May 17, 2023 • 55 mins
On this episode of IRL, Angie Martinez is joined by Janelle Monae to discuss her quest for joy, learning to trust your gut, and humbly letting go of past versions of yourself. She is leaving perfectionism behind and making art that honors exactly who she is, at this moment, a free-ass mutha fucka.
With a lot of fodder about Janelle’s current behavior and wardrobe choices, Janelle gets to the root of her choices to celebrate her, her body, and her decisions. She’s not into respectability politics and lets you know why.
Janelle is showing up for herself, breaking the chains of respectability politics, and on an empowering journey toward personal liberation.
Tune in and discover the true meaning of freedom with Janelle Monae here on The IRL Podcast - where real-life stories unfold.
Website: https://www.angiemartinez.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/angiemartinez (Follow)
Twitter: https://twitter.com/angiemartinez (Follow)
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/officialangiemartinez (Like)
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
No, I'm owning all of me.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I can show, I can show, I can be in
a suit, I can do all of that. I'm not
into respectability politics.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
I never was Angie Martinez in Real Life podcast? Hidja know? Hi? Angie?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Oh my god, I am finally here. Congratulations because I
met you at the beginning of my career and we
were both moving in different spaces. But you have your
own shit. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, but own in
like a deeper even deep, you know what I mean,
(00:40):
Like it goes even deeper, which is a testament to
I need to interview you your evolution.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
What would you like to talk about today? No, let
me start, and the table's turn. I'm all the way
into that. Okay. Cool. Well, first of all, one of
the reasons I'm so excited about talking to you on
this platform is that you're such an artist artist, right,
You're so you know, you give us fantasy and like
(01:06):
space and like no, you take us on a ride,
which is what we love about you, and that's that's
a beautiful thing to offer as an artist. But when
we're talking about real life and like you're well, you
know what I mean, what's going on inside there? And
how you're navigating. I mean just every day genewm on
a like what are your challenges you? What are your
(01:27):
life mantras? And you know things like that. But I
guess we start. I always ask this question. Everybody on
the show is like, because I think there's nothing really
them today, how like today on a scale of one
to ten, how happy are you today? That scale of
one to ten, I don't know what it started off
(01:50):
on a like four.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
When I woke up, you know what, you would say,
you should be on a team because of life, You've
been given life.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
We wake up, I don't. I don't.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
I have to train my mind to find joy, to
see the joy and find the gratitude in the littlest things.
Because I looked at my schedule and I was like,
oh my god, I'm going.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Going, going, going, going, going, going, going, going, going.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Going, And I'm like, oh, I really I just want to,
like I want to be having this level of crew.
Say I want to be, But you know you're talking
about something you love. So to answer your question, you're
probably like, girl, get to the point I would say,
(02:45):
I'm on a hundred right now, I'm on a hundred,
and let me tell you why, because all we have
is right now. There was a point in time in
my life where I would I would be thinking so
much about the future that it was giving me anxi,
so much about Okay, well what did I do wrong
with the past, that it was keeping me still, you know,
(03:07):
depressed thinking about what could have, should have like you know,
maybe like.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
The pat.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
A couple of years back, me, I'm a new, updated
version of myself.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I heard you say that earlier.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I heard I've loved I've updated my code and everything.
But I'm present, so I'm happy. Yeah, when I'm present,
I'm happy. When I'm engaging with you, I'm happy.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
This is great. Yeah, it's crazy because we always hear
that be in the now, being the president, that's the
key to happiness, and you hear it, but until you
learn to actually exercise it, you don't experience it. But
then when you do, it's like, oh, there's really something.
There's really something to being present, and that's directly being
connected to how happy you are.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
And yeah, you gotta train, Like people think that you
wake up and you you have this free ass motherfucker
energy right right, But I have to it's a muscle.
I have to remember and remind myself that my inner voice,
Like what I think about me is the alpha, is
(04:18):
the omega. It's nothing that another person can tell me
about me that I don't know that. You don't know
me more than I know me.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
You can't.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
You don't define my joy or my happiness. Does that
make sense? Like, it's great when people are complimenting you
and giving you love or criticizing you, which is always
not so great, right, it's not. It don't feel good, right,
But how I think about me, my inner voice is
the loudest voice inside of me, in my head.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
It's the it's the final say. That's it? Although, like,
how does that work? That's it? What do you mean?
Like everything? Like you?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, I believe that we tell ourselves stories all the time,
whether it's to cope, whether it's to be in a delusion,
gonna ask relationship you want to be That's just why
don't we do that?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
We tell ourselves story?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So why wouldn't I tell myself the story of what
I say? Janelle Mona is I'm the author of that?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Okay, what do you say? She is? Like, what is
your thing? You tell yourself?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
She? They them free ask motherfucker? I am not above
making mistakes. I'm not perfect. I have no desire to
be perfect. I'm very talented. I have a lot to offer,
(05:38):
i have a lot to say at my core when
I'm not you know, an ego, Like I'm a beautiful person.
I'm a giving person. I'm a humble I have a
humble spirit. I'm funny. Uh, I'm giving, i am did
(06:04):
I already say that? Probably I'm giving, Like I'm layered,
I'm complex, I'm does ever the little.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Voice, other little negative voices come inside and try to
get in there.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Oh yeah, and I I can be if I'm moving
in a spirit of like insecurity, I'm capable.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
We are all capable.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Of not being the best version of ourselves. You know,
we're all capable of it. And I just had you
just have to know that. You got to check it
every time, like, oh, oh you got oh you got
some ship you need to deal with. Yeah, you got
some stuff you got to talk about to yourself with yourself.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
So you do this often. This is like the thing
you do all do to a certain extent. It's just
what the stories? What stories do we tell ourselves? Right?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Like?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
What do we need? What is our day? Require you
got to tell your something. We were talking about this
a little bit earlier, and I was telling you about
why I was doing this podcast and stuff and saying
that this project is like the first time I'm experimenting.
I would always say, you know, God knows best, I
follow it. I would say those things. I never really
had a full project where I fully submit to letting
(07:23):
it be what it is. And it's a different it's
a different feeling when you do a project or you
do anything that way, when you surrender to like what
it's supposed to be. Like I was telling you this,
if you if you called me downstairs and we're like,
you know what my spirit's telling me. I don't feel
like talking today, and you're just might have been like,
oh my gosh, I just paid for this crew and
(07:44):
is it. But now I kind of be like, Okay,
your spirit's not telling another and it's it's so freeing
to have that. But when I look at you as
an artist, I feel like maybe you operate like that
all the time, like just based on what you present, and.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Like I don't know if that's true, like doing this today, no, no, not.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
That, but you are free. You seem to be free
with your art, free with your I and I would
imagine that part of it.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
No, yeah, you know, listen, I'll be completely honest with you.
I mean, I have guilt about canceling stuff, or not
even canceling, but like postponing to a time where my
energy I have the space for it. Because the truth
of the matter is, there are moments when I get overwhelmed.
(08:31):
Like I know, people see me acting, they see me singing,
writing books, doing all these like telling stories, doing these
amazing things, having these amazing opportunities. But with that comes
like I have to make sure that I'm not I
haven't put too much on my plate. So there are
moments where I have to say no to certain things,
(08:52):
and then I'm like, oh, did I say no to
the wrong thing? Or should I I can do it.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I can do it.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
And then you push yourself and you don't enjoy the
experience because you've decided to at the same time, have
all of your worlds collide. And I felt that before,
and I'm like you, I'm I am just now learning
to like honor my inner gut, my inner voice in
(09:20):
a way that I wasn't. I think that we're in
this business and people say, well, you have to do
it like this, You need to do it like this.
This is how it's done. Go here, go here, go
work work, work, work work. Do never come across like
you don't you're not a hard worker, because you need
to work.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
You need to do. And that's the family I came from.
I grew up my parents work. We brought into it
for many years.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I feel like they did what they needed to do
to provide right, Like I would never ever, you know,
say my mother exemplifying you know, she was a mad before,
a custodian all that, Like she was doing so many
different things to provide for us. And you saw that
and you just were like, work, work, work, right. But
I think at a certain point, yeah, we got to
(10:08):
say how do we redesign a life to where we're
working and we're also making it fun, Like that's what
I'm on. I've had meetings with my team. I'm like, listen,
this has got to be fun. Like where's the DJ
on the set or the photo shoot? But we're doing meetings.
We need in person where the drinks at. Like you
(10:29):
need to be smoking to commune. Okay, go get your weed.
Whatever you need to do. We're running, we're creating our
own worlds, right, so why not make it.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
The one time I refuse?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
So I do I have. I've had to make that choice.
And sometimes people who get it, like you get it,
we get it. We were talking about this out, you know,
outside of of starting, but before by ourselves. We were
just you know, I loved knowing that you were in
the space of creating an environment that works for you now,
not what worked in the past, not what but what
(11:05):
works now?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Right? What are we feeling that only could be honest
if if it's moving, because we're always moving, like we're evolving, pivoting, changing, learning,
And if what you're doing doesn't reflect that, you're not
it's not really fully honest and honest and be fully honest.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
And you're in constant conflict of who you are now
and what you think you're doing and what you may
want to be doing.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Well, you're good. You gotta you could do it talk show?
You know, I said you could host the show. You know.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
You know what, I'm gonna leave that to you. You
you You've been doing some incredible interviews and I love
I love what I've been seeing.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Thank you. I love it too, because I feel like
I learned something from everybody, from every I feel like
there's takeaways in every episode that I remember after that,
or that people I meet that listen take it and
use it. That's like the goal. That's the only thing
I care about in these conversations that we get. We
all get something out of it. That's the point. But
it was fun because you're just talking about that, because
about like having fun. I had. Kelly Clarkson was on
(12:04):
the last episode and she says she started doing this
thing where she she just calls it. She just says,
I'm still working, but I say I'm on vacation this week.
So that even when she goes in do her show,
they go out for drinks after, or she'll stop at
the beach on her way to work, or she finds
ways to make a vacation even though she's working. But
(12:27):
she's living like in vacation mode, which I thought was Kelly,
you were mine. Isn't that good?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I feel like I'm still in that.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Good No, that's a good one. But there's been a
few gems. I'm telling you, I've had. I picked up
a few things along the way. What are we gonna
pick up from you? Today. You know, That's what I mean.
What is your I don't know, especially now, probably always
changes for you. Uh huh, okay, what is the most
recent pivot? Lesson change? What is the thing? Because everybody's
(12:59):
in the little of something, what is the thing that's
like motivated like moving you now? You know it is.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Just speaking like when we were talking about Kelly Clarkson
and redesigning, not being afraid to if I'm holding myself
accountable for my energy for because here's the thing. Once
you experience peace, there's no going back from that, meaning
when you're not operating. I'll just speak for myself. There
(13:33):
was a time in my life where I was extremely
like bent on being like being a perfectionist from the
way that I performed to whatever you saw, Like wait,
it was it not going on in my head, It's
not here, it's trash, it's done. And I would go
(13:57):
back and have these breakdowns because I literally was trying
in my head like I saw something and I was
like if it didn't get to that level, there was
no there was nothing salvageable about it that I wanted
to keep. And I'm realizing that because I've watched other people,
I've watched other people do that, and I'm like, that's
not why I like you because you're perfect. I like
(14:20):
seeing how you got up from that, Like, I want
to know the backstory, the coaching that you had to
give yourself to become the champion that you are. Like,
it's not in the perfection that I moved, it's everything
that went into the moment where you fell down and
(14:41):
you decided to get the fuck back up and you
were and.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
You were honest enough to let let me see you
fall down and you let me see that. Do you
understand how powerful that is?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
That is what the world, in my opinion, I'm not
going to say the world, but those are the conversations
and the things that we need to see. We need
to know the boy behind the scenes of what it
took for you to get there. In that moment when
you when you were not at your best, what were
you telling yourself? Those are the moments that I've been
most impacted by, And those are the moments that I'm
(15:13):
allowing myself to have that I'm surrendering to that I'm
that I am.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
When was one of those moments fail? When was one
of those moments we don't see it but we might
not see it, y'all.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Don't see it. Like they don't always happen on a stage.
They happen privately. They could happen when you're in a meeting.
They can happen when you know, perhaps you had a
running at a photo shoot. There was a photo shoot
that I had where I had to I had to
apologize two years after it for you know, for being
(15:49):
super like closed off, standoff, not trusting because I wanted
to go how I wanted to go, So I built
up a whole wall. I was like, only talk to
my team.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
I don't want to, I don't want to engage because
I was just like overwhelmed. And I also was dealing
with some real anxiety that I didn't know what was happening,
Like I was having I guess anxiety meltdowns, and I
didn't want anybody to see me in that way.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
So I came across as like stand offish.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
But I was dealing with some mental health issues that
I and I'm not gonna say issues, but just challenge
perhaps challenges that I didn't quite understand how to coach
myself through, and an editor that I wanted. There was
a magazine that I wanted to do again, and they
brought that up. They brought it up to my PR team,
(16:43):
and it was tough to hear how they talked about
my behavior. But it wasn't like I wasn't. It wasn't
any it wasn't anything that I said. It was just
how I made them feel. And all I had to do.
I mean, all I could do was be like, that
was a time in my life where I was striving
(17:06):
for perfection. I wanted it to done my way. I
didn't trust them.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
I wasn't. I didn't see them.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I just wanted what I wanted from the situation and
how but you can do that, but you have to
understand how that impacts other people. They're looking at it like, oh,
you don't respect my job, you don't respect who I am.
And they took and I had to just take that.
They were like, you know, you stayed in the room.
You didn't want to communicate with anybody. You didn't want
to talk to my assistant. My assistant cried.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
You made somebody cry. It made me cry.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I started crying because I'm like, oh my god, I
didn't want.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
To make that person. I didn't want to make.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Her feel that at all her experience and she loved me.
Her experience with me where I made her cry because
I was trying to be perfect and I was like, everybody,
get out of the way.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
This is how we get to perfection. Only let me work.
And it didn't. It didn't. It wasn't right, It wasn't
the right energy. I feel all that, and that probably
is what caused some of that anxiety. There is a
thing though about an art artist and that little voice
in your head and having vision and not settling because
these are all things we're told, right, We're told all
(18:23):
those things. So how do you know when to fight
for what that thing is and when to fall back?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Oh, like, you trust your gut, your instinct, and sometimes
it can it'll it'll show up and reveal itself like
this is this is right? We need to be going here.
And that's a lot of what art is about, Like
making art is hard.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Well, I heard the album because I got that early
last night. It was so good. Other way, Brittany was there.
We have some footage of you. I wish you guys
were all there so you could know what I'm talking about.
The vibes I'm talking.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
About where's my phone? Can somebody bring my phone in?
I have a whole notes what do you do? Notes
like that?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
On the have you? But in your last night when
I was at the listening, I was writing. Were you
writing notes? I only wrote like two notes.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
These are things that I've had to write down, like
when I am in my when I forget, Because sometimes
we want to go back to our old versions of ourselves.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I don't know if you know that or not.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
You know no, but please break that down for me
because I know like I want to go back.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I feel like that in my life. I have a
little bit of that happening.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, like you want we want to fall familiar with
how we used to operate.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yes, but when you when you when you've like when.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
You're gone into a new when you've evolved, you got
to really practice what you're preaching, what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
So these are my notes. Wait, I want you to
finish that. What was I saying? What was that you said?
When you're evolving, we we want to Yeah, we want
to go to old version. You know. The bodies like too,
like if your average one hundred and sixty pounds, yeah,
(20:08):
and you lose ten pounds your body. Yeah, it wants
to go back to one's sixty. So it's very hard
to get to a new weight. I know this because
I was dieting my whole life. That's true, not anymore,
but I get it.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
But even my thix season right now like for me,
for me, like I'm in my I love it. I'm
embracing it. But I think we all fluctuate, like when
seasons are changing, I go through like I notice my
energy changing and I go through a more stressful period,
(20:40):
so I eat more. And I was watching the Laura
in London interview You Deal where she says she's like
an emotional eater. So when I'm stressed TwixT, when I'm stressed,
a lot of us we're eating, we're eating.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
We're eating.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
So when it's going into like summer from spring or
like from from winter to spring, I get I wouldn't
say a little depressed. I get like more anxious, I guess,
And so I start eating more and I get more
thick my hitated. It's weather related, I think depression. And
I start eating more a little more comfort and so
(21:14):
my body is going to reflect that. So you might
see a little bit more booty, you see a little
bit more hips a little I got my little pouch.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Stop it I do. I mean, I'm petite, but it
can get thick.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
And I've just I've learned. I'm like, I couldn't fit
them suits anymore. And I was like, oh my god,
what is going on? And I would be dieting or
running or exercising trying to fit into and I'm just like, no, no,
we're here. This is where we are, Like, We're not
(21:46):
about to be utilizing life to try to be an
old version of ourselves, no matter how celebrated that version
of me was.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I'm I'm here. I'm here. That's so good because it's
not just our bodies and physical it's like, yeah, you
get comfortable. A lot of people do that. Let's you
get comfortable at a phase in your life or an
accomplishment that you have, or a time when you were happy, yeah,
or even a relationship you can be in a relationship,
but what we had so many good times? Yeah, but
(22:17):
we had good times in ten years.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Right, Maybe it's maybe you want to stop, you to rethink,
like what is what is what is the new version
of a freedom?
Speaker 1 (22:29):
What does that feel like?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
And that's usually when I feel most free is when
artistically I can honor exactly who I am right now.
I feel most free as a human when I can
honor exactly who I am right now.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
And that's it, And that goes back to being present.
Like you said this, yeah, so you are. You seem
to be very present on this album in terms of
like you just sound free and like you're having fun.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I mean, that's exactly where I man. I just remember,
you're taking me back to even creating the project. So
a lot of the songs you heard was inspired by
experiences that I had because my friends could not find
a venue to have parties.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Every day.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
People shout out to everyday people, it's here in New York.
They go to lay in the Continent Africa, like all
around and it is the most beautiful black and brown
people you have ever seen, every day partying, strangers looking
at each other, smiling, hugging. It goes from four pm
(23:36):
to six in the morning. Seven in the morning. My
friends couldn't find a venue, and I was like, come
to our place, Like, we have a place in la
that has a studio and that is also kind of
indoor outdoor, and it's wonderland. It's the name of it,
and I was like, come here. And it was in
the middle of the pandemic, so we were kind of
having illegal parties, but they were safe because.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
We were testing people.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
And I looked around when I saw everybody coming in,
like the vibe from four pm to six pm felt
one way, you know, like you see people in the sun,
you're looking at the swimming suits, you're in the pool.
Then from six to nine, as the sun is going down,
you're looking at the magenta sky. You're looking at like
the mountains, and you're looking at people and how they're moving.
(24:24):
And then it goes into night. People are sweating, clothes
are coming off like it's it feels like boxed it.
It doesn't feel like that's a hum. Yeah, it's like
the greatest experience on Earth. And I was just like,
oh my god, if I could bottle this up, put
it in like some type of bottle and sprinkle it
(24:45):
around the world, like I would do that. And I
said that I have to musically, I have to capture
what I'm seeing because y'all have got to be here
with me. This is life, This is like why we live,
this is what we fight for, this is what we
fight to protect. And what I would do is it
(25:06):
started with that party. I was like, I want to
make music for these people, these black and brown people
from Ghana to Atlanta, to South Africa, to la to
Jamaica to the Caribbeans, Like I want New York. I
want all of us to have a soundtrack to this lifestyle.
And what I would do is I would make songs
(25:26):
like Monday Tuesday, make the music. And then I'm like,
if these songs can't work at that party, they're not
coming on the album. That I got really intentional because
it mattered. I was like, I want them to be
able to put on my music and play it.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
At every part.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I don't want us always having to go here or
there or whatever state. I'm about to make some music
for us. And so that's how That's how I made
the album.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, that's how I mean. But what is that feeling?
So what are we trying to capture? Like what is the.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
The smiles of like two gorgeous black women looking at
each other that don't know each other. Ah, they may
be from Jamaica or Atlanta or South Africa or whatever,
just like admiring.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Each other from across the room.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
You know, or even that guy that's in the pool
with his drink looking over at you and y'all staring
at each other, the sweat that's dripping off the bodies,
the breasts of us. Like, all I could think about
is Nina Simone being like an artist job is to
reflect the times, and a time was hald all to.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Think about a time was right.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
All I could think about is Maurice White, like I
said last night from Earth, Wind and Fire, saying, if
there ain't no beauty, you got to make some beauty,
have mercy, Like if there ain't no beauty, meaning everything
that's going on in our world, you're never going to
be exempt of problems. Were always gonna have something going
on that is heavy in the middle of all that
(26:58):
make your beauty.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Oh, I love that. I want to ask you about
float season. Come on, ask me, ask me anything did
we do? Let's do another? Cheers? We are here. We
are here, at present and very present, very present. Okay.
So there's a few different areas of float that I'm
interested in. One is the sexuality of it and the
(27:24):
comfort and the sexuality of it. Right, Like, so, how
does that? How does that? You gotta imagine me right
I started. I was doing hip hop radio at a
very young age, and I always was like, I'm gonna
wear baggiest clothes I could ever wear, because I don't
want the guys on the other side of the mic
over there trying to like look at me in any
(27:46):
way except for what the conversation we're having. So I
came into the game on some shying away from sexuality,
you know what I mean. And if I'm being honest,
and I'm almos embarrassed to say this, almost a little
judgmental of people who were overtly sexual because I almost
(28:07):
assumed they were using that as a shortcut to things. Wow,
If I'm being honest, I've evolved a lot since then,
and I learned to almost admire it. Yeah, it went
from like judgmental about it to admiring it, because at
some point it goes from like you shouldn't have to
wear anything to be anything. And everybody operates through sexuality
(28:30):
and being public about sexuality in different ways, and you
navigated however it makes you feel comfortable. But I feel
like this album is you've always been kind of comfortable somewhat.
This is my interpretation. Correct me if I'm wrong. Correct
me if anything is, go ahead. But to me, it
seems you are far more comfortable in the conversation at
(28:54):
least in the music. Is that something you think about?
How much does it play in the art. This is great.
I'm so happy you asked me this question. Really, this
is great.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
No, it's important that we have these discussions about how
we've evolved. And it's also kind of sad in a
sense because when I think about misogyny, when I think
about the patriarchy, when I think about how we as
energies have sort of been like programmed into believing that
(29:31):
just because you dressed this way, you don't deserve this
amount of respect or this is a respectable way of dressing.
I remember, like when I wore my suit, a lot
of people would push those respectability politics on me, and
I hated it.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Hated it. I'm like, you think I wear a suit
because what right?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Because I'm anti because I'm anti somebody who's not that.
The message such has always been about agency, about me
choosing how I want to express myself. Like, it's not
about anything other than that. It's about having the autonomy
to say this is what I think is cool right now?
(30:16):
Like I like how this looks I'm paying homage. I
want to do this, I want to do that, and
it's so interesting, like I don't think I've ever told
this story, but this is, this is but so I remember, Oh,
this was early on in my career and I had
I remember I was just wearing my tuxedos, wearing my suits.
I thought it was cool. I was paying homage to
(30:37):
my working class family. I was, you know, like I
loved and it could have been maybe I was non binary.
Then I was like I was pushing back against gender
norms and I was like trying to find my way
cause I'm growing up. I grew up publicly being famous,
so it's like I don't have Everything is not always
(30:58):
about oh I'm trying to sell this. I'm expressing myself
because I'm growing. It has nothing to do with a
marketing plan, right yeah, thigga, I'm growing. I'm trying to
understand what I like and who I am. And you know, okay,
I like that. I don't like that, Like that's just real.
I remember I went on a red carpet and I
(31:20):
was so excited. I wore this white blazer with black
lapels and I didn't have a shirt on under it.
I didn't have a shirt on under it, so I
only show it showed my cleavage. And so it was
probably like that like if the cameras can roll in,
(31:40):
she's given us permission.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
So I did. I did an outfit where al it
was just like.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
A little bit of cleavage, just this this much good,
just this much, this much showing. And I did a
red carpet and I got an email from somebody you know,
who was a mentor to me that I respected, that
loved me.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Was a man.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
With the photo of me in the tuxedo with my cleavage,
you know, showing like no, no, please, don't do this.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
And I'm like what.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
And I immediately because I was also in a space
of like I also was dealing with rejection abandonment issues,
so I thought, like I did something wrong, They're not
gonna love me anymore. D D.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
I went through that whole thing, and I was like,
what did I do? What did I do? Did I?
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I just I'm wearing something that I like, and they
were just like, you know, if you show this, then
they're not going to take your message. Clearly, they're not
gonna they're not gonna listen to what it is that
you have to say. If I show my cleavage on
the carpet, they're not gonna listen to my messaging. And
I remember going to do an interview after that and
(33:03):
I said that, and it's one of the things I
regret because they were so wrong, Like that was so
wrong of them to make me feel like I can't
express myself or show my cleavage because oh it's gonna over. No,
I'm owning all of me. I'm owning all of me,
(33:24):
and I'm showing up for me. And I think what
you're seeing right now, Angie, is me showing up for
me and me not allowing a man or a mentor
or anybody to tell me that I can't own all
of me. I can be I can show titties, I
can show ass I can be in a suit, I
can be in a swimsuit. I can drink, I can
(33:46):
smoke weed. I can do all of that. I'm not
into respectability politics.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I never was.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And I think when you're taught at an early age,
you know all that person is sagging their pants bringing
the black community down. Like respectability politics is killing us spiritually. Yeah,
it's killing us. Like we don't talk about that enough.
And I think what you see, and I've been doing
it for years is like trying my best to like
(34:20):
dissolve that and and and unlearned all of that. I
think that they I think, even if it's in the
need to protect us, it's not right.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
It's not right. It's not right. I want to go
back to that respectability of politics. But what did you
say to this person? Did you how do you handle that?
I said, you said nothing to this day. Let's call
that person right now, live on.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I know, I know right, I said nothing because I
really thought, you know what.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
It reminded me. But when they see like this or
you're talking about this, will they know it's them if
they see it?
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Yeah, perhaps they will. But here's the thing. It went
back to, like your own goals, saying like you're a
good girl, don't be like them. Yeah, And it's so
divisive and it's so wrong. It's like we're all expressing ourselves.
We live and listen. How I express myself is because
(35:15):
I'm a human, I'm an android, I'm who I am
on earth. The music reflects how I'm living. It's not
the other way around. I'm not gonna make music to
match or make music and then me like, so, let
me try to live like my music. No, It's like,
this is who I am, this is where I'm at.
I have to grow, I have to learn, I have
(35:36):
to you know, own all of me, and all of
that will shine through my music, not the other way around.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
When I send my music sins. That makes sense. But
there is people, and that's why I think it's brave, right,
because when I go back to sexuality, it's like people
are a little obsessed with it.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Yeah, and I wonder why. I wonder if people are
trying to figure out.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Their own often often probably yes, that is the case.
But you know, as an artist and as a public figure,
when you make when you it's like it's going to
be the headline. Yeah, it's going to be the thing
that it's going to be the Yeah, it just is right.
And so does that does that affect how you address it? Share?
(36:28):
You know, because if you want to be free about
your life and you're making music about how you're living,
but then you also have the real world and how
how gross it can be sometimes Yeah, I guess what
you know, what I'm saying, like, how do you navigate?
How do you navigate that do you care?
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Do you These are amazing questions because people don't get it, Like,
I'm thankful that you ask this question. That's part of
the reason why a lot of people don't open up.
I know, people pick one part of who you are.
And thank God, I'm proud to be queer, like I'm
proud to be you know, I've been in polyamorous relationships,
(37:08):
I have been in monogamous relationships, like I honor my journey.
You know what I'm saying, and but speaking about it
sometimes does come with a lot of pressure. It comes
with a lot of pressure to represent. You know, you're
that one, so you need to say the right things
all that. I don't put that pressure myself. I speak
for me. I love though, that people can identify with
(37:30):
what it is that I'm saying and they feel empowered,
they feel seen. That's important. I remember where I was
in my life and I remember loving Lauren Hill. I
felt seen.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
I felt like, ah, I love Lord, this is where
I'm at, you know.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
But now I'm where I'm at here, and I know
that perhaps I might be that to somebody else, right,
But I think that a lot of people are you know,
they might not want that attention, and I never feel
like people should feel pressured. And that's this goes back
to when people say, well, why didn't you come out
(38:06):
about your sexuality. I've seen them say this to people
after years, They're like, well, what took you so long?
And I'm like this, it's like, it's a lot to
be famous and have to talk about that, and then
it becomes that's the only thing folks, you know, want
to say, and people want to I keep saying people,
(38:28):
I'll say myself, I'm a person who wants to be
all of me. Yes i am this, and yes I'm
also this, Yes I'm that, Yes I'm also this, And
I think that that does put some pressure. And if
you're shy, and if you're introverted, or maybe you just
you don't want to maybe you and I feel like
(38:50):
there's nothing wrong with that the part of that part
of your life.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
That this is why I almost am like I didn't
want to bring it up because I'm like, if I'm her,
that's annoying to me. You know, I'm trying to be
in your like if I'm you, and people ask me
about that all the time. I'm annoyed by that. For you.
But and I will ask you the one part of
it that is interesting to me, and we could throw
it away if you're not interested in talking about it.
(39:14):
But I'm fascinated about like because it is Is it?
Like how you say people could relate to you because
of that, maybe somebody feel seen, even somebody who's probably
in it right now, Like, how do you get to
the point where you find comfort in claiming whatever your
whatever your thing is? And I just wonder if there
(39:36):
were challenges for you in getting to that point.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
You know what's scary, Angie, is the laws that they're making.
What do you mean against trans people, Like against the
LGBTQI plus community. They are making laws right now, governors
to stop schools from talking about the anything that mentions
(40:01):
lgbt q I A plus communities, anything that mentions black folks,
black critical race theory, like you can go to jail
in certain states for performing a drag.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Show's insanity, well as.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
On abortion rights, and there's a real it's all connected.
And so when I think about that, I'm like, yeah,
I'm proud, I'm gonna talk about it. I'm gonna make
sure that when it's time to vote, because when you
start messing with people's rights to be who they are.
(40:40):
I will always have a problem with you with that,
and I will always feel like with my platform and
with who who I am, just ask my life, Like
I'm not about to sit back and take that shit.
Like imagine if I wasn't famous, really like imagine if
I wasn't who I was and I was living in
my hometown Kansas. You know, they try to absolutely like
(41:05):
pass you know, anti abortion rights and LGBTQUI plus like
right like they I'm in a Bible Belt, you know, uh,
conservative place.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
I'm not famous. I'm in my house.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
My whole family agrees with these people that you know,
gay people shouldn't have rights and all this shit. Like imagine,
I'm imagining myself as that person, as that younger person
whose you know, whole life is tied to their family
and they're ostracized now because for being them. I don't
(41:43):
know why people think that being gay or being queer
just came out like you're putting you on that new nude,
Like what people being gay, people being queer, people being
trans people being non binary. Maybe there was in language
with it, but history shows us like they've been doing
(42:04):
this this is not we have been who we've been
throughout history, and what makes what makes me say I
can't just sit back and like I don't want to
talk about that. No, No, I'm proud and I'm standing
with my people and we're not gonna allow you to
(42:24):
impede on our human rights.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
What do you say to that little girl, that little
girl who's not famous, who's in that family right this second?
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Man, you have so much family, even outside of your family.
Family to me can be chosen.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Family.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Family is who loves you right now, who loves you
for who you are, Who's not making you live in fear?
You know, who's not making you want to kill yourself
like you have the suicide level? And I don't I'm
not I said, I'm not trying to make Yeah, I
(43:03):
don't want to make this heavy.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
But this is the reality that we're going to.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Be life right because sometimes that little girls cook like
they don't see another way, They don't see that there's
family for you.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
And I'm just here to tell you there's family for you.
I love you.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Come to the concerts if you can, like you will
meet people just like you. That's what I've tried to
do when I wrote Dirty Computer the last project. I
was like, Oh, this is going to be church for
people whose own church won't accept them.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
How did you navigate through that? Like through your family
and the church And look at I mean, you do
it so gracefully and so well, and it seems like
you know, you're like composed and you're artistic and so
it just seems like it comes easy to you. But
I can't imagine. I gotta imagine it hasn't always like
how do you how did you come into that? Let
(43:55):
me tell you.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
I mean as I think about it, you know, like
I'm mentioned earlier, like imagining myself not being famous, not
being who I was, being little Janelle and having to
go through this who And I've had little cousins who've
had to go through and I've had to be their refuge.
They call me, they text me, and I'm like, I
love you, like I know you're I know that your
(44:17):
family is in that space where they're using the Bible
or they're using religion as a as a wit. Just
know that I love you. You are not it's not
a choice. This is who you are. And there are
a lot more people out there like you, and I
just wish now I'm sure like I had to do
(44:39):
that healing too. I'm showing up for little Janelle. You know,
little Janelle couldn't.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Say fuck y'all. Little Janelle couldn't say fuck y'all. What
did you say? What I am? What did little Janelle's say?
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Little Janelle probably was scared or not, probably was scared.
And just you know, you're in this is your community,
you know, like you're like, I don't want I don't
want to be bullied. I don't want to draw attention
and mind you.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Because I think outside of sexuality, even just anyway where
you're anywhere or anywhere where you are deemed to be
something else than your community, immediate community, you're different.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
You're gonna always like people want to people are gonna
test you.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
That's just reality.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
They just I mean, I just remember even as an artist,
you know, people always wanted to test you or or
challenge you, or or or you know, be like why
are you doing this? You know you just want to
be different. You're not really different, and and you just
(45:44):
have to You got to be brave. It takes a
lot of bravery to walk in your truth, even in that.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
What was I gonna say we got lost, we got lost,
you know what, we're gonna get lost? Laws. It's all
about flowing laws, just going with the moment. We float
and flo float, and I keep saying flow. It is
floating day. Let me tell you a float. This is
probably so completely and sometimes you probably make art in it.
(46:15):
People receive it not necessarily how you made it. But
float to me is like what I I don't know
what it brought up for me. It's like just like
that freeness of being in the moment and stuff. And
it made me think of a story and I was like,
maybe i'll share that today. That my grandmother passed right,
she was like this amazing heart where she worked twenty
(46:39):
five years at the hospital, worked a whole life, two
hours on the train, you know, hardworking like you talked
about it. But she was stressed out about everything in life.
Everything would stress her out. If I told I was
coming at three and then changed it to five, ah, why,
Like everything would it would stress her out. I used
to do this to her because she would always be
like this, So I literally with my fingers, my fingers
(47:01):
would try to like unravel her little. She would relax anyway,
So I was at the hospital when she passed, and
her face looked like ten years younger. Oh have you
ever seen somebody pass like the real time, not in
real time? I haven't. I watched her go and I
(47:23):
watched her face go, and I watched the furl smooth
and I saw I was looking at my grandmother like,
oh my god, she looks ten years younger, like in
moments from the time she was alive to the time
she was gone, and it was like she ten years gone.
And in that moment I looked at I was like, Wow,
(47:43):
I want to I want to learn how to do
that while I'm here. Yeah, whatever she just experienced, right, yes, yes,
like whatever she just experienced, I want to do that
while I'm here.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
That's it. That's it, right, I feel that. And I
don't know why I say no more, I see it,
I feel it. I'm into that vision. Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Anyway, when I was listening to the song, it brought
up that memory and that thought for me. Ran. I
know that's not what the song is about, but it
didn't bring up for some reason. It is about that
kind of It is about releasing if nothing else, you
don't say inspired by this conversation is to float, it's
to be free.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
You had to let here. I had to let things go.
I had to let shit go.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
In order to float. What'd you let go?
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Like in the lyrics, I say, I used to let
niggas get to me. I used to be my own enemy.
Now I done have several epiphanies over some breakfast at Tiffany's.
Had to forgive on my freenemies. They're not who they
pretend to be. Ooh, I had to protect all my energy.
I'm feeling much lighter now I float. M hmm, it's
a lot. It's a lot going on right there.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
That's so good.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
I mean, it's kind of like what we talked about earlier.
You know, once you realize like you are the author
of your thoughts and how you think, and you have
to be vigilant about your joy, vigilant about what you
tell yourself, what you feed yourself. Like somebody can go
say something like, oh, I think Janelle Monee is this,
or I think she's this, I think she's this. They
(49:22):
can say all these things, but when you're when you're
dealing with trauma, it can attach to that trauma, right,
and then it's.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
Like, oh, I believe it you're right. I am this person,
I am that I am. Oh I can't do this,
I'm not. But when you have let that go, you've
done the healing, you've done the work, and.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Let me let me be. Mind.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
I don't know who's watching this. Everybody can't have therapy.
I understand that it should be fucking free.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
It should be right. I tried to give therapy on
this one, free therapy when we can, God bless you.
Nobody should have to go through life suffering.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
That breaks my heart when when oh it breaks my
heart that people that everybody.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
So much harder when you don't unravel and shit, that
people can trigger that latch onto that trauma.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
So I had to unravel. I had to go back
to my childhood. I had to realize I had abandonment issues.
I had, you know, rejection issues like when did this happen?
When did this start? And understanding that and knowing it
and being aware, hyper aware of when it brings when
it comes up again. Oh, that's just that, Okay, Oh
(50:38):
that's just that. Oh I know what it is. That's
just that I have a name for it. I understand
that that's linked to something that happened to me. In
the past. This is my moment to correct it. I
can correct it. It's kind of like back to the future.
I get to correct some things that have happened that
(50:58):
show up. And here's the thing you need to know
about energy. For me, it manifests itself in different ways.
So you may think like I've mastered that, Like, ah,
I've gotten through that. It'll come back up and disguise
itself as a friend or an opportunity that you now
(51:19):
have to work through. You now have to navigate that.
But you'll know you'll see it. You'll be like, ah,
this is a next test. It's like a video game.
I really do think that we are in a matrix.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
I think so till I feel that it's.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
A video game and that's it, and you play the game,
then you play it well, and you can also create
your own matrix within this matrix. And what I do
is if I know that I created this matrix, if
I'm believing d this is true, this is true, that's true,
that's true, that's true, I can undo my matrix.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
Give us one. The biggest trick to do that do
you have, like, what's the one thing you do that
works well? If I tell you that that means you
might heal someone that's watching. Yes, and that's what I want.
I want. I want people to be free. Let me
look at my notes. This is the rip. Give me
one of your tools. You can't leave us, you can't
(52:12):
leave us today without normal.
Speaker 2 (52:13):
This is Let me give y'all some gems or these
are things that I work that work for me. All right,
I'm better than this moment.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
It will pass. Oh so good.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Don't be afraid to be a beginner. Yes, you don't
have to have everything fucking figured out all the time.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
You could be a beginner. Be a beginner. It's fine.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
Something you think you haven't figured out, versus when you don't,
you're a conflict. You've sold yourself a dream that's not
a reality. You're a beginner. Own it. If I give
grace to you, I must give grace to myself. It's
nobody else that should get more grace. Then I give
(53:01):
to myself. So that's patient.
Speaker 1 (53:06):
And this is.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Who I have an emotional support coach. That's what I
like to call her. Love that and she's one of
my best friends, Kelly. We came up with this together.
I love myself at and in every evolution, both beneficial
and non beneficial, good, bad or indifferent. I honor myself
(53:29):
for operating in the fullness that I could at that
time and at that space. I am proud of myself
for the bravery to grow. I'm proud of myself for
finding tools and figuring this shit out. I will give
myself grace to figure it out, grace to stumble, grace
(53:50):
to pause.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
I highlight and I cancel. This is my favorite.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
I highlight, and I cancel all contracts and agreements that
don't serve me from my highest good. And I give
myself permission to evolve as often as I need to
in any way that I need to without explanation. I'm
not explaining shit.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
Yes, I'm going to need that. We're gonna post that
as a clip and we're can put the words up
so it just goes in your head. And the lives
we lead, to the lives we.
Speaker 2 (54:27):
Lead, to the dreams we chase, to the dreams we chase,
to the moments that we make, and to the fucked
up ship we can't rate, to.
Speaker 1 (54:34):
The moments we make. We can't rate. Cheers to you,
So you're so proud of you in real life? What
do you want to be remembered for.
Speaker 2 (54:42):
I want to be remembered for a free ass motherfucker.
I didn't let nobody define me. I gave everything I
had and I did the best that I absolutely could. Yeah,
I think you know what, I'm gonna stop.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
Free as motherfuck, free ass motherfuckers, free ass motherfucker the way.
That's how we should just end it. That's it. Yeah,
m
No, I'm owning all of me.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I can show, I can show, I can be in
a suit, I can do all of that. I'm not
into respectability politics.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
I never was Angie Martinez in Real Life podcast? Hidja know? Hi? Angie?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Oh my god, I am finally here. Congratulations because I
met you at the beginning of my career and we
were both moving in different spaces. But you have your
own shit. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, but own in
like a deeper even deep, you know what I mean,
(00:40):
Like it goes even deeper, which is a testament to
I need to interview you your evolution.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
What would you like to talk about today? No, let
me start, and the table's turn. I'm all the way
into that. Okay. Cool. Well, first of all, one of
the reasons I'm so excited about talking to you on
this platform is that you're such an artist artist, right,
You're so you know, you give us fantasy and like
(01:06):
space and like no, you take us on a ride,
which is what we love about you, and that's that's
a beautiful thing to offer as an artist. But when
we're talking about real life and like you're well, you
know what I mean, what's going on inside there? And
how you're navigating. I mean just every day genewm on
a like what are your challenges you? What are your
(01:27):
life mantras? And you know things like that. But I
guess we start. I always ask this question. Everybody on
the show is like, because I think there's nothing really
them today, how like today on a scale of one
to ten, how happy are you today? That scale of
one to ten, I don't know what it started off
(01:50):
on a like four.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
When I woke up, you know what, you would say,
you should be on a team because of life, You've
been given life.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
We wake up, I don't. I don't.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
I have to train my mind to find joy, to
see the joy and find the gratitude in the littlest things.
Because I looked at my schedule and I was like,
oh my god, I'm going.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Going, going, going, going, going, going, going, going, going.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Going, And I'm like, oh, I really I just want to,
like I want to be having this level of crew.
Say I want to be, But you know you're talking
about something you love. So to answer your question, you're
probably like, girl, get to the point I would say,
(02:45):
I'm on a hundred right now, I'm on a hundred,
and let me tell you why, because all we have
is right now. There was a point in time in
my life where I would I would be thinking so
much about the future that it was giving me anxi,
so much about Okay, well what did I do wrong
with the past, that it was keeping me still, you know,
(03:07):
depressed thinking about what could have, should have like you know,
maybe like.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
The pat.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
A couple of years back, me, I'm a new, updated
version of myself.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I heard you say that earlier.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I heard I've loved I've updated my code and everything.
But I'm present, so I'm happy. Yeah, when I'm present,
I'm happy. When I'm engaging with you, I'm happy.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
This is great. Yeah, it's crazy because we always hear
that be in the now, being the president, that's the
key to happiness, and you hear it, but until you
learn to actually exercise it, you don't experience it. But
then when you do, it's like, oh, there's really something.
There's really something to being present, and that's directly being
connected to how happy you are.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
And yeah, you gotta train, Like people think that you
wake up and you you have this free ass motherfucker
energy right right, But I have to it's a muscle.
I have to remember and remind myself that my inner voice,
Like what I think about me is the alpha, is
(04:18):
the omega. It's nothing that another person can tell me
about me that I don't know that. You don't know
me more than I know me.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
You can't.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
You don't define my joy or my happiness. Does that
make sense? Like, it's great when people are complimenting you
and giving you love or criticizing you, which is always
not so great, right, it's not. It don't feel good, right,
But how I think about me, my inner voice is
the loudest voice inside of me, in my head.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
It's the it's the final say. That's it? Although, like,
how does that work? That's it? What do you mean?
Like everything? Like you?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, I believe that we tell ourselves stories all the time,
whether it's to cope, whether it's to be in a delusion,
gonna ask relationship you want to be That's just why
don't we do that?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
We tell ourselves story?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So why wouldn't I tell myself the story of what
I say? Janelle Mona is I'm the author of that?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Okay, what do you say? She is? Like, what is
your thing? You tell yourself?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
She? They them free ask motherfucker? I am not above
making mistakes. I'm not perfect. I have no desire to
be perfect. I'm very talented. I have a lot to offer,
(05:38):
i have a lot to say at my core when
I'm not you know, an ego, Like I'm a beautiful person.
I'm a giving person. I'm a humble I have a
humble spirit. I'm funny. Uh, I'm giving, i am did
(06:04):
I already say that? Probably I'm giving, Like I'm layered,
I'm complex, I'm does ever the little.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Voice, other little negative voices come inside and try to
get in there.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Oh yeah, and I I can be if I'm moving
in a spirit of like insecurity, I'm capable.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
We are all capable.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Of not being the best version of ourselves. You know,
we're all capable of it. And I just had you
just have to know that. You got to check it
every time, like, oh, oh you got oh you got
some ship you need to deal with. Yeah, you got
some stuff you got to talk about to yourself with yourself.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
So you do this often. This is like the thing
you do all do to a certain extent. It's just
what the stories? What stories do we tell ourselves? Right?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Like?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
What do we need? What is our day? Require you
got to tell your something. We were talking about this
a little bit earlier, and I was telling you about
why I was doing this podcast and stuff and saying
that this project is like the first time I'm experimenting.
I would always say, you know, God knows best, I
follow it. I would say those things. I never really
had a full project where I fully submit to letting
(07:23):
it be what it is. And it's a different it's
a different feeling when you do a project or you
do anything that way, when you surrender to like what
it's supposed to be. Like I was telling you this,
if you if you called me downstairs and we're like,
you know what my spirit's telling me. I don't feel
like talking today, and you're just might have been like,
oh my gosh, I just paid for this crew and
(07:44):
is it. But now I kind of be like, Okay,
your spirit's not telling another and it's it's so freeing
to have that. But when I look at you as
an artist, I feel like maybe you operate like that
all the time, like just based on what you present, and.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Like I don't know if that's true, like doing this today, no, no, not.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
That, but you are free. You seem to be free
with your art, free with your I and I would
imagine that part of it.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
No, yeah, you know, listen, I'll be completely honest with you.
I mean, I have guilt about canceling stuff, or not
even canceling, but like postponing to a time where my
energy I have the space for it. Because the truth
of the matter is, there are moments when I get overwhelmed.
(08:31):
Like I know, people see me acting, they see me singing,
writing books, doing all these like telling stories, doing these
amazing things, having these amazing opportunities. But with that comes
like I have to make sure that I'm not I
haven't put too much on my plate. So there are
moments where I have to say no to certain things,
(08:52):
and then I'm like, oh, did I say no to
the wrong thing? Or should I I can do it.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I can do it.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
And then you push yourself and you don't enjoy the
experience because you've decided to at the same time, have
all of your worlds collide. And I felt that before,
and I'm like you, I'm I am just now learning
to like honor my inner gut, my inner voice in
(09:20):
a way that I wasn't. I think that we're in
this business and people say, well, you have to do
it like this, You need to do it like this.
This is how it's done. Go here, go here, go
work work, work, work work. Do never come across like
you don't you're not a hard worker, because you need
to work.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
You need to do. And that's the family I came from.
I grew up my parents work. We brought into it
for many years.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I feel like they did what they needed to do
to provide right, Like I would never ever, you know,
say my mother exemplifying you know, she was a mad before,
a custodian all that, Like she was doing so many
different things to provide for us. And you saw that
and you just were like, work, work, work, right. But
I think at a certain point, yeah, we got to
(10:08):
say how do we redesign a life to where we're
working and we're also making it fun, Like that's what
I'm on. I've had meetings with my team. I'm like, listen,
this has got to be fun. Like where's the DJ
on the set or the photo shoot? But we're doing meetings.
We need in person where the drinks at. Like you
(10:29):
need to be smoking to commune. Okay, go get your weed.
Whatever you need to do. We're running, we're creating our
own worlds, right, so why not make it.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
The one time I refuse?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
So I do I have. I've had to make that choice.
And sometimes people who get it, like you get it,
we get it. We were talking about this out, you know,
outside of of starting, but before by ourselves. We were
just you know, I loved knowing that you were in
the space of creating an environment that works for you now,
not what worked in the past, not what but what
(11:05):
works now?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Right? What are we feeling that only could be honest
if if it's moving, because we're always moving, like we're evolving, pivoting, changing, learning,
And if what you're doing doesn't reflect that, you're not
it's not really fully honest and honest and be fully honest.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
And you're in constant conflict of who you are now
and what you think you're doing and what you may
want to be doing.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Well, you're good. You gotta you could do it talk show?
You know, I said you could host the show. You know.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
You know what, I'm gonna leave that to you. You
you You've been doing some incredible interviews and I love
I love what I've been seeing.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Thank you. I love it too, because I feel like
I learned something from everybody, from every I feel like
there's takeaways in every episode that I remember after that,
or that people I meet that listen take it and
use it. That's like the goal. That's the only thing
I care about in these conversations that we get. We
all get something out of it. That's the point. But
it was fun because you're just talking about that, because
about like having fun. I had. Kelly Clarkson was on
(12:04):
the last episode and she says she started doing this
thing where she she just calls it. She just says,
I'm still working, but I say I'm on vacation this week.
So that even when she goes in do her show,
they go out for drinks after, or she'll stop at
the beach on her way to work, or she finds
ways to make a vacation even though she's working. But
(12:27):
she's living like in vacation mode, which I thought was Kelly,
you were mine. Isn't that good?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I feel like I'm still in that.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Good No, that's a good one. But there's been a
few gems. I'm telling you, I've had. I picked up
a few things along the way. What are we gonna
pick up from you? Today. You know, That's what I mean.
What is your I don't know, especially now, probably always
changes for you. Uh huh, okay, what is the most
recent pivot? Lesson change? What is the thing? Because everybody's
(12:59):
in the little of something, what is the thing that's
like motivated like moving you now? You know it is.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Just speaking like when we were talking about Kelly Clarkson
and redesigning, not being afraid to if I'm holding myself
accountable for my energy for because here's the thing. Once
you experience peace, there's no going back from that, meaning
when you're not operating. I'll just speak for myself. There
(13:33):
was a time in my life where I was extremely
like bent on being like being a perfectionist from the
way that I performed to whatever you saw, Like wait,
it was it not going on in my head, It's
not here, it's trash, it's done. And I would go
(13:57):
back and have these breakdowns because I literally was trying
in my head like I saw something and I was
like if it didn't get to that level, there was
no there was nothing salvageable about it that I wanted
to keep. And I'm realizing that because I've watched other people,
I've watched other people do that, and I'm like, that's
not why I like you because you're perfect. I like
(14:20):
seeing how you got up from that, Like, I want
to know the backstory, the coaching that you had to
give yourself to become the champion that you are. Like,
it's not in the perfection that I moved, it's everything
that went into the moment where you fell down and
(14:41):
you decided to get the fuck back up and you
were and.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
You were honest enough to let let me see you
fall down and you let me see that. Do you
understand how powerful that is?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
That is what the world, in my opinion, I'm not
going to say the world, but those are the conversations
and the things that we need to see. We need
to know the boy behind the scenes of what it
took for you to get there. In that moment when
you when you were not at your best, what were
you telling yourself? Those are the moments that I've been
most impacted by, And those are the moments that I'm
(15:13):
allowing myself to have that I'm surrendering to that I'm
that I am.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
When was one of those moments fail? When was one
of those moments we don't see it but we might
not see it, y'all.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Don't see it. Like they don't always happen on a stage.
They happen privately. They could happen when you're in a meeting.
They can happen when you know, perhaps you had a
running at a photo shoot. There was a photo shoot
that I had where I had to I had to
apologize two years after it for you know, for being
(15:49):
super like closed off, standoff, not trusting because I wanted
to go how I wanted to go, So I built
up a whole wall. I was like, only talk to
my team.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
I don't want to, I don't want to engage because
I was just like overwhelmed. And I also was dealing
with some real anxiety that I didn't know what was happening,
Like I was having I guess anxiety meltdowns, and I
didn't want anybody to see me in that way.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
So I came across as like stand offish.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
But I was dealing with some mental health issues that
I and I'm not gonna say issues, but just challenge
perhaps challenges that I didn't quite understand how to coach
myself through, and an editor that I wanted. There was
a magazine that I wanted to do again, and they
brought that up. They brought it up to my PR team,
(16:43):
and it was tough to hear how they talked about
my behavior. But it wasn't like I wasn't. It wasn't
any it wasn't anything that I said. It was just
how I made them feel. And all I had to do.
I mean, all I could do was be like, that
was a time in my life where I was striving
(17:06):
for perfection. I wanted it to done my way. I
didn't trust them.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
I wasn't. I didn't see them.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I just wanted what I wanted from the situation and
how but you can do that, but you have to
understand how that impacts other people. They're looking at it like, oh,
you don't respect my job, you don't respect who I am.
And they took and I had to just take that.
They were like, you know, you stayed in the room.
You didn't want to communicate with anybody. You didn't want
to talk to my assistant. My assistant cried.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
You made somebody cry. It made me cry.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I started crying because I'm like, oh my god, I
didn't want.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
To make that person. I didn't want to make.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Her feel that at all her experience and she loved me.
Her experience with me where I made her cry because
I was trying to be perfect and I was like, everybody,
get out of the way.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
This is how we get to perfection. Only let me work.
And it didn't. It didn't. It wasn't right, It wasn't
the right energy. I feel all that, and that probably
is what caused some of that anxiety. There is a
thing though about an art artist and that little voice
in your head and having vision and not settling because
these are all things we're told, right, We're told all
(18:23):
those things. So how do you know when to fight
for what that thing is and when to fall back?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Oh, like, you trust your gut, your instinct, and sometimes
it can it'll it'll show up and reveal itself like
this is this is right? We need to be going here.
And that's a lot of what art is about, Like
making art is hard.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Well, I heard the album because I got that early
last night. It was so good. Other way, Brittany was there.
We have some footage of you. I wish you guys
were all there so you could know what I'm talking about.
The vibes I'm talking.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
About where's my phone? Can somebody bring my phone in?
I have a whole notes what do you do? Notes
like that?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
On the have you? But in your last night when
I was at the listening, I was writing. Were you
writing notes? I only wrote like two notes.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
These are things that I've had to write down, like
when I am in my when I forget, Because sometimes
we want to go back to our old versions of ourselves.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I don't know if you know that or not.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
You know no, but please break that down for me
because I know like I want to go back.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I feel like that in my life. I have a
little bit of that happening.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, like you want we want to fall familiar with
how we used to operate.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yes, but when you when you when you've like when.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
You're gone into a new when you've evolved, you got
to really practice what you're preaching, what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
So these are my notes. Wait, I want you to
finish that. What was I saying? What was that you said?
When you're evolving, we we want to Yeah, we want
to go to old version. You know. The bodies like too,
like if your average one hundred and sixty pounds, yeah,
(20:08):
and you lose ten pounds your body. Yeah, it wants
to go back to one's sixty. So it's very hard
to get to a new weight. I know this because
I was dieting my whole life. That's true, not anymore,
but I get it.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
But even my thix season right now like for me,
for me, like I'm in my I love it. I'm
embracing it. But I think we all fluctuate, like when
seasons are changing, I go through like I notice my
energy changing and I go through a more stressful period,
(20:40):
so I eat more. And I was watching the Laura
in London interview You Deal where she says she's like
an emotional eater. So when I'm stressed TwixT, when I'm stressed,
a lot of us we're eating, we're eating.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
We're eating.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
So when it's going into like summer from spring or
like from from winter to spring, I get I wouldn't
say a little depressed. I get like more anxious, I guess,
And so I start eating more and I get more
thick my hitated. It's weather related, I think depression. And
I start eating more a little more comfort and so
(21:14):
my body is going to reflect that. So you might
see a little bit more booty, you see a little
bit more hips a little I got my little pouch.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Stop it I do. I mean, I'm petite, but it
can get thick.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
And I've just I've learned. I'm like, I couldn't fit
them suits anymore. And I was like, oh my god,
what is going on? And I would be dieting or
running or exercising trying to fit into and I'm just like, no, no,
we're here. This is where we are, Like, We're not
(21:46):
about to be utilizing life to try to be an
old version of ourselves, no matter how celebrated that version
of me was.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I'm I'm here. I'm here. That's so good because it's
not just our bodies and physical it's like, yeah, you
get comfortable. A lot of people do that. Let's you
get comfortable at a phase in your life or an
accomplishment that you have, or a time when you were happy, yeah,
or even a relationship you can be in a relationship,
but what we had so many good times? Yeah, but
(22:17):
we had good times in ten years.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Right, Maybe it's maybe you want to stop, you to rethink,
like what is what is what is the new version
of a freedom?
Speaker 1 (22:29):
What does that feel like?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
And that's usually when I feel most free is when
artistically I can honor exactly who I am right now.
I feel most free as a human when I can
honor exactly who I am right now.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
And that's it, And that goes back to being present.
Like you said this, yeah, so you are. You seem
to be very present on this album in terms of
like you just sound free and like you're having fun.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I mean, that's exactly where I man. I just remember,
you're taking me back to even creating the project. So
a lot of the songs you heard was inspired by
experiences that I had because my friends could not find
a venue to have parties.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Every day.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
People shout out to everyday people, it's here in New York.
They go to lay in the Continent Africa, like all
around and it is the most beautiful black and brown
people you have ever seen, every day partying, strangers looking
at each other, smiling, hugging. It goes from four pm
(23:36):
to six in the morning. Seven in the morning. My
friends couldn't find a venue, and I was like, come
to our place, Like, we have a place in la
that has a studio and that is also kind of
indoor outdoor, and it's wonderland. It's the name of it,
and I was like, come here. And it was in
the middle of the pandemic, so we were kind of
having illegal parties, but they were safe because.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
We were testing people.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
And I looked around when I saw everybody coming in,
like the vibe from four pm to six pm felt
one way, you know, like you see people in the sun,
you're looking at the swimming suits, you're in the pool.
Then from six to nine, as the sun is going down,
you're looking at the magenta sky. You're looking at like
the mountains, and you're looking at people and how they're moving.
(24:24):
And then it goes into night. People are sweating, clothes
are coming off like it's it feels like boxed it.
It doesn't feel like that's a hum. Yeah, it's like
the greatest experience on Earth. And I was just like,
oh my god, if I could bottle this up, put
it in like some type of bottle and sprinkle it
(24:45):
around the world, like I would do that. And I
said that I have to musically, I have to capture
what I'm seeing because y'all have got to be here
with me. This is life, This is like why we live,
this is what we fight for, this is what we
fight to protect. And what I would do is it
(25:06):
started with that party. I was like, I want to
make music for these people, these black and brown people
from Ghana to Atlanta, to South Africa, to la to
Jamaica to the Caribbeans, Like I want New York. I
want all of us to have a soundtrack to this lifestyle.
And what I would do is I would make songs
(25:26):
like Monday Tuesday, make the music. And then I'm like,
if these songs can't work at that party, they're not
coming on the album. That I got really intentional because
it mattered. I was like, I want them to be
able to put on my music and play it.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
At every part.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I don't want us always having to go here or
there or whatever state. I'm about to make some music
for us. And so that's how That's how I made
the album.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, that's how I mean. But what is that feeling?
So what are we trying to capture? Like what is the.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
The smiles of like two gorgeous black women looking at
each other that don't know each other. Ah, they may
be from Jamaica or Atlanta or South Africa or whatever,
just like admiring.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Each other from across the room.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
You know, or even that guy that's in the pool
with his drink looking over at you and y'all staring
at each other, the sweat that's dripping off the bodies,
the breasts of us. Like, all I could think about
is Nina Simone being like an artist job is to
reflect the times, and a time was hald all to.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Think about a time was right.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
All I could think about is Maurice White, like I
said last night from Earth, Wind and Fire, saying, if
there ain't no beauty, you got to make some beauty,
have mercy, Like if there ain't no beauty, meaning everything
that's going on in our world, you're never going to
be exempt of problems. Were always gonna have something going
on that is heavy in the middle of all that
(26:58):
make your beauty.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Oh, I love that. I want to ask you about
float season. Come on, ask me, ask me anything did
we do? Let's do another? Cheers? We are here. We
are here, at present and very present, very present. Okay.
So there's a few different areas of float that I'm
interested in. One is the sexuality of it and the
(27:24):
comfort and the sexuality of it. Right, Like, so, how
does that? How does that? You gotta imagine me right
I started. I was doing hip hop radio at a
very young age, and I always was like, I'm gonna
wear baggiest clothes I could ever wear, because I don't
want the guys on the other side of the mic
over there trying to like look at me in any
(27:46):
way except for what the conversation we're having. So I
came into the game on some shying away from sexuality,
you know what I mean. And if I'm being honest,
and I'm almos embarrassed to say this, almost a little
judgmental of people who were overtly sexual because I almost
(28:07):
assumed they were using that as a shortcut to things. Wow,
If I'm being honest, I've evolved a lot since then,
and I learned to almost admire it. Yeah, it went
from like judgmental about it to admiring it, because at
some point it goes from like you shouldn't have to
wear anything to be anything. And everybody operates through sexuality
(28:30):
and being public about sexuality in different ways, and you
navigated however it makes you feel comfortable. But I feel
like this album is you've always been kind of comfortable somewhat.
This is my interpretation. Correct me if I'm wrong. Correct
me if anything is, go ahead. But to me, it
seems you are far more comfortable in the conversation at
(28:54):
least in the music. Is that something you think about?
How much does it play in the art. This is great.
I'm so happy you asked me this question. Really, this
is great.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
No, it's important that we have these discussions about how
we've evolved. And it's also kind of sad in a
sense because when I think about misogyny, when I think
about the patriarchy, when I think about how we as
energies have sort of been like programmed into believing that
(29:31):
just because you dressed this way, you don't deserve this
amount of respect or this is a respectable way of dressing.
I remember, like when I wore my suit, a lot
of people would push those respectability politics on me, and
I hated it.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Hated it. I'm like, you think I wear a suit
because what right?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Because I'm anti because I'm anti somebody who's not that.
The message such has always been about agency, about me
choosing how I want to express myself. Like, it's not
about anything other than that. It's about having the autonomy
to say this is what I think is cool right now?
(30:16):
Like I like how this looks I'm paying homage. I
want to do this, I want to do that, and
it's so interesting, like I don't think I've ever told
this story, but this is, this is but so I remember, Oh,
this was early on in my career and I had
I remember I was just wearing my tuxedos, wearing my suits.
I thought it was cool. I was paying homage to
(30:37):
my working class family. I was, you know, like I
loved and it could have been maybe I was non binary.
Then I was like I was pushing back against gender
norms and I was like trying to find my way
cause I'm growing up. I grew up publicly being famous,
so it's like I don't have Everything is not always
(30:58):
about oh I'm trying to sell this. I'm expressing myself
because I'm growing. It has nothing to do with a
marketing plan, right yeah, thigga, I'm growing. I'm trying to
understand what I like and who I am. And you know, okay,
I like that. I don't like that, Like that's just real.
I remember I went on a red carpet and I
(31:20):
was so excited. I wore this white blazer with black
lapels and I didn't have a shirt on under it.
I didn't have a shirt on under it, so I
only show it showed my cleavage. And so it was
probably like that like if the cameras can roll in,
(31:40):
she's given us permission.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
So I did. I did an outfit where al it
was just like.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
A little bit of cleavage, just this this much good,
just this much, this much showing. And I did a
red carpet and I got an email from somebody you know,
who was a mentor to me that I respected, that
loved me.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Was a man.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
With the photo of me in the tuxedo with my cleavage,
you know, showing like no, no, please, don't do this.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
And I'm like what.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
And I immediately because I was also in a space
of like I also was dealing with rejection abandonment issues,
so I thought, like I did something wrong, They're not
gonna love me anymore. D D.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
I went through that whole thing, and I was like,
what did I do? What did I do? Did I?
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I just I'm wearing something that I like, and they
were just like, you know, if you show this, then
they're not going to take your message. Clearly, they're not
gonna they're not gonna listen to what it is that
you have to say. If I show my cleavage on
the carpet, they're not gonna listen to my messaging. And
I remember going to do an interview after that and
(33:03):
I said that, and it's one of the things I
regret because they were so wrong, Like that was so
wrong of them to make me feel like I can't
express myself or show my cleavage because oh it's gonna over. No,
I'm owning all of me. I'm owning all of me,
(33:24):
and I'm showing up for me. And I think what
you're seeing right now, Angie, is me showing up for
me and me not allowing a man or a mentor
or anybody to tell me that I can't own all
of me. I can be I can show titties, I
can show ass I can be in a suit, I
can be in a swimsuit. I can drink, I can
(33:46):
smoke weed. I can do all of that. I'm not
into respectability politics.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I never was.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And I think when you're taught at an early age,
you know all that person is sagging their pants bringing
the black community down. Like respectability politics is killing us spiritually. Yeah,
it's killing us. Like we don't talk about that enough.
And I think what you see, and I've been doing
it for years is like trying my best to like
(34:20):
dissolve that and and and unlearned all of that. I
think that they I think, even if it's in the
need to protect us, it's not right.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
It's not right. It's not right. I want to go
back to that respectability of politics. But what did you
say to this person? Did you how do you handle that?
I said, you said nothing to this day. Let's call
that person right now, live on.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I know, I know right, I said nothing because I
really thought, you know what.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
It reminded me. But when they see like this or
you're talking about this, will they know it's them if
they see it?
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Yeah, perhaps they will. But here's the thing. It went
back to, like your own goals, saying like you're a
good girl, don't be like them. Yeah, And it's so
divisive and it's so wrong. It's like we're all expressing ourselves.
We live and listen. How I express myself is because
(35:15):
I'm a human, I'm an android, I'm who I am
on earth. The music reflects how I'm living. It's not
the other way around. I'm not gonna make music to
match or make music and then me like, so, let
me try to live like my music. No, It's like,
this is who I am, this is where I'm at.
I have to grow, I have to learn, I have
(35:36):
to you know, own all of me, and all of
that will shine through my music, not the other way around.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
When I send my music sins. That makes sense. But
there is people, and that's why I think it's brave, right,
because when I go back to sexuality, it's like people
are a little obsessed with it.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Yeah, and I wonder why. I wonder if people are
trying to figure out.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Their own often often probably yes, that is the case.
But you know, as an artist and as a public figure,
when you make when you it's like it's going to
be the headline. Yeah, it's going to be the thing
that it's going to be the Yeah, it just is right.
And so does that does that affect how you address it? Share?
(36:28):
You know, because if you want to be free about
your life and you're making music about how you're living,
but then you also have the real world and how
how gross it can be sometimes Yeah, I guess what
you know, what I'm saying, like, how do you navigate?
How do you navigate that do you care?
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Do you These are amazing questions because people don't get it, Like,
I'm thankful that you ask this question. That's part of
the reason why a lot of people don't open up.
I know, people pick one part of who you are.
And thank God, I'm proud to be queer, like I'm
proud to be you know, I've been in polyamorous relationships,
(37:08):
I have been in monogamous relationships, like I honor my journey.
You know what I'm saying, and but speaking about it
sometimes does come with a lot of pressure. It comes
with a lot of pressure to represent. You know, you're
that one, so you need to say the right things
all that. I don't put that pressure myself. I speak
for me. I love though, that people can identify with
(37:30):
what it is that I'm saying and they feel empowered,
they feel seen. That's important. I remember where I was
in my life and I remember loving Lauren Hill. I
felt seen.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
I felt like, ah, I love Lord, this is where
I'm at, you know.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
But now I'm where I'm at here, and I know
that perhaps I might be that to somebody else, right,
But I think that a lot of people are you know,
they might not want that attention, and I never feel
like people should feel pressured. And that's this goes back
to when people say, well, why didn't you come out
(38:06):
about your sexuality. I've seen them say this to people
after years, They're like, well, what took you so long?
And I'm like this, it's like, it's a lot to
be famous and have to talk about that, and then
it becomes that's the only thing folks, you know, want
to say, and people want to I keep saying people,
(38:28):
I'll say myself, I'm a person who wants to be
all of me. Yes i am this, and yes I'm
also this, Yes I'm that, Yes I'm also this, And
I think that that does put some pressure. And if
you're shy, and if you're introverted, or maybe you just
you don't want to maybe you and I feel like
(38:50):
there's nothing wrong with that the part of that part
of your life.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
That this is why I almost am like I didn't
want to bring it up because I'm like, if I'm her,
that's annoying to me. You know, I'm trying to be
in your like if I'm you, and people ask me
about that all the time. I'm annoyed by that. For you.
But and I will ask you the one part of
it that is interesting to me, and we could throw
it away if you're not interested in talking about it.
(39:14):
But I'm fascinated about like because it is Is it?
Like how you say people could relate to you because
of that, maybe somebody feel seen, even somebody who's probably
in it right now, Like, how do you get to
the point where you find comfort in claiming whatever your
whatever your thing is? And I just wonder if there
(39:36):
were challenges for you in getting to that point.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
You know what's scary, Angie, is the laws that they're making.
What do you mean against trans people, Like against the
LGBTQI plus community. They are making laws right now, governors
to stop schools from talking about the anything that mentions
(40:01):
lgbt q I A plus communities, anything that mentions black folks,
black critical race theory, like you can go to jail
in certain states for performing a drag.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Show's insanity, well as.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
On abortion rights, and there's a real it's all connected.
And so when I think about that, I'm like, yeah,
I'm proud, I'm gonna talk about it. I'm gonna make
sure that when it's time to vote, because when you
start messing with people's rights to be who they are.
(40:40):
I will always have a problem with you with that,
and I will always feel like with my platform and
with who who I am, just ask my life, Like
I'm not about to sit back and take that shit.
Like imagine if I wasn't famous, really like imagine if
I wasn't who I was and I was living in
my hometown Kansas. You know, they try to absolutely like
(41:05):
pass you know, anti abortion rights and LGBTQUI plus like
right like they I'm in a Bible Belt, you know, uh,
conservative place.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
I'm not famous. I'm in my house.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
My whole family agrees with these people that you know,
gay people shouldn't have rights and all this shit. Like imagine,
I'm imagining myself as that person, as that younger person
whose you know, whole life is tied to their family
and they're ostracized now because for being them. I don't
(41:43):
know why people think that being gay or being queer
just came out like you're putting you on that new nude,
Like what people being gay, people being queer, people being
trans people being non binary. Maybe there was in language
with it, but history shows us like they've been doing
(42:04):
this this is not we have been who we've been
throughout history, and what makes what makes me say I
can't just sit back and like I don't want to
talk about that. No, No, I'm proud and I'm standing
with my people and we're not gonna allow you to
(42:24):
impede on our human rights.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
What do you say to that little girl, that little
girl who's not famous, who's in that family right this second?
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Man, you have so much family, even outside of your family.
Family to me can be chosen.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Family.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Family is who loves you right now, who loves you
for who you are, Who's not making you live in fear?
You know, who's not making you want to kill yourself
like you have the suicide level? And I don't I'm
not I said, I'm not trying to make Yeah, I
(43:03):
don't want to make this heavy.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
But this is the reality that we're going to.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Be life right because sometimes that little girls cook like
they don't see another way, They don't see that there's
family for you.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
And I'm just here to tell you there's family for you.
I love you.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Come to the concerts if you can, like you will
meet people just like you. That's what I've tried to
do when I wrote Dirty Computer the last project. I
was like, Oh, this is going to be church for
people whose own church won't accept them.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
How did you navigate through that? Like through your family
and the church And look at I mean, you do
it so gracefully and so well, and it seems like
you know, you're like composed and you're artistic and so
it just seems like it comes easy to you. But
I can't imagine. I gotta imagine it hasn't always like
how do you how did you come into that? Let
(43:55):
me tell you.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
I mean as I think about it, you know, like
I'm mentioned earlier, like imagining myself not being famous, not
being who I was, being little Janelle and having to
go through this who And I've had little cousins who've
had to go through and I've had to be their refuge.
They call me, they text me, and I'm like, I
love you, like I know you're I know that your
(44:17):
family is in that space where they're using the Bible
or they're using religion as a as a wit. Just
know that I love you. You are not it's not
a choice. This is who you are. And there are
a lot more people out there like you, and I
just wish now I'm sure like I had to do
(44:39):
that healing too. I'm showing up for little Janelle. You know,
little Janelle couldn't.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Say fuck y'all. Little Janelle couldn't say fuck y'all. What
did you say? What I am? What did little Janelle's say?
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Little Janelle probably was scared or not, probably was scared.
And just you know, you're in this is your community,
you know, like you're like, I don't want I don't
want to be bullied. I don't want to draw attention
and mind you.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Because I think outside of sexuality, even just anyway where
you're anywhere or anywhere where you are deemed to be
something else than your community, immediate community, you're different.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
You're gonna always like people want to people are gonna
test you.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
That's just reality.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
They just I mean, I just remember even as an artist,
you know, people always wanted to test you or or
challenge you, or or or you know, be like why
are you doing this? You know you just want to
be different. You're not really different, and and you just
(45:44):
have to You got to be brave. It takes a
lot of bravery to walk in your truth, even in that.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
What was I gonna say we got lost, we got lost,
you know what, we're gonna get lost? Laws. It's all
about flowing laws, just going with the moment. We float
and flo float, and I keep saying flow. It is
floating day. Let me tell you a float. This is
probably so completely and sometimes you probably make art in it.
(46:15):
People receive it not necessarily how you made it. But
float to me is like what I I don't know
what it brought up for me. It's like just like
that freeness of being in the moment and stuff. And
it made me think of a story and I was like,
maybe i'll share that today. That my grandmother passed right,
she was like this amazing heart where she worked twenty
(46:39):
five years at the hospital, worked a whole life, two
hours on the train, you know, hardworking like you talked
about it. But she was stressed out about everything in life.
Everything would stress her out. If I told I was
coming at three and then changed it to five, ah, why,
Like everything would it would stress her out. I used
to do this to her because she would always be
like this, So I literally with my fingers, my fingers
(47:01):
would try to like unravel her little. She would relax anyway,
So I was at the hospital when she passed, and
her face looked like ten years younger. Oh have you
ever seen somebody pass like the real time, not in
real time? I haven't. I watched her go and I
(47:23):
watched her face go, and I watched the furl smooth
and I saw I was looking at my grandmother like,
oh my god, she looks ten years younger, like in
moments from the time she was alive to the time
she was gone, and it was like she ten years gone.
And in that moment I looked at I was like, Wow,
(47:43):
I want to I want to learn how to do
that while I'm here. Yeah, whatever she just experienced, right, yes, yes,
like whatever she just experienced, I want to do that
while I'm here.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
That's it. That's it, right, I feel that. And I
don't know why I say no more, I see it,
I feel it. I'm into that vision. Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Anyway, when I was listening to the song, it brought
up that memory and that thought for me. Ran. I
know that's not what the song is about, but it
didn't bring up for some reason. It is about that
kind of It is about releasing if nothing else, you
don't say inspired by this conversation is to float, it's
to be free.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
You had to let here. I had to let things go.
I had to let shit go.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
In order to float. What'd you let go?
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Like in the lyrics, I say, I used to let
niggas get to me. I used to be my own enemy.
Now I done have several epiphanies over some breakfast at Tiffany's.
Had to forgive on my freenemies. They're not who they
pretend to be. Ooh, I had to protect all my energy.
I'm feeling much lighter now I float. M hmm, it's
a lot. It's a lot going on right there.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
That's so good.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
I mean, it's kind of like what we talked about earlier.
You know, once you realize like you are the author
of your thoughts and how you think, and you have
to be vigilant about your joy, vigilant about what you
tell yourself, what you feed yourself. Like somebody can go
say something like, oh, I think Janelle Monee is this,
or I think she's this, I think she's this. They
(49:22):
can say all these things, but when you're when you're
dealing with trauma, it can attach to that trauma, right,
and then it's.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
Like, oh, I believe it you're right. I am this person,
I am that I am. Oh I can't do this,
I'm not. But when you have let that go, you've
done the healing, you've done the work, and.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Let me let me be. Mind.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
I don't know who's watching this. Everybody can't have therapy.
I understand that it should be fucking free.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
It should be right. I tried to give therapy on
this one, free therapy when we can, God bless you.
Nobody should have to go through life suffering.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
That breaks my heart when when oh it breaks my
heart that people that everybody.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
So much harder when you don't unravel and shit, that
people can trigger that latch onto that trauma.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
So I had to unravel. I had to go back
to my childhood. I had to realize I had abandonment issues.
I had, you know, rejection issues like when did this happen?
When did this start? And understanding that and knowing it
and being aware, hyper aware of when it brings when
it comes up again. Oh, that's just that, Okay, Oh
(50:38):
that's just that. Oh I know what it is. That's
just that I have a name for it. I understand
that that's linked to something that happened to me. In
the past. This is my moment to correct it. I
can correct it. It's kind of like back to the future.
I get to correct some things that have happened that
(50:58):
show up. And here's the thing you need to know
about energy. For me, it manifests itself in different ways.
So you may think like I've mastered that, Like, ah,
I've gotten through that. It'll come back up and disguise
itself as a friend or an opportunity that you now
(51:19):
have to work through. You now have to navigate that.
But you'll know you'll see it. You'll be like, ah,
this is a next test. It's like a video game.
I really do think that we are in a matrix.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
I think so till I feel that it's.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
A video game and that's it, and you play the game,
then you play it well, and you can also create
your own matrix within this matrix. And what I do
is if I know that I created this matrix, if
I'm believing d this is true, this is true, that's true,
that's true, that's true, I can undo my matrix.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
Give us one. The biggest trick to do that do
you have, like, what's the one thing you do that
works well? If I tell you that that means you
might heal someone that's watching. Yes, and that's what I want.
I want. I want people to be free. Let me
look at my notes. This is the rip. Give me
one of your tools. You can't leave us, you can't
(52:12):
leave us today without normal.
Speaker 2 (52:13):
This is Let me give y'all some gems or these
are things that I work that work for me. All right,
I'm better than this moment.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
It will pass. Oh so good.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Don't be afraid to be a beginner. Yes, you don't
have to have everything fucking figured out all the time.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
You could be a beginner. Be a beginner. It's fine.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
Something you think you haven't figured out, versus when you don't,
you're a conflict. You've sold yourself a dream that's not
a reality. You're a beginner. Own it. If I give
grace to you, I must give grace to myself. It's
nobody else that should get more grace. Then I give
(53:01):
to myself. So that's patient.
Speaker 1 (53:06):
And this is.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Who I have an emotional support coach. That's what I
like to call her. Love that and she's one of
my best friends, Kelly. We came up with this together.
I love myself at and in every evolution, both beneficial
and non beneficial, good, bad or indifferent. I honor myself
(53:29):
for operating in the fullness that I could at that
time and at that space. I am proud of myself
for the bravery to grow. I'm proud of myself for
finding tools and figuring this shit out. I will give
myself grace to figure it out, grace to stumble, grace
(53:50):
to pause.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
I highlight and I cancel. This is my favorite.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
I highlight, and I cancel all contracts and agreements that
don't serve me from my highest good. And I give
myself permission to evolve as often as I need to
in any way that I need to without explanation. I'm
not explaining shit.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
Yes, I'm going to need that. We're gonna post that
as a clip and we're can put the words up
so it just goes in your head. And the lives
we lead, to the lives we.
Speaker 2 (54:27):
Lead, to the dreams we chase, to the dreams we chase,
to the moments that we make, and to the fucked
up ship we can't rate, to.
Speaker 1 (54:34):
The moments we make. We can't rate. Cheers to you,
So you're so proud of you in real life? What
do you want to be remembered for.
Speaker 2 (54:42):
I want to be remembered for a free ass motherfucker.
I didn't let nobody define me. I gave everything I
had and I did the best that I absolutely could. Yeah,
I think you know what, I'm gonna stop.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
Free as motherfuck, free ass motherfuckers, free ass motherfucker the way.
That's how we should just end it. That's it. Yeah,
m
Host
Angie Martinez
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