WUWY INTERVIEW: Lupe Fiasco On Kick Push Vs Hood Street Music, Atlantic Records Hack, His 'Samurai' Album, + More

Lupe Fiasco On Kick Push Vs Hood Street Music, Atlantic Records Hack, His 'Samurai' Album, + More

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
What's way up with Angela Yee and long time? Look
at Fiasco is here with me. Congrats.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
It's been a long time since I've seen you.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
I feel like it's been a while.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
You know what I was when they first said you
were coming up here. I was thinking about when you
had did that protest outside of Atlantic Records.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
I didn't do that. Can we go? It started attaching
ornaments to me like Christmas Street. My fans okay did that?
They were like, yo, we want the album. I think
it was Lasers. So that was two thousand and eleven.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
You were there, though you had to show up.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
It was like, what do I do? Do I not
show up? So I showed up to see it was
a vibe. Police won't let me in the building. It
was crazy.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
It was an amazing time because I've never seen something
like that happen before, where your fans actually start this
whole protest.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Some of the employees were outside too, I feel like, and.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
It was a legit protest. They like went to the
City of New York, got a permit, police had to
come down. It was the whole thing. Yeah, some folks
who came out, I think Leo came out somebody else
came to appease the masses, right. I just went there
to say what's up, to show my support, and then
I left. The police made me leave.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Actually, at that point in time, what was your relationship
like with this You already know what that is.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
It was bad, it was becoming bad. It was it
was like, uh, and it's just kind of culminated in
that because it was looking like, yo, they're gonna push
the album back. Fans like, nah, we need that the shot.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
But that was the fans, right, That was the fans, okay,
because you know what you being there it looked like.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
It wasn't me. The gun's not mine, no fingerprints, that's
not mine. But no, I had I mean I had
to show up for the I had to show up
for them, you know. I felt like it was important, Like, Okay,
what you're gonna choose? You know, the label gonna be
here even if you did your whole contract another sick
three albums, you know, ten years or something like that.

(01:51):
But these fans, like these people that be with you
for to the end of your career, you know, so
you pick you know, I felt I chose wisely.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah, you had to show up. It would have been crazy.
It was nice that you were able to be there
with them. Let's go back before that, though, because that
wasn't your first deal, was it?

Speaker 3 (02:09):
No?

Speaker 2 (02:09):
No, it wasn't right. Yeah, this music business has been
a crazy one.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
I've been in a music business for like twenty five years.
I've been a music business. My first deal, while I
was not gonna do some stupid math. I'm forty two.
I got my first record deal when I was eighteen. Okay,
so that's twenty what twenty years.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Twenty four yeah, twenty four years, twenty four years. So
where was your first deal?

Speaker 3 (02:34):
I was on Sony, I was on Epic.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Records, Okay, And what happened there?

Speaker 3 (02:38):
It was a group called the Pack.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Oh that's right.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
We had a song called Armpits and then I think
it was fired. Oh for the time, you know Armpits.
That was my first deal.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
With label issues. Is that why you guys broke up?
Or was it issues with each other?

Speaker 3 (02:56):
It was like it was a put together. It was
like one of those. It was a time where it
was like, yo, he can rap, he can rap, he
can rap. Y'all just made each other tonight, Okay, cool, perfect,
y'all a group. Now right, we're gonna take this group,
packaged it up with some other joints, and then now
we're gonna get y'all a deal you know, at Epic Records.
That's kind of how it was. It was a deal
with a label called Raw Dope in Chicago, which which

(03:18):
had Crucial Conflict and some other acts, and so we
were kind of like the last of that era, and it.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Was it was.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
It was a strange deal, super strange. You're going, you're
doing like a we're supposed to be like a showcase
freestyle battle thing, and then like, oh yo, he nicey, nicey,
nicey nice y'all all in the group, and oh it
was another dude who wasn't even there. Now we put
him in the group where y'all went to the cribs.
So now it's for y'all. And this is another thing.
But shout out to Dlo Butcher blast my man not V.

(03:47):
I mean, from time to time, my man one of
the dudes na V. He's a he does a lot
of like stunt man stuff, stuntman stuff, so he's on
like some TV shows and acting and stuff like that.
But yeah, he was like the jah rule. D M
X of the group. Uh, the other dude DLO. He
was like the the smooth what was he like like

(04:08):
m C eight kind of like kind of a guy.
And then Butcher was like the I can't even define Butcher,
and I guess I was like the nerdy rapper backpack.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
All right. And so then after that solo, after that.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
Solo that me and my man Chill. That's why I
met my man Chill. He was one of the managers
of the group, and we started a company and then
it was a solo thing and it was supposed to
be Rockefeller Records.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
We was up there hanging out with Jay and I
saw you knocked on the door at the Peninsula.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
J opened the door and I was like, Yo, what up?
What up? Rap? Yo, You're nice? And I was like, oh,
Jay Z think I'm nice.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
So that that was the thing, and then offered you
a deal. Yeah yeah, okay did he said you're not
leaving this room.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
No, I ain't doing nothing like that. We had we
had a different relationship, but how was it. It was
like old Rockefeller could potentially be a thing, and then
it was like, Yo, let's just start our own company.
So me and my man Chill started first and fifteenth.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
So you met Chill through the group, yeah, the pack, yeah, okay,
and then y'all just really connected as far as management
and Okay.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
Chill was in the music business in different capacities before that,
so he was with Rodeol Records, he did some stuff
with Dre. There's a bunch of just different little connects
and pieces and stuff here. And then he had a
management company called On the Rocks, So we were managed
by On the Rocks. Part of half of the group
was managed by On the Rocks and which included me.
So we dissolved On the Rocks. We started first and fifteenth,
and then we got a deal at Arista. Okay, so

(05:38):
my first like solo look as Young Fiasco Lupe Fiasco
was Arista Records.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
And then what happened at Arista?

Speaker 3 (05:46):
Uh so the aristas where I really learned how to
become an artist. Right, It was a lot of like
you know, real proper an r N. Right, who was there?
It was a bunch of people. I feel like like
Q Tip was there, It's Camala Abstract who else that

(06:07):
I remember? I feel like the Vine Mill so like
KG like his whole piece was there. There's a ton
of people that bad Boy was in there, who else
was slowing around? Because this is the la read years
aristaf from like two thousand and one up until like

(06:28):
two thousand and four, and what.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
Type of deal was this? Was this a good deal
that you signed financially? Like did you get a nice
bonus or I mean assigning?

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Did you get all the things?

Speaker 3 (06:38):
We worked a little differently because we already had money
coming in, and then it was like this ain't money,
like this is just loans. So we always kept like
a production deal, label deal type arrangement. Whenever we did deals,
even with Atlantic, it was a label deal.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
So you had vers in fifteen thirteen established. Okay, I'm
just trying to under see the whole too.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
Yeah, it's far now, it's some, it's some. It's some
sneaky layers and things that are in there like most business,
but just straight up and down. It's like, we had
a production deal, so first and fifteen was doing all
the beats, responsible, putting album together, creative control, all that stuff.
But at the same time too, you know, we're on
a major label, you know, taking advantage of all the
things that major labels have to offer, and that's why

(07:21):
I said, like that part was really like the artist
development stage for me. Learn how to make records, learn
how to make pop records, learn how to make club records,
learning how to make because I'm going from being the
backpack rap dude in this random, put together group to
being like, now it's on you to kind of be
a solo artist and you need to be able to
make songs for this, make songs for that, make songs
for this.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
That's so interesting you say that, because back then people
really did feel like if you could battle rap, or
if you were a backpack rapper, you wouldn't be able
to make those type of songs that could be on
the radio.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
It was kind of like remember when they.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Used to do freestyle Fridays. Yeah, I one O six
and Park and all those battle rappers would never make
it to.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
Like because it's it's a it's a it's an art
form in itself. It's not just something that you just
pick up because you know how to rap, like just
because you know how to rap on me and how
to make songs and a thing with me. I knew
how to rap and make songs. I didn't know how
to perform, So my performance was a trash, like real bad,
and I had to kind of learn that. I kind
of learned how to perform when I was at Atlantic.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
That's good.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
I'm glad you did you say that, because I do
feel like sometimes I get let down when I go
to see artists perform. And I could love the album
and listen to it, but then I go see the
show and I'm like, this is so boring.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
There's a lot of and you know, I'm not naming
any names because they know, you know how in but
are as artists who know I'm talking about like established
artists who know like, oh, I probably will tell you like, yo,
I didn't know how to perform until this album, right right,
You're like, what, like, but your classic is this and
you did that and you did That's like yeah, but
I didn't really get my chops. And it really depends

(08:49):
on how exposed you are. I learned how to perform
because I was doing festivals and tours with like rock bands,
you know, and like different genres and different people. And
maybe that's because a kick push and the music I
was making it. I wasn't doing rec I wasn't doing
like like hip hop shows, right, you know, I was
doing like this random college show with this pop band

(09:12):
with such and such, because that's the lane and that's
where Atlantic kind of had us, and so I learned
how to entertain.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
Even when Kick Push came out, that was something different
because prior to that, I can't think of too many skateboarding,
you know, hip hop.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
There were some people deal Fun, Homo Sap, and there
was some folks who was like part of skate culture,
but not like no his this skateboard.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Song right exactly, because it wasn't that. You know, now
we see like Lil Wayne has skate parks and doing
things like that. But Kick Push it was early on.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
I would say with that, Yeah, it was it's like
you made a decision and it's really really real. It
was like my man Chill had caught a case we
called a case in O three, and so from O
three into like O four he was locked up, so
he got on it. Oh four, we lost our deal

(10:02):
or what happened at Ariston La Reed got fired and
so all of those acts had to go to JIB
or go to get distributed out. We wanted to get
dropped so we could go to Atlantic because jay Z
was supposed to be going to Atlantic. Mark Pitts was
supposed to be going to Atlantic, so we looked at
it like, oh, all our homies, we're just gonna go
over to Atlantic and be over there. And so when

(10:24):
we got to Chill, when Chill came home to fight
the case, it was like a decision. It was like, hey,
do we stick because my old records was all like
Hood street shit, little blends of this that, and the
third it wasn't It definitely wasn't like kick push nerdy backpacks.
I have records with like three six months of y'all
type of crazy stuff. And it was a decision of like, Yo,

(10:46):
what do we want to be Because now this album's
coming out, you're gonna be you know, there's no more
artist development. You know this is going to come out.
What's the first thing you want the world to know
outside of your mixtapes all these other things? People know
you can app you know you got a little buzz
hear that. And it was like a choice do you
make this like hood street music to entertain the hood

(11:07):
or do you just do something that's just completely out
the box. And we had kick Push versus this other record.
I was like, let's kick What was the other record
I can't remember. Some hustlers something hustlers with a Z.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
You just have a difficult time with those decisions because
they feel like once you go from that, from doing
like the Street records to doing something that's more pop
music or mainstream, it's hard to go back.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
You can't go back, right, That's true. That's facts. Once
you put that into the DNA, it's locked and you
you there. You can touch it, you can like you know,
reference it. But nah, you will always be known as this.
I'm always be known as a skateboard dude. I'm not
even known as like the lyrical dude.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
I think people know that skateboard people look at you
as the lyrical I'm.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
Take everybody, like outside of hip hop, outside or whatever,
just the like random person on the street, Oh that's
loop A, that's the skateboard dude.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Did that bother you or you were okay safe.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
I think some artists hate the fact that they made
that choice and now they're over here and now it's
like a it's a different genre, and sometimes it's not
maybe who you feel like you are.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
No, I mean, it's better than being a shot at dude, Like,
oh that's a shot at dude like he always getting
shot at, Like nah, but it's a beautiful I skateboarder,
I was a little kid. Everybody had a little interaction
with it. I'm not no pro skater. I never was
trying to do freestyle tricks or anything like that. But
it's a part of my kind of DNA and the

(12:33):
story itself about that reckon we can move on. But
whatever the story about that is. The song's not about skateboarding, right,
it's about somebody who grew up and happened to skateboard
and skateboarding, which they're kind of like way out or
their pathway, the thing that brought them a certain level
of joy. So it's still like a story. It just
happens to be about somebody who you know, loves skating

(12:54):
and things like that. But it could have been just
as easy about somebody who loves the streets, or somebody
who loves a woman, or somebody who loves you know,
what have you. But yeah, it does put you in
different spaces, in different places.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
Okay, all right, then Atlantic, things at first they seem cool, right,
like you felt like Atlantic was going to be behind you.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
They really wanted you to come there.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yeah, yeah, first, maybe there was like a there's always
the honeymoon period, right, there's always the honey Yeah, let's
have the meetings to do what. We just gave you
a check. But even stills weird because we didn't accept
a lot of money. So our deals were always like
we just need enough money to we honestly to not
even finish the record, Like were just taking this money

(13:36):
because it's like there. But like my first budget was
like a hundred thousand.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
You know that's crazy because people will have always said
to me, get as much money as you can upfront
because you don't know what's gonna end up happening. Right,
So sometimes artists, you know, you do get dropped and
then I don't know what happens if you still owe money,
you do, so it's.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
Like you get dropped, you're still old in that money.
So it's like that's to me, that's not money. Like
I would never take a loan deal, like never, like
we're good like any type of recoup never again. But
we never really did, so the relationship was kind of weird. Actually,
the money that we got, I'll just give you numbers.
The money that we got was like three hundred grand
and then a hundred for the record, the three hundred

(14:15):
advance was to bail Chill out of jail. So we
bailed Chill out of jail with the Atlantic.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
Advances for real, that went straight to County jail.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
Right. So the relationship has always been a little like
we're there. But the reason, the only reason we here
is because jay Z was supposed to come here and
he wound up going to death jail, and then because
Mark was supposed to be here, but he wound up
going to.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
Those decisions.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
But to Craig Kalman's credit, you know, he came and
visited Chill in jail and kind of you know, people
won't doing that. So you got the chairman of the
board coming to visit the homie. So it's it's like, okay, cool,
but it's still a weird relationship. And then it blew
up at Kick Push and.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
So at that point in time, Now I know that
story about Kick Push, and I know during that time,
that's when artists were signing three sixty deals, not your
sixties didn't come until till later to the cool.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
So two thousand and nine, okay, we got to We
got to Atlantic at two thousand and four, two thousand
and five. Food and Link came out in two thousand
and six into two thousand and six, so you just
started to have the inklings of what a three to
sixty deal in those two thousand and six, two thousand
and eight, two thousand and nine, and then after like
twenty eleven it became like standard.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
Right, And if you weren't in that, it was kind
of like, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
Leo was like, Yo, if you don't sign this deal
with not promoting any records, yeah, I was like, yo, nigga,
I got like six more albums to do. Like what
are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (15:42):
And I want to break that down in a second,
But first let's go back to this Cook Pushy suation,
because I saw you and Joe Butten talking about that
yeah live and how basically you had that song before.
Yeah right, So explain to me if people didn't see
that that was a situation where it's.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
Small and it may seem like you know, petty and
I know, maybe folks and fans and you know, members
of the community. I used to like big stories like
oh and then this big shit happened and the building
did this, and then you know, the street exploded and none.
But sometimes the most like pivotal and important moments in

(16:17):
somebody's career. All these really small things, like a small
thing happens, and that small thing is representative of this
wider problem that's about to become a bane in your
life for the next twenty years. And I was was
you know, first and fifteen Productions was always independent production company.
We weren't necessarily a record label because we didn't distribute right,

(16:38):
but we could get songs on the radio, you know,
we could do little things here and we had got
kick push on the radio in Chicago. So this is
pre you know, in the midst of Atlantic kind of
putting things together, this that and the third. So we
move in and groove in, shaking the bacon, doing what
we do, and the head of the radio station at

(16:59):
the time, the PD calls chill because you know, first
name basis cell phone, call me you need something, and
he was like, Yo, we just got a call from
Craig Kalman himself, the chairman of Atlantic Records, telling us
to slow down and on playing a record, like to
slow the spins down because we spin it up. So

(17:21):
we get through mix show, we get into rotation. Now
we're looking at power rotation. And at that point GCI,
the station in Chicago, was the big stick for the region,
so shout out to whatever Chicago was playing, you know
the rest you know, Milwaukee would play, and then Detroit
would play and in that region. So to get power

(17:42):
rotation meant like, oh, we one step away from being
national with a record independently without Atlantic doing anything. So
it's like, hey, once y'all tune in, Shout to Cres Bowl,
Shout to all the folks, the promotional folks at Atlantic.
It's like, okay, we've already built it up like this,
y'all just come in and knock it out the box,
take away the need to go. But that didn't happen.
To See was telling people to stop playing a record,

(18:02):
so he didn't think we would know. Come we have
a meeting at the label. I wasn't there, and uh,
he's talking something, you know, because again the honeymoon's over now, right,
you got the money we built you out of jail.
What you do for us now? And I was like, okay,
he said something, and Chill was like, yo, why don't

(18:24):
you tell him how you stopped playing them? And couldn't
nobody believe it? He was like what he was like, yeah,
like your Man's and map Seltom a man gene deal
for you. Other folks they stood up, was like yo,
like why would you do that? Why would you injure
a record like that? Right? And his excuse was like, yo,
I felt we weren't ready, you know about la dah.

(18:45):
But then it becomes again, that's that small thing where
people like, yeah, so somebody called because they weren't ready.
We could rationalize that, but it was it was a
symptom of a wider problem that Atlantic has. That not
anymore because that whole regime is gone, But it was
we're not signing you for you. We're not signing you

(19:05):
for you and your records. That's just proof for us
that when we send you into the studio with our records,
you're gonna be able to perform. Right. We're not interested
in your story and your life and your creative this
and that that. Then the third were just interested in
knowing that you're able to rap and perform or sing
or do whatever. Now that just got you up to here.

(19:26):
Now we need these big records, right, and you think like, okay, cool,
we need these big records. What you would okay, cool,
we can make big records if it's just about big
records because you know, superstars all of us, right, or
we can we know how to make big pop records.
I learned how to do that at Arista. No no, no, no,
we need. When we talk about big records, we talk

(19:47):
about records that are not only going to be distributed
and released through Atlantic, but also all the publishing is
owned by Wanna Chapel. The sample that you're going to
sample the record from is owned by Wanna Chapel. Cattle,
the songwriters who wrote the chorus are signed to Warner Chapel.
Warner Chapel is owned by Craig Callman and uh, what's

(20:10):
the other kid's name, I can't even think of this.
His name Mike Caron. Like they have actual personal investment
in this thing, the big pop records, and only because
only the only the big pop records that they have
at least three or four entry ways of finance into.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
Okay, So they want to keep everything in house, so
that the money circulating in house.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
So it's like if you came up to the labels
like yo, I got this song that I wrote that
I think would be great for Pink, right, they're like, oh,
that's that's cool. You know, look, why don't you sign
a ten song deal with us?

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (20:48):
Right, they wouldn't just say, Yo, that's dope, keep doing it.
You know, here's a check for that one record. You
get a little published and keep it moving, Like nah,
we need to own everything that you do from now on.
We need to own all the rights who else potentially
could have on it, We need to sign them. And
so by the time it gets to me, it's all
they've already they're triple dipping. And that was just it's

(21:09):
a it's genius business, but it's a it's a terrible
way to treat artists, right.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
It's not a creative business. It's a business.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
It's a business business, right, because in that it's like
your records whatever, we're not interested in your records, even
though they could be just as good or even better
or have more potential. And then that flip is and
that this is why I have no sympathy for them
or anything like that. And I tell artists because I
think it's important to let the artistic community know, like,
this is what you're really dealing with. I'm not making
this up. I'm not gasing anything. And I'll stand on

(21:38):
this in the court of law and just say the
same thing. You know. Leo was like, Yo, if you
don't sign this through sixty deal, we're not promoting your records.
Not only are we not promoting your records, we're not
promoting even the records that we give you.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Right.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
I've heard that from artists if you don't sign a
three sixty deal, because they were artists who are already signed,
and then they want you to then rework your deal
to make it sixty deal.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
So they're getting money from merch, they're getting money.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
From torn now.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yeah, streaming is happening now, so that's a whole nother situation.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
They're invested in the streaming companies that but just personally
like they got their own personal investment into it because.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
They're not making as much.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
So they're like, if we're not going to we rather
put our all into another artist who's got a three
sixty deal than to an artist who doesn't and that
has his own situation, and it's just we're just doing
distribution that doesn't really make us any money.

Speaker 3 (22:26):
It makes them a ton of money. Yeah, I mean
they got still got ton they still got a ton
of catalog. You still got all this, but but you're
going to spend that same amount of money managing it.
And that's what I told them, Like, Yo, let's let's
be business for real. I'm a really intelligent guy right
street side, business side, however you want to play it.
Let's be honest. You don't do this, Like you're not
known to sell merch, you're not known to book. Uta

(22:47):
is right across the street, right, I'm signed the CIA,
I'm signed to William Morris. Like, y'all do not do
agency work. So now you're trying to be an agency,
but you're still gonna have to spend money to build
that part of your business. So you you're gonna wind
up break even right to keep it a buck And
at the end of the day, you're going to own
the most valuable thing in this whole situation. Still, the
most valuable thing in any situation is the masters, right,

(23:10):
so I asked for. When Leo said that to me,
I was like, cool, I didn't like that. Wow. I
was like, okay, cool, Okay, I'm gonna need some collateral.
Won't you give me my masters? I'm only two albums in, right,
I don't mind. As a matter of fact, I'll help
you build out the three sixty piece at least when
it comes to fashion, because I know folks in the
fashion world up and down the chain, and then you

(23:32):
could really tailor make these these your merch deals to
the artists and do it through the whole system, like
fully vertically integrated through the whole system, from the designer
to the retail, to the pop up, to the manufacturing,
to the distribution to the whole to fulfillment the whole piece.
And it was kind of like, nah, we got a
guy that can do that. And it's like, well, I

(23:53):
don't trust that. What is that profile? Let me see
that piece because you're asking me to sign into six
different businesses now, right, and the same level.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Who's the guy?

Speaker 3 (24:00):
Yeah, Like who is that? Who's gonna do who's gonna
be booking shows? You know, who's gonna be running sponsorships? Right?
Who's gonna be I get sinks and you know, pitching
things to TV shows and movies and stuff like that.
But I'm talking about like what's this random little speaking engagement,
Like who's going to be in charge of doing that?
It can't be Crespo, Like who you're gonna hire, but

(24:21):
then you gotta hire somebody. So now you're saying like, oh,
we're gonna make X amount of dollars, but you're finish
spend another X amount of dollars building that up. So
they had they had to miss me with the bullshit.
It was like, give this to dude, to give this
to WLD girl, you know, all blessings, but you're not
finna do that to me. So I didn't sign, and
my career was like goodbye.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
So my career ended at the at Lasers.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
All right, So then you did Las Wow.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
That's wild though, but why not also because clearly you
wanted to get off the label at that at that point, right.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
It was when when when Leo told me that, I
was like, then there's nothing else to do here, right,
Like this is all from this point I can get
through Craig doing his little random shenanigans with songs and
double dipping and wanna chapel only release it like they
went out and bought, They went out and bought. I

(25:14):
give it to you like this. So kick Push is
a sample. It's a very very rare, unique sample from
that was released on some song in the Philippines back
in whatever, right, the local kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
So you got it cleared.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
The only reason that we have that sample is because
the producer soundtrack is Filipino and it's part of his
kind of just he heard that song coming up as
a kid, was dad playing it? But we never heard
that back it before ever, non philip and shouting about Flipinos.
But like just that's not in the lu. So the
only reason it because it has this very regional piece soundtrack,

(25:53):
does it? We do the record? People love it pops
off atlantic part of so you think like, okay, Craig
is trying to slow the record down, Like why why'd
you try to slow a record down? Nobody? That doesn't
make any sense. It's popping. It's hard to get records
place at radio. It's a lot of competition. Fifties right here,
Little Wayne's right here, right here, here's the little record
that could trying to make it through. Why would you

(26:14):
do that, right? Why would you do that? Why would
the chairman of this public company make that decision so
detailed for him himself to call this little radio station
in Chicago to tell him to stop playing this record
before it goes national? Because at the same time that
they were doing that, they were flying somebody to the
Philippines to find this lady to buy the sample.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
That's dedication.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
That's what they did. They flew somebody to the Philippines
to find the person, and they bought the rights to
the record, so they own the kick Push sample.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
So they were making money anyway off of it. But
they were waiting to get the sample.

Speaker 3 (26:52):
Didn't go national yet because we don't own the record yet.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Now, when they called to ask GCI to slow it down,
does the program direct say yes or because you guys
have your own relationship, but he has to make a decision,
right because the artist.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
It's other artists, and it's other things, and there's other
benefits to keeping your relationship. And who are we, right,
we in the city. We're gonna confine you, right, but
we're not gonna do that. So but at the end
of the day, that's the only thing you really got
to worry about with us. But with them, you gotta
worry about them blacklisting you from this artist if they
want to come perform at your birthday, summer bash, celebration,

(27:29):
content artists and they can't get none of our artists.
You can't do this, you can't do that, And so
it's genius business as a business, there are no rules.
Whatever I need to do, kidnap your grandmother, fine, p real, right.
But if we're trying to create a relationship like friends
and artists and creativity, nothing, So I think I just

(27:50):
wasn't built for that part because I was like, I
just came from the streets. I don't want to go
back to the streets. That's case we go back to
the streets.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
Well, how did you end up getting off Atlantic?

Speaker 4 (27:57):
Finally, Anonymous, the Hacker group.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
We was on my fifth album. It was on my
fifth album. It was called Tatsuo on Youth and same thing.
Did a bunch of records? Did it? Like beat them
to the punch, knowing that y'all gonna come with all
these big, huge, big pop records with these big acts
and these gigantic hooks. Let me win to them first,
give me all your records. Let's just get this out

(28:29):
the way, because you're finna ruin this fucking album. If
I'm trying to put this album together the way I
want to do it, I know you're gonna come in
with these big ass records that ain't got nothing to
do with the concept of the theme, but none of
that because you don't really care. Okay, cool, let's get
that out the way and I'll build the album after
I have your records out the way. And then it

(28:50):
was like, they send me their records, they send me
their records to their records, and then it got into
this weird feedback loop was like, we don't like that record.
I'm like, is your record? You gave it to me, Like, well,
you know, we don't like it anymore. We want you
to do this. I'm not doing that. So then it
became like, well, you know, we might not put it out.
Same conversation. I was like, all right, well then if
that's the case, i'm gonna just go back and just

(29:12):
make a nine minute record of straight bars, which is
what Mirror was. I'm gonna pull off all of this
pop shit, this big radio shit. I'm gonna just make
a album with a bunch of dope ass records. But
this is this is happening prior to like what I'm
about to say, how I got off the label. So

(29:34):
we did same bullshit, send me your records. Now you
don't like your records. We finished. I'm not Finna spend
nine months chasing Lady Ganga. I'm not gonna do that, right,
Anonymous to hack. So I'm like, hey, y'all my fans
with fans, yo, you know album release date? What's the
release date? I don't know what all ship, but they

(29:55):
know now. So now the fans know, they like, Yo,
We've been through this, back three albums. Every album is
this release date? Shenanigan's okay. Cool. Some of my fans
happened to be computer hackers by the name of Anonymous, right,
So Anonymous if folks don't know, they're like the world's
anonymous computer hacker. They attack whole countries. They attacked the KKK,
they you know, did all types of crazy stuff North Korea.

(30:18):
Like they're wild right there. And it just happened to
be fans of Lube Fiasco because of Occupy Wall Street, Right,
I raised some money for Occupy Wall Street, did some
took some generators food all of different camps around the
country because I believed in it, right, money out of politics.
I believed in that. So those kids behind that, And now,

(30:39):
mind you, I don't know who who these people are.
They're anonymous, right, so I don't know who they are.
I didn't ask them to do anything, but once it
became like hinted like there's no release date for tatsu
On Youth. They at the time they were attacking. And
when I said attacking, like cyber attacking like North Korea
or something like that in North Korean government, and like

(31:00):
the klueplus Klan, right, doxing all the members of the
klueplusz Klan, right, because you have people in Atlanta that's
like police chiefs or whatever that are like members of
the Cluelus Clan. Not Atlanta, but like somewhere of random
town in Georgia. This dude's the police chief and just
happened to be the Grand Wizard of the Kruplus Clan.
So they was like, okay, pauls. Paul's that action. This

(31:21):
is a hate Atlantic Records because usually know how they
do the thingk Atlantic to do with the beef Thedata mask.
For real, Atlantic Records, you have a history of blah
blah blah with your artist. If you do not give
Lupe Fiasco a release date within twenty four hours for
his album, We're going to dos and cyber attack Atlantic Records,

(31:43):
Warner Music and all of your subsidiary companies, employees and everyone.
Now I got real family, like see the family at Atlantic, right,
But they're like, we fin the docks everyone everyone DDoS attack,
We're can shut down your servers, the whole shit. You
got twenty four hours and like twenty four I was
like it was like a release date, like this put
our release date and asked me what did I want

(32:04):
to do? And I'm gonna keep it up? And it
was like, yo, loop, I was like, I got ship
to do with this? What what Loupe? What's going on?
I was like, fuck them, don't get done. Why would
you submit to that? Right? Just take do whatever it
needs to do. Right, So they put out a release date.
Julie Greenwall called me, got in touch with Chill. It

(32:25):
was like yo, not only that, here's the release date,
but then also here's your release date.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Oh wow, you gotta go.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
You gotta get up, you gotta get about it.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Here was that was that good news? Release date?

Speaker 3 (32:42):
I mean absolutely absolutely that that. That period of the
time at Atlantic was very dark for me, suicidal, like
I want to hurt people. Like it was bad.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
It was real bad, because yeah, I mean that's crazy.
So you really felt like because you were trapped.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
Is yeah, yeah, yeah, I was trapped. I couldn't do it,
and you can't do nothing. It's like you want to
put people in the trunk, you know, for real, and
it's like you can't do that. You can't do that.
It deserves it, you know, but I don't. I don't
want to go to jail for this.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
No, definitely like this stupid. And during this time, that's
when Chill got was also locked up.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
You still locked up, shouldn't shouldn't get out until last year?

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, yeah, he got out last year.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
But so he was locked up, locked up, he couldn't.
His hands are tied. I'm going crazy. It took some
some folks at the label who actually lost their jobs
because they came to my defense to be like, yo,
come here, let me take you out of that. Put
you in this space. I can relate to what's going on,
but don't hurt yourself and don't hurt nobody else, you know.

(33:46):
And so for me, it was just kind of like
shot the big U. I remember Big big U hit
me up in the midst all this and was like yo,
out the blue. He's like, yo, we you know, we Muslims,
we men we stand on the things that we sign.
So you sign this contract with these people, finish it,

(34:06):
stick to your word, don't let them take you off
of that. And so big U was actually one of
the pieces in addition to kind of the soft sensitive
stuff that I needed. Like he was like, is this
street nigga I respect? Who was like, when we put
our name on some whether it's fucked up or not,
finish it. So I had down finished it with the
expectation that I was just going to be on Atlantic

(34:27):
until we were done.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
You know that's so true, because I think in this business,
no matter what, you'll sign a contract somewhere, whether it's
a record deal, a management contract, or whatever kind of contract,
there's always contracts you'll sign that you wish you wouldn't have,
and you might spend more money getting sued, or you
might spend money trying to get out of it, or
you might try to ignore it and then have other issues.
But that is kind of good advice to just finish

(34:51):
out the contract if you have to, because it caused
you way more problems if you try to go around
it or do whatever.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Unless you can go reason with somebody. I'm not an
easy thing. To do either.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
I absorbed that the reason we signed it was to
get Chill out of jail, and so I have no regrets.
I do that a thousand times. You know. That was
the goal to get my man out. And so that's
what we did.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
And there was a period of time that you also
were like I retired.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
Yeah, I retired a bunch of times. I mean, you can't,
because it is just saying you can't. You can't, you can't,
you can't, I can't. I've done something like I've done
some things recently even now, like that not Chills home
was able to kind of like not be so much

(35:35):
of a soldier, not be so much of like the
one man on me, and start to kind of like
like disengage from things that actually would tear me up.
So like social media was able to disengage from that
that somebody who handles and runs that, I guess somebody
who runs this for me. So now it's like I
told Chill, like listen, when you come home, all I
want to do, I want you to come take care
of my cars, because I got a bunch of cars

(35:57):
that's just sitting resting in my garage. Help me with
these cars and all I want to do is wrap.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
I want to be an artist.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
I just want to rap, right, But you need somebody
that you can trust, that can handle the business. So
he just came home last year. So how have things
changed for you since that happened? Because the new album
samuraise out right now too, and we'll talk about that
in a second. I know we've been talking about a
whole bunch of other things. But how did things change
when he came home?

Speaker 2 (36:21):
That was what sixteen years?

Speaker 3 (36:23):
He's in prison for like seventeen seventeen years, and then
that was that period of time where he was in
the county for like a year when we was right
in the heart of our deal with Arista, So eighteen
and whatever you want to call it. But then's somebody
I met when I was like seventeen, you know, wanted
to rap and built thingil built this structure around me

(36:45):
to achieve that goal for me, you know. So to me,
he's like family, father figure, that whole piece. And then
to kind of lose that right at the height, like
so superstar children in jail, you know. So now I'm
experiencing all this fame fortunate, but then all of the
dirty stuff that's that's building up under the scene, right right,
But all of the other beautiful stuff that's happening too.

(37:06):
But I'm like, I'm like by myself, you know, and
then trying to manage all that stuff. So an he
was shorn story short. For him to be home, it
was just kind of like a relief, you know, like
I ain't got to work but we But at the
same time too, he managing stuff over the phone, like
but he's still having meetings, business meeting and stuff like that,
trying to said album. So he's signed executive producing the

(37:28):
album he's never heard, right, but to keep his mind occupied,
to keep him feeling like he got something to do.
So when he and he did have something to do.
So when he come home, you know, it was beautiful.
He was in the studio. We got a big studio
in Chicago that he built when he's in jail, and
we just kind of like vibing, like.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Like like day one, you know, I know, he came
home and was like, Chicago has changed.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
They ain't changed, nah, the only thing has changed. He
don't know, use his phones, that's it. Don't use a
small phone.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
I was I did this story today about Chicago according
to Conde Nass Traveler. They said it's the number one
big city in the United States, like for people to visit.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
Yeah, it's a vibe. You know, we got a lot
of I see all sides of it, you know, and
I grew up all in all different parts of the city.
So it's dead. You got a nice little lake situation,
a nice park on the boats today, nice little vintage
building situations. People are nice.

Speaker 4 (38:25):
It's clean in certain parts, right yeah, yeah, even in
the trenches still kind.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
Of to Chicago is like a clean New York. That's
how I look at Chicago.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
I'll take that.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
It's like a clean New York to me. Take that
and a little Windyer.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
It's like a it's like a really really good Jersey city.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Okay, okay, I can see that. We're better shopping, yeah,
you know, more to do, step up. Okay, all right,
So now you have samur right, and congratulations on that.
And I know the whole inspiration behind that was not
that it's based on Amy Whitehouse, but just a quote
that you heard from her and her documentary. Yeah yeah,
all right, So explain that for for everyone to.

Speaker 3 (39:04):
Hear during the pandemic was watching I think it's pandemic times.
A big documentary fan, watch a lot of our documentaries
this that, So whenever I'll pass on a ton of movies,
if a doc comes.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
Up that's one of my favorite, I'll give it a
little peak.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
So hers came up, of course, A big fan of
her music, and so I'm watching it. But it shows
the other side, and you know, all artists relate to that,
even if it's not a substance thing, even if it's
not like there's just something about being in the life
of an artist struggling, trying to create, get your music out,
do all your stuff, or you face a lot of

(39:39):
those things. How you cope with it in different ways, right,
But when she said that, you know, left a voicemail
for salam Remy and was like, yo, you know, keep
coming to Wu Tang, to keep coming to these battle wraps.
You know, if you want a battle come come give
me a cute because I'm a samurai. It was like, yo, bang,
I love it. You know that that gift with h

(40:01):
Leonardo DiCaprio where he snaps and points at the TV.
I don't know what movie they took it from, might
be from Wolf of Wall Street, but He's like, Yo,
that's that's how it was like on the couch, like, yo,
what if Amy one House was a battle rapper? Was
what did that look like? What does that feel like?
And so initially just started as like taking that that
what she said, I got these really neat uh very

(40:22):
beautiful betifully very very beautifully alliterated a little battle raps,
and so like, oh, I'm gonna just take that stock,
make a chorus out of that, and just build like
a little portrait of her, you know. And so you
just got this one song, and then that turns into
like what she was a battle rapper? You know, how
she get up powers, how she learned how to rap?
So then you tell it, now that's another song. Right

(40:43):
then it's like, well who does she battle? Then that's
like did you wins? And it actually it actually was
building a little project, a little side thing during the pandemic,
and Chill called me and was like, hey, I need
an album, like for what you in jail? Like what
are you gonna do with it? She's like, na, we
need we need an album. I was like, all right, cool,
I'm working on this thing right now. You know. It's

(41:04):
a little project right here, and I don't know if
it's when you're explaining it, it's just weird to somebody, like, yeah,
what if Amy Winehouse was a battle rapper?

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Which you think about that and when you come up
with concepts, because you always have different concepts for your projects.
But I think that's what works, right because storytelling is
so important to me.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
Yeah. Yeah, even if the music that makes up that
narrative is a little suspect, you know, there's something about
having a concept that's just intriguing and will carry the music,
you know, so some of it's like a little cheat
code when you do that. But he was like, nah,
I don't, let's not know. He's like whatever with that, Yeah,
not that way. I need something else, And I did.

(41:42):
I put Samurai to the side and I did drill
music and Zion for him and did done like three days,
and then then kind of like you go off into
promoting that doing that. And then when he came home,
I played like all of the little projects and stuff
that I've been working on since he been away, and
I was like, this is this one piece the summer,
I think, and it was unfinished. So he started listening

(42:04):
to it. He's like, yo, that's let's do that. I
was like, Nigga, that's the one I played to jail.
He's like, nah, that somebody else. So we finished it
and he actually properly executive produced that. When he arranged it,
did the whole thing, mixed it down, finished the records,
and was like, we're done. Because I was gonna do
more records.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
So you had all kinds of plans, like to even
have a woman do it and maybe write someone else perform.

Speaker 3 (42:27):
There's a couple of female cees I know that. I
was like, maybe I could get them to do it.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Who would you have thought of.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
There's a woman by the name of Naira. There's another
MC c Blue I t she just went to college,
young MC. I was thinking maybe she should do it.
But it was like, like, what's the what's the optimal
way to do this? Right? Should it be a female
MC doing the battle parts? Maybe I'm just like narrating,
but when it's a part where it becomes like battling,
like a female MC does it. I was thinking about

(42:55):
just hiring like a voice actress to kind of do it.
But yeah, but Chill was like, no, we're done. We're done.
Homes like relax and so here you are. Now we're
doing how It's going, been out like maybe two months,
three months, very very good reviews, which is dope. We're
doing a tour now of the record.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
Oh yeah, I said, you just kicked off the tour
in New York. It's the first day.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
We got two more months, so we're gonna hit the US.
Last shows in LA November twenty fifth.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
Where do you think is is Chicago the place when
you go perform there that it goes like people come
out the craziest or where would you say that is?

Speaker 3 (43:29):
I mean, I got a huge fan base in New York. Yeah, right,
So New York always turns up. La always turns up.
It's really the major cities, but you'd be surprised at
certain little pockets, you know where people kind of pull
up Denver, you know, different spots, but the little major cities.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Because I could see this, maybe you should be writing
plays and things like that.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
I did write a play. I wrote a musical. I
was secretly coming back and forth to New York over
the past couple of years at the at the Armory. Okay,
so shout to Rebecca Tuchman when knowledge and my man
Will Wells. So we sat and started to flesh out
a musical based around Drogout's wave.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Oh wow, that'd be amazing. Yeah, so that's gonna happen.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
The first draft is done.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
I love that. I'm going to pray so time, and
I feel like we need more of that.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
And I can see the storytelling that you do that
could play out like you know, started off on off
Broadway and then get it to Broadway, just kind of
like how House Kitchen did. Yeah, I could see something
like that, and that'd be amazing to be able to see.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
We'll see if we get the green light. But the
draft is done, and yes, so I've done that.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Do you write for other people?

Speaker 3 (44:38):
I try not to, so no, no, I don't. There's
nothing that could really point to us. I wrote that,
but I try not to. You know, I think everybody
should tell their own story, okay to be honest, but
if I need to, I'm not a verse to it.
But Nah.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Another thing that you've been doing that's fascinating to me
is teaching at MIT. Yeah, and I say, you have
a course that you did two years. I know you're
trying to that's something more maybe permanent.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
Well, yeah, they offered me I'm literally sitting on a
contract on my phone now that I'm posted to sign
for another three years there. So I spent two years
teaching being a visiting scholar with the MCL.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
Program Rap Theory and Practice.

Speaker 3 (45:16):
Rap Theory and Practice is named the class.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
I like that because imagine you take a class like that.
I remember in college I took screenwriting and then at
the end you can have a whole script. And so
these kids can take rap theory and then the other
part that's practice and actually have an album.

Speaker 3 (45:30):
Oh they do. So at the end they'll have the
first first version of the class, which is a bigger
class a lot of students. They have to do like
a seven song EP, so that was the final project.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
That's a big deal because that's something they can take
and action.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
Yeah okay, but short because it was like, I'm not
going to listen to like twenty albums, Like I'm not
gonna do that.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
Anybody good enough that you would want to get them
a deal?

Speaker 3 (45:50):
Oh absolutely. That's folks who take the class who are
already like releasing music. And then there's other other cats
who are grass students. So if it's MIT course, but
it's cross registers, so if you're a Harvard student, you
can take the class mass Art Welzy and I forgot
what the other school is Apologize but anyway, so you know,

(46:12):
MIT students kind of get privileged on it, and then
it's for undergrads and grad students. So there's some grad
students who are like really could be signed to rhyme sayers,
I can't guess, I just raped when it come to
first fifteen, but they like super talented. And then way
we structure the class. You know, you're learning about physics,

(46:32):
you learn about physiology, you learn about all the things
that you would expect from a class at MIT, even
though it's in the Humanities department, but it's rich as deep.
They did this this class this year was a smaller
class on purpose because it's twenty five people. It's like
a lot to do, you know, everybody doing the EP
it was like a little crazy. But they did a
freestyle competition. They did a eel dub freestyle competition. We

(46:52):
had some of the folks from End of the Week
come out and judge it. So they did that and
then they did a recital with the Jazz Ensemble at MIT.
So they did a big performance which went over like
Gangbusters that they really love, and then they did the
different little works and projects, and then some people still
did that EP. So it's dope.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
It's dope to see that everybody want to be in
that class.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
It's very popular. It's very popular. Yes.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Is it wild to you that you can say something
and like critique something and then it turns into a
whole other snowball situation.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Because it's you.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
Yeah, but you've got to be careful, you know. It's
it's a responsibility, you know, So it can go both ways.
I think that some people who like I tell them like,
you don't need to take my class, right, and then
people that do manage to get into my class. I
try and have a range.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
I'm talking about on social media.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
You oh, we're jumping off into social media.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
We segued into that. You know, how many times do
you start to type something in there? How many times
do you start to type something and then delete it?
Does that happen to you a lot?

Speaker 3 (47:50):
I'm not on social media anymore.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Okay, that's that.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
That's that, just so we're clear, so everybody knows you didn't.
I'm not I peek in I lerk that we have
a team now like I should have had, you know,
ten years ago. I talk about, Hey, I want to
talk about this, let's do this. But I mean, I
have a reputation for being the guy with the bad

(48:15):
takes at the wrong time, right, and I don't know
how to manage certain situations very well. I have a
resting bitch face, and so you you you mix all
that together and it just becomes like I hate Loupe Fiasco,

(48:36):
like I hate him, like I love his music, and
I like kick push and skateboard, but I dislike this
dude because.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
He said, maybe you embraced being the heel.

Speaker 3 (48:46):
But no, I don't. I'll pull this back. I do
think I'm a villain right for various reasons, but not
for the reasons that people think.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
Okay, what are the reasons that you are?

Speaker 3 (48:57):
I'm a I can't get into that right now, knocking
on this door and subpoena in this interview right here. No,
but it's really just like I've seen a lot of
terrible things, you know, And I've been around a lot
of terrible people who get away with shit, Scott Free,
you know, I've seen a lot of people get injured

(49:19):
and a lot of people get, you know, mentally and
spiritually destroyed around people who don't be knowing what the
fuck they be talking about. You know. So I see
dudes with all of the bells and whistles, and they
got the backdrop, and they got the mic and the
whole thing and the followers and twenty thousand people in
the room and blah blah, blah blah, and for three

(49:40):
straight hours talk about something that they have is zero
idea about what it is. They're just giving their opinion, right,
and they're not really giving you the three sixty opinion,
no pun intended of like all of the I think
a responsible critic of society or responsible voice, whatever culture

(50:01):
it is, should it at least be informed to understand
that the facts or the things that they're saying are wrong,
you know, or that there's a there's a context to
it that you're that you're either leaving out for the
sake of this particular audience that you're trying to raise,
you're trying to fuck somebody, or you're trying to get
some money from somebody. And I know the rules change

(50:21):
when it happens, so I have to I'll be recognizing, like, oh,
this ain't what that is, like this dude trying to
make money, this girl trying to make some money. This
person's trying to do this, so that this is just
a means to an end for them. And the flip
side of that is, I've been around people that are
so authentic, that are so real that I can tell
the difference almost instantly, right, And I'm sitting in the

(50:43):
spot where as an artist, the definition of the role
of artists is supposed to play in a spokesperson in
society is supposed to you supposed to go along with
what the fuck we say? Right, Like you just supposed
to tow the party line, right, You not posed to
We had a crazy conversation in the car. We're not

(51:04):
gonna do it, I know, but they know they know.
So we having a conversation in the car where it's
like something is said, that's wild, extra wild, right, but
it's true.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
But if we ever said, that's over with, okay.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
So you got to sit there in a certain amount
of silence. But also you talk to hundreds of thousands
and millions of people, but you got to be silent
and be honest. So it rips me apart.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
So that this music business is like in shambles right now,
with so many things and there's a lot going on,
I feel like every day is something else.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
No, I mean certain people are timing out, certain contracts
are coming up the Atlantic people are trying to make
and people are making connections that are like, No, that's
not why dudes stepped down.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
That was the timing of it was already happening.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
Yeah, but I do think technology took a bite out
of them. But this is what you gotta understand. They
own Spotify, the label. Dudes who are stepping down, they
already had, they got shares of the company. So for them,
they're winning. Got to look at us like, this wasn't

(52:18):
a community effort. This was a Craig Couman effort. This
was for me personally to extract as much value out
of my situation as I possibly could. And you all
are just tools in that space, right, I'm the body
your tools. That's a Mason reference for people out there
who want to throw that out there. Everybody else is
just a tool. Once you realize that and you think, like,

(52:41):
is it in shambles? It was always in shambles.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
It was kind of set up to somebody, Yeah, it was.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
Set up to it was set up to extract value
as an outpost. Colonially extract value from this place as
much as we can, and then once the ecosystem starts
to collapse, right, it's unsustainable to pull water out of
the ground now because now you got these sinkholes, right,
so we pulled all the water out. The ground is

(53:08):
literally starting to collapse. We're gonna move on to something else.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
And you know it's good for you right now this time,
I think because you have access to be able to
do things how you want to do it, where you
don't need to be part of that machine, so you
can do what you need to do.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
I was in that machine, but it didn't want me,
like you in the machine, and it don't want to
put out your records. So it's like, what's the point
you need your help? But to your point? To your point,
like yes, when it's all said and done, I'm in
a very beautiful place, right, I get to be around
my friends in music. I get to see like I
was with Robert Glass for last night in the experiment.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
I saw and him posting you.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
And I was in the crowd right, and it was
it was like this is dope, Like this is this
is what music is. Like Robert can go fill up
a stadium for real, right, but he's at the Blue
Note for the next like thirty days performing for just
as many people as Blue Nok and Hole, right, And
he's just up there doing what he does, which is
played piano and make beautiful music. And I think at

(54:06):
the end of the day, to be able to say, like, man,
I'm able to go see my friends play beautiful music.
I can jump on the train and go from Brooklyn
to downtown and be chilling, right, but still be able
to if I wanted to take that train to JFK
and be in Tokyo tonight, you know, vibing in the

(54:27):
club with my homies with the finest of the finest chilling,
and then if I needed a Rose Royce to come
pick me up, I could do that. Watch Freedom that
I'm listen. Thank you Leo, thank you Craig you know,
thank you Atlantic Records, thank you Anonymous, thank my fans,
thank you Angela, thank every like, thank you all. Because
at the end of the day it kind of coalesced

(54:47):
into having, like I think at this point, to this point,
a beautiful life.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
All right, Well, listen, thank you so much for coming through.
The tour is happening right now.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
I know.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
Also, you are selling limited editions at each stop.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
Right of a mixed Yeah ten, it's I gotta funny part.
I gotta go back to the hotel and put together.
It's not even done. I gotta do some free announcement
in advance. But it's happening, though. But what do you expect.
You're going on like six songs.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
Relax, all right, so people can get it right, you
have to buy one hundred The first people to buy
a hundred dollars worth of mercy write this.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
I don't know that you go along.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
I'm not. I'm not. I'm making a mixtape up as
that go along. But hundred dollars, Spende, hundred dolls of
the merged booth we got. We got ten copies of
the mixtape in each city. Hopefully there's only so many physicals,
so once the physicals are going, it's gonna go to
the digitals. We might do like a little mix five
and five. But anyway, Spende hundred dollars, get get a mixtape,
get some unreleased Loop A records, get some new records,
get some remixes, right, get some other little banter and

(55:43):
every whatever else I feel like I need to throw
in there. But by the time we get to the
end of it, so it's probably gonna be like one
hundred songs and freestyles and all type of stuff on that.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
But anyway, but that's great. See, we gotta make sure
we talk about all the things too.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
All right, well, thank you lip.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
If you asking for coming through, Samurai is available right now,
make sure you check that out.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
The two is happening right.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
Now, Hertford, Philly, Boston, for Collins, Denver, all these stuffs.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
Make sure you guys check it up, of course.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Yeah, Norfolk, San Francisco, La, Cleveland, Columbus, all the places.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
It's way up, way up,