December 7, 2023 • 56 mins
Journalist and author Michael Ausiello routinely got Glee scoops and spoilers for TV Guide and Entertainment Weekly, but who was his source?
Michael joins Jenna and Kevin to discuss his time covering the series, including sharing memories from his time on the set with the cast.
Plus, the trio talks about the loss of Cory Monteith from different perspectives: his co-stars versus a journalist who had to cover the story, how they all felt about the tribute episode, and coming to terms with loss and grief after losing both Cory and Naya Rivera.
In honor of Naya, the Snixxmas Charity Fundraiser benefiting Alexandria House is back for its fourth annual edition. For information and to donate, visit AlexandriaHouse.org/Snixxmas2023.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
And that's what you really missed with Jenna.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And Kevin and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to and That's what you Really miss podcast. A
very very very special episode. Yes, who do we have to?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
We have Michael Asiello who is TV journalist Royalty, worked
for TV Guide Entertainment Weekly and then started his own
company called tv Line and just he gets all the scoops.
He's such a fan of TV and writes really wonderful
(00:39):
things about TV because he cares so much. And he
was such a big part of our show. He was
breaking all kinds of stories. We'd see him on red
carpets and he's part of that Glee family to us,
like Glee Memory.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Who's a strong part of the twitter verse. Oh yeah,
and he's whipping those fans up a trusted, trusted source,
so he also has some sources of his own, that's right.
See if he feels some you enjoy.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Hello.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Oh my god, Hello, you both look amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So do you? I love that haircut?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Great?
Speaker 4 (01:20):
I got it cut just for this.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Oh wow, I had a feeling.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
We appreciate it for that. We love to look at beauty.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
I know I've listened to your podcast you're obsessed with it.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yes, it's all we talk about.
Speaker 5 (01:33):
Really.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I mean we come, you know, dressed in the nines
for our podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Now I can see that. But fashion is off the hook.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
It may not look like it, but Jenna's sweatshirt is
thousands and thousands of dollars.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Wow. Actually yeah, I can see it.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Stains on it, so I can see it.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
And my T shirt's definitely not twenty years old.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Michael Jenna, it's good to see you.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
It's good to see you. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Welcome to our show, Welcome to the Glee podcast.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Thank you for having me. I was so excited to
get the invitation.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Wollvery a very important part of the Glee history.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
I maybe you know, it's funny. I did a little
bit of a deep dog prior to this interview, and
I was going through my Glee coverage over the years,
and let me tell you, there's a lot of it.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
There's a lot, and you're a part of a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
In different mediums as well, because Twitter and Glee sort
of was this beautiful marriage in the very beginning, because
they were sort of blowing up together and then you
were on there interacting with fans daily for lots of shows,
not even just Glee, and you had all the spoilers,
you knew everything.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Well, I think that's really my If my legacy about
Glee is going to be anything, I think, I think
it's the news that I broke during that time, and
the and the spoilers, and because we lived in a
different time back then when like spoilers were like a
massive major piece of journalism. So now, but back then
(03:21):
with with broadcasts, when broadcast was huge, and when Glee
was big, it was like people wanted to know what
was coming up?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Who was your source?
Speaker 4 (03:32):
So now that the show is over and now time
on your podcast, I feel comfortable letting you know that
my source was Are you serious? Do you really think
I'm going, Oh my.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
God, you got me, girl, I'm sweating. I really felt like,
oh my god, we're gonna find out.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
You're gonna find who deep deep Throat.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Is the biggest news we'll have on our podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Ever, I also had a fear that I'm like, was
it me? My memory? So that I'm like, it could
have been me.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
You're fired, Kevin, You're fired.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
You know what I will say is it was It's
not one person. Glee was such a huge show and
there were so many people involved in it that, you know,
information flowed from multiple avenues and.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Sources, and you are and were a very trusted source
and figure, I think in TV journalism, entertainment journalism. So
doesn't that do you think that incentivizes people to come
to you. Because they come to you, they're not going
to some gossipy, slanderous like you do serious stuff reporting
(04:42):
about TV, like you love TV, Like there's such care
and your story about shows and things. So I feel
like people gravitate towards that.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Well, I think it helps it. You know, I worked
for a TV guide and I worked for Entertainment Weekly.
So even if my coverage was cheapy and playful, I
mean it usually was. I mean I did harder stuff,
like I did cover stories and bigger, bigger features, but
but a lot of my stuff was sort of fun
and light and uh, you know, the spoilers were sort
(05:13):
of wrapped in this sort of snarkiness. Uh. But but
I was always backed by a you know, a legacy
brand and a really refutable you know brand, TD Guy
and Team Weekly and then when tv line launched, so
I think that certainly helped, you know, with my visibility
and that, and when people brought me scoops, they kind
(05:35):
of knew that it was going they were going to get,
you know, big play.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Okay, let's talk about the scoops though, because let's just
start there. Yeah, do you have like, do you have
any like memories that stick out of Glee spoilers that
you broke, Like, do you have any that like, well.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Hyber, I remember breaking Darren Cris's casting was a huge
deal because I knew that role. I knew that role
was coming before it was cast, and that was a
pretty big spoiler. And then and then you know the
fact that uh you know he was coming on as
a uh you know, is this character so? And then
(06:16):
I remember breaking that the news of who got the role,
even though Darren wasn't a huge name at the time,
there was so much anticipation about who was going to
be getting getting this role. That was a pretty major
one in terms of spoilers, you know, all the romance stuff,
that's what you know. The although the romance surrounding particularly
(06:41):
Rachel you know, uh Leah, all of her loved dress people.
There was just a readers that were kind of obsessed
with with with that and I and I kind of,
you know, it's it's tricky because you know, one time
you don't you don't want to ever outright spoil something,
you know, so I you don't want to ruin someone's experience,
(07:03):
so you want to I try to always couch it
or frame it in more of a tease to get
people excited to watch the show. And also I didn't
really want to make enemies of Ryan Murphy and everybody else,
you know. So it's like I tried to be a
team player and uh and not not be an enemy.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Mm hmmmmm, No, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I feel like tv Guide when you were there, was
like one of the earliest supporters of the show, Like
we had covers of TV Guide and we were at
the events, all the events, and that was sort of
like our introduction to the craziness that you know, would
get even crazier as the years went on. But I
(07:59):
feel like when that happens, is that your decision, We
were like I want to support this show, I love
the show, we need to do this thing. Or is
that sort of like a brand strategy of like, oh,
the show seems is seemingly doing quite well and is
going to get bigger let' support it early. How does
that work?
Speaker 4 (08:19):
It's a decision above my pay grade. Back then, for sure,
a brand decision. You know, I was off doing my
own thing at TV Guide and Entertainment Weekly in many ways,
like I had my own blog, I had my sort
of you know, my own scoop factory, you know, and
then and then the brand existed sort of outside of that.
(08:40):
But in terms of like covers and particularly covers, those
decisions always went high up. But you know, Glee was
an out of the box smash, so I don't think
people had to you know, the higher ups had to
think too long and hard about whether to quick Glee
on the cover or to get the hid in this show,
(09:00):
because it was a phenomenon, you know, from right out
of the gate, from season one. And you know, back
then TV Guide was a much bigger deal than it
is now in terms of like the zeitgeist. Like if
you were on the cover of TV Guide, that meant
you your show or you as a performer have arrived.
Same thing with Entertainment Weekly, you know, for sure, you
(09:23):
know the peak of Entertainment Weekly. Getting an e W
cover was like, okay, we we are phenomenon.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, it was a big, big deal. Yeah, I remember
those things.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
You know, And then and then obviously you know, you know,
Comic Con, you come around and I did all the
video and your Comic Con and also on the red
carpet at the Emmys, and that gave me an opportunity
to actually meet you, which is really was some of
the most fun is getting out from behind my computer
breaking the news and actually to interact with cast members,
especially fun cast members like the two of you. It's
(09:58):
like it was always it was always just a joy
and a pleasure to interview when you guys were always
game about like throwing a scoop here and there, and
you know, we give each other a ship about you know,
about school. It was just a really fun back and forth.
And those in terms of like my memories of covering
the show you particularly the Comic On interviews, were really fun.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
This morning, you sent me a Comic Con interview that
you're looking and I said it to Jenna and we're like, oh,
I had the same sort of reaction of like, it's
so strange to see it now. It's Darren, Leah, Corey, Nya,
myself and Jenna.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Told me the six of you, yes, and it's like
and Corey and Naya were sitting right next to each other,
and I knew that video existed. And then after Naya passed,
I was just like, I watched it interview again and
I said, I can't believe I can't believe it. They're
both gone. And then you know, I watched it again
(10:57):
in preparation for this interview, and it's just, you know,
it's just so it's so sad. But you know, I
guess bettersweet is it? Bittersweet is the way to say it,
because it is such a fun interview, and you know,
and it was fun to see you guys sitting next
to each other and having your sort of camaraderie. Uh
and but it's like like ten years ago. It's just crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, yeah, no, it was really crazy to watch. Comic
Con was one of my my personal favorite year two
at ten, so I was at all the gleek comic
cons and doing the panel in the ballroom. I was
gladly raising my hand to go and promote the show.
But yeah, that was particularly a memorable one to watch
(11:44):
back because we're talking about the future of the show,
we're talking about what's to come, we're talking you know
there to hear their voices even you know, it's just
you get a little you know, chill down your spine.
But am Coma was special because we also there was
a lot of information also revealed there, Like we learned
(12:06):
the first year at comic Con that Kevin and I
were going to be We're only juniors. We all thought
we were graduating, and we're like, what's happening to our jobs?
Where's this going? Where's this headed? And so we learned
a lot of information because it was the first time
you get like Brady and and Ryan in a room,
you know, all together other than you know, writing these
(12:27):
crazy scripts. So but it was really fun to see
you and and kind of experience like the fans also
in that way firsthand, because they you know, comic Con
is all about the fans, and it's it's a very
concentrated place to experience it and to.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Meet over hand. And what stands out for me by
the interview is you guys knew nothing about what was
coming up in season four, like because you took place
between season three and season four, which I think you
know pretty much at the peak of the show or
right around the peak of the show. But it was
the first summer where you guys didn't have the tour,
like you had a summer off and we talk about
(13:09):
you had you actually had a hiatus. But of course
I'm grilling you about what's coming up in season four,
and you guys knew absolutely nothing. You you were no
help to me. You're no help to me at all.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
I'm not sure that they knew the writer.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I loved how like sort of clunky are dynamic with
each other. Was in like a charming way because we
clearly were like out of sync. You know when you
do a bunch of press and you have your answers
and this question is going to go to this person,
and we were all just sort of like vibing. It
was a little messy, but obviously like we knew and
loved you and felt comfortable with you, so we were
just like goofing around and also being honest about like,
(13:52):
I don't know, I had no idea what was going
to happen.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Well, also, I was watching it, it was just sort of
struck by. There's there was just a nice energy amongst
the six of you. You know, I think Glee sometimes
you get there's this bad wrap of all feuds and
this and that, and you know, if you watch that interview,
you don't get any sense like everybody's interacting, everybody's making
(14:17):
eye contact with each other, joking around, like and this
is three seasons. Well, this isn't going into your fourth season,
so this is this is when you know there might
have been or already were tensions or whatever, but you
guys were all sort of really professional and it's just
a fun energy to be around.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
That's nice. That's a good point, though.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
It is because I do think like post Glee, that's
what's talked about, probably more than anything, is sort of
the negative, dramatic stuff like that, where that didn't really
exist at all, and until it did towards the end,
and that was after Corey passed away, and I think
that was probably the impetus of things just got weird,
(15:01):
and so then dynamics shift people's mindset shift. Being in
the place where we spent the most time with him
every day, you know, it's like a it's a really
hard thing to wrap your head around. And I think
a lot of those quote unquote, I don't know, feuds
or whatever, we're probably heightened or exaggerated because of brought
on because of the external emotional things that were happening.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, but that interview is like that was the dynamic
most days in the choir room.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
With everyone, and not just six of us, there were
you know, eighty of us on that show, and we were.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
People were sleeping or closing their eyes, and you know,
then there's other banter, but that was generally us all
the time. So that was like a little kind of
like view in a peek inside to what it was like.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Yeah, those interviews with you at comic Con every year
were also like one of the things to look forward
to because we did necessarily do a lot of sit
down interviews at comic Con. You have your panel, you
have a bunch of like photo shoots and things, but
like yours, to me, was like the stop that we
always had to do, Like that was the interview we
(16:07):
were going to do.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
You know what.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
That's so nice of you to say, And I really
appreciate that. It's something I hear of and not to
be bostful or whatever, but I do hear a lot
of that from the actors, especially a comic I'm like,
oh my god, this is this is our favorite interview.
Blah blah blah, and can I just tell you behind
the scenes that I'm on the edge of my seat
wondering if you guys are even going to show up,
(16:30):
because especially when I was at tv Line, when I
launched tv Line, it's like I started over in many ways,
you know, I left the EW and like all these
legacy brands existed, and then tv Line, you know, was
writing on me in many many ways in my name
and was not known. So I always we were sort
of like the ones that were going to get cut
(16:51):
if you guys were running late, and of course these
big casts, you know, being carted around San Diego with
under strict time, somebody's going to get cut. And I
can't tell you how many times we were the ones
who would get find out, oh they're not going to
be able to make it. We would be the ones.
So it's like the fact that you guys were there
(17:12):
was just such a relief to me. Like it was
it always felt like a little bit of a battle
to get all those big, high profile pasts in our studio.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I'm sure sure. I mean also, but you built up
such a I imagine too that you had your name
and personally because you had interviewed so many people and
written about so many people that like, your name was
also a big draw where yes, obviously it was attached
to the legacy brands, but outside of that, your name
(17:41):
was also recognizable and associated with, like, you know, the
fun and the care that you put into your interviews.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
The flip side to that is, though, if you're if
it's your name, that is that is sort of driving
at least in the beginning of the brand, and they
reject the brand, they're rejecting you. Oh yeah, or it
felt like you know someone who's sort of an insecure,
sensitive person. It's I think that's really my maybe why
it would accept me when someone would pull the plug
(18:09):
on an interview at Comic conict the last minute, because
it just felt like it was a rejection, a personal
rejection of you. We don't give a shit about you,
not just the TV line. We don't care about you,
even though it's really never quite about that and I
shouldn't take it personally, but anyway.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
But I mean, you were starting a new brand, so
how do you not because you and the brand are
synonymous at that point, right like you are the brand,
the brand is you, and so yeah, and.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Also I'm a hustler and That's the one thing that
I will say that I did enjoy about that. I
like being an underdog. I like I always operate well,
feeling like I am fighting an uphill battle. Not that
I enjoy, you know, showdowns or or arguments with the people,
but I like I like the feeling that of working hard.
(18:58):
I like the feeling that I have to work just
a little bit harder to get Maybe with some other
people don't, you know, get served on a silver platter
or you know, for for who they are, who they
work for, they get it a little bit easier.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
I mean, maybe that's why you resonated with Glee so much.
I'm curious about the first time. Well, I'm curious. I
have two questions for you. What was the first show
(19:35):
phenomenon that you covered? And then what was your experience
with the first time you got the Glee screener? When
did you watch it? Did you watch it with the
world like when you know? Tell me about that.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
So, my first experience covering up phenomenon not as big
as Glee would be Felicity. That was the show that
right before I started, right before I started a TV guide,
I was working for a soap opera magazine called Soaps
in Depth, but I became as when I was at
the Soaps in Depth, Felicity had debuted and I was
(20:11):
so obsessed with this, like I want to cover this show.
But we were a soap opera magazine. So I knew
someone who worked at tv Guide then called tv guide Online,
which the internet was new, so that's what it was,
called tv Guide Online. And so I had a friend
who was who worked for the digital side of tv Guide,
(20:31):
and I asked them, if you need coverage of Felicity,
I would be more than happy to help out there.
And luckily, Jonathan Reiner is his name, he was all
for it. So you know, I'm very in the infancy
of my journalism career writing for a soap opera magazine,
but also getting on the phone with Kerrie Russell, getting
(20:52):
on the phone with JJ Abrams, getting on the phone
with all these people from the show. Because I had
TV Guide attacked. Even though it was tv guide Online
and there was so much unknown about what that was,
it was still tv Guide. So I got access, incredible access,
so uh and it was incredible. I was so exciting
and it's really what led me to getting the job
at full time job at TV Guide was my Felicity
(21:14):
coverage because I went I went all in on that
and I love I loved the show so much. And
you know, it arrived at the time of my life.
I had already graduated college. Show. Uh it came after
that for me. But the character of Felicity I felt
a connection to, like h and and a kinship with
(21:35):
and uh the show itself I just thought was so
well written. So that was that was the first phenomenon Glee. Uh,
you know, and I was thinking about this. I remember
seeing the pilot, watching the pilot beforecause we get screen
it was before the episodes came out. In one of
the advantages of being a TV journalist. I did not
(21:55):
love the pilot. I remember mistately, I did not love
the I was one of those take yeah, I take
and here's here's why I felt like tonally, it was
all over the place, like I was like, is this
a is this one of the Like it's just like
the shifting tones, like you to Sylvester in one scene
of being like this horrible person and you have a
(22:16):
sweet scene. It just to me, it felt and then
the shaky cam. You know, suddenly there's scenes with shaky cam,
It's like, what is going on? Like, I felt like
it was trying to be too too many things that
I didn't quite get it. But it grew on me.
And then I also think that the show grew into
itself and became more confident of what it was and
(22:38):
got better as it went along. But I do distinctly
remember that I was not I was not amongst the
many people who were just like, oh my god, this
is the best show I've ever seen, you know, and
it was different. I'll say that it was absolutely different,
and I had, you know, I had a lot to
offer in a lot of potential, but I didn't. I
(22:59):
didn't love it as much as a lot of other
people out of the gate. But then that as the
seasons went on, I felt that, you know, it felt
like it really came into its own.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
So you're a TV guide online though at that point,
and you're like, oh, crap, I have to cover the
show that I think is like Matt like, you had
to watch it to cover it, And that's why I
grew on you. Otherwise you may not have jumped on
the bandwagon of Glee.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Absolutely if I was just a regular TV watcher and
you know, working in some other industry, I I probably
would not have given it, although I will say once
it became such a phenomenon, I can't I would imagine
an let me chuck back in. Yeah, all my friends
are talking about this. Let me see what I'm missing. Yeah,
(23:52):
but I don't know that I would have immediately jumped
back in. But obviously it was an out of the
box hit, so there and it did well, that's no
thing I'll say. It is like Glee stuff performed so
well traffic wise that it was it would have been
bad business for me to drop the ball. And uh
(24:13):
so some you know, and sometimes I have to think
with that brain too. It's like what is good for
the business whether I love the show or not. And
again I did love the show. I just didn't love
the pilot. And then in later seasons I had issues
just like a lot of other people. But generally speaking, uh,
you know, the main motivator was It's like the audience
(24:36):
was locking to TV Guide, Interesting Weekly and tv Line
for Glee coverage and that was a demand. Who were
more than happy.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
To film sure. Sure, And then we kept our set pretty.
They kept it to a minimum with press on set
do you feel like that, Kevin, Like, there wasn't a
ton of media that was there was it was very controlled.
But you visited a bit?
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Nope, I did not. I believe I visited once. No,
I'm pretty sure I visited.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Memory you were there a lot.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Oh that's so nice.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
I mean, make a handful of familiar faces that we
had on set that were allowed on set that we
actually like, welcomed to see. Right, But that's so interesting.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Well, so one of the reasons why So Tim Stack
did most of the Glee covers and Entertainment Weekly, so
I was the one who would be on set doing
a cover story. I'm the one who's breaking news stories
and stuff like that. Anything. I would think that producers like,
we don't want him on set. He's already got enough sources,
you know, we don't want him, you know, and curing anymore.
(25:44):
Not to say that God was a reason I wasn't
in there. Really just wasn't a necessity for me to
be there because I wasn't doing bigger stories. But I
do remember, and I don't know if it was like
a TCA set visit. I don't think it was, because
I do kind of remember I was I was there
by myself, but I was any in the choir room,
maybe season four or five, and I was there all
(26:07):
day while you guys were shooting choir stuff. I forget
exactly what was going on, but I do remember distinctly
how how kind Corey was to me during that day,
because I was kind of by myself, and you know,
and you know, as you know, there's a lot of
time to kill when you're on SAT and Nice. For
(26:28):
whatever reason, I spent the whole day there, but he
kept checking in on me, and I remember he came
over and we were talking. He had just shot a
movie in Philadelphia that hadn't come out yet that he
was really excited about, and he was talking to me
about that, and really that was my biggest memory from
that day, was just like how lovely keen it was
and one monsters the two of you were. That's really
(26:53):
the takeaway track. I've done that.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
We can cut that out.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
It's fine, this is our show.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
Everybody, honestly, everybody was nice. That was another one of
those days was like I'm not seeing the drama, that's
the tension. I'm seeing a bunch of professional people who
are showing up. They know their lines are doing their
work and like there was I didn't see any any
of that. So I think that was the one time
I maybe stop by to set one or other one
(27:27):
one one more times for like a TCA event or whatever.
But that was the like one meaty day that I
spent them.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Sure that makes sense.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
Corey was always like, come on in.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
He's just so inclusive the amount of.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Times we were late to press things because he was
genuinely so nice and talking to everyone.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
We're late, we have to.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
We have to get out of here, we have to go.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
And you know, I'll say it just about Corey too.
Is I remember when I found out that he had died,
and it was late at night on the East Coast,
I believe hit my late husband, Uh and I were
about to go to sleep, or I had already fallen asleep.
Kit was still awake and he woke me up and
(28:16):
he was like Michael because he knew, you know, he
came to the concert with me. He you know, he
was part of the Glee phenomenon too. He's like, you're
not going to believe this. And I think it was
TMZ that broke it. And I was like, it's liked
midnight or one am, and I'm like in disbelieve, I
can't believe what I'm reading. I'm shocked, I'm sad, I'm
(28:37):
all these things. But then I have to switch gears immediately.
I have to actually write a fucking story about him dying.
So it's like the brain has to immediately shift from
being like stunned, shocked, sad, all these things too. Oh,
I have to actually write about this now. It's my
job to write a story about this person that I
(29:00):
know that I've covered, that I've interviewed. And the same
thing with Naya to a degree. You know, it's like
obviously that she died after the show had ended, but
it's still is a story we covered, that we had
to cover, and it's just that's one of the tricky things,
is just the brain switch of Okay, turn off the
(29:23):
personal and get into the professional mode because you have to.
You have to write the story now, And there are
two different sides of the brain.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, that's really interesting. It resonates to maybe Kevin, you
can ogree your disagree, but like for us, we lost
a friend and we lost a cast mat or and
a character on our show, and so there was a
very very thin line between what you were seeing on
camera in the quarterback and what you were seeing in
(29:54):
real life, right behind the scenes. And I hate that episode,
hate shooting it, hate everything about it obviously because what
you're watching is us grieving a friend. You have a
camera in your face.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
And it wasn't that long after, right, It was like
a couple of months when you shut up.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
It was like three months or two it was.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
It was very maybe two months, very fresh, and it's
I also don't know, like to your point about having
to switch gears and like write about it how you
Then it was obviously the first time for us, for
a lot of us to one lose somebody close to
us and to your sort of a public figure or
the show is this public entity, and so then you're
(30:39):
having to deal with that whole side of it.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Then there are reporters, journalists writing about it. Then there
are people on social media tweeting you or whatever. And
the balance of how do we figure out one how
to like grieve a friend and then also represent this
publicly in a way that is like honoring him and
(31:04):
respectful but also not encroaching on any of us what
we feel comfortable doing. Very weird for you.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Like trying to be respectful but while having to do
a job right to report on it and to write it.
It feels I'm sure it felt very right.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
It's like, when is it When is it okay for
you to start asking the producers how you're going to
incorporate this into the show? You know, it's like and
because that also is a big part of the story.
And as I remember, Corey died right before Comic Con.
Once it was over the summer, it was starting a hiatus,
and it was before Comic Con, and I remember getting
(31:43):
pulled out of an interview in our interview Street because
Ryan Murphy wanted to speak to me. He was speaking
to a couple of journalists I believe about how he
was going to handle Corey's death on the show. And
that was the first time we knew how it was
going to be handle on how it was going to
be dealt with. And you know, I have to say it.
(32:03):
I thought it was beautifully done and was a beautiful tribute,
But it's an impossible situation. I can't imagine what you
guys went through.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, I don't know how any show, you know, there's
a handful of shows that's happened, and like I watched
The West Wing after that had happened, and I was like, oh,
how do they deal with this? And it's this weird.
It is impossible. I think it's a sort of lose
lose no matter what, where there's no proper way because
there's no real way, especially on a TV schedule, to
(32:39):
like separate that real life event from a fictional character
event because you're grieving in real time and you're shooting
five days a week, sometimes six days a week, and
so there is no sort of separation at all of anything.
So it's a weird, weird thing. But I will say,
(33:03):
though you're writing about these tough things, which you wrote
about your relationship with your husband, Kit was the is
one of the most phenomenal books I've ever read. And
then that movie that came out, Boy, like you can
(33:26):
write your damn face off and like share like these
really hard to talk about things. Reading that I think
also helped me, you know, go through these hard grief
stages of grief and things like that and thinking about
the past. But if anyone has not read your book,
(33:47):
spoiler the hero dies, it's unbelievable. And see the movie
just ugly cried through both of them. I made all
my friends go see the movie. I was like, you
give me that book, Yeah, thank you sent it to me, like,
thank you for Like, I'm just it was.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
Here for the support. Let me just say, it's like,
when that book came out, you were so lovely. I
think you even moted it before you even read it.
And then when the movie came out, You're just I
don't take the support for granted. I really appreciate it.
You've been always so kind to me with with my
(34:28):
career and uh, and I'm just extremely grateful.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
So thank you, Kevin, I mean more than welcome. You
do not need to thank me, because it's also just
like it's beautiful. It's a beautiful piece of work. The
movie is also equally as beautiful. And as a genuine
fan of the book, I was also you know, so
I was like, what is this movie going to be?
(34:53):
Am I going to get the same feeling? And did
and it felt like such a great translation of the
book onto the screen. And how I mean, what was
that process like for you going from one deciding to
write this book, have the book come out, and then
have a movie with you know, Jim Parsons and Sally Field.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
It was so many things like but as I sit
here now a year out from the movie having come out,
it almost doesn't feel real. It doesn't feel did it happen?
Like did all that? Because you know, this past year
has been challenged for me. It's been really different, like
a morning period because after kid died, I started writing
(35:37):
the book like three months late after he died, or
maybe four months, because my biggest fear was if I'm
going to do this, I need to do it quickly
because I'm not going to remember like the little the
little things like the conversations, mannerisms like and to me
it felt like if I were if I was going
to do Kit justice or come close to doing justice
(35:59):
to him, I need to remember those details. So I
had to start right right away. But you know, the
book led into the movie, and that was over eight
years of my life. That last January came to an
end and was essentially over and and it was a loss.
(36:20):
It was it was a loss of this experience, this
incredible experience, life changing experience. It was a loss of Kit.
It was you know, I was able to hang on
to him for those three eight years professionally, through the book,
through the movie. He was with me for all that
and then he's now gone too, Like I had nothing
to nothing is you know, sort of tethering me to
(36:43):
him other than memories. But it was this past year
has been about letting go and moving on in many ways,
you know, professionally, emotionally, personally. You know, I was going
to ask you, you guys, not to say it's the
same thing. But when Glee ended, did you guys have
(37:04):
a period of where you're like, oh my god, I
just went I just went through this incredible, once in
a lifetime experience and now it's over. I'm sure this
was some relief to that, like, oh we made it.
I'm alive, I survived. But also did you have a
period of, like of mourning of the experience?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
For me, I did years later.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
I think a lot of us, I think buried ourselves
in work immediately, Like Jenna moved back to New York,
I went to London and we were just sort of
the show's done. It was really hard on us and
emotionally physically, let's like geographically get as far away as
possible to do something else. And then it wasn't until
(37:52):
those new things faded away that I think we all
sort of had this realization or maybe it was a
morning period of like, Wow, we worked really hard for
a really long time and experienced this crazy thing. And
I think even still to this day, those things are
(38:14):
still coming up for me when I'm in different situations
or meeting new people or different groups of friends, and
the things I'm interested in are not interested in, are
wholly affected by that experience. I think where it's like,
we went through so much in such a pretty like
short amount of time, life changing events that there's no
(38:35):
way that those ripples don't continue I think for years,
decades afterwards, and.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
So time in your life.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah, so I'm still learning. I think about that, and
every now, you know, doing this talking to different people
who had different interactions with the show. I think that
sort of maybe is judging up a lot of that
as well, and in a good way. I think you
do sort of have to. It's good to work through
it and think through it and deeply about it, as
opposed to maybe what we initially did, which was physically
(39:08):
literally run away from it.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Yeah, no, we actually did. I think there was a
it was a distraction period of like I'm done, I'm good.
Get me out of here, Like I moved back to
New York's it get me out of LA because that's
the only thing that I associated Los Angeles with was
with Glee. So I called it a gree talks, and
I went home. I worked on other things. I saw
my family. And then when the work slowed down and
(39:34):
nobody wanted anything to do with us, Like no casting
rooms wanted to see us because we were Tina and Artie,
like it was a very hard thing for them to separate,
which makes total sense. And then there was all these
emotions that I think were unresolved from feeling I don't know,
(39:58):
I guess not, I guess over worked or underappreciated at
least for me in some of these moments, and never
being able to actually vocalize that and just walking away
as an actor saying, I say, yes, I do my lines,
I you know, show up on time and I go home.
And so there was like a reckoning period. I think
(40:21):
after Nia died, that was a huge reckoning from a
lot of people, you know, Ryan, for us, for us
with Ryan, because Ryan really didn't talk about Lee, you know,
after all of that.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
I know when he did your podcast. I was so
surprised pleasantly like, yeah, I was like I was so
happy for the two of you because I knew what
that that, what that endorsement, and what that that that
publicity and visibility would do for your podcast. But I
also was like it just made me feel good that
(40:54):
he was at a place where he was like I'm
ready to talk and to the two of you. It
was just really nice all around.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
No, agreed, Agreed. We're very grateful for that and for
him and to be in like a just a healing
place with everybody in the show now. But you know,
it took how long, like how long has it been
since we finished twenty fifteen? Was it?
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Yeah? But I think it sort of takes unfortunately, or
it took a really another horrible event to happen to
sort of like okay, you guys, like life is too short. Yeah,
we and as you know, bringing you back to that
interview that we talked about a comic con where you
saw the joy and like the love that we all
(41:38):
had with each other where it's like, I think we
got caught up in sort of the media scrutiny of
the show postally, and that altered everyone's opinion of the
show for us ourselves, which is a weird thing to
experience because it's like, well, no, let's we had a
great time. We made connections with people, and just like
(41:59):
people do it any co working space, you know, where
you find your people, the people that you're obsessed with,
they become family. And we were obviously spending fifteen sixteen
hours a day with each other, and like, let's remember
those things because we're losing people that we love and like,
we can't be doing this anymore. And so I think, luckily,
(42:20):
out of a horrible situation, we found I think one
of the only positive things that could have come out
of it. And luckily it was a all hands on
deck sort of approach, because I mean I talked, We
all talked to everyone, and I had people who are angry,
and because it's just sort of brings up all that
(42:41):
stuff where where it's unrelated in a sense of like
Nya passing away was like this horrible tragic thing. Why
are people talking about Glee? Like why are we talking
about this thing that happened so long ago? Still and
for whatever reason, we were talking about it, and like, okay,
let's this out. Let's figure this out now because we
(43:02):
can't do this.
Speaker 4 (43:09):
That the most uplifting podcast.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
This is welcome to our therapy catch.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Yeah, well you know what I will.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
I will say that it's something about loss. It's so
it's so universal, you know, It's like it's one thing
that I'm reminded of when people reach out to me
about the book or the movie. It's like mostly it's
like I went through this and it helped me get
every No one is immune to loss, and I think
(43:39):
it's one of the things that binds us together, uh
and sort of a connected fissue. We are experiencing that
loss and grief and we all go through it, and
I don't know, it's actually I enjoy talking to people
about their own processes journeys with loss, and I inevitably
(44:03):
learned something about them, but also just about the greeting
process as well.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
I think that's also why I'm just like so constantly
in awe of you and the book in the movie,
because to be able to voice that, to share all
these like incredible moments of your relationship and the hard
moments for somebody to do that, to put themselves out there,
to put that down on paper. So the rest of
us can not only learn about your story, but then
(44:31):
learn about ourselves and also how we can deal with
grief and also like it is the most universal experience
of life. Yeah, and once you are affected by it
or impacted by it, you're part of this really shitty club.
But you know there are everybody at some point will
(44:51):
be in that club. And it's nice to be able
to find something for me. I guess it was your
book really of starting a dialog and feeling comfortable about
talking about that or working on it with yourself, And
so I think that's why I'm always drawn to it
and always bring it up every time I see you,
because it's just like a really impressive feat and the
(45:12):
world is better off that you put yourself out there
in that way.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Are there any shows right now that you're obsessed with?
Because you have some great taste.
Speaker 4 (45:34):
You know. I think that the titles I'm going to
spout off are not going to be surprising to anyone.
But The Bear is just the most incredible show. Succession
and White Lotus. You know, I'm a big HBO geek.
You know, so much of their programming. I loved Barry.
(45:55):
You know, HBO just has such an incredible track record
of God, they just have so many great things, and
they had such a great run for so many years.
It's like it feels like all my favorite shows were
on HBO. Oh. For All Mankinds on Apple TV Plus,
which is a little show that doesn't get nearly enough attention,
and their new season, season four is out now, and
(46:18):
it's just such a beautifully, smartly done show about space,
outer space and astronauts, things that I'm not particularly usually
interested in. But you know, at the end of the day,
it's a soap opera, though, you know, all these Successions,
(46:38):
it's a soap opera. Yeah, you know. And I'm a
kid who grew up obsessed with soap opera, and really
that's just continuing storylines, surrealized storylines. So I'm a I mean,
I'm a sucker for a good soap opera. And some
of the soap operas a little more high brow than others,
you know, you know, Succession is certainly one of those.
(46:58):
For All Mankind is one of those, but uh, and
Felicity was certainly, uh, in my opinion, one of those
with those as well.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Yeah, I love Felicity, Love Felicity.
Speaker 4 (47:09):
I wanted to be Felicity. I mean I was Felicity
one year for Halloween. But the short, the long hair scene,
it's on my Instagram scene, but it was it was terrifying.
It was terrifying. It was terrified. Everybody was terrifying. But
that's what Halloween is. That scared people.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
But yeah, you know who can make a good TV
shows that Carrie Russell. I mean that track record she touches,
it's goll Diplomat is like my favorite thing.
Speaker 4 (47:42):
Oh so good.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
The Diplomat really all the boxes for me.
Speaker 4 (47:49):
And that surprised me because and I told Perry this myself.
It was like the trailer. I did that love the
trailer because again, there was a total thing with the trailer.
It was like slapsticky, you know, and that's not the show,
and there is comedy in it, but it's layered comedy
and it's it comes out through character. The trailer did
(48:09):
the show no favor. So I had very low expectations
going in, even with the presence of Perry. So I
was so pleasantly surprised where I was like, this ship
is good. It's like your seat, yes, and I'm so
happy it.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Was for New It's like if Aaron Sorkin wrote something
a little lighter, Yeah, right, just a little less dense,
and yeah, I love it. I love a good political
And she's so good.
Speaker 4 (48:36):
She's so good, she's the role. And you know, it's
so funny you say something about the haircut. This is
something I talk about a lot, is the seasons been
the season two haircut. When the pandemic happened and we
were like looking for things to write about because there
was no television on. I went back and I revisited
Felicity season two, the famous haircut season, and because I
(49:00):
wanted to do a defense of not just the haircut,
but of this season as a whole, which was overshadowed,
marred by this this incident. And I think there's all
anyone thinks about, like the sophomore slump. She got a haircut,
and then the ratings went down, Well, the ratings went
down because the show moved to a new night, not
(49:21):
because of the haircut, but that's a better, snazzier last
your headline to do that the headline killed the show,
which not happened, but anyway, I rewatched all of season
two and did this sort of deep dive into why
season two was even better than season one in my opinion.
You know, I threw down. I was like, yes, the
(49:43):
haircut season is actually the superior season of Felicity, and
here's why. And let me tell you it holds up
season two. I would if you want, and you want
to go back and watch any season, go back and
watch season two. It's phenomenal. And the haircut made sense
in ca the character's world. It made sense regardless of
(50:03):
the bullshit about whether it was the smart decision for
the publicity, for the show or for Kerry. It was
like a character in college doing impulsive things. It made
sense for her to do that, especially coming off of
this romantic drama. Anyway, this isn't a podcast about Felicity.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
It can't be, but it can be.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
But it also felt like the publicity I remember it.
I didn't watch all Felicity, but like I watched it
much later in time after it was, you know, airing live,
and that was the memorable moment for me. It was
like she cut her hair, like all the process everywhere,
I don't know what they're talking about.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
I feel like it's akin to like it's such like
a non thing, like she cut her hair. It's like
when Obama wore a tan suit'. That's all we have.
That's the only negativity we have to say about this show.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
It's pretty good.
Speaker 4 (50:52):
Well, I think the fact that the ratings went down
in tandem with the hair but it gave people a
store a narrative. It was like, oh, she cut her
haircut and the ratings went down, But everybody forgets the
reason the ratings went down was because it moved to
a new night, and I think it was opposite friends, like,
I think it was Thursday night that it was, so
(51:13):
it was I think I think, don't don't quote me
on that, but I think it moved to a much
more competitive time. Stuff. But I will say one thing
I'm super proud of is that haircut reference made it
into the movie. And I'm so happy. Our first date,
Michael and Kit's first date. He mentions Felicity is his
favorite show and all he knows about Felicity about the
show where the haircut almost got the show canceled, And
(51:35):
then I sort of give him groth about that. But
also at the end there is a clique from Felicity
and a very memorable point, and I'm so proud that
we got that in there and we were allowed to
use that because just personally, that show means so much
to me.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
Yeah, it's beautiful. It's just like a full circle moment
and hearing you talk about it now, I love it.
I love this. Thank you for sharing all of that.
Speaker 4 (52:00):
Yes, oh my god, my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Thanks for chatting with us. It's very good to see you.
Speaker 4 (52:07):
It's good to see you too, both of you. This
feels like full circle.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
This feels like yes, definitely.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
That's the joy of doing this is like getting to
like reconnect and like talk about these things that we
all went through sort of together.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
In this like crazy war text.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
And now that we're all older, have lived life a
little longer, have.
Speaker 4 (52:30):
Some of us some of us older than others.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Who's counting? Count the lines on my face?
Speaker 3 (52:39):
Okay, not with that botox, Jenna, you know you're cutting
to a botoxe.
Speaker 1 (52:52):
Oh god, Michael, thank you are being here with us.
This was wonderful. We are so appreciative of how trusted
you were in the Grey Circle. You were very trusted
and that's why we enjoyed being around you, sharing with you,
(53:16):
seeing you, reading your staff. You know, just you were
very important part and we are grateful.
Speaker 4 (53:24):
Oh, thank you for being a very small part of
this incredible experience that you both went through.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
And if you would like to text me who your
sources were.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
Ill never tell.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
Tell Jenna, is your hundredth podcast? We've done it?
Speaker 4 (53:43):
Oh? When is your two hundredths?
Speaker 1 (53:45):
We got it.
Speaker 4 (53:46):
That's probably maybe for the two hundredths, we'll do a
big reveal. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
Okay, we have you on the record.
Speaker 1 (53:56):
Have you on the record. We have you on the.
Speaker 4 (53:57):
Records making a false promise.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Its so good to see. Thank you so so.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
Much, Thank you, take care, Thank you too.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Seriously though over this like holiday season spoiler alert, the
movie is also sort of a Christmas movie. Watch it.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
I wanted to watch it tonight.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
Watch it tonight, Jenna. Yeah, it's great. Thank you Michael
so much for joining us. Yes, truly, and like for
just it's really I will never get over people coming
on here and like opening up and being so honest
and you know, talking about their perspectives in their lives,
and it means a lot that they trust us and
(54:40):
share so much with us. Yeah, well, Vin, isn't it
weird interviewing the interviewer. Yes, very very it's nerve wracking,
like this person is very good at their job and
now we're doing their job to them.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
Well, here's the thing, they always end up interviewing us anyway,
So I'm like, my job is done. I'm just kidding.
That was a really No, that was really fun to
that was special feminis and yeah, it's really wonderful. So
thank you, Michael. Hope you guys enjoyed the episode. Join
us next week for another recap and guests and that's
what you're a miss.
Speaker 2 (55:12):
But also before you go, snacks Miss is happening. Oh so,
go to alexandriahouse dot org slash snacks Miss with two
x's to donate, Go download Nya Rivera's song Prayer for
the Broken proceeds. Go to alexandria House and also just enjoy.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
Unreally strong Prayer for the Broken And there are just
some additional support from some friends of Glee. No really,
go go donate and learn more about alexurd your house
and enjoy the song and Mary sms Mary snakes Miss.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
Thanks for listening and follow us on Instagram at and
that's what you really miss pod. Make sure to write
us a review and leave us five stars see you
next time.
And that's what you really missed with Jenna.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And Kevin and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to and That's what you Really miss podcast. A
very very very special episode. Yes, who do we have to?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
We have Michael Asiello who is TV journalist Royalty, worked
for TV Guide Entertainment Weekly and then started his own
company called tv Line and just he gets all the scoops.
He's such a fan of TV and writes really wonderful
(00:39):
things about TV because he cares so much. And he
was such a big part of our show. He was
breaking all kinds of stories. We'd see him on red
carpets and he's part of that Glee family to us,
like Glee Memory.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Who's a strong part of the twitter verse. Oh yeah,
and he's whipping those fans up a trusted, trusted source,
so he also has some sources of his own, that's right.
See if he feels some you enjoy.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Hello.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Oh my god, Hello, you both look amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So do you? I love that haircut?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Great?
Speaker 4 (01:20):
I got it cut just for this.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Oh wow, I had a feeling.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
We appreciate it for that. We love to look at beauty.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
I know I've listened to your podcast you're obsessed with it.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yes, it's all we talk about.
Speaker 5 (01:33):
Really.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I mean we come, you know, dressed in the nines
for our podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Now I can see that. But fashion is off the hook.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
It may not look like it, but Jenna's sweatshirt is
thousands and thousands of dollars.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Wow. Actually yeah, I can see it.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Stains on it, so I can see it.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
And my T shirt's definitely not twenty years old.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Michael Jenna, it's good to see you.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
It's good to see you. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Welcome to our show, Welcome to the Glee podcast.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Thank you for having me. I was so excited to
get the invitation.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Wollvery a very important part of the Glee history.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
I maybe you know, it's funny. I did a little
bit of a deep dog prior to this interview, and
I was going through my Glee coverage over the years,
and let me tell you, there's a lot of it.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
There's a lot, and you're a part of a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
In different mediums as well, because Twitter and Glee sort
of was this beautiful marriage in the very beginning, because
they were sort of blowing up together and then you
were on there interacting with fans daily for lots of shows,
not even just Glee, and you had all the spoilers,
you knew everything.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Well, I think that's really my If my legacy about
Glee is going to be anything, I think, I think
it's the news that I broke during that time, and
the and the spoilers, and because we lived in a
different time back then when like spoilers were like a
massive major piece of journalism. So now, but back then
(03:21):
with with broadcasts, when broadcast was huge, and when Glee
was big, it was like people wanted to know what
was coming up?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Who was your source?
Speaker 4 (03:32):
So now that the show is over and now time
on your podcast, I feel comfortable letting you know that
my source was Are you serious? Do you really think
I'm going, Oh my.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
God, you got me, girl, I'm sweating. I really felt like,
oh my god, we're gonna find out.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
You're gonna find who deep deep Throat.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Is the biggest news we'll have on our podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Ever, I also had a fear that I'm like, was
it me? My memory? So that I'm like, it could
have been me.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
You're fired, Kevin, You're fired.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
You know what I will say is it was It's
not one person. Glee was such a huge show and
there were so many people involved in it that, you know,
information flowed from multiple avenues and.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Sources, and you are and were a very trusted source
and figure, I think in TV journalism, entertainment journalism. So
doesn't that do you think that incentivizes people to come
to you. Because they come to you, they're not going
to some gossipy, slanderous like you do serious stuff reporting
(04:42):
about TV, like you love TV, Like there's such care
and your story about shows and things. So I feel
like people gravitate towards that.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Well, I think it helps it. You know, I worked
for a TV guide and I worked for Entertainment Weekly.
So even if my coverage was cheapy and playful, I
mean it usually was. I mean I did harder stuff,
like I did cover stories and bigger, bigger features, but
but a lot of my stuff was sort of fun
and light and uh, you know, the spoilers were sort
(05:13):
of wrapped in this sort of snarkiness. Uh. But but
I was always backed by a you know, a legacy
brand and a really refutable you know brand, TD Guy
and Team Weekly and then when tv line launched, so
I think that certainly helped, you know, with my visibility
and that, and when people brought me scoops, they kind
(05:35):
of knew that it was going they were going to get,
you know, big play.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Okay, let's talk about the scoops though, because let's just
start there. Yeah, do you have like, do you have
any like memories that stick out of Glee spoilers that
you broke, Like, do you have any that like, well.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Hyber, I remember breaking Darren Cris's casting was a huge
deal because I knew that role. I knew that role
was coming before it was cast, and that was a
pretty big spoiler. And then and then you know the
fact that uh you know he was coming on as
a uh you know, is this character so? And then
(06:16):
I remember breaking that the news of who got the role,
even though Darren wasn't a huge name at the time,
there was so much anticipation about who was going to
be getting getting this role. That was a pretty major
one in terms of spoilers, you know, all the romance stuff,
that's what you know. The although the romance surrounding particularly
(06:41):
Rachel you know, uh Leah, all of her loved dress people.
There was just a readers that were kind of obsessed
with with with that and I and I kind of,
you know, it's it's tricky because you know, one time
you don't you don't want to ever outright spoil something,
you know, so I you don't want to ruin someone's experience,
(07:03):
so you want to I try to always couch it
or frame it in more of a tease to get
people excited to watch the show. And also I didn't
really want to make enemies of Ryan Murphy and everybody else,
you know. So it's like I tried to be a
team player and uh and not not be an enemy.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Mm hmmmmm, No, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I feel like tv Guide when you were there, was
like one of the earliest supporters of the show, Like
we had covers of TV Guide and we were at
the events, all the events, and that was sort of
like our introduction to the craziness that you know, would
get even crazier as the years went on. But I
(07:59):
feel like when that happens, is that your decision, We
were like I want to support this show, I love
the show, we need to do this thing. Or is
that sort of like a brand strategy of like, oh,
the show seems is seemingly doing quite well and is
going to get bigger let' support it early. How does
that work?
Speaker 4 (08:19):
It's a decision above my pay grade. Back then, for sure,
a brand decision. You know, I was off doing my
own thing at TV Guide and Entertainment Weekly in many ways,
like I had my own blog, I had my sort
of you know, my own scoop factory, you know, and
then and then the brand existed sort of outside of that.
(08:40):
But in terms of like covers and particularly covers, those
decisions always went high up. But you know, Glee was
an out of the box smash, so I don't think
people had to you know, the higher ups had to
think too long and hard about whether to quick Glee
on the cover or to get the hid in this show,
(09:00):
because it was a phenomenon, you know, from right out
of the gate, from season one. And you know, back
then TV Guide was a much bigger deal than it
is now in terms of like the zeitgeist. Like if
you were on the cover of TV Guide, that meant
you your show or you as a performer have arrived.
Same thing with Entertainment Weekly, you know, for sure, you
(09:23):
know the peak of Entertainment Weekly. Getting an e W
cover was like, okay, we we are phenomenon.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, it was a big, big deal. Yeah, I remember
those things.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
You know, And then and then obviously you know, you know,
Comic Con, you come around and I did all the
video and your Comic Con and also on the red
carpet at the Emmys, and that gave me an opportunity
to actually meet you, which is really was some of
the most fun is getting out from behind my computer
breaking the news and actually to interact with cast members,
especially fun cast members like the two of you. It's
(09:58):
like it was always it was always just a joy
and a pleasure to interview when you guys were always
game about like throwing a scoop here and there, and
you know, we give each other a ship about you know,
about school. It was just a really fun back and forth.
And those in terms of like my memories of covering
the show you particularly the Comic On interviews, were really fun.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
This morning, you sent me a Comic Con interview that
you're looking and I said it to Jenna and we're like, oh,
I had the same sort of reaction of like, it's
so strange to see it now. It's Darren, Leah, Corey, Nya,
myself and Jenna.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Told me the six of you, yes, and it's like
and Corey and Naya were sitting right next to each other,
and I knew that video existed. And then after Naya passed,
I was just like, I watched it interview again and
I said, I can't believe I can't believe it. They're
both gone. And then you know, I watched it again
(10:57):
in preparation for this interview, and it's just, you know,
it's just so it's so sad. But you know, I
guess bettersweet is it? Bittersweet is the way to say it,
because it is such a fun interview, and you know,
and it was fun to see you guys sitting next
to each other and having your sort of camaraderie. Uh
and but it's like like ten years ago. It's just crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, yeah, no, it was really crazy to watch. Comic
Con was one of my my personal favorite year two
at ten, so I was at all the gleek comic
cons and doing the panel in the ballroom. I was
gladly raising my hand to go and promote the show.
But yeah, that was particularly a memorable one to watch
(11:44):
back because we're talking about the future of the show,
we're talking about what's to come, we're talking you know
there to hear their voices even you know, it's just
you get a little you know, chill down your spine.
But am Coma was special because we also there was
a lot of information also revealed there, Like we learned
(12:06):
the first year at comic Con that Kevin and I
were going to be We're only juniors. We all thought
we were graduating, and we're like, what's happening to our jobs?
Where's this going? Where's this headed? And so we learned
a lot of information because it was the first time
you get like Brady and and Ryan in a room,
you know, all together other than you know, writing these
(12:27):
crazy scripts. So but it was really fun to see
you and and kind of experience like the fans also
in that way firsthand, because they you know, comic Con
is all about the fans, and it's it's a very
concentrated place to experience it and to.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Meet over hand. And what stands out for me by
the interview is you guys knew nothing about what was
coming up in season four, like because you took place
between season three and season four, which I think you
know pretty much at the peak of the show or
right around the peak of the show. But it was
the first summer where you guys didn't have the tour,
like you had a summer off and we talk about
(13:09):
you had you actually had a hiatus. But of course
I'm grilling you about what's coming up in season four,
and you guys knew absolutely nothing. You you were no
help to me. You're no help to me at all.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
I'm not sure that they knew the writer.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I loved how like sort of clunky are dynamic with
each other. Was in like a charming way because we
clearly were like out of sync. You know when you
do a bunch of press and you have your answers
and this question is going to go to this person,
and we were all just sort of like vibing. It
was a little messy, but obviously like we knew and
loved you and felt comfortable with you, so we were
just like goofing around and also being honest about like,
(13:52):
I don't know, I had no idea what was going
to happen.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Well, also, I was watching it, it was just sort of
struck by. There's there was just a nice energy amongst
the six of you. You know, I think Glee sometimes
you get there's this bad wrap of all feuds and
this and that, and you know, if you watch that interview,
you don't get any sense like everybody's interacting, everybody's making
(14:17):
eye contact with each other, joking around, like and this
is three seasons. Well, this isn't going into your fourth season,
so this is this is when you know there might
have been or already were tensions or whatever, but you
guys were all sort of really professional and it's just
a fun energy to be around.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
That's nice. That's a good point, though.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
It is because I do think like post Glee, that's
what's talked about, probably more than anything, is sort of
the negative, dramatic stuff like that, where that didn't really
exist at all, and until it did towards the end,
and that was after Corey passed away, and I think
that was probably the impetus of things just got weird,
(15:01):
and so then dynamics shift people's mindset shift. Being in
the place where we spent the most time with him
every day, you know, it's like a it's a really
hard thing to wrap your head around. And I think
a lot of those quote unquote, I don't know, feuds
or whatever, we're probably heightened or exaggerated because of brought
on because of the external emotional things that were happening.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, but that interview is like that was the dynamic
most days in the choir room.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
With everyone, and not just six of us, there were
you know, eighty of us on that show, and we were.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
People were sleeping or closing their eyes, and you know,
then there's other banter, but that was generally us all
the time. So that was like a little kind of
like view in a peek inside to what it was like.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Yeah, those interviews with you at comic Con every year
were also like one of the things to look forward
to because we did necessarily do a lot of sit
down interviews at comic Con. You have your panel, you
have a bunch of like photo shoots and things, but
like yours, to me, was like the stop that we
always had to do, Like that was the interview we
(16:07):
were going to do.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
You know what.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
That's so nice of you to say, And I really
appreciate that. It's something I hear of and not to
be bostful or whatever, but I do hear a lot
of that from the actors, especially a comic I'm like,
oh my god, this is this is our favorite interview.
Blah blah blah, and can I just tell you behind
the scenes that I'm on the edge of my seat
wondering if you guys are even going to show up,
(16:30):
because especially when I was at tv Line, when I
launched tv Line, it's like I started over in many ways,
you know, I left the EW and like all these
legacy brands existed, and then tv Line, you know, was
writing on me in many many ways in my name
and was not known. So I always we were sort
of like the ones that were going to get cut
(16:51):
if you guys were running late, and of course these
big casts, you know, being carted around San Diego with
under strict time, somebody's going to get cut. And I
can't tell you how many times we were the ones
who would get find out, oh they're not going to
be able to make it. We would be the ones.
So it's like the fact that you guys were there
(17:12):
was just such a relief to me. Like it was
it always felt like a little bit of a battle
to get all those big, high profile pasts in our studio.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I'm sure sure. I mean also, but you built up
such a I imagine too that you had your name
and personally because you had interviewed so many people and
written about so many people that like, your name was
also a big draw where yes, obviously it was attached
to the legacy brands, but outside of that, your name
(17:41):
was also recognizable and associated with, like, you know, the
fun and the care that you put into your interviews.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
The flip side to that is, though, if you're if
it's your name, that is that is sort of driving
at least in the beginning of the brand, and they
reject the brand, they're rejecting you. Oh yeah, or it
felt like you know someone who's sort of an insecure,
sensitive person. It's I think that's really my maybe why
it would accept me when someone would pull the plug
(18:09):
on an interview at Comic conict the last minute, because
it just felt like it was a rejection, a personal
rejection of you. We don't give a shit about you,
not just the TV line. We don't care about you,
even though it's really never quite about that and I
shouldn't take it personally, but anyway.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
But I mean, you were starting a new brand, so
how do you not because you and the brand are
synonymous at that point, right like you are the brand,
the brand is you, and so yeah, and.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Also I'm a hustler and That's the one thing that
I will say that I did enjoy about that. I
like being an underdog. I like I always operate well,
feeling like I am fighting an uphill battle. Not that
I enjoy, you know, showdowns or or arguments with the people,
but I like I like the feeling that of working hard.
(18:58):
I like the feeling that I have to work just
a little bit harder to get Maybe with some other
people don't, you know, get served on a silver platter
or you know, for for who they are, who they
work for, they get it a little bit easier.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
I mean, maybe that's why you resonated with Glee so much.
I'm curious about the first time. Well, I'm curious. I
have two questions for you. What was the first show
(19:35):
phenomenon that you covered? And then what was your experience
with the first time you got the Glee screener? When
did you watch it? Did you watch it with the
world like when you know? Tell me about that.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
So, my first experience covering up phenomenon not as big
as Glee would be Felicity. That was the show that
right before I started, right before I started a TV guide,
I was working for a soap opera magazine called Soaps
in Depth, but I became as when I was at
the Soaps in Depth, Felicity had debuted and I was
(20:11):
so obsessed with this, like I want to cover this show.
But we were a soap opera magazine. So I knew
someone who worked at tv Guide then called tv guide Online,
which the internet was new, so that's what it was,
called tv Guide Online. And so I had a friend
who was who worked for the digital side of tv Guide,
(20:31):
and I asked them, if you need coverage of Felicity,
I would be more than happy to help out there.
And luckily, Jonathan Reiner is his name, he was all
for it. So you know, I'm very in the infancy
of my journalism career writing for a soap opera magazine,
but also getting on the phone with Kerrie Russell, getting
(20:52):
on the phone with JJ Abrams, getting on the phone
with all these people from the show. Because I had
TV Guide attacked. Even though it was tv guide Online
and there was so much unknown about what that was,
it was still tv Guide. So I got access, incredible access,
so uh and it was incredible. I was so exciting
and it's really what led me to getting the job
at full time job at TV Guide was my Felicity
(21:14):
coverage because I went I went all in on that
and I love I loved the show so much. And
you know, it arrived at the time of my life.
I had already graduated college. Show. Uh it came after
that for me. But the character of Felicity I felt
a connection to, like h and and a kinship with
(21:35):
and uh the show itself I just thought was so
well written. So that was that was the first phenomenon Glee. Uh,
you know, and I was thinking about this. I remember
seeing the pilot, watching the pilot beforecause we get screen
it was before the episodes came out. In one of
the advantages of being a TV journalist. I did not
(21:55):
love the pilot. I remember mistately, I did not love
the I was one of those take yeah, I take
and here's here's why I felt like tonally, it was
all over the place, like I was like, is this
a is this one of the Like it's just like
the shifting tones, like you to Sylvester in one scene
of being like this horrible person and you have a
(22:16):
sweet scene. It just to me, it felt and then
the shaky cam. You know, suddenly there's scenes with shaky cam,
It's like, what is going on? Like, I felt like
it was trying to be too too many things that
I didn't quite get it. But it grew on me.
And then I also think that the show grew into
itself and became more confident of what it was and
(22:38):
got better as it went along. But I do distinctly
remember that I was not I was not amongst the
many people who were just like, oh my god, this
is the best show I've ever seen, you know, and
it was different. I'll say that it was absolutely different,
and I had, you know, I had a lot to
offer in a lot of potential, but I didn't. I
(22:59):
didn't love it as much as a lot of other
people out of the gate. But then that as the
seasons went on, I felt that, you know, it felt
like it really came into its own.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
So you're a TV guide online though at that point,
and you're like, oh, crap, I have to cover the
show that I think is like Matt like, you had
to watch it to cover it, And that's why I
grew on you. Otherwise you may not have jumped on
the bandwagon of Glee.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Absolutely if I was just a regular TV watcher and
you know, working in some other industry, I I probably
would not have given it, although I will say once
it became such a phenomenon, I can't I would imagine
an let me chuck back in. Yeah, all my friends
are talking about this. Let me see what I'm missing. Yeah,
(23:52):
but I don't know that I would have immediately jumped
back in. But obviously it was an out of the
box hit, so there and it did well, that's no
thing I'll say. It is like Glee stuff performed so
well traffic wise that it was it would have been
bad business for me to drop the ball. And uh
(24:13):
so some you know, and sometimes I have to think
with that brain too. It's like what is good for
the business whether I love the show or not. And
again I did love the show. I just didn't love
the pilot. And then in later seasons I had issues
just like a lot of other people. But generally speaking, uh,
you know, the main motivator was It's like the audience
(24:36):
was locking to TV Guide, Interesting Weekly and tv Line
for Glee coverage and that was a demand. Who were
more than happy.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
To film sure. Sure, And then we kept our set pretty.
They kept it to a minimum with press on set
do you feel like that, Kevin, Like, there wasn't a
ton of media that was there was it was very controlled.
But you visited a bit?
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Nope, I did not. I believe I visited once. No,
I'm pretty sure I visited.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Memory you were there a lot.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Oh that's so nice.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
I mean, make a handful of familiar faces that we
had on set that were allowed on set that we
actually like, welcomed to see. Right, But that's so interesting.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Well, so one of the reasons why So Tim Stack
did most of the Glee covers and Entertainment Weekly, so
I was the one who would be on set doing
a cover story. I'm the one who's breaking news stories
and stuff like that. Anything. I would think that producers like,
we don't want him on set. He's already got enough sources,
you know, we don't want him, you know, and curing anymore.
(25:44):
Not to say that God was a reason I wasn't
in there. Really just wasn't a necessity for me to
be there because I wasn't doing bigger stories. But I
do remember, and I don't know if it was like
a TCA set visit. I don't think it was, because
I do kind of remember I was I was there
by myself, but I was any in the choir room,
maybe season four or five, and I was there all
(26:07):
day while you guys were shooting choir stuff. I forget
exactly what was going on, but I do remember distinctly
how how kind Corey was to me during that day,
because I was kind of by myself, and you know,
and you know, as you know, there's a lot of
time to kill when you're on SAT and Nice. For
(26:28):
whatever reason, I spent the whole day there, but he
kept checking in on me, and I remember he came
over and we were talking. He had just shot a
movie in Philadelphia that hadn't come out yet that he
was really excited about, and he was talking to me
about that, and really that was my biggest memory from
that day, was just like how lovely keen it was
and one monsters the two of you were. That's really
(26:53):
the takeaway track. I've done that.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
We can cut that out.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
It's fine, this is our show.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
Everybody, honestly, everybody was nice. That was another one of
those days was like I'm not seeing the drama, that's
the tension. I'm seeing a bunch of professional people who
are showing up. They know their lines are doing their
work and like there was I didn't see any any
of that. So I think that was the one time
I maybe stop by to set one or other one
(27:27):
one one more times for like a TCA event or whatever.
But that was the like one meaty day that I
spent them.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Sure that makes sense.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
Corey was always like, come on in.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
He's just so inclusive the amount of.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Times we were late to press things because he was
genuinely so nice and talking to everyone.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
We're late, we have to.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
We have to get out of here, we have to go.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
And you know, I'll say it just about Corey too.
Is I remember when I found out that he had died,
and it was late at night on the East Coast,
I believe hit my late husband, Uh and I were
about to go to sleep, or I had already fallen asleep.
Kit was still awake and he woke me up and
(28:16):
he was like Michael because he knew, you know, he
came to the concert with me. He you know, he
was part of the Glee phenomenon too. He's like, you're
not going to believe this. And I think it was
TMZ that broke it. And I was like, it's liked
midnight or one am, and I'm like in disbelieve, I
can't believe what I'm reading. I'm shocked, I'm sad, I'm
(28:37):
all these things. But then I have to switch gears immediately.
I have to actually write a fucking story about him dying.
So it's like the brain has to immediately shift from
being like stunned, shocked, sad, all these things too. Oh,
I have to actually write about this now. It's my
job to write a story about this person that I
(29:00):
know that I've covered, that I've interviewed. And the same
thing with Naya to a degree. You know, it's like
obviously that she died after the show had ended, but
it's still is a story we covered, that we had
to cover, and it's just that's one of the tricky things,
is just the brain switch of Okay, turn off the
(29:23):
personal and get into the professional mode because you have to.
You have to write the story now, And there are
two different sides of the brain.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, that's really interesting. It resonates to maybe Kevin, you
can ogree your disagree, but like for us, we lost
a friend and we lost a cast mat or and
a character on our show, and so there was a
very very thin line between what you were seeing on
camera in the quarterback and what you were seeing in
(29:54):
real life, right behind the scenes. And I hate that episode,
hate shooting it, hate everything about it obviously because what
you're watching is us grieving a friend. You have a
camera in your face.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
And it wasn't that long after, right, It was like
a couple of months when you shut up.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
It was like three months or two it was.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
It was very maybe two months, very fresh, and it's
I also don't know, like to your point about having
to switch gears and like write about it how you
Then it was obviously the first time for us, for
a lot of us to one lose somebody close to
us and to your sort of a public figure or
the show is this public entity, and so then you're
(30:39):
having to deal with that whole side of it.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Then there are reporters, journalists writing about it. Then there
are people on social media tweeting you or whatever. And
the balance of how do we figure out one how
to like grieve a friend and then also represent this
publicly in a way that is like honoring him and
(31:04):
respectful but also not encroaching on any of us what
we feel comfortable doing. Very weird for you.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Like trying to be respectful but while having to do
a job right to report on it and to write it.
It feels I'm sure it felt very right.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
It's like, when is it When is it okay for
you to start asking the producers how you're going to
incorporate this into the show? You know, it's like and
because that also is a big part of the story.
And as I remember, Corey died right before Comic Con.
Once it was over the summer, it was starting a hiatus,
and it was before Comic Con, and I remember getting
(31:43):
pulled out of an interview in our interview Street because
Ryan Murphy wanted to speak to me. He was speaking
to a couple of journalists I believe about how he
was going to handle Corey's death on the show. And
that was the first time we knew how it was
going to be handle on how it was going to
be dealt with. And you know, I have to say it.
(32:03):
I thought it was beautifully done and was a beautiful tribute,
But it's an impossible situation. I can't imagine what you
guys went through.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, I don't know how any show, you know, there's
a handful of shows that's happened, and like I watched
The West Wing after that had happened, and I was like, oh,
how do they deal with this? And it's this weird.
It is impossible. I think it's a sort of lose
lose no matter what, where there's no proper way because
there's no real way, especially on a TV schedule, to
(32:39):
like separate that real life event from a fictional character
event because you're grieving in real time and you're shooting
five days a week, sometimes six days a week, and
so there is no sort of separation at all of anything.
So it's a weird, weird thing. But I will say,
(33:03):
though you're writing about these tough things, which you wrote
about your relationship with your husband, Kit was the is
one of the most phenomenal books I've ever read. And
then that movie that came out, Boy, like you can
(33:26):
write your damn face off and like share like these
really hard to talk about things. Reading that I think
also helped me, you know, go through these hard grief
stages of grief and things like that and thinking about
the past. But if anyone has not read your book,
(33:47):
spoiler the hero dies, it's unbelievable. And see the movie
just ugly cried through both of them. I made all
my friends go see the movie. I was like, you
give me that book, Yeah, thank you sent it to me, like,
thank you for Like, I'm just it was.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
Here for the support. Let me just say, it's like,
when that book came out, you were so lovely. I
think you even moted it before you even read it.
And then when the movie came out, You're just I
don't take the support for granted. I really appreciate it.
You've been always so kind to me with with my
(34:28):
career and uh, and I'm just extremely grateful.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
So thank you, Kevin, I mean more than welcome. You
do not need to thank me, because it's also just
like it's beautiful. It's a beautiful piece of work. The
movie is also equally as beautiful. And as a genuine
fan of the book, I was also you know, so
I was like, what is this movie going to be?
(34:53):
Am I going to get the same feeling? And did
and it felt like such a great translation of the
book onto the screen. And how I mean, what was
that process like for you going from one deciding to
write this book, have the book come out, and then
have a movie with you know, Jim Parsons and Sally Field.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
It was so many things like but as I sit
here now a year out from the movie having come out,
it almost doesn't feel real. It doesn't feel did it happen?
Like did all that? Because you know, this past year
has been challenged for me. It's been really different, like
a morning period because after kid died, I started writing
(35:37):
the book like three months late after he died, or
maybe four months, because my biggest fear was if I'm
going to do this, I need to do it quickly
because I'm not going to remember like the little the
little things like the conversations, mannerisms like and to me
it felt like if I were if I was going
to do Kit justice or come close to doing justice
(35:59):
to him, I need to remember those details. So I
had to start right right away. But you know, the
book led into the movie, and that was over eight
years of my life. That last January came to an
end and was essentially over and and it was a loss.
(36:20):
It was it was a loss of this experience, this
incredible experience, life changing experience. It was a loss of Kit.
It was you know, I was able to hang on
to him for those three eight years professionally, through the book,
through the movie. He was with me for all that
and then he's now gone too, Like I had nothing
to nothing is you know, sort of tethering me to
(36:43):
him other than memories. But it was this past year
has been about letting go and moving on in many ways,
you know, professionally, emotionally, personally. You know, I was going
to ask you, you guys, not to say it's the
same thing. But when Glee ended, did you guys have
(37:04):
a period of where you're like, oh my god, I
just went I just went through this incredible, once in
a lifetime experience and now it's over. I'm sure this
was some relief to that, like, oh we made it.
I'm alive, I survived. But also did you have a
period of, like of mourning of the experience?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
For me, I did years later.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
I think a lot of us, I think buried ourselves
in work immediately, Like Jenna moved back to New York,
I went to London and we were just sort of
the show's done. It was really hard on us and
emotionally physically, let's like geographically get as far away as
possible to do something else. And then it wasn't until
(37:52):
those new things faded away that I think we all
sort of had this realization or maybe it was a
morning period of like, Wow, we worked really hard for
a really long time and experienced this crazy thing. And
I think even still to this day, those things are
(38:14):
still coming up for me when I'm in different situations
or meeting new people or different groups of friends, and
the things I'm interested in are not interested in, are
wholly affected by that experience. I think where it's like,
we went through so much in such a pretty like
short amount of time, life changing events that there's no
(38:35):
way that those ripples don't continue I think for years,
decades afterwards, and.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
So time in your life.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah, so I'm still learning. I think about that, and
every now, you know, doing this talking to different people
who had different interactions with the show. I think that
sort of maybe is judging up a lot of that
as well, and in a good way. I think you
do sort of have to. It's good to work through
it and think through it and deeply about it, as
opposed to maybe what we initially did, which was physically
(39:08):
literally run away from it.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Yeah, no, we actually did. I think there was a
it was a distraction period of like I'm done, I'm good.
Get me out of here, Like I moved back to
New York's it get me out of LA because that's
the only thing that I associated Los Angeles with was
with Glee. So I called it a gree talks, and
I went home. I worked on other things. I saw
my family. And then when the work slowed down and
(39:34):
nobody wanted anything to do with us, Like no casting
rooms wanted to see us because we were Tina and Artie,
like it was a very hard thing for them to separate,
which makes total sense. And then there was all these
emotions that I think were unresolved from feeling I don't know,
(39:58):
I guess not, I guess over worked or underappreciated at
least for me in some of these moments, and never
being able to actually vocalize that and just walking away
as an actor saying, I say, yes, I do my lines,
I you know, show up on time and I go home.
And so there was like a reckoning period. I think
(40:21):
after Nia died, that was a huge reckoning from a
lot of people, you know, Ryan, for us, for us
with Ryan, because Ryan really didn't talk about Lee, you know,
after all of that.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
I know when he did your podcast. I was so
surprised pleasantly like, yeah, I was like I was so
happy for the two of you because I knew what
that that, what that endorsement, and what that that that
publicity and visibility would do for your podcast. But I
also was like it just made me feel good that
(40:54):
he was at a place where he was like I'm
ready to talk and to the two of you. It
was just really nice all around.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
No, agreed, Agreed. We're very grateful for that and for
him and to be in like a just a healing
place with everybody in the show now. But you know,
it took how long, like how long has it been
since we finished twenty fifteen? Was it?
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Yeah? But I think it sort of takes unfortunately, or
it took a really another horrible event to happen to
sort of like okay, you guys, like life is too short. Yeah,
we and as you know, bringing you back to that
interview that we talked about a comic con where you
saw the joy and like the love that we all
(41:38):
had with each other where it's like, I think we
got caught up in sort of the media scrutiny of
the show postally, and that altered everyone's opinion of the
show for us ourselves, which is a weird thing to
experience because it's like, well, no, let's we had a
great time. We made connections with people, and just like
(41:59):
people do it any co working space, you know, where
you find your people, the people that you're obsessed with,
they become family. And we were obviously spending fifteen sixteen
hours a day with each other, and like, let's remember
those things because we're losing people that we love and like,
we can't be doing this anymore. And so I think, luckily,
(42:20):
out of a horrible situation, we found I think one
of the only positive things that could have come out
of it. And luckily it was a all hands on
deck sort of approach, because I mean I talked, We
all talked to everyone, and I had people who are angry,
and because it's just sort of brings up all that
(42:41):
stuff where where it's unrelated in a sense of like
Nya passing away was like this horrible tragic thing. Why
are people talking about Glee? Like why are we talking
about this thing that happened so long ago? Still and
for whatever reason, we were talking about it, and like, okay,
let's this out. Let's figure this out now because we
(43:02):
can't do this.
Speaker 4 (43:09):
That the most uplifting podcast.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
This is welcome to our therapy catch.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Yeah, well you know what I will.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
I will say that it's something about loss. It's so
it's so universal, you know, It's like it's one thing
that I'm reminded of when people reach out to me
about the book or the movie. It's like mostly it's
like I went through this and it helped me get
every No one is immune to loss, and I think
(43:39):
it's one of the things that binds us together, uh
and sort of a connected fissue. We are experiencing that
loss and grief and we all go through it, and
I don't know, it's actually I enjoy talking to people
about their own processes journeys with loss, and I inevitably
(44:03):
learned something about them, but also just about the greeting
process as well.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
I think that's also why I'm just like so constantly
in awe of you and the book in the movie,
because to be able to voice that, to share all
these like incredible moments of your relationship and the hard
moments for somebody to do that, to put themselves out there,
to put that down on paper. So the rest of
us can not only learn about your story, but then
(44:31):
learn about ourselves and also how we can deal with
grief and also like it is the most universal experience
of life. Yeah, and once you are affected by it
or impacted by it, you're part of this really shitty club.
But you know there are everybody at some point will
(44:51):
be in that club. And it's nice to be able
to find something for me. I guess it was your
book really of starting a dialog and feeling comfortable about
talking about that or working on it with yourself, And
so I think that's why I'm always drawn to it
and always bring it up every time I see you,
because it's just like a really impressive feat and the
(45:12):
world is better off that you put yourself out there
in that way.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Are there any shows right now that you're obsessed with?
Because you have some great taste.
Speaker 4 (45:34):
You know. I think that the titles I'm going to
spout off are not going to be surprising to anyone.
But The Bear is just the most incredible show. Succession
and White Lotus. You know, I'm a big HBO geek.
You know, so much of their programming. I loved Barry.
(45:55):
You know, HBO just has such an incredible track record
of God, they just have so many great things, and
they had such a great run for so many years.
It's like it feels like all my favorite shows were
on HBO. Oh. For All Mankinds on Apple TV Plus,
which is a little show that doesn't get nearly enough attention,
and their new season, season four is out now, and
(46:18):
it's just such a beautifully, smartly done show about space,
outer space and astronauts, things that I'm not particularly usually
interested in. But you know, at the end of the day,
it's a soap opera, though, you know, all these Successions,
(46:38):
it's a soap opera. Yeah, you know. And I'm a
kid who grew up obsessed with soap opera, and really
that's just continuing storylines, surrealized storylines. So I'm a I mean,
I'm a sucker for a good soap opera. And some
of the soap operas a little more high brow than others,
you know, you know, Succession is certainly one of those.
(46:58):
For All Mankind is one of those, but uh, and
Felicity was certainly, uh, in my opinion, one of those
with those as well.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Yeah, I love Felicity, Love Felicity.
Speaker 4 (47:09):
I wanted to be Felicity. I mean I was Felicity
one year for Halloween. But the short, the long hair scene,
it's on my Instagram scene, but it was it was terrifying.
It was terrifying. It was terrified. Everybody was terrifying. But
that's what Halloween is. That scared people.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
But yeah, you know who can make a good TV
shows that Carrie Russell. I mean that track record she touches,
it's goll Diplomat is like my favorite thing.
Speaker 4 (47:42):
Oh so good.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
The Diplomat really all the boxes for me.
Speaker 4 (47:49):
And that surprised me because and I told Perry this myself.
It was like the trailer. I did that love the
trailer because again, there was a total thing with the trailer.
It was like slapsticky, you know, and that's not the show,
and there is comedy in it, but it's layered comedy
and it's it comes out through character. The trailer did
(48:09):
the show no favor. So I had very low expectations
going in, even with the presence of Perry. So I
was so pleasantly surprised where I was like, this ship
is good. It's like your seat, yes, and I'm so
happy it.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Was for New It's like if Aaron Sorkin wrote something
a little lighter, Yeah, right, just a little less dense,
and yeah, I love it. I love a good political
And she's so good.
Speaker 4 (48:36):
She's so good, she's the role. And you know, it's
so funny you say something about the haircut. This is
something I talk about a lot, is the seasons been
the season two haircut. When the pandemic happened and we
were like looking for things to write about because there
was no television on. I went back and I revisited
Felicity season two, the famous haircut season, and because I
(49:00):
wanted to do a defense of not just the haircut,
but of this season as a whole, which was overshadowed,
marred by this this incident. And I think there's all
anyone thinks about, like the sophomore slump. She got a haircut,
and then the ratings went down, Well, the ratings went
down because the show moved to a new night, not
(49:21):
because of the haircut, but that's a better, snazzier last
your headline to do that the headline killed the show,
which not happened, but anyway, I rewatched all of season
two and did this sort of deep dive into why
season two was even better than season one in my opinion.
You know, I threw down. I was like, yes, the
(49:43):
haircut season is actually the superior season of Felicity, and
here's why. And let me tell you it holds up
season two. I would if you want, and you want
to go back and watch any season, go back and
watch season two. It's phenomenal. And the haircut made sense
in ca the character's world. It made sense regardless of
(50:03):
the bullshit about whether it was the smart decision for
the publicity, for the show or for Kerry. It was
like a character in college doing impulsive things. It made
sense for her to do that, especially coming off of
this romantic drama. Anyway, this isn't a podcast about Felicity.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
It can't be, but it can be.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
But it also felt like the publicity I remember it.
I didn't watch all Felicity, but like I watched it
much later in time after it was, you know, airing live,
and that was the memorable moment for me. It was
like she cut her hair, like all the process everywhere,
I don't know what they're talking about.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
I feel like it's akin to like it's such like
a non thing, like she cut her hair. It's like
when Obama wore a tan suit'. That's all we have.
That's the only negativity we have to say about this show.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
It's pretty good.
Speaker 4 (50:52):
Well, I think the fact that the ratings went down
in tandem with the hair but it gave people a
store a narrative. It was like, oh, she cut her
haircut and the ratings went down, But everybody forgets the
reason the ratings went down was because it moved to
a new night, and I think it was opposite friends, like,
I think it was Thursday night that it was, so
(51:13):
it was I think I think, don't don't quote me
on that, but I think it moved to a much
more competitive time. Stuff. But I will say one thing
I'm super proud of is that haircut reference made it
into the movie. And I'm so happy. Our first date,
Michael and Kit's first date. He mentions Felicity is his
favorite show and all he knows about Felicity about the
show where the haircut almost got the show canceled, And
(51:35):
then I sort of give him groth about that. But
also at the end there is a clique from Felicity
and a very memorable point, and I'm so proud that
we got that in there and we were allowed to
use that because just personally, that show means so much
to me.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
Yeah, it's beautiful. It's just like a full circle moment
and hearing you talk about it now, I love it.
I love this. Thank you for sharing all of that.
Speaker 4 (52:00):
Yes, oh my god, my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Thanks for chatting with us. It's very good to see you.
Speaker 4 (52:07):
It's good to see you too, both of you. This
feels like full circle.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
This feels like yes, definitely.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
That's the joy of doing this is like getting to
like reconnect and like talk about these things that we
all went through sort of together.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
In this like crazy war text.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
And now that we're all older, have lived life a
little longer, have.
Speaker 4 (52:30):
Some of us some of us older than others.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Who's counting? Count the lines on my face?
Speaker 3 (52:39):
Okay, not with that botox, Jenna, you know you're cutting
to a botoxe.
Speaker 1 (52:52):
Oh god, Michael, thank you are being here with us.
This was wonderful. We are so appreciative of how trusted
you were in the Grey Circle. You were very trusted
and that's why we enjoyed being around you, sharing with you,
(53:16):
seeing you, reading your staff. You know, just you were
very important part and we are grateful.
Speaker 4 (53:24):
Oh, thank you for being a very small part of
this incredible experience that you both went through.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
And if you would like to text me who your
sources were.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
Ill never tell.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
Tell Jenna, is your hundredth podcast? We've done it?
Speaker 4 (53:43):
Oh? When is your two hundredths?
Speaker 1 (53:45):
We got it.
Speaker 4 (53:46):
That's probably maybe for the two hundredths, we'll do a
big reveal. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
Okay, we have you on the record.
Speaker 1 (53:56):
Have you on the record. We have you on the.
Speaker 4 (53:57):
Records making a false promise.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Its so good to see. Thank you so so.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
Much, Thank you, take care, Thank you too.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Seriously though over this like holiday season spoiler alert, the
movie is also sort of a Christmas movie. Watch it.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
I wanted to watch it tonight.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
Watch it tonight, Jenna. Yeah, it's great. Thank you Michael
so much for joining us. Yes, truly, and like for
just it's really I will never get over people coming
on here and like opening up and being so honest
and you know, talking about their perspectives in their lives,
and it means a lot that they trust us and
(54:40):
share so much with us. Yeah, well, Vin, isn't it
weird interviewing the interviewer. Yes, very very it's nerve wracking,
like this person is very good at their job and
now we're doing their job to them.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
Well, here's the thing, they always end up interviewing us anyway,
So I'm like, my job is done. I'm just kidding.
That was a really No, that was really fun to
that was special feminis and yeah, it's really wonderful. So
thank you, Michael. Hope you guys enjoyed the episode. Join
us next week for another recap and guests and that's
what you're a miss.
Speaker 2 (55:12):
But also before you go, snacks Miss is happening. Oh so,
go to alexandriahouse dot org slash snacks Miss with two
x's to donate, Go download Nya Rivera's song Prayer for
the Broken proceeds. Go to alexandria House and also just enjoy.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
Unreally strong Prayer for the Broken And there are just
some additional support from some friends of Glee. No really,
go go donate and learn more about alexurd your house
and enjoy the song and Mary sms Mary snakes Miss.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
Thanks for listening and follow us on Instagram at and
that's what you really miss pod. Make sure to write
us a review and leave us five stars see you
next time.
Host
Jenna Ushkowitz
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.