June 1, 2023 • 40 mins
We’re all familiar with Dave Karofsky, but do we know the story of how Max Adler became him? Or how he was once shunned from a cast party? Or how his life was forever changed?
If the answer to those questions is ‘no’ then you’re about to find out! AND if the answer is “yes,” then listen anyway because you’ve never heard a story told quite like this!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
And That's what You Really missed with Jenna.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And Kevin an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Welcome to and That's What You Really miss Podcast. Today,
we have a very special guest, Kevin.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
McHale the.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Grim. Wow, you couldn't do better than me.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Well, we do have a special guest. It's not you,
but we.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Have it's someone more special for sure. We have Max
adler Kowski is here.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
The show choir extraordinary himself.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, like the only person who was actually in show choir.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Yeah, I was in like select choir.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
But he like corn and like like competed and stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
So he's really legit. He's legit.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
He's legit. We find out he's legit in every way
that I didn't really know coming into this, Like he
was the most qualified person on this show.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I mean true, I'm surprised they didn't auditioning for Puck.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I know.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
It's like now that you see Mark, like, yeah, I
knew what they were going for, but like, you know,
like why did.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I don't know what? Robert Oric had a vision and
he's said everyone and really nailed it. So and Robert Oric,
I trust.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yeah, no questions asked, Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, Max is here, give it up for Max Appler.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Hey, you agreed going on. Good to see you.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Welcome to the show. We have a lot to talk about,
so let's just let's just do it. But how are
you doing, You've got a kiddy.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Or figure out? Fan's good. Everyone's healthy. You know, I'm
still still my wife Jen, who you guys know.
Speaker 5 (01:33):
And now we have a Dylan who is three and
two months talking up a storm, interested in planes and
garbage trucks and construction vehicles and all the things. And
we're battling to get him to sleep in his own room.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
So there's that.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
But everyone, everyone's good now, just you know, figuring out
the life amidst the strike, and you know what I
will do this summer and uh, you know, but yeah,
producing acting, things are things are good, but you know,
navigating the craziness of this business, like we all are.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Right, and it's it's so interesting too because the last
time this writers strike happened, Glee. Could we talk to
Ian a few months ago and he was saying, now,
you know, Glee happened randomly during the last writer's strike. Yeah,
so here we are again, So maybe there will be
some new opportunities for all of us. Outside of it
(02:28):
worked out for us last time asking for it. Let's
do something.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Yeah, that's that.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
Hopefully it could be a shoe in you'd think you
actually know, I'm never gonna work for I.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Don't think I'm invited back sport.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah the same. We'll also just be watching.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Although it is crazy.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
Though, I'm thinking, like in the I'm listening to like this, Sorry,
there's another podcast, not a rival podcast, just another one
out there called Strike Talk, but it's all about strike
and I'm like learning, like exactly what's going on, the
ins and outs. But there, you know, the whole this
whole conversation about mini rooms, which I didn't know what
they really were, and they're talking about how it's like
a showrunner and two writers and I'm breaking the whole
(03:12):
season instead of like a team of ten, and.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
I was like, that's it is crazy to think about
it was Ryan, Ian.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
And Brad when it was like just three people that
really broke and wrote and did the pre and the
post production. I was like, that's it really is like
outstanding how that happened and worked so well, Like what
a what a time?
Speaker 4 (03:29):
What a combination that.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Like twenty two episodes a season that way. They did
two full seasons, was just the three of them, which
is really crazy, and.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Not even ten episodes anymore, you know what I mean.
It was twenty two back in the day.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Imagine that.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
Yeah, they're talking about Mike White for White Lotus like
does it on his own. But again, right, it's eight
versus like yea twenty two and like, you know, forty
million storylines and it's pretty.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Pretty incredible, to be fair, they did the forty million
storylines that was on them. They ranks, right, they had control. Yeah,
take it.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Take us back to before you got Glee.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
What were you doing and then what was it like
when you got the call for your audition or what
was it that got you in the door?
Speaker 6 (04:15):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (04:15):
Man, Well, I was doing the valet restaurant game, you know,
the day job game and auditioning I did.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
I was working at a Macaroni grill restaurant and I
had missed a shift for a big callback for a
Montana meth project, which meth was a huge problem in Montana,
and they were doing a project to battlemeth through PSA's
and the director was Tony Kay who did American History X,
And I really wanted to obviously work with him, and
I booked that and so Macaroni Grill fired me.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
But that's how I got into SAG like the same day,
so that was cool. And then I was at another
restaurant just you know, doing like little little bits on
like Ghost Whisper, What about Brian.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
I had an agent.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
I egged him to get in for a series regular
on Glee because I think Jenna, you and I might
have been the only people actually in show choir. I
don't know, but I was like a huge, huge show
choir person in high school. We toured, we competed, like
I sang, I danced, you know, we like went to
the Bahamas, went to Chicago like we did it. I
was like, I lived the Glee life, loved Nip Tuck,
(05:21):
would have like Nip Tuck parties like at my parents' house,
at friend's houses. So like when I heard the creator
of Nip Tuck was doing the show about show choir,
I was like, please please get me in.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Nothing is more specifically right for you.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Right, But but in you know the world of Hollywood,
they didn't see me. You know, they DIDN'TY didn't see it.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
They didn't think I was right whatever, but I had
been dropping off my headshot every week at u DK
casting who cast you know, Robert Ulrich and Alex Numan
and everyone, and I dropped it off in the bin.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
I'm like, maybe they'll notice me, uh, And then yeah, they.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
Brought me in for it was two lines one day
for both Kowski and Azimio, who was a played by
James Earl, and we had to read for both parts.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
And I remember going in and I coached on it
for like two hours. It was like a big chunk.
It was like my big I think monologue if you will,
But it.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Was a chunk where I talked to Finn and Quinn
and I'm like, oh, you know, I've been wanting to
like slush you in the face since fifth grade when
you made fun of me and like you know, it's
my time now and you know, welcome to the new
world orders all that. But I was like, all right,
like let's coach, Like who is this guy? Why is
why is he saying this? Like why is he upset you?
I was like, let me, let me like stand out.
And of course I walked in like so prepared, but
then there's like, you know, forty five dudes, so like
(06:34):
Ashley Angel from O.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Town, and I was like, oh, like I'm going to
go back to the restaurant game like they're in no
way they're gonna go with me.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
But I went in and did my thing, and it
was crazy because Robert in the room was like, I
think you're the guy for this, which like never happens,
like that's like, you know, you have no idea, and
he was like, I think you're He's like that was
the best read of the day, Like, I think you're
my choice. And I was like, this would be a
dream come true. Who like, give me two lines? I
want to be on the show. Yeah, was already this
like hype in this buzz, like the show was going
(07:02):
to be shooting, you know, to the moon, and so
I was pumped.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Just to get on. Yeah, and I got the call.
I was doing theater.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
I was doing, uh, Richard the Second with the Shakespeare
troop porters of Ellsgate where I met my wife. Uh
yeah here in la it's not trained. Yeah, we were
in the Shakespeare in troop did much Ado and Macbeth
and Richard the Second and and I was in you know, and.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
I was like if I could do Shakespeare, like I
could I can bang out these.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Two lines on Glee and like, you know, and I
did it, and so I got the call and it
made made my day and uh then you know, then
went on to change my life. But yeah, it was
really exciting. I had no idea, you know, where it
would go, just two lines. And the biggest thing about
it was the slushy, because I remember when I came in,
they called me in advance on the call sheet to
(07:51):
practice with like the dummy, the first slush thrower.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
You you were the og.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Maybe I don't know, I don't there was somebody I'm
gonna pilot that slushy.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yes, leah, okay, fair, but I think that was I
think so.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
Though he didn't no, no this yeah, this this was
like and Paul Bruneger a propmaster.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Rest in peace. He was amazing. He was incredibly passionate
about these slushies.
Speaker 5 (08:16):
So he would talk to me for like hours, literally hours,
and it was like all right, like you know, we
we'll start with like little rubber pieces so it's not
really cold. But he's like the rubber like it bounces
off the face and it's not gonna be believable. So
he's like, we're gonna do it like the consistency, but
what We're gonna heat it in the microwave, like make it
like slightly.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Warm but it won't burn, and then like it wouldn't read.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
He's like like We're just We're just gonna do like
real slushy, but don't miss you get one take and
like if you missed, you know you're gonna mess up
the clothes and the makeup and the set. Everyone's gonna
be pissed. Like he's like, nail it. So I had
to come in and like prat you know. They adjusted
it to like Corey's height, and he was like, go
for the nose, we want the middle. We want to
explode all over the face, like don't get the chest,
don't get the chin.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
So so much pressure.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
I was like, what, Like I just I'm an actor,
Like I'm like a slushy thrower, Like.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
I don't know, like what's going to happen.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
And he was just you know, he'd be in the corner,
would be like just like stirring, like waiting for like
Corey to come around the corner, like right the last minute,
I'd better better get it right.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
And luckily, luckily, did you?
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Did you threw a lot of slushies, a lot of slushies.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
I got slushied once, but I had zombie makeup covering
my face, so it wasn't as bad.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
But yeah, be nice.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Were you guys slush e in the same episode? Was
it the super Bowl episode?
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (09:31):
Both.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
I was.
Speaker 5 (09:31):
I think we're coming down the hallway, uh in our
letterman jackets and uh yeah, slashed by the hockey players.
Have that?
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I believe that's right.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
That hockey team you were originally a part of.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Yeah, there was that. Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
I think I was in the hockey team sports behind
the scenes change of hearts.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, I'm just athlete. Yeah, Josh, exactly how did it
go from two lines, you getting these two lines to
becoming a huge, like central figure of the entirety of
(10:12):
the series. It was it, you know, well, you had
I mean, your character influenced one of the biggest characters
on the show. You had an incredible and crazy storyline
through all six seasons, and I love that it started
out as you just having you dropping your head shots
off at the casting director's office, you getting called in
(10:33):
and working on those two lines, and then are they
calling you back for oh, we need Eximio and Krofsky
back for another couple of lines here, and and it
just evolved.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
I was like I only thought there was that one.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
And then you know, like every actor's dream, you're like
I hope they notice you know something and.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Maybe bring me back.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
But like I was like, what can they notice in
like you know, two lines like I don't know, But
then yeah, I got that call that like they want
to bring you back, and I had like like another
line about super Cuts not taking walkings or or was Somethingeah,
you don't need an appointment at Supercuts they love walkings
or something.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
I was like, great, I'll come back again. This is
like you know, I get enough of these, I can
quit the restaurant, like you know.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
That's where I was like, let me just you know,
me for health insurance again.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
A dream, Like so cool because I'm like, you know,
a fan of the show, like a fan of show.
Choir Corey welcomed me with like gigantic heart, gigantic arm.
You know, it was like come on, like meet my
mind's mom was there the first day, Like I felt
like I was like I do want to be back,
but like who knows And basically I think it was
like five episodes maybe for the first season. And then
(11:39):
I remember the season two premiere party at Paramount, which
was still weird. I remember the story of like I
won't say who, but it was someone in the in
the audience when we were watching the movie, and I
remember like I sat down with Jen and like they
just turned to me and they were like, this is
for cast only, and I was like, no, right, but
like I am, like I've done like fun episodes like
I'm here. You know. It was like but like I
(11:59):
still wasn't even like recognized as like being part of Lee,
even though now I'd done five episodes with the restaurant.
I was like, I'm on Glee anyway. Season two premiere party,
Ryan comes up to me and like, you know, kind
of secretly is like we just wrote something really special
for you, and I was like, okay, cool, like you
know one yeah slushie or like a cool like a
(12:23):
one am I good, you know, magical slushie?
Speaker 4 (12:25):
And then yeah, I got the script.
Speaker 7 (12:27):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
And at this point, if you remember, I think you
guys maybe had the same thing where like someone would
actually come deliver you like an actual paper script because
you know, yeah, which is.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
Always exciting for me. I'm like, oh my gosh, like,
you know, so cool.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
And then that was the script has never been Kissed
where you know where Kiosky kissed his Kurt, And I
was just like I like leapt off the couch, excited
as heck, and like ran and told Gen and she
was like, oh my god. I was like this is
outstanding because I had coached this whole time about like
what is this guy's problem? Like what does he want?
Like why is he being a bully understanding bullies? And
I was like I was giving it so much more
(13:00):
and I felt I like had to, but I'm so
glad it developed into something that kind of felt real,
felt grounded, like gave him purpose for doing everything he
had been doing. You know.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
It was like in my mind, I was it was just.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
Like the natural jealousy of like he gets to sing
a song and be in the show choir on the
show and like I'm a jock and like I'm like
I'm gonna bully you for that. But then when it
was like revealed these were the reasons, I was like,
oh my gosh, I gets so much more complex and
there's so much more depth and like, you know, I
knew people like that in high school.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
So kind of a dream come true.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
And if you guys you remember Dante di Loretto, who
was a producer on the show, who was always very
cold to me and never really said anything to me,
But I remember him watching the rehearsals for the locker
room scene, and it was like the first time he
like smiled and like gave me that nod and like
came like patted me on the back and like a handshake,
and I was like, okay, like this is this needs
(13:51):
something And so I took it, you know, very seriously,
and I'm happy with the way it came out.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, we just watched an episode and you and Chris
were apps lead phenomenal in that scene, and you also
are just like beating the ship out of him the
whole episode.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, we were like, wow, that is intense.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
The whole series time there was there was like you know,
there's times when you know, it's like always shoving him
into like the locker bay, and I remember like, okay,
so someone from the crew is like, hey, can you
just like not push him that hard, Like let's let's
just like take it easy, you know, or like you
didn't see him.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Get like pad it up and I'm like I'm sorry,
like I don't know. I was trying to make the
sound and like get into it. And I was like,
oh my god, like you know, I was like Golden
Globe winner. I was like by pushing him into a locker.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
Billy fired so so terrible, and I was always like okay,
like I'm so sorry, you know, yeah, yeah, I definitely
you know, beat him up.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
I think you know, pushed Darren into the gate in
that episode. But yeah, that was a that was a
big one.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
And then I remember like right after that it was
crazy because it was like that life change of like
like I got invited with Josh Sussman and Patrick Gallagher
to go to d C to the Kennedy Center just
like recognition on like on the plane and like the
airports and.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Like the city.
Speaker 5 (14:57):
I was like, okay, like now I'm like getting a
sense of like you guys had you know, been living
with and I was like, whoa, it just changed like overnight,
like from the like before that episode aired to like
the night after.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
I was like this, like the world just became like.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Different, like through my eyes, and it's pretty crazy how
fast that happened.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
You know.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
Actually I remember getting invited the first time ever to
a screening, those casting crew lunch screenings. Brad had called me.
It was like, I think you're gonna be really proud
of this episode, and you know, come come to the screening.
And I remember leaving the screening and I remember you, Kevin.
Speaker 6 (15:27):
Like like running into my arms and like a big hug,
and like meant a lot that it was a validation,
you know from you of like okay, like you know, welcome,
welcome to the show, Like there's something that's like worth
you know doing.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I mean, it's just it's one of those you know,
we talked about the writer's strike, and it's so hard
to get a job. You're happy to have your two lines,
and then to be able to watch somebody come on
the show, and it's hard to be the person that
that pops in and pops out. I say time and
time again, it really is, because you especially when we're
(16:00):
an ensemble that's really close. And we talked to Josh
Susman about this and how you know, you two really
like related to each other because you had that similar
trajectory on the show and within the show, and so
to see somebody get given, get given that storyline and
then just be so good and the care you had
(16:24):
with CROSSI the entire time it was just, you know,
we got to watch our friends perform and sing and
do these crazy scenes, and we were always just always
so proud of each other. And then to be able
to see someone like you just bring it seemingly going
from oh, I'm just gonna say some mean thing, push
somebody up against the locker, and then here you are
with this really beautiful and sensitive storyline. It was just
(16:48):
it meant a lot to be able to like see
that as a friend, as a fellow actor, and just
being a fan of yours.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
It was you know, well, I thank you honestly. I mean, yeah,
it felt special.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
And you know, even now, it'll be tough to find
a roll that is that awesome and complex and nuanced
and on a show that gets that many ratings and
eyeballs like that was what, you know, we were so exciting.
So I had done stuff before that, and since then,
when you know you're shooting it and you're like, who
knows if this is going to see the light of day,
(17:20):
who knows how many people are going to watch? But
it was like it was so exciting being on that
set knowing like what we are doing is going to
get washed in a few weeks by like you know,
fourteen million people whatever whatever it was, and it's like
this will change some minds and change some hearts and
influence people, save lives. And that was the biggest thing too,
where like it was like okay, transcended just like a
role on TV to like making a difference, where like
(17:40):
I started getting all those you know, letters and messages
and emails.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Of like just people that had kind of worked.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
Like the big the biggest note was kind of like
they had seen some gay people portrayed on TV and
gay characters, but they weren't ever like the masculine like
Jock who you didn't see coming, and like thank God
for this because now they feel validated.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
They felt seen.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
It was things where like their family had disowned them,
and like after seeing this episode, the parents understood now
who they were and like reached out to like you know,
patch the family back up. And it was like just
like in like Germany, it was like crazy, like wow,
we just like patched the family up in Germany from
like this episode of television, Like that's insane to like
be just a part of it, which then make me,
(18:24):
you know, took everything just more seriously and kind of
felt that weight of like, Okay, like I'm representing like
a lot of you know, people that don't feel seen
and heard, which is like the whole point of the show, right,
But it was so weird about that, yeah, I mean yeah,
but so it was like I never had that conversation.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
There's never like that, you.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
Know, that Ryan sit down or like this is what
we're gonna do, like let's talk about it, or let's
talk about what people are like feeling about it, and
like I would try, but like not you know, no,
not much of a like a response.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
And I was like it was and to this day,
it's like it's so it is weird.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
It's like that the josh Usman thing of I don't
know if you guys remember like Life of Pie, but
like there's that whole like relationship he has, you know,
I think the lions, like Richard Parker or something, and
he just like wants that lions like look back and
acknowledge him, but like he just kind of goes.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Off into the woods. And I was like, I'm like
that's like Glee.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
I was like, like, no, there was never anyone that
was like, hey, like we did it, like good job
on the storyline, like you know, its just kind of
like it just kind of ended, and I was like
did that?
Speaker 4 (19:19):
Did that just happen?
Speaker 8 (19:20):
Like wow that it's like still like waiting for like
that like closure, and it is and it is weird,
but like you know, and I understand what you got
talking about too, because I've been on the other side
where I've been like the bigger part of shows and
it's like.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
Yeah, you're just you know, you kind of bond more
like all the time.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
Together, and it's like the guest stars are great and awesome,
but like you just don't.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
It's like it's like you know, like in high school,
where like.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
You know, you could all go to the same school,
but like unless you're like you have like that one
you know, night of partying where like some truth and
some tears.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Coming here, you have like that bond.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
You talk about it the next day and it's like,
oh cool, like he's in my science class, but like,
you know, we're not.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
We're just not like that.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
So I always understood like the backing order, you know,
like where it was, but yeah, weird that like the
outside world was like he's Onlee, like your Lee cast
member been like doing it. I was like, but like
am I kind of like straddling like the fence of
like when will I be back?
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Will I be back?
Speaker 5 (20:14):
Like?
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Am I going back to the breadlines?
Speaker 5 (20:16):
Like it was a very weird like you know, like
aye unstable kind of six years, but also like most
exciting and rewarding. So yeah, still trying to deal with that,
you know totally.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
I mean, yeah, it's such a big storyline, even after
that initial kiss from you know, the big episode where
you attempt suicide. I mean it's such a massive undertaking.
I'm curious like what that was like when you read
that script. Did you know you were coming? Did you
know that was coming? Did Ryan drop any nuggets and
like what the response was or did you feel like
(20:53):
did it shift at that point or what?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (20:58):
I guess I kind of like solidify, I made my
place like in you know, in the show, but also
like I was again excited about it because working with
my coach, it was kind of like this guy's and
you know, a small town uh worried about his sexuality
getting out there like his dad, you know, society, Like
in reality, he would probably think about suicide. But I
(21:20):
was like, they would never do this on like a
Fox musical comic in.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
A way, there'll be some kind of hout.
Speaker 5 (21:26):
So when that actually came to me, you know, the script,
I was like, oh my gosh. It was like it
was really thank you to the writers for like doing
this character justice and like showing what could happen to
someone in that situation and in that position, and like
you know, like let's let's be real about it and
like let's really you know again, touch lives and like
save some hearts, you know, and change people's minds and
open up people's eyes.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
And it was a brutal episode to film.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
Like I was in a very you know, dark space,
because you really I had like understand like what would
lead someone to commit suicide and like just like the
hopelessness and like the not having anyone to turn to
and just like being like at like the literal like
you know, end of your rope.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
And like, you know, just it's dark. And I remember
sitting like on a.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
Golf cart with Brad Beeker like right outside the studio
for like I don't like an hour, and he was
telling me like these really vulnerable things about like you know,
his life and his mindset and just like where he's been.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
And I was like confessing stuff.
Speaker 5 (22:17):
To him, but like like when my mom passed, and
it was like this very like emotional like talk that
put me in a great space to like go in
and and then film and then again I knew I'm
like representing people because at this time this was where
like Fox started like kind of sending me to like, uh, doctor.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Phil or like Access Hollywood or Doctor Drew.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
Like I was like out there like talking about teen
suicides and cyber bullying because if you remember, this was
like Twitter was huge then still, but like this was
like the forefront of like when Anderson, Cooper and Ellen
like everyone was talking about cyber bullying and teen suicides
and I was like, this is crazy that I'm like
playing this role at this time in the world, like
this might not ever happen again. So yeah, it was huge,
(22:57):
And the biggest reward of that was I remember were
like at the end, it was like the Trevor Project.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Kind of flash.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Their hotline at the end of the episode was like,
you know, if you need to help and you're dealing
with stuff, and then I think that I don't know,
the stats are out there somewhere, but it was like
the calls went up like through the roof, Like it
was the highest percentage of people that ever reached out to.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
The hotline for help, like minutes after that episode.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
And so again, to like to be a part of
that was just like, uh, you know, incredibly rewarding and
uh you.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Know, yeah, how lovely it was. I mean, you never
been kissed in that episode. You had Brad Peeker at
the helm both times, just like the most thoughtful generous person.
Was that helpful because he was there for because he
was there for like the advent of Krofsky's real journey,
(23:48):
having him sort of be a through line because like
the Dante's and Ryan's were you know, doing other things, Beeker,
you know, was there and because he was editing the
show the whole time, really knew every all the characters,
so so well, like, did you find that as an
actor helpful to have him be able to connect those
(24:08):
thoughts for you?
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Incredibly?
Speaker 5 (24:10):
I absolutely love working with him and I told him.
I told him that too, because I never been kissed.
I found I found it was. I think it was
the first time I'd ever worked with like a director
who was an editor really.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
And that was his first episode for US. Oh I'm directing.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
Yeah, well I never would have known.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
It's incredible and we were definitely bonded in that episode.
And what I loved about it was like, I don't know,
there must have been like twenty something takes for like
like the locker room scene, you know, they all the
different coverage, but like it was so fun because he
would like come out like I came in from like
one door and Chris came in from like another door.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
And I remember Brad would go back and forth in.
Speaker 5 (24:45):
Between the takes and he would like kind of whisper
something to Chris to change up his performance in a
certain way, bring something, hear something new. Then he would
come to me and he was like what if what
if I you know, you go you go to Chris
and like you know, you do this and that kind
of thing. And I was like, okay, great, And it
was just his freedom to like let's just try that
because like we'll have twenty more takes, like let's just
like throw everything out there. And it was like such
(25:07):
an amazing like like good, like everything I was thinking about,
everything he was thinking about, Like let's just throw it
all out there and like keep it fresh and keep
it new and kind of like surprise for you know,
slam the locker this time, like punch this, you know,
come out.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
It was like try the second kiss. It was like,
let's just.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
Try everything that I'm feeling and like not hold back
or worry about getting it like right as far as
like correct, but like right like just from the heart.
So that was like amazing and I was like, God,
I always want to work with Brad again. And uh
it was yeah, incredible the way it came out. And
then the same thing you know with the suicide episode,
there was just on my way. There was just that
trust already like built in, and it was just kind
(25:43):
of like look like you know, I don't know how
many tears you can get out of me, but like
I'm just like let's just just like you know, like
when I open this laptop and like I see like
the comments like let's just like you know, stay on
me first, like give me this chance, like do that
do this? Like okay, cool coming to get you know
this angle and like you know this and that it
was like it was just really great working with him
and just you know, like understanding the vibe like that
last time you're getting dressed, like like am I really
(26:05):
going to do this?
Speaker 4 (26:07):
The fear the release.
Speaker 5 (26:11):
I remember how like carefully he treated that whole, like
where I walked through the locker room and see uh
fag written on the locker and just like you know,
he was like it's gonna be like in slow motion,
like I just want to see like you know, like
your life kind of like leave your body. And again
the way he like shot and like pushed in then
like q cough syrup.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
I was like, oh my gosh, like it's pretty powerful.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
I'm like I'm like the guy, but I'm like I
was like getting emotional watching it, and I was like shit,
like he did a really good job. And then me
and Brad like together we got we got invited to
like go to Sacramento for a couple of years and
like be a part of this great program called Directing
Change because of that episode, and it was all it
was like all these high school students were making short
films about mental health awareness and like you know, stigmas
(26:54):
and suicide prevention, and me and Brad were there to
like spe I represent, you know, and like be either
speak to the kids and judge the videos. Like again,
it kind of became this like all right, like now
we're we're out there in the real world.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
Like talking about these issues from the storyline.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
So it really did take on you know, like a
pretty serious part of my life, like understand what I
was talking about and talking to real kids going through it,
and it was like, all right, this is more than
just like memorizing lines and you know, showing up so
again you know, awards and you know ratings, and it
was like such a crazy crazy time is.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
As you know, yeah, yeah, for sure, it is crazy
to think about. You mentioned this a couple of minutes ago.
How when the show came out and it started to
do well, we became very conscious of, oh, you know,
(27:46):
X number of people are going to see what we're
doing right now, Like we having that I don't know
ability when we did the first thirteen episodes, don't have
seen anything except the pilot, but knowing that you're doing
these really serious things and then being able to like
in three weeks as it was like a three week turnaround,
(28:09):
did you in those three weeks sort of thing. Did
you ever get scared or nervous? Especially with every time
you were on screen you had some really heavy shit
like you weren't you weren't there, We were clowns a
lot of the time. You you were really handling tough
issues and so like for us, like I'm excited for
(28:31):
my parents to see this musical number we're doing. This
is fun, you know, like I get out of my
chair to dance. You are acting through some really tough things.
Was did you ever have you know, I got scared
for people to see some things like that flux of
feelings of is this gonna work? Did we do this correctly?
(28:52):
Because you're you're talking about suicide, You're talking about a
bully kissing the person he's bullying. Yeah, what was going
through your head? Because knowing that like fifteen million people
were going to see this in three weeks as you
were shooting it.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
Excitement like there was there was, There was no fear,
And it was actually interesting because I mean, you know,
I moved out here in LA when I was eighteen,
right after high school and kind of like didn't do
the college thing, and it's like a risky thing.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
I was like, well, I'm doing like senior recital, like singing, and.
Speaker 5 (29:18):
It's like everyone's like I'm going to you know, Brown
and Carnegie, Mellon and Emerson, and I'm like, I'm just
gonna go to La and see what happened.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Like I don't know. Don't laugh at me, you know.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
But as I got better make it, it was like there
was no plan B. So yeah, to be on like
a dream show with a dream creator, knowing people are
watching it, and all my high school friends were watching it,
and like you know, all the texts and calls every week,
and like it.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Just felt incredible.
Speaker 5 (29:42):
I had like a big, a big support base from
family and friends and actually I don't even know if
you guys even knew.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
It was so crazy. There was there was jen you know.
Speaker 5 (29:51):
My wife had gone to like study theater in London
with this guy Jeremy o'keef who ended up being a
casting director who I like overheard while I was working
at a restaurant talking about how he also like bartends
at a bar called Silver Spoon, which is like on
Santa Monica Boulevard, and like they had this back room
that they would have glee nights and like they had
TVs where everyone would come. It was I think it
(30:13):
was a gay bar, and it was like, you know,
they'd joke Lee and have drinks and Lee straws.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
There was the whole thing.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
And so like I was like, you know, like I'm
actually on that show. Do you want some more lemonade?
But like I was like I am like a bunch
of episodes and he's like, come on buy and so
like I remember like it started becoming a thing.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Like I would go with like.
Speaker 5 (30:30):
Twenty friends and we'd all like watch the episode and like,
you know, I have some drinks and like it was.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
A it was a big deal. It was really exciting.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
And but I remember when I got Never Been Kissed
the script and there were people like on the you
know crew uh other you know, there's people there's guys
that were like is your dad gonna be cool with this?
Like what what is he going to say? You're kissing
a dude like on National TV?
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Like what do you what are you gonna do? Like
use it like a liver protector or something.
Speaker 5 (30:59):
I was like like no, Like I didn't even like
think about that until I was like asked confronted with that,
because I was like no, like what like I'm an actor,
and like you kiss like as a kiss and like
lips or lips, and like the storyline is the storyline?
Speaker 4 (31:14):
Like I don't, I don't. I didn't really think about
like that element of it.
Speaker 5 (31:18):
I just thought about like the character of you know,
like what's coming like that, you know, the instinct of
like why he's been doing what he's been doing for
a year and like this release and.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Honestly kind of reminded me a little bit Huh you.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Took it so seriously like you care? I did, Yeah,
but you're right.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
So it almost felt like I was shooting a different show.
Speaker 5 (31:36):
It was like it was like a very It was
like a different tone, and I was like, this is
crazy that they're putting this in this episode.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
But like we always say, it's like the hurt and
the bird and like the heavy like and the heart
of the show and then you've got like the clowns.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
That was work. It was beautiful.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
It was like through through the circus of that was
like you have like that little dose of like hey,
let me like found you in the heart with this.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
You know, it worked, but it really.
Speaker 5 (32:03):
It reminded me like of you know that American beauty
scene where like Chris Cooper kind of goes and like
kisses Kevin Spacey in the garage and I remember that scene.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
You know, rattles me still, and I was like that
was powerful.
Speaker 5 (32:15):
So was like, okay, we can come, you know, anywhere
close to like capturing that feeling of just like the
release of what this guy must be feeling, like wondering
what it feels like to kiss a guy, you know,
after sixteen years, you know whatever, it is.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Like, let's show that release.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
And then yeah, and then I found out you know,
Ryan knew people like that in high school, and I
think Brad Salchak has a friend named Dave Kurowski and
he started messaging me on Facebook.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
So I.
Speaker 5 (32:44):
And like not at all like the character, just like
you know, but anyway, yeah, it was. It was very rewarding,
and I was very excited to do that storyline and
really never had It was actually weird, was like more
negative before Crosskey kind of exposed as like what his
deal is. There's more negative, like comments on the street
like you know, I leave Kurtlotop, you know, and then
(33:08):
it was it became like thank you, Like, oh my gosh,
I agree, like thank you.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
I feel seeing it or whatever, and I was like, whoa,
this is like, this is a different it's a very
crazy ride.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Speaking of a crazy ride, your storylines get even crazier.
Oh yeah, yeah, we were doing some research because I
have no memory of this, but please.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
We don't remember seasons season five and six.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Yeah, tell me about you and your new lover Blade.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Well, someone tweeted me a couple of weeks ago, or
they tweeted and like, this is what I knew. Glee
became off the rails and it was when Krofsky and
Blaine started dating. And I retweeted it and said, this
happened because I have no no offense to you or anybody.
I don't even know what happened with me. I don't
(34:01):
know anything.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
I don't even know.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I don't know where we were at that time, No,
I don't.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah, it was it was a long time time.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
Along for the ride.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
Yeah, it was a long time ago. It was a
long time in it was. It was we were in
this this cyclone blur, you know, it was.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
It was wild.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Uh yeah, how do you tell us about that experience?
What happened?
Speaker 4 (34:19):
I mean again a blur?
Speaker 5 (34:20):
At that point, I was like, all right, I've done,
you know, I've done what I'm gonna do, like the
serious stuff for this character that's gonna make an impact.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Like has has stopped.
Speaker 5 (34:31):
Then the show has changed, the world's changed, We've all
gone through some things. But again, just like happy to
be along for the ride, happy to be a part
of the show, happy to keep seeing you guys and
putting on the jacket, happy to you know, have an
income and be working, and really just it was fun
at that point.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
It was kind of like you know, there was there
was so.
Speaker 5 (34:51):
Much pressure on those earlier episodes where I was like
sitting in my like you guys would like be having
like fun and like you know, the base camp and
I was like.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
In my trailer like doing like breathing exercises. Just I
was back.
Speaker 5 (35:01):
I had one shot to like nail this and like,
you know, represent hundreds of thousands of.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Peopce assholes are singing Lady Gaga and I.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Wish I was through Lady Gaga.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
But no, there's like a freedom in that of like
you know, you all have like each other and having fun.
And I was like I like, shoot, like it's this
is like on me, and like I better nail it
or like I'm not asked back. So there was a
very big like pressure until season six and I was
like all right, cool, Like I'm walking in there's a
bear cub. There's like Jane Lynch telling me me and
Darren are related with a family tree at a restaurant,
(35:34):
like I don't know, but like love Darren, Like Darren
and I hit it off at that first episode, never
been kissed, we like bonded, and you know we're we're
still close, and so like I was like this is insane,
but like, hey, I get to work with you. I
get to work with my buddies and work with you
and Chris and and you know, cool directors and have
a good time.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
And it was fun just to be a part.
Speaker 5 (35:52):
Of it without the weight of you know, like the
pressure of what it was at that point. And also
though really, you know, I think a nice happy ending
that like it didn't result into his side and like
he is okay to be out in the world and
be happy and date and go do line dancing at
gay bars and uh, you know, be out there and
(36:13):
and kind of like gives give people hope, like there
is you know, there is a life, and there is
a world that like will accept you and there are
you know, people will understand you and kind of feel
free to reach out to people and try new things.
And so I was appreciative of that and that like
it didn't end in a tragic way.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
But yeah, so I just I just had fun. But yeah,
it was. It was a weird. It was a weird thing.
I me and Blaine dated. Uh.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I tried to date of Datum too, so don't worry.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Yeah, Tina tried to date Blaine too, So it's fine.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
We all tried.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
We all tried.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
Sure, yeah, yeah try why not, you know, but it
was it was a good time.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Before we wrap this up, Max, I'm curious. We ask everybody,
like what is the feeling that leaves you.
Speaker 5 (36:56):
With honestly, like longing it's kind of sad, but I
do I think it was a great It was a
great time in in my life. Like it was like
a you know, a huge hit show and all the
perks that come with all the all the you know,
all the stuff, the award shows and the restaurants and
the fun, you know, the life that comes with it
and like being seen, you know for your work and uh,
(37:17):
and yeah, I don't know, you know, who knows if
something like that, Well it was like lightning in a bottle,
so who knows if or when it will come again.
And also you know, Jenna, you know, you know, I'm parent,
you know, everything's different now, like you know, marriage and kids,
and it's like that, I can't believe, like that happened
when we were like in our twenties and like footloose
and fancy free, like you know what a time like
that again, Like it's it won't really be the same,
(37:39):
Like that was very cool, and you know with all
those people like the same age like going through it.
So yeah, like I I miss it, and I really
do look upon those times very fondly because I don't
think I was like in the trenches or the drama
as much as you know, you guys obviously were, so.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Uh, it's kind of all all good for me and
I I I miss it.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
That's awesome. Well, we we're grateful to have you.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
We've been watching the show again obviously with this podcast
and like as a viewer versus like you know, an
actor in the show, and it's just really it's really
different and profound and a beautiful, like more positive lightweight
and we get to see the work that you put
in and then talk to you about how serious you
(38:26):
really did take your role and as an actor, and
you're you know, just approached Krofski and and it really
paid off. And so we're really grateful for you and
your time on the show and what you shared with
everybody and then coming on and hanging out.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
With this again and just your friendship.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
So thanks Max, Well, thank you, feelings mutual. Thank you
for everything you guys did on the show.
Speaker 7 (38:49):
Pretty cool, you know, thank you very very thanks for
having congrat podcast, and thank you.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Out of the family.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Thanks. I'm sure we're gonna have to voice you. I'm
sure a lot more as.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
We do y question memories and things, and we'll voice you.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
Bring I'll I'll be standing by.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Awesome, Thanks so much. Is so good to see you.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
So good to see you. Thanks guys, take care Bye.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Did you know David Truma quit TV right before he
got Friends.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
He quit and went back to Chicago to do theater,
and Marta Coffman and all the creators friends were like,
but we wrote this with you and Mi with Ross,
so you have to come back and do it. And
he is like, and they're like, he had a bad
experience on another TV show. I can't remember which one
it was. And he's like, never again, I'm not doing
TV ever again and the like we promised it will
(39:43):
be different.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Just come back and he's like, all right, well, if
you're write for me, I'll come back. There's there's friends.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Well see what happens when you're good like Max is
just good. Yeah, Like we had no idea he had
all that like formal that's right. Training.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Well, thanks Max coming on and thanks for listening with us,
and hope your.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Sweet man keep it up. Sweet, you're so talented.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Can't wait to see you on the next.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
You know, we need to get into that. We have
to have him back. We have so many more questions
for everyone.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, we'll have him for the next big Crafts gift.
So great, that's what you really missed.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
See ya. Thanks for listening and follow us on Instagram
at and that's what you really miss pod. Make sure
to write us a review and leave us five stars.
See you next time.
And That's what You Really missed with Jenna.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And Kevin an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Welcome to and That's What You Really miss Podcast. Today,
we have a very special guest, Kevin.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
McHale the.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Grim. Wow, you couldn't do better than me.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Well, we do have a special guest. It's not you,
but we.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Have it's someone more special for sure. We have Max
adler Kowski is here.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
The show choir extraordinary himself.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, like the only person who was actually in show choir.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Yeah, I was in like select choir.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
But he like corn and like like competed and stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
So he's really legit. He's legit.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
He's legit. We find out he's legit in every way
that I didn't really know coming into this, Like he
was the most qualified person on this show.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I mean true, I'm surprised they didn't auditioning for Puck.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I know.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
It's like now that you see Mark, like, yeah, I
knew what they were going for, but like, you know,
like why did.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I don't know what? Robert Oric had a vision and
he's said everyone and really nailed it. So and Robert Oric,
I trust.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yeah, no questions asked, Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, Max is here, give it up for Max Appler.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Hey, you agreed going on. Good to see you.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Welcome to the show. We have a lot to talk about,
so let's just let's just do it. But how are
you doing, You've got a kiddy.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Or figure out? Fan's good. Everyone's healthy. You know, I'm
still still my wife Jen, who you guys know.
Speaker 5 (01:33):
And now we have a Dylan who is three and
two months talking up a storm, interested in planes and
garbage trucks and construction vehicles and all the things. And
we're battling to get him to sleep in his own room.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
So there's that.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
But everyone, everyone's good now, just you know, figuring out
the life amidst the strike, and you know what I
will do this summer and uh, you know, but yeah,
producing acting, things are things are good, but you know,
navigating the craziness of this business, like we all are.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Right, and it's it's so interesting too because the last
time this writers strike happened, Glee. Could we talk to
Ian a few months ago and he was saying, now,
you know, Glee happened randomly during the last writer's strike. Yeah,
so here we are again, So maybe there will be
some new opportunities for all of us. Outside of it
(02:28):
worked out for us last time asking for it. Let's
do something.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Yeah, that's that.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
Hopefully it could be a shoe in you'd think you
actually know, I'm never gonna work for I.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Don't think I'm invited back sport.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah the same. We'll also just be watching.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Although it is crazy.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
Though, I'm thinking, like in the I'm listening to like this, Sorry,
there's another podcast, not a rival podcast, just another one
out there called Strike Talk, but it's all about strike
and I'm like learning, like exactly what's going on, the
ins and outs. But there, you know, the whole this
whole conversation about mini rooms, which I didn't know what
they really were, and they're talking about how it's like
a showrunner and two writers and I'm breaking the whole
(03:12):
season instead of like a team of ten, and.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
I was like, that's it is crazy to think about
it was Ryan, Ian.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
And Brad when it was like just three people that
really broke and wrote and did the pre and the
post production. I was like, that's it really is like
outstanding how that happened and worked so well, Like what
a what a time?
Speaker 4 (03:29):
What a combination that.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Like twenty two episodes a season that way. They did
two full seasons, was just the three of them, which
is really crazy, and.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Not even ten episodes anymore, you know what I mean.
It was twenty two back in the day.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Imagine that.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
Yeah, they're talking about Mike White for White Lotus like
does it on his own. But again, right, it's eight
versus like yea twenty two and like, you know, forty
million storylines and it's pretty.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Pretty incredible, to be fair, they did the forty million
storylines that was on them. They ranks, right, they had control. Yeah,
take it.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Take us back to before you got Glee.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
What were you doing and then what was it like
when you got the call for your audition or what
was it that got you in the door?
Speaker 6 (04:15):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (04:15):
Man, Well, I was doing the valet restaurant game, you know,
the day job game and auditioning I did.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
I was working at a Macaroni grill restaurant and I
had missed a shift for a big callback for a
Montana meth project, which meth was a huge problem in Montana,
and they were doing a project to battlemeth through PSA's
and the director was Tony Kay who did American History X,
And I really wanted to obviously work with him, and
I booked that and so Macaroni Grill fired me.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
But that's how I got into SAG like the same day,
so that was cool. And then I was at another
restaurant just you know, doing like little little bits on
like Ghost Whisper, What about Brian.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
I had an agent.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
I egged him to get in for a series regular
on Glee because I think Jenna, you and I might
have been the only people actually in show choir. I
don't know, but I was like a huge, huge show
choir person in high school. We toured, we competed, like
I sang, I danced, you know, we like went to
the Bahamas, went to Chicago like we did it. I
was like, I lived the Glee life, loved Nip Tuck,
(05:21):
would have like Nip Tuck parties like at my parents' house,
at friend's houses. So like when I heard the creator
of Nip Tuck was doing the show about show choir,
I was like, please please get me in.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Nothing is more specifically right for you.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Right, But but in you know the world of Hollywood,
they didn't see me. You know, they DIDN'TY didn't see it.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
They didn't think I was right whatever, but I had
been dropping off my headshot every week at u DK
casting who cast you know, Robert Ulrich and Alex Numan
and everyone, and I dropped it off in the bin.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
I'm like, maybe they'll notice me, uh, And then yeah, they.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
Brought me in for it was two lines one day
for both Kowski and Azimio, who was a played by
James Earl, and we had to read for both parts.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
And I remember going in and I coached on it
for like two hours. It was like a big chunk.
It was like my big I think monologue if you will,
But it.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Was a chunk where I talked to Finn and Quinn
and I'm like, oh, you know, I've been wanting to
like slush you in the face since fifth grade when
you made fun of me and like you know, it's
my time now and you know, welcome to the new
world orders all that. But I was like, all right,
like let's coach, Like who is this guy? Why is
why is he saying this? Like why is he upset you?
I was like, let me, let me like stand out.
And of course I walked in like so prepared, but
then there's like, you know, forty five dudes, so like
(06:34):
Ashley Angel from O.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Town, and I was like, oh, like I'm going to
go back to the restaurant game like they're in no
way they're gonna go with me.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
But I went in and did my thing, and it
was crazy because Robert in the room was like, I
think you're the guy for this, which like never happens,
like that's like, you know, you have no idea, and
he was like, I think you're He's like that was
the best read of the day, Like, I think you're
my choice. And I was like, this would be a
dream come true. Who like, give me two lines? I
want to be on the show. Yeah, was already this
like hype in this buzz, like the show was going
(07:02):
to be shooting, you know, to the moon, and so
I was pumped.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Just to get on. Yeah, and I got the call.
I was doing theater.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
I was doing, uh, Richard the Second with the Shakespeare
troop porters of Ellsgate where I met my wife. Uh
yeah here in la it's not trained. Yeah, we were
in the Shakespeare in troop did much Ado and Macbeth
and Richard the Second and and I was in you know, and.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
I was like if I could do Shakespeare, like I
could I can bang out these.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Two lines on Glee and like, you know, and I
did it, and so I got the call and it
made made my day and uh then you know, then
went on to change my life. But yeah, it was
really exciting. I had no idea, you know, where it
would go, just two lines. And the biggest thing about
it was the slushy, because I remember when I came in,
they called me in advance on the call sheet to
(07:51):
practice with like the dummy, the first slush thrower.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
You you were the og.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Maybe I don't know, I don't there was somebody I'm
gonna pilot that slushy.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yes, leah, okay, fair, but I think that was I
think so.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
Though he didn't no, no this yeah, this this was
like and Paul Bruneger a propmaster.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Rest in peace. He was amazing. He was incredibly passionate
about these slushies.
Speaker 5 (08:16):
So he would talk to me for like hours, literally hours,
and it was like all right, like you know, we
we'll start with like little rubber pieces so it's not
really cold. But he's like the rubber like it bounces
off the face and it's not gonna be believable. So
he's like, we're gonna do it like the consistency, but
what We're gonna heat it in the microwave, like make it
like slightly.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Warm but it won't burn, and then like it wouldn't read.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
He's like like We're just We're just gonna do like
real slushy, but don't miss you get one take and
like if you missed, you know you're gonna mess up
the clothes and the makeup and the set. Everyone's gonna
be pissed. Like he's like, nail it. So I had
to come in and like prat you know. They adjusted
it to like Corey's height, and he was like, go
for the nose, we want the middle. We want to
explode all over the face, like don't get the chest,
don't get the chin.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
So so much pressure.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
I was like, what, Like I just I'm an actor,
Like I'm like a slushy thrower, Like.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
I don't know, like what's going to happen.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
And he was just you know, he'd be in the corner,
would be like just like stirring, like waiting for like
Corey to come around the corner, like right the last minute,
I'd better better get it right.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
And luckily, luckily, did you?
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Did you threw a lot of slushies, a lot of slushies.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
I got slushied once, but I had zombie makeup covering
my face, so it wasn't as bad.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
But yeah, be nice.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Were you guys slush e in the same episode? Was
it the super Bowl episode?
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (09:31):
Both.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
I was.
Speaker 5 (09:31):
I think we're coming down the hallway, uh in our
letterman jackets and uh yeah, slashed by the hockey players.
Have that?
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I believe that's right.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
That hockey team you were originally a part of.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Yeah, there was that. Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
I think I was in the hockey team sports behind
the scenes change of hearts.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, I'm just athlete. Yeah, Josh, exactly how did it
go from two lines, you getting these two lines to
becoming a huge, like central figure of the entirety of
(10:12):
the series. It was it, you know, well, you had
I mean, your character influenced one of the biggest characters
on the show. You had an incredible and crazy storyline
through all six seasons, and I love that it started
out as you just having you dropping your head shots
off at the casting director's office, you getting called in
(10:33):
and working on those two lines, and then are they
calling you back for oh, we need Eximio and Krofsky
back for another couple of lines here, and and it
just evolved.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
I was like I only thought there was that one.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
And then you know, like every actor's dream, you're like
I hope they notice you know something and.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Maybe bring me back.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
But like I was like, what can they notice in
like you know, two lines like I don't know, But
then yeah, I got that call that like they want
to bring you back, and I had like like another
line about super Cuts not taking walkings or or was Somethingeah,
you don't need an appointment at Supercuts they love walkings
or something.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
I was like, great, I'll come back again. This is
like you know, I get enough of these, I can
quit the restaurant, like you know.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
That's where I was like, let me just you know,
me for health insurance again.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
A dream, Like so cool because I'm like, you know,
a fan of the show, like a fan of show.
Choir Corey welcomed me with like gigantic heart, gigantic arm.
You know, it was like come on, like meet my
mind's mom was there the first day, Like I felt
like I was like I do want to be back,
but like who knows And basically I think it was
like five episodes maybe for the first season. And then
(11:39):
I remember the season two premiere party at Paramount, which
was still weird. I remember the story of like I
won't say who, but it was someone in the in
the audience when we were watching the movie, and I
remember like I sat down with Jen and like they
just turned to me and they were like, this is
for cast only, and I was like, no, right, but
like I am, like I've done like fun episodes like
I'm here. You know. It was like but like I
(11:59):
still wasn't even like recognized as like being part of Lee,
even though now I'd done five episodes with the restaurant.
I was like, I'm on Glee anyway. Season two premiere party,
Ryan comes up to me and like, you know, kind
of secretly is like we just wrote something really special
for you, and I was like, okay, cool, like you
know one yeah slushie or like a cool like a
(12:23):
one am I good, you know, magical slushie?
Speaker 4 (12:25):
And then yeah, I got the script.
Speaker 7 (12:27):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
And at this point, if you remember, I think you
guys maybe had the same thing where like someone would
actually come deliver you like an actual paper script because
you know, yeah, which is.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
Always exciting for me. I'm like, oh my gosh, like,
you know, so cool.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
And then that was the script has never been Kissed
where you know where Kiosky kissed his Kurt, And I
was just like I like leapt off the couch, excited
as heck, and like ran and told Gen and she
was like, oh my god. I was like this is
outstanding because I had coached this whole time about like
what is this guy's problem? Like what does he want?
Like why is he being a bully understanding bullies? And
I was like I was giving it so much more
(13:00):
and I felt I like had to, but I'm so
glad it developed into something that kind of felt real,
felt grounded, like gave him purpose for doing everything he
had been doing. You know.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
It was like in my mind, I was it was just.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
Like the natural jealousy of like he gets to sing
a song and be in the show choir on the
show and like I'm a jock and like I'm like
I'm gonna bully you for that. But then when it
was like revealed these were the reasons, I was like,
oh my gosh, I gets so much more complex and
there's so much more depth and like, you know, I
knew people like that in high school.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
So kind of a dream come true.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
And if you guys you remember Dante di Loretto, who
was a producer on the show, who was always very
cold to me and never really said anything to me,
But I remember him watching the rehearsals for the locker
room scene, and it was like the first time he
like smiled and like gave me that nod and like
came like patted me on the back and like a handshake,
and I was like, okay, like this is this needs
(13:51):
something And so I took it, you know, very seriously,
and I'm happy with the way it came out.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, we just watched an episode and you and Chris
were apps lead phenomenal in that scene, and you also
are just like beating the ship out of him the
whole episode.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, we were like, wow, that is intense.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
The whole series time there was there was like you know,
there's times when you know, it's like always shoving him
into like the locker bay, and I remember like, okay,
so someone from the crew is like, hey, can you
just like not push him that hard, Like let's let's
just like take it easy, you know, or like you
didn't see him.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Get like pad it up and I'm like I'm sorry,
like I don't know. I was trying to make the
sound and like get into it. And I was like,
oh my god, like you know, I was like Golden
Globe winner. I was like by pushing him into a locker.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
Billy fired so so terrible, and I was always like okay,
like I'm so sorry, you know, yeah, yeah, I definitely
you know, beat him up.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
I think you know, pushed Darren into the gate in
that episode. But yeah, that was a that was a
big one.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
And then I remember like right after that it was
crazy because it was like that life change of like
like I got invited with Josh Sussman and Patrick Gallagher
to go to d C to the Kennedy Center just
like recognition on like on the plane and like the
airports and.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Like the city.
Speaker 5 (14:57):
I was like, okay, like now I'm like getting a
sense of like you guys had you know, been living
with and I was like, whoa, it just changed like overnight,
like from the like before that episode aired to like
the night after.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
I was like this, like the world just became like.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Different, like through my eyes, and it's pretty crazy how
fast that happened.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
You know.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
Actually I remember getting invited the first time ever to
a screening, those casting crew lunch screenings. Brad had called me.
It was like, I think you're gonna be really proud
of this episode, and you know, come come to the screening.
And I remember leaving the screening and I remember you, Kevin.
Speaker 6 (15:27):
Like like running into my arms and like a big hug,
and like meant a lot that it was a validation,
you know from you of like okay, like you know, welcome,
welcome to the show, Like there's something that's like worth
you know doing.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I mean, it's just it's one of those you know,
we talked about the writer's strike, and it's so hard
to get a job. You're happy to have your two lines,
and then to be able to watch somebody come on
the show, and it's hard to be the person that
that pops in and pops out. I say time and
time again, it really is, because you especially when we're
(16:00):
an ensemble that's really close. And we talked to Josh
Susman about this and how you know, you two really
like related to each other because you had that similar
trajectory on the show and within the show, and so
to see somebody get given, get given that storyline and
then just be so good and the care you had
(16:24):
with CROSSI the entire time it was just, you know,
we got to watch our friends perform and sing and
do these crazy scenes, and we were always just always
so proud of each other. And then to be able
to see someone like you just bring it seemingly going
from oh, I'm just gonna say some mean thing, push
somebody up against the locker, and then here you are
with this really beautiful and sensitive storyline. It was just
(16:48):
it meant a lot to be able to like see
that as a friend, as a fellow actor, and just
being a fan of yours.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
It was you know, well, I thank you honestly. I mean, yeah,
it felt special.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
And you know, even now, it'll be tough to find
a roll that is that awesome and complex and nuanced
and on a show that gets that many ratings and
eyeballs like that was what, you know, we were so exciting.
So I had done stuff before that, and since then,
when you know you're shooting it and you're like, who
knows if this is going to see the light of day,
(17:20):
who knows how many people are going to watch? But
it was like it was so exciting being on that
set knowing like what we are doing is going to
get washed in a few weeks by like you know,
fourteen million people whatever whatever it was, and it's like
this will change some minds and change some hearts and
influence people, save lives. And that was the biggest thing too,
where like it was like okay, transcended just like a
role on TV to like making a difference, where like
(17:40):
I started getting all those you know, letters and messages
and emails.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Of like just people that had kind of worked.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
Like the big the biggest note was kind of like
they had seen some gay people portrayed on TV and
gay characters, but they weren't ever like the masculine like
Jock who you didn't see coming, and like thank God
for this because now they feel validated.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
They felt seen.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
It was things where like their family had disowned them,
and like after seeing this episode, the parents understood now
who they were and like reached out to like you know,
patch the family back up. And it was like just
like in like Germany, it was like crazy, like wow,
we just like patched the family up in Germany from
like this episode of television, Like that's insane to like
be just a part of it, which then make me,
(18:24):
you know, took everything just more seriously and kind of
felt that weight of like, Okay, like I'm representing like
a lot of you know, people that don't feel seen
and heard, which is like the whole point of the show, right,
But it was so weird about that, yeah, I mean yeah,
but so it was like I never had that conversation.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
There's never like that, you.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
Know, that Ryan sit down or like this is what
we're gonna do, like let's talk about it, or let's
talk about what people are like feeling about it, and
like I would try, but like not you know, no,
not much of a like a response.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
And I was like it was and to this day,
it's like it's so it is weird.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
It's like that the josh Usman thing of I don't
know if you guys remember like Life of Pie, but
like there's that whole like relationship he has, you know,
I think the lions, like Richard Parker or something, and
he just like wants that lions like look back and
acknowledge him, but like he just kind of goes.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Off into the woods. And I was like, I'm like
that's like Glee.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
I was like, like, no, there was never anyone that
was like, hey, like we did it, like good job
on the storyline, like you know, its just kind of
like it just kind of ended, and I was like
did that?
Speaker 4 (19:19):
Did that just happen?
Speaker 8 (19:20):
Like wow that it's like still like waiting for like
that like closure, and it is and it is weird,
but like you know, and I understand what you got
talking about too, because I've been on the other side
where I've been like the bigger part of shows and
it's like.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
Yeah, you're just you know, you kind of bond more
like all the time.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
Together, and it's like the guest stars are great and awesome,
but like you just don't.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
It's like it's like you know, like in high school,
where like.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
You know, you could all go to the same school,
but like unless you're like you have like that one
you know, night of partying where like some truth and
some tears.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Coming here, you have like that bond.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
You talk about it the next day and it's like,
oh cool, like he's in my science class, but like,
you know, we're not.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
We're just not like that.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
So I always understood like the backing order, you know,
like where it was, but yeah, weird that like the
outside world was like he's Onlee, like your Lee cast
member been like doing it. I was like, but like
am I kind of like straddling like the fence of
like when will I be back?
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Will I be back?
Speaker 5 (20:14):
Like?
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Am I going back to the breadlines?
Speaker 5 (20:16):
Like it was a very weird like you know, like
aye unstable kind of six years, but also like most
exciting and rewarding. So yeah, still trying to deal with that,
you know totally.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
I mean, yeah, it's such a big storyline, even after
that initial kiss from you know, the big episode where
you attempt suicide. I mean it's such a massive undertaking.
I'm curious like what that was like when you read
that script. Did you know you were coming? Did you
know that was coming? Did Ryan drop any nuggets and
like what the response was or did you feel like
(20:53):
did it shift at that point or what?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (20:58):
I guess I kind of like solidify, I made my
place like in you know, in the show, but also
like I was again excited about it because working with
my coach, it was kind of like this guy's and
you know, a small town uh worried about his sexuality
getting out there like his dad, you know, society, Like
in reality, he would probably think about suicide. But I
(21:20):
was like, they would never do this on like a
Fox musical comic in.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
A way, there'll be some kind of hout.
Speaker 5 (21:26):
So when that actually came to me, you know, the script,
I was like, oh my gosh. It was like it
was really thank you to the writers for like doing
this character justice and like showing what could happen to
someone in that situation and in that position, and like
you know, like let's let's be real about it and
like let's really you know again, touch lives and like
save some hearts, you know, and change people's minds and
open up people's eyes.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
And it was a brutal episode to film.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
Like I was in a very you know, dark space,
because you really I had like understand like what would
lead someone to commit suicide and like just like the
hopelessness and like the not having anyone to turn to
and just like being like at like the literal like
you know, end of your rope.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
And like, you know, just it's dark. And I remember
sitting like on a.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
Golf cart with Brad Beeker like right outside the studio
for like I don't like an hour, and he was
telling me like these really vulnerable things about like you know,
his life and his mindset and just like where he's been.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
And I was like confessing stuff.
Speaker 5 (22:17):
To him, but like like when my mom passed, and
it was like this very like emotional like talk that
put me in a great space to like go in
and and then film and then again I knew I'm
like representing people because at this time this was where
like Fox started like kind of sending me to like, uh, doctor.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Phil or like Access Hollywood or Doctor Drew.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
Like I was like out there like talking about teen
suicides and cyber bullying because if you remember, this was
like Twitter was huge then still, but like this was
like the forefront of like when Anderson, Cooper and Ellen
like everyone was talking about cyber bullying and teen suicides
and I was like, this is crazy that I'm like
playing this role at this time in the world, like
this might not ever happen again. So yeah, it was huge,
(22:57):
And the biggest reward of that was I remember were
like at the end, it was like the Trevor Project.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Kind of flash.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Their hotline at the end of the episode was like,
you know, if you need to help and you're dealing
with stuff, and then I think that I don't know,
the stats are out there somewhere, but it was like
the calls went up like through the roof, Like it
was the highest percentage of people that ever reached out to.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
The hotline for help, like minutes after that episode.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
And so again, to like to be a part of
that was just like, uh, you know, incredibly rewarding and
uh you.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Know, yeah, how lovely it was. I mean, you never
been kissed in that episode. You had Brad Peeker at
the helm both times, just like the most thoughtful generous person.
Was that helpful because he was there for because he
was there for like the advent of Krofsky's real journey,
(23:48):
having him sort of be a through line because like
the Dante's and Ryan's were you know, doing other things, Beeker,
you know, was there and because he was editing the
show the whole time, really knew every all the characters,
so so well, like, did you find that as an
actor helpful to have him be able to connect those
(24:08):
thoughts for you?
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Incredibly?
Speaker 5 (24:10):
I absolutely love working with him and I told him.
I told him that too, because I never been kissed.
I found I found it was. I think it was
the first time I'd ever worked with like a director
who was an editor really.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
And that was his first episode for US. Oh I'm directing.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
Yeah, well I never would have known.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
It's incredible and we were definitely bonded in that episode.
And what I loved about it was like, I don't know,
there must have been like twenty something takes for like
like the locker room scene, you know, they all the
different coverage, but like it was so fun because he
would like come out like I came in from like
one door and Chris came in from like another door.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
And I remember Brad would go back and forth in.
Speaker 5 (24:45):
Between the takes and he would like kind of whisper
something to Chris to change up his performance in a
certain way, bring something, hear something new. Then he would
come to me and he was like what if what
if I you know, you go you go to Chris
and like you know, you do this and that kind
of thing. And I was like, okay, great, And it
was just his freedom to like let's just try that
because like we'll have twenty more takes, like let's just
like throw everything out there. And it was like such
(25:07):
an amazing like like good, like everything I was thinking about,
everything he was thinking about, Like let's just throw it
all out there and like keep it fresh and keep
it new and kind of like surprise for you know,
slam the locker this time, like punch this, you know,
come out.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
It was like try the second kiss. It was like,
let's just.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
Try everything that I'm feeling and like not hold back
or worry about getting it like right as far as
like correct, but like right like just from the heart.
So that was like amazing and I was like, God,
I always want to work with Brad again. And uh
it was yeah, incredible the way it came out. And
then the same thing you know with the suicide episode,
there was just on my way. There was just that
trust already like built in, and it was just kind
(25:43):
of like look like you know, I don't know how
many tears you can get out of me, but like
I'm just like let's just just like you know, like
when I open this laptop and like I see like
the comments like let's just like you know, stay on
me first, like give me this chance, like do that
do this? Like okay, cool coming to get you know
this angle and like you know this and that it
was like it was just really great working with him
and just you know, like understanding the vibe like that
last time you're getting dressed, like like am I really
(26:05):
going to do this?
Speaker 4 (26:07):
The fear the release.
Speaker 5 (26:11):
I remember how like carefully he treated that whole, like
where I walked through the locker room and see uh
fag written on the locker and just like you know,
he was like it's gonna be like in slow motion,
like I just want to see like you know, like
your life kind of like leave your body. And again
the way he like shot and like pushed in then
like q cough syrup.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
I was like, oh my gosh, like it's pretty powerful.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
I'm like I'm like the guy, but I'm like I
was like getting emotional watching it, and I was like shit,
like he did a really good job. And then me
and Brad like together we got we got invited to
like go to Sacramento for a couple of years and
like be a part of this great program called Directing
Change because of that episode, and it was all it
was like all these high school students were making short
films about mental health awareness and like you know, stigmas
(26:54):
and suicide prevention, and me and Brad were there to
like spe I represent, you know, and like be either
speak to the kids and judge the videos. Like again,
it kind of became this like all right, like now
we're we're out there in the real world.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
Like talking about these issues from the storyline.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
So it really did take on you know, like a
pretty serious part of my life, like understand what I
was talking about and talking to real kids going through it,
and it was like, all right, this is more than
just like memorizing lines and you know, showing up so
again you know, awards and you know ratings, and it
was like such a crazy crazy time is.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
As you know, yeah, yeah, for sure, it is crazy
to think about. You mentioned this a couple of minutes ago.
How when the show came out and it started to
do well, we became very conscious of, oh, you know,
(27:46):
X number of people are going to see what we're
doing right now, Like we having that I don't know
ability when we did the first thirteen episodes, don't have
seen anything except the pilot, but knowing that you're doing
these really serious things and then being able to like
in three weeks as it was like a three week turnaround,
(28:09):
did you in those three weeks sort of thing. Did
you ever get scared or nervous? Especially with every time
you were on screen you had some really heavy shit
like you weren't you weren't there, We were clowns a
lot of the time. You you were really handling tough
issues and so like for us, like I'm excited for
(28:31):
my parents to see this musical number we're doing. This
is fun, you know, like I get out of my
chair to dance. You are acting through some really tough things.
Was did you ever have you know, I got scared
for people to see some things like that flux of
feelings of is this gonna work? Did we do this correctly?
(28:52):
Because you're you're talking about suicide, You're talking about a
bully kissing the person he's bullying. Yeah, what was going
through your head? Because knowing that like fifteen million people
were going to see this in three weeks as you
were shooting it.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
Excitement like there was there was, There was no fear,
And it was actually interesting because I mean, you know,
I moved out here in LA when I was eighteen,
right after high school and kind of like didn't do
the college thing, and it's like a risky thing.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
I was like, well, I'm doing like senior recital, like singing, and.
Speaker 5 (29:18):
It's like everyone's like I'm going to you know, Brown
and Carnegie, Mellon and Emerson, and I'm like, I'm just
gonna go to La and see what happened.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Like I don't know. Don't laugh at me, you know.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
But as I got better make it, it was like there
was no plan B. So yeah, to be on like
a dream show with a dream creator, knowing people are
watching it, and all my high school friends were watching it,
and like you know, all the texts and calls every week,
and like it.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Just felt incredible.
Speaker 5 (29:42):
I had like a big, a big support base from
family and friends and actually I don't even know if
you guys even knew.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
It was so crazy. There was there was jen you know.
Speaker 5 (29:51):
My wife had gone to like study theater in London
with this guy Jeremy o'keef who ended up being a
casting director who I like overheard while I was working
at a restaurant talking about how he also like bartends
at a bar called Silver Spoon, which is like on
Santa Monica Boulevard, and like they had this back room
that they would have glee nights and like they had
TVs where everyone would come. It was I think it
(30:13):
was a gay bar, and it was like, you know,
they'd joke Lee and have drinks and Lee straws.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
There was the whole thing.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
And so like I was like, you know, like I'm
actually on that show. Do you want some more lemonade?
But like I was like I am like a bunch
of episodes and he's like, come on buy and so
like I remember like it started becoming a thing.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Like I would go with like.
Speaker 5 (30:30):
Twenty friends and we'd all like watch the episode and like,
you know, I have some drinks and like it was.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
A it was a big deal. It was really exciting.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
And but I remember when I got Never Been Kissed
the script and there were people like on the you
know crew uh other you know, there's people there's guys
that were like is your dad gonna be cool with this?
Like what what is he going to say? You're kissing
a dude like on National TV?
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Like what do you what are you gonna do? Like
use it like a liver protector or something.
Speaker 5 (30:59):
I was like like no, Like I didn't even like
think about that until I was like asked confronted with that,
because I was like no, like what like I'm an actor,
and like you kiss like as a kiss and like
lips or lips, and like the storyline is the storyline?
Speaker 4 (31:14):
Like I don't, I don't. I didn't really think about
like that element of it.
Speaker 5 (31:18):
I just thought about like the character of you know,
like what's coming like that, you know, the instinct of
like why he's been doing what he's been doing for
a year and like this release and.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Honestly kind of reminded me a little bit Huh you.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Took it so seriously like you care? I did, Yeah,
but you're right.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
So it almost felt like I was shooting a different show.
Speaker 5 (31:36):
It was like it was like a very It was
like a different tone, and I was like, this is
crazy that they're putting this in this episode.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
But like we always say, it's like the hurt and
the bird and like the heavy like and the heart
of the show and then you've got like the clowns.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
That was work. It was beautiful.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
It was like through through the circus of that was
like you have like that little dose of like hey,
let me like found you in the heart with this.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
You know, it worked, but it really.
Speaker 5 (32:03):
It reminded me like of you know that American beauty
scene where like Chris Cooper kind of goes and like
kisses Kevin Spacey in the garage and I remember that scene.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
You know, rattles me still, and I was like that
was powerful.
Speaker 5 (32:15):
So was like, okay, we can come, you know, anywhere
close to like capturing that feeling of just like the
release of what this guy must be feeling, like wondering
what it feels like to kiss a guy, you know,
after sixteen years, you know whatever, it is.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Like, let's show that release.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
And then yeah, and then I found out you know,
Ryan knew people like that in high school, and I
think Brad Salchak has a friend named Dave Kurowski and
he started messaging me on Facebook.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
So I.
Speaker 5 (32:44):
And like not at all like the character, just like
you know, but anyway, yeah, it was. It was very rewarding,
and I was very excited to do that storyline and
really never had It was actually weird, was like more
negative before Crosskey kind of exposed as like what his
deal is. There's more negative, like comments on the street
like you know, I leave Kurtlotop, you know, and then
(33:08):
it was it became like thank you, Like, oh my gosh,
I agree, like thank you.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
I feel seeing it or whatever, and I was like, whoa,
this is like, this is a different it's a very
crazy ride.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Speaking of a crazy ride, your storylines get even crazier.
Oh yeah, yeah, we were doing some research because I
have no memory of this, but please.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
We don't remember seasons season five and six.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Yeah, tell me about you and your new lover Blade.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Well, someone tweeted me a couple of weeks ago, or
they tweeted and like, this is what I knew. Glee
became off the rails and it was when Krofsky and
Blaine started dating. And I retweeted it and said, this
happened because I have no no offense to you or anybody.
I don't even know what happened with me. I don't
(34:01):
know anything.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
I don't even know.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I don't know where we were at that time, No,
I don't.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah, it was it was a long time time.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
Along for the ride.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
Yeah, it was a long time ago. It was a
long time in it was. It was we were in
this this cyclone blur, you know, it was.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
It was wild.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Uh yeah, how do you tell us about that experience?
What happened?
Speaker 4 (34:19):
I mean again a blur?
Speaker 5 (34:20):
At that point, I was like, all right, I've done,
you know, I've done what I'm gonna do, like the
serious stuff for this character that's gonna make an impact.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Like has has stopped.
Speaker 5 (34:31):
Then the show has changed, the world's changed, We've all
gone through some things. But again, just like happy to
be along for the ride, happy to be a part
of the show, happy to keep seeing you guys and
putting on the jacket, happy to you know, have an
income and be working, and really just it was fun
at that point.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
It was kind of like you know, there was there
was so.
Speaker 5 (34:51):
Much pressure on those earlier episodes where I was like
sitting in my like you guys would like be having
like fun and like you know, the base camp and
I was like.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
In my trailer like doing like breathing exercises. Just I
was back.
Speaker 5 (35:01):
I had one shot to like nail this and like,
you know, represent hundreds of thousands of.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Peopce assholes are singing Lady Gaga and I.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Wish I was through Lady Gaga.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
But no, there's like a freedom in that of like
you know, you all have like each other and having fun.
And I was like I like, shoot, like it's this
is like on me, and like I better nail it
or like I'm not asked back. So there was a
very big like pressure until season six and I was
like all right, cool, Like I'm walking in there's a
bear cub. There's like Jane Lynch telling me me and
Darren are related with a family tree at a restaurant,
(35:34):
like I don't know, but like love Darren, Like Darren
and I hit it off at that first episode, never
been kissed, we like bonded, and you know we're we're
still close, and so like I was like this is insane,
but like, hey, I get to work with you. I
get to work with my buddies and work with you
and Chris and and you know, cool directors and have
a good time.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
And it was fun just to be a part.
Speaker 5 (35:52):
Of it without the weight of you know, like the
pressure of what it was at that point. And also
though really, you know, I think a nice happy ending
that like it didn't result into his side and like
he is okay to be out in the world and
be happy and date and go do line dancing at
gay bars and uh, you know, be out there and
(36:13):
and kind of like gives give people hope, like there
is you know, there is a life, and there is
a world that like will accept you and there are
you know, people will understand you and kind of feel
free to reach out to people and try new things.
And so I was appreciative of that and that like
it didn't end in a tragic way.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
But yeah, so I just I just had fun. But yeah,
it was. It was a weird. It was a weird thing.
I me and Blaine dated. Uh.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I tried to date of Datum too, so don't worry.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Yeah, Tina tried to date Blaine too, So it's fine.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
We all tried.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
We all tried.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
Sure, yeah, yeah try why not, you know, but it
was it was a good time.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Before we wrap this up, Max, I'm curious. We ask everybody,
like what is the feeling that leaves you.
Speaker 5 (36:56):
With honestly, like longing it's kind of sad, but I
do I think it was a great It was a
great time in in my life. Like it was like
a you know, a huge hit show and all the
perks that come with all the all the you know,
all the stuff, the award shows and the restaurants and
the fun, you know, the life that comes with it
and like being seen, you know for your work and uh,
(37:17):
and yeah, I don't know, you know, who knows if
something like that, Well it was like lightning in a bottle,
so who knows if or when it will come again.
And also you know, Jenna, you know, you know, I'm parent,
you know, everything's different now, like you know, marriage and kids,
and it's like that, I can't believe, like that happened
when we were like in our twenties and like footloose
and fancy free, like you know what a time like
that again, Like it's it won't really be the same,
(37:39):
Like that was very cool, and you know with all
those people like the same age like going through it.
So yeah, like I I miss it, and I really
do look upon those times very fondly because I don't
think I was like in the trenches or the drama
as much as you know, you guys obviously were, so.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Uh, it's kind of all all good for me and
I I I miss it.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
That's awesome. Well, we we're grateful to have you.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
We've been watching the show again obviously with this podcast
and like as a viewer versus like you know, an
actor in the show, and it's just really it's really
different and profound and a beautiful, like more positive lightweight
and we get to see the work that you put
in and then talk to you about how serious you
(38:26):
really did take your role and as an actor, and
you're you know, just approached Krofski and and it really
paid off. And so we're really grateful for you and
your time on the show and what you shared with
everybody and then coming on and hanging out.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
With this again and just your friendship.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
So thanks Max, Well, thank you, feelings mutual. Thank you
for everything you guys did on the show.
Speaker 7 (38:49):
Pretty cool, you know, thank you very very thanks for
having congrat podcast, and thank you.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Out of the family.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Thanks. I'm sure we're gonna have to voice you. I'm
sure a lot more as.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
We do y question memories and things, and we'll voice you.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
Bring I'll I'll be standing by.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Awesome, Thanks so much. Is so good to see you.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
So good to see you. Thanks guys, take care Bye.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Did you know David Truma quit TV right before he
got Friends.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
He quit and went back to Chicago to do theater,
and Marta Coffman and all the creators friends were like,
but we wrote this with you and Mi with Ross,
so you have to come back and do it. And
he is like, and they're like, he had a bad
experience on another TV show. I can't remember which one
it was. And he's like, never again, I'm not doing
TV ever again and the like we promised it will
(39:43):
be different.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Just come back and he's like, all right, well, if
you're write for me, I'll come back. There's there's friends.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Well see what happens when you're good like Max is
just good. Yeah, Like we had no idea he had
all that like formal that's right. Training.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Well, thanks Max coming on and thanks for listening with us,
and hope your.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Sweet man keep it up. Sweet, you're so talented.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Can't wait to see you on the next.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
You know, we need to get into that. We have
to have him back. We have so many more questions
for everyone.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, we'll have him for the next big Crafts gift.
So great, that's what you really missed.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
See ya. Thanks for listening and follow us on Instagram
at and that's what you really miss pod. Make sure
to write us a review and leave us five stars.
See you next time.
Host
Jenna Ushkowitz
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