March 18, 2025 • 51 mins
Vox writer Rachel Cohen had disregarded individual action as an unhelpful distraction to the more important systemic change that was needed to solve our problems. And then she had a change of heart & mind. She wrote an extraordinary article about her transformation that’s titled "Why I Changed My Mind About Volunteering" and we dive deep into it with her.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Everybody. It's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks.
And we continue now what part two of our conversation
with Rachel Cohen, right after these brief messages from our
general sponsors, undatabased thought coming from me to you, love
(00:34):
to hear what you think about it. I think that
pervasive generational construct regarding daily interaction of giving and philanthropy
verse grassroots, big motivation, policy seeking efforts that you describe
(00:59):
those are my works. But that's about right, right, that's
about what you're saying. There's those two verses, right. I
think that in and of itself has been part of
the breakdown in our communities of knowing your neighbor. I
(01:27):
also think that participation, membership and weekly engagement and houses
of worship in our country synagogues, churches, bosques, all of them,
it's all down, it's all down, has also had a
(01:47):
destructive effect on community and engagement. And you know, I
go to church with Democrats and Republicans. I go to
church with progressives and conservatives. I go to church with
people of different races I do today, and you know,
(02:11):
we see each other differently than those who do not
commune in any way shape or form, and then when
we separate ourselves into this large you know, this is
the only way we're going to affect change, and you're
not interacting on a daily basis with people who aren't
(02:32):
necessarily just like you, it breaks down community. And then
when break community breaks down, so does the desire for philanthropy.
That is, I have absolutely no basis in that. It's
that that's just my feel I would love to hear
your perspective on that, after doing the work that you did,
research and all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I mean, I totally agree. I think that's weird from
a person your age to agree to.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
People think a lot of people your age will, including
some one of my own children, think I'm outdated fuddy daddy.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Well I think. I mean, what I think is challenging is.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
I I was like, it would be easier if there
had been some sort of you know, alternative institution, community
institution that provided this thing that uh, you know, faith
based institutions did.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
But well, I'm not just saying faith based. Yes, I'm
saying the that's one of them. But I'm also saying
this idea that we got to convalesce around this one
movement and then use big organizations and government to go
change it all. Well, that breaks down community.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
That too, Oh, I see, I mean do you feel that?
But you're saying you you don't feel like that's happened
with the people at your church shortly?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I do you do.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
It's why there's not many people at church now as
there was twenty years ago, because they convalesce around these
big Yeah you see what I'm saying, they end up
worshiping something different.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I see, yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
I mean, I do feel like people are just siloing
and stereotyping each other and not interacting in ways that
would we were talking abo this earlier that would allow
you to realize, oh, we're not We're not different.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
That's what I'm saying. That's the community I think we're
missing in the.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Port and figuring out how to build institutions that might
I mean, so you know, I'm my fans and I
are talking about having kids and I We're like, okay,
we have kids, Well we'll join you know. I mean,
he's not Jewish, but we're going to join a synagogue.
And I'm part of what is What I'm excited about is, oh,
(05:01):
that will be a place that will make service things
much more easy for me, even though I've since found
other organizations, But I am suddenly excited about having a
place that just makes all of that organizing easier.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
But there's just a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Who But I also understand why people aren't joining things
like that, and we needed to.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, I don't want you to understand me. I'm not
saying we need to bring about churches and synagogues and
make every join to save the world. I'm not saying that.
I'm just saying I wondered if in the research you did,
you found that as we continue to polarize because we
don't have these things to convalesce around together, and as
(05:42):
we continue to lean on bigger and bigger organizations to
fix it, that one of the side, one of maybe
the unittended side consequences is community extone.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
I mean I think that community, I think that it
is bringing down I think the only thing that I
would say, I feel like people would push back on
is the at least as I sort of have observed it,
A lot of the people that are well, they're putting
faith in is not necessarily another organization. Most of them
(06:25):
have totally given up faith in the political parties. You
know and they but there's sort of like faith in
the possibility of a movement of people, like sort of
this idea of a grassroots movement that will ultimately, you know,
lead to the politics and endpoint. And I think that
that just doesn't actually exist in the way that they
(06:45):
wanted to, and so then they don't find it. But
I don't think it's that everyone has pinned their hopes on,
you know, the Sierra Club or something like that, per se.
I think it's more like hoping that if we galvanize
enough people to be upset enough with the status quo,
we'll be able to like ultimately push for the change
(07:08):
that we need that will make us feel better. But
I also don't think that even getting certain change that
they want is what's going to lead to like the
well being, because I think that's more it gives me hope.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
What did a thirty something year old kid woke up
and gave blood? All we needs millions of those we do?
That changes everything. There comes your community, because I don't
care if you're left of center and Jewish and I'm
right of center and Christian. I am so happy and
(07:41):
proud that you're giving blood. And if I'm laying dead
in a puddle one day and your blood saves my life.
I'm pretty good with you, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
But that's the power of an army and normal folks,
that's the power of service, that's the power of Philanthroy.
It breaks down all these to me. Yeah, And I
just want to know if that's what you found and
you feel And I mean.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
I definitely feel that. I don't know if I think that.
I think I have found that a lot of people
want our feeling for us, are feeling dissatisfied with their
wondering if they could be doing more, if they if
there's a better way to be making change. I think
a lot of people like I think that is really
(08:27):
a serious thing where a lot of people are like,
what is the best way that I can make change?
And that has led over time, I think, to a
decline in service. And I just think part of what
I am hoping, and I think your podcast has a
lot to do is helping people realize like, actually, you
can make so much change, even the big change that
you want to make, because I think a lot of
(08:47):
I think that, you know, people do people do want
to see structural change too. Maybe you call it top down.
I think I think for a lot of people, they
don't see this top down per se because they think
it's you know, coming from the bottom up ultimately. But
I do think that that it was a mistake to
conclude that this local service, you know, helping your neighbor
(09:11):
stuff is not deeply connected to all of that big
change that people say they want it least.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
And by the way, you asked, so I'll turn to
it now. So many in my generation decided that government
was discourage of the world. Well that's also not true.
We need a government, we need services, we need those things.
(09:39):
So I think the answer, as always is a combination
of the two extremes. Obviously, we need government to provide
services and defense and all kinds of stuff. But it's
like a pendulum, you know, this pendulum you're talking about,
swings to all this individu dual service is just a
(10:01):
bunch of junk, and then the other pendulum goes all
the way here, and we should dismantle the whole government.
Government's the problem with everything, And the truth is somewhere
in the middle is really the sweet spot. And we
can find that sweet spot together if we can simply
(10:21):
have a community where we can convel us around something
other than the extreme differences. And that's why your article
is so important to me, is because it's not somebody
on the right preaching. It's somebody there left sharing and
(10:45):
it's a much different perspective that I think is really
really important. We'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
I think there are a lot of I mean not everyone,
but I think there are a lot of people who
maybe are on this like pendulum over here, who had
dismissed it, who liked me, had just never really thought, oh,
why haven't I donated or like there, you know, they
haven't been reached by people who.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Or you know.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I think there's more all of us can do to
sort of say, hey, why don't you join me in
coming to like donating.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Here's a wish list the shelter needs. Why don't we
like split it?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
And I think there is I think a lot of people.
It would be great if everyone stepped up on their
own and I sort of went through I would say,
more unique journey in that way. But I feel like
there are a lot of there are millions of people
who want to get to that. I think exactly what
you're gonna sort of middle grounded, like, Okay, maybe maybe
(12:02):
there is a better path. And I think all those
people are would are very normal, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, so I am curious. I know, you had to
have gotten responses from people that are typically right of
center and left and center and everything else. I'm just
I'm really curious is what the response was and what
kind of feedback you got besides someone's just like, oh,
you're an idiot. I get those two I'm talking about
that actually, the ones that even made you think more
(12:34):
maybe totally.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I mean I have, I have really appreciated. I definitely.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
You know, heard from some more conservative readers too, who
were like, huh, I went and not expecting to like this,
but it actually was not too bad, you know, and
or like oh I hate your news organization, but this
was good, you know, stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
But doesn't that isn't that in and of itself? Yes,
it isn't that telling? Yes, that how quickly we can
come I die. Yeah, one article I expected to hate
what you had to say, and hey, I just wanted
to let you know, I really appreciate what you had
to say. One article that's walls crumbling.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Totally, you know, I got one reader emailed me to say,
you know, express her you know, connection to the article,
and she actually put an organization on my radar that
I hadn't heard about in DC, and now I've been
volunteering with them every month since August.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
It's they're called We Are Family.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
They delivered groceries to low income seniors in my neighborhood
that I didn't.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Even know existed.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
So that was really awesome and I'm such a fan
of that group now. And I think something that happened
a month after the essay came out, there.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Was a this report released.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
It was this three million dollar effort by a bunch
of kind of big wigs in philanthropy, had the Aspen Institute,
the Salvation Army, some of the big foundations and philanthropists
wanted to commission studies over the last couple of years
to get a clear state of what giving and volunteering
(14:20):
looks like in America. It was at I wrote about
this a month later. It wasn't an essay, just sort
of a write up. Here's what the Generosity Commission, that's
what it was called found. It was a little bit
of a frustrating document because they were like, more research
is needed, you know, we don't, we need to fund
more studies. But one of the things that they found,
which I found, you know, agitating, was and I realized,
(14:44):
this isn't directly respond to your question, so I'll get
back to that. But a lot of money in total
to nonprofits is actually going up.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
But by the number of donors is going down.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
So you have really rich people, know that, continuing to
give a lot of money, but by and so then
there was this question, Okay, so why does that matter?
You know, if these organizations are getting funding, is their
reason to be freaking out? And part of the answer is, well,
not every organization is getting funding the total nonprofit sector.
You might, but there's obviously especially smaller community based organizations
(15:21):
are not getting these million dollar grants that some of
the bigger groups are getting.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
And then but then.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Also this point that actually giving is carries benefits to
the giver that we are losing in the society if
people don't realize that. And one of the more interesting
parts of the Generosity Commission's work that I found was
they have been identifying these links that make sense but
(15:47):
have not really been spelled out before, about if you
donate to a charity, you're ten points more likely to
vote to then also get involved in an organization. Like
all of these different social activities are actually really interconnected.
And it's like donating blood. Well they didn't say that,
but you know, I think I think people who donate
(16:08):
blood are more likely to then probably donate money and
things like that.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
And community engagement is contagious, Yes, it absolutely is.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
And I think we just have to figure out how
to help grow in normal folks.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Grow an army of normal folks exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I'm serious. I know it sounds so promoting and maybe
even ghost to say it like that, but I'm telling
you to me, just what happens if there's three million
more of views that have an awakening this year and
three million more the next year.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
What that's a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
How hard is it to understand the person on the
sidewalk freezing, If you hand them a pair of socks,
you enrich their life that day.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
And I think, to your also to your point, like
it is really bad for our country, for our democracy.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
I increasingly feel this very strongly.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
If people don't have don't feel that they themselves can
be part of making the world better, like having that
sense of belief is so important to mental health, Like
we don't talk about that, and everyone's talking about the
mental health crisis, but I think making people feel a
sense of agencies so integral to that. And I grew
(17:28):
up like being told, you know, you can be whatever
you want. Obviously that's not totally true, but you know,
And I feel like today, I feel sad when I
hear some of the messages that you know, ninth graders
are hearing from politicians about everything being broken and how
sort of every single thing is falling up and there
(17:50):
are real challenges for sure, But I also worry about
people just losing sense of hope and agency and optimism
because I think I think they still have it, like
we should. We should help them see that they still
have it and be I think it's just makes people
feel terrible, and that is also not If everyone feels terrible,
(18:11):
that's going to have terrible effects too.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
With regard to our country, a very basic fundamental is
it's hard to love something you don't have a stake in. Therefore,
by encouraging people to have a stake in their community,
thus their city, thus their state, thus their country, they
(18:35):
will have more love for this republic of ours, and
the further you withdraw from it, the less you're going
to care for it. And if we take care of
our republic, it can take care of us. But if
we abuse it, where does that leave us? One day?
Speaker 3 (18:51):
How do you think, like, what do you think about
when in the question of how to make people feel
more of a sense of responsibility for were.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Things?
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Because I think right now a lot of people don't
feel that as much because they feel like what they
do doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, I'm supposed to be the one asking a question.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Do you think about this a lot? So I'm just curious.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I I think at the at the very basic root level,
this may sound goofy, but I think it needs to
be cool to give again. And I think people like
you are the answer that because you talked about you
(19:36):
weren't lonely and you had community, all right, Well, how
many of that community were.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Doing a thing like a very little now, how.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Many in that community see you or inspired by you?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I think I think some people were, so that was cool.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
It's contagious the general.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
I will add this the Generosity commissioned And I hadn't
really thought about this, but it does kind of make sense.
So part of what they did in this report they
came out was also recommendations for how to like They
definitely took a position that donating to nonprofits is a
good thing. Now in my essay, I did, you know,
(20:17):
talk with one scholar who was sort of saying, we
should stop prioritizing five oh one c three's as like
the utmost good, like caring for your family is just
as good.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
So there's a debate in.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
The world of philanthropy over like what what should count,
et cetera. But at least for this Generosity Commission, they
took the stance that, no, we should figure out a
way to make people feel like donating and volunteering with
nonprofits is something to do. They see it as you know,
integral to American identity and history, et cetera, and just
(20:50):
like our civil society is different from Europe or other places.
And so one of the recommendations they had was to
invest more in like spokespeople and marketing and telling the
story about why it matters and getting out some of
this information.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
And I think there have been.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Campaigns in the past around this stuff, but I don't
but they were sort of saying, like, you know, you
could imagine Hollywood, or or after football players or whatever.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
That's my problem with spokesperson and all that stuff. It's
just reads like another commercial. Yeah, and we're over commercialized.
I think I think storytelling and again I mean this though,
I think storytelling about it's about relatability, Okay. I mean,
(21:41):
whoever's listening to us right now, that's driving their car
down their road with their two point three kids on
the back of the expedition, going on their one vacation,
working hard to pay bills and keep their kids clothed,
and all of the things we have going on. Or
I think about one guy that's an over the road
truck driver that listens to us all the time, and
(22:03):
he's constantly emailing those ideas. In fact, we name something
after him. And I think about this cross section of people.
They're not going to relate to Tom Brady telling everybody
to get your dog spade neutered or whatever, okay, but
(22:27):
they will relate to another person just like them who
has a story about they had a passion for a
particular thing, they saw an opportunity in their community, and
they filled it and then they've had this amazing success
helping people in their community and telling that story about
(22:50):
a very normal, average, relatable person. I think you're right,
And hopefully the message behind that is if they can
do it, you can too. They're just average people. They're
not part of that big, huge, grassroots, massive effort trying
to make They're just making small change in their community.
But if one can affect five that means three million
(23:14):
can affect fifteen man. That means fifteen min can affect
eighty five million. And that to me is what grassroots,
bottom up service and philanthropy looks like. And if you'll
think about the community that could grow from that, and
to you, to your world, the social change that could
(23:36):
come from that, you ask how, I think that's how?
I genuinely think that's how.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, I think you're right because I think I agree
if I saw, like, I don't know, Taylor Swift talk
about this like it wouldn't do anything. But I think
what people well, I think people in my you know,
stage of life, et cetera. I want to see as
(24:04):
someone who is juggling all the same things that they're juggling,
who are weighing all the same questions about well, is
this worth it? Is it effect, like are they gonna
waste my money?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Is it actually useful? And then just like showing like
yes you can, here's how, of course you can. This
is how These are the ways you can do it,
and this is the benefit. This is the positive impacts
you'll have.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
And I think you're right that.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I mean, maybe maybe those big foundations will fund storytelling
from average people.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I mean that.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
We'll be right back. How do you feel? How do
(25:03):
you feel? What's it make you feel like? I don't
think people understand enough that when it's a very human
part of our DNA, that when we actually do something
for another person and we see the results of our
work in their happiness or maybe they're just having a
(25:24):
better day today or maybe them being able to do
something a little better for their kids, that that creates
a sense of euphoria in us that nothing else does.
And you talk about the blood given, I get it.
But what's it feel like when you drop off a
(25:44):
box of groceries to underserve seniors?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
It feels good.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
It feels like I am living my life according to
the values that I want.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
To be living.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
And when you're not living that, like even if it
you realize that I think just like taking steps and
realizing that, oh, I can prioritize this, and I can,
I can help make the world better and I can.
I mean, it sounds corny, but it is really true
that you just it feels good to feel like you're
(26:22):
spending this short time on earth not wasting scrolling in
your phone, but doing something for other people. And I
think one of the awakening insights that I had from
the whole article process was, you know, so many of
the ideas of self care that we have in our
(26:43):
society are around like buying stuff or getting a beauty treatment,
or or going to a fitness class or.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
You know, a nicer car.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
And it was just it was it was pretty agitating
to realize, oh, self care at least as you know
my you know, we talked about it. What you hear
on TikTok, what you see online is not is so
rarely phrases serving other people because it's all focused on
doing things for yourself. And it just was sort of, oh, well, a,
(27:14):
you actually are doing something for yourself when you serve
other people, and you actually probably feel better if you
get out of your own head and go do something
for someone else and just kind of for me, being
in motion is helpful.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
And not that. I mean, there's lots of service that's
not emotion, but yeah, I was.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
It was It was not what I it's not why
I started all this stuff, but it was something I
was very.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Pleased to discover.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
And once I sort of figured that out, and then
I thought, why are people? You know, I feel like
people aren't talking about this that much? Is it because
it feels like something we should not, you know, you
should only focus on the selfless parts of service, and
that it could mess up the.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
You know, altruism.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
But obviously the person who's getting your health doesn't care
if you feel like. They don't want you to feel bad.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
They don't want to it really is it? Really?
Speaker 3 (28:11):
It just is good to remember. I would say, I
feel good doing it. I feel good prioritizing it. I
feel good trying to build a life that aligns with
the values that I say I have.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
You know, I think there's a distinction. If your life
is enriched and you feel mentally and emotionally and spiritually
more healthy as a result of engaging in your community,
there's nothing wrong with that as long as that's not
the motive. As long as the motive is serving someone
(28:48):
that is not as blessed as you. If the byproduct
of the right motivation, the right work is you also
become enriched in your own life. Why is a shared
communal experience not a beautiful thing?
Speaker 5 (29:03):
Here's a really interesting insight in the article, Rachel, where
you say billionaires can talk about their gifts and like
what it does for them, but we're not allowed to
talk about what it does for us.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
I read this book and it was the author had
interviewed a lot of rich billionaires about why they give,
and they all were like, oh, I just you know.
They were all so open, like, oh, I just you know,
I love the way it makes me feel. I love
helping people. It just makes you feel great. And I
was like, huh, Like they're not hiding that aspect of it.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Something wrong? Why do we Yeah, if you're motivated because
it checks a box at work on your philanthropic giving,
or you appreciate the backslaps, or it makes you feel
good because their bie thinks you're the nice guy in town, fine,
that's that's not it. But if you're motivated by the
simple edification of someone who's not as blessed as you
(29:57):
and oh, by the way, you get to feel good.
That's a beautiful thing totally. And a billionaire giving away
a whole bunch of money because they actually are invested
in or care about an organization and want to see
people thrive from their riches and they happen to feel
good about it. I've got no problem with that, as
(30:18):
long as they're not out there tweeting on Facebook or Twitter,
whatever that stuff is x X tiktoking or whatever look
at me, you know, if it's not about look at me,
then But one.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Thing I guess I would maybe push back just a
tiny bit on is I think for a lot of people,
like voting, like donating blood. And this was actually I
talk about this in the essay, this concept from the
Torrea called vanes, which is kind of like do and
(30:55):
then you'll understand. I think if you are sort of
thinking about service, just starting, even if you don't necessarily
have that motivation of of oh, I want to do
this for someone who is less, you know, who is
less advantage or I think just getting people to start
(31:16):
and then probably their motivations and the way they think
about it will change over time, and so I would
that's a fair potion to it, there was an I
had an evolution, even just in my time, and I
think just building a habit and a practice around getting involved.
And I think for me what happened was I I
(31:37):
joined something that ended up being sort of like the
most accessible thing to join at the time, and then
through that it was able to actually find something I
wanted to be involved with more.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
And I think just the barrier.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Of getting started can be so high that I don't
want to add another like and make sure your motivation
is also perfect to start.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Just get started, Just get started, and I.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Think they'll discover these things and.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
And but the point is why or if you do
or whatever you do feel more healthy, You do feel.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
More healthy, and you are helping somebody, even if you know,
even if your motivation isn't my motivation, our outcomes in
the world building is the same.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Do you do you view other people and organizations differently
now than you would have before you took down this path.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
It's a good question, you mean, once I'm any organization
or well, just.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
If your if your initial thoughts and your education had
you arrive at organizational change. I just wonder, and maybe
this is an unfair question but I can't help but
wonder if maybe you look down your nose at some
(32:59):
people previously that maybe now you have a little more
respect for And that may be an unfair personal question,
but maybe on a grander you understand what I Yeah, totally,
I'm wondering if it just changes perspective.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Yes, I mean my perspective was very changed. I definitely.
I think the biggest way that it was changed was just,
you know, I think that there was you know, even
if it was subconscious, I did, and I don't know
exactly know exactly when it's just sometime in the last
(33:39):
ten fifteen years, there was just I started to see
people's certain activities being done as like not wasteful, just yeah,
just sort of like you're doing like not effectual, just
spinning the wheels and not moving the needle. And I
just I feel I don't think that anymore now. I think,
(33:59):
how how great that those people were carving out time
to do all this important work that needs to be done,
and we need so many more people doing it.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
I kind of love that. I kind of love that
because that evolution and thought and that step will also
help people who think Folks who live in DC and
left or center are crazy and they're awful and they're
mean and they're terrible, and they're everything not. No, they're not.
(34:31):
They're not. My kids live there. I know they're not.
And just because you may look at something differently from
a political standpoint, or believe in a different deity or whatever,
does not necessarily mean you're evil or my enemy. And
(34:54):
when I hear that evolution and thought, I'm hopeful that
there can be evolution and thought from some other from
the other side, that you can get out of the
pendulum extremes and fun consensus in the middle. And I
think service and growing community can bring us to that point.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
I feel really good in this conversation, and I agree,
I think finding and given that there are fewer and
fewer institutions where people of different backgrounds come together to
get to interact with each other, it does feel like
service offers so offers a really good place where that
(35:41):
could be when everything else is sort of.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Fading.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
But I don't know sort of who or how exactly
that gets convened and maybe the answers we each need
to help convene it. But it did feel when I
was starting this, I was like, I just feel like
it's to be easier in the age of all this
technology that we have, all these cell phone apps and whatever,
and maybe AI will make it even easier.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
You know.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
AI wasn't really out when I started this, but I
just was like, sort of it felt like it should
have been easier than it was now.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Maybe you would say.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Actually working hard as part of the journey, and you
need to like struggle a little bit to find the stuff,
but I don't think people had to work as hard
a couple decades ago.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
To do it.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
So they were plugged into organizations that was part of
their DNA, and those organizations and people being plugged into
them are fewer and fewer. We got to find other avenues,
and we're trying to bring those avenues to light and
people like you going through this process and writing this
article and is just one in a million different ways
(36:50):
that hopefully we can bring people to this level of
service and change our community everybody. The article is why
I changed my mind about volunteering. My generation was taught
to change the system that lesson came at a cost.
Rachel Cohen is a focus of hope for me. I am.
(37:17):
I am just so encouraged by your story, the article
of the work that you did. Where you are now,
if people where do they go find this thing? Just
go to it on box.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Yeah, it's on box. You can just type in my
name and volunteering. It should come up in Google.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
What's next You're going to do any more follow up
on this kind of stuff? You should? You can be part.
You can be part of the solution with your pen.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
I definitely, uh, and so one thing that you might
find interesting. So I got content. One of the people
who reached out to me was this woman Marcie, who
works for a national organization called co Generate and they
focus on intergenerational connections. And I met with Marci. It
(38:14):
was really cool learning about all the different stuff that
her group does, and that actually led to an article
I published last month about intergenerational home sharing, which is, like,
we have this affordable housing crisis. There are fifty four
million spare bedrooms right now in homes of owner occupied homes.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Something like twenty million.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Empty nesters in the US live in homes with two
spare bedrooms because you know, their kids have gone. And
so there's sort of these organizations that are coming up
trying to get help, you know, students or younger people
rent these spare bedrooms in exchange for like helping the
older seniors with tours or things around their house, sort
(38:57):
of helping them bond.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
It was so interesting.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
The article is kind of about this movement to do
that and you know, challenges, but also some of the
really cool benefits. Anyway, that is sort of a windy
way to say that I love hearing from. So if
any of your listeners have really you know, things that
they think should be on my radar, feel free to
reach out. I know they also obviously probably pitch your show.
(39:22):
But I am definitely interested in continuing to cover this.
And I think the questions about social connection and you know,
how we depolarize and you know, stay like see each
other for the people that we are, even as people
(39:44):
are so on their screens and in their bubbles, is
something that I definitely want to keep writing about.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
So I love that. We'll be right back, Alex. Do
you have anything else? Do any you guys have anything else.
Speaker 6 (40:11):
One of the things that y'all talked about was generational differences,
and I think, unfortunately the generational reality for our generation
economically is quite different than the generations prior to us.
And I know in talking with my friends, a lot
of people are hustling so hard they don't they run
out of energy and time because they have like three
jobs and can't volunteer. And so how do you sit
(40:34):
with Rachel the systemic issues that like also prevent us
from doing this individual interpersonal work.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Yeah, it's such a good question, and this was something
I spoke with like scholars of them that we brought
this up too, Like there is when you are juggling
multiple jobs and you have fewer less discretionary time. There's
a reason that seniors in their retirement can do more volunteering.
I think one of the ways that I've been thinking
(41:02):
about it at Cabiseuls and that some of the people
I talked to help me think about, was we have
this kind of leave it to Beaver image of what
volunteering has to be has to be.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
That's a really good point we do. And actually we
have this vision of who volunteers as what leave it
to Beaver looks like, and that is so long, it's
so backwards, it's not true. If you've listened to the
guest on our show, you will find out very few
(41:36):
are leaver it to Beaver's but go ahead. I'm sorry,
but what you're saying is such a good point.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
I absolutely and I think so. I think if you
think of it, oh, how am I supposed to sign
up for, you know, a standing commitment every week at
seven pm or or three to Honestly, when I was
looking at volunteering opportunities in DC, it was striking to
me how many of them were like nine to twelve
(42:03):
in the weekdays. I was like, how could anyone do that?
And you know, how could I. I don't understand who
this is for exactly. It must be for people who
are retired or not working. But I think that recognizing
that there's so many ways to build volunteering into a
life that doesn't have to be so stressful and can
(42:23):
maybe maybe you start off being like, all right, in
my like, I have a month in the next month,
I can I can dedicate these hours on this day
and to something and then sort of go from there.
And I think this is getting back to the like,
just do it, just find something rather than I think
it can be really overwhelming to think of it as another.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Like standing commitment. And what will happen.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
Is, I think, is if you really like it, you'll
find ways to build it in it'll become easier because
but there's no question that. And there are a lot
of sort of like remote volunteering opportunities that have come
up through COVID, So they are my stuff you can do,
you know, that doesn't involve traveling to another place because
that can be difficult, especially where you live. But I think,
(43:08):
and then I guess the other thing is thinking about
the people in your direct community. So like maybe like
maybe you can watch your neighbors like kids while they're out,
or maybe you can like, you know, do do some
sort of service for your neighbor, like make them some
food and then that and like just realizing like, oh,
(43:28):
all of that counts, and all of these things about
service in your local vicinity that because it can feel
I'm curious if you have additional thoughts on this, but
just it can feel like we put it on this
pedestal that can feel really like you have to jump
pretty high to meat.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
And there's a man in our neighborhood whose name I
don't know, and when he walks his dog, he trikes
a trash can and he picks up every piece of
litter in the curb. On all three streets. He is
not part of anything, but he is serving his community.
I love that guy. That's something he can do while
(44:09):
he's doing something else. I just believe if you open
your eyes, you will find need everywhere. And you do
not need somebody to give you permission to go do it.
You just do it.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
You know, when I was like, yeah, if you look
up nonprofits, you'll a lot of like shelters have wishless
online from Amazon, so you could just kind of like
send them some things that they need. They're like little
things that I think people who even don't have much
discretionary time or money could do. You could carry stocks
or like all those all those things that I was like, oh,
(44:47):
is that important?
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Now I think, actually, yeah, it's really important.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Giving blood.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Giving blood.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
They take it on Saturdays, they take it on Sundays,
they take it a night. But it's such I do get.
I can my kids. I mean, they're you know, working,
paying rent. Everybody's working. They're you know, building their lives.
I understand, especially in the younger generations. You know how
(45:15):
when where But I think to your point, which is
a really really good one that I had not thought about,
you know anything, what you the words you just use.
Is it all counts, It all counts, just any little thing,
it all counts. And again to our whole rift. If
(45:37):
you have an army of normal folks all doing little
bitty things, it all counts, and all added up can
change society.
Speaker 4 (45:48):
Hello, I have a question for Rachel or have you
ever gotten any backlash or any negative encounters for where
the experience of trying to get people to get into
service or volunteering.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
I haven't, But I also don't feel like I've pressured
anyone too hard. Yeah maybe I should, Maybe I should
pressure people little harder.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
I don't know, but thus far, not yet.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
But you know what, you know what that pressure is?
People are watching, people are watching. Yeah, yeah, the pressure
comes from Wow, look what Rachel's doing. You don't have
to You don't have to overtly pressure people. Just your
(46:42):
action will pressure those in your sphere.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
You know, one thing I will say, and I.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Don't mean pressure in an unhealthy way.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
No, I think there's a positive level of pre pressure too.
I agree with you.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
I mean one thing I will say is I do
know someone. He's a friend, and he told me that
he had read my essay was inspired by it that
he wanted to share on his Instagram some some causes
he cared about that he supported, but he was like,
but I don't want to because I don't want people
to think I'm like trying to just get compliments or
(47:15):
that I'm fishing for people to think I'm a good
person and so, and I was like, but I think
I I and I know where that's coming from. But
I also think it is infectious, as you say, and
it does add a little level of people being like, hmm,
maybe I should do it, like if if if Josh
is doing it well, and so there is this strange level.
(47:38):
I was like, maybe I understand you feel that way,
but which do you think is more important? You know,
you worrying people might think you're being annoying, or you
getting more people to donate to this cause that you
care about.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
See, that's such a generational difference, and it's very generational.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
I feel like, you guys know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
You know, but they wouldn't, They really wouldn't. But I
think that's social media exposure and.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Everyone's really just hyper focused on how they're being perceived
for every single thing that they post. So people are
worried if they post, oh you should donate to this,
then people are like, wow, you're trying to look so but.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Almost almost like your point. Just get started.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
Yeah and maybe that maybe some people will, but maybe
some people will donate it as a result of your post.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
So which do you Which matter is more? You know?
Speaker 1 (48:23):
I think? I think just do, just do, just do
one last thing I'll share. Kim mins Wilson is a Memphian.
He's the founder of Holiday Inn Memphian. Yeah. So, uh,
born and raised here, started with nothing. He was a contractor.
(48:43):
He built small houses and ended up founding Holiday Inns
here built it and now every hotel you stay in
that's the chain. Think Hyatt, Marriotte, Hampton In. All of
them were born from Holiday Inn. Well, well think about it.
There was back back in the fifties there was either
you know, the risk, Well, there's either the not the Ritz.
(49:06):
There's either something like the Plaza.
Speaker 5 (49:08):
His story was the family was visiting d C. And yeah,
and it's like just take DC. You either stay at
the Willard or you stay at like a motel.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
They stay at the Bates Motel. Those were the two options,
a roadside motel or the Willard. That was it there
was no something well and he said back, well remember
the Ford, right for the average man a car. Well,
we need to have something for the average family to
stay at. And he started the holiday inn, which is
now what is the Marriotte and all of that stuff right.
(49:41):
I had dinner. I had lunch with him not long
before he passed, and I was at an FBO he owned,
and his leer jet was parked outside the windows and
he looked at me and he said, you know what
you need to be successful? And I said, no, sir,
I'd love to know. And he said, work half the day.
And I'm like, all right, being air with the lyric jet,
(50:02):
I'm sitting in his airport and he says, work out.
He said, yeah, Bill, it doesn't matter if you're work
the first twelve hours or the second twelve hours, just
work after day. That is an old school mentality, I realize.
But in terms of how you balance your work life
with your philanthropic endeavors and everything, work doesn't necessarily mean
(50:23):
where you make your paycheck. Work also means working with
your family, working in your community.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
It all counts.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
It all counts. Rachel Cohen, thanks for going to Memphis
and sharing this the whole background behind this one article.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
And thank you for bringing to Memphis. It's so cool
to be here.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
You're so welcome, Thanks for being Thanks everybody, thanks for coming,
and thank you for joining us this week. If Rachel
Cohen has inspired you in general, or better yet, to
take action, please let me know. I'd love to hear
(51:05):
about it. You can write me anytime at Bill at
normalfolks dot us, and I swear guys, I will respond.
If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends
and on social subscribe to the podcast, rate and review it.
Join the army at normalfolks dot us. Consider becoming a
premium member. There any and all of these things that
(51:28):
will help us grow an army of normal folks. The
more listeners, the more members, the more subscribers, the more
impact we can have. I'm Bill Courtney. Until next time,
do what you can
Everybody. It's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks.
And we continue now what part two of our conversation
with Rachel Cohen, right after these brief messages from our
general sponsors, undatabased thought coming from me to you, love
(00:34):
to hear what you think about it. I think that
pervasive generational construct regarding daily interaction of giving and philanthropy
verse grassroots, big motivation, policy seeking efforts that you describe
(00:59):
those are my works. But that's about right, right, that's
about what you're saying. There's those two verses, right. I
think that in and of itself has been part of
the breakdown in our communities of knowing your neighbor. I
(01:27):
also think that participation, membership and weekly engagement and houses
of worship in our country synagogues, churches, bosques, all of them,
it's all down, it's all down, has also had a
(01:47):
destructive effect on community and engagement. And you know, I
go to church with Democrats and Republicans. I go to
church with progressives and conservatives. I go to church with
people of different races I do today, and you know,
(02:11):
we see each other differently than those who do not
commune in any way shape or form, and then when
we separate ourselves into this large you know, this is
the only way we're going to affect change, and you're
not interacting on a daily basis with people who aren't
(02:32):
necessarily just like you, it breaks down community. And then
when break community breaks down, so does the desire for philanthropy.
That is, I have absolutely no basis in that. It's
that that's just my feel I would love to hear
your perspective on that, after doing the work that you did,
research and all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I mean, I totally agree. I think that's weird from
a person your age to agree to.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
People think a lot of people your age will, including
some one of my own children, think I'm outdated fuddy daddy.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Well I think. I mean, what I think is challenging is.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
I I was like, it would be easier if there
had been some sort of you know, alternative institution, community
institution that provided this thing that uh, you know, faith
based institutions did.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
But well, I'm not just saying faith based. Yes, I'm
saying the that's one of them. But I'm also saying
this idea that we got to convalesce around this one
movement and then use big organizations and government to go
change it all. Well, that breaks down community.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
That too, Oh, I see, I mean do you feel that?
But you're saying you you don't feel like that's happened
with the people at your church shortly?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I do you do.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
It's why there's not many people at church now as
there was twenty years ago, because they convalesce around these
big Yeah you see what I'm saying, they end up
worshiping something different.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I see, yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
I mean, I do feel like people are just siloing
and stereotyping each other and not interacting in ways that
would we were talking abo this earlier that would allow
you to realize, oh, we're not We're not different.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
That's what I'm saying. That's the community I think we're
missing in the.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Port and figuring out how to build institutions that might
I mean, so you know, I'm my fans and I
are talking about having kids and I We're like, okay,
we have kids, Well we'll join you know. I mean,
he's not Jewish, but we're going to join a synagogue.
And I'm part of what is What I'm excited about is, oh,
(05:01):
that will be a place that will make service things
much more easy for me, even though I've since found
other organizations, But I am suddenly excited about having a
place that just makes all of that organizing easier.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
But there's just a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Who But I also understand why people aren't joining things
like that, and we needed to.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, I don't want you to understand me. I'm not
saying we need to bring about churches and synagogues and
make every join to save the world. I'm not saying that.
I'm just saying I wondered if in the research you did,
you found that as we continue to polarize because we
don't have these things to convalesce around together, and as
(05:42):
we continue to lean on bigger and bigger organizations to
fix it, that one of the side, one of maybe
the unittended side consequences is community extone.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
I mean I think that community, I think that it
is bringing down I think the only thing that I
would say, I feel like people would push back on
is the at least as I sort of have observed it,
A lot of the people that are well, they're putting
faith in is not necessarily another organization. Most of them
(06:25):
have totally given up faith in the political parties. You
know and they but there's sort of like faith in
the possibility of a movement of people, like sort of
this idea of a grassroots movement that will ultimately, you know,
lead to the politics and endpoint. And I think that
that just doesn't actually exist in the way that they
(06:45):
wanted to, and so then they don't find it. But
I don't think it's that everyone has pinned their hopes on,
you know, the Sierra Club or something like that, per se.
I think it's more like hoping that if we galvanize
enough people to be upset enough with the status quo,
we'll be able to like ultimately push for the change
(07:08):
that we need that will make us feel better. But
I also don't think that even getting certain change that
they want is what's going to lead to like the
well being, because I think that's more it gives me hope.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
What did a thirty something year old kid woke up
and gave blood? All we needs millions of those we do?
That changes everything. There comes your community, because I don't
care if you're left of center and Jewish and I'm
right of center and Christian. I am so happy and
(07:41):
proud that you're giving blood. And if I'm laying dead
in a puddle one day and your blood saves my life.
I'm pretty good with you, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
But that's the power of an army and normal folks,
that's the power of service, that's the power of Philanthroy.
It breaks down all these to me. Yeah, And I
just want to know if that's what you found and
you feel And I mean.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
I definitely feel that. I don't know if I think that.
I think I have found that a lot of people
want our feeling for us, are feeling dissatisfied with their
wondering if they could be doing more, if they if
there's a better way to be making change. I think
a lot of people like I think that is really
(08:27):
a serious thing where a lot of people are like,
what is the best way that I can make change?
And that has led over time, I think, to a
decline in service. And I just think part of what
I am hoping, and I think your podcast has a
lot to do is helping people realize like, actually, you
can make so much change, even the big change that
you want to make, because I think a lot of
(08:47):
I think that, you know, people do people do want
to see structural change too. Maybe you call it top down.
I think I think for a lot of people, they
don't see this top down per se because they think
it's you know, coming from the bottom up ultimately. But
I do think that that it was a mistake to
conclude that this local service, you know, helping your neighbor
(09:11):
stuff is not deeply connected to all of that big
change that people say they want it least.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
And by the way, you asked, so I'll turn to
it now. So many in my generation decided that government
was discourage of the world. Well that's also not true.
We need a government, we need services, we need those things.
(09:39):
So I think the answer, as always is a combination
of the two extremes. Obviously, we need government to provide
services and defense and all kinds of stuff. But it's
like a pendulum, you know, this pendulum you're talking about,
swings to all this individu dual service is just a
(10:01):
bunch of junk, and then the other pendulum goes all
the way here, and we should dismantle the whole government.
Government's the problem with everything, And the truth is somewhere
in the middle is really the sweet spot. And we
can find that sweet spot together if we can simply
(10:21):
have a community where we can convel us around something
other than the extreme differences. And that's why your article
is so important to me, is because it's not somebody
on the right preaching. It's somebody there left sharing and
(10:45):
it's a much different perspective that I think is really
really important. We'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
I think there are a lot of I mean not everyone,
but I think there are a lot of people who
maybe are on this like pendulum over here, who had
dismissed it, who liked me, had just never really thought, oh,
why haven't I donated or like there, you know, they
haven't been reached by people who.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Or you know.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I think there's more all of us can do to
sort of say, hey, why don't you join me in
coming to like donating.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Here's a wish list the shelter needs. Why don't we
like split it?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
And I think there is I think a lot of people.
It would be great if everyone stepped up on their
own and I sort of went through I would say,
more unique journey in that way. But I feel like
there are a lot of there are millions of people
who want to get to that. I think exactly what
you're gonna sort of middle grounded, like, Okay, maybe maybe
(12:02):
there is a better path. And I think all those
people are would are very normal, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, so I am curious. I know, you had to
have gotten responses from people that are typically right of
center and left and center and everything else. I'm just
I'm really curious is what the response was and what
kind of feedback you got besides someone's just like, oh,
you're an idiot. I get those two I'm talking about
that actually, the ones that even made you think more
(12:34):
maybe totally.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I mean I have, I have really appreciated. I definitely.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
You know, heard from some more conservative readers too, who
were like, huh, I went and not expecting to like this,
but it actually was not too bad, you know, and
or like oh I hate your news organization, but this
was good, you know, stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
But doesn't that isn't that in and of itself? Yes,
it isn't that telling? Yes, that how quickly we can
come I die. Yeah, one article I expected to hate
what you had to say, and hey, I just wanted
to let you know, I really appreciate what you had
to say. One article that's walls crumbling.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Totally, you know, I got one reader emailed me to say,
you know, express her you know, connection to the article,
and she actually put an organization on my radar that
I hadn't heard about in DC, and now I've been
volunteering with them every month since August.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
It's they're called We Are Family.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
They delivered groceries to low income seniors in my neighborhood
that I didn't.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Even know existed.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
So that was really awesome and I'm such a fan
of that group now. And I think something that happened
a month after the essay came out, there.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Was a this report released.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
It was this three million dollar effort by a bunch
of kind of big wigs in philanthropy, had the Aspen Institute,
the Salvation Army, some of the big foundations and philanthropists
wanted to commission studies over the last couple of years
to get a clear state of what giving and volunteering
(14:20):
looks like in America. It was at I wrote about
this a month later. It wasn't an essay, just sort
of a write up. Here's what the Generosity Commission, that's
what it was called found. It was a little bit
of a frustrating document because they were like, more research
is needed, you know, we don't, we need to fund
more studies. But one of the things that they found,
which I found, you know, agitating, was and I realized,
(14:44):
this isn't directly respond to your question, so I'll get
back to that. But a lot of money in total
to nonprofits is actually going up.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
But by the number of donors is going down.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
So you have really rich people, know that, continuing to
give a lot of money, but by and so then
there was this question, Okay, so why does that matter?
You know, if these organizations are getting funding, is their
reason to be freaking out? And part of the answer is, well,
not every organization is getting funding the total nonprofit sector.
You might, but there's obviously especially smaller community based organizations
(15:21):
are not getting these million dollar grants that some of
the bigger groups are getting.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
And then but then.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Also this point that actually giving is carries benefits to
the giver that we are losing in the society if
people don't realize that. And one of the more interesting
parts of the Generosity Commission's work that I found was
they have been identifying these links that make sense but
(15:47):
have not really been spelled out before, about if you
donate to a charity, you're ten points more likely to
vote to then also get involved in an organization. Like
all of these different social activities are actually really interconnected.
And it's like donating blood. Well they didn't say that,
but you know, I think I think people who donate
(16:08):
blood are more likely to then probably donate money and
things like that.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
And community engagement is contagious, Yes, it absolutely is.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
And I think we just have to figure out how
to help grow in normal folks.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Grow an army of normal folks exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I'm serious. I know it sounds so promoting and maybe
even ghost to say it like that, but I'm telling
you to me, just what happens if there's three million
more of views that have an awakening this year and
three million more the next year.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
What that's a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
How hard is it to understand the person on the
sidewalk freezing, If you hand them a pair of socks,
you enrich their life that day.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
And I think, to your also to your point, like
it is really bad for our country, for our democracy.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
I increasingly feel this very strongly.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
If people don't have don't feel that they themselves can
be part of making the world better, like having that
sense of belief is so important to mental health, Like
we don't talk about that, and everyone's talking about the
mental health crisis, but I think making people feel a
sense of agencies so integral to that. And I grew
(17:28):
up like being told, you know, you can be whatever
you want. Obviously that's not totally true, but you know,
And I feel like today, I feel sad when I
hear some of the messages that you know, ninth graders
are hearing from politicians about everything being broken and how
sort of every single thing is falling up and there
(17:50):
are real challenges for sure, But I also worry about
people just losing sense of hope and agency and optimism
because I think I think they still have it, like
we should. We should help them see that they still
have it and be I think it's just makes people
feel terrible, and that is also not If everyone feels terrible,
(18:11):
that's going to have terrible effects too.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
With regard to our country, a very basic fundamental is
it's hard to love something you don't have a stake in. Therefore,
by encouraging people to have a stake in their community,
thus their city, thus their state, thus their country, they
(18:35):
will have more love for this republic of ours, and
the further you withdraw from it, the less you're going
to care for it. And if we take care of
our republic, it can take care of us. But if
we abuse it, where does that leave us? One day?
Speaker 3 (18:51):
How do you think, like, what do you think about
when in the question of how to make people feel
more of a sense of responsibility for were.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Things?
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Because I think right now a lot of people don't
feel that as much because they feel like what they
do doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, I'm supposed to be the one asking a question.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Do you think about this a lot? So I'm just curious.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I I think at the at the very basic root level,
this may sound goofy, but I think it needs to
be cool to give again. And I think people like
you are the answer that because you talked about you
(19:36):
weren't lonely and you had community, all right, Well, how
many of that community were.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Doing a thing like a very little now, how.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Many in that community see you or inspired by you?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I think I think some people were, so that was cool.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
It's contagious the general.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
I will add this the Generosity commissioned And I hadn't
really thought about this, but it does kind of make sense.
So part of what they did in this report they
came out was also recommendations for how to like They
definitely took a position that donating to nonprofits is a
good thing. Now in my essay, I did, you know,
(20:17):
talk with one scholar who was sort of saying, we
should stop prioritizing five oh one c three's as like
the utmost good, like caring for your family is just
as good.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
So there's a debate in.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
The world of philanthropy over like what what should count,
et cetera. But at least for this Generosity Commission, they
took the stance that, no, we should figure out a
way to make people feel like donating and volunteering with
nonprofits is something to do. They see it as you know,
integral to American identity and history, et cetera, and just
(20:50):
like our civil society is different from Europe or other places.
And so one of the recommendations they had was to
invest more in like spokespeople and marketing and telling the
story about why it matters and getting out some of
this information.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
And I think there have been.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Campaigns in the past around this stuff, but I don't
but they were sort of saying, like, you know, you
could imagine Hollywood, or or after football players or whatever.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
That's my problem with spokesperson and all that stuff. It's
just reads like another commercial. Yeah, and we're over commercialized.
I think I think storytelling and again I mean this though,
I think storytelling about it's about relatability, Okay. I mean,
(21:41):
whoever's listening to us right now, that's driving their car
down their road with their two point three kids on
the back of the expedition, going on their one vacation,
working hard to pay bills and keep their kids clothed,
and all of the things we have going on. Or
I think about one guy that's an over the road
truck driver that listens to us all the time, and
(22:03):
he's constantly emailing those ideas. In fact, we name something
after him. And I think about this cross section of people.
They're not going to relate to Tom Brady telling everybody
to get your dog spade neutered or whatever, okay, but
(22:27):
they will relate to another person just like them who
has a story about they had a passion for a
particular thing, they saw an opportunity in their community, and
they filled it and then they've had this amazing success
helping people in their community and telling that story about
(22:50):
a very normal, average, relatable person. I think you're right,
And hopefully the message behind that is if they can
do it, you can too. They're just average people. They're
not part of that big, huge, grassroots, massive effort trying
to make They're just making small change in their community.
But if one can affect five that means three million
(23:14):
can affect fifteen man. That means fifteen min can affect
eighty five million. And that to me is what grassroots,
bottom up service and philanthropy looks like. And if you'll
think about the community that could grow from that, and
to you, to your world, the social change that could
(23:36):
come from that, you ask how, I think that's how?
I genuinely think that's how.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, I think you're right because I think I agree
if I saw, like, I don't know, Taylor Swift talk
about this like it wouldn't do anything. But I think
what people well, I think people in my you know,
stage of life, et cetera. I want to see as
(24:04):
someone who is juggling all the same things that they're juggling,
who are weighing all the same questions about well, is
this worth it? Is it effect, like are they gonna
waste my money?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Is it actually useful? And then just like showing like
yes you can, here's how, of course you can. This
is how These are the ways you can do it,
and this is the benefit. This is the positive impacts
you'll have.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
And I think you're right that.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I mean, maybe maybe those big foundations will fund storytelling
from average people.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I mean that.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
We'll be right back. How do you feel? How do
(25:03):
you feel? What's it make you feel like? I don't
think people understand enough that when it's a very human
part of our DNA, that when we actually do something
for another person and we see the results of our
work in their happiness or maybe they're just having a
(25:24):
better day today or maybe them being able to do
something a little better for their kids, that that creates
a sense of euphoria in us that nothing else does.
And you talk about the blood given, I get it.
But what's it feel like when you drop off a
(25:44):
box of groceries to underserve seniors?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
It feels good.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
It feels like I am living my life according to
the values that I want.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
To be living.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
And when you're not living that, like even if it
you realize that I think just like taking steps and
realizing that, oh, I can prioritize this, and I can,
I can help make the world better and I can.
I mean, it sounds corny, but it is really true
that you just it feels good to feel like you're
(26:22):
spending this short time on earth not wasting scrolling in
your phone, but doing something for other people. And I
think one of the awakening insights that I had from
the whole article process was, you know, so many of
the ideas of self care that we have in our
(26:43):
society are around like buying stuff or getting a beauty treatment,
or or going to a fitness class or.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
You know, a nicer car.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
And it was just it was it was pretty agitating
to realize, oh, self care at least as you know
my you know, we talked about it. What you hear
on TikTok, what you see online is not is so
rarely phrases serving other people because it's all focused on
doing things for yourself. And it just was sort of, oh, well, a,
(27:14):
you actually are doing something for yourself when you serve
other people, and you actually probably feel better if you
get out of your own head and go do something
for someone else and just kind of for me, being
in motion is helpful.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
And not that. I mean, there's lots of service that's
not emotion, but yeah, I was.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
It was It was not what I it's not why
I started all this stuff, but it was something I
was very.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Pleased to discover.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
And once I sort of figured that out, and then
I thought, why are people? You know, I feel like
people aren't talking about this that much? Is it because
it feels like something we should not, you know, you
should only focus on the selfless parts of service, and
that it could mess up the.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
You know, altruism.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
But obviously the person who's getting your health doesn't care
if you feel like. They don't want you to feel bad.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
They don't want to it really is it? Really?
Speaker 3 (28:11):
It just is good to remember. I would say, I
feel good doing it. I feel good prioritizing it. I
feel good trying to build a life that aligns with
the values that I say I have.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
You know, I think there's a distinction. If your life
is enriched and you feel mentally and emotionally and spiritually
more healthy as a result of engaging in your community,
there's nothing wrong with that as long as that's not
the motive. As long as the motive is serving someone
(28:48):
that is not as blessed as you. If the byproduct
of the right motivation, the right work is you also
become enriched in your own life. Why is a shared
communal experience not a beautiful thing?
Speaker 5 (29:03):
Here's a really interesting insight in the article, Rachel, where
you say billionaires can talk about their gifts and like
what it does for them, but we're not allowed to
talk about what it does for us.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
I read this book and it was the author had
interviewed a lot of rich billionaires about why they give,
and they all were like, oh, I just you know.
They were all so open, like, oh, I just you know,
I love the way it makes me feel. I love
helping people. It just makes you feel great. And I
was like, huh, Like they're not hiding that aspect of it.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Something wrong? Why do we Yeah, if you're motivated because
it checks a box at work on your philanthropic giving,
or you appreciate the backslaps, or it makes you feel
good because their bie thinks you're the nice guy in town, fine,
that's that's not it. But if you're motivated by the
simple edification of someone who's not as blessed as you
(29:57):
and oh, by the way, you get to feel good.
That's a beautiful thing totally. And a billionaire giving away
a whole bunch of money because they actually are invested
in or care about an organization and want to see
people thrive from their riches and they happen to feel
good about it. I've got no problem with that, as
(30:18):
long as they're not out there tweeting on Facebook or Twitter,
whatever that stuff is x X tiktoking or whatever look
at me, you know, if it's not about look at me,
then But one.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Thing I guess I would maybe push back just a
tiny bit on is I think for a lot of people,
like voting, like donating blood. And this was actually I
talk about this in the essay, this concept from the
Torrea called vanes, which is kind of like do and
(30:55):
then you'll understand. I think if you are sort of
thinking about service, just starting, even if you don't necessarily
have that motivation of of oh, I want to do
this for someone who is less, you know, who is
less advantage or I think just getting people to start
(31:16):
and then probably their motivations and the way they think
about it will change over time, and so I would
that's a fair potion to it, there was an I
had an evolution, even just in my time, and I
think just building a habit and a practice around getting involved.
And I think for me what happened was I I
(31:37):
joined something that ended up being sort of like the
most accessible thing to join at the time, and then
through that it was able to actually find something I
wanted to be involved with more.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
And I think just the barrier.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Of getting started can be so high that I don't
want to add another like and make sure your motivation
is also perfect to start.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Just get started, Just get started, and I.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Think they'll discover these things and.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
And but the point is why or if you do
or whatever you do feel more healthy, You do feel.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
More healthy, and you are helping somebody, even if you know,
even if your motivation isn't my motivation, our outcomes in
the world building is the same.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Do you do you view other people and organizations differently
now than you would have before you took down this path.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
It's a good question, you mean, once I'm any organization
or well, just.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
If your if your initial thoughts and your education had
you arrive at organizational change. I just wonder, and maybe
this is an unfair question but I can't help but
wonder if maybe you look down your nose at some
(32:59):
people previously that maybe now you have a little more
respect for And that may be an unfair personal question,
but maybe on a grander you understand what I Yeah, totally,
I'm wondering if it just changes perspective.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Yes, I mean my perspective was very changed. I definitely.
I think the biggest way that it was changed was just,
you know, I think that there was you know, even
if it was subconscious, I did, and I don't know
exactly know exactly when it's just sometime in the last
(33:39):
ten fifteen years, there was just I started to see
people's certain activities being done as like not wasteful, just yeah,
just sort of like you're doing like not effectual, just
spinning the wheels and not moving the needle. And I
just I feel I don't think that anymore now. I think,
(33:59):
how how great that those people were carving out time
to do all this important work that needs to be done,
and we need so many more people doing it.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
I kind of love that. I kind of love that
because that evolution and thought and that step will also
help people who think Folks who live in DC and
left or center are crazy and they're awful and they're
mean and they're terrible, and they're everything not. No, they're not.
(34:31):
They're not. My kids live there. I know they're not.
And just because you may look at something differently from
a political standpoint, or believe in a different deity or whatever,
does not necessarily mean you're evil or my enemy. And
(34:54):
when I hear that evolution and thought, I'm hopeful that
there can be evolution and thought from some other from
the other side, that you can get out of the
pendulum extremes and fun consensus in the middle. And I
think service and growing community can bring us to that point.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
I feel really good in this conversation, and I agree,
I think finding and given that there are fewer and
fewer institutions where people of different backgrounds come together to
get to interact with each other, it does feel like
service offers so offers a really good place where that
(35:41):
could be when everything else is sort of.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Fading.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
But I don't know sort of who or how exactly
that gets convened and maybe the answers we each need
to help convene it. But it did feel when I
was starting this, I was like, I just feel like
it's to be easier in the age of all this
technology that we have, all these cell phone apps and whatever,
and maybe AI will make it even easier.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
You know.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
AI wasn't really out when I started this, but I
just was like, sort of it felt like it should
have been easier than it was now.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Maybe you would say.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Actually working hard as part of the journey, and you
need to like struggle a little bit to find the stuff,
but I don't think people had to work as hard
a couple decades ago.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
To do it.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
So they were plugged into organizations that was part of
their DNA, and those organizations and people being plugged into
them are fewer and fewer. We got to find other avenues,
and we're trying to bring those avenues to light and
people like you going through this process and writing this
article and is just one in a million different ways
(36:50):
that hopefully we can bring people to this level of
service and change our community everybody. The article is why
I changed my mind about volunteering. My generation was taught
to change the system that lesson came at a cost.
Rachel Cohen is a focus of hope for me. I am.
(37:17):
I am just so encouraged by your story, the article
of the work that you did. Where you are now,
if people where do they go find this thing? Just
go to it on box.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Yeah, it's on box. You can just type in my
name and volunteering. It should come up in Google.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
What's next You're going to do any more follow up
on this kind of stuff? You should? You can be part.
You can be part of the solution with your pen.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
I definitely, uh, and so one thing that you might
find interesting. So I got content. One of the people
who reached out to me was this woman Marcie, who
works for a national organization called co Generate and they
focus on intergenerational connections. And I met with Marci. It
(38:14):
was really cool learning about all the different stuff that
her group does, and that actually led to an article
I published last month about intergenerational home sharing, which is, like,
we have this affordable housing crisis. There are fifty four
million spare bedrooms right now in homes of owner occupied homes.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Something like twenty million.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Empty nesters in the US live in homes with two
spare bedrooms because you know, their kids have gone. And
so there's sort of these organizations that are coming up
trying to get help, you know, students or younger people
rent these spare bedrooms in exchange for like helping the
older seniors with tours or things around their house, sort
(38:57):
of helping them bond.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
It was so interesting.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
The article is kind of about this movement to do
that and you know, challenges, but also some of the
really cool benefits. Anyway, that is sort of a windy
way to say that I love hearing from. So if
any of your listeners have really you know, things that
they think should be on my radar, feel free to
reach out. I know they also obviously probably pitch your show.
(39:22):
But I am definitely interested in continuing to cover this.
And I think the questions about social connection and you know,
how we depolarize and you know, stay like see each
other for the people that we are, even as people
(39:44):
are so on their screens and in their bubbles, is
something that I definitely want to keep writing about.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
So I love that. We'll be right back, Alex. Do
you have anything else? Do any you guys have anything else.
Speaker 6 (40:11):
One of the things that y'all talked about was generational differences,
and I think, unfortunately the generational reality for our generation
economically is quite different than the generations prior to us.
And I know in talking with my friends, a lot
of people are hustling so hard they don't they run
out of energy and time because they have like three
jobs and can't volunteer. And so how do you sit
(40:34):
with Rachel the systemic issues that like also prevent us
from doing this individual interpersonal work.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Yeah, it's such a good question, and this was something
I spoke with like scholars of them that we brought
this up too, Like there is when you are juggling
multiple jobs and you have fewer less discretionary time. There's
a reason that seniors in their retirement can do more volunteering.
I think one of the ways that I've been thinking
(41:02):
about it at Cabiseuls and that some of the people
I talked to help me think about, was we have
this kind of leave it to Beaver image of what
volunteering has to be has to be.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
That's a really good point we do. And actually we
have this vision of who volunteers as what leave it
to Beaver looks like, and that is so long, it's
so backwards, it's not true. If you've listened to the
guest on our show, you will find out very few
(41:36):
are leaver it to Beaver's but go ahead. I'm sorry,
but what you're saying is such a good point.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
I absolutely and I think so. I think if you
think of it, oh, how am I supposed to sign
up for, you know, a standing commitment every week at
seven pm or or three to Honestly, when I was
looking at volunteering opportunities in DC, it was striking to
me how many of them were like nine to twelve
(42:03):
in the weekdays. I was like, how could anyone do that?
And you know, how could I. I don't understand who
this is for exactly. It must be for people who
are retired or not working. But I think that recognizing
that there's so many ways to build volunteering into a
life that doesn't have to be so stressful and can
(42:23):
maybe maybe you start off being like, all right, in
my like, I have a month in the next month,
I can I can dedicate these hours on this day
and to something and then sort of go from there.
And I think this is getting back to the like,
just do it, just find something rather than I think
it can be really overwhelming to think of it as another.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Like standing commitment. And what will happen.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
Is, I think, is if you really like it, you'll
find ways to build it in it'll become easier because
but there's no question that. And there are a lot
of sort of like remote volunteering opportunities that have come
up through COVID, So they are my stuff you can do,
you know, that doesn't involve traveling to another place because
that can be difficult, especially where you live. But I think,
(43:08):
and then I guess the other thing is thinking about
the people in your direct community. So like maybe like
maybe you can watch your neighbors like kids while they're out,
or maybe you can like, you know, do do some
sort of service for your neighbor, like make them some
food and then that and like just realizing like, oh,
(43:28):
all of that counts, and all of these things about
service in your local vicinity that because it can feel
I'm curious if you have additional thoughts on this, but
just it can feel like we put it on this
pedestal that can feel really like you have to jump
pretty high to meat.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
And there's a man in our neighborhood whose name I
don't know, and when he walks his dog, he trikes
a trash can and he picks up every piece of
litter in the curb. On all three streets. He is
not part of anything, but he is serving his community.
I love that guy. That's something he can do while
(44:09):
he's doing something else. I just believe if you open
your eyes, you will find need everywhere. And you do
not need somebody to give you permission to go do it.
You just do it.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
You know, when I was like, yeah, if you look
up nonprofits, you'll a lot of like shelters have wishless
online from Amazon, so you could just kind of like
send them some things that they need. They're like little
things that I think people who even don't have much
discretionary time or money could do. You could carry stocks
or like all those all those things that I was like, oh,
(44:47):
is that important?
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Now I think, actually, yeah, it's really important.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Giving blood.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Giving blood.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
They take it on Saturdays, they take it on Sundays,
they take it a night. But it's such I do get.
I can my kids. I mean, they're you know, working,
paying rent. Everybody's working. They're you know, building their lives.
I understand, especially in the younger generations. You know how
(45:15):
when where But I think to your point, which is
a really really good one that I had not thought about,
you know anything, what you the words you just use.
Is it all counts, It all counts, just any little thing,
it all counts. And again to our whole rift. If
(45:37):
you have an army of normal folks all doing little
bitty things, it all counts, and all added up can
change society.
Speaker 4 (45:48):
Hello, I have a question for Rachel or have you
ever gotten any backlash or any negative encounters for where
the experience of trying to get people to get into
service or volunteering.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
I haven't, But I also don't feel like I've pressured
anyone too hard. Yeah maybe I should, Maybe I should
pressure people little harder.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
I don't know, but thus far, not yet.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
But you know what, you know what that pressure is?
People are watching, people are watching. Yeah, yeah, the pressure
comes from Wow, look what Rachel's doing. You don't have
to You don't have to overtly pressure people. Just your
(46:42):
action will pressure those in your sphere.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
You know, one thing I will say, and I.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Don't mean pressure in an unhealthy way.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
No, I think there's a positive level of pre pressure too.
I agree with you.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
I mean one thing I will say is I do
know someone. He's a friend, and he told me that
he had read my essay was inspired by it that
he wanted to share on his Instagram some some causes
he cared about that he supported, but he was like,
but I don't want to because I don't want people
to think I'm like trying to just get compliments or
(47:15):
that I'm fishing for people to think I'm a good
person and so, and I was like, but I think
I I and I know where that's coming from. But
I also think it is infectious, as you say, and
it does add a little level of people being like, hmm,
maybe I should do it, like if if if Josh
is doing it well, and so there is this strange level.
(47:38):
I was like, maybe I understand you feel that way,
but which do you think is more important? You know,
you worrying people might think you're being annoying, or you
getting more people to donate to this cause that you
care about.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
See, that's such a generational difference, and it's very generational.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
I feel like, you guys know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
You know, but they wouldn't, They really wouldn't. But I
think that's social media exposure and.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Everyone's really just hyper focused on how they're being perceived
for every single thing that they post. So people are
worried if they post, oh you should donate to this,
then people are like, wow, you're trying to look so but.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Almost almost like your point. Just get started.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
Yeah and maybe that maybe some people will, but maybe
some people will donate it as a result of your post.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
So which do you Which matter is more? You know?
Speaker 1 (48:23):
I think? I think just do, just do, just do
one last thing I'll share. Kim mins Wilson is a Memphian.
He's the founder of Holiday Inn Memphian. Yeah. So, uh,
born and raised here, started with nothing. He was a contractor.
(48:43):
He built small houses and ended up founding Holiday Inns
here built it and now every hotel you stay in
that's the chain. Think Hyatt, Marriotte, Hampton In. All of
them were born from Holiday Inn. Well, well think about it.
There was back back in the fifties there was either
you know, the risk, Well, there's either the not the Ritz.
(49:06):
There's either something like the Plaza.
Speaker 5 (49:08):
His story was the family was visiting d C. And yeah,
and it's like just take DC. You either stay at
the Willard or you stay at like a motel.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
They stay at the Bates Motel. Those were the two options,
a roadside motel or the Willard. That was it there
was no something well and he said back, well remember
the Ford, right for the average man a car. Well,
we need to have something for the average family to
stay at. And he started the holiday inn, which is
now what is the Marriotte and all of that stuff right.
(49:41):
I had dinner. I had lunch with him not long
before he passed, and I was at an FBO he owned,
and his leer jet was parked outside the windows and
he looked at me and he said, you know what
you need to be successful? And I said, no, sir,
I'd love to know. And he said, work half the day.
And I'm like, all right, being air with the lyric jet,
(50:02):
I'm sitting in his airport and he says, work out.
He said, yeah, Bill, it doesn't matter if you're work
the first twelve hours or the second twelve hours, just
work after day. That is an old school mentality, I realize.
But in terms of how you balance your work life
with your philanthropic endeavors and everything, work doesn't necessarily mean
(50:23):
where you make your paycheck. Work also means working with
your family, working in your community.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
It all counts.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
It all counts. Rachel Cohen, thanks for going to Memphis
and sharing this the whole background behind this one article.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
And thank you for bringing to Memphis. It's so cool
to be here.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
You're so welcome, Thanks for being Thanks everybody, thanks for coming,
and thank you for joining us this week. If Rachel
Cohen has inspired you in general, or better yet, to
take action, please let me know. I'd love to hear
(51:05):
about it. You can write me anytime at Bill at
normalfolks dot us, and I swear guys, I will respond.
If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends
and on social subscribe to the podcast, rate and review it.
Join the army at normalfolks dot us. Consider becoming a
premium member. There any and all of these things that
(51:28):
will help us grow an army of normal folks. The
more listeners, the more members, the more subscribers, the more
impact we can have. I'm Bill Courtney. Until next time,
do what you can
Host
Bill Courtney
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