May 29, 2025 • 43 mins
Get ready for even more fascinating behind-the-scenes stories about the most unhinged Glee episodes from the man who was in the room where it happened!
Glee co-creator and writer Ian Brennan joins Jenna and Kevin to talk about "The Hurt Locker" Parts One & Two, including how his friendship with Saw creator Leigh Whannell led to Jigsaw Sue, how he remembers everyone treating these episodes, and where his idea for Glee came from. Plus, he reveals how the show should have really ended! Will you agree with his alternative storyline? Listen in and weigh in!
For fun, exclusive content, and behind-the-scenes clips, be sure to follow us on Instagram @andthatswhatyoureallymissedpod!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
And That's what you Really missed with Jenna and Kevin
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to and That's what You Really miss podcasts. Ian's
back Part two.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Baby, we got.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
A part two. Ian is here again. We have more.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Last week if you didn't listen, we talked all about
season five, season going into season six, and now we're
here about to dive into the heart Locker. So let's
talk about the hert Locker. The heart Locker is completely unhinged, Dan,
it is beyond unhinged, especially part one, Part one is insanity.
(00:42):
But then you have Sue on the saw Sue what
do they call her? Jason Jason on like a flywheeler
tricycle coming into an elevator.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
It's it's it's on.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
The premise of that she really wants she really ships
them hard.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
And she wants them to get back together.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Yeah, yeah, no sense, there's no, it's not there's not
even it's not even in the water of what she
cares about. Yes, or like, it's very it's very, very unhinged.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Do you remember where this came from?
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Like, I think the idea of a jig Sue, the
film The hurt Locker had come out, although that's only
even like tangentially related.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
To it totally.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
You know, my buddy Lee created Saw, so I've always
been like severe, like I always Saw. I didn't know
that and Ellen James wand they like made it. It's
like how they like it the most successful, most successful
film franchise of all time based on what they spent
early on and then like how eleven movies. It invented
a whole like genre. It's wild but so so uh
(02:00):
he was like fun fact, Yeah, I just like I don't.
I think it was one of those hair brain like
ideas that Ryan had. Was just like I think she
did really want I want uh, Kurt and Blaine to
be together, and she's gonna try to force them to
like that. That was as much of a premise as
like I would need, and with like a character as
(02:20):
like funny as that, and an and an actor who
could just sell anything.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yes, that's all.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
I remember. What else happens? What's is there? B story?
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Oh there's Sam's getting hypnotized by two.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Hilarious right, like a mentorian candidate type thing.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yes, to mess up clan and to mess with Rachel
so she can get all the Glee club broken up. Again. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's like club.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Yeah, and to return to form, it's just like pinking
the brain again. It's sort of like I take the club.
That's just like what she's that's so funny that that
was like. But yeah, then I just remember basically like
the production value of it was just very It was
just fun. Everybody just laughed the whole time, maybe because
like it was almost like we were doing like you
(03:14):
know how the Simpsons do those Halloween episodes where you
bracket off the world and you're like, this is just
fun and they're short and they don't really exist. I
think that was like that's the sort of fun we
were sort of having with that whole season. But I
think it's really the only episode I remember. Remember those
two from like from season six, the weird like kiss It.
She has a whole she's a false wall and a
(03:36):
storage unit.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yes, yeah, so she opens up the storage unit. She
takes Becky in la car and then there's.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
All of us on like a murder board like.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Jarn, and then behind that wall is like a kissing
booth like shrine to Clan.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
And then later in part two, like.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
She she videos them secretly and like spies them, and
like Becky's like, how did you get this?
Speaker 3 (04:02):
She's like, shut up, Becky, you're ruining this moment for me.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Because it's a full like come what may the dream sequence?
And Becky's like, this looks like a dream sequence. How
did you shut up?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Becky? It's crazy, it's really over the time. It's campy
and like in a way that's like the boys see
the elevator and the new elevator to the auditorium and
they just like willingly get.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
In it as come.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
From when in the elevator and like it's.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Just there's a bathroom in the elevator.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
But they like then she's trapped in there.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, yes, and they're trapped in there with Jigsaw too.
I do wonder, I wonder if you remember. I also
think there's something about when like you, Brad or Ryan
were directing, there's like a certain freedom for like us,
yes do this, Yes you could like just play a
bit more with all of us and change things and
(04:56):
seeing like Jane and Chord together like during those hypnotizing scenes.
And also I think Coord is so underrated as a
comedic actor. I think he's brilliant. Yeah, and and the
he and Jane were doing with the hypnotizer. I'm like,
not everybody can sell that, Yeah, and they were selling
(05:18):
it over and over and over again. And you have
like the board like you know, like the spiraling hypnotizing
thing going out behind them, Like do you remember actually
like working with them like during that process, and we
were both.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Good enough that they yeah, you would. I think we
were just like yeah, I think we were playing so
fast and loose at that point. It was just like
any sort of best idea. One if somebody could come
up with a line or a funnier bid or just
said thing or just as some as you just keep
rolling you just don't call cut right, just I just
will you guys would all do something.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
You could do that, though not every director had that power.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
No, ye, totally, totally. No. It was nice to be
like this line doesn't work like it was. It was
really fun and to be like nobody's gonna fire me
so like it was. You did have that like extra freedom. Yeah,
it was like almost like that what we're describing is
like what I if I And again I don't think
it would have been a better show, But that was
always like what my conception of the show was. I
(06:19):
always wanted to be more that and less soap because
I didn't care about that. I didn't care about like
are they to get which is which is bad because
you want things that are funny to have heart, so
you eat something like that. But I was like, I
think I would have left my own devices. The show
(06:40):
would have feared much quicker into that kind of a
world where it was just sort of overtly funny. And
I think I was always pushing that even from the beginning.
There's even lines that I wrote in like the there's
a line in the pilot for the second episode when
(07:01):
like Terry's having a hysterical pregnancy and and then it
turns out but we wanted to be the joke like, no,
you're not pregnant. You've just been like eating a lot,
that's why, and you have hysterical pregnancy. He's like, yeah, yeah,
look at your sonogram, like like in your stomach there's
a chicken wing. You must have swallowed a hole, which
(07:23):
is a great joke, but it's like that's what, that's
not real, right in the fact that you I was like, Oh,
that's the but that's always the thing I would and
then like yeah, oh, that's like the line I would cut.
That's like a not work. That's a different show. And so, like,
I think what was so fun about six for me
was it was sort of at that point it was like, oh,
this is the show I wanted to do the whole time. Wow,
(07:47):
its like kind of dumb because like show choir is
kind of dumb, and it's and there weren't any You're
not really shipping anybody seriously at that point, everybody everybody,
So even the relationships could be could be like, uh
(08:07):
like grounds for jokes, right, like you're constantly undercutting. So again,
this would be like not as successful as show. It
would have gone for like one season and then would
have been like, well that's it was like a that
show got really weird. That's what's so funny is that
it find that we were finally able to just like
(08:27):
get weird and somehow clearly like also I think True
Detective was happening. Then that had to have been what
the what the the Yes, all your photos on a boat,
like there's all these weird inputs at the time. Yeah,
we're just really anyway, that's very funny. So yeah, and
(08:47):
then right, and then a weird bathroom in.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
The yes, there was a bathroom in the elevator. And
also there's something about how everybody's I don't know what
how everybody's performing in the episodes, Like I'm just thinking
about like Chris noticing the bathroom where there's like a
because I think maybe what you're saying is like you're
like throwing everything at the wall, like you're just having fun,
(09:13):
and everybody is like playing it more grounded. Yes, and
so everything works because there's some episodes before where I think,
depending on who's directing it, the acting sort of is
encouraged to go too far into what that that may
be crazy.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Yeah, the more absurd a situation, the better ground. I
remember asking you guys a lot to be like I
would ask you guys to smell the fart a lot. Yes,
just clocking like that's weird, that doesn't seem right, and
that's all. That's as much as you want. Like then
it to me that I like, the situation is weird,
but we're watching the characters have to live in the
(09:51):
situation rather than everything just going off to even though
off to Mars it certainly goes, but there's sure for me,
there's some difference. One is one version of that is
really funny and the other is like unbearably bad.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yes, absolutely, and that's a fine fine line to walk.
You did you directed her Lucker Part one? Babs did
part two, which I thought was funny, but also somebody
who knows the show so incredibly well, Yes, and to
pull those storylines off, I think you need that.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Yeah, it's so funny. What happens in the second part.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
The second part is the elevator Elevator Okay, okay, the
first part is the Discovery. Yes, but is the first
one where she does a thousand miles yes on the
piano you have to know, like, but it's just like.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
That was really good. Those are things about the show
is you're app times are just recreating music videos, which
is uh fun and not as hard as you would
think because, uh, these goods don't always have like an
enormous budget. They're doing things that are usually practical and
you can mimic them.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Oh and bitch, which was so weird. And when she
comes out in the file cabinet and she's her comes
out of the like when that bitch started happening, I
was like, oh, okay, I know where we are now.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
It it clicked in for me.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
The second part was also when they go and they
find suits emotionally what do they call it, like the emotionally.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Emotional triggering playst.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Triggering playliss and it must have been love father figure
and all out of love and they perform all of them,
and she grew.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
An invitational and so then Warbler's new directions with like
three members and vocal Ajorenaline all have to perform, and
she changes the rules after one of them has already gone. Yeah,
because hert locker part one ends after vocal Adorenalins performed,
and then we go to yes and then the top
(12:15):
of to the rules change, it's Warblers the new Drag.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
It sounds like you're describing a dream that you had,
which is what's so fun about it. I mean, even
though I hate nobody, nothing's worse than hearing somebody talk
about their dream. Like, it's so funny that that that's
exactly like what it just it's like all kind of
logic is out the window.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
And then Sam and Rachel like a form of budding romance. Yeah,
that happens as well during that, which is crazy is.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
That the first time that happened. I'm surprised that it
took us that long.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah, it is the first time it is and
it works.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
That's some things like you were saying, like if you
were left to your own devices, it would have just
been let's say, like hurt Locker Part one all the time.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Yeah kind of, but that would be my it would
be my my reflex. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
But in amidst all that, there still is always like
there's this nice even though it starts out as a
joke between Rachel and Sam, they have like a really
sweet budding romance. And then like right after this we
go into the transitioning episode, you have like one of
the best things ever with three people on stage singing.
(13:24):
So it's like you still managed to and also that
episode has craziness in it as well, but like you are.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
Guit artist. No, it was like that. It was we
did it. I mean it was so interesting. It was
so prescient and not prescient, but like a bit ahead
of the cultural moment where we did like a bathroom episode.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
I think that's yes, we did that already, Yes, already,
yeah we did with Alex Knowle with.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yes, it has felt.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Question marks on it, and then it.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Has felt very strange watching this now I'll.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Bet well it was like this is for that moment.
I mean it was at the sort of like beginning
of that moment. I remember doing for the trans choir
stuff like a lot of research. It was like just
like oh, what is what is this movement? And even
what is it to be transgendered? It was really interesting
and that for that been not like we were ahead
(14:24):
of any time. We were ahead of I think generally like.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
We're not culturally, we were ahead of the movement.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Sort of like like really being culturally front and center
for about.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Hours for sure. But I when has a three hundred
transperson choir been on TV?
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Before since?
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:44):
Yeah, that's so funny.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
No, I know, it's crazy. And Rachel moves out of
her family home like the Dutch house and you guys
do the party in the basement where you all sing
your songs.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, but she just comes back. She during the first
episode back from s at six. That's another thing. It's
just like throw it in there, like, oh yeah, gay
dads are getting divorced or selling the house. What so funny.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
It's a really interesting season and you just put like
a real finger on it. For me, what was it like.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Like wrapping it up and doing like two thousand and
nine and the final episode, like writing those.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
I don't remember the final episode. I have to be
reminded of what it is.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
It's that's not what I Dreams do come true, dreams
come true, dreams come true.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
I remember the I remember the production of it. I
remember the shooting days. I remember the sets being torn down.
Oh god, I remember that that auditorium set being torn down.
It was all much more like you guys and yes
and the production rather than like writing I have no idea.
I was going to ask you guys, like how did
we end up?
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Well two thousand and nine, we flashed back to the pilot, right,
we do all the like scenes we didn't see the
pilot right, which I loved.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Oh that's a good idea.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I think it was like which one was going to
go first or second, like two thousand and nine, and
then dreams come true, and then dreams come true. We
fast forward to where everybody is so like Rachel wins
to Tony, she's pregnant already in TEENA end up together.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Every reason New York, like a lot of people are
in New York.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I love those two.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
By the way, again, this is like, this is not
This is the whole point of show choirs that like,
it doesn't. Why it's always been funny to me is
that it doesn't end up in like you don't like.
That's what's interesting about That's why it's that's that's the
thing I'm talking about, is that like it's it's about
(16:55):
small town dreams, right, you know, so you want it
to be like the You almost wanted to be like
you know, you guys never leave time. I mean, we
would be so past that it wouldn't work. It would
be a bummer, but it would be like I would
want to do like, oh no, if you're gonna do
a heartfelt moment to be like no, you guys are
(17:17):
like flashboard. You guys have a kid and here she
is doing show Cara and you guys wish you were
up there, you know, like at a checkout counter and
then like, uh, you know, a stupid job and don't
stop believing comes on or whatever. It's almost that there's
(17:37):
a melancholy to what was so weird about show choirs
that it doesn't it stops after high school?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Right, it would be like if the new kids come in,
like oh yeah, it wasn't there that like Rachel Barry girl,
whatever happened to her? Right, and like that's it.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Yeah, it's a little bit more like that, but for
our purposes, it's better to see you want to like
give these churches a good center.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Dream. Well, given that, now that you say that, what
do you think about the whole Rachel Berry storyline getting
to Broadway? Obviously we kind of had to do that,
but then so quickly she goes off and does a
pilot and leaves her Broadway dream, and then the pilot fan.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
We're talking about it for five seasons, so I know, well.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
It's because we clearly didn't. You don't want her to
get her dream, which why she probably should have done it.
It's that same thing the second we have her dream,
we have to ruin her dream totally.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Because like that's what you guys it very really fast.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Yeah, it's about like aspiring to things and not achieving them.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Not not so interesting.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
That's what to me is.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
It's interesting to watching.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
About watching a show choir, You're like, if there's something
inherently tragic like baked into to it, you're like, oh,
this is done, like after your senior year, like you're
going to become a finance major. Like at back, your
performing dreams are over unless you want to take it
to a cruise ship or like performing arts college or
(19:02):
you know, go to a concert, which we kind of
tried to do, but it was like there, it doesn't
it like ends there. So I think that's why you
want to get again. It's a good episode to be
like she's on Broadway, but then you're on Broadway. She's
she won, so we have to buy it back that
then like no, she fails again and then has to
come back back to square one. You're like, well, that's
(19:23):
what it's all about, like getting them back to square one.
It's these like if not being able to get out
of your you know, there's the reason why the first
season is so good because they lose. You want to
lose at the end. And it was like, so it's
like it's a hard it's a hard show to like
end for that way because you don't want to end
(19:44):
it a down note, but you do want to end
a down note kind of.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Well, it's also true. Jenna and I. At first we're
like why is this happening? Then I was like, well, Jenna,
half this cast was from Broadway you included, so you
all did this, Like this Storytine is very Real's you
all abandoned what you had spent your lives cultivating. That's
my Broadway career at the first sniff of TV, like
(20:08):
see Yu lates, How did it.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Feel for you guys watching the end of it because
you're has it changed how your experience of the show? Yes, feel.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Definitely, because I think, especially for seasons five and six,
I am very much like you were. I would apologize,
I would over explain you, like, oh, you know it
was it wasn't our best, but you know it was
like Joe probably should have ended after four, but like whatever,
(20:57):
and then it started with and I don't say this
just becase because this is what we're doing. But at
the end of all of these seasons, we like have
like Q and A's with fans right in and things
like that, and it's been so heartening and encouraging to
hear that we're like, Okay, what should we exeason after season?
And they've they're the people that you're talking about, where
(21:20):
like they still care that world is intact, and they
do understand the show, and they do understand these characters,
and they love season six for all the reasons why
you love season six, and so in our in season five,
like they could find like, sure, some of the story
was all over the place, but the performances were better
than ever, Like the musical numbers were incredible, and then
(21:43):
the New York part was a different show, but it
was also really good. It just wasn't Glee, but for
whatever whatever it was, it was excellent. Yeah, And so
like being able to for my own peace of mind,
I guess or whatever, being able to to experience that
and feel all the things that you had already talked
(22:04):
about of like, oh no, they you guys really did that.
Like you guys somehow wrote these seasons during this like
tumultuous time and like made some really great TV. And
so it's been nice to see that. And it's also
been nice to hear from people who feel so positively
about them. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, I feel like oftentimes, like when you talk to people,
not our fans on this podcast, but like outside, people
are like, oh, yeah, well the show after season three
and you're like, yeah, well, like you know it kind
of you know a lot, there's a new cast and
they're like, and that guy.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Died, you know what?
Speaker 2 (22:38):
I mean like it's just that and you're like you're
making excuses for all of it, and they didn't watch it. Yeah,
And so when we watch it, I'm like, it's like
a corrective experience for me in a lot of ways,
because I'm watching the show in a new from a
new lens with these fans who lived in that world
(23:00):
all and lived with us for so long, and like committmently,
we're like, like I made it to the end of
season six, like I was there.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
It was.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
It's just it was corrective for me because we were
so deeply intertwined with the emotion of filming it that
like I didn't watch half those episodes and I didn't
and I watched didn't watch them for reasons that were
like I don't this person this thing right now, Like
I'm not connected to this like it was. It was,
(23:30):
so there were so many things that were such a
disconnect for me that rewatching it with the fans in
mind and with like ten years behind us, it's like
I am having it, am blast, I'm loving.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
It, I'm appreciating it. We were scared to watch five
and six and we yeah, having so much fun watching it.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
I just appreciate it, you know, yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Are you guys glad you got cast?
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Oh yeah, yes, yes, yeah, that was still the best thing.
I Like, it's just I think we are such a
good group, even we do other things like running into
different departments on different shows, and there's still that sort
(24:22):
of acknowledgment of like that deep bond of like ah,
like we see each other a different way like family
sees each other. And for that and also like you know,
Oprah and the White House and tour, like you know,
pretty happy about this, I think.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
As we watch it too, like there was a lot
of obviously there's a lot of misconceptions, which is like
partially why we did this podcast was like to debunk
all the things and all the negativity surrounding the show
because it's so minimal compared to the joy and the
pride and like the like the work.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
That we did and the family we have.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
That like we wanted to kind of demystify that for
everybody and like really dive in. And I just like
I have so many good memories. Every time we get
to another episode, You're like, oh, that that was really
crazy and that story was really and that musical number
is really hard.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
To shoot, but then you're just like laughing through the memories.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Like that was we did that?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
We did that? Yeah, of course I was happy to
be cast. I also think to be on a show
that I loved how sort of like dark and satirical
it was from the beginning, like my sense of humor,
but also the fact that you know, in season six
you can have a transchuir and like a show that
(25:47):
meant a lot and means a lot to people that
had never seen themselves represented and not just like you
have like a token character and some you you guys
had fully fledged like different types of people who had
never seen themselves on broadcast television and they had fully
rounded characters. Yes, yes, and you know, you get cast
(26:12):
in something like I'm happy to get a paycheck, happy
to be employed. I hope it's good, but I can't
I you know, no promises, and not only like was
this good and successful? I could also like be and
still be very proud of it for all of those
things it did culturally, which is like beyond anybody's expectations.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was extraordinarily famous, which is weird.
It's still I think that's the weird thing to contextualize,
you're like, oh, yeah, that thing I did was a
part of is like very very famous in a way
per an individual person kind of can't be or isn't anymore.
(26:54):
And those shows aren't shows aren't famous in that same
way anymore, Right, So it sort of gets out into
the ether and then it gets sort of like named
and defined way and like and then it's another another
thing that like really it would open my eyes now,
is like like critics, criticism, Yeah, is so like like
(27:17):
the show just got savaged week week. It's just by
like because but I was like by like two writers,
two TV recaps. I'm even sure that's a job anymore
five years from now. Like it's just this weird. It's
a weird moment of time. I wish I could have
been less encumbered by this, by the echo chamber that
(27:43):
was commentary about the fame of the show, the all
of that stuff, because like, the show really really worked
for me in the times where we like ignored that
which is a name right at the very end, whereas
I fully don't care whether and that the journalism writer
(28:05):
thinks this isn't the most sophisticated show on the planet
or whatever. Wishes the show were more like yes or whatever,
you know, like it's just like very strange. I wish
I hadn't. I wish I had more of a muscle
to be like or like your opinion, but like nobody cares,
(28:25):
and it's certainly not driving like viewership, like people are
like tuning into that website before, like I'm going to
spend my entertainment dollars this way, Like it's just it's
just commentary. And I wish now I just don't even
I don't out it's like a more healthy way to
do it. But I wish I'd developed that muscle earlier on,
and I think I would have had a much more
holistic view of what the show was at the end,
(28:48):
which was like very fun and very entertaining and quite
funny a lot of the.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Time, totally most of the time, totally yes, you.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Could still I'll bet there's you know, I was always
probably mentioned this before, but it would be like there
would be a moment in not every episode where you'd
be watching it in the hair on the back of
your neck would stand up. You're like, that's not that's
what a musical can really do. And we were able
(29:17):
to do that all the time each other show really
does know, and that in itself is sort of an
achievement to sort of invent a sensation that a TV
show can give you. Is cool.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yes, yes, well, I mean we were there in the
trenches with you and that echo chamber. Obviously different capacities
for sure, But I think for any of us to
have any sort of real context of what was happening,
or any sort of wherewithal to know how we should
(29:54):
handle what was going on there, it was impossible. There
was no way. You know, Ryan had had success before,
but not at that level, and so nobody, nobody, even
at the network, nobody had had that sort of success before,
and so no one was prepared. And like, I don't think,
(30:17):
and that's because it's so rare that it ever happens,
and so like in one breath, it's such a gift
that we all got to experience that. Yeah, but then
now you look back, you're like, yeah, I should have
been done.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
No, I think you guys in particular, but I think
everybody gets a.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Pass for like, yeah, I do too.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
Yeah, remarkably normal. Yeah, it was pretty good for being
sort of shot out of Canada.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
And we all really liked each other. Yeah, yeah, I
still do, like yeah, despite what you know publicly what
people may think.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Still like talking about the show.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah, and we like all are obsessed with each other
and I'll get along, like we can text you to
come on here and you do, which is very nice.
Exactly exactly do you? How do you feel because you're
you started this whole thing? Mm hmm, how does it
feel for you? I guess yeah, a decade after our
(31:09):
last episode and thinking about none of us would have
had these jobs. Ryan's career would be very different, Your
career would be very different. Everybody's.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Yeah, a lot of people, a lot of people are
really my own yeah, every yeah, yeah, how do you?
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I don't know if you ever think about that, You're
not somebody that would be like, you know, I did this.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
Oh no, it feels like an elaborate prank. It feels
like an elaborate, long.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Long term prank.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
It would make more sense if just now there was
a camera crew that was like hah see and that
was the show than any of these than for this
to have been real. I really mean that. It's like
very very weird and very disorienting to think about it,
because they were very tiny, you know, seconds and inches
away from this not happening, and I would have I'm
(32:03):
sure have been I'm a reasonable I was thinking myself
as like a B plus happiness person anyway, and it's
like you're just as happy or not as happy as
you are. But I'm like fairly optimistic, yeah, relatively adaptable
to situations, and I'm usually about B plus happy all
the time. So like I would have had a career,
but it would not have resembled this at all. So
(32:26):
it's really hard. I think for a long time I
felt like I was didn't deserve It was a bit
of survivor's guilt in a way, or sort of like,
oh I didn't deserve this. I like lucked into this.
Then after a while I was like no, no, no.
Rather than being encumbered by that, I was like, I'm
playing with house money. This is like I should. This
(32:50):
is actually great because I'm not as encumbered by like
this was a big gift, but it's still sort of
like in a way, I'm still feel like I'm still
riding the same. The best Hollywood advice ever got was like,
you can't pick your wave. You're surfing, You're waiting for waves.
(33:11):
You just get on the one you can get up on,
and that's when you're riding and you can look over
and see like, oh, they're on that one, but whatever, Yeah,
I'm still riding that first wave in a cool way
that you're like, oh, I'm still standing up, like I
haven't wiped out yet. That's fun. Yeah, that is cool
to think of, But it is like it's hard to
(33:35):
it's other than that, it's really hard to like, uh, contextualize.
It's such a so strange and so wonderful and actually
hard to think of. Like, wow, there you you almost
feel like there's some hand that's reaching down and guiding
or something. It's just like it's too it's so peculiar
(33:55):
a result to have just been random. It's really really weird.
And even that throughout throughout the whole time I do.
I the one thing I would give my credit myself
credit for was I think I remember always clocking that
at least routinely to be like this is weird. I
can't believe this is like and boy, am I like
(34:18):
lucky to be here. It's a fine line between feeling
like you didn't deserve it right and being thankful for
doesn't isn't even all out of the equation. There's no
sure nobody deserves anything we get or don't. You just
get or don't. But no, it's like it's amazing, it's
(34:40):
it's amazing to to to think about that, like.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
The yeah, well I think that.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
When I look back on like the success that you
we've had, all of us have had since then, how
hard we have all collectively worked leading up to that
and now since then, Like you're still the same person
that we met twenty years not twenty years ago, fifteen
(35:11):
years ago.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Okay, same person still doesn't wear jeans like I you know,
you're still that same person.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Like we show up to your birthday.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Party and you're like it's it's like it's just not
And I think there's humility and you're a good person
and you work hard and you put your head down,
and like, good things happen to good people, and I
like to continue to believe that even though good things
happened to bad people do but like, you know, I
do believe that.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
So, yeah, you can.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
Win a lottery. You can win the lottery, but you
always have to.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Keep buying a ticket. Yeah yeah, no, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
The other thing that I always say about you guys,
is that like how hard you guys were just like
asked to work and forced to work. Like I'm sure
that those tours were fun, but I think the first one,
like you didn't get paid.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yeah, like there were some turd burgers.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Yeah, like swallow.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
We sort of got paid for both, but it was
a little better.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Well, there's some moment which remember when they were like,
we'll pay you in a car. Yes, it was that
Chevy commercial.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
You don't want a car, you want money.
Speaker 4 (36:26):
There's like you don't want to get like a Chevy.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Tracks were like no super commercial, we should be getting
three times that I was like money, we never got
the car like that.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
Like you guys always very graceful about which I.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Always well, we tried.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
We could have been a little tall sometimes, but we
all you know, it's okay.
Speaker 4 (36:50):
Not you too, And I don't that's not that is
not My memory of the show was like really, but
that that any behavior or whatever is such a was
such a such a tiny little portion of it.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
I feel like I almost don't even remember any individual. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Yeah, well it's like bigger picture, like I think at
the end of the day, when we're on that stage
doing a musical number as a group, and like there's
just like everybody's there, the crew is there, families have
to like to go home to, and you're like, this
isn't about us, this is about something so much bigger
than me wanting to go home and like have a
(37:34):
roodom to sleep, like you know, like it was just bigger,
Like we were part of something really special and like
that got us through a lot of those times where
it was really hard. But I think everybody really did
have that in mind, and still I think when we
reflect on it, people still feel that way. So everybody
(37:54):
we talked to, grew cast, everybody is just like so
happy to talk about the show, so happy to talk
about the experience, such a good time, trauma bonding a
little bit, for sure.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
You know, we had highs and we had hig highs
and lolos.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
So we're so grateful for you, thanks for coming back
on the show one last time before were.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Rapping so much time with us again and so generous.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
So it's really fun to talk about because I don't
otherwise I don't talk about Is.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
There anything else you want to say about it?
Speaker 4 (38:27):
No? No, Just as you were talking there. I was like,
it is wow, because like I know, because now you know,
I know children, so occasionally now meet people, you're meeting
new adults. Yeah, we're all like lovely and interesting. But
like sometimes sometimes show choir will come up as like
a thing I did in high school but independent of
the show, and no one would know that I would
(38:48):
have any involvement with the show. Yeah, I did catch
my I sometimes will occasionally catch myself of like begrudging
the fact that I did it, feeling a little bit
embarrassed that I was in chow choir. But then I
always no, I know, I always catch myself because it's
a little bit embarrassing and I but then I sometimes
I mean it was a couple of weeks ago I
(39:09):
sort of caught myself thinking and I was like, no,
but it all it all worked out. Even though like
I got, I could have done another I probably could
have gotten a couple more a's than these those two,
you know, like those years in school, and I didn't.
I still have anxiety dreams about it, like my my
(39:31):
actors night marriage, learning choreography and having a always high
school it's super super weird, So I like, don't my
memories of doing it in high school were not not fun?
What a what a magical turn of events that saying
this activity that I could never quite that's stuck in
my crop forever became this thing that is so joyful
(39:53):
and so at the center of like who of really
like at the end of my life, just this big,
big ball experience that will have been at the center
of it all was based on the thing that I
was sort of ashamed of at the time. And we
were terrible and we never want anything. And I was like,
there's one videotape and it's just like it was like rough, do.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Your parents have it?
Speaker 4 (40:14):
They did? It's on VHS, so I don't even know
how you'd watch it, but yeah, me like with a
crew cut and acne doing down you're rocking the boat
and we go. It goes into this like steam heat
or something, and it's fake. It was too hard to
learn how to actually tap dance, so we're all they
talk about was just pretending to. Yeah, so it's nice
(40:35):
that that all ended up. Like it would be cool
to go back in time to that like kid and
be like, yes, yeah, guess what, like right before you
go on, like guess what this is? Gonna be later on.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, Wow.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
It's also good to know that you can even still
have nightmares about your childhood trauma even after having success.
The biggest success based off of wasn't.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
It was just it just wasn't. I would like to.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Quote unquote trump like, it wasn't like like.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
I have the dream of like I didn't go to
class and I have the exam like.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
All the time I had go to lecture hall school,
like I don't know what's you.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
Know, it's always choreography.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Based mine on stage with not knowing your lines. I
got it. And then I've actually been there so.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
Improvise you can't.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Yeah, but you're good at that.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
I just I just left the stage. I just left
the stage. I would actually just exit in real life. Okay, Well,
thank you so much and so good to see you guys.
Love to see you so good to see you're out
at some point.
Speaker 4 (41:46):
Thank you guys so much. I love you both so much.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
I love you, say hi to the fam.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
I will bye.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Oh my god, that felt sad again, No, it didn't
feel sad.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
No, it reminded me of people have been asking me.
You're like, oh, you're getting close to the end, do
you feel sad? It's like we're just watching it, like
you can go watch it anytime you want. I'm definitely
amazing tarrying him reflect upon his experiences because yeah, we
don't get to talk to him about this. That often
made me a little sad. Again.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
Oh not like no, I get it.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
I get it.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
I feel like I get nostalgic when he talks about
the show.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Yeah, in a way, it's such an honor to have Ian,
who's our friend obviously and close, like just such a
wonderful human in our lives, but also like he is
the reason that this show exists.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Yeah, it is. He is the reason he had the
initial idea. Ryan took it and made it into and
I wrote.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Yeah, he wrote the screen screenplay about Glee Club show
Choir that got adapted for with Ryan for.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Fox and for TV.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
And none of that would have happened without Ian Rennan.
So thanks for coming on always so willingly to talk
about Glee.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
We love you, We're nostalgic, we're excited to finish the
end and sad, but also thank you again. Hope you
guys enjoyed that.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Thanks for sharing. That was illuminating. That's what you really missed.
Thanks for listening, and follow us on Instagram at and
That's what you really miss pod. Make sure to write
us a review and leave us five stars. See you
next time.
And That's what you Really missed with Jenna and Kevin
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to and That's what You Really miss podcasts. Ian's
back Part two.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Baby, we got.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
A part two. Ian is here again. We have more.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Last week if you didn't listen, we talked all about
season five, season going into season six, and now we're
here about to dive into the heart Locker. So let's
talk about the hert Locker. The heart Locker is completely unhinged, Dan,
it is beyond unhinged, especially part one, Part one is insanity.
(00:42):
But then you have Sue on the saw Sue what
do they call her? Jason Jason on like a flywheeler
tricycle coming into an elevator.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
It's it's it's on.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
The premise of that she really wants she really ships
them hard.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
And she wants them to get back together.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Yeah, yeah, no sense, there's no, it's not there's not
even it's not even in the water of what she
cares about. Yes, or like, it's very it's very, very unhinged.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Do you remember where this came from?
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Like, I think the idea of a jig Sue, the
film The hurt Locker had come out, although that's only
even like tangentially related.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
To it totally.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
You know, my buddy Lee created Saw, so I've always
been like severe, like I always Saw. I didn't know
that and Ellen James wand they like made it. It's
like how they like it the most successful, most successful
film franchise of all time based on what they spent
early on and then like how eleven movies. It invented
a whole like genre. It's wild but so so uh
(02:00):
he was like fun fact, Yeah, I just like I don't.
I think it was one of those hair brain like
ideas that Ryan had. Was just like I think she
did really want I want uh, Kurt and Blaine to
be together, and she's gonna try to force them to
like that. That was as much of a premise as
like I would need, and with like a character as
(02:20):
like funny as that, and an and an actor who
could just sell anything.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yes, that's all.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
I remember. What else happens? What's is there? B story?
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Oh there's Sam's getting hypnotized by two.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Hilarious right, like a mentorian candidate type thing.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yes, to mess up clan and to mess with Rachel
so she can get all the Glee club broken up. Again. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's like club.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Yeah, and to return to form, it's just like pinking
the brain again. It's sort of like I take the club.
That's just like what she's that's so funny that that
was like. But yeah, then I just remember basically like
the production value of it was just very It was
just fun. Everybody just laughed the whole time, maybe because
like it was almost like we were doing like you
(03:14):
know how the Simpsons do those Halloween episodes where you
bracket off the world and you're like, this is just
fun and they're short and they don't really exist. I
think that was like that's the sort of fun we
were sort of having with that whole season. But I
think it's really the only episode I remember. Remember those
two from like from season six, the weird like kiss It.
She has a whole she's a false wall and a
(03:36):
storage unit.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yes, yeah, so she opens up the storage unit. She
takes Becky in la car and then there's.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
All of us on like a murder board like.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Jarn, and then behind that wall is like a kissing
booth like shrine to Clan.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
And then later in part two, like.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
She she videos them secretly and like spies them, and
like Becky's like, how did you get this?
Speaker 3 (04:02):
She's like, shut up, Becky, you're ruining this moment for me.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Because it's a full like come what may the dream sequence?
And Becky's like, this looks like a dream sequence. How
did you shut up?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Becky? It's crazy, it's really over the time. It's campy
and like in a way that's like the boys see
the elevator and the new elevator to the auditorium and
they just like willingly get.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
In it as come.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
From when in the elevator and like it's.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Just there's a bathroom in the elevator.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
But they like then she's trapped in there.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, yes, and they're trapped in there with Jigsaw too.
I do wonder, I wonder if you remember. I also
think there's something about when like you, Brad or Ryan
were directing, there's like a certain freedom for like us,
yes do this, Yes you could like just play a
bit more with all of us and change things and
(04:56):
seeing like Jane and Chord together like during those hypnotizing scenes.
And also I think Coord is so underrated as a
comedic actor. I think he's brilliant. Yeah, and and the
he and Jane were doing with the hypnotizer. I'm like,
not everybody can sell that, Yeah, and they were selling
(05:18):
it over and over and over again. And you have
like the board like you know, like the spiraling hypnotizing
thing going out behind them, Like do you remember actually
like working with them like during that process, and we
were both.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Good enough that they yeah, you would. I think we
were just like yeah, I think we were playing so
fast and loose at that point. It was just like
any sort of best idea. One if somebody could come
up with a line or a funnier bid or just
said thing or just as some as you just keep
rolling you just don't call cut right, just I just
will you guys would all do something.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
You could do that, though not every director had that power.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
No, ye, totally, totally. No. It was nice to be
like this line doesn't work like it was. It was
really fun and to be like nobody's gonna fire me
so like it was. You did have that like extra freedom. Yeah,
it was like almost like that what we're describing is
like what I if I And again I don't think
it would have been a better show, But that was
always like what my conception of the show was. I
(06:19):
always wanted to be more that and less soap because
I didn't care about that. I didn't care about like
are they to get which is which is bad because
you want things that are funny to have heart, so
you eat something like that. But I was like, I
think I would have left my own devices. The show
(06:40):
would have feared much quicker into that kind of a
world where it was just sort of overtly funny. And
I think I was always pushing that even from the beginning.
There's even lines that I wrote in like the there's
a line in the pilot for the second episode when
(07:01):
like Terry's having a hysterical pregnancy and and then it
turns out but we wanted to be the joke like, no,
you're not pregnant. You've just been like eating a lot,
that's why, and you have hysterical pregnancy. He's like, yeah, yeah,
look at your sonogram, like like in your stomach there's
a chicken wing. You must have swallowed a hole, which
(07:23):
is a great joke, but it's like that's what, that's
not real, right in the fact that you I was like, Oh,
that's the but that's always the thing I would and
then like yeah, oh, that's like the line I would cut.
That's like a not work. That's a different show. And so, like,
I think what was so fun about six for me
was it was sort of at that point it was like, oh,
this is the show I wanted to do the whole time. Wow,
(07:47):
its like kind of dumb because like show choir is
kind of dumb, and it's and there weren't any You're
not really shipping anybody seriously at that point, everybody everybody,
So even the relationships could be could be like, uh
(08:07):
like grounds for jokes, right, like you're constantly undercutting. So again,
this would be like not as successful as show. It
would have gone for like one season and then would
have been like, well that's it was like a that
show got really weird. That's what's so funny is that
it find that we were finally able to just like
(08:27):
get weird and somehow clearly like also I think True
Detective was happening. Then that had to have been what
the what the the Yes, all your photos on a boat,
like there's all these weird inputs at the time. Yeah,
we're just really anyway, that's very funny. So yeah, and
(08:47):
then right, and then a weird bathroom in.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
The yes, there was a bathroom in the elevator. And
also there's something about how everybody's I don't know what
how everybody's performing in the episodes, Like I'm just thinking
about like Chris noticing the bathroom where there's like a
because I think maybe what you're saying is like you're
like throwing everything at the wall, like you're just having fun,
(09:13):
and everybody is like playing it more grounded. Yes, and
so everything works because there's some episodes before where I think,
depending on who's directing it, the acting sort of is
encouraged to go too far into what that that may
be crazy.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Yeah, the more absurd a situation, the better ground. I
remember asking you guys a lot to be like I
would ask you guys to smell the fart a lot. Yes,
just clocking like that's weird, that doesn't seem right, and
that's all. That's as much as you want. Like then
it to me that I like, the situation is weird,
but we're watching the characters have to live in the
(09:51):
situation rather than everything just going off to even though
off to Mars it certainly goes, but there's sure for me,
there's some difference. One is one version of that is
really funny and the other is like unbearably bad.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yes, absolutely, and that's a fine fine line to walk.
You did you directed her Lucker Part one? Babs did
part two, which I thought was funny, but also somebody
who knows the show so incredibly well, Yes, and to
pull those storylines off, I think you need that.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Yeah, it's so funny. What happens in the second part.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
The second part is the elevator Elevator Okay, okay, the
first part is the Discovery. Yes, but is the first
one where she does a thousand miles yes on the
piano you have to know, like, but it's just like.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
That was really good. Those are things about the show
is you're app times are just recreating music videos, which
is uh fun and not as hard as you would
think because, uh, these goods don't always have like an
enormous budget. They're doing things that are usually practical and
you can mimic them.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Oh and bitch, which was so weird. And when she
comes out in the file cabinet and she's her comes
out of the like when that bitch started happening, I
was like, oh, okay, I know where we are now.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
It it clicked in for me.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
The second part was also when they go and they
find suits emotionally what do they call it, like the emotionally.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Emotional triggering playst.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Triggering playliss and it must have been love father figure
and all out of love and they perform all of them,
and she grew.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
An invitational and so then Warbler's new directions with like
three members and vocal Ajorenaline all have to perform, and
she changes the rules after one of them has already gone. Yeah,
because hert locker part one ends after vocal Adorenalins performed,
and then we go to yes and then the top
(12:15):
of to the rules change, it's Warblers the new Drag.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
It sounds like you're describing a dream that you had,
which is what's so fun about it. I mean, even
though I hate nobody, nothing's worse than hearing somebody talk
about their dream. Like, it's so funny that that that's
exactly like what it just it's like all kind of
logic is out the window.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
And then Sam and Rachel like a form of budding romance. Yeah,
that happens as well during that, which is crazy is.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
That the first time that happened. I'm surprised that it
took us that long.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah, it is the first time it is and
it works.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
That's some things like you were saying, like if you
were left to your own devices, it would have just
been let's say, like hurt Locker Part one all the time.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Yeah kind of, but that would be my it would
be my my reflex. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
But in amidst all that, there still is always like
there's this nice even though it starts out as a
joke between Rachel and Sam, they have like a really
sweet budding romance. And then like right after this we
go into the transitioning episode, you have like one of
the best things ever with three people on stage singing.
(13:24):
So it's like you still managed to and also that
episode has craziness in it as well, but like you are.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
Guit artist. No, it was like that. It was we
did it. I mean it was so interesting. It was
so prescient and not prescient, but like a bit ahead
of the cultural moment where we did like a bathroom episode.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
I think that's yes, we did that already, Yes, already,
yeah we did with Alex Knowle with.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yes, it has felt.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Question marks on it, and then it.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Has felt very strange watching this now I'll.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Bet well it was like this is for that moment.
I mean it was at the sort of like beginning
of that moment. I remember doing for the trans choir
stuff like a lot of research. It was like just
like oh, what is what is this movement? And even
what is it to be transgendered? It was really interesting
and that for that been not like we were ahead
(14:24):
of any time. We were ahead of I think generally like.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
We're not culturally, we were ahead of the movement.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Sort of like like really being culturally front and center
for about.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Hours for sure. But I when has a three hundred
transperson choir been on TV?
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Before since?
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:44):
Yeah, that's so funny.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
No, I know, it's crazy. And Rachel moves out of
her family home like the Dutch house and you guys
do the party in the basement where you all sing
your songs.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, but she just comes back. She during the first
episode back from s at six. That's another thing. It's
just like throw it in there, like, oh yeah, gay
dads are getting divorced or selling the house. What so funny.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
It's a really interesting season and you just put like
a real finger on it. For me, what was it like.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Like wrapping it up and doing like two thousand and
nine and the final episode, like writing those.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
I don't remember the final episode. I have to be
reminded of what it is.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
It's that's not what I Dreams do come true, dreams
come true, dreams come true.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
I remember the I remember the production of it. I
remember the shooting days. I remember the sets being torn down.
Oh god, I remember that that auditorium set being torn down.
It was all much more like you guys and yes
and the production rather than like writing I have no idea.
I was going to ask you guys, like how did
we end up?
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Well two thousand and nine, we flashed back to the pilot, right,
we do all the like scenes we didn't see the
pilot right, which I loved.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Oh that's a good idea.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I think it was like which one was going to
go first or second, like two thousand and nine, and
then dreams come true, and then dreams come true. We
fast forward to where everybody is so like Rachel wins
to Tony, she's pregnant already in TEENA end up together.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Every reason New York, like a lot of people are
in New York.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I love those two.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
By the way, again, this is like, this is not
This is the whole point of show choirs that like,
it doesn't. Why it's always been funny to me is
that it doesn't end up in like you don't like.
That's what's interesting about That's why it's that's that's the
thing I'm talking about, is that like it's it's about
(16:55):
small town dreams, right, you know, so you want it
to be like the You almost wanted to be like
you know, you guys never leave time. I mean, we
would be so past that it wouldn't work. It would
be a bummer, but it would be like I would
want to do like, oh no, if you're gonna do
a heartfelt moment to be like no, you guys are
(17:17):
like flashboard. You guys have a kid and here she
is doing show Cara and you guys wish you were
up there, you know, like at a checkout counter and
then like, uh, you know, a stupid job and don't
stop believing comes on or whatever. It's almost that there's
(17:37):
a melancholy to what was so weird about show choirs
that it doesn't it stops after high school?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Right, it would be like if the new kids come in,
like oh yeah, it wasn't there that like Rachel Barry girl,
whatever happened to her? Right, and like that's it.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Yeah, it's a little bit more like that, but for
our purposes, it's better to see you want to like
give these churches a good center.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Dream. Well, given that, now that you say that, what
do you think about the whole Rachel Berry storyline getting
to Broadway? Obviously we kind of had to do that,
but then so quickly she goes off and does a
pilot and leaves her Broadway dream, and then the pilot fan.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
We're talking about it for five seasons, so I know, well.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
It's because we clearly didn't. You don't want her to
get her dream, which why she probably should have done it.
It's that same thing the second we have her dream,
we have to ruin her dream totally.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Because like that's what you guys it very really fast.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Yeah, it's about like aspiring to things and not achieving them.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Not not so interesting.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
That's what to me is.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
It's interesting to watching.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
About watching a show choir, You're like, if there's something
inherently tragic like baked into to it, you're like, oh,
this is done, like after your senior year, like you're
going to become a finance major. Like at back, your
performing dreams are over unless you want to take it
to a cruise ship or like performing arts college or
(19:02):
you know, go to a concert, which we kind of
tried to do, but it was like there, it doesn't
it like ends there. So I think that's why you
want to get again. It's a good episode to be
like she's on Broadway, but then you're on Broadway. She's
she won, so we have to buy it back that
then like no, she fails again and then has to
come back back to square one. You're like, well, that's
(19:23):
what it's all about, like getting them back to square one.
It's these like if not being able to get out
of your you know, there's the reason why the first
season is so good because they lose. You want to
lose at the end. And it was like, so it's
like it's a hard it's a hard show to like
end for that way because you don't want to end
(19:44):
it a down note, but you do want to end
a down note kind of.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Well, it's also true. Jenna and I. At first we're
like why is this happening? Then I was like, well, Jenna,
half this cast was from Broadway you included, so you
all did this, Like this Storytine is very Real's you
all abandoned what you had spent your lives cultivating. That's
my Broadway career at the first sniff of TV, like
(20:08):
see Yu lates, How did it.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Feel for you guys watching the end of it because
you're has it changed how your experience of the show? Yes, feel.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Definitely, because I think, especially for seasons five and six,
I am very much like you were. I would apologize,
I would over explain you, like, oh, you know it
was it wasn't our best, but you know it was
like Joe probably should have ended after four, but like whatever,
(20:57):
and then it started with and I don't say this
just becase because this is what we're doing. But at
the end of all of these seasons, we like have
like Q and A's with fans right in and things
like that, and it's been so heartening and encouraging to
hear that we're like, Okay, what should we exeason after season?
And they've they're the people that you're talking about, where
(21:20):
like they still care that world is intact, and they
do understand the show, and they do understand these characters,
and they love season six for all the reasons why
you love season six, and so in our in season five,
like they could find like, sure, some of the story
was all over the place, but the performances were better
than ever, Like the musical numbers were incredible, and then
(21:43):
the New York part was a different show, but it
was also really good. It just wasn't Glee, but for
whatever whatever it was, it was excellent. Yeah, And so
like being able to for my own peace of mind,
I guess or whatever, being able to to experience that
and feel all the things that you had already talked
(22:04):
about of like, oh no, they you guys really did that.
Like you guys somehow wrote these seasons during this like
tumultuous time and like made some really great TV. And
so it's been nice to see that. And it's also
been nice to hear from people who feel so positively
about them. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, I feel like oftentimes, like when you talk to people,
not our fans on this podcast, but like outside, people
are like, oh, yeah, well the show after season three
and you're like, yeah, well, like you know it kind
of you know a lot, there's a new cast and
they're like, and that guy.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Died, you know what?
Speaker 2 (22:38):
I mean like it's just that and you're like you're
making excuses for all of it, and they didn't watch it. Yeah,
And so when we watch it, I'm like, it's like
a corrective experience for me in a lot of ways,
because I'm watching the show in a new from a
new lens with these fans who lived in that world
(23:00):
all and lived with us for so long, and like committmently,
we're like, like I made it to the end of
season six, like I was there.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
It was.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
It's just it was corrective for me because we were
so deeply intertwined with the emotion of filming it that
like I didn't watch half those episodes and I didn't
and I watched didn't watch them for reasons that were
like I don't this person this thing right now, Like
I'm not connected to this like it was. It was,
(23:30):
so there were so many things that were such a
disconnect for me that rewatching it with the fans in
mind and with like ten years behind us, it's like
I am having it, am blast, I'm loving.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
It, I'm appreciating it. We were scared to watch five
and six and we yeah, having so much fun watching it.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
I just appreciate it, you know, yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Are you guys glad you got cast?
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Oh yeah, yes, yes, yeah, that was still the best thing.
I Like, it's just I think we are such a
good group, even we do other things like running into
different departments on different shows, and there's still that sort
(24:22):
of acknowledgment of like that deep bond of like ah,
like we see each other a different way like family
sees each other. And for that and also like you know,
Oprah and the White House and tour, like you know,
pretty happy about this, I think.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
As we watch it too, like there was a lot
of obviously there's a lot of misconceptions, which is like
partially why we did this podcast was like to debunk
all the things and all the negativity surrounding the show
because it's so minimal compared to the joy and the
pride and like the like the work.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
That we did and the family we have.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
That like we wanted to kind of demystify that for
everybody and like really dive in. And I just like
I have so many good memories. Every time we get
to another episode, You're like, oh, that that was really
crazy and that story was really and that musical number
is really hard.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
To shoot, but then you're just like laughing through the memories.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Like that was we did that?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
We did that? Yeah, of course I was happy to
be cast. I also think to be on a show
that I loved how sort of like dark and satirical
it was from the beginning, like my sense of humor,
but also the fact that you know, in season six
you can have a transchuir and like a show that
(25:47):
meant a lot and means a lot to people that
had never seen themselves represented and not just like you
have like a token character and some you you guys
had fully fledged like different types of people who had
never seen themselves on broadcast television and they had fully
rounded characters. Yes, yes, and you know, you get cast
(26:12):
in something like I'm happy to get a paycheck, happy
to be employed. I hope it's good, but I can't
I you know, no promises, and not only like was
this good and successful? I could also like be and
still be very proud of it for all of those
things it did culturally, which is like beyond anybody's expectations.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was extraordinarily famous, which is weird.
It's still I think that's the weird thing to contextualize,
you're like, oh, yeah, that thing I did was a
part of is like very very famous in a way
per an individual person kind of can't be or isn't anymore.
(26:54):
And those shows aren't shows aren't famous in that same
way anymore, Right, So it sort of gets out into
the ether and then it gets sort of like named
and defined way and like and then it's another another
thing that like really it would open my eyes now,
is like like critics, criticism, Yeah, is so like like
(27:17):
the show just got savaged week week. It's just by
like because but I was like by like two writers,
two TV recaps. I'm even sure that's a job anymore
five years from now. Like it's just this weird. It's
a weird moment of time. I wish I could have
been less encumbered by this, by the echo chamber that
(27:43):
was commentary about the fame of the show, the all
of that stuff, because like, the show really really worked
for me in the times where we like ignored that
which is a name right at the very end, whereas
I fully don't care whether and that the journalism writer
(28:05):
thinks this isn't the most sophisticated show on the planet
or whatever. Wishes the show were more like yes or whatever,
you know, like it's just like very strange. I wish
I hadn't. I wish I had more of a muscle
to be like or like your opinion, but like nobody cares,
(28:25):
and it's certainly not driving like viewership, like people are
like tuning into that website before, like I'm going to
spend my entertainment dollars this way, Like it's just it's
just commentary. And I wish now I just don't even
I don't out it's like a more healthy way to
do it. But I wish I'd developed that muscle earlier on,
and I think I would have had a much more
holistic view of what the show was at the end,
(28:48):
which was like very fun and very entertaining and quite
funny a lot of the.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Time, totally most of the time, totally yes, you.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Could still I'll bet there's you know, I was always
probably mentioned this before, but it would be like there
would be a moment in not every episode where you'd
be watching it in the hair on the back of
your neck would stand up. You're like, that's not that's
what a musical can really do. And we were able
(29:17):
to do that all the time each other show really
does know, and that in itself is sort of an
achievement to sort of invent a sensation that a TV
show can give you. Is cool.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yes, yes, well, I mean we were there in the
trenches with you and that echo chamber. Obviously different capacities
for sure, But I think for any of us to
have any sort of real context of what was happening,
or any sort of wherewithal to know how we should
(29:54):
handle what was going on there, it was impossible. There
was no way. You know, Ryan had had success before,
but not at that level, and so nobody, nobody, even
at the network, nobody had had that sort of success before,
and so no one was prepared. And like, I don't think,
(30:17):
and that's because it's so rare that it ever happens,
and so like in one breath, it's such a gift
that we all got to experience that. Yeah, but then
now you look back, you're like, yeah, I should have
been done.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
No, I think you guys in particular, but I think
everybody gets a.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Pass for like, yeah, I do too.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
Yeah, remarkably normal. Yeah, it was pretty good for being
sort of shot out of Canada.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
And we all really liked each other. Yeah, yeah, I
still do, like yeah, despite what you know publicly what
people may think.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Still like talking about the show.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah, and we like all are obsessed with each other
and I'll get along, like we can text you to
come on here and you do, which is very nice.
Exactly exactly do you? How do you feel because you're
you started this whole thing? Mm hmm, how does it
feel for you? I guess yeah, a decade after our
(31:09):
last episode and thinking about none of us would have
had these jobs. Ryan's career would be very different, Your
career would be very different. Everybody's.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Yeah, a lot of people, a lot of people are
really my own yeah, every yeah, yeah, how do you?
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I don't know if you ever think about that, You're
not somebody that would be like, you know, I did this.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
Oh no, it feels like an elaborate prank. It feels
like an elaborate, long.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Long term prank.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
It would make more sense if just now there was
a camera crew that was like hah see and that
was the show than any of these than for this
to have been real. I really mean that. It's like
very very weird and very disorienting to think about it,
because they were very tiny, you know, seconds and inches
away from this not happening, and I would have I'm
(32:03):
sure have been I'm a reasonable I was thinking myself
as like a B plus happiness person anyway, and it's
like you're just as happy or not as happy as
you are. But I'm like fairly optimistic, yeah, relatively adaptable
to situations, and I'm usually about B plus happy all
the time. So like I would have had a career,
but it would not have resembled this at all. So
(32:26):
it's really hard. I think for a long time I
felt like I was didn't deserve It was a bit
of survivor's guilt in a way, or sort of like,
oh I didn't deserve this. I like lucked into this.
Then after a while I was like no, no, no.
Rather than being encumbered by that, I was like, I'm
playing with house money. This is like I should. This
(32:50):
is actually great because I'm not as encumbered by like
this was a big gift, but it's still sort of
like in a way, I'm still feel like I'm still
riding the same. The best Hollywood advice ever got was like,
you can't pick your wave. You're surfing, You're waiting for waves.
(33:11):
You just get on the one you can get up on,
and that's when you're riding and you can look over
and see like, oh, they're on that one, but whatever, Yeah,
I'm still riding that first wave in a cool way
that you're like, oh, I'm still standing up, like I
haven't wiped out yet. That's fun. Yeah, that is cool
to think of, But it is like it's hard to
(33:35):
it's other than that, it's really hard to like, uh, contextualize.
It's such a so strange and so wonderful and actually
hard to think of. Like, wow, there you you almost
feel like there's some hand that's reaching down and guiding
or something. It's just like it's too it's so peculiar
(33:55):
a result to have just been random. It's really really weird.
And even that throughout throughout the whole time I do.
I the one thing I would give my credit myself
credit for was I think I remember always clocking that
at least routinely to be like this is weird. I
can't believe this is like and boy, am I like
(34:18):
lucky to be here. It's a fine line between feeling
like you didn't deserve it right and being thankful for
doesn't isn't even all out of the equation. There's no
sure nobody deserves anything we get or don't. You just
get or don't. But no, it's like it's amazing, it's
(34:40):
it's amazing to to to think about that, like.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
The yeah, well I think that.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
When I look back on like the success that you
we've had, all of us have had since then, how
hard we have all collectively worked leading up to that
and now since then, Like you're still the same person
that we met twenty years not twenty years ago, fifteen
(35:11):
years ago.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Okay, same person still doesn't wear jeans like I you know,
you're still that same person.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Like we show up to your birthday.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Party and you're like it's it's like it's just not
And I think there's humility and you're a good person
and you work hard and you put your head down,
and like, good things happen to good people, and I
like to continue to believe that even though good things
happened to bad people do but like, you know, I
do believe that.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
So, yeah, you can.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
Win a lottery. You can win the lottery, but you
always have to.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Keep buying a ticket. Yeah yeah, no, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
The other thing that I always say about you guys,
is that like how hard you guys were just like
asked to work and forced to work. Like I'm sure
that those tours were fun, but I think the first one,
like you didn't get paid.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yeah, like there were some turd burgers.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Yeah, like swallow.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
We sort of got paid for both, but it was
a little better.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Well, there's some moment which remember when they were like,
we'll pay you in a car. Yes, it was that
Chevy commercial.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
You don't want a car, you want money.
Speaker 4 (36:26):
There's like you don't want to get like a Chevy.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Tracks were like no super commercial, we should be getting
three times that I was like money, we never got
the car like that.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
Like you guys always very graceful about which I.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Always well, we tried.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
We could have been a little tall sometimes, but we
all you know, it's okay.
Speaker 4 (36:50):
Not you too, And I don't that's not that is
not My memory of the show was like really, but
that that any behavior or whatever is such a was
such a such a tiny little portion of it.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
I feel like I almost don't even remember any individual. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Yeah, well it's like bigger picture, like I think at
the end of the day, when we're on that stage
doing a musical number as a group, and like there's
just like everybody's there, the crew is there, families have
to like to go home to, and you're like, this
isn't about us, this is about something so much bigger
than me wanting to go home and like have a
(37:34):
roodom to sleep, like you know, like it was just bigger,
Like we were part of something really special and like
that got us through a lot of those times where
it was really hard. But I think everybody really did
have that in mind, and still I think when we
reflect on it, people still feel that way. So everybody
(37:54):
we talked to, grew cast, everybody is just like so
happy to talk about the show, so happy to talk
about the experience, such a good time, trauma bonding a
little bit, for sure.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
You know, we had highs and we had hig highs
and lolos.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
So we're so grateful for you, thanks for coming back
on the show one last time before were.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Rapping so much time with us again and so generous.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
So it's really fun to talk about because I don't
otherwise I don't talk about Is.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
There anything else you want to say about it?
Speaker 4 (38:27):
No? No, Just as you were talking there. I was like,
it is wow, because like I know, because now you know,
I know children, so occasionally now meet people, you're meeting
new adults. Yeah, we're all like lovely and interesting. But
like sometimes sometimes show choir will come up as like
a thing I did in high school but independent of
the show, and no one would know that I would
(38:48):
have any involvement with the show. Yeah, I did catch
my I sometimes will occasionally catch myself of like begrudging
the fact that I did it, feeling a little bit
embarrassed that I was in chow choir. But then I
always no, I know, I always catch myself because it's
a little bit embarrassing and I but then I sometimes
I mean it was a couple of weeks ago I
(39:09):
sort of caught myself thinking and I was like, no,
but it all it all worked out. Even though like
I got, I could have done another I probably could
have gotten a couple more a's than these those two,
you know, like those years in school, and I didn't.
I still have anxiety dreams about it, like my my
(39:31):
actors night marriage, learning choreography and having a always high
school it's super super weird, So I like, don't my
memories of doing it in high school were not not fun?
What a what a magical turn of events that saying
this activity that I could never quite that's stuck in
my crop forever became this thing that is so joyful
(39:53):
and so at the center of like who of really
like at the end of my life, just this big,
big ball experience that will have been at the center
of it all was based on the thing that I
was sort of ashamed of at the time. And we
were terrible and we never want anything. And I was like,
there's one videotape and it's just like it was like rough, do.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Your parents have it?
Speaker 4 (40:14):
They did? It's on VHS, so I don't even know
how you'd watch it, but yeah, me like with a
crew cut and acne doing down you're rocking the boat
and we go. It goes into this like steam heat
or something, and it's fake. It was too hard to
learn how to actually tap dance, so we're all they
talk about was just pretending to. Yeah, so it's nice
(40:35):
that that all ended up. Like it would be cool
to go back in time to that like kid and
be like, yes, yeah, guess what, like right before you
go on, like guess what this is? Gonna be later on.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, Wow.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
It's also good to know that you can even still
have nightmares about your childhood trauma even after having success.
The biggest success based off of wasn't.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
It was just it just wasn't. I would like to.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Quote unquote trump like, it wasn't like like.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
I have the dream of like I didn't go to
class and I have the exam like.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
All the time I had go to lecture hall school,
like I don't know what's you.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
Know, it's always choreography.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Based mine on stage with not knowing your lines. I
got it. And then I've actually been there so.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
Improvise you can't.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Yeah, but you're good at that.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
I just I just left the stage. I just left
the stage. I would actually just exit in real life. Okay, Well,
thank you so much and so good to see you guys.
Love to see you so good to see you're out
at some point.
Speaker 4 (41:46):
Thank you guys so much. I love you both so much.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
I love you, say hi to the fam.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
I will bye.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Oh my god, that felt sad again, No, it didn't
feel sad.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
No, it reminded me of people have been asking me.
You're like, oh, you're getting close to the end, do
you feel sad? It's like we're just watching it, like
you can go watch it anytime you want. I'm definitely
amazing tarrying him reflect upon his experiences because yeah, we
don't get to talk to him about this. That often
made me a little sad. Again.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
Oh not like no, I get it.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
I get it.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
I feel like I get nostalgic when he talks about
the show.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Yeah, in a way, it's such an honor to have Ian,
who's our friend obviously and close, like just such a
wonderful human in our lives, but also like he is
the reason that this show exists.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Yeah, it is. He is the reason he had the
initial idea. Ryan took it and made it into and
I wrote.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Yeah, he wrote the screen screenplay about Glee Club show
Choir that got adapted for with Ryan for.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Fox and for TV.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
And none of that would have happened without Ian Rennan.
So thanks for coming on always so willingly to talk
about Glee.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
We love you, We're nostalgic, we're excited to finish the
end and sad, but also thank you again. Hope you
guys enjoyed that.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Thanks for sharing. That was illuminating. That's what you really missed.
Thanks for listening, and follow us on Instagram at and
That's what you really miss pod. Make sure to write
us a review and leave us five stars. See you
next time.
Host
Jenna Ushkowitz
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
True Crime Tonight
If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.