May 22, 2025 • 36 mins
Get ready for some fascinating behind-the-scenes stories about seasons five and six from the man who was in the room where it happened!
Glee co-creator and writer Ian Brennan is dropping truth bombs on Jenna and Kevin! He gets honest about the hard pivot the show had to make after Cory Monteith passed away, the storylines he wishes they never did, the seasons that were the easiest and hardest to write, and why. Plus, he reveals his ranking of the seasons, which shocks Jenna and Kevin to their core!
For fun, exclusive content, and behind-the-scenes clips, be sure to follow us on Instagram @andthatswhatyoureallymissedpod!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
And That's what you Really missed with Jenna.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And Kevin An iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to and That's what You Really miss podcast. Do
we have the Founder, the Pioneer, Ian Brennan.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
One of the Holy Trinity. We have Ian back because
the recap is coming to an end, and we found
out Ian has some strong feelings about season six and
some missing memories and some missing memories, which a common
theme here on That's what you Really missed? And I
(00:41):
think I'm very excited for you all to hear what
he has to say about so much. We talk about
a lot, a lot, so buckle up. This is Ian Brennan.
Oh my god, in a suit.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I'm dressed like an off duty birthday clown.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I beg to say that for us, this is how normally.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
No, No, it's not. Yeah, it's off Yeah, it's not that
off brand.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I'm not saying the clown.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
You said that.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I think you dress very dashing style.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
I've looked better at guys.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
I I exercised before coming here, so I'm good for years.
I've got some flyaways.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
It's kind of blazer on.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Aren't you warm after you work out and you put
a warm blazer around like that.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Gotta keep gotta recovery.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
You gotta work in the muscle muscle confusion, extream muscle recovery.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Your muscles are like suits on. Now let's clean it up, boys.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Guys, we've gone from the gym.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Now hit the boardroom.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I know this is not why we asked you to
be on here. I feel like you've always had such
a distinct sense of style. You have great sensibilities when
it comes to these things. Well, thank you, and like,
what have you always had that?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I know it's when I stopped wearing jeans.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Have been talking about this.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, I don't think I ever met you were wearing
jeans when we met you.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Sort of around nine to eleven, but there was no read.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
That's right, that's right, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
But yeah, I can't do it. I can't wear jeans.
So is this the last how far through are you?
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Are you? Is it the last one?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
We are at? We're in the last season. Half we
did the last season?
Speaker 5 (02:31):
Great, Yeah, so we're in.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Then we're in the end.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
We're in season six.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
But I need to take it back because I think
we need to take it back to like season five.
I think it's important to like talk about what you
remember and what it was like, like post Cory going
into season six obviously from like the spin off of
New York going into season six with the newbies, like
(02:55):
how did you get there?
Speaker 5 (02:56):
And what was that like?
Speaker 4 (02:59):
It was terrible.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
It was awful and I don't think it worked, and
it was like it was really hard. I think it
was so hard that I sort of like blocked it out.
I'm not a big person for like blocked out memories,
but like I just kind.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Of blocked that out, Like I totally blocked about it out.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
It was just really really, really hard. It was like
I think we thought originally that it was I mean, look,
it's my own credit. We had to do something, and
we had to once we probably talked about this, but
like early on in the show, I would have preferred,
probably wrongly, to not acknowledge time at all.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Right, right, Simpsons, it would sort of reset, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Second was sort of like you second you have Rachel
Berry be like I'm a sophomore, and then you're like,
it's prom You're like locked into the earrow of time.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Since see we had you on that all of a
sudden was it was never mentioned and then all of
a sudden, we started like very specifically referencing time in
such an odd way because it got stretched out over
like a season and a half.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Yeah, graduation school, it was you.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
It's like he would have just been like, you could
have just made it.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
We just didn't have to be that that final point
on it, I thought, And then we just sort of did,
and it made sense.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
You don't want you.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
We didn't want to watch you all turn thirty, although
but also who cares, you know, like it wouldn't I
don't think it would have mattered, but it sort of.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Like locked us into that.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
So then Corey Diyes, the whole show artistically that we
were setting up was in which he would sort of
come in and become mister Shoe.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
That was sort of like, well, okay.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
And then it was we Then then it was sort
of like, all right, we have to sort of like
we don't want to lose these characters who are now
like aging out of the high school, bring in a
new cast. And it was just like that's just tough.
It's just yeah, it's a show about this. I think
this show is always going to be a show about
(05:06):
a high school.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Second, it's not about a high school.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
It just gets weird, right, Oh, it's a little bit
like when did he cut her hair?
Speaker 5 (05:16):
Right that they're like, oh my god, why do we
ever cot her hair?
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Like, Oh, I guess it is.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
That show's just about like a teenage girl with like blonde,
curly hair. The second you're like messed with the DNA
that suddenly it's like, well now she's short curly hair.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
People are like, what.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
Show I'm not watching anymore?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
So, which is the show didn't work at all? People
still like loved our show. It would just ave us
harder to I I had trouble with wrapping my head
around it.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, did you think that like at the end, did
you have an endgame for Finn in the show? Like
did you think it would just kind of go on
in this way where like Corey would just pop into
the mister Shoes, you know shoes, and then like it
would live on that way and then when Corey died,
like that whole plan went down the pooper or was it?
Speaker 5 (06:04):
Like, yeah, was it?
Speaker 4 (06:05):
I forget?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
I'm sure I'm sure Ryan had like a last see.
I think I would have been like, I forget. I
don't know what it is, but I seem to remember
that he had some idea for like this is where
that's how we stick the landing right by and large, Yeah,
and you could have kept it in the school, but
(06:27):
like still then then folded in new people. You know,
we sort of tried to do that, and it was
not for lack of like like everyone was great.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Who we brought oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Has gone on to do great things.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Like it was just you're like, oh, the car can't
get out of like second year, I felt yeah, s
artistically and then we had to sort of like I
remember always being like we're really belaboring this, like what's
going on it?
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Yah know, what's this?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Like this back and forth between New York and Ohio. Yes,
like oh it's just don't really shoe leathery and you're
just like, oh, this is like it just became hard.
The first two seasons of the show were like just
like flew off the page, which is key, and then
it just became harder after that, and then I guess yeah,
(07:17):
like like yeah five was is that yeah?
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Yes, yeah, just hard.
Speaker 6 (07:24):
Yeah yeah, Cause you also like and we talked about
this a lot, where like our emotional state going into
this thing was also obviously just wasn't us on camera.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
It affected every the hundreds of people that showed up
to work every single day. And then you guys, before
any of us ever showed up, had to get together
to somehow like do some work and make this thing happen.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Wanted to be I mean partially part of me would
want to be. Like it's like when a when a
member of a band dies and the band going, it's
almost always you want to be like, no, you kind
of want to do the led Zeppelin thing. Yeah, it's
just't but we kind of couldn't. It was like and
it was like but it was so tragic and so
(08:11):
you're just like, ah, it was like going to a
wake every day, and then it was just like pushing
like a h a dead mule up a hill, just
like this is just hard, hard, hard, And then everybody
sort of you know, grief is so weird that I
think that like just everybody processes differently. Like I put
(08:33):
on like a very helpful cone of like denial and
be like I'm going to compartmentalize and I'll grieve this
ten years from now, right slow, you know, just be.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Like nope, not happening, yeh.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Like it's just and everybody's just different in that way.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
So it was just it was weird in that sense.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
That all that said, I think we did probably a
pretty good job of like making it a watchable show
and it was interesting a new cast whatever it was like,
there was like to be had. There's probably things. I
mean again, because I don't remember almost any of it,
there are whole like characters that will be like.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
Who's that now, don't worry, we didn't watched Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's just a function of
the show being like suddenly, like the DNA just like
totally changes. That said, there's probably like there's probably really funny,
good quality stuff in there.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
It was just it's just a different show.
Speaker 6 (09:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
No, it was really good, honestly, Like rewatching it, there
were just so many moments where we were like, I
think we have to rewatch, especially the early season five Beatles,
Katie Gaga, end of Twerk, puppet Master, like all those
really weird ones. We had to be like, hey, this
is what we were all going through. Let's give everybody
(09:46):
an effing break, like because it was so hard and
there were really really great moments.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
Especially towards this end of that.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
The second part of the fifth season when we did
like City of Angels, Beautiful one hundred, like they were
all really great.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
It just was different.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
And then going to New York, Like, do you remember
being in the room or like talking with Ryan and
Brad about like making the switch to the I call
it like the New York spin off of just being
in solely in New York for the second half of
season five.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Yeah, but I remember sort of feeling like every time
like the move was like this is high school show.
It was totally different, and you're thinking about different things,
and it's like, in a way, it's too adult.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
It's my critique of the show.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Early on, we should have kept the show less adult,
like nobody should have boned down until like, way, make
that the thing that we all are won, you know,
like make it like.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
They boned down. Can you believe it?
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yeah, Instead, it sort of became like then once we
got into there, it was just sort of like like
sort of college sex romp.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
It was like, well, that's just weird.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
And it just is it suddenly like doesn't quite fit
the format, which is like Glee Club, which is by
virtue of what it is like wants to be a
little bit underdeveloped and like innocent in a way funny
about it. Yeah, silly and sort of like childish. It
is so, but once we were there, it was it
was fine. There was like there were now also in
(11:24):
this case, I was directing.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
More and so when I directed out of the writer's room.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
So season five is probably the one that I feel
least attached to writing wise, because some for the first time,
some of the episodes I didn't I didn't have a
word in weird. So suddenly then you'd be watching a
cut of something you'd be like, I don't know what,
I don't know where they came up with that. But
that's just my virtue of feeling so connected with the show.
(11:50):
Early on, it wasn't that it was it was just like,
oh yeah, this thing was Yeah, it was like quite
quite different. What were Tina and Already doing?
Speaker 5 (12:09):
So Tina and Already, well we have.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
A model the time you you were.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Just like you were in this like swinging London. I
remember that.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
I loved it. Yeah, Tina and Already were vying for.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Orion and in front of me and Rachel was and
then we were also Already was kind of left out
of this trio of Sam Blaine and Tina where we
did like jump and jump in and the school like locking.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
And called trio and it's about everyone graduating, but there's
a fourth one graduating was me. So the whole episode
which is like.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Hey, you guys, funny but it was great.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, and then got into New York. Yeah, Tina went
to Brown.
Speaker 6 (13:02):
And then.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
Recur or recurring directer Jenna went to a recur Right,
how how did season vie?
Speaker 1 (13:14):
We were it was New York, so it was like,
h Rachel goes to New York, she gets the role
and funny girl. They open it, It gets great reviews.
Then the guy comes for the reality show, and then
we have Chris's episode in between there with the old
Folks home, and then it ends with entitled Rachel Berry
(13:37):
Product Project where she's yeah, going back.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Kurt Blaine, Rachel, Sam and Sam are all in New
York and make a promise in Mercedes like Sam got
his modeling gig. They're like, we're going to meet back
here in six months. Everything's changing because Sam's like, I'm
going back to McKinley, and that's when we see like
McKinley again. I don't know He's like, I just wanted
(14:05):
to get on the side of a bus and I
did that, So I'm going to go back home now
because I miss my people.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
He goes to me the football coacht and then he's
like looking through the.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Glee club door window and it's now a computer lab.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
I know this sounds crazy, it actually was great.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
And then they did POMPEII and Rachel broke the fourth
wall on the very last scene. Do you remember she
looks straight down the barrel of a camera, oh, which.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
I don't think I've talked about on here. After we
watched that, I did message Brad because he directed it,
and I was sort of like, what what was that welcome?
He was like, well, I don't really remember, but it's
one of two things. He was like, we were always
desperately trying to sort of reinvent the wheel because we've
done so many musical numbers, like how can we do
(14:58):
something different? And he's like, so that might have been it,
but it was He's like, that's probably what I used
to justify number two, which was we probably just tried
it and I liked it, and so we just kept it.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean the fans really took to
it though, because if they felt like it was like
Leah breaking in the fourth Wall as Rachel kind of
being like because she looks up to the sky and
then she looks at the camera and then she kind
of walks off with a smile, and so there was
this moment of like I'm okay. We're like I'm okay,
I get that.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, yeah, you know, it works.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
And the fans really really enjoyed that. And I thought
it worked. I totally thought it worked. It was just
so jarring when I watched it first, I was like.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
I didn't remember much of that.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
We didn't well, we were scared going into it because
we you know, in our heads it's like one, two
and three were like really solid or like four. But
the fans were like, oh no, it's good, and we
watch it and it's great. And then five remember even
less as Ian also, and then six we were watching
for the first time. Really yeah, fully for the first time.
(16:06):
But five there's a lot of a lot of really
great moments, and you do the challenge that we talked
about where I think you sort of tried at season
five and then really accomplish it season six, which was
bringing in new people. And in season five, like you said,
so many great actors, but it felt like at first
(16:27):
it was everyone was sort of playing an archetype that
already existed on the show. You had like the new Finn,
you had the new Quinn, you had the new Santana,
like all these people sort of coming in which didn't
last that long, and then they sort of became themselves
like other characters.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah, but going into season six, the fans were like,
oh no, these new kids, these characters are amazing, and
so far it's true. It's sort of what you said
in the beginning about what the show is, where it's
like it's a glee club and it's like it's janky,
it doesn't really work. The characters are all over the place,
(17:08):
come from different places, and that's what really happened with
the season six kids, and I think so far why
it's really enjoyable and successful in that way.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
So how long are you? How far through six are you?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Half way?
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Should we start talking about season six now?
Speaker 5 (17:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Yeah, So I think it's actually when the show gets
spectacular again. I loved it was so much fun and
I think partly like I rank them one, two, six, three, four.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Five, Oh my god, I loved it because we didn't
give out more. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yes, it feels like that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Like when we were watching. I think throughout we were
just so aware. It seems comical now, like we were
so aware of like rating, So when you're like a
network show, you're like the rating.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Well, we got moved to Fridays and nobody was watching it.
Did that have an impact? Like did you know first
of all that it was going to be thirteen episodes
and that we're going to be on Fridays.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
We I don't think we knew the day, but we
were sort of like, ugh, this is probably the end.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
So and I think it was just they again, this
is the thing with network television.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
They were probably like, we got to get this turkey
off the air to put on one of our new
development things, and then they would do that. I'm sure
the thing that replaced our show at lower ratings than us,
because it wasn't a show that was getting lower ratings.
It was like network television was getting lower ratings.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
That's why I could.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Go back into a time machine, yes and back and
like knock on the door there and be like, hey, hey,
don't blame us for like the ratings going down, the
rates going down, is this shift in the landscape, Yeah,
this is happening everywhere, And then it would be like
what used to be.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
You know, we would be.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Like, oh, we got a one we scored.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Now that would be like people were like whoa.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Right, So I thought I think part of the difference
was that we were like, Okay, we've hit the end
and we no longer felt the need to fight that
fight and to do like fan service, which doesn't work
when you're like Twitter lesbians are saying like we need
to to do this, or like Tumblr thinks that we
(19:24):
should do and you're just like no, no, no no.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
When you do that, it doesn't work.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
You drive yourself nuts a little bit, like you're just because.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
They're not the ones that came up with the show.
The shows and you Brad and Ryan have the DNA
of this show, and so it's like any feeling off
of what you The.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Season that was most successful was where we wrote all
of it before anybody.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Saw it, so it was just like boom. We essentially
like dropped.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
It and then you're like, oh wow, there was no feedback,
and the feedback loop.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Just did not help the show. I don't think.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
But so then by the time of like season six,
it was just like just very very fun. I just
remember the hurt Locker, but I don't there's other stuff
where we were just like, oh no, this is just
like we just should have fun and enjoy the ride again.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
And then is it still are we still in New
York at all? Or it was all back and we're back?
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Yes? I think Also that's just helped here we are
you but you still you're back with the villain who's
going to complicate everything.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
You're back with like right Eye.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Young kids, and then and like characters that like the
the the audience knows, and like it was just a
much much easier thing and not having to do this
show about college half the time, where you know, this
is just like okay now, because what was good about
the show is it like low low stakes?
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Were high stakes?
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yes, it was like, oh my god, they I gotta
I gotta go. The dad will think I'm I'm in
their bathroom and they're gonna think I'm pooing the right
amount of like the the you know, the everybody fighting
for a Olive Garden gift certificate is the right amount.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Of steaks for like a show about high school, So
like that helps.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
It's suddenly the scale of what's happening, and then you
can do funny things because in a high school, if
you do something mildly ribald i e. Like Sultan pepa At,
like a pep rally is going to be scandalous and funny.
You know it's nice and it's sort of like happens
to be Pg.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Thirteen.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
So it's also like it's really funny. But also anybody
could watch it, you wouldn't be like, yeah, it's a
expression advice like that was just never gonna work with
the show.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
So I think that helped us.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
And then it was just sort of also it was
we didn't know. We're like, we just have to do
like thirteen of these. We can like do it in
our sleep. And then like how does it start? Do
we know?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
The Starwood loser like me? So she Rachel learns that
the arts is been banished, so everybody comes back.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
And we do.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
The Rachel Barry project thing happens where is the worst
pilot of all time, and so she gets canceled in
many ways and then you know, goes back to Lima
with her like tab Beteen her legs and learns that
there is no glee Club anymore, and uses her money
(22:27):
from the pilot to like restart the glee Club with
Kurt Yep and Will's teaching vocal adrenaline coaching vocal adrenaline
Yep and Blaine. But my favorite thing, and I feel
like it's very Ian thing, is like when when we
(22:51):
have like an awkward segue into a song, or we
have like how did this character get back here? And
you just answer it really quickly with one like very
self reference line of like acknowledging how insane it is.
You just keep it moving and it happens a lot
this and like the first episode, Darren's just like and yeah,
I'm not really a teacher, but like I'm doing it now,
(23:14):
and so he's head of Dwarfloers.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
I love it well, But.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
I think this was the kind of that's what that's
why the season was fun, That it was just sort
of just a little bit like let's just have fun
and you could just sort of Maybe it's because it
was like that we felt like it was almost summer
vacation or something or that like it was a substitute
teacher and we were just sort of like letting to
do or you were just like we had senioritists I
(23:44):
think a little bit for.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Sure, and we just came through like the hardest year
ever before.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah yeah, I mean there's such a Scanner Darkly version
of like and again it's like the the longevity of
the show versus the tragedy of Corey Monty is dying
is I don't mean to make those a one to one,
but let's say he hadn't.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
I mean, I just do think.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
There's a world where that the show went for ten Yeah, yeah,
yeahs it really could have. So it is interesting to
talk about this other sort of like sort of like
intense Plan.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
B that so ended up being.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
And I think probably seeing I think probably.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
And again this is me I get. I get so
down on the show because.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
It's like in these ways because I was like on
the inside of it. It's very well for me, I
acknowledge it. Like anytime again, I think we've talked about this.
Anytime you bring it up to like a civilian or
somebody who just likes the show, they do not know
what you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Yeah, Like, well here's the thing. So like season five
is a little bit weird.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
I think that like the second half of the season.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Two, we were maybe a little bit hired.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Three didn't quite were, and they're just like you might
as well just be speaking a different language, like you know,
this show's good, So I like I need to always
like remind myself like no, no, no, no, no, you don't
have to be.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Hard on it. Yeah, it's also like a really it
was on a good day. It's a hard show.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, just it's a miracle anything ended up film or
on TV.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
It's expensive, it's a lot of characters, music, it doesn't
not a lot of stuff happens, a lot of personalities,
a lot of personalities. Yeah, it's just like it's a
miracle that it worked at all. Really low stakes kind
of it's a miracle that it worked.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
So it's like all all that saying.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
That. Yeah, I think it by by the end, it
was we were a little bit punch drunk, but it
just ended up being like really really silly and really fun.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
If do you think that shorter season acts. I think
how it does now with most shows that are fewer episodes,
where it does make it more focused or you're not
having to fill twenty two episodes. Yes, like, oh we
have thirteen like you said you do in your sleep,
but we can also make each episode really exciting.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
No, And I think there's a reason why, like those
big orders have sort of like gone the way of
the Dodo. They're just like harder, and it's like the model,
I think a more successful model seems to with it.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
With some exceptions like procedurals.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
That you can watch out of order or whatever, but
broadly it's just like, uh, you can kind of wrap
your hat around. It's so hard, but it's not like impossible.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Especially for an hour long.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
It's crazy to do twenty two.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
It's just a real you have to work all year.
You just don't ever stop. You just call yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Yeah, So it's like so yes, I think that helped,
and I think it didn't.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
You didn't have to.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
There were no her keys where I think there were
in like not in one and two, maybe in three,
four five. There were just a few where you'd be like, op,
I was always just like we should put like a
title card at the end.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
That's just sort of like sorry, like this show is hard,
like tune in next week.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah, yeah, that one missed the mark a little bit.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Did you know that, Like when you were writing it,
could you You're like, you finished the episode, You're like, hmmm,
I'm not sure about this one.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sometimes.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
But sometimes you'd be surprised.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
But sometimes when you're breaking it, you're just like, these
are weird ideas. But then the weird idea is like
really work. And that's the thing with the show like
this that is a little bit weird, and it was
just that was in the dna of it, like sort
of swings and weird stuff that you're gonna have you're
just gonna miss.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Sometimes I think.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Other shows that weren't going as fast or or had
that were a little bit easier you could the It's
almost like the quality control of this show was like
less quality control, and they shot these amazing things, yes
that that were really good that you couldn't you couldn't do.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
On any other show.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
And again, I think I think the narrative that I
kept telling myself throughout in a in a in an
environment where that the ratings kept persistently dwindling, that we
kept saying like, ah, we're not doing it as well
as we were before. And I don't think.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
That's entirely fair.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
I agree now like we're one hundred and something episodes in,
so it's going to be different.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
You're right, I would get.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
I think I expressed my frustration with the pace and
the exhaustion, often with some self self reference and sort
of which I don't know quite why I did that,
and I would do it a lot, and then I
think I thought, I don't know it. Probably I would
probably go back and change that and be like, you're
(29:00):
quit breaking the fourth wall for you. That might be
actually kind of disorienting for an audience member who for
whom this world is still intact and real, right by
virtue of like you know, snarky snarky recaps in Vulture
(29:20):
plus a dwindling rating. I think i'd assumed, like, well, nobody,
nobody considers this world intact anymore. That was the way
I dealt with it, was to be like, oh no, no,
this is still a bit of a house of cards,
but like, look how clever we still are, and look
how entertaining this.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
Show still is.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
Got it?
Speaker 3 (29:40):
I should have been I think we should have been
more confident in the reality of the show, right and
not rely on being like as gimmicky should My big
thing is like we should never met. We should have
never made like Quinn, like Lucy Cabussy, do you remember that?
Speaker 1 (30:02):
You never forget it, But it's like a bit of
a It really undermines the reality of that character.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
It works for a moment, it's a great episode, but
it's sort of if you watch after that, like Quin's
her status totally changes, not.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Like Queen Bee anymore.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
She never recovers for the rest of the show.
Speaker 5 (30:26):
Right, No, she doesn't, Right.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
And it was like, it's stuff like that that I
think we would sort of do routinely that I now,
like fifteen years later, i'd be like, oh, watch out
for those like or be better at buying them back,
or know that you're sort of like selling a character
down the river. Maybe you because you're on the inside
(30:49):
of it, you're not as attached too, but there is
like there's a you're playing with the reality of a
world that for like an audience is is still very real.
But again, I thought, this world isn't as real as
it would have been, so we should play around with
it more like a little bit sort of like breaking
(31:11):
forth wall, like more in the vocabulary, because I think
we thought people would have been there weren't enough people
who were still paying attention, which there were.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
I do think though you. I don't think you were
doing the self referential stuff, for example, too much. In
season six. To me, it felt more confident because the
show started like that, the show's a satire. We would
do that kind of stuff every now and then, and
it felt more like season one to me in the
(31:45):
way that because it wouldn't be belabored where I feel
like sometimes in season five, in some of four maybe
some of those things like we're just hitting it over
the beating a dead horse sort of thing.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
But in season six.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
That was noticeable to me that it was like quick
and like punchy, and that's why I like sort of
sat up. I was like, oh, this is funny, Like
Blaine is saying something like this, I believe it. And
it does feel like that, Like to hear you say
that now about sort of the state of mind for
(32:18):
season six, I totally feel that, right, And you feel
that in every single character where the old and the new,
like everyone sort of feels liberated and lived in and
the new characters feel lived in, but they fit in perfectly.
And it also does feel like we're having to force
these new kids on you, right.
Speaker 5 (32:37):
They like click in.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
What was it like, what was the conversation about bringing
a whole group of new kids in to the school
in the last season, did it feel like, no, question.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Like that's not that much time. I feel like thirteen
episodes and you're getting all propit kids on top of
all of us who are already there.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
I mean, just the fact of the way you said
that like gave me a little bit of stomach ache.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
Just now.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
Back then I would have been like, who are they?
Is it the Twins?
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yes, the Twins, Roderick, Jane who was originally going to
be a Warbler and came over.
Speaker 5 (33:13):
We've got uh.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
And that's Madison the Twins, Spencer who's the out gay footballer.
But like that's right, post post postmodern gay.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Yea yeah, yea, yeah yeah. I like Jane a lot.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
She was fun and she was easy to write towards. Yeah,
the Twins, I don't know that I wrote all that much.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
They were funny, what they're great though, And roderg was
like the new one with like the amazing poice and
it was very brief, but like it gave Rachel and
Kurt yes a glee club, right, and he gave them
the vehicle for them to lead a glee club simultaneously
together as you know co teachers, which I enjoyed, and
(33:53):
they're very funny together.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Like you have to actually, this is what's been wild,
Like no nobody you have to also like teach m
it's a j school.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
And they're very quickly falling into like shoe pattern where
they're not really coming up with a lesson until the
day of because they heard somebody say.
Speaker 5 (34:10):
Something inspired writing something down the ball?
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Did we do?
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Is there more of doing this song where it's like
I just wrote this song.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
But it's like, fully, no, there there haven't been that
many more original songs well that yes, yes, oh yes,
there's fully the like and then Santana and Brittany were like,
we'll show you how to do it, and the band's
ready to go.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
And that's classic.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
But again, once it's sort of baked in that, you're like, well,
this is sort of what the theme of the show
is going to be.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
That's sort of like how we do.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
That's the show's structure. I probably felt less squeamish about
doing that in this season than prior ones.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Sure it feels like that, and Jane has this incredible
speech to Matt about about how he's never even acknowledged
the presence of any of the band and they're just
expected to know all of these songs. And she goes
on this whole round and it's the only sort of
like normal thing she ever says on the show, and
(35:14):
everything she says to Matt, it's just like, yeah that
actually yes, she was like a recap of all of
his horrible things he's done the entirety of six seasons.
It was very good.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
It's really funny, very funny. She's still just she still
slaps still got it. Season five, Season six, as you heard,
was a joozy. I feel better that Ian doesn't remember
as much. It doesn't make It makes me feel better
about myself and how little that we remember.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Oh this whole experience is healing for.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
This reasears Yeah, yeah no, but as you can see,
it was clearly very traumatic and jarring for us in
many many ways. And also like just the I don't know,
it's insightful to hear like his take on and like
not wanting to leave McKinley at all, like.
Speaker 5 (36:08):
I were.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Like that was not our situation is fascinating.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
His mindset of just being like This is a show,
a show about a show, choir like show about a school.
Don't leave the school. So it's fascinating. Anyway, there's a
part two, y'all. Uh, there's more to talk about. Hurt
Locker is a very very large part of that and
we dive, we have to dive deep into that. So
(36:38):
he'll be back next week with Part two. Ian Brennan,
Stay tuned and.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
That's what you really miss Thanks for listening, and follow
us on Instagram at and That's what you really miss pod.
Make sure to write us a review and leave us
five stars. See you next time.
And That's what you Really missed with Jenna.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And Kevin An iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to and That's what You Really miss podcast. Do
we have the Founder, the Pioneer, Ian Brennan.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
One of the Holy Trinity. We have Ian back because
the recap is coming to an end, and we found
out Ian has some strong feelings about season six and
some missing memories and some missing memories, which a common
theme here on That's what you Really missed? And I
(00:41):
think I'm very excited for you all to hear what
he has to say about so much. We talk about
a lot, a lot, so buckle up. This is Ian Brennan.
Oh my god, in a suit.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I'm dressed like an off duty birthday clown.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I beg to say that for us, this is how normally.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
No, No, it's not. Yeah, it's off Yeah, it's not that
off brand.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I'm not saying the clown.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
You said that.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I think you dress very dashing style.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
I've looked better at guys.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
I I exercised before coming here, so I'm good for years.
I've got some flyaways.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
It's kind of blazer on.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Aren't you warm after you work out and you put
a warm blazer around like that.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Gotta keep gotta recovery.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
You gotta work in the muscle muscle confusion, extream muscle recovery.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Your muscles are like suits on. Now let's clean it up, boys.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Guys, we've gone from the gym.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Now hit the boardroom.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I know this is not why we asked you to
be on here. I feel like you've always had such
a distinct sense of style. You have great sensibilities when
it comes to these things. Well, thank you, and like,
what have you always had that?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I know it's when I stopped wearing jeans.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Have been talking about this.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, I don't think I ever met you were wearing
jeans when we met you.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Sort of around nine to eleven, but there was no read.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
That's right, that's right, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
But yeah, I can't do it. I can't wear jeans.
So is this the last how far through are you?
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Are you? Is it the last one?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
We are at? We're in the last season. Half we
did the last season?
Speaker 5 (02:31):
Great, Yeah, so we're in.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Then we're in the end.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
We're in season six.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
But I need to take it back because I think
we need to take it back to like season five.
I think it's important to like talk about what you
remember and what it was like, like post Cory going
into season six obviously from like the spin off of
New York going into season six with the newbies, like
(02:55):
how did you get there?
Speaker 5 (02:56):
And what was that like?
Speaker 4 (02:59):
It was terrible.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
It was awful and I don't think it worked, and
it was like it was really hard. I think it
was so hard that I sort of like blocked it out.
I'm not a big person for like blocked out memories,
but like I just kind.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Of blocked that out, Like I totally blocked about it out.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
It was just really really, really hard. It was like
I think we thought originally that it was I mean, look,
it's my own credit. We had to do something, and
we had to once we probably talked about this, but
like early on in the show, I would have preferred,
probably wrongly, to not acknowledge time at all.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Right, right, Simpsons, it would sort of reset, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Second was sort of like you second you have Rachel
Berry be like I'm a sophomore, and then you're like,
it's prom You're like locked into the earrow of time.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Since see we had you on that all of a
sudden was it was never mentioned and then all of
a sudden, we started like very specifically referencing time in
such an odd way because it got stretched out over
like a season and a half.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Yeah, graduation school, it was you.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
It's like he would have just been like, you could
have just made it.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
We just didn't have to be that that final point
on it, I thought, And then we just sort of did,
and it made sense.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
You don't want you.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
We didn't want to watch you all turn thirty, although
but also who cares, you know, like it wouldn't I
don't think it would have mattered, but it sort of.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Like locked us into that.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
So then Corey Diyes, the whole show artistically that we
were setting up was in which he would sort of
come in and become mister Shoe.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
That was sort of like, well, okay.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
And then it was we Then then it was sort
of like, all right, we have to sort of like
we don't want to lose these characters who are now
like aging out of the high school, bring in a
new cast. And it was just like that's just tough.
It's just yeah, it's a show about this. I think
this show is always going to be a show about
(05:06):
a high school.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Second, it's not about a high school.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
It just gets weird, right, Oh, it's a little bit
like when did he cut her hair?
Speaker 5 (05:16):
Right that they're like, oh my god, why do we
ever cot her hair?
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Like, Oh, I guess it is.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
That show's just about like a teenage girl with like blonde,
curly hair. The second you're like messed with the DNA
that suddenly it's like, well now she's short curly hair.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
People are like, what.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
Show I'm not watching anymore?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
So, which is the show didn't work at all? People
still like loved our show. It would just ave us
harder to I I had trouble with wrapping my head
around it.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, did you think that like at the end, did
you have an endgame for Finn in the show? Like
did you think it would just kind of go on
in this way where like Corey would just pop into
the mister Shoes, you know shoes, and then like it
would live on that way and then when Corey died,
like that whole plan went down the pooper or was it?
Speaker 5 (06:04):
Like, yeah, was it?
Speaker 4 (06:05):
I forget?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
I'm sure I'm sure Ryan had like a last see.
I think I would have been like, I forget. I
don't know what it is, but I seem to remember
that he had some idea for like this is where
that's how we stick the landing right by and large, Yeah,
and you could have kept it in the school, but
(06:27):
like still then then folded in new people. You know,
we sort of tried to do that, and it was
not for lack of like like everyone was great.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Who we brought oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Has gone on to do great things.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Like it was just you're like, oh, the car can't
get out of like second year, I felt yeah, s
artistically and then we had to sort of like I
remember always being like we're really belaboring this, like what's
going on it?
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Yah know, what's this?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Like this back and forth between New York and Ohio. Yes,
like oh it's just don't really shoe leathery and you're
just like, oh, this is like it just became hard.
The first two seasons of the show were like just
like flew off the page, which is key, and then
it just became harder after that, and then I guess yeah,
(07:17):
like like yeah five was is that yeah?
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Yes, yeah, just hard.
Speaker 6 (07:24):
Yeah yeah, Cause you also like and we talked about
this a lot, where like our emotional state going into
this thing was also obviously just wasn't us on camera.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
It affected every the hundreds of people that showed up
to work every single day. And then you guys, before
any of us ever showed up, had to get together
to somehow like do some work and make this thing happen.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Wanted to be I mean partially part of me would
want to be. Like it's like when a when a
member of a band dies and the band going, it's
almost always you want to be like, no, you kind
of want to do the led Zeppelin thing. Yeah, it's
just't but we kind of couldn't. It was like and
it was like but it was so tragic and so
(08:11):
you're just like, ah, it was like going to a
wake every day, and then it was just like pushing
like a h a dead mule up a hill, just
like this is just hard, hard, hard, And then everybody
sort of you know, grief is so weird that I
think that like just everybody processes differently. Like I put
(08:33):
on like a very helpful cone of like denial and
be like I'm going to compartmentalize and I'll grieve this
ten years from now, right slow, you know, just be.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Like nope, not happening, yeh.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Like it's just and everybody's just different in that way.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
So it was just it was weird in that sense.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
That all that said, I think we did probably a
pretty good job of like making it a watchable show
and it was interesting a new cast whatever it was like,
there was like to be had. There's probably things. I
mean again, because I don't remember almost any of it,
there are whole like characters that will be like.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
Who's that now, don't worry, we didn't watched Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's just a function of
the show being like suddenly, like the DNA just like
totally changes. That said, there's probably like there's probably really funny,
good quality stuff in there.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
It was just it's just a different show.
Speaker 6 (09:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
No, it was really good, honestly, Like rewatching it, there
were just so many moments where we were like, I
think we have to rewatch, especially the early season five Beatles,
Katie Gaga, end of Twerk, puppet Master, like all those
really weird ones. We had to be like, hey, this
is what we were all going through. Let's give everybody
(09:46):
an effing break, like because it was so hard and
there were really really great moments.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
Especially towards this end of that.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
The second part of the fifth season when we did
like City of Angels, Beautiful one hundred, like they were
all really great.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
It just was different.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
And then going to New York, Like, do you remember
being in the room or like talking with Ryan and
Brad about like making the switch to the I call
it like the New York spin off of just being
in solely in New York for the second half of
season five.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Yeah, but I remember sort of feeling like every time
like the move was like this is high school show.
It was totally different, and you're thinking about different things,
and it's like, in a way, it's too adult.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
It's my critique of the show.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Early on, we should have kept the show less adult,
like nobody should have boned down until like, way, make
that the thing that we all are won, you know,
like make it like.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
They boned down. Can you believe it?
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yeah, Instead, it sort of became like then once we
got into there, it was just sort of like like
sort of college sex romp.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
It was like, well, that's just weird.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
And it just is it suddenly like doesn't quite fit
the format, which is like Glee Club, which is by
virtue of what it is like wants to be a
little bit underdeveloped and like innocent in a way funny
about it. Yeah, silly and sort of like childish. It
is so, but once we were there, it was it
was fine. There was like there were now also in
(11:24):
this case, I was directing.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
More and so when I directed out of the writer's room.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
So season five is probably the one that I feel
least attached to writing wise, because some for the first time,
some of the episodes I didn't I didn't have a
word in weird. So suddenly then you'd be watching a
cut of something you'd be like, I don't know what,
I don't know where they came up with that. But
that's just my virtue of feeling so connected with the show.
(11:50):
Early on, it wasn't that it was it was just like,
oh yeah, this thing was Yeah, it was like quite
quite different. What were Tina and Already doing?
Speaker 5 (12:09):
So Tina and Already, well we have.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
A model the time you you were.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Just like you were in this like swinging London. I
remember that.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
I loved it. Yeah, Tina and Already were vying for.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Orion and in front of me and Rachel was and
then we were also Already was kind of left out
of this trio of Sam Blaine and Tina where we
did like jump and jump in and the school like locking.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
And called trio and it's about everyone graduating, but there's
a fourth one graduating was me. So the whole episode
which is like.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Hey, you guys, funny but it was great.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, and then got into New York. Yeah, Tina went
to Brown.
Speaker 6 (13:02):
And then.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
Recur or recurring directer Jenna went to a recur Right,
how how did season vie?
Speaker 1 (13:14):
We were it was New York, so it was like,
h Rachel goes to New York, she gets the role
and funny girl. They open it, It gets great reviews.
Then the guy comes for the reality show, and then
we have Chris's episode in between there with the old
Folks home, and then it ends with entitled Rachel Berry
(13:37):
Product Project where she's yeah, going back.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Kurt Blaine, Rachel, Sam and Sam are all in New
York and make a promise in Mercedes like Sam got
his modeling gig. They're like, we're going to meet back
here in six months. Everything's changing because Sam's like, I'm
going back to McKinley, and that's when we see like
McKinley again. I don't know He's like, I just wanted
(14:05):
to get on the side of a bus and I
did that, So I'm going to go back home now
because I miss my people.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
He goes to me the football coacht and then he's
like looking through the.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Glee club door window and it's now a computer lab.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
I know this sounds crazy, it actually was great.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
And then they did POMPEII and Rachel broke the fourth
wall on the very last scene. Do you remember she
looks straight down the barrel of a camera, oh, which.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
I don't think I've talked about on here. After we
watched that, I did message Brad because he directed it,
and I was sort of like, what what was that welcome?
He was like, well, I don't really remember, but it's
one of two things. He was like, we were always
desperately trying to sort of reinvent the wheel because we've
done so many musical numbers, like how can we do
(14:58):
something different? And he's like, so that might have been it,
but it was He's like, that's probably what I used
to justify number two, which was we probably just tried
it and I liked it, and so we just kept it.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean the fans really took to
it though, because if they felt like it was like
Leah breaking in the fourth Wall as Rachel kind of
being like because she looks up to the sky and
then she looks at the camera and then she kind
of walks off with a smile, and so there was
this moment of like I'm okay. We're like I'm okay,
I get that.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, yeah, you know, it works.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
And the fans really really enjoyed that. And I thought
it worked. I totally thought it worked. It was just
so jarring when I watched it first, I was like.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
I didn't remember much of that.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
We didn't well, we were scared going into it because
we you know, in our heads it's like one, two
and three were like really solid or like four. But
the fans were like, oh no, it's good, and we
watch it and it's great. And then five remember even
less as Ian also, and then six we were watching
for the first time. Really yeah, fully for the first time.
(16:06):
But five there's a lot of a lot of really
great moments, and you do the challenge that we talked
about where I think you sort of tried at season
five and then really accomplish it season six, which was
bringing in new people. And in season five, like you said,
so many great actors, but it felt like at first
(16:27):
it was everyone was sort of playing an archetype that
already existed on the show. You had like the new Finn,
you had the new Quinn, you had the new Santana,
like all these people sort of coming in which didn't
last that long, and then they sort of became themselves
like other characters.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah, but going into season six, the fans were like,
oh no, these new kids, these characters are amazing, and
so far it's true. It's sort of what you said
in the beginning about what the show is, where it's
like it's a glee club and it's like it's janky,
it doesn't really work. The characters are all over the place,
(17:08):
come from different places, and that's what really happened with
the season six kids, and I think so far why
it's really enjoyable and successful in that way.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
So how long are you? How far through six are you?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Half way?
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Should we start talking about season six now?
Speaker 5 (17:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Yeah, So I think it's actually when the show gets
spectacular again. I loved it was so much fun and
I think partly like I rank them one, two, six, three, four.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Five, Oh my god, I loved it because we didn't
give out more. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yes, it feels like that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Like when we were watching. I think throughout we were
just so aware. It seems comical now, like we were
so aware of like rating, So when you're like a
network show, you're like the rating.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Well, we got moved to Fridays and nobody was watching it.
Did that have an impact? Like did you know first
of all that it was going to be thirteen episodes
and that we're going to be on Fridays.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
We I don't think we knew the day, but we
were sort of like, ugh, this is probably the end.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
So and I think it was just they again, this
is the thing with network television.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
They were probably like, we got to get this turkey
off the air to put on one of our new
development things, and then they would do that. I'm sure
the thing that replaced our show at lower ratings than us,
because it wasn't a show that was getting lower ratings.
It was like network television was getting lower ratings.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
That's why I could.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Go back into a time machine, yes and back and
like knock on the door there and be like, hey, hey,
don't blame us for like the ratings going down, the
rates going down, is this shift in the landscape, Yeah,
this is happening everywhere, And then it would be like
what used to be.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
You know, we would be.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Like, oh, we got a one we scored.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Now that would be like people were like whoa.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Right, So I thought I think part of the difference
was that we were like, Okay, we've hit the end
and we no longer felt the need to fight that
fight and to do like fan service, which doesn't work
when you're like Twitter lesbians are saying like we need
to to do this, or like Tumblr thinks that we
(19:24):
should do and you're just like no, no, no no.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
When you do that, it doesn't work.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
You drive yourself nuts a little bit, like you're just because.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
They're not the ones that came up with the show.
The shows and you Brad and Ryan have the DNA
of this show, and so it's like any feeling off
of what you The.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Season that was most successful was where we wrote all
of it before anybody.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Saw it, so it was just like boom. We essentially
like dropped.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
It and then you're like, oh wow, there was no feedback,
and the feedback loop.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Just did not help the show. I don't think.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
But so then by the time of like season six,
it was just like just very very fun. I just
remember the hurt Locker, but I don't there's other stuff
where we were just like, oh no, this is just
like we just should have fun and enjoy the ride again.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
And then is it still are we still in New
York at all? Or it was all back and we're back?
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Yes? I think Also that's just helped here we are
you but you still you're back with the villain who's
going to complicate everything.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
You're back with like right Eye.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Young kids, and then and like characters that like the
the the audience knows, and like it was just a
much much easier thing and not having to do this
show about college half the time, where you know, this
is just like okay now, because what was good about
the show is it like low low stakes?
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Were high stakes?
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yes, it was like, oh my god, they I gotta
I gotta go. The dad will think I'm I'm in
their bathroom and they're gonna think I'm pooing the right
amount of like the the you know, the everybody fighting
for a Olive Garden gift certificate is the right amount.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Of steaks for like a show about high school, So
like that helps.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
It's suddenly the scale of what's happening, and then you
can do funny things because in a high school, if
you do something mildly ribald i e. Like Sultan pepa At,
like a pep rally is going to be scandalous and funny.
You know it's nice and it's sort of like happens
to be Pg.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Thirteen.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
So it's also like it's really funny. But also anybody
could watch it, you wouldn't be like, yeah, it's a
expression advice like that was just never gonna work with
the show.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
So I think that helped us.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
And then it was just sort of also it was
we didn't know. We're like, we just have to do
like thirteen of these. We can like do it in
our sleep. And then like how does it start? Do
we know?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
The Starwood loser like me? So she Rachel learns that
the arts is been banished, so everybody comes back.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
And we do.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
The Rachel Barry project thing happens where is the worst
pilot of all time, and so she gets canceled in
many ways and then you know, goes back to Lima
with her like tab Beteen her legs and learns that
there is no glee Club anymore, and uses her money
(22:27):
from the pilot to like restart the glee Club with
Kurt Yep and Will's teaching vocal adrenaline coaching vocal adrenaline
Yep and Blaine. But my favorite thing, and I feel
like it's very Ian thing, is like when when we
(22:51):
have like an awkward segue into a song, or we
have like how did this character get back here? And
you just answer it really quickly with one like very
self reference line of like acknowledging how insane it is.
You just keep it moving and it happens a lot
this and like the first episode, Darren's just like and yeah,
I'm not really a teacher, but like I'm doing it now,
(23:14):
and so he's head of Dwarfloers.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
I love it well, But.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
I think this was the kind of that's what that's
why the season was fun, That it was just sort
of just a little bit like let's just have fun
and you could just sort of Maybe it's because it
was like that we felt like it was almost summer
vacation or something or that like it was a substitute
teacher and we were just sort of like letting to
do or you were just like we had senioritists I
(23:44):
think a little bit for.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Sure, and we just came through like the hardest year
ever before.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah yeah, I mean there's such a Scanner Darkly version
of like and again it's like the the longevity of
the show versus the tragedy of Corey Monty is dying
is I don't mean to make those a one to one,
but let's say he hadn't.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
I mean, I just do think.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
There's a world where that the show went for ten Yeah, yeah,
yeahs it really could have. So it is interesting to
talk about this other sort of like sort of like
intense Plan.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
B that so ended up being.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
And I think probably seeing I think probably.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
And again this is me I get. I get so
down on the show because.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
It's like in these ways because I was like on
the inside of it. It's very well for me, I
acknowledge it. Like anytime again, I think we've talked about this.
Anytime you bring it up to like a civilian or
somebody who just likes the show, they do not know
what you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Yeah, Like, well here's the thing. So like season five
is a little bit weird.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
I think that like the second half of the season.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Two, we were maybe a little bit hired.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Three didn't quite were, and they're just like you might
as well just be speaking a different language, like you know,
this show's good, So I like I need to always
like remind myself like no, no, no, no, no, you don't
have to be.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Hard on it. Yeah, it's also like a really it
was on a good day. It's a hard show.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, just it's a miracle anything ended up film or
on TV.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
It's expensive, it's a lot of characters, music, it doesn't
not a lot of stuff happens, a lot of personalities,
a lot of personalities. Yeah, it's just like it's a
miracle that it worked at all. Really low stakes kind
of it's a miracle that it worked.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
So it's like all all that saying.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
That. Yeah, I think it by by the end, it
was we were a little bit punch drunk, but it
just ended up being like really really silly and really fun.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
If do you think that shorter season acts. I think
how it does now with most shows that are fewer episodes,
where it does make it more focused or you're not
having to fill twenty two episodes. Yes, like, oh we
have thirteen like you said you do in your sleep,
but we can also make each episode really exciting.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
No, And I think there's a reason why, like those
big orders have sort of like gone the way of
the Dodo. They're just like harder, and it's like the model,
I think a more successful model seems to with it.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
With some exceptions like procedurals.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
That you can watch out of order or whatever, but
broadly it's just like, uh, you can kind of wrap
your hat around. It's so hard, but it's not like impossible.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Especially for an hour long.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
It's crazy to do twenty two.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
It's just a real you have to work all year.
You just don't ever stop. You just call yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Yeah, So it's like so yes, I think that helped,
and I think it didn't.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
You didn't have to.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
There were no her keys where I think there were
in like not in one and two, maybe in three,
four five. There were just a few where you'd be like, op,
I was always just like we should put like a
title card at the end.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
That's just sort of like sorry, like this show is hard,
like tune in next week.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah, yeah, that one missed the mark a little bit.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Did you know that, Like when you were writing it,
could you You're like, you finished the episode, You're like, hmmm,
I'm not sure about this one.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sometimes.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
But sometimes you'd be surprised.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
But sometimes when you're breaking it, you're just like, these
are weird ideas. But then the weird idea is like
really work. And that's the thing with the show like
this that is a little bit weird, and it was
just that was in the dna of it, like sort
of swings and weird stuff that you're gonna have you're
just gonna miss.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Sometimes I think.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Other shows that weren't going as fast or or had
that were a little bit easier you could the It's
almost like the quality control of this show was like
less quality control, and they shot these amazing things, yes
that that were really good that you couldn't you couldn't do.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
On any other show.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
And again, I think I think the narrative that I
kept telling myself throughout in a in a in an
environment where that the ratings kept persistently dwindling, that we
kept saying like, ah, we're not doing it as well
as we were before. And I don't think.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
That's entirely fair.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
I agree now like we're one hundred and something episodes in,
so it's going to be different.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
You're right, I would get.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
I think I expressed my frustration with the pace and
the exhaustion, often with some self self reference and sort
of which I don't know quite why I did that,
and I would do it a lot, and then I
think I thought, I don't know it. Probably I would
probably go back and change that and be like, you're
(29:00):
quit breaking the fourth wall for you. That might be
actually kind of disorienting for an audience member who for
whom this world is still intact and real, right by
virtue of like you know, snarky snarky recaps in Vulture
(29:20):
plus a dwindling rating. I think i'd assumed, like, well, nobody,
nobody considers this world intact anymore. That was the way
I dealt with it, was to be like, oh no, no,
this is still a bit of a house of cards,
but like, look how clever we still are, and look
how entertaining this.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
Show still is.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
Got it?
Speaker 3 (29:40):
I should have been I think we should have been
more confident in the reality of the show, right and
not rely on being like as gimmicky should My big
thing is like we should never met. We should have
never made like Quinn, like Lucy Cabussy, do you remember that?
Speaker 1 (30:02):
You never forget it, But it's like a bit of
a It really undermines the reality of that character.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
It works for a moment, it's a great episode, but
it's sort of if you watch after that, like Quin's
her status totally changes, not.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Like Queen Bee anymore.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
She never recovers for the rest of the show.
Speaker 5 (30:26):
Right, No, she doesn't, Right.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
And it was like, it's stuff like that that I
think we would sort of do routinely that I now,
like fifteen years later, i'd be like, oh, watch out
for those like or be better at buying them back,
or know that you're sort of like selling a character
down the river. Maybe you because you're on the inside
(30:49):
of it, you're not as attached too, but there is
like there's a you're playing with the reality of a
world that for like an audience is is still very real.
But again, I thought, this world isn't as real as
it would have been, so we should play around with
it more like a little bit sort of like breaking
(31:11):
forth wall, like more in the vocabulary, because I think
we thought people would have been there weren't enough people
who were still paying attention, which there were.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
I do think though you. I don't think you were
doing the self referential stuff, for example, too much. In
season six. To me, it felt more confident because the
show started like that, the show's a satire. We would
do that kind of stuff every now and then, and
it felt more like season one to me in the
(31:45):
way that because it wouldn't be belabored where I feel
like sometimes in season five, in some of four maybe
some of those things like we're just hitting it over
the beating a dead horse sort of thing.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
But in season six.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
That was noticeable to me that it was like quick
and like punchy, and that's why I like sort of
sat up. I was like, oh, this is funny, Like
Blaine is saying something like this, I believe it. And
it does feel like that, Like to hear you say
that now about sort of the state of mind for
(32:18):
season six, I totally feel that, right, And you feel
that in every single character where the old and the new,
like everyone sort of feels liberated and lived in and
the new characters feel lived in, but they fit in perfectly.
And it also does feel like we're having to force
these new kids on you, right.
Speaker 5 (32:37):
They like click in.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
What was it like, what was the conversation about bringing
a whole group of new kids in to the school
in the last season, did it feel like, no, question.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Like that's not that much time. I feel like thirteen
episodes and you're getting all propit kids on top of
all of us who are already there.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
I mean, just the fact of the way you said
that like gave me a little bit of stomach ache.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
Just now.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
Back then I would have been like, who are they?
Is it the Twins?
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yes, the Twins, Roderick, Jane who was originally going to
be a Warbler and came over.
Speaker 5 (33:13):
We've got uh.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
And that's Madison the Twins, Spencer who's the out gay footballer.
But like that's right, post post postmodern gay.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Yea yeah, yea, yeah yeah. I like Jane a lot.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
She was fun and she was easy to write towards. Yeah,
the Twins, I don't know that I wrote all that much.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
They were funny, what they're great though, And roderg was
like the new one with like the amazing poice and
it was very brief, but like it gave Rachel and
Kurt yes a glee club, right, and he gave them
the vehicle for them to lead a glee club simultaneously
together as you know co teachers, which I enjoyed, and
(33:53):
they're very funny together.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Like you have to actually, this is what's been wild,
Like no nobody you have to also like teach m
it's a j school.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
And they're very quickly falling into like shoe pattern where
they're not really coming up with a lesson until the
day of because they heard somebody say.
Speaker 5 (34:10):
Something inspired writing something down the ball?
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Did we do?
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Is there more of doing this song where it's like
I just wrote this song.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
But it's like, fully, no, there there haven't been that
many more original songs well that yes, yes, oh yes,
there's fully the like and then Santana and Brittany were like,
we'll show you how to do it, and the band's
ready to go.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
And that's classic.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
But again, once it's sort of baked in that, you're like, well,
this is sort of what the theme of the show
is going to be.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
That's sort of like how we do.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
That's the show's structure. I probably felt less squeamish about
doing that in this season than prior ones.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Sure it feels like that, and Jane has this incredible
speech to Matt about about how he's never even acknowledged
the presence of any of the band and they're just
expected to know all of these songs. And she goes
on this whole round and it's the only sort of
like normal thing she ever says on the show, and
(35:14):
everything she says to Matt, it's just like, yeah that
actually yes, she was like a recap of all of
his horrible things he's done the entirety of six seasons.
It was very good.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
It's really funny, very funny. She's still just she still
slaps still got it. Season five, Season six, as you heard,
was a joozy. I feel better that Ian doesn't remember
as much. It doesn't make It makes me feel better
about myself and how little that we remember.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Oh this whole experience is healing for.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
This reasears Yeah, yeah no, but as you can see,
it was clearly very traumatic and jarring for us in
many many ways. And also like just the I don't know,
it's insightful to hear like his take on and like
not wanting to leave McKinley at all, like.
Speaker 5 (36:08):
I were.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Like that was not our situation is fascinating.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
His mindset of just being like This is a show,
a show about a show, choir like show about a school.
Don't leave the school. So it's fascinating. Anyway, there's a
part two, y'all. Uh, there's more to talk about. Hurt
Locker is a very very large part of that and
we dive, we have to dive deep into that. So
(36:38):
he'll be back next week with Part two. Ian Brennan,
Stay tuned and.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
That's what you really miss Thanks for listening, and follow
us on Instagram at and That's what you really miss pod.
Make sure to write us a review and leave us
five stars. See you next time.
Host
Jenna Ushkowitz
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