Run and Tell That with Adam Shankman

Get ready for some great behind-the-scenes scoop about the making of 2007's Hairspray from the man who was at the helm of the film!

Producer, Choreographer, and Director Adam Shankman joins Jenna and Kevin to share some great stories about his toe-tapping and delightful musical, including the lengths he went to in order to assemble his A-list cast, like his memorable 1 AM dinner with John Travolta! Brittany Snow and Zac Efron bombing their first audition, the actor he initially didn't want, and the meeting with James Marsden that was hilariously interrupted by a Hollywood icon! Plus, he shares how working with Steve Martin on 'Bringing Down the House' changed his life, sweet stories from the set of 'A Walk to Remember,' some 'Glee' talk and so much more!

For fun, exclusive content, and behind-the-scenes clips, follow us on Instagram @andthatswhatyoureallymissedpod & TikTok @thatswhatyoureallymissed!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
And That's what You Really Missed with Jenna.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
And Kevin An iHeartRadio podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to and That's what You're Really miss podcast. Hello,
we have the guest of all guests today, the one
and only Adam Shankman. He is a legend, a director
and icon, and most of all, a dear friend of ours.
He directed Glee, He's directed Hairspray, one of my favorite

(00:30):
movies ever. He directed A Walk to Remember, and he
is just such a special, special human being. And I
cannot wait for you guys to hear his interview. It
is there's so much inside that I you know what,
Without further ado, Adam Chankman.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Hi, guys, Hi, it's so nice to see you. Thanks
for you know, fitting us in. You are one of
the people in the world.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
I'm no, I am busy right now, but it's not
that bad. It's like, I'm fine. You know how this works.
I mean, I was trying to explain to somebody last night.
I was talking because I was like, oh, I have
the podcast tomorrow, and I was explaining to a friend.
I was like, you don't understand what those people went through,
because I said, I said, you know, it's funny. I

(01:17):
always have like mixed feelings when I when people want
to talk about the show, because there strengthly is obvious
a lot of trauma around it. But I said, what
was really crazy was nobody will ever understand except that
pocket of people. What actually, especially those first two years

(01:39):
were like where it was like the bubble plus the
amount of work that was being piled on there with
no section and then blowing out and you're that famous,
but like when like what and you're like selling out
like amphitheaters, but you're like, I don't know who I am.

(02:01):
Like the whole thing was so fucking bloody crazy, and
then you get stuffed back into that work schedule yeah yeah,
oh and not getting paid a lot. And I was
just I was like you can sit and wax poetically

(02:22):
about the episodes, you know, and talk about like the content,
but the experience. I was like, there's no one who
could ever understand what that experience yeah, you know, and
it's so in the rear view mirror, like it's it
was like a kind of a long time ago.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yeah oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, that's like for us
when we've gone back and I've watched these things, like
oh this happened yeah, we did this and then brings
up all these you know, like you then you remember
the things, yeah, like what it took to film all that,
and like, oh right, so you're just trying to survive.
You're just trying to get through that.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
Complete survivalism because it's not just the hours on set
then it's in the choreography of thing. Yeah, going into
the room without them and then going and like getting shuttled,
and I was just it was nuts, and everybody was
just kind of doing it.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, by the time you came to it was like
everybody was just in that machine kind of already. I
feel like you were used to like schedules like that, and.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Well I am, but most people are. I mean, I'm
a weirdo, like because of where I personally come from,
and I don't have a lot of thoughts about about
a hard schedule. But yours, actually, yours was abuse because

(03:49):
they're because and it was frankly abuse because of the tours.
You didn't get a break and I'm not talking about
like a vacation, and I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
Like more than three days.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah, time to sit down.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
They didn't get paid.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
Fairly for those tours.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
And so, which you probably didn't even quite understand back then,
Like I mean maybe you knew.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Sort of, but it's like, yeah, Kevin actually had the
most wherewithal to understand what.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, I don't know if we've ever said this for
the tours, because I came from music and understood the
potential of what the tour could make, and that there
was like a clause in our contract where they had
us for a month, but they needed it to be
six weeks for it to make money. So therefore they
were breaking their contract. And so then we kind of

(04:44):
had them right where we can then go back and
ask for things for the second tour, the Arena tour,
and they offered us like a an increase in money,
but it still was not good, and.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
They were going to mald tour worthy right.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
And they had released the venues and the price of tickets,
and so I like did some easy math and I
was like, this is what they're probably going to make
between forty and fifty million dollars. So Jenna and I
called over the OG twelve eight eight eight, and we said,

(05:24):
here's what we think is going to happen.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
Was this in la or was this was this was during.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
During the season and pre tour, pre signing in the.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
Spring, like at the end of the season two filming,
and we had everybody over at our house because we
were living together, and we said, what would what do
you guys want to ask for? Because I think if
we all go in together, because we were also hearing
rumors that, like the Modern Family people were going to
go in and negotiate and you know together and all that,

(05:58):
and it was sort of like fifty to fifty, you know,
half of us wanted more money, half of us just
wanted things like services in a private plane. We're like,
we're going to get that, yeah, And so then it
ended up just falling, falling apart, one of the people
sort of ruined it for the rest of us, and

(06:19):
and Jen and I and then the tour made forty
four million dollars exactly was in that window of what
I said. And I had almost everybody from that meeting
come up to me at some point during the tour
and say you were right. I was like, well, like, yeah,
this was our opportunity because you talked to the high
school musical kids. They made a ton of money from
the tours.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Were recapping Harrispray or we watched the movie because now
we finished, We finished the whole series and we recapped
all of it, and it's been a lovely experience along
with some you know, their reputic, a lot of therapeutic
moments and a lot of healing.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
But so you were and have always been such a
bright spot. But you are always truthful, but nothing but
like joy. Like when you would come on to the set,
like you felt like you were one of us.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
I was one of you. Yeah. I it's funny because
I felt the same way, like when I was on
when those freaking nine seasons I did so you think
you can dance? I felt like one of the contestants,
like yeah, yeah, the way that I related to what
was going on. And I wasn't there. I wasn't there

(07:40):
because I needed a job. I was there because I
wanted to get in the dirt with a bunch of
people who felt like like minded individuals. Yeah, to be
a part of something that felt very fun. Yeah. And
then I was exposed to how how intense and ruling

(08:02):
it was. Because I don't know if you know this,
but maybe I've told you, but I did. You guys,
right after I did an episode of Modern Family. Yes,
so we was right after that the Modern Family set.
I was working. I worked for five days for a

(08:22):
maximum of five hours a day. They were in and out.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, I remember you telling me that, and I used
that information to relay to other people of like do
you guys see this difference?

Speaker 3 (08:37):
And I'm saying by like these are for real, like
fourteen fifteen sixteen hour day like it was that. And then,
as I recall, Adam Anders told me that I was
the first director who went in and recordings.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
So you were the first and only only Yeah, and
Diane was there from the beginning, the very beginning, but yes, I.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Was also I'd also come into the choreography sessions, yes,
and and so because I was just doing because I
knew what I wanted, well, thank storytelling, and I also
wanted to understand what I had to shoot, like it.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
Was yeah, it was yeah, well you're yeah, I mean
you so much of your body of work included the
scope of dance and choreography and.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
In that way, yeah, yeah, I was we qualified, yes.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, way over class, like if only had a director.
Once Adam pulled me aside and asked me how.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
To shoot to shoot it, and how do I shoot this?

Speaker 2 (09:39):
I'm like, I understand that you don't know how to
shoot dance. That's you know, that's not a normal thing,
but like, damn you're asking me.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
Also, what I will say about shooting dance specifically on
Glee was there was definitely a formula. Yeah, people knew
what to do and you know who you know, everybody,
it like had kind of gotten into a pretty lockdown,
standardized Yes. So if you had just trailed the director

(10:15):
of the week before saw how any of it worked
your homework, then you would kind of know, yeah, you're
just gonna you know, we're going to start here, We're
going to go there, We're going to you know, then
we and then do a steady campass and then but
you know, it's like so, I mean, by the way,
I don't want for any of the listeners to think

(10:36):
like any of that was easy. It was just a
very a figured out way to that work done because
the musical numbers could only be you know, it was
at the at the most it was half of it
of your work.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Day eight hours. Yeah, they're like maybe eight hours.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
I mean compared to like we talked to JP who
was in Hairspray, and he was saying, like that final
sequence of you can't stop the beat too wait weeks Yeah,
and so there's the difference.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
And like we also, I could tell it was eleven
days crazy. I don't know if JP remembered this, but
none of the actors were ever in the room at
the same time except for one day of crossover crazy.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
Let's talk about for a second.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
Okay, So can I just launch and just tell you
very quickly the strange kind of for true. So I
don't know. I also don't know if you know this
about you. I don't watch my movies. I don't watch
any of my old work ever period. Interesting, like, once
it's released, I never really need to see it again.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Is it because you spend so much time with it you,
I mean you're planning, your shooting, your editing, and then
you do press Like there's so much time with it
you just need a separation.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
No, I think, well, there's part of it that's that,
like I've seen it, yeah at that point, and I've
seen it more than hopefully anybody ever. Yeah, but I
also know that for me, when I make something, when
I'm done with it, it's no longer than me, I

(12:12):
am now by making the kinds of any time you
make something that has that much heft or that kind
of like there's sort of that much story, like whatever,
any of that project is that intense. You're not the
same person that you were when you I mean, you're
the same person, but you're not. You don't feel the

(12:34):
same about many things because you've discovered things along the way,
and you've been through new things. You've learned new things
about actors filmmaking. But whatever, it is the newness of
telling any given stories. So what ends up happening is
it becomes strangely like an old prom picture. You have

(12:55):
funky skin, and your haircut is weird, and you don't
like what you're wearing and all. And I'm very very
nervous about seeing all the mistakes and all the course,
and so my rather than try to go in and
go like oh, because you can't change it, so I'd

(13:18):
rather just not look at it. And once I've done it,
it belongs to everybody else and all that. Now. I
was with somebody the other night who said, I've never
seen it, and I'd like to watch it, and I'd
like to watch it with you, And I was like
and it was not, so I like, so it was

(13:42):
so I was like.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Wow, that's a good line. Did it work on you?
It did?

Speaker 3 (13:49):
But I had to have ground rules, yeah, which was
I said, if I'm going to be engaging with something
that I'm actually nervous about engaging with right now, it's
maybe rational, it might be irrational. But because I know
that people like this movie and that it's you know,
I remember loving making it and all that, but I

(14:12):
don't know what this experience is going to be like,
So please don't ask me questions during it. You can
ask me any questions you want afterwards. I kind of
wanted to be quiet. We're going to turn out the
lights and I know we're sitting together, but I'm going
to be sitting there having my.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Own This is not a romantic experience.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
This is about me doing something that is tantamount to
like a very strange bungee jump into possibly a choice.
I'm hearing this. So my experience of seeing it for
the first time really since it came out was positive.

(14:51):
I'll not bury the lead. It was positive. There was
some very emotional parts for me. I was I had
it was a little outer body, my real headline was
this is a weird movie. Yeah, that was That was
a part of my experience. And then my other experience

(15:14):
was how good everybody is in it? Yeah, people are
really like and it's like I was like very taken
by how good people were in it, and so I
so so that was so So you're getting me having

(15:34):
just had a unique experience.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
Anyway, I understand. I mean in the small way that
I can, I understand exactly that feeling of I haven't
directed films, so I don't have but.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
Yeah, going back and watching something, well, they become like
your children and they become like, like you know, anything
that your part of ends up becoming a tattoo, aren't
you like?

Speaker 2 (16:00):
And of course you see other things of like you
wouldn't direct things back now how you did back then,
or like anything in any department. Yeah, but our overall
feeling is that it is so good.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
Oh my god, it is so good.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
It is stupid good.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
It is so. I think the thing is that you
make it look easy, and I don't think at that
time we knew how good we had it as a
public of having you do that, because you capture the
tone of what that show is. This sort of like
tongue in cheek we're aware of we're saying, like you know,

(16:42):
like hint, hint, not nod to the camera, but also
telling this really beautiful story. You're bringing out the best
of all of these incredible actors, whether they're brand new
or legendary, and you are shooting this out of these
dansical numbers, and like the dancing is incredible, the dancing,
And we just said we have a lot of questions
and thoughts because we just enjoyed it front to back

(17:04):
so so much, and I think people need to remember
and revisit if they haven't recently, because it is pretty
damn flawless.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you so much. We mean
it because.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
I was like on every on every technical level, and
it takes.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
Technically a very good it's a technically a well made movie.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
It is it is. It's very well made. And I
think I think back of like when you did Rocky
Horror for us, that was the first one, but when
you go back and watch it, but it looks and
feels different. It looks it feels like a film, and
it is so smart and intentional, like of course he

(17:48):
did that. Of course this is the same director, and
I don't think you know, we were in like Glee world,
and like obviously I had already seen Hairspray, so I
wasn't necessarily connecting the dots at the time, but going
back now and looking at it, like, damn, you're good. Yeah,
like you are able to create feeling through I mean,

(18:09):
Jenna and I talk about like wedding planner and walk
to remember all the time because you're able to You
have hits on hits on hits, but you create like
this like safety net in your films, where like you
know it's going to be good, Like whatever genre you're doing,
you know it's going to be that, and it's going

(18:31):
to be quality within that genre. And like for you
to be able to take a great stage musical like
Hairspray and then translate it and elevate it and maybe
it's even better than the stage musical. Yeah, it is
a really impossible thing to do. And I just don't
think people realize how.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Hard, how hard that is.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yeah, well that was a lot.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Sorry, it wasn't pent up since we watched it, and
I you.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
Know, I think it's really important and especially at this
phase of my life for the career, but like my life,
it's like being able to sit and actually authentically take
in that kind of kindness is very very important because
it's very easy to like go like yeah, yeah, thanks,
I appreciate you because you know, you don't know what

(19:19):
anybody's agendas or like what the thing. You know, like,
you know, compliments are pretty easy and cheap currency. So
I but you guys, having the appreciation for you know,
the form and you know, being able to see what

(19:42):
I was trying to do and feeling like I accomplished
some of it is a big deal to me. So
thank you. And the reality is, I think that the
movie was able to be the think because what really
struck me when I went back and watched it was

(20:03):
it was two things. Like, like I said, it's a
weird movie. But a lot of what makes it weird
is that a lot of the narrative scenes really just
do go from song to song. There's no dialogue scenes
in between them, and that that's weird. And I had
the I do remember by the time that I started shooting,

(20:27):
I knew exactly what I was going to do. There
was nothing to be so I had more time to
prepare and to figure out how I was going to
do that movie and also work inside of the writing
in order to accomplish that, because I always that was
like the big difference for me between the you know

(20:48):
and people talk about the transition from stage to screen
is close ups and being like look in people's eyes
and understanding if there's an authenticity there and what something
actually means to them and is And when you have
that kind of level of distance between a stage and
an audience, are you going to be able to still

(21:09):
sell the same kind of the depth of the emotional
stakes because comedy is still I'm very much like, if
I can't pitch it as a drama, I can't make
it as a comedy. So if the if the emotional
steaks aren't very authentic for all the characters, then I

(21:33):
don't know to you know, there's no hiding anything, yeah, right,
unless you never get close you know, everything at a
white chop. So I I thought about that a lot,
and then I was like, well, how am I going
to jump from this scene to that scene of this
and something? But what what new line gave me at

(21:55):
that time, which I said I needed and it was
very luxurious, was I said I since this is my
first movie I'm choreographing. I'm coming back as a choreographer
my former career. Yeah, and I haven't done it since
this is now my fifth movie. I hadn't done it
for four movies before then. I mean I'd staged little
musical nights, yeah, but I had done choreography. This was

(22:20):
statt Yeah, And I said, if I'm going to do that,
I'm going to need X amount of months by myself.
I'm going to start with one person in a room.
Then two weeks later I'm going to add two more,
and then three weeks later I'm going to add two more,
and then so I can build a skeleton crew because
I need to choreograph the entire movie before I start

(22:44):
preparing the actual shoot. Wow, all out of the way.
How long was that process? Like from you?

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Almost like three months?

Speaker 3 (22:54):
It was almost three months because I started because it
was a little stop and start, and it certainly wasn't
like every day I was in the studio, it was
me and and Fletcher, And then a couple of weeks later,
I was just sort of sketching the scenes and talking
about what each of the numbers kind of needed to be,

(23:15):
and then I brought in Zach and Jamal Zach Woodley
and Jamal Sims and then and Joey Pc. Then for
the next maybe it was about two months. Two months
we were then we were like in it. And then
finally in the last week I added, like, we brought
in like ten dancers if everything that we were doing

(23:39):
was actually going to work, because when there's five of
us doing all group numbers, it's just a bunch of
steps and talking about formations and all that, and and
I just needed the bodies, and so we did that.
That all happened in la and then we all shipped
out to Toronto. And now during all of that, I

(24:02):
was casting, right, So I was casting during all of that.
And the casting, you know, we saw easily over two
thousand girls for Tracy. But but the but in terms
of the casting of the dancers, we went to a
lot of cities really and all around looking for dancers well,

(24:25):
because I knew I could only bring so many from
the States, and then I also had to hire out
of Toronto. Wow, So it ended up being this very
strange split of people, and like the kids from the
Corny Collins Show ended up being we carried them through
the entire rehearsal and movie because wow, that schedule was.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
That's why they were so clean.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
So that they clean, but they that is a lot
of bank for a dancer on a movie that's crazy
money and so and a crazy big job, and good
on them. And then then slightly then for there was
slightly less kids that I had for the Seaweed group,

(25:11):
and that was mostly also La New York. The Corny
Collins kids were half La and half Toronto. Almost all
the Maybell group, the more adulty kind of dancers were
almost all Toronto all and those were the three groups basically,

(25:35):
and so but there was a lot of them, God
damn yeahcers yeah so there so I but by the
time we hit Toronto, Jamal and Zach and Joey, what
I did is they handled them, teaching everything, cleaning it.
And then as the adults started to come in and

(25:59):
the kid and the lead kids, oh, we actually had Zach, Nikky,
Elijah and Brittany very early also into that next rehearsal period.
They came in and they were they were just part
of the core dancers. That's all they were doing was
they were just they were also exceptionally clean y. They

(26:23):
they rehearsed, not like they were leads in a movie.
They were they were just part of a dance core
at that. That's great. Wow, that shows though.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
That's I think that's the difference of some of these things.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
Yeah, it was. It was very tailored in that way.
And then things got a little when John Travolta and
Chris walkin and Michelle and they started to come in.
Then those rehearsals were a little more private and like
like I think Joey was assigned. I think Zach was

(26:57):
a sign. No, Anne was assigned to Michelle, Joey was
John Travolta, Zach I don't know. Zach ended up kind
of floating, Yeah, I don't Anyway, it was like that.
It was like how we were hitting it. But I
would just be coming in and out of those rehearsals

(27:18):
and performancy things and all that. But they were drilling them.
What was that casting process like for everyone?

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Especially like John.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
John okay, So John is okay, So Craigs and Neil
Marren the producers had been talking about John doing it
and they were friends with him and for quite some time.
So when I came into the movie, it was the
first thing they said, is we would really think it's
great if it was John, And I said, yeah, I

(27:53):
mean if he would be down, Yeah, he can do everything. Yeah,
it would be you know. It's his return to musicals
from Greece. So and he is a song and dance guy. Yeah.
So they set up and he was the first one

(28:13):
and they set up a meeting, which John's I don't
know if you know any of the stories about John,
but he's a late night person. Oh yeah. I had
to meet him for dinner at like one thirty in
the morning. No, yeah, at a hotel in New York
it was, or maybe it was one, and it was

(28:34):
at a hotel in New York in the meatpacking district.
And I sat down with him for dinner at that
hour and we just talked and talked and talked. But
we talked a lot about musicals, and we talked about things.
He just kept saying over and over again, like none
of this works if you're not if you don't have
the right eye, and if you're not like a musical
person and you're not a musical you know what I mean.

(28:55):
It's like you to know that he was in what
he considered, you know, really stands yeah. And he was
also very clear at that point that we were not
going to like in his interpretation, in his version, we
were not playing in his drag he was a woman.
And so I think that was also a big leap

(29:17):
for him, is like he it was not going to
be in his mind, can't be. It was like he
was going to be playing a character that is a woman,
and this is what I'm going to do it Like, yes, sir,
sign me up. This is exactly what I want, because
if you're playing the other thing again in close ups,

(29:37):
I'm not sure I can get like Edna's more thing.
The other thing that he the biggest thing for him
in that was that he wanted to He wanted to
have the audience understand that she had once sort of
been a little sexier, which is insisted on her having
a waste, having a belt. He always wanted to have

(29:58):
a shape and I and so so I was like, oh,
he thinks Edna has a sexiness to her. I think
it was reflective of women from his family in his past,
bigger Italian women who had you know, big boobs and
a little bit more of a way and big hips
and all that, but weren't like trying to hide it,

(30:20):
So that to me is what that was.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, and that comes through in the movie.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
Yeah, I mean he loves to shake all that around. Yeah.
So so anyway, so that was that one, and then
after that came, I immediately went to Latifa for me
and I had made Bringing Down the House with her,
so we were.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
I had one of the most fun movie theater experiences
with my mom going to see that. Like, I remember
dying laughing in the theater.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
Literally could not make that movie today. It out and
certainly I would be allowed to.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Different times tis time capsule.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
Yeah, so I I remember boy died. I love making
that movie. Just being with those two every day. Oh
my god, crazy fun anyway, So Geenie Smart is so
funny in it, and Pile and like and Eugene.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Comedic legend, truly icons.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
So anyway, Yes, so I asked Dana to do it
and she very quickly said yes. The next one I
hit was Michelle. Michelle was the only person I wanted. Wow,
I really wanted her to do it, And we flew
up to San Francisco where she was living at the time,

(31:56):
and had lunch and I virtually begged her to do it.
And I and the and her trepidation was she has
a mixed race daughter and she and Claudia, she was

(32:17):
very concerned about how Clauda would feel about her playing
a racist in that way, Like she had a lot
of feelings about it. Yeah, And so after she'd had
long talks with Claudia, and Claudia actually encouraged her to
do the movie. She said, yes, wow, So I had
the stars of Greece one and Greece two.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
Yes, and she's brilliant in it. I also, I had
talked about how hard it is, I think in this
tone of movie, like you said, like to buy the
drama and the seriousness of it when everything is so heightened,
and seeing Michelle Feiffer just not a single break in

(32:59):
her eye of any of this, and it is unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
There's she has some moments that are actually kind of
chilling to like they're like like she meets Edna for
the first time and she says, you'll stop traffic, and like,
I think that's just so like I was like, oh wow,
or like her frustration while she's trying to seduce Wilbur.

Speaker 4 (33:21):
Like, yeah, there is there's something that I will never
the scene that I.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
I just like go like, how did I get away with? It?
Was her and Brittany in those gold dresses in that
white room with the cat and all of that, like
sitting there like what are they wearing? What? Like? It
was so crazy that Rita riot and those costumes beautiful.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
Oh good, and so many, so many like every department
just as firing on all cylinders.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
Yes, yes, So there was Michelle and then Chris. I
got on the phone with him and he just was like,
do I get to Hoof?

Speaker 2 (34:20):
And I was like, yeah, whose idea was Chris?

Speaker 3 (34:23):
I want to say it was me, But it was
very communal at the time, like like I think what
happened like it wasn't like and it was like we
had a list, yeah, go to and on the list,
I said Chris, and everybody very quickly was like, oh
my god, if you could get that, that would be amazing.
It wasn't like it wasn't like I was in the

(34:43):
shower and I went to Chris walking I had But
like you know, if you've seen any of his old
like even panties from Heaven, like any like his, you
know he was a great dancer and a and again
a true song and dance Man and so that was
that was that was a pretty easy thing. He just

(35:05):
said yes fast. But at that time, remember I had John,
I had Latisa, and I had Michelle who he done
Batman with. Right, Oh my god, so he had it
was like and he was going to do scenes with
Michelle again. Yeah, it was like this. It was like

(35:26):
it was it really came together for him. Then the
one that was Craig and Neil, the only other one
that Greg and Neil really were like, we'd really like
you to look at him. Oh, and actually no, it
was David Rubin, David Rubin, the casting director. It's like,
can you please look at James Marston for Corney Collins.
And I was like really, I mean I'd never seen

(35:48):
sing and he sent me something of him singing. I
was like, oh, like from Alan McBeal. And then I
sat down with him. It was so brilliant. We were
at Centralley in New York where barcent Trolley and New
York craiganil and it was like pre showtime. It was

(36:08):
that weird like you know, late afternoon light coming in
those We were what I thought was alone. There was
one other table in the place that the people are
at and we sat down there and it was like
for him, it was fairly like he wanted the job.
It's more like that, and I quote unquote I was

(36:30):
being sold. But the second I met him, I was like,
sweet baby Jesus, like yeah, like there's no way, yeah,
and we're finishing up the conversation and he's so charming
and yeah, you know, he's so yeah, and he was
so game. And then all of a sudden I heard
a rustling and the people from the back table came by,

(36:50):
and imagine, his back is to those windows. So I'm
looking at the windows and it's silhouetted, and all of
a sudden, this face leans in and she goes, I
loved you in the notebook, and I look and it
was Julia Roberts. No I shouted, and he saw her.
He goes, and I love you in everything.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Accurate response.

Speaker 3 (37:16):
That is a correct response. And it was when she
was on Broadway, and so she was.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
Like, oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
It was kind of a it was kind it was
a moment, but so that's how that So that's how
that that happened together. And then the kids we're all
just casting. I mean, I you know, I think it's
kind of out there, you know, like Zach did a
terrible first audition. Yeah, I didn't want to cast him.
And then my sister, who was a producer on the movie,

(37:44):
was like, you're casting him. He's going to be a
huge star. And I was great in this movie any
thing like that. And I remember the big thing when
I called him back was he was it was still
this big. It just feil still felt so Disney when
we were talking to him, and when I want there
was no sex appeal there. It was just like he
was super cute and handsome, but there was nothing really

(38:04):
smoldery like link. And then all of a sudden, I went,
oh my god, can you do it again? And don't
smile this time? And he said don't smile. I said, yeah,
just do the whole thing and don't smile, and he
never it was and there it was, and I was like, well,
thank you, And I said, can you just wink at
me that we're good? We're good? Crazy, I just get

(38:26):
you that that's really really good. Writtany just went on
record in talking about how she screwed up her first
audition and what we and what you know, how she
got back in to it and how she the movie
and I really wanted her for the movie, so when

(38:47):
and but her taped audition was terrible, right, and so
I was like she was just so clearly nervous. And
I made a movie with her already before, and so
I was like, I know, I know winning, but there
was a long line of girls who wanted to play
that part. Oh sure, and so a big stars and

(39:09):
so I was like, but she asked to come back in,
and I was like, I want you to come back in.
So so she did and she was great. Yeah that
happened there. Elijah was the first Seaweed that I saw
and he left and I said, that's him. I'm done. Yea,
I saw a lot more. Yeah, I got him.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
Do you know? I sort of grew up with Elijah
and like when he like I've known him, said, I
was like fourteen or fifteen, and I remember when he
got that movie and I was like one of us
like got something and like in this huge thing, and
I was like, of course, I'm ridiculously talented, so charismatic
and charming, like of course he's But I didn't even

(39:54):
know he was an actor, Like I knew him as
a singer, and like a dancer. And then I remember
like talking to him like, oh, I just did this
movie called Hairspray, Like what is that? Like I knew
nothing about it? And then there was billboard Like I
grew up, you know, like going to Millennium and Synthesis
on Lancaship in North Hollywood and we'd hang out like
right across from Synthesis and there's like a billboard there.

(40:17):
And then one day we looked up and there's Elijah
on the billboard for Hairspray. We're like, what is happening.
I was like, I can't believe a lie.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
Like bro, he came in, he sang run until that
and Mark and Scott were there, and the composer and
there's and Mark and Scott were there, and he left
and there he was just like I don't get better
than that. So and then I will tell the truth

(40:56):
is like there was a long line of people to
play any and New Line wanted Amanda and I was
on the fence about it, and they actually came to me.
They because Amanda was a big star back then. Yeah
on work. I just said I'm not sure. I'm not sure,

(41:20):
and they said, if you cast Amanda we'll let you
have Zach. Oh. I wanted Zach and they weren't sold
at that. Wow, okay, so they said, if you can,
I'll let you have Okay. I ast Amanda, I.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
Mean slam down.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
I mean she was great. She's a commedy genius.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
She brought the craziest illius wonderful. Yes, like it's like
lascivious innocence, like and like she was just so awkwardly
on fire.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Yes, and uh, it really was.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
It was. It was just wonderful.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
And her and Alison Janney together were.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
Yeah, oh Allie. Like when I asked, Allison, that's crazy
that Allison was in this movie.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
Yes, I know. Look, I hadn't seen this movie in
a really long time. And as you know, characters start
getting introduced, him like, what we still have more?

Speaker 3 (42:32):
Yes, Allison was like, well, my schedule in this and
I was like, you're in and you're out. Yes, Yes,
the thing it's like you only have these and I'll
shoot you out. Brilliant. She had done primary colors with
John and they and if you haven't seen her scene,
it's very early, it's very it's the beginning of the movie.
It's some of the best physical comedy. I feel like

(42:53):
I've ever.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
Seen it's like her tripping over the table in hairspray.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
Is you don't get to see her do that all
the time.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
No, no, no, no, She's just a she's just a freaking
genius anyway. So so yeah, so that's how all of
that ended up happening.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
And now, of course you have Niki.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
So with Niki, we always knew it was going to
be a very very very long, big process, and I
think part of it was also to be you know,
part of it was the marketing element of like the
search turn pund Yeah. So yeah, And what I will
say is in over the months and in all of
the people that I saw, when I saw Nicky's audition,

(43:37):
I remember going, oh, and then I went past it,
and then I went back to it, like in that
same watching session of watching like and I literally had
like fifty that I was watching, and I went back
to her, and then I went and watched some more,
and I went back to her again, and I watched

(43:59):
it a third time, and I remember texting or emailing
David Craig and Neil and I said, I think I
think I found her. I said, I think it's I
think it's going to be this girl, and they were
like what, oh, okay, you know, you know, it's like
all that it was still going to be a big,
long process because she hers I didn't see like it

(44:22):
was a taped audition that she had submitted.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
And yeah, what were you looking for with Tracy? Like
what was could you explain?

Speaker 3 (44:34):
I wanted her to be her age. I wanted her
to actually kind of be her age. I didn't want
the whole thing to be like how they did, you know,
Greece where everybody was thirty and that, Like I knew
that I wanted the kids to be young, So that
part of it I was looking for. It was like

(44:58):
a very authentic confidence inside of that kind of body shape.
But also this there's just a level of naivete and
a lack of consciousness, a lack of self consciousness, and
a lot of a lot of theater performers are very
self conscious there when they're performing, they're very aware of

(45:25):
who they are and what they're doing and all that
kind of thing. She just seemed like I'm singing and
here I am and like I'm just like gonna try
to do my bat you know what I mean? And
there was something very of it, something just really innocent
about it all though. Just it was like she felt
very untouched by all the outside. Yeah, to a certain extent.

(45:48):
I didn't know at that time that she was still
in high school, So I didn't I did. I had
no idea, so because that wouldn't have been that would
have been like kind of prohibitive because of like, well,
oh now I have to school her and like that,
Like yeah, I wouldn't have thought about it. Now, as
it turns out, she was graduating and she you know,

(46:10):
we told her like the day before she graduated, like
we might have told her the day of her prom. Yeah,
So she went the day she found out she got
the movie. Wow Yeah, so wow yeah. And you know,
I mean it's all out there about her working in

(46:32):
the ice cream store and all that stuff by Scream
Store and all that. So yeah, but it still was
a long haul and we had to really sell it
and there was a lot of you know, we had
to do screen tests, and she she had to fly
out to rehearse, like to audition dancing. So that's a lot.

(46:55):
And then she lived in New York, so she went
over to Mark and Scott's and she had to sing
for Mark on what they said, because I was there
actually for that, And what they said was, she nailed
good Morning Baltimore. But it's kind of easy to nail
good Morning Baltimore if you're one of those girls, they said.
What they the thing that always tripped up girls that

(47:15):
they were always looking for is could they really nail
I can hear the bells? They sell I can hear
the bells, so which I was like, Okay, I'm trying
to figure out, what about I can hear the bells?
Was would make you look for in that? But that
was Mark's thing for.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Sure, and she smashed it.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
So she got it.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
When someone like that comes in and is leading a
movie full of legendary seasoned actors, even Zach and Brittany
had been working consistently at that point, do you have
to take or what is your extra consideration if any
about sort of guiding her through that process rehearsal shooting,

(48:01):
like is there you know something you do too?

Speaker 3 (48:05):
Yeah? Well, again, she was rehearsing a lot before the
adults got there, so she knew the movie way better
than they did by the time they got it. So
a she had the confidence of a couple months of
working with me before she ever met any of them great,

(48:28):
I mean Zach and Britney. She met Quick and Elijah,
and because we were all thrown together into a rehearsal thing,
so any of her stuff about meeting Amanda Binds or
all that, it went away really really fast because they
were like, hey, hi, good to see blah blah blah.
And now you're in and you are exactly the same
as each other and none of you are getting separated out.

(48:50):
You are learning it at exactly the same time with
these same people who are dragging your ass along with them.
Probably going to be frustrated because the dancers are all
picking up, you know, I mean, but everybody was learning
the choreography literally at the exact same time. It's nice
playing field. Yeah, it made it much, and you know
what that is. It's like you're there's no room for

(49:12):
getting like overwhelmed about it job and you're all trying
to do it. So nobody all trying to do it.
Then you take breaks and you're all talking to each
other and you're.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
You now have this common sort of like trauma bond.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
You are all trauma bonded, everybody And if you're a
decent person, which all of them were. Yeah, and then
you're also trying to be friends with the dancers because
you're really impressed by the dancers. Yes, dancers are always
the best. Yeah, you know they're they're always an easy
hang like like they were. They became part of that

(49:48):
culture inside. Those are really their friends during the movie,
like they the actually became all really good friends and
there were really no sour that's great nice, which was
super cool.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
Now since you rehearsed like for so long, like all
the core dancers and a lot of musical numbers were
all done before going in and filming, and yet you
can't stop me or it was eleven days, like was
the filming process also like Fast and Furious or was

(50:23):
that bitcomer.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
You know it was? It was there was still too
much to do, and particularly that sequence, there's so much
narrative story going inside of the dance stuff that I
had because it's it's one thing to just cover the dancing,
it's another thing to be covering all the leads and
what each one is going through in the machinations of
all their plans, right, they had everybody scheming in that totally,

(50:49):
and I only I remember for that sequence, I only
had Michelle for two and a half days. We did
Thanksgiving and she had to leave to go to Thanksgiving,
I remember, and so she actually I was like, Michelle,
I'm trying to figure out how to move you around them,
and she was like, Adam, I will just stand over here.

(51:11):
I will, but most of the time if you want
me just pacing back and forth, but things like that,
then you never have to do it. And I said, okay, great,
so then I can. I can on this on this
third day, I can do every shot where you cross
onto the stage and leave all of that, and then
on the other day. So those first two days of
shooting her was all of that, her tabulating the things

(51:32):
and looking and all that. John was not there except
for the one day where she walked on stage and
they crossed. Crazy. That was the only day that they
were there at the same time. Was not there the
whole time. Like it was like I had to shoot
those out separate. I had to keep everybody so separate

(51:53):
that I could fabricate them there at the same time
and also get all that done. The other part of
that sequence is that John Bolta's hair and makeup was
like a five and a half hour.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (52:12):
So by Wednesday, our call time is four thirty, no
interior stage. So we didn't start dancing some days until
three in the morning, no stop what not to shoot
the acting.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
Out, Oh my gosh, and then.

Speaker 3 (52:37):
We'd start dancing. And it was There were days when
I was like happening, I was in the scene, like
I like the whole.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Like yes, like I loved all the cameos, I loved
seeing we.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
Were trying to figure out where to put Ricky and
Mark and Scott and so I was like, let's just
be the William Morris agents, you know, Zach, and I
stuffed them all in there. I got them all in there.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Yeah, you're always in everything, like the bad Alfred Hitchcock.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
Uh, gayday Alfred Hitchcock.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
Yeah, it makes weird movies. And so that was that
was particularly hard. Now, the thing that was kind of
the surprise in that scene, because nothing else was much
of a surprise.

Speaker 4 (53:34):
Was.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
When I went to put it together, I realized I
had forgotten one number and I hadn't staged Hairspray. The
song Hairspray I forgotten. I had forgotten to make it
up and they're like, because in the script it was

(53:56):
legitimately just written as background stuff, never supposed to be
like a featured thing. It was just what was right
down and everybody was doing anything like that, right. I
made that up in fifteen minutes. No in it. It
was a Saturday. It was a rehearsal a Saturday, but

(54:17):
we were shooting it the next week.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (54:20):
And I just was like, walk around, give me some cans,
just make a fountain to do a thing. And I
put that on their box and then you know, then
back and Joey went and sort of drilled them a
little bit, but it was fast, like they had not
any length of rehearsal for that, and Jimmy and I
was like, I.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Forgot, I forgot, how dare you?

Speaker 3 (54:46):
Of course, the balls on hairspray when I was shooting it,
I remember as that was one where I was just
sort of off to fly. I did that one on
the fly, and while we were shooting it, the intention

(55:06):
was still to keep it his background. I loved it
so much that I totally kept the whole thing in there,
like like I remember when the editor cut it together,
I was like, oh no, no, no, this is in the movie.
This is going to be in This is too dumb
to not be in them so good, it's so it's

(55:27):
so good.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
Kevin has a burning question, but he has to ask you.
Remember Jenna, of course, I remember you were talking about
the cans. I have a stupid question. How does the
hairspray quote unquote look so good coming out of the
cans on film?

Speaker 3 (55:51):
Is it water?

Speaker 1 (55:53):
Just Water's so good?

Speaker 3 (55:54):
It's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
Ken must have it.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
Something in it. It's not hairspray. No, no, no, they would
have all been choking to death. The I do think
I know during that number it was water. However, I
think it's some of the backstagey stuff whe they're doing it.
I think that was hairspray. It looks great. It looks

(56:21):
like in the opening of I Believe in right before
Nicest Kids in the Town, where they're all backstage getting
ready to come on to camera. I think that is
actual hairspray. But I think I still have those ultra
clutch kins somewhere. Oh my god, Oh my god, come
over and steal them.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
Right and all the things you've done. I mean, I
know one of my favorites of yours. But in all
the things you've done. Where does hair spray lie on
your love? Love a meter?

Speaker 3 (56:54):
I have three movies that I know I feel very
good about making that I have less of a complicated
relationship with than the other movies. How about that have
a complicated relationship with a bunch of my movies. Okay,
the movie that is still the most sticky for me

(57:16):
in terms of my heart.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Yes, that's my favorite.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
Yeah, so now it's it's the certainly not my Best Maid,
It's It was a very short schedule. It was the
closest I had ever done to an independent. It was
only my second movie, my first movie when I started

(57:44):
working on Walkermer. I don't think Wedding Planter are even
come out yet, and so so I was, I can't
believe Wedding plan it was your first movie. Yeah, crazy right.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Wow, because it just feels so gigantic like that was
such a huge part of.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
It was it launched those two into their whole like
rom com thing.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
Yeah, like, oh, it's so good. It's still so good.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
That is one I definitely I want, I say, to
see my first thing.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
Yeah, oh yeah, it'll just.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
Be like I know, it'll feel like a document of mistakes.
I just can't. I can't because there were things I
would have never done the same way in that movie
that I would do now.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
You know, there's still really a great movie that I
love to watch all the time.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
Yeah. I mean I remember very charming in it.

Speaker 4 (58:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
And there are some really good actors in that one too,
Judy Greers and that, Yes, but just good in it.
And as I remember, and Joanne Gleeson really fun.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (58:56):
Yeah. I walked to Remember, Like I always feel like
Walk to Remember is the kindest thing I've ever put
out in the world, like that that has Like when
I made Walk to Remember, I was also like kind
of pretty in love, and so I felt like I
was making that for the person who, of course come

(59:17):
home to find out that you're screwing around on me
the whole time. But my heart was very much in
the space of love when I made that, and we
were all very innocent back then, you know, see the
other kids in the mood, like I felt very I

(59:42):
was really new to my job, you know, this particular
job I had very there's no money to make that thing,
and I was just kind of running and gunning. I mean,
the scene where this is actually the truth the scene
where she is is standing on two sides of the

(01:00:03):
state lines on the state yard in two places at
the same time, like that scene in the lit by
car headlights was we had to shoot that and I
shot that entire scene, both sides and everything in twenty
minutes because she had run out of time. I mean
there are scenes where people we were running onto set

(01:00:23):
and the actors are wiring themselves, and like it was.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
It didn't matter though the Andy's hours ran out.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
She was seventeen. She pumpkined. She turned into it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
The feeling of that movie, of sitting in that movie
theater and watching that film.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
She turned seventeen the first day of shooting Stop, we
had her birth, which was in the graveyard. We had
in the graveyard graveyard.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Oh my god, it's truly, it's just one of those
It's a very also like Innocent tender film that none
of it mattered. The story was there. They were so committed.
It was so hardfelt. I mean, I burst into tears
one hundred times in that film. I'm never I will

(01:01:15):
never forget sitting in that movie theater and like how
my life changed after watching that film. I'm not kidding.

Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
That's one I think, I like, I feel like game
Changer again. I can't say if the how anybody can
perceive the movie is good or bad. It doesn't matter.
I just feel like I did a good thing by
making that movie.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
You did you know you did so?

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
That really did so. I think that that one is
really sticky. I think that Hairspray is obviously it's it's
in my you know, it's in the top two of that.
I have a very unique fondness for bringing down the House.
Not because of it again, but because working with Steve

(01:02:04):
particularly changed me. Like that, to have this person that
I had looked up to for most of my life
as a crew a genius, a very formative voice in
my head to help me that made me laugh and

(01:02:26):
pulled me through things. And also I just I just
to have that man tell me he thought I was great.
Like more like that. I now here's a fun fact
that guy who cheated on me and walked to remember

(01:02:47):
we broke up three two weeks, three weeks before I
started shooting bringing down the house, we ended up breaking up.
I was in I was destroyed. I started antidepressants, but
there was like I remember one day where I was
crying so hard in my office that and Steve and

(01:03:09):
Latifa were out in the lobbie waiting to come rehearse,
and I was like, I can't, don't bring them in there. No.
I put myself together, trying to pull myself together, pulled
myself together. They came in, they saw me, they were like,
oh my god, what's going on? And I was like,
and they were they were like's anyway, those two rallied
around me. What it did, what it gave me, because

(01:03:34):
I was so psychologically kind of blown out in a
different way I had. I suddenly lost all my fear
about directing. Steve like I walked in and he would like,
he'd do a take and he'd come back, and he
was like and it would have been great, and he
was like eh, and I was like, it been funnier
and he was like and so like you'd go back

(01:03:55):
and do things and so so what became really really
beautiful between us was he really loved making me laugh.
He loved making me laugh, and I loved him loving
making me laugh with him and her and that, and
to see these people treat me like a colleague, those

(01:04:20):
people who I had revered for so to actually treat
me with the respect and the like a colleague. That
was completely changing for me. I like Betty white'es in
that movie Joan plow Right, like Dame Joan Plowright, Laurence
Olivier's why that Like I had like the group of

(01:04:44):
people that I had the opportunity to work with on that.
So that has a very very special place in my
heart and one of the few things I've shot in LA.
In fact, I think Lee was the first thing I
shot in LA since I had made that movie. Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
Yeah, it was like a total return us and Modern
Family got you back to LA got back.

Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
But you guys need to know, like I really really
loved my time in the studio with you guys, Like
I really and then you guys in the craziness of
that moment always being available to do those benefits for.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
Me and coming in, Oh, we love doing that for you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
Yes it was I mean it wasn't for me, but
it was for them. I know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Of course, we were so happy to I.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
Would ask you guys would be there, and it just
meant the world to me, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
But I think our relationship with you has always been
different than I think our standard relationship with like a
director who came in where like seeing that you only
directed three episodes feels crazy because it feels like you
were a part of the entire experience with us. And
I think it's because you you're so open. You've always

(01:06:04):
been so open. You always did sort of integrate yourself
into like our group, like I said earlier.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
Like we would you'd come over for game nights, yes, yeah,
or we would or we would you know, and you
always like were there for like to do extracurricular you know,
the benefit all that kind of stuff, and you know,
of course we were capitalizing on the moment of what
was going on with you guys. But at the same
that is the only good about being famous is that

(01:06:31):
you bring attention to something.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Yes, and that's most people were not asking us to
do good things like that, and you very quickly started
bringing us in on those things. And that felt like
such a privilege to be asked to be able to
be a part of those things because I think we
didn't even know that that was a possibility of like

(01:06:53):
doing giving back in that way.

Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
Yeah, it was very early in your yeah that chapter
for you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
Like yeah, but you always included us and it always.
I think we're forever grateful for that. It always felt
like such a cool thing that we didn't know we needed.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Yeah, I appreciate that. I'm going to keep you guys around.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
Oh you're not getting rid of Yeah, We're always here,
don't worry.

Speaker 3 (01:07:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
Yeah, I mean even during you know, like the pandemic,
like we when you could like start seeing people again,
we like you were one of the few people one
of the first people I saw.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
We hung out in a park or something.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
Yeah, yes, it was god, Yes, yes, made cookies and.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
You were like Adina has been recording in her closet
for this movie.

Speaker 3 (01:07:39):
Right, disenchanted. But like, wasn't I mean, not to bring
up the dark stuff? But wasn't that right around when
the Naya tra Yes, so I remember that kind of
brought us back. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
Yeah, well it's funny also, Shan, because I remember the
day after Corey's news came out, we were in New York. You, me, Harry,
and Cord were all in New York and everybody else
is in LA So we met up, right, like to
bring up the darker, you know, but like we always

(01:08:13):
like found ourselves like with you in these times and
like you were part of the family, and it felt
like that, you know, and it just was interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:08:22):
It felt like I was but I wasn't, but I
was enough, and you know, it was like but which
is all very right, because again, regardless of anything that
happened internally, that OG group is the only one who
knows h really understands and knows. Yeah, and you can

(01:08:44):
relate and tell the stories all you want, no one
will ever really understand. But you know, it was you know,
it's like anything, it's a personal experience. Yeah, and it was,
and it was a shared experience. Yes, to watch the
play that people spun their own plates and did you

(01:09:06):
know own thing was pretty pretty wild. I mean, the
the sadness of like, you know, losing our friends was obviously,
you know, super profound, and how those things happened was
like so ending. But at the same time, it's like

(01:09:29):
they they were such an important part of my life
and my experience and my and they were like those guys,
they were friends. Those were friends. Yeah, like I I

(01:09:49):
actually I will never I have pictures of freaking and
I are right behind me. Actually right, no, some are
back there still, Like I still talked to her every
once in a while, I'm like, girl, you would have
died if you saw this, you know, did I tell

(01:10:10):
you this? Like, I mean, this is sort of dark,
but it's still funny. Like the day before it happened,
when I talked to her and she because we were
talking about what we were going to do the first
thing we were going to do when we come out
of COVID, and I said, I said, uh, I think
I just like want to go like do like a

(01:10:32):
like a huge restaurant thing. And I and she was
like serious, and I said, so what are you going
to do? She's like, botox my dance? Oh god, you know.

(01:11:01):
But so I still talk to everybody and yeah, all
it's it's all where does it sit for you guys?
I mean, do you have like what I can only
imagine you have, like a really complicated relationship with it all?
But at the same time, is it sitting now in
a more happy place or kind of a more like place?

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
I think after doing the podcast, it's it's it's actually
the latter, Like I think, going through this again and
giving ourselves grace for what we realized we went through
and what we were doing while we were going through
it definitely is a lot. I'm a lot more forgiving

(01:11:43):
of myself and everybody around us, who I think I've
come to realize nobody really knew what they were doing
or were equipped to do this thing at the best.
Like we were all just doing our best, right. Yeah,
nobody got training, nobody was how to run this whole thing,

(01:12:03):
be the leader you want, like be a part of
this and be happy every day. Like there's just like
nobody really knew how to do it. I'm much more
forgiving of everybody and of myself for going through all
of that. So I think definitely now I look back
on it in a much more peaceful and happy place
than I think I did two three years ago. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
Yeah, Yeah, I've always had a generally positive outlook on it.
I agree with Jenna. Watching it back has actually been
very helpful and therapeutic, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
If not, there's a lot of really funny that show.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
Yeah, there's like a lot to be proud of. And
I think, you know, going through each episode, you are
remembering who worked on that episode, remembering like our experiences
with you or whoever might have been on that week,
and how it did. Ultimately, I think like when dark
Things happen. When sad things happen, they take up more space.

(01:13:06):
They sort of you know, like poison the well, what
they plague the waters. And I think those are the
things that and you know, understandably talk about and remember
a lot from that. And what I think for both
of us, what we've been able to do is sort
of obviously those things have happened, and we acknowledge that,
and it doesn't erase that. You know, situations weren't perfect

(01:13:30):
some of the time, and we've lost really really close
friends and family members. However, you know, we did that
show for it was seven years of our life, and
most of the time we had a great time and
we got to play dress up and be clowns, and
even though tours were tough, like we got to sell
out arenas and do some of these things. So it's complicated.

(01:13:52):
It's all those things at once.

Speaker 3 (01:13:54):
Yeah, Because it's like you're sitting there going by millions
and millions and millions and millions of people would have
quite literally killed to be you, yeah, you know, to
have those opportunities to do those things, and you're like, well, yes,
but you don't really know that. And they would have
said they had said I don't care.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
Right, yeah, And I think growing up in like music stuff,
I had a lot of that. And I think you
were saying because like you come from dance world and
like crazy schedules. I was also used to like sort
of not being treated the best and used to crazy hours.

Speaker 3 (01:14:30):
So to me, it was those things did not affect
me a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
Yeah, and so I could just sort of for better
for worse. I don't know if that's healthy or not, but.

Speaker 3 (01:14:42):
I think no, no, no, I think I could just especially
at that age. I think when you're in your early
look when anybody asks me, like, what's your advice, the
only advice I was just say yes, Like like, don't
say no to opportunities, like when you have the opportunit
unless something is that you think is going to physically

(01:15:03):
harm you or like is going to compromise you morally
in a way that you could never never look in
yourself in the mirror and just say yes, because you
never know where something is going to lead you, and
you definitely don't succeed by saying no, right right, you know,
I mean because we all know people who have self
sabotaged themselves out of big careers. Oh yeah, by you know,

(01:15:28):
expect you know, either whether it's ego or fear or
a healthy combination. Yeah, stops them like, oh, I think
it's either going to be this or that like that,
but really it's sort of self solvatory. And I'm like,
I got nothing by saying no. I only have had
the opportunities that I've had by saying yes.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
And you were all learning on the job, and it's
like we're learning how to deal with you say yes,
and then as the next opportunity happens, you figure out
how to do.

Speaker 3 (01:15:52):
It and then guess what, it never looks like you
think it's going to look like.

Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
Right exactly, And it's like we've made some of the
best friends that I could ever have dreamt of, you know,
well beyond my wildest beliefs, and it had some of
the most life changing, great experiences in the.

Speaker 3 (01:16:07):
Craziest rooms with the craziest people. Absolutely it's like yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
Like we had a great time. We got to have
game nights with you, you know what I mean. Like those
types of things are things I'm eternally grateful for and
like I always say, like being able to drive through
the paramount gates every day for work, or after hiatus
to come back like this is crazy. It is crazy.
We get to sit in this room with the hundreds
of people who are on this set every day, and

(01:16:37):
everybody generally was happy to be there for the most part.
And now you know that people enjoy the show. Like
when you know people are enjoying the thing you're doing,
it's like when you're singing and you're dancing and we're
making people laugh and feel good. It's it's such a
We were so lucky to be a part of something
like that, even though there were some you know.

Speaker 3 (01:16:57):
Don't think about those poors who would come in in
season three as like either semi regulars or new people,
and I was like, oh god, what is then getting.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
Into there was something about like when you came in
that was like there is Zach already knew you and
we had known who you were from Like so it's
a building trust. Yeah, there's a building trust that. I
feel like people were just like willing to go a

(01:17:27):
little bit farther for you, which was awesome, you know,
and Rocky Horror too.

Speaker 3 (01:17:33):
Rocky Horror of it all just fell really it was
really fun and I remember Amber was happy to have
that song.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
Yes, oh you had that name. Shows Too.

Speaker 3 (01:17:47):
Is crushing so good? Crushing it is again, I haven't
seen it and forever.

Speaker 2 (01:17:53):
Listen to it. You were in that recur studio.

Speaker 3 (01:17:58):
I remember all I remember.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
Oh my gosh, I was so scared to be in
a recording studio with you. I was terrified and I
wasn't even really singing.

Speaker 1 (01:18:08):
That's so I used to having people like directors there too,
And you were.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
Seeing so many movies that I had seen and loved
that I just was really really nervous.

Speaker 3 (01:18:17):
Oh that's crazy. And all I was saying was just
to the left though, intimidating. You guys know me now
I am. I'm People are like, I'm like, you must
be getting me scared in this world.

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
Yeah, no, it's shan.

Speaker 3 (01:18:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
Well, it was really good to see you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
Thank you for giving us so much of your time.
You're just so talented and so kind. And thank you
for the gift of hairspray and your friendship.

Speaker 3 (01:18:50):
And and thank you for making my time on your
show so special and being my friends. I really appreciate and.

Speaker 2 (01:19:00):
I'm so excited for you have so many great things happening.

Speaker 3 (01:19:06):
I start scoring yesterday for Man with the Bag, which
is my Christmas movie with Arnold Schwartzenegger Alan and a
host of great theater people in it, Jay Harrison, g
Murray Hill, Uh right, like Asakochy, Kyle Mooney. There, there's

(01:19:29):
so there's it's it's inane, funny and it's sweet. And
I am Jane Krakowski is so crazy in this movie.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
I can even it's everything you do best.

Speaker 3 (01:19:41):
Yes, just there's something for everybody, that's what and h
and working with Arnold was absolutely dreamy, which was you
gonna knocked me over with the feather. I had no
idea what to expect, you know, and he's just so
freaking lovely anyway, and so I I enjoyed that. And yeah,

(01:20:06):
then I'm starting this uh crazy independent world of Wonder
movie that I'm doing that's like it's like an airplane
style movie.

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
Yeah, on a train. It's a plane. Train, it's a train.

Speaker 3 (01:20:25):
The President of the United States President, Yes, I mean
and uh but yes, it's a trained disaster movie. Times
do come true, yes, and so there will be much
stupidity in my immediate future. But that's you know, it's
an independent project that we're doing the power of saying

(01:20:47):
yes a year and a half ago. They were like,
would you go? And I was like, you why not? Hey,
we'd be fun here we are.

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
Yeah, you are such a great Like it's great every
year on every season of Drag Race there's you and Jamal,
and it's like you continue to do all these like
you show up in all the right places, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:09):
I started that when I when I went on Drag Race,
I realized, like, I've never as queer coded as all
of my work might be. I've never made anything or
with queer people as characters, and I need to start

(01:21:30):
being a part of the community a little bit more. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
And you know, I don't. I don't think of life
in that way. I was like, gosh, i feel like
I've been out for so long obviously, and I've been

(01:21:52):
I'm not quiet, and I've raised some funny for causes
like that, but it's like it's almost like I've lived
on the fringe is creatively, and so I was like,
I might as well jump in now, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:22:06):
Yeah, Yeah, we're excited for it, beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:22:10):
I'm just excited to make stupid that makes people laugh. Yes,
you're too good at it. I'm glad you haven't stopped.
You don't ever stop. All right, you guys, all right?
Thanks Adam.

Speaker 1 (01:22:21):
We love you, it's good to see you.

Speaker 3 (01:22:23):
Thank you for time. God, thank you like hanging out
with my friends.

Speaker 1 (01:22:30):
Yeah, I know, so nice.

Speaker 2 (01:22:32):
I love you, Love you bye.

Speaker 1 (01:22:35):
Thank you Adam for doing all this time to come
on the show and spill the beans, spill the tea.
We are so grateful to Adam for his friendship and
everything that he has given the world with his art
and also given Glee and just giving back. And we

(01:22:55):
are just so grateful for Adam Chankman. We hope you
guys enjoyed the episode. Your homework assignment is Zoe's Extraordinary playlist,
and there may be a Skylar Aston interview as well,
So hold on tight and come back next week. And
that's what you really missed.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
Thanks for listening, and follow us on Instagram at and
that's what you really miss pod. Make sure to write
us a review and leave us five stars. See you
next time.