2 Chainz & Omar Epps on 'Red Clay' Movie, Addiction, Fatherhood & Healing

2 Chainz and Omar Epps join Angie Martinez to talk about their new short film, ‘Red Clay,’ that premiered at the Atlanta Film Festival. The film is based on 2 Chainz’s life, including his upbringing in Atlanta and his mother’s past addiction. 2 Chainz and Omar talk about marriage and fatherhood, and how they’ve navigated putting together healthy families. Angie then asks them some In Real Life questions.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
For more episodes, you know to do subscribe like comments
and we'll see you on the next IRL podcast. So
today is a special episode. We are talking to two icons,
two men who have two different paths, one powerful truth.
Omar Epps, of course, is an actor, author, storyteller. We've
seen his face in some of the most iconic movies
of all time. And of course two Chains is a

(00:26):
Grammy winning artist, businessman who's built an empire without ever
losing his authenticity. Together, they are the co writers and
producers on the new short film. It's called Red Clay.
And welcome to IRL gentlemen.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
We should start with the movie on the purpose that
brought you guys together for this project?

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Whose idea? Where did it come from?

Speaker 2 (00:48):
So this short film called Red Clay is a story
that's about me that I've never talked about in an
interview with you or anyone else. I've never necessarily put
it in my music, and it was hard for me
to even find someone to help me bring it to
fruitition because I wanted it to be tasteful art wise.
But you know, it does have its dark side to.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
It, and there's a vulnerability that comes.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
It's almost borderline embarrassing for me too, you know, but
my mom's here now and it's a story about you know,
addiction and relationship between mother and son.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Trying to think of the line. There was a line
when I was watching it at the end of the movie.
I'm like, that line is like sums up so many
people's experiences.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
It was like, we don't have no other choice.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Basically something was happening in the film where one kid
says to the other, you know you can't do that.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
We can't do this.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
This is not and he says, what other choice do
we have? Like, what other choice?

Speaker 3 (01:41):
And just that small line.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
When you think about people's lives and the decisions they make,
people especially who get in trouble, who from the outside
other people say, make questionable.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Decisions, a bonehead or something. But I'm a firm believer
of like not judging. I mean, it's easy with social
media to judge, like why would someone do that day
every day? I mean I use this example all the
time because you know, people would think, like, man, you
glorify you know, selling the trapping or whatever that is
as even a music genre now. But I explained this

(02:12):
to everyone that I talked to that if I was
born in Hawaii, I would be a great surfer, right.
And if I was born in Denver, Colorado, I'd be
good at skiing, right. But my mom and I we
lived in the trap, not like we stayed where people

(02:32):
went got stuff and then took it to wherever they're going.
This is where my mom paid rent at and so
it was almost like what you were supposed to, you know,
like everybody was doing it.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
You know, that word gets thrown around a lot. We
went in the trap or the trap? It does, it does,
But can you just paint the picture of what that
is growing up, what that looks like for somebody who
is not.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
From that world. And here's that word. All the time.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
It is predumbed dealing with the buying and selling them
just goods. And when I say goods, I mean every
you know, from weed to to cocaine or whatever. Right.
And then this is a neighborhood. So every neighborhood in
Atlanta is not a trap. But different neighborhoods have traps
where you go and you get something where people come

(03:20):
in town, college, students, whatever. You just go there to
this certain neighborhood and you get whatever you need. Somebody
has it. You know, people used to run to cars
and before these a.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
Lot of people took place. You dip in and you.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Dip out, you call it.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
So so people don't know what happens at the zoo
at night. Everybody gone, right, But it's really like a
zoo there, right And when you come in the daytime
and people think it's interesting, and people will come and
be like, look at these you know, look at these
guys and they have you know, but then no one
really knows what happens at night when you actually live there,
and there's a lot of peer pressures and it's a
lot of things that you have to go through. And
with me even articulating this film and even articulating myself

(04:00):
as a man right now, I never want to try
to out trauma anyone that's a rapper. In my opinion,
they always try to outstruggle each other, like you just
don't know. I used to eat you know, I used
to eat water, bro I you know what I'm saying,
and like damn, like okay. So but for me, it
was trying to find a tasteful way to say that

(04:20):
I have really overcome overcame a lot, like I've been
through a lot, and I don't want to sit here
and get a pity party or even pull out clean eggs.
I think this story is that it's another side to it.
My mom is here with me now, should be seventy
five next week, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
We can I hear what's in there.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Were looking like it, were feeling like it. We smell
like it. Me and Mama smoked the joint on the
way to the airport. Come on, man on the like here,
you know what I'm saying, That's how we look. It's
just like you can't even make this up. And you know,
we on the other side like to say, we're on
the other side of the mountain, Like going up that
mountain was a real struggle for both of us and
my father being around limit, you know what I'm saying,

(05:01):
And we just so I'm really showing people like this
is the prize, this is what it looks like on
the other side.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
I love that.

Speaker 4 (05:07):
And also it is when we talk about that those
areas the trap as it were, it's a lot of
beauty in that, you know, because it's still human beings
having a human experience and show when I say the
beauty you know, not of a kind of that side
of it.

Speaker 5 (05:23):
With this community.

Speaker 4 (05:24):
There's family, there's kindness, there's hope, you know, even so
whet the film that highlights that as well.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (05:34):
And again, in those subtle ways.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
What is the hardest part of sharing this for you?
The most vulnerable part of this for you.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Because people are, oh man, well, like you know, people
are still living that's living back then, so like France relatives,
you know what I'm saying. So it's not like so
it's just really hard for me to live in it,
you know what I'm saying, Because I don't know if

(06:03):
people knew that this was going on or if they saying, boy,
you you dumb if you think we didn't know. So
I just I just I find a hard time what
part of it because the hard parts of it, if
I must say, the hard parts of the film that
I had to deal with with my mom and stuff
like that. So I don't know, if I think right

(06:24):
now just like so this is a great way we did.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
I don't want to It's like I don't want to
spoil either.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
But when we're talking about at the beginning of like
how circumstances, what is our other choice. You show the
choice of a young child whose mother is almost look.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Like, if I tell somebody that started like, come on, man,
you could have thought of another way, you could have
done something else. But honestly, in the position that I
felt like I was in, I feel like this was
the only only choice I had. And so when I
showed this in Atlanta at the Film Festival in Atlanta,
I had my head down the whole time when I
show it. But I'm going to show it here in

(07:02):
New York. I don't know people. I'm not really embarrassed,
like you don't know, you can't just you just you know,
you're looking at the receipt right now. So I'm not
even really But at home it was I had a
moment because I see people that's from my neighbor because
I'm buying everybody out to see that, So I'm seeing
people from my neighborhood or friends or even relatives, you
know what I'm saying, And so just trying to navigate

(07:26):
through that therapeutically, Like it's just where I'm at with
that right now. Man, Like I've had people this is
something that reveals truth about you know, people that that
I say wear masks. You know, you know most of
the day, you know, we come out. I smiled my
way through high school, literally smile my way. I didn't
make a see he know this too until I got

(07:48):
to college, and I made it on purpose so I
could feel like an average person. See the great Yes,
I was like, but all through high school, I'm at
an amb ais and bes and you ask my mom,
she have to be my alarm clock. I went because
I wanted to go. I got my scholarship on my
own from playing basketball.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
You said, you got to see because you just wanted
to feel like.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
I'm not gonna cap you down my my transcript show,
but I'm just trying to tell you like and then
I went to school because I like to dress. I
like females. Obviously I like to have, you know, put
it on so you're looking at somebody that that you're
looking at somebody that that I can explain like this
I have. I went to juvenile for selling or not

(08:32):
for selling possession of cocaine at fifteen, and I have
a college degree in psychology. It's not that many people
to have that spectrum, and so it's a lot of
stuff between those two.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
What can you tell me about you as young you
and now we do see a version of it in
this movie. But what without specifics about exactly what happened,
just your relationship with your mother as a as a
young boy.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Well, she loves me, she learned my rid or you
like that as a Yeah, because this is where the
titty boy name come from, because I was sitting there.
I'm like a titty bear. I'll just be sitting up
under her. Whay they're trying to play cards, smoking cigarettes, drinking,
doing whatever they doing. I just won't get out the
way because you know that's my rock. You know what
I'm saying. And so that's why I was really hard

(09:17):
to tell that story because I didn't want to disrespect
of her her feelings either.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
How did she react when she saw it?

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Well, I had the movie like two months before I
was able to show it to her. She would come
to the house. I just want to show it. I
showed my wife, let me show my kids, and then.

Speaker 5 (09:35):
Came through the set.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
She was there we shot, but she wouldn't come inside
because the house was hot. But she was there the
whole time. And then I finally showed her to her
just to get her nod because I didn't want to
show it to the whole public without her or it
being her first time. And we just started. I just
started learning so much more that I just even like,
I learned so much more that I had no clue

(09:58):
about her and my father was relationship, where I was,
where they got married, how they met, Just stuff that
you don't even I guess ask your parents.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Is not that interesting that we sometimes could go our
whole life with a story in our head.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
And until you set your parents down as an adult,
I never knew.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
And the funny part is when you, as we get older,
they give you more details.

Speaker 5 (10:19):
They feeling like.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
You don't ask, or you don't create moments to have
those conversations.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
I don't think you just wake up and be like,
I'm so, how did you beat this guy? You know?

Speaker 5 (10:28):
You know, you just that's so funny.

Speaker 4 (10:30):
He called me one day, he said, Cook, I just
found out how my parents met.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
Man, it was so I wasn't that.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
I was like my mom, she said she dreamed about them,
some little story and come and then he got rated
and they kept in touch and some other stuff. But yeah,
I think mom, y'all got married in prison. I think right, Yes,
I didn't even know that to twenty twenty five. They

(10:59):
got married in president forty some year old. Man, how
long was your.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
Father away for most of your life?

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Right? Yeah, yeah, he was in and out. He was,
but he's still like I never I never. Okay, So
I'm from the era and I'm sure we're all from
the era of fuck my daddy, man, fuck that. You know,
Like my whole neighborhood was like because it was just
like because the norm that was norm my dad, and
I just would not say it, really, I never said it,
no matter how long he would be gone. We would
do this thing like if my mom took me to

(11:24):
sim in prison, he would put his hand on the
glass and just to kind of see how tall I was,
A hot big I was getting, you know what I'm saying.
So it was a little and I would go back
and see him and it looked like, you know, he
would be aging, and but you know, he always had
some game and you know, something to tell me. So
it wasn't like he was completely out of my life,
you know what I'm saying. In the last seven years

(11:45):
of his life, I picked him up from me. He
went to prison in his seventies. I think he was
just like the sixty seven. So the last time he went,
I picked my I said, look, nigga stopped. You know
what I'm saying, Come stay with me. Stay with me, bro,
You know what I'm saying. You know, we get out,
get him, go to Verizon and a cell phone. He
got like nine thousand saved, you know what I'm saying.
And he stayed with me, and he still beat the

(12:06):
b got out, started hanging with my friends. He trapping
with my friends. You know what I'm saying. Just was
like my dad passed away. I found two pounds a week,
six gun. I don't even know why you got six guns.
My cousin go over there, she goes to sleep. Wake up,
Oh my god, it's a gun under the pillow. What
was wrong with your father? Why would he have a gun?
So it's just all of these I found. We had

(12:27):
a pipe that busted upstairs, so we had to redo
the whole basement. Man, one of the migos, come up, Yo, migoo,
it's money that he doesn't stashed in the room in
a closet. Mama, come get all the money from you know,
you know he on me that you know what I'm saying.
So I did have a lot of great experiences, you know,

(12:49):
even though he wasn't there, and it just this is
just how it was supposed to be, you know what
I'm saying, how I turned out. It's like I learned
a lot from you know.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
It's a street you know. You know it's so interesting though.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
It's like, so you talk about your mom and and
the part we do say is that in her addiction
and all the things that that brought to your life,
but you loved your mom so much, like they called
the teddyboy. No, not everybody. Some people do, but they
have a complicated distance. It turns not everybody puts their
arms around those type of situations. Your mom was dealing

(13:22):
with addiction, you held on tighter. Your dad's in prison.
You just you just said you held on tighter. Well,
everybody in the neighborhood. That says something about you, I think,
you know what I'm saying. How many people are like
like you said, fuck my father, or they get angry
at their mother even.

Speaker 4 (13:38):
Even when so to the thing that you know you're
kind of dancing around. It was from it's a reason
from protection, you know what I mean. In trying to
protect everybody.

Speaker 5 (13:51):
That behavior, you know what I mean in a child's mind.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Look at yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I mean
by those layers, you know, And it's a very it's been.

Speaker 5 (14:05):
It's interesting when people see the film. I mean, from
all walks of life. Everyone has.

Speaker 4 (14:10):
We were talking to some member. We was having that
meeting one time, and it might have been a different
type of thing, but that addiction, you know, a woman
just she's got a yeah in the room. It was
similar my mom. And so it's one of those things.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
What is the movie bring up for you? Like what
was your childhood like in comparison to like telling this.

Speaker 4 (14:31):
Story, you know, in terms of the love and like
protection over you know, mom. Duke's like, I mean, I
have a different experience. You know, my father only met
my father once.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
Me too, look at us, look at us.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
That's when did you meet yours?

Speaker 5 (14:49):
I met my father once when I was twelve.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
Oh and that was it?

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Good old yeah, good.

Speaker 4 (14:56):
Right?

Speaker 3 (14:57):
Your dad's is really.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
You got extraordinary? Like considering the circumstances, y'all did extraordinary?

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Well.

Speaker 4 (15:06):
I think that, you know, I think that's our mother's
you know, that's that word here that held it down
for through how they could, you know what I mean?
And and we were, you know, fortunate, but we both
put into work. That's why we talked to him about like,
don'tbody see the work, you know what I mean, not
deviating from the conversation. But that's the problem with social

(15:26):
media right now. It's all a highlight reel.

Speaker 5 (15:28):
Yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (15:29):
They just showed a shot going in. They don't show
the thousand misses to hit the one. You know what
I mean, I do, And so we you know, I
say that humbly, but we both have put in and
continue to put in that work.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
The interesting thing is both your situations with your pops,
you not you meeting your father once?

Speaker 3 (15:46):
How did that go? By the way, Uh.

Speaker 4 (15:48):
It's a whole like I actually wrote a short about that, yes,
because it was a life experience in four days, the
whole life happened that I didn't realize until like five
years ago.

Speaker 5 (16:00):
It's me late too, bro, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Like on the letter, And then how does that change
you after you meet him for the first time, because
afterwards is when this you might change your perspective a little.

Speaker 4 (16:13):
No, it did, it did, but It's just one of
those things. I think, you go through life. What's the
new buzz word unpacking, right, unpacking taking agency over self,
And I'm.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
Just like, but that's real, though, it's real.

Speaker 4 (16:31):
I think for me it really that really started to
come to light once I started having kids, Like once
I became a father, all of that kind of it
comes back up and trying to figure it out, and.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
Like, because nobody taught you how to do that, right.

Speaker 5 (16:48):
You know, and you're kind of like designing the blueprint.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
I just wonder because for me, my story, my whole
life was that my father was a heroin addict and
that's why he wasn't around. And so my whole life
I've always treated people with a type of empathy because
I was never angry at my father, like you, right.
I always thought, oh, because he was addicted to drugs,
so that's why he wasn't able to be a father.

(17:13):
Then I found out, like a couple of years ago,
that he actually has a I thought he was dead
by the way.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
I thought he was dead for many many years.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Thought he died never because I haven't heard from him
since I was ten, So I thought he was dead.
Then we found out he was alive, thriving, healthy family
now and good for him he got out of his addiction,
he survived and all of that. But I thought he
was dead all these years. But something interesting happened to
me after where because I was wired a certain way

(17:40):
for so long, where I had this empathy for people
who have addiction or people who have had struggles, and
I got a little weird for like a few months
here where I started like, not, I don't want to
hear no excuses about shit.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
Everything sounded like somebody was making an excuse, you know.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
I started and it was a weird had to like
check myself. I had to like, wait a minute, you
don't want to be that person. You had it right
the first time. I realized it was more emotional than anything.
But it definitely somethings when your story gets rewritten, like
when you meet your father for the first time. I
just wonder if there's a rewriting of who you are
that happens after that.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
Maybe not for you, Maybe that just was my sorry.

Speaker 5 (18:19):
I think that's true.

Speaker 4 (18:20):
It's interesting because as you saying that, I was just
thinking about some of our conversations with like change was
hesitant in certain moments kind of like I could sense it, like, no, nah,
we're going It's happening the right way in a sense
of we would have conversations about this childhood. I like

(18:42):
what you just said, rewiring, But it doesn't rewire you.
It's you rewiring yourself. Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 (18:50):
It does? It does, So I had to It took
me a second to like.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Fine tune yourself.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
Fine tune. Yeah, fine tuning. And that's because I was like, oh,
I'm rewired.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
This is weird, right, Like.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Boy, get your ass up. You have twenty four hours.
I want to hear that.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
I tell you.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
I got too to say that person here you telling
me about I get it though.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
Man, And I have to rewire again because I was like, no,
that's not who you are really in your soul.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
So I think the whole thing I know we talk
about all time is nature versus nurture. Like you know
what I'm saying. Are you somebody that's like raised by
like you know, a great home which is perfect? Or
are you raised by your environment? You know what I'm saying.
And I think my mind is definitely not, you know,
fifty to fifty. But but it did help and we

(19:39):
all have to, you know, figure out what's what's us?
Are we outside? Is everybody outside or do we have
any kind of parental advisory going on around everybody's else?

Speaker 1 (19:49):
What is the thing that you you attribute to you
both of you just getting to the other side of
this and the way that you in the extraordinary way
that both of you have, and also just in family,
like you are in long term, very long term. You've
been married how long now it's going on twenty sheesh,
and you got.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Like, yeah, we got married in twenty eighteen.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
But you were together a long time afore that.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah, Keisha my rock, Yeah for sure.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
I'm just saying you seem to have figured out how
to do healthy family.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
And both of them named Keisha Epps, which is yeah,
both my wife named Keisha now is wild.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
That's amazing. Yeah, that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, So how do you know, like, so, how what
do you attribute that to success in that way, especially
not being you know, usually have to learn how to
be a partner, a father, all those things.

Speaker 4 (20:40):
That's a that's a good question. I mean, I just
think it's knowing who you are in our respective ways.
We both had to what they call grow up fast.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
I was thinking the same thing. The low I was
about to say, because we was popping. We was popping.
I'm gonna come clean. I was popping it. I was
popping so popping. You know, it's no secret. You know
my first threesome seventh grade, you know it was.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
It was not in the seventh grade.

Speaker 5 (21:19):
That was How old was?

Speaker 3 (21:21):
How old are you people?

Speaker 2 (21:22):
Twelve? Twelve? You know? And girds they invited me in.
I don't want to say their name, but yeah, well
I'm just trying to tell you when you had these
kind of experiences so early, you know what I'm saying,
Not to say that you just was you know, you know,
the captain of the ship at this type of but
I was forced to grow up really really really fast.

(21:44):
So to find somebody that you can settle down with
or slow down with, it starts to be a goal.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
You have to get it out of your system first.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
You think, I don't know, I'm just speaking, you know
what I'm saying, And so, yeah, your circumstances, I don't
even know if it was about getting up my systems.
I met somebody that was super compatible, god fearing and
that I would like to help raise my kids. You
know what I'm saying I.

Speaker 5 (22:12):
Had to figure it out. Yeah I didn't.

Speaker 4 (22:14):
I never for me, I was not trying to get married.
I didn't think marriage was in the carse for me
because you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
Because you was young, omars in the streets.

Speaker 4 (22:24):
My sniper rifles, my gosh, don't don't have keeps running here?
And I just you know, you know, you know, but
but I just you know, of course I thought about
having kids, you them, but I didn't know what you know,
you come from parents, household, like the idea.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Of for example, what do you do? What do you use?
That's when you think that used to be my excuse
and tell like so who who? Who? The person? We
you know it's to be yeah, you know what.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
I'm saying, happy marriage.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah, like who you know? But it becomes a time
where you have to stop using that excuse. And yeah,
I mean, I don't know if it's an excuse, it's
the truth. It's some truth into it to be like Obama.
We have that though you look like we didn't have
Obama were like the Cosbys ain't Real's like right, ain't

(23:22):
neither one of our parents together either? One even talk
to the parent that they had you, you know, so
it is like, man, you have to jump out on faith.

Speaker 4 (23:32):
If I can say something too though, you know, it's
a tribute to our women, Like we got some dope women,
you know what I mean. I think when you find
a dope but like she just and she fight through
it to be with you, like with you you when
you outside, you can see that clear as they like,
oh nah, that's that's special. And then I think the

(23:53):
foundation you know that friendship. You know that's an overused.

Speaker 5 (24:00):
Just stated word right there, that's friendship.

Speaker 4 (24:04):
Yeah, like yo, Yo, that's my homie. Like that's not
just this title wife or whatever, like that's my girl.
Like I like, I like hanging out with my you
know what I mean, Like we laugh, we we do
everything together like that.

Speaker 5 (24:18):
That and to have that as also obviously like your lover.

Speaker 4 (24:21):
But then we're changing, so like the matriarch, like once
you start having children, and it's like I try to
tell these young casts, like yo, when you make that decision,
you should think, God forbid, if something happened to you,
is that the woman you want raising your kids? When
you think like that, it's your whole perspective. You talk
about rewiring you be like, oh yeah, yeah, that list

(24:43):
is real tiny, you know what I'm saying. And you
you know, I think we've been blessed, like you know,
both of us, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yeah, for sure we was Keisha was Keisha Keisha already
she was right. I was gonna say, what was it
about her? But now she wasn't in total.

Speaker 4 (25:01):
She was a total, but they wasn't signed. So when
we were, she was aspiring tone.

Speaker 5 (25:06):
We met like early, early, and it's like, yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
You watch that now, but you watched her whole Oh yeah, yeah.
The evolution of that it was incredible because sometimes when
people have, especially celebrities date each other, I think the
reason that it doesn't work is because they see them
as this entity star and then and then sometimes that
this is a lot. But you two have rolled the

(25:31):
all the waves of all of.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
That stuff together.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (25:34):
But again, that friendship, like we was, that was the homie.
So yeah, I was watching obviously I was happy and
proud of her, but I'm like, oh man, you're about
to put that Gail in that weird jail you do,
I know the tricks, you know, but it was it
was just dope to see you know her own star,
you know, rise and more importantly like you her fulfill

(25:56):
her dreams and aspirations, you know, and just to be there,
you know, on the sidelines, rooting for it the whole time.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
That's dope.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
It's dope.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
What about fatherhood? How have you guys managed that road?

Speaker 4 (26:10):
That's it for me. It's I tell my kids all
the time. I'm like, look, I'm figuring this out just
like you are. You know my old Yeah, my oldest
is twenty six, like my middle twenty one. My son
is seventeen, and I'm like, this is weird.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
Did your kids see this movie?

Speaker 2 (26:33):
So yeah, we did?

Speaker 1 (26:35):
They know all of this already, because you're pretty honest
with your kids.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
No, I'm super they didn't know, but then you know,
they know now they know. Basically, I'm trying not to
hide too much from they already go to you know,
private school, which is nothing wrong going to private school,
but I do try to inject a super reality space
on what it's like, you know, for us outside of

(26:58):
those school walls. I shared it with them, and you know,
and then with my oldest kid, like I have a
sixteen year old, So sometimes I spass out until them,
like when I was. I'll just say some you know,
I don't.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
Hate the kids hate when you say that, but some.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Of them don't know, Like damn you did. I'm like, whoa,
you know, it's like you're trying to out here, you know,
trick the trickster. You know what I'm saying. It's like,
but I love it. Man. I have two daughters, sixteen
about to be seventeen next week, so Heaven and my
mom born the same day. That's how stuff working in
my life. So Mama be seventy five, Heaven be seventeen.

(27:35):
She's good driving, she wants to go to Howard. If
that's what she wanted to do, We're gonna visit and
do that. She's a singer. And I have my middle
child going to the eighth and I have Halo who
was aspired to go to the league. He'll be ten
at the end of this year. And I'm just cool.
I'm enjoying. I'm enjoying everything. It's hard to do to
balance both, you know what I'm saying. It's hard to

(27:55):
balance both, but I try. I try to do it
because I'm still wanting to be successful in my career
as well.

Speaker 4 (28:02):
And I don't I don't think that's when you talk
about that balance. It is, but I don't think that's
relative to like what we do.

Speaker 5 (28:08):
I think if.

Speaker 4 (28:10):
Anything, you know, to work whatever you do and have family,
it's hard for anybody, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (28:18):
And once you get to that point, because it's like.

Speaker 4 (28:20):
Me and my wife talked about all the time, I'm like, yo, like,
once you have kids, you kind of like lose your girl,
like a part of.

Speaker 5 (28:28):
Her, you know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 4 (28:29):
You have to share her, you out of share and like,
so now we at the point, I'm like, yo, man,
youngest is seventeen, I want my girl back, like they
could take care of themselves.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
Like like I'm keepha, I'm hunger too. You know, kids,
what y'all wants? You know what I'm saying. But already
I get it. You know what I'm saying. I get
I get it. I'm thankful. I'm thankful You're gonna.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
Have second honeymoons once these kids out the house.

Speaker 4 (28:55):
Yeah, but you know, you know what's funny about kids
when you're talking about like you on your kids and
like the movie, it's funny because you could tell them
stories and they sound like mythology.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
To them, Yeah, I could never understand.

Speaker 4 (29:10):
It's like, nah, I really went through this, and it's like,
so they so detached from that, which is a beautiful thing.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
I was looking for this because there is a line
in the movie where the kid is it's you. It's
on the phone with his father who was in prison,
and he says, a real man never depends on a woman,
not even his mama.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
So that's that's that's what you is.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
That a real line to your father.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Real line. And they used to irritate the mess out
of my mom. And you know, it's like you got
this old fashioned way of thinking and you know, or
whatever you want to call it, it's just different phases
of life or whatever. But it was a time when
he would not be around. We would also tell me

(29:55):
that a woman can't raise a man, and would have
some type of personal validity of why he he felt
that way, and so it was very important to add
that because he was telling me that from you know,
a prison cell, so to say a woman, it's like, well,
she's doing a pretty good job. She's doing pretty she's

(30:16):
doing she's doing she's doing doing pretty good, you know,
and it's like, you know, you don't want to take
size and be like whatever. But that's that's that is
a hard position to be in. But yeah, that's that's
a very true statement that he made until he left
about men and raising men, raising men, so to speak.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yeah, but not just that, like you taking the role
of being the protector and like.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
Almost like the man of the house. Now. Yeah, so
yeah that too. You know, get your pellet gun and
until you're able to get a real gun and just
be a protector and like, you know whatever. Ain't nobody
gonna touch your mom. You know, I was just one
of those guys. You know, if I don't like the boyfriend, man,
then you can't like the boyfriend. You know what I'm saying, Just.

Speaker 5 (31:03):
With no cat when I'm not home.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
I tell that to my son. I do too. You man,
we look at the girl, watch the girls the other two.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
What you're doing?

Speaker 4 (31:10):
Yeah, yo, you know how to move like when i'm
you know, I'm out working whatever, hold it down because
I think there's there's power in that, you know what
I mean, meaning like organic with the natural Yeah, you
can nat responsibilities.

Speaker 5 (31:26):
How old is your son seventeen?

Speaker 3 (31:28):
Seventeen?

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Oh yeah, so yeah, seventeen well yeah, ready. Are you
a tough father? You are, aren't you?

Speaker 3 (31:35):
Uh yeah?

Speaker 5 (31:36):
Well with my boy yeah, my girls, I'm like, you know.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
You can't do nothing with girls. I got you can
try to be tough. It's like, what do you mean
you can't do nothing with girls? What do you mean
you can't do nothing with My daughters are switched. They
are just like they own you. Yeah, they got me. Yeah.
I literally was like lit was arguing with my daughter

(32:01):
yesterday about eating and she said, well, I'm not hungry.
What do you want me to do? If I said
you only you ate, I said, you try to wait
till you starving to You shouldn't wait till you're starving
to eat. You know, Well, I'm going over with my
friends O dad like soushi and maybe like some fruit.
And I said, I'm tired of arguing about eating food.
And I just walked. I didn't even say I'm tired.

(32:22):
I just was like, you know, go ahead, you know
what I'm saying. But this is something I'm doing with
with with female with little girls when they're growing and
going through these emotions, like I can't have too much
machulent energy and have them shy away from me. I
liked when you know, my my daughter went to the prom.
She did something not like that, but she did something

(32:44):
that she knew. Man. She told me, you know what
I'm saying, And I think that that's cool to have
that carent relationship. She she couldn't hide it because she
how she walked in the house, but she was able
to tell me, my mom, I mean, my daughter had
a couple of drinks.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
You yeah, well I want that.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
My wife was there, but my driver told me.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
She wouldn't be the first and she would be the.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
First, right, And so she told me like I had.
It was this she described it was some old private school.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
Concuction.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying. School and we passed that.
So I'd like to have that relationship where we can
still talk and you don't think I'm about to I
agree with that.

Speaker 4 (33:24):
You you don't never want your kids feeling like they
can't talk to you about whatever.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
You know, So trying to find that balance to what's
the best parenting advice you've ever been given, whether you've
learned on your own.

Speaker 5 (33:36):
Mm hmm. That's a good question. That's it's a lot.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
I got one. Yours one was.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
Early.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
I learned that sometimes it because I used to beat
myself up because I'm working. If I was late to
the basketball game, I would do all that. If I
was I would cry because I'd be Oh, it's hard,
it's hard, And I try to be there and I
try to balance my life like that. But there are
times you might never be able to do, or say
or teach, Like did I teach them that? Did I

(34:09):
tell them that? So you worry about all the things
that you might have forgotten.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
To teach them.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
But I learned early that they learn more from watching
you than they will ever learn from something you told them,
Like who you are as a person, how you carry yourself,
what like my standards are my things like that? I
feel like I always gave myself that grace to be Like, okay,
if you didn't do that exactly right, if you just
be the best your version at the very minimal, If

(34:33):
you be the best version of yourself and you give
that as an example to your child, that in itself
is good parenting.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Like, I feel like that it freed me up a
little bit to not feel like I have to be
a perfect mom.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
I explained, like I like learning stuff. I like that.
I'm just I'm gonna take that with me, you will.
I like that because it's like, did I do it right?
But if you, like I guess, live by example and
by actions, then they learn, you know, consciously or subconsciously,
and you you know what I mean. So it's not
about like because I have a little boy, so I
want to give him all the game I can give him,

(35:07):
you know what I'm saying. From what to do around women,
grown up police, all the basketball for whatever it is.
You know what I'm saying. So I think what you
said actually is like how you move, the standards that
you keep, like once they see how you move or
how their mom.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Moves because we can tell you know, I mean we
I know people tell me stuff. When I was a kid,
they was blue in the face not listening to that.
But I am influenced by people and my parents.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
Yeah, you know, kids see everything, man, stuff you try
to have from them.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
They exactly right.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
You've been telling them, hey, listen, do it this way.
But meanwhile you living a different life.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Right.

Speaker 5 (35:45):
That's deep what you said.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
Me saying y'all y'all know nothing to be doing these drugs, right,
One thing I want to touch on before we get out.
I do have a soundtrack for Red Clay coming out
office the first that I need to talk about, and
then it's ultimately a mood board for Red Clay. It
makes sense, it's a mood board. It's it's nine songs total.

(36:08):
It's almost like, you know, it's the fun part of
the CREATI like, what do.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
You want people to take away from the film, Like
what this project or the music, the film, just the
whole project.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
What is your hope for how it lands.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
In the world.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
My hope is that it ultimately opens up somebody's ability
to express maybe some you know, trauma and heart troops.
I don't want to say heart troops. And for me,
it took thirty years to do this, literally thirty years,

(36:44):
ten albums, how many mixtapes, don't know how many interviews
to put it in a short film, to not still
not say it, just to like put it out there.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Did you talk about it in private? Like did people
know that about your life? So it's like a secret
that you held on to for all this year?

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeah? Very huge, very very huge.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
You feel freed now.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
It's getting there, but I'm not there yet. I feel
I feel some tightnings ship right now, sick, I feel
some tight shit.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
I don't know, but sometimes when you hold something something
about you that's it's like you're not all the way free,
because it's always like hanging on your shoulder.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
Maybe maybe maybe we say that and maybe you help
me with my elevator pitch. Maybe this could help free
some somebody and not like in a prison sense, but like, yeah,
taking the truth because you know, I think a lot
of us have been through childhood stuff that we may
have somewhat normalized because it was going on in our

(37:43):
four walls, right you get into the real world, you
start learning things, seeing things and realizing like, oh, you know,
maybe maybe because even like when I was going through
this stuff, I still was like I had a place
to stay. I still was like he I still was
going to school, Like my mom would sometimes have a
still have a job though she was, you know, dealing

(38:04):
with whatever she was dealing with. She you know what
I'm saying, And you know, you just think I'm just
you know, you don't know. You don't know that you
in the house for a couple of days as eleven
twelve year old, you know, by yourself and like This
is not normal, you know what I'm saying. And this
is before phone, So I don't know where my mom is.
I just know she'll be back by Wednesday, you know

(38:25):
what I'm saying, or something like that. She's not gonna
be going the whole week. You know what I'm saying.
She might go to weekend Wednesday. And then when I
get old enough to be like, man, I'm I'm tired
of you doing that. Like when I become a teenager,
my mom took me to all the places that she
would like be if I needed her, Like when I
got a certain age to be like so from like
maybe eleven to like fifteen, fifteen sixteen, I started being like, man,

(38:47):
you know where the fuck you be going? You know
what you be doing? And she felt the need because
she she kept trying to get it right. You know
what I'm saying. She kept trying to get it right.
She took me to these places. I was just like, comet,
believe you be you know, I believe that she would
be in these places, you know.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
You know it just it forced me to be wanted
to show you her truth. I guess at that.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
Point, I'm like you, I couldn't believe you. And it's
not nowhere near my house. I just couldn't beleave this, like,
how do you meet these people? Whatever? But you know,
like I said, we're on the other side of the mind.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
How did she get to the other side of that?
Because a lot of people don't make it.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Man, I don't know. My mom stopped smoking cigarettes. My
mom don't be for portant no more. She get off
the I don't know how she got off the she said,
I don't have to That's another thing. I'm gonna have
to ask what I have to figure it out? Yeah,
you know, it just it, but it happened. I don't
know if she went through something. We have to talk
about that.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
This might open up some conversations for you and your mom.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
Is she looking at me now? You see me looking down?
I was. I was there. I just don't know why
or how.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Yeah, I would imagine that gives you some and pride
that part of it. She was able to, Oh, yeah, man,
turn into the person.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Now my mom be at all my restaurants and my clubs,
with all my aunts hanging out, and it's just you know,
I had I did the video with the Osley Brothers
in the hood and I said, I knew I was
gonna do the video, but I said, I can't tell
my mom too early because she'll have it's gonna be
so many people. It's like three am the day of

(40:27):
the video. I text her say, man, I got run Aley,
y'all come through. You known at three am? Videos start
ten eleven o'clock. My mama pull up. Man, it looked
like you know how you know how I look when
clown was getting out the car, they didn't never stop.
I like, how many people are in this black truck.
It's just like I just kept seeing hands. As soon

(40:51):
as I seen my I say, come on, let's get
this picture. Hey, mister Ron, my mama wanted to meet you,
so you know those are like she.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
Must be really proud of you.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
Yeah, yeah, I think she is. I would be, you
would be. I would.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
I'm sure you're too, because your relationship with your mother
you were real.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
He's been popping though, he's been popping, popping.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
It's so crazy. As we were sitting here talking just now,
just when where we.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Are and the times, and I just started going down
like how many films and yeah, how long you've been.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
Doing been making people proud? Because you know when you
get on TV. People that are not on TV, they
they can't even five minute they thank you, like are
in the TV, Like right right right now, you getting
there cook Like you know what I'm saying. So you're
doing it at high level very early. That has to
create that, you know. For me, it's like I remember,

(41:44):
I remember that, just like being an a Ludicris video
and people like actually, when I read some of those
letters from my dad, he was in prison, he telling me, well,
I just seen you in the video. He like, but
they came, he said, some of the guys came and
got me and I saw you in this video. Man,
So that was good. You know. I was making it then,

(42:05):
not even saying it, just like getting a cameo. So
it just it's levels, you know what I'm saying obviously,
but right now you know she's she's you know, smiling.
You go find some good food after this. Mama her
birthday next week, I was like, man, I gotta do
something for She wanted to go to LA with twenty
folks and oh, Mama, listen.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
She gonna pull up in that call that same car.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
In real life before we go.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
I have a little in real life questions that we
ask everybody in real life.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
What do you pray for most?

Speaker 2 (42:39):
I pray every day all day into like strength, wisdom,
you know, staying fearless, being able to bless others. Definitely family,
I pray for each one I pray for, I wrap,
I pray for, I do everything for. I eat, I
pray for, I sleep, I pray for I do almost
everything and everything. But I am They're definitely faith driven,
and I feel like it works for me. And I

(43:00):
don't try to like hide it, like I'd be sitting
at a table full of people. I just start praying.
I ain't you know what I'm saying. I ain't even embarrassed.
My kid looked, they be running all their friends, look
like she blessed your food.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
You know.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
That's just what I'm on.

Speaker 3 (43:13):
That's what is that how you're raised or you developed?

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Yeah? Yeah, my dad was he and we talked about that.
I actually got a a book coming out March. I
want to say, and I just but but but my
day used to write a chapter. The name of the
book is the Voice in your Head is God Right?
And we can get it'll behold. But it's a chapter
called God is Love that like, oh, Mark, I didn't

(43:37):
realize what that he used to write it on the
back of you know, all these letters. So like I
found these letters from like oh three and I'm reading them,
and all of them got God is Love on them.
But it's like I'm looking and I'm putting, I'm putting
an equal sign what it is at right now? You
get what I'm saying, and and I'm saying he's saying God.

(43:57):
It's like the same like if it ain't loved, then
it came. But I'm just figuring this out though, like
five years, the last five years, so it's some paper
trailers and some lessons that has been left for me
to like. But I just I was just God is love.
He used to say it all the time, and I
was like, okay, okay, But now I kind of get it,

(44:18):
Like if you own some hate, like you ain't got
the gut that ain't you know what I'm saying. I
got I'm starting to get it, but I'm still starting
to get it. That's why I'm like, like, you gotta
mean this, so.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
Yeah, yeah, and you what do you pray for most?

Speaker 4 (44:31):
I don't know if I can say most, but you know,
obviously family and uh, but much of the same, you know, wisdom, patience, strength, happiness.

Speaker 5 (44:43):
I pray for laughter, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (44:45):
I love laughter?

Speaker 5 (44:47):
Yeah, and like the understanding.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
What are your real life pet peeves or triggers.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
I don't like drunk people yelling two chains in my face.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
That's real. It's problematic and very.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
Specific and very like stop that question the way.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
I wouldn't like that.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
You do like this, Let me get a pick and
I say, yes, I can get a pick, and I
say yes, like, do you mind if I get picked?
And I say, you know, I said yes. You know
what I mean. So it's it's that I think I
just first of all, I drink, but I'm not like
a drinker. You know what I'm saying to I.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
Don't realize how many things we had.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
Yeah weed in I like a cop, Yeah yeah yeah,
but I'm not you never you know, they're gonna have
to tell me anywhere, I'm not gonna be throwing up.
So when people get like that, and don't I hate
it none, You're right, I don't like it.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
I don't like it.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
I don't like and I don't like when people something
happens to people's eyes and they start getting out of character,
even friends and people. Like when I see that shift
when people have drank too much and they get out
of character, I almost want to.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
Relieve myself from the situation. I don't like it. I
don't like it.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
And look, look, I like to get hot, you know whatever.
You know what I'm saying. But I'm not like, I'm
not like to the point where I'm not myself. Let
me say that.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
Yeah, I get it. You gotta pet peeple over there.
You're thinking about it.

Speaker 5 (46:10):
I got a lot of Pete's crazy.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
What do you mean, Oh, it's crazy. Oh. I was like, Yo,
we're gonna be in your city now. I know you
can see this is he he's we're here. You know
what I'm saying. Yes, man, I don't mess with none
of y'all. I don't like none of y'all.

Speaker 5 (46:29):
Be on a little. I think one of my pet
piece is this organization. I'm a clean freak.

Speaker 4 (46:36):
You are, yeah, And I'm in functions like all of that,
like or synchronicity.

Speaker 5 (46:42):
It's a it's an energy thing.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
You a little OCD.

Speaker 5 (46:45):
Maybe that's what I said.

Speaker 3 (46:47):
Oh yeah, okay, it sounds like it.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Sounds like it.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
What is real life.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
Last piece of great advice, someone that's given you, think
of anything.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
Last piece of advice I got was at a Colorado
football game. It was that last game with Sure Door
and Travis and Coach Brown was he wasn't talking to me,
he was actually talking to the team. But I like
to learn in every situation. Like I said earlier, and
he said, the strongest person in the room is not
the person that could live the most weight. It's the

(47:18):
person that knows when it's time to walk away. And
I thought that was so much. I thought it was
so much game.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
That's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
That is pretty good.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
They're gonna follow that up.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
I'm not We're gonna take that. I'm gonna walk away.

Speaker 3 (47:33):
You heard from him? Who heard it from somebody else?

Speaker 1 (47:37):
What about a regret, any regret, a real life regret
in life that you've had that you would I mean,
this might take you back to your film that you
don't want to tell anybody what you talk about mobout.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
I don't know if that let get this.

Speaker 5 (47:51):
I think, I mean, who doesn't have regrets? Right?

Speaker 4 (47:55):
I think the older I get I regret not smelling
the roses as much.

Speaker 5 (48:01):
As I could have been. Yeah, as much as I
could have.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Like I was just I can only imagine the rooms,
the circumstances, the things that you have seen in your career.

Speaker 5 (48:09):
Yeah, and I didn't really realize that. And again I
was wow young. You know.

Speaker 4 (48:15):
I did my first film when I was my son's age,
which is what seventeen. Wow, And that was when I
did Juice. You were seventeen seventeen, you.

Speaker 3 (48:23):
Landed the role, or when you're shooting, shooting.

Speaker 5 (48:25):
When it came out and all of that.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
So that's crazy.

Speaker 4 (48:30):
That is crazy When you ask questions just now, I'm like, yeah,
I didn't. You know, there's just so many moments I
wish I would have taken it in, you know.

Speaker 5 (48:38):
But then it's that's not what was meant. I guess
you know what I mean. Because I was just so young,
it was like this just happened, you know.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
All of sudden life changes. People are gone.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
Yeah, I went down a rabbit hole today because we
don't know where we're filmed. This is not normally where
we filmed. Our place was not available today and we
came here. Luckily they allowed us to come and up.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
I work here a lot. I was just telling my
mom what this was, right, I have.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
I don't come here a lot, but I have been
here a couple of times. But when I walked in today,
it was like I felt, it felt weird, like I.

Speaker 5 (49:19):
Felt when we got on the joint. We walked in.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Oh, yeah, I don't like the elevators in New York period.
Definitely don't like this.

Speaker 5 (49:28):
But it's just for you.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
I went.

Speaker 4 (49:30):
It brought up of a time, came back to with
like you could smell the air.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
That's how this, Oh I felt. I had that feeling
today too. I know exactly what.

Speaker 4 (49:40):
You mean with the point that you just said, Man,
there's so many people that's no longer with us.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
When I got in the elevator, we're by the way,
we're at Quad Studios, this was yeah, people should know.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
Yeah, this is obviously where Park was shot.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Five times, five times and he thought he set him up.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
Yes, this has led up to the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
But some thing about the details of that story I
have always sat with me and I don't know when
we got in the Even to Brittany, I said, we
got in the elevator today and I just kept my
head down in the elevator. I don't like I don't
I don't want to look around the elevator. I don't
I don't want to.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
I don't even want that to come up, you know
what I'm saying. Just sat So I just go in
the elevator like this till we get upstairs.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
And it's been so many years, but walking in here
it still had that visceral effect on me. It took
me like a little while to like I had to
eat a sandwich and Jill and have some water and
talk and talk to Finally like I got the energy,
loosen them, get the energy off me a little bit.
I could only imagine for you when you walked in,
I was like, maybe this probably wasn't the best location.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
So it's here.

Speaker 5 (50:40):
It's all love.

Speaker 4 (50:41):
It's just one of those things you just appreciate, you know,
the now, but also then you know so a lot
of history and when people talk about this, this thing
about the culture, right, it's like, yo, this is that shifted,
that forever shifted.

Speaker 5 (50:57):
It altered the course of a cold Yes, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
Who would know at that young age that that would.

Speaker 5 (51:03):
Be none of us were just living.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
I just did interview today and they were like, did
you could you imagine, like how influential those artists back then,
because you know, I started on the radio one that
was all happening, and Jay starting his career, and I
was running around with all that's going on, and you
never really could imagine. You can never imagine where it
was going to land.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
And yeah, yeah, thank you, so many, so many archives
with you in the middle of his career.

Speaker 4 (51:27):
I got a lot of archives, but with in techy
thank you along the way.

Speaker 3 (51:31):
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (51:32):
That's the appreciation that we have business.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
For you have no idea. One day, I'll tell my
story when you're ready, Omar. You know what I mean,
y'all get we could collaborate all that, but there's many
stories to tell.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
But what what what for you at that What do
you tell that kid, seventeen year old Omar in that time,
what do you think he needed to hear smell the roses, smell.

Speaker 5 (51:58):
Of roses and.

Speaker 4 (52:01):
Enjoy it, you know, enjoy it, you know, and stay.
You know I was always focused, but I would just
say enjoy it.

Speaker 5 (52:08):
It will be more like, you know, I'm still on
my mission.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
I'm still.

Speaker 5 (52:14):
Michael from Good Times. I'm a little militant.

Speaker 3 (52:18):
Walk you know, Black.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Power to I'm supporting them, but I'd be like, oh,
this is God. Even in the doing, the feeling like
oh please stop, what was he doing? He just he's
just like if he's just somebody that believes and the

(52:50):
you know, the black experience and with that black and brown, Yeah,
you know what that should be like and feel like.
And if you have to tie up your boot straps,
then he's a militant little He's a militant little fucker, right,
I tell you he's a militant you know what it is.

Speaker 5 (53:09):
I'm upholding the standard that was passed on to me.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
Do you feel like you have done well?

Speaker 1 (53:18):
Or do you feel like because you always say like
you have so much, you still have so much to do.
You were saying that before, like do you ever like
just assess that already you have done enough or that
you have not enough?

Speaker 5 (53:30):
But I feel like I've done well.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (53:32):
But what I say is more to do. I'm not
necessarily talking about I mean in life, like I don't
know if it's going to be in this space right
on film. It's not necessarily just that, you know what
I mean, It's just more things to do as a
human because at the end of the day, if you
look it up out from where we come from.

Speaker 5 (53:52):
On paper, neither one of us is supposed to be
sitting here living this life. We are.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
What is the key to doing it well?

Speaker 2 (53:58):
Though?

Speaker 3 (53:58):
Because you've done it well for so long.

Speaker 5 (54:01):
I think it's it's interesting. It's part of that is
kind of.

Speaker 4 (54:05):
Like what you said, you never you always open to learning,
you know, always open to learning and holding at least
the standard has to be in your mind, you know
what I'm saying. So when we hear these stories like
in basketball and be like Yo, Covid used to go
to the gym after the game, after the win and
put up a thousand, you know, free throws, like for

(54:26):
what we won.

Speaker 5 (54:28):
That's a standard, you know what I mean? That he held
himself to God blessed.

Speaker 4 (54:33):
But I think we all have those capabilities and whatever
that thing is that you do.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
You got to be self motivated. You can't down motivation. Motivation,
You got to be able to find you got to
better put yourself in the gym. You got bet want
to eat right, you got bad, want to take care
of yourself and your family. It's so easy, man, your mind.
Have you in the bed all all day, if that's

(54:59):
what it is, but you got to find that self motivation.
And if it is scrolling Instagram looking at somebody in
his case, looking at somebody that got a role. In
my case, looking at somebody that everybody on they dick
because they supposed to be good. But you know, the
music is so whatever. It is like whatever I find
my more, but I can. I can definitely motivate myself.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
You find the inspiration, I'm gonna do it.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
I'm gonna do it.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
You're motivated guy to everybody, discipline.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Got to very disciplined, very disciplined.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
That is a piece of the puzzle that people forget. Talent, gifts, uh, blessings,
all that's cool, but.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
It's the discipline is almost a common denominated to all
of those things. You know, we got to have that
in there.

Speaker 4 (55:42):
Yeah, I was told that young That's one of the
piece of advice that I took with me at a
young age. I told I was told it's talent is
ten percent of the equation. Discipline isn't ninety percent. And
that's just across the board.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
What are your legacies both of your real life, Like
what do you hope people take and learn from your life?

Speaker 3 (56:03):
We're all here to like.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Go oh, so I can piggyback off whatever you come on.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Man, you just made a movie about your life. The
most vulnerable time in your life is you haven't. You
have never shared this your whole career, all the ups
and downs in the whole journey of your career. You
have held this part of your life secret. And now
you're You've opened up to share that. That's gotta There's
got to be something about that that you want people
to to learn something from.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
Has to be. You wouldn't do that for just because.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Right, not just because it's purpose purpose feel it's purpose driven.
I think my legacy would be maybe going back to
being transparent. Like one of my legacies is being myself
very comfortable, and it's hard to do that with is

(56:53):
this No, it's way more followers than leaders. But I
just think I have become the guy that is not
just saying it, but through actions and very comfortable in
my own skin. And so my legacy would be, I
guess about truly truly being yourself and then that leading

(57:13):
to everything else you know and everybody, So you know
you can't be this this person's taking. I'm like, if
you really like living, you're troop and your I think
everything else kind of comes from that. So that's what
I kind of been on. I've been on some like
I don't know. I'm just happy, I'm me, you know, and
somebody going to always be doing better, but it's going
to be somebody not doing as well as you. So

(57:35):
if you can kind.

Speaker 3 (57:36):
Of find your place, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
That's why I'm with it. I'm not content at all.
Like man, I don't believe in glass ceilings. I still
feel like I can grow, you know, even at my age,
I still feel like I can, you know, tour whatever
it is, you know, move, whatever it is. But I'm
just excited about life. And I think my legacy I
want to leave is about, you know, living in your

(58:01):
truth and being yourself times ten mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (58:06):
For me, I don't think at the end of the day,
you know, I would hope to be a great servant
of God, you know, because when I think about things
like legacy and these words get thrown around, I think
the people determine that ultimately right, and so in that regard,

(58:27):
what I strive to be is a great servant of
the most High, you know, in all capacities and like
let the chips.

Speaker 5 (58:37):
Forward what they may with the rest of it.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
You know what I'm saying, We'll keep doing great work
because that's that's pretty inspiring.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
Too, by the way.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
You yeah, so everybody should see the movie. Anything you
want to tell them about the movie, the soundtrack, anything
before we.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Run a reminder, Red Lay soundtrack drops eight one. It's
the mood board for the actual shortthand right now, can't.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
Wait till this gets picked up and put out so
we can have an elaboration.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
You know, but you know it's gonna happen, Like I
can't well, you know this is gonna happen. It's inevitable.
But right now Red Clay is on a festival run,
so like I can't like put it on YouTube for
you guys yet, Like we're doing festivals and actively actively
believe it or not, trying to get nominated for Oscars
and everything to finding. Yeah, yeah, you know, we're taking

(59:22):
it up, but not like we We already received a
few awards for our director, Christian for best out of
This Out of the Denver series. It was called Series
Fest for series. We took home to awards for Best
Actor and Best Director. So I ain't playing with these folks.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
What was that.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
Me?

Speaker 3 (59:43):
You? Oh, did you call somebody or Siri? It sounds
like she said something about an award. I'm gonna be honest,
I need that award.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
I was saying, we got an award, but we got
we got receive the awards so far, so right now,
that's what it's like on a festival run, so to speak.
So a lot of my friends and even family that
hadn't made it to some of the festivals to see
the film have been asking me how can they see
the film? And all I can say right now is
just be a little bit patient with me. We're gonna

(01:00:14):
go wide soon, but right now, we have to go
through the proper channels so we can get the proper
nominations or even get considered for certain things. So I'm
just trying to.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Go through the process. Yeah, I love that for your
congratulations on my abs to change in real life, everybody
whom