July 24, 2025 • 49 mins
Emmy-winning director Paris Barclay is back to talk about directing Glee’s penultimate episode, “2009!”
The highly acclaimed director and producer opens up to Kevin and Jenna about the emotional and technical challenges of shooting 2009, his pick for show MVP, why he thinks the series should have ended with 2009, and a list of easter eggs you might have missed! Plus, his hot take on “The Quarterback,” and a shout-out to the unsung heroes of the show - the editors! And that’s what you really missed! For fun, exclusive content, and behind-the-scenes clips, follow us on Instagram @andthatswhatyoureallymissedpod!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
And that's what you really missed with Jenna and Kevin
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to you, and that's what you really miss podcasts.
It wouldn't be the same if we didn't have this
guest back one more time to wrap it up with us.
He directed two thousand and nine in his very busy schedule,
and he did his research when he came back. So
(00:31):
Paris Barclay's here, and what a treat it is.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh my god, Oh my god. So for those of
you who are listening, Paris's background on zoom right now
is a picture of all of us and are sit
down your rock in the boat outfits from.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yeah classic a classic episode of the Glee and you.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Were just you have greatest hits of classic episode today.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I do just just marvelous work by me. Yeah, and
I did it all myself. That's what's so amazing. I
really didn't need the script or the actors, no, to
make a wonderful episode.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
You don't think Paris is a gaffer, but let me
tell you I can gaff.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I can of them.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, very.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Very hello.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Welcome back, Yeah, welcome back. You have left quite the
impression on the show. We still use your term Auchi's.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I'm an Auchi today because I had a procedure in
my eyes, so I'm not quite as beautiful.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
But oh no, you look great, even better. A busy,
busy man an icon So thank you for taking some
time to come back and see us for a second time.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
When you're an icon you do make time for the
things that matter. That's part of iconograph.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
We're getting a lesson. We need to know this for
our future icon Iconic. Yeah, exactly, it's truly that word.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
You get the idea. We do.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Good to see you. What we want to talk about today, Well,
you were here, so we've gotten to the end of
the series basically.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yes, you haven't posted the last episode.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yea, now correct. And when you were here the first
time you said your favorite episode you did was Wheels,
but your second favorite episode, and you watched it in
preparation for that time. It was two thousand and nine.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
It is true, and it's still true, and we.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Just watched it and it's a wonderful, wonderful episode because
of one, you know, the emotion of it and the
nostalgia of it. But two, technically speaking, you also had
to do quite a bit of crafty work there to
make it fit in seamlessly with a pilot that was
shot on film six years prior.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, but it kind of look I'm right, I'm right
among all of you now if I at that, the
main thing was research. I mean I look back and
I have all these screen grabs from the pilot, all
these things we were trying to match as close as
we could, and how you looked. And I remember we
were doing makeup and hair, and Jenna, you had that
whole hair thing that you had to go through and
(03:23):
that's why you're wearing a cap through. Yeah, all of
the episode. I think you're wearing a little nature.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I had a big blonde, a lot of blonde in
my hair, and so there was like spray pain involved
and hair spray pain at least, and just lots of
things that didn't match.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
So, yes, some.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
People were easy. I mean, Shee was easy, Mercedes was easy.
I think already you were pretty easy. Yeah, you had
to get the clothes and the suspenders back, and.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Because the hairline started receding.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
And remember Rachel and Sue were a little bit more
tricky because they had different hair and she went obviously
went through a whole makeup transition, so we had to
go back to the old look for her, and Kurt
was just impossible.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
It's a full head taller, no, and and.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Just see his face was very different. He evolved, you know,
he really grew up on the Glee and it made
a big difference. So I mean, I think we may
have shot mister Sella Thane with him singing it again,
but we just it just really it was just so different.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
And then mister Sulliphan was so iconic that like, how
do you try to recreate that when it's so different?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
He looks, yeah, so we just have him used the
hair flip that he did, the immortal hair flip from.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Behind, which to be on it makes it even more
iconic because you don't want to taint with the original performance.
And like seeing that the silhouette was I mean, no,
it was beautiful and was really effective.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
And I did some research because you know, I like
to prepare if.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
I'm going to want that's a director prepared.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Really, you really missed. And that episode was the highest
rated of the sixth season, and you know, obviously the
finale came after it, so it's later, so it's going
to lose some viewers. But I think I'm glad that's
that so many people saw that in the sixth series
because it really brought back, you know, the magic of
(05:14):
the show. And if you think about it, I was thinking,
why does this work so well? And I think the
main reason is they wrote it to do what they
used to do sometimes in the early days, which is
make every song have a reason. Every song was either
advancing the story or was part of one of your auditions.
They weren't just let's do you know Gaga, it was
(05:35):
just like, let's do let's make the songs work. And
watching it again, there's like two whole acts where there's
no songs at all.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Towards the end of.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
It, after your auditions, there's just no songs until we'll
watch this his tape and then the end of it.
So I think every song moving things along, even Popular,
which was wonderful. Yeah. I mean, they could have just
had you sing popular, Let's sing popular, but they made
it a scene. They made her having to help him
to become, you know, likable in a party of the
(06:03):
week Club was sort of an awesome use of that song.
So it's just everything fit in. I was trying to
think that I don't think there's a song that was
just there just to be a song. Closest was his
Name is Jesus, the Mercedes number. But but Rachel had
to see that. Rachel had to see that power to
know what she was up against. And so even that
(06:24):
worked in the traditional musical theater way that advances the
story and and and causes her to go into another
area of destruction.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Do you do you? Yeah, it's true? Do you? I
mean you did both types of episodes, you know, you
did the like Diva and things like that where you
had these big musical numbers that didn't necessarily advance story.
Do you prefer to do something like this or.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
So?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
The show was greatest really when it did this, when
it really did, you know, tie the musical number is
to the story. That's what Wheels did in the very beginning.
You know, Dance with Myself was such an iconic thing
because it was it was revealing all about this character
and his relationships with everybody, and it was all wrapped into
a song. And I think that's when the show was
(07:14):
really strong. It was still entertaining, like doing Diva and
doing Dance with Somebody. The Whitney Houston one but it
didn't quite scratch the same I think good galat Itch
as two thousand and nine did. Yeah. Yeah, But I
do have something for you. I have a list. I
have the top six Easter eggs in the episode. Some
(07:37):
of them you mentioned, but some of them you missed.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Okay, all right.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Number six you mentioned, which was Kurt sewing his single
lady's outfit, which was delightful, just a little bit of it.
You'll watch that. Number five was Rachel saying she looks
like an old justin Timberlake. Yes, yes, that was really
inside And for those of you who may not know
just the originally going to play that part or was
(08:02):
was who they had hoped to play that part of
it was wonderful for me say that number four is
Shoes saying a sing office not a bad idea exercise.
I love those things. I really rewarded that those of
us who are watching everything, we got a really good giggle.
Number three and this one could have been higher because
(08:25):
of the shot, but Ken saying I always wanted to
be in the male and with his mournful little face
just slave. Oh.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I also he is so good. More of him over
the entire entirety of the series.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah, yeah, he's actually in the pilot of Doctor Oyssey.
If you watch, there's a couple of lines there towards
the end of it. He appears. It's a long story,
but we just put him in just for chuckles. Number two,
even though it was just there for us and obviously
had nothing to do with the story. Crossing Blaine in
the line of Bean and that conversation he's happy with
(09:05):
the gay not day member of the Warblers is hilarious.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
I really really love it.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yes, and number one and you'll have to go back
because you may have missed. This is after Krosskey and
Puck Bully uh uh Kurt, Yes, thank you. They walk
off and fuck touches him and cross just don't be gay. Yes,
(09:32):
just as they're walking don't be gay. I mean that
was so I don't know if that was an ad
lib or that was in the script. That was my favorite.
It's just it's sort of muttered and you can easily
miss it. Those are the top sixty.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
How did it work with you? You know, fitting in some
of that actual footage from the pilot, some that was
in a director's cut of the pilot, and some of
actually in the pilot. How did that work for you
in terms of making sure everything else looked the same.
And yeah, I don't think we saw around that.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I don't think we used anything from the pilot. I'm
trying to think did we use anything other than the end.
I believe that was the only thing we used, which
was when when Finn appears at the end. That was
actually shot for the pilot, and that was so meticulously done.
I look back at my editor's notes. We went back
and forth exactly when we should come into the song
(10:29):
and how we can segue to Finn's face coming in,
and how many repeats of the intro we had to do.
I think we had to repeat the intro like eight times,
so would time out to be exactly that moment when
we needed to make the cut and Finn needed to
come in. And it still takes my breath away just
to see him after we've been talking about him, and
(10:50):
we saw that little moment when sort of Finn pushes
your wheelchair there and you look up at him and
then to actually see you know this, you know, final
his beautiful face and they're singing the song and he's
singing ironically. You know, some will win and someone will
lose and that song and everybody sings the blues and
suddenly those words take on a different a different message,
(11:13):
and then is it. The movie goes on and on
and on. Yeah, you should know this. Yeah, and the
movie goes on and on and on, which is where
we are today because it does continue. Yes, saga hasn't ended.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
That's right. That's that's why we're so fortunate to have
you who to like helm this because you have such
a familial connection with all of us and the show,
and like your care and like deep respect and thought
about everyone personally and for the show always comes through
in your episodes, and especially something like this, which really,
(11:46):
you know, ties to the origins of the birth of
all this and like to hear you talk about it,
to hear like it's it's it's really meaningful for us
to hear you know how much care you put into it.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
It very much almost did not happen because, as you
may remember, that episode was shot as episode nine in
the season. It wasn't shot is the second to the
last thing we shot, and that was part of just
shuffling around my schedule and I was finishing Sons of
Anarchy at that time. And I was getting ready to
go to England to do The Baster Executioner, which was
(12:19):
Kurt Sutter's next FX show that we did together, and
I was president of the Directors Killed at that time,
and lots of was jumping off there, and so it
sort of just worked in my schedule. Ryan really wanted
me to do that episode, but we had to sort
of jostle it around to get it to be that way,
and it was thought to be the end of the show.
That was going to be the end, but then as
time went on, they thought, let's see what happens into
(12:41):
the future by these people, which is not a choice
I would have made. But I am not one of
the writers.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
You've executive produced a lot of shows, You've forged on
a lot of shows. I feel like to the end
of a series has to always be so difficult about
how you do it? What do you do?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
You know?
Speaker 1 (13:07):
We were talking about this with Yeah, the episode after
two thousand and nine, how there is some flash forward
and things like that, and a lot of shows have
used that device. Yeah, how have you found like, I mean,
even with some of your other shows, but like the
best way to wrap up, you know, characters and stories
that mean a lot to people over you know, extended
periods of time.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Well, I would have left it at two thousand and nine.
I just thought bringing it back to the youth and
the exuberance and the originality of the show, and then
ending you know, within Alive and singing with Rachel and
you know the other people. I think, we don't we
have Santana and they come in and they watch, I
(13:49):
would have just stopped right then. I don't think that
leap four. Now it's become such a cliche. Six feet
under and loss and all these shows have done the
jump in time thing. Even think Station nineteen did it
when we ended Station nineteen. It's you know, now it's
become such a thing. Yeah, and I didn't love you know,
Sue becomes vice president. It's just like it became like
(14:11):
it was almost like, I just want you to remember
this show is truly absurd. When if two thousand and
nine had been the end, it's I just want you
to remember. This show was full of heart and love
and innocence and eventually heartbreak. So to me, that would
have been a better conclusion.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Well, Ian said when he came on the show that
you know, these people. These characters never really should have
succeeded in the way that they did, Like it should
have been more insular where this is where Wigley Club
stops is at the end of high school for most
of these people, right, which is the reality obviously for
(14:51):
our show and purposes. You know that that's wasn't the
way it went. But I think that's interesting that you
say that, because.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah, I do you agree with them. I just think
part of what made it joyful was that they didn't win,
that they lost more than they won. Yeah, because that
felt like life, and you know, as everyone succeeds and
everyone is happy, and now we're at the Harvey Milk School.
To me, I just push away from it. I just
don't feel like I believe it anymore. But that's just
(15:22):
me right now.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Those are very good points. Do you remember having conversations
with Ryan or anybody going into this episode about, you know,
the goal of it, of trying to make it at
the time it was the what they thought was going
to be the finale, and how they wanted to go
back and fit all these storylines into fill in the
gaps of what we didn't see in the pilot, Like
(15:43):
what did you know, I guess you know going into it.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Yeah, I don't remember much. I know we had a
tone meeting to talk about it, and Ryan was very
very much eager to match people, to get people back
to what they were, not only in their fashion and
their hair, but also in their tone. He said, that's
really important. And I didn't really have to do too
much because you guys slipped right back into it.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Most particularly to watch it was so fun to watch.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I think you know you didn't get I think you
gave MVP to everybody, but I think Leah for me
was the MVP. Just she just got back to that pace.
She got back to the brittleness, she got back to
the insecurity. All that stuff was just like an old shoe.
And I think that's why she's such an extraordinary Broadway performer. Yeah,
because she can just pull that all that was there
(16:32):
and bring it right back. But at the same time
she could be that emotional girl who in the end
kills you. If you guys remember that was a really
tough scene to shoot. She was not that was not
smooth with that final scene when she gives that final speech.
It wasn't Leah just give me a final speech. It
took a beat, and she broke a little bit, and
we had to take moments to do it. But what
(16:54):
we cut together I think is awesome. But you know,
she is a human being, she is not acting machine.
And that speech mattered a lot. R Yeah, it came through.
It wasn't quite as easy as Miss Saigon or Black
Dorothy from the.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Whiz, which also wasn't easy because we kept ruining it.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Forever to shoot we did.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
I was laughing from the video village because it just
was so I don't know, you even keep going. It
was such something and that sounds very ian like, but
some of those things, she says it with such a
straight space, and then you look at Mercedes and then
(17:38):
we're just duck out. We're just done.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I couldn't look at anybody. We were all looking down
at get through it. And we started looking at the
at the beginning of it, but we were working her
up because we were breaking and she was really committed
to getting through it.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
And it was just delightful, and she did it everywhere,
even her voice over the room, my space. I mean,
I just thought she was extraordinary in it, truly, truly,
you who also was really good because I just watched this,
I guess two nights ago now April Grace, who is
(18:18):
an incredible I've done like four different shows with her
incredible actor just between the two of them, and just,
oh my god, that scene is so beautifully done and
it's super simple and it's very emotional. I did wonder
why so few people were in the church. I thought,
did we shoot this during COVID? It felt like, remember
during COVID we could only have ten extras COVID extras.
(18:44):
But it seemed very fair. I don't know, I cannot
remember why.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
It was a rehearsal.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Is that what it was?
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I don't know. That's in my head, that's what I
was like, Oh, it must be a rehearsal.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
But everyone was stressed in their church stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
They were it.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Was very budget was waning in that at that point
the same money.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And you know, black people are very expensive, so you
have to you have to, like you any a little
bit ext just to get them there, especially.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
I don't know if anyone.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
You don't know if and I know black people are
expensive and we should be.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah, yes, what else.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I'm curious though, because you've done so many shows at
this point, and you've seen shows to the to the end.
Do you handle as a director of series finale differently
than another.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Episode, Yes, that's the answer. Yeah, No, I mean, and.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I just I just went through with Doctor Ousty. It's
very painful because people don't want to let go, and
they don't want to let go because it was a
great time. And I know you guys feel this. That
was for all the pain we went through in the
making of that show and in the experience of it.
But everything that we went through, and then you get
to the end and you want it to be beautiful
(20:08):
and you want to sort of sum up everything, and
you want people to sort of keep it together and
have that last experience be a good one. You don't
want that last experience to be painful at all. And
so the joy of two thousand and nine when we
did it, even though you had other episodes to do,
is it had a feeling of completion colorin of itself.
(20:28):
You know, it had an arc, and when Finn comes
out in the end, you knew you were there at
how this all began. And I thought it sort of
was so well written that it was hard to up.
I've been on many shows where we get to the
end and it's like, this is kind of bad, and
(20:50):
then you have to be really loving to everyone to say,
you know, we're going to do the best we can
with what we've got, and you really really turn your
attent to the crew too. I always encourage the cast
to really give the crew props at the end because
a lot of times people forget that they've been through
this ride with you too. You guys have been really
(21:11):
good about, you know, really mentioning the crew and bringing
on Andrew and some other people. But yeah, a lot
of people don't know, Hey, you know who you don't
talk enough about speaking of crew and injuries.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
You know, we don't speak about the editors enough.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
And maybe because you didn't really know them.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
No, you're right, we didn't.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I mean Beeker was our editor that we knew very
well who kind of came back onto set. That's the
other thing we got to know very well. But you're right,
we haven't spoken about the editor.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I'm thinking about it if you keep going or you
go another season. I had the editor, Doc Kratzer on
He did Diva Special Education and Lights Out Me and
each one is completely different, completely different and has different
kinds of chops. John Roberts did Dance with Somebody at Home. Ye,
Alex Soskin did both one hundred and two thousand and
(22:03):
nine and one hundred if you remember, has all those
numbers and you know, raise your glass and I had
the weird you know, Britney Spears meets Chicago Toxic Toxics
that we did. If you look at how that edited,
it is crazy great. Yeah, you know, just the hands
were in the glass and all that stuff were, it
(22:26):
is beautiful. So a lot of this, a lot of
credit that you know sometimes goes to the director really
belonged to those editors because they brought me something you know,
that was beyond what I expected. Certainly Doc and John
always did and Alex too. They brought me something that went, wow,
we did that. Yeah, and then I could just sort of,
you know, finasien improve. But so much it was put
(22:47):
together by their by their genius. So something to be
said for that.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, No, definitely, it's amazing that we didn't really have
a relationship with the editors and we get these episodes
back and see them like, oh my god, like you said,
you know, it can make your work, your work look
even better. It absolutely made the actors work. Well, they're
staring at us all day and they know what we're doing.
Oh yeah. They in the show for.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
A while, like Doc was on for several seasons. They
see every other cut that everyone else is doing, and
they kind of know and they know this director, I
have to do this. I mean, they get used to
us too, and they know what we need and Brad,
they know they don't have to worry too much because
they're gonna have tons of material and great.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Yeah. So it's it's it's really an art that if
I had to do it all over again, I think
I'd be very interested in being an editor because I
don't really like people as much as I appear to.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
You're very good with people.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
They're so exhausting, we really are, and you know that
you're hard and you fall in love with them, and
it's really like, oh my god, you just don't want
to be around people at all after a while. Yeah.
So the editors get to stay in that little room
and just in the dark and go back and forth
and make it look cut.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
They know all the secrets, all the secrets, they know
all the outtakes.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
They put them in a bin for outtakes.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Reels who can't remember their lines, who came prepared exactly.
Do you have any other favorite memories from I mean
shooting the show in general, or shooting two thousand and
(24:28):
nine that you think about, and you know, anything that
brings you some sort of joy, Any numbers that you
love watching or that you remember filming or even off.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
I mean the numbers that I love are mostly in Whitney,
the Whitney episode and Diva I just and they are
usually not the story numbers. Oddly enough, the numbers that
just In and of themselves are are the music videos.
But on my playlist on spat if I and you'll
(25:01):
be happy to know this, Kevin. One of the ones that's,
you know, so frequent is your Justin Bieber take and
Somebody to Love that is right in my rotation.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
If you gave me a million dollars to guess what
you were about to say, I would not have them.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
I also love the Rhythmation Musical. I just think it's great.
That's in my sort of cardio playlist because that's great.
But I really think I think the thing that I
most wanted to talk to you guys about is the
quarterback because I disagreed with.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
You please give it to us.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
But I'm not in your position, That's the thing, because
I'm I am so much more objective and part because
I didn't live in the show the way that you
guys did. I mean, you lived in it, and I think,
and you strongly stated that show really felt like your
emotions and you feelings were being thrown on the screen
and in a way that was very unfair. And I
(26:04):
think Ryan kind of capped to it too. It is
really difficult to ask actors to, I guess, even try
to separate the character of Finn from the person of
Corey and just play the loss of Finn without feeling
the loss of Corey. That's a very sophisticated thing to do,
and nobody was ready to be able to do that.
(26:25):
I think, Kevin, you said at one point you could
sort of find yourself dissociating from it, but oddly was
what was really needed, you know, well, to protect yourself. Yeah,
just to protect yourself. But that skill is very, very
advanced and very few people have it, and so what
what they were asking of you was actually more than
(26:47):
I think is possible for you to do. At the
same time, the episode for us who watched it was
devastating and emotional and needed. I mean, for us who
just watched the show all the time, we wanted to
grieve and we wanted to see how the characters dealt
with this really badly. And if you think about it,
(27:11):
they could have done in a million different ways, but
they took a huge swing just to say, let's do
it and really show the rawness of it. I mean
that it wasn't very glee to do it that way,
now you know, it really wasn't. I mean, when I
think of the scene of the family, Kurt comes in
with the boxes saying, here, I want you to separate
(27:31):
these things, and each of the of them talks sort
of about what Finn meant to them and the loss
of him, and how you know, Bert says, I wish
I could have hugged him one more time. That stuff
is very true to people's lives, and even if they
haven't experienced pain like that, the families who have see
it in that and the ones that haven't are experienced
(27:53):
in it through you. So it really ended up being
a huge gift. I was thinking it was a lot
like Hearts and Soul, which was the episode I did
of NYPD Blue where Jimmy Smith's died back in the day,
which was so devastating.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I remember watching that.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Yeah he didn't die, he wasn't dead. Yeah, you know,
he was an actor and it was very sad, but
it wasn't quite as deep as dealing with Corey's loss
and Finn's loss at the same time. But it did
give us space. It gave us space to sort of
play our own tapes of losses. For those that are
older and who have had enormous losses. It brought me
(28:28):
back to losing my brother. I lost my brother in
nineteen seventy six in a car accident, and when an
episode can it's not tragic to regrieve. It's sort of
in a way a gift to healing to feel that again.
And I thought they really it took balls to do
that episode and to do it in that way. It's
(28:48):
a lot of props. But at the same time, I
think it's a hell of a lot to ask of
humans and the people that were your age.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
You.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, yeah, I don't disagree with you, Paris. I think
that in hindsight now, the place I've come to is
I'll never watch it again, but because I lived it.
But I understand the fans loved it so much, and
you're like, why did I love it? It was their place,
it was their funeral right, it was their way to
say goodbye, and they didn't have that like we had
(29:18):
that now on the other end of things. I don't
think Ryan, I don't think Brad. I don't think anybody
who was creating this or making this choice was even
in a place to be making this decision. We had
to make it so fast and set on the fly,
and we hadn't had space to grieve on our own.
Had we done the quarterback the season after, I think
it would have been very different.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Now.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
It would have been painful, yes, but do I think
it would have been so raw. And we hadn't processed
or gone through any of the stages of grief at
that point. So we were going through the stage and
asked for our characters to go through them faster than
we were going through them ourselves, and that was really hard.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
And if you were to do it in a sensitive
way now that we're ten plus years after, you would
have really dealt it with consoling. I mean, you really
would have provided consoling for everybody, to really give them
an opportunity to share before you touched that episode well, and.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Then also to do the memorial on the stage where
we were performing for us as seasons they did Corey's
funeral in the auditorium.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, that's a tough one.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
That was tough for me because we did the funeral
there and then we were asked to come back to
work to grieve him again in character, and it was
like I had already been to this place and done that.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
You know, there was just.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
A lot of mixing where I don't think we were
given the ability to separate it.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Yeah, but those of us who didn't see that, the
behind the scenes thing, you should just know that it
still ended up being hugely significant in our lives because
we needed we needed some closure again. And although it
was much more than I could take at some point,
you know Rachel's song and you know Mercedes, I mean,
(31:04):
that was more than I could take, even Fire and Rain,
which Kevin, you have no way of knowing. But when
that song came out in nineteen seventy, I was a
freshman in high school, believe it or not, that's how
old I am. And you know, we always wondered what
it was about, and James Taylor wouldn't say at that
time what Suzanne was and what it meant, but as
(31:27):
time went on he did. He revealed more about you know,
it talked about his experience in rehab, and it talked
about his loss of Suzanne and her committing suicide. And
you realized that this song was profoundly personal, and so
when you were singing it with that now knowledge, I
just thought, you know, there couldn't really be a better
song for this moment. It's not on the nose, so
(31:49):
not everyone gets it, but if you really dive into
what it's saying, there's so much, you know, everyone gets.
And I always wanted to see you again, you know,
I was hopefully i'd see you once again. Everyone feels that.
But there's so much in that song that's really deeply
resonant in Corey's story, and it was just really super deep.
I did think, though, if the safer way to go
(32:11):
would have been just to do a memorial service, which
is sort of what you guys have done on your podcast,
basically done, you know, in the episode that you did
after where you got all those people from all over
the world talking about how great he was. Ben had
that backstory too, and there could have been a way
to make you know, truly a celebration been you know,
(32:33):
as opposed to dwelling and the pain. You could have
just created a memorial service which different people spoke and
different people saying, and maybe some of those same songs
were sung, but it also emphasized where he brought joy
and how people were lifted up by him, right, which
is sort of the part that kind of was lost
in the quarterback because the pain was so clear intense.
(32:58):
But you guys, I think did it really well honored
him by having people really talk about just the little
ways he changed their lives, you know, the little the
little moments they have with him, sometimes just glancing, sometimes
completely through the television. He just made a huge, huge
impact on so many people.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Yeah, I mean, it.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Would not have been as daring, it would not have
been as emotional maybe, but it might have been. It
might have been better for y'all because when you're in
a memorial, you do emphasize you don't want to dwell
on the horrible things. You want you want to dwell
on the gifts that they gave you. I think, and
that would have been, you know, something that would have
(33:38):
been really Yeah. But maybe they'll redo the whole show.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
And hopefully they don't need a you know, a reason
to have a memorial episodes.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
And this week, you know, and not to get totally down,
but this week losing Malcolm Jamal Warner in the Drownding,
I mean that must have brought back it's stuff for everybody.
I mean, I knew Malcolm. I used to represent him
when I had a music video company, so I met
him when he was on The Cosby Show. And he
is truly the way everyone has described him. You're very
finn like, you know, very giving, very open to everybody,
(34:16):
you know, trying to do his best, easy with the smile.
Everyone in the cast loved him. He's very reminiscent of
Corey and Finn and then he's lost in that way
that's reminiscent of Naya, which sent me into a whole Yeah,
just a whole emotion for like a full day. So
it was just like, you know, just just these there's
(34:40):
so much unfairness of things. Yeah, as I think has
been written before, and I don't know that was just
that was just a down or.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
You know, I think it all goes back to what
you were saying about whether or not. How we felt
filming that these things are an unavoidable part of life,
and the way we experience them before we have to
experience them in real life is through media like this,
whether it's through a song like Fire and Rain, or
whether it's through a TV show or a movie, and
(35:12):
how we learn about these different horrible human experiences in
that way and have these people to look towards as
a guide when these things happened to us and have
a safe place like people might have, you know, during
the quarterback to grieve, but also, like you said, spreading
the joy of like you had these incredible experiences with
(35:36):
all of these people who we've lost in horrible ways,
but we've also got to experience so much joy with them.
And to be able to also live in that and
acknowledge that and remember those memories and tell other people
about the positive ways that they impacted people is also
such a gift because like we're happy to do that
because it's like we get to brag about these people
(35:57):
that we got to spend so much time with. Yeah,
and not everybody, unfortunately, is going to get to have
those experiences, but like we are all living testaments to
you know, their wonderful character.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Yeah. Yeah, and that joy does go on. I mean
it does if you want Nutbush City Limits, if you
just I think everyone here should stop whatever they're doing
and on YouTube and watch Netwish City Limits. Suddenly you
can't help but smile. You can't help but be lifted
(36:28):
by her. And you know, everybody who performed in that
that song is crazy. But at the same time, it's
it's so up, it's so it's so filled with joy.
And to think that that joy can be brought to
you in this five minute or four minute. Yeah, a
little sampling like that shows you the power of that
woman and choreographers and everybody and once again the editors.
(36:51):
But when that all comes together, it lifts you like
you know nothing else. I remember the first time I
saw a teenage dream, I want to go to some
of the joyful thing. Yeah, I think Brad took it.
Did Brad direct that episode? The first episode, Yeah, of
which in which I remember Brad showing it to me. Anyway,
(37:11):
for one reason, you gotta look at this. You got
to see this, guys, he's going to be in your episode.
But I think I did. The second episode, Darren was
in or something and so I watched it and I went,
this is amazing, And once again, it's everything. It's not
just him and the way he performs. It's the way
they're choreographed, it's the way they look, it's it's Chris's
reaction to seeing him, which is so delightful. He doesn't
(37:35):
really quite know what to do with his feelies.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
When all those things line up, when all those different departments,
and there's also that sort of intangible thing, the magic,
the magic of it, and that's you feel that that
could that jumps through the screen, that moves your body.
It's a physical reaction to that.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
It really does. And what what show does that? I mean,
I certainly no show that does that today, And there's
no musical show you know, whatever it was always playlist
or whatever that's been able to accomplish the kind of
emotional and the excitement of the production of some of
these things that has been able to do. It's it
(38:16):
will always be and I don't think it will be replicated,
but it will always be there as sort of this
gold standard of what's possible in musical television. And they say, well,
musicals don't work, and blah blah blah. It said well,
for many years of people were watching Glee and it
was very much a musical. Yeah, it was very much
(38:38):
unabashedly musical and it worked just fine. So stop it,
stop it, stop.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
It go like go put on nut Bush.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Exactly, cut your nut for sea on and go to
the city limits.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
And honestly, that is no better example than Bush. I
love that that was your reference because you're We.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Watched that the rehearsal in that, and we said, oh
my god.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Like you when someone is people always talk about like
the X factor or whatever that thing is that like
stars have even watching it now in the rewatch where
she walks in the beginning of Nutbush like that is
a king, superstar, like whatever is happening there, and I'm
(39:36):
going to sit back and enjoy this. I'll pay a
billion dollars to be front row with whatever this is.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
And then what was the episode you talked about it
before where we had Christian Chen with and she did
a house is not at Home?
Speaker 1 (39:52):
You want to just have Goose about my favorites a
whole number on the show.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
It's it's in a very different way. It's another really
joyful thing. And that was one of the few times
Ryan came to the rehearsal because Ryan was very keen
on how that number should be done, and he had
a vision. It was obviously the famous was it Barbara
streisand recording of OUs Home. It was a duet. I
think it had been done with Barbara Streis in doing
(40:20):
both sides of it, I believe, and that's what it
was based on. But he saw this scene in it,
and as he explained it and as we laid it
out the choreography, we went beat by bete about where
they go and how they moved and where the camera
would be, and it became just so seamless, and the
two of them, their voices sound so great together the
(40:41):
arrange for his classic, and then they moved through the
rooms and they end up in bed in a way
that's really quite original. And that's once again what a
musical can do. And there's a liing between them. You
don't know, does he really want to?
Speaker 1 (40:53):
But not everybody could, not everybody could make the song
that already feels like that, make that feel like that
watching it and your deep understanding and appreciation of music
and like your history with it. I think like when
you watch a great music video and it makes the
song even better. It's like that, like that number whatever
(41:16):
is happening on film, this even element If I just
heard that song, like, oh, this is really good, but
it is how I'm viewing it and experiencing it for
the first time that makes me really really love that song.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Yeah. I think we talked about this before. But the
other one that does that for me is at the Ballet,
which was that in Lights Out could have been lights Out.
It was not in a great episode whatever it was.
It was an episode that was not great, but that
song and all ten minutes of it and the full.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Orchestra You're right it was.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
We had there and Sarah jessin Parker and doing all
three bruises of that long song and the ballet answers.
It just show you know, this is out of control.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Yeah, that's but like, how how lucky was Glee to
have you? Truly and You're gonna sit there and take
it now, but I'm not going to take to this
is how like I'm so glad people can hear Like,
(42:22):
first of all, your recall, your memory for memories, the.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
Amount of shows that you've worked on and yet yeah,
but the the impact of all those examples you gave.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
It isn't just somebody, well, we're gonna shoot this wide
and cover the dance numbers here. It is because you
care about the story so deeply and understand how that
comes through with each song, even if it is just
a big, huge musical number like you're always looking for,
how is this going to impact the person watching it? Yep,
And with you and the editors and everybody on that
(43:00):
set to come together in some of those gigantic numbers
and pulling them off. Doing at the ballet for that
long and not losing people is difficult, but it's because
it is so good and it takes everybody, but you
are a steady stand at the top of it. There.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Well, my gift, if I have any gift, is to conduct.
You know, I can't really play the instruments, and I
can't write the music per se either, and I am
a very good conductory. And that's what I do. I mean,
that's why I really see my job is, you know,
let's make sure the timpany comes in right here. Let's
(43:41):
build this like this. Yeah, let's everyone start and let's go.
And it's because there's really no other drop I can
do well enough that I've ended up being the conductor
slash director because I cannot act or I can't descript
supervising or props or camera or anything. So I ended
(44:02):
up being the conductor and I conducted there I do.
I think it's it's really a skill. And also, guys,
I was doing Sons of an Anarchy at the same time.
I know you know this, Jenna, but we were like
shooting our mothers and killing Russians and Chinese people by
the boat load with great regularity. By the time we
were getting towards the end of both of these shows
(44:23):
because they were kind of parallel, and I needed a break,
and that's what Glee was just for me, and then
eventually for the viewer. It was this great, exhausting I mean,
great way to take you away from your exhausting world
to kind of this this beautiful place. That's why people
look forward to it. People really look forward to it.
It was appointment television wanted to see their Glee, and
(44:48):
they were excited when it was preempted. It was a
big deal. It was like, there's not going to be Glee,
you know. It's like, will I be able to get
through the next week? Because we were so we were
so hooked on that that feeling. We were hooked on
a feeling.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
That's what we looked on.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
We can outlive.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
A vocalist.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
Also, I'm not a vocalist. As you can see. It's
just a list of things I cannot do.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Thanks Paris.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah, we're sad that it's all done, but we couldn't
have done it without you and to have you back
in to recount all of these things, and.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
It is my pleasure, it's my one of I'm trying
to think, are there any shows that bring me as
much joy as g we did and or that still
resonate with me? I guess the West Wing in a
different way was a professional experience for me, but I
only did three episodes of that, and I think in
Treatment also, oh yes, really resonates still to this day
(45:49):
with me. I watched an episode with ur fun Con
just because I was thinking of him, and and Glee.
I think those are the three shows of of my
time here on Earth that always will be gifts. Wow,
I think there are gifts to me, and there were
gifts to the audience. They were beyond just being shows.
(46:10):
They were significant culturally and they had important things to say,
and they said them, and with some gray suits and
elegance and sometimes not always perfectly, but that's the that's
the genius of genius. Sometimes it's messy, but it delivers.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Oh wow, thank you, thank you, thank you for doing this.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
I really appreciate it. I love listening to it. And
I have to watch season six. I didn't watch season six,
so I'm really I should.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Watch season six.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
I really, it's I.
Speaker 3 (46:40):
Want to watch it. I didn't watch it. I was
just too busy, And.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
I'm I think there's some really lovely moments that you'll really.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Go back and watch it because of y'all.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Some good laughs, yeah, and some you know, craziness where
we get off the rails a little bit, but you're
used to that. You know that we'll come back.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
I've seen a few episodes of it, but I haven't
seen the whole series.
Speaker 4 (46:59):
So thank you.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
So much.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Christopher.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
Than Town will invite you over because we never do
that anymore. Will have to drag your asses over.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
You will be there and whistles, kids are okay in
my house? Good luck. I don't know, all right, Well.
Speaker 3 (47:23):
Love you guys.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
What a man, truly, what a man?
Speaker 2 (47:32):
I just so much joy. I just don't think I
realized how much of a fan of the show he
was as well, And that means so much coming from somebody,
And like also just speaks to the care and that
he gave when he came in and to all of
us into the show. And I mean, he's such an
extraordinary career, an extraordinary resume, and he's been around forever
(47:55):
and he doesn't have to be this way, but he
is because that's the person he is.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
And he's just so.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Excellent and what he does and still so humble and
has just seen it all. So we're just I mean,
when we learned that Paris was coming on to do
our show, I remember being like, whoa, that's like one episode,
that's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
And it was intimidating. Yeah, And as you hear though,
he sure he can be intimidating because he's seen a
lot and he's worked on incredibly successful shows, but he
walks in with that level of care and attention to
detail and really care. He's really great with actors, really
really good with actors, and so us who were pretty
(48:34):
green coming into this, he really held our hand through
it and never never made us feel like we didn't
know what we were doing because he's a fan of television,
he's a fan of you know, this style of storytelling
and clearly a fan of musicals in the show. And
so it was every day we got to work with him.
Every time he was back, I was so excited. We
(48:55):
all were the best.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Yeah, well, thank you so much Paris for listening to
our podcast us too, and also being such a wonderful
mentor guest friend. We love you, we appreciate you, and
Gilee appreciates you. We know this, and just keep shining
your light.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
And truly, after all the good details he gave us,
that's what you really missed. Thanks for listening and follow
us on Instagram at and that's what you really miss pod.
Make sure to write us a review and leave us
five stars. See you next time.
And that's what you really missed with Jenna and Kevin
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to you, and that's what you really miss podcasts.
It wouldn't be the same if we didn't have this
guest back one more time to wrap it up with us.
He directed two thousand and nine in his very busy schedule,
and he did his research when he came back. So
(00:31):
Paris Barclay's here, and what a treat it is.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh my god, Oh my god. So for those of
you who are listening, Paris's background on zoom right now
is a picture of all of us and are sit
down your rock in the boat outfits from.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yeah classic a classic episode of the Glee and you.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Were just you have greatest hits of classic episode today.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I do just just marvelous work by me. Yeah, and
I did it all myself. That's what's so amazing. I
really didn't need the script or the actors, no, to
make a wonderful episode.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
You don't think Paris is a gaffer, but let me
tell you I can gaff.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I can of them.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, very.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Very hello.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Welcome back, Yeah, welcome back. You have left quite the
impression on the show. We still use your term Auchi's.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I'm an Auchi today because I had a procedure in
my eyes, so I'm not quite as beautiful.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
But oh no, you look great, even better. A busy,
busy man an icon So thank you for taking some
time to come back and see us for a second time.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
When you're an icon you do make time for the
things that matter. That's part of iconograph.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
We're getting a lesson. We need to know this for
our future icon Iconic. Yeah, exactly, it's truly that word.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
You get the idea. We do.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Good to see you. What we want to talk about today, Well,
you were here, so we've gotten to the end of
the series basically.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yes, you haven't posted the last episode.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yea, now correct. And when you were here the first
time you said your favorite episode you did was Wheels,
but your second favorite episode, and you watched it in
preparation for that time. It was two thousand and nine.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
It is true, and it's still true, and we.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Just watched it and it's a wonderful, wonderful episode because
of one, you know, the emotion of it and the
nostalgia of it. But two, technically speaking, you also had
to do quite a bit of crafty work there to
make it fit in seamlessly with a pilot that was
shot on film six years prior.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, but it kind of look I'm right, I'm right
among all of you now if I at that, the
main thing was research. I mean I look back and
I have all these screen grabs from the pilot, all
these things we were trying to match as close as
we could, and how you looked. And I remember we
were doing makeup and hair, and Jenna, you had that
whole hair thing that you had to go through and
(03:23):
that's why you're wearing a cap through. Yeah, all of
the episode. I think you're wearing a little nature.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I had a big blonde, a lot of blonde in
my hair, and so there was like spray pain involved
and hair spray pain at least, and just lots of
things that didn't match.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
So, yes, some.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
People were easy. I mean, Shee was easy, Mercedes was easy.
I think already you were pretty easy. Yeah, you had
to get the clothes and the suspenders back, and.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Because the hairline started receding.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
And remember Rachel and Sue were a little bit more
tricky because they had different hair and she went obviously
went through a whole makeup transition, so we had to
go back to the old look for her, and Kurt
was just impossible.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
It's a full head taller, no, and and.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Just see his face was very different. He evolved, you know,
he really grew up on the Glee and it made
a big difference. So I mean, I think we may
have shot mister Sella Thane with him singing it again,
but we just it just really it was just so different.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
And then mister Sulliphan was so iconic that like, how
do you try to recreate that when it's so different?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
He looks, yeah, so we just have him used the
hair flip that he did, the immortal hair flip from.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Behind, which to be on it makes it even more
iconic because you don't want to taint with the original performance.
And like seeing that the silhouette was I mean, no,
it was beautiful and was really effective.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
And I did some research because you know, I like
to prepare if.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
I'm going to want that's a director prepared.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Really, you really missed. And that episode was the highest
rated of the sixth season, and you know, obviously the
finale came after it, so it's later, so it's going
to lose some viewers. But I think I'm glad that's
that so many people saw that in the sixth series
because it really brought back, you know, the magic of
(05:14):
the show. And if you think about it, I was thinking,
why does this work so well? And I think the
main reason is they wrote it to do what they
used to do sometimes in the early days, which is
make every song have a reason. Every song was either
advancing the story or was part of one of your auditions.
They weren't just let's do you know Gaga, it was
(05:35):
just like, let's do let's make the songs work. And
watching it again, there's like two whole acts where there's
no songs at all.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Towards the end of.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
It, after your auditions, there's just no songs until we'll
watch this his tape and then the end of it.
So I think every song moving things along, even Popular,
which was wonderful. Yeah. I mean, they could have just
had you sing popular, Let's sing popular, but they made
it a scene. They made her having to help him
to become, you know, likable in a party of the
(06:03):
week Club was sort of an awesome use of that song.
So it's just everything fit in. I was trying to
think that I don't think there's a song that was
just there just to be a song. Closest was his
Name is Jesus, the Mercedes number. But but Rachel had
to see that. Rachel had to see that power to
know what she was up against. And so even that
(06:24):
worked in the traditional musical theater way that advances the
story and and and causes her to go into another
area of destruction.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Do you do you? Yeah, it's true? Do you? I
mean you did both types of episodes, you know, you
did the like Diva and things like that where you
had these big musical numbers that didn't necessarily advance story.
Do you prefer to do something like this or.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
So?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
The show was greatest really when it did this, when
it really did, you know, tie the musical number is
to the story. That's what Wheels did in the very beginning.
You know, Dance with Myself was such an iconic thing
because it was it was revealing all about this character
and his relationships with everybody, and it was all wrapped into
a song. And I think that's when the show was
(07:14):
really strong. It was still entertaining, like doing Diva and
doing Dance with Somebody. The Whitney Houston one but it
didn't quite scratch the same I think good galat Itch
as two thousand and nine did. Yeah. Yeah, But I
do have something for you. I have a list. I
have the top six Easter eggs in the episode. Some
(07:37):
of them you mentioned, but some of them you missed.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Okay, all right.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Number six you mentioned, which was Kurt sewing his single
lady's outfit, which was delightful, just a little bit of it.
You'll watch that. Number five was Rachel saying she looks
like an old justin Timberlake. Yes, yes, that was really
inside And for those of you who may not know
just the originally going to play that part or was
(08:02):
was who they had hoped to play that part of
it was wonderful for me say that number four is
Shoes saying a sing office not a bad idea exercise.
I love those things. I really rewarded that those of
us who are watching everything, we got a really good giggle.
Number three and this one could have been higher because
(08:25):
of the shot, but Ken saying I always wanted to
be in the male and with his mournful little face
just slave. Oh.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I also he is so good. More of him over
the entire entirety of the series.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah, yeah, he's actually in the pilot of Doctor Oyssey.
If you watch, there's a couple of lines there towards
the end of it. He appears. It's a long story,
but we just put him in just for chuckles. Number two,
even though it was just there for us and obviously
had nothing to do with the story. Crossing Blaine in
the line of Bean and that conversation he's happy with
(09:05):
the gay not day member of the Warblers is hilarious.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
I really really love it.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yes, and number one and you'll have to go back
because you may have missed. This is after Krosskey and
Puck Bully uh uh Kurt, Yes, thank you. They walk
off and fuck touches him and cross just don't be gay. Yes,
(09:32):
just as they're walking don't be gay. I mean that
was so I don't know if that was an ad
lib or that was in the script. That was my favorite.
It's just it's sort of muttered and you can easily
miss it. Those are the top sixty.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
How did it work with you? You know, fitting in some
of that actual footage from the pilot, some that was
in a director's cut of the pilot, and some of
actually in the pilot. How did that work for you
in terms of making sure everything else looked the same.
And yeah, I don't think we saw around that.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I don't think we used anything from the pilot. I'm
trying to think did we use anything other than the end.
I believe that was the only thing we used, which
was when when Finn appears at the end. That was
actually shot for the pilot, and that was so meticulously done.
I look back at my editor's notes. We went back
and forth exactly when we should come into the song
(10:29):
and how we can segue to Finn's face coming in,
and how many repeats of the intro we had to do.
I think we had to repeat the intro like eight times,
so would time out to be exactly that moment when
we needed to make the cut and Finn needed to
come in. And it still takes my breath away just
to see him after we've been talking about him, and
(10:50):
we saw that little moment when sort of Finn pushes
your wheelchair there and you look up at him and
then to actually see you know this, you know, final
his beautiful face and they're singing the song and he's
singing ironically. You know, some will win and someone will
lose and that song and everybody sings the blues and
suddenly those words take on a different a different message,
(11:13):
and then is it. The movie goes on and on
and on. Yeah, you should know this. Yeah, and the
movie goes on and on and on, which is where
we are today because it does continue. Yes, saga hasn't ended.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
That's right. That's that's why we're so fortunate to have
you who to like helm this because you have such
a familial connection with all of us and the show,
and like your care and like deep respect and thought
about everyone personally and for the show always comes through
in your episodes, and especially something like this, which really,
(11:46):
you know, ties to the origins of the birth of
all this and like to hear you talk about it,
to hear like it's it's it's really meaningful for us
to hear you know how much care you put into it.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
It very much almost did not happen because, as you
may remember, that episode was shot as episode nine in
the season. It wasn't shot is the second to the
last thing we shot, and that was part of just
shuffling around my schedule and I was finishing Sons of
Anarchy at that time. And I was getting ready to
go to England to do The Baster Executioner, which was
(12:19):
Kurt Sutter's next FX show that we did together, and
I was president of the Directors Killed at that time,
and lots of was jumping off there, and so it
sort of just worked in my schedule. Ryan really wanted
me to do that episode, but we had to sort
of jostle it around to get it to be that way,
and it was thought to be the end of the show.
That was going to be the end, but then as
time went on, they thought, let's see what happens into
(12:41):
the future by these people, which is not a choice
I would have made. But I am not one of
the writers.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
You've executive produced a lot of shows, You've forged on
a lot of shows. I feel like to the end
of a series has to always be so difficult about
how you do it? What do you do?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
You know?
Speaker 1 (13:07):
We were talking about this with Yeah, the episode after
two thousand and nine, how there is some flash forward
and things like that, and a lot of shows have
used that device. Yeah, how have you found like, I mean,
even with some of your other shows, but like the
best way to wrap up, you know, characters and stories
that mean a lot to people over you know, extended
periods of time.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Well, I would have left it at two thousand and nine.
I just thought bringing it back to the youth and
the exuberance and the originality of the show, and then
ending you know, within Alive and singing with Rachel and
you know the other people. I think, we don't we
have Santana and they come in and they watch, I
(13:49):
would have just stopped right then. I don't think that
leap four. Now it's become such a cliche. Six feet
under and loss and all these shows have done the
jump in time thing. Even think Station nineteen did it
when we ended Station nineteen. It's you know, now it's
become such a thing. Yeah, and I didn't love you know,
Sue becomes vice president. It's just like it became like
(14:11):
it was almost like, I just want you to remember
this show is truly absurd. When if two thousand and
nine had been the end, it's I just want you
to remember. This show was full of heart and love
and innocence and eventually heartbreak. So to me, that would
have been a better conclusion.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Well, Ian said when he came on the show that
you know, these people. These characters never really should have
succeeded in the way that they did, Like it should
have been more insular where this is where Wigley Club
stops is at the end of high school for most
of these people, right, which is the reality obviously for
(14:51):
our show and purposes. You know that that's wasn't the
way it went. But I think that's interesting that you
say that, because.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah, I do you agree with them. I just think
part of what made it joyful was that they didn't win,
that they lost more than they won. Yeah, because that
felt like life, and you know, as everyone succeeds and
everyone is happy, and now we're at the Harvey Milk School.
To me, I just push away from it. I just
don't feel like I believe it anymore. But that's just
(15:22):
me right now.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Those are very good points. Do you remember having conversations
with Ryan or anybody going into this episode about, you know,
the goal of it, of trying to make it at
the time it was the what they thought was going
to be the finale, and how they wanted to go
back and fit all these storylines into fill in the
gaps of what we didn't see in the pilot, Like
(15:43):
what did you know, I guess you know going into it.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Yeah, I don't remember much. I know we had a
tone meeting to talk about it, and Ryan was very
very much eager to match people, to get people back
to what they were, not only in their fashion and
their hair, but also in their tone. He said, that's
really important. And I didn't really have to do too
much because you guys slipped right back into it.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Most particularly to watch it was so fun to watch.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I think you know you didn't get I think you
gave MVP to everybody, but I think Leah for me
was the MVP. Just she just got back to that pace.
She got back to the brittleness, she got back to
the insecurity. All that stuff was just like an old shoe.
And I think that's why she's such an extraordinary Broadway performer. Yeah,
because she can just pull that all that was there
(16:32):
and bring it right back. But at the same time
she could be that emotional girl who in the end
kills you. If you guys remember that was a really
tough scene to shoot. She was not that was not
smooth with that final scene when she gives that final speech.
It wasn't Leah just give me a final speech. It
took a beat, and she broke a little bit, and
we had to take moments to do it. But what
(16:54):
we cut together I think is awesome. But you know,
she is a human being, she is not acting machine.
And that speech mattered a lot. R Yeah, it came through.
It wasn't quite as easy as Miss Saigon or Black
Dorothy from the.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Whiz, which also wasn't easy because we kept ruining it.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Forever to shoot we did.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
I was laughing from the video village because it just
was so I don't know, you even keep going. It
was such something and that sounds very ian like, but
some of those things, she says it with such a
straight space, and then you look at Mercedes and then
(17:38):
we're just duck out. We're just done.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I couldn't look at anybody. We were all looking down
at get through it. And we started looking at the
at the beginning of it, but we were working her
up because we were breaking and she was really committed
to getting through it.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
And it was just delightful, and she did it everywhere,
even her voice over the room, my space. I mean,
I just thought she was extraordinary in it, truly, truly,
you who also was really good because I just watched this,
I guess two nights ago now April Grace, who is
(18:18):
an incredible I've done like four different shows with her
incredible actor just between the two of them, and just,
oh my god, that scene is so beautifully done and
it's super simple and it's very emotional. I did wonder
why so few people were in the church. I thought,
did we shoot this during COVID? It felt like, remember
during COVID we could only have ten extras COVID extras.
(18:44):
But it seemed very fair. I don't know, I cannot
remember why.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
It was a rehearsal.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Is that what it was?
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I don't know. That's in my head, that's what I
was like, Oh, it must be a rehearsal.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
But everyone was stressed in their church stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
They were it.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Was very budget was waning in that at that point
the same money.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And you know, black people are very expensive, so you
have to you have to, like you any a little
bit ext just to get them there, especially.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
I don't know if anyone.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
You don't know if and I know black people are
expensive and we should be.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah, yes, what else.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I'm curious though, because you've done so many shows at
this point, and you've seen shows to the to the end.
Do you handle as a director of series finale differently
than another.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Episode, Yes, that's the answer. Yeah, No, I mean, and.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I just I just went through with Doctor Ousty. It's
very painful because people don't want to let go, and
they don't want to let go because it was a
great time. And I know you guys feel this. That
was for all the pain we went through in the
making of that show and in the experience of it.
But everything that we went through, and then you get
to the end and you want it to be beautiful
(20:08):
and you want to sort of sum up everything, and
you want people to sort of keep it together and
have that last experience be a good one. You don't
want that last experience to be painful at all. And
so the joy of two thousand and nine when we
did it, even though you had other episodes to do,
is it had a feeling of completion colorin of itself.
(20:28):
You know, it had an arc, and when Finn comes
out in the end, you knew you were there at
how this all began. And I thought it sort of
was so well written that it was hard to up.
I've been on many shows where we get to the
end and it's like, this is kind of bad, and
(20:50):
then you have to be really loving to everyone to say,
you know, we're going to do the best we can
with what we've got, and you really really turn your
attent to the crew too. I always encourage the cast
to really give the crew props at the end because
a lot of times people forget that they've been through
this ride with you too. You guys have been really
(21:11):
good about, you know, really mentioning the crew and bringing
on Andrew and some other people. But yeah, a lot
of people don't know, Hey, you know who you don't
talk enough about speaking of crew and injuries.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
You know, we don't speak about the editors enough.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
And maybe because you didn't really know them.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
No, you're right, we didn't.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I mean Beeker was our editor that we knew very
well who kind of came back onto set. That's the
other thing we got to know very well. But you're right,
we haven't spoken about the editor.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I'm thinking about it if you keep going or you
go another season. I had the editor, Doc Kratzer on
He did Diva Special Education and Lights Out Me and
each one is completely different, completely different and has different
kinds of chops. John Roberts did Dance with Somebody at Home. Ye,
Alex Soskin did both one hundred and two thousand and
(22:03):
nine and one hundred if you remember, has all those
numbers and you know, raise your glass and I had
the weird you know, Britney Spears meets Chicago Toxic Toxics
that we did. If you look at how that edited,
it is crazy great. Yeah, you know, just the hands
were in the glass and all that stuff were, it
(22:26):
is beautiful. So a lot of this, a lot of
credit that you know sometimes goes to the director really
belonged to those editors because they brought me something you know,
that was beyond what I expected. Certainly Doc and John
always did and Alex too. They brought me something that went, wow,
we did that. Yeah, and then I could just sort of,
you know, finasien improve. But so much it was put
(22:47):
together by their by their genius. So something to be
said for that.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, No, definitely, it's amazing that we didn't really have
a relationship with the editors and we get these episodes
back and see them like, oh my god, like you said,
you know, it can make your work, your work look
even better. It absolutely made the actors work. Well, they're
staring at us all day and they know what we're doing.
Oh yeah. They in the show for.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
A while, like Doc was on for several seasons. They
see every other cut that everyone else is doing, and
they kind of know and they know this director, I
have to do this. I mean, they get used to
us too, and they know what we need and Brad,
they know they don't have to worry too much because
they're gonna have tons of material and great.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Yeah. So it's it's it's really an art that if
I had to do it all over again, I think
I'd be very interested in being an editor because I
don't really like people as much as I appear to.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
You're very good with people.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
They're so exhausting, we really are, and you know that
you're hard and you fall in love with them, and
it's really like, oh my god, you just don't want
to be around people at all after a while. Yeah.
So the editors get to stay in that little room
and just in the dark and go back and forth
and make it look cut.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
They know all the secrets, all the secrets, they know
all the outtakes.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
They put them in a bin for outtakes.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Reels who can't remember their lines, who came prepared exactly.
Do you have any other favorite memories from I mean
shooting the show in general, or shooting two thousand and
(24:28):
nine that you think about, and you know, anything that
brings you some sort of joy, Any numbers that you
love watching or that you remember filming or even off.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
I mean the numbers that I love are mostly in Whitney,
the Whitney episode and Diva I just and they are
usually not the story numbers. Oddly enough, the numbers that
just In and of themselves are are the music videos.
But on my playlist on spat if I and you'll
(25:01):
be happy to know this, Kevin. One of the ones that's,
you know, so frequent is your Justin Bieber take and
Somebody to Love that is right in my rotation.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
If you gave me a million dollars to guess what
you were about to say, I would not have them.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
I also love the Rhythmation Musical. I just think it's great.
That's in my sort of cardio playlist because that's great.
But I really think I think the thing that I
most wanted to talk to you guys about is the
quarterback because I disagreed with.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
You please give it to us.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
But I'm not in your position, That's the thing, because
I'm I am so much more objective and part because
I didn't live in the show the way that you
guys did. I mean, you lived in it, and I think,
and you strongly stated that show really felt like your
emotions and you feelings were being thrown on the screen
and in a way that was very unfair. And I
(26:04):
think Ryan kind of capped to it too. It is
really difficult to ask actors to, I guess, even try
to separate the character of Finn from the person of
Corey and just play the loss of Finn without feeling
the loss of Corey. That's a very sophisticated thing to do,
and nobody was ready to be able to do that.
(26:25):
I think, Kevin, you said at one point you could
sort of find yourself dissociating from it, but oddly was
what was really needed, you know, well, to protect yourself. Yeah,
just to protect yourself. But that skill is very, very
advanced and very few people have it, and so what
what they were asking of you was actually more than
(26:47):
I think is possible for you to do. At the
same time, the episode for us who watched it was
devastating and emotional and needed. I mean, for us who
just watched the show all the time, we wanted to
grieve and we wanted to see how the characters dealt
with this really badly. And if you think about it,
(27:11):
they could have done in a million different ways, but
they took a huge swing just to say, let's do
it and really show the rawness of it. I mean
that it wasn't very glee to do it that way,
now you know, it really wasn't. I mean, when I
think of the scene of the family, Kurt comes in
with the boxes saying, here, I want you to separate
(27:31):
these things, and each of the of them talks sort
of about what Finn meant to them and the loss
of him, and how you know, Bert says, I wish
I could have hugged him one more time. That stuff
is very true to people's lives, and even if they
haven't experienced pain like that, the families who have see
it in that and the ones that haven't are experienced
(27:53):
in it through you. So it really ended up being
a huge gift. I was thinking it was a lot
like Hearts and Soul, which was the episode I did
of NYPD Blue where Jimmy Smith's died back in the day,
which was so devastating.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I remember watching that.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Yeah he didn't die, he wasn't dead. Yeah, you know,
he was an actor and it was very sad, but
it wasn't quite as deep as dealing with Corey's loss
and Finn's loss at the same time. But it did
give us space. It gave us space to sort of
play our own tapes of losses. For those that are
older and who have had enormous losses. It brought me
(28:28):
back to losing my brother. I lost my brother in
nineteen seventy six in a car accident, and when an
episode can it's not tragic to regrieve. It's sort of
in a way a gift to healing to feel that again.
And I thought they really it took balls to do
that episode and to do it in that way. It's
(28:48):
a lot of props. But at the same time, I
think it's a hell of a lot to ask of
humans and the people that were your age.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
You.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, yeah, I don't disagree with you, Paris. I think
that in hindsight now, the place I've come to is
I'll never watch it again, but because I lived it.
But I understand the fans loved it so much, and
you're like, why did I love it? It was their place,
it was their funeral right, it was their way to
say goodbye, and they didn't have that like we had
(29:18):
that now on the other end of things. I don't
think Ryan, I don't think Brad. I don't think anybody
who was creating this or making this choice was even
in a place to be making this decision. We had
to make it so fast and set on the fly,
and we hadn't had space to grieve on our own.
Had we done the quarterback the season after, I think
it would have been very different.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Now.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
It would have been painful, yes, but do I think
it would have been so raw. And we hadn't processed
or gone through any of the stages of grief at
that point. So we were going through the stage and
asked for our characters to go through them faster than
we were going through them ourselves, and that was really hard.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
And if you were to do it in a sensitive
way now that we're ten plus years after, you would
have really dealt it with consoling. I mean, you really
would have provided consoling for everybody, to really give them
an opportunity to share before you touched that episode well, and.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Then also to do the memorial on the stage where
we were performing for us as seasons they did Corey's
funeral in the auditorium.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, that's a tough one.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
That was tough for me because we did the funeral
there and then we were asked to come back to
work to grieve him again in character, and it was
like I had already been to this place and done that.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
You know, there was just.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
A lot of mixing where I don't think we were
given the ability to separate it.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Yeah, but those of us who didn't see that, the
behind the scenes thing, you should just know that it
still ended up being hugely significant in our lives because
we needed we needed some closure again. And although it
was much more than I could take at some point,
you know Rachel's song and you know Mercedes, I mean,
(31:04):
that was more than I could take, even Fire and Rain,
which Kevin, you have no way of knowing. But when
that song came out in nineteen seventy, I was a
freshman in high school, believe it or not, that's how
old I am. And you know, we always wondered what
it was about, and James Taylor wouldn't say at that
time what Suzanne was and what it meant, but as
(31:27):
time went on he did. He revealed more about you know,
it talked about his experience in rehab, and it talked
about his loss of Suzanne and her committing suicide. And
you realized that this song was profoundly personal, and so
when you were singing it with that now knowledge, I
just thought, you know, there couldn't really be a better
song for this moment. It's not on the nose, so
(31:49):
not everyone gets it, but if you really dive into
what it's saying, there's so much, you know, everyone gets.
And I always wanted to see you again, you know,
I was hopefully i'd see you once again. Everyone feels that.
But there's so much in that song that's really deeply
resonant in Corey's story, and it was just really super deep.
I did think, though, if the safer way to go
(32:11):
would have been just to do a memorial service, which
is sort of what you guys have done on your podcast,
basically done, you know, in the episode that you did
after where you got all those people from all over
the world talking about how great he was. Ben had
that backstory too, and there could have been a way
to make you know, truly a celebration been you know,
(32:33):
as opposed to dwelling and the pain. You could have
just created a memorial service which different people spoke and
different people saying, and maybe some of those same songs
were sung, but it also emphasized where he brought joy
and how people were lifted up by him, right, which
is sort of the part that kind of was lost
in the quarterback because the pain was so clear intense.
(32:58):
But you guys, I think did it really well honored
him by having people really talk about just the little
ways he changed their lives, you know, the little the
little moments they have with him, sometimes just glancing, sometimes
completely through the television. He just made a huge, huge
impact on so many people.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Yeah, I mean, it.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Would not have been as daring, it would not have
been as emotional maybe, but it might have been. It
might have been better for y'all because when you're in
a memorial, you do emphasize you don't want to dwell
on the horrible things. You want you want to dwell
on the gifts that they gave you. I think, and
that would have been, you know, something that would have
(33:38):
been really Yeah. But maybe they'll redo the whole show.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
And hopefully they don't need a you know, a reason
to have a memorial episodes.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
And this week, you know, and not to get totally down,
but this week losing Malcolm Jamal Warner in the Drownding,
I mean that must have brought back it's stuff for everybody.
I mean, I knew Malcolm. I used to represent him
when I had a music video company, so I met
him when he was on The Cosby Show. And he
is truly the way everyone has described him. You're very
finn like, you know, very giving, very open to everybody,
(34:16):
you know, trying to do his best, easy with the smile.
Everyone in the cast loved him. He's very reminiscent of
Corey and Finn and then he's lost in that way
that's reminiscent of Naya, which sent me into a whole Yeah,
just a whole emotion for like a full day. So
it was just like, you know, just just these there's
(34:40):
so much unfairness of things. Yeah, as I think has
been written before, and I don't know that was just
that was just a down or.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
You know, I think it all goes back to what
you were saying about whether or not. How we felt
filming that these things are an unavoidable part of life,
and the way we experience them before we have to
experience them in real life is through media like this,
whether it's through a song like Fire and Rain, or
whether it's through a TV show or a movie, and
(35:12):
how we learn about these different horrible human experiences in
that way and have these people to look towards as
a guide when these things happened to us and have
a safe place like people might have, you know, during
the quarterback to grieve, but also, like you said, spreading
the joy of like you had these incredible experiences with
(35:36):
all of these people who we've lost in horrible ways,
but we've also got to experience so much joy with them.
And to be able to also live in that and
acknowledge that and remember those memories and tell other people
about the positive ways that they impacted people is also
such a gift because like we're happy to do that
because it's like we get to brag about these people
(35:57):
that we got to spend so much time with. Yeah,
and not everybody, unfortunately, is going to get to have
those experiences, but like we are all living testaments to
you know, their wonderful character.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Yeah. Yeah, and that joy does go on. I mean
it does if you want Nutbush City Limits, if you
just I think everyone here should stop whatever they're doing
and on YouTube and watch Netwish City Limits. Suddenly you
can't help but smile. You can't help but be lifted
(36:28):
by her. And you know, everybody who performed in that
that song is crazy. But at the same time, it's
it's so up, it's so it's so filled with joy.
And to think that that joy can be brought to
you in this five minute or four minute. Yeah, a
little sampling like that shows you the power of that
woman and choreographers and everybody and once again the editors.
(36:51):
But when that all comes together, it lifts you like
you know nothing else. I remember the first time I
saw a teenage dream, I want to go to some
of the joyful thing. Yeah, I think Brad took it.
Did Brad direct that episode? The first episode, Yeah, of
which in which I remember Brad showing it to me. Anyway,
(37:11):
for one reason, you gotta look at this. You got
to see this, guys, he's going to be in your episode.
But I think I did. The second episode, Darren was
in or something and so I watched it and I went,
this is amazing, And once again, it's everything. It's not
just him and the way he performs. It's the way
they're choreographed, it's the way they look, it's it's Chris's
reaction to seeing him, which is so delightful. He doesn't
(37:35):
really quite know what to do with his feelies.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
When all those things line up, when all those different departments,
and there's also that sort of intangible thing, the magic,
the magic of it, and that's you feel that that
could that jumps through the screen, that moves your body.
It's a physical reaction to that.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
It really does. And what what show does that? I mean,
I certainly no show that does that today, And there's
no musical show you know, whatever it was always playlist
or whatever that's been able to accomplish the kind of
emotional and the excitement of the production of some of
these things that has been able to do. It's it
(38:16):
will always be and I don't think it will be replicated,
but it will always be there as sort of this
gold standard of what's possible in musical television. And they say, well,
musicals don't work, and blah blah blah. It said well,
for many years of people were watching Glee and it
was very much a musical. Yeah, it was very much
(38:38):
unabashedly musical and it worked just fine. So stop it,
stop it, stop.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
It go like go put on nut Bush.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Exactly, cut your nut for sea on and go to
the city limits.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
And honestly, that is no better example than Bush. I
love that that was your reference because you're We.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Watched that the rehearsal in that, and we said, oh
my god.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Like you when someone is people always talk about like
the X factor or whatever that thing is that like
stars have even watching it now in the rewatch where
she walks in the beginning of Nutbush like that is
a king, superstar, like whatever is happening there, and I'm
(39:36):
going to sit back and enjoy this. I'll pay a
billion dollars to be front row with whatever this is.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
And then what was the episode you talked about it
before where we had Christian Chen with and she did
a house is not at Home?
Speaker 1 (39:52):
You want to just have Goose about my favorites a
whole number on the show.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
It's it's in a very different way. It's another really
joyful thing. And that was one of the few times
Ryan came to the rehearsal because Ryan was very keen
on how that number should be done, and he had
a vision. It was obviously the famous was it Barbara
streisand recording of OUs Home. It was a duet. I
think it had been done with Barbara Streis in doing
(40:20):
both sides of it, I believe, and that's what it
was based on. But he saw this scene in it,
and as he explained it and as we laid it
out the choreography, we went beat by bete about where
they go and how they moved and where the camera
would be, and it became just so seamless, and the
two of them, their voices sound so great together the
(40:41):
arrange for his classic, and then they moved through the
rooms and they end up in bed in a way
that's really quite original. And that's once again what a
musical can do. And there's a liing between them. You
don't know, does he really want to?
Speaker 1 (40:53):
But not everybody could, not everybody could make the song
that already feels like that, make that feel like that
watching it and your deep understanding and appreciation of music
and like your history with it. I think like when
you watch a great music video and it makes the
song even better. It's like that, like that number whatever
(41:16):
is happening on film, this even element If I just
heard that song, like, oh, this is really good, but
it is how I'm viewing it and experiencing it for
the first time that makes me really really love that song.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Yeah. I think we talked about this before. But the
other one that does that for me is at the Ballet,
which was that in Lights Out could have been lights Out.
It was not in a great episode whatever it was.
It was an episode that was not great, but that
song and all ten minutes of it and the full.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Orchestra You're right it was.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
We had there and Sarah jessin Parker and doing all
three bruises of that long song and the ballet answers.
It just show you know, this is out of control.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Yeah, that's but like, how how lucky was Glee to
have you? Truly and You're gonna sit there and take
it now, but I'm not going to take to this
is how like I'm so glad people can hear Like,
(42:22):
first of all, your recall, your memory for memories, the.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
Amount of shows that you've worked on and yet yeah,
but the the impact of all those examples you gave.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
It isn't just somebody, well, we're gonna shoot this wide
and cover the dance numbers here. It is because you
care about the story so deeply and understand how that
comes through with each song, even if it is just
a big, huge musical number like you're always looking for,
how is this going to impact the person watching it? Yep,
And with you and the editors and everybody on that
(43:00):
set to come together in some of those gigantic numbers
and pulling them off. Doing at the ballet for that
long and not losing people is difficult, but it's because
it is so good and it takes everybody, but you
are a steady stand at the top of it. There.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Well, my gift, if I have any gift, is to conduct.
You know, I can't really play the instruments, and I
can't write the music per se either, and I am
a very good conductory. And that's what I do. I mean,
that's why I really see my job is, you know,
let's make sure the timpany comes in right here. Let's
(43:41):
build this like this. Yeah, let's everyone start and let's go.
And it's because there's really no other drop I can
do well enough that I've ended up being the conductor
slash director because I cannot act or I can't descript
supervising or props or camera or anything. So I ended
(44:02):
up being the conductor and I conducted there I do.
I think it's it's really a skill. And also, guys,
I was doing Sons of an Anarchy at the same time.
I know you know this, Jenna, but we were like
shooting our mothers and killing Russians and Chinese people by
the boat load with great regularity. By the time we
were getting towards the end of both of these shows
(44:23):
because they were kind of parallel, and I needed a break,
and that's what Glee was just for me, and then
eventually for the viewer. It was this great, exhausting I mean,
great way to take you away from your exhausting world
to kind of this this beautiful place. That's why people
look forward to it. People really look forward to it.
It was appointment television wanted to see their Glee, and
(44:48):
they were excited when it was preempted. It was a
big deal. It was like, there's not going to be Glee,
you know. It's like, will I be able to get
through the next week? Because we were so we were
so hooked on that that feeling. We were hooked on
a feeling.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
That's what we looked on.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
We can outlive.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
A vocalist.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
Also, I'm not a vocalist. As you can see. It's
just a list of things I cannot do.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Thanks Paris.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah, we're sad that it's all done, but we couldn't
have done it without you and to have you back
in to recount all of these things, and.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
It is my pleasure, it's my one of I'm trying
to think, are there any shows that bring me as
much joy as g we did and or that still
resonate with me? I guess the West Wing in a
different way was a professional experience for me, but I
only did three episodes of that, and I think in
Treatment also, oh yes, really resonates still to this day
(45:49):
with me. I watched an episode with ur fun Con
just because I was thinking of him, and and Glee.
I think those are the three shows of of my
time here on Earth that always will be gifts. Wow,
I think there are gifts to me, and there were
gifts to the audience. They were beyond just being shows.
(46:10):
They were significant culturally and they had important things to say,
and they said them, and with some gray suits and
elegance and sometimes not always perfectly, but that's the that's
the genius of genius. Sometimes it's messy, but it delivers.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Oh wow, thank you, thank you, thank you for doing this.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
I really appreciate it. I love listening to it. And
I have to watch season six. I didn't watch season six,
so I'm really I should.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Watch season six.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
I really, it's I.
Speaker 3 (46:40):
Want to watch it. I didn't watch it. I was
just too busy, And.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
I'm I think there's some really lovely moments that you'll really.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Go back and watch it because of y'all.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Some good laughs, yeah, and some you know, craziness where
we get off the rails a little bit, but you're
used to that. You know that we'll come back.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
I've seen a few episodes of it, but I haven't
seen the whole series.
Speaker 4 (46:59):
So thank you.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
So much.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Christopher.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
Than Town will invite you over because we never do
that anymore. Will have to drag your asses over.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
You will be there and whistles, kids are okay in
my house? Good luck. I don't know, all right, Well.
Speaker 3 (47:23):
Love you guys.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
What a man, truly, what a man?
Speaker 2 (47:32):
I just so much joy. I just don't think I
realized how much of a fan of the show he
was as well, And that means so much coming from somebody,
And like also just speaks to the care and that
he gave when he came in and to all of
us into the show. And I mean, he's such an
extraordinary career, an extraordinary resume, and he's been around forever
(47:55):
and he doesn't have to be this way, but he
is because that's the person he is.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
And he's just so.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Excellent and what he does and still so humble and
has just seen it all. So we're just I mean,
when we learned that Paris was coming on to do
our show, I remember being like, whoa, that's like one episode,
that's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
And it was intimidating. Yeah, And as you hear though,
he sure he can be intimidating because he's seen a
lot and he's worked on incredibly successful shows, but he
walks in with that level of care and attention to
detail and really care. He's really great with actors, really
really good with actors, and so us who were pretty
(48:34):
green coming into this, he really held our hand through
it and never never made us feel like we didn't
know what we were doing because he's a fan of television,
he's a fan of you know, this style of storytelling
and clearly a fan of musicals in the show. And
so it was every day we got to work with him.
Every time he was back, I was so excited. We
(48:55):
all were the best.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Yeah, well, thank you so much Paris for listening to
our podcast us too, and also being such a wonderful
mentor guest friend. We love you, we appreciate you, and
Gilee appreciates you. We know this, and just keep shining
your light.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
And truly, after all the good details he gave us,
that's what you really missed. Thanks for listening and follow
us on Instagram at and that's what you really miss pod.
Make sure to write us a review and leave us
five stars. See you next time.
Host
Jenna Ushkowitz
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