June 5, 2025 • 57 mins
The biggest Gleek and NLT fan is on the Pod!
Singer-songwriter Betty Who is bringing the heat this summer with her 'Out of the Darkness Tour,' but first, a pit stop with Jenna and Kevin to talk about her song "Somebody Loves You" being featured on Glee's sixth season! She shares how she found out her single was going to be used on the show, her obsession with NLT (Kevin's boy band), her big Broadway debut, and the biggest revelation ever!! She auditioned for Glee! Hear all about the 'Tina' inspired song she sang, what she told the Glee team they needed on the show, and what it was like meeting the cast!
Betty's new single "Sweat" is out now, and for tickets to see her on tour, visit BettyWhoMusic.com!
For fun, exclusive content, and behind-the-scenes scoops, be sure to follow on Instagram @andthatswhatyoureallymissedpod!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
And That's what You Really Missed with Jenna.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And Kevin an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to and That's What You Really miss Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Today is a very special day because we have one
of our friends, a very talented singer and actor and
whose song, as we were friends during the show, ended
up in one of the episodes, which was very surreal
and really really cool. And it's Betty who.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
You know, Betty, Betty who freaking who?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
And it's used in a really pivotal moment.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
In the series Huge, which is coming. It's just so
much fun. It was fun. We've been friends with Betty
and then and you even more like her. Told Betty,
I think that the song was happening or whatever.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
We'll find out in this conversation. But she's great and
we love her.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Betty, who is so much fun that like for her birthdays,
she used to have Brittany Parks and Hannah teach us
Beyonce dance routines amazing and so like it's her birthday.
But what a treat for us, I mean a gift, yeah,
a true gift for us. But this is our talk
with Betty. It could have gone on for eight hours
(01:18):
because we just get to Gavin, you know, but she's
so talented and can do anything and everything, and so
we get into it all. So here is Betty who
or or or oh my god, how you going?
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Hey Jenny? Literally where you been?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Or she's birth children?
Speaker 4 (01:55):
I know you have and you're always thoughted on that trampoline.
That's what. That's what you said.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
It out with me, bouncin haven't babies. That's it.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
You look younger than when I met you.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
You're aging backwards?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, what have you done? What have you got me?
Speaker 4 (02:13):
I can tell you what I've done, which is I'm
truly shocked that you said that, because you know us
white women, I think we actually tend to age the worst.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yes, anybody?
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Yeah, so yeah, just curdling over time. My theory is
that it is hair theory because I was a short,
short haired girl for a long time, and I think
that I don't really know where I'm headed. I've just
been like trying to do I think I'm in a
period of my life which is very in the definition
(02:44):
of insanity is doing the same thing over and over
again and expecting different results. And so like, the hair
was very like in my head was like this is
what I have to do. People know me this, this,
and now I'm like, oh, can I do whatever I want?
I think I can't. Yeah, And the longer my hair gets,
I think the like stinkier and littler. I look, I
(03:05):
think I look like. I think I look like ten
year old me. Do you know what I mean? In
a way that's not like I'm just like a stinky
little girl.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
You know, Kevin's the jammiest kid in town, so we've
got to.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Sink the jammiest kid in town.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Okay, speaking of why I haven't seen Aristotle.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Look, you got in the effort, you gotta. I have
to go find him. I'm like, where are you? I'm coming.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
I might go ill. Okay that's good.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah like that because I was doing the same thing.
I'm like, babies.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Your all of your good will that you use on
trying to find Kelly is going to being patient with
your patient.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yes, that's what you have a partnership. I can see
Kelly on your behalf.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yes, and yeah, I'll try to stay patient.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Okay, you won't be the warehouse parties at three a m.
You know I can do that for you.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Wow, I can't actually it's so funny. I make so
much music and like so much of my culture is
like I love to dance, but I'm also tired.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
And old and so like in like wiggling girlfriend, I
am trying to hit like a Sunday afternoon, four pm
on Santa Monica Boulevard.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
You you text me at ten thirty saying where are
we going? I say to bed.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, I'm sleep. I don't listen. I don't know how
these gays do it, because I went to my first
warehouse party, like a couple of months ago, a warehouse yeah,
and I'm like I need to see what this is like.
And I'm looking around. I'm like, I am exhausted.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
I'm tired.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I'm the only one.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
That's the other thing, right.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, I don't love.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
I don't love a drug. No, marijuana is my spiritual
that's my that's my medicine.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
But that's what you want to in a dark room.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
You know it's not And everybody else is having a
different time. And for me, I just get like, I
get hot, I get I get nervous. All of a sudden,
I'm like, I'm going to die and I'm going to
be here. This is where I want to die a
warehouse downtown at four in the morning.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
No, the I gotta go.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
I don know how they do it.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I don't know. I do not know how they do it.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
What are we even talking about.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
I don't know people, well, speaking of speaking of, I
don't know how they do it. You congratulations, you made
your Broadway debut.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Pivot.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yes, you know, one of us is job.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Keep it on track.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Okay, but I love it because I obviously that's.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
That's my whole feed. My Instagram feed is Broadway.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
So I'm just seeing like you hopping up on my
Broadway feed, like all my worlds are colliding.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
But you got which was shocking. I was like, wait
what but also makes a lot of sense. Yeah, it
was shocking. How did like how the hell?
Speaker 6 (06:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:08):
That is such a great question. You know. I want
to say that the casting director saw my New York
headlining show when I came through on the big.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Tour, and you can say headlining.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
My headlining shore and I want to say that it
was just I I got a call from my agent
and he was like, I got something crazy to tell
you about. And I was like okay, and like, my
you know, listen, I've been an independent artist. You know,
it's like I I my bar when someone tells like
(06:44):
I used to be like, if someone on my team
is like I had exciting news, I was like, oh
my god, my song has gone number one at radio
overnight and all of my dreams have come true and
I have one billion fans. When did I can't believe
that you've called to tell me this, right? And then
they call and they're like, well, I'm going to pay
you twenty five dollars to post seventeen posts on your Instagram?
(07:04):
Does that sound good? And I'm like totally, totally, thank
you so much for the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
So when my agent called and was like I have
something really crazy, I was like, Okay, they're going to
want me to do like, you know, a song for
free in Times Square for theing or whatever, and like
I'm down for the cause, you know what I mean.
It's like I wanted to be in theater. I want
to be in the world. I've been taking meetings, my
finger guns have been out for a while in their community.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, so this is something you were searching for.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Yes, yes, I actually, to be honest, I was searching
for opportunities to write in musical theater even more than
I was to perform. I just like, I'm so unusual
and I feel as though it is really hard for
me to find opportunities to perform outside of ones I
create for myself because I'm six to two and I
like don't fit in a like very easy box. Actually,
(07:54):
speaking of auditioning, have we discussed the fact that Glee
came to my high school and auditioned kids at my
high school and I sang True Colors, Jenna, I'm sure
you're familiar. I know that you're goin. I sang your
version of True Colors as my audition for And by
the way, you know what I've said, which is so funny.
Me a little bisexual six sixteen year old seventeen year old,
(08:16):
I was like, I think you need more lesbians in
the show, and I think I would do great at that.
It's literally what I my pitch, which is so funny
because then the entire show since I said that, like
pivoted to really be mostly about lesbians actually, And I
was like, Okay, well you didn't need more representation you
did find just on your own. But yeah, I mean
little high school or in high school, I don't think
I ever have revealed. I've waited for this moment to
(08:38):
tell you about it.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
What you told me about the NLT fandom, but you
never told me about this.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
I am NLT is number one fan the way that
I ride for I listened to NLT a lot, and
I'm not even embarrassed to say it. I shouldn't be.
The songs are great. You're you're out here then about
this is good? You didn't.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
This is how we became friends initially too. At Sophia
Bush's house, myself was on here a couple of months ago,
and Benny looks at me and starts singing an NLT song,
and I was like, who don't know, because I'm like,
I'm in a safe space. I'm like at a friend's house,
(09:20):
so this person.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
ISID, yeah, no, And I'm like, giving fan energy this
is so difficult. And this is something that I actually
learned a lot about this time of my life when
I met you, guys. Is it's like trying to figure
out how to I think ultimately I have fan energy,
but not in a spooky way, not like I want.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
That's why I recognized that. I was like right away,
I ran towards you.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Yeah, I ran into my arms. Yes, I did feel
very much as I moved to LA that I spent
a lot of time being like, oh my god, I'm
obsessed with the thing that you do and people are
like whoa, and I'm just like, oh, oh no, I'm
so sorry. Do you want me to ignore you? And
I've never heard of you before? I guess yeah, that is.
And then I like moved off of my my fan line,
(10:08):
and now I've circled back to being like, well, I
think I have to be myself. That's what everybody says,
that's apparently what I'm supposed to do. And so now
I'm just like I lead with this is my other trick.
This is my this is my networking, this is my
I'm thirty something trick and in the viz for a decade. Yes,
I don't do any of the Hey so great to
see you and have someone look at me and go
(10:28):
I go, hey, it's me Betty Who. That's what I do.
I walk into a situation I meeting somebody or re
meeting someone, I go hey, it's me Betty Who, and
they go okay, and I'm like, oh my god, I
loved you in this thing. And then they're like, that
was Betty Who, even if I remembered or didn't remember,
instead of being like hey, and then wait for them
to be like, I'm so sorry, can you tell me
you're hey, it's me Betty Who. And then when I
(10:49):
introduced myself, then they go and I go, I'm so sorry.
I can you tell me your name? And I've been
generous in offering mine and now it's reciprocal. It's really
working wonders for me. It's shifted.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It's a great mood move.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, it just opens the door you don't have.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
You don't have the fan of NLT.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
I'm going to do that from now on. I'm just
gonna say, hey, it's me Abody whom away.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
That is the way.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
The audition for Glee, he said you were searching for
theater opportunities. Were you a musical theater girly?
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, very much of course.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
And was it a big deal that they came to
school for your school, like with everybody freaking of course?
Speaker 4 (11:37):
And I remember Shelby the Girl Who, because it was
like a competition and it's like you won, and if
you won the competition at your school, then you went
into like a smaller pool of like the other schools.
Do you know what I mean? I was a cellist
at Interlock and I was not a singer, so I
auditioned as a vocalist, but it's not something I'd ever
had any like training or experience.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Really, so rude, that's so rude.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Every time I guess on we have like we find
another hyphen.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
No, that is so rude. How good you have to be?
Like you don't even like I'm not even a singer
and then you just had a career as a singer
playing out.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
This cello on tour.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
You know, that's the question. It's so funny. That's something
that I struggled with a lot. I think because my
in my head and it's all my mental illness for
no reason other than like mental illness in it right.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
We all stop ourselves from doing we probably should be doing.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Hundred percent, Like my biggest song being a cover being
I Love You Always Forever by Donna Lewis, and me
being like I'm never making a cover again, like I
wish it was my music. It's like I should have
made four albums of covers. It's probably but the person
that I identify myself as as a cellist was very like
in the wrong place. It's sort of like I was
(12:51):
this big personality and I like didn't know how to
work out at cello because all of the other people
I looked around at wanted it so bad and I
loved the cello, but I didn't want to practice eight
hours a day so I could make it into an orchestra,
so I could like be a serious, buttoned up person
who like played classical music all the time. And I
love classical music, and I've come so full circle to
(13:14):
like loving that pot of myself and my history in it.
But I think when I was starting Betty Who, it
was actually such a like pensul and swing away from
the thing I've been doing for like because it's like
I wasn't professional because I wasn't being paid for it.
I was paying an enormous amount to study this thing,
but like I was playing cello four to six hours
a day. It's like hogwarts for music, you know what
(13:35):
I mean. It's like I remember the feeling of being
like this is as close to doing this full time
as I will probably ever get because I have realized
that I don't have the you have to like want
it you have to have the drive. And like there
are these girls from Korea whose families are sacrificing everything
so they can come to interlock in and practice every
(13:56):
minute of the day. And I was like, hey, I
love that for you. You got it like callouses that
like came out of their fingers from practicing every day.
And I'm like, WHOA couldn't be me. I'm like, you know,
trying to like make friends and like write songs in
the basement while everybody else is like playing playing classical music.
So I think when I think about using cello, I
(14:16):
was like started to dip aitew. It's been very very
rgus and slow getting me here. But like on my
lost record, the last song on the album is called
grown Up scirl Pot, and I'm playing the guitar and
the piano and the cello in that song in that piece,
and like playing cello on a song for my record
(14:38):
was like felt like a huge stele. But it was
so funny. Just the producer, who I've known for so long,
SAME's Martin Martin Johnson, was producing this record and he
was what, I pulled my cello out, I'd like brought
it to we like I drove to Utah and I
like made this record in Utah with him, and I
brought my cello in the backseat of my jeep and
I like sat down with my cello to play on
this number, and he was like, whoa, I am looking
(15:00):
at twelve year old you whoah. It's like the second
I'm sitting with a cello, I am instantly the ten
year old you know playing it. So I think that
now I'm ready to accept that as being really beautiful.
But I think when you're like a young twenty something,
you're like, noah, different, it.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Would reject everything from that time. It's just yeah yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
And then like a cello, I think of like cello
as being like the sexy you know the Bond girls.
You remember girls who were like they wore short skirts
and they had the electric instruments and they their hair
and they were playing you know, movie music. Yeah, that's
like that's the kind of cellis that. Now I'm like, oh,
I could do that.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yes, I want to see Betty Who tour.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Yes, yeah, who knows? Who knows it will be on
this one, but it might it might before maybe when
I age out of dancing with my knees can't take
it anymore. That's when the cello will really come back
into play.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Another thing that you can just do really well. And
the Betty Who experience is great.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
If anyone who's I'm going on tour the summer, I
hope I'll see you there. Yes, you too. It is
mostly the royal you, but also mostly you too.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Specific Okay, out of the out of the Darkness tour.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Yeah, Jenna's Jenna's getting a sitter and she'll be there.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yes, I'm getting a sitter and I will.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
I've been your backup answer before you have.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
You have your inner somebody loves you a music video.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Well, speaking up, I had another transition.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Hello, oh no, we can't go there yet. We need
to finish Haites Town. Oh my god, I need to
know how this happened. So we got a call.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
We got a call for something.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
We really got a call and my yes and the
and the bar was on the floor for me. I
was like thinking that they were going to get me
to like, you know, introduce I don't know, uh don
a Mentelle somewhere or something. And my agent was like,
we have an offer for you to play for Sephonie
and Hadestown come.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
On, offer, I said, did you say offer? Yeah, somebody
wants me?
Speaker 4 (16:55):
What is me? It's me? Yeah? Yeah, So I think
I felt it was like Cloud nine. You know, there
are moments like I know you both know you look
so hot, so hot, and then you're like, what was
(17:16):
it all for? And the question remains a lot of
the time, and then like for no reason. Maybe it's
because of all that hard work, or maybe it's like
some random person thought of you and it just was
you were lucky as hell and that phone that phone call,
it accumulates, and that that phone call was one of
(17:37):
them where I'm like, I didn't even ask for this
and it's just gonna happen. This doesn't feel fair.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, no, it is fair because I have seen you
grind and work for so long and like it's not
easy being an independent artist, and like every vision you
do it all like since you're like before your first album, and.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Well, I know, I really have known you guys for
so long.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So long, sorrow long.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
It's really crazy. I do think about that because I
also feel like I am a manifestor in a lot
of ways about like the first famouses that I met
in Los Angeles when I came out here and I
remember being such I was like a gleek, a bit
huge gleek. And also John Talker Musta is one of
my favorite childhood movies and Bush was like one of
(18:27):
my gay awakenings in that movie because she's like, I'm
going to kiss you, and I was like, why do
I have to pee? Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Because she has the most perfect face known demand that.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
I'm speaking of aging backwards. She is not Kardling.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
I don't know. I don't know what is in her genes,
but good god, I know, so to like.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Go to one of my first being like invited to
my first like social thing in La and it was
like you guys and Sophia Bush. I was like, I
think I did this. I think that I think my
vision ward speaking of my vision board. You know what else?
One of my favorite momes from Glee is safety Dance
because Kevin McHale speaking of another thing that you're so
amazing at is also dancing, and you did not get
(19:08):
to do enough of it. I'm seeing you wheel around
in this chair, moving your upper body like your life
depends on it, and I love that you you sold it.
But getting to see you hop up and out and
do give your gift a little spin out there. Safety
dance is one of my favorite moments in the whole show.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Well, I got to be a Betty who backup dancer
with Kelly for one number one, So blood a dream
you were?
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Actually you were the first person you told me, Kevin
that somebody loved you was going to be in the show.
Did I do it?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Did I do?
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Jenna?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Where I pivoted us into the right place? You?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah? Can you can you tell? Because I remember rehearsing
your number. I remember shooting your number because also Becca
said I smelled, which was like a really important thing
to learn about yourself.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Yeah, that's nice.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
You'll never forget that there unlocked somebody.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Telling you that you Yeah, it was, it truly was.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
But wait, so you knew and told Betty that her
song was me in the show?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I guess, But you didn't know.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
I recall.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Didn't you have to approve it?
Speaker 4 (20:14):
I feel like in my recollection, which now I think
might be made up given how little either of you
seem to.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
No, no, don't trust our memories your Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
What I recall is getting a text from you, Kevin
being like I think that somebody loves you. It's going
to be in the show. And I wanted, I wanted,
I want to sing it, but they won't let me.
It's now going to be Darren and Chris and I'm
so jealous, but I will dance my ass off and
I was like wait, and then I remember like the
official offer coming in, like you know, because you have
(20:46):
to miss some music supervisor likes approve the sink or whatever.
But I do think that you were the one being like,
I think this is going to happen. And then it did,
and I was on the phone to want my One
of my best friends is Lizzie. She is the biggest
gleek that I know, and I did. I texted her saying,
huge news for Lilly Perkins. I'm going to be on
and that's what you missed. And she sent me like
(21:07):
tears in her eyes, like so exciting, really exciting for her.
Exciting for me too, but you know I mostly lived
vicariously for her. Yeah a good friend, yeah yeah, yeah,
except to Telly, yeah, but full circle yeah yeah. And
I texted her about this and she was like, she
was like, do you know what a culturally significant moment
(21:28):
Glee was and you had a song on that show?
Do you know who doesn't have a song on that show?
And then she named all these people who were like
much more famous and successful than me, and she was like,
they don't have songs on Glee, but you know who
does Betty for you? And I was like, honestly, honestly, Linds.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
We need champions like that.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
You need champions like that all the time, just to
remind you of all the winds.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
What a great memory, because that absolutely is a text
I sent.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
So Kevin had the behind he had the behind the scenes,
he knew before well.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
And we would get the initial script because we would
find out later when songs were changed before we actually
shot them, that they would assume, I think that we
could get any song we wanted.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Yeah, well yeah it was powerful, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
System, yes, so they would put the songs in there.
And Kelly was in the writer's room at this point too,
so I'm sure you know if someone was asking for
a suggestions.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Between you and Kelly both being like, hey, you know
what we should do, I feel like I feel like
one of you was the one who suggested it, Like
I know I know that it was because I had
a homie putting putting in a good order.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
It was not, but that song was already doing. You
didn't need us that song maybe maybe I don't know,
a life of its own, and it was it was
taking over the internet, and you know, it was a
gay anthem and our show was gay grey. It was
really good, good, very yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Yeah. I mean that's why it was so impactful to me.
That's why I'm like a seventeen year old and he
was like auditioning on the stage interlock and being like,
I think I would make a great lesbian for your show,
and then singing a song. Is because I felt like so.
I love the fact that it was shining a light
on sort of all of the parts of and obviously
I'm sure you guys have heard this a billion times
over in your entire lifespan. But like the things that
(23:18):
made me feel uncool, Glee made shan a light on
to make it seem way cooler than I felt about it.
And so the fact that I loved musical theater or like,
and also the catalog of music that I was introduced
to because I was a young person who had never
heard dream On before I watched the show it's like
I loved that it sort of it really gave me.
(23:41):
I have a friend who uses the term unbullied theater
kid a lot to describe people who have a lot
of energy, and I actually think that Glee probably spawned
like a lot of unbullied theater kids, and maybe we
need to be like this much more bullied, you know
what I mean, just a little bit of humility around me.
You're like chipped away from the edges.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
You know.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
But it did give me a sort of confidence that
I that I actually I wonder if I would have had.
And that's how I became a fan of LTS because
I was like, oh my god, he's so great and
I love this boy. And then I googled Kevin mchall
and I was like, he was in a boy band.
I also love boy bands.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I did not know this was the road.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
Have we ever? Have you ever spoken this much about
NLT on this show? I hope that my episode is
actually it's not the Betty Who episode, it's the NLT
episode isisode?
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Oh god, we haven't spoken this much about it.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I don't know we have not. For those of you
who don't know, I was in a boy band called
NLT before you know.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Well you and a girl band, and I didn't know about.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
It, like I was not.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I was an unbillied theater kid.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
I love that and it worked and it's worked out
for you? Really well? It did it? Did you were
also on Broadway? I was did you? What was your experience?
You loved it? I think we're gluttons for punishment. I
think you have to be if you.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Love it, It's like, really, you really do.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
It ruined my life, but it was also the happiest
I've ever been both at the same time. Do you
know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (25:02):
For sure?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Was it the schedule that ruined your life? Like it's jarring?
Speaker 4 (25:07):
It is jarring? Eight times a week is like maybe
too many times. I would need to say I'm gonna
go I'm gonna go out on a limb and say
that it is many times a week, and it is. Yeah,
But I think I think it just did a number
on my body. I felt like, and if I when
let me correct myself, on me manifest it. When I
do it again, that's right, I will have so many
(25:31):
more tools to help support me because I have the experience.
But it nothing will ever be like the first time
you do it because especially coming from a totally different
scal Like I thought I was like rock and roll,
Like I play four or five shows a week on tour,
and like there are some people like pop stars who
don't do more than two three shows a week because
it's like so much on your body. And also you're
(25:53):
like carrying an entire show by yourself. It's not like
you're a part of an ensemble.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
For sure.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
So I thought that I was. Yeah, I thought I
was like rock and roll. But that's team sport. As
you say, Jenna, that's actually one of my the things
that I love the most about it. Like I think,
like I always wish That's why I'm obsessed with NLT.
Just to bring it back to We're just.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Connection.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
Sorry, yeah, where he's gonna candy episode, He's like, we
can't air this. No. The reason I'm obsessed with boy
bands and like you know, is because I I think
there I have this fantasy that I always wish that
I was in a group because I am such a
social creature by nature. Like when I played tennis, I
loved playing tennis, but I didn't playing softball because when
(26:40):
I was on the softball team, then I like had
people to reflect like I feel like I'm I'm a
really good member of a team because I have a
great attitude for the most part, Like I you know,
like I was. I was basically accepted to my performing
offs high school because I had a really great attitude,
not because I had the talent. He was like, you
need so much help with cello, and I think I
(27:00):
can give it to you. But the only reason I'm
really letting you in is because I think that you'll
be a really great addition to that we need. Like
good vibes, bring the vibes.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Similar.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, like I'm not I'm going to give you Like
I'm not.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
I'm giving an a plus in.
Speaker 6 (27:21):
Vibes personality, right, But I think, but I think that
that is what I loved about being on Broadway and
being Yeah, I loved it.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
It's like pressure is just so different, and I loved
being someone who, even if I was having a horrible day,
could be like, look at us all it's easy for
I don't know if you had this too, Like it's
easy enough for me, who's like coming from a totally
different world. The world that you're in is the hottest
world to have. Like gratitude for yes, and so walking
(27:55):
into my first day of Broadway rehearsals, I was like, eny, yeah,
you know what I mean, Like I was ready to
be present and soak it all up. And it's like,
you know, it's harder for me to do that in
music because I have so much I'm like, what are
we doing?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
But it's also all on you, Like it's your project,
it's your vision, it's your thing. This is like, oh,
I know the music is good.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I'm stepping into this.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Yeah, well that's crazy too. I mean, you guys are
like actors and in a you know, you have so
much more experience obviously being on camera and acting from
a different way than I do. But that was something
that was really crazy to me. Is sort of the
like coming from music, it is all in my control,
for better and for worse. And so to walk in
I remember, like the director on our first day rehearsals,
Rachel Chapkin, my queen, She's like, we were having a
(28:47):
table sort of conversation, me and the guy who's going
to play my husband, Philip boy and my boyfriend obsessed
with him. We were all sitting talking and someone asked
a question. The assistant director is like what time are
we rehearsing tomorrow? And I'm like, I think the schedule
says four pm. And Rachel the director looks, she goes, hey,
you don't have to worry about any of that stuff anymore.
You're just here to do this part. And I was like, whoa, yes, yes, ye,
(29:08):
thank you for the note.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yes, I love a.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Note, thank you for the note. I will I will
internalize the note, I will sleep on the note, and
I will return and we've been ready to work. Yeah
really yeah, really really shot me out of my body
for a second, being like oh so I think. But
then it's like there's a choice that they tell you
to make, and you're kind of like, I don't want
to make that choice. So it's like the push and
(29:31):
pull of the control versus giving up control.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
So nice.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Sometimes it's nice, Oh my god, tell me where to
stand to say and I'll see it.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
So that's how we live. They're just tell me when
to start talking, and I'll do it.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
And I will give you seven eight yes, a little blair,
and that's it.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
The live experience, because you have so much experience performing live,
going on tour and all different kinds of venues.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
But versus a theater performance.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
A theater acting yeah in a character, Like what is
that terrifying? Like was that a whole different level or
was that like, Oh I got this.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
I think I am ultimately really proud of the way
I showed up on my first night, obviously, like and
it grows so much. That's something that really shook me
to my core because like I'm building a tour right now,
I'm about to go onto this summer. Normally, what we'll
do is we'll stop in a city, a smaller city,
and play a smaller venue than the rest of the
(30:43):
venues as a warm up show. You go, this is
the first time we're running to do. If you will, Yeah,
where you go? I'm gonna I'm going to fall on
my face, and the people in Phoenix, Arizona are going
to be really kind and generous with me because I'm
going to say, this is our first show. You're like
seeing a work in progress. Thank you so much. You
don't like open in front of everybody who's going to
come see you, And that's the time they're going to
(31:04):
come see you, do you know what I mean? Opening
night and I remember seeing Heather Headley in the Color
Purple on her opening night when she took over from
Jennifer Hudson. Yes, And I remember she dropped a line
and she and she went and she picked it up
and she just and it actually, to me felt so
exciting to see you, like the process of her going
(31:25):
this titan of performer that I think can do no
wrong dropping a line and nobody died. Yeah, and everything's fine,
and she handled it gracefully and it actually gave me
goosey seeing her fall back into it. I'm like, oh
my god, how exciting. So I think I am ultimately
really proud of how I showed up at my opening night.
But I remember I opened like September fifth, and I
(31:48):
was in it until February fourth or something like that.
So in that span, I remember like Thanksgiving being like
I think I'm eating this up, but like that's two
months later, do you know what I mean. Yeah, So,
like in a pop show, we have one warm up
show and then it's tight and we are doing it
and no changes are being made and we are hitting it.
For me, like in a month of rehearsals and the
(32:10):
director looking at me being like, well, you're going to
find it. I'm like, what do you No, No, no,
that's not an answer to my question, what do you
mean I'm going to find it? I need to know
what it is so that that's so interesting, like you're
thrown out to go. I'm going to find this in
front of you. And it is the most vulnerable thing
I've ever done in my life. And I've done some
(32:30):
strange and vulnerable things, yes, And I think the experience
of like showing up and finding it in front of everybody,
to then arrive and know that I and start to
be like, oh, I think I've dropped in. Of course,
I do wish that the part where I arrived and
went I now I figured it out. I kind of
do wish that was like September fifth, do you know
(32:52):
what I mean? I think that's a goal that I
would have it to go back to a show with
is shortened my amount of time that it took me
to get comfortable and drop in. It's like that was
two and a half months, Like I'd love to do
it in six weeks next time or part.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Of the magic though, I feel like I feel the
exact same way as you. But when I hear people
who do shows for like years or something, how do.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
You do a show that.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
No idea, but the fact that the key seems to be,
like the one consistent thing everybody seems to say is
that they are finding new things things, yeah, every night.
And so maybe I'm saying this more for me than
for you, but I feel like.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
No, yeah, but that's a part of it.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
But like yeah, like sort of like I guess the
grace that you give yourself to sort of explore that
where pop world, the perfectionist musician in us is like, no,
this has to be right, this has to be my
vision immediately, so you can see exactly what I'm able
to give you as opposed to this is a complex character,
and you're seeing a full character and embodied on stage,
(34:04):
interacting with other people as other actors are coming and
going y. And so for your own sanity to not
get tired of playing a role for five months or
wherever long you're doing it is to be able to
make yourself excited every night too, with the possibility of
finding something new.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
Well, And like, you know, I felt so lucky because
Haiti's town is so epic. It's like it's not you know,
it's much less five to six, seven eight than I
feel like my personality is do you know what I mean?
It's like it's giving art, it's giving Eric. It's the
first time I saw it. I remember being like, I
(34:44):
don't know if I get it. I know it made
me feel something, but I and I'm pretty I'm pretty smart,
and I walked away being like, I know that it
made me feel but I have so many questions, and
it's like I wish I was in rehearsal. Yeah, and
I watched it so often when I was in rehearsals,
(35:04):
you know, I would like for rehearsals just like standing
at the back of the room and watching the track.
And then I did the moment where you're staying on
the side and you're like following the try was like
following Joelle around that she did her performance. And I remember,
like being in the show three months in being like, oh,
that's really beautiful, Like there's it's so dense. Yeah that
(35:24):
I think it. It gave me so much opportunity to
continue that exploration that you're talking about, keV. That's like
I am still finding how do I make This line
has never really made sense to me, And I'm just
saying it because I have to say it because this
is the time that I say this line. But now
all of the other lines I have figured out what
they mean and how to make make sense. And now
(35:45):
this line is the one that I'm going to spend
the next week trying to make it land and feel
not like I'm coming out with my body to say
the line that I'm supposed to say before I like
drop it. You know, I also learned so much about
and Jenna, I'm so curious to see like your experience
about this too, like I.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Learned, and.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
Film and TV is so such a different mode than theater,
and it's such a different embodiment to me, Like because
in film and TV something I think I'm really good at,
or like music videos, or like doing anything with camera,
I'm thinking about camera and I'm thinking about angle on
camera and where is the camera and find it's like
that it's a part of your the interplay of your performance,
(36:26):
and in a in a theater setting, of course, all
of that is gone. And I learned so much from
watching because I tried to see a lot of theater
while I was like while I was in rehearsals and
getting ready for the show, and then when I left
the show, I did like a week after I closed,
where I saw a show like seven shows in. I remember,
(36:48):
and I learned so much about like what being dropped
in means, Like that's such a like dropped in, like
you shut up, Like what do you talkking about?
Speaker 2 (37:01):
True?
Speaker 4 (37:01):
And I saw it and I like remember being like, oh,
it's the thing of making yourself the most alive and
open and present. It's about being present, and like so
much of my pop music life, I'm like, yeah, it's
like I'm I do feel present, but I'm in my
(37:24):
I'm a little bit more inside of myself thinking about
what I'm doing and serving. And it's not the same mechanism.
And I thought it would translate a lot and it
doesn't at all.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
And I for any it's like this may be a
little too specific for any. No, it's never never understand this.
I really will Beyonce tours before Renaissance. It's the pop
star perfectionist, you know, the little sort of we're going
to hit these fun She is working, yes, and then Renaissance.
(37:58):
She's dropping lyrics, she's talking to audience members. She's never
looked more alive on stage in her life. Yes, Yes,
and we feel Yes. The same, but like when you
see somebody who's quote unquote dropped in the even if
it's in a stadium or if it's in a theater,
you feel that as an audience member.
Speaker 4 (38:18):
Yeah, and the Heather Headley dropping her line and I go,
but nothing has ever been more human or alive or
like in front of me. And I think that it's
so funny because culturally we grew up in the same
era of like obviously Beyonce is such a kind of
the peak of you know, performance sort of. It's like
feels like so often people have been chasing her for forever,
(38:39):
whether it's like when people were on stage or like
she's such a trendsetter as far as like how to
do the thing that we do in our so growing
up and like studying her, I have spent so much time.
I feel like this is also a bonding moment for us.
Was like really talking about Beyonce on this level, like
I love single Ladies, where like the performance from Glastonbury
(39:02):
the end of time, but do you know what I mean?
And I feel like that a version of her informed
so much of what I actually learned about like perfectionism.
But I actually think that's the thing that for someone
who wasn't a Beyonce fan in that era, that's what
was alienating to them as they go. I get that
(39:23):
she's good, but I have a hard time connecting with it.
And I never understood that because I'm like, what do
you mean?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah, because like the boy bands are Britney Spears, it
was all perfection. Everything was, yes, absolutely, and it's.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
Not like free painting. And I think that, and like
when I see free painting at work in pop music,
I'm a little bit like, can we get some structure
in here? I want a little bit of five scent,
And so finding the balance of that, I think is
something I'm watching her do because she's like had children
and has less, you know, I think it feels more
(39:57):
free in a way, and so I think that it
really does seem to be a balance between those things.
And I think that's like a really great example of
me being in Hadestown and being like, I'm supposed to
be this thing, and then I'm like, but I'm thinking
about it too much, and then I'm like, no, I'm
in the room, and it's crazy. I felt very much
like I was playing a video game that was the
(40:18):
same video game over and over again, and each performance
was me trying to get a higher score. I'm trying
to get the perfect score on the game, and if
I trip over myself here, it's like deduct ten points.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
You know, It's like funny, Yeah, that was That.
Speaker 4 (40:32):
Was the experience I sometimes came. I felt like I
was like yeah, like you know, you like wind up
the toy and then all of a sudden you're like
off to the races again doing the same thing. But
I did ultimately fall in love with it, and it's
changed the way I approach performing because it's so much
more of that like in the room, coming from you know,
my soul to the audience. I feel so much more
(40:54):
connected in that way than I ever did before I
did it. It's pretty crazy, you get it.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Do you think you were able to appreciate that experience
and the ability to be present and notice all those things,
like was because of your age and experience beforehand, Like
if you call me old because you're elderly.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
Because I'm ancient. And Siri jumped in just now she
was like, I'm sorry, did you just call her old?
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Did you need me? Because you know it's I think
it's when you especially if you're doing something for the
first time. It's sort of like like fight or fight,
and I need to figure out how to do this.
I'm gonna be in front of a live audience eight
times a week. But it sounds like you were really
like grounded and able to pay attention to the whole
experience as a whole.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
I think that that is definitely from experience, just because
I remember listening, Man, you guys must have like so
much to say about this, and I'd love to hear
what your thoughts are on this. Like I remember listening
to a podcast about it was BJ from the Office
talking about being on the office and being so overwhelmed
(42:02):
by the experience and the success of the show that
actually he didn't really enjoy it that much. And he
looks back and he's like, man, I really I actually
missed it. I like this is what they talk about
when they talk about missing it. Yes, And I feel
like there's been so many moments in my music career
where I haven't enjoyed the whole point. That's the whole point.
(42:24):
You know. It's like, I'm not rich, so if I'm
miserable as well, then I'm doing something wrong, you know what.
I mean, it's like I'm not doing this for my health.
I'm like trying to find joy and vibrate at passion.
And you know, music is like the thing that brings
me the most emotional satisfaction, whether it's making me cry
(42:45):
or making me laugh or making me dance. It's like
it is so the lifeblood of the joy in my experience,
and so to then spend ten years working in it
will really make you hate it. And I am active
trying to work on you know, reapproaching music from this
place now of sort of taking a little bit of
time off and going I really want to be happy. Yeah,
(43:10):
that seems like.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
A requirement now, yes, yes.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
But I do think that going into Hadestown because of
the experience that I'd had in music where I did
feel a little bit like OHM as my life so hard,
I'm getting flown around the world to go play shows,
and I'm miserable. It's like I hated being that person.
Even as as I was that person, I knew I
was doing it wrong. That when Hadestown came and I
felt so lucky because I felt like I do feel
(43:34):
like I've worked really hard for so long and having
a lot of ways actually not reached the benefits of
so much of that time and effort that I've put in,
which is like an investment. It's all an investment to
get an opportunity like that that actually felt like it
had been dropped out of heaven. Like for me, I
was like, I'm not. The one thing I'm not going
to do is miss this. And I will say out
(43:57):
of the hundred and I want to, I think it's
one hundred and sixty seven shows.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Personally, I think I can count to one two shows
where I was like, I don't want to be here.
I hate this. I am full autopilot getting through the
show because I am I'm dead. I'm done. Nobody look
at me. Don't perceive me. This is not my day. Please.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Yeah, it's that's ratio, ratio.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
That's inevitable.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
I expected it to be higher, but I was. I
really made an effort to when I walked into the
building to be like I'm going to go say high
to stage management and I'm going to knock on the
doors and be like hey, everybody, it's me many who
and I'm so happy to be here and like I
know that it's funny, Like there are some people who
were like, uh, like with all your joy, like are
(44:44):
you so happy to be here? And I'm like I
get that. And if that's not your time, I understand,
and I don't have to bring this to your front
door either. But that's for me the way that it
felt accessible and kind of kept me present in the
fact that I was literally living a childhood dream, because
it's like when you work your whole life to live
your childhood dream, then all of a sudden, it's hard
(45:06):
to drop in and be like, oh my god, I'm
a pop star playing show for fans, Like yeah, there's
so much work that went into it. It's hard for
me to then like oh my gosh. And then you
like get to be on Broadway and you're like no, no, no,
this is like I have not spent the last ten
years auditioning for Broadway shows.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Yeah, Like yeah, that did.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
That makes that a little bit either more or harder,
you know, to like be like I've worked so hard
for this, like of course I deserve this. It's like
a different energy to approach it like me, yeah, you
want me, which is a different vibe.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
But that's the fun Broadway vibe. That's the fun vibe
to have.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
When Somebody Loves You ended up on Glee. It was
also one of those moments of obviously the show was
not necessarily at its peak at that point, no, I'll
take it, yeah, but it was also like, yeah, this
is my friend and like we were all number one, you.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
Know, introduce me to all of you guys. That's like
how the video first Friends Yeah in La was because
Kenny found my EP online and shared it with all
of his friends, being.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Like, this is sick. Basically happened.
Speaker 4 (46:17):
Yes, Kenny found the EP that's from from I Recall
to My Best Recollection. Kenny was a little SoundCloud kid. Yeah,
my first EP was free online and he said, somebody
loves You hits. I think it's even before the viral video,
do you know what I mean? He was like it
was really a treadsetter. So it felt very serendipitous, and
it was such a like I'm so grateful for like
(46:40):
the moments that do happen like that, whether it's Haiti
Town or like me getting the you texting me being
like I think we're going to do Somebody Loves You
on Glee. I remember being like, oh my, Like that's
a moment where I get to go, Like I can
directly shoot back to being in my body when I'm
sixteen watching on my like weird little laptop in high school,
(47:00):
like the newest download I bought those seasons on Apple,
do you know what I mean? Like before I was
like I was a fan and I was also downloading
the albums like my entire iTunes. I remember I did
like a six hour road trip to go make some
music when I was nineteen. In the entire drive, I
was listening to the Glee soundtracks, do you know what
I mean? Like it was such a huge part of
my young life that then I got to the fact
(47:24):
that I got to be a part of it in
any kind of small way felt so unreal and like
such a satisfying moment for me.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yeah, but I'm so.
Speaker 4 (47:35):
I'm so curious about you guys, like that feeling of
sort of you were in this huge moment and when
you were in it, where you like, I'm having trouble
being in it, or like, how can you even possibly
be in it when you don't even know how big
it's going to be? Like I do want to know
how you felt about that at the time. It's probably
a huge question.
Speaker 3 (47:52):
I think towards the end in retrospect, like I wish
I had I resonated with, like BJ, like I wish
I had enjoyed and appreciated that time of being so
young and so on top of the world and just
being able to really basking it. I don't think I
(48:14):
hated it, but I also didn't love it as.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Much as I could have.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
So there's definitely like a vibe that I, if I
could go back, I would be I would be smiling
every day, you know, like there would I would be
knocking on people's doors and saying hello.
Speaker 4 (48:28):
And you must also be like it's never going to end.
That's the other part of it. It's like it went
for so many seasons that there also must have been
a part of you that.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
Was like around season four, we kind of new classes
came in, things started to people started wanting to do
other projects. We were so hot at that time that
like you think you're never gonna stop working after that,
so you're like, get me off this thing that made
me and let me go do the new thing. And
that's when we kind of lost that connection. And obviously
(48:57):
we came back at times and found each other again
and came you know, left, but a lot of people
left at the end, and for me in particular, like
I left through halfway through season six, and then I
didn't come back until really like this the finale, to
like really appreciate it. So I definitely wish that I
had had a different outlook towards the end. But I
(49:18):
think in the beginning we all felt I felt very
attached to the show and very emotional towards it because
it was my dream coming true.
Speaker 4 (49:29):
Yeah yeah, fighting in a bottle, and you were a
part of it, especially at a time when like we
didn't have seventeen different shows that were about like kids
who dance. Now, I was just like now a huge
part of culture because Glee made it that, like you
were on the forefront of that.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
It took longer for Kevin to like lose that luster,
like he made it really really far, I really really
really far. Like I give him way farther than all
of us, Like he was the last one standing, probably smiling,
so like I take you longer.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
But I think that comes from my experience of not
having success, like being in the boy band for so
long and working so is so hard at it, and
we didn't really get there at all, And.
Speaker 4 (50:18):
That's so crazy because like when you're in like a
industry plant situation like that where they pick boys and
they put you together and then they give you the song,
it's like that also must have felt like all my
dreams are coming true, but and it is so much
hard work. And then you're like shooting the music videos
(50:39):
and you're like, I'm shooting the music video and I'm
like signed to a record label, and like all of
these crazy producers and like execs are like having these
conversations with me that the like putting that in front
of you and then sort of being like, oh, but
this isn't It does give you a different perspective.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Totally, because when I had also been trying to act
for forever and I would do little guest spots here,
So it was like the best combination of all the
things I was interested in and trying to pursue professionally,
and then the magical accident of it working. And as
someone who had, you know, come from not a successful
(51:18):
music career, like seeing the charts every week and being
able to talk to the chairman of Columbia Records about
Beyonce's leaked singles or talk to the President of Columbia
about how like stories about Adele recording someone like you
were like I.
Speaker 4 (51:34):
Subscribing to Hits magazine.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
Like yes, like that's what I like, I understood from
Jump what it meant to have that level of success, Yes,
and how rare and special it was. And like I
was the one to send the rest of the group
of like, don't stop believing our version is number four
on Billboard Hot one hundred. Yeah, I responded and said
(51:58):
is that good? And I was like you guys, yeah,
And I wasn't even like mad at them or anything.
I was like, no, of course, now like no, no,
it is the fourth biggest song.
Speaker 4 (52:09):
Maybe the biggest thing that we could possibly do.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
I because like I would check the Billboard charts every
single week as a kids.
Speaker 4 (52:17):
Literally knew what it meant in a different way.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
Yeah. Yeah, And so I was just like being able
to shoot at Paramount and drive through those gates, and.
Speaker 4 (52:26):
I when I when I get a lot pass, when
I get it, when I get a parking pass for
the lot because I got a meeting, I'm driving on
to the lot and I'm like this this, I don't
have to.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
Park at the lot down the block ticket and validate.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
Yeah, that is your life. That was our life for
seven years. And so then when it spits you out
and you go.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
Back, welcome to the real life.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
And like, you can't have a normal experience because like
all of my things sound obnoxious, all my experiences sound crazy.
Speaker 4 (52:56):
They were. They also were.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
They were, and like you met me in the middle
of that, and like that's why it was. Really, I
will say, and I'm not just saying this. I'm not
just saying this because you're here. Really I tell people this.
I was very surprised.
Speaker 4 (53:12):
Meeting so many of the costs from Glee at because
I remember, like we had I went to a couple
of parties and there was just like a group of
you guys, a lot of socially spie.
Speaker 2 (53:23):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (53:25):
So I remember meeting this particular group of you, and
having been such a fan of the show, I remember
being really surprised at how normal adjacent you all were, Like, yes,
you were on a massive TV show and we were
in the middle of this thing happening, but you weren't
Like I wasn't like, oh my god, I'm just trying
to menalty, and you were like, please stay tened beat
(53:45):
away from me, Like I knew that I freaked you out,
but I also knew that you got it, you know
what I mean. And I remember being like that kind
of surprised me, but what you were saying, Kevin, it
kind of made me think. So I was having a
conversation with a friend because like all we all all
were all doing in this business, like trying to get
a little bit closer, you know, that investment. You're like
putting your time in and hustling and working and hopefully
(54:06):
something is going to come of it, and you don't
know what it's going to be. And I think your
guys's experienced. I had a friend say to me, if
you just assume that ninety nine point nine percent of
things will be failures, because that is actually the race,
that is like the real ratio of what success looks like,
particularly in this business. Yeah, ninety nine point nine percent
(54:27):
of stuff is going to fail. So then you're like, oh,
I can just dare to fail and do whatever I
want and assume that it's going to fail. And if
it happens to be that point one percent of a
show like Glee, how lucky are you to be a
part of that thing?
Speaker 2 (54:42):
I mean the luckiest and then your gods from the
get go, you know.
Speaker 4 (54:48):
But I think it's so it was such lightning in
a bottle for you guys to be a part of
this thing, and I when I met you, I felt
like you were handling it with such grace and with
like your head screwed on straight, which I probably wouldn't have,
you know what I mean. Sometimes I think about if
somebody loves you had been like because it was like
a hit adjacent song, it like had a really viral moment,
(55:11):
but it was never like I went to like number
one on the dance chart, but it never went to
like radio radio because Arsay didn't service it because they
didn't want me to be the girl from the viral
video because they thought that was bad. Viral was bad when.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
I say yeah, it was at the same time hilarious.
Speaker 4 (55:25):
It was Rebecca back Friday and Chet Smoke or selfie
and they were like, you're viral. This is bad and
I was like, uh oh. And then they didn't send
my song to radio when everybody was already playing it.
And then on my next record when they picked up
my option, they were like, so we need you to
have a viral hit, and I was like totally, But
I think that I think I think sometimes like if
(55:48):
somebody loves you had been the biggest hit in the
world and I was, I was twenty one, like I
might be dead, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (55:53):
Like wow, I really wow.
Speaker 4 (55:57):
I didn't have my head screwed ons right, I was
a bab I mean just a little bet.
Speaker 3 (56:01):
We're just so like on a like ill equipped, Like
nobody equips you for that, you know that part of
the industry.
Speaker 1 (56:08):
So it's it's tis what.
Speaker 4 (56:09):
Babies too, you know. That's why I was so surprised
that you were.
Speaker 2 (56:13):
So impressive though, because you've built your stuff on your own.
Do you know what, like you had a hit on
your own or hit adjacent viral moment at twenty one.
Speaker 4 (56:23):
Yeah, that is accident.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (56:26):
Thank you so much for like just being so open
and sharing and we love you so much and we
really appreciate you, and and I thank you.
Speaker 4 (56:33):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (56:34):
On tour, my.
Speaker 4 (56:36):
New song Sweat just came out. Make sure you stream it.
Ye Run was the first single runs Pretty Fun.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Too Wednesday album'y Pride.
Speaker 4 (56:44):
I'm probably gonna do an EP. I don't think I'm
going to do. I'm going to build up to an
album right, No, no album announce yet.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
Just thank you for delivering your studio today to be
here with us. We love it.
Speaker 4 (56:54):
I know I'm going to make more listen to some.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
More Beyonce dance classes when I'm back, say us Okay,
I love you, I love you, Thank you, miss you already.
Speaker 1 (57:07):
Well that was fun.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
I told you we could gab well. Thank you Betty
so much for joining us, Thank you for listening. I
just love when these things happen. I know, like I
love when it lined up that one of her songs
was in the show Energist. Yes, it was like when
Demi ended up on the show. It was like, how
is this happening? I know, I love it. Thanks Betty,
thanks for joining us. And that's what you really missed.
Thanks for listening and follow us on Instagram at and
(57:32):
that's what you really miss pod. Make sure to write
us a review and leave us five stars. See you
next time.
And That's what You Really Missed with Jenna.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And Kevin an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to and That's What You Really miss Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Today is a very special day because we have one
of our friends, a very talented singer and actor and
whose song, as we were friends during the show, ended
up in one of the episodes, which was very surreal
and really really cool. And it's Betty who.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
You know, Betty, Betty who freaking who?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
And it's used in a really pivotal moment.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
In the series Huge, which is coming. It's just so
much fun. It was fun. We've been friends with Betty
and then and you even more like her. Told Betty,
I think that the song was happening or whatever.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
We'll find out in this conversation. But she's great and
we love her.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Betty, who is so much fun that like for her birthdays,
she used to have Brittany Parks and Hannah teach us
Beyonce dance routines amazing and so like it's her birthday.
But what a treat for us, I mean a gift, yeah,
a true gift for us. But this is our talk
with Betty. It could have gone on for eight hours
(01:18):
because we just get to Gavin, you know, but she's
so talented and can do anything and everything, and so
we get into it all. So here is Betty who
or or or oh my god, how you going?
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Hey Jenny? Literally where you been?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Or she's birth children?
Speaker 4 (01:55):
I know you have and you're always thoughted on that trampoline.
That's what. That's what you said.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
It out with me, bouncin haven't babies. That's it.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
You look younger than when I met you.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
You're aging backwards?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, what have you done? What have you got me?
Speaker 4 (02:13):
I can tell you what I've done, which is I'm
truly shocked that you said that, because you know us
white women, I think we actually tend to age the worst.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yes, anybody?
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Yeah, so yeah, just curdling over time. My theory is
that it is hair theory because I was a short,
short haired girl for a long time, and I think
that I don't really know where I'm headed. I've just
been like trying to do I think I'm in a
period of my life which is very in the definition
(02:44):
of insanity is doing the same thing over and over
again and expecting different results. And so like, the hair
was very like in my head was like this is
what I have to do. People know me this, this,
and now I'm like, oh, can I do whatever I want?
I think I can't. Yeah, And the longer my hair gets,
I think the like stinkier and littler. I look, I
(03:05):
think I look like. I think I look like ten
year old me. Do you know what I mean? In
a way that's not like I'm just like a stinky
little girl.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
You know, Kevin's the jammiest kid in town, so we've
got to.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Sink the jammiest kid in town.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Okay, speaking of why I haven't seen Aristotle.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Look, you got in the effort, you gotta. I have
to go find him. I'm like, where are you? I'm coming.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
I might go ill. Okay that's good.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah like that because I was doing the same thing.
I'm like, babies.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Your all of your good will that you use on
trying to find Kelly is going to being patient with
your patient.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yes, that's what you have a partnership. I can see
Kelly on your behalf.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yes, and yeah, I'll try to stay patient.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Okay, you won't be the warehouse parties at three a m.
You know I can do that for you.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Wow, I can't actually it's so funny. I make so
much music and like so much of my culture is
like I love to dance, but I'm also tired.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
And old and so like in like wiggling girlfriend, I
am trying to hit like a Sunday afternoon, four pm
on Santa Monica Boulevard.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
You you text me at ten thirty saying where are
we going? I say to bed.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, I'm sleep. I don't listen. I don't know how
these gays do it, because I went to my first
warehouse party, like a couple of months ago, a warehouse yeah,
and I'm like I need to see what this is like.
And I'm looking around. I'm like, I am exhausted.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
I'm tired.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I'm the only one.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
That's the other thing, right.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, I don't love.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
I don't love a drug. No, marijuana is my spiritual
that's my that's my medicine.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
But that's what you want to in a dark room.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
You know it's not And everybody else is having a
different time. And for me, I just get like, I
get hot, I get I get nervous. All of a sudden,
I'm like, I'm going to die and I'm going to
be here. This is where I want to die a
warehouse downtown at four in the morning.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
No, the I gotta go.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
I don know how they do it.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I don't know. I do not know how they do it.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
What are we even talking about.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
I don't know people, well, speaking of speaking of, I
don't know how they do it. You congratulations, you made
your Broadway debut.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Pivot.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yes, you know, one of us is job.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Keep it on track.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Okay, but I love it because I obviously that's.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
That's my whole feed. My Instagram feed is Broadway.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
So I'm just seeing like you hopping up on my
Broadway feed, like all my worlds are colliding.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
But you got which was shocking. I was like, wait
what but also makes a lot of sense. Yeah, it
was shocking. How did like how the hell?
Speaker 6 (06:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:08):
That is such a great question. You know. I want
to say that the casting director saw my New York
headlining show when I came through on the big.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Tour, and you can say headlining.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
My headlining shore and I want to say that it
was just I I got a call from my agent
and he was like, I got something crazy to tell
you about. And I was like okay, and like, my
you know, listen, I've been an independent artist. You know,
it's like I I my bar when someone tells like
(06:44):
I used to be like, if someone on my team
is like I had exciting news, I was like, oh
my god, my song has gone number one at radio
overnight and all of my dreams have come true and
I have one billion fans. When did I can't believe
that you've called to tell me this, right? And then
they call and they're like, well, I'm going to pay
you twenty five dollars to post seventeen posts on your Instagram?
(07:04):
Does that sound good? And I'm like totally, totally, thank
you so much for the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
So when my agent called and was like I have
something really crazy, I was like, Okay, they're going to
want me to do like, you know, a song for
free in Times Square for theing or whatever, and like
I'm down for the cause, you know what I mean.
It's like I wanted to be in theater. I want
to be in the world. I've been taking meetings, my
finger guns have been out for a while in their community.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, so this is something you were searching for.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Yes, yes, I actually, to be honest, I was searching
for opportunities to write in musical theater even more than
I was to perform. I just like, I'm so unusual
and I feel as though it is really hard for
me to find opportunities to perform outside of ones I
create for myself because I'm six to two and I
like don't fit in a like very easy box. Actually,
(07:54):
speaking of auditioning, have we discussed the fact that Glee
came to my high school and auditioned kids at my
high school and I sang True Colors, Jenna, I'm sure
you're familiar. I know that you're goin. I sang your
version of True Colors as my audition for And by
the way, you know what I've said, which is so funny.
Me a little bisexual six sixteen year old seventeen year old,
(08:16):
I was like, I think you need more lesbians in
the show, and I think I would do great at that.
It's literally what I my pitch, which is so funny
because then the entire show since I said that, like
pivoted to really be mostly about lesbians actually, And I
was like, Okay, well you didn't need more representation you
did find just on your own. But yeah, I mean
little high school or in high school, I don't think
I ever have revealed. I've waited for this moment to
(08:38):
tell you about it.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
What you told me about the NLT fandom, but you
never told me about this.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
I am NLT is number one fan the way that
I ride for I listened to NLT a lot, and
I'm not even embarrassed to say it. I shouldn't be.
The songs are great. You're you're out here then about
this is good? You didn't.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
This is how we became friends initially too. At Sophia
Bush's house, myself was on here a couple of months ago,
and Benny looks at me and starts singing an NLT song,
and I was like, who don't know, because I'm like,
I'm in a safe space. I'm like at a friend's house,
(09:20):
so this person.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
ISID, yeah, no, And I'm like, giving fan energy this
is so difficult. And this is something that I actually
learned a lot about this time of my life when
I met you, guys. Is it's like trying to figure
out how to I think ultimately I have fan energy,
but not in a spooky way, not like I want.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
That's why I recognized that. I was like right away,
I ran towards you.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Yeah, I ran into my arms. Yes, I did feel
very much as I moved to LA that I spent
a lot of time being like, oh my god, I'm
obsessed with the thing that you do and people are
like whoa, and I'm just like, oh, oh no, I'm
so sorry. Do you want me to ignore you? And
I've never heard of you before? I guess yeah, that is.
And then I like moved off of my my fan line,
(10:08):
and now I've circled back to being like, well, I
think I have to be myself. That's what everybody says,
that's apparently what I'm supposed to do. And so now
I'm just like I lead with this is my other trick.
This is my this is my networking, this is my
I'm thirty something trick and in the viz for a decade. Yes,
I don't do any of the Hey so great to
see you and have someone look at me and go
(10:28):
I go, hey, it's me Betty Who. That's what I do.
I walk into a situation I meeting somebody or re
meeting someone, I go hey, it's me Betty Who, and
they go okay, and I'm like, oh my god, I
loved you in this thing. And then they're like, that
was Betty Who, even if I remembered or didn't remember,
instead of being like hey, and then wait for them
to be like, I'm so sorry, can you tell me
you're hey, it's me Betty Who. And then when I
(10:49):
introduced myself, then they go and I go, I'm so sorry.
I can you tell me your name? And I've been
generous in offering mine and now it's reciprocal. It's really
working wonders for me. It's shifted.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It's a great mood move.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, it just opens the door you don't have.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
You don't have the fan of NLT.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
I'm going to do that from now on. I'm just
gonna say, hey, it's me Abody whom away.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
That is the way.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
The audition for Glee, he said you were searching for
theater opportunities. Were you a musical theater girly?
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, very much of course.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
And was it a big deal that they came to
school for your school, like with everybody freaking of course?
Speaker 4 (11:37):
And I remember Shelby the Girl Who, because it was
like a competition and it's like you won, and if
you won the competition at your school, then you went
into like a smaller pool of like the other schools.
Do you know what I mean? I was a cellist
at Interlock and I was not a singer, so I
auditioned as a vocalist, but it's not something I'd ever
had any like training or experience.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Really, so rude, that's so rude.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Every time I guess on we have like we find
another hyphen.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
No, that is so rude. How good you have to be?
Like you don't even like I'm not even a singer
and then you just had a career as a singer
playing out.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
This cello on tour.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
You know, that's the question. It's so funny. That's something
that I struggled with a lot. I think because my
in my head and it's all my mental illness for
no reason other than like mental illness in it right.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
We all stop ourselves from doing we probably should be doing.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Hundred percent, Like my biggest song being a cover being
I Love You Always Forever by Donna Lewis, and me
being like I'm never making a cover again, like I
wish it was my music. It's like I should have
made four albums of covers. It's probably but the person
that I identify myself as as a cellist was very like
in the wrong place. It's sort of like I was
(12:51):
this big personality and I like didn't know how to
work out at cello because all of the other people
I looked around at wanted it so bad and I
loved the cello, but I didn't want to practice eight
hours a day so I could make it into an orchestra,
so I could like be a serious, buttoned up person
who like played classical music all the time. And I
love classical music, and I've come so full circle to
(13:14):
like loving that pot of myself and my history in it.
But I think when I was starting Betty Who, it
was actually such a like pensul and swing away from
the thing I've been doing for like because it's like
I wasn't professional because I wasn't being paid for it.
I was paying an enormous amount to study this thing,
but like I was playing cello four to six hours
a day. It's like hogwarts for music, you know what
(13:35):
I mean. It's like I remember the feeling of being
like this is as close to doing this full time
as I will probably ever get because I have realized
that I don't have the you have to like want
it you have to have the drive. And like there
are these girls from Korea whose families are sacrificing everything
so they can come to interlock in and practice every
(13:56):
minute of the day. And I was like, hey, I
love that for you. You got it like callouses that
like came out of their fingers from practicing every day.
And I'm like, WHOA couldn't be me. I'm like, you know,
trying to like make friends and like write songs in
the basement while everybody else is like playing playing classical music.
So I think when I think about using cello, I
(14:16):
was like started to dip aitew. It's been very very
rgus and slow getting me here. But like on my
lost record, the last song on the album is called
grown Up scirl Pot, and I'm playing the guitar and
the piano and the cello in that song in that piece,
and like playing cello on a song for my record
(14:38):
was like felt like a huge stele. But it was
so funny. Just the producer, who I've known for so long,
SAME's Martin Martin Johnson, was producing this record and he
was what, I pulled my cello out, I'd like brought
it to we like I drove to Utah and I
like made this record in Utah with him, and I
brought my cello in the backseat of my jeep and
I like sat down with my cello to play on
this number, and he was like, whoa, I am looking
(15:00):
at twelve year old you whoah. It's like the second
I'm sitting with a cello, I am instantly the ten
year old you know playing it. So I think that
now I'm ready to accept that as being really beautiful.
But I think when you're like a young twenty something,
you're like, noah, different, it.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Would reject everything from that time. It's just yeah yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
And then like a cello, I think of like cello
as being like the sexy you know the Bond girls.
You remember girls who were like they wore short skirts
and they had the electric instruments and they their hair
and they were playing you know, movie music. Yeah, that's
like that's the kind of cellis that. Now I'm like, oh,
I could do that.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yes, I want to see Betty Who tour.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Yes, yeah, who knows? Who knows it will be on
this one, but it might it might before maybe when
I age out of dancing with my knees can't take
it anymore. That's when the cello will really come back
into play.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Another thing that you can just do really well. And
the Betty Who experience is great.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
If anyone who's I'm going on tour the summer, I
hope I'll see you there. Yes, you too. It is
mostly the royal you, but also mostly you too.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Specific Okay, out of the out of the Darkness tour.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Yeah, Jenna's Jenna's getting a sitter and she'll be there.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yes, I'm getting a sitter and I will.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
I've been your backup answer before you have.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
You have your inner somebody loves you a music video.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Well, speaking up, I had another transition.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Hello, oh no, we can't go there yet. We need
to finish Haites Town. Oh my god, I need to
know how this happened. So we got a call.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
We got a call for something.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
We really got a call and my yes and the
and the bar was on the floor for me. I
was like thinking that they were going to get me
to like, you know, introduce I don't know, uh don
a Mentelle somewhere or something. And my agent was like,
we have an offer for you to play for Sephonie
and Hadestown come.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
On, offer, I said, did you say offer? Yeah, somebody
wants me?
Speaker 4 (16:55):
What is me? It's me? Yeah? Yeah, So I think
I felt it was like Cloud nine. You know, there
are moments like I know you both know you look
so hot, so hot, and then you're like, what was
(17:16):
it all for? And the question remains a lot of
the time, and then like for no reason. Maybe it's
because of all that hard work, or maybe it's like
some random person thought of you and it just was
you were lucky as hell and that phone that phone call,
it accumulates, and that that phone call was one of
(17:37):
them where I'm like, I didn't even ask for this
and it's just gonna happen. This doesn't feel fair.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, no, it is fair because I have seen you
grind and work for so long and like it's not
easy being an independent artist, and like every vision you
do it all like since you're like before your first album, and.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Well, I know, I really have known you guys for
so long.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So long, sorrow long.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
It's really crazy. I do think about that because I
also feel like I am a manifestor in a lot
of ways about like the first famouses that I met
in Los Angeles when I came out here and I
remember being such I was like a gleek, a bit
huge gleek. And also John Talker Musta is one of
my favorite childhood movies and Bush was like one of
(18:27):
my gay awakenings in that movie because she's like, I'm
going to kiss you, and I was like, why do
I have to pee? Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Because she has the most perfect face known demand that.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
I'm speaking of aging backwards. She is not Kardling.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
I don't know. I don't know what is in her genes,
but good god, I know, so to like.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Go to one of my first being like invited to
my first like social thing in La and it was
like you guys and Sophia Bush. I was like, I
think I did this. I think that I think my
vision ward speaking of my vision board. You know what else?
One of my favorite momes from Glee is safety Dance
because Kevin McHale speaking of another thing that you're so
amazing at is also dancing, and you did not get
(19:08):
to do enough of it. I'm seeing you wheel around
in this chair, moving your upper body like your life
depends on it, and I love that you you sold it.
But getting to see you hop up and out and
do give your gift a little spin out there. Safety
dance is one of my favorite moments in the whole show.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Well, I got to be a Betty who backup dancer
with Kelly for one number one, So blood a dream
you were?
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Actually you were the first person you told me, Kevin
that somebody loved you was going to be in the show.
Did I do it?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Did I do?
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Jenna?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Where I pivoted us into the right place? You?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah? Can you can you tell? Because I remember rehearsing
your number. I remember shooting your number because also Becca
said I smelled, which was like a really important thing
to learn about yourself.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Yeah, that's nice.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
You'll never forget that there unlocked somebody.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Telling you that you Yeah, it was, it truly was.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
But wait, so you knew and told Betty that her
song was me in the show?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I guess, But you didn't know.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
I recall.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Didn't you have to approve it?
Speaker 4 (20:14):
I feel like in my recollection, which now I think
might be made up given how little either of you
seem to.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
No, no, don't trust our memories your Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
What I recall is getting a text from you, Kevin
being like I think that somebody loves you. It's going
to be in the show. And I wanted, I wanted,
I want to sing it, but they won't let me.
It's now going to be Darren and Chris and I'm
so jealous, but I will dance my ass off and
I was like wait, and then I remember like the
official offer coming in, like you know, because you have
(20:46):
to miss some music supervisor likes approve the sink or whatever.
But I do think that you were the one being like,
I think this is going to happen. And then it did,
and I was on the phone to want my One
of my best friends is Lizzie. She is the biggest
gleek that I know, and I did. I texted her saying,
huge news for Lilly Perkins. I'm going to be on
and that's what you missed. And she sent me like
(21:07):
tears in her eyes, like so exciting, really exciting for her.
Exciting for me too, but you know I mostly lived
vicariously for her. Yeah a good friend, yeah yeah, yeah,
except to Telly, yeah, but full circle yeah yeah. And
I texted her about this and she was like, she
was like, do you know what a culturally significant moment
(21:28):
Glee was and you had a song on that show?
Do you know who doesn't have a song on that show?
And then she named all these people who were like
much more famous and successful than me, and she was like,
they don't have songs on Glee, but you know who
does Betty for you? And I was like, honestly, honestly, Linds.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
We need champions like that.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
You need champions like that all the time, just to
remind you of all the winds.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
What a great memory, because that absolutely is a text
I sent.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
So Kevin had the behind he had the behind the scenes,
he knew before well.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
And we would get the initial script because we would
find out later when songs were changed before we actually
shot them, that they would assume, I think that we
could get any song we wanted.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Yeah, well yeah it was powerful, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
System, yes, so they would put the songs in there.
And Kelly was in the writer's room at this point too,
so I'm sure you know if someone was asking for
a suggestions.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Between you and Kelly both being like, hey, you know
what we should do, I feel like I feel like
one of you was the one who suggested it, Like
I know I know that it was because I had
a homie putting putting in a good order.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
It was not, but that song was already doing. You
didn't need us that song maybe maybe I don't know,
a life of its own, and it was it was
taking over the internet, and you know, it was a
gay anthem and our show was gay grey. It was
really good, good, very yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Yeah. I mean that's why it was so impactful to me.
That's why I'm like a seventeen year old and he
was like auditioning on the stage interlock and being like,
I think I would make a great lesbian for your show,
and then singing a song. Is because I felt like so.
I love the fact that it was shining a light
on sort of all of the parts of and obviously
I'm sure you guys have heard this a billion times
over in your entire lifespan. But like the things that
(23:18):
made me feel uncool, Glee made shan a light on
to make it seem way cooler than I felt about it.
And so the fact that I loved musical theater or like,
and also the catalog of music that I was introduced
to because I was a young person who had never
heard dream On before I watched the show it's like
I loved that it sort of it really gave me.
(23:41):
I have a friend who uses the term unbullied theater
kid a lot to describe people who have a lot
of energy, and I actually think that Glee probably spawned
like a lot of unbullied theater kids, and maybe we
need to be like this much more bullied, you know
what I mean, just a little bit of humility around me.
You're like chipped away from the edges.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
You know.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
But it did give me a sort of confidence that
I that I actually I wonder if I would have had.
And that's how I became a fan of LTS because
I was like, oh my god, he's so great and
I love this boy. And then I googled Kevin mchall
and I was like, he was in a boy band.
I also love boy bands.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I did not know this was the road.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
Have we ever? Have you ever spoken this much about
NLT on this show? I hope that my episode is
actually it's not the Betty Who episode, it's the NLT
episode isisode?
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Oh god, we haven't spoken this much about it.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I don't know we have not. For those of you
who don't know, I was in a boy band called
NLT before you know.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Well you and a girl band, and I didn't know about.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
It, like I was not.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I was an unbillied theater kid.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
I love that and it worked and it's worked out
for you? Really well? It did it? Did you were
also on Broadway? I was did you? What was your experience?
You loved it? I think we're gluttons for punishment. I
think you have to be if you.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Love it, It's like, really, you really do.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
It ruined my life, but it was also the happiest
I've ever been both at the same time. Do you
know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (25:02):
For sure?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Was it the schedule that ruined your life? Like it's jarring?
Speaker 4 (25:07):
It is jarring? Eight times a week is like maybe
too many times. I would need to say I'm gonna
go I'm gonna go out on a limb and say
that it is many times a week, and it is. Yeah,
But I think I think it just did a number
on my body. I felt like, and if I when
let me correct myself, on me manifest it. When I
do it again, that's right, I will have so many
(25:31):
more tools to help support me because I have the experience.
But it nothing will ever be like the first time
you do it because especially coming from a totally different
scal Like I thought I was like rock and roll,
Like I play four or five shows a week on tour,
and like there are some people like pop stars who
don't do more than two three shows a week because
it's like so much on your body. And also you're
(25:53):
like carrying an entire show by yourself. It's not like
you're a part of an ensemble.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
For sure.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
So I thought that I was. Yeah, I thought I
was like rock and roll. But that's team sport. As
you say, Jenna, that's actually one of my the things
that I love the most about it. Like I think,
like I always wish That's why I'm obsessed with NLT.
Just to bring it back to We're just.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Connection.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
Sorry, yeah, where he's gonna candy episode, He's like, we
can't air this. No. The reason I'm obsessed with boy
bands and like you know, is because I I think
there I have this fantasy that I always wish that
I was in a group because I am such a
social creature by nature. Like when I played tennis, I
loved playing tennis, but I didn't playing softball because when
(26:40):
I was on the softball team, then I like had
people to reflect like I feel like I'm I'm a
really good member of a team because I have a
great attitude for the most part, Like I you know,
like I was. I was basically accepted to my performing
offs high school because I had a really great attitude,
not because I had the talent. He was like, you
need so much help with cello, and I think I
(27:00):
can give it to you. But the only reason I'm
really letting you in is because I think that you'll
be a really great addition to that we need. Like
good vibes, bring the vibes.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Similar.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, like I'm not I'm going to give you Like
I'm not.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
I'm giving an a plus in.
Speaker 6 (27:21):
Vibes personality, right, But I think, but I think that
that is what I loved about being on Broadway and
being Yeah, I loved it.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
It's like pressure is just so different, and I loved
being someone who, even if I was having a horrible day,
could be like, look at us all it's easy for
I don't know if you had this too, Like it's
easy enough for me, who's like coming from a totally
different world. The world that you're in is the hottest
world to have. Like gratitude for yes, and so walking
(27:55):
into my first day of Broadway rehearsals, I was like, eny, yeah,
you know what I mean, Like I was ready to
be present and soak it all up. And it's like,
you know, it's harder for me to do that in
music because I have so much I'm like, what are
we doing?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
But it's also all on you, Like it's your project,
it's your vision, it's your thing. This is like, oh,
I know the music is good.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I'm stepping into this.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Yeah, well that's crazy too. I mean, you guys are
like actors and in a you know, you have so
much more experience obviously being on camera and acting from
a different way than I do. But that was something
that was really crazy to me. Is sort of the
like coming from music, it is all in my control,
for better and for worse. And so to walk in
I remember, like the director on our first day rehearsals,
Rachel Chapkin, my queen, She's like, we were having a
(28:47):
table sort of conversation, me and the guy who's going
to play my husband, Philip boy and my boyfriend obsessed
with him. We were all sitting talking and someone asked
a question. The assistant director is like what time are
we rehearsing tomorrow? And I'm like, I think the schedule
says four pm. And Rachel the director looks, she goes, hey,
you don't have to worry about any of that stuff anymore.
You're just here to do this part. And I was like, whoa, yes, yes, ye,
(29:08):
thank you for the note.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yes, I love a.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Note, thank you for the note. I will I will
internalize the note, I will sleep on the note, and
I will return and we've been ready to work. Yeah
really yeah, really really shot me out of my body
for a second, being like oh so I think. But
then it's like there's a choice that they tell you
to make, and you're kind of like, I don't want
to make that choice. So it's like the push and
(29:31):
pull of the control versus giving up control.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
So nice.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Sometimes it's nice, Oh my god, tell me where to
stand to say and I'll see it.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
So that's how we live. They're just tell me when
to start talking, and I'll do it.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
And I will give you seven eight yes, a little blair,
and that's it.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
The live experience, because you have so much experience performing live,
going on tour and all different kinds of venues.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
But versus a theater performance.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
A theater acting yeah in a character, Like what is
that terrifying? Like was that a whole different level or
was that like, Oh I got this.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
I think I am ultimately really proud of the way
I showed up on my first night, obviously, like and
it grows so much. That's something that really shook me
to my core because like I'm building a tour right now,
I'm about to go onto this summer. Normally, what we'll
do is we'll stop in a city, a smaller city,
and play a smaller venue than the rest of the
(30:43):
venues as a warm up show. You go, this is
the first time we're running to do. If you will, Yeah,
where you go? I'm gonna I'm going to fall on
my face, and the people in Phoenix, Arizona are going
to be really kind and generous with me because I'm
going to say, this is our first show. You're like
seeing a work in progress. Thank you so much. You
don't like open in front of everybody who's going to
come see you, And that's the time they're going to
(31:04):
come see you, do you know what I mean? Opening
night and I remember seeing Heather Headley in the Color
Purple on her opening night when she took over from
Jennifer Hudson. Yes, And I remember she dropped a line
and she and she went and she picked it up
and she just and it actually, to me felt so
exciting to see you, like the process of her going
(31:25):
this titan of performer that I think can do no
wrong dropping a line and nobody died. Yeah, and everything's fine,
and she handled it gracefully and it actually gave me
goosey seeing her fall back into it. I'm like, oh
my god, how exciting. So I think I am ultimately
really proud of how I showed up at my opening night.
But I remember I opened like September fifth, and I
(31:48):
was in it until February fourth or something like that.
So in that span, I remember like Thanksgiving being like
I think I'm eating this up, but like that's two
months later, do you know what I mean. Yeah, So,
like in a pop show, we have one warm up
show and then it's tight and we are doing it
and no changes are being made and we are hitting it.
For me, like in a month of rehearsals and the
(32:10):
director looking at me being like, well, you're going to
find it. I'm like, what do you No, No, no,
that's not an answer to my question, what do you
mean I'm going to find it? I need to know
what it is so that that's so interesting, like you're
thrown out to go. I'm going to find this in
front of you. And it is the most vulnerable thing
I've ever done in my life. And I've done some
(32:30):
strange and vulnerable things, yes, And I think the experience
of like showing up and finding it in front of everybody,
to then arrive and know that I and start to
be like, oh, I think I've dropped in. Of course,
I do wish that the part where I arrived and
went I now I figured it out. I kind of
do wish that was like September fifth, do you know
(32:52):
what I mean? I think that's a goal that I
would have it to go back to a show with
is shortened my amount of time that it took me
to get comfortable and drop in. It's like that was
two and a half months, Like I'd love to do
it in six weeks next time or part.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Of the magic though, I feel like I feel the
exact same way as you. But when I hear people
who do shows for like years or something, how do.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
You do a show that.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
No idea, but the fact that the key seems to be,
like the one consistent thing everybody seems to say is
that they are finding new things things, yeah, every night.
And so maybe I'm saying this more for me than
for you, but I feel like.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
No, yeah, but that's a part of it.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
But like yeah, like sort of like I guess the
grace that you give yourself to sort of explore that
where pop world, the perfectionist musician in us is like, no,
this has to be right, this has to be my
vision immediately, so you can see exactly what I'm able
to give you as opposed to this is a complex character,
and you're seeing a full character and embodied on stage,
(34:04):
interacting with other people as other actors are coming and
going y. And so for your own sanity to not
get tired of playing a role for five months or
wherever long you're doing it is to be able to
make yourself excited every night too, with the possibility of
finding something new.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
Well, And like, you know, I felt so lucky because
Haiti's town is so epic. It's like it's not you know,
it's much less five to six, seven eight than I
feel like my personality is do you know what I mean?
It's like it's giving art, it's giving Eric. It's the
first time I saw it. I remember being like, I
(34:44):
don't know if I get it. I know it made
me feel something, but I and I'm pretty I'm pretty smart,
and I walked away being like, I know that it
made me feel but I have so many questions, and
it's like I wish I was in rehearsal. Yeah, and
I watched it so often when I was in rehearsals,
(35:04):
you know, I would like for rehearsals just like standing
at the back of the room and watching the track.
And then I did the moment where you're staying on
the side and you're like following the try was like
following Joelle around that she did her performance. And I remember,
like being in the show three months in being like, oh,
that's really beautiful, Like there's it's so dense. Yeah that
(35:24):
I think it. It gave me so much opportunity to
continue that exploration that you're talking about, keV. That's like
I am still finding how do I make This line
has never really made sense to me, And I'm just
saying it because I have to say it because this
is the time that I say this line. But now
all of the other lines I have figured out what
they mean and how to make make sense. And now
(35:45):
this line is the one that I'm going to spend
the next week trying to make it land and feel
not like I'm coming out with my body to say
the line that I'm supposed to say before I like
drop it. You know, I also learned so much about
and Jenna, I'm so curious to see like your experience
about this too, like I.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Learned, and.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
Film and TV is so such a different mode than theater,
and it's such a different embodiment to me, Like because
in film and TV something I think I'm really good at,
or like music videos, or like doing anything with camera,
I'm thinking about camera and I'm thinking about angle on
camera and where is the camera and find it's like
that it's a part of your the interplay of your performance,
(36:26):
and in a in a theater setting, of course, all
of that is gone. And I learned so much from
watching because I tried to see a lot of theater
while I was like while I was in rehearsals and
getting ready for the show, and then when I left
the show, I did like a week after I closed,
where I saw a show like seven shows in. I remember,
(36:48):
and I learned so much about like what being dropped
in means, Like that's such a like dropped in, like
you shut up, Like what do you talkking about?
Speaker 2 (37:01):
True?
Speaker 4 (37:01):
And I saw it and I like remember being like, oh,
it's the thing of making yourself the most alive and
open and present. It's about being present, and like so
much of my pop music life, I'm like, yeah, it's
like I'm I do feel present, but I'm in my
(37:24):
I'm a little bit more inside of myself thinking about
what I'm doing and serving. And it's not the same mechanism.
And I thought it would translate a lot and it
doesn't at all.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
And I for any it's like this may be a
little too specific for any. No, it's never never understand this.
I really will Beyonce tours before Renaissance. It's the pop
star perfectionist, you know, the little sort of we're going
to hit these fun She is working, yes, and then Renaissance.
(37:58):
She's dropping lyrics, she's talking to audience members. She's never
looked more alive on stage in her life. Yes, Yes,
and we feel Yes. The same, but like when you
see somebody who's quote unquote dropped in the even if
it's in a stadium or if it's in a theater,
you feel that as an audience member.
Speaker 4 (38:18):
Yeah, and the Heather Headley dropping her line and I go,
but nothing has ever been more human or alive or
like in front of me. And I think that it's
so funny because culturally we grew up in the same
era of like obviously Beyonce is such a kind of
the peak of you know, performance sort of. It's like
feels like so often people have been chasing her for forever,
(38:39):
whether it's like when people were on stage or like
she's such a trendsetter as far as like how to
do the thing that we do in our so growing
up and like studying her, I have spent so much time.
I feel like this is also a bonding moment for us.
Was like really talking about Beyonce on this level, like
I love single Ladies, where like the performance from Glastonbury
(39:02):
the end of time, but do you know what I mean?
And I feel like that a version of her informed
so much of what I actually learned about like perfectionism.
But I actually think that's the thing that for someone
who wasn't a Beyonce fan in that era, that's what
was alienating to them as they go. I get that
(39:23):
she's good, but I have a hard time connecting with it.
And I never understood that because I'm like, what do
you mean?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah, because like the boy bands are Britney Spears, it
was all perfection. Everything was, yes, absolutely, and it's.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
Not like free painting. And I think that, and like
when I see free painting at work in pop music,
I'm a little bit like, can we get some structure
in here? I want a little bit of five scent,
And so finding the balance of that, I think is
something I'm watching her do because she's like had children
and has less, you know, I think it feels more
(39:57):
free in a way, and so I think that it
really does seem to be a balance between those things.
And I think that's like a really great example of
me being in Hadestown and being like, I'm supposed to
be this thing, and then I'm like, but I'm thinking
about it too much, and then I'm like, no, I'm
in the room, and it's crazy. I felt very much
like I was playing a video game that was the
(40:18):
same video game over and over again, and each performance
was me trying to get a higher score. I'm trying
to get the perfect score on the game, and if
I trip over myself here, it's like deduct ten points.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
You know, It's like funny, Yeah, that was That.
Speaker 4 (40:32):
Was the experience I sometimes came. I felt like I
was like yeah, like you know, you like wind up
the toy and then all of a sudden you're like
off to the races again doing the same thing. But
I did ultimately fall in love with it, and it's
changed the way I approach performing because it's so much
more of that like in the room, coming from you know,
my soul to the audience. I feel so much more
(40:54):
connected in that way than I ever did before I
did it. It's pretty crazy, you get it.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Do you think you were able to appreciate that experience
and the ability to be present and notice all those things,
like was because of your age and experience beforehand, Like
if you call me old because you're elderly.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
Because I'm ancient. And Siri jumped in just now she
was like, I'm sorry, did you just call her old?
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Did you need me? Because you know it's I think
it's when you especially if you're doing something for the
first time. It's sort of like like fight or fight,
and I need to figure out how to do this.
I'm gonna be in front of a live audience eight
times a week. But it sounds like you were really
like grounded and able to pay attention to the whole
experience as a whole.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
I think that that is definitely from experience, just because
I remember listening, Man, you guys must have like so
much to say about this, and I'd love to hear
what your thoughts are on this. Like I remember listening
to a podcast about it was BJ from the Office
talking about being on the office and being so overwhelmed
(42:02):
by the experience and the success of the show that
actually he didn't really enjoy it that much. And he
looks back and he's like, man, I really I actually
missed it. I like this is what they talk about
when they talk about missing it. Yes, And I feel
like there's been so many moments in my music career
where I haven't enjoyed the whole point. That's the whole point.
(42:24):
You know. It's like, I'm not rich, so if I'm
miserable as well, then I'm doing something wrong, you know what.
I mean, it's like I'm not doing this for my health.
I'm like trying to find joy and vibrate at passion.
And you know, music is like the thing that brings
me the most emotional satisfaction, whether it's making me cry
(42:45):
or making me laugh or making me dance. It's like
it is so the lifeblood of the joy in my experience,
and so to then spend ten years working in it
will really make you hate it. And I am active
trying to work on you know, reapproaching music from this
place now of sort of taking a little bit of
time off and going I really want to be happy. Yeah,
(43:10):
that seems like.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
A requirement now, yes, yes.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
But I do think that going into Hadestown because of
the experience that I'd had in music where I did
feel a little bit like OHM as my life so hard,
I'm getting flown around the world to go play shows,
and I'm miserable. It's like I hated being that person.
Even as as I was that person, I knew I
was doing it wrong. That when Hadestown came and I
felt so lucky because I felt like I do feel
(43:34):
like I've worked really hard for so long and having
a lot of ways actually not reached the benefits of
so much of that time and effort that I've put in,
which is like an investment. It's all an investment to
get an opportunity like that that actually felt like it
had been dropped out of heaven. Like for me, I
was like, I'm not. The one thing I'm not going
to do is miss this. And I will say out
(43:57):
of the hundred and I want to, I think it's
one hundred and sixty seven shows.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Personally, I think I can count to one two shows
where I was like, I don't want to be here.
I hate this. I am full autopilot getting through the
show because I am I'm dead. I'm done. Nobody look
at me. Don't perceive me. This is not my day. Please.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Yeah, it's that's ratio, ratio.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
That's inevitable.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
I expected it to be higher, but I was. I
really made an effort to when I walked into the
building to be like I'm going to go say high
to stage management and I'm going to knock on the
doors and be like hey, everybody, it's me many who
and I'm so happy to be here and like I
know that it's funny, Like there are some people who
were like, uh, like with all your joy, like are
(44:44):
you so happy to be here? And I'm like I
get that. And if that's not your time, I understand,
and I don't have to bring this to your front
door either. But that's for me the way that it
felt accessible and kind of kept me present in the
fact that I was literally living a childhood dream, because
it's like when you work your whole life to live
your childhood dream, then all of a sudden, it's hard
(45:06):
to drop in and be like, oh my god, I'm
a pop star playing show for fans, Like yeah, there's
so much work that went into it. It's hard for
me to then like oh my gosh. And then you
like get to be on Broadway and you're like no, no, no,
this is like I have not spent the last ten
years auditioning for Broadway shows.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Yeah, Like yeah, that did.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
That makes that a little bit either more or harder,
you know, to like be like I've worked so hard
for this, like of course I deserve this. It's like
a different energy to approach it like me, yeah, you
want me, which is a different vibe.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
But that's the fun Broadway vibe. That's the fun vibe
to have.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
When Somebody Loves You ended up on Glee. It was
also one of those moments of obviously the show was
not necessarily at its peak at that point, no, I'll
take it, yeah, but it was also like, yeah, this
is my friend and like we were all number one, you.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
Know, introduce me to all of you guys. That's like
how the video first Friends Yeah in La was because
Kenny found my EP online and shared it with all
of his friends, being.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Like, this is sick. Basically happened.
Speaker 4 (46:17):
Yes, Kenny found the EP that's from from I Recall
to My Best Recollection. Kenny was a little SoundCloud kid. Yeah,
my first EP was free online and he said, somebody
loves You hits. I think it's even before the viral video,
do you know what I mean? He was like it
was really a treadsetter. So it felt very serendipitous, and
it was such a like I'm so grateful for like
(46:40):
the moments that do happen like that, whether it's Haiti
Town or like me getting the you texting me being
like I think we're going to do Somebody Loves You
on Glee. I remember being like, oh my, Like that's
a moment where I get to go, Like I can
directly shoot back to being in my body when I'm
sixteen watching on my like weird little laptop in high school,
(47:00):
like the newest download I bought those seasons on Apple,
do you know what I mean? Like before I was
like I was a fan and I was also downloading
the albums like my entire iTunes. I remember I did
like a six hour road trip to go make some
music when I was nineteen. In the entire drive, I
was listening to the Glee soundtracks, do you know what
I mean? Like it was such a huge part of
my young life that then I got to the fact
(47:24):
that I got to be a part of it in
any kind of small way felt so unreal and like
such a satisfying moment for me.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yeah, but I'm so.
Speaker 4 (47:35):
I'm so curious about you guys, like that feeling of
sort of you were in this huge moment and when
you were in it, where you like, I'm having trouble
being in it, or like, how can you even possibly
be in it when you don't even know how big
it's going to be? Like I do want to know
how you felt about that at the time. It's probably
a huge question.
Speaker 3 (47:52):
I think towards the end in retrospect, like I wish
I had I resonated with, like BJ, like I wish
I had enjoyed and appreciated that time of being so
young and so on top of the world and just
being able to really basking it. I don't think I
(48:14):
hated it, but I also didn't love it as.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Much as I could have.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
So there's definitely like a vibe that I, if I
could go back, I would be I would be smiling
every day, you know, like there would I would be
knocking on people's doors and saying hello.
Speaker 4 (48:28):
And you must also be like it's never going to end.
That's the other part of it. It's like it went
for so many seasons that there also must have been
a part of you that.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
Was like around season four, we kind of new classes
came in, things started to people started wanting to do
other projects. We were so hot at that time that
like you think you're never gonna stop working after that,
so you're like, get me off this thing that made
me and let me go do the new thing. And
that's when we kind of lost that connection. And obviously
(48:57):
we came back at times and found each other again
and came you know, left, but a lot of people
left at the end, and for me in particular, like
I left through halfway through season six, and then I
didn't come back until really like this the finale, to
like really appreciate it. So I definitely wish that I
had had a different outlook towards the end. But I
(49:18):
think in the beginning we all felt I felt very
attached to the show and very emotional towards it because
it was my dream coming true.
Speaker 4 (49:29):
Yeah yeah, fighting in a bottle, and you were a
part of it, especially at a time when like we
didn't have seventeen different shows that were about like kids
who dance. Now, I was just like now a huge
part of culture because Glee made it that, like you
were on the forefront of that.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
It took longer for Kevin to like lose that luster,
like he made it really really far, I really really
really far. Like I give him way farther than all
of us, Like he was the last one standing, probably smiling,
so like I take you longer.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
But I think that comes from my experience of not
having success, like being in the boy band for so
long and working so is so hard at it, and
we didn't really get there at all, And.
Speaker 4 (50:18):
That's so crazy because like when you're in like a
industry plant situation like that where they pick boys and
they put you together and then they give you the song,
it's like that also must have felt like all my
dreams are coming true, but and it is so much
hard work. And then you're like shooting the music videos
(50:39):
and you're like, I'm shooting the music video and I'm
like signed to a record label, and like all of
these crazy producers and like execs are like having these
conversations with me that the like putting that in front
of you and then sort of being like, oh, but
this isn't It does give you a different perspective.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Totally, because when I had also been trying to act
for forever and I would do little guest spots here,
So it was like the best combination of all the
things I was interested in and trying to pursue professionally,
and then the magical accident of it working. And as
someone who had, you know, come from not a successful
(51:18):
music career, like seeing the charts every week and being
able to talk to the chairman of Columbia Records about
Beyonce's leaked singles or talk to the President of Columbia
about how like stories about Adele recording someone like you
were like I.
Speaker 4 (51:34):
Subscribing to Hits magazine.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
Like yes, like that's what I like, I understood from
Jump what it meant to have that level of success, Yes,
and how rare and special it was. And like I
was the one to send the rest of the group
of like, don't stop believing our version is number four
on Billboard Hot one hundred. Yeah, I responded and said
(51:58):
is that good? And I was like you guys, yeah,
And I wasn't even like mad at them or anything.
I was like, no, of course, now like no, no,
it is the fourth biggest song.
Speaker 4 (52:09):
Maybe the biggest thing that we could possibly do.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
I because like I would check the Billboard charts every
single week as a kids.
Speaker 4 (52:17):
Literally knew what it meant in a different way.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
Yeah. Yeah, And so I was just like being able
to shoot at Paramount and drive through those gates, and.
Speaker 4 (52:26):
I when I when I get a lot pass, when
I get it, when I get a parking pass for
the lot because I got a meeting, I'm driving on
to the lot and I'm like this this, I don't
have to.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
Park at the lot down the block ticket and validate.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
Yeah, that is your life. That was our life for
seven years. And so then when it spits you out
and you go.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
Back, welcome to the real life.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
And like, you can't have a normal experience because like
all of my things sound obnoxious, all my experiences sound crazy.
Speaker 4 (52:56):
They were. They also were.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
They were, and like you met me in the middle
of that, and like that's why it was. Really, I
will say, and I'm not just saying this. I'm not
just saying this because you're here. Really I tell people this.
I was very surprised.
Speaker 4 (53:12):
Meeting so many of the costs from Glee at because
I remember, like we had I went to a couple
of parties and there was just like a group of
you guys, a lot of socially spie.
Speaker 2 (53:23):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (53:25):
So I remember meeting this particular group of you, and
having been such a fan of the show, I remember
being really surprised at how normal adjacent you all were, Like, yes,
you were on a massive TV show and we were
in the middle of this thing happening, but you weren't
Like I wasn't like, oh my god, I'm just trying
to menalty, and you were like, please stay tened beat
(53:45):
away from me, Like I knew that I freaked you out,
but I also knew that you got it, you know
what I mean. And I remember being like that kind
of surprised me, but what you were saying, Kevin, it
kind of made me think. So I was having a
conversation with a friend because like all we all all
were all doing in this business, like trying to get
a little bit closer, you know, that investment. You're like
putting your time in and hustling and working and hopefully
(54:06):
something is going to come of it, and you don't
know what it's going to be. And I think your
guys's experienced. I had a friend say to me, if
you just assume that ninety nine point nine percent of
things will be failures, because that is actually the race,
that is like the real ratio of what success looks like,
particularly in this business. Yeah, ninety nine point nine percent
(54:27):
of stuff is going to fail. So then you're like, oh,
I can just dare to fail and do whatever I
want and assume that it's going to fail. And if
it happens to be that point one percent of a
show like Glee, how lucky are you to be a
part of that thing?
Speaker 2 (54:42):
I mean the luckiest and then your gods from the
get go, you know.
Speaker 4 (54:48):
But I think it's so it was such lightning in
a bottle for you guys to be a part of
this thing, and I when I met you, I felt
like you were handling it with such grace and with
like your head screwed on straight, which I probably wouldn't have,
you know what I mean. Sometimes I think about if
somebody loves you had been like because it was like
a hit adjacent song, it like had a really viral moment,
(55:11):
but it was never like I went to like number
one on the dance chart, but it never went to
like radio radio because Arsay didn't service it because they
didn't want me to be the girl from the viral
video because they thought that was bad. Viral was bad when.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
I say yeah, it was at the same time hilarious.
Speaker 4 (55:25):
It was Rebecca back Friday and Chet Smoke or selfie
and they were like, you're viral. This is bad and
I was like, uh oh. And then they didn't send
my song to radio when everybody was already playing it.
And then on my next record when they picked up
my option, they were like, so we need you to
have a viral hit, and I was like totally, But
I think that I think I think sometimes like if
(55:48):
somebody loves you had been the biggest hit in the
world and I was, I was twenty one, like I
might be dead, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (55:53):
Like wow, I really wow.
Speaker 4 (55:57):
I didn't have my head screwed ons right, I was
a bab I mean just a little bet.
Speaker 3 (56:01):
We're just so like on a like ill equipped, Like
nobody equips you for that, you know that part of
the industry.
Speaker 1 (56:08):
So it's it's tis what.
Speaker 4 (56:09):
Babies too, you know. That's why I was so surprised
that you were.
Speaker 2 (56:13):
So impressive though, because you've built your stuff on your own.
Do you know what, like you had a hit on
your own or hit adjacent viral moment at twenty one.
Speaker 4 (56:23):
Yeah, that is accident.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (56:26):
Thank you so much for like just being so open
and sharing and we love you so much and we
really appreciate you, and and I thank you.
Speaker 4 (56:33):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (56:34):
On tour, my.
Speaker 4 (56:36):
New song Sweat just came out. Make sure you stream it.
Ye Run was the first single runs Pretty Fun.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Too Wednesday album'y Pride.
Speaker 4 (56:44):
I'm probably gonna do an EP. I don't think I'm
going to do. I'm going to build up to an
album right, No, no album announce yet.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
Just thank you for delivering your studio today to be
here with us. We love it.
Speaker 4 (56:54):
I know I'm going to make more listen to some.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
More Beyonce dance classes when I'm back, say us Okay,
I love you, I love you, Thank you, miss you already.
Speaker 1 (57:07):
Well that was fun.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
I told you we could gab well. Thank you Betty
so much for joining us, Thank you for listening. I
just love when these things happen. I know, like I
love when it lined up that one of her songs
was in the show Energist. Yes, it was like when
Demi ended up on the show. It was like, how
is this happening? I know, I love it. Thanks Betty,
thanks for joining us. And that's what you really missed.
Thanks for listening and follow us on Instagram at and
(57:32):
that's what you really miss pod. Make sure to write
us a review and leave us five stars. See you
next time.
Host
Jenna Ushkowitz
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