July 2, 2024 • 45 mins
And his goal is 1 million kids. But none of this would’ve happened if a high school teacher didn’t make the effort to teach Orrin chess and show him a better path than his gang life.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You got to get in the game. I'm Orange C. Hudson.
It's time for a change and make the right moves
in this game called life. Think before you move and
always be nice. And when the game get tough and
times get rough, never give up because we're more than enough.
Practice every day, duck correct way, always better your best
before you play. We got to get in the game.
Get in the game. Say it, and they say, get
in the game. Get in the game. Get your head
(00:22):
in the game, heading the game. Say it, head in
the game, heading the game. Stay in the game, stay
in the game. Say it. Stay in the game, Stay
in the game. Get on top of your game, top
of your game, top of your game. What game? What game?
The game or life? The game or life. Chance is
more than a game. If the test you can pass,
pay attention and learn from mistakes in the past. Everybody
from Winder when you know the truth, it's all about
(00:44):
learning and you are living proof. Dropping a demo on
today's youth. I'm just like you. There's nothing we can't do.
Be willing to make mistakes and times you get better.
Do whatever it takes. Back down, never get in the game,
and don't be afraid. We all created equal black and
white shades. Whichever way you may, we all breathe the same,
we all need the same, So please get in the game.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yay, that's something right there.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Now, Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.
I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, a father, an entrepreneur,
and I've been a football coach in inner city Memphis.
And that last part it somehow led to an oscar
(01:31):
for the film about our team, it's called Undefeated. I
believe our country's problems will never be solved by a
bunch of fancy people in nice suits using big words
that nobody ever understands on CNN and Fox, but rather
by an army of normal folks, US, just you and
me deciding, Hey, you know what, maybe I can help.
(01:56):
That's what Orange checkmate Hudson, the voice we just heard
is done. But he might not be in the rapping
game or any other game if it weren't for his teacher,
who taught him chess and showed him a better way
than his game. Orn became the first African American to
defeat the Alabama state champion in chess and has since
(02:18):
taught chess to over one hundred thousand kids. I cannot
wait for you to meet Orrin right after these brief
messages from ours unner sponsors Arn Hudson, how are you man?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
In best day in my life I get to hang
out with you might is that a movie coaching kids?
You know you got me. I'm all in. I knew
you had me when I seen you coaching those kids.
Y'all it was down and you came back. You're my
type of guy, beating the odds. I love people who
can help people beat the odds.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Or if this thing you do now doesn't work out,
maybe you should be a publicist because you just threw
me out there and I appreciate that. Or but you're
the man, and I cannot wait when well. First of all,
shout out to a listener of ours named Bill Maddox.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Do you know who Bill Maddocks or Bill Mannix? I
love Bill Mannix and you need to try to recruit
him to be a part of your team because he
is not only is he a good person, he's a
great communicator. He can write stuff that will make people.
It's better to send him to Hawaii than to go
for yourself, because when he write about it, you can
feel the water flapping on your feet.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Well, Bill Maddocks, who I don't know, we at the
end of every episode, as all of our regular listeners
will know, you know, we invite people to tell us
about extraordinary people in their community that we don't know
about doing extraordinary things. And Bill Maddox wrote us about you.
We are getting innundated with these and that does not
(04:15):
mean we want them to stop. Alex will peel through
all of them. But Bill wrote and told me about
this guy named Orrin Checkmate Hudson and who was a
guy who grew up in the inner city and was
coaching chess inner city kids. And the reason I immediately
(04:36):
called Alex and said figure this one out is and
get him here Orn is because chess had a significant
impact on my life as a kid. Wow, and this
is about you. But I'm going to share this to
give people perspective as to how vested I am in
(04:57):
your story. Most people, well not most people. A lot
of people know this, but my dad left home when
I was four, MoMA was married, divorced five times, and
the only mentors I had in my life were my
coaches and my freshman year I was playing football, and
I hurt hurt my shoulder, and that kind of killed
(05:20):
fall for me. There was no way I was going
to play. And yeah, I was just kind of getting
ready for basketball season, frankly. And my favorite teacher was
my math teacher and his name was Dale Flickinger. I
want you to imagine a guy with coke bottle glasses,
but big, like six two two fifty with coke bottle
(05:41):
glasses and kind of curlyish hair and a math teacher.
You think you know what you're looking at. Well, as
I got to know him more, I found out he
was a drummer and a rock band. He played the
piano in his church. He started at center for his
high school football team in mine at North Dakota and
they lost one game in four years. And he was
(06:03):
a master in chess, and he started a chess team
and chess club at the school. And he said, man,
you don't have anything to do this fall, why don't
you join the chess club. Hang out and we'll teach
a chess. And I'm like chess for geeks. I'm a football, basketball,
baseball guy. I ain't playing no chess. That's what is that?
All my friends are going to think I'm crazy.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
And.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Little by little he drew me in and my freshman
year I ended up winning the state championship for the
novice division, and by my senior year, all of the
guys and girls that were on the team went to
the nationals in Philadelphia and our school team place third.
(06:47):
What I was exposed to as a result of chess
was analytical thinking, creativity, patience, not being impulsive and going
with your first reaction. It taught me to be analytical.
It grew my mind, and then socially it had an
(07:07):
effect on me because I'm from Memphis and everybody I
was playing chess with were white private school kids and
a few Asians. And when I went to the national championship,
there were these teams from New York, all these black
kids from intercity schools, and they were thumping folks and
I'm talking about they were so much better than we were,
(07:30):
And it also opened my mind. Chess played a really
big role in my most formative years, and I will
still I haven't played USCF chess. It's it's still us. Yeah,
I haven't played USCF chess since oh my gosh, I
mean probably nineteen eighty eight, nineteen eighty nine, but I
(07:53):
will still on occasion, if I got a twenty dollars
bill in my pocket at a minute, will stop by
in the New York Paul or on the sidewalks in
New Orleans and put the twenty down there and play
a five game to a five minute speed game. And
I went more than I lose, and you know, I
still love it. And when I'm bored to death on
(08:13):
adulta flight, I'll play the computer chess. I'm not I
haven't studied openings or middle games or closings in two decades.
I'm not good. But you know I got to where
I could play a little bit and it was so
important to me. It became a really big part of
(08:34):
my life. So I want to say that to you
before we start your story, because I want you to
know I feel you, I appreciate you, and I feel
what you're.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Doing, and I feel what you've done with the kid
of the football and how you didn't give up and
how you showed up at people houses. That's just really remarkable.
That shows that you have a passion to make a difference,
and we are Kendrick souls, and that I believe in
what you believe in and helping the young people and
helping at least the lass and the loss.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
I love that, but we got to get to why
you're doing it, where you came from, and how you're
doing it. So we're going to start at the beginning.
One other thing chess made me a far better football coach.
The analytics. The pattern recognition. Yeah, the absolutely pattern recognition.
The looking at a situation that you didn't expect and
(09:26):
having to analyze it quickly and figure out the next move.
There's a big difference in chess and football though, because
when you tell a chess piece to move someoneen, you
tell your rook to move up a file, or you
tell your night to take its move, it's going to
do it. In football, you do. You may tell them
(09:47):
to make the right and they do what they would
to do, They do what they want to do. So
you know, in that regard, chess is a lot more
static than football. But it still made me all right orn.
So that's a background, long winded background, and I shouldn't
talk so much about myself, but I really want you
to know why I was so excited to see you.
(10:08):
So you grew up in the Birmingham area. Tell me
about your childhood.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Well, you know, my mom had thirteen children. I'm seven,
I'm number seven, So I was a middle child, and
I remember us staying in the housing projects in Birmingham
and it was like sardines. Have you ever seen startinges
in the can?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
That's how I've seen.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
When you got a three bedroom and you got thirteen children,
there's you know, five people in a room. So, uh,
my brother woke up in a nightmare and hit me
a couple of times. It was that many. It was
that many people in the bed. But uh, I never
forget that. But yeah, it was a it was a
it was a packed house. And I was in and
(10:51):
out of foster homes because the State of Alabama took
we had too mama, I had too many children, and
so they took four or five of us and put
us in foster care. So I was in foster care
and sell my Alabama and you know, went through a
phase where it really was a blessing because when I
(11:13):
went to foster care, I had a white foster pearance
and I went to a predominantly mostly white school and
it really kind of gave me a different outlook and
perspective versus the hood. I was from the hood in
Birmingham Avenue housing projects. And when I went to sell
(11:36):
mall and had these gave me a different perspective and
was able to see things in a different way. And
then I later got out of foster care, went back
home and I was in a gang. I was following
the follower. I was with these kids and they would
say do this. I would do it. They said do this,
and I would do it. And James Edge, a white
(11:57):
teacher in all black high school, which was Hayes High
schooled me to the side and said, listen, you following
the follower. I'm gonna teach you how to think independently
and how to think for yourself. I said, well, how
are you gonna do that. He said, I'm gonna teach
you chess. I said, no, no, no, I'm a checker.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Guru, he said. He said, Checkers, you're using half of
the board. He said, Chance, you're using every single square
on the board. He said, Checkers is all me. And
he said, Chess, the female is the most powerful piece
on the board. I said to him, let's get on
with the classes. Not only did he play the female
(12:35):
card on me, but he played the female card from
the bottom of a debt, and I was hooked like
a book.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
I have a question. I think I remember reading the
Checkers is solved And in big time checkers tournaments, when
you sit down to the board, they actually have predetermined
the first five moves for each side, because a great
checkers player will know after the first move who's gonna win.
(13:04):
Have you ever heard that?
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Never heard that, But I do know that check checkers,
you're using half of the board, and so it's not
and every piece moves the same, every piece moveth is saying,
and life is not every piece of the same. Everybody
is complicated, and there's sometimes to get to your goals,
there's not a straight line. And so that's what I
teach young people. I teach people sometimes you got to
go up, over and to the left because everything, all
(13:29):
your goals is not gonna be a straight line. It's
not gonna be cut and dry.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
You have a lot of cool little sayings. You just
dropped the first one on do it again? What was it?
What did you just say?
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Pattern recognition?
Speaker 3 (13:42):
You had a euphemism you just used. You said, what
do you say?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Everything is not the same? You have different, you got
different you know everything moves to different. You gotta go
up and over and to the left, and that your
success is not a straight line. That you have to
you got to you got to be flexible with your
with your goals, and you got to be willing to
think it through. Impulsivity will take you out. Don't do
the first thing that pops in your head.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Which is you using the game of chust to teach lifeless.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Teaching young people life lessons. How to wake up winning?
How do you wake up winning? You? You make sure
the moves you make add value to others because what
you do comes back multiply to you. And you got
the pause, you got the ponnah, You got to pivot,
You got to pray, proceed and then you prosper. But
if you do the first thing that pops in your head,
(14:32):
your first crack could be a whack and you can't
take it back. So think before you act.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Okay, that thing you just did that, Pause, pivot, do
that again.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Pause, pontna, pivot, pray, proceed, prosper six magic words why.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
And then you did the other one right behind it.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Don't do the first thing that pops in your head.
Your first crack could be a whack and you can't
take it back. So think before you act.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I think that stuff that you just did right there,
That's what I'm saying. What would you would you call
those colloquy? What would you call that?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Alex, Yeah, I was on I was CBS News Atlanta.
Came out into the story on me and said, oh
my god, this is amazing. So she went back to
the studio and said, this dude is This dude made
my job easy. So they came make out about eight
times and did it. It kept doing because I was
making a job easy because I love what I do,
(15:34):
and teaching the children makes my heart sing. And I
teach the children as though my life depends on them
because I owe my life to James Edge, because if
it wasn't for him, I wouldn't even be alive because
I was making some bad moves.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
So we're gonna go back to chronologically to get to
what we're talking about now. But it's funny. I don't
know if you know. The guy that wrote Rude off
the Red Nose Reindeer was a chess player. Don't remember
his name, but he did a lot of those things
that you just did as sayings. And one of my
favorite was watch your step, but don't step on your watch.
(16:09):
And he did a lot of those kind of sayings
and you've got a ton of them. So spoiler alert,
Orange's going to drop a whole lot of old fashioned
wisdom on you in the form of jingles and phrases.
And I don't know it's it's hilarious, all right. So
that your teacher, the white teacher you said that was
(16:29):
in your school.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
His name James VG.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Okay, somehow he decided to pick you.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Well. I asked him about that. He said he got
in trouble when he was my age. Someone helped him
and he was paying it forward. And so I thank
God for James Edge because he took me to the side,
took me over to UAB, introduced me to players that
were much stronger than me. And I were afraid to
go there at first, and he said, listen, he said,
(16:58):
when you go here yet, I ain't gonna beat you up,
but you will get better. And so he taught me
the value of failure. And he told me the failure
was information that you succeed by learning and to make
it okay to fail. So when I went over to
UAB and played those guys. It really I remember being
I remember playing Stuart Rachel. He was on sixty minutes.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
He's very good.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
He's probably the best chess player in Alabama. I remember
playing Stuart Rachel and he gave me his queen on purpose,
and I was so happy, but.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
He beat me.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
He was a setup, he trapped me, and so I
learned early in life that wow, man, people will set
you up. You know, everything that's free is not free.
And he gave me this bait, which was his queen,
but he did it as a way of checkmating me.
So Stuart Rachel was on sixty minutes. He's international master,
he's probably he's a professor at the University of Alabama now.
(17:49):
And so I was able to beat Stuart Rachel's father.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
But not Stuart Racher. No kidding, no, Rachel, dude. Are
usc F ratings still a thing?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's live and well and you
have to be a member, and then you have to
play in tournaments. I played in the World Open and
I played in different tournaments. But my focus is not
about tournaments. My focus is what can I do to
teach young people to make the next move. The best
move Why, Because the moves you made determine the path
you take. A lot of our young people are being incarcerated.
(18:20):
So I'm doing everything I can to stop the celeration
of crime and violence and reduce the school to prison
pipeline because they're going from school to prison. Okay, so
there's so much here to unpick. But where was your dad?
My dad was there, but not there. My daddy had
(18:41):
three jobs, and so my daddy was never home. Now,
my daddy was a generalor in three different three companies,
So my daddy was never home because he had three jobs,
so he he was working. Yeah, my daddy was never there.
But my daddy, and fairness to my dad, he was
(19:01):
there for me. But he was as best he could
because he you know, when he was there, he was
sleep and he had three jobs.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Okay, Well, I I get that you guys didn't have
much money with a dide working three jobs and a
and a mom with.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
My mom never worked thirteen kids. How do you work
with thirteen Yeah? So, but it doesn't feel like you
would be a guy that would join a gang. Why
why did you try the game? It wouldn't it wouldn't
it was I'm gonna be honest with you. It was
mostly stealing food and tires. Food and tires, yeah, we would.
(19:41):
We were not tires, but the inner twos truck inter
twos we were still. We would steal those and sell
them for fifty cents. And we were steal food from
Greg's cookies. So that was It wasn't really a gang
like doing that bad. It was mostly survival. It was
like food and making money. So I was a business
owner where I steal tithes and sell them for fifty cents.
(20:03):
And I look back at my life. The guy who
the white guy who he was selling inner tudes too,
will be give them the fifth cents for everyone. We
steal them out under the trucks. He was getting over
on oh because those attitudes was we're born in fifty centh.
I look back at it now now, Oh, he was
getting over on us.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
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(20:44):
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(21:30):
We'll be right back. So you start playing chess in
(21:50):
high school, all right?
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah, James pulled miss design, taught me chess, and he
started a chess club. So I started running chess there.
But James realized that I was following the follower, and
I was one of the younger guys in the gang,
and they would just say do this, let's do this,
let's steal these, let's do this, and I was basically
following the follower. So he intervened and taught me chesttheart,
(22:13):
teaching me to think for myself. And so that put
a spirit in me to make sure what I'm doing
is a product of my own conclusion and don't just
be a follower.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
All right, So do you go to college?
Speaker 1 (22:25):
No?
Speaker 3 (22:26):
College.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
I rode in college, but had a job opportunity that
I couldn't turn down, and so I left college and
went to take the job. I was offered an assistant
manager for Kenny Shoe Corporation, and I was making good
money at the time. Back then, it was good money,
(22:47):
and I took it. So I walked away from college
that because money was tough in the family. So I
just I did that. And then later I went into
the Air Force, and from the Air Force I went
into the state trooper, and then from state trooper I
started to be someone I mean started no, no, I'm sorry.
From state trooper, I went into Hudson on a sales,
(23:10):
which was a carb business, and then went from carb
business to be someone.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Okay, state trooper. How long seven years you were? You
were such a there's a dichotomy to you that's interesting,
and that people that are incredibly good at chess as
(23:35):
you are, you don't you don't you wouldn't expect them
to also in their professional life be a state trooper
or in the Air Force. It's usually professors and academics
and really really really highly educated folks. You're clearly really smart,
(23:58):
but you're your walk doesn't really parallel a chess master. Well,
let's be tell me about how that dichotomy worked in
your life.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Well, let's be clear. I tell my students all the
time I'm in pre K and what that means is
I'm still learning. And I tell my students all the
time that I've lost more chess games than anyone alive,
and I brag about it because failure is your friend.
Failures information, Failure tells you what to do next. And
so while I'm not that good, I've beat a lot
(24:31):
of famous people in chess because I've to stop.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
I failed. Not to interrupt you, but no, I failed
a lot. Yeah, failing, failing. Learning from failure leads to success,
I get it. But when you beat a lot of
really good players, you are good well chess. I mean,
don't undersell this, because that's I mean. Didn't you beat
the Georgia state champion?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah? Yeah, but here here's the deal. His name is
Stephen behind me.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
But anyway, yeah, I have you just lost right over there?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah I have. But at the same time I tell
my students that I'm in pre k because really, really,
in fairness, I'm working progress and I have my moments.
I beat one of the top rushing grand messers in
the world. Why because his name is Rashid zi Ethnov.
And the reason I and it this time Russian. Yeah,
at this time he had won more tournaments in the
(25:23):
United States than anyway.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
You can google it to come up.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
But the only reason I would beat him is that
I saw an opportunity where I sacrificed the rook for
a pond, which is a five. Gave up five for one.
And people have opportunities all the time, but the purpose
of your life is to seize that moment right then,
right there, because that moment will go away and that
when the opportunity will no longer be there. So I
(25:46):
took advantage of an opportunity. He took the rook and
game over. You can't you can't take it. So sometimes
when people do something, you can't hit back because if
you hit back, the roferee gonna call a foul on you.
So teach my children, don't celebrate into the referees in
this car. And if the referee.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Cars, celebrate to the referees of the car.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
And if the referee car doesn't start, keep your helmet
on to the record, get there, do not you know,
we don't you know, we don't we up twenty points.
We're not gonna celebrate, you know. And the Lanta Facons
was up twenty eight points against the Patriots and they
lost the game. Now if I was a code and
no way, because we don't, we don't celebrate. We gonna
(26:28):
play like we a million points. Always play like you
a million points behind. That way, you won't get complacent,
you won't celebrate, and you'll keep your foot on the pedal.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
And that's life. That's life, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
That's why I tell my studentom in pre k, never never,
never unestimate your opponent. If I'm in pre k, I'm
not gonna I'm never gonna underestimate you. I'm gonna play
like I'm in pre k, and I'm gonna take advantage
of every opportunity, and I'm gonna manage my resources. Chess
is not about chess. Chance is about manager and resources.
The opposite of wealth is not poor, and the opposit
(27:03):
of the wealth is mismanagement and resources poor. As a
reflection of how you manage a resources, you have everything
you need to win the game. You have your mind,
you have your ability, you have your talents, and you
have time. But you have to manage your resources properly.
To have and not to manage properly is not the hair.
Whatever you mis manage, you will lose.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
When I first heard about you, I thought we were
going to talk about your efforts teaching chess to kids
to help them get smarter and find a different thing
to do in their life. That was positive. When I'm
starting to gather real quickly is really it's not about chess.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
It's not about it's less about chess. It's more about character.
They called me the full X guy. What that means is,
I'm gonna give you four times more value than you
give me. When you guys invited me to come in,
I'm gonna do something for the community on me, you know.
And I went over to this peer academy why because
I'm gonna always give you way more than you give me.
That's my brand and that's what I teach children. I
(28:02):
cheat children that you can have anything you want if
you add more value to the next person. Because if
you constantly making the post, constantly making the pother and
walk away when you get ready to make a withdraw.
Your request will never be denied because you gave way
more than you asked for. How long were you a
(28:25):
state trooper? Seven years? Had the joy that I loved it.
I had the blue light, the bad the bulletproof vets.
But everybody I stopped, I treated them like the most
important person in the world. Here's why what you sincerely
desire for others, what happened for you. People don't understand that.
(28:45):
People don't understand it that when you stop that per
that person is you. You're a Georgia State true. Now
was an Alabama state trooper Alabama states.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
All right, Right now, I've got my four kids in
the car and Lisa and they are four, five, six,
and seven, and we're going from Memphis down the Gulf Shores,
Alabama to the beach for the week. All right. I
want you to imagine that, because I've done that, and
about two hours in, I'm ready to jump out the
(29:14):
car window from the kids. Are we there yet? Throwing stuff?
I got a pee and I'm just I've had enough already,
right And so I passed through Birmingham where all that
construction was, you know, and now I'm headed down toward
what's the name of that town, the where you cut
over the Gulf Shores. I'm headed down. I'm about to
(29:35):
go through Foley, okay, all right, And because kids are
driving me crazy, it's a sixty five and I'm doing
eighty four.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
And you light me up nineteen over okay, yeah, and
you light me up. How do you approach me? Well,
first you come to the car. I'm not gonna let
the kids know I'm gonna write to you. I'm not
gonna let them not say I want to talk to
you about something and it's not that bad. Now the
kids think it's cool. You really say that, yeah, yeah,
because I don't want I've never heard that. Well, you
(30:06):
are mean, so I gotta treat you like you mean.
So I'm not gonna let them know I'm gonna write
you a ticket, okay, because I want them to I
want you to feel I want them to feel, you know,
respected by you. So I say it's not that bad.
I just want to talk to you a quick second.
And so now they think, oh, it's cool. So now
when you go back to the kids, you can tell
them if you want. I'm not gonna let them see anything.
(30:26):
I'm not gonna let them see you get so. So
now I painted the picture to them that everything's cool.
They just want to talk to you for a brief
second about something. And so now they don't know what
I'm gonna do. And what I tried to do is
some kind of way I tried to make you win.
I mean, I may write you the ticket or whatever,
but at the end of the day, you're gonna you're
gonna feel good about how I handled it because I
(30:49):
handled it with dignity, respect and honor, and I gave
you the benefit of the doubt. Let me give you
an example when that happened. I gave this guy some
mercy on the ticket. He was going like a hundred
and I think I put eighty eight on him whatever.
He was going on a hundred, and I put like,
because if he goes at the judge want to see him.
She want me towards car. So I bumped it down
so that didn't have to toward car. And I ain't
(31:10):
because you mean. So I said, listen, I'm gonna I'm
gonna save you about two thousand dollars on this transaction.
I could put a hundred, but I'm not gonna do it.
I'm gonna treat you like you mean. I'm gonna put
eighty eight. Let you mail this fine end. Oh man,
thank you. He said wow. He said, what's your name?
I said, I'm Hunting. He said, is your daddy Jeron Hunting?
I said yes. He said, wow. We about to fire
(31:32):
him for drinking on the job. I'm gonna rip his
paperwork up. He ripped my daddy's paperwork up because I
put out good, and good comes back, and that's what
people need to learn. The good happen that really happened.
The good you do comes back to you. So between
me and you, I never seen my daddy drink, and
I really don't believe it. I believe my daddy was
set up by somebody giving him a beer. And he
(31:54):
don't eat. My daddy don't drink, but somebody must have
set him up. He worked at a golf club and
some probably one of the golfers, gave him a beer
and he drunk it and he and they caught him
drinking it and they fired him. But I never know
my daddy to drink. So but anyway, the bottom line
is the guy had my daddy's paperwork on this. They
was gonna find my daddy. They did. He ripped it
up or whatever. My daddy retired, got his retirement check
(32:16):
and everything, because a good deeds never lost. Now, my
daddy had a third grade education, and my daddy taught
me that a good deed is never lost. And that
played out in his life and in my life, and
it benefited him and me both.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Did you ever pull over somebody belligerent and difficult?
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah, yeah, I've throwed over this guy that I knew
that was belligerent. I wrote him a warning ticket. He
took the wanting because it wasn't that bad. He took
the wanting ticket and threw it out the winter on
the ground. I took it back and wrote him a
real ticket. So he learned the hard way. Yeah, I said,
I gave you a warning ticket and you gonna throw
it on the ground in front of me. Now I'm
(32:56):
all right, I'm gonna change it to a real ticket.
Now you're gonna pay it. So, yeah, he was religerer,
but he learned the hard way.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
So even as a trooper, you were still trying to
find ways to serve them well.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
When I worked at Kenny Shoes, I was trained at
the customer's always right. Well, when I went to State
trooper school, they told me the customers always wrong, otherwise
you've got no besiness stopping them. But so in my blood,
I've always tried to make sure that the customer was
always right, and I always tried to treat people better
than I wanted to be treated. And I guarantee you
there are some people out there that I stopped to
(33:31):
go that dude gave me mercy, because that's really what
it's all about. We all are one, that we're connected one.
You know, we all are connected, and I cannot be
without the being to you or what you ought to be.
So we're in the connected.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Oh, I want to go off topics so bad and
talk about police reform with you. We'll be right back.
From your perspective growing up, from your perspective is a
(34:05):
black trooper in Alabama, and from your perspective of what
you do today and the kids that you serve, which
we will get to. There's a real hot topic that
we all are dealing with right now, which is police reform.
And they old reform and das out there that won't
(34:26):
prosecute certain crimes, but that's leading to more and more
petty theft, and many of our countries we're having retailers
like Target and Walgreens shut down because they're literally having
their profits stolen. People are brazen enough to just walk
in the door and take stuff and walk out. So
(34:47):
I completely get on the one side, there should not
be any segment of our population if fears law enforcement.
Law enforcement is paid for by the tax dollars that
we earn, and they are there to protect and serve us,
not to abuse us. But on the other side, we
can't get so soft on crime that then we lose
(35:14):
a civil society. And I'll be honest with you, I'm
really torn on it. From your perspective of your service,
where you come from being a black trooper in Alabama,
what do you think about the situation we're in nationally
as we continue to struggle with this thing.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
I think it goes back to home training and just
always make sure you're giving what you take. I was
in a store in Vegas and a customer stole some
stuff and I'm with you. I'm standing in the officer
and I talk and we both see him. He said,
I'm not going to do anything or because if I
rested this guy, he gonna be back. He going to
(35:55):
be out on the street and he'd be back in
here next day. Still, and I'm like, wow, he actually
let the person steal the stuff and go and because
he said it was it wasn't worth it. So we
got to figure out if he arrested him, he gonna
be back. Aren't even gonna keep him? So why waste
my time? Why waste my time? He gonna be back,
And that's a problem. Shouldn't that guy serve thirty days
(36:17):
or something? That's a big there's a big disconnect, and
that's a big problem. I think we got to go.
I think it starts in the family, and I think
we need to We need a father and a mother
in the home. We got to teach these children how
to respect authority and how they don't abuse the system.
And I think we gotta, we gotta. We need police reform.
(36:39):
We need sensitivity, sensitivity training for the officers. Word officers
can say, listen, uh, let's let's let's do the right thing.
I don't want to shoot and kill nobody who's on arm.
I'm not doing that because it's me. I want to
make sure this address I'm going to, this house is right,
check double check, triple check. Never assume, question everything, Inspect
(37:01):
what you can expect, control what you can control, and
impact everything else. I think we got to figure out
a way to educate the community and if someone steals
some it's got to be a consequence for it. That
is such common sense. Why is that so hard? Just
people don't get it, and a lot of people don't understand.
(37:22):
I was telling Alex a day that a lot of
the children, I was glad to help those children at
Pure Academy because I'm teaching these children that don't do
the first thing that pops in your head. Usually your
first thought is inferior. And we got to think it
through and we got to make sure that we're giving,
not taking. And I tell them all the time that
sometimes you have to set what you're gonna do and
(37:44):
then do the total opposite, because the opposite is probably
the real answer. A gambit, it's a gambuit. Like when
I gave up. I was telling my students at Peer Academy,
I said, I sacrificed two queens in one game. I
sacrificed my course queen, I promoted got another. I took
my pund down. I sacrificed both queens. You can google this,
(38:05):
it's it's on YouTube. I sacrificed two queens to win
the game. And sometimes in life, you got the gammeut
you gotta give up, you gotta give, you gotta give
to get, and oftentimes you got to give up your
your most precious possession to win the game. I learned
this from Magic Johnson. Magic Johnson was playing for the
Los Angeles Lakers and Kareem up du Jabal got hurt
(38:26):
and went out, and the whole team was holding their
head down there with the press, and Magic Johnson said
to them, there's no need to fear. Magic is here
to go. You shut up, rookie, you don't know what
you're talking about. But he said, listen, no defeat. Magic's here.
He scored forty two points, had fifteen rebounds in ten
a cents.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
He did it.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
But they didn't believe him because he was a rookie.
And they said, so sometimes when you sacrifice your most
precious possession, you still can win.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
All right, So why did you leave law enforcement?
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I left law enforcement because I had Hudson Auto Sales.
And when I had Hudson, all of sales, it was
a business, was car business. Or body shop, and I
sold cars and I was making a lot of money,
so it was it was it was an income deal
where I was losing money as a trooper. So I
took my I switched gears and did the Hudson all sales.
(39:18):
And then later seven people were shot on a robbery
in Queens, New York. And that was the turning point
in my life for me to say, you know what,
bad things continue to happen when concerned people failed to
make boss moves. I made a ball smooth and started
to be someone to teach young people to put brains
before bullets.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
All right, So we got to concentrate on that, because
that is the transition to what you're doing now you're
in Atlanta or Birmingham. I was.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
I was in Birmingham when this happened. So Hudson Auto
Sales in Bingham, Sir, all right? Why because seven people
were shot in Queen's dude running a car company in Birmingham.
It was it was on the news, and it was
on news, and it was the turning point in my
life because I was like, wow, actually May twenty four,
(40:08):
It was May twenty four, two thousand and when I
saw that on the news. It was it was. It
struck a chord with me, and I said, bad things
continue to happen when people like you and I feel
to take action. So I took action and started to
be Someone to kind of do what I can to
stop the cceleration of crime and violence and reduce the
scooter prison pipeline because our kids are just making bad decisions.
(40:31):
And I later found out that the guy city, he
was real slow and he was basically doing what the
guy told him to do when they.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Robbed the place.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
So we got to teach children how to think for
themselves and how to make sure that what they're doing
is a product of their own conclusion and don't just
follow the follower.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
So you literally shut down your business and started a
nonprofitly Someone.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I really shut down my business started a program called
Be Someone. That's kind of do everything I can teach
children that bad things happen when you do bad things.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Thirty thousand foot view What is be Someone?
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Be Someone is a youth development program dedicated to teaching
children that your moves matter and that the moves you
make determine the path you take, and that you have
everything you need to be successful. You just got to
make sure you use them properly and make sure you
do no harm. Just be a good human being, be
all God created you to be, and never settle for
(41:25):
less than you can be.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
So tell me the first time you walked in to
a school or a community center, or tell me that
thing that you did first for be someone where you
went into a bunch of inner city kids and started
talking chess. I got to believe folks looked at you
kind of crisy.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Yes they did, and I realized that. So what I
did was I created a rap song, the kind of
you've got to be kidding, Yeah, beca My friend at
the times said they ain't listening, or I said, she said,
you gotta do something. So I created a rap song
to meet them where they are before I can get
them to go where I want them to go.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
Say that what you just said, you got to meet that,
that's nowhere in your bio. That is exact range. That
is what I say. Say it again.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
You got to meet people where they are in order
to get them to go where you want them to go.
So they rapping, So I come up, I can rap
better than you. Coach you can rap? Yeah, I don't
know how to rap, but I came up.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
I had.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
You got to meet from where they are. I mean,
if they've been arrested. You got to get arrested for something.
You got to meet people where they are. Hey, have
you been arrested? Okay, I've been arrested. So I met
them where they are. I'd be someone. You got to
get in the game. I'm range C. Hudson. It's time
for a change and make the right moves in this
game called life. Think before you move and always be nice.
And when the game get tough and times get rough,
(42:54):
never give up, because what more than enough? Practice every day,
duck correct way, always better your best before you play.
Got to get in the game. Get in the game.
Say it, and they say, get in the game. Get
in the game. Get your head in the game, heading
the game, said, head in the game, heading the game.
Stay in the game, Stay in the game. Say it.
Stay in the game, Stay in the game. Get on
top of your game, top of your game, top of
(43:15):
your game. What game?
Speaker 3 (43:16):
What game?
Speaker 1 (43:16):
The game or life? The game or life. Chance is
more than a game. If a test you can pass,
pay attention and learn from mistakes in the past. Everybody
for the winner when you know the truth. It's all
about learning and you are living proof, dropping a demo
on today's youth. I'm just like you. There's nothing we
can't do. Be willing to make mistakes in times you
get better. Do whatever it takes. Back down, never get
(43:38):
in the game, and don't be afraid. We all create
an equal black and white shades. Whichever way you made,
we all breathe the same, we all need the same.
So please be in the game.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeay, what do you think cash is? That's that's something
right there.
Speaker 4 (43:55):
Now.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
See that's why I guess I never won a state
championship but never could wrap to my players.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
That's awesome. So you will introduce yourself to rumor kids
that way. And by the time you're through with that,
they're looking at you like all right.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Yeah, And I put a thousand dollars challenge on the table.
They beat me to get a thousand dollars, So they
trying to win a thousand dollars and they can't beat it.
They can't do it. They're trying. I'm coming back in
the morning. That will get that thousand dollar. I said.
But see, I said, look, I'm in pre k So
when I leave here. I'm going back to my laboratory
(44:32):
and I'm gonna study because if I don't, you'll beat
me tomorrow. So I got to pretend that I'm in
pre K school is never out for the pro And
I gotta always be on top of my game every day.
I gotta get a little bit better every day. I
got to get a little bit better. Why because if
I don't, You're gonna get a thousand dollars tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
And that concludes part one of my conversation with Warren Hudson.
And you don't want to this part two. That's now
avable to listen to. Guys, together, we can change this country.
But it really does start with you. I'll see you
in part two.
You got to get in the game. I'm Orange C. Hudson.
It's time for a change and make the right moves
in this game called life. Think before you move and
always be nice. And when the game get tough and
times get rough, never give up because we're more than enough.
Practice every day, duck correct way, always better your best
before you play. We got to get in the game.
Get in the game. Say it, and they say, get
in the game. Get in the game. Get your head
(00:22):
in the game, heading the game. Say it, head in
the game, heading the game. Stay in the game, stay
in the game. Say it. Stay in the game, Stay
in the game. Get on top of your game, top
of your game, top of your game. What game? What game?
The game or life? The game or life. Chance is
more than a game. If the test you can pass,
pay attention and learn from mistakes in the past. Everybody
from Winder when you know the truth, it's all about
(00:44):
learning and you are living proof. Dropping a demo on
today's youth. I'm just like you. There's nothing we can't do.
Be willing to make mistakes and times you get better.
Do whatever it takes. Back down, never get in the game,
and don't be afraid. We all created equal black and
white shades. Whichever way you may, we all breathe the same,
we all need the same, So please get in the game.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yay, that's something right there.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Now, Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.
I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, a father, an entrepreneur,
and I've been a football coach in inner city Memphis.
And that last part it somehow led to an oscar
(01:31):
for the film about our team, it's called Undefeated. I
believe our country's problems will never be solved by a
bunch of fancy people in nice suits using big words
that nobody ever understands on CNN and Fox, but rather
by an army of normal folks, US, just you and
me deciding, Hey, you know what, maybe I can help.
(01:56):
That's what Orange checkmate Hudson, the voice we just heard
is done. But he might not be in the rapping
game or any other game if it weren't for his teacher,
who taught him chess and showed him a better way
than his game. Orn became the first African American to
defeat the Alabama state champion in chess and has since
(02:18):
taught chess to over one hundred thousand kids. I cannot
wait for you to meet Orrin right after these brief
messages from ours unner sponsors Arn Hudson, how are you man?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
In best day in my life I get to hang
out with you might is that a movie coaching kids?
You know you got me. I'm all in. I knew
you had me when I seen you coaching those kids.
Y'all it was down and you came back. You're my
type of guy, beating the odds. I love people who
can help people beat the odds.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Or if this thing you do now doesn't work out,
maybe you should be a publicist because you just threw
me out there and I appreciate that. Or but you're
the man, and I cannot wait when well. First of all,
shout out to a listener of ours named Bill Maddox.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Do you know who Bill Maddocks or Bill Mannix? I
love Bill Mannix and you need to try to recruit
him to be a part of your team because he
is not only is he a good person, he's a
great communicator. He can write stuff that will make people.
It's better to send him to Hawaii than to go
for yourself, because when he write about it, you can
feel the water flapping on your feet.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Well, Bill Maddocks, who I don't know, we at the
end of every episode, as all of our regular listeners
will know, you know, we invite people to tell us
about extraordinary people in their community that we don't know
about doing extraordinary things. And Bill Maddox wrote us about you.
We are getting innundated with these and that does not
(04:15):
mean we want them to stop. Alex will peel through
all of them. But Bill wrote and told me about
this guy named Orrin Checkmate Hudson and who was a
guy who grew up in the inner city and was
coaching chess inner city kids. And the reason I immediately
(04:36):
called Alex and said figure this one out is and
get him here Orn is because chess had a significant
impact on my life as a kid. Wow, and this
is about you. But I'm going to share this to
give people perspective as to how vested I am in
(04:57):
your story. Most people, well not most people. A lot
of people know this, but my dad left home when
I was four, MoMA was married, divorced five times, and
the only mentors I had in my life were my
coaches and my freshman year I was playing football, and
I hurt hurt my shoulder, and that kind of killed
(05:20):
fall for me. There was no way I was going
to play. And yeah, I was just kind of getting
ready for basketball season, frankly. And my favorite teacher was
my math teacher and his name was Dale Flickinger. I
want you to imagine a guy with coke bottle glasses,
but big, like six two two fifty with coke bottle
(05:41):
glasses and kind of curlyish hair and a math teacher.
You think you know what you're looking at. Well, as
I got to know him more, I found out he
was a drummer and a rock band. He played the
piano in his church. He started at center for his
high school football team in mine at North Dakota and
they lost one game in four years. And he was
(06:03):
a master in chess, and he started a chess team
and chess club at the school. And he said, man,
you don't have anything to do this fall, why don't
you join the chess club. Hang out and we'll teach
a chess. And I'm like chess for geeks. I'm a football, basketball,
baseball guy. I ain't playing no chess. That's what is that?
All my friends are going to think I'm crazy.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
And.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Little by little he drew me in and my freshman
year I ended up winning the state championship for the
novice division, and by my senior year, all of the
guys and girls that were on the team went to
the nationals in Philadelphia and our school team place third.
(06:47):
What I was exposed to as a result of chess
was analytical thinking, creativity, patience, not being impulsive and going
with your first reaction. It taught me to be analytical.
It grew my mind, and then socially it had an
(07:07):
effect on me because I'm from Memphis and everybody I
was playing chess with were white private school kids and
a few Asians. And when I went to the national championship,
there were these teams from New York, all these black
kids from intercity schools, and they were thumping folks and
I'm talking about they were so much better than we were,
(07:30):
And it also opened my mind. Chess played a really
big role in my most formative years, and I will
still I haven't played USCF chess. It's it's still us. Yeah,
I haven't played USCF chess since oh my gosh, I
mean probably nineteen eighty eight, nineteen eighty nine, but I
(07:53):
will still on occasion, if I got a twenty dollars
bill in my pocket at a minute, will stop by
in the New York Paul or on the sidewalks in
New Orleans and put the twenty down there and play
a five game to a five minute speed game. And
I went more than I lose, and you know, I
still love it. And when I'm bored to death on
(08:13):
adulta flight, I'll play the computer chess. I'm not I
haven't studied openings or middle games or closings in two decades.
I'm not good. But you know I got to where
I could play a little bit and it was so
important to me. It became a really big part of
(08:34):
my life. So I want to say that to you
before we start your story, because I want you to
know I feel you, I appreciate you, and I feel
what you're.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Doing, and I feel what you've done with the kid
of the football and how you didn't give up and
how you showed up at people houses. That's just really remarkable.
That shows that you have a passion to make a difference,
and we are Kendrick souls, and that I believe in
what you believe in and helping the young people and
helping at least the lass and the loss.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
I love that, but we got to get to why
you're doing it, where you came from, and how you're
doing it. So we're going to start at the beginning.
One other thing chess made me a far better football coach.
The analytics. The pattern recognition. Yeah, the absolutely pattern recognition.
The looking at a situation that you didn't expect and
(09:26):
having to analyze it quickly and figure out the next move.
There's a big difference in chess and football though, because
when you tell a chess piece to move someoneen, you
tell your rook to move up a file, or you
tell your night to take its move, it's going to
do it. In football, you do. You may tell them
(09:47):
to make the right and they do what they would
to do, They do what they want to do. So
you know, in that regard, chess is a lot more
static than football. But it still made me all right orn.
So that's a background, long winded background, and I shouldn't
talk so much about myself, but I really want you
to know why I was so excited to see you.
(10:08):
So you grew up in the Birmingham area. Tell me
about your childhood.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Well, you know, my mom had thirteen children. I'm seven,
I'm number seven, So I was a middle child, and
I remember us staying in the housing projects in Birmingham
and it was like sardines. Have you ever seen startinges
in the can?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
That's how I've seen.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
When you got a three bedroom and you got thirteen children,
there's you know, five people in a room. So, uh,
my brother woke up in a nightmare and hit me
a couple of times. It was that many. It was
that many people in the bed. But uh, I never
forget that. But yeah, it was a it was a
it was a packed house. And I was in and
(10:51):
out of foster homes because the State of Alabama took
we had too mama, I had too many children, and
so they took four or five of us and put
us in foster care. So I was in foster care
and sell my Alabama and you know, went through a
phase where it really was a blessing because when I
(11:13):
went to foster care, I had a white foster pearance
and I went to a predominantly mostly white school and
it really kind of gave me a different outlook and
perspective versus the hood. I was from the hood in
Birmingham Avenue housing projects. And when I went to sell
(11:36):
mall and had these gave me a different perspective and
was able to see things in a different way. And
then I later got out of foster care, went back
home and I was in a gang. I was following
the follower. I was with these kids and they would
say do this. I would do it. They said do this,
and I would do it. And James Edge, a white
(11:57):
teacher in all black high school, which was Hayes High
schooled me to the side and said, listen, you following
the follower. I'm gonna teach you how to think independently
and how to think for yourself. I said, well, how
are you gonna do that. He said, I'm gonna teach
you chess. I said, no, no, no, I'm a checker.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Guru, he said. He said, Checkers, you're using half of
the board. He said, Chance, you're using every single square
on the board. He said, Checkers is all me. And
he said, Chess, the female is the most powerful piece
on the board. I said to him, let's get on
with the classes. Not only did he play the female
(12:35):
card on me, but he played the female card from
the bottom of a debt, and I was hooked like
a book.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
I have a question. I think I remember reading the
Checkers is solved And in big time checkers tournaments, when
you sit down to the board, they actually have predetermined
the first five moves for each side, because a great
checkers player will know after the first move who's gonna win.
(13:04):
Have you ever heard that?
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Never heard that, But I do know that check checkers,
you're using half of the board, and so it's not
and every piece moves the same, every piece moveth is saying,
and life is not every piece of the same. Everybody
is complicated, and there's sometimes to get to your goals,
there's not a straight line. And so that's what I
teach young people. I teach people sometimes you got to
go up, over and to the left because everything, all
(13:29):
your goals is not gonna be a straight line. It's
not gonna be cut and dry.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
You have a lot of cool little sayings. You just
dropped the first one on do it again? What was it?
What did you just say?
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Pattern recognition?
Speaker 3 (13:42):
You had a euphemism you just used. You said, what
do you say?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Everything is not the same? You have different, you got
different you know everything moves to different. You gotta go
up and over and to the left, and that your
success is not a straight line. That you have to
you got to you got to be flexible with your
with your goals, and you got to be willing to
think it through. Impulsivity will take you out. Don't do
the first thing that pops in your head.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Which is you using the game of chust to teach lifeless.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Teaching young people life lessons. How to wake up winning?
How do you wake up winning? You? You make sure
the moves you make add value to others because what
you do comes back multiply to you. And you got
the pause, you got the ponnah, You got to pivot,
You got to pray, proceed and then you prosper. But
if you do the first thing that pops in your head,
(14:32):
your first crack could be a whack and you can't
take it back. So think before you act.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Okay, that thing you just did that, Pause, pivot, do
that again.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Pause, pontna, pivot, pray, proceed, prosper six magic words why.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
And then you did the other one right behind it.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Don't do the first thing that pops in your head.
Your first crack could be a whack and you can't
take it back. So think before you act.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I think that stuff that you just did right there,
That's what I'm saying. What would you would you call
those colloquy? What would you call that?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Alex, Yeah, I was on I was CBS News Atlanta.
Came out into the story on me and said, oh
my god, this is amazing. So she went back to
the studio and said, this dude is This dude made
my job easy. So they came make out about eight
times and did it. It kept doing because I was
making a job easy because I love what I do,
(15:34):
and teaching the children makes my heart sing. And I
teach the children as though my life depends on them
because I owe my life to James Edge, because if
it wasn't for him, I wouldn't even be alive because
I was making some bad moves.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
So we're gonna go back to chronologically to get to
what we're talking about now. But it's funny. I don't
know if you know. The guy that wrote Rude off
the Red Nose Reindeer was a chess player. Don't remember
his name, but he did a lot of those things
that you just did as sayings. And one of my
favorite was watch your step, but don't step on your watch.
(16:09):
And he did a lot of those kind of sayings
and you've got a ton of them. So spoiler alert,
Orange's going to drop a whole lot of old fashioned
wisdom on you in the form of jingles and phrases.
And I don't know it's it's hilarious, all right. So
that your teacher, the white teacher you said that was
(16:29):
in your school.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
His name James VG.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Okay, somehow he decided to pick you.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Well. I asked him about that. He said he got
in trouble when he was my age. Someone helped him
and he was paying it forward. And so I thank
God for James Edge because he took me to the side,
took me over to UAB, introduced me to players that
were much stronger than me. And I were afraid to
go there at first, and he said, listen, he said,
(16:58):
when you go here yet, I ain't gonna beat you up,
but you will get better. And so he taught me
the value of failure. And he told me the failure
was information that you succeed by learning and to make
it okay to fail. So when I went over to
UAB and played those guys. It really I remember being
I remember playing Stuart Rachel. He was on sixty minutes.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
He's very good.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
He's probably the best chess player in Alabama. I remember
playing Stuart Rachel and he gave me his queen on purpose,
and I was so happy, but.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
He beat me.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
He was a setup, he trapped me, and so I
learned early in life that wow, man, people will set
you up. You know, everything that's free is not free.
And he gave me this bait, which was his queen,
but he did it as a way of checkmating me.
So Stuart Rachel was on sixty minutes. He's international master,
he's probably he's a professor at the University of Alabama now.
(17:49):
And so I was able to beat Stuart Rachel's father.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
But not Stuart Racher. No kidding, no, Rachel, dude. Are
usc F ratings still a thing?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's live and well and you
have to be a member, and then you have to
play in tournaments. I played in the World Open and
I played in different tournaments. But my focus is not
about tournaments. My focus is what can I do to
teach young people to make the next move. The best
move Why, Because the moves you made determine the path
you take. A lot of our young people are being incarcerated.
(18:20):
So I'm doing everything I can to stop the celeration
of crime and violence and reduce the school to prison
pipeline because they're going from school to prison. Okay, so
there's so much here to unpick. But where was your dad?
My dad was there, but not there. My daddy had
(18:41):
three jobs, and so my daddy was never home. Now,
my daddy was a generalor in three different three companies,
So my daddy was never home because he had three jobs,
so he he was working. Yeah, my daddy was never there.
But my daddy, and fairness to my dad, he was
(19:01):
there for me. But he was as best he could
because he you know, when he was there, he was
sleep and he had three jobs.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Okay, Well, I I get that you guys didn't have
much money with a dide working three jobs and a
and a mom with.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
My mom never worked thirteen kids. How do you work
with thirteen Yeah? So, but it doesn't feel like you
would be a guy that would join a gang. Why
why did you try the game? It wouldn't it wouldn't
it was I'm gonna be honest with you. It was
mostly stealing food and tires. Food and tires, yeah, we would.
(19:41):
We were not tires, but the inner twos truck inter
twos we were still. We would steal those and sell
them for fifty cents. And we were steal food from
Greg's cookies. So that was It wasn't really a gang
like doing that bad. It was mostly survival. It was
like food and making money. So I was a business
owner where I steal tithes and sell them for fifty cents.
(20:03):
And I look back at my life. The guy who
the white guy who he was selling inner tudes too,
will be give them the fifth cents for everyone. We
steal them out under the trucks. He was getting over
on oh because those attitudes was we're born in fifty centh.
I look back at it now now, Oh, he was
getting over on us.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But first,
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(20:44):
committing suicide, and he'll share his powerful redemption story which
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(21:05):
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(21:30):
We'll be right back. So you start playing chess in
(21:50):
high school, all right?
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah, James pulled miss design, taught me chess, and he
started a chess club. So I started running chess there.
But James realized that I was following the follower, and
I was one of the younger guys in the gang,
and they would just say do this, let's do this,
let's steal these, let's do this, and I was basically
following the follower. So he intervened and taught me chesttheart,
(22:13):
teaching me to think for myself. And so that put
a spirit in me to make sure what I'm doing
is a product of my own conclusion and don't just
be a follower.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
All right, So do you go to college?
Speaker 1 (22:25):
No?
Speaker 3 (22:26):
College.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
I rode in college, but had a job opportunity that
I couldn't turn down, and so I left college and
went to take the job. I was offered an assistant
manager for Kenny Shoe Corporation, and I was making good
money at the time. Back then, it was good money,
(22:47):
and I took it. So I walked away from college
that because money was tough in the family. So I
just I did that. And then later I went into
the Air Force, and from the Air Force I went
into the state trooper, and then from state trooper I
started to be someone I mean started no, no, I'm sorry.
From state trooper, I went into Hudson on a sales,
(23:10):
which was a carb business, and then went from carb
business to be someone.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Okay, state trooper. How long seven years you were? You
were such a there's a dichotomy to you that's interesting,
and that people that are incredibly good at chess as
(23:35):
you are, you don't you don't you wouldn't expect them
to also in their professional life be a state trooper
or in the Air Force. It's usually professors and academics
and really really really highly educated folks. You're clearly really smart,
(23:58):
but you're your walk doesn't really parallel a chess master. Well,
let's be tell me about how that dichotomy worked in
your life.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Well, let's be clear. I tell my students all the
time I'm in pre K and what that means is
I'm still learning. And I tell my students all the
time that I've lost more chess games than anyone alive,
and I brag about it because failure is your friend.
Failures information, Failure tells you what to do next. And
so while I'm not that good, I've beat a lot
(24:31):
of famous people in chess because I've to stop.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
I failed. Not to interrupt you, but no, I failed
a lot. Yeah, failing, failing. Learning from failure leads to success,
I get it. But when you beat a lot of
really good players, you are good well chess. I mean,
don't undersell this, because that's I mean. Didn't you beat
the Georgia state champion?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah? Yeah, but here here's the deal. His name is
Stephen behind me.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
But anyway, yeah, I have you just lost right over there?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah I have. But at the same time I tell
my students that I'm in pre k because really, really,
in fairness, I'm working progress and I have my moments.
I beat one of the top rushing grand messers in
the world. Why because his name is Rashid zi Ethnov.
And the reason I and it this time Russian. Yeah,
at this time he had won more tournaments in the
(25:23):
United States than anyway.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
You can google it to come up.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
But the only reason I would beat him is that
I saw an opportunity where I sacrificed the rook for
a pond, which is a five. Gave up five for one.
And people have opportunities all the time, but the purpose
of your life is to seize that moment right then,
right there, because that moment will go away and that
when the opportunity will no longer be there. So I
(25:46):
took advantage of an opportunity. He took the rook and
game over. You can't you can't take it. So sometimes
when people do something, you can't hit back because if
you hit back, the roferee gonna call a foul on you.
So teach my children, don't celebrate into the referees in
this car. And if the referee.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Cars, celebrate to the referees of the car.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
And if the referee car doesn't start, keep your helmet
on to the record, get there, do not you know,
we don't you know, we don't we up twenty points.
We're not gonna celebrate, you know. And the Lanta Facons
was up twenty eight points against the Patriots and they
lost the game. Now if I was a code and
no way, because we don't, we don't celebrate. We gonna
(26:28):
play like we a million points. Always play like you
a million points behind. That way, you won't get complacent,
you won't celebrate, and you'll keep your foot on the pedal.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
And that's life. That's life, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
That's why I tell my studentom in pre k, never never,
never unestimate your opponent. If I'm in pre k, I'm
not gonna I'm never gonna underestimate you. I'm gonna play
like I'm in pre k, and I'm gonna take advantage
of every opportunity, and I'm gonna manage my resources. Chess
is not about chess. Chance is about manager and resources.
The opposite of wealth is not poor, and the opposit
(27:03):
of the wealth is mismanagement and resources poor. As a
reflection of how you manage a resources, you have everything
you need to win the game. You have your mind,
you have your ability, you have your talents, and you
have time. But you have to manage your resources properly.
To have and not to manage properly is not the hair.
Whatever you mis manage, you will lose.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
When I first heard about you, I thought we were
going to talk about your efforts teaching chess to kids
to help them get smarter and find a different thing
to do in their life. That was positive. When I'm
starting to gather real quickly is really it's not about chess.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
It's not about it's less about chess. It's more about character.
They called me the full X guy. What that means is,
I'm gonna give you four times more value than you
give me. When you guys invited me to come in,
I'm gonna do something for the community on me, you know.
And I went over to this peer academy why because
I'm gonna always give you way more than you give me.
That's my brand and that's what I teach children. I
(28:02):
cheat children that you can have anything you want if
you add more value to the next person. Because if
you constantly making the post, constantly making the pother and
walk away when you get ready to make a withdraw.
Your request will never be denied because you gave way
more than you asked for. How long were you a
(28:25):
state trooper? Seven years? Had the joy that I loved it.
I had the blue light, the bad the bulletproof vets.
But everybody I stopped, I treated them like the most
important person in the world. Here's why what you sincerely
desire for others, what happened for you. People don't understand that.
(28:45):
People don't understand it that when you stop that per
that person is you. You're a Georgia State true. Now
was an Alabama state trooper Alabama states.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
All right, Right now, I've got my four kids in
the car and Lisa and they are four, five, six,
and seven, and we're going from Memphis down the Gulf Shores,
Alabama to the beach for the week. All right. I
want you to imagine that, because I've done that, and
about two hours in, I'm ready to jump out the
(29:14):
car window from the kids. Are we there yet? Throwing stuff?
I got a pee and I'm just I've had enough already,
right And so I passed through Birmingham where all that
construction was, you know, and now I'm headed down toward
what's the name of that town, the where you cut
over the Gulf Shores. I'm headed down. I'm about to
(29:35):
go through Foley, okay, all right, And because kids are
driving me crazy, it's a sixty five and I'm doing
eighty four.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
And you light me up nineteen over okay, yeah, and
you light me up. How do you approach me? Well,
first you come to the car. I'm not gonna let
the kids know I'm gonna write to you. I'm not
gonna let them not say I want to talk to
you about something and it's not that bad. Now the
kids think it's cool. You really say that, yeah, yeah,
because I don't want I've never heard that. Well, you
(30:06):
are mean, so I gotta treat you like you mean.
So I'm not gonna let them know I'm gonna write
you a ticket, okay, because I want them to I
want you to feel I want them to feel, you know,
respected by you. So I say it's not that bad.
I just want to talk to you a quick second.
And so now they think, oh, it's cool. So now
when you go back to the kids, you can tell
them if you want. I'm not gonna let them see anything.
(30:26):
I'm not gonna let them see you get so. So
now I painted the picture to them that everything's cool.
They just want to talk to you for a brief
second about something. And so now they don't know what
I'm gonna do. And what I tried to do is
some kind of way I tried to make you win.
I mean, I may write you the ticket or whatever,
but at the end of the day, you're gonna you're
gonna feel good about how I handled it because I
(30:49):
handled it with dignity, respect and honor, and I gave
you the benefit of the doubt. Let me give you
an example when that happened. I gave this guy some
mercy on the ticket. He was going like a hundred
and I think I put eighty eight on him whatever.
He was going on a hundred, and I put like,
because if he goes at the judge want to see him.
She want me towards car. So I bumped it down
so that didn't have to toward car. And I ain't
(31:10):
because you mean. So I said, listen, I'm gonna I'm
gonna save you about two thousand dollars on this transaction.
I could put a hundred, but I'm not gonna do it.
I'm gonna treat you like you mean. I'm gonna put
eighty eight. Let you mail this fine end. Oh man,
thank you. He said wow. He said, what's your name?
I said, I'm Hunting. He said, is your daddy Jeron Hunting?
I said yes. He said, wow. We about to fire
(31:32):
him for drinking on the job. I'm gonna rip his
paperwork up. He ripped my daddy's paperwork up because I
put out good, and good comes back, and that's what
people need to learn. The good happen that really happened.
The good you do comes back to you. So between
me and you, I never seen my daddy drink, and
I really don't believe it. I believe my daddy was
set up by somebody giving him a beer. And he
(31:54):
don't eat. My daddy don't drink, but somebody must have
set him up. He worked at a golf club and
some probably one of the golfers, gave him a beer
and he drunk it and he and they caught him
drinking it and they fired him. But I never know
my daddy to drink. So but anyway, the bottom line
is the guy had my daddy's paperwork on this. They
was gonna find my daddy. They did. He ripped it
up or whatever. My daddy retired, got his retirement check
(32:16):
and everything, because a good deeds never lost. Now, my
daddy had a third grade education, and my daddy taught
me that a good deed is never lost. And that
played out in his life and in my life, and
it benefited him and me both.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Did you ever pull over somebody belligerent and difficult?
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah, yeah, I've throwed over this guy that I knew
that was belligerent. I wrote him a warning ticket. He
took the wanting because it wasn't that bad. He took
the wanting ticket and threw it out the winter on
the ground. I took it back and wrote him a
real ticket. So he learned the hard way. Yeah, I said,
I gave you a warning ticket and you gonna throw
it on the ground in front of me. Now I'm
(32:56):
all right, I'm gonna change it to a real ticket.
Now you're gonna pay it. So, yeah, he was religerer,
but he learned the hard way.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
So even as a trooper, you were still trying to
find ways to serve them well.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
When I worked at Kenny Shoes, I was trained at
the customer's always right. Well, when I went to State
trooper school, they told me the customers always wrong, otherwise
you've got no besiness stopping them. But so in my blood,
I've always tried to make sure that the customer was
always right, and I always tried to treat people better
than I wanted to be treated. And I guarantee you
there are some people out there that I stopped to
(33:31):
go that dude gave me mercy, because that's really what
it's all about. We all are one, that we're connected one.
You know, we all are connected, and I cannot be
without the being to you or what you ought to be.
So we're in the connected.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Oh, I want to go off topics so bad and
talk about police reform with you. We'll be right back.
From your perspective growing up, from your perspective is a
(34:05):
black trooper in Alabama, and from your perspective of what
you do today and the kids that you serve, which
we will get to. There's a real hot topic that
we all are dealing with right now, which is police reform.
And they old reform and das out there that won't
(34:26):
prosecute certain crimes, but that's leading to more and more
petty theft, and many of our countries we're having retailers
like Target and Walgreens shut down because they're literally having
their profits stolen. People are brazen enough to just walk
in the door and take stuff and walk out. So
(34:47):
I completely get on the one side, there should not
be any segment of our population if fears law enforcement.
Law enforcement is paid for by the tax dollars that
we earn, and they are there to protect and serve us,
not to abuse us. But on the other side, we
can't get so soft on crime that then we lose
(35:14):
a civil society. And I'll be honest with you, I'm
really torn on it. From your perspective of your service,
where you come from being a black trooper in Alabama,
what do you think about the situation we're in nationally
as we continue to struggle with this thing.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
I think it goes back to home training and just
always make sure you're giving what you take. I was
in a store in Vegas and a customer stole some
stuff and I'm with you. I'm standing in the officer
and I talk and we both see him. He said,
I'm not going to do anything or because if I
rested this guy, he gonna be back. He going to
(35:55):
be out on the street and he'd be back in
here next day. Still, and I'm like, wow, he actually
let the person steal the stuff and go and because
he said it was it wasn't worth it. So we
got to figure out if he arrested him, he gonna
be back. Aren't even gonna keep him? So why waste
my time? Why waste my time? He gonna be back,
And that's a problem. Shouldn't that guy serve thirty days
(36:17):
or something? That's a big there's a big disconnect, and
that's a big problem. I think we got to go.
I think it starts in the family, and I think
we need to We need a father and a mother
in the home. We got to teach these children how
to respect authority and how they don't abuse the system.
And I think we gotta, we gotta. We need police reform.
(36:39):
We need sensitivity, sensitivity training for the officers. Word officers
can say, listen, uh, let's let's let's do the right thing.
I don't want to shoot and kill nobody who's on arm.
I'm not doing that because it's me. I want to
make sure this address I'm going to, this house is right,
check double check, triple check. Never assume, question everything, Inspect
(37:01):
what you can expect, control what you can control, and
impact everything else. I think we got to figure out
a way to educate the community and if someone steals
some it's got to be a consequence for it. That
is such common sense. Why is that so hard? Just
people don't get it, and a lot of people don't understand.
(37:22):
I was telling Alex a day that a lot of
the children, I was glad to help those children at
Pure Academy because I'm teaching these children that don't do
the first thing that pops in your head. Usually your
first thought is inferior. And we got to think it
through and we got to make sure that we're giving,
not taking. And I tell them all the time that
sometimes you have to set what you're gonna do and
(37:44):
then do the total opposite, because the opposite is probably
the real answer. A gambit, it's a gambuit. Like when
I gave up. I was telling my students at Peer Academy,
I said, I sacrificed two queens in one game. I
sacrificed my course queen, I promoted got another. I took
my pund down. I sacrificed both queens. You can google this,
(38:05):
it's it's on YouTube. I sacrificed two queens to win
the game. And sometimes in life, you got the gammeut
you gotta give up, you gotta give, you gotta give
to get, and oftentimes you got to give up your
your most precious possession to win the game. I learned
this from Magic Johnson. Magic Johnson was playing for the
Los Angeles Lakers and Kareem up du Jabal got hurt
(38:26):
and went out, and the whole team was holding their
head down there with the press, and Magic Johnson said
to them, there's no need to fear. Magic is here
to go. You shut up, rookie, you don't know what
you're talking about. But he said, listen, no defeat. Magic's here.
He scored forty two points, had fifteen rebounds in ten
a cents.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
He did it.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
But they didn't believe him because he was a rookie.
And they said, so sometimes when you sacrifice your most
precious possession, you still can win.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
All right, So why did you leave law enforcement?
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I left law enforcement because I had Hudson Auto Sales.
And when I had Hudson, all of sales, it was
a business, was car business. Or body shop, and I
sold cars and I was making a lot of money,
so it was it was it was an income deal
where I was losing money as a trooper. So I
took my I switched gears and did the Hudson all sales.
(39:18):
And then later seven people were shot on a robbery
in Queens, New York. And that was the turning point
in my life for me to say, you know what,
bad things continue to happen when concerned people failed to
make boss moves. I made a ball smooth and started
to be someone to teach young people to put brains
before bullets.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
All right, So we got to concentrate on that, because
that is the transition to what you're doing now you're
in Atlanta or Birmingham. I was.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
I was in Birmingham when this happened. So Hudson Auto
Sales in Bingham, Sir, all right? Why because seven people
were shot in Queen's dude running a car company in Birmingham.
It was it was on the news, and it was
on news, and it was the turning point in my
life because I was like, wow, actually May twenty four,
(40:08):
It was May twenty four, two thousand and when I
saw that on the news. It was it was. It
struck a chord with me, and I said, bad things
continue to happen when people like you and I feel
to take action. So I took action and started to
be Someone to kind of do what I can to
stop the cceleration of crime and violence and reduce the
scooter prison pipeline because our kids are just making bad decisions.
(40:31):
And I later found out that the guy city, he
was real slow and he was basically doing what the
guy told him to do when they.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Robbed the place.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
So we got to teach children how to think for
themselves and how to make sure that what they're doing
is a product of their own conclusion and don't just
follow the follower.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
So you literally shut down your business and started a
nonprofitly Someone.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I really shut down my business started a program called
Be Someone. That's kind of do everything I can teach
children that bad things happen when you do bad things.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Thirty thousand foot view What is be Someone?
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Be Someone is a youth development program dedicated to teaching
children that your moves matter and that the moves you
make determine the path you take, and that you have
everything you need to be successful. You just got to
make sure you use them properly and make sure you
do no harm. Just be a good human being, be
all God created you to be, and never settle for
(41:25):
less than you can be.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
So tell me the first time you walked in to
a school or a community center, or tell me that
thing that you did first for be someone where you
went into a bunch of inner city kids and started
talking chess. I got to believe folks looked at you
kind of crisy.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Yes they did, and I realized that. So what I
did was I created a rap song, the kind of
you've got to be kidding, Yeah, beca My friend at
the times said they ain't listening, or I said, she said,
you gotta do something. So I created a rap song
to meet them where they are before I can get
them to go where I want them to go.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
Say that what you just said, you got to meet that,
that's nowhere in your bio. That is exact range. That
is what I say. Say it again.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
You got to meet people where they are in order
to get them to go where you want them to go.
So they rapping, So I come up, I can rap
better than you. Coach you can rap? Yeah, I don't
know how to rap, but I came up.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
I had.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
You got to meet from where they are. I mean,
if they've been arrested. You got to get arrested for something.
You got to meet people where they are. Hey, have
you been arrested? Okay, I've been arrested. So I met
them where they are. I'd be someone. You got to
get in the game. I'm range C. Hudson. It's time
for a change and make the right moves in this
game called life. Think before you move and always be nice.
And when the game get tough and times get rough,
(42:54):
never give up, because what more than enough? Practice every day,
duck correct way, always better your best before you play.
Got to get in the game. Get in the game.
Say it, and they say, get in the game. Get
in the game. Get your head in the game, heading
the game, said, head in the game, heading the game.
Stay in the game, Stay in the game. Say it.
Stay in the game, Stay in the game. Get on
top of your game, top of your game, top of
(43:15):
your game. What game?
Speaker 3 (43:16):
What game?
Speaker 1 (43:16):
The game or life? The game or life. Chance is
more than a game. If a test you can pass,
pay attention and learn from mistakes in the past. Everybody
for the winner when you know the truth. It's all
about learning and you are living proof, dropping a demo
on today's youth. I'm just like you. There's nothing we
can't do. Be willing to make mistakes in times you
get better. Do whatever it takes. Back down, never get
(43:38):
in the game, and don't be afraid. We all create
an equal black and white shades. Whichever way you made,
we all breathe the same, we all need the same.
So please be in the game.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeay, what do you think cash is? That's that's something
right there.
Speaker 4 (43:55):
Now.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
See that's why I guess I never won a state
championship but never could wrap to my players.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
That's awesome. So you will introduce yourself to rumor kids
that way. And by the time you're through with that,
they're looking at you like all right.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Yeah, And I put a thousand dollars challenge on the table.
They beat me to get a thousand dollars, So they
trying to win a thousand dollars and they can't beat it.
They can't do it. They're trying. I'm coming back in
the morning. That will get that thousand dollar. I said.
But see, I said, look, I'm in pre k So
when I leave here. I'm going back to my laboratory
(44:32):
and I'm gonna study because if I don't, you'll beat
me tomorrow. So I got to pretend that I'm in
pre K school is never out for the pro And
I gotta always be on top of my game every day.
I gotta get a little bit better every day. I
got to get a little bit better. Why because if
I don't, You're gonna get a thousand dollars tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
And that concludes part one of my conversation with Warren Hudson.
And you don't want to this part two. That's now
avable to listen to. Guys, together, we can change this country.
But it really does start with you. I'll see you
in part two.
Host
Bill Courtney
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