November 12, 2024 • 42 mins
Todd was the producer of Elf, writer of Sully, and is the producer, writer, and director of the upcoming film Bonhoeffer: Pastor. Spy. Assassin. Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a normal pastor who had the courage to stand up to Hitler, rescued Jews, joined a conspiracy to assassinate Hitler, and was ultimately hanged for his defiance.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks.
Can we continue now with part two of our conversation
with Todd KOMERNICKI right after these brief messages from our
generous sponsors. So I need somebody with the guts to
(00:30):
help me out. Somebody's got a wonder a question. You're
allowed to ask about Elf, Sully bon Hoffer, You're allowed
to ask about anything at all, and now we have
two coming. I love it, Thank you. Please do this
because remember you're on a podcast right now, live, and
the people across the country listening to this podcast right
(00:52):
now would love to hear who you are. So state
your name and say your question.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Okay, So my name's Bob Milms and I've known Billy
for some time. I've never known you to be wrong,
except for tonight when you said that Elf was one
of the best Christmas movies. It actually is the best
Christmas movie. So I've had the privilege of coaching your kids.
But the question will be here for you, Todd, and
(01:17):
that is and I'll keep it light.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
So it's an easy question. The answers Germany. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
The question is your favorite Christmas movie.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
And are you have you started the production of ELF
two yet?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Because it is the greatest Christmas movie?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
All right, I'll tell I'll answer that in reverse.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Great question favorite.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
If that's not in production your next project, I'm gonna
I'm gonna flip the order of that question. So Elf
two will never be made.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Boo.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
No, I'm actually happy now, twenty years later, I'm happy.
I wasn't happy when it got shot down. Will did
not have a profoundly joyous experience as everyone else did.
And he felt that it wasn't exactly his brand of humor,
that it was too sort of family and he wanted
(02:11):
to do movies like step Brothers and and you know,
and that's his right, that that's what he wanted to pursue.
So he he turned down a lot of dough to
not put the tights back on, and and and at
the at the time, of course, it was very frustrating.
Elf two the script is fantastic, super funny, but he.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Did put tights back on. He did that stupid ice
skating movie.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Later it maybe wasn't tights in general.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Okay, just those Christmas but hang on, hang on, hang on,
a lot of questions.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
That's Okay, where's anybody going passing out? The donuts I brought?
Everybody gets a donut anyway, the script was was beautiful,
but in retrospect, I'm really happy. It's very rare that
one thing, one movie exists as a franchise. I'm thrilled.
My favorite Christmas movie is my favorite movie of all time,
(03:04):
and that's It's a Wonderful Life.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
I love it. That's great, Navy, great name. State your
name and your question for us, Martin McDonald, glad to
have you with us half about your story of faith.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Oh jeez, this is a that's a tear jerker. Can
we circle back to that one? Mark? See if we
can get through the lighter stuff? Anybody else have elf questions?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Oldy, why don't we Why don't we end the questions
with that one? I think in this particular episode, that
would be a great way to end it. Thank you,
thanks for the question. We'll get the answer. Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Hey, my name is Dylan.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
I've always been interested in the moral and maybe theological
tension between being a follower of Christ and being involved
in an assassination plot. I'm curious how did that affect
your writing process and what can the church learn from
that today.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
That's a great question for everybody. We didn't cover that.
But he was not part of the Valkyrie plot, but
he was supportive of it.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
No, No, Valkyrie was a totally separate.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
It was a different plot totally, but it was an
assassination plot.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
You're yes, You're you're correct to conflate because he was
accused of being part of the Valkyrie plot, but that
wasn't the plot. He was the Geersdorf plot. It's a
different plot.
Speaker 6 (04:18):
But he.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
So the question is, which I think is a great question,
is how do we juxtapose a man of faith and
a pastor and all these wonderful things said, but the
fact that he was also an assassin.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah. The thing that happened for Dietrich is that he
had poured his heart and life into speaking and engaging
and believing that what he was saying from the pulpit
was going to change the world, and he believed it
by the by the power of the God that was
motivating him. But things got worse and worse and worse,
and people were getting arrested, and people he loved were
(04:53):
getting arrested, and then he got arrested, and the world
is closing, closing, closing, And at that point he was
shown footage which is just teased in the trailer, but
the first footage of the camps. They didn't know what
was happening. They knew the Jewish people were being taken away,
but they didn't know what was really happening. And the
ab there was the FBI of Germany, and they didn't
(05:18):
like Hitler. The Gestapo was they were his strong men,
but the ad there was still in a way operating independently,
and the abver went into the camps and secretly filmed
what was happening. And so because of that, Dietrich saw
things that no one had seen in the history of
the world. And that was the thing that pushed him
over and he wrestled with it. His best friend, Bethka
(05:41):
was a passifist, just like Dietrich had been his whole life,
and they had that fundamental discussion which was, you know,
will God forgive us if we do this, and Dietrich saying, well,
God forgive us if we don't.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Phenomenal great question. Yes, sir, My.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Name is Charlie McCay.
Speaker 7 (06:00):
I was wondering what the genesis behind this film was, like,
what gave you the idea to put together.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
I got a call from a producer saying that a
Bonhoffer movie was going to get made and they had
a director and they had ten million dollars and they
were ready to go, and they wanted a Hollywood writer polish.
And when I read it and consider rewriting it, and
I said.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I hang on for everybody outside of the world, polish
means there's a treatment, there's an idea, but they want
a talented guy to make the script polished, cleaned up.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah, like a dialogue. Make sure everybody sounds like they're
you know, interesting, as opposed to stiff. And I read
the script and it was a complete throwaway. They had
to start over. They'd made some colossal mistakes. They had
made Bonhoeffer the second lead care or not the first
(07:01):
of a movie called Bonhoeffer, and they had seven seven
made up characters, including the number one character, who is
completely made up. And I just thought, you know, you
got to tell these folks that are going to invest
in this movie that they're going to lose ten million
dollars because no one's going to come watch this movie.
(07:21):
And plus it's Dedrich Bonhoffer let him tell the story,
have it be from his point of view, and make
sure you have this, this, this, this and this. And
I just said like five things off the top of
my head. And he said, would you come and tell
the financiers what you said to me? And I said no.
I said, I'm standing in the rain on fourteenth Street
and I'm not gonna you heard what I said. You
(07:44):
write it down and tell him. And then he said
the two words, and I'm gonna let the cat out
of the bag, the two words that if any of
you say to me in the future, I will do
whatever you ask. Now, the words must be side by side.
(08:04):
They couldnot be broken up in a sentence or said
in the morning and said in the evening. They have
to be said right next to each other. And the
words were sushi lunch. That's my kryptonite. Apparently, he said, listen,
come up to their apartment waiting.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
For God Loves Jesus saves something profound. And you went
with sushi lunch.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
I can only speak the truth, okay. But he said
to me, come up to their apartment. They're lovely people,
will have a sushi lunch. The dog here's a whistle.
And I went up and I met the Camporises and
they're the main financiers and lovely people, and the sushi
was fantastic. And I just told them what I'd said
(08:54):
in the rain and they said, great, we'll start all
over again. We'll start from scratch.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
You do it.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
And I said no, And I said, I don't do
independent movies and only do studio movies. I'm busy for
nine months. And to his credit and the reason we're
sitting here is the boldness of Mono Camporus used to
be the CEO of American Standard. These are not movie people.
These are just people that loved bonoffer and wanted to
do a movie. And Mono said, go home, talk to
(09:19):
your wife, tell me how much you need, and when
you can start. That was his negotiation tectic. And I said,
sushi lunch.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yes, sir, Hi, my name is Sullivan.
Speaker 6 (09:37):
Hi, my name is Sullivan.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (09:40):
And yes, my nickname was silly and.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
I hated it. My question is.
Speaker 6 (09:49):
In the movie, will will it kind of be focused
towards the Valkyrie plot as well as kind of Dietrich's
woll and the abware or will that kind of be
interrupted by his time at Tangle prison, so.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
There's no Yeah, he's gone to school, there's no Tangle prison.
The movie takes place during the last week of his
life and he's being driven towards his execution. And what
happened in that week is that the Allied had blown
up so many bridges that they couldn't get the prisoners
to where they were supposed to be killed, and he
got this extra week of life, and so in that
(10:26):
week I have him journaling about his entire life, and
so you see intermingled the journey from little boy to
the last moments of his life. That's really the focus.
There is the assassination plot, but it's not the Valkyrie one.
It's one that people have not heard of, so that's interesting.
It's totally fresh. It was the first coat bomb suicide
(10:47):
bomb coat ever invented, and it's quite compelling in the film.
So that's what you'll get.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Great question. Thank you.
Speaker 7 (10:58):
Hi.
Speaker 8 (10:58):
I'm Janie Fletcher, and I know y'all kind of talked
about this like application sorry application about like how we
how to be more like Bonhoeffer in our everyday life.
But there's a quote that came up in my mind
(11:19):
from Frederick Douglas and well, not necessarily a quote, but
a concept about how knowledge is different than experience. Is
there anything that we can do in our everyday life
to where we experience things that Bonheffer was teaching a
little bit more.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
That's a great quote. And absolutely this is what I
was talking about earlier. These moments of Bonheffer bravior are
in front of us every single day. This thing about money,
this is the easiest This is the easiest one to apply.
So we were talking at dinner about the scripture. Love
of money is the root of all evil. It's always
misquoted as money is the root of all evil, which
(11:58):
is not true. Money is lovely. People would like more
of it. Everybody would like more of it. It's not money.
Money is just money. Love of money is the root
of all evil. And really what that means is what
is the first thing you check in with when you're
going to make a decision. You cannot serve with God
and money. You will love the one and hate the other.
(12:18):
So way to be Bonhaffer brave going forward about money
is when you're about to make a decision. It could
be about vacation, it could be about where your kid
goes to school, It could be about a donation, it
could be about where you shop for groceries. If the
first thing you're checking in with is money and everything
else gets pushed aside, you're serving money. If the first
(12:39):
thing you check in with money is money, put that
aside and say, okay, lord, I'm making this decision. I
think it's a smart one, but I'm really just checking
in with money. What do you want me to do?
And he will surprise you with opportunities to do this
service and learn bravery and man, there is nothing we
hang on too tighter than our money. You want to
(13:00):
get in and wrestle with some core issues, talk about
what you do with your money. Thank you, you're welcome.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
We'll be right back. Yes, sir, hi Am Dancel Oconnell.
Speaker 8 (13:36):
Are you able to talk a little bit more about
how your career got started and the journey to where
you are now?
Speaker 1 (13:41):
And is there anything else you wish to accomplish?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Oh? Anything else I wish to accomplish. I have one
more time with my family. I've been away for like
eighteen months. It's too it's too long. I would like
to accomplish that. The start of my journey was I'll
do this as quickly as I can. The framework is,
you know how a mother dog grabs a puppy by
(14:07):
the back of its neck, and that's why they have
the loose skin, and it doesn't hurt, and they can
put them where they're supposed to go. That's the story
of my entire life. So I've gone in the wrong direction.
God has grabbed me by the back of the neck.
Most of the time it's not hurt. A couple of
times it hurt, and he's put me somewhere else. And
it always came back to writing. And I was a
(14:30):
college athlete. I was a baseball player. I had the
answer to Mark's question. We'll circle back to this. But
I had had a disastrous experience at college. It didn't
really I was at college but didn't really attend class
very much. And I was at the end of my
college career and I was a senior and I had nothing,
and I had terrible grades. And my two sisters had
(14:52):
gone to the same college, Wheaton College in Illinois, and
they were done with college. And I just asked, is
there anything that I should do? Is anybody to take
a class from? And they said, whatever she's teaching. Doctor
Jill Bombgardner. So I go meet Jill Bombgardner. She's five
foot nothing and she's sitting behind her desk. You can
barely see her above the desk. And she's got one
class that semester and it's advanced Poetry. It's four hundred
(15:15):
level class for senior writing majors. And she said, if
you take my class, I don't let people audit it.
I will grade you according to how well you do
against these other students. And I said, you can't hurt
my grade point average, and she said you're in. So
(15:35):
the midterm was ten poems, a haikup, a villainel, a sonnet,
free verse. And at the end of the next class,
she handed everybody's papers back except mine, and she said, Todd,
I need you to stay after class. And I can
still remember the feeling and was sitting there and I thought,
(15:56):
is it possible to write poetry so badly that you
get in trouble? Yeah, we got the poetry police. They're
waiting outside. They're gonna take them downtown. So she walks
over to me and she places my papers down a
cover sheet on top of my name and circled ironically
(16:17):
and read was the letter A and she said the
phrase that changed my life, and this was God just
grabbing my neck and putting me over here. And she said,
if you want to, you can be good at this.
And I said I want to. And that's the birth
of a writer right there. Hey.
Speaker 7 (16:43):
Hello, my name is Jonesy Harp and I'm a producer
with a small film company called Strong Women in Film.
We have a small picture coming out next week here
in Memphis called All I Got and then Some. We
did really well with the festivals.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
What's the night plug it?
Speaker 7 (16:57):
It's at Malco Cordell next Thursday night. We have the
whole red carpet. You can meet the producer and the
other stars of the show.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Congratulations, congratulations, Good for you. It's a big achievement.
Speaker 7 (17:10):
But I'm also the archivist for Nate Cutler. He was
General Omar Bradley's photographer and he then went on to
become a prolific Hollywood reporter. Clearly, his story is more
than we can fund with our little independent, but his
story as a Jewish man being at Ordrofe and seeing
(17:31):
what happened there should be told. And I know you
come from a bigger pile in Hollywood, but things have
changed in Hollywood. How do we navigate this difference now
of how movies are made, like Angel is funding different
projects that are based on what I would say is
(17:52):
the good word. How do we navigate that system as
it changes?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Well, to my knowledge, I don't know much about Angel funding.
I know them as a distributor. They were not involved
that they bought our movie, so I don't know anything
about that side. Maybe they are, but I don't know.
Here's the thing, there's no one way to do it.
You have to do it by faith. If this story
breaks your heart and you are called to film, then
prayerfully ask how do I do it? Step by step?
(18:19):
How do I acquire the rights? How do I mostly
find somebody? That is the most important part. Mostly find
someone who can write it well. The script is everything,
and people can sniff out a bad script and they
can snip out a bad story on the screen, even
if you do everything else right. So you need to
invest and find investors that are willing to pay a
(18:39):
writer who's good at the job. That's the main thing.
If you have the script. Good scripts are rare, so
people come towards them, actors, directors, people want to be
near it. But the main thing is to have the
thing that's at the center of everything, which is the script,
be as great as it can be.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Scripts will attract investment director and talent. Investment directors and
talent will run from bad scripts. It's all about the script.
Next question, Pete.
Speaker 9 (19:11):
Hastings with with the German people, we saw people who
were complicit because they turned their turned the turn the
other way. They saw what was going on. They suspected
something was going on, and yet they said I'm not
going to get involved or I'm afraid of what will
happen to me, because they saw the great power of
(19:32):
the German uh of Hitler's Third Right, there were people
who got way involved in the in Hitler's Third Right.
They they they enjoyed the power and they exerted great evil.
And then you have Bonheffer, which is a great story
and I'm so glad you're you're telling it, because well,
(19:53):
we're all part of the army.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
We're either on one side or the other.
Speaker 9 (19:56):
And Bonhffer chose to be on the side where he
lived out the power of the Gospel through the Love,
through through the through the power of the Holy Spirit,
and he changed lives, including those who hated him, and
the arm and the with the with the the guard
who was there right at his death. It's a beautiful story.
I'm so glad you told it. And thank you for
(20:18):
coming to Memphis to be sure your night with us
because we know it's a sacrifice.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Wow, thank you very much, incredibly kind. Three more questions
like that.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
More questions saying how great you are? All right? Three
more questions. Then we're going to ask answer the last question,
and then we're going to break. And yes, this person's
name is Molly.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
I'm Molly.
Speaker 10 (20:41):
You're stealing my thunder. You're stealing my thunder. I'm Mollie.
I'm Bill's second child. Our sister is not here, and
my two brothers are right there, and I'm their older,
more mature, more attractive sibling.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
From flown in from d C and d C to CE.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Can we talk, smack, you're missing sisters.
Speaker 10 (21:01):
Absolutely, She's defenseless.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Okay. So when.
Speaker 10 (21:08):
Undefeated first came out, you know how films go to
film festivals, So Undefeated went to Tribeca, Sundance, south By, Southwest,
et cetera. And at the end of these there's always
a quick Q and A. And I remember one instance,
Dad was up there answering a Q and A and
someone just like this asked who your hero was, and
without any time passing, he immediately said Jesus Christ. And
(21:32):
I remember some of the team was kind of backstage
and they all just dropped their heads, like this idiot.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
And they some of not the football team, some of
the movie teams, the.
Speaker 10 (21:43):
Movie team, not the football team.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
They're like this idiot.
Speaker 10 (21:45):
And my point is, I feel like your world, your
industry is largely secular, and that could be wrong, it
could just be my impression. But how one, how is
it being such an astute sound Christian in that world?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
And two?
Speaker 10 (22:01):
Do you know of any instances where you have been
a disciple to others who are non believers in your world?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Well, hopefully I called it.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
My daughter asked a great question. Yeah, that's why I
got to.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Say, Man, your papa's so smart. I got it from
my mom.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Now I answered my daughter's great question.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Mom, a daughter, what was a question?
Speaker 5 (22:23):
Now?
Speaker 3 (22:26):
The first part is, I don't know any difference because
I became a Christian a twenty two and I became
a professional writer at twenty two, So I don't know
some way that it was before I was a Christian.
I've always been outspoken about my faith. And I've said
this before. It's it's possible that somebody somewhere, a group
(22:46):
of people don't like me or because of my faith.
I don't know, but I'll tell you what. Nobody's the
gatekeeper of my destiny except Jesus Christ. So I am unafraid.
And listen, man, if you went to a new restaurant
and it was your favorite restaurant and it was the
best restaurant you've ever been to, what are you going
to not tell anybody? You tell everybody, any piece of
(23:09):
good news, you tell people. So the gospel actually means
good news. How could I not talk about Jesus all
the time. Actually, in my opinion, there's nothing else to
talk about. And the thing about discipling, you know, I
have two people. They used to be young men, now
(23:31):
they work with me. One started as an intern and
the other started as my assistant. Jonathan Coleman has been
with me for eighteen years, eighteen years, want the same employee,
and Seth Parks has been with me for nine And
as much as I've been able to minister to them,
they minister to me and their family and building a
(23:54):
company with people that are crazy about Jesus is just
an ongoing gift.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
It's beautiful.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Yes, ma'am, Hi, Hi, my name is Sky. My my
question ain't for you ease? What motivates you and to
go to go into a film and why did you
do this story specifically?
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Okay, well it goes back to that getting grabbed by
the back of the neck by the by the mama dog.
This story specifically because it came out of nowhere and
I said no to it, and in fact, after I'd
written it, I said no to directing it. For a
year and three months. I didn't say yes to this
movie until the tenth day of shooting in Belgium, and
(24:47):
that I was standing and two hundred crew members around,
and I was like, wow, we've been shooting this movie
for ten days. I better say yes. So I said, okay, lord, yeah,
I'll direct it. Like that's how out of touch who
I am with my It's just it's in his hands.
And the first question was how did.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
I what motivated you to go into film?
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Oh, to go into film? So again, same exact answer.
I'm writing poetry with this wonderful teacher. One of those
ten poems that I got an a on. She submitted
to a contest. She didn't tell me. I won the contest.
It was my first professional writing payment, fifty bucks for
a poem, and I was like, I'm a professional writer.
(25:31):
And then my buddy had this really iconoclastic buddy who had,
you know, maybe one and a half friends, and I
was two of them. And he only needed two more
hours of an art study to graduate. And he's like,
I'm gonna make a short film. I'm going to direct
a short film. You're gonna write it. And I said,
why am I going to write it? And he said,
you want a poetry writing contest, and you cannot get
(25:54):
farther afield from poetry and screenplay. You're just like, not possible.
But we were crazy young and we made the worst
film of all time. May it never surface, It would
destroy my career, and we made it, and we were
so certain that this Hollywood was calling. We actually watched
a movie together, a Lewis and Martin movie called Hollywood
(26:16):
or Bust, and then we drove across the country and
I never stopped working. Now, that's totally god.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Totally amazing. Thank you, sweetheart, Thank yous. Guys, we'll be
right back. All right, last question, then back to first question.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
And then the dancing, and then we're.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Going to wrap and then the dancing. New York Man,
We're not gonna do that part.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Good evening.
Speaker 11 (26:54):
I'm Nisha Powers. I'm here with my husband and we
brought our son, ten year old Lucas and Todd. Welcome
to Memphis.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Thank you very much, Thank you so much. Oh first
thing I did was go get Grizzlies Gear. I love
the Grizzlies. Go griz.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Actually, actually you actually reached out to Alex before you
got here, said we got to go get Grizzly Gear.
Alex is the show's producer, Alex Cortez. A Hey, Alex,
I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 11 (27:29):
No, that was great, Go grizz We're a season ticket
holders and my kid loves that too. So so one
of the things that has happened in my life is
that since Lucas came that my walk with Jesus was
kind of a forced thing, like I had to get
it right, and so that intimacy has really grown. And
what I've noticed during that time is, uh that every
(27:51):
time that I try to do something good like that,
that satan is always working. So the flip side of
Jesus is that there is this other. You know, somebody
talked about armies. There are two armies, and so I
since that at times, and so I try to teach
Lucas about that and to be aware that when he's
on a path, to be able to recognize those things.
(28:13):
So did you see things like that happen during your
journey making this amazing film and such a testimony in
itself that you had to work against.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
I'm a firm answer. Oh, I don't have any problem.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Man, I know you don't have any problem.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
No, I don't because I'm a firm there. All the
questions have been great. I'm a firm believer and not
given the devil too much. Do I know he's weak.
I know we've already won. We're children of the Resurrection.
Nothing can take that away. And the tomb is empty
and he's out of luck. Claiming that over him is
(28:55):
not an uncommon thing in my life. But I don't
see obstacles as coming from the enemy because there are
so many obstacles. There's the I would have had to
be his full time job, because making a movie is
so impossible, and there are so many enemies of a
good movie, and they're everywhere. And it's not it's not darkness.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
It's and it's actually a miracle that any movie.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Or it's any good. I mean that's so there's you know,
there's an aptitude, there's laziness, there's all kinds of things,
and both of those being my own. So there there are,
There is darkness in the world. It's real. Ours is
not a battle against flesh and blood, but of the
unseen forces. I get all that, But fear not. Jesus said,
(29:45):
the world will give you trouble, but I've overcome the world.
We have to lean on the promises because they're unbroken.
And what he says about fear, what do we do
with fear? Of course people get afraid. The answer with
this scripture, there's a scripture that's constantly misquoted. And I
(30:06):
blame the Protestant work ethic. I blame a little bit
what you talked about, like you're trying to to get
closer to Jesus and then and then the enemy is
coming because you're because you're trying this word trying. So
the scripture, the misquoted scripture, I will say to you
and you'll recognize it. Be anxious for nothing, but in
all things, through prayers and petitions, make your quest known
(30:26):
to God, and the peace that passes all understanding will
guard your hearts and minds. In Christ Jesus. Now that's
a great scripture. It's also very hey, chop, chop, be
anxious for nothing? Hey you, what do you? What do
you have an anxiety for? What are you afraid of?
Be anxious for nothing? That's not the scripture. Does anybody
(30:48):
know how that verse actually starts? Look at that a
roomful of believers, and we don't know how it starts.
This is you talk about the enemy. This is real, guys.
The verse is the Lord is at hand, or the
(31:08):
Lord is near. Therefore, be anxious for nothing. It's not
our burden. The Lord is here. He's here, he's here.
He's here. That the power that raised Jesus Christ from
the dead lives in us. Nothing no weapon formed against
us can prosper. We have to claim it and live
(31:29):
it out and realize how tiny and defeated the darkness is,
the devil is. They ain't got nothing on us.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Thank you, thank you. We're going to act answer the
one of the first questions last, and then I'm going
to wrap us. And once again for all the listeners
out there, there's a room of four hundred people here
celebrate Todd this movie. But maybe through the celebration of
(32:07):
the movie, of the story, Bondhoffer and everything else, we
can see a recurring theme, which is what you're going
to talk about now.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
So I was spectacularly saved Mark and my friends. I
had grown up in a house filled with love and faith,
and for whatever reason, on this journey of my life,
when I left home, and this happens to a lot
of young people. I know a lot of young men.
(32:43):
I think I was seventeen when I went to college,
and it's just it's too young to be alone. But
I got to college, and like a curtain made of
cotton wool, my faith disappeared in a couple of days.
(33:05):
And I remember I was reading the Book of Matthew
when it happened, and I'm reading about Jesus doing something,
and I thought to myself, how do we even know
he did that? And then a couple verses later, I'm like, well,
how do we even know he was a real guy?
(33:25):
You know, these are deeply informed thoughts of a teenage boy.
But that opened this trap door under my feet or
under my soul, and I was gone. And I was
so angry that I'd been taught this lie. I loved
(33:50):
my parents. I never acted out against my parents, but
I couldn't believe that they had sold me this bill
of goods. And so I needed to prove how dark
the dark was, because the dark was the only thing
that existed. So I fled from the light. I fled
(34:14):
as long as I could, until you come to the
point where there is nothing else except madness, and I vanished.
I tried to vanish for real, off this earth way
(34:35):
too many times to tell you, I can't believe I'm here.
I have no business being here. Jesus had other plans
for me. He's the one that pulled me back from
the ledge. Three things in specific saved my life. I
(35:03):
wrote on a baseball trip to Florida my suicide note
for my parents and my sisters. And we were traveling
with the baseball team for spring break, and we were
staying on an army base. And as we walked onto
the army base, I saw all these guns, these guns everywhere.
(35:23):
I was like, okay, well, these other attempts didn't work.
This is definitive, this will work. I've never been around
a gun before in my life.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
I was like wow.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
And they most of these guns were not locked up.
So I was like, okay, this is it. So I
wrote the note and it was about two in the morning,
and my roommate Steve Nagel, who I called Jesus with
the crew cut, was stirring across the room. He said,
what are you doing? And I said, oh, I wrote
(35:52):
a letter and I read it to.
Speaker 12 (35:53):
Him and I said, I'm gonna do that tonight.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Thank you, Steve, Thank you, Steve. Steve said, You're gonna
have to get.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
By me first, so I thought, I'll, oh, wait him.
He was already sleeping, and so I waited in my
bed and I watched him and we kind of stared
at each other across the room and uh. And then
actually the person who fell asleep was me. And when
I opened my eyes, Steve was not in his bed.
(36:36):
He was in front of the door with his legs
out like that and his head against the door, sleeping
in the way. He put himself in the way. That
was the first. The second was when I got back
to Wheaton, I called my parents and I read them
(36:59):
the note over the phone, and they're eight hundred miles away,
and my mom said, they're both in heaven now. But
my mom said she didn't remember this conversation. I think
just because it was too intense. My dad remembered every
word of it. And what happened was I said this
(37:24):
the worst thing you can say to a parent, I'm
going to die tonight.
Speaker 13 (37:38):
And they were completely completely calm. They were totally loving,
with no judgment, with no we're going to come and
get you, this is number we're calling on. In one
one they just loved me.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
And I remember my mania because you got to be
when you're when you're want to check out, your mania
is pretty high. And I could just feel it, like
being absorbed into their peace. So that was the second thing.
And then the third thing is about three weeks after that,
(38:21):
I came home to my apartment and I noticed on
the shelf, oddly enough, my childhood Living Bible, and I
got so enraged, and so I took the Bible and
I walked into the front of the apartment and I
stood over a trash. Can you know those green metallic
(38:42):
like army colored trash cans this industrial and H excuse me,
And I held the Bible over the trash can, and
I thought, can you throw away a Bible? I was
really afraid. I was like, I didn't even believe it.
(39:03):
But I was like, I don't think you can throw
a Bible away. I think if I let it go,
it's gonna like fly up and bite me in the neck.
So I couldn't throw the Bible away, and I took
it and I hid it behind all the other books
on my bookshelf. And so every night when I would
come home from school, I would look over at the
bookshelf and I would know it was behind there, and
(39:24):
I would be enraged, and then I would do nothing
about it. And finally I just got so exhausted, and
also that level of depression and that level of hate,
and you know, I'm leaving out a lot of detail,
but just that level of pursuit of darkness is exhausting.
And finally I reached in the back and pulled the
Bible out, and I sat down on the edge of
(39:45):
the bed and I put it on my knees and
I said, to a god I did not believe in.
I said, if I open this book you better be
in there. I did, and he was, and he is.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
I can't tell tell you how many times I hear
everything that comes out of Hollywood is a bunch of crop,
all these shoot them up things, they cuss and everything else.
Why won't they put something out that I can take
my family to the movie theater to see. Well, if
you gripe about it, there's an answer for you. On
(40:35):
November twenty second, Bon Hoffer is coming out about a
phenomenal human being who is a normal person who saved
and changed lives. Who here we are one hundred years
later talking about the reason we have this on our
podcast is because he is exactly what we're looking for
(40:56):
in an army of normal folks, people seeing areas and
need and serving. It is written and produced by the
kind of people that we have to support if we
want this kind of content in our society. Thank you
for being here, Thank you for supporting army and normal folks.
(41:18):
Thank you for supporting Todd. Go see the movie. Join
a movement, and let's take back our culture and their
narrative because as an army of normal folks, we can
change what else is. Thank you for being here tonight,
(41:42):
and thank you for joining us this week. If Todd
or other guests have inspired you in general, or better yet,
to take action by going to see the film in theaters,
reading one of Bonhoeffer's books, trying to serve like Bonhopfer
in your community, or something else entirely, please let me know.
(42:03):
I'd love to hear about it. You can write me
anytime at Bill at normalfolks dot us, and I promise
you I will respond. If you enjoyed this episode, please
share it with friends that I'm social, subscribe to the podcast,
rate it and review it. Join the army at normalfolks
dot us. Consider becoming a premium member. There any and
(42:26):
all of these things that will help us grow an
army of normal folks thanks to our producer, Iron Light Labs.
I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you next week.
Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks.
Can we continue now with part two of our conversation
with Todd KOMERNICKI right after these brief messages from our
generous sponsors. So I need somebody with the guts to
(00:30):
help me out. Somebody's got a wonder a question. You're
allowed to ask about Elf, Sully bon Hoffer, You're allowed
to ask about anything at all, and now we have
two coming. I love it, Thank you. Please do this
because remember you're on a podcast right now, live, and
the people across the country listening to this podcast right
(00:52):
now would love to hear who you are. So state
your name and say your question.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Okay, So my name's Bob Milms and I've known Billy
for some time. I've never known you to be wrong,
except for tonight when you said that Elf was one
of the best Christmas movies. It actually is the best
Christmas movie. So I've had the privilege of coaching your kids.
But the question will be here for you, Todd, and
(01:17):
that is and I'll keep it light.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
So it's an easy question. The answers Germany. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
The question is your favorite Christmas movie.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
And are you have you started the production of ELF
two yet?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Because it is the greatest Christmas movie?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
All right, I'll tell I'll answer that in reverse.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Great question favorite.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
If that's not in production your next project, I'm gonna
I'm gonna flip the order of that question. So Elf
two will never be made.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Boo.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
No, I'm actually happy now, twenty years later, I'm happy.
I wasn't happy when it got shot down. Will did
not have a profoundly joyous experience as everyone else did.
And he felt that it wasn't exactly his brand of humor,
that it was too sort of family and he wanted
(02:11):
to do movies like step Brothers and and you know,
and that's his right, that that's what he wanted to pursue.
So he he turned down a lot of dough to
not put the tights back on, and and and at
the at the time, of course, it was very frustrating.
Elf two the script is fantastic, super funny, but he.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Did put tights back on. He did that stupid ice
skating movie.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Later it maybe wasn't tights in general.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Okay, just those Christmas but hang on, hang on, hang on,
a lot of questions.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
That's Okay, where's anybody going passing out? The donuts I brought?
Everybody gets a donut anyway, the script was was beautiful,
but in retrospect, I'm really happy. It's very rare that
one thing, one movie exists as a franchise. I'm thrilled.
My favorite Christmas movie is my favorite movie of all time,
(03:04):
and that's It's a Wonderful Life.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
I love it. That's great, Navy, great name. State your
name and your question for us, Martin McDonald, glad to
have you with us half about your story of faith.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Oh jeez, this is a that's a tear jerker. Can
we circle back to that one? Mark? See if we
can get through the lighter stuff? Anybody else have elf questions?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Oldy, why don't we Why don't we end the questions
with that one? I think in this particular episode, that
would be a great way to end it. Thank you,
thanks for the question. We'll get the answer. Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Hey, my name is Dylan.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
I've always been interested in the moral and maybe theological
tension between being a follower of Christ and being involved
in an assassination plot. I'm curious how did that affect
your writing process and what can the church learn from
that today.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
That's a great question for everybody. We didn't cover that.
But he was not part of the Valkyrie plot, but
he was supportive of it.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
No, No, Valkyrie was a totally separate.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
It was a different plot totally, but it was an
assassination plot.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
You're yes, You're you're correct to conflate because he was
accused of being part of the Valkyrie plot, but that
wasn't the plot. He was the Geersdorf plot. It's a
different plot.
Speaker 6 (04:18):
But he.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
So the question is, which I think is a great question,
is how do we juxtapose a man of faith and
a pastor and all these wonderful things said, but the
fact that he was also an assassin.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah. The thing that happened for Dietrich is that he
had poured his heart and life into speaking and engaging
and believing that what he was saying from the pulpit
was going to change the world, and he believed it
by the by the power of the God that was
motivating him. But things got worse and worse and worse,
and people were getting arrested, and people he loved were
(04:53):
getting arrested, and then he got arrested, and the world
is closing, closing, closing, And at that point he was
shown footage which is just teased in the trailer, but
the first footage of the camps. They didn't know what
was happening. They knew the Jewish people were being taken away,
but they didn't know what was really happening. And the
ab there was the FBI of Germany, and they didn't
(05:18):
like Hitler. The Gestapo was they were his strong men,
but the ad there was still in a way operating independently,
and the abver went into the camps and secretly filmed
what was happening. And so because of that, Dietrich saw
things that no one had seen in the history of
the world. And that was the thing that pushed him
over and he wrestled with it. His best friend, Bethka
(05:41):
was a passifist, just like Dietrich had been his whole life,
and they had that fundamental discussion which was, you know,
will God forgive us if we do this, and Dietrich saying, well,
God forgive us if we don't.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Phenomenal great question. Yes, sir, My.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Name is Charlie McCay.
Speaker 7 (06:00):
I was wondering what the genesis behind this film was, like,
what gave you the idea to put together.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
I got a call from a producer saying that a
Bonhoffer movie was going to get made and they had
a director and they had ten million dollars and they
were ready to go, and they wanted a Hollywood writer polish.
And when I read it and consider rewriting it, and
I said.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I hang on for everybody outside of the world, polish
means there's a treatment, there's an idea, but they want
a talented guy to make the script polished, cleaned up.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah, like a dialogue. Make sure everybody sounds like they're
you know, interesting, as opposed to stiff. And I read
the script and it was a complete throwaway. They had
to start over. They'd made some colossal mistakes. They had
made Bonhoeffer the second lead care or not the first
(07:01):
of a movie called Bonhoeffer, and they had seven seven
made up characters, including the number one character, who is
completely made up. And I just thought, you know, you
got to tell these folks that are going to invest
in this movie that they're going to lose ten million
dollars because no one's going to come watch this movie.
(07:21):
And plus it's Dedrich Bonhoffer let him tell the story,
have it be from his point of view, and make
sure you have this, this, this, this and this. And
I just said like five things off the top of
my head. And he said, would you come and tell
the financiers what you said to me? And I said no.
I said, I'm standing in the rain on fourteenth Street
and I'm not gonna you heard what I said. You
(07:44):
write it down and tell him. And then he said
the two words, and I'm gonna let the cat out
of the bag, the two words that if any of
you say to me in the future, I will do
whatever you ask. Now, the words must be side by side.
(08:04):
They couldnot be broken up in a sentence or said
in the morning and said in the evening. They have
to be said right next to each other. And the
words were sushi lunch. That's my kryptonite. Apparently, he said, listen,
come up to their apartment waiting.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
For God Loves Jesus saves something profound. And you went
with sushi lunch.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
I can only speak the truth, okay. But he said
to me, come up to their apartment. They're lovely people,
will have a sushi lunch. The dog here's a whistle.
And I went up and I met the Camporises and
they're the main financiers and lovely people, and the sushi
was fantastic. And I just told them what I'd said
(08:54):
in the rain and they said, great, we'll start all
over again. We'll start from scratch.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
You do it.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
And I said no, And I said, I don't do
independent movies and only do studio movies. I'm busy for
nine months. And to his credit and the reason we're
sitting here is the boldness of Mono Camporus used to
be the CEO of American Standard. These are not movie people.
These are just people that loved bonoffer and wanted to
do a movie. And Mono said, go home, talk to
(09:19):
your wife, tell me how much you need, and when
you can start. That was his negotiation tectic. And I said,
sushi lunch.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yes, sir, Hi, my name is Sullivan.
Speaker 6 (09:37):
Hi, my name is Sullivan.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (09:40):
And yes, my nickname was silly and.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
I hated it. My question is.
Speaker 6 (09:49):
In the movie, will will it kind of be focused
towards the Valkyrie plot as well as kind of Dietrich's
woll and the abware or will that kind of be
interrupted by his time at Tangle prison, so.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
There's no Yeah, he's gone to school, there's no Tangle prison.
The movie takes place during the last week of his
life and he's being driven towards his execution. And what
happened in that week is that the Allied had blown
up so many bridges that they couldn't get the prisoners
to where they were supposed to be killed, and he
got this extra week of life, and so in that
(10:26):
week I have him journaling about his entire life, and
so you see intermingled the journey from little boy to
the last moments of his life. That's really the focus.
There is the assassination plot, but it's not the Valkyrie one.
It's one that people have not heard of, so that's interesting.
It's totally fresh. It was the first coat bomb suicide
(10:47):
bomb coat ever invented, and it's quite compelling in the film.
So that's what you'll get.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Great question. Thank you.
Speaker 7 (10:58):
Hi.
Speaker 8 (10:58):
I'm Janie Fletcher, and I know y'all kind of talked
about this like application sorry application about like how we
how to be more like Bonhoeffer in our everyday life.
But there's a quote that came up in my mind
(11:19):
from Frederick Douglas and well, not necessarily a quote, but
a concept about how knowledge is different than experience. Is
there anything that we can do in our everyday life
to where we experience things that Bonheffer was teaching a
little bit more.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
That's a great quote. And absolutely this is what I
was talking about earlier. These moments of Bonheffer bravior are
in front of us every single day. This thing about money,
this is the easiest This is the easiest one to apply.
So we were talking at dinner about the scripture. Love
of money is the root of all evil. It's always
misquoted as money is the root of all evil, which
(11:58):
is not true. Money is lovely. People would like more
of it. Everybody would like more of it. It's not money.
Money is just money. Love of money is the root
of all evil. And really what that means is what
is the first thing you check in with when you're
going to make a decision. You cannot serve with God
and money. You will love the one and hate the other.
(12:18):
So way to be Bonhaffer brave going forward about money
is when you're about to make a decision. It could
be about vacation, it could be about where your kid
goes to school, It could be about a donation, it
could be about where you shop for groceries. If the
first thing you're checking in with is money and everything
else gets pushed aside, you're serving money. If the first
(12:39):
thing you check in with money is money, put that
aside and say, okay, lord, I'm making this decision. I
think it's a smart one, but I'm really just checking
in with money. What do you want me to do?
And he will surprise you with opportunities to do this
service and learn bravery and man, there is nothing we
hang on too tighter than our money. You want to
(13:00):
get in and wrestle with some core issues, talk about
what you do with your money. Thank you, you're welcome.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
We'll be right back. Yes, sir, hi Am Dancel Oconnell.
Speaker 8 (13:36):
Are you able to talk a little bit more about
how your career got started and the journey to where
you are now?
Speaker 1 (13:41):
And is there anything else you wish to accomplish?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Oh? Anything else I wish to accomplish. I have one
more time with my family. I've been away for like
eighteen months. It's too it's too long. I would like
to accomplish that. The start of my journey was I'll
do this as quickly as I can. The framework is,
you know how a mother dog grabs a puppy by
(14:07):
the back of its neck, and that's why they have
the loose skin, and it doesn't hurt, and they can
put them where they're supposed to go. That's the story
of my entire life. So I've gone in the wrong direction.
God has grabbed me by the back of the neck.
Most of the time it's not hurt. A couple of
times it hurt, and he's put me somewhere else. And
it always came back to writing. And I was a
(14:30):
college athlete. I was a baseball player. I had the
answer to Mark's question. We'll circle back to this. But
I had had a disastrous experience at college. It didn't
really I was at college but didn't really attend class
very much. And I was at the end of my
college career and I was a senior and I had nothing,
and I had terrible grades. And my two sisters had
(14:52):
gone to the same college, Wheaton College in Illinois, and
they were done with college. And I just asked, is
there anything that I should do? Is anybody to take
a class from? And they said, whatever she's teaching. Doctor
Jill Bombgardner. So I go meet Jill Bombgardner. She's five
foot nothing and she's sitting behind her desk. You can
barely see her above the desk. And she's got one
class that semester and it's advanced Poetry. It's four hundred
(15:15):
level class for senior writing majors. And she said, if
you take my class, I don't let people audit it.
I will grade you according to how well you do
against these other students. And I said, you can't hurt
my grade point average, and she said you're in. So
(15:35):
the midterm was ten poems, a haikup, a villainel, a sonnet,
free verse. And at the end of the next class,
she handed everybody's papers back except mine, and she said, Todd,
I need you to stay after class. And I can
still remember the feeling and was sitting there and I thought,
(15:56):
is it possible to write poetry so badly that you
get in trouble? Yeah, we got the poetry police. They're
waiting outside. They're gonna take them downtown. So she walks
over to me and she places my papers down a
cover sheet on top of my name and circled ironically
(16:17):
and read was the letter A and she said the
phrase that changed my life, and this was God just
grabbing my neck and putting me over here. And she said,
if you want to, you can be good at this.
And I said I want to. And that's the birth
of a writer right there. Hey.
Speaker 7 (16:43):
Hello, my name is Jonesy Harp and I'm a producer
with a small film company called Strong Women in Film.
We have a small picture coming out next week here
in Memphis called All I Got and then Some. We
did really well with the festivals.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
What's the night plug it?
Speaker 7 (16:57):
It's at Malco Cordell next Thursday night. We have the
whole red carpet. You can meet the producer and the
other stars of the show.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Congratulations, congratulations, Good for you. It's a big achievement.
Speaker 7 (17:10):
But I'm also the archivist for Nate Cutler. He was
General Omar Bradley's photographer and he then went on to
become a prolific Hollywood reporter. Clearly, his story is more
than we can fund with our little independent, but his
story as a Jewish man being at Ordrofe and seeing
(17:31):
what happened there should be told. And I know you
come from a bigger pile in Hollywood, but things have
changed in Hollywood. How do we navigate this difference now
of how movies are made, like Angel is funding different
projects that are based on what I would say is
(17:52):
the good word. How do we navigate that system as
it changes?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Well, to my knowledge, I don't know much about Angel funding.
I know them as a distributor. They were not involved
that they bought our movie, so I don't know anything
about that side. Maybe they are, but I don't know.
Here's the thing, there's no one way to do it.
You have to do it by faith. If this story
breaks your heart and you are called to film, then
prayerfully ask how do I do it? Step by step?
(18:19):
How do I acquire the rights? How do I mostly
find somebody? That is the most important part. Mostly find
someone who can write it well. The script is everything,
and people can sniff out a bad script and they
can snip out a bad story on the screen, even
if you do everything else right. So you need to
invest and find investors that are willing to pay a
(18:39):
writer who's good at the job. That's the main thing.
If you have the script. Good scripts are rare, so
people come towards them, actors, directors, people want to be
near it. But the main thing is to have the
thing that's at the center of everything, which is the script,
be as great as it can be.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Scripts will attract investment director and talent. Investment directors and
talent will run from bad scripts. It's all about the script.
Next question, Pete.
Speaker 9 (19:11):
Hastings with with the German people, we saw people who
were complicit because they turned their turned the turn the
other way. They saw what was going on. They suspected
something was going on, and yet they said I'm not
going to get involved or I'm afraid of what will
happen to me, because they saw the great power of
(19:32):
the German uh of Hitler's Third Right, there were people
who got way involved in the in Hitler's Third Right.
They they they enjoyed the power and they exerted great evil.
And then you have Bonheffer, which is a great story
and I'm so glad you're you're telling it, because well,
(19:53):
we're all part of the army.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
We're either on one side or the other.
Speaker 9 (19:56):
And Bonhffer chose to be on the side where he
lived out the power of the Gospel through the Love,
through through the through the power of the Holy Spirit,
and he changed lives, including those who hated him, and
the arm and the with the with the the guard
who was there right at his death. It's a beautiful story.
I'm so glad you told it. And thank you for
(20:18):
coming to Memphis to be sure your night with us
because we know it's a sacrifice.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Wow, thank you very much, incredibly kind. Three more questions
like that.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
More questions saying how great you are? All right? Three
more questions. Then we're going to ask answer the last question,
and then we're going to break. And yes, this person's
name is Molly.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
I'm Molly.
Speaker 10 (20:41):
You're stealing my thunder. You're stealing my thunder. I'm Mollie.
I'm Bill's second child. Our sister is not here, and
my two brothers are right there, and I'm their older,
more mature, more attractive sibling.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
From flown in from d C and d C to CE.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Can we talk, smack, you're missing sisters.
Speaker 10 (21:01):
Absolutely, She's defenseless.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Okay. So when.
Speaker 10 (21:08):
Undefeated first came out, you know how films go to
film festivals, So Undefeated went to Tribeca, Sundance, south By, Southwest,
et cetera. And at the end of these there's always
a quick Q and A. And I remember one instance,
Dad was up there answering a Q and A and
someone just like this asked who your hero was, and
without any time passing, he immediately said Jesus Christ. And
(21:32):
I remember some of the team was kind of backstage
and they all just dropped their heads, like this idiot.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
And they some of not the football team, some of
the movie teams, the.
Speaker 10 (21:43):
Movie team, not the football team.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
They're like this idiot.
Speaker 10 (21:45):
And my point is, I feel like your world, your
industry is largely secular, and that could be wrong, it
could just be my impression. But how one, how is
it being such an astute sound Christian in that world?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
And two?
Speaker 10 (22:01):
Do you know of any instances where you have been
a disciple to others who are non believers in your world?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Well, hopefully I called it.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
My daughter asked a great question. Yeah, that's why I
got to.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Say, Man, your papa's so smart. I got it from
my mom.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Now I answered my daughter's great question.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Mom, a daughter, what was a question?
Speaker 5 (22:23):
Now?
Speaker 3 (22:26):
The first part is, I don't know any difference because
I became a Christian a twenty two and I became
a professional writer at twenty two, So I don't know
some way that it was before I was a Christian.
I've always been outspoken about my faith. And I've said
this before. It's it's possible that somebody somewhere, a group
(22:46):
of people don't like me or because of my faith.
I don't know, but I'll tell you what. Nobody's the
gatekeeper of my destiny except Jesus Christ. So I am unafraid.
And listen, man, if you went to a new restaurant
and it was your favorite restaurant and it was the
best restaurant you've ever been to, what are you going
to not tell anybody? You tell everybody, any piece of
(23:09):
good news, you tell people. So the gospel actually means
good news. How could I not talk about Jesus all
the time. Actually, in my opinion, there's nothing else to
talk about. And the thing about discipling, you know, I
have two people. They used to be young men, now
(23:31):
they work with me. One started as an intern and
the other started as my assistant. Jonathan Coleman has been
with me for eighteen years, eighteen years, want the same employee,
and Seth Parks has been with me for nine And
as much as I've been able to minister to them,
they minister to me and their family and building a
(23:54):
company with people that are crazy about Jesus is just
an ongoing gift.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
It's beautiful.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Yes, ma'am, Hi, Hi, my name is Sky. My my
question ain't for you ease? What motivates you and to
go to go into a film and why did you
do this story specifically?
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Okay, well it goes back to that getting grabbed by
the back of the neck by the by the mama dog.
This story specifically because it came out of nowhere and
I said no to it, and in fact, after I'd
written it, I said no to directing it. For a
year and three months. I didn't say yes to this
movie until the tenth day of shooting in Belgium, and
(24:47):
that I was standing and two hundred crew members around,
and I was like, wow, we've been shooting this movie
for ten days. I better say yes. So I said, okay, lord, yeah,
I'll direct it. Like that's how out of touch who
I am with my It's just it's in his hands.
And the first question was how did.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
I what motivated you to go into film?
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Oh, to go into film? So again, same exact answer.
I'm writing poetry with this wonderful teacher. One of those
ten poems that I got an a on. She submitted
to a contest. She didn't tell me. I won the contest.
It was my first professional writing payment, fifty bucks for
a poem, and I was like, I'm a professional writer.
(25:31):
And then my buddy had this really iconoclastic buddy who had,
you know, maybe one and a half friends, and I
was two of them. And he only needed two more
hours of an art study to graduate. And he's like,
I'm gonna make a short film. I'm going to direct
a short film. You're gonna write it. And I said,
why am I going to write it? And he said,
you want a poetry writing contest, and you cannot get
(25:54):
farther afield from poetry and screenplay. You're just like, not possible.
But we were crazy young and we made the worst
film of all time. May it never surface, It would
destroy my career, and we made it, and we were
so certain that this Hollywood was calling. We actually watched
a movie together, a Lewis and Martin movie called Hollywood
(26:16):
or Bust, and then we drove across the country and
I never stopped working. Now, that's totally god.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Totally amazing. Thank you, sweetheart, Thank yous. Guys, we'll be
right back. All right, last question, then back to first question.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
And then the dancing, and then we're.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Going to wrap and then the dancing. New York Man,
We're not gonna do that part.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Good evening.
Speaker 11 (26:54):
I'm Nisha Powers. I'm here with my husband and we
brought our son, ten year old Lucas and Todd. Welcome
to Memphis.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Thank you very much, Thank you so much. Oh first
thing I did was go get Grizzlies Gear. I love
the Grizzlies. Go griz.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Actually, actually you actually reached out to Alex before you
got here, said we got to go get Grizzly Gear.
Alex is the show's producer, Alex Cortez. A Hey, Alex,
I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 11 (27:29):
No, that was great, Go grizz We're a season ticket
holders and my kid loves that too. So so one
of the things that has happened in my life is
that since Lucas came that my walk with Jesus was
kind of a forced thing, like I had to get
it right, and so that intimacy has really grown. And
what I've noticed during that time is, uh that every
(27:51):
time that I try to do something good like that,
that satan is always working. So the flip side of
Jesus is that there is this other. You know, somebody
talked about armies. There are two armies, and so I
since that at times, and so I try to teach
Lucas about that and to be aware that when he's
on a path, to be able to recognize those things.
(28:13):
So did you see things like that happen during your
journey making this amazing film and such a testimony in
itself that you had to work against.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
I'm a firm answer. Oh, I don't have any problem.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Man, I know you don't have any problem.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
No, I don't because I'm a firm there. All the
questions have been great. I'm a firm believer and not
given the devil too much. Do I know he's weak.
I know we've already won. We're children of the Resurrection.
Nothing can take that away. And the tomb is empty
and he's out of luck. Claiming that over him is
(28:55):
not an uncommon thing in my life. But I don't
see obstacles as coming from the enemy because there are
so many obstacles. There's the I would have had to
be his full time job, because making a movie is
so impossible, and there are so many enemies of a
good movie, and they're everywhere. And it's not it's not darkness.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
It's and it's actually a miracle that any movie.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Or it's any good. I mean that's so there's you know,
there's an aptitude, there's laziness, there's all kinds of things,
and both of those being my own. So there there are,
There is darkness in the world. It's real. Ours is
not a battle against flesh and blood, but of the
unseen forces. I get all that, But fear not. Jesus said,
(29:45):
the world will give you trouble, but I've overcome the world.
We have to lean on the promises because they're unbroken.
And what he says about fear, what do we do
with fear? Of course people get afraid. The answer with
this scripture, there's a scripture that's constantly misquoted. And I
(30:06):
blame the Protestant work ethic. I blame a little bit
what you talked about, like you're trying to to get
closer to Jesus and then and then the enemy is
coming because you're because you're trying this word trying. So
the scripture, the misquoted scripture, I will say to you
and you'll recognize it. Be anxious for nothing, but in
all things, through prayers and petitions, make your quest known
(30:26):
to God, and the peace that passes all understanding will
guard your hearts and minds. In Christ Jesus. Now that's
a great scripture. It's also very hey, chop, chop, be
anxious for nothing? Hey you, what do you? What do
you have an anxiety for? What are you afraid of?
Be anxious for nothing? That's not the scripture. Does anybody
(30:48):
know how that verse actually starts? Look at that a
roomful of believers, and we don't know how it starts.
This is you talk about the enemy. This is real, guys.
The verse is the Lord is at hand, or the
(31:08):
Lord is near. Therefore, be anxious for nothing. It's not
our burden. The Lord is here. He's here, he's here.
He's here. That the power that raised Jesus Christ from
the dead lives in us. Nothing no weapon formed against
us can prosper. We have to claim it and live
(31:29):
it out and realize how tiny and defeated the darkness is,
the devil is. They ain't got nothing on us.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Thank you, thank you. We're going to act answer the
one of the first questions last, and then I'm going
to wrap us. And once again for all the listeners
out there, there's a room of four hundred people here
celebrate Todd this movie. But maybe through the celebration of
(32:07):
the movie, of the story, Bondhoffer and everything else, we
can see a recurring theme, which is what you're going
to talk about now.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
So I was spectacularly saved Mark and my friends. I
had grown up in a house filled with love and faith,
and for whatever reason, on this journey of my life,
when I left home, and this happens to a lot
of young people. I know a lot of young men.
(32:43):
I think I was seventeen when I went to college,
and it's just it's too young to be alone. But
I got to college, and like a curtain made of
cotton wool, my faith disappeared in a couple of days.
(33:05):
And I remember I was reading the Book of Matthew
when it happened, and I'm reading about Jesus doing something,
and I thought to myself, how do we even know
he did that? And then a couple verses later, I'm like, well,
how do we even know he was a real guy?
(33:25):
You know, these are deeply informed thoughts of a teenage boy.
But that opened this trap door under my feet or
under my soul, and I was gone. And I was
so angry that I'd been taught this lie. I loved
(33:50):
my parents. I never acted out against my parents, but
I couldn't believe that they had sold me this bill
of goods. And so I needed to prove how dark
the dark was, because the dark was the only thing
that existed. So I fled from the light. I fled
(34:14):
as long as I could, until you come to the
point where there is nothing else except madness, and I vanished.
I tried to vanish for real, off this earth way
(34:35):
too many times to tell you, I can't believe I'm here.
I have no business being here. Jesus had other plans
for me. He's the one that pulled me back from
the ledge. Three things in specific saved my life. I
(35:03):
wrote on a baseball trip to Florida my suicide note
for my parents and my sisters. And we were traveling
with the baseball team for spring break, and we were
staying on an army base. And as we walked onto
the army base, I saw all these guns, these guns everywhere.
(35:23):
I was like, okay, well, these other attempts didn't work.
This is definitive, this will work. I've never been around
a gun before in my life.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
I was like wow.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
And they most of these guns were not locked up.
So I was like, okay, this is it. So I
wrote the note and it was about two in the morning,
and my roommate Steve Nagel, who I called Jesus with
the crew cut, was stirring across the room. He said,
what are you doing? And I said, oh, I wrote
(35:52):
a letter and I read it to.
Speaker 12 (35:53):
Him and I said, I'm gonna do that tonight.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Thank you, Steve, Thank you, Steve. Steve said, You're gonna
have to get.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
By me first, so I thought, I'll, oh, wait him.
He was already sleeping, and so I waited in my
bed and I watched him and we kind of stared
at each other across the room and uh. And then
actually the person who fell asleep was me. And when
I opened my eyes, Steve was not in his bed.
(36:36):
He was in front of the door with his legs
out like that and his head against the door, sleeping
in the way. He put himself in the way. That
was the first. The second was when I got back
to Wheaton, I called my parents and I read them
(36:59):
the note over the phone, and they're eight hundred miles away,
and my mom said, they're both in heaven now. But
my mom said she didn't remember this conversation. I think
just because it was too intense. My dad remembered every
word of it. And what happened was I said this
(37:24):
the worst thing you can say to a parent, I'm
going to die tonight.
Speaker 13 (37:38):
And they were completely completely calm. They were totally loving,
with no judgment, with no we're going to come and
get you, this is number we're calling on. In one
one they just loved me.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
And I remember my mania because you got to be
when you're when you're want to check out, your mania
is pretty high. And I could just feel it, like
being absorbed into their peace. So that was the second thing.
And then the third thing is about three weeks after that,
(38:21):
I came home to my apartment and I noticed on
the shelf, oddly enough, my childhood Living Bible, and I
got so enraged, and so I took the Bible and
I walked into the front of the apartment and I
stood over a trash. Can you know those green metallic
(38:42):
like army colored trash cans this industrial and H excuse me,
And I held the Bible over the trash can, and
I thought, can you throw away a Bible? I was
really afraid. I was like, I didn't even believe it.
(39:03):
But I was like, I don't think you can throw
a Bible away. I think if I let it go,
it's gonna like fly up and bite me in the neck.
So I couldn't throw the Bible away, and I took
it and I hid it behind all the other books
on my bookshelf. And so every night when I would
come home from school, I would look over at the
bookshelf and I would know it was behind there, and
(39:24):
I would be enraged, and then I would do nothing
about it. And finally I just got so exhausted, and
also that level of depression and that level of hate,
and you know, I'm leaving out a lot of detail,
but just that level of pursuit of darkness is exhausting.
And finally I reached in the back and pulled the
Bible out, and I sat down on the edge of
(39:45):
the bed and I put it on my knees and
I said, to a god I did not believe in.
I said, if I open this book you better be
in there. I did, and he was, and he is.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
I can't tell tell you how many times I hear
everything that comes out of Hollywood is a bunch of crop,
all these shoot them up things, they cuss and everything else.
Why won't they put something out that I can take
my family to the movie theater to see. Well, if
you gripe about it, there's an answer for you. On
(40:35):
November twenty second, Bon Hoffer is coming out about a
phenomenal human being who is a normal person who saved
and changed lives. Who here we are one hundred years
later talking about the reason we have this on our
podcast is because he is exactly what we're looking for
(40:56):
in an army of normal folks, people seeing areas and
need and serving. It is written and produced by the
kind of people that we have to support if we
want this kind of content in our society. Thank you
for being here, Thank you for supporting army and normal folks.
(41:18):
Thank you for supporting Todd. Go see the movie. Join
a movement, and let's take back our culture and their
narrative because as an army of normal folks, we can
change what else is. Thank you for being here tonight,
(41:42):
and thank you for joining us this week. If Todd
or other guests have inspired you in general, or better yet,
to take action by going to see the film in theaters,
reading one of Bonhoeffer's books, trying to serve like Bonhopfer
in your community, or something else entirely, please let me know.
(42:03):
I'd love to hear about it. You can write me
anytime at Bill at normalfolks dot us, and I promise
you I will respond. If you enjoyed this episode, please
share it with friends that I'm social, subscribe to the podcast,
rate it and review it. Join the army at normalfolks
dot us. Consider becoming a premium member. There any and
(42:26):
all of these things that will help us grow an
army of normal folks thanks to our producer, Iron Light Labs.
I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you next week.
Host
Bill Courtney
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