December 11, 2025 • 50 mins
We’re off to see the director! "Wicked: For Good" Director Jon M. Chu joins Jenna and Kevin with great behind-the-scenes stories about Wicked, including the choice to have his leads sing live and how he pulled it off, a fowl problem on the set, the challenges of advertising a musical, and what he would be doing if he weren't a successful director! Plus, Jon on meeting Jenna and Kevin for the very first time on the set of "Glee," and an update on the "Crazy Rich Asians" musical!
For fun, exclusive content, and behind-the-scenes clips, follow us on Instagram @andthatswhatyoureallymissedpod & TikTok @thatswhatyoureallymissed!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
And That's what You Really Missed with Jenna.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And Kevin An iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to and That's what You Really miss Podcast. It's
a very exciting day. We have an old friend here
who's maybe one of the biggest stars of Hollywood right now. John,
I'm true.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
John is just a great guy. He's just a good,
good person person and I'm so happy we get to
chat with him. And I think you will. How he
is when we talk to him now is how he
is all the time. Yes, the difference, there's no ego.
There's just the love for the craft exactly, love for
(00:52):
his friends, love for his coworkers, love for story and
what he's doing, and family and that goes into every
single thing he does. Also, forgot he was around us
during Glee.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Oh yeah, my way I think my way in was
like he was doing were like he's doing the Justin
Bieber like movie, which was one of the first of
those movies, right and he did it the best. And
he was just around us and I remember him with
Harry and you and everybody, and he's just the fact
(01:26):
and like his memories of Glee also are so sweet
and just like watching us and seeing us so like,
I'm I'm still astounded, and he remembers that, but that
was such a you know, and.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
One breath I am and one breath I'm not because
that's the sum No, I know exactly. Well.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I hope you guys enjoyed this conversation with John. Yeah,
that's all I have to say.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yes, strap In, this is John. I'm chu director of
Wicked and Wicked for Good. Where are you right now?
Speaker 4 (01:57):
I am in New York City? Oh same, Yeah, I
know it's crazy because I was here only for Crazy.
Wh Change is the musical. So we have a twenty
nine hour read, which I've never done because I've never
directed a skill before.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
So it's a wild that's so exciting.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Wow, we have a whole cast of people. It's been
like today we do like a run through of it
and it's gonna be really fun.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Why do I sneak into that? That is incredible.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Wow, that's really cool. It's good to see you.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yes, thanks for doing.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
This great, thank you. It's been I've waited a long
time to do this. Guys watched I've listened.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Oh John, Oh my god, the business man at the
moment your podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
How are you doing? Like how do you feel mentally
physically through all of this, Like do you.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
I feel, you know, exhausted. But as I saw in
some TikTok inspirational video, how blessed are we to be
exhausted for the work that we dreamed of since we
begged the universe for it since we were kids. Yeah,
I'm like, thank god we get to tell stories. Yeah,
and I got five kids, that's crazy. I gave year old,
(03:17):
six year old, four year old, two year old, and
one year old. And so the exhaustion is like beautiful,
Like you know how it is, Jenna, Like it's just
you watch someone discover the world every day. Yeah, it's
a cynical and annoyed. It can annoying sometimes it can be.
It can be like my little boys doing this poking
thing where he just like pokes you instead of like
(03:38):
holds your hand. And my wife's like, how do I
tell him?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Like it's really really annoying.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Like give him options, maybe say my head instead. I
don't know, And then I try to do it like, oh,
that's a great idea, John, let me just try to
do that, and he was like, nah, no, that's my
life basically.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yes, when I think about like how are you or
anyone in your position. You have young kids, you're also
juggling a billion work things and also trying to like
because you work in a creative field, so like, how
do you keep your creative And I was like, you
know what, whenever I want something done, like I know,
Jenna is like the best person to call, or like
(04:16):
anybody with kids because either awake already. Yeah, but also
you have to be organized. You have to know how
to like still as much little free time you have
with whatever you want to be doing.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It's like Christian as possible.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Yes, yeah, you just roll with it. You just roll
with it, you go, you have solutions as quickly as possible.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Probably what makes you such a good director. You're like,
here's three options for you instead of the one.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
Yeah, I couldn't tell what which which came first. Now
it's all blurred. But I'm pretty sure that directing helped
my parenting. My parenting actually helped my my directing more
because I think I think being a parent is really
creative and I think that it actually set rates. Like
I used to get stressed because I used to think
about the movie or the project when I went home.
(05:05):
When I'm sleeping when I get up and it's like
that's that's actually more exhausting, and that actually is a problem.
But when I when you come home and you got
to change a diaper, you gotta like calm a fight
down or something. You leave all that stuff gone and
you're still I mean, you can still jump back in,
but but yeah, there's a separation and your brain gets
to rest. And I think that that's amazing and I'm
(05:27):
more creative than ever for sure. Oh wow, that's great,
And to share this journey is insane. I can say, hey,
see these drawings, like now, these are going to become
real things. And then my kids come to the set
and they're like, oh now and feel the fabric, look
at the things. And then you go and you and you.
They go to school and now their friends have t
shirts of the drawing that they saw back in the
day and they were there, they were actually on the
(05:49):
yellow brick road. I think, I don't know how that
really messes with their head, but I think you dream
and it happens, and that's a natural thing of the world.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
And actually, as a kid, when our imaginations are so
explosive and everything is an opportunity to use your imagination
when you're a kid. Also as an adult, boat we
have to remind ourselves of that. I think, yeah, and yeah,
that has to be such a crazy thing because most
of us are like, you know, using like cardboard boxes
and like sheets that we found to build costumes and like,
(06:22):
at least I was like building sets and things in
my house. And then they actually get to walk on
like people at the top of their craft doing like
the biggest thing possible.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Well, you know, as a as a kid, myself and
we would go to see shows, musicals, opera, ballets, whatever
it was, watching movies. You know, when you don't know
much about the business. You also don't the only access
point you have is like the acting side of it.
So you're in musical theater, you do all this stuff,
and then later you learn, oh, there's like a whole
other side. Yeah, like do this thing called directing. And
(06:57):
my kids definitely know like, oh there's like directing, there's
like in front and behind the camera. They understand what
all the things are, at least the concepts of and
so I think that's really interesting. We'll see how that affects.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Someone actually the producer, Okay, exactly. I love to tell
you speaking of little kids, I'm curious to hear, like
I just I can imagine somebody who studied the craft
and you know study, you know, production and TV in
school and all of these things, and just was immersed
(07:28):
in it as a kid. Like what would that John
say about John? Now, like did you manifest this?
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Did you know? Or were you like would he be
like shell shocked?
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Well, I have the weird answer and probably the more
realistic answer.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Well, give us the weird one.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
The weird answer is, yeah, I knew. I feel like
I've already lived this life, and I felt like I've
seen all of this before and I was on a
journey and I had to stick to it. And that's
that's what I made myself. Whether it's real or not,
I don't know, but I really believed it. Since I
was probably nine years old, I did see this life
and in a weird way, did it make me sort
(08:12):
of just know that like whatever path I'm on, it
felt like a book that I was just on certain
chapters on and once I get through this chapter is
actually the next good part. And then I would tell
myself this. So again, whether it's true or not, I
don't know. But I sort of made myself believe that
that that's how I was going to survive all of this.
So every bad moment was I knew, oh no, don't worry,
(08:36):
You'll be fine. And for some reason, for some I
know that's not that doesn't necessarily work, but for some reason,
I did keep going, and I because of that, I
did get here to this point. But I don't think
that that's like a philosophy of life. I don't know,
but that's that's what I think now. The reality of
it all, I think, deep down, I don't believe I'm
(08:59):
any of this, and that I have to work really
hard to catch up to the image or what people
think or what my even my movies sort of present
to the world. So I'm always but I like to
try to live up to that. So I'm always chasing,
(09:20):
chasing this thing.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I feel like that's probably that sounds healthy, both of those,
like the balance of both of those. Like if you
had one of that the other night, I would be
worried about you. But because you have both, in my
professional opinion, because I will.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Be hungry, right like it keeps hungry if something's chasing
me and I'm chasing something and something's chasing me, and
I think that's an okay balance. I've never felt so
chased that I'm just scared. But I will say that
the thing that I think is the difference for me,
and sometimes I feel shame about it, is that my
(09:59):
entry point into movie making. I grew up loving movies,
watching movies, all those things, but my entry point was
making actually making movies because I was given a camera
and I was started to make stuff before I knew
even my full love of cinema. I was just it
was a process of making and I fell in love
with the shooting. I fell in love with the editing.
(10:19):
I fell in love with delivery, showing sharing to me
that I just knew that I was going to do
that for the rest of my life, whether whether I
was going to get paid for it or not. If
I wasn't getting paid by a studio, I'd be making
wedding videos and bar mits videos the way I did
in high school. Like I get just as much enjoyment
of videoing my children and videoing someone's wedding than making wicked.
(10:42):
To be honest, like there is something the process is
what I love at any scale. It is what I'm
addicted to, and so I guess maybe that's there's a
calmness to that that win or lose. I still got
my camera and I still got my editing and knowing
about that. So I don't know, maybe that's the that's
the part that I lean on often and and I
(11:05):
get embarrassed with that sometimes because some people want me
to be so in love with cinema that I know
every director and every shot and everything, and or they
want to know what's your dream job, like what's the
movie that you're ultimately going to make? And I'm like,
I just I'm not that person. Wicked is probably the
closest thing to that dream like image. But I but
(11:27):
I am. I. I like to exercise this tool and
I love to find new things. I love to reflect
what I'm going through in my life through it, and
I love to discover my life through it.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
So wow, Yeah, I mean that sounds like something we
all can learn from, though, especially in the entertainment business.
So forget the shame, John, because I mean the process,
the experience of it, of why we actually love it.
I think so often like we can bear ourselves down
in like comparison, compare ourselves to others or going for oh,
(12:00):
I want my movie to look like this other movie
that was done by being able to actually like have
the tangible thing of being on a set or at
a wedding or whatever it is and actually doing it.
If that's if that's your way in like that sounds
like a really sort of wonderful thing to be able
to fall back on.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Yeah, I think I appreciate. I think I love the
collaboration as well, learning new ways to figure out how
to get better collaboration or get access to those things
while also having my vision. I think I love the
technical part of like how do you communicate and finding
finding the right words.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, we talked to Chris Scott, who we love, saying
I love and sweet man, I feel like you're like
Oprah and I'm alhamas I was Oprah Oprah because and
(13:04):
I swear this goes back to collaboration, because the whole joke,
like I have some of my friends like we all
want to be the Oprah where like if one comes up,
everybody comes up. And I feel like you have done
that in so much of your collaboration and in your
friendship and there's a lot of overlap there and someone
like Chris Scott, who choreographed Wicked and for Good and
(13:28):
The Heights, all these things, someone you've known. We've all
known each other for so long.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Long, long time now, and it's but.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
It's really beautiful to see and as we've all sort
of grown up in this business where loyalty and friendship
often play second fiddle to like, you know, yeah, getting
a step ahead or like whatever it may be, and
building collaboration and building teams especially, I think something for
(13:58):
like these Wicked films where it's a gigantic team, where
do you start? And like how in that process of
building the collaboration is Chris Scott front of mine? Because
this is someone you have and you have a dialogue
with friendship and working dialogue with, like how how does.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
That work well? First of all, even just to give
your audience some context for us, we were babies when
we all met, and you were even more babies when
you guys became superstars. So it's kind of crazy that
it was on the Paramount lot. I think lot some
of us met me and Kevin maybe we met right
(14:38):
before that at Adam Savanni's house or something like, Yeah,
I played Moose and step up to the Street, which
was my first first movie. And then all my friends
Harry Shum got onto this show called Glee, this pilot
that everyone was on. Danny my ad for my first
(14:58):
movie was also the eight There and Zach and all
these people. And suddenly and I was editing g I Joe,
Oh no, maybe I was editing Justin Bieber never Yes
on the lot, on the Paramount lot, and they are
these group of crazy kids running around shooting, shooting a show.
(15:21):
I was like, what is going on? And then it
becomes this massive hit. Of course I watched it on
that what was at a Super Bowl Sunday the PHO,
watched everybody wait for the whole summer for this show
to come out. It was just so I will never
forget the joy and the excitement of this new show
with these new this new generation of people that were
(15:43):
going to show us how musical theaters have done. And
I was I just I always think, to me, watching
that become so mainstream and so beloved showed me that
this was like that it was still in our blood here. Yeah,
like have joy and root for each other and be
(16:04):
silly and funny all the things and be serious about
real things. That the combination was so cool. And then
to watch you guys grow as people and have your
own families and the things, and and it was just
it's just been like, really, when you talk about people,
I think about that a lot. Gus we're supportive of
each other and they're for each other. And and I
(16:26):
watched just from the other side of the door, you
guys do all that. I love that a lot of
those people are part of my family too.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Likewise, like I mean, we I think we met during
the Adam and Miley like dance battle. Yeah, we had
a YouTube dance YouTube dance because I was really close
with Adam's brother v. We're in a boy band together
and a great band. Oh yeah, And so I met
you through you filming dance, do you know what I mean?
(16:57):
Like to me, your storytelling has always been like music driven. Yeah,
And so like on the flip side, we've all gotten
to watch you like go from project to project and
see your growth and see your family grow, and it's
been like this wonderful, like beautiful experience and also something
for all of us to be so proud of where
(17:17):
it feels like like one of us, you know. And yeah,
also because like you're just I know, people see you
and you're like, he's this big, huge director, which you are,
but also you're just like the kindest, like normal, approachable human,
which I also think is really just lovely to see.
(17:37):
And I think you also see that reflected in like
the crazy media press tours of it all how which
also goes back to you know, my original question about
like collaboration. Because you're at the top, you set the
tone for everything, and just knowing you as a human,
it makes so much sense to me of why everybody
(17:58):
feels this way. Yeah, sort of under your stewardship. But
you know, I've never been and I I haven't directed
a huge studio films, and so I know things start
at the top and you hope they trickle down, but
I'm not sure what the intentional or not that process.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
It's yeah, it's intentional. Yes, it's intentional because in order
from what I found is that I work best when
there isn't people trying to crowd the court. I've discovered
through all these years that when everybody when there's when
someone who takes like the oxygen out of the room
(18:34):
in a bad way or an ego way, or distrustful way.
I don't. I can't step in like I don't have
like I don't think it's worth it. I'm like, I
have my ideas, and I hope people like want these ideas,
and I'm going to go give it to you. And
I work best when when I have an environment of
people like John, what do you What do you have
to say? Like, let's open up the court for you
(18:56):
and go run. It's like Forrest Gump, like just go John,
and I can do that. But when people are blocking
and they don't, they're taking the space. I don't take
the space. So I've just learned to like And doesn't
mean I find people that don't say anything or something.
I find people who don't feel threatened by hearing other
ideas but also have a vision and who are not pushovers,
(19:19):
because I don't like someone who just floats anyway. I
want you don't want a yes man. I don't want
a yes man. I want people who love what they do.
That's probably the number one thing that you love what
you do. You'd willing to stay up four in the
morning or get up at four in the morning just
to do it because it's your life's dream. And we
get to do this and you recognize that this is
(19:40):
it that we have in our life, because that also
makes feels my passion because I love what we get
to do. And so I start there like who we
bring in got to be the best of the best.
There's no compromise of that. But you also have to
love it. It can't be some other obsession. It has
to be this. And then we start communicating at our
(20:02):
currency level. So I when I meet someone or I
bring them in, I need to understand that we that
we don't have to have the same currency of why
we're here, but we have to. I have to understand
that what I want or what I'm aiming for fulfills
or is in parallel or whatever cross sections your currency
(20:22):
for why you're doing it. Why do you want to
do this? What do you need from this when you
come out of this, Oh, Cynthia, you want to try
something new, put on a new thing, or go worldwide
or whatever it may be. Does that cross over with
my vision of retelling the American fairy tale and questioning that, Oh, yes,
you want to talk about it in this way, but
I want to talk about Okay, So the combination is
going to be really interesting and you are Brande. Oh
(20:44):
you've never let a movie before. Okay, I've directed people
who haven't done it. I know the difficulties of that.
I know how to protect you. But I also know
that you have to be ready for this. Can I
see those little do I? Can I see the hints
of knowing that she can be ready for this? Away
she wait ready for this. It's like old baby. Yeah,
(21:05):
and then we can work together to find that and
so anyway that that's where it starts. And and then
when we go I'm like, I love to visualize and communicate.
It's always communication. That's number one when we're making a creative, collaborative,
giant project. And so I fill rooms with with with words,
with images, with models, with videos that I'm always cutting together,
(21:27):
so everyone has as much of stuff in the digital
soup and in the physical soup as possible. So whatever
we're every and I give a lot of people freedom
to yes and everything. I tries to say no as
little as possible, just to like see where we go. Yeah,
then we can then we can really minimize and and
(21:47):
and actually like focus and have clarity on what we're
trying to say.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, yeah, Wow. When you're like planning something that is
this big, Yeah, as is bohemous. What is the I
guess maybe like the workflow for you in terms of
when you're getting what's coming up first? I guess right,
like the production design is casting is figuring out where
(22:15):
you're going to shoot this damp thing?
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Like what?
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And are all these things happening happening simultaneously or is
there like a process for you in which I need
to know this before I can do this, and I
need to know that before that.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Yeah, at a certain point, things are happening all the
same time. But but but in terms of layering, it
starts with the script. Like I get on board, they
call me, they what do you think about Wicked? I
was like, yeah, I'm down.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, so you approached about it because there's been so
many you know, like almost it's almost happened so many times. Yes, yes,
And then like ring ring, I was watching those.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
Same articles and reading those things that I actually I
actually email my my team like what's going on with Wicked? Dude?
They keep missing these dates and I want to see
that movie. And by the way, is that a sign
that they're having trouble? Because I know how to make
this movie? I know exactly what to do, Like I
knew I knew what this movie was since I first
saw it.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
What was that feeling? Like, what was the thing?
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Like?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
This is how, this is how I would do it.
I know your way into it.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
My way into what it was. It was so much
the relationship between these two women. I mean, that's obvious now,
but when I first saw it was before I was
on Broadway, and it was so clearly, like, Wow, that
is so smart that you're reinventing the American fairy tale
from the inside out through the relationship of these two women,
of bringing two very different women together and finding their
(23:39):
power together. And I'm like me being in college at
the time that I watched it, going through film school,
I under and letting go of my childhood American fairy
Tale of the Wizard of Oz and ushering in a
new idea of friendship. What happened to those friends that
you had for all those years? What happened to the
person you were all those years who you're turning into.
(24:00):
What is the new? Do you still have that optimism
or is the world actually way different than what you
thought and you're going to change because of it? Like
all those questions were happening at the same time, and
a musical form. And I was going to film school,
so I saw the shots. I saw the world of
Oz is not a dream. It's a real physical place,
and these are real relationships, and like, let's get in,
(24:23):
let's get in, like.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
To make it into your head already, Yeah, and never
thinking in a weird way more like a fan fiction
thing that would be so cool, right, yeah, but like
it's probably your subconscious over all those years.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
It's like, and the idea of a musical as the biggest,
most epic musical ever created by Hollywood, Like yeah, like
show that we still can do it and use visual
effects and sets and stunts and live singing in ways
that we can give theater to everybody, but also cinema
(24:59):
to everybody. That all of them are like one upping
each other and and as big as any and as
big a swing as any musical ever had. Yeah, to me,
like that was that was And they came to me
during COVID lockdown, So in a way, we didn't even
know if movies were going to be made anymore.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Like, are people are ever going to go back to
the movie theater?
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Yeah, go for it. John. Let's see, we think we
think musicals are dead, we think movies are dead. We're
not sure we all going to touch each other or see
each other again, but if you want to try.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
It was also that weird era like right after that,
where there are a couple like musicals that like people
weren't advertising as musicals. Yeah, you know, there's like that
whole thing where it's like what is everybody doing?
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Yeah, I do have I do have a philosophy about
that though, because we advertise musicals and so there is
an issue. There is an actual physical issue because every
time I'm like, guys, show all the music, and like
you try to do all the music because it's getting crazy.
Change is lyrics. If you try to do like like
trailers have to be so ancise. The moment you put
(26:07):
a song in, you better stick to that song a
little longer, just switch, and the moment you switch, it's
like mayhem, and then the words better be right and
they're not always in the right place. So there is
an actual technical that we never talked about because.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Let the people know, this is my soapbox.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Hey, it's way more difficult. You can put a dance
movement in something fine sure, but actually physically a person.
You know, in trailers, we're constantly cutting different things together
and different word together to give a cohesive, simplified idea
of the movie. That people get it when you have songs,
they're just not that like concise.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah, sorry, it's fair. That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
Yes, that's why, like we have we actually have a couple.
If you watch the Wicked trailer evolution, there are some
that we just were like, okay, now let's do the
version where we just do all the music and it's
like one actually I thought went really well and I
was like, that's actually awesome. But you have to have
such a talented music editor in your and that's not
(27:14):
part of the movie. This is part of a whole
nother department of market. Yeah, all these companies. Yeah, that's
someone who really understands it, and the composer has to
approve it. The original composer, Stephen Schwartz, doesn't like, sorry,
you guys, start over and you just spent six weeks
so Steven anyway, it's a.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Lot, guys, every piece, every piece is that The.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Thing about a musical is that people don't realize the
technical how technical it really is. Because if you're doing
the musical right, it's supposed to look really easy. It's
supposed to never look sweaty, almost not be a musical
at all. You just feel it, every ounce of it,
every rhythm, every can ruin it, every sound effect. How
(28:02):
much folly do you hear when they close the door
and they're singing the song, or do you not do
that at all? And every filmmaker has their own philosophy
about that. You guys on the show had a philosophy
at how sound and music should play together or how
reality and those things relat together. And every filmmaker has
to make that choice, if they even know they had
to make that choice. Some people who are starting a
musical have never made a musical. Suddenly you're in it
(28:23):
and you're like, oh that, there's not like a rule.
You're like, no, it's like, how what do you go?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
It's a taste. It's a taste level thing.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Yes, and sometimes it takes you a whole movie to
figure out what your taste or what your strategy is
with this, and that by the end you're like, oh,
I'm done, i gotta do another one. And then people
don't do another one because they're too scared.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, I was actually thinking about those little things you
were saying about sound. So you and I ran into
you and Chris at the Grove when Wicked came out
last year, and I remember you ran. You ran out
of the theater because you wanted to like adjust the
sound because it was quiet. For the record, I think
the Grove has terrible sound anyway, they always have. But
(29:02):
you don't have to say that.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
I was saying, I.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Never go to that theater. That was the one time
I went to that theater because I already had tickets
with my friends. But I boycott that location anyway. But
I when I went to see it in New York
at a different AMC, and the sound was great, and
I was thinking about and no, good deed, there's so
much going on. There's so much you know, sound effects
(29:26):
and fully things happening, but you can still hear every
every instrument, Cynthia's voice coming through and like that perfect balance.
I was like, oh, I don't know what John's on,
but whatever is happening, it is all sounding correct in
my ears like it is. I'm seeing and hearing every
single thing.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, that's our mixed team is amazing,
Andy Nelson, Simon Hayes, who's recording the live, actual singing live, unreal,
and are John Marcus are mixed everybody, and we're all
in the room together, and we already because we did
in the Heights, we already have a full philosophy about
(30:07):
how much we want to hear. I want it to
feel real. I want to feel like it's emerging from
from a from a person's so it feels like dialogue,
but of course it escalates again, so and then how
much the wing flaps interrupts her lyrics or things like that.
That's but I also know how important it is to
hear those lyrics. There's one lyric in there that I
wish it was more clear, but we look went through
all the live versions and couldn't get quite the clarity,
(30:30):
and so you know, we're just eking it in. But yeah, anyway, yeah,
so it's a constant, constant tweaking there.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Obviously, you have like two of the best singers in
the world who led this with you.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yeah, I know, it's just like it's not important at all,
but no, they absolutely truly incredible, And so I know
that they've spoken about this in press where you guys
made the decision that you were going to sing live,
So was there in your mind was there any other
option before they were cast where you're like, oh, we
might have to pre record this, or were you open
(31:15):
to the pre recording or were you passionate about the
live being element being there because of you know, the
performances as it's been done before in other movie musicals.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Yeah, when we were doing In the Heights and we're
shooting here in Washington Heights, it was a beautiful experience
because I have nothing against pre records, like I love
pre records. If the intention of the scene is in
the pre record, there's a version of the pre record
that you do before you even start. That's part of
the rehearsals and part of the things. And then you
discover what you're doing, and then you should record re
(31:47):
record that. Yes, oh yeah, the money to rerecord it,
you should be doing that, yea. And I think sometimes
people don't do that, and so then you feel that separation. Yeah,
but in the Heights, we would rerecord it every few
weeks because our guys are in rehearsals, things would change
and so it stayed in parallel with us. And then
when we're on set. What we realized is there's nothing.
(32:10):
It's hard to do live because there's buses and cars
and people that don't give us here in New York
that you're shooting a musical. And yeah, so it was
really hard to do live all the time. But there
were moments where we got to do it, or when
we felt like it was clear enough and you could
you could record and see and get and possibly get
something from this. And that was an amazing experience, which
meant we have We had a pianist every day on
(32:33):
set ready to go, and we did more live than
I expected in here in Washing Heights, on the streets
and suddenly you're singing in the middle of a sidewalk
or in a subway and there's a live pianist and
your everyone's and no one can hear it, and you're
just hearing the vocals, but you could hear it in
your ears, the on your on your calms to the
pianists and her or him and I and I always
(32:55):
loved that. I felt like that's where we were getting
the juice. And so with these these ladies of course
coming in, I was like, they can do it, and
we're on sound stages essentially like we're not going.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
To a placement.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Yeah, you try it, but I don't. I don't know
how they feel. They may want their their vocals super pristine,
and we're just gonna have to do what we did
and in the heights where we just keep re recording
until we find the right one and maybe even after
once we shot the scene, we recorded again. So that
was the technique we began with record the pre records
(33:25):
when they first arrived because I wanted They had never
gone through Wicked School with Stephen Schwartz and Steven Arimas,
so I go through Wicked School. Just just do it.
Just get to know them. I we will. We have
not even had rehearsals yet, so then you come to
me and then we'll discover the character. So just take
it as like a physical, uh, muscle memory exercise. And
they did that with Stephen and Stephen, and then they
(33:47):
also did muscle movement exercises with Chris Scott to just
get movement in and so he could assess what they
can or cannot do. He's getting languages from them, like
movement languages of where they're thinking. Even though none of
them have talked to me. Yet. I mean we've met,
but not really. Like then we got into a room
and we start Then me and the girls start working
on these scenes and we start to discover these characters
(34:09):
and we're like, oh, actually, yeah, Alphabet actually moves more
than we expect from the Wicked Witch to the West.
She actually has more dignity for herself than you think
in the joke of the Wicked Witch of the West.
Because since it's bringing that, okay, that means her movement
is different. So bring that to your rehearsals next time
(34:29):
and let me all come in there and make sure
he understands what we're trying to talk about here. Yeah,
and bring that into the show. Oh, Steven's trying to
push you to be have that cackle, but actually that
cackle should come from a place of joy actually, and
that it's like it's like a laugh that you're a
belly laugh. So like, rather than the iconic laugh, do
the belly laugh version, and so let me talk to Steven.
(34:49):
So we do it step by step as we build
both and so by the time we actually get to set,
we know all of it. We probably haven't re recorded
that voice, and so we were like, let's just record
it live. We have the best Simon Hayes, the best
recorder is, you know, on set for live stuff. He
did le Mis, he did all these things, so he's like,
I could do it, John. So he's hiding mics in
(35:10):
their hats, and sometimes we have mics on their skin
because there's no clothes up here, and we're just painting
those out later. So we're trying to get the clearest sound,
and sometimes that's annoying. Sometimes the girls are like I
can feel the weight, and you're like, I know, but
we're doing this live, like I need a mic somewhere,
and so we're constantly trying to figure things out, and
then you record it and you realize, oh, the live
(35:33):
version is absolutely one that's connecting. Let's just do it
the next day. Let's do it the next day. And
by the end you're like, nobody wants to do it
not live. Yeah, you always have the option. Yeah. To me,
I'm like, I never if you come in sick today,
I need you next week, don't worry about it. Yeah,
let's do it and we'll figure it out.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
So and then I remember happens, to be honest, all
the fifty something days that we shot.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Not to get too into the weeds about that, but.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Actually live they did happen a couple of days that
they got sick, but they pushed through it and it
actually helps the performance in a where you could hear
their voice.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
It's so effective. It's effective in every way that they
showed up. It just it was like the performance when
you're sick, it doesn't you know, if you're performing, it
works if you're not, like one hundred and two fevers.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
You have two people like that who are used to
live performing and probably pushing through those things.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
They know how to work around it.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Like we're not sacking insurance.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
Yeah we did one hundred and sixty shows, we did
a hundred whatever.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
I like we've been watching a lot of musicals on
this podcast lately, like different movie musicals, and I'm always
just fascinated. You don't have to go into two in
depth about this, but because you answered a lot of it.
But when you're recording the live, obviously we want the
live because there's the emotion, the rawness of it, but
the recording, like the mics you're using themselves obviously different.
(36:55):
If you're in a recording booth with that sound and
those mics that are made exactly for that, and you're
using probably like mics that are maybe made to capture dialogue.
And then you have Cynthia flying and she's singing, Like
how are you able to sort of like bridge that
gap maybe of like having a vocal, a singing vocal
that still sounds good up against music that is cinema
(37:18):
worthy and also I think you know still makes the
audience feel like you do in the theater. For example,
when she's singing define gravity and you have that emotional reaction,
which I imagine helps having the live singing because you're
in a complete crient medium. But like the technicality aspect
of recording the vocal and then mixing it afterwards to
make sure it still sounds like studio quality.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
I guess we got Simon Hayes, who's the best of
the best, and he's also like super militant about the quiet,
Like there was we be shooting in a warehouse and
like we're not warehouse of our stage and it's a
brand new stage and we have this whole jungle that
we built, so this forest and every time Cynthia would sing,
you'd hear birds in the right afters they start singing
(38:01):
because they made nests, and you're like, what the heck
is that. You're like, oh, these are birds. They only
sing when Cynthia is singing, which is wow, it's like
amazing anyway, and so Simon was like, those birds they're
on your track. We've got to get them off this track.
And so he started playing these birds of prey sounds.
He's like, to scare the birds. He's quiet, and Cynthia heard.
(38:26):
She's like, what the hell is that? And like, that's
that's We're trying to scare the birds so that they
don't go on the track. Cleinging tracks just for you.
And she's like, that will not happen, not on the sets.
Tell them, do not play those sounds. If they're on
my track, then God wants them to be on my.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Nimals do.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
It's in her and the reality is those those birds
are sometimes on her track. And that's what you can
get along. You can get away with a lot. You know,
we also have, you know, our our mixed team after
you know. I think the hardest part about directing a
musical is that director's role of pulling the thread through
(39:07):
is way more important, because a musical walks on this
fine edge of of permission to do what it does.
And I won't say cringe because I think that I
think cringe is a nasty word by pessimists who don't
want to just see joy. But I will say that
I understand the that that an audience in a cinema
(39:31):
has to agree to this, to entering this world of
the musical, and has to agree to believe in the
realities of the rules of a musical world, and that
if you cross that reality, how annoying that can be.
You have to stick with the things that you you
had set up in the first ten minutes of the movie.
(39:53):
And I think that as a director your your movie,
that line is walked by every element of your movie.
That's in the color, that's in the costume, that's in
the pacing of the editing, that's in how where you're
making cuts, that's in the sound mix of where does
the instruments feel like they come from, how the entrances
and exits of those, the transitions of that, that is
(40:14):
in the actual mix of of of of of the
urgency of things. It comes in a lot of different forms. Yeah,
own jokes, how you play jokes, is or winked to
an audience? Is there not? Or does anybody look at
the camera? Do we brave that forth? Like, these are
all things that one misstep and you're and you lose
the audience really quickly. So you have to pull that thread,
(40:36):
just just as a medium, the director has to pull
that thread from the very words on the script all
the way to the delivery of the color when you're
color timing, and the and and the coughs that you
hear in the mix, or the saliva that you hear
when they singing or or sniffles that they hear when
they're off camera and crying. That that that alone is
(40:57):
a big task for that And that's not even talking
about how you tell the story. That's just technical tone.
And I'm not even talking about technical like actually tech,
but like technical as in how you keep the how
you agree to the rules of this world. Then you
have to get into the actual storytelling of where you
pull the audience into the drama or to the comedy
(41:19):
of it. So anyway, I forget the question, but that's
great that pull through. I have to know my conversations
with Cynthia and Ariana in a office building that we
discussed a certain scene, because if I don't follow through
with that on the other end, they'll be doing stuff
that doesn't matter. But if I bring that into the
mix and say, hey, for good, is something where they're
(41:40):
actually looking at each other and speaking these things, and
so let's play it as dialogue. So let's let's minimize
that orchestration. Even though we have one hundred piece orchestra,
they have amazing stuff. I want to hear the and
you would never hear the leaves blow by, but in
that one space, let the leaves blow by. I want
to feel the space between them and have that. Let's
(42:01):
hear the rustling of the branches in there, so we
can feel the loneliness or whatever like, or feel how
high they are by the type of winds that you have.
And so I can conform that because of our conversations
way back then and anyway, when those things start to
tie together, it becomes much more cohesive experience that every
element is carrying you lyrically in this that I think
(42:23):
it is a musicality, Kevin. I know we talk a
lot about musicality because I think that's something I discovered
when working with dancers It's like there are dancers and
they do things, and some people do tricks and whatever,
but that's not dancing. To me, Like the highest bar
of dancing is someone with musicality, because musicality isn't about
what you're trained to do. It is about interpreting the music,
(42:45):
and if the music changes, your musicality better change. Otherwise
what are you doing. You're just doing a routine that
you learned. But if your dance movement changes because the
song changes, it means you're connected to that song. And
I learned to respect that so much working with dancers
that that's what I look for, number one. And in
a weird way, I look for that musicality in all
of life, whether that's an actor or a cinematographer or
(43:06):
a costume designer, that they are reacting to the fabric
of the emotion of a scene or of life. The
messiness of life is well, but they're interpreting and finding
in their medium. And to me, if I get to
bring that and connect the dots to that, like that
is the power of cinema. You get to sit back
and experience all of those things together in concert.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Somebody said that because I see that in all your work.
You've always done that and like how music has always
led your storytelling in that way, the musicality of it all.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Yeah, thank you John. Before we let you go, we
always ask people on the podcast what is the feeling
that Lee leaves you with? But since we're talking about
Wicked here, I'm going to ask you what is the
feeling that Wicked leaves you with?
Speaker 4 (43:45):
Let me answer both, okay, Because I love Glee and
I love being around you all during that time, and
there is this this this dreamy aspect of seeing you
guys walk lunch together with all the pas and the
golf car going crazy, or you guys in different costumes
(44:08):
every day, and it just to me was like this
youthful joy. And I every day I go out and
see that happening, and you guys were always so kind
to me. I was just the weird guy who's editing
a movie over there. I felt. I felt like that's
(44:29):
the dream of a creative environment that you want to
be in, that you can do the both most excellent
work and be affecting the world and have so much
fun and joy no matter how intense it was. And
I saw you guys on tour, I saw how the intensity.
I saw how exhausted that is, and I felt for
you as well. But you never I never saw you
(44:49):
guys treat fans in a way that didn't include them
in that joy. And I because I knew behind and
in front of the scenes, I knew that that was true.
So I just I always looked up to that. And
I think I wanted in Wicked to really feel that
we could be the most do the most excellent work.
We could break all these precedences that were set before us.
(45:15):
That we could have a queer man and a queer
woman play a couple in the movie, and we didn't
have to talk about it. Yeah, we have a woman
who uses a wheelchair to play Nessa for the first
time ever and we didn't have to talk about it.
That we could have an Asian matter morrible. And by
(45:36):
the way, did you guys know that Madam Horrible upside
Down is like Wicked? Pretty amazing? Ye?
Speaker 2 (45:42):
That did you just come up with that?
Speaker 4 (45:45):
And and to me, so you can have a musical
that said something about our world and and actually affect
the world and bring joy out there. So anyway, I
guess I hope that people get get a little bit
of what I got from when I was the observer,
that you can do all of it. You can have
a beautiful set, you can make great work, and you
(46:06):
can break ground, and that all exists together and it's
not about toy.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
That's so nice of you to say. It's yeah, thank
you for saying that.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Thanks for the reflection.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
It's nice to hear from somebody who was there, who
got to see those early days, and.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
For us to see you.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
Continue to wear your heart and storytelling on your sleeves
and it literally like seep into every piece of work
and every detail from the rustling of the wind to
how high the wind is, like it's so divine and
so inspiring, and it's truly. I wish there were more
John Che's out there, and I know there are, and
(46:46):
I hope that people listening to this are inspired to
go do the thing that you're doing and do it
with such grace and detail and finite. You know, I
don't know the feelings like I am just always so
inspired by you, and we're just so grateful that we got.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
To connect with you again and have you here and
hear you talk.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
We could hear you talk for hours and hours and hours,
but We're just it's just wonderful to see you again
and your words.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yeah yeah, thank you so much for spending so much
time with us. We appreciate it. The busiest man in Hollywood,
true truly.
Speaker 3 (47:21):
Good luck with the workshop today is one.
Speaker 4 (47:26):
Of the best. It is a musical, especially it does
a musical making it a musical.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Is there a wedding scene in it? The beauty is
the beautiful wedding.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
Do you love weddings because all the weddings are just.
Speaker 4 (47:40):
So many weddings growing up. But I'm like, I know
how to do it.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
It makes so much The two most beautiful, like cinematic
weddings I've ever seen in films aren't for you and
crazy irritations. I was like, this knows how to do
a wedding.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
I told you I love weddings, and I get to
control the wedding.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Yes, are you? Oh my gosh, we love it.
Speaker 4 (48:03):
Thanks?
Speaker 1 (48:04):
Thank you, John Bye, Oh my gosh, she's so sweet.
Uh John, true everybody John.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
Just John. I feel like we just need to do
like a yearly check in with him.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
I mean, I just want to hear to speak about
I mean, we barely scratch the surface and it's like.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
Just the detail in which he knows how to.
Speaker 4 (48:35):
Look.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
People know can direct whatever, but to direct on the
level that he's directing on and you hurt it yourself
paying attention to the detail every word that he hangs
on from every person in the camp like is really
it's what elevates.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
His stuff and makes it so good.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
And you can tell that he truly does love what
he does, whether he's shooting a wedding, somebody's wedding or
shooting a wedding at the highest level.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
So I think that's also what makes me like him
a really great director for the Wicked movies, because he
sees it in a way like we all want to
be seen like he does it in a way that's
so approachable. And I mean that in like the best
(49:26):
way possible, where like Wicked could have gone wrong in
so many.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
Ways no I know, but he knew.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
He knew. You can revere something you know like you
have the utmost respect for it and still have your
vision for it where you can bring in new audiences
around the world to something that I've never seen it
and they can love it. And then you can also
bring in people who have loved the stage show for
forever and they can also love it, and that's a
(49:54):
really hard balance to strike. And Yeah, I think he's
really found because you can hear. I'm so glad people
can hear just how much he cares deeply, not just
about the final product, but about every little thing that
goes into the process, the people he's surrounding himself with,
and his love and understanding of the story.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
Yeah, thank you John for literally taking the time to
go to a workshop. Yeah, you go direct a workshop
for crazy djation, It's no big deal.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
And for you guys to hope you guys enjoyed the
conversation and come back next week.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
That's what you really missed. Thanks for listening, and follow
us on Instagram at and that's what you really miss pod.
Make sure to write us a review and leave us
five stars. See you next time.
And That's what You Really Missed with Jenna.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And Kevin An iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to and That's what You Really miss Podcast. It's
a very exciting day. We have an old friend here
who's maybe one of the biggest stars of Hollywood right now. John,
I'm true.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
John is just a great guy. He's just a good,
good person person and I'm so happy we get to
chat with him. And I think you will. How he
is when we talk to him now is how he
is all the time. Yes, the difference, there's no ego.
There's just the love for the craft exactly, love for
(00:52):
his friends, love for his coworkers, love for story and
what he's doing, and family and that goes into every
single thing he does. Also, forgot he was around us
during Glee.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Oh yeah, my way I think my way in was
like he was doing were like he's doing the Justin
Bieber like movie, which was one of the first of
those movies, right and he did it the best. And
he was just around us and I remember him with
Harry and you and everybody, and he's just the fact
(01:26):
and like his memories of Glee also are so sweet
and just like watching us and seeing us so like,
I'm I'm still astounded, and he remembers that, but that
was such a you know, and.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
One breath I am and one breath I'm not because
that's the sum No, I know exactly. Well.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I hope you guys enjoyed this conversation with John. Yeah,
that's all I have to say.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yes, strap In, this is John. I'm chu director of
Wicked and Wicked for Good. Where are you right now?
Speaker 4 (01:57):
I am in New York City? Oh same, Yeah, I
know it's crazy because I was here only for Crazy.
Wh Change is the musical. So we have a twenty
nine hour read, which I've never done because I've never
directed a skill before.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
So it's a wild that's so exciting.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Wow, we have a whole cast of people. It's been
like today we do like a run through of it
and it's gonna be really fun.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Why do I sneak into that? That is incredible.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Wow, that's really cool. It's good to see you.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yes, thanks for doing.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
This great, thank you. It's been I've waited a long
time to do this. Guys watched I've listened.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Oh John, Oh my god, the business man at the
moment your podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
How are you doing? Like how do you feel mentally
physically through all of this, Like do you.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
I feel, you know, exhausted. But as I saw in
some TikTok inspirational video, how blessed are we to be
exhausted for the work that we dreamed of since we
begged the universe for it since we were kids. Yeah,
I'm like, thank god we get to tell stories. Yeah,
and I got five kids, that's crazy. I gave year old,
(03:17):
six year old, four year old, two year old, and
one year old. And so the exhaustion is like beautiful,
Like you know how it is, Jenna, Like it's just
you watch someone discover the world every day. Yeah, it's
a cynical and annoyed. It can annoying sometimes it can be.
It can be like my little boys doing this poking
thing where he just like pokes you instead of like
(03:38):
holds your hand. And my wife's like, how do I
tell him?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Like it's really really annoying.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Like give him options, maybe say my head instead. I
don't know, And then I try to do it like, oh,
that's a great idea, John, let me just try to
do that, and he was like, nah, no, that's my
life basically.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yes, when I think about like how are you or
anyone in your position. You have young kids, you're also
juggling a billion work things and also trying to like
because you work in a creative field, so like, how
do you keep your creative And I was like, you
know what, whenever I want something done, like I know,
Jenna is like the best person to call, or like
(04:16):
anybody with kids because either awake already. Yeah, but also
you have to be organized. You have to know how
to like still as much little free time you have
with whatever you want to be doing.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It's like Christian as possible.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Yes, yeah, you just roll with it. You just roll
with it, you go, you have solutions as quickly as possible.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Probably what makes you such a good director. You're like,
here's three options for you instead of the one.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
Yeah, I couldn't tell what which which came first. Now
it's all blurred. But I'm pretty sure that directing helped
my parenting. My parenting actually helped my my directing more
because I think I think being a parent is really
creative and I think that it actually set rates. Like
I used to get stressed because I used to think
about the movie or the project when I went home.
(05:05):
When I'm sleeping when I get up and it's like
that's that's actually more exhausting, and that actually is a problem.
But when I when you come home and you got
to change a diaper, you gotta like calm a fight
down or something. You leave all that stuff gone and
you're still I mean, you can still jump back in,
but but yeah, there's a separation and your brain gets
to rest. And I think that that's amazing and I'm
(05:27):
more creative than ever for sure. Oh wow, that's great,
And to share this journey is insane. I can say, hey,
see these drawings, like now, these are going to become
real things. And then my kids come to the set
and they're like, oh now and feel the fabric, look
at the things. And then you go and you and you.
They go to school and now their friends have t
shirts of the drawing that they saw back in the
day and they were there, they were actually on the
(05:49):
yellow brick road. I think, I don't know how that
really messes with their head, but I think you dream
and it happens, and that's a natural thing of the world.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
And actually, as a kid, when our imaginations are so
explosive and everything is an opportunity to use your imagination
when you're a kid. Also as an adult, boat we
have to remind ourselves of that. I think, yeah, and yeah,
that has to be such a crazy thing because most
of us are like, you know, using like cardboard boxes
and like sheets that we found to build costumes and like,
(06:22):
at least I was like building sets and things in
my house. And then they actually get to walk on
like people at the top of their craft doing like
the biggest thing possible.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Well, you know, as a as a kid, myself and
we would go to see shows, musicals, opera, ballets, whatever
it was, watching movies. You know, when you don't know
much about the business. You also don't the only access
point you have is like the acting side of it.
So you're in musical theater, you do all this stuff,
and then later you learn, oh, there's like a whole
other side. Yeah, like do this thing called directing. And
(06:57):
my kids definitely know like, oh there's like directing, there's
like in front and behind the camera. They understand what
all the things are, at least the concepts of and
so I think that's really interesting. We'll see how that affects.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Someone actually the producer, Okay, exactly. I love to tell
you speaking of little kids, I'm curious to hear, like
I just I can imagine somebody who studied the craft
and you know study, you know, production and TV in
school and all of these things, and just was immersed
(07:28):
in it as a kid. Like what would that John
say about John? Now, like did you manifest this?
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Did you know? Or were you like would he be
like shell shocked?
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Well, I have the weird answer and probably the more
realistic answer.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Well, give us the weird one.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
The weird answer is, yeah, I knew. I feel like
I've already lived this life, and I felt like I've
seen all of this before and I was on a
journey and I had to stick to it. And that's
that's what I made myself. Whether it's real or not,
I don't know, but I really believed it. Since I
was probably nine years old, I did see this life
and in a weird way, did it make me sort
(08:12):
of just know that like whatever path I'm on, it
felt like a book that I was just on certain
chapters on and once I get through this chapter is
actually the next good part. And then I would tell
myself this. So again, whether it's true or not, I
don't know. But I sort of made myself believe that
that that's how I was going to survive all of this.
So every bad moment was I knew, oh no, don't worry,
(08:36):
You'll be fine. And for some reason, for some I
know that's not that doesn't necessarily work, but for some reason,
I did keep going, and I because of that, I
did get here to this point. But I don't think
that that's like a philosophy of life. I don't know,
but that's that's what I think now. The reality of
it all, I think, deep down, I don't believe I'm
(08:59):
any of this, and that I have to work really
hard to catch up to the image or what people
think or what my even my movies sort of present
to the world. So I'm always but I like to
try to live up to that. So I'm always chasing,
(09:20):
chasing this thing.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I feel like that's probably that sounds healthy, both of those,
like the balance of both of those. Like if you
had one of that the other night, I would be
worried about you. But because you have both, in my
professional opinion, because I will.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Be hungry, right like it keeps hungry if something's chasing
me and I'm chasing something and something's chasing me, and
I think that's an okay balance. I've never felt so
chased that I'm just scared. But I will say that
the thing that I think is the difference for me,
and sometimes I feel shame about it, is that my
(09:59):
entry point into movie making. I grew up loving movies,
watching movies, all those things, but my entry point was
making actually making movies because I was given a camera
and I was started to make stuff before I knew
even my full love of cinema. I was just it
was a process of making and I fell in love
with the shooting. I fell in love with the editing.
(10:19):
I fell in love with delivery, showing sharing to me
that I just knew that I was going to do
that for the rest of my life, whether whether I
was going to get paid for it or not. If
I wasn't getting paid by a studio, I'd be making
wedding videos and bar mits videos the way I did
in high school. Like I get just as much enjoyment
of videoing my children and videoing someone's wedding than making wicked.
(10:42):
To be honest, like there is something the process is
what I love at any scale. It is what I'm
addicted to, and so I guess maybe that's there's a
calmness to that that win or lose. I still got
my camera and I still got my editing and knowing
about that. So I don't know, maybe that's the that's
the part that I lean on often and and I
(11:05):
get embarrassed with that sometimes because some people want me
to be so in love with cinema that I know
every director and every shot and everything, and or they
want to know what's your dream job, like what's the
movie that you're ultimately going to make? And I'm like,
I just I'm not that person. Wicked is probably the
closest thing to that dream like image. But I but
(11:27):
I am. I. I like to exercise this tool and
I love to find new things. I love to reflect
what I'm going through in my life through it, and
I love to discover my life through it.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
So wow, Yeah, I mean that sounds like something we
all can learn from, though, especially in the entertainment business.
So forget the shame, John, because I mean the process,
the experience of it, of why we actually love it.
I think so often like we can bear ourselves down
in like comparison, compare ourselves to others or going for oh,
(12:00):
I want my movie to look like this other movie
that was done by being able to actually like have
the tangible thing of being on a set or at
a wedding or whatever it is and actually doing it.
If that's if that's your way in like that sounds
like a really sort of wonderful thing to be able
to fall back on.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Yeah, I think I appreciate. I think I love the
collaboration as well, learning new ways to figure out how
to get better collaboration or get access to those things
while also having my vision. I think I love the
technical part of like how do you communicate and finding
finding the right words.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, we talked to Chris Scott, who we love, saying
I love and sweet man, I feel like you're like
Oprah and I'm alhamas I was Oprah Oprah because and
(13:04):
I swear this goes back to collaboration, because the whole joke,
like I have some of my friends like we all
want to be the Oprah where like if one comes up,
everybody comes up. And I feel like you have done
that in so much of your collaboration and in your
friendship and there's a lot of overlap there and someone
like Chris Scott, who choreographed Wicked and for Good and
(13:28):
The Heights, all these things, someone you've known. We've all
known each other for so long.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Long, long time now, and it's but.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
It's really beautiful to see and as we've all sort
of grown up in this business where loyalty and friendship
often play second fiddle to like, you know, yeah, getting
a step ahead or like whatever it may be, and
building collaboration and building teams especially, I think something for
(13:58):
like these Wicked films where it's a gigantic team, where
do you start? And like how in that process of
building the collaboration is Chris Scott front of mine? Because
this is someone you have and you have a dialogue
with friendship and working dialogue with, like how how does.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
That work well? First of all, even just to give
your audience some context for us, we were babies when
we all met, and you were even more babies when
you guys became superstars. So it's kind of crazy that
it was on the Paramount lot. I think lot some
of us met me and Kevin maybe we met right
(14:38):
before that at Adam Savanni's house or something like, Yeah,
I played Moose and step up to the Street, which
was my first first movie. And then all my friends
Harry Shum got onto this show called Glee, this pilot
that everyone was on. Danny my ad for my first
(14:58):
movie was also the eight There and Zach and all
these people. And suddenly and I was editing g I Joe,
Oh no, maybe I was editing Justin Bieber never Yes
on the lot, on the Paramount lot, and they are
these group of crazy kids running around shooting, shooting a show.
(15:21):
I was like, what is going on? And then it
becomes this massive hit. Of course I watched it on
that what was at a Super Bowl Sunday the PHO,
watched everybody wait for the whole summer for this show
to come out. It was just so I will never
forget the joy and the excitement of this new show
with these new this new generation of people that were
(15:43):
going to show us how musical theaters have done. And
I was I just I always think, to me, watching
that become so mainstream and so beloved showed me that
this was like that it was still in our blood here. Yeah,
like have joy and root for each other and be
(16:04):
silly and funny all the things and be serious about
real things. That the combination was so cool. And then
to watch you guys grow as people and have your
own families and the things, and and it was just
it's just been like, really, when you talk about people,
I think about that a lot. Gus we're supportive of
each other and they're for each other. And and I
(16:26):
watched just from the other side of the door, you
guys do all that. I love that a lot of
those people are part of my family too.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Likewise, like I mean, we I think we met during
the Adam and Miley like dance battle. Yeah, we had
a YouTube dance YouTube dance because I was really close
with Adam's brother v. We're in a boy band together
and a great band. Oh yeah, And so I met
you through you filming dance, do you know what I mean?
(16:57):
Like to me, your storytelling has always been like music driven. Yeah,
And so like on the flip side, we've all gotten
to watch you like go from project to project and
see your growth and see your family grow, and it's
been like this wonderful, like beautiful experience and also something
for all of us to be so proud of where
(17:17):
it feels like like one of us, you know. And yeah,
also because like you're just I know, people see you
and you're like, he's this big, huge director, which you are,
but also you're just like the kindest, like normal, approachable human,
which I also think is really just lovely to see.
(17:37):
And I think you also see that reflected in like
the crazy media press tours of it all how which
also goes back to you know, my original question about
like collaboration. Because you're at the top, you set the
tone for everything, and just knowing you as a human,
it makes so much sense to me of why everybody
(17:58):
feels this way. Yeah, sort of under your stewardship. But
you know, I've never been and I I haven't directed
a huge studio films, and so I know things start
at the top and you hope they trickle down, but
I'm not sure what the intentional or not that process.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
It's yeah, it's intentional. Yes, it's intentional because in order
from what I found is that I work best when
there isn't people trying to crowd the court. I've discovered
through all these years that when everybody when there's when
someone who takes like the oxygen out of the room
(18:34):
in a bad way or an ego way, or distrustful way.
I don't. I can't step in like I don't have
like I don't think it's worth it. I'm like, I
have my ideas, and I hope people like want these ideas,
and I'm going to go give it to you. And
I work best when when I have an environment of
people like John, what do you What do you have
to say? Like, let's open up the court for you
(18:56):
and go run. It's like Forrest Gump, like just go John,
and I can do that. But when people are blocking
and they don't, they're taking the space. I don't take
the space. So I've just learned to like And doesn't
mean I find people that don't say anything or something.
I find people who don't feel threatened by hearing other
ideas but also have a vision and who are not pushovers,
(19:19):
because I don't like someone who just floats anyway. I
want you don't want a yes man. I don't want
a yes man. I want people who love what they do.
That's probably the number one thing that you love what
you do. You'd willing to stay up four in the
morning or get up at four in the morning just
to do it because it's your life's dream. And we
get to do this and you recognize that this is
(19:40):
it that we have in our life, because that also
makes feels my passion because I love what we get
to do. And so I start there like who we
bring in got to be the best of the best.
There's no compromise of that. But you also have to
love it. It can't be some other obsession. It has
to be this. And then we start communicating at our
(20:02):
currency level. So I when I meet someone or I
bring them in, I need to understand that we that
we don't have to have the same currency of why
we're here, but we have to. I have to understand
that what I want or what I'm aiming for fulfills
or is in parallel or whatever cross sections your currency
(20:22):
for why you're doing it. Why do you want to
do this? What do you need from this when you
come out of this, Oh, Cynthia, you want to try
something new, put on a new thing, or go worldwide
or whatever it may be. Does that cross over with
my vision of retelling the American fairy tale and questioning that, Oh, yes,
you want to talk about it in this way, but
I want to talk about Okay, So the combination is
going to be really interesting and you are Brande. Oh
(20:44):
you've never let a movie before. Okay, I've directed people
who haven't done it. I know the difficulties of that.
I know how to protect you. But I also know
that you have to be ready for this. Can I
see those little do I? Can I see the hints
of knowing that she can be ready for this? Away
she wait ready for this. It's like old baby. Yeah,
(21:05):
and then we can work together to find that and
so anyway that that's where it starts. And and then
when we go I'm like, I love to visualize and communicate.
It's always communication. That's number one when we're making a creative, collaborative,
giant project. And so I fill rooms with with with words,
with images, with models, with videos that I'm always cutting together,
(21:27):
so everyone has as much of stuff in the digital
soup and in the physical soup as possible. So whatever
we're every and I give a lot of people freedom
to yes and everything. I tries to say no as
little as possible, just to like see where we go. Yeah,
then we can then we can really minimize and and
(21:47):
and actually like focus and have clarity on what we're
trying to say.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, yeah, Wow. When you're like planning something that is
this big, Yeah, as is bohemous. What is the I
guess maybe like the workflow for you in terms of
when you're getting what's coming up first? I guess right,
like the production design is casting is figuring out where
(22:15):
you're going to shoot this damp thing?
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Like what?
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And are all these things happening happening simultaneously or is
there like a process for you in which I need
to know this before I can do this, and I
need to know that before that.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Yeah, at a certain point, things are happening all the
same time. But but but in terms of layering, it
starts with the script. Like I get on board, they
call me, they what do you think about Wicked? I
was like, yeah, I'm down.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, so you approached about it because there's been so
many you know, like almost it's almost happened so many times. Yes, yes,
And then like ring ring, I was watching those.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
Same articles and reading those things that I actually I
actually email my my team like what's going on with Wicked? Dude?
They keep missing these dates and I want to see
that movie. And by the way, is that a sign
that they're having trouble? Because I know how to make
this movie? I know exactly what to do, Like I
knew I knew what this movie was since I first
saw it.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
What was that feeling? Like, what was the thing?
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Like?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
This is how, this is how I would do it.
I know your way into it.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
My way into what it was. It was so much
the relationship between these two women. I mean, that's obvious now,
but when I first saw it was before I was
on Broadway, and it was so clearly, like, Wow, that
is so smart that you're reinventing the American fairy tale
from the inside out through the relationship of these two women,
of bringing two very different women together and finding their
(23:39):
power together. And I'm like me being in college at
the time that I watched it, going through film school,
I under and letting go of my childhood American fairy
Tale of the Wizard of Oz and ushering in a
new idea of friendship. What happened to those friends that
you had for all those years? What happened to the
person you were all those years who you're turning into.
(24:00):
What is the new? Do you still have that optimism
or is the world actually way different than what you
thought and you're going to change because of it? Like
all those questions were happening at the same time, and
a musical form. And I was going to film school,
so I saw the shots. I saw the world of
Oz is not a dream. It's a real physical place,
and these are real relationships, and like, let's get in,
(24:23):
let's get in, like.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
To make it into your head already, Yeah, and never
thinking in a weird way more like a fan fiction
thing that would be so cool, right, yeah, but like
it's probably your subconscious over all those years.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
It's like, and the idea of a musical as the biggest,
most epic musical ever created by Hollywood, Like yeah, like
show that we still can do it and use visual
effects and sets and stunts and live singing in ways
that we can give theater to everybody, but also cinema
(24:59):
to everybody. That all of them are like one upping
each other and and as big as any and as
big a swing as any musical ever had. Yeah, to me,
like that was that was And they came to me
during COVID lockdown, So in a way, we didn't even
know if movies were going to be made anymore.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Like, are people are ever going to go back to
the movie theater?
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Yeah, go for it. John. Let's see, we think we
think musicals are dead, we think movies are dead. We're
not sure we all going to touch each other or see
each other again, but if you want to try.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
It was also that weird era like right after that,
where there are a couple like musicals that like people
weren't advertising as musicals. Yeah, you know, there's like that
whole thing where it's like what is everybody doing?
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Yeah, I do have I do have a philosophy about
that though, because we advertise musicals and so there is
an issue. There is an actual physical issue because every
time I'm like, guys, show all the music, and like
you try to do all the music because it's getting crazy.
Change is lyrics. If you try to do like like
trailers have to be so ancise. The moment you put
(26:07):
a song in, you better stick to that song a
little longer, just switch, and the moment you switch, it's
like mayhem, and then the words better be right and
they're not always in the right place. So there is
an actual technical that we never talked about because.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Let the people know, this is my soapbox.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Hey, it's way more difficult. You can put a dance
movement in something fine sure, but actually physically a person.
You know, in trailers, we're constantly cutting different things together
and different word together to give a cohesive, simplified idea
of the movie. That people get it when you have songs,
they're just not that like concise.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah, sorry, it's fair. That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
Yes, that's why, like we have we actually have a couple.
If you watch the Wicked trailer evolution, there are some
that we just were like, okay, now let's do the
version where we just do all the music and it's
like one actually I thought went really well and I
was like, that's actually awesome. But you have to have
such a talented music editor in your and that's not
(27:14):
part of the movie. This is part of a whole
nother department of market. Yeah, all these companies. Yeah, that's
someone who really understands it, and the composer has to
approve it. The original composer, Stephen Schwartz, doesn't like, sorry,
you guys, start over and you just spent six weeks
so Steven anyway, it's a.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Lot, guys, every piece, every piece is that The.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Thing about a musical is that people don't realize the
technical how technical it really is. Because if you're doing
the musical right, it's supposed to look really easy. It's
supposed to never look sweaty, almost not be a musical
at all. You just feel it, every ounce of it,
every rhythm, every can ruin it, every sound effect. How
(28:02):
much folly do you hear when they close the door
and they're singing the song, or do you not do
that at all? And every filmmaker has their own philosophy
about that. You guys on the show had a philosophy
at how sound and music should play together or how
reality and those things relat together. And every filmmaker has
to make that choice, if they even know they had
to make that choice. Some people who are starting a
musical have never made a musical. Suddenly you're in it
(28:23):
and you're like, oh that, there's not like a rule.
You're like, no, it's like, how what do you go?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
It's a taste. It's a taste level thing.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Yes, and sometimes it takes you a whole movie to
figure out what your taste or what your strategy is
with this, and that by the end you're like, oh,
I'm done, i gotta do another one. And then people
don't do another one because they're too scared.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, I was actually thinking about those little things you
were saying about sound. So you and I ran into
you and Chris at the Grove when Wicked came out
last year, and I remember you ran. You ran out
of the theater because you wanted to like adjust the
sound because it was quiet. For the record, I think
the Grove has terrible sound anyway, they always have. But
(29:02):
you don't have to say that.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
I was saying, I.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Never go to that theater. That was the one time
I went to that theater because I already had tickets
with my friends. But I boycott that location anyway. But
I when I went to see it in New York
at a different AMC, and the sound was great, and
I was thinking about and no, good deed, there's so
much going on. There's so much you know, sound effects
(29:26):
and fully things happening, but you can still hear every
every instrument, Cynthia's voice coming through and like that perfect balance.
I was like, oh, I don't know what John's on,
but whatever is happening, it is all sounding correct in
my ears like it is. I'm seeing and hearing every
single thing.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, that's our mixed team is amazing,
Andy Nelson, Simon Hayes, who's recording the live, actual singing live, unreal,
and are John Marcus are mixed everybody, and we're all
in the room together, and we already because we did
in the Heights, we already have a full philosophy about
(30:07):
how much we want to hear. I want it to
feel real. I want to feel like it's emerging from
from a from a person's so it feels like dialogue,
but of course it escalates again, so and then how
much the wing flaps interrupts her lyrics or things like that.
That's but I also know how important it is to
hear those lyrics. There's one lyric in there that I
wish it was more clear, but we look went through
all the live versions and couldn't get quite the clarity,
(30:30):
and so you know, we're just eking it in. But yeah, anyway, yeah,
so it's a constant, constant tweaking there.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Obviously, you have like two of the best singers in
the world who led this with you.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yeah, I know, it's just like it's not important at all,
but no, they absolutely truly incredible, And so I know
that they've spoken about this in press where you guys
made the decision that you were going to sing live,
So was there in your mind was there any other
option before they were cast where you're like, oh, we
might have to pre record this, or were you open
(31:15):
to the pre recording or were you passionate about the
live being element being there because of you know, the
performances as it's been done before in other movie musicals.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Yeah, when we were doing In the Heights and we're
shooting here in Washington Heights, it was a beautiful experience
because I have nothing against pre records, like I love
pre records. If the intention of the scene is in
the pre record, there's a version of the pre record
that you do before you even start. That's part of
the rehearsals and part of the things. And then you
discover what you're doing, and then you should record re
(31:47):
record that. Yes, oh yeah, the money to rerecord it,
you should be doing that, yea. And I think sometimes
people don't do that, and so then you feel that separation. Yeah,
but in the Heights, we would rerecord it every few
weeks because our guys are in rehearsals, things would change
and so it stayed in parallel with us. And then
when we're on set. What we realized is there's nothing.
(32:10):
It's hard to do live because there's buses and cars
and people that don't give us here in New York
that you're shooting a musical. And yeah, so it was
really hard to do live all the time. But there
were moments where we got to do it, or when
we felt like it was clear enough and you could
you could record and see and get and possibly get
something from this. And that was an amazing experience, which
meant we have We had a pianist every day on
(32:33):
set ready to go, and we did more live than
I expected in here in Washing Heights, on the streets
and suddenly you're singing in the middle of a sidewalk
or in a subway and there's a live pianist and
your everyone's and no one can hear it, and you're
just hearing the vocals, but you could hear it in
your ears, the on your on your calms to the
pianists and her or him and I and I always
(32:55):
loved that. I felt like that's where we were getting
the juice. And so with these these ladies of course
coming in, I was like, they can do it, and
we're on sound stages essentially like we're not going.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
To a placement.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Yeah, you try it, but I don't. I don't know
how they feel. They may want their their vocals super pristine,
and we're just gonna have to do what we did
and in the heights where we just keep re recording
until we find the right one and maybe even after
once we shot the scene, we recorded again. So that
was the technique we began with record the pre records
(33:25):
when they first arrived because I wanted They had never
gone through Wicked School with Stephen Schwartz and Steven Arimas,
so I go through Wicked School. Just just do it.
Just get to know them. I we will. We have
not even had rehearsals yet, so then you come to
me and then we'll discover the character. So just take
it as like a physical, uh, muscle memory exercise. And
they did that with Stephen and Stephen, and then they
(33:47):
also did muscle movement exercises with Chris Scott to just
get movement in and so he could assess what they
can or cannot do. He's getting languages from them, like
movement languages of where they're thinking. Even though none of
them have talked to me. Yet. I mean we've met,
but not really. Like then we got into a room
and we start Then me and the girls start working
on these scenes and we start to discover these characters
(34:09):
and we're like, oh, actually, yeah, Alphabet actually moves more
than we expect from the Wicked Witch to the West.
She actually has more dignity for herself than you think
in the joke of the Wicked Witch of the West.
Because since it's bringing that, okay, that means her movement
is different. So bring that to your rehearsals next time
(34:29):
and let me all come in there and make sure
he understands what we're trying to talk about here. Yeah,
and bring that into the show. Oh, Steven's trying to
push you to be have that cackle, but actually that
cackle should come from a place of joy actually, and
that it's like it's like a laugh that you're a
belly laugh. So like, rather than the iconic laugh, do
the belly laugh version, and so let me talk to Steven.
(34:49):
So we do it step by step as we build
both and so by the time we actually get to set,
we know all of it. We probably haven't re recorded
that voice, and so we were like, let's just record
it live. We have the best Simon Hayes, the best
recorder is, you know, on set for live stuff. He
did le Mis, he did all these things, so he's like,
I could do it, John. So he's hiding mics in
(35:10):
their hats, and sometimes we have mics on their skin
because there's no clothes up here, and we're just painting
those out later. So we're trying to get the clearest sound,
and sometimes that's annoying. Sometimes the girls are like I
can feel the weight, and you're like, I know, but
we're doing this live, like I need a mic somewhere,
and so we're constantly trying to figure things out, and
then you record it and you realize, oh, the live
(35:33):
version is absolutely one that's connecting. Let's just do it
the next day. Let's do it the next day. And
by the end you're like, nobody wants to do it
not live. Yeah, you always have the option. Yeah. To me,
I'm like, I never if you come in sick today,
I need you next week, don't worry about it. Yeah,
let's do it and we'll figure it out.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
So and then I remember happens, to be honest, all
the fifty something days that we shot.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Not to get too into the weeds about that, but.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Actually live they did happen a couple of days that
they got sick, but they pushed through it and it
actually helps the performance in a where you could hear
their voice.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
It's so effective. It's effective in every way that they
showed up. It just it was like the performance when
you're sick, it doesn't you know, if you're performing, it
works if you're not, like one hundred and two fevers.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
You have two people like that who are used to
live performing and probably pushing through those things.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
They know how to work around it.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Like we're not sacking insurance.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
Yeah we did one hundred and sixty shows, we did
a hundred whatever.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
I like we've been watching a lot of musicals on
this podcast lately, like different movie musicals, and I'm always
just fascinated. You don't have to go into two in
depth about this, but because you answered a lot of it.
But when you're recording the live, obviously we want the
live because there's the emotion, the rawness of it, but
the recording, like the mics you're using themselves obviously different.
(36:55):
If you're in a recording booth with that sound and
those mics that are made exactly for that, and you're
using probably like mics that are maybe made to capture dialogue.
And then you have Cynthia flying and she's singing, Like
how are you able to sort of like bridge that
gap maybe of like having a vocal, a singing vocal
that still sounds good up against music that is cinema
(37:18):
worthy and also I think you know still makes the
audience feel like you do in the theater. For example,
when she's singing define gravity and you have that emotional reaction,
which I imagine helps having the live singing because you're
in a complete crient medium. But like the technicality aspect
of recording the vocal and then mixing it afterwards to
make sure it still sounds like studio quality.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
I guess we got Simon Hayes, who's the best of
the best, and he's also like super militant about the quiet,
Like there was we be shooting in a warehouse and
like we're not warehouse of our stage and it's a
brand new stage and we have this whole jungle that
we built, so this forest and every time Cynthia would sing,
you'd hear birds in the right afters they start singing
(38:01):
because they made nests, and you're like, what the heck
is that. You're like, oh, these are birds. They only
sing when Cynthia is singing, which is wow, it's like
amazing anyway, and so Simon was like, those birds they're
on your track. We've got to get them off this track.
And so he started playing these birds of prey sounds.
He's like, to scare the birds. He's quiet, and Cynthia heard.
(38:26):
She's like, what the hell is that? And like, that's
that's We're trying to scare the birds so that they
don't go on the track. Cleinging tracks just for you.
And she's like, that will not happen, not on the sets.
Tell them, do not play those sounds. If they're on
my track, then God wants them to be on my.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Nimals do.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
It's in her and the reality is those those birds
are sometimes on her track. And that's what you can
get along. You can get away with a lot. You know,
we also have, you know, our our mixed team after
you know. I think the hardest part about directing a
musical is that director's role of pulling the thread through
(39:07):
is way more important, because a musical walks on this
fine edge of of permission to do what it does.
And I won't say cringe because I think that I
think cringe is a nasty word by pessimists who don't
want to just see joy. But I will say that
I understand the that that an audience in a cinema
(39:31):
has to agree to this, to entering this world of
the musical, and has to agree to believe in the
realities of the rules of a musical world, and that
if you cross that reality, how annoying that can be.
You have to stick with the things that you you
had set up in the first ten minutes of the movie.
(39:53):
And I think that as a director your your movie,
that line is walked by every element of your movie.
That's in the color, that's in the costume, that's in
the pacing of the editing, that's in how where you're
making cuts, that's in the sound mix of where does
the instruments feel like they come from, how the entrances
and exits of those, the transitions of that, that is
(40:14):
in the actual mix of of of of of the
urgency of things. It comes in a lot of different forms. Yeah,
own jokes, how you play jokes, is or winked to
an audience? Is there not? Or does anybody look at
the camera? Do we brave that forth? Like, these are
all things that one misstep and you're and you lose
the audience really quickly. So you have to pull that thread,
(40:36):
just just as a medium, the director has to pull
that thread from the very words on the script all
the way to the delivery of the color when you're
color timing, and the and and the coughs that you
hear in the mix, or the saliva that you hear
when they singing or or sniffles that they hear when
they're off camera and crying. That that that alone is
(40:57):
a big task for that And that's not even talking
about how you tell the story. That's just technical tone.
And I'm not even talking about technical like actually tech,
but like technical as in how you keep the how
you agree to the rules of this world. Then you
have to get into the actual storytelling of where you
pull the audience into the drama or to the comedy
(41:19):
of it. So anyway, I forget the question, but that's
great that pull through. I have to know my conversations
with Cynthia and Ariana in a office building that we
discussed a certain scene, because if I don't follow through
with that on the other end, they'll be doing stuff
that doesn't matter. But if I bring that into the
mix and say, hey, for good, is something where they're
(41:40):
actually looking at each other and speaking these things, and
so let's play it as dialogue. So let's let's minimize
that orchestration. Even though we have one hundred piece orchestra,
they have amazing stuff. I want to hear the and
you would never hear the leaves blow by, but in
that one space, let the leaves blow by. I want
to feel the space between them and have that. Let's
(42:01):
hear the rustling of the branches in there, so we
can feel the loneliness or whatever like, or feel how
high they are by the type of winds that you have.
And so I can conform that because of our conversations
way back then and anyway, when those things start to
tie together, it becomes much more cohesive experience that every
element is carrying you lyrically in this that I think
(42:23):
it is a musicality, Kevin. I know we talk a
lot about musicality because I think that's something I discovered
when working with dancers It's like there are dancers and
they do things, and some people do tricks and whatever,
but that's not dancing. To me, Like the highest bar
of dancing is someone with musicality, because musicality isn't about
what you're trained to do. It is about interpreting the music,
(42:45):
and if the music changes, your musicality better change. Otherwise
what are you doing. You're just doing a routine that
you learned. But if your dance movement changes because the
song changes, it means you're connected to that song. And
I learned to respect that so much working with dancers
that that's what I look for, number one. And in
a weird way, I look for that musicality in all
of life, whether that's an actor or a cinematographer or
(43:06):
a costume designer, that they are reacting to the fabric
of the emotion of a scene or of life. The
messiness of life is well, but they're interpreting and finding
in their medium. And to me, if I get to
bring that and connect the dots to that, like that
is the power of cinema. You get to sit back
and experience all of those things together in concert.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Somebody said that because I see that in all your work.
You've always done that and like how music has always
led your storytelling in that way, the musicality of it all.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Yeah, thank you John. Before we let you go, we
always ask people on the podcast what is the feeling
that Lee leaves you with? But since we're talking about
Wicked here, I'm going to ask you what is the
feeling that Wicked leaves you with?
Speaker 4 (43:45):
Let me answer both, okay, Because I love Glee and
I love being around you all during that time, and
there is this this this dreamy aspect of seeing you
guys walk lunch together with all the pas and the
golf car going crazy, or you guys in different costumes
(44:08):
every day, and it just to me was like this
youthful joy. And I every day I go out and
see that happening, and you guys were always so kind
to me. I was just the weird guy who's editing
a movie over there. I felt. I felt like that's
(44:29):
the dream of a creative environment that you want to
be in, that you can do the both most excellent
work and be affecting the world and have so much
fun and joy no matter how intense it was. And
I saw you guys on tour, I saw how the intensity.
I saw how exhausted that is, and I felt for
you as well. But you never I never saw you
(44:49):
guys treat fans in a way that didn't include them
in that joy. And I because I knew behind and
in front of the scenes, I knew that that was true.
So I just I always looked up to that. And
I think I wanted in Wicked to really feel that
we could be the most do the most excellent work.
We could break all these precedences that were set before us.
(45:15):
That we could have a queer man and a queer
woman play a couple in the movie, and we didn't
have to talk about it. Yeah, we have a woman
who uses a wheelchair to play Nessa for the first
time ever and we didn't have to talk about it.
That we could have an Asian matter morrible. And by
(45:36):
the way, did you guys know that Madam Horrible upside
Down is like Wicked? Pretty amazing? Ye?
Speaker 2 (45:42):
That did you just come up with that?
Speaker 4 (45:45):
And and to me, so you can have a musical
that said something about our world and and actually affect
the world and bring joy out there. So anyway, I
guess I hope that people get get a little bit
of what I got from when I was the observer,
that you can do all of it. You can have
a beautiful set, you can make great work, and you
(46:06):
can break ground, and that all exists together and it's
not about toy.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
That's so nice of you to say. It's yeah, thank
you for saying that.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Thanks for the reflection.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
It's nice to hear from somebody who was there, who
got to see those early days, and.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
For us to see you.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
Continue to wear your heart and storytelling on your sleeves
and it literally like seep into every piece of work
and every detail from the rustling of the wind to
how high the wind is, like it's so divine and
so inspiring, and it's truly. I wish there were more
John Che's out there, and I know there are, and
(46:46):
I hope that people listening to this are inspired to
go do the thing that you're doing and do it
with such grace and detail and finite. You know, I
don't know the feelings like I am just always so
inspired by you, and we're just so grateful that we got.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
To connect with you again and have you here and
hear you talk.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
We could hear you talk for hours and hours and hours,
but We're just it's just wonderful to see you again
and your words.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yeah yeah, thank you so much for spending so much
time with us. We appreciate it. The busiest man in Hollywood,
true truly.
Speaker 3 (47:21):
Good luck with the workshop today is one.
Speaker 4 (47:26):
Of the best. It is a musical, especially it does
a musical making it a musical.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Is there a wedding scene in it? The beauty is
the beautiful wedding.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
Do you love weddings because all the weddings are just.
Speaker 4 (47:40):
So many weddings growing up. But I'm like, I know
how to do it.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
It makes so much The two most beautiful, like cinematic
weddings I've ever seen in films aren't for you and
crazy irritations. I was like, this knows how to do
a wedding.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
I told you I love weddings, and I get to
control the wedding.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Yes, are you? Oh my gosh, we love it.
Speaker 4 (48:03):
Thanks?
Speaker 1 (48:04):
Thank you, John Bye, Oh my gosh, she's so sweet.
Uh John, true everybody John.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
Just John. I feel like we just need to do
like a yearly check in with him.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
I mean, I just want to hear to speak about
I mean, we barely scratch the surface and it's like.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
Just the detail in which he knows how to.
Speaker 4 (48:35):
Look.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
People know can direct whatever, but to direct on the
level that he's directing on and you hurt it yourself
paying attention to the detail every word that he hangs
on from every person in the camp like is really
it's what elevates.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
His stuff and makes it so good.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
And you can tell that he truly does love what
he does, whether he's shooting a wedding, somebody's wedding or
shooting a wedding at the highest level.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
So I think that's also what makes me like him
a really great director for the Wicked movies, because he
sees it in a way like we all want to
be seen like he does it in a way that's
so approachable. And I mean that in like the best
(49:26):
way possible, where like Wicked could have gone wrong in
so many.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
Ways no I know, but he knew.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
He knew. You can revere something you know like you
have the utmost respect for it and still have your
vision for it where you can bring in new audiences
around the world to something that I've never seen it
and they can love it. And then you can also
bring in people who have loved the stage show for
forever and they can also love it, and that's a
(49:54):
really hard balance to strike. And Yeah, I think he's
really found because you can hear. I'm so glad people
can hear just how much he cares deeply, not just
about the final product, but about every little thing that
goes into the process, the people he's surrounding himself with,
and his love and understanding of the story.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
Yeah, thank you John for literally taking the time to
go to a workshop. Yeah, you go direct a workshop
for crazy djation, It's no big deal.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
And for you guys to hope you guys enjoyed the
conversation and come back next week.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
That's what you really missed. Thanks for listening, and follow
us on Instagram at and that's what you really miss pod.
Make sure to write us a review and leave us
five stars. See you next time.
Host
Jenna Ushkowitz
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Brothers Ortiz
The Brothers Ortiz is the story of two brothers–both successful, but in very different ways. Gabe Ortiz becomes a third-highest ranking officer in all of Texas while his younger brother Larry climbs the ranks in Puro Tango Blast, a notorious Texas Prison gang. Gabe doesn’t know all the details of his brother’s nefarious dealings, and he’s made a point not to ask, to protect their relationship. But when Larry is murdered during a home invasion in a rented beach house, Gabe has no choice but to look into what happened that night. To solve Larry’s murder, Gabe, and the whole Ortiz family, must ask each other tough questions.