August 12, 2025 • 45 mins
Peggy Halvorsen was "only" trying to adopt a kid from Liberia. Shortly after they agreed to adopt his brother too, he died from cholera and Peggy insisted that this could not be the end of the story. 14 years later, their accidental ministry Teamwork Africa has built 216 wells, repaired over 500 existing ones, sponsor the education of 180 kids, and they're about to open their second school.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
I said, I'm not sure what to feel now about leaving.
I said, I hope Mother Teresa's quote is true. And
her quote is that I found this paradox that if
you love until it hurts, there could be no more hurts,
only more love. Because I have surely loved until it
hurts deeply. I have come across the world only to
find myself at home, a joy growing deep in my soul.
(00:22):
As long as I never forget the love, laughter, family,
and friendship that is here, it will always be with me.
So I have so much to do when I get home.
Feels a little overwhelming, but these memories and God's strength
will encourage me in my weakness. Everyone said that coming
here would change me, but I didn't understand how. When
I first arrived, I said that Liberia had a beauty
among the rubble, and I have found such beauty. And
(00:45):
it is the beauty, not the rubble, that has changed me.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Wow, and you're saying that with tears.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Yeah, yeah, Welcome to an army of normal folks.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
I'm a husband, a father, I'm an entrepreneur, and I've
been a football coach in Inner City Memphis. That last
part somehow led to an oscar for the film about
our team.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
That movie is called Undefeated.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
I believe our country's problems are never going to be
solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice clothes
using big words that nobody ever uses on CNN and Fox,
but rather by an army of normal folks. That's us,
just you and me deciding, Hey, you know what, maybe
I can help.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
That's exactly what Peggy Halverson, the voice you just heard,
has done.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
And as if adopting a child from Liberia in West
Africa wasn't enough, this journey opened Peggy's eyes to so
much else that she just could not look away from.
This was constant Mom's accidental nonprofit Teamwork Africa has since
built and repaired hundreds of wells in Liberia, started a
(02:04):
school there, and sponsors the education of hundreds of students.
I cannot wait for you to meet Peggy right after
these brief messages from our general sponsors.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Peggy Halverson, welcome to Memphis.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
When did you get here?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
About thirty minutes ago?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Oh you're just landed, you just flew in.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
You just got here.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
You stay in the night. Yes, where'd Alex put you
Peabody or.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Somewhere else Weston Memphis, Western.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Memphis, about Bill Street. Oh, that's right. I hope you
like music. That's in the middle of the blues district.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Oh, that's awesome, wonderful.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
From rum Boogie cat In two blocks from Cashes Rumboogie
and then up at Second and Deal is bb King's right. Yeah,
so you're in the cradle of the beginning of blues
and rock and roll.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
So that's super exciting.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Yeah, you might want to kind of pedal down there
and check it out. It's pretty cool. You're cross street
from the FedEx One. It's good place. So o Claire, Wisconsin.
All I know is that's a north Woods area. That's
where you came to us from. Where is that?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Where is Wisconsin?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
H Whereconson is? But Claire.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
When I was in Boston, people did not know where Wisconsin's.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
Okay, Well, I'm a little less geographically challenged.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Claire is on the west central side, so it's about
an hour's drive from the Twin Cities or Saint Paul, Minneapolis.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
I got it gets real cold up there in the winter.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
It sure does.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah. Is it hot there? Sure is? I mean hot
is relative.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
We've had one hundred and ten degree heat index down
here for last three weeks.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
This is a mild day. You got one.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah, well yeah, this weekend was pretty nice up there too.
The weekend before was in the nineties.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, that's hot for you guys, Yeah it was.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
It can get hot ball me. I wonder sometimes why
we live there. It gets really really cold. It's really hot.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, welcome to Memphis. Do you know Dave would I do?
Who's Dave would?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Dave and his wife Becky are wonderful supporters of Teamwork Africa.
They come to our events and you know, they've been
with us on our journey and when I had an
event recently, they were there and they were trying to
think about what what could they do that would help
Teamwork Africa, And they thought of this podcast and they thought, Hey,
wouldn't it be cool if Peggy and Teamark Africa could
be one of the ordinary folks or normal folks that
(04:46):
could be on the show.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So well, welcome. So here's the deal, everybody. Peggy Halverson
is the co founder and US executive director of Teamwork Africa,
which obviously we're going to get to because that's your
story while you're here lead up to it and kind
of set the table for it. We found out about
Peggy because Dave would did what we ask all of
(05:09):
you to do. Folks who are fans of an army
of normal folks who have joined the army of normal folks,
Folks who are regular listeners. We ask you.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Over and over again to email us about normal people
doing exceptional things in the world, and we'll find out
about them, and if if we feel like they fit,
we'll bring them to Memphis and tell their stories. And Peggy,
you were here because of the kindness of Dave Wood
reaching out and telling us a little bit about you.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
So Dave shout out to you.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Thank you so much for being a loyal listener and
for taking the five minutes to simply make a suggestion
that has now led to Peggy plopping down in Memphis
across from me to have a little chat.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
So ding ding for Dave Wood.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, they're awesome.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, that's awesome. So where'd you come from? What'd you
grow up?
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I grew up in rural Wisconsin, daughter of farming kids.
My parents book came from farming families, So I grew
up in We didn't live on a farm, but a
rural area, very small town, the kind that you drive
by and nobody knows.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Where it is, the one that you salute on he haw.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah, those for sure. Yep. I'm the oldest of three, oldest.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Of three, so pretty normal Midwestern American family.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
I sure thought.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
So.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah. Yeah, and your husband, yep, he.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Is a radio broadcaster in Oh really he is.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
He works radio, sitting right at home right.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Well, yeah, but I'm used to him in shops.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
But I'll be a radio broadcaster.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
You have an amazing voice, do you hear that?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Cash? That's right, I've got a face and a voice
for radio.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
So Alex posted, So I was screwing with a guest
from North Carroltin in Memphis. We claim very few things,
but we have our claims to fame, and we're pretty
devout about them.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
One is FedEx was founded and headquartered, which is a
big deal to US international paper. The first Holiday Inn
ever was here, and the founder and their families here here,
and back then there was no Hilton or Weston. I mean,
Holiday Inn set the stage for how we travel now.
Termin x AutoZone, most recently XAI is here, and so.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
We have, Yeah, not many your face and.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
You're wow right, wow.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Memphis has a lot going for it and not many
people know it. We get overshadowed by Nashville a lot.
The other thing we have is a deep rich heritage
and music, which is Elvis and I mean Aretha and
Isaac Cayes and Jerry Lee Lewis and Roy Orbison, I mean,
the list goes on and on. They all got their
(07:48):
start here, often at Sun Studios, which is still open.
And then before that, the blues. Rock and roll is
a is a conveilation of the blues from the Mississippi
Delta and rockabilly from the Hills. And when rockabilly, the
gospel and the blues collided, that's what made rock and
(08:10):
roll and that happened here. And so we as Memphians,
we brag all that. Know, we cashes, I mean, that's
our thing. And then so that's the arts, that's the business.
And then culturally it's barbecue World Championship, Barbecue contest is
(08:31):
here and all that, and so we appreciate that the
people in North Carolina, Texas and Kansas City try, but they.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Are minor league barbecue. I see, right, So I had
a guest.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Here from North Carolina not too long ago, and I
was giving her the business about her you know, nice
try on the barbecue, but let's be real kind of thing,
and he put it up on TikTok. And now I'm
getting dog cussed by about half the country over this
barber you thing.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Okay, So while you're here, yes, if you go taste
a little of the blues in the street also has
some nice little barbecue.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
You want to grab a river or two and.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
See, that would be very fun.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Okay. So now now we're past that.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
You guys, your your husband and you get married, have
a family, start having children, and a lovely normal American life,
but not and I don't mean this, but not anything
remarkable that would be right.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Just a normal, yeah, very normal life.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I thought.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Yeah, and we'll pick it up where a line I
read by you said, I felt like God had put
it on my heart that there was a little boy
that was supposed to be our son.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Did that come from?
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah, that's a great question. I was in our church,
and I was in our worship service.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
And you already had how many we had?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
We had three, and I was expecting our fourth and.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Had not adopted.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Right, these are four natural born what's your husband's name, Mark, Mark?
So these are Mark and Peggy offspring doing life.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Four kids. There's a lot to pay for. I mean,
I have four, so I know.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
And and so you're sitting in church and decides you
need to adopt also while you're pregnant.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Are you crazy?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Well, I was just listening. So I was in the
worship service, and I was worshiping, and I felt God
just speak that to my heart that they're and it
startled me. I walked out of the sanctuary and into
the lobby and there's a couple that I know there
that I really respected, who've done missions, and they's they're
all wholehearted for God. And I said, I just feel
(10:54):
like God told me something and I need you to
pray with me right now. And so they grabbed my
hands and I told them what I felt like I
got to put in my heart and they and they
prayed with me at that moment. And then I just
kept it in my heart quiet because we were expecting
our fourth child and my husband would absolutely think I
was crazy. Yeah, No, I didn't say anything. I just
(11:17):
I just kept it in my heart for a couple
of years and a couple of years later, he came
home from work one day and he had listened to
Stephen Kurst. Chapman was quoting John Piper saying that adoption
is the living Gospel, and he said, I think we
should adopt. And then I told him.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
How long is it between the two?
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, that's a good question. So it's two thousand and
five when I first heard that from the Lord, and
it was probably two thousand and seven. Couple of years,
A couple of years.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But first,
we're hosting two live interviews that I want to share
with you on August twentieth. We're hosting one in Memphis
with Peter Mudibasi, who is known as the foster dad
Flipper and is the most famous foster dad in all
(12:16):
of America. Peter is fostered get this forty seven kids,
has adopted three of them and is about to adopt
three more, and his radical love has gone viral. This
dude's got two point five million followers on social media.
To learn more and RSVP, visit foster dad Flipper dot
(12:41):
event bright dot com, Fosterdadflipper dot event Bright dot com
for August twentieth, a live interview with Peter Mudabasi, and
then on August twenty eighth, we're doing one in Oxford,
Mississippi with one of my mentors, and I dare call him,
(13:02):
dear friends, Sparky ridon Ole.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Miss was.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
So lucky to have Sparky as the Dean of students
when I was there, and many others, and he's now
authored a new book, The Dean Menoires and Missives. Guys,
I'm telling you this is something you don't want to miss.
I think we can just turn on the microphone and
I can say, hey, everybody, this is Sparky and shut up,
(13:28):
and he will entertain, inspire. He's a phenomenal guy. To
RSVP to that one visits Sparkyreardon dot event, Bright dot com.
That's Sparkyreardon dot event, Bright dot com and Oxford August
twenty eighth.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I hope you'll come to both. We'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Before we go any further, because I want our listeners
to stick with us. Okay, first, full disclosure, I'm a Christian.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
We are not a Christian show. We are not a
non Christian show. We are an army of normal folks.
And if you have an army of normal folks, you're
gonna have people of all different faiths, religions, belief sets
and everything else. So for our non Christian listeners, or
maybe more less devout listeners, I want to give you
(14:33):
an opportunity before we go further, to let folks know
who don't really understand quote God spoke to me. Some
people think that means God came down into vision with
a white robe and there was trumpets abusing.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I know, because that's ridiculous, right, But as ridiculous as
that sounds to you, it sounds to other peop people
who don't understand the depth of your faith and how
you feel like you're quote listening.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
So I would I would like for you to explain
for our listeners what that really means and how that
sounds and feels to your ears and your heart to
move you to want to go do something, because I
don't want to lose people who say, oh my gosh,
you know what, did an angel come down and PLoP
(15:28):
down the pew and look at her and talk to her?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
You know what I mean? Yeah, give give our give
our listeners an opportunity to understand what that what that means,
I think.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
That more people are led by the spirit of God
than they think. They don't. They wouldn't call it that
they maybe they would call it a different name. But
it's that that impression, that feeling that you should go
to the left today instead of to the right, like
(16:02):
there's or you should take that job tuition. Yeah, it
can feel like that, and I would say, you know,
I certainly have that experience too. There's only two times
or three maybe in my life where I had such
a strong impression that really came out of the blue
that I would actually call it. I felt like there
was some divine calling to do something, and that was
(16:24):
certainly one of them. But I feel like when you
are listening to you know, paying attention to the world
that you're in, that you're not so like that you
quiet down the noise. That each person has a purpose
for their life, and if they're quiet and they sit
still long enough, I feel like, whether whatever your tradition is,
(16:49):
I believe there's a force in the universe that's going
to guide you in the direction that you were supposed
that you were created to do. So for me as
a as a Christian, I call that God's voice, and
if you're not a Christian, then there's I still think
that you were created for a purpose and that when
you are still and listen for it, you'll find it.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Peggy, I think that is a beautiful explanation, and I
appreciate it because I want people to understand that you're
not some zellet out there thinking, yeah, it's funny that
you laugh because it sounds ridiculous to you. But some
non believers hear that and they recoil because they think,
oh my gosh, this is some zealot religious fanatic and
(17:32):
they think they're talking to God. And I don't want
people to get that impression when they hear it, because
that is not at all who you are, right And
I also feel like there's some times in my life
where I was quiet and still, which is very rare,
that I felt compelled, strongly convicted to do something in
(17:55):
my life, and I look back on it now and
I feel absolutely I was being led by my God
and my faith. So I think it's a beautiful explanation
of what you're saying, and I just want people to
kind of hear it from the horse's mouth because you're
the one who.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Felt what I think that there are times where people
can get really crazy ideas and that can happen. But
for me, especially for this particular thing, this wasn't the
outside of what I was expecting. I didn't do anything
with it for two years. I just sat and waited
because if this was from God, then it wasn't going
to be something that I was going to make happen.
(18:32):
It was a door that was open, and whenever the
time was right to walk through it, I was ready
to walk through it.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
And then Mark rolls in and says, we need to adopt.
Did you then share the hill? Yes?
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Then I shared it with him.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Well, now you guys are in. I mean, you've been
carrying this for two years. He rolls in, dumps it
on your lap, and you're like, well, guess what, Mark.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
But even then, even though I felt like it was Africa,
we didn't start with Africa. We actually looked at all
different kinds of adoption options. We looked at foster care
adoption and special needs adoption and international adoption to try
to find what was the right fit for our family,
and we were so overwhelmed by the information that we
(19:17):
found that that one of The first things we did
was we hosted a conference, a workshop in our community
called Hope for Forgotten Children, where we invited people to
come and learn about foster care, orphan care, and adoption.
And then it was actually through that that we met
the woman who was doing work in Liberia and actually
led us through the started us on the process of
adoption in Africa.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
So it was through that what's her name?
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Who she Her name was Donna?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
And what did she say and how did she know?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
She Well, she was doing humanitarian work in Liberia and
she was helping people getting matched with kids there and
at the time, Liberia was really easy to adopt from,
and so she had she had communic connections in Liberya
and she's like, hey, I can help you guys find
a kid to adopt if that's the direction you want
to go. And so we're like, okay, tell us more
(20:06):
so kidding, Yeah, yes, So I think we probably held
that conference in you know, in the summer, and we
started our home study and by December we had the
picture of a little boy and you know, from Liberia
and the email said could this be your son? And
we hadn't even finished the home study yet.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Okay, we Alex has plopped people guests down in front
of me to interview and Oh.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
You're gonna butcher this as you always do. All yeah,
I am going to butcher this. But I'll fix it.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
I know you will. Oh, by the way, it's like
Wizard of Oz. Ignore the man behind the curtain. He's
just an irritating thing. He'll sit over and say stuff
every once a while. Just act like he's not there. Okay,
that's rude. See, so I've interviewed I don't know, we've
probably had four or five interviews with folk past shows
(21:01):
that have been in and around the adoption world, certainly
never from Liberia. So you're first. I'm always struck by
the desire to adopt. I have four children that I adore.
They are now twenty eight, twenty nine, eight, twenty seven,
and twenty six. I adorn most times. Sometimes they're a
(21:23):
complete pain of the butt, but I do adorm in
general right, and as empathetic as I want to be
in the world, and as much positive I want to
do in the world, I cannot fathom inviting another headache
into my life, especially one that I did not create.
I think it takes I think it takes a special
(21:43):
design and empathy and heart and person to take on
what you take on, especially those that even consider special
needs kids, knowing they're bringing that into their home and
their life, into their own children's lives.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
So i't to tell you I'm in awe of people
like you.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
There's something inside of you that's just very, very special
that I do not have in me. Then comes the
work to actually do it, once you clear the hurdle
of being that kind of person. And I have been
astounded at the cost of this, the financial burden it
takes just to get adoption done. Sometimes walk us through
(22:28):
that initial process so that people understand that it's a
lot more than calling up Liberian saying hey, I'll take
a kid, ship them over.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, And our story is unique and probably would not
ever be repeated. But at the time that we were
matched with Michael in Liberia, you could petition the government directly,
So once you had your home study on the US side,
you could petition the Ministry of Gender in Liberia and
then they would do their background check or whatever. And
it was just a real simple process. And I don't
(23:01):
even remember what it was at the time, because it
didn't happen when we got masked with Michael in December
of two thousand and eight, and in January Liberia closed
to adoption. Yeah, lovely, because it was so easy to
adopt from Liberia that there was a huge amount of corruption.
So children were being adopted that weren't orphans. Children were
(23:22):
be adopted that had special needs, but it wasn't disclosed
to the adoptive families. There was extortion and bribery and
all kinds of awful, awful things.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Say child trafficking too, probably, I mean, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
I mean, I guess that's the definite. I mean, sending
a child home with other people who have parents without
their permission, I guess would be wrafficking. So there was
one story. So at that time again and this is
you know, surely Library had a twenty year civil war
(23:53):
from nineteen eighty nine to two thousand and four, and
so this is shortly after that. This was within four
or five years after that war had ended, and so
a lot of families were just really struggling. So as
nonprofits and aid was coming in adoption, orphanages were being
set up. So a lot of times parents would put
their kids in the orphanage to take care of them
(24:13):
while they're trying to get things established, with the full
intention of going back to that orphanage to go get
their kid once everything was okay, and then they would
go back and their child would be gone.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
So the country after the civil War, trying to get
some level of civics arranged, closed it to stop.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
All the bad stuff. Yes, yes, but who got caught up?
And that was the good people too, trying to do
the good thing well.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
And we were told from the beginning, oh, it'll just
be six months, and every six months it was another
six months for like years. But in the meantime, even
before they even closed, we found out shortly after we
got matched with Michael that he had a little brother
and would we be willing to adopt him too, Oh,
you're nuts, And so I mean again, just just at
(25:28):
the very beginning of learning about Liberia and the losses
that people had experienced and the brokenness and the pain,
I was like, if Michael lives with his little brother,
the last thing I want to do is separate him
from the family that he has. And so we agreed
that we would adopt both of those boys and he
would be our extra little blessing.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
So apparently what God put on your heart what God
put on Mark's heart were like one each.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yes, yes, I never thought about it.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
That seems to me.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
All right, Before we go forward, There's one other question
I have to ask that I think people want to
know but are often maybe too socially afraid to ask.
But I'm gonna ask it. But I want to be
as respectful and gentle with the topic as possible. But
I still think I need to ask it. To understand,
(26:24):
you're white, your husband's white, Your children are therefore white.
They are you live in Oa Claire, Wisconsin, which I assume.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Is pretty white.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
It is okay.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
I have seen mixed race adoption families before, and I
even hold them in even higher regard because.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
There has to be a little bit of a social stigma.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
You all have to overcome, the adopted kids, the family,
everything from a race standpoint. One. I don't want to
say did it give you pause, because I don't feel
like pauses in your vocabulary, really, but it had to
have been a consideration, and you had to have talked
(27:14):
to your own children about it, and I just want
to know. And again, I say this in the most
respectful way, because I genuinely think it's phenomenal that you
don't let something as insignificant as skin color stop you,
But unfortunately society says it as.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
A stops on sometimes. How did you handle that part.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
At the time is not a fair questions, Sure, I
think it's an important question too. I think at the time, Again,
our adoption story is really really long. So at the
time that we first got matched with Michael, we were
attending a church where a lot of families in the
church were adopting from Ethiopia, and so we felt like
if we adopted a child from Africa there he would
(28:00):
be at least part of a community of other kids
that looked like him in a place where there were
a lot of other adoptive families, and that would help
all of us, both biological kids and Michael and our
whole family feel like, you know, this was kind of
a normal thing that was part of what our our
church was doing at the time. We did not adopt
Michael at the and my kids were really little, so
(28:21):
you know, talking we talked to them about it, but
it wasn't like they had an opinion, I mean had
a strong opinion really, but we did not adopt Michael
until he was a teenager, and at the time that
our adoption was actually finally going through, I spent time
sitting down with other African American families in my community
and asked them, I'm like, what is it like to
go to high school in Auclaire as a as a
(28:45):
person of color and just try to get an idea
of you know, what is the what's the situation with
the police department in our town are they you know,
what is the relationship like with you know, people of
color and and the government. And I wanted to all
of that before we brought Michael into our community. And
I was really really happy. Selika Lawton is a friend
(29:07):
of mine and she's a community organizer. She's also professor
at Ewclaire and her son was attending the high school
that my son was going to attend. He had just graduated,
and was really really pleased to hear that our community
was doing well in trying to build a safe place
for everybody.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
That's very cool, all right.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
So I just asked Chatch Ebt, what, well, Claire, Wisconsin
one point five percent of the population is African American.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, pretty well, Yeah, that's that's more now than it
was ten years ago.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Adopted.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Okay, so all right, so let's go back because we
jumped from five to fifteen and the stories in the middle,
and spoiler alert for a body listening, this actually isn't
an adoption.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
It's it's a story about how adoption led to just
a phenomenal thing. But you guys had to understand everybody
needed to understand kind of how the entree happened. So
take us from Michael at five to Liberia.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Yeah, we like to call our story on our way
to somewhere else, because this was not the journey that
we had intended to go on. Mark and I we
had our four kids, and we were going to adopt
these two boys, and we were gonna keep living the
life that we had. I was a stay at home
mom at the time and Mark worked in the radio station,
and that was what we thought life was going to
(30:36):
look like. But six months after we were matched with Habakuk,
who was two years old at the time. He had
got malaria and he was sick, so he got in
treatment for that, but his grandpa had died and they
both the boys went back. No, just Habakuk went back
to the village where his grandpa had lived, where the
funeral was going to be. And in Liberia, when an
older person dies, it's a huge community event. So there
(30:56):
was a huge influx of people in that small village
and there's cholera outbreak and have a white break cholera.
Cholera is a wallet water borne illness, bacterial.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
I mean, I know what cholera is, but I didn't
know there were still outbreaks.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Yeah, and a lot of the developer dveloped. Yeah, so
Havoca got cholera and very very quickly he passed away.
We lost him.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
You're kidding, were you? There?
Speaker 1 (31:27):
No our contact at that time, So Peter Flomo, pastor
Peter was our contact there. And so someone had called
him from the village and said Habocock was sick. Peter
tried to get there to get him to take him
to a clinic for treatment, but because he had had
malaria and he was so small, he just died really
fast at two and a half.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
This is Michael's natural little brother who was going to
be your.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Sixth, our extra little blessing.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Okay, so oh now you are keenly aware what can do?
Speaker 1 (32:05):
I was so emotional so angry and like sad and frustrated.
I'm kind of mad at God really, because getting two
little boys from Africa was not my idea. He brought
this little boy into our lives, he planted him in
my art, and then six months later he's gone, and
(32:30):
I was just really adamant that this is not the
end of this story. The story does not end with
And then Habakuk died so I'd figure out. I'm like, okay,
what this is not? Okay? I call it stupid death.
And I call it stupid because there's no reason why,
in this day and age, anyone should have to die
(32:52):
from dirty drinking water. It just shouldn't happen. It shouldn't happen.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah, but you're in Wisconsin. They're literally halfway across the
globe and worn torn trying to recover Liberia. What are
you going to do about it? You're just a normal person.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
What am I going to do about it? Well, the
first thing I wanted to do was to put a
well in his village in his memory. That was how
I wanted to honor his life. Okay, So I through
the contacts that I had, I'm like, how do we
do this? And so they told me. And I'm actually
an introvert sort of by personality, so the idea of
(33:27):
getting up in front of people and raising a bunch
of money was not something I was eager to do.
But I was absolutely passionate about this. I was adamant
that we are going to do this.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
You're passion absolutely.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Do you know what we say all the time that
the amazing things in the world happen when normal people
employ their passion at an intersect with opportunity.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
You saw an opportunity, you had passion. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, So we raised the money for the well. We
got the money to library before any season so that
they could hand dig this well, and and then the well
went in in March of twenty ten, and my friends
went to Liberia for the well dedication, but I didn't go.
At the time. I saw the pictures, and I saw
the pictures, I'm like, I need to be there, and
my husband did not argue. So in October of twenty ten,
(34:16):
I went to Liberia for the first time to meet
Michael and to go to the community where have a cook.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Dad died. We'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Did Michael know that you guys were to be his
family eventually.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
You know. So Michael at that time was living with
Pastor Peter, so he had five biological kids. And I
couldn't tell you how many orphans were living with him
at the time, but Michael was staying with him. And
so when I got to Liberia, Peter said, Michael, this
is your mom. I of love and he was Michael,
(34:57):
he was five years old. He said nothing. I can't
see anything for when the world.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Went on in Michael's young life.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
To become an orphan up to five and then to
be said, Hi, this person who doesn't look anything like
you of America as your mom, now, well that has
to be a little bit of a shock for Michael.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
There are so many things that were hard for him
because up until then he had lived in the village
with his grandparents and he spoke their dialect, which was PLA,
so he didn't even which l.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
K E l l E okay, And that's a dialect.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Like one of the sixteen dialects in Liberia of the
like the.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
So it's almost a tribal language.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yep, yep, one of the languages in Liberia.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
One of the sixteen languages. Holy smokes, how do you
ever get anything done. Well.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Liberia was founded by freed American slaves, so English.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
I understand connecting language. I meant to look this up
for a mint.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
You met you President Monroe's administration. If I'm right about this, boy,
this is going back to like high school.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
But what didn't it whenn't it? Present and Rose.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Administration offered free slaves settlement back to Africa and our
country created Liberia, liber being the Latin for freedom or freeland,
and created Liberia for American free slaves.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Is that the American Colonization Society was the organization that
organized it all, and then it was funded by the
US government to help help people go back to Africa
to start the country.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
But when they showed up, there were still people living
there who were well no indigenous.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yeah, well that's because the.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
We can talk politics from Monroe area because it's not
today's politics.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Well, if you imagine the experience that these freed people
had in the United States, what it meant to be
in charge and what it meant to have power when
they went when they were in when they went to Liberia,
that was the type of society they understood. And so
(37:12):
in a lot of ways there ended up being a
lot of disparagement between the people who returned to Africa
and the people who are still living in indigenous Right. So,
like the motto of Liberia is love of freedom brought
us here, but that only represents ten percent of the population.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
The other ninety.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Percent were already.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
There and one of sixteen languages. Yeah, so how do
you even communicate about it?
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Well?
Speaker 1 (37:38):
And then honestly, the tension between the settlers and the
indigenous people there is what eventually fueled the civil war
in the eighties.
Speaker 4 (37:48):
Good intentions, yeah, yeah, and what ends up in that
carnage is children and holmlessness and cholera, abject poverty and
loss and all of it. Okay, So you show up
and pastor what's his name says, what's his name?
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Pastor Peter?
Speaker 4 (38:08):
Ye, Pastor Peter says, hey, Michael, yeah, suck, this is mom.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
So he yeah. So he was living with his grandparents.
His grandpa dies. He goes to Monrovia, now, which is
a totally different Liberia from the rural Liberia, but it
is yes, and speak English there.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
At all Costopolitan. Is it like a city at least?
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Yeah, there's a million there's at that time, there's a
million people in.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
That in the So he goes from this little village
without a well for drinking water to Monrovia.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Right where people are speaking English and he speaks palle
and they just PLoP them in school and they and
they said, how can he go to school if he
doesn't even speak English? And Peter's like, I'll learn Wow.
So he didn't talk, but part of that was because
he was still learning English.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Got it, yeah when.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
I met him.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Okay, so you're there, yep.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
So we're there, and I get a chance to go
visit the village and I get to see the well
and I'm trying to There's about three guys in the
village who have gone to school, so they can speak English.
Nobody else can speak English because no one else has
gone to school. No one can even read the inscription
in the well and have a cook's memory. So I go, okay,
(39:26):
how do we start a school? So I went back
home with the goal of starting a school in this village.
And then when I got home, my husband's like, well,
now you're traveling around the world, I want to go somewhere.
And I'm like, well, we have a kid in Liberia,
so why don't you go there? So six months later,
in March of twenty eleven, Mark and I went back
(39:47):
to Liberia together to dedicate the school that we were
opening there. And at that time Mark and Peter started
going around to other villages and sharing about God, and
we kept seeing community after community with no clean water
and no education and no medical care.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
And after that, I would assume orphans.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Sure, yeah, well, and it's hard to know who you
even are the orphans because they're all just living with somebody,
their neighbor or their grandma or their aunt or somebody.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
Is that is that a tribal cultural thing or is
that a disintegration of what that culture was supposed to
be because of all the war and everything that tore
the place off.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
The war disrupted everything, so it just it left an
entire generation of people just completely traumatized. Some of the
worst war atrocities that you've heard of happened in Liberia too,
like child soldiers and just awful, awful things happened to
(40:54):
kids that were witnesses to terrible things that their parents
were killed and women were assaulted, and kids were given
drugs to go fight this stupid war.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
Yeah, that's my understandings. They would give kids as young
as thirteen's drugs and a rifle and cooke them up
and just tell them go.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Shoot what they could shoot.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
I've also been told that the some it's not in here.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
I looked it up while I was on my phone
in a actual and a board meeting, and I don't
know the exact numbers, but something like seventy five percent
of sixteen year old females by the time they're sixteen
have been sexually assaulted in Liberia?
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (41:42):
The timeframe could be different during the wartime. I know
that's absolutely true. Assault of women in Liberia is still
incredibly high right now.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
It's rampant.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
So there's also an education there that needs to be had. Yep. Yeah, Okay,
So you know you and Mark from Eau Claire, Wisconsin
show up. You're going to change the country.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
I guess we are. I uh, you know, when I
came back from Liberia the first time, I was so angry.
I was just one day. I was just driving in
my car and I was just ranting to God and
I was just like, how in the world can you
be the god of the universe and allow kids to
die from dirty drinking water? And children never go to
school and all of these awful things that are having
(42:26):
liberal Why don't you do something? And I felt that
God was just patiently listening to me. And I'm gonna
tell you another story of God speaking to me, because
when I finally stopped and I was quiet, I felt
like God said, Peggy, I am doing something and I
want to do it through you. And I was like, Okay,
what do I do? Because I didn't know anything. I
(42:50):
didn't know anything about Liberia or how to help. I
had no background in this area. I don't know anything
about nonprofits. I know nothing. I know that I love
being a mom, and I know that I want to
adopt this little boy. And I have started to develop
some friendships in Liberia and so I we started Teamwork
Africa and I started asking them, I'm like, what can
(43:11):
we do?
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Like how you started the name Teamwork Africa?
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, peterful Amo, So our partner in Liberia actually came
up with that name. That was the name that he
had and so he was our teacher. He was our
guide to tell us what we could, how we could
make a difference in Liberia.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
So what was your goal with Teamwork Africa?
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Originally When we started, we were hoping that we would
work through churches to meet the spiritual and physical needs
of communities and that we would just do whatever it
was that the community needed. So we started out doing everything.
We did clean water projects, agriculture projects, micro loans, child sponsorship, education,
you name it. We tried it and were not, well,
(43:57):
we've been doing this now for a long time.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
But I mean at the beginning.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Yeah, it was so exciting in the beginning, like you
you know, it was great. You would go we'd do
these well dedications and people would be dancing and you know, laughing,
and it was it was amazing and it was great.
And then you know, six months later the wall would
break down and the guy who was trained to repair
it was gone. And so then we're like, well, this
(44:24):
wasn't a long term solution, Like you know, like it's
easy when you first start something and you really think
this is making a big difference, and then after you
do it for a decade and you look back and
you say, wow, this did not I didn't I was
hoping for more.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
And that concludes part one of my conversation with Peggy Halperson,
and you don't want to miss part two. It's now
we'll be able to listen to together.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Guys.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
We can change this country, but it starts with you.
I'll see in Part two.
I said, I'm not sure what to feel now about leaving.
I said, I hope Mother Teresa's quote is true. And
her quote is that I found this paradox that if
you love until it hurts, there could be no more hurts,
only more love. Because I have surely loved until it
hurts deeply. I have come across the world only to
find myself at home, a joy growing deep in my soul.
(00:22):
As long as I never forget the love, laughter, family,
and friendship that is here, it will always be with me.
So I have so much to do when I get home.
Feels a little overwhelming, but these memories and God's strength
will encourage me in my weakness. Everyone said that coming
here would change me, but I didn't understand how. When
I first arrived, I said that Liberia had a beauty
among the rubble, and I have found such beauty. And
(00:45):
it is the beauty, not the rubble, that has changed me.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Wow, and you're saying that with tears.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Yeah, yeah, Welcome to an army of normal folks.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
I'm a husband, a father, I'm an entrepreneur, and I've
been a football coach in Inner City Memphis. That last
part somehow led to an oscar for the film about
our team.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
That movie is called Undefeated.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
I believe our country's problems are never going to be
solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice clothes
using big words that nobody ever uses on CNN and Fox,
but rather by an army of normal folks. That's us,
just you and me deciding, Hey, you know what, maybe
I can help.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
That's exactly what Peggy Halverson, the voice you just heard,
has done.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
And as if adopting a child from Liberia in West
Africa wasn't enough, this journey opened Peggy's eyes to so
much else that she just could not look away from.
This was constant Mom's accidental nonprofit Teamwork Africa has since
built and repaired hundreds of wells in Liberia, started a
(02:04):
school there, and sponsors the education of hundreds of students.
I cannot wait for you to meet Peggy right after
these brief messages from our general sponsors.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Peggy Halverson, welcome to Memphis.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
When did you get here?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
About thirty minutes ago?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Oh you're just landed, you just flew in.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
You just got here.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
You stay in the night. Yes, where'd Alex put you
Peabody or.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Somewhere else Weston Memphis, Western.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Memphis, about Bill Street. Oh, that's right. I hope you
like music. That's in the middle of the blues district.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Oh, that's awesome, wonderful.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
From rum Boogie cat In two blocks from Cashes Rumboogie
and then up at Second and Deal is bb King's right. Yeah,
so you're in the cradle of the beginning of blues
and rock and roll.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
So that's super exciting.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Yeah, you might want to kind of pedal down there
and check it out. It's pretty cool. You're cross street
from the FedEx One. It's good place. So o Claire, Wisconsin.
All I know is that's a north Woods area. That's
where you came to us from. Where is that?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Where is Wisconsin?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
H Whereconson is? But Claire.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
When I was in Boston, people did not know where Wisconsin's.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
Okay, Well, I'm a little less geographically challenged.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Claire is on the west central side, so it's about
an hour's drive from the Twin Cities or Saint Paul, Minneapolis.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
I got it gets real cold up there in the winter.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
It sure does.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah. Is it hot there? Sure is? I mean hot
is relative.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
We've had one hundred and ten degree heat index down
here for last three weeks.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
This is a mild day. You got one.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah, well yeah, this weekend was pretty nice up there too.
The weekend before was in the nineties.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, that's hot for you guys, Yeah it was.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
It can get hot ball me. I wonder sometimes why
we live there. It gets really really cold. It's really hot.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, welcome to Memphis. Do you know Dave would I do?
Who's Dave would?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Dave and his wife Becky are wonderful supporters of Teamwork Africa.
They come to our events and you know, they've been
with us on our journey and when I had an
event recently, they were there and they were trying to
think about what what could they do that would help
Teamwork Africa, And they thought of this podcast and they thought, Hey,
wouldn't it be cool if Peggy and Teamark Africa could
be one of the ordinary folks or normal folks that
(04:46):
could be on the show.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So well, welcome. So here's the deal, everybody. Peggy Halverson
is the co founder and US executive director of Teamwork Africa,
which obviously we're going to get to because that's your
story while you're here lead up to it and kind
of set the table for it. We found out about
Peggy because Dave would did what we ask all of
(05:09):
you to do. Folks who are fans of an army
of normal folks who have joined the army of normal folks,
Folks who are regular listeners. We ask you.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Over and over again to email us about normal people
doing exceptional things in the world, and we'll find out
about them, and if if we feel like they fit,
we'll bring them to Memphis and tell their stories. And Peggy,
you were here because of the kindness of Dave Wood
reaching out and telling us a little bit about you.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
So Dave shout out to you.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Thank you so much for being a loyal listener and
for taking the five minutes to simply make a suggestion
that has now led to Peggy plopping down in Memphis
across from me to have a little chat.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
So ding ding for Dave Wood.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, they're awesome.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, that's awesome. So where'd you come from? What'd you
grow up?
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I grew up in rural Wisconsin, daughter of farming kids.
My parents book came from farming families, So I grew
up in We didn't live on a farm, but a
rural area, very small town, the kind that you drive
by and nobody knows.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Where it is, the one that you salute on he haw.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah, those for sure. Yep. I'm the oldest of three, oldest.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Of three, so pretty normal Midwestern American family.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
I sure thought.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
So.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah. Yeah, and your husband, yep, he.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Is a radio broadcaster in Oh really he is.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
He works radio, sitting right at home right.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Well, yeah, but I'm used to him in shops.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
But I'll be a radio broadcaster.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
You have an amazing voice, do you hear that?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Cash? That's right, I've got a face and a voice
for radio.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
So Alex posted, So I was screwing with a guest
from North Carroltin in Memphis. We claim very few things,
but we have our claims to fame, and we're pretty
devout about them.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
One is FedEx was founded and headquartered, which is a
big deal to US international paper. The first Holiday Inn
ever was here, and the founder and their families here here,
and back then there was no Hilton or Weston. I mean,
Holiday Inn set the stage for how we travel now.
Termin x AutoZone, most recently XAI is here, and so.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
We have, Yeah, not many your face and.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
You're wow right, wow.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Memphis has a lot going for it and not many
people know it. We get overshadowed by Nashville a lot.
The other thing we have is a deep rich heritage
and music, which is Elvis and I mean Aretha and
Isaac Cayes and Jerry Lee Lewis and Roy Orbison, I mean,
the list goes on and on. They all got their
(07:48):
start here, often at Sun Studios, which is still open.
And then before that, the blues. Rock and roll is
a is a conveilation of the blues from the Mississippi
Delta and rockabilly from the Hills. And when rockabilly, the
gospel and the blues collided, that's what made rock and
(08:10):
roll and that happened here. And so we as Memphians,
we brag all that. Know, we cashes, I mean, that's
our thing. And then so that's the arts, that's the business.
And then culturally it's barbecue World Championship, Barbecue contest is
(08:31):
here and all that, and so we appreciate that the
people in North Carolina, Texas and Kansas City try, but they.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Are minor league barbecue. I see, right, So I had
a guest.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Here from North Carolina not too long ago, and I
was giving her the business about her you know, nice
try on the barbecue, but let's be real kind of thing,
and he put it up on TikTok. And now I'm
getting dog cussed by about half the country over this
barber you thing.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Okay, So while you're here, yes, if you go taste
a little of the blues in the street also has
some nice little barbecue.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
You want to grab a river or two and.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
See, that would be very fun.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Okay. So now now we're past that.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
You guys, your your husband and you get married, have
a family, start having children, and a lovely normal American life,
but not and I don't mean this, but not anything
remarkable that would be right.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Just a normal, yeah, very normal life.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I thought.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Yeah, and we'll pick it up where a line I
read by you said, I felt like God had put
it on my heart that there was a little boy
that was supposed to be our son.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Did that come from?
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah, that's a great question. I was in our church,
and I was in our worship service.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
And you already had how many we had?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
We had three, and I was expecting our fourth and.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Had not adopted.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Right, these are four natural born what's your husband's name, Mark, Mark?
So these are Mark and Peggy offspring doing life.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Four kids. There's a lot to pay for. I mean,
I have four, so I know.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
And and so you're sitting in church and decides you
need to adopt also while you're pregnant.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Are you crazy?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Well, I was just listening. So I was in the
worship service, and I was worshiping, and I felt God
just speak that to my heart that they're and it
startled me. I walked out of the sanctuary and into
the lobby and there's a couple that I know there
that I really respected, who've done missions, and they's they're
all wholehearted for God. And I said, I just feel
(10:54):
like God told me something and I need you to
pray with me right now. And so they grabbed my
hands and I told them what I felt like I
got to put in my heart and they and they
prayed with me at that moment. And then I just
kept it in my heart quiet because we were expecting
our fourth child and my husband would absolutely think I
was crazy. Yeah, No, I didn't say anything. I just
(11:17):
I just kept it in my heart for a couple
of years and a couple of years later, he came
home from work one day and he had listened to
Stephen Kurst. Chapman was quoting John Piper saying that adoption
is the living Gospel, and he said, I think we
should adopt. And then I told him.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
How long is it between the two?
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, that's a good question. So it's two thousand and
five when I first heard that from the Lord, and
it was probably two thousand and seven. Couple of years,
A couple of years.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But first,
we're hosting two live interviews that I want to share
with you on August twentieth. We're hosting one in Memphis
with Peter Mudibasi, who is known as the foster dad
Flipper and is the most famous foster dad in all
(12:16):
of America. Peter is fostered get this forty seven kids,
has adopted three of them and is about to adopt
three more, and his radical love has gone viral. This
dude's got two point five million followers on social media.
To learn more and RSVP, visit foster dad Flipper dot
(12:41):
event bright dot com, Fosterdadflipper dot event Bright dot com
for August twentieth, a live interview with Peter Mudabasi, and
then on August twenty eighth, we're doing one in Oxford,
Mississippi with one of my mentors, and I dare call him,
(13:02):
dear friends, Sparky ridon Ole.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Miss was.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
So lucky to have Sparky as the Dean of students
when I was there, and many others, and he's now
authored a new book, The Dean Menoires and Missives. Guys,
I'm telling you this is something you don't want to miss.
I think we can just turn on the microphone and
I can say, hey, everybody, this is Sparky and shut up,
(13:28):
and he will entertain, inspire. He's a phenomenal guy. To
RSVP to that one visits Sparkyreardon dot event, Bright dot com.
That's Sparkyreardon dot event, Bright dot com and Oxford August
twenty eighth.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I hope you'll come to both. We'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Before we go any further, because I want our listeners
to stick with us. Okay, first, full disclosure, I'm a Christian.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
We are not a Christian show. We are not a
non Christian show. We are an army of normal folks.
And if you have an army of normal folks, you're
gonna have people of all different faiths, religions, belief sets
and everything else. So for our non Christian listeners, or
maybe more less devout listeners, I want to give you
(14:33):
an opportunity before we go further, to let folks know
who don't really understand quote God spoke to me. Some
people think that means God came down into vision with
a white robe and there was trumpets abusing.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I know, because that's ridiculous, right, But as ridiculous as
that sounds to you, it sounds to other peop people
who don't understand the depth of your faith and how
you feel like you're quote listening.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
So I would I would like for you to explain
for our listeners what that really means and how that
sounds and feels to your ears and your heart to
move you to want to go do something, because I
don't want to lose people who say, oh my gosh,
you know what, did an angel come down and PLoP
(15:28):
down the pew and look at her and talk to her?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
You know what I mean? Yeah, give give our give
our listeners an opportunity to understand what that what that means,
I think.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
That more people are led by the spirit of God
than they think. They don't. They wouldn't call it that
they maybe they would call it a different name. But
it's that that impression, that feeling that you should go
to the left today instead of to the right, like
(16:02):
there's or you should take that job tuition. Yeah, it
can feel like that, and I would say, you know,
I certainly have that experience too. There's only two times
or three maybe in my life where I had such
a strong impression that really came out of the blue
that I would actually call it. I felt like there
was some divine calling to do something, and that was
(16:24):
certainly one of them. But I feel like when you
are listening to you know, paying attention to the world
that you're in, that you're not so like that you
quiet down the noise. That each person has a purpose
for their life, and if they're quiet and they sit
still long enough, I feel like, whether whatever your tradition is,
(16:49):
I believe there's a force in the universe that's going
to guide you in the direction that you were supposed
that you were created to do. So for me as
a as a Christian, I call that God's voice, and
if you're not a Christian, then there's I still think
that you were created for a purpose and that when
you are still and listen for it, you'll find it.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Peggy, I think that is a beautiful explanation, and I
appreciate it because I want people to understand that you're
not some zellet out there thinking, yeah, it's funny that
you laugh because it sounds ridiculous to you. But some
non believers hear that and they recoil because they think,
oh my gosh, this is some zealot religious fanatic and
(17:32):
they think they're talking to God. And I don't want
people to get that impression when they hear it, because
that is not at all who you are, right And
I also feel like there's some times in my life
where I was quiet and still, which is very rare,
that I felt compelled, strongly convicted to do something in
(17:55):
my life, and I look back on it now and
I feel absolutely I was being led by my God
and my faith. So I think it's a beautiful explanation
of what you're saying, and I just want people to
kind of hear it from the horse's mouth because you're
the one who.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Felt what I think that there are times where people
can get really crazy ideas and that can happen. But
for me, especially for this particular thing, this wasn't the
outside of what I was expecting. I didn't do anything
with it for two years. I just sat and waited
because if this was from God, then it wasn't going
to be something that I was going to make happen.
(18:32):
It was a door that was open, and whenever the
time was right to walk through it, I was ready
to walk through it.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
And then Mark rolls in and says, we need to adopt.
Did you then share the hill? Yes?
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Then I shared it with him.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Well, now you guys are in. I mean, you've been
carrying this for two years. He rolls in, dumps it
on your lap, and you're like, well, guess what, Mark.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
But even then, even though I felt like it was Africa,
we didn't start with Africa. We actually looked at all
different kinds of adoption options. We looked at foster care
adoption and special needs adoption and international adoption to try
to find what was the right fit for our family,
and we were so overwhelmed by the information that we
(19:17):
found that that one of The first things we did
was we hosted a conference, a workshop in our community
called Hope for Forgotten Children, where we invited people to
come and learn about foster care, orphan care, and adoption.
And then it was actually through that that we met
the woman who was doing work in Liberia and actually
led us through the started us on the process of
adoption in Africa.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
So it was through that what's her name?
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Who she Her name was Donna?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
And what did she say and how did she know?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
She Well, she was doing humanitarian work in Liberia and
she was helping people getting matched with kids there and
at the time, Liberia was really easy to adopt from,
and so she had she had communic connections in Liberya
and she's like, hey, I can help you guys find
a kid to adopt if that's the direction you want
to go. And so we're like, okay, tell us more
(20:06):
so kidding, Yeah, yes, So I think we probably held
that conference in you know, in the summer, and we
started our home study and by December we had the
picture of a little boy and you know, from Liberia
and the email said could this be your son? And
we hadn't even finished the home study yet.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Okay, we Alex has plopped people guests down in front
of me to interview and Oh.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
You're gonna butcher this as you always do. All yeah,
I am going to butcher this. But I'll fix it.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
I know you will. Oh, by the way, it's like
Wizard of Oz. Ignore the man behind the curtain. He's
just an irritating thing. He'll sit over and say stuff
every once a while. Just act like he's not there. Okay,
that's rude. See, so I've interviewed I don't know, we've
probably had four or five interviews with folk past shows
(21:01):
that have been in and around the adoption world, certainly
never from Liberia. So you're first. I'm always struck by
the desire to adopt. I have four children that I adore.
They are now twenty eight, twenty nine, eight, twenty seven,
and twenty six. I adorn most times. Sometimes they're a
(21:23):
complete pain of the butt, but I do adorm in
general right, and as empathetic as I want to be
in the world, and as much positive I want to
do in the world, I cannot fathom inviting another headache
into my life, especially one that I did not create.
I think it takes I think it takes a special
(21:43):
design and empathy and heart and person to take on
what you take on, especially those that even consider special
needs kids, knowing they're bringing that into their home and
their life, into their own children's lives.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
So i't to tell you I'm in awe of people
like you.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
There's something inside of you that's just very, very special
that I do not have in me. Then comes the
work to actually do it, once you clear the hurdle
of being that kind of person. And I have been
astounded at the cost of this, the financial burden it
takes just to get adoption done. Sometimes walk us through
(22:28):
that initial process so that people understand that it's a
lot more than calling up Liberian saying hey, I'll take
a kid, ship them over.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, And our story is unique and probably would not
ever be repeated. But at the time that we were
matched with Michael in Liberia, you could petition the government directly,
So once you had your home study on the US side,
you could petition the Ministry of Gender in Liberia and
then they would do their background check or whatever. And
it was just a real simple process. And I don't
(23:01):
even remember what it was at the time, because it
didn't happen when we got masked with Michael in December
of two thousand and eight, and in January Liberia closed
to adoption. Yeah, lovely, because it was so easy to
adopt from Liberia that there was a huge amount of corruption.
So children were being adopted that weren't orphans. Children were
(23:22):
be adopted that had special needs, but it wasn't disclosed
to the adoptive families. There was extortion and bribery and
all kinds of awful, awful things.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Say child trafficking too, probably, I mean, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
I mean, I guess that's the definite. I mean, sending
a child home with other people who have parents without
their permission, I guess would be wrafficking. So there was
one story. So at that time again and this is
you know, surely Library had a twenty year civil war
(23:53):
from nineteen eighty nine to two thousand and four, and
so this is shortly after that. This was within four
or five years after that war had ended, and so
a lot of families were just really struggling. So as
nonprofits and aid was coming in adoption, orphanages were being
set up. So a lot of times parents would put
their kids in the orphanage to take care of them
(24:13):
while they're trying to get things established, with the full
intention of going back to that orphanage to go get
their kid once everything was okay, and then they would
go back and their child would be gone.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
So the country after the civil War, trying to get
some level of civics arranged, closed it to stop.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
All the bad stuff. Yes, yes, but who got caught up?
And that was the good people too, trying to do
the good thing well.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
And we were told from the beginning, oh, it'll just
be six months, and every six months it was another
six months for like years. But in the meantime, even
before they even closed, we found out shortly after we
got matched with Michael that he had a little brother
and would we be willing to adopt him too, Oh,
you're nuts, And so I mean again, just just at
(25:28):
the very beginning of learning about Liberia and the losses
that people had experienced and the brokenness and the pain,
I was like, if Michael lives with his little brother,
the last thing I want to do is separate him
from the family that he has. And so we agreed
that we would adopt both of those boys and he
would be our extra little blessing.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
So apparently what God put on your heart what God
put on Mark's heart were like one each.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yes, yes, I never thought about it.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
That seems to me.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
All right, Before we go forward, There's one other question
I have to ask that I think people want to
know but are often maybe too socially afraid to ask.
But I'm gonna ask it. But I want to be
as respectful and gentle with the topic as possible. But
I still think I need to ask it. To understand,
(26:24):
you're white, your husband's white, Your children are therefore white.
They are you live in Oa Claire, Wisconsin, which I assume.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Is pretty white.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
It is okay.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
I have seen mixed race adoption families before, and I
even hold them in even higher regard because.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
There has to be a little bit of a social stigma.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
You all have to overcome, the adopted kids, the family,
everything from a race standpoint. One. I don't want to
say did it give you pause, because I don't feel
like pauses in your vocabulary, really, but it had to
have been a consideration, and you had to have talked
(27:14):
to your own children about it, and I just want
to know. And again, I say this in the most
respectful way, because I genuinely think it's phenomenal that you
don't let something as insignificant as skin color stop you,
But unfortunately society says it as.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
A stops on sometimes. How did you handle that part.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
At the time is not a fair questions, Sure, I
think it's an important question too. I think at the time, Again,
our adoption story is really really long. So at the
time that we first got matched with Michael, we were
attending a church where a lot of families in the
church were adopting from Ethiopia, and so we felt like
if we adopted a child from Africa there he would
(28:00):
be at least part of a community of other kids
that looked like him in a place where there were
a lot of other adoptive families, and that would help
all of us, both biological kids and Michael and our
whole family feel like, you know, this was kind of
a normal thing that was part of what our our
church was doing at the time. We did not adopt
Michael at the and my kids were really little, so
(28:21):
you know, talking we talked to them about it, but
it wasn't like they had an opinion, I mean had
a strong opinion really, but we did not adopt Michael
until he was a teenager, and at the time that
our adoption was actually finally going through, I spent time
sitting down with other African American families in my community
and asked them, I'm like, what is it like to
go to high school in Auclaire as a as a
(28:45):
person of color and just try to get an idea
of you know, what is the what's the situation with
the police department in our town are they you know,
what is the relationship like with you know, people of
color and and the government. And I wanted to all
of that before we brought Michael into our community. And
I was really really happy. Selika Lawton is a friend
(29:07):
of mine and she's a community organizer. She's also professor
at Ewclaire and her son was attending the high school
that my son was going to attend. He had just graduated,
and was really really pleased to hear that our community
was doing well in trying to build a safe place
for everybody.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
That's very cool, all right.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
So I just asked Chatch Ebt, what, well, Claire, Wisconsin
one point five percent of the population is African American.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, pretty well, Yeah, that's that's more now than it
was ten years ago.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Adopted.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Okay, so all right, so let's go back because we
jumped from five to fifteen and the stories in the middle,
and spoiler alert for a body listening, this actually isn't
an adoption.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
It's it's a story about how adoption led to just
a phenomenal thing. But you guys had to understand everybody
needed to understand kind of how the entree happened. So
take us from Michael at five to Liberia.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Yeah, we like to call our story on our way
to somewhere else, because this was not the journey that
we had intended to go on. Mark and I we
had our four kids, and we were going to adopt
these two boys, and we were gonna keep living the
life that we had. I was a stay at home
mom at the time and Mark worked in the radio station,
and that was what we thought life was going to
(30:36):
look like. But six months after we were matched with Habakuk,
who was two years old at the time. He had
got malaria and he was sick, so he got in
treatment for that, but his grandpa had died and they
both the boys went back. No, just Habakuk went back
to the village where his grandpa had lived, where the
funeral was going to be. And in Liberia, when an
older person dies, it's a huge community event. So there
(30:56):
was a huge influx of people in that small village
and there's cholera outbreak and have a white break cholera.
Cholera is a wallet water borne illness, bacterial.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
I mean, I know what cholera is, but I didn't
know there were still outbreaks.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Yeah, and a lot of the developer dveloped. Yeah, so
Havoca got cholera and very very quickly he passed away.
We lost him.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
You're kidding, were you? There?
Speaker 1 (31:27):
No our contact at that time, So Peter Flomo, pastor
Peter was our contact there. And so someone had called
him from the village and said Habocock was sick. Peter
tried to get there to get him to take him
to a clinic for treatment, but because he had had
malaria and he was so small, he just died really
fast at two and a half.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
This is Michael's natural little brother who was going to
be your.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Sixth, our extra little blessing.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Okay, so oh now you are keenly aware what can do?
Speaker 1 (32:05):
I was so emotional so angry and like sad and frustrated.
I'm kind of mad at God really, because getting two
little boys from Africa was not my idea. He brought
this little boy into our lives, he planted him in
my art, and then six months later he's gone, and
(32:30):
I was just really adamant that this is not the
end of this story. The story does not end with
And then Habakuk died so I'd figure out. I'm like, okay,
what this is not? Okay? I call it stupid death.
And I call it stupid because there's no reason why,
in this day and age, anyone should have to die
(32:52):
from dirty drinking water. It just shouldn't happen. It shouldn't happen.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah, but you're in Wisconsin. They're literally halfway across the
globe and worn torn trying to recover Liberia. What are
you going to do about it? You're just a normal person.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
What am I going to do about it? Well, the
first thing I wanted to do was to put a
well in his village in his memory. That was how
I wanted to honor his life. Okay, So I through
the contacts that I had, I'm like, how do we
do this? And so they told me. And I'm actually
an introvert sort of by personality, so the idea of
(33:27):
getting up in front of people and raising a bunch
of money was not something I was eager to do.
But I was absolutely passionate about this. I was adamant
that we are going to do this.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
You're passion absolutely.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Do you know what we say all the time that
the amazing things in the world happen when normal people
employ their passion at an intersect with opportunity.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
You saw an opportunity, you had passion. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, So we raised the money for the well. We
got the money to library before any season so that
they could hand dig this well, and and then the well
went in in March of twenty ten, and my friends
went to Liberia for the well dedication, but I didn't go.
At the time. I saw the pictures, and I saw
the pictures, I'm like, I need to be there, and
my husband did not argue. So in October of twenty ten,
(34:16):
I went to Liberia for the first time to meet
Michael and to go to the community where have a cook.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Dad died. We'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Did Michael know that you guys were to be his
family eventually.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
You know. So Michael at that time was living with
Pastor Peter, so he had five biological kids. And I
couldn't tell you how many orphans were living with him
at the time, but Michael was staying with him. And
so when I got to Liberia, Peter said, Michael, this
is your mom. I of love and he was Michael,
(34:57):
he was five years old. He said nothing. I can't
see anything for when the world.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Went on in Michael's young life.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
To become an orphan up to five and then to
be said, Hi, this person who doesn't look anything like
you of America as your mom, now, well that has
to be a little bit of a shock for Michael.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
There are so many things that were hard for him
because up until then he had lived in the village
with his grandparents and he spoke their dialect, which was PLA,
so he didn't even which l.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
K E l l E okay, And that's a dialect.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Like one of the sixteen dialects in Liberia of the
like the.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
So it's almost a tribal language.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yep, yep, one of the languages in Liberia.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
One of the sixteen languages. Holy smokes, how do you
ever get anything done. Well.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Liberia was founded by freed American slaves, so English.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
I understand connecting language. I meant to look this up
for a mint.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
You met you President Monroe's administration. If I'm right about this, boy,
this is going back to like high school.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
But what didn't it whenn't it? Present and Rose.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Administration offered free slaves settlement back to Africa and our
country created Liberia, liber being the Latin for freedom or freeland,
and created Liberia for American free slaves.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Is that the American Colonization Society was the organization that
organized it all, and then it was funded by the
US government to help help people go back to Africa
to start the country.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
But when they showed up, there were still people living
there who were well no indigenous.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yeah, well that's because the.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
We can talk politics from Monroe area because it's not
today's politics.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Well, if you imagine the experience that these freed people
had in the United States, what it meant to be
in charge and what it meant to have power when
they went when they were in when they went to Liberia,
that was the type of society they understood. And so
(37:12):
in a lot of ways there ended up being a
lot of disparagement between the people who returned to Africa
and the people who are still living in indigenous Right. So,
like the motto of Liberia is love of freedom brought
us here, but that only represents ten percent of the population.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
The other ninety.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Percent were already.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
There and one of sixteen languages. Yeah, so how do
you even communicate about it?
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Well?
Speaker 1 (37:38):
And then honestly, the tension between the settlers and the
indigenous people there is what eventually fueled the civil war
in the eighties.
Speaker 4 (37:48):
Good intentions, yeah, yeah, and what ends up in that
carnage is children and holmlessness and cholera, abject poverty and
loss and all of it. Okay, So you show up
and pastor what's his name says, what's his name?
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Pastor Peter?
Speaker 4 (38:08):
Ye, Pastor Peter says, hey, Michael, yeah, suck, this is mom.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
So he yeah. So he was living with his grandparents.
His grandpa dies. He goes to Monrovia, now, which is
a totally different Liberia from the rural Liberia, but it
is yes, and speak English there.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
At all Costopolitan. Is it like a city at least?
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Yeah, there's a million there's at that time, there's a
million people in.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
That in the So he goes from this little village
without a well for drinking water to Monrovia.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Right where people are speaking English and he speaks palle
and they just PLoP them in school and they and
they said, how can he go to school if he
doesn't even speak English? And Peter's like, I'll learn Wow.
So he didn't talk, but part of that was because
he was still learning English.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Got it, yeah when.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
I met him.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Okay, so you're there, yep.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
So we're there, and I get a chance to go
visit the village and I get to see the well
and I'm trying to There's about three guys in the
village who have gone to school, so they can speak English.
Nobody else can speak English because no one else has
gone to school. No one can even read the inscription
in the well and have a cook's memory. So I go, okay,
(39:26):
how do we start a school? So I went back
home with the goal of starting a school in this village.
And then when I got home, my husband's like, well,
now you're traveling around the world, I want to go somewhere.
And I'm like, well, we have a kid in Liberia,
so why don't you go there? So six months later,
in March of twenty eleven, Mark and I went back
(39:47):
to Liberia together to dedicate the school that we were
opening there. And at that time Mark and Peter started
going around to other villages and sharing about God, and
we kept seeing community after community with no clean water
and no education and no medical care.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
And after that, I would assume orphans.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Sure, yeah, well, and it's hard to know who you
even are the orphans because they're all just living with somebody,
their neighbor or their grandma or their aunt or somebody.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
Is that is that a tribal cultural thing or is
that a disintegration of what that culture was supposed to
be because of all the war and everything that tore
the place off.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
The war disrupted everything, so it just it left an
entire generation of people just completely traumatized. Some of the
worst war atrocities that you've heard of happened in Liberia too,
like child soldiers and just awful, awful things happened to
(40:54):
kids that were witnesses to terrible things that their parents
were killed and women were assaulted, and kids were given
drugs to go fight this stupid war.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
Yeah, that's my understandings. They would give kids as young
as thirteen's drugs and a rifle and cooke them up
and just tell them go.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Shoot what they could shoot.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
I've also been told that the some it's not in here.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
I looked it up while I was on my phone
in a actual and a board meeting, and I don't
know the exact numbers, but something like seventy five percent
of sixteen year old females by the time they're sixteen
have been sexually assaulted in Liberia?
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (41:42):
The timeframe could be different during the wartime. I know
that's absolutely true. Assault of women in Liberia is still
incredibly high right now.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
It's rampant.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
So there's also an education there that needs to be had. Yep. Yeah, Okay,
So you know you and Mark from Eau Claire, Wisconsin
show up. You're going to change the country.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
I guess we are. I uh, you know, when I
came back from Liberia the first time, I was so angry.
I was just one day. I was just driving in
my car and I was just ranting to God and
I was just like, how in the world can you
be the god of the universe and allow kids to
die from dirty drinking water? And children never go to
school and all of these awful things that are having
(42:26):
liberal Why don't you do something? And I felt that
God was just patiently listening to me. And I'm gonna
tell you another story of God speaking to me, because
when I finally stopped and I was quiet, I felt
like God said, Peggy, I am doing something and I
want to do it through you. And I was like, Okay,
what do I do? Because I didn't know anything. I
(42:50):
didn't know anything about Liberia or how to help. I
had no background in this area. I don't know anything
about nonprofits. I know nothing. I know that I love
being a mom, and I know that I want to
adopt this little boy. And I have started to develop
some friendships in Liberia and so I we started Teamwork
Africa and I started asking them, I'm like, what can
(43:11):
we do?
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Like how you started the name Teamwork Africa?
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, peterful Amo, So our partner in Liberia actually came
up with that name. That was the name that he
had and so he was our teacher. He was our
guide to tell us what we could, how we could
make a difference in Liberia.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
So what was your goal with Teamwork Africa?
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Originally When we started, we were hoping that we would
work through churches to meet the spiritual and physical needs
of communities and that we would just do whatever it
was that the community needed. So we started out doing everything.
We did clean water projects, agriculture projects, micro loans, child sponsorship, education,
you name it. We tried it and were not, well,
(43:57):
we've been doing this now for a long time.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
But I mean at the beginning.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Yeah, it was so exciting in the beginning, like you
you know, it was great. You would go we'd do
these well dedications and people would be dancing and you know, laughing,
and it was it was amazing and it was great.
And then you know, six months later the wall would
break down and the guy who was trained to repair
it was gone. And so then we're like, well, this
(44:24):
wasn't a long term solution, Like you know, like it's
easy when you first start something and you really think
this is making a big difference, and then after you
do it for a decade and you look back and
you say, wow, this did not I didn't I was
hoping for more.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
And that concludes part one of my conversation with Peggy Halperson,
and you don't want to miss part two. It's now
we'll be able to listen to together.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Guys.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
We can change this country, but it starts with you.
I'll see in Part two.
Host
Bill Courtney
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