September 5, 2023 • 44 mins
When the World Trade Center was struck on 9/11, Sonia promised her husband, an NYPD officer who responded to the attack, that she wouldn’t go to the site to help. But she couldn’t keep that promise and volunteered as a recovery worker at Ground Zero on overnight shifts. In addition to grieving their losses, the Agrons soon began to deal with various illnesses brought on by exposure to Ground Zero’s toxic environment. In spite of this, Sonia has continued volunteering by leading tours at the 9/11 Tribute Museum and 9/11 Memorial.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney again with an army of
normal folks. Let's continue with part two of our conversation
with Sonya Agron. Right after these brief messages from our
generous sponsors, you decide you've got to do something. And
(00:31):
this is where I find you amazing. Is I don't
explain it to us, But so I understand now. I
didn't that the Red Cross had centers for the first responders,
and some of these guys would work all day and
(00:52):
wouldn't even go home. And they would go and sleep
in a center near ground zero and get a little
rest and rust up and then go back. And they
would never go home. So they actually worked and slept there.
And these sinners need to be need to be run,
and you volunteered there. Yeah, and so tell me what
(01:15):
go into what I just said, Explain that how it worked.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
How it worked was my first responsibility was just to
help them get food. So many amazing people donated so
much food I couldn't eat. I felt I was taking
something away from someone else. And about two days later,
and I wouldn't talk to anybody. For the first time
in my life, I wasn't this bubbly person I didn't
(01:40):
know how to be, and I I started doing these
hero sticks, making little flags saying they were hero sticks
you did to fight.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Crime andold you making them out of they.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Were chapsticks, and I just put little rabels on them,
hear your hero And then I would buy a bunch
of life savers, put them in a bag and just
say because you are a lifesaver. Because many of them
weren't feeling that. But it was the only way I
could speak. I could not speak. And about two days
(02:12):
after my midnight shift, my leader with a bunch of
others say we're going to ground zero and I asked,
are we aloud? And she goes, have you ever looked
at your ID? It's the first time I did, and
it said access everywhere, and I thought, oh, well, this
is not going to please my husband.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
You had more access than me.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
But we went down to pray. I know now where
I was, because as you both know, I have no
sense of direction.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Well, but the bottom line is also there's really no
clues anymore because it's just rubble.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
But I know now that I was near the North
Tower and the North Tower Bridge, and the way it
looked it was like I'm standing up here, and all
of a sudden, I can see this big hole and
it wasn't even as big as it turned out to
be at the end when they had cleaned it.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
All up, and that was because it was filled with
the building.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yes, And I just said, naively, where is everything? And
one of them grabbed me and hugged me, says, so
you're the New Yorker, And I said, but where is everything?
I knew it was gone. I've seen the pictures, but
when you see it up close, it is totally different.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Okay, So paint that picture for me all my senses.
What did it sound like? What did it smell like?
Could you taste it?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I could taste it like rotten peaches, rotten peaches. I
only eat nectarines now I can't deal with peaches really rotten,
just rotten, and it.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Could so you could still taste it. What did it
smell like?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Oh, well, Nia mesked me know what death smells like.
They give us these little bats, So like, oh it
was death, it was it was flesh.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
You could smell that. Still.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I go into the historical exhibit and I know there
are no smells there, There's nothing there. But as soon
as I walk into a certain area and I have
to walk back up because I'm right there. Again, my
husband's only done it once and that was when they
gave us an exhibit and he went in. I said,
you have to you know, you were part of this.
We're trying to tell a story that people don't understand.
(04:25):
And he said, just get me to the site and
let's get out.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
What did it feel like?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Scary? Scary to a point? After that visit with my
team leader, I went back and everything looked different for me.
I understood why people were hugging. I understood the reason
why people were just holding hands. I didn't want to
do any of that.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Strangers really yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
You know, like, how are you doing this? You don't
really know each other. But I understood as soon as
I came back from the site and I looked in,
I said, they're comforting each other. And at that moment,
they told me your assignment has been changed, and I said,
where am I going? You're going up stairs take care
first responders. And I thought that was a blessing because
(05:13):
I couldn't help my husband.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
So you're standing there and it smells like rotten peaches. No,
it tastes like speeches like it smells like burning, and
there were.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Other smells and I knew there were fires from the
building smoke still, yeah, oh there was definitely it smelled.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Liked Sophiel at all.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
You know, I don't recollect that.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I just I've always wondered from the planes, because that's
what started the fire. If you could still smell that.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
It might happen the first week or two, but I
didn't smell it when I came in on.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Okay, So it tastes the smell? Did it feel gritty?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Every gritty gritty? Everything was gritty from my shoes. When
we got outside. We had to get another vest on.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Okay. And you see a hole that's basically a building filled?
Could you? And I guess you see people working on
top of the rubble and what did you hear? Wow?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
You hear a lot of trucks. You hear the sounds.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Of those big excavators, machinery.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
The machinery, but the wind, the lights, a.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Big light, oh, the generators.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Okay, they were going on. And it didn't look like nighttime.
It looked like you were in Vegas when it's nine
and all that you see as left.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Okay, Well that's Another thing to see is so middle
of the night, but it's bright everywhere because it's twenty
four hours.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
You see fires. And I remember when I got out
the first time, how did my shoes get so muddy?
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Really?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah? And I was standing No, it was mudpiles because
they had been spraying the whole entire area to you know,
break down any flax and this was the residue. And
you know, I wondered, where are my shoes us I'm
standing right here, and somebody said, just put them out,
we'll get them cleaned for you. And okay, And I was.
I was so robotic at that moment, but something changed
(07:11):
when they put me into work as first responders.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, and so from there, you that's the thing you get.
What you're volunteering to do is actually tend to the
first responders that are coming to these what.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Are they called respit censors. They're each.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
So they set up restpit centers so that a fireman
or any first responder or police officer whatever, they work
until they're about to drop, they're covered. The reason I
wanted these senses. They're covered in the soot and this
mud and this filth, and they must stink like death.
And rotten peaches. They have to have it all over them.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
What I remember is how dirty they looked. I would
give them enough close to shower just to change it
under garments, And what didn't go away was the smell
of smoke. Even though they had clean undergarments, they still
(08:12):
had to wear their uniforms.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Oh, so that stench.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Now, that does not And we did everything. We banged
it whatever I could. It didn't matter.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
So you're you're in these respite centers taking care of
the first responders. They're in this mess, breathing this crap
andhaling it, trying to clean and find, frankly body parts
so that some family can have just a piece of
(08:43):
their loved one. I can't even believe I'm saying this,
but this is what. This is reality, And they're coming
to a respite center that you're now at to with
other volunteers to help these folks get a little rest,
and they don't even go home. And then they get
and they go right back to it. And this went
on for months.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yeah, this went on for months. One of the issues
we had on our team was firefighters could take off
their garments and put it on the edge of the floor,
and we also had engineers and all that, but when
it came to police officers, they couldn't take their guns off.
And so a lot of the people that I was
(09:23):
working would say, we don't know how to wake them
up because they jump, And I go, I know how
they jump and gun? Yeah, And so I said, here,
follow me, this is what you do. What's their first name?
So I just go up to the head, rub their faces,
whisper in their ears their name, and they're going to
think their home. And that's exactly what happened. These guys
(09:44):
bleach strangers didn't matter. They weren't strangers. They were family.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Because you're literally rubbing these guys.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Rubbing some other's women's husband's face. But it didn't matter.
They didn't wake up in shock. They didn't wake up
thinking something else is happening. And for those who are
working with me, they say thank you because we would
just shine flashlights in their face hoping they would wake up,
and they would still jump up.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
One of the things I've read about shock, and one
of the things I've read about people that come home
from war is one of the hardest things they have
to do is actually sleep. That in closing their eyes,
their mind immediately goes to the horror that they've experienced,
and by not sleeping and keeping your eyes open, your
(10:33):
mind doesn't trick you into having to relive that horror.
And what that leads to, though, is people who are
already in a stressful situation, they don't get enough sleep,
and then it exacerbates the problem. So it's like, damned
if you're damned if you don't. Were any of the guys,
(10:54):
I mean, we're talking about firefighters and policemen. We're talking about,
you know, goud guys rolling in these splices, and so
I got to believe they're walking in with this facade
of I'm tough as hell. But then they shower and
they try to get cleaned up, and now they're supposed
to get rested. Did any of them struggle? Was just sleep?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
The few that I had when I would get them
to their assigned cots, would grab my hand to wrist
and tell me, can you just sit with me for
a minute. And it was at that moment that I
understood why my husband couldn't sleep. And they, some of them,
said I can't. I don't want to see what I
just saw, and whatever they wanted me to do, I
(11:38):
would do so. If it was a dumb joke, I
would say and I'd invent one. Some of them wanted
to pray, some of them just wanted to put their
heads on my shoulder. And I did it because I
felt I couldn't do it for my husband. Maybe somebody
in the day too, it would do it for him.
Just payd forward.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
And did you let these guys know that you were married.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
To a Absolutely I had money.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
So they knew that you knew what the job was.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, and I show them, I says, listen, you know
I'm not on the job, but I am on the job.
And they would smile, they would talk to me, and
that would mean their whole entire forty minute rest.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Forty minutes.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, some of them got an out because some of
them were still on duty. They were given an hour break,
and they decided, oh, that's where I'm going to go.
And then they realized that's where we can't go because
we can't we were not resting. And imagine you and
police officer with all this equipment on, couldn't take any
part of your uniform on because if they called you,
you had to be ready to respond. And so for me.
(12:38):
The best part and the worst part of my job
was bringing comfort anybody who wanted. It didn't matter to
me who you were, what you were crying about, whatever
you wanted to tell me. Stayed with me. And as
the days went on, I understood why my husband wouldn't talk.
I understood a lot about him.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Well, you didn't have to do this. You were voluntar.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I volunteered because it's your responsibility. Whether you're emt or not,
this is your community. You have to get involved with
your community. If you're not, then what's the point. It
takes a village. And I was part of that village.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
So that's the point is you know, you're sure, you're
an empty sure your husband's on the job, but you know,
you just you're Sonia from the Brons and and the
worst thing that's happened in our country since Pearl Harbor,
(13:36):
and in the midst of what we've described of true
human horror. You go down there every day simply to
try to console and take care of the people that
are trying to take care of this mess.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I think everyone should have.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
And how long did you do that?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
I was there until the mid December when my husband
asked me to please not go anymore. So four months, Yeah,
he didn't want me to go back anymore. And my
daughter was also. It was his mom, I can't sleep,
I can't go to school. And I said, okay, I
(14:14):
have to be a wife and I have to be
a mom. But I felt I did something and I continue.
I started from there doing other things just for people
who weren't there here.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
How close are these rest but centers if you're only
getting a forty five minute break, they must be right
on top of it.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Saint John's was I think three blocks away Stuyvesant.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
So three blocks, two or three blocks?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, and then they had tents.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Okay, Well, even when you're not on ground zero, even
working at these places, you're in the midst of it all.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
We sort of smoke and fire for months.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
So how many volunteers were there like you?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Oh wow? For the Red Cross? All I can tell
you is my midnight team had about twenty, with myself included.
You couldn't leave unless somebody came to replace us. But
it was round the clock, and some of them that
I spoke to weren't.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Even And there were many respite centers.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yes, you had the Married Hotel, that had respite centers whatever. Well,
I can't say Burger King because that was a center
for the police department. But wherever there was a hotel
or something big enough to house people, that was what
was done for thousands, I would say, yeah, and a
(15:28):
lot of those stories don't even exist anymore, all.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Of whom breathed in this toxic crowd YEP, we'll be
right back. So we're twenty years later and you're still volunteering.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I never left. I mean, except for the seven years
that we couldn't talk about nine to eleven, I never left.
My heart was always there. And when the opportunity came
up after my mom passed. Before she passed, she reminded
me that I said I was still going to do
something for the community, and she goes, you've been taking
care of me too long. And the day after we
(16:20):
buried her, I got the email from Tribute. Are you
still interested?
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Tell me to explain to our listeners attributed The.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Nine to eleven Tribu Museum was the first museum on
ground zero and it was started by the September eleventh
Families Association, and we actually started on the streets. We
didn't have offices or anything. We would just pull people
the next would you like to go? And we can
tell you. And the criteria of the nine to eleven
Tribune Museum was that the only people who could do
(16:48):
this were people who had a personal connection.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
So the only people who could do tours or talks.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
We've gone to school, I've gone to Japan, and so
it's either first responder recovery work, or a survivor, a
family member or a resident. Because we were directly affected,
and that became the difference between what we do and
what the National Museum does. And it was not only
to tell the stories. That's what we thought we were doing.
(17:16):
What we realized very soon was that we were healing
because you're talking to strangers who aren't going to tell
you move on and get over it. And at the end,
those strangers became our friends. They hugged us. Some of
them have kept in touch with us. They've come back three,
four or five times and they will say, oh, we
want to tour with Sonya and I go. There are
(17:38):
so many other people. Yeh know, we want to hear
it from you, and we put a face on nine
to eleven. But people forget about the flight ninety three
where there were forty people, which used to be always
two hundred. That flight took off late, and these forty
people knew they were being hijacked, they knew where they
were going, and they made the democratic decision when that
(17:59):
plane was over land or water, that they would take
over that cockpit, even though they knew they would die.
And I always say not to take away from any
of our first responders, but those were our first heroes.
They knew what was going to.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Happen, because whatever that plane was going to hit, they
saved and whatever. Some think it was the Capital, some
think it was the.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
White It was it was the Capital because Congress was
in session.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
That was the first day I had to have been.
I think it was New.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
York's the world's economy, world's military, which was the Pentagon
and the Capitol, and they got two out of three.
But we owe these forty people are dead, a gratitude
that they knew. They didn't know why, but they knew.
They were getting calls information, and they said, we're not
letting this happen. By that time, I believe both captains
were murdered, and there is a black box that was taken.
(18:54):
We've gone to Shanksville, and there is a display of
how the plane was. People were fighting and you can
see the plane going deep to the right, deep to
the left, and the terrorists would say, we're not going
to make our mark. Let's just kill them, and so
they flew the plane up, twisted the plane upside down,
and that was that they didn't care.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
And saved countless lives. The hundreds maybe.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Even those are my favorite people of all time.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Okay, so my my question to you about the about
the volunteer work is I've been really fortunate to meet
some of the first responders recently, and every one of
(19:44):
them I've met her sick with some kind of weird
leukemia or stomach stuff. And they all have this this
cough that's odd call it. And you have that.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
And my husband and I compete every morning whose bark
is your husband?
Speaker 1 (20:02):
What?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
And I compete every morning whose bark is allowed as it?
And you call it the bark because it sounds like
we're barking.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
And tell me, tell me what what has cost medically
among the group of people.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
We had insurance and then the VCF came.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
The Victim's Compensation Fund, a federal program to cover the
medical bills for illnesses resulting from the toxic environment that
was ground zero.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
And basically we get free medicine. But it's hard to
get certified for any illness. We have to prove you
were there. We have to get Affter Davids, my husband,
for one, was there. I mean he signedist timesheets and
when he went after he got sick. He got sick
ten years later. He had already been retired. And when
(20:55):
he they told him, you can get three quarters for this.
This was on the job. Don't let go. They denied
him four times because you can still work, and he goes, no,
I'm a bodyguard and there are things I have to
do while I'm protecting someone that I cannot do, and
so it's their life or my job, and I'm here
(21:17):
to protect their lives. And he literally had to go
to another hearing and pull his pants down and show
his diapers.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (21:25):
No? No? And then the wives left behind, some of
these men and women. But I can only speak for
the women. I know. I'm in a support group, private
support group, because we have our husbands did not come home.
They didn't that their bodies did, put their minds, their
(21:48):
attitude everything is. We're married to two different men. They
get angry, they don't they won't do as they're told
in terms of medical Then we have to watch them
get sick. We have to watch them get worse. We
have our children have to watch it, and then that's time.
Then we have to watch them die. And then after
that we depend on what on our benefits because we've
(22:12):
been spending all this time taking care of them, and
then they're denied. Well no he didn't sign this. Oh no,
he was there.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
He was there.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
We have proof he was there, and that's never enough.
Our city failed us, our government failed us.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Are you Are you dealing with health issues?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
I gave up? Yes I have. Oh wow. They won't
approve my fibromiologia, which I never had before nine to eleven.
They won't approve my thyroid illness. They only gay. They
only approve my finess and my gird. That's it, and
I'm in constant pain. I've tried every treatment available to me,
(22:55):
but I only have one kidney do to cancer, and
there's a lot of things I can't take. My husband
had bladder cancer. Last year. They removed a tumor occupying
eighty five percent of his spine. But if you go
to a doctor now and you put down your medical
history and you say anything about nine to eleven, they
do this now. We don't want to have anything to
(23:17):
do with that. These are doctors, These are doctors. They
won't have anything to do with you. They don't want
to fill out any paperwork. And there is no paperwork
to fill out. Just write a letter.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
So can we say that the penalty that you and
your family are experiencing in many families that volunteered and
gave their time in the aftermath, and non one one
literally is killing you.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
It is.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I got to ask you, would you change it?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Would I change mind going down there.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Even though you're in constant pain, and even though you're
strapping cop husband had to demoralize himself to try to
get all of it, You wouldn't change a bit of it. Why?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Because it's humanity. It's humanity at its best. We have
to do what we can for each other. Otherwise your
community suffers. And what happens when there's another attack. Your
community isn't strong enough. People don't care enough for each other. Oh,
that's not my business, has nothing to do with me. Yes,
(24:25):
nine to eleven have to do with everybody. It was
a global event, ninety two nations were affected, but it
was also a personal event, and there are a lot
of people that died. No, I don't want to be bothered,
or some people that just can't because it's too hard.
I have friends that have moved out. I don't want
to be here.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Sonya, you know you were in your early twenties when
you saw the Lady fall out, and it started a
It started a decade's long journey for you of just
(25:05):
serving other people. And it's at this point cost you
and your husband your health. It's cost you your It
sounds to me like it's cost some of your happiness.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
It's cost us our daughter.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
It's cost you your daughter.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
We're speaking now, but at one point she screamed and
yelled and she said, I'm sick and tired of you
guys being so sick. I'm tired of this. And we
didn't hear from her for about six months, and my
husband I thought, this is the price we picked. She's
come back around since then, but she's angrier than ever
(25:46):
and we feel so guilty that we had a part
of that. There are a lot of people who I know,
one woman a good friend, husband is PD and his
attitude has changed so much that three of her children
want to die. They've actually attempted murder and she had
(26:07):
to leave the house because of abuse. And that's why
we have a private group survivors wives of nine to
eleven survivors, because we're paying at pray so that nobody
seems to understand. And we get told, well, you can
go to the group therapy. We don't want to talk
to a group of women that don't understand what we're
(26:27):
dealing with. And then we are told how ungrateful we
were that they came back, so you should be happy
that you're dealing with this. No, I didn't marry that guy,
and I didn't expect to lose my daughter either. And
though she's in our life and we have a beautiful granddaughter,
there's still that anger between us. And we just tried
(26:49):
that's a blessing. I just turn it off because it
might right now. It's like, I don't have time to
be a mother. I can only be a grandmother. And
these are the things we tell ourselves. But it's hurting us,
it's killing us. And we're not the only ones. There
are a lot of my girlfriends just says my daughter left,
my son left, or because my husband is this way.
(27:11):
So as wives, we've you know, we got to take
care of our partner, but we also have to take
care of our children, and if we try to do
either one, someone's always going to be angry at us.
I just live every day thanking God that he trusted
me enough to live another day. That's the way I
have to see it. Otherwise I know I will go
(27:33):
absolutely bonkers, and I don't have any intentions of doing that.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
We'll be right back. Talk a lot about on this
(28:03):
show about common people doing extraordinary things. That's that's the
whole idea of the army of normal folks. And you know,
there's just not much more normal than a than a
than a paramedic and a cop getting married in the
Bronx and living life. And the extraordinary things that you
did after Note to eleven just to serve and then
(28:26):
the extraordinary things you've done in the last few years
to tell the real story of Note eleven to people
who wanted to know what was going on, and all
that it's cost you, and you still say I wouldn't
change a bit of it, because it was just the
(28:47):
right thing to do.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
I mean, you have to do the right thing.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
But that is so inspirational. That is I just listen
some things that we've talked to people who are in
javer twenty something years and then they turn their life
around and they help others. We're talking to people who
take homeless people jogging and actually turn their lives around,
(29:12):
and all these stories. But the point is you are
living proof that you don't have to start a five
OHO one C three, You don't have to start a
massive organization, you don't have to raise a bunch of money.
You can be just a common living, trying to figure
it out person, just like the vast majority of us,
(29:34):
and still find ways to do amazing things to serve
their fellow man. And even in the face of sickness
and death, you still say that's what we have to do.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
We're responsible for each other. And I think that's what
we've lost an entire year f to nine to eleven.
You could look at someone in the face and say
how are you need stop and tell you you would
let people stand in front of you on the line
because they only had three items and you've been there
for twenty minutes. I believe you are where you're supposed
to be. Don't question it. It's just what we have
(30:12):
to do. And I our country has gone down the tubes.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
But so you're saying it's not a good thing to
give back. It's a responsibility.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
It's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
No, it's not just a good thing.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
It's a major responsibility. I mean, think about one thing
where I live. I live in a tall building. I
might have twelve people who live on the same floor.
I know there's about three elderly. If our internet is
off or we know we're getting a bad storm, I
immediately turn on make some soup, and I just leave
it in front of their door. Because some people are
(30:51):
very proud, and they looked at that as, oh, you
feel sorry for me. No, it's just being neighborly, just
to let you know there's somebody here to help you.
And I've had several people knock on my door who
you know, we just say hello to. And one of
them did do that a few years ago, and my
husband I Meana. She was working around the hallways crazy
and I bought her in. I went ran back to
(31:13):
apartment and I took all her meds and I called
nine one one. I just went on her cell phone
called the daughter and oh my god, they're transporting her.
I'll stay with you. No, I'm going to be there.
And two weeks later she came back. And in our culture,
an elephant is a good luck, blessing thing, and so
she brought me an elephant with some plants on it.
And you know, sadly, she would die six months later.
(31:36):
But I'm forever grateful that she knew at one point
in her life when she was all alone, that she
wasn't and no one should be alone. I love the holidays,
but I also hate them because I know so many
people are alone and they shouldn't be. And when my
daughter was in college, I would bring all the kids
over who couldn't afford to fly home. I mean, isn't
that what Mom's supposted. Wouldn't you, as a mother want
(31:58):
to know that someone's taking care of your kid and
nobody cares anymore. It's we don't live in the same
world we used to live in. I don't know this world,
but I refuse to give up. I'm not afraid either.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Well. I think the human spirit and the very things
that you're talking about, that that that that to demonstrate
our humanity. I think it still exists, but I think
it's examples of people just like you who help to
inspire people to remember that that humanity is important.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah. I don't see any rich people helping us. We
do it on our own. Yeah, we do it on
our room because we can. Doesn't whatever, it's what you listen.
I always tell anybody I have a spare room. It's
a little messy, but you're entitled to come over and stay.
You've got a private bathroom. And I do cook. There's
always a way. And just I just think.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Chicken and rice precisely what the world is that.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yeah, it's rice mixed with the chicken with peas, and
you cook it so that the rice tastes like chicken.
That's his favorite. He just recently got into Sloppy Joe's
and he goes, why didn't you have a cook back
from me and says, that's what I cooked when I
was single and couldn't afford to do anything. Goes, please
(33:21):
bring back those meals. So we're very listen. I married
a great guy. When I don't want to cook, if
it's not food, I'll take food he cooks. I you know,
I married the top of the mind. That's it, That's
all there is to it.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Sonya, you are again, You're an inspiration, You're you're adorable
to talk to you you got I wish, I wish
people could see this big, pretty smile. It just you
you talk with your hands. Yeah, you're just You're just
You're blast to talk to. And again, you know, I
(34:03):
don't want to overdo this, but I don't want to
sensationalize for the purposes of a show the story we've
talked about today. But I think it's really important people
understand just the depth of the carnage. And I think
it's important people understand that nine to eleven still hasn't
(34:24):
stopped killing. But more importantly, I want people to understand
that the hidden silver lining of the whole event is
that it did bring out some of the best of
our humanity.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
That whole year is beautiful year. My whole year is
a beautiful, beautiful year.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
And despite all the illness and pain and suffering those
that serve down there, I can't find any one of
them that would say, no, I wish I had to
go on ahead first, had to be there. But see,
isn't that what it means? To be an army of
normal folks, just normal folks as an army helping one
another out and trying to serve. Just for the love
(35:11):
of humanity.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
That's what's that's what's missing. But I've also seen it.
I've seen it lately, some people taking charge. How about
if we do this, how about do we build this garden?
How about if we do that. That's what I'm talking about.
You don't you don't need to go through written proposals
and you don't need to go to a Congress, and
they're not going to do I don't believe that they
(35:34):
do it.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
No, I have said plenty that I think the government
proves woefully inadequate. Yeah, in serving.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
And it's the people that are living this that know
how it's done and know what to do and know
the cost involved.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
So anybody listening to it, you don't. You don't have
to go join something. You just do it. Just go
do something, thank you, just serve. Just just do it.
Serve somebody that needs and.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
You're going to feel ten times better.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yeah, that is kind of the payoff that it is
my payoff. You get so much more out of it.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Listen, since I decided to start doing tours on my
own until Tribute gets back on its feet. I can't
tell you how many people come in and go, you're
doing this for free. And I go for now, because
you know Tribute needs to come back, and they go,
but you came all the way down here, I says,
but where did you come from? And we start that
conversation and then I tell them things that I think
(36:30):
everyone should know, and they go, we didn't know that. Well,
now you do. Now go back home and tell other people.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
And the irony is, you were supposed to have a
shift today to go volunteer to tell these stories.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
This was important.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, but that's what you're still doing.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
I am. I decided to do it on Saturday instead.
I just said, Georgia, he won't. He stopped doing tours
about four years.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
But he did do something.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
He did just some under the condition that I do
it with him. He would not talk with anyone else
in Tribute. You have a lead and then you have
a support. The support he After a while, he says,
I can't keep my story straight because so many things
keep coming back.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
And oh soo. As he was doing tours, he would
start remembering more and more stuff, and.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
So one day, I just took down and says, talk
to me. I made a list of questions, talk to me,
tell me, okay, what happened to this? And then and
I put it all together and go, hear, that's your story.
And if it's okay to tell people, I don't recall,
I don't remember. That evades me because they need to
also understand that our brains give us as much as
(37:44):
we can handle.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Yeah, sometimes suppressive.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
But he I think when COVID started and he lost
his good partner who was also sick from nine to eleven,
and we saw him one day and the finally she
was dead from it, that just that was enough for
him and he will go with me. We've spoken in
(38:08):
the precincts to the rookies. They don't know about nine
to eleven.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
We'll see. That's the other thing. I mean, you think
about what a rookie cop is what I twenty three,
twenty four, twenty five.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
They have no idea.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
They weren't even alive, some of them, and.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
If they were two three years old, and if they
had parents who were affected by nine to eleven, dad shows.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
So Joe's going and talking to the rookie cop.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
No I go, I book everything, and then I tell
I need you to be there.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Oh really, so you kidnap them?
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Are you kidnapper?
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Absolutely? With pride. And when I get I go, gee,
I'm just so exhausted. Can you handle this part for me?
And he yeah, okay, so you did it again? No, seriously,
you don't have to go if you don't want to.
I just know that game so well. When you become
a parent, you learn a lot more things. And he'll
do it. He'll just talk briefly, but once he.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Gets to he won't. My man is back, yeahcha.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
And so I don't force him. But if I know
that this is an opportunity where he gets to speak
to other officers, that's his thing.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Yeah, of course, it's the brotherhood.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Otherwise, can you talk to my friend? You know, she'll
never understand.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
And I believe that, you know, But that's a lot
like you hear people from war coming back and they
won't talk with their families, but if you get them
around a bunch of vets, they'll all talk about My
father never talked about it because they can identify with
each other.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
My father never told us he was shot in the
Korean War. He never told us how bad it was.
He did show us his bayonet and said, so this
is what you do. You going like this and you
do like that. Yeah, No, I don't want to go
to war. I have to be that close to someone
and stab him. Yet, No, that's all he told us.
That's all he had. My mother lived during the war,
came over from the Netherlands with my grandfather, was sent
(39:57):
to Puerto Ricos. She would never talk about it.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
And so Joe will open up when he's in the
safety of people that are in that place.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
He knows that no one's going to judge him, and
he knows that they know.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Yeah, well that's good though.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Well what's important for me was I started writing notebooks
to our granddaughter. And then about four years ago, Joe
had a child from a previous marriage and she would
not allow the child to come around. And now we
have another granddaughter.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Well that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
So I've started dividing what I have and doing it
for her. Because nobody told us in our family their history,
and it has to start some matter, It has to
start somewhere. I want them to know that there's a
lot they can do, and.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
That's what they need to know is that their grandfather
Joe and their grandmothers Sonya are heroes. Well, you know,
I know the self effacing thing, and I know it
feels bad to hear that, but I'm telling you. You know,
you guys, you guys have given your life to serving
(41:03):
this community and it's it's inspiring and you're still dealing
with with with physical and mental and psychological pain from it.
Yet you wouldn't change a minute about what you did.
And you know you can. You can all shox it
all you want, but that is the definition of it.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
I change some of the things that I did do
to protect myself, but that wasn't what was on my mind.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
I understand. But that is that's heroic work, and it's
inspiring work, and it encapsulates what it means to be
just a member of the army of normal folk, just
normal folk doing amazing things. And I'm inspired by you.
And I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed visiting
(41:52):
with you this.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
I'm inspired by you in that wonderful documentary. Oh now
you're doing what I did well.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
No, I coached football, you say it's.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Not, but you saved lives. Maybe you don't know that
but you saved lives of all those people you touched.
So you are a hero, is an ordinary person who
does extraordinary things, and that's what you did.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Well, then there were just kindred spirits.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Okay, then then I'll take the hero. If you take
the here, I'll take it. Okay, we're good. Then.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
So we do a lot of stories on a lot
of different things, like I said earlier, and one of
the things we really encourage folks to do is just
to I give out my email address. If someone is
listening today and says, you know, I can't start a
five oh one C three or I can't start a
big organization, but I'm sure seck just find a place
(42:42):
to volunteer. Or even if they're in New York and
they have an experience that they want to share, do
you mind giving our listeners your email address so somebody
can reach out to you.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Absolutely not. I will give you the one email address.
It's mine.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Yeah, emails, it's all your.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Personal stuff, but it's uh sonya s O n I
A A gron a g r O N night Tom.
I'm giving you my age fifty seven at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
All right, say it one more time and remember that
our This is a national audience and people from Memphis
think you guys talk funny, So.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Should I talk little flying?
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (43:25):
I want me okay, sadly, but more time, Sonya s
O N I A A gron A g R O n.
Nineteen fifty seven at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Awesome high five in the in this shadow of the
Freedom Tower. I say to you, thank you so much
for the time this morning, and it has been an
honor to get to meet you.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Thank you so much. It was an honor to be here.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
And thank you for joining us this week. To join
an army of normal folks, go to normal folks dot
us sign up to become a member of the movement.
We would love to hear what you're doing in your community.
And if there's stories you know about that you think
we should tell, write me anytime at Bill at normalfolks
(44:12):
dot us. And if you enjoy this episode, subscribe, rate
and review it, share it with friends and on social
all the things that can help us grow an army
of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you next week.
Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney again with an army of
normal folks. Let's continue with part two of our conversation
with Sonya Agron. Right after these brief messages from our
generous sponsors, you decide you've got to do something. And
(00:31):
this is where I find you amazing. Is I don't
explain it to us, But so I understand now. I
didn't that the Red Cross had centers for the first responders,
and some of these guys would work all day and
(00:52):
wouldn't even go home. And they would go and sleep
in a center near ground zero and get a little
rest and rust up and then go back. And they
would never go home. So they actually worked and slept there.
And these sinners need to be need to be run,
and you volunteered there. Yeah, and so tell me what
(01:15):
go into what I just said, Explain that how it worked.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
How it worked was my first responsibility was just to
help them get food. So many amazing people donated so
much food I couldn't eat. I felt I was taking
something away from someone else. And about two days later,
and I wouldn't talk to anybody. For the first time
in my life, I wasn't this bubbly person I didn't
(01:40):
know how to be, and I I started doing these
hero sticks, making little flags saying they were hero sticks
you did to fight.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Crime andold you making them out of they.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Were chapsticks, and I just put little rabels on them,
hear your hero And then I would buy a bunch
of life savers, put them in a bag and just
say because you are a lifesaver. Because many of them
weren't feeling that. But it was the only way I
could speak. I could not speak. And about two days
(02:12):
after my midnight shift, my leader with a bunch of
others say we're going to ground zero and I asked,
are we aloud? And she goes, have you ever looked
at your ID? It's the first time I did, and
it said access everywhere, and I thought, oh, well, this
is not going to please my husband.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
You had more access than me.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
But we went down to pray. I know now where
I was, because as you both know, I have no
sense of direction.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Well, but the bottom line is also there's really no
clues anymore because it's just rubble.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
But I know now that I was near the North
Tower and the North Tower Bridge, and the way it
looked it was like I'm standing up here, and all
of a sudden, I can see this big hole and
it wasn't even as big as it turned out to
be at the end when they had cleaned it.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
All up, and that was because it was filled with
the building.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yes, And I just said, naively, where is everything? And
one of them grabbed me and hugged me, says, so
you're the New Yorker, And I said, but where is everything?
I knew it was gone. I've seen the pictures, but
when you see it up close, it is totally different.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Okay, So paint that picture for me all my senses.
What did it sound like? What did it smell like?
Could you taste it?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I could taste it like rotten peaches, rotten peaches. I
only eat nectarines now I can't deal with peaches really rotten,
just rotten, and it.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Could so you could still taste it. What did it
smell like?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Oh, well, Nia mesked me know what death smells like.
They give us these little bats, So like, oh it
was death, it was it was flesh.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
You could smell that. Still.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I go into the historical exhibit and I know there
are no smells there, There's nothing there. But as soon
as I walk into a certain area and I have
to walk back up because I'm right there. Again, my
husband's only done it once and that was when they
gave us an exhibit and he went in. I said,
you have to you know, you were part of this.
We're trying to tell a story that people don't understand.
(04:25):
And he said, just get me to the site and
let's get out.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
What did it feel like?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Scary? Scary to a point? After that visit with my
team leader, I went back and everything looked different for me.
I understood why people were hugging. I understood the reason
why people were just holding hands. I didn't want to
do any of that.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Strangers really yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
You know, like, how are you doing this? You don't
really know each other. But I understood as soon as
I came back from the site and I looked in,
I said, they're comforting each other. And at that moment,
they told me your assignment has been changed, and I said,
where am I going? You're going up stairs take care
first responders. And I thought that was a blessing because
(05:13):
I couldn't help my husband.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
So you're standing there and it smells like rotten peaches. No,
it tastes like speeches like it smells like burning, and
there were.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Other smells and I knew there were fires from the
building smoke still, yeah, oh there was definitely it smelled.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Liked Sophiel at all.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
You know, I don't recollect that.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I just I've always wondered from the planes, because that's
what started the fire. If you could still smell that.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
It might happen the first week or two, but I
didn't smell it when I came in on.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Okay, So it tastes the smell? Did it feel gritty?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Every gritty gritty? Everything was gritty from my shoes. When
we got outside. We had to get another vest on.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Okay. And you see a hole that's basically a building filled?
Could you? And I guess you see people working on
top of the rubble and what did you hear? Wow?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
You hear a lot of trucks. You hear the sounds.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Of those big excavators, machinery.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
The machinery, but the wind, the lights, a.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Big light, oh, the generators.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Okay, they were going on. And it didn't look like nighttime.
It looked like you were in Vegas when it's nine
and all that you see as left.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Okay, Well that's Another thing to see is so middle
of the night, but it's bright everywhere because it's twenty
four hours.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
You see fires. And I remember when I got out
the first time, how did my shoes get so muddy?
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Really?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah? And I was standing No, it was mudpiles because
they had been spraying the whole entire area to you know,
break down any flax and this was the residue. And
you know, I wondered, where are my shoes us I'm
standing right here, and somebody said, just put them out,
we'll get them cleaned for you. And okay, And I was.
I was so robotic at that moment, but something changed
(07:11):
when they put me into work as first responders.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, and so from there, you that's the thing you get.
What you're volunteering to do is actually tend to the
first responders that are coming to these what.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Are they called respit censors. They're each.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
So they set up restpit centers so that a fireman
or any first responder or police officer whatever, they work
until they're about to drop, they're covered. The reason I
wanted these senses. They're covered in the soot and this
mud and this filth, and they must stink like death.
And rotten peaches. They have to have it all over them.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
What I remember is how dirty they looked. I would
give them enough close to shower just to change it
under garments, And what didn't go away was the smell
of smoke. Even though they had clean undergarments, they still
(08:12):
had to wear their uniforms.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Oh, so that stench.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Now, that does not And we did everything. We banged
it whatever I could. It didn't matter.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
So you're you're in these respite centers taking care of
the first responders. They're in this mess, breathing this crap
andhaling it, trying to clean and find, frankly body parts
so that some family can have just a piece of
(08:43):
their loved one. I can't even believe I'm saying this,
but this is what. This is reality, And they're coming
to a respite center that you're now at to with
other volunteers to help these folks get a little rest,
and they don't even go home. And then they get
and they go right back to it. And this went
on for months.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yeah, this went on for months. One of the issues
we had on our team was firefighters could take off
their garments and put it on the edge of the floor,
and we also had engineers and all that, but when
it came to police officers, they couldn't take their guns off.
And so a lot of the people that I was
(09:23):
working would say, we don't know how to wake them
up because they jump, And I go, I know how
they jump and gun? Yeah, And so I said, here,
follow me, this is what you do. What's their first name?
So I just go up to the head, rub their faces,
whisper in their ears their name, and they're going to
think their home. And that's exactly what happened. These guys
(09:44):
bleach strangers didn't matter. They weren't strangers. They were family.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Because you're literally rubbing these guys.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Rubbing some other's women's husband's face. But it didn't matter.
They didn't wake up in shock. They didn't wake up
thinking something else is happening. And for those who are
working with me, they say thank you because we would
just shine flashlights in their face hoping they would wake up,
and they would still jump up.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
One of the things I've read about shock, and one
of the things I've read about people that come home
from war is one of the hardest things they have
to do is actually sleep. That in closing their eyes,
their mind immediately goes to the horror that they've experienced,
and by not sleeping and keeping your eyes open, your
(10:33):
mind doesn't trick you into having to relive that horror.
And what that leads to, though, is people who are
already in a stressful situation, they don't get enough sleep,
and then it exacerbates the problem. So it's like, damned
if you're damned if you don't. Were any of the guys,
(10:54):
I mean, we're talking about firefighters and policemen. We're talking about,
you know, goud guys rolling in these splices, and so
I got to believe they're walking in with this facade
of I'm tough as hell. But then they shower and
they try to get cleaned up, and now they're supposed
to get rested. Did any of them struggle? Was just sleep?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
The few that I had when I would get them
to their assigned cots, would grab my hand to wrist
and tell me, can you just sit with me for
a minute. And it was at that moment that I
understood why my husband couldn't sleep. And they, some of them,
said I can't. I don't want to see what I
just saw, and whatever they wanted me to do, I
(11:38):
would do so. If it was a dumb joke, I
would say and I'd invent one. Some of them wanted
to pray, some of them just wanted to put their
heads on my shoulder. And I did it because I
felt I couldn't do it for my husband. Maybe somebody
in the day too, it would do it for him.
Just payd forward.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
And did you let these guys know that you were married.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
To a Absolutely I had money.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
So they knew that you knew what the job was.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, and I show them, I says, listen, you know
I'm not on the job, but I am on the job.
And they would smile, they would talk to me, and
that would mean their whole entire forty minute rest.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Forty minutes.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, some of them got an out because some of
them were still on duty. They were given an hour break,
and they decided, oh, that's where I'm going to go.
And then they realized that's where we can't go because
we can't we were not resting. And imagine you and
police officer with all this equipment on, couldn't take any
part of your uniform on because if they called you,
you had to be ready to respond. And so for me.
(12:38):
The best part and the worst part of my job
was bringing comfort anybody who wanted. It didn't matter to
me who you were, what you were crying about, whatever
you wanted to tell me. Stayed with me. And as
the days went on, I understood why my husband wouldn't talk.
I understood a lot about him.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Well, you didn't have to do this. You were voluntar.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I volunteered because it's your responsibility. Whether you're emt or not,
this is your community. You have to get involved with
your community. If you're not, then what's the point. It
takes a village. And I was part of that village.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
So that's the point is you know, you're sure, you're
an empty sure your husband's on the job, but you know,
you just you're Sonia from the Brons and and the
worst thing that's happened in our country since Pearl Harbor,
(13:36):
and in the midst of what we've described of true
human horror. You go down there every day simply to
try to console and take care of the people that
are trying to take care of this mess.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I think everyone should have.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
And how long did you do that?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
I was there until the mid December when my husband
asked me to please not go anymore. So four months, Yeah,
he didn't want me to go back anymore. And my
daughter was also. It was his mom, I can't sleep,
I can't go to school. And I said, okay, I
(14:14):
have to be a wife and I have to be
a mom. But I felt I did something and I continue.
I started from there doing other things just for people
who weren't there here.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
How close are these rest but centers if you're only
getting a forty five minute break, they must be right
on top of it.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Saint John's was I think three blocks away Stuyvesant.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
So three blocks, two or three blocks?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, and then they had tents.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Okay, Well, even when you're not on ground zero, even
working at these places, you're in the midst of it all.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
We sort of smoke and fire for months.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
So how many volunteers were there like you?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Oh wow? For the Red Cross? All I can tell
you is my midnight team had about twenty, with myself included.
You couldn't leave unless somebody came to replace us. But
it was round the clock, and some of them that
I spoke to weren't.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Even And there were many respite centers.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yes, you had the Married Hotel, that had respite centers whatever. Well,
I can't say Burger King because that was a center
for the police department. But wherever there was a hotel
or something big enough to house people, that was what
was done for thousands, I would say, yeah, and a
(15:28):
lot of those stories don't even exist anymore, all.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Of whom breathed in this toxic crowd YEP, we'll be
right back. So we're twenty years later and you're still volunteering.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I never left. I mean, except for the seven years
that we couldn't talk about nine to eleven, I never left.
My heart was always there. And when the opportunity came
up after my mom passed. Before she passed, she reminded
me that I said I was still going to do
something for the community, and she goes, you've been taking
care of me too long. And the day after we
(16:20):
buried her, I got the email from Tribute. Are you
still interested?
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Tell me to explain to our listeners attributed The.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Nine to eleven Tribu Museum was the first museum on
ground zero and it was started by the September eleventh
Families Association, and we actually started on the streets. We
didn't have offices or anything. We would just pull people
the next would you like to go? And we can
tell you. And the criteria of the nine to eleven
Tribune Museum was that the only people who could do
(16:48):
this were people who had a personal connection.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
So the only people who could do tours or talks.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
We've gone to school, I've gone to Japan, and so
it's either first responder recovery work, or a survivor, a
family member or a resident. Because we were directly affected,
and that became the difference between what we do and
what the National Museum does. And it was not only
to tell the stories. That's what we thought we were doing.
(17:16):
What we realized very soon was that we were healing
because you're talking to strangers who aren't going to tell
you move on and get over it. And at the end,
those strangers became our friends. They hugged us. Some of
them have kept in touch with us. They've come back three,
four or five times and they will say, oh, we
want to tour with Sonya and I go. There are
(17:38):
so many other people. Yeh know, we want to hear
it from you, and we put a face on nine
to eleven. But people forget about the flight ninety three
where there were forty people, which used to be always
two hundred. That flight took off late, and these forty
people knew they were being hijacked, they knew where they
were going, and they made the democratic decision when that
(17:59):
plane was over land or water, that they would take
over that cockpit, even though they knew they would die.
And I always say not to take away from any
of our first responders, but those were our first heroes.
They knew what was going to.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Happen, because whatever that plane was going to hit, they
saved and whatever. Some think it was the Capital, some
think it was the.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
White It was it was the Capital because Congress was
in session.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
That was the first day I had to have been.
I think it was New.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
York's the world's economy, world's military, which was the Pentagon
and the Capitol, and they got two out of three.
But we owe these forty people are dead, a gratitude
that they knew. They didn't know why, but they knew.
They were getting calls information, and they said, we're not
letting this happen. By that time, I believe both captains
were murdered, and there is a black box that was taken.
(18:54):
We've gone to Shanksville, and there is a display of
how the plane was. People were fighting and you can
see the plane going deep to the right, deep to
the left, and the terrorists would say, we're not going
to make our mark. Let's just kill them, and so
they flew the plane up, twisted the plane upside down,
and that was that they didn't care.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
And saved countless lives. The hundreds maybe.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Even those are my favorite people of all time.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Okay, so my my question to you about the about
the volunteer work is I've been really fortunate to meet
some of the first responders recently, and every one of
(19:44):
them I've met her sick with some kind of weird
leukemia or stomach stuff. And they all have this this
cough that's odd call it. And you have that.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
And my husband and I compete every morning whose bark
is your husband?
Speaker 1 (20:02):
What?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
And I compete every morning whose bark is allowed as it?
And you call it the bark because it sounds like
we're barking.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
And tell me, tell me what what has cost medically
among the group of people.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
We had insurance and then the VCF came.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
The Victim's Compensation Fund, a federal program to cover the
medical bills for illnesses resulting from the toxic environment that
was ground zero.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
And basically we get free medicine. But it's hard to
get certified for any illness. We have to prove you
were there. We have to get Affter Davids, my husband,
for one, was there. I mean he signedist timesheets and
when he went after he got sick. He got sick
ten years later. He had already been retired. And when
(20:55):
he they told him, you can get three quarters for this.
This was on the job. Don't let go. They denied
him four times because you can still work, and he goes, no,
I'm a bodyguard and there are things I have to
do while I'm protecting someone that I cannot do, and
so it's their life or my job, and I'm here
(21:17):
to protect their lives. And he literally had to go
to another hearing and pull his pants down and show
his diapers.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (21:25):
No? No? And then the wives left behind, some of
these men and women. But I can only speak for
the women. I know. I'm in a support group, private
support group, because we have our husbands did not come home.
They didn't that their bodies did, put their minds, their
(21:48):
attitude everything is. We're married to two different men. They
get angry, they don't they won't do as they're told
in terms of medical Then we have to watch them
get sick. We have to watch them get worse. We
have our children have to watch it, and then that's time.
Then we have to watch them die. And then after
that we depend on what on our benefits because we've
(22:12):
been spending all this time taking care of them, and
then they're denied. Well no he didn't sign this. Oh no,
he was there.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
He was there.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
We have proof he was there, and that's never enough.
Our city failed us, our government failed us.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Are you Are you dealing with health issues?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
I gave up? Yes I have. Oh wow. They won't
approve my fibromiologia, which I never had before nine to eleven.
They won't approve my thyroid illness. They only gay. They
only approve my finess and my gird. That's it, and
I'm in constant pain. I've tried every treatment available to me,
(22:55):
but I only have one kidney do to cancer, and
there's a lot of things I can't take. My husband
had bladder cancer. Last year. They removed a tumor occupying
eighty five percent of his spine. But if you go
to a doctor now and you put down your medical
history and you say anything about nine to eleven, they
do this now. We don't want to have anything to
(23:17):
do with that. These are doctors, These are doctors. They
won't have anything to do with you. They don't want
to fill out any paperwork. And there is no paperwork
to fill out. Just write a letter.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
So can we say that the penalty that you and
your family are experiencing in many families that volunteered and
gave their time in the aftermath, and non one one
literally is killing you.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
It is.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I got to ask you, would you change it?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Would I change mind going down there.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Even though you're in constant pain, and even though you're
strapping cop husband had to demoralize himself to try to
get all of it, You wouldn't change a bit of it. Why?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Because it's humanity. It's humanity at its best. We have
to do what we can for each other. Otherwise your
community suffers. And what happens when there's another attack. Your
community isn't strong enough. People don't care enough for each other. Oh,
that's not my business, has nothing to do with me. Yes,
(24:25):
nine to eleven have to do with everybody. It was
a global event, ninety two nations were affected, but it
was also a personal event, and there are a lot
of people that died. No, I don't want to be bothered,
or some people that just can't because it's too hard.
I have friends that have moved out. I don't want
to be here.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Sonya, you know you were in your early twenties when
you saw the Lady fall out, and it started a
It started a decade's long journey for you of just
(25:05):
serving other people. And it's at this point cost you
and your husband your health. It's cost you your It
sounds to me like it's cost some of your happiness.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
It's cost us our daughter.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
It's cost you your daughter.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
We're speaking now, but at one point she screamed and
yelled and she said, I'm sick and tired of you
guys being so sick. I'm tired of this. And we
didn't hear from her for about six months, and my
husband I thought, this is the price we picked. She's
come back around since then, but she's angrier than ever
(25:46):
and we feel so guilty that we had a part
of that. There are a lot of people who I know,
one woman a good friend, husband is PD and his
attitude has changed so much that three of her children
want to die. They've actually attempted murder and she had
(26:07):
to leave the house because of abuse. And that's why
we have a private group survivors wives of nine to
eleven survivors, because we're paying at pray so that nobody
seems to understand. And we get told, well, you can
go to the group therapy. We don't want to talk
to a group of women that don't understand what we're
(26:27):
dealing with. And then we are told how ungrateful we
were that they came back, so you should be happy
that you're dealing with this. No, I didn't marry that guy,
and I didn't expect to lose my daughter either. And
though she's in our life and we have a beautiful granddaughter,
there's still that anger between us. And we just tried
(26:49):
that's a blessing. I just turn it off because it
might right now. It's like, I don't have time to
be a mother. I can only be a grandmother. And
these are the things we tell ourselves. But it's hurting us,
it's killing us. And we're not the only ones. There
are a lot of my girlfriends just says my daughter left,
my son left, or because my husband is this way.
(27:11):
So as wives, we've you know, we got to take
care of our partner, but we also have to take
care of our children, and if we try to do
either one, someone's always going to be angry at us.
I just live every day thanking God that he trusted
me enough to live another day. That's the way I
have to see it. Otherwise I know I will go
(27:33):
absolutely bonkers, and I don't have any intentions of doing that.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
We'll be right back. Talk a lot about on this
(28:03):
show about common people doing extraordinary things. That's that's the
whole idea of the army of normal folks. And you know,
there's just not much more normal than a than a
than a paramedic and a cop getting married in the
Bronx and living life. And the extraordinary things that you
did after Note to eleven just to serve and then
(28:26):
the extraordinary things you've done in the last few years
to tell the real story of Note eleven to people
who wanted to know what was going on, and all
that it's cost you, and you still say I wouldn't
change a bit of it, because it was just the
(28:47):
right thing to do.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
I mean, you have to do the right thing.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
But that is so inspirational. That is I just listen
some things that we've talked to people who are in
javer twenty something years and then they turn their life
around and they help others. We're talking to people who
take homeless people jogging and actually turn their lives around,
(29:12):
and all these stories. But the point is you are
living proof that you don't have to start a five
OHO one C three, You don't have to start a
massive organization, you don't have to raise a bunch of money.
You can be just a common living, trying to figure
it out person, just like the vast majority of us,
(29:34):
and still find ways to do amazing things to serve
their fellow man. And even in the face of sickness
and death, you still say that's what we have to do.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
We're responsible for each other. And I think that's what
we've lost an entire year f to nine to eleven.
You could look at someone in the face and say
how are you need stop and tell you you would
let people stand in front of you on the line
because they only had three items and you've been there
for twenty minutes. I believe you are where you're supposed
to be. Don't question it. It's just what we have
(30:12):
to do. And I our country has gone down the tubes.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
But so you're saying it's not a good thing to
give back. It's a responsibility.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
It's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
No, it's not just a good thing.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
It's a major responsibility. I mean, think about one thing
where I live. I live in a tall building. I
might have twelve people who live on the same floor.
I know there's about three elderly. If our internet is
off or we know we're getting a bad storm, I
immediately turn on make some soup, and I just leave
it in front of their door. Because some people are
(30:51):
very proud, and they looked at that as, oh, you
feel sorry for me. No, it's just being neighborly, just
to let you know there's somebody here to help you.
And I've had several people knock on my door who
you know, we just say hello to. And one of
them did do that a few years ago, and my
husband I Meana. She was working around the hallways crazy
and I bought her in. I went ran back to
(31:13):
apartment and I took all her meds and I called
nine one one. I just went on her cell phone
called the daughter and oh my god, they're transporting her.
I'll stay with you. No, I'm going to be there.
And two weeks later she came back. And in our culture,
an elephant is a good luck, blessing thing, and so
she brought me an elephant with some plants on it.
And you know, sadly, she would die six months later.
(31:36):
But I'm forever grateful that she knew at one point
in her life when she was all alone, that she
wasn't and no one should be alone. I love the holidays,
but I also hate them because I know so many
people are alone and they shouldn't be. And when my
daughter was in college, I would bring all the kids
over who couldn't afford to fly home. I mean, isn't
that what Mom's supposted. Wouldn't you, as a mother want
(31:58):
to know that someone's taking care of your kid and
nobody cares anymore. It's we don't live in the same
world we used to live in. I don't know this world,
but I refuse to give up. I'm not afraid either.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Well. I think the human spirit and the very things
that you're talking about, that that that that to demonstrate
our humanity. I think it still exists, but I think
it's examples of people just like you who help to
inspire people to remember that that humanity is important.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah. I don't see any rich people helping us. We
do it on our own. Yeah, we do it on
our room because we can. Doesn't whatever, it's what you listen.
I always tell anybody I have a spare room. It's
a little messy, but you're entitled to come over and stay.
You've got a private bathroom. And I do cook. There's
always a way. And just I just think.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Chicken and rice precisely what the world is that.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yeah, it's rice mixed with the chicken with peas, and
you cook it so that the rice tastes like chicken.
That's his favorite. He just recently got into Sloppy Joe's
and he goes, why didn't you have a cook back
from me and says, that's what I cooked when I
was single and couldn't afford to do anything. Goes, please
(33:21):
bring back those meals. So we're very listen. I married
a great guy. When I don't want to cook, if
it's not food, I'll take food he cooks. I you know,
I married the top of the mind. That's it, That's
all there is to it.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Sonya, you are again, You're an inspiration, You're you're adorable
to talk to you you got I wish, I wish
people could see this big, pretty smile. It just you
you talk with your hands. Yeah, you're just You're just
You're blast to talk to. And again, you know, I
(34:03):
don't want to overdo this, but I don't want to
sensationalize for the purposes of a show the story we've
talked about today. But I think it's really important people
understand just the depth of the carnage. And I think
it's important people understand that nine to eleven still hasn't
(34:24):
stopped killing. But more importantly, I want people to understand
that the hidden silver lining of the whole event is
that it did bring out some of the best of
our humanity.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
That whole year is beautiful year. My whole year is
a beautiful, beautiful year.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
And despite all the illness and pain and suffering those
that serve down there, I can't find any one of
them that would say, no, I wish I had to
go on ahead first, had to be there. But see,
isn't that what it means? To be an army of
normal folks, just normal folks as an army helping one
another out and trying to serve. Just for the love
(35:11):
of humanity.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
That's what's that's what's missing. But I've also seen it.
I've seen it lately, some people taking charge. How about
if we do this, how about do we build this garden?
How about if we do that. That's what I'm talking about.
You don't you don't need to go through written proposals
and you don't need to go to a Congress, and
they're not going to do I don't believe that they
(35:34):
do it.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
No, I have said plenty that I think the government
proves woefully inadequate. Yeah, in serving.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
And it's the people that are living this that know
how it's done and know what to do and know
the cost involved.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
So anybody listening to it, you don't. You don't have
to go join something. You just do it. Just go
do something, thank you, just serve. Just just do it.
Serve somebody that needs and.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
You're going to feel ten times better.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yeah, that is kind of the payoff that it is
my payoff. You get so much more out of it.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Listen, since I decided to start doing tours on my
own until Tribute gets back on its feet. I can't
tell you how many people come in and go, you're
doing this for free. And I go for now, because
you know Tribute needs to come back, and they go,
but you came all the way down here, I says,
but where did you come from? And we start that
conversation and then I tell them things that I think
(36:30):
everyone should know, and they go, we didn't know that. Well,
now you do. Now go back home and tell other people.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
And the irony is, you were supposed to have a
shift today to go volunteer to tell these stories.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
This was important.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, but that's what you're still doing.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
I am. I decided to do it on Saturday instead.
I just said, Georgia, he won't. He stopped doing tours
about four years.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
But he did do something.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
He did just some under the condition that I do
it with him. He would not talk with anyone else
in Tribute. You have a lead and then you have
a support. The support he After a while, he says,
I can't keep my story straight because so many things
keep coming back.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
And oh soo. As he was doing tours, he would
start remembering more and more stuff, and.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
So one day, I just took down and says, talk
to me. I made a list of questions, talk to me,
tell me, okay, what happened to this? And then and
I put it all together and go, hear, that's your story.
And if it's okay to tell people, I don't recall,
I don't remember. That evades me because they need to
also understand that our brains give us as much as
(37:44):
we can handle.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Yeah, sometimes suppressive.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
But he I think when COVID started and he lost
his good partner who was also sick from nine to eleven,
and we saw him one day and the finally she
was dead from it, that just that was enough for
him and he will go with me. We've spoken in
(38:08):
the precincts to the rookies. They don't know about nine
to eleven.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
We'll see. That's the other thing. I mean, you think
about what a rookie cop is what I twenty three,
twenty four, twenty five.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
They have no idea.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
They weren't even alive, some of them, and.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
If they were two three years old, and if they
had parents who were affected by nine to eleven, dad shows.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
So Joe's going and talking to the rookie cop.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
No I go, I book everything, and then I tell
I need you to be there.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Oh really, so you kidnap them?
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Are you kidnapper?
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Absolutely? With pride. And when I get I go, gee,
I'm just so exhausted. Can you handle this part for me?
And he yeah, okay, so you did it again? No, seriously,
you don't have to go if you don't want to.
I just know that game so well. When you become
a parent, you learn a lot more things. And he'll
do it. He'll just talk briefly, but once he.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Gets to he won't. My man is back, yeahcha.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
And so I don't force him. But if I know
that this is an opportunity where he gets to speak
to other officers, that's his thing.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Yeah, of course, it's the brotherhood.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Otherwise, can you talk to my friend? You know, she'll
never understand.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
And I believe that, you know, But that's a lot
like you hear people from war coming back and they
won't talk with their families, but if you get them
around a bunch of vets, they'll all talk about My
father never talked about it because they can identify with
each other.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
My father never told us he was shot in the
Korean War. He never told us how bad it was.
He did show us his bayonet and said, so this
is what you do. You going like this and you
do like that. Yeah, No, I don't want to go
to war. I have to be that close to someone
and stab him. Yet, No, that's all he told us.
That's all he had. My mother lived during the war,
came over from the Netherlands with my grandfather, was sent
(39:57):
to Puerto Ricos. She would never talk about it.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
And so Joe will open up when he's in the
safety of people that are in that place.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
He knows that no one's going to judge him, and
he knows that they know.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Yeah, well that's good though.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Well what's important for me was I started writing notebooks
to our granddaughter. And then about four years ago, Joe
had a child from a previous marriage and she would
not allow the child to come around. And now we
have another granddaughter.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Well that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
So I've started dividing what I have and doing it
for her. Because nobody told us in our family their history,
and it has to start some matter, It has to
start somewhere. I want them to know that there's a
lot they can do, and.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
That's what they need to know is that their grandfather
Joe and their grandmothers Sonya are heroes. Well, you know,
I know the self effacing thing, and I know it
feels bad to hear that, but I'm telling you. You know,
you guys, you guys have given your life to serving
(41:03):
this community and it's it's inspiring and you're still dealing
with with with physical and mental and psychological pain from it.
Yet you wouldn't change a minute about what you did.
And you know you can. You can all shox it
all you want, but that is the definition of it.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
I change some of the things that I did do
to protect myself, but that wasn't what was on my mind.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
I understand. But that is that's heroic work, and it's
inspiring work, and it encapsulates what it means to be
just a member of the army of normal folk, just
normal folk doing amazing things. And I'm inspired by you.
And I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed visiting
(41:52):
with you this.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
I'm inspired by you in that wonderful documentary. Oh now
you're doing what I did well.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
No, I coached football, you say it's.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Not, but you saved lives. Maybe you don't know that
but you saved lives of all those people you touched.
So you are a hero, is an ordinary person who
does extraordinary things, and that's what you did.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Well, then there were just kindred spirits.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Okay, then then I'll take the hero. If you take
the here, I'll take it. Okay, we're good. Then.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
So we do a lot of stories on a lot
of different things, like I said earlier, and one of
the things we really encourage folks to do is just
to I give out my email address. If someone is
listening today and says, you know, I can't start a
five oh one C three or I can't start a
big organization, but I'm sure seck just find a place
(42:42):
to volunteer. Or even if they're in New York and
they have an experience that they want to share, do
you mind giving our listeners your email address so somebody
can reach out to you.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Absolutely not. I will give you the one email address.
It's mine.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Yeah, emails, it's all your.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Personal stuff, but it's uh sonya s O n I
A A gron a g r O N night Tom.
I'm giving you my age fifty seven at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
All right, say it one more time and remember that
our This is a national audience and people from Memphis
think you guys talk funny, So.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Should I talk little flying?
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (43:25):
I want me okay, sadly, but more time, Sonya s
O N I A A gron A g R O n.
Nineteen fifty seven at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Awesome high five in the in this shadow of the
Freedom Tower. I say to you, thank you so much
for the time this morning, and it has been an
honor to get to meet you.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Thank you so much. It was an honor to be here.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
And thank you for joining us this week. To join
an army of normal folks, go to normal folks dot
us sign up to become a member of the movement.
We would love to hear what you're doing in your community.
And if there's stories you know about that you think
we should tell, write me anytime at Bill at normalfolks
(44:12):
dot us. And if you enjoy this episode, subscribe, rate
and review it, share it with friends and on social
all the things that can help us grow an army
of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you next week.
Host
Bill Courtney
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