October 3, 2025 • 29 mins
For Shop Talk, we reflect on the assassination of Charlie Kirk, the disturbing share of Americans who think such actions are justified, and what An Army of Normal Folks can do about it.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey everybody, it's Bill Courtney. Welcome to shop talk. What's up, Alex,
Welcome in.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
You got a big w this weekend?
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Did we? Did we? Uh? We? Oh your time stamp
on this. It's actually gonna this Friday. Oh okay, all right,
Well yeah we beat LSU. Yeah, beat the Bengals. Send
them back to Baton Rouge where they belong.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Actually, one thing I heard about this weekend, I guess
often like a victory like that, if you beat a
number four team, the students rush the field.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah, well we didn't. I don't.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, you know what because if we get a massive
fine I read No, it's not Blane Kiffin asked them,
not the rush of the field.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
No, becauys, we expect to win now, it's a big deal.
What I was curious about is, you know, if you
it's almost insulting. I get it to the number four
team in the country that everybody's like, okay, yeah, we
beat him, but we're not going to rush field and
dang down the goalpost for LSU. I mean, we're supposed
to beat him now.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's kind of like players are celebrating the end zone.
It's like you're supposed to score.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah, I mean, just hand the ball referee and run off.
You're supposed to score. You'll be back in the next series.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Do you know how much the fine is? Though I
was curious.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Half million. Really it's five hundred thousand dollars. Wow, if
you rush the field anymore. And so, But the point
is it's not really the money. It's that that place
was packed and rocking. And by the way, a B
two bomber flew over.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Oh that's cool.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
You couldn't hear it. It was so cool, you know
how usually they have a flyovers. Wow, everybody goes crazy.
This thing was almost melodramatic because as cool as it
was when it flew over at the International Anthem, you
couldn't hear it. And I guess that's the point. It's
a B two bomber, stealth bomber. You're not supposed to
be able to hear it. But this massive thing flew
(01:48):
over our our stadium and it was like, just you
didn't hear it. It was so weird looking, but it
was cool. And then we proceeded to beat LSUS like
we're supposed to, and we left and went back to
our cars. No ready to rust field because you know,
it's just TELLUSU.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Actually, I don't think we've talked about it since that
last Shop Talk with Max, that you also beat Max.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Of school just today listeners on that too, that look
that it would have been more appropriate to rushfield and
yanked down the goalpost after that win, that it was
after all, this beat LSU as a big deal. We
beat him eighteen to seven, and.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Anytime some inner city kids can beat some wealthy white kids,
I'm all for it me too.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I mean, I listen, it was. It was a turning
point for my team because it was when they woke
up to the realization that they can play with anybody.
And I think that translates to many things well after
the days playing football. So very very proud of that win,
(02:48):
and I enjoyed Max having to go through things Kim
and Christmas understanding that his dad owns him. I own him,
free rent, free rent for an entire year, right there. So, okay, guys,
Shop Talk number seventy two, it's not.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
As fun of a topic as we've been having.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
We're gonna switch emotional gears quickly from football and fun
to something that's really topical. And Alex did his typical,
really deep and good production work.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
It's not that deep. I wish I had more time
because there's so much better. There's even more stats out
there than we're about to get into.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Well, it's just pretty good. We're going to talk about
violence and assassination culture, which I can't even believe is
actually a phrase, that there's an assassination culture. I don't
even think ten years ago that would have been a thing,
but it has become a thing, and so this is
coming out Friday. We can also, you know, not only
(03:54):
be reminded of the Charlie Kirk thing, but even this
past Sunday, some dude ran a truck into a a
Mormon church and sett it on fire and shot a
bunch of people. It's happening all too often, and I
think we all know what's happening all too often, but
some of the data behind it is even I'm not
(04:15):
going to say more disturbing than the act itself, because
nothing is more disturbing than the acts itself, but it's
it's almost as disturbing, and.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I think, may I think you could say it is
more disconcerting because this isn't just someone crazy person like these, No, it's.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
A thing now and we need to talk about it,
We need to talk about children about it. So after
this brief messages from our general sponsors, we're going to
talk about violence and assassination culture and some of the
data behind it on Shop Talk number seventy two. We'll
(04:51):
be right back. All right, everybody, welcome the shop pretty
deep content here, but I think it's I think you'd
(05:14):
be wrong not to talk about it. It's topical, and
it's uh, it speaks to an army and normal folks grandedly,
and this is shop talk. That's what people sit around
the coffee maker talking about. And I don't think I've
spent a day at work that somebody hasn't talked about
(05:35):
this topic in some way. So violence and assassination culture,
which is disturbing that it's that's even a title today,
but it is. Alex got us this information a recent
fire survey. What's fire and acronym for.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Fire is the Foundation for Original Individual Rights and Education.
I think they've rebranded it now, so the the leading
free speech group in the country. You were actually on
their podcast like two years.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Ago, perfect remember it? Well maybe not.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
They're actually awesome and you'd love them. They so it's
kind of the real replacement of the ACLU, like the ah.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Listen, no, now that you said it, I do love
them because they're not right left center whatever. They're standing
for free speech that is unencumbered.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
It's actually cool. They are two founders, ones from the
left and ones from the right. But even more impressive
is their staff is pretty much evenly split. So that's
really hard to do if you have like a you know,
fifty one hundred person company. That's a little bit ideological.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I mean yeah, but if our culture is about civility
and respecting what one another says, I mean yeah, let's
just go to it. So a recent fire survey from
these folks were talking about twenty twenty five, so it's
very recent. They surveyed sixty eight thousand, five hundred and
ten college students across two hundred and fifty seven US universities.
(07:08):
So this isn't like they called twenty people and came
up with this thing. This is a real. Study found
that thirty four percent of college students say that using
violence to stop someone from speaking on campus is acceptable,
at least sometimes rare cases are more thirty a third
(07:36):
of our young adults that are in college, these are
the ones that are supposed to be the smartest, most
freethinking human beings say that using violence to stop someone
from speaking is acceptable in some occasions, and that's up
(07:57):
from thirty two percent the prior year. Two percent is
already ridiculous. One of the most disturbing findings from the
Buckley Institutes twenty twenty five National College Student Survey is
this thirty nine percent. That's two out of five. Thirty
nine percent of students agree with this statement. If someone
(08:19):
is using hate speech or making racially charged comments, physical
violence can be justified to prevent this person from espousing
their hateful views. Do not misunderstand me that I think
using hate speech or racially charged comments is okay. I
(08:40):
do not. But I also believe that using physical violence
to prevent a person from respising their hateful views, I
think that's more wrong than the hate speech itself. And
i'll tell you in a minute. Along with this is
(09:02):
a graph that I wish I could share with you visually,
but I'll try to. I'll try to do my best
to illustrate it for you verbally. The first figure is
percent of respondents overall and those that self identify as
left and right of center who find murder of the
(09:25):
respective individuals justified murder.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
At least, I think the phrase is at least partially justified.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Okay, partially justified. The barographs here show the percentage of
people in each group selecting scores from two to seven
on the scales assessing support for murder of Musk and Trump.
Scores of one were excluded because such scores meant that
the respondent con considered the respective form of political violence
(09:56):
was not justified at all. I'll respond that said murder
was okay thirty one point something percent, thirty one percent.
A third, So.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
It's adults too, not just the college kids.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
A third of all college students say.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Those adults, now okay. A third make it your worse.
You can't just dismiss it as some dumb college kids.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Sure, adults A third said that it would be okay
to murder Elon Musk because of what he says. The
people right of center were fourteen point three percent and
the people left were fifty. With regard to murder of
Donald Trump, thirty eight point five percent said it would
(10:46):
be okay, fifty six percent on the left and twenty
percent on the right.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
We should say the two. This is from Rutgers University.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
I don't care.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I'm just sitting just letting the listeners know where and
I'm making up these numbers.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Uh, destroying a Tesla dealership and protest. Forty percent of
our respondents said, yeah, there's no problem with that. Sixty
percent of the people left of center said it's okay
to destroy a man's business if you don't agree with
what he has to say. Twenty three percent right of
center said it's okay, okay, So why are we bringing
(11:26):
this up first? It is not to vilify anybody left
of center, right or center. These are just numbers. Don't
shoot the messenger. It's just the facts that this is.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
The numbers are unacceptable, none of them are acceptable.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
And here's the thing. These are self identifying people. So
someone is saying, yes, I'm right of center, Yes I'm
left to center, Yes, murder's okay to shut somebody up
I don't agree with. I grew up believing in the phrase,
(11:59):
the very very very uniquely American phrase that says, I
made a test and a bore and patently disagree with
everything that comes out of your mouth, but I will
defend with my life your right to say it, How
have we gone in three or four decades from that
(12:24):
to this. I want to remind you of a time
that John McCain and President Obama were running for the
presidency and at a what do they call those things
where a candidate meets with a big, old open group
(12:47):
of people in take town hall. Yeah, it was a
town hall. John McCain was having a town hall meeting.
And I remember it's like as yesterday. You should look
up the video. A woman said something about Obama being
a Muslim, Obama not even being an American, Obama being
anti American, and just went off on him and mc McCain,
(13:13):
Obama's opponent in the presidential election, stopped the woman deadnist
attracts and said stop it. I don't agree with a
lot of Obama's policies. Obviously I'm running against him for
president because I don't believe he's what's best for our country.
But he is a good man, and he is an American,
and I don't want to get involved in trafficking mistruths
(13:38):
about this man. We're running on the issues, and we're
running on belief sets. We're not running against this human being.
We have gone from leadership like that. John McCain lost
the election, as we all know. But we went from
leadership like that who refused to allow people to get
(13:59):
off all exercised and been up on language, to now
in some cases, is sixty percent of respondents believe that
it's okay to murder Donald Trump if you don't like
what comes out of his mouth. We are losing our civility.
(14:21):
We are losing our understanding of free speech. We are
losing our basic civic understanding about what makes the American
society unique and special. And if we don't correct this,
(14:44):
I believe this is a greater threat to our freedom
and our democracy than China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, and
every other dictator in the world combined. This is a
greater tack on us than even a nuclear warhead, in
my opinion, because we are going to destroy ourselves from
(15:07):
the inside out. If we start allowing people to believe
that violence, assassination, and murder of someone I don't agree
with is acceptable, we'll be right back. This is medieval
(15:33):
stuff here, y'all.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
As Lincoln said, a house divided amongst itself cannotstand.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
House divided amongst itself cannotstand, which is actually from the
bible of it. So my question is those listening to me,
whether you're right of center or left or center, what
do you really think? What do you really think? I
remember social listen Charlie Kirk, and we might as well
(16:02):
talk about Charlie Kirk a little bit. Charlie Kirk. There's
absolutely no arguing his effect. I would even say that
maybe Trump doesn't get elected without Charlie Kirk. But certainly
Charlie Kirk was a big part of it. It was
one of the greatest swings of young voters from left
(16:25):
to right in known or recorded history, and Charlie Kirk
was on the front lines of that. But the fact
that thirty percent of people in our country say, yeah,
it's okay to assassinate somebody like that, that I don't
agree with because what he says is just so off
(16:47):
putting to me. I would just rather be dead than
to have to listen to it. Really, And then the
mountain of social media posts that followed directly that actually
celebrated his assassination in front of his children. If anybody
(17:10):
watched the video of that grotesque, horrific thing that happened
and then remembered that his wife watched it all because
they disagreed with what he had to say. And at
(17:33):
thirty percent of people that respond to these surveys say, yeah,
violence and assassination, It's okay if I don't agree with
what you say. Y'all were losing our republic. This has
to stop. So how do you stop it? Well, my answer,
of course, is probably going to be redundant to some
(17:55):
of you regular listeners, and hopefully there's some new listeners here.
But I genuinely believe that when you engage in your
community and you get out of your vacuum, and you
get out of your comfort zone, and you serve and
lead people that don't look like you, vote like you,
(18:18):
worship like you, love like you, espouls the same notions
as you, but you're just on a very human level,
serve and lead and work together to better whatever little
corner of your community and universe that you can do
good work in that work, and that involvement in basic
(18:40):
humanity starts to break down misunderstandings about one another in
barriers and makes you more tolerant of one another, makes
you more understanding of one another, and makes you find
out that just because someone doesn't vote like me, or
look like me, or love like me. They don't have
to be my enemy, and certainly just because they espouse
(19:02):
dasha different notions than me, you know, violence and assassination
against people that don't agree with me, just because they
don't agree with me. The other thing is, especially as
it pertains to college students, when I interviewed Sparky, he
said something that is really really true, and he kind
(19:25):
of called young people to find their truth. And another
way to say that is, and I don't mean it
in a political way, but liberal thought is healthy thought.
And what I mean by that is by being liberal.
That's I don't mean that politically. I simply mean open
(19:49):
minded by being liberal in terms of the way you listen,
by being liberal in terms of the way you approach
other people and actually listen and consider other people's perspectives.
While you still may not agree, you are almost always
(20:10):
going to be able to at least understand where they
come from and why they think the way they do
and see their humanity. That's nothing is one hundred percent.
And there are a small percentage of people on both
sides of any issue that I think are zealous and ridiculous,
but it's a really really small percentage. A far, far
(20:33):
far majority of people, regardless of what side of an
issue they fall on, are typically reasonable, thinking people who
just have different perspectives. But is that different perspective somehow
retard or believing that because of their difference in perspective
(20:55):
that it's okay to target them for murder or violence
or Satin nation. I just don't think that. I don't
think you arrive at such a conclusion if you actually
understand that people with those thought processes and you see
(21:16):
them as human and you understand their perspective. And I
don't think you can do that unless you have a
liberal approach to people who aren't like you, and you
seek to serve, lead, and understand them. And if you
do that, you can create an army of normal folks that,
despite the way you love, look, believe, worship, you can
(21:39):
find common ground and you can break down this disgusting
notion that if I don't think like you now it
is okay to cause you harm. Our country cannot survive it,
and we've got to stop it. And what's scary is
(22:02):
it's not just happening every once in a while. It's
happening all the time. And the reason it's happening all
the time is because of this data that a third
of the people in our country believe. It's okay, it's
not what you got, Alex.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
I'll just add one thing. So I went to UVA
and they often have Jefferson quotes above the buildings that
are great, and so one of them on this topic
is for here. We are not afraid to follow truth
wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so
long as reason is left free to combat it. So
(22:43):
we're not afraid to follow truth, and we're not afraid
to let error be out there as long as we're
free to let reason combat it. We shouldn't be afraid
of opposing views.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
And we need to be open minded enough to reason
in fact that if our view is wrong, to change
it rather than double down just because that's what someone
in New York on TV told us, we're supposed to believe.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Actually, uh, I'm hesitant to bring this up. But an
example of this too is no matter what you personally
think about the topic of gay marriage, like President Obama
and President Biden were against it even in the like
the late two thousands, they were and then they flipped
you know what I mean. But it's uh, well, I
imagine if they were canceled then, right, like people changed
(23:30):
their minds over.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Time, they flip. I think they evolved.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yeah, that's I didn't mean it in all, No.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
No, I know, I'm just I want to make sure
I know that I know how you meant it. That's
why I'm saying it. But they evolved, Yeah, they they
changed because they listened to a different perspective and said,
I think it's okay.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
But previously, like people would have called their position hate speech. Right,
So that's the danger of calling all these things hate
speech too. Is such a good point. People I have
firmly held beliefs. You know, whether you think it's right
or wrong, that doesn't mean you know, it's hateful speech.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
It doesn't mean it's hateful speech. And somehow we're growing
desensitized to this violence because it's happening so much. We're
not talking about schizophrenic people at school shootings anymore. We're
talking about people who the data says believe a third
(24:26):
of us believe it is just okay to kill people
who I don't agree with. That's not a schizophrenic, that's
not a crazy person. Shooting up a school, which is
a whole nother problem. This is people literally saying culturally,
shutting you up with a bullet is just fine. If
(24:49):
I don't like what you have say, that is sick
and it is it is. It is a social cultural
sickness cancer that if we don't reverse soon, I honestly believe,
can kill our republic. And it scares me.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
So join an army in normal folks meet people who
aren't like you, and so Actually, one of our guests
said that I don't think your episode will be out
by then, but she said people are hard to hate
close up.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
That's a really good point. They really are. They are
hard to hate close up. And our leaders need to
chill on the rhetoric. Quit the media, and our political
leaders and even some of our business leaders have got
to chill out on the rhetoric and and quit seeking
(25:47):
to enrich their their themselves and garner more power by
dividing us and candidly, we got to quit being sheep
and following them around and buying into their rhetoric. That
is perturbing our minds, in the minds of our children.
It's got to stop. So a soberings shop talk number
(26:12):
seventy two. We have a pervasive and growing sentiment in
our country that murder, violence, and assassination against people we
don't believe in or we don't like what they have
to say is okay, and every single one of us
(26:33):
have got to make a stand on this and say no,
it's not and start talking about it. It's kind of
like in a family when somebody's done something bad or
wrong or whatever, and kind of the family just brushes
it under the rug and hush USh, let's not talk
about it. Problem never goes away. It festers. This is
(26:55):
an uncomfortable truth about our society that people really don't
want to talk about. But we better because if we
don't start talking about it with our kids, and we
don't start talking about how wrong this is, and we
sweep it on the rug, these numbers will go from
thirty two to thirty four to fifty percent. I mean,
it's already fifty six percent of the people Left of
(27:19):
centers say that murder of Donald Trump in some cases
could be justified because of what he has to say.
It's just wrong. We can't do that. We just got
to stop it. And the only we're going to stop
it or is going to have to talk about it.
We're going to have to get out of our comfort
zones and our vacuums of thought, surround ourselves with people
(27:42):
who are different than us, see them as human, respect, difference,
as opinion, and because, like our guest said, it's hard
to hate people up close. But if we keep separating
to our corners and see believing all this vitry y'all
and all this rhetoric, I fear what's going to happen.
(28:05):
So Shop Talk number seventy two, guys, we've got to
break this culture, this violent acceptance culture, and we've got
to do it with our children and our grandchildren and
fix what over the last fifteen to twenty years we've
ushered in as culturally acceptable. Because it's disgusting and it's
not any last word.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Alex, Nope. We got to wrap it up.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
If you envoy this shop Talk, please share it with
friends them on social If you if you like the show,
what do you Do? You subscribe to the podcast, rate it, review.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
It, sign up to join the army in normal Folks
dot us that's it, and email Shop Talk ideas.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah and guest ideas for an army Normal Folks and
I hope you will think long and hard about the
content of this particular shop talk. We have a beast
on our doorsteps, and we got a slang. Okay, I
shout up talk at number seventy two. Guys, We'll see
you next week.
Hey everybody, it's Bill Courtney. Welcome to shop talk. What's up, Alex,
Welcome in.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
You got a big w this weekend?
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Did we? Did we? Uh? We? Oh your time stamp
on this. It's actually gonna this Friday. Oh okay, all right,
Well yeah we beat LSU. Yeah, beat the Bengals. Send
them back to Baton Rouge where they belong.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Actually, one thing I heard about this weekend, I guess
often like a victory like that, if you beat a
number four team, the students rush the field.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah, well we didn't. I don't.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, you know what because if we get a massive
fine I read No, it's not Blane Kiffin asked them,
not the rush of the field.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
No, becauys, we expect to win now, it's a big deal.
What I was curious about is, you know, if you
it's almost insulting. I get it to the number four
team in the country that everybody's like, okay, yeah, we
beat him, but we're not going to rush field and
dang down the goalpost for LSU. I mean, we're supposed
to beat him now.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's kind of like players are celebrating the end zone.
It's like you're supposed to score.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah, I mean, just hand the ball referee and run off.
You're supposed to score. You'll be back in the next series.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Do you know how much the fine is? Though I
was curious.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Half million. Really it's five hundred thousand dollars. Wow, if
you rush the field anymore. And so, But the point
is it's not really the money. It's that that place
was packed and rocking. And by the way, a B
two bomber flew over.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Oh that's cool.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
You couldn't hear it. It was so cool, you know
how usually they have a flyovers. Wow, everybody goes crazy.
This thing was almost melodramatic because as cool as it
was when it flew over at the International Anthem, you
couldn't hear it. And I guess that's the point. It's
a B two bomber, stealth bomber. You're not supposed to
be able to hear it. But this massive thing flew
(01:48):
over our our stadium and it was like, just you
didn't hear it. It was so weird looking, but it
was cool. And then we proceeded to beat LSUS like
we're supposed to, and we left and went back to
our cars. No ready to rust field because you know,
it's just TELLUSU.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Actually, I don't think we've talked about it since that
last Shop Talk with Max, that you also beat Max.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Of school just today listeners on that too, that look
that it would have been more appropriate to rushfield and
yanked down the goalpost after that win, that it was
after all, this beat LSU as a big deal. We
beat him eighteen to seven, and.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Anytime some inner city kids can beat some wealthy white kids,
I'm all for it me too.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I mean, I listen, it was. It was a turning
point for my team because it was when they woke
up to the realization that they can play with anybody.
And I think that translates to many things well after
the days playing football. So very very proud of that win,
(02:48):
and I enjoyed Max having to go through things Kim
and Christmas understanding that his dad owns him. I own him,
free rent, free rent for an entire year, right there. So, okay, guys,
Shop Talk number seventy two, it's not.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
As fun of a topic as we've been having.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
We're gonna switch emotional gears quickly from football and fun
to something that's really topical. And Alex did his typical,
really deep and good production work.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
It's not that deep. I wish I had more time
because there's so much better. There's even more stats out
there than we're about to get into.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Well, it's just pretty good. We're going to talk about
violence and assassination culture, which I can't even believe is
actually a phrase, that there's an assassination culture. I don't
even think ten years ago that would have been a thing,
but it has become a thing, and so this is
coming out Friday. We can also, you know, not only
(03:54):
be reminded of the Charlie Kirk thing, but even this
past Sunday, some dude ran a truck into a a
Mormon church and sett it on fire and shot a
bunch of people. It's happening all too often, and I
think we all know what's happening all too often, but
some of the data behind it is even I'm not
(04:15):
going to say more disturbing than the act itself, because
nothing is more disturbing than the acts itself, but it's
it's almost as disturbing, and.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I think, may I think you could say it is
more disconcerting because this isn't just someone crazy person like these, No, it's.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
A thing now and we need to talk about it,
We need to talk about children about it. So after
this brief messages from our general sponsors, we're going to
talk about violence and assassination culture and some of the
data behind it on Shop Talk number seventy two. We'll
(04:51):
be right back. All right, everybody, welcome the shop pretty
deep content here, but I think it's I think you'd
(05:14):
be wrong not to talk about it. It's topical, and
it's uh, it speaks to an army and normal folks grandedly,
and this is shop talk. That's what people sit around
the coffee maker talking about. And I don't think I've
spent a day at work that somebody hasn't talked about
(05:35):
this topic in some way. So violence and assassination culture,
which is disturbing that it's that's even a title today,
but it is. Alex got us this information a recent
fire survey. What's fire and acronym for.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Fire is the Foundation for Original Individual Rights and Education.
I think they've rebranded it now, so the the leading
free speech group in the country. You were actually on
their podcast like two years.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Ago, perfect remember it? Well maybe not.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
They're actually awesome and you'd love them. They so it's
kind of the real replacement of the ACLU, like the ah.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Listen, no, now that you said it, I do love
them because they're not right left center whatever. They're standing
for free speech that is unencumbered.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
It's actually cool. They are two founders, ones from the
left and ones from the right. But even more impressive
is their staff is pretty much evenly split. So that's
really hard to do if you have like a you know,
fifty one hundred person company. That's a little bit ideological.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I mean yeah, but if our culture is about civility
and respecting what one another says, I mean yeah, let's
just go to it. So a recent fire survey from
these folks were talking about twenty twenty five, so it's
very recent. They surveyed sixty eight thousand, five hundred and
ten college students across two hundred and fifty seven US universities.
(07:08):
So this isn't like they called twenty people and came
up with this thing. This is a real. Study found
that thirty four percent of college students say that using
violence to stop someone from speaking on campus is acceptable,
at least sometimes rare cases are more thirty a third
(07:36):
of our young adults that are in college, these are
the ones that are supposed to be the smartest, most
freethinking human beings say that using violence to stop someone
from speaking is acceptable in some occasions, and that's up
(07:57):
from thirty two percent the prior year. Two percent is
already ridiculous. One of the most disturbing findings from the
Buckley Institutes twenty twenty five National College Student Survey is
this thirty nine percent. That's two out of five. Thirty
nine percent of students agree with this statement. If someone
(08:19):
is using hate speech or making racially charged comments, physical
violence can be justified to prevent this person from espousing
their hateful views. Do not misunderstand me that I think
using hate speech or racially charged comments is okay. I
(08:40):
do not. But I also believe that using physical violence
to prevent a person from respising their hateful views, I
think that's more wrong than the hate speech itself. And
i'll tell you in a minute. Along with this is
(09:02):
a graph that I wish I could share with you visually,
but I'll try to. I'll try to do my best
to illustrate it for you verbally. The first figure is
percent of respondents overall and those that self identify as
left and right of center who find murder of the
(09:25):
respective individuals justified murder.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
At least, I think the phrase is at least partially justified.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Okay, partially justified. The barographs here show the percentage of
people in each group selecting scores from two to seven
on the scales assessing support for murder of Musk and Trump.
Scores of one were excluded because such scores meant that
the respondent con considered the respective form of political violence
(09:56):
was not justified at all. I'll respond that said murder
was okay thirty one point something percent, thirty one percent.
A third, So.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
It's adults too, not just the college kids.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
A third of all college students say.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Those adults, now okay. A third make it your worse.
You can't just dismiss it as some dumb college kids.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Sure, adults A third said that it would be okay
to murder Elon Musk because of what he says. The
people right of center were fourteen point three percent and
the people left were fifty. With regard to murder of
Donald Trump, thirty eight point five percent said it would
(10:46):
be okay, fifty six percent on the left and twenty
percent on the right.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
We should say the two. This is from Rutgers University.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
I don't care.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I'm just sitting just letting the listeners know where and
I'm making up these numbers.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Uh, destroying a Tesla dealership and protest. Forty percent of
our respondents said, yeah, there's no problem with that. Sixty
percent of the people left of center said it's okay
to destroy a man's business if you don't agree with
what he has to say. Twenty three percent right of
center said it's okay, okay, So why are we bringing
(11:26):
this up first? It is not to vilify anybody left
of center, right or center. These are just numbers. Don't
shoot the messenger. It's just the facts that this is.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
The numbers are unacceptable, none of them are acceptable.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
And here's the thing. These are self identifying people. So
someone is saying, yes, I'm right of center, Yes I'm
left to center, Yes, murder's okay to shut somebody up
I don't agree with. I grew up believing in the phrase,
(11:59):
the very very very uniquely American phrase that says, I
made a test and a bore and patently disagree with
everything that comes out of your mouth, but I will
defend with my life your right to say it, How
have we gone in three or four decades from that
(12:24):
to this. I want to remind you of a time
that John McCain and President Obama were running for the
presidency and at a what do they call those things
where a candidate meets with a big, old open group
(12:47):
of people in take town hall. Yeah, it was a
town hall. John McCain was having a town hall meeting.
And I remember it's like as yesterday. You should look
up the video. A woman said something about Obama being
a Muslim, Obama not even being an American, Obama being
anti American, and just went off on him and mc McCain,
(13:13):
Obama's opponent in the presidential election, stopped the woman deadnist
attracts and said stop it. I don't agree with a
lot of Obama's policies. Obviously I'm running against him for
president because I don't believe he's what's best for our country.
But he is a good man, and he is an American,
and I don't want to get involved in trafficking mistruths
(13:38):
about this man. We're running on the issues, and we're
running on belief sets. We're not running against this human being.
We have gone from leadership like that. John McCain lost
the election, as we all know. But we went from
leadership like that who refused to allow people to get
(13:59):
off all exercised and been up on language, to now
in some cases, is sixty percent of respondents believe that
it's okay to murder Donald Trump if you don't like
what comes out of his mouth. We are losing our civility.
(14:21):
We are losing our understanding of free speech. We are
losing our basic civic understanding about what makes the American
society unique and special. And if we don't correct this,
(14:44):
I believe this is a greater threat to our freedom
and our democracy than China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, and
every other dictator in the world combined. This is a
greater tack on us than even a nuclear warhead, in
my opinion, because we are going to destroy ourselves from
(15:07):
the inside out. If we start allowing people to believe
that violence, assassination, and murder of someone I don't agree
with is acceptable, we'll be right back. This is medieval
(15:33):
stuff here, y'all.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
As Lincoln said, a house divided amongst itself cannotstand.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
House divided amongst itself cannotstand, which is actually from the
bible of it. So my question is those listening to me,
whether you're right of center or left or center, what
do you really think? What do you really think? I
remember social listen Charlie Kirk, and we might as well
(16:02):
talk about Charlie Kirk a little bit. Charlie Kirk. There's
absolutely no arguing his effect. I would even say that
maybe Trump doesn't get elected without Charlie Kirk. But certainly
Charlie Kirk was a big part of it. It was
one of the greatest swings of young voters from left
(16:25):
to right in known or recorded history, and Charlie Kirk
was on the front lines of that. But the fact
that thirty percent of people in our country say, yeah,
it's okay to assassinate somebody like that, that I don't
agree with because what he says is just so off
(16:47):
putting to me. I would just rather be dead than
to have to listen to it. Really, And then the
mountain of social media posts that followed directly that actually
celebrated his assassination in front of his children. If anybody
(17:10):
watched the video of that grotesque, horrific thing that happened
and then remembered that his wife watched it all because
they disagreed with what he had to say. And at
(17:33):
thirty percent of people that respond to these surveys say, yeah,
violence and assassination, It's okay if I don't agree with
what you say. Y'all were losing our republic. This has
to stop. So how do you stop it? Well, my answer,
of course, is probably going to be redundant to some
(17:55):
of you regular listeners, and hopefully there's some new listeners here.
But I genuinely believe that when you engage in your
community and you get out of your vacuum, and you
get out of your comfort zone, and you serve and
lead people that don't look like you, vote like you,
(18:18):
worship like you, love like you, espouls the same notions
as you, but you're just on a very human level,
serve and lead and work together to better whatever little
corner of your community and universe that you can do
good work in that work, and that involvement in basic
(18:40):
humanity starts to break down misunderstandings about one another in
barriers and makes you more tolerant of one another, makes
you more understanding of one another, and makes you find
out that just because someone doesn't vote like me, or
look like me, or love like me. They don't have
to be my enemy, and certainly just because they espouse
(19:02):
dasha different notions than me, you know, violence and assassination
against people that don't agree with me, just because they
don't agree with me. The other thing is, especially as
it pertains to college students, when I interviewed Sparky, he
said something that is really really true, and he kind
(19:25):
of called young people to find their truth. And another
way to say that is, and I don't mean it
in a political way, but liberal thought is healthy thought.
And what I mean by that is by being liberal.
That's I don't mean that politically. I simply mean open
(19:49):
minded by being liberal in terms of the way you listen,
by being liberal in terms of the way you approach
other people and actually listen and consider other people's perspectives.
While you still may not agree, you are almost always
(20:10):
going to be able to at least understand where they
come from and why they think the way they do
and see their humanity. That's nothing is one hundred percent.
And there are a small percentage of people on both
sides of any issue that I think are zealous and ridiculous,
but it's a really really small percentage. A far, far
(20:33):
far majority of people, regardless of what side of an
issue they fall on, are typically reasonable, thinking people who
just have different perspectives. But is that different perspective somehow
retard or believing that because of their difference in perspective
(20:55):
that it's okay to target them for murder or violence
or Satin nation. I just don't think that. I don't
think you arrive at such a conclusion if you actually
understand that people with those thought processes and you see
(21:16):
them as human and you understand their perspective. And I
don't think you can do that unless you have a
liberal approach to people who aren't like you, and you
seek to serve, lead, and understand them. And if you
do that, you can create an army of normal folks that,
despite the way you love, look, believe, worship, you can
(21:39):
find common ground and you can break down this disgusting
notion that if I don't think like you now it
is okay to cause you harm. Our country cannot survive it,
and we've got to stop it. And what's scary is
(22:02):
it's not just happening every once in a while. It's
happening all the time. And the reason it's happening all
the time is because of this data that a third
of the people in our country believe. It's okay, it's
not what you got, Alex.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
I'll just add one thing. So I went to UVA
and they often have Jefferson quotes above the buildings that
are great, and so one of them on this topic
is for here. We are not afraid to follow truth
wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so
long as reason is left free to combat it. So
(22:43):
we're not afraid to follow truth, and we're not afraid
to let error be out there as long as we're
free to let reason combat it. We shouldn't be afraid
of opposing views.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
And we need to be open minded enough to reason
in fact that if our view is wrong, to change
it rather than double down just because that's what someone
in New York on TV told us, we're supposed to believe.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Actually, uh, I'm hesitant to bring this up. But an
example of this too is no matter what you personally
think about the topic of gay marriage, like President Obama
and President Biden were against it even in the like
the late two thousands, they were and then they flipped
you know what I mean. But it's uh, well, I
imagine if they were canceled then, right, like people changed
(23:30):
their minds over.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Time, they flip. I think they evolved.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yeah, that's I didn't mean it in all, No.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
No, I know, I'm just I want to make sure
I know that I know how you meant it. That's
why I'm saying it. But they evolved, Yeah, they they
changed because they listened to a different perspective and said,
I think it's okay.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
But previously, like people would have called their position hate speech. Right,
So that's the danger of calling all these things hate
speech too. Is such a good point. People I have
firmly held beliefs. You know, whether you think it's right
or wrong, that doesn't mean you know, it's hateful speech.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
It doesn't mean it's hateful speech. And somehow we're growing
desensitized to this violence because it's happening so much. We're
not talking about schizophrenic people at school shootings anymore. We're
talking about people who the data says believe a third
(24:26):
of us believe it is just okay to kill people
who I don't agree with. That's not a schizophrenic, that's
not a crazy person. Shooting up a school, which is
a whole nother problem. This is people literally saying culturally,
shutting you up with a bullet is just fine. If
(24:49):
I don't like what you have say, that is sick
and it is it is. It is a social cultural
sickness cancer that if we don't reverse soon, I honestly believe,
can kill our republic. And it scares me.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
So join an army in normal folks meet people who
aren't like you, and so Actually, one of our guests
said that I don't think your episode will be out
by then, but she said people are hard to hate
close up.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
That's a really good point. They really are. They are
hard to hate close up. And our leaders need to
chill on the rhetoric. Quit the media, and our political
leaders and even some of our business leaders have got
to chill out on the rhetoric and and quit seeking
(25:47):
to enrich their their themselves and garner more power by
dividing us and candidly, we got to quit being sheep
and following them around and buying into their rhetoric. That
is perturbing our minds, in the minds of our children.
It's got to stop. So a soberings shop talk number
(26:12):
seventy two. We have a pervasive and growing sentiment in
our country that murder, violence, and assassination against people we
don't believe in or we don't like what they have
to say is okay, and every single one of us
(26:33):
have got to make a stand on this and say no,
it's not and start talking about it. It's kind of
like in a family when somebody's done something bad or
wrong or whatever, and kind of the family just brushes
it under the rug and hush USh, let's not talk
about it. Problem never goes away. It festers. This is
(26:55):
an uncomfortable truth about our society that people really don't
want to talk about. But we better because if we
don't start talking about it with our kids, and we
don't start talking about how wrong this is, and we
sweep it on the rug, these numbers will go from
thirty two to thirty four to fifty percent. I mean,
it's already fifty six percent of the people Left of
(27:19):
centers say that murder of Donald Trump in some cases
could be justified because of what he has to say.
It's just wrong. We can't do that. We just got
to stop it. And the only we're going to stop
it or is going to have to talk about it.
We're going to have to get out of our comfort
zones and our vacuums of thought, surround ourselves with people
(27:42):
who are different than us, see them as human, respect, difference,
as opinion, and because, like our guest said, it's hard
to hate people up close. But if we keep separating
to our corners and see believing all this vitry y'all
and all this rhetoric, I fear what's going to happen.
(28:05):
So Shop Talk number seventy two, guys, we've got to
break this culture, this violent acceptance culture, and we've got
to do it with our children and our grandchildren and
fix what over the last fifteen to twenty years we've
ushered in as culturally acceptable. Because it's disgusting and it's
not any last word.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Alex, Nope. We got to wrap it up.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
If you envoy this shop Talk, please share it with
friends them on social If you if you like the show,
what do you Do? You subscribe to the podcast, rate it, review.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
It, sign up to join the army in normal Folks
dot us that's it, and email Shop Talk ideas.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah and guest ideas for an army Normal Folks and
I hope you will think long and hard about the
content of this particular shop talk. We have a beast
on our doorsteps, and we got a slang. Okay, I
shout up talk at number seventy two. Guys, We'll see
you next week.
Host
Bill Courtney
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