies. And then the light changed and
I went on. I went to sleep and what woke
(13:47):
me up was that that big the boom.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But first,
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(14:19):
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I hope you'll join us. We'll be right back. It
(15:45):
was a it was a boom, but I think I
read your windows rattled.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
They shook, well there were windows anyway, but yeah, they did.
They did.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
They did what.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I called my husband and I said, this is bizarre.
I said, check the roof. I think something fell out
of a plane. And he went up on the roof.
No fence, all of you guys, but you don't send
mental goal look at something. They opened the refrigerator. They
can't find anything that was right there. He went up.
I think he opened the door and goes, no, nothing here,
and that was the patio. The roof was up another
you know, you had to go up the but even
(16:16):
still so I got up because I knew he probably
didn't look. You know, it just was too loud to
not have hit our house, and when I went up
to the next level, you know, I didn't see anything.
But then my sister in law called from Florida saying
she had been trying to reach us that a plane
hit the trade center. And I was thinking maybe it
was a piper. You know, I don't think anybody thought
(16:36):
about that.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I think everybody thought it was a Cessna or a
small product plane of some sort.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
But when the second body.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Nobody fathomed it was a jetliner.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
At first, right, the second one confirmed it for everyone.
That was an attack.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
So could you see the could you see it from
the smoke? You see the smoke?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah, I could see the smoke. But I didn't spend
too much time up there. I had my daughter's fifteen
and she went to a school that was about twenty
two blocks from our house, so I wanted to go
and get her. So I have to admit I probably
wouldn't do the same thing today. But I took a
quick shower, and when I went downstairs, it started to
snow black and papers were falling.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
And all the way across the river.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Oh that was just the beginning of it. Yeah, yeah,
that was the beginning of it. And then it was heavily,
heavily covered with snow, black snow. It was all ash
and papers.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
You know, we see all the images of when the
buildings fell and that power plastic cloud of dust rolling
down the streets of Manhattan and the skyscraper.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yes, but I.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Don't think until right now, I've even asked or seen
pictures or been cognizant of even the neighborhoods across the river.
We're being rained on by the fallout.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
But I didn't realize how much had come our way
until I saw a satellite photo and it was covering
Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, and Carroll Gardens. I lived in
Carroll Gardens, so I live.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Their home is in Carroll Garden.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
It was at the time. We were there for about
forty years, and then it became very rich and I
can't afford it, so I moved on. That's like really
a short story there, and we'll leave it there. I
went back up the stairs and I grabbed a bunch
of cloth napkins and got them wet, and I started
to run up to my daughter's school with my husband,
and I remember.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Passing covering your mouth. I guess, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
But I wanted to cover my daughter's mouth, you know.
And I told my husband to put it over his face.
And we passed a man with a baby and I
gave him two and he put them both over his mouth,
and I said, you need to cover the baby's face.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
You passed a dude with the baby and he put
over his mouth.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
I can't judge, you know what. Everybody was totally totally.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Not being found anything for age rider and even considering
that the impact may need to bring it.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yes, but did I tell you my husband cooks, so
he's still alive. Okay, so you know you have to
choose your battles. But what happened was then I got
to the school and my daughter, who is hearing a parent,
she felt the building's falling. She felt all of it.
She's hyper sensitive because of the hearing loss. She's hyper sensitive,
and she was inconsolable.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
And she knew it because she felt it.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
She felt it first. And remember there was a bombing
before in the early nineties and she was in that
same school. Now, she didn't feel that one. She was
in the in her library. I think, well, they were
talking about it, like right away. The technology was such
at that time where they could pull it right up
from the news or whatever. We had parents in the
(19:46):
school that worked down there, so the words spread pretty quickly.
But I remember picking her up. She was quite upset
and handing out the cloth dinner napkins to everybody, all
the kids that were coming in the same area we were.
And I brought her home and as we were going home,
(20:07):
papers were flying my girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Who lived papers, Oh yeah, like full pieces of paper.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
But they looked they looked like they had BB pock
marks all over them and dirt and ash, and my girl.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
All the way across the road.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, landed on our deck. My girlfriend had a lot
on her deck, and she actually had the There was
an evacuation plan in the case of a title a
tsunami for the trade center. I guess blew from the
trade center over to her house and landed on her
deck and her son has that now. She's since passed away.
(20:43):
So yeah, we we were in that that fallout. And
I remember my daughter asking me if we were breathing
in dead people? And I was stunned by her question
and I didn't how was.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
She had fifteen? Are we breathing in dead people?
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah? Knowing that the buildings came just to be in
that place in time where you would have to ask
that question and probably be right. But I don't remember
my answer, and I hope to God I had something
to give her that wasn't oh yeah, we are, you know,
I don't know. I just I remember the question so well.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I mean, you're trying to be tough for your daughter,
but you're in shock too.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
It was the first time in my life I saw
the parents became children in that none of us had answers.
We were all looking for some kind of direction, and
we were scared to death. Everybody was scared because I
thought that they were not done yet. We all did.
And the F fifteen started coming, and we thought that
(21:45):
that was the enemy. Whoever the enemy was, we didn't
know at the time. But the more they came by,
the more everybody was jumping, you know. And that was
for a long time. On beautiful days, New Yorkers were
very skittish because it was a beautiful, especially beautiful day.
So yeah, at fifteen's came by after that, and all
of us would just you know, tense up.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
What was the scene like around your neighborhood? Was everybody
shut in or were people coming out trying to talk
to each other, or people trying to get a look
what you well, that would be interesting riving back from Manhattan.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Oh yeah, Phil covered in dust, like covered you couldn't
make out who they were. It looked like they were
just in like a chimney flu covered in dust.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Some of them they catch on the ferry, I guess
because there were fairies trying to get people.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
There were boats. Yeahs fairies. In fact, my friend Tommy, Uh,
Tommy was one of the guys that was a pilot
on the ferry. He became a firefighter soon after, and
he has since died of nine eleven cancer. I like
so many, it's over. I think it's four hundred and fifteen,
but we just had another one two days ago, so
I'm not sure. I know it's over four hundred. Additional
(23:00):
to the three p forty three we lost that day.
Of just firefighters, that doesn't include the other first responders
and civilians all too.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
And some of the cancers or as I've grown to
learn from people like meals and other people, that some
of these cancers don't even have names. They are cancers unidentifiable.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
There was one cancer that they said was so rare
that they very rarely saw it, but when they did
see it, it was in miners that had been miners
their whole lives. But they never saw it in the
general population. And that was over ten years ago, and
now it seems that it's more prevalent, I'll put it
that way. But to get back to that day, at
the time, you didn't pay for cable. We had the
(23:43):
trade center and it had the best antenna, so you
didn't have to pay for cable. You got your stations.
You didn't get cable stations, but you know that didn't matter.
So we went to a friend's house who had cable,
and we all sat there and it was about I
would say there were about eight families and our children
and we sat there and the kids went off and
played and we just watched. And I think that was
(24:03):
one of the first things I realized is we're bringing
this into the living room and the kids are seeing
it over and over. And I am old enough to say,
I remember when Kennedy was shot, Yes, the first one.
That's how old I am. And watching they didn't have cartoons,
and that's what I remember the most. But I remember
the funeral procession and how many times did we actually
see Reagan get shot? And how many times did you
(24:25):
see Martin Luther King get shot? It's just a loop.
Nothing came close to the nine to eleven repeated, repeated
shots of what happened. I know that transmission like I
know my mother's voice now, and so to the firefighters,
obviously in the families.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
And that was my question. Your neighborhood had had people
that worked in the World Trade Center had to have fire. So, yeah,
you're watching it on TV, just like I am in Memphis.
You're seeing the same thing on the TV that I
would be seeing in Memphis. You're seeing the same thing
that people in LA would be seeing on the TV.
(25:04):
But we're watching it in horror, but without any personal
connection other than patriotism and things like that. Yeah, you
have like interpersonal connection.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yes, yeah. And we're breathing it in to all of it.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
We were breathingly, breathing in for months.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
People don't realize it was burning until December. It was
burning until December, smoldering burning. So yeah, because the Trade
Center went down about six I think it's six stories.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I thought it was smoldering down there. You're saying it
was burning.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Their boots were melting, the firefighters boots were melting. And yes,
I think you know. After a couple of months it
was smoldering, but they didn't The fires did not go
out until December. So I do remember of that day.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Which means everybody up there was just sucking that in
all day long.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah, or until May when they close the site. So
you know, as I'm sure you've heard certainly from Tim,
you know that it started out as a pile. They
called it the pile. They're going to the pile, and
then it became the pit. And yeah, but that smell
is I'll never forget the smell.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
We'll be right back. I know this sounds stupid, but
I played a lot of football, and if you get
(26:47):
your bell rung, anybody who's boxed or played football, I've
done both, and get your bell rung, which means I
have my bell wrung a lot, which is one of
the reasons why I'm deaf on my right here, by
the way. But when you get a shot, if you
ever took a luminum foil and bit down on it,
you get that taste in your mouth when you get
(27:09):
a real nogging shot. All right, it's the only way
I can explain to my wife what you taste when
you get a concussion. It's just bite a luminum fool,
That's what it tastes on.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
That's fascinating.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Do you have a comparison like that for what that
smell and that atmosphere was death? It is death. You
could smell death.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
That's for me. It probably came to symbolize death. But
for me, if I smell that, I'm going to be
smelling death, and the association is probably it's a psychological thing, right,
it's you know, when I was breathing in that day,
I don't think I was consciously saying what my daughter said,
am I breathing in somebody that's dead? But to me
(27:55):
that the memory that day is death. You know, it
symbolizes death.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Which that same association means the firefighters who were there
after the fact doing all the work are literally breathing
in their brother's staff. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah, So it was like a combination of rubber and
burned eggs and burned eggs just the weirdest company to
not think about it. It wasn't your typical fire. It
wasn't like a chemical fire as opposed to a wood fire,
as opposed to fire. It was everything. It was garland
stoves from the restaurant pulverized into dust. It was sheet
(28:33):
rock pulverized, it was people pulverized. So it was it
was really a concoction of toxins.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
So kind of burned rubber, burned eggs and molten steel
stench all blinded.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yeah, just death. I mean, that's I can't. I wish
I could pritify it, but I can't.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
You know, I mean that I think for our listeners
to fathom that the day was bad, but that stench,
that smell lingered.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
For months, months, absolutely months. And it was interesting because
later in the I guess the next month because I
pretty much dayed close to home, helping the local firehouses
to the best of my ability, and I went to
the Upper east Side for something, god knows what. I
don't go up there very often, but I did, and
it smelled like Chanelle number five. It didn't smell like
(29:22):
the sight at all at all, and so iza, yeah,
it was. It was. It was a weird that kind
of mean. You know, I'll tell you what really struck
me is it was someone and I don't want to
make light of this, but I probably it'll sound like
I am the woman who was distraught. Everyone was distraught,
but this woman was over the top distraught and I
(29:46):
thought her spouse or child was in the building. She
was literally hysterical, and it turned out she was watching
it on TV. She might as well have been in Memphis.
She was on the Upper East Side. She couldn't smell it.
It was, there was no but it resonated for the
reason I think it resonated with everybody in the world,
and the fact that it was on the island that
(30:07):
she was on. Maybe that was it. But everyone took
it in different ways. And I think that's true for
the firefighters as well. There were firefighters that I would
say the majority of them, they wanted to be on
the pile every single day, all day, and a lot
of them were They had to be pulled off to
take a four hour nap.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
You were probably the tenth person I've interviewed that has
some correlation and what they do now to it, and
every single one of you say that that is one
of the constant stories, is that you almost couldn't drag
those guys off that way.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
You couldn't and I know had not quit and they
had broke. There was I know two that had broken
bones and they were they would not go get them set.
They were not leaving, and they would They actually said
it felt good because they knew their brothers were in
the pile, and for them it was I don't know
how you would categorize that, but that was their normal
(30:59):
back then, and I actually understand it. Sounds strange, but
I do understand it. So I one of the so
I told you, I grew up in a party house
and one of the guys that I loved the most
was my brother's friend, Kevin, and Kevin became a brother
to me. He was about eight years older. And if
it's younger and he sees this, I'll let me know.
But he was about eight years older, just assault of
(31:21):
the earth guy, nicest guy I ever met. And he's
a lieutenant in a firehouse in the Bronx and I
didn't know if he made it out until I think
it was Wednesday night when his wife called and said
that he was alive. So a lot of this was
driven from knowing that Kevin was alive. Now what and
she said, go to your local house and see what
they need.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
That's it. Well, see this is where opportunity collided with
what became a passion. So great job setting it up
for us. If you're listening to this and you don't understand, now,
I don't know how to help you understand any better
what the reality was for the folks who lived in
and around Manhattan. But a wife of a dear friend,
(32:02):
as a brother or says something this simple. Go to
a firehouse and say what they need. Not here's an organization,
not do this. Walk in the door, see what they need.
And that was the beginning.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
That was the beginning. That was the pre beginning.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
So I went to a local firehouse which was engined
two A four, which is now closed. And that's another
thing I just won't talk about because closing firehouses is insane,
but they did. I went there and they said, we
didn't lose anybody here, and I came to find out
later on that every firefighter lost somebody. They lost somebody,
but they meant no one that is assigned to this
(32:42):
house died, and I found that out later on. So
I walked and it was funny because I'd never that interesting.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
That the guy said, we don't need anything here, no
one died here. Or go to another one, although everyone
in that house had a friend, a brother, or a
colleague that died.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
I sent you to another, but they didn't tell me
which one. And I just kept walking and I.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Are you kidding?
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yeah, they just kept plodding along. But now this is
where it gets a little. I don't want to be
like woo wooh about it, but I was. I went
to a firehouse I had never been to before, even
though there were some in my neighborhood. And I just
kept walking. And it was past my daughter's school, so
it was like twenty eight blocks or something, and I
(33:26):
landed at two five and one eighteen, which is at
the base of the Brooklyn Bridge on mid Au Street.
And I went in and I met a firefighter, John Sorrentino,
and I said, what do you need? And he goes,
you have paper, and I had a legal pad, which
I still have, and he said, the first thing we
need is bunting for the firehouse. Bunting is the dark
(33:46):
purple and black flag that they drape outside a house
to say we've had a loss in the house. So
when we have a fatal fire, a firefighter goes down
line of duty called bunting. So the second thing he
said is and this was like the day after. I
mean it was like right away, and so he blew
my mind. The second thing he said he needed was
(34:08):
a bugler because one of the guys they lost eight men,
and he knew that they were gone. He said, one
of them is military. We need a bugler at the funerals,
and you know if we ever recovered them, which they
only recovered seven and not until New Year's Day. So
the last thing he said was counselors. And you could
have knocked me over with a feather. So now I'm
(34:29):
going to bounce back to when I was a child.
My mom's uncle was killed line of duty out of
fourteen truck in the Bronx in Upper Manhattan, Harlem, and
so I grew up with a knowledge that the firefighters
were cut above. My mother used to say that before
women came on the job, they were cut above all
men and they don't need Yeah, she'd say, they don't
need anybody's help, you know, they take care of each other.
(34:49):
And I think that was because she knew that. When
her uncle, Maddie died, there was a funeral that you
could see, you know, everybody showed up for that and
that was what before I was born. So there was that,
But what really struck me was that there's no guys
I knew that were open to counseling. It was for weaklings.
(35:12):
It was mandated for the guys that were drinking or
had a drug problem, but they didn't want to willingly
go to counseling.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
And a firehouse. People need to remember, these guys live together, yes,
for three four days at a time, and I mean,
let's be real, a bunch of dudes living in a firehouse,
cooking together. They're talking about everything everything. You don't want
to guess, they talk about everything everything. And these are
(35:41):
men's men, and you know they're busting each other's balls,
they're cussing, they're hanging out. That is not an atmosphere
where someone says, my feelings.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Are hurt Jesus, No, hell no.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
That is why firemen take care of fireman. That is
why that thing comes from. We have each other others back.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
And yes, that's a big part of it, but there's
also they're not very good at taking care of themselves.
They're very good at taking care of other people, they're
not very good at taking care of themselves.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
And it's it's like the it's like the surgeon who
works on cancer patients but smokes two packs cigarettes to day.
It's not that.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah, I'm good, I'm good. Don't worry about me. I'm good.
I'm good.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
But what you said is profound. They're great at taking
care of other people, they're horrible taking care of themselves.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
I stole that from Steve, who sent me, so I
have to give.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Credit credit for get it.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yeah, and he hit the nail on the head because
and so.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
When this guy said we need counselors, you must.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
I was stunned in the face. I was stunned.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
And that concludes part one of my conversation with Nancy Carbone,
and you don't want to miss part two that's now
available to listen to. Together, guys, we can change this country.
What it starts with you. I'll see in part two.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
The
I went to a firehouse I had never been to before,
and I went in and I met a firefighter, John Sorrentino,
and I said, what do you need? And he goes,
you have paper, and I had a legal pad, which
I still have, and he said, the first thing we
need is bunting for the firehouse. Bunting is the dark
purple and black flag that they drape outside a house
(00:22):
to say we've had a loss in the house. And
they had a set of three for bunting for the
entire firehouse, Frior department rather and they lost three hundred
and forty three men, so you can imagine that, you know,
they needed bunting. So the second thing he said is
and this was like the day after, I mean it
was like right away, and so he blew my mind.
The second thing he said he needed was a bugler
(00:45):
because one of the guys they lost eight men, and
he knew that they were gone, said one of them
is military. We need a bugler at the funerals, and
you know if we ever recovered them. The last thing
he said was counselors. And you could have knocked me
over with a feather.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
So did you go to work.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yes, welcome to an army of normal votes. I'm Bill Courtney.
I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,
I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been an inner city football
coach in Memphis. And the last part, well, it led
somehow to a film about our team that won the Oscar.
(01:23):
That movie is called Undefeated. I believe our country's problems
are never going to be solved by a bunch of
fancy people and nice suits using big words that nobody
understands on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army
of normal folks. That's us, just you and me deciding Hey,
you know what, maybe I can help. That's what Nancy Carbone,
(01:45):
the voice you just heard, has done. After Black snow
rained it down on her on nine to eleven, Nancy
knocked on the door of a local firehouse to simply say, Hey,
how can I help? And when several firef told her
that they'd need counseling, this non therapist and normal mom,
(02:06):
well she got to work. Twenty four years later, Friends
of Firefighters has provided over one thousand firefighters and their
families with mental health and wellness services at no cost.
And I can't wait for you to meet Nancy right
after these brief messages from our general sponsors. Nancy Carbone,
(02:47):
welcome to mephis thank you. Flewent from desclined from LaGuardia.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yes, I did Delta, Yes, NonStop and come on, it
has to be NonStop.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Well short, we don't get it. We used to have
a hub here. We were in Northwest Hub and we
had non stops everywhere, and then when Delta bault Northwest,
they yanked out probably eighty percent of our non stops
and so I suffer with connections. New Yorkers don't suffer.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
With I'm sorry to hear that you do, but I
did not. I watched part one of one of your podcasts,
and before we got to part two, it was time
to put our electronic equipment away. So it was great, awesome.
So clearly you're from New York everybody. Nancy Carbone is
the founder and executive director of Friends for Firefighters, which
(03:38):
has nine eleven UKs.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
What's that? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:41):
What friends of UB?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Did I write it wrong? No? I think I said
it wrong. Friends of Firefighters?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Right?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Right?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Friends? For see what I tell you, pliat, you couldn't
have corrected me. We have to have a producer.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
I'm not going to because so stupid.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Correct me for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I definitely will.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
You just gave me the go out of New York woman.
You don't have any fear to correct it? A god.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I don't have fear, but I have manners.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Oh well that's good. Hi. So, founder and executive director
of Friends of Firefighters, A New York guy through and
through in terms of what I guess the last twenty
five years of her life have been so far. But
I am curious where you from?
Speaker 1 (04:23):
How'd you grow up from New York? Born in Born
in Flushing, New York, and then we moved to the
Island when I was about two years old, so I'm
from Long Island originally.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
What'd your parents did?
Speaker 1 (04:35):
My dad was a custodial engineer and my mom was
chasing kids all day until I was about junior high school,
and then she became an EG technician.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
How many of you are there?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I have six siblings, but my aunt and uncle were
raised with us as well. Your aunt uncle what were
raised with us as well? So they were in and
out nine cares?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Your mom dealt with nine holy smokes? How did your
dad make enough money to house clothe and feed that crew.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
He worked several jobs. He worked really hard, he really did.
He worked hard and it was tight. It was tight,
and I think that that adds to our character. We're
pretty tough group. You know. We didn't get everything we wanted,
but we got what we needed.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
So what's it like? I don't want to ask you
what's it like at that time of life growing up
in New York City. I mean that had to have
been interesting, exciting fun. Maybe you didn't know any different.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Hell no, it wasn't exciting. I was on Long Island.
Our house was built on a potato field. There was
no exciting. You know, it was exciting. I had a
stingray with a banana seat. That was exciting. That was exciting. Yes, yes,
I actually have one now. But back then we would play,
you know, and where they were building houses, we would
(06:02):
make what do you call it ramps and jump off
of those and that was exciting. But I left the
city when I was two. My parents took us out
to the island and it was we made our own fun.
Our house was the party house, and that that was
later on when I was a teenager. That was a
lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Well did you I mean, did you get to venture
end of the city as a kid?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah, yeah, as a teenager, not as a younger child,
I say, yeah, teenager. Well, I mean I remember going
to the Statue of Liberty when I was like seven,
and I've lived in the city for over forty years
and I've not gone back, so you know, I will.
I've brought people. Yeah, I checked the box a long
time ago.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
So like as an eighteen, nineteen twenty year old coming up, Yeah,
you had the city, Yes, we had this to go sets.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, but I also sewed my oats in Plattsburgh, which
is close to the Canadian border.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
So my sister.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
It's a college that my sisters and brother went to
and it was a great party town. So I went there.
I was in a band, and I was in a
band there, and so we would play in the neighboring
areas and it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
What did did we vocals or Yeah, you were in
a band, yes, sir, hanging around in New York in college. Yeah,
what years were these?
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Oh really, we're going there? Seventy Well I started singing
when I was about thirteen, so that would be seventy
two three. Yeah, yeah, you heard that.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Guys, and then through the early eighties.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I had my first in eighty two. I had my
second child in eighty six, and I stopped for a while,
and then in ninety two I started in another band.
But I haven't done it in a while. Now I
just do it here and there.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
That is so cool.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, yeah, not a lot of people know that. I
don't even think. I don't think any of the firefighters
know that. Well, they will now I guess they will. Yeah,
they might.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And now they're going to make you sing what kind.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Of No, it was going to make me sing? Just
put a mic in front of me, and I'm comfortable.
I loved doing blues and swing and things like that.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
You're in the cradle of it. I know. Roads is
only an hour south here.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
You know, I'm not going to the crossroads. So my
life is up enough. I am not going to the
cross roads. Yeah. But the fact that you know what
the cross from, no, sir, No, sir, no, that is
I'm not making any deals with anybody for anything.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
That is so cool. So you had kids, so I
assume you had a husband somewhere.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Fifty two years. Yeah, I've been with my husband for
what it was been married forty five years. Kai k
y E k usual name Kye.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Okay, so that is really a cool background story. But
I mean, you grew up with a whole bunch of kids.
Your parents did what they could to raise you. You
had fun in college? What did you get a degree?
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I did not?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Okay, So you had a lot of fun in college.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Well, you know what it was. It was all about
the music for me, and it wasn't about you know,
I went on later on, but it was at that
time it would have been a waste of money and
time for me to sit in a classroom when I
came in at five am from a gig. It just
wasn't going to It wasn't happening, and I was not
I didn't know how to apply myself at that time.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Fair enough, you know, so whatever. But that's the point
is you grew up in New York one of.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
About eighty it sounds like it, around, and got married,
started having kids, and you have this normal really at
that point, unremarkable normal average life.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Well the point is, yes, what you're doing now.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Is that abnormal?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Okay and remarkable. It's not that different from growing my
kitchen table growing up, you had to be quick, you know.
It was a chaos, right, And my mom's Irish funny
as hell, and so humor is currency in a house
like that. So that's a house too. The humor is currency.
If you're funny, you know, you can kind of skirt around. Also,
(10:06):
chaos is comfortable for me, So when bad things happen,
you know, I don't shrink from that. But keep in mind,
I'm not a first responder.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And I've met some of those barrel chested Irish firemen
and they are absolutely hilarious. They're simply constantly breaking each
other's balls.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
It's the greatest.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
It's the greatest.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
It's the greatest set for a movie.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah, but you don't want the kitchen stuff getting out there.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I get it, all right, we're jumping at so normal person,
have any relatively normal life. Your mom, you're married, you're
leading your life. Yes, you're not out there doing anything
remarkable for society. You're taking care of yourself, your children
and your life. A normal person. Yep, Nancy. One of
(10:58):
the things we say all the time on our show
is that the magic happens, the amazing things in our
culture happens when one's passion and abilities intersect with opportunity.
And what I'm saying is that intersection had not that
(11:20):
collision had not happened yet, but it was about to
and up until the point that that opportunity happened. You're
doing life like all of us, But your story is
also an inspiration to say to all of us who
kind of say we're just leading our normal lives, there's
opportunity always always. So as I understand it, you and
(11:46):
your husband were at home and the windows rattled, and
you thought something broke upstairs or something.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I thought something dropped from a plane on our roof.
Really it was right Where did you live in Brooklyn?
Across the water?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
You and your husband? What were you doing for a living.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
At the time. I was actually I had an interview
that day for a job. I had been out of
work for a little bit due to an injury, so
I was really raring to go back to work. And
I had an interview in Manhattan, which needless to say,
I never went to. And what does your husband do
for He is an art professor and a painter.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Okay, they just got even cooler.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
And a guitar player, of course would and a chef.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Well, okay, and you know, yeah right, does he have
a Renaissance tatto?
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, pretty much, pretty much. He actually does have the
Vitruvian man on his arm.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeahee, I just know that. Okay. So he's an art
professor and artist. Y'all are sitting there and you think
something fell on top of your house. Really your house
rattled that hole?
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Oh yeah, yeah, it was a brown stone brownstone.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
So it's across the water from the Trade Center. And
that was the reverberation, and I called to my husband. Now,
I had gotten in late the night before because I
had gone I brought my son back to school in Vermont.
And an interesting thing I think it's interesting was the
let the night before was a light rain and I
was coming down the West Side Highway and I stopped
(13:23):
at a light right in front of the Trade Center,
and I remember looking up and Leon Russell's song Manhattan,
I can't remember the second part of it, Manhattan Serenade
came on and I was looking up and I remember
looking away up and just thinking I hadn't been up
there since the seventies. And then the light changed and
I went on. I went to sleep and what woke
(13:47):
me up was that that big the boom.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But first,
don't go away. I'm excited to announce our next live interview,
and this time it's in God's Country, Camelot, Oxford, Mississippi,
on August twenty eighth, I'll be interviewing Sparky Reardon, who
is Old missus former Dean of students and was the
(14:19):
dean of students that all miss when I was there,
and he's consequently one of my mentors. I genuinely love
the guy. We'll be interviewing Sparky about his brand new
book titled The Dean Memoirs and Missives, And if you're
in the area, please join us for a fun night.
It will be an opportunity for you to share some
(14:41):
time with one of the wisest and most beloved human
beings on this earth and certainly an icon in the
recent history of the University of Mississippi. For my fellow
Old miss fans, it's the Thursday before our first home
game of the season, and so you out of towners,
you have two good reasons to come to Oxford now
(15:02):
to learn more and to rs VP visit Sparkyreardon dot event,
bright dot com. That's sparkyreardon dot event, Bright dot com.
And I can guarantee you. All I have to do
is say hey, Sparky, how you doing. And then I
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(15:22):
an hour and a half you will be inspired, you
will be entertained, you will laugh, and you will learn.
I hope you'll join us. We'll be right back. It
(15:45):
was a it was a boom, but I think I
read your windows rattled.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
They shook, well there were windows anyway, but yeah, they did.
They did.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
They did what.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I called my husband and I said, this is bizarre.
I said, check the roof. I think something fell out
of a plane. And he went up on the roof.
No fence, all of you guys, but you don't send
mental goal look at something. They opened the refrigerator. They
can't find anything that was right there. He went up.
I think he opened the door and goes, no, nothing here,
and that was the patio. The roof was up another
you know, you had to go up the but even
(16:16):
still so I got up because I knew he probably
didn't look. You know, it just was too loud to
not have hit our house, and when I went up
to the next level, you know, I didn't see anything.
But then my sister in law called from Florida saying
she had been trying to reach us that a plane
hit the trade center. And I was thinking maybe it
was a piper. You know, I don't think anybody thought
(16:36):
about that.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I think everybody thought it was a Cessna or a
small product plane of some sort.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
But when the second body.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Nobody fathomed it was a jetliner.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
At first, right, the second one confirmed it for everyone.
That was an attack.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
So could you see the could you see it from
the smoke? You see the smoke?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah, I could see the smoke. But I didn't spend
too much time up there. I had my daughter's fifteen
and she went to a school that was about twenty
two blocks from our house, so I wanted to go
and get her. So I have to admit I probably
wouldn't do the same thing today. But I took a
quick shower, and when I went downstairs, it started to
snow black and papers were falling.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
And all the way across the river.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Oh that was just the beginning of it. Yeah, yeah,
that was the beginning of it. And then it was heavily,
heavily covered with snow, black snow. It was all ash
and papers.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
You know, we see all the images of when the
buildings fell and that power plastic cloud of dust rolling
down the streets of Manhattan and the skyscraper.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yes, but I.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Don't think until right now, I've even asked or seen
pictures or been cognizant of even the neighborhoods across the river.
We're being rained on by the fallout.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
But I didn't realize how much had come our way
until I saw a satellite photo and it was covering
Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, and Carroll Gardens. I lived in
Carroll Gardens, so I live.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Their home is in Carroll Garden.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
It was at the time. We were there for about
forty years, and then it became very rich and I
can't afford it, so I moved on. That's like really
a short story there, and we'll leave it there. I
went back up the stairs and I grabbed a bunch
of cloth napkins and got them wet, and I started
to run up to my daughter's school with my husband,
and I remember.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Passing covering your mouth. I guess, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
But I wanted to cover my daughter's mouth, you know.
And I told my husband to put it over his face.
And we passed a man with a baby and I
gave him two and he put them both over his mouth,
and I said, you need to cover the baby's face.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
You passed a dude with the baby and he put
over his mouth.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
I can't judge, you know what. Everybody was totally totally.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Not being found anything for age rider and even considering
that the impact may need to bring it.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yes, but did I tell you my husband cooks, so
he's still alive. Okay, so you know you have to
choose your battles. But what happened was then I got
to the school and my daughter, who is hearing a parent,
she felt the building's falling. She felt all of it.
She's hyper sensitive because of the hearing loss. She's hyper sensitive,
and she was inconsolable.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
And she knew it because she felt it.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
She felt it first. And remember there was a bombing
before in the early nineties and she was in that
same school. Now, she didn't feel that one. She was
in the in her library. I think, well, they were
talking about it, like right away. The technology was such
at that time where they could pull it right up
from the news or whatever. We had parents in the
(19:46):
school that worked down there, so the words spread pretty quickly.
But I remember picking her up. She was quite upset
and handing out the cloth dinner napkins to everybody, all
the kids that were coming in the same area we were.
And I brought her home and as we were going home,
(20:07):
papers were flying my girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Who lived papers, Oh yeah, like full pieces of paper.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
But they looked they looked like they had BB pock
marks all over them and dirt and ash, and my girl.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
All the way across the road.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, landed on our deck. My girlfriend had a lot
on her deck, and she actually had the There was
an evacuation plan in the case of a title a
tsunami for the trade center. I guess blew from the
trade center over to her house and landed on her
deck and her son has that now. She's since passed away.
(20:43):
So yeah, we we were in that that fallout. And
I remember my daughter asking me if we were breathing
in dead people? And I was stunned by her question
and I didn't how was.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
She had fifteen? Are we breathing in dead people?
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah? Knowing that the buildings came just to be in
that place in time where you would have to ask
that question and probably be right. But I don't remember
my answer, and I hope to God I had something
to give her that wasn't oh yeah, we are, you know,
I don't know. I just I remember the question so well.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I mean, you're trying to be tough for your daughter,
but you're in shock too.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
It was the first time in my life I saw
the parents became children in that none of us had answers.
We were all looking for some kind of direction, and
we were scared to death. Everybody was scared because I
thought that they were not done yet. We all did.
And the F fifteen started coming, and we thought that
(21:45):
that was the enemy. Whoever the enemy was, we didn't
know at the time. But the more they came by,
the more everybody was jumping, you know. And that was
for a long time. On beautiful days, New Yorkers were
very skittish because it was a beautiful, especially beautiful day.
So yeah, at fifteen's came by after that, and all
of us would just you know, tense up.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
What was the scene like around your neighborhood? Was everybody
shut in or were people coming out trying to talk
to each other, or people trying to get a look
what you well, that would be interesting riving back from Manhattan.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Oh yeah, Phil covered in dust, like covered you couldn't
make out who they were. It looked like they were
just in like a chimney flu covered in dust.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Some of them they catch on the ferry, I guess
because there were fairies trying to get people.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
There were boats. Yeahs fairies. In fact, my friend Tommy, Uh,
Tommy was one of the guys that was a pilot
on the ferry. He became a firefighter soon after, and
he has since died of nine eleven cancer. I like
so many, it's over. I think it's four hundred and fifteen,
but we just had another one two days ago, so
I'm not sure. I know it's over four hundred. Additional
(23:00):
to the three p forty three we lost that day.
Of just firefighters, that doesn't include the other first responders
and civilians all too.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
And some of the cancers or as I've grown to
learn from people like meals and other people, that some
of these cancers don't even have names. They are cancers unidentifiable.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
There was one cancer that they said was so rare
that they very rarely saw it, but when they did
see it, it was in miners that had been miners
their whole lives. But they never saw it in the
general population. And that was over ten years ago, and
now it seems that it's more prevalent, I'll put it
that way. But to get back to that day, at
the time, you didn't pay for cable. We had the
(23:43):
trade center and it had the best antenna, so you
didn't have to pay for cable. You got your stations.
You didn't get cable stations, but you know that didn't matter.
So we went to a friend's house who had cable,
and we all sat there and it was about I
would say there were about eight families and our children
and we sat there and the kids went off and
played and we just watched. And I think that was
(24:03):
one of the first things I realized is we're bringing
this into the living room and the kids are seeing
it over and over. And I am old enough to say,
I remember when Kennedy was shot, Yes, the first one.
That's how old I am. And watching they didn't have cartoons,
and that's what I remember the most. But I remember
the funeral procession and how many times did we actually
see Reagan get shot? And how many times did you
(24:25):
see Martin Luther King get shot? It's just a loop.
Nothing came close to the nine to eleven repeated, repeated
shots of what happened. I know that transmission like I
know my mother's voice now, and so to the firefighters,
obviously in the families.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
And that was my question. Your neighborhood had had people
that worked in the World Trade Center had to have fire. So, yeah,
you're watching it on TV, just like I am in Memphis.
You're seeing the same thing on the TV that I
would be seeing in Memphis. You're seeing the same thing
that people in LA would be seeing on the TV.
(25:04):
But we're watching it in horror, but without any personal
connection other than patriotism and things like that. Yeah, you
have like interpersonal connection.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yes, yeah. And we're breathing it in to all of it.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
We were breathingly, breathing in for months.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
People don't realize it was burning until December. It was
burning until December, smoldering burning. So yeah, because the Trade
Center went down about six I think it's six stories.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I thought it was smoldering down there. You're saying it
was burning.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Their boots were melting, the firefighters boots were melting. And yes,
I think you know. After a couple of months it
was smoldering, but they didn't The fires did not go
out until December. So I do remember of that day.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Which means everybody up there was just sucking that in
all day long.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah, or until May when they close the site. So
you know, as I'm sure you've heard certainly from Tim,
you know that it started out as a pile. They
called it the pile. They're going to the pile, and
then it became the pit. And yeah, but that smell
is I'll never forget the smell.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
We'll be right back. I know this sounds stupid, but
I played a lot of football, and if you get
(26:47):
your bell rung, anybody who's boxed or played football, I've
done both, and get your bell rung, which means I
have my bell wrung a lot, which is one of
the reasons why I'm deaf on my right here, by
the way. But when you get a shot, if you
ever took a luminum foil and bit down on it,
you get that taste in your mouth when you get
(27:09):
a real nogging shot. All right, it's the only way
I can explain to my wife what you taste when
you get a concussion. It's just bite a luminum fool,
That's what it tastes on.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
That's fascinating.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Do you have a comparison like that for what that
smell and that atmosphere was death? It is death. You
could smell death.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
That's for me. It probably came to symbolize death. But
for me, if I smell that, I'm going to be
smelling death, and the association is probably it's a psychological thing, right,
it's you know, when I was breathing in that day,
I don't think I was consciously saying what my daughter said,
am I breathing in somebody that's dead? But to me
(27:55):
that the memory that day is death. You know, it
symbolizes death.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Which that same association means the firefighters who were there
after the fact doing all the work are literally breathing
in their brother's staff. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah, So it was like a combination of rubber and
burned eggs and burned eggs just the weirdest company to
not think about it. It wasn't your typical fire. It
wasn't like a chemical fire as opposed to a wood fire,
as opposed to fire. It was everything. It was garland
stoves from the restaurant pulverized into dust. It was sheet
(28:33):
rock pulverized, it was people pulverized. So it was it
was really a concoction of toxins.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
So kind of burned rubber, burned eggs and molten steel
stench all blinded.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yeah, just death. I mean, that's I can't. I wish
I could pritify it, but I can't.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
You know, I mean that I think for our listeners
to fathom that the day was bad, but that stench,
that smell lingered.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
For months, months, absolutely months. And it was interesting because
later in the I guess the next month because I
pretty much dayed close to home, helping the local firehouses
to the best of my ability, and I went to
the Upper east Side for something, god knows what. I
don't go up there very often, but I did, and
it smelled like Chanelle number five. It didn't smell like
(29:22):
the sight at all at all, and so iza, yeah,
it was. It was. It was a weird that kind
of mean. You know, I'll tell you what really struck
me is it was someone and I don't want to
make light of this, but I probably it'll sound like
I am the woman who was distraught. Everyone was distraught,
but this woman was over the top distraught and I
(29:46):
thought her spouse or child was in the building. She
was literally hysterical, and it turned out she was watching
it on TV. She might as well have been in Memphis.
She was on the Upper East Side. She couldn't smell it.
It was, there was no but it resonated for the
reason I think it resonated with everybody in the world,
and the fact that it was on the island that
(30:07):
she was on. Maybe that was it. But everyone took
it in different ways. And I think that's true for
the firefighters as well. There were firefighters that I would
say the majority of them, they wanted to be on
the pile every single day, all day, and a lot
of them were They had to be pulled off to
take a four hour nap.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
You were probably the tenth person I've interviewed that has
some correlation and what they do now to it, and
every single one of you say that that is one
of the constant stories, is that you almost couldn't drag
those guys off that way.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
You couldn't and I know had not quit and they
had broke. There was I know two that had broken
bones and they were they would not go get them set.
They were not leaving, and they would They actually said
it felt good because they knew their brothers were in
the pile, and for them it was I don't know
how you would categorize that, but that was their normal
(30:59):
back then, and I actually understand it. Sounds strange, but
I do understand it. So I one of the so
I told you, I grew up in a party house
and one of the guys that I loved the most
was my brother's friend, Kevin, and Kevin became a brother
to me. He was about eight years older. And if
it's younger and he sees this, I'll let me know.
But he was about eight years older, just assault of
(31:21):
the earth guy, nicest guy I ever met. And he's
a lieutenant in a firehouse in the Bronx and I
didn't know if he made it out until I think
it was Wednesday night when his wife called and said
that he was alive. So a lot of this was
driven from knowing that Kevin was alive. Now what and
she said, go to your local house and see what
they need.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
That's it. Well, see this is where opportunity collided with
what became a passion. So great job setting it up
for us. If you're listening to this and you don't understand, now,
I don't know how to help you understand any better
what the reality was for the folks who lived in
and around Manhattan. But a wife of a dear friend,
(32:02):
as a brother or says something this simple. Go to
a firehouse and say what they need. Not here's an organization,
not do this. Walk in the door, see what they need.
And that was the beginning.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
That was the beginning. That was the pre beginning.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
So I went to a local firehouse which was engined
two A four, which is now closed. And that's another
thing I just won't talk about because closing firehouses is insane,
but they did. I went there and they said, we
didn't lose anybody here, and I came to find out
later on that every firefighter lost somebody. They lost somebody,
but they meant no one that is assigned to this
(32:42):
house died, and I found that out later on. So
I walked and it was funny because I'd never that interesting.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
That the guy said, we don't need anything here, no
one died here. Or go to another one, although everyone
in that house had a friend, a brother, or a
colleague that died.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
I sent you to another, but they didn't tell me
which one. And I just kept walking and I.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Are you kidding?
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yeah, they just kept plodding along. But now this is
where it gets a little. I don't want to be
like woo wooh about it, but I was. I went
to a firehouse I had never been to before, even
though there were some in my neighborhood. And I just
kept walking. And it was past my daughter's school, so
it was like twenty eight blocks or something, and I
(33:26):
landed at two five and one eighteen, which is at
the base of the Brooklyn Bridge on mid Au Street.
And I went in and I met a firefighter, John Sorrentino,
and I said, what do you need? And he goes,
you have paper, and I had a legal pad, which
I still have, and he said, the first thing we
need is bunting for the firehouse. Bunting is the dark
(33:46):
purple and black flag that they drape outside a house
to say we've had a loss in the house. So
when we have a fatal fire, a firefighter goes down
line of duty called bunting. So the second thing he
said is and this was like the day after. I
mean it was like right away, and so he blew
my mind. The second thing he said he needed was
(34:08):
a bugler because one of the guys they lost eight men,
and he knew that they were gone. He said, one
of them is military. We need a bugler at the funerals,
and you know if we ever recovered them, which they
only recovered seven and not until New Year's Day. So
the last thing he said was counselors. And you could
have knocked me over with a feather. So now I'm
(34:29):
going to bounce back to when I was a child.
My mom's uncle was killed line of duty out of
fourteen truck in the Bronx in Upper Manhattan, Harlem, and
so I grew up with a knowledge that the firefighters
were cut above. My mother used to say that before
women came on the job, they were cut above all
men and they don't need Yeah, she'd say, they don't
need anybody's help, you know, they take care of each other.
(34:49):
And I think that was because she knew that. When
her uncle, Maddie died, there was a funeral that you
could see, you know, everybody showed up for that and
that was what before I was born. So there was that,
But what really struck me was that there's no guys
I knew that were open to counseling. It was for weaklings.
(35:12):
It was mandated for the guys that were drinking or
had a drug problem, but they didn't want to willingly
go to counseling.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
And a firehouse. People need to remember, these guys live together, yes,
for three four days at a time, and I mean,
let's be real, a bunch of dudes living in a firehouse,
cooking together. They're talking about everything everything. You don't want
to guess, they talk about everything everything. And these are
(35:41):
men's men, and you know they're busting each other's balls,
they're cussing, they're hanging out. That is not an atmosphere
where someone says, my feelings.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Are hurt Jesus, No, hell no.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
That is why firemen take care of fireman. That is
why that thing comes from. We have each other others back.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
And yes, that's a big part of it, but there's
also they're not very good at taking care of themselves.
They're very good at taking care of other people, they're
not very good at taking care of themselves.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
And it's it's like the it's like the surgeon who
works on cancer patients but smokes two packs cigarettes to day.
It's not that.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah, I'm good, I'm good. Don't worry about me. I'm good.
I'm good.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
But what you said is profound. They're great at taking
care of other people, they're horrible taking care of themselves.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
I stole that from Steve, who sent me, so I
have to give.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Credit credit for get it.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yeah, and he hit the nail on the head because
and so.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
When this guy said we need counselors, you must.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
I was stunned in the face. I was stunned.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
And that concludes part one of my conversation with Nancy Carbone,
and you don't want to miss part two that's now
available to listen to. Together, guys, we can change this country.
What it starts with you. I'll see in part two.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
The
Host
Bill Courtney
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